1 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:06,480 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff Mom Never Told You from how Supports 2 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 1: dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Caroline 3 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:17,119 Speaker 1: and I'm Christian, and today we're talking about the rise 4 00:00:17,200 --> 00:00:20,439 Speaker 1: of products that are meant to help the women prevent 5 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:24,319 Speaker 1: our avoid rape and sexual assault. And so before we 6 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:26,759 Speaker 1: get started, Kristin and I want to offer a trigger 7 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:29,159 Speaker 1: warning for our listeners out there that we will be 8 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:33,239 Speaker 1: talking about these issues of rape and sexual assault, but 9 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:37,280 Speaker 1: we won't be going into them in any in depth manner. 10 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:41,640 Speaker 1: We're mainly looking at things around basically the just the 11 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 1: prevention of rape. Obviously, rape and sexual assault are still 12 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:52,720 Speaker 1: issues that plague not only our society in the US 13 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:55,400 Speaker 1: but around the world, and there have been a lot 14 00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:59,320 Speaker 1: of efforts to combat that. And we should note that 15 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:03,200 Speaker 1: at least a according to the Department of Justice, the 16 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 1: rates of female rape or sexual assault victimizations does seem 17 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 1: to have declined about fifty eight percent from two thousand 18 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:15,760 Speaker 1: and ten, from five victimizations per one thousand women to 19 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:19,040 Speaker 1: two point one per one thousand women. But you also 20 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:21,560 Speaker 1: have to keep in mind issues with reporting. For instance, 21 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 1: like domestic violence, rape is a highly under reported crime 22 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:31,039 Speaker 1: and even still by one estimate, there are an average 23 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:36,919 Speaker 1: two hundred thirty seven thousand, eight hundred sixty eight victims 24 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 1: aged twelve and older of rape and sexual assault each 25 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:44,040 Speaker 1: year in the US, and some say that's even a 26 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:49,240 Speaker 1: low estimate, right, and so focusing on women in particular 27 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:52,040 Speaker 1: because that is who a lot of these rape prevention 28 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:56,840 Speaker 1: products are marketed toward. In two thousand three, the Department 29 00:01:56,840 --> 00:02:00,120 Speaker 1: of Justice said that nine of every ten rape victims 30 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:03,440 Speaker 1: were female. And when you look at statistics from two 31 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:07,600 Speaker 1: thousand five to there are a lot of different aspects 32 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:12,640 Speaker 1: and attributes of sexual assault and what occurs during these assaults, 33 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 1: but overwhelmingly, sexual violence tends to involve an offender who 34 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 1: was a family member, intimate partner, friend, or acquaintance of 35 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 1: the victim. That's actually seventy eight percent of sexual violence. 36 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:28,919 Speaker 1: And that's important to keep in mind because, as we'll 37 00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:31,400 Speaker 1: talk about more, with a lot of these products, it's 38 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 1: more targeted toward combating stranger danger, when in fact, a 39 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 1: lot of times this this violence is being perpetuated by 40 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:44,240 Speaker 1: people that we know. UM, so let's jump right in. UM, 41 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 1: I have a feeling that a lot of stuff I 42 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:50,399 Speaker 1: never told you listeners probably saw headlines about this when 43 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:52,400 Speaker 1: it came out, because it's certainly got a lot of 44 00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 1: media attention. UM. One of the most recent so called 45 00:02:56,520 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 1: rate prevention products UM to come out is a nail 46 00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:07,360 Speaker 1: polish actually that was developed by four male students in 47 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 1: the Materials Science and Engineering department at North Carolina State University, 48 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 1: and they called the snail Polished Undercover Colors and it's 49 00:03:16,919 --> 00:03:23,079 Speaker 1: designed to change color when it makes contact with commendate 50 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:27,960 Speaker 1: rape drugs such as rofinal known as Rufie's, xan X 51 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:31,919 Speaker 1: and g h B. And their reasoning was that these 52 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 1: guys said they all knew someone personally who had been 53 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 1: sexual sexually assaulted and it was their hope to quote 54 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 1: invent technologies that empower women to protect themselves from this 55 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:48,000 Speaker 1: heinous and quietly pervasive crime. And for their efforts, they've 56 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 1: actually won several awards. They were a finalist at the 57 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 1: K fifty Startup showcase where they received one hundred thousand 58 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 1: dollars from an investor, and they won over eleven thousand 59 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 1: dollars from a con tests held by their schools Entrepreneurship 60 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 1: initiative for students from all disciplines to collaborate to develop 61 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:11,840 Speaker 1: solutions for real world challenges, and they specifically wanted to 62 00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:14,760 Speaker 1: develop this as a nail polish because they were trying 63 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:19,160 Speaker 1: to think of something that women tend to use and 64 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:23,440 Speaker 1: wear out commonly, such as nail polished, that they could 65 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:26,839 Speaker 1: kind of use more discreetly than UM. There there have 66 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 1: been other types of products like date rape drug detecting 67 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 1: products such as coasters that will change color and straws 68 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 1: that will change color, but they thought that this was 69 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 1: an even more subtle type of product, which is why 70 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:46,640 Speaker 1: they called it undercover colors UM. But they're also now 71 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 1: in addition to nail polish, for instance, there are lots 72 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 1: of apps being developed in the hopes of thwarting rape 73 00:04:56,960 --> 00:05:01,600 Speaker 1: and sexual assault and violence as well. Yeah, Wired and 74 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 1: NPR did a lot of coverage, as did a ton 75 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:07,400 Speaker 1: of other media outlets about this. In fact, one app 76 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 1: called Circle of six was described by Wired magazine as 77 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:14,720 Speaker 1: a twenty first century rape whistle. It was actually developed 78 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 1: in by Nancy Sportsman, who was raped by a colleague 79 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:24,240 Speaker 1: years ago and so was very passionate about any efforts 80 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:27,920 Speaker 1: to deter from that to help prevent other women from 81 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:30,120 Speaker 1: going through which she went through, and so the app 82 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 1: was released by the Line campaign and it came out 83 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:37,280 Speaker 1: of the Apps Against Abuse Challenge, which is a partnership 84 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:40,359 Speaker 1: between the Office of the Vice President, the Department of 85 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 1: Health and Human Services, and the White House Office Force 86 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 1: Science and Technology Policy. So basically it being an app 87 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:51,840 Speaker 1: that whose goal is to prevent or help avoid sexual 88 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:55,680 Speaker 1: assault and rape. It's part of this huge effort by 89 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:58,200 Speaker 1: people in the government to just say, hey, we have 90 00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:01,000 Speaker 1: an issue, we have a problem, and we need everyone 91 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:03,520 Speaker 1: to help us. We need all hands on deck. Yeah. 92 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 1: And the way Circle of Six works is that users 93 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 1: choose six trusted friends, your circle of six if they 94 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:14,840 Speaker 1: can automatically alert in the event of an emergency, so 95 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:19,960 Speaker 1: they can preprogram their contacts into the app and then 96 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 1: press a button and the Apple automatically text those contacts 97 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:28,360 Speaker 1: and you can decide whether the text will ask for 98 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:32,040 Speaker 1: the someone from the Circle of six to come get them, 99 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:35,680 Speaker 1: to call them to give them advice UM. And it 100 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:41,960 Speaker 1: also connects users to national rape support hotlines UM and 101 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:45,600 Speaker 1: the Circle of six You is a just recently launched 102 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 1: college edition and a Sportsman refers to campuses as pe 103 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:53,880 Speaker 1: tree dishes for sexual assault and speaking of UM, this 104 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:57,680 Speaker 1: partnership between the Circle of Six and the White House. 105 00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:02,640 Speaker 1: The White House is also recently launched a massive, massive 106 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 1: campaign um to target sexual assault on college campuses, and 107 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:11,400 Speaker 1: this is likely an extension of that. Yeah, and there 108 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:14,400 Speaker 1: are a bunch of other apps out there for this 109 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:19,240 Speaker 1: exact purpose, things like Here for You, which provides resources 110 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 1: for victims, Live Safe, which was actually created by a 111 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 1: survivor of the two thousand seven shootings of Virginia Tech, 112 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:29,560 Speaker 1: and it helps students track campus crimes. Uh. Then there's 113 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 1: a one called kite String. Uh. Basically, you provide the 114 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:35,800 Speaker 1: app with emergency contact numbers and then let it know 115 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 1: when you're going out alone and how long it's going 116 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 1: to take you to get there, and after the estimated time, 117 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:43,800 Speaker 1: it texts you to check in, and if you don't respond, 118 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:47,360 Speaker 1: it alerts your emergency contacts. And not to get ahead 119 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 1: of myself, but it's attributes of these apps like that 120 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:53,000 Speaker 1: that people have issues with because, like we said at 121 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:55,600 Speaker 1: the top of the podcast, so much sexual violence is 122 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 1: committed by someone who is known to the victim, and 123 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 1: it's not necessarily going to be a situation where you're 124 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 1: out for a jog, you're running to seven eleven and 125 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:09,920 Speaker 1: you get snatched off the street and so there are 126 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:12,600 Speaker 1: there are issues with some of these apps, but I 127 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 1: think you know it's generally coming from a good place. Yeah. 128 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 1: I mean, there there's one interesting app called good to 129 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 1: Go that's to the numeral too, because that's how the 130 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:25,000 Speaker 1: kids spell things these days. Um. But it's interesting in 131 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 1: its approach of hoping to prevent rape. It's but particularly 132 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:35,760 Speaker 1: date rape situations, by also teaching consent because it's really 133 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:40,200 Speaker 1: designed as a sexual consent app for college kids, although 134 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:42,880 Speaker 1: let's be honest, it's kids younger than college. You need 135 00:08:42,920 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 1: to really start being taught about these kinds of things. Um. 136 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:49,560 Speaker 1: But it requires the user and his or her partner 137 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:55,440 Speaker 1: to answer questions about levels of intoxication and comfort levels 138 00:08:55,840 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 1: with good and sexy, and it's also deliberately time consuming. Um. 139 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:05,200 Speaker 1: But the very fact that that it's tracking levels of 140 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:10,520 Speaker 1: intoxication kind of as slates Amanda has pointed out, might 141 00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:13,320 Speaker 1: also mean that it's not quite so handy because if 142 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:16,439 Speaker 1: you are super duper drunk, you're probably so drunk you 143 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:19,760 Speaker 1: might not really even either remember to use it or 144 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:23,600 Speaker 1: be able to use it. So that's the thing. I mean, 145 00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:26,600 Speaker 1: they're clearly there isn't. I mean, it's hard to say like, 146 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:30,600 Speaker 1: is there a perfect app that could be built? Because 147 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:33,680 Speaker 1: they're all of these kinds of UM, it's not a 148 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:37,199 Speaker 1: simple silver bullet kind of issue, right. I mean, it 149 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 1: makes sense that there is this technological push from all 150 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:42,920 Speaker 1: the way up in the White House to kids in 151 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:45,560 Speaker 1: college making these apps, because that's that's the world we 152 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:48,000 Speaker 1: live in. We live in a world we were where 153 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:51,240 Speaker 1: we are constantly on our phones, were constantly using apps 154 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:54,280 Speaker 1: for things, looking for apps that will make our lives easier. 155 00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:57,080 Speaker 1: So it's it only makes sense that this kind of 156 00:09:57,080 --> 00:10:00,640 Speaker 1: stuff is being developed. But UM, it's also sort of 157 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:05,920 Speaker 1: a matter of what what is actually the best idea here? 158 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 1: What will actually help people the most? Are these things 159 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:13,559 Speaker 1: going to have their targeted effect? Yeah? I mean we 160 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:16,560 Speaker 1: should also note that they are being used. A Circle 161 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:20,040 Speaker 1: of six, for instance, has been downloaded tens of thousands 162 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:25,120 Speaker 1: of times. Here for You was specifically developed through Loyola 163 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:29,720 Speaker 1: University UM for its students, And I mean I would 164 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:34,360 Speaker 1: imagine if I were a college freshman, I would probably 165 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 1: download something like this as well, just to maybe have 166 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:42,599 Speaker 1: some UM resources at my fingertips. UM. But in addition 167 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:46,120 Speaker 1: to these apps, which we will talk about UM in 168 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:49,600 Speaker 1: a little more detail later on. Mail polishing apps are 169 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:54,120 Speaker 1: certainly not the only kinds of rape preventative products that's 170 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:56,960 Speaker 1: in quotes as well, because there are also things that 171 00:10:57,000 --> 00:11:00,240 Speaker 1: have been marketed such as and this is more of 172 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 1: a gag kind of product, Harry Stockings belt buckles. There 173 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:10,000 Speaker 1: are specific condoms called a rapex condom UM, which has 174 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:14,760 Speaker 1: been more developed for use in developing nations. UM, but 175 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 1: it actually has this kind of vagina dentata style where 176 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:22,800 Speaker 1: it has um teeth plastic teeth built in that will 177 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:26,880 Speaker 1: that will hurt your penis you are in there. Then 178 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:31,360 Speaker 1: there's a terrifying tampon. The woman inserts it into her vagina, 179 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:34,080 Speaker 1: but it has a spike on the end, so it's 180 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:37,440 Speaker 1: not it's not preventing sexual assault or rape so much 181 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:43,240 Speaker 1: as it's punishing the rapist. UM different devices that buzz 182 00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:49,160 Speaker 1: something that looks terrifying, both uh in a defensive way 183 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:53,280 Speaker 1: but also um. It looks terrifying to where there have 184 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:59,200 Speaker 1: been developed these armor like injectors and weird electric shock 185 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:02,040 Speaker 1: things it UM. I've seen this on a couple of 186 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:04,440 Speaker 1: different blogs. It looks like, I mean, it's metal and 187 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:08,360 Speaker 1: the woman straps it around herself and I'm not sure 188 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:11,120 Speaker 1: how you would ever disguise it under clothes per se. 189 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 1: But basically, if your attacker gets you naked, this contraption 190 00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:23,400 Speaker 1: tattoos him, like injects him with ink, but also shocks 191 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:28,400 Speaker 1: him very very scary looking. But these are all things basically. 192 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:32,040 Speaker 1: The creator of that said that he listened to sexual 193 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 1: assault survivors who were like, I just want a suit 194 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 1: of armor. And and so it's not that something like 195 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 1: the injector as it's called would work or would necessarily help, 196 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 1: but like so many of these products and apps and 197 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:51,400 Speaker 1: things that we're talking about, it does have the effect 198 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:54,319 Speaker 1: of lending a sense of security, of lending a sense 199 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 1: of I'm doing something. But there's also underwear, right, supposedly 200 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:04,679 Speaker 1: rape preventing underwear. Yeah, this was developed by a startup 201 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:07,439 Speaker 1: called a r Ware, and they launched an indie go 202 00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:11,960 Speaker 1: go campaign and their video went viral not too long ago. 203 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:16,440 Speaker 1: And this is a line of underwear developed by a 204 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:21,240 Speaker 1: group of women. And in their product description they start 205 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:24,280 Speaker 1: off by saying, you know, rape is about as wrong 206 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:26,120 Speaker 1: as it gets, and they go on to talk about 207 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:30,840 Speaker 1: how underwear won't solve the problem of sexual assault, but 208 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:36,720 Speaker 1: it could possibly help women in the sense of giving 209 00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:40,000 Speaker 1: them more of a feeling of security if they go out, 210 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:42,559 Speaker 1: particularly like one example they use a lot is if 211 00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:47,120 Speaker 1: you're going out jogging by yourself at night. Um. And 212 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 1: the goal of it, of this a R ware was 213 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:53,120 Speaker 1: to create an effective barrier layer to allow women to 214 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:57,600 Speaker 1: passively resist an attacker. And I mean this is literally 215 00:13:57,679 --> 00:14:04,680 Speaker 1: underwear that was specifically signed to be impossible to remove, right. 216 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:06,840 Speaker 1: They made it out of cut resistant fabric and it 217 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 1: has this internal skeleton structure to boost the strength of 218 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 1: various elements on the shorts. For instance, they can't be 219 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:17,760 Speaker 1: pulled down once fastened. The thigh straps prevent the leg 220 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:20,720 Speaker 1: openings from being lifted or moved. And of course that 221 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:23,240 Speaker 1: just makes me think of all the times that I 222 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:26,400 Speaker 1: like hold hold it for too long and like need 223 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 1: to run to the bathroom, and I'm like, I've got 224 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:29,960 Speaker 1: a piece so badly, and I just worry about, like 225 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 1: would I be able to get these shorts down off 226 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 1: of myself. That's a good question. Well, And on top 227 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:40,000 Speaker 1: of all these things too, there are more female only 228 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 1: cab services, women only uber like services popping up as well, 229 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:50,040 Speaker 1: so clearly something is going on, and like we said, 230 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:55,480 Speaker 1: a lot of these ideas are coming from very laudable places, 231 00:14:55,520 --> 00:15:00,520 Speaker 1: because obviously sexual assault is still a rampant problem that 232 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 1: needs to be addressed in one way or another. However, 233 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 1: almost any time, or I don't say every time one 234 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:13,720 Speaker 1: of these products comes out, whether it is the nail 235 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:18,200 Speaker 1: polish or it is UM this underwear, which by the way, 236 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:21,480 Speaker 1: it did meet its campaign funding. I think they were 237 00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:25,240 Speaker 1: fully financed and then some to actually make that underwear UM. 238 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 1: But anytime these products come out, people are usually applauding 239 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 1: for a minute, but then people start to ask, well, wait, 240 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:39,280 Speaker 1: is this actually a solution. And we're going to talk 241 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 1: more about that when we come right back from a 242 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:49,800 Speaker 1: quick break and now back to the show. So before 243 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:52,120 Speaker 1: the break, we were giving you quite a rundown of 244 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:57,520 Speaker 1: various rate prevention products, supposedly rate preventing products UM and 245 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 1: Kristen was talking about how a lot if people have 246 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 1: pointed out that yeah, these products are are a good 247 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:07,680 Speaker 1: idea and that we should do whatever we can to 248 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:11,280 Speaker 1: prevent people from being victims of rape and sexual assault, 249 00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:16,040 Speaker 1: what are they actually treating the core issue, which is 250 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:19,600 Speaker 1: rape culture, which is the idea that other people's bodies 251 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:23,800 Speaker 1: are your property to do with what you want. Basically, 252 00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:26,840 Speaker 1: there's a lot of controversy around this kind of stuff. 253 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:30,040 Speaker 1: And in talking about the nail polished, the rape prevention 254 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:35,120 Speaker 1: nail polished specifically, feminist NG points out that date rape 255 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:39,480 Speaker 1: drugs are not used to facilitate sexual assault all that often. 256 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:42,360 Speaker 1: They write that while exact estimates vary, it's safe to 257 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:45,280 Speaker 1: say that plain old alcohol is the substance most commonly 258 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:48,960 Speaker 1: used in drug facilitated rape. Yeah, And a two thousand 259 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:52,480 Speaker 1: seven National Institute for Justice study found that around two 260 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:57,160 Speaker 1: point four percent of female undergrads who had been sexually 261 00:16:57,160 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 1: assaulted suspected that they had been slipped a drug, Whereas 262 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:07,480 Speaker 1: study after study has shown that alcohol, just alcohol, no 263 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:12,240 Speaker 1: roof and all involved, has been involved in fifty of 264 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:15,960 Speaker 1: campus sexual assaults. So that's that's an issue when it 265 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:19,199 Speaker 1: comes to this nail polish in terms of well, how 266 00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:24,920 Speaker 1: a great idea, sure, but how useful and practical is it? Really? 267 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:28,000 Speaker 1: When okay, a you have to figure out how like 268 00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 1: you have to dip your finger into a cocktail and 269 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:34,400 Speaker 1: that might be a little awkward and possibly um gross. 270 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:40,119 Speaker 1: And also even if there is no date rape drug 271 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:42,960 Speaker 1: in there, that's not really, it's not so much the 272 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:48,040 Speaker 1: roof and all that is statistically the problem, right, I mean, 273 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:50,879 Speaker 1: they cite Women's Health dot Gov when talking about just 274 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:53,840 Speaker 1: the issue of using alcohol and sexual assault, rather than 275 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:57,639 Speaker 1: having to add drugs to it. The website says that 276 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:00,600 Speaker 1: any drug that can affect judgment and behavior and put 277 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:04,080 Speaker 1: a person at risk for unwanted or risky sexual activity. 278 00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:08,879 Speaker 1: I mean, alcohol affects your ability to think clearly, it 279 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:11,960 Speaker 1: affects your ability to say no, it affects your ability 280 00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:16,399 Speaker 1: to um, remember what is happening to you, to fight back. 281 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 1: There's all sorts of issues that arise when whether you're 282 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:24,080 Speaker 1: a student or an adult outside of college, it affects 283 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:27,000 Speaker 1: your ability to function. And so clearly in in those 284 00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:31,840 Speaker 1: kinds of instances, um, telling women, well, don't drink. Hey, 285 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:36,000 Speaker 1: guess what, that's not exactly a solution either, because what 286 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:40,600 Speaker 1: is probably a wiser plan is really focusing in on 287 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:45,480 Speaker 1: consensual education and really teaching kids what and I mean kids, 288 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:50,320 Speaker 1: not college kids. I'm talking about kids what uh what 289 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:54,200 Speaker 1: sexual assault really is and all of those quote unquote 290 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:57,520 Speaker 1: gray zones that can come with it. Um, and even 291 00:18:57,560 --> 00:19:01,639 Speaker 1: when it comes to apps and even underwear that is 292 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:05,879 Speaker 1: more intended to help out when you are by yourself, 293 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:10,880 Speaker 1: and like in terms of a stranger danger aspect, again, statistically, 294 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:16,320 Speaker 1: rape is not so likely to happen because of the 295 00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 1: stranger jumping out of the bushes. The bigger problem statistically 296 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:28,280 Speaker 1: is with acquaintances with romantic partners, with family members, with 297 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:33,719 Speaker 1: people that we know raping or assaulting. Right, and so, 298 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:37,000 Speaker 1: what a lot of critics of these products have brought 299 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:40,280 Speaker 1: up is not only the false sense of security that 300 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:43,479 Speaker 1: it is provided and making you think that, oh, well, 301 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:46,399 Speaker 1: I'm safe if someone snatches me off the street as 302 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:50,920 Speaker 1: I'm jogging. There's also the issue of putting the burden 303 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:55,080 Speaker 1: on women alone, or you know, any potential victim of 304 00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:59,720 Speaker 1: sexual assault alone, and that is both a mental burden, 305 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:03,480 Speaker 1: an emotional burden, but also a financial burden. These you know, 306 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:05,639 Speaker 1: a lot of these apps are free, but not all 307 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:08,720 Speaker 1: the products are free. The hairy leg stockings aren't free. Well, 308 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:13,280 Speaker 1: and there was one app it's and that's not free Carolines. 309 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:18,399 Speaker 1: By my last it's definitely not checked. Um well, and 310 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:22,200 Speaker 1: this a listener actually wrote us not too long ago 311 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:25,480 Speaker 1: asking for us to do an episode on victim blaming 312 00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:29,160 Speaker 1: when it comes to rape. And sexual assault, and this 313 00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:33,359 Speaker 1: does tie into it because anytime the focus and the 314 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:38,399 Speaker 1: onus is really put on the victim and quotes to 315 00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:43,040 Speaker 1: protect herself at all costs, then that does feed into 316 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:46,120 Speaker 1: victim blaming down the road, because you could say, all right, 317 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:49,920 Speaker 1: I go out jogging one night and I do get attacked, 318 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:53,760 Speaker 1: and then the question is, well, were you wearing your 319 00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:58,200 Speaker 1: anti rape underwear, Kristen? And if I say no, then 320 00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:01,920 Speaker 1: is it my fault? Right? Yeah? And I mean it's 321 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:04,679 Speaker 1: with a victim blaming culture, it's always going to be 322 00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:06,919 Speaker 1: the victim's fault in some people's minds. Oh, you were 323 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:10,800 Speaker 1: wearing running shorts, that's showing too much skin. Oh but 324 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:14,879 Speaker 1: you weren't wearing the anti rape underwear under your running shorts, 325 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:17,920 Speaker 1: so that's still your faults. You didn't check into your 326 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:20,960 Speaker 1: app Although I will say I like the idea very 327 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:24,399 Speaker 1: much of the of the circle of six kind of 328 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:28,280 Speaker 1: thing of having accountability, of like having a plan of 329 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:32,399 Speaker 1: if something does happen, this is your emergency contact and 330 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:34,919 Speaker 1: there's a simple way to make that happen. But I 331 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:40,040 Speaker 1: do think that responsive, taking personal responsibility and remembering the 332 00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:46,520 Speaker 1: power of accountability is different from painting your nails and 333 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:50,560 Speaker 1: hoping for the best right and Tara Culp, wrestler at 334 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:54,280 Speaker 1: think progress dot org and Saya Chimali, writing at time, 335 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:59,440 Speaker 1: both talked about the fact that this extreme strong focus 336 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:05,080 Speaker 1: on buying products downloading apps really misses the opportunity to 337 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:08,760 Speaker 1: as Chmali writes, addressed the systemic root problem that our 338 00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:14,040 Speaker 1: mainstream culture grows rapists like weeds. And also writing at time, 339 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:19,639 Speaker 1: Megan Gibson in October so just recently was writing a 340 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:23,600 Speaker 1: piece about this very same topic, addressing the issue of 341 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:25,960 Speaker 1: these products putting the onus on women to prevent their 342 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:29,399 Speaker 1: own assaults, and she talks about how for years quote, 343 00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:32,320 Speaker 1: women have been adapting their behavior in order to address 344 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:34,720 Speaker 1: the threat of rape by altering the way they dress 345 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:37,280 Speaker 1: or refusing to walk alone in the dark, and she 346 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:39,520 Speaker 1: says the idea that a special product will provide a 347 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:44,240 Speaker 1: safety net is faulty and dangerous. Well, and Alexander Brodsky, 348 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:47,159 Speaker 1: who's the co director of No You're Nine, which is 349 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:51,200 Speaker 1: a survivor lad group working to address campus sexual assault 350 00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:54,719 Speaker 1: um was talking about all of these rape preventative in quotes, 351 00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:59,080 Speaker 1: apps and products to Think Progress and she was saying 352 00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:01,879 Speaker 1: that a lot of times we do get excited and 353 00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:04,640 Speaker 1: want to go fund for instance, an Indigo go campaign 354 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:11,040 Speaker 1: from a r where because these seem like really simple fixes, 355 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:15,719 Speaker 1: but that also frames the problem as really simple as 356 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:21,080 Speaker 1: well that could possibly be solved by say, nail polish 357 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:24,359 Speaker 1: for instance. But she says that I really wish that 358 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:28,320 Speaker 1: people were funneling all this ingenuity and funding and interest, 359 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:31,879 Speaker 1: all of which are great things, into new ways to 360 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:38,159 Speaker 1: stop people from perpetrating violence, as opposed again into funneling 361 00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:42,680 Speaker 1: all of that ingenuity, funding and interest into giving more 362 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:46,879 Speaker 1: women options for just how like all of the things 363 00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:51,879 Speaker 1: that you could possibly have to um deflect your own rape, 364 00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:57,760 Speaker 1: which I mean, that's not that's not really how it goes, Yeah, 365 00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:00,600 Speaker 1: I mean. Brodsky goes on to point out that these 366 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:03,000 Speaker 1: well meaning people, these people who were working their hard 367 00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:05,560 Speaker 1: is to create apps and other products to help women 368 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:10,240 Speaker 1: and men avoid sexual assault, might actually end up perpetuating 369 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:14,040 Speaker 1: this about sexual violence, because she says, basically, is this 370 00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:18,560 Speaker 1: app um helping a real student in the real world 371 00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:22,560 Speaker 1: avoid the threat of sexual assault as it typically occurs, 372 00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:27,280 Speaker 1: or is it preventing some sort of quote archetypal rape 373 00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:30,360 Speaker 1: rape victim from a movie script? Right? I mean. And 374 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:34,639 Speaker 1: the thing is, especially with those four guys from NC 375 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:37,600 Speaker 1: State who developed the nail polish, I feel like they 376 00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:39,560 Speaker 1: did kind of get raked over the coals a little 377 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:43,560 Speaker 1: bit in the media um for their product, maybe because 378 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:46,720 Speaker 1: it received so much attention, and then there were a 379 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:49,000 Speaker 1: lot of people raising their hands saying, ah, this might 380 00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:54,280 Speaker 1: actually not be as amazing and innovative of a problem 381 00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:58,320 Speaker 1: solver as we might think. UM. And again though it's 382 00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:00,560 Speaker 1: it's like Broadsky is saying, like it's mean, you know, 383 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:03,320 Speaker 1: from a good place. I don't doubt that they genuinely 384 00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:06,760 Speaker 1: wanted to come up with some kind of tech disruptive 385 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:11,199 Speaker 1: thing that would help them this problem. But it's just 386 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:15,400 Speaker 1: indicative of how we are. We have a long way 387 00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:17,359 Speaker 1: to go in terms of how we even approach it 388 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:20,440 Speaker 1: to begin with. UM. But then too, when it comes 389 00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:26,800 Speaker 1: to these products and services, there has been some increasing 390 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:30,800 Speaker 1: attention on well, what about the fact that these are 391 00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:37,200 Speaker 1: profits some of these at least are profit making products. Yeah. 392 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:40,959 Speaker 1: Inside higher Ed looked at this back in August and 393 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:44,920 Speaker 1: said that a cottage industry is growing around campus sexual assault, 394 00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:48,280 Speaker 1: and Okay, we will get more into this, but I 395 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:51,880 Speaker 1: do want to point out that you know, sidebar. It 396 00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:56,199 Speaker 1: is good that amid the rise of these apps and 397 00:25:56,240 --> 00:26:00,159 Speaker 1: these products that clearly a conversation is happening regard us 398 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:03,840 Speaker 1: of what the product is, what it's supposed to do. Obviously, 399 00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:07,719 Speaker 1: sexual assault in general and campus sexual assault in particular 400 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:11,520 Speaker 1: are major problems, and so it is good when we 401 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:14,359 Speaker 1: can have a conversation about, hey, what can we do 402 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:17,640 Speaker 1: to prevent it. It's good that people are joining together 403 00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:21,080 Speaker 1: across all sorts of industries to say, let's let's find 404 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:26,040 Speaker 1: a solution. But that has led people to question what 405 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:29,280 Speaker 1: is up with the whole money making scheme involved in 406 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:31,760 Speaker 1: some of them. And it's not so much these kinds 407 00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:34,720 Speaker 1: of products that we've been talking about UM that have 408 00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:39,240 Speaker 1: come under more scrutiny, but more companies and firms that 409 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:44,320 Speaker 1: specialize in sexual assault prevention programs that say colleges would 410 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:47,240 Speaker 1: bring onto their campuses to perhaps implement and too freshman 411 00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:52,760 Speaker 1: orientations and curriculums that uh Dana Boulger at LEAs, who's 412 00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:56,480 Speaker 1: another co founder of No Your Nine UM, told Inside 413 00:26:56,600 --> 00:27:00,760 Speaker 1: Higher Ed that they, you know, some some people need 414 00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:07,120 Speaker 1: to definitely do some research before they pay for their 415 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:11,720 Speaker 1: often expensive services, because not all of them are created equally, right, 416 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:15,239 Speaker 1: Because basically a lot of this was spurred following the 417 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:19,879 Speaker 1: release of the Education Department's Dear Colleague letter in twleven. 418 00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:23,200 Speaker 1: This is Dana Buld you're talking about this too. Um. 419 00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:26,639 Speaker 1: The letter basically was the government's called action about sexual 420 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:30,239 Speaker 1: assault and telling schools that they needed to step up 421 00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:33,840 Speaker 1: their efforts. And all of a sudden, schools are like, oh, 422 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:36,199 Speaker 1: this is something that we need to take responsibility for 423 00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:38,160 Speaker 1: and tackle, but how do we do it? And so 424 00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:43,600 Speaker 1: enter from stage right, a lot of companies, a lot 425 00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:47,120 Speaker 1: of consultants who make their money off of telling schools 426 00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:52,480 Speaker 1: and universities how to supposedly keep students safe. But then 427 00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:56,679 Speaker 1: you have to wonder is that eliminating? Is that just 428 00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:59,520 Speaker 1: taking a liability off of the school. That's another question 429 00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:02,879 Speaker 1: that people of our universities actively trying to keep their 430 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:05,800 Speaker 1: students safe by bringing in these consultants who charge of 431 00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 1: fee or are they just trying to cover their own butts? Right? 432 00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:13,840 Speaker 1: And um, they're also too when it comes to the 433 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:17,760 Speaker 1: money and when we're talking more about the actual products. Um. 434 00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:24,240 Speaker 1: The primary problems seen with business models being built around 435 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:28,480 Speaker 1: this sexual assault cottage industry, which is just like such 436 00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:32,160 Speaker 1: an intense phrase to even consider. Um. It's the fact 437 00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:36,320 Speaker 1: that that could make it obviously um accessible to some, 438 00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:40,160 Speaker 1: but not accessible to everyone. And this is actually something 439 00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:43,800 Speaker 1: that Nancy Schwartzman, the creator of Circle of Six, has 440 00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:47,360 Speaker 1: publicly talked about having issues with. And she said when 441 00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:50,160 Speaker 1: it comes to her company that she started up but 442 00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:53,160 Speaker 1: which is still pretty small, um, she says, we've never 443 00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:58,320 Speaker 1: been in it for the money, which I absolutely believe 444 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:03,800 Speaker 1: because she built the technology based off her own experience too. Yeah, 445 00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:06,400 Speaker 1: and this whole this, all of these issues together are 446 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:11,400 Speaker 1: creating a really weird intersection at which people who should 447 00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:14,640 Speaker 1: be partnering together and fighting for the same thing end 448 00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:19,320 Speaker 1: up at odds because a lot of critics of critics 449 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:22,480 Speaker 1: like we're getting super there's an onion that we're peeling 450 00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:27,040 Speaker 1: the layers back. A lot of people are saying, hey, feminists, 451 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:32,520 Speaker 1: you need to stop complaining about these rape products because um, 452 00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:35,640 Speaker 1: they're helping people, and they're meant to help people, And 453 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:38,880 Speaker 1: we can't take on all of rape culture all at once, 454 00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:41,920 Speaker 1: so let's start from you know, the top, and work 455 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:45,120 Speaker 1: our way down. Even Rain got in on this conversation, 456 00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:48,880 Speaker 1: and Rain is of course the rape and Incest National Network. UM, 457 00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:52,200 Speaker 1: they just want to get the ball rolling. President Scott 458 00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:55,840 Speaker 1: Berkowitz and VP for Public Policy Rebecca O'Connor worked on 459 00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:59,760 Speaker 1: this big report in which they said, quote in the 460 00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:02,240 Speaker 1: la last few years, there has been an unfortunate trend 461 00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:06,000 Speaker 1: towards blaming rape culture for the extensive problem of sexual 462 00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:09,080 Speaker 1: violence on campuses. While it is helpful to point out 463 00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:12,560 Speaker 1: the systemic barriers to addressing the problem, is important to 464 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:16,120 Speaker 1: not lose sight of a simple fact. Rape is caused 465 00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:18,840 Speaker 1: not by cultural factors, but by the conscious decisions of 466 00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:22,680 Speaker 1: a small percentage of the community to commit a violent crime, 467 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:27,719 Speaker 1: which is I was surprised to read that well. And 468 00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:33,760 Speaker 1: that statement too was used by far more conservative and 469 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:39,840 Speaker 1: not so feminist friendly commentators and organizations to say, see, 470 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,160 Speaker 1: rape culture doesn't doesn't exist, it doesn't exist at all. 471 00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:46,920 Speaker 1: And UM, I don't think that Burgos was trying to 472 00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:49,960 Speaker 1: say that it doesn't exists. And and the when it 473 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,800 Speaker 1: comes to that small percentage of the community, the statistic 474 00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:56,120 Speaker 1: that they're likely referring to is, UM. You know, I'm 475 00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:58,840 Speaker 1: not entirely sure where this is coming from. UM, but 476 00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:04,160 Speaker 1: the statists is that college campus rapes are committed by 477 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:07,680 Speaker 1: three percent of the male students. So it's like the 478 00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:10,760 Speaker 1: like what we talked about in our fraternities episode of 479 00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:15,720 Speaker 1: the one rotten Apple ruining the whole barrel um. But 480 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:20,880 Speaker 1: in that moment when rape occurs, No, it is not 481 00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:27,800 Speaker 1: culture that is committing that crime. However, it's certainly perpetuates it. 482 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:30,760 Speaker 1: So I mean again, though, this all, all of this 483 00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:33,200 Speaker 1: goes back to to the fact that there is no 484 00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:37,400 Speaker 1: simple solution because it isn't such a simple problem, and 485 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:39,960 Speaker 1: that also raises a challenge to you of well, how 486 00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:42,360 Speaker 1: do we attack this in a way that it's not 487 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:45,520 Speaker 1: so overwhelming that we just throw up our hands and 488 00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:50,640 Speaker 1: just walk away from it, but also don't oversimplify it. 489 00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:54,760 Speaker 1: And I mean, in in my most hopeful stance, I 490 00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:57,880 Speaker 1: think that while there's so much back and forth going on, 491 00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:00,080 Speaker 1: but I'm just hoping that we are on the have 492 00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:04,440 Speaker 1: to at least figuring that out more, because at least 493 00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:07,480 Speaker 1: we're talking about it more. Yeah, and the more you 494 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:10,400 Speaker 1: talk about it, the more people ask questions and and 495 00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:15,200 Speaker 1: the more like women and men come forward. Right. Yeah, Well, 496 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:18,720 Speaker 1: so there are efforts out there that are sort of 497 00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:23,320 Speaker 1: diverging from the path of the hairy stockings efforts to 498 00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:26,520 Speaker 1: prevent sexual assault, and that's really an effort to sort 499 00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:29,920 Speaker 1: of go to the survivors, go to the people who 500 00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:34,200 Speaker 1: either work with survivors or have survived sexual assault themselves, 501 00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:38,320 Speaker 1: to sort of see what in what ways they would 502 00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:42,960 Speaker 1: be best served. And so you have UM Innovate Against Rape, 503 00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:47,040 Speaker 1: which is part of Carnegie Mellon Universities Integrated Innovation Institute. 504 00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:49,800 Speaker 1: It encourages people to come up with creative solutions to 505 00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:53,920 Speaker 1: social problems and they actually recently created two apps that 506 00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:57,320 Speaker 1: get by standards to help. They're called night Owl and 507 00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:00,080 Speaker 1: Spot a Problem, and they were developed after students it 508 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:03,720 Speaker 1: a ton of research into campus sexual assaults, and the 509 00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:06,560 Speaker 1: whole goal is that they're supposed to be more empowering 510 00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:10,520 Speaker 1: and protect privacy. I think you can. It helps people 511 00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:15,680 Speaker 1: report assaults anonymously because this whole issue of maybe the 512 00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:21,040 Speaker 1: person who's being attacked or assaulted is not capable of 513 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:25,680 Speaker 1: alerting police, alerting friends, maybe they're maybe they have blacked out, 514 00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:28,360 Speaker 1: maybe they have been drugged, maybe they just are incapable 515 00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:31,240 Speaker 1: of taking that type of action at that moment. But 516 00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:33,400 Speaker 1: when you put the power in the hands of by 517 00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:36,760 Speaker 1: standards at the party or wherever, they are, then perhaps 518 00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:39,760 Speaker 1: there could be more success in reporting certain crimes. And 519 00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:42,920 Speaker 1: there's also a software that's been talked about a lot 520 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:48,200 Speaker 1: called Callisto, and it's in the development process, um. And 521 00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:51,959 Speaker 1: what's interesting about it is that it's being made with 522 00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:58,040 Speaker 1: input from sexual assault survivors. So it's also seeking to 523 00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:02,760 Speaker 1: help students by allowing them to file a report online anonymously, 524 00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:06,440 Speaker 1: and they can also save it to submit later. They 525 00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:10,280 Speaker 1: can also have it automatically submit when someone else files 526 00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:14,040 Speaker 1: a report about the same attacker. So, I mean, it 527 00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:18,880 Speaker 1: is really fascinating to see how technology is starting to 528 00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:24,000 Speaker 1: wind its way into this issue. And I really like 529 00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:30,000 Speaker 1: the idea of getting the actual students and survivors involved 530 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,880 Speaker 1: in the same way as you have a Nancy Schwartzman 531 00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:36,440 Speaker 1: developing circle of six. I think there's something really powerful 532 00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:39,600 Speaker 1: about that. Not that you can't have male allies like 533 00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:42,800 Speaker 1: the guys that NC State working on things as well, 534 00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:46,920 Speaker 1: but um, I think it is important to actually talk 535 00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:50,480 Speaker 1: to and get the input of, you know, the people 536 00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:55,000 Speaker 1: whose safety is perhaps most immediately at stake, especially when 537 00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:59,319 Speaker 1: we're talking about campus assault. Yeah. Absolutely, And so I 538 00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:02,120 Speaker 1: guess I want to know from our listeners whether they 539 00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:05,239 Speaker 1: have a used any of these products or downloaded any 540 00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:08,239 Speaker 1: of these apps, and be whether you have or not, 541 00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:11,680 Speaker 1: do you think they will have any sort of positive effect? 542 00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:17,160 Speaker 1: Right because obviously, up until now, there has never been 543 00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:23,440 Speaker 1: a product or an item of clothing, or a hairstyle 544 00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:27,239 Speaker 1: or anything that women have been able to affix to 545 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:30,840 Speaker 1: their bodies, whether it's a rape whistle or whatever it 546 00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:34,400 Speaker 1: might be, that has effectively prevented rape. Because if that 547 00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:37,120 Speaker 1: were the case, we would probably all have them, and 548 00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:40,120 Speaker 1: what a world it would be. UM. So that's the 549 00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:44,480 Speaker 1: big question of you know, is how how can this 550 00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:49,560 Speaker 1: play a positive and effective role into these really important 551 00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:55,280 Speaker 1: conversations that are happening right now about um sexual assault, 552 00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:59,680 Speaker 1: which again I beat the drum very much about this 553 00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:03,000 Speaker 1: is so much focus on college, but good god, it 554 00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:05,680 Speaker 1: needs to start before college. Yeah. I feel like by 555 00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:09,360 Speaker 1: the time if you're talking to kids about consent once 556 00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:12,560 Speaker 1: they get to college, it's almost too late. Yeah. I mean, 557 00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:15,239 Speaker 1: in terms of this type of stuff, the earlier that 558 00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:18,239 Speaker 1: type of education starts the better, especially if it's being 559 00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:21,360 Speaker 1: reinforced by your own parents. I mean, we could go 560 00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:25,239 Speaker 1: on and on about sex positive attitudes in the home, 561 00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:28,680 Speaker 1: the way that your parents express affection for each other 562 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:31,680 Speaker 1: and for you, and the way that it's communicated that 563 00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:34,480 Speaker 1: consent is important and what consent is, and that you 564 00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:36,600 Speaker 1: shouldn't be ashamed of your body and you shouldn't let 565 00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:39,080 Speaker 1: other people have a say over your body. These are 566 00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:41,239 Speaker 1: all issues that I mean, christ and I could talk 567 00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:43,600 Speaker 1: for hours on. But yeah, it's that type of education 568 00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:46,560 Speaker 1: that starts and needs to start when kids are young 569 00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:50,200 Speaker 1: and in the home, and not when they're eighteen nineteen 570 00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:52,680 Speaker 1: and have no inhibitions because they're away from home for 571 00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:56,040 Speaker 1: the first time, right Because no, it seems like no 572 00:36:56,160 --> 00:37:00,960 Speaker 1: product could possibly make up for all of that. So 573 00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:03,680 Speaker 1: we really want to hear your thoughts on this, and 574 00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:08,160 Speaker 1: especially if there's anyone listening who might be working on 575 00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:11,640 Speaker 1: an app or be part of an organization that has 576 00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:13,520 Speaker 1: a hand in any of this stuff. We would really 577 00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:16,400 Speaker 1: love to hear from you. Mom Stuff at house stuff 578 00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:19,000 Speaker 1: Works dot Com is our email address. You can also 579 00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:22,920 Speaker 1: tweet us at mom Stuff podcast and messages on Facebook, 580 00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:25,160 Speaker 1: and we've got a couple of messages to share with 581 00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:32,319 Speaker 1: you right now. So I've got a Facebook message here 582 00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:36,680 Speaker 1: from Vivian and it's in response to our episode a 583 00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:40,880 Speaker 1: while back on women's wanderlust and women traveling, and it 584 00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:44,840 Speaker 1: does tie into this conversation we were just having about 585 00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:50,840 Speaker 1: sexual assault and mention of rape culture. She writes in 586 00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:53,840 Speaker 1: terms of she was she was initially writing about UM 587 00:37:53,920 --> 00:38:00,560 Speaker 1: the differences between traveler versus tourists UM, and at one 588 00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:02,920 Speaker 1: point she says, I think the question you brought up 589 00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:06,680 Speaker 1: about fighting rape culture style warnings in terms of women 590 00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:10,520 Speaker 1: traveling alone versus accepting local gender norms and wearing that 591 00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:15,080 Speaker 1: fake wedding ring is extremely important. I leaned toward accepting 592 00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:18,680 Speaker 1: local gender norms because one, we do need to respect others, 593 00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:22,719 Speaker 1: especially as temporary visitors and guests, and two we need 594 00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:26,120 Speaker 1: to be safe, regardless of how overblown warnings about violence 595 00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:29,840 Speaker 1: toward traveling women. Maybe I recently spent three months in 596 00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:33,400 Speaker 1: Beijing and met the older male boss of a friend 597 00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:35,879 Speaker 1: in quotes, who showed me a photo of his wife 598 00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:38,360 Speaker 1: and understood that I had a boyfriend, and still he 599 00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:43,080 Speaker 1: treated me inappropriately. Feminism is incredibly important for advancing women's 600 00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:46,279 Speaker 1: rights and freedoms, and when traveling and being guests in 601 00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:49,320 Speaker 1: a different country, we should also learn about that country 602 00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:52,360 Speaker 1: and its social and gender norms and understand how we 603 00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:56,000 Speaker 1: as women and foreigners, perhaps of different skin colors, appear 604 00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:59,920 Speaker 1: in that society. Thanks for talking about such an important topic. 605 00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:02,160 Speaker 1: You guys do a great job covering so many issues, 606 00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:04,799 Speaker 1: and I hope my input helps contribute to the conversation 607 00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:09,480 Speaker 1: on women and travel. So thanks Vivian. Okay, well, I 608 00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:12,160 Speaker 1: have a letter here from Brian in response to our 609 00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:15,279 Speaker 1: costplay episode. And you know, in that episode we talked 610 00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:19,080 Speaker 1: a lot about UM, both the positives of it, but 611 00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:23,000 Speaker 1: also the potential negatives of slut shaming, of body shaming, 612 00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:26,600 Speaker 1: and so Brian has his own story to share UM. 613 00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:28,279 Speaker 1: He said, I would just like to let you know 614 00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:30,920 Speaker 1: of an experience I had. I was dressed in a 615 00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:34,400 Speaker 1: Jedi outfit for an event being held near Halloween. I 616 00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:36,799 Speaker 1: will admit that I'm a bit overweight, not too bad, 617 00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:40,200 Speaker 1: but sure not Hollywood fit either. Anyway, the main reason 618 00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:42,080 Speaker 1: I was at the event was to help entertain the 619 00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:44,360 Speaker 1: families waiting in what was sometimes an hour and a 620 00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:46,840 Speaker 1: half weight line. At one point during the night, I 621 00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:49,359 Speaker 1: remember hearing one father lean over and tell his son, 622 00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:52,880 Speaker 1: look at how fat obi Wan has gotten. I still 623 00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:55,880 Speaker 1: think about that comment every time I put the costume on. Nowadays, 624 00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:58,040 Speaker 1: I wanted to turn and say something the man, but 625 00:39:58,080 --> 00:39:59,880 Speaker 1: I didn't want to cause a scene amid all the 626 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:02,880 Speaker 1: amilies who were there. I go to cons all the time, 627 00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:05,399 Speaker 1: and I love seeing the cost players there. I never 628 00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:07,800 Speaker 1: judge them on whether they are exactly like the character 629 00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:10,120 Speaker 1: they are portraying. I try to make a point of 630 00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:12,160 Speaker 1: going up to everyone and telling them what a great 631 00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:14,880 Speaker 1: costume they have. I enjoy your podcast and shared this 632 00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:17,799 Speaker 1: particular episode with quite a few people I know, so 633 00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:20,040 Speaker 1: thank you, Brian, thank you for your letter, and thanks 634 00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:22,440 Speaker 1: to everybody who's written in to us Mom stuff at 635 00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:25,160 Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com is our email address and 636 00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:27,200 Speaker 1: for links to all of our social media as well 637 00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:30,879 Speaker 1: as all of our blogs, videos and podcasts, including this 638 00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:33,240 Speaker 1: one with all of our sources, so you can follow 639 00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:37,240 Speaker 1: along as we ship chat that on. Over to stuff 640 00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:43,520 Speaker 1: Mom Never Told You dot com for more on this 641 00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:46,200 Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics. Is it how stuff Works 642 00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:54,560 Speaker 1: dot com.