1 00:00:01,560 --> 00:00:02,920 Speaker 1: Unplugging is Forgotten Seasons. 2 00:00:04,559 --> 00:00:08,080 Speaker 2: What is good? Everybody? Welcome to Forgotten Seasons. This is 3 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:11,280 Speaker 2: your host, Dylan Dreyfus. Today a little bit of a 4 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:14,760 Speaker 2: different format. As you know, usually we relive an entire 5 00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:18,079 Speaker 2: team season, but today we are going to be diving 6 00:00:18,160 --> 00:00:21,919 Speaker 2: deep into the epic heavyweight battle between Vince Carter and 7 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:25,880 Speaker 2: Allen Iverson in the two thousand and one Eastern Conference semifinals, 8 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:29,440 Speaker 2: one of the greatest playoff series of all time and 9 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:32,960 Speaker 2: the absolute apex of both Alan Iverson and Vince Carter. 10 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:36,240 Speaker 2: Joining me to travel back to May of two thousand 11 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:40,160 Speaker 2: and one is Justin Tinsley, a frequent on ESPN's Around 12 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:44,600 Speaker 2: the Horn, an author, and a writer for ESPNS The Undefeated. 13 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:47,480 Speaker 2: A few top of line notes on both VC and AI. 14 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:50,519 Speaker 2: Starting with Vince, this was year three of his career. 15 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:53,200 Speaker 2: He averaged twenty seven points per game and was hitting 16 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:57,040 Speaker 2: the three ball at a forty percent clip. However, despite 17 00:00:57,040 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 2: his brilliance, he was trying to shake that label that 18 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 2: we've seen so many times of amazing player, all the 19 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 2: talent in the world, but can he show up in 20 00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:09,080 Speaker 2: the big moments. Shifting over to Iverson, a real transformational year, 21 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:12,039 Speaker 2: for Chuck, his two thousand and one playoff run is 22 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:14,640 Speaker 2: up there with the greatest runs ever, even though it 23 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:17,880 Speaker 2: didn't result in a championship. But to really appreciate this 24 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:20,920 Speaker 2: moment of Iverson's career, you have to understand just who 25 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 2: he was at this time and what he was going through. 26 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 2: He was a man villainized by the media and the 27 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 2: league office for his off the court and some on 28 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:31,840 Speaker 2: the court actions, but two thousand and one is where 29 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:35,760 Speaker 2: he becomes a true leader and league MVP. Before we 30 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:38,080 Speaker 2: get into this one, as always, if you find yourself 31 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 2: coming back, please drop a rating and a review. Takes 32 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:43,839 Speaker 2: a few seconds but makes a big difference. Also check 33 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 2: out the rest of the Showtime Basketball catalog. We got 34 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 2: all the Smoke Cage certified. What's Burning? A great lineup 35 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 2: of shows hosted by NBA legends. Definitely tap in. Let's 36 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:57,360 Speaker 2: get into this one. Forgotten Seasons Vince Carter versus Allen 37 00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 2: Iverson two thousand and one begins right now. Welcome everybody 38 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 2: to Forgotten Seasons. Welcome to my man. An early supporter 39 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 2: of Forgotten Seasons. Justin Tinsley JT. How's it going today? 40 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:09,960 Speaker 1: Man? 41 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:13,639 Speaker 3: Man? It is a true honor and privilege and pleasure 42 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 3: to be on it. Excuse me to be on here 43 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 3: with you, man Like, I can't wait to dive into 44 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:18,040 Speaker 3: these topics. 45 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:21,560 Speaker 2: Bro Like, it's I'm so excited now. The feeling is mutual. 46 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 2: You wrote an amazing article about the Iverson Vince Carter 47 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:29,960 Speaker 2: playoff series, I believe last year, which got me down 48 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:34,120 Speaker 2: the rabbit hole. I think NBA fans view this as 49 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 2: one of, if not the greatest non finals playoff series ever. 50 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:43,160 Speaker 2: We have Alan Iverson and Vince Carter at their absolute apexes. 51 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 2: To begin, I want to just set the scene, talk 52 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:50,359 Speaker 2: through with you what the league was like in two 53 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:52,920 Speaker 2: thousand and one. I think today we look back at 54 00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:56,120 Speaker 2: these early two thousands time period with a lot of love, 55 00:02:56,480 --> 00:03:01,480 Speaker 2: like this is a raw A new generation of stars 56 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 2: are in the league. But in the moment when I 57 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:06,640 Speaker 2: was looking back, it's kind of a weird time in 58 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 2: the league. This is post Jordan, this is pre Lebron. 59 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 2: The NBA ratings are down, and there's a real identity 60 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 2: crisis with the NBA. I think the nineties was sort 61 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:18,480 Speaker 2: of this suit and tie, buttoned up era, and now 62 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 2: we have this new generation of stars led by Alan Iverson, 63 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:27,840 Speaker 2: who is wearing baggy clothes, he's you know, all tatted up, 64 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:31,240 Speaker 2: and the NBA, led by David Stern, does not like this. 65 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 2: It reminds me a lot of like how baseball is today. 66 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 2: They're trying to downplay all the flashiness. So as we're 67 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:39,920 Speaker 2: setting the scene, what do you remember just about this 68 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 2: time in the league, in the relationship between this new 69 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:46,040 Speaker 2: generation of players led by Allen Iverson and the media 70 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:47,400 Speaker 2: and commissioner David Stern. 71 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's great that you mentioned that, and I think 72 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:53,600 Speaker 3: before we even get to two thousand and one, you 73 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 3: mentioned post Jordan and pre Lebron, but this is also 74 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:00,839 Speaker 3: pre lockout, I mean post lockout is Well, so you're 75 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:04,960 Speaker 3: still dealing with the nastiness that was that nineteen ninety 76 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:07,920 Speaker 3: eight nineteen ninety nine lockout. Obviously, the Spurs one in 77 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:10,840 Speaker 3: ninety nine and Shock and Kobe get their first title 78 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 3: in two thousand, So when you're coming into two thousand 79 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 3: and one, people really aren't talking about the lockout anymore, 80 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 3: but there's still a feeling of like, I remember what 81 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:23,320 Speaker 3: that felt like, and that didn't feel good, and obviously 82 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 3: Michael Jordan not being there obviously that you know, cloused 83 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:30,360 Speaker 3: a lot of things too, and we'll get into that topic. 84 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:33,520 Speaker 3: I kind of remember this as being like the beginning 85 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 3: of the cultural revolution that the NBA experienced. Yes, it 86 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 3: was with guys like Alan Iverson, it was with guys 87 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:44,680 Speaker 3: like Vince Carter. Because one of the most important moments 88 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 3: for the NBA after that lockout was the two thousand 89 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:52,559 Speaker 3: dunk contests. And because if you remember, the last dunk 90 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:55,560 Speaker 3: contest before two thousand was ninety seven when Kobe won. 91 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 1: Kobe won it in. 92 00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:59,560 Speaker 3: Ninety seven, there wasn't a There wasn't a dunk contest 93 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:01,599 Speaker 3: in nineteen ninety eight, which is kind of crazy because 94 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:04,039 Speaker 3: the ninety eight All Star Game was it Madison Square Garden. 95 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 2: Why wasn't there a dunk contest? 96 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:09,799 Speaker 3: Because the ratings and the feeling around the dunk contest 97 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:12,599 Speaker 3: and run the mid mid to late nineties, it was 98 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:14,480 Speaker 3: just like, oh, this isn't what it used to be, 99 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 3: So like Kobe wanted in ninety seven for whatever reason, 100 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:22,039 Speaker 3: I guess the reasons that I named, and probably even more, 101 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 3: there wasn't a dunk contest in nineteen ninety eight, Jordan's 102 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 3: last All Star Game. It was Kobe's first All Star 103 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:30,800 Speaker 3: game in Madison Square Guarden. You would think, of all 104 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:32,920 Speaker 3: places to have a dunk contest, you would have it there, 105 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 3: but they didn't. And obviously there was no All Star 106 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 3: weekend in nineteen ninety nine. So two thousand, what Vince 107 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:41,239 Speaker 3: Carter did with Vince Carter and Racey McGrady should and 108 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:45,040 Speaker 3: Steve Francis, that was big. So and then you start 109 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:48,719 Speaker 3: the and of course the face of all of this 110 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:52,719 Speaker 3: is Alan Everson, and in good ways and in negative ways, 111 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:57,720 Speaker 3: like he was young, he played, he played under John 112 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 3: Thompson at Georgetown, so he had that cultural stamp going 113 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 3: for him. 114 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:02,800 Speaker 1: Obviously we know the story. 115 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:05,360 Speaker 3: About what happened uh to his high school career when 116 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:07,560 Speaker 3: he was in Virginia and why he had to serve 117 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 3: some time being incarcerated. But the early two thousands I 118 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 3: remember this being, as I said, the start of that 119 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:19,480 Speaker 3: cultural revolution where you start to see so many different 120 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:23,360 Speaker 3: strands attached themselves to the NBA, whether it be pop 121 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 3: culture and of course you know hip hop, like obviously 122 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:31,160 Speaker 3: I remember Vince Carter sticking his arm in the rim, 123 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:33,600 Speaker 3: and you know different rappers talking about that. And obviously 124 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 3: obviously was always a big time used for rappers. 125 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:39,599 Speaker 1: For you know, for beyond obvious reasons. 126 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 3: But honestly, with that cultural revolution came a pushback because 127 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 3: so many people, especially during that time at the turn 128 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:52,640 Speaker 3: of the century, so many people who were covering the 129 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:53,680 Speaker 3: sport didn't. 130 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:55,760 Speaker 1: Look like the guys who were actually playing the sport. 131 00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 3: And once you have that cultural disconnect, there's gonna be 132 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:02,200 Speaker 3: there's gonna be some times when you bump it. So 133 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:06,720 Speaker 3: when you asked me about that cultural revolution, sounds great 134 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:09,680 Speaker 3: and it sounds fun, but you can't have a revolution 135 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 3: without some pushback. 136 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean you mentioned the media members. I think 137 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:15,280 Speaker 2: it's dominated at this time by a lot of older, 138 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:19,120 Speaker 2: you know, white dudes. The two thousand Olympics was a 139 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 2: big sort of buzz topic. Alan Iverson does not get 140 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 2: selected to the Olympics. They say it's because you have 141 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:28,640 Speaker 2: to earn your stripes. It's for veterans, their shooting guards 142 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:30,680 Speaker 2: like Steve Smith and Allan Houston on the team, who 143 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:34,560 Speaker 2: are great players, but they're not Alan Iverson. And Ai 144 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:37,240 Speaker 2: says about this, you know, everybody knows why I was 145 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 2: left off. I don't have to say it. I think 146 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 2: that that was because the NBA was kind of worried 147 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 2: about putting Alan Iverson out into the world and having 148 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:49,640 Speaker 2: that be the representation of the NBA, which even though 149 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 2: he was internally, that's not what they wanted. So for 150 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 2: the people that didn't live through this time, how can 151 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 2: you best illustrate the challenges that that Iverson specifically faced 152 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:01,440 Speaker 2: on a constant basis with the media? 153 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 3: Oh man, how much time do we have for that? 154 00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 1: I mean, for the media. 155 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:13,880 Speaker 3: In so many ways, Alan Iverson was like their favorite 156 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 3: punching bag, Like everything he did was calls for chaos, disruption, controversy, 157 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:23,600 Speaker 3: and sometimes you know, the Iverson stepped into it on 158 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:26,120 Speaker 3: his own. This isn't this isn't like he was completely 159 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:28,880 Speaker 3: innocent in all this, and even he's even said this 160 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:35,079 Speaker 3: in previous interviews. But but Alan Iverson represented I'll say this, 161 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 3: I don't know an athlete who is as important to 162 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 3: the cultural relevancy of his or her individual sport more 163 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 3: than Alan Iverson, because especially at that time, the NBA 164 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:52,280 Speaker 3: couldn't lean on Michael Jordan and who presented himself in 165 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 3: a different way, which is not a bad thing at all, 166 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:58,679 Speaker 3: it just wasn't Iverson. Iverson came in looking like his generation. 167 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 3: You know he listened to hip hop a lot. You know, 168 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:05,920 Speaker 3: this is when corn rows were really starting to appear 169 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 3: in everywhere. I remember people. I remember people in my school, 170 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:12,800 Speaker 3: guys and girls getting corn rolls because of Alan Iverson. 171 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:15,680 Speaker 3: I remember, you know when he started wearing the arms sleeve. 172 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:18,479 Speaker 3: Guys used to go, Guys used to go to the 173 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:21,559 Speaker 3: pickup court with like tube socks, like an arms leave 174 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:24,720 Speaker 3: because Alan Iverson did it. Like this dude was so important. 175 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:28,880 Speaker 3: He inspired so many people. But he inspired so especially 176 00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:32,600 Speaker 3: so many young young black kids growing up. And he 177 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:34,959 Speaker 3: wore that with the badge of honor. And I don't 178 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:36,280 Speaker 3: even know if he was trying to do it. He 179 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:38,840 Speaker 3: was just being himself. So you know, when he would 180 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 3: show up with the jewelry, when he would show up 181 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:42,160 Speaker 3: with the do rags on, he would show up with 182 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:45,079 Speaker 3: the baggy clothes. That threatened a lot of people. And 183 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 3: when you start to threaten people who don't understand you 184 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:51,400 Speaker 3: and your life experiences, they're going to try to tear 185 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:55,760 Speaker 3: you down at every opportune moment. So you know, if 186 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:58,280 Speaker 3: it was how he talked, if it was how he dressed, 187 00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:00,360 Speaker 3: if it was the people he had around him, there 188 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:03,600 Speaker 3: was always something for the media to poke on and 189 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:07,080 Speaker 3: pride and pick on Alan Iverson for again, this isn't 190 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:10,080 Speaker 3: to say that he was completely innocent in everything he did, 191 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:12,200 Speaker 3: because he was not, but there was there was a 192 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:17,000 Speaker 3: groundswell of yo, I don't understand this, dude, Let's pick 193 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 3: him apart at every possible moment. So when you talk 194 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:23,120 Speaker 3: about those two thousand Olympics, it's it's almost an asinine 195 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:26,680 Speaker 3: that you don't have Iverson on that two thousand team. 196 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 3: Like you, he was already one of the league's best players. 197 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:32,360 Speaker 3: He was already putting up in a gut and an 198 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:35,320 Speaker 3: ungodly amount of points per night in just as what 199 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:37,559 Speaker 3: third or fourth season in the league at that point. 200 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:42,720 Speaker 3: But that was that was a you know, maybe outside 201 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 3: of Isaiah on the ninety two team like that, that 202 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:49,880 Speaker 3: was as agreed, almost as egregious, because you can't you 203 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:51,800 Speaker 3: can't sit here and tell me that Alan Iverson wasn't 204 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:53,680 Speaker 3: one of the twelve best players to put on that 205 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:56,720 Speaker 3: two thousand Olympic team. No disrespect to Steve Smith, of course, 206 00:10:56,800 --> 00:11:00,719 Speaker 3: no disrespect to Alan I, Alan Alan Houston, because they 207 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:02,600 Speaker 3: were great players in their own right and they deserve 208 00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:03,079 Speaker 3: to be there. 209 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:05,520 Speaker 1: But Alan Iverson also deserve to be there as well. 210 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:12,280 Speaker 1: But there was so much, honestly negativity and controversy surrounding 211 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:15,760 Speaker 1: his name that like they you know, Team USA and 212 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:19,000 Speaker 1: David Stern and just the powers that may be. They 213 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:22,600 Speaker 1: were like, I don't feel comfortable putting this young. You 214 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:24,199 Speaker 1: know a lot of people saw him as a thug. 215 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:26,280 Speaker 1: They was like, I don't want to put that thug 216 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 1: out there to repers in our country. 217 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:31,000 Speaker 3: And unfortunately, those are the type of things that Alan 218 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:34,199 Speaker 3: Everson had to deal with, not just in two thousand, 219 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:36,840 Speaker 3: but but honestly the majority of his career. 220 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:40,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean you mentioned that word of thug, and 221 00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 2: that's not only whispered that is put in newspapers constantly 222 00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 2: labeling him as a thug and thug mentality. Shifting gears 223 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:50,600 Speaker 2: to Vince Carter. I want to just kind of set 224 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:52,960 Speaker 2: the stage for both of their careers. You mentioned Iverson, 225 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:55,800 Speaker 2: so going into two thousand and oh one, this is 226 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:59,200 Speaker 2: his fifth season in the league. Vince this is his 227 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 2: third season in the league. And talking about Vince, I 228 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:06,760 Speaker 2: think today it's hard not to focus on but we 229 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:09,720 Speaker 2: see the dunks. He's probably the best dunker of all time, 230 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:12,360 Speaker 2: but just how good he was right away in the 231 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:14,839 Speaker 2: league I think has been lost. He was the first 232 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:18,199 Speaker 2: person ever to average twenty seven points a game, hit 233 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:20,840 Speaker 2: two threes a game, and shoot it at forty percent 234 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:23,960 Speaker 2: from deep. That has only been done a handful of 235 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:27,319 Speaker 2: times since the next time it happened was twenty thirteen. 236 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:30,400 Speaker 2: So you have from nineteen eighty to twenty thirteen where 237 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 2: he is the only player to do that in a 238 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:35,280 Speaker 2: league where players are not shooting a lot of threes. 239 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:38,840 Speaker 2: But despite that, there's constant labels being thrown on him 240 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:41,160 Speaker 2: and a lot of players by the media and the 241 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:43,839 Speaker 2: NBA trying to find that next Jordan and Vince was 242 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:46,160 Speaker 2: an easy target. They played the same position, they went 243 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:48,319 Speaker 2: to the same college, they spent the same amount of 244 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:51,080 Speaker 2: time in college. But no disrespect to Vince, you know, 245 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:54,400 Speaker 2: he just wasn't Michael Jordan. But can you just just 246 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:57,600 Speaker 2: illustrate to the people what the emergence of Vince Carter 247 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 2: was like because this predage social med but it was 248 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:01,760 Speaker 2: a spectacle. 249 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:06,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't think that's a nitpicking stat at all 250 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:09,520 Speaker 3: for the record, because you thank you when you when 251 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:12,199 Speaker 3: you when you mentioned that stat in that era, Now 252 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 3: when we hear twenty seven points a game two three. Hell, 253 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:17,560 Speaker 3: we're expecting to hit four five three is a game 254 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:20,559 Speaker 3: in twenty twenty two and then shoot forty percent from 255 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:23,320 Speaker 3: three like in the late nineties, early two thousands. That 256 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:26,520 Speaker 3: isn't on her type of stat Like you got to 257 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:28,600 Speaker 3: put you know, so when people hear this, I hope 258 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:31,480 Speaker 3: they put it in context with the actual time that 259 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:35,200 Speaker 3: it happened. That was incredible, and yes, for the bang 260 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:37,440 Speaker 3: from my bug, Vince Carter is the greatest dunker of 261 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:41,520 Speaker 3: all time, like in NBA history, Like I I will 262 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:43,880 Speaker 3: go to my grave thinking that until somebody else. 263 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 1: Proves me wrong. 264 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:48,160 Speaker 3: Now, when Vince Carter was already one of the most 265 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:50,600 Speaker 3: exciting players in college, he went to one of the 266 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:53,600 Speaker 3: blue blood schools, obviously North Carolina, and he was, you know, 267 00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:58,040 Speaker 3: super exciting there, played with Antoine jameson a bunch of 268 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 3: other great guys out there. I believe Coda was was 269 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:03,760 Speaker 3: his point guard in North Carolina. I'm pretty sure I 270 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:07,560 Speaker 3: could be wrong on that, Yeah, but you know, so 271 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:10,360 Speaker 3: when he there, there was an excitement of him coming 272 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:13,120 Speaker 3: to the league because he was musty TV at Carolina. 273 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 1: We just didn't know where he was going to go. 274 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:19,040 Speaker 3: In the league and how you know, feasible it was 275 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 3: going to be to see him on a nightly basis. Now, 276 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:24,760 Speaker 3: obviously he was drafted by Golden State, but then he 277 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:27,520 Speaker 3: was traded to Toronto for the fourth five SWAT with 278 00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:33,720 Speaker 3: his college teammate an Twine Jamison. So I truly think 279 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:37,320 Speaker 3: if Vince Carter doesn't go to Toronto, I don't know if 280 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:41,200 Speaker 3: basketball is still in Toronto. Like he's he's that important, 281 00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 3: he's that like he he is when they call him 282 00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:46,120 Speaker 3: Air Canada, like. 283 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 2: That name Joe. Look at look at the Grizzlies. I 284 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 2: mean another Canadian team that didn't get that Vince Carter. 285 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:55,040 Speaker 2: They tried Steve Francis, but he wouldn't go there and 286 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:57,280 Speaker 2: they ceased to exist exactly. 287 00:14:57,360 --> 00:14:59,800 Speaker 3: And it such because Vancouver is a great city obviously, 288 00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:03,160 Speaker 3: but Memphis is a wonderful and historic. 289 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:05,320 Speaker 1: Basketball city as well. But in terms of. 290 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 3: Vince Carter, so when he got to the league, there 291 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:08,520 Speaker 3: was an instant excitement. 292 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:10,920 Speaker 1: And this is, honestly is. 293 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:14,280 Speaker 3: What the NBA needed, Like the NBA for so long 294 00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:17,040 Speaker 3: and they and you know, people within the league who 295 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:19,400 Speaker 3: worked in these positions at that point in time, they 296 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:22,160 Speaker 3: said it themselves, like they got they got comfortable when 297 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:24,480 Speaker 3: Michael Jordan was in the league. Michael Jordan was gonna 298 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:27,040 Speaker 3: get you ratings just off of the fact that Michael 299 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 3: Jordan stepped on a basketball court, whether he was playing 300 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:31,760 Speaker 3: in Madison Square Garden or whether he was playing in 301 00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:34,920 Speaker 3: Vancouver with the expansion team Grizzlies. At that point, like 302 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:38,440 Speaker 3: you could put Michael Jordan on TV eighty two games 303 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:41,040 Speaker 3: a year and you have each night will probably get 304 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 3: a higher rating than the next. That's that's how That's 305 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:47,320 Speaker 3: how easy life was for the NBA with Michael Jordan. 306 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 3: So when he left, there was like, Okay, who do 307 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 3: we have? Was they had a ton of great young stars, 308 00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:55,960 Speaker 3: but they didn't have Michael Jordan. But but Vince Carter 309 00:15:56,040 --> 00:16:00,560 Speaker 3: in particular, it felt like from day one one, you 310 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:02,800 Speaker 3: can tell this guy was going to be a superstar 311 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 3: in the league. And you just mentioned the stats. Uh, 312 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 3: you mentioned something to me even before the call, like 313 00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:11,480 Speaker 3: he was what one of like five or six players 314 00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:14,920 Speaker 3: before nineteen eighty Yeah, so after nineteen eighty. 315 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:16,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, in the first two years of a career since 316 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 2: nineteen eighty up until that point, the only players that 317 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:22,040 Speaker 2: have averaged twenty two points a game through their first 318 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:25,920 Speaker 2: two seasons are Michael Jordan, Mitch Richmond, who's forgotten. He 319 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:27,520 Speaker 2: was nice. If you don't know who he is, hell, 320 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 2: everybody go look at him, Shack, David Robinson, AI, and 321 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 2: Vince So it's right, it's right away that those are 322 00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:35,560 Speaker 2: all Hall of I. 323 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:37,720 Speaker 1: Mean, Mitch Richmond should be in the Hall of Fame. 324 00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 2: I think he is. 325 00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:40,800 Speaker 3: Oh he is, yeah, yeah, and you're right he is. 326 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:43,080 Speaker 3: So they're all Hall of famers. And Vince Carter will 327 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 3: one day, of course be in the Hall of Fame. 328 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:46,360 Speaker 3: But he was good from the jump. 329 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 2: You look back at the at just what opposing players 330 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:51,920 Speaker 2: and opposing coaches were saying about him, and it's like, 331 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:53,320 Speaker 2: we can't do anything with. 332 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:56,800 Speaker 3: Them, No, you can't like and he was you know, 333 00:16:57,240 --> 00:16:59,800 Speaker 3: Iverson was more of a volume shooter like he was 334 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 3: to get his thirty points, but sometimes it's going to 335 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:06,680 Speaker 3: take him twenty two to twenty shots on a good night. 336 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:08,680 Speaker 3: Vince Carter could get you thirty and he could take 337 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:11,959 Speaker 3: fourteen fifteen shots to still get to the rim. And 338 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:16,960 Speaker 3: like he was, he was quite efficient on his best days. 339 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:20,360 Speaker 3: So Vince Carter was, he was, he was far He's 340 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:22,480 Speaker 3: the greatest dunker of all time, but that if you 341 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:27,320 Speaker 3: just belittle him to just being a dunker, obviously you 342 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:30,760 Speaker 3: didn't watch him, and two you weren't, you're not giving 343 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:33,160 Speaker 3: respect to a future Hall of Famer. And just how 344 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:37,800 Speaker 3: polished his all around game actually was beautiful. 345 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:38,719 Speaker 1: It was. 346 00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:39,920 Speaker 2: It was just a beautiful game. 347 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:40,720 Speaker 1: Yeah. 348 00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:43,800 Speaker 2: Pivoting back to Irison real quick. We talked about his 349 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:47,760 Speaker 2: his feuds with the media, and I think another area 350 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:51,199 Speaker 2: that has been forgotten is his his problems with the 351 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:55,560 Speaker 2: Sixers organization. They actually traded him in the summer in 352 00:17:55,640 --> 00:18:00,280 Speaker 2: two thousand, not trade speculation, not rumors. They put pen 353 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:02,920 Speaker 2: to paper and traded him to Detroit in a four 354 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:05,520 Speaker 2: team deal that involved Glen Rice, Christian Latner in a 355 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:07,840 Speaker 2: few other names. The only reason that trade doesn't go 356 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:12,720 Speaker 2: through is because Matt Geiger, decent but not great big 357 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:16,359 Speaker 2: man on the Sixers, refused to waive his trade kicker 358 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:19,280 Speaker 2: to make the trade go through. So Iverson not only 359 00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:21,199 Speaker 2: is dealing with the public, he's also dealing with the 360 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:25,480 Speaker 2: Sixers organization. He is pleading and making his case to 361 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:28,240 Speaker 2: be named captain of the Sixers, which was met with 362 00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:33,080 Speaker 2: great hesitancy by their organization and Larry Brown, So Iverson 363 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:35,720 Speaker 2: is just trying to find his way. But I think 364 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:39,080 Speaker 2: this season is really the transformation of him. He does 365 00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:42,880 Speaker 2: get awarded that captaincy, and throughout the season you hear 366 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:46,639 Speaker 2: and see pieces that he is becoming that leader. He 367 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:50,399 Speaker 2: is becoming that person mentally and emotionally that everybody so 368 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:53,760 Speaker 2: wanted him to be. Do you remember just just the 369 00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:57,760 Speaker 2: transformation of the discourse surrounding Iverson as that two thousand 370 00:18:57,760 --> 00:19:00,640 Speaker 2: and two thousand and one season goes underway. The Sixers 371 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:02,800 Speaker 2: obviously jump out to that great start, they end up 372 00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:05,199 Speaker 2: with the one seed, Iverson runs away with the MVP. 373 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:10,159 Speaker 2: What does that transformation of Iverson look like in that season? 374 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:15,920 Speaker 1: You know, Like I remember that season clearly. 375 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:18,560 Speaker 3: I was coming into my own at that point. I 376 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:20,120 Speaker 3: was at a different point in time in my life, 377 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:22,159 Speaker 3: leaving middle school to go to high school. I was 378 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:24,919 Speaker 3: a huge basketball fan, and I used to just like 379 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:28,720 Speaker 3: try to swallow all the NBA information that I could, 380 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:31,600 Speaker 3: like whether the early days of the internet, newspaper still 381 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:34,199 Speaker 3: at the time, and I remember hearing about, you know, 382 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:39,520 Speaker 3: that Iverson trade, that that damn near was, and I 383 00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:43,840 Speaker 3: look back on it, I remember hearing obviously the practice 384 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 3: situations where he would show up late. Sometimes sometimes he 385 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:49,520 Speaker 3: would be the first one out of the door. Obviously, 386 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:53,760 Speaker 3: the controversy with his rap album and you know the 387 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:56,400 Speaker 3: people he offended with that, and David Stern damn near 388 00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:59,040 Speaker 3: had a heart attack when he heard that tape. Like, 389 00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:02,080 Speaker 3: you know, as much as I love Chuck like he 390 00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:04,600 Speaker 3: wasn't he didn't make it easy him himself in a 391 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:08,199 Speaker 3: lot of ways, you know, Like again he was not 392 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:10,480 Speaker 3: one hundred percent innocent, and a lot of things that 393 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:14,360 Speaker 3: he did, but he always One thing about Alan Iverson 394 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:15,480 Speaker 3: is he always owned. 395 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:16,239 Speaker 1: Up to it. Eventually too. 396 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:17,960 Speaker 3: He was like, you know what I was trigger, you know, 397 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:21,119 Speaker 3: I shouldn't have done that. But also like he was, 398 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:25,800 Speaker 3: what two thousand, what is he like twenty four twenty five? Like, 399 00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:29,400 Speaker 3: you're still finding your way in the world. Again, I'm 400 00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 3: not trying to make an excuse for him, but we've 401 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:33,960 Speaker 3: all been twenty four to twenty five. Hell, I'm thirty six, 402 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:35,480 Speaker 3: still trying to find my way in the world in 403 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:39,520 Speaker 3: some ways, you know. So I remember that the controversy 404 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:42,639 Speaker 3: and just it felt like the weight of the world 405 00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:45,200 Speaker 3: was on Iverson's shoulders. So when I heard about that trade, 406 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:48,120 Speaker 3: I'm like wow, Like I can't even nowadays, I can't 407 00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:50,680 Speaker 3: even imagine Iverson being traded from Philly, you know, he's 408 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 3: so synonymous with that city. 409 00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:55,720 Speaker 1: But is one of the great what ifs in NBA history. 410 00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:58,160 Speaker 3: I go back to, like what if the Lakers draft 411 00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:02,119 Speaker 3: Dominique Wilkins and number one overall in nineteen eighty two 412 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:05,000 Speaker 3: instead of James Worthy, Or like what if the Bulls 413 00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:08,280 Speaker 3: actually traded Michael Jordan to the Clippers? Like that was 414 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:10,800 Speaker 3: the thing that almost happened, Or like what if Kobe 415 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:14,359 Speaker 3: didn't didn't leave Shark or what if Tim Duncan actually 416 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:18,600 Speaker 3: joins t Mac in Orlando in two thousand, Like Iverson 417 00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:22,400 Speaker 3: to Detroit was literally the closest of all of those 418 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:26,400 Speaker 3: ever happened. Like you said, it all hinged on Matt Geiger, 419 00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:32,840 Speaker 3: Like the cultural relevancy and significance in a lot of 420 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:35,000 Speaker 3: ways of the of the NBA in the early two 421 00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:39,480 Speaker 3: thousands doesn't necessarily hinge on Alan Iverson. It hinged on 422 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:43,720 Speaker 3: Matt Geiger. So when you when you when you when 423 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:47,000 Speaker 3: you read stories from Pat Crochey, who was the gym 424 00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:50,080 Speaker 3: at the time of the Sixers, you see that like 425 00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:52,280 Speaker 3: when they asked him like how close was Iverson to 426 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:54,800 Speaker 3: getting traded. He'll tell you like, oh, it's as close 427 00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:57,679 Speaker 3: as close can get. It was gonna happen. I Crochey 428 00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:00,240 Speaker 3: was a huge fan of Iverson, but you know, he 429 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:02,920 Speaker 3: was just butting heads with Larry Brown and since his 430 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:06,560 Speaker 3: management to the point where it almost left him no choice. Thankfully, 431 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:11,320 Speaker 3: Matt Geiger saved the entire NBA. But I think that 432 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:14,359 Speaker 3: was a reality check for AI too, you know, like 433 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:16,760 Speaker 3: he's like, Okay, well, I am the best player on 434 00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:21,840 Speaker 3: the team, but that doesn't mean I get away, you know, yeah, business, 435 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:24,040 Speaker 3: I can't get away with whatever the hell I want 436 00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:26,040 Speaker 3: to do with time. So in that two thousand and 437 00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:29,200 Speaker 3: two thousand and one season, you did see a turn 438 00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:34,880 Speaker 3: in AI, Like he his leadership skills improved, obviously, how 439 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:37,600 Speaker 3: he could, how he communicated with his teammates improved. Which 440 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:40,959 Speaker 3: is why of all the stories you hear about Alan Iverson, 441 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 3: you you don't really hear about his former teammates saying like, 442 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:46,720 Speaker 3: oh man, it suck to play with this guy, like 443 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:48,679 Speaker 3: they always said, like this dude left it all on 444 00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:49,000 Speaker 3: the court. 445 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:50,080 Speaker 1: He was a great teammate. 446 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:52,760 Speaker 3: And I think in that two thousand and two thousand 447 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:56,440 Speaker 3: and one season you really start to see everything come 448 00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:59,920 Speaker 3: together for Ai, you know, and it showed like he 449 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,640 Speaker 3: led the league in scoring that year thirty one points 450 00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:04,960 Speaker 3: a game, which is I believe the highest since mj 451 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:07,680 Speaker 3: or yeah in ninety three at that point. 452 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:10,919 Speaker 1: So it was it was beautiful to come to. It 453 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:12,639 Speaker 1: was beautiful to see it come together like that. 454 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:15,679 Speaker 2: So yeah, real funny on Mat Giger. I did a 455 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:20,040 Speaker 2: post about that almost trade and said that when they 456 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:22,480 Speaker 2: build Iverson Statue in Philly, which I don't believe is 457 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:25,080 Speaker 2: built yet, they got to put a little plaque with 458 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:28,439 Speaker 2: Matt Giger's name at the bottom of Bens. He is 459 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:30,880 Speaker 2: the reason he's there. And I also think, just real 460 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:35,520 Speaker 2: quick that Iverson the leadership. Something that has been forgotten 461 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:37,359 Speaker 2: that was a great moment is after he won the 462 00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 2: two thousand and one All Star MVP, the first thing 463 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:42,399 Speaker 2: he did is says, where's Larry Brown, where's my coach? 464 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:44,919 Speaker 2: Which doesn't sound significant, but when you go back and 465 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:49,560 Speaker 2: realize how much those two butted heads and resented each other, 466 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:54,639 Speaker 2: that I think symbolized his transformation into the true leader 467 00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:56,280 Speaker 2: into the playoffs. 468 00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 3: And I think too, just to go off of what 469 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:05,440 Speaker 3: you said, Larry Brown loved Alan Iverson. Alan Iverson loved 470 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:09,840 Speaker 3: Larry Brown, but sometimes love is a complicated emotion, you know. 471 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:11,600 Speaker 1: So like there were. 472 00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:14,720 Speaker 3: Times when I mean, hell, if you read Phil Jackson's book, 473 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:18,560 Speaker 3: he was thinking about trading Kobe for Jason Kidd and Sean. 474 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:22,040 Speaker 2: Marry Phil Jackson. Phil Jackson was I mean, they call 475 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:26,320 Speaker 2: him he's the guru, but the end master. But he 476 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:28,359 Speaker 2: really played mind games with his player. 477 00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:30,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, he really did. He really did. 478 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:32,960 Speaker 3: But in terms of Larry Brown and Alan Everson, like 479 00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:36,840 Speaker 3: they loved each other, and I think they always wanted 480 00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:41,720 Speaker 3: the same thing, it's just their their personalities didn't mesh 481 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:43,560 Speaker 3: at the beginning. And I think it was something that 482 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:48,199 Speaker 3: Alan Everson just needed to to realize how important it 483 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:51,160 Speaker 3: was for the betterment of his career. And I think 484 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:53,520 Speaker 3: Larry Brown understands, like y'all need this guy as well. 485 00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:55,520 Speaker 3: I just need us to be on the same page. 486 00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:58,560 Speaker 3: And once they got there, they were there. And the 487 00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:01,639 Speaker 3: way that you know, we talked about AI's interview with 488 00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:04,119 Speaker 3: Steven A. Smith in like two thousand and five, two 489 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:06,359 Speaker 3: thousand and six, there's a part in there where Larry 490 00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:10,080 Speaker 3: Brown comes up and Alan Iverson tears up. He was like, 491 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:13,159 Speaker 3: I love that guy. Like we went through hell together. 492 00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:15,640 Speaker 3: I put him through hell, he put me through hell. 493 00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:17,800 Speaker 3: But like they came out on the other side together. 494 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:22,359 Speaker 3: And I believe, I believe it was an Indy, which 495 00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:25,240 Speaker 3: when I tell this story, it may not be all 496 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:26,440 Speaker 3: that surprise and given. 497 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:28,200 Speaker 2: Now I know where you're going. It was an Indy, 498 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:28,680 Speaker 2: it wasn't. 499 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:32,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, So somebody was calling him I was a jailbird 500 00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:36,199 Speaker 3: from the stands, and I believe Iverson responded in a 501 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:39,520 Speaker 3: way that he should not have responded. But you know, 502 00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:43,199 Speaker 3: Larry Brown came to his defense in a lot of ways, 503 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:46,600 Speaker 3: Like you can't keep calling him outside of his name 504 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:49,480 Speaker 3: while he's trying to play a game for something that 505 00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:50,639 Speaker 3: happened in his past. 506 00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:53,200 Speaker 1: And so like they started to defend each other. They can't. 507 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:54,800 Speaker 1: And once they started to like grow. 508 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:59,240 Speaker 3: Together, they they really Yeah, they flourished and like that 509 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:00,879 Speaker 3: team made it all the way to the finals. And 510 00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:03,520 Speaker 3: I'm sure we'll talk about that, but that Larry Brown, 511 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:08,919 Speaker 3: Larry Brown and Alan Averson, I guess coming on the 512 00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:12,360 Speaker 3: same page together change the trajectory of both of their careers, 513 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:15,280 Speaker 3: and I think for a better way, at least in 514 00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:17,040 Speaker 3: that moment in time one hundred. 515 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:19,199 Speaker 2: Larry Brown's a legend. That's somebody I love to just 516 00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:21,160 Speaker 2: sit down with. You go back in his track record. 517 00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:24,280 Speaker 2: He was a big ABA coach. He's been He's been 518 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:26,840 Speaker 2: a key figure in a lot of big moments the 519 00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:31,639 Speaker 2: NBA history. So then pivoting to Vince Real quickly. The 520 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:35,280 Speaker 2: Sixers finished as the one seed. Allan Iverson wins MVP, 521 00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:38,280 Speaker 2: Vince has a breakout season, takes big leaps. The Raptors 522 00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:41,720 Speaker 2: finish as the four seed. And we mentioned Vince's brilliance. 523 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,320 Speaker 2: One of the most talented players ever, but that label, 524 00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:48,119 Speaker 2: similar to how a Lebron was looked at early in 525 00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:51,280 Speaker 2: his career, is that he's great. He's talented, but when 526 00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:54,720 Speaker 2: the lights are shining the brightest, he's not going to 527 00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:59,080 Speaker 2: show up. And in the playoffs before in two thousand, 528 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:01,920 Speaker 2: they really get embarrassed by the Knicks. In the first round, 529 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:04,440 Speaker 2: they get swept through the zero. Vince averages like under 530 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:07,160 Speaker 2: twenty points. He shoots thirty percent from the field, so 531 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:09,359 Speaker 2: he's still feeling that. And in the first round of 532 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:12,960 Speaker 2: the playoffs the Raptors play the Knicks again, they're down 533 00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:17,000 Speaker 2: to one. Vince struggles and you have his own teammates 534 00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:20,119 Speaker 2: really calling him out in the media. Charles Oakley, who's 535 00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:25,160 Speaker 2: still talking shit about NBA players, is saying basically, like, 536 00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:27,240 Speaker 2: you know, Vince needs to step up. We're not going 537 00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:30,040 Speaker 2: to win this series if he doesn't. Vince responds. In 538 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:32,720 Speaker 2: Game four and five of that series, he averages thirty 539 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:36,680 Speaker 2: He shoots like seventy percent from three guns blazing. So 540 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:40,560 Speaker 2: we really have Vince overcoming that mental hurdle of being 541 00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:42,240 Speaker 2: labeled as a player that isn't going to show up 542 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:45,680 Speaker 2: in the in the bright moments, and Iverson coming off 543 00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:49,360 Speaker 2: that MVP and breezing through the pacers in round one. 544 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:53,439 Speaker 2: So we have this convergence of these two forces coming together, 545 00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:59,480 Speaker 2: and it all comes together in that second round playoff series. 546 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,960 Speaker 2: I guess just like try and encapsulate the feeling and 547 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,640 Speaker 2: the discourse that was going on as these two forces 548 00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:10,080 Speaker 2: met in the second round of the Eastern Conference playoffs. 549 00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:16,239 Speaker 3: Man, Okay, I'm from Virginia, So like Alan Iverson can 550 00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:18,160 Speaker 3: do no wrong to a lot of us in Virginia, 551 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:21,520 Speaker 3: and so we're rooting for him for that for that matter, 552 00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:24,760 Speaker 3: But like we're also huge Vince Carter fans, because how 553 00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:26,560 Speaker 3: could you not be a big Vince Carter fan in 554 00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:31,560 Speaker 3: two thousand and one. And it's great that you mentioned 555 00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:35,440 Speaker 3: the labels that were placed on Vince at that point 556 00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:37,639 Speaker 3: in time in his career, because I still think somebody 557 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:40,320 Speaker 3: like a James Harden struggles with those labels right now, 558 00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:44,400 Speaker 3: like yeah, great, you know, great individual player, you know, 559 00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:47,160 Speaker 3: one of a once in a generation type talent, but 560 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:48,960 Speaker 3: can he get it done in the big game. So 561 00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:51,040 Speaker 3: I remember, go ahead. 562 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:53,320 Speaker 2: To be fair Vince Carter. This was year three and 563 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:56,240 Speaker 2: it was being placed on the James Harden has had 564 00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:57,920 Speaker 2: his fair chances. 565 00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:00,840 Speaker 1: That, to your point, is year three. I remember thinking like, yeah, man, 566 00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:02,360 Speaker 1: he's only been the league three years. 567 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:07,479 Speaker 3: Like I mean, anyways, I was happy when you know, 568 00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:10,080 Speaker 3: they overcame the Knicks in that one series, and as 569 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:13,280 Speaker 3: you said, Vince played out of his mind. I was like, 570 00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:15,680 Speaker 3: oh man, that's the best I've ever seen Vince Carter play. 571 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:19,400 Speaker 3: And I'm like, little did I know this Iverson versus 572 00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,120 Speaker 3: Carter series was coming in together. So it was already 573 00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:26,240 Speaker 3: going to be exciting because it was Alan Iverson Vince Carter, 574 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:28,400 Speaker 3: you know what I mean, two of the most exciting 575 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:31,160 Speaker 3: players in the league, two of the most exciting teams 576 00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:33,520 Speaker 3: in the league, and you just figure like, all right, well, 577 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:36,080 Speaker 3: these two teams are going to be going at it 578 00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,040 Speaker 3: for years to come, because they were built to be 579 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:40,000 Speaker 3: playing each other for. 580 00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:41,400 Speaker 1: You know, a couple of seasons. 581 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:44,600 Speaker 3: But I had no clue that, oh one series was 582 00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:49,560 Speaker 3: going to be what it became. Like the the trading, 583 00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:52,520 Speaker 3: the fifty point games, it's like, okay, a, So. 584 00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:54,840 Speaker 2: Just to set the scene, like talk about those fifty 585 00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:57,760 Speaker 2: point games you were mentioning, So in game two AI 586 00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:01,120 Speaker 2: starts out with fifty four, then Vince res and has 587 00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:06,040 Speaker 2: fifty and then in game five AI has fifty two again, 588 00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:10,280 Speaker 2: so just to sort of put the chronological chronological order 589 00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:11,160 Speaker 2: on those games. 590 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:14,280 Speaker 3: And it was amazing because I think in game six, 591 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:17,720 Speaker 3: like Vince didn't have That was another game where people 592 00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:19,600 Speaker 3: were like, oh, Vince needs to step up, Vince needs 593 00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:22,040 Speaker 3: to do this. I believe he didn't have fifty, but 594 00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:25,320 Speaker 3: I think he had like thirty nine in game six, 595 00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:29,840 Speaker 3: So like it was like watching like, to me, my 596 00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:31,240 Speaker 3: favorite round of boxing ever. 597 00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:33,200 Speaker 1: Is round one of Hagler Hearns. 598 00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:35,600 Speaker 3: Like it was just nothing but Haymakers. They were just 599 00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:38,480 Speaker 3: like trying to kill each other. It was amazing to 600 00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:40,880 Speaker 3: watch and that's what that series felt like. I didn't 601 00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:43,719 Speaker 3: know that at the time because I wasn't as familiar 602 00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:45,640 Speaker 3: with hagular Hearns in two thousand and one as a 603 00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:47,080 Speaker 3: fifteen year old as I am now. 604 00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:49,840 Speaker 1: But like there were just nothing behaymakers. 605 00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:51,760 Speaker 3: It was like, oh, man, a, I dropped fifty four 606 00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:54,200 Speaker 3: in game two, so you're going back to school the 607 00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:56,040 Speaker 3: next day, You're going into the lunch room with all 608 00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:59,680 Speaker 3: your boys, Like yo, AI dropped fifty for like fifty 609 00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:01,640 Speaker 3: two before last night, what's Vin's gonna do? 610 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:05,640 Speaker 1: And then two nights later like, oh shit, fifty Like 611 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:06,320 Speaker 1: what is going on? 612 00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:09,160 Speaker 3: Then a couple of games later, AI dropped another fifty 613 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:12,720 Speaker 3: pieces Like we knew in the moment that this series 614 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:17,360 Speaker 3: was special, Like this is exciting, This is exactly what 615 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:21,080 Speaker 3: you know, we as NBA fans wanted to see and 616 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:25,440 Speaker 3: even I would love to know like what NBA brass 617 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:29,240 Speaker 3: and upper levels of NBA management were thinking about that series, 618 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:33,480 Speaker 3: especially as Alan Iverson performed at the height that he did, 619 00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:36,920 Speaker 3: because this is you know, he's the counterculture hero of 620 00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:40,200 Speaker 3: the NBA. You know, he's the MVP, the All Star 621 00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:43,400 Speaker 3: Game MVP, but he's a guy who is you know, 622 00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:48,040 Speaker 3: had so much labeled on him, thrown again against him stereotype, 623 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:52,320 Speaker 3: you know, against his against his favorite. It's just like 624 00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:54,280 Speaker 3: they threw so much of the guy and the guy 625 00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:57,680 Speaker 3: still performs like this. I would love to have been 626 00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:01,400 Speaker 3: a fly on the wall and those you know, no 627 00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:04,880 Speaker 3: watching the games with the upper level of NBA brass. 628 00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:10,600 Speaker 3: But in the moment myself, I'm thinking, like I just 629 00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:12,720 Speaker 3: wanted to go seven, Like if you give me seven 630 00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:15,720 Speaker 3: of this, I'll be great. And loan and behold it 631 00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:20,240 Speaker 3: went seven. Now, I did not understand the conversations that 632 00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:22,880 Speaker 3: were gonna come with that game seven, but I'm sure 633 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:24,040 Speaker 3: we're about to get into that. 634 00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:26,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, we're about to get into that. I'm gonna preface 635 00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:28,240 Speaker 2: it and then I'd love to love for you to 636 00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:31,000 Speaker 2: take it from there. So we're going into game seven. 637 00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:33,560 Speaker 2: Vince Carter decides the day of the game to go 638 00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:36,680 Speaker 2: to his college graduation from North Carolina. He had promised 639 00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:38,880 Speaker 2: his mother and his family that he would walk at 640 00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:42,520 Speaker 2: graduation after only spending three years at North Carolina and 641 00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:49,640 Speaker 2: lo and behold. This causes a tsunami of outrage with 642 00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:52,479 Speaker 2: the media, with the talking heads of the NBA and 643 00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:55,960 Speaker 2: even some players on his team saying, you know, this star, 644 00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:59,440 Speaker 2: a star player, Why is he going to his graduation 645 00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:01,680 Speaker 2: in the day before the biggest game of his in 646 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:04,520 Speaker 2: our lives? So that's that's the scene. I would love 647 00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:06,440 Speaker 2: for you to take from there and just discuss sort 648 00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:09,040 Speaker 2: of the implications of this and how this mirrored the 649 00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:10,760 Speaker 2: discourse that was going on in society. 650 00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:16,239 Speaker 3: For one, I think it needs to be stated just 651 00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:21,560 Speaker 3: how much of a role education and Vince's parents, and 652 00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:24,600 Speaker 3: you know, specifically his mom played in his life. 653 00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:25,400 Speaker 1: Like he. 654 00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:29,560 Speaker 3: Not calling him a mama's boy by any stretched the imagination, 655 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:32,040 Speaker 3: even though I don't think that's a negative term, because 656 00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:33,480 Speaker 3: I consider myself a mama's boy. 657 00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:34,960 Speaker 1: But like he made a. 658 00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:38,240 Speaker 3: Promise to his mother that like, yo, I will graduate, 659 00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:40,680 Speaker 3: and I'm going to hold that promise for you. Now. 660 00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:42,640 Speaker 3: Some people say, well, you could have walked in the summer, 661 00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:45,320 Speaker 3: or you could have could have done this, but now 662 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:48,560 Speaker 3: he wanted to walk with I guess his class, and 663 00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:51,200 Speaker 3: so he flew down to Chapel Hill. 664 00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:53,160 Speaker 1: I believe the ceremony was at. 665 00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:55,400 Speaker 3: Like nine in the morning, and he was back in 666 00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:58,440 Speaker 3: Philly where Game seven was going to be. He was 667 00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:01,920 Speaker 3: back in Philly by noon, so he didn't even misshoot around. Now, 668 00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:05,680 Speaker 3: when I wrote the article that I did last year, 669 00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:07,360 Speaker 3: you know, I had a couple of you know, NBA 670 00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:10,480 Speaker 3: players reach out to me, none a in a combative 671 00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:11,359 Speaker 3: or negative sense. 672 00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:12,960 Speaker 1: Some agreed, some didn't. 673 00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:16,200 Speaker 3: It was some told me, like yo, even twenty years later, 674 00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:19,000 Speaker 3: Vince still shouldn't he could have walked at another time. 675 00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:22,399 Speaker 3: You don't leave on game seven, and you're the star 676 00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:23,400 Speaker 3: player on that team. 677 00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:25,640 Speaker 1: So I've never been on an NBA team, so I. 678 00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:28,480 Speaker 3: Can't sit here and go back and forth with, you know, 679 00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:31,480 Speaker 3: a guy who's actually been in those trenches. And but 680 00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:35,960 Speaker 3: me personally, I didn't have an issue with it. I 681 00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:39,080 Speaker 3: still don't have an issue with it because I would 682 00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:41,759 Speaker 3: have probably done the same thing. I probably would have. 683 00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:43,920 Speaker 3: Now some people may look at me funny for that, 684 00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:47,040 Speaker 3: but I probably would have. But I think when you 685 00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:52,000 Speaker 3: look at the numbers that at that point in time, 686 00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:53,920 Speaker 3: and I believe it was at that point in time, 687 00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:59,239 Speaker 3: only forty two percent of Division one men's basketball players 688 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:02,560 Speaker 3: awaited from college, and when you look at for black players, 689 00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:05,040 Speaker 3: it was even lower. It was thirty four percent. So 690 00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:07,959 Speaker 3: whether Vince Carter realized what he was doing at the time, 691 00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:10,040 Speaker 3: to try to bucket that trend. 692 00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:10,560 Speaker 1: I don't know. 693 00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:13,360 Speaker 3: I don't think Vince Carter realized what he was doing 694 00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:16,719 Speaker 3: at that moment. He just wanted to graduate. He made 695 00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:18,840 Speaker 3: a promise to his family. He wanted to fulfill that. 696 00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:25,160 Speaker 3: But yeah, it was it was, man. He was tore 697 00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:27,680 Speaker 3: apart in the media for that. They called him selfish, 698 00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:30,240 Speaker 3: they called him arrogant. In his way, it's crazy because 699 00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:32,360 Speaker 3: like you call somebody ergant for going to get their 700 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:36,120 Speaker 3: college degree, you know, you know, he's going to get 701 00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:42,520 Speaker 3: his college degree. So he was, and honestly, it put 702 00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:45,960 Speaker 3: Vince in a situation where like he had to ball 703 00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:47,080 Speaker 3: out in Game seven. 704 00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:48,880 Speaker 1: He had to because. 705 00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:53,160 Speaker 3: The game wasn't until seven o'clock that night, so he 706 00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:55,520 Speaker 3: was back in Philly for at least seven eight hours 707 00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:59,120 Speaker 3: before tip off. It wasn't like it wasn't like, uh, 708 00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:03,120 Speaker 3: he's showed up like at six thirty thirty minutes before 709 00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:06,200 Speaker 3: tip off saying let's go. But yeah, that that that 710 00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:09,400 Speaker 3: caused a huge fire storm. And you know, in a 711 00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:12,680 Speaker 3: society where we try to paint the emphasis on education 712 00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:15,520 Speaker 3: and you know, getting your degree and things of that nature, 713 00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:18,919 Speaker 3: Vince was. He was ridiculed for it and I still 714 00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:21,480 Speaker 3: think to this day when people bring up that kind 715 00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:24,680 Speaker 3: of that it's kind of like a lost memory in 716 00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:28,560 Speaker 3: the conversation of Vince Carter. But uh, it's it's a 717 00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:33,200 Speaker 3: very important one because it basically showed it opens up 718 00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:38,560 Speaker 3: a door into in a Pandora's box of different conversations, 719 00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:38,840 Speaker 3: you know. 720 00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:43,320 Speaker 2: So, yeah, well that that game seven, he plays forty 721 00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:45,960 Speaker 2: eight minutes, and not forty seven minutes and thirty seconds. 722 00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:49,640 Speaker 2: He plays forty eight minutes. Iverson also plays forty eight minutes. 723 00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:51,920 Speaker 2: Vince goes six or eighteen from the field. He has 724 00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:54,920 Speaker 2: twenty points. Iverson goes eight for twenty seven from the field. 725 00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:57,240 Speaker 2: So I don't know what Iverson was doing the night before, 726 00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:01,120 Speaker 2: but they both they both struggle, and it all comes 727 00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:03,359 Speaker 2: down to the last shot where Vince gets a look, 728 00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:07,360 Speaker 2: a decent look, and he misses, and the Sixers advance 729 00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:10,560 Speaker 2: and the Raptors go home. Iverson goes on to defeat 730 00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:14,920 Speaker 2: the Bucks in seven games in the Eastern Conference Finals. 731 00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:18,400 Speaker 2: An amazing series, an incredible series. Don't bring that one 732 00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:22,080 Speaker 2: up to Bucks fans, because yeah, it will quickly point 733 00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:25,680 Speaker 2: to the referees there. And then he becomes immortalized in 734 00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:28,120 Speaker 2: an NBA Finals where they only win one game, but 735 00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:31,680 Speaker 2: that one game is against the Lakers team who lost 736 00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:35,000 Speaker 2: one game to the Sixers and only lost one game 737 00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:38,960 Speaker 2: in the entire playoffs. So the dust kind of settles 738 00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:41,080 Speaker 2: and then the aftermath. We were talking a little bit before, 739 00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:44,680 Speaker 2: but now the player is really able to reach the 740 00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:48,400 Speaker 2: same heights throughout their career as they did in this 741 00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:53,880 Speaker 2: seven game series. Iverson never makes the conference finals for 742 00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:57,080 Speaker 2: the rest of his career, Vince never makes the playoffs 743 00:37:57,080 --> 00:37:58,759 Speaker 2: in Toronto for the rest of his career, has a 744 00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:01,600 Speaker 2: few moments in New Jersey, has a moment in Orlando. 745 00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:06,120 Speaker 2: But this is really when we look back the apex 746 00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:08,960 Speaker 2: of both Alan Iverson and Vince Carter, two players that 747 00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:12,319 Speaker 2: still are on our Instagram and Twitter feeds damn near 748 00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:15,200 Speaker 2: every day, and players that people still look up to. 749 00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:19,279 Speaker 2: So just looking at this series in the aftermath, Uh, 750 00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:21,759 Speaker 2: what are your what are your closing thoughts from this 751 00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:24,359 Speaker 2: series with Alan Iverson and Vince Carter. 752 00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:28,040 Speaker 1: I mean you mentioned it a little bit earlier to me. 753 00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:32,719 Speaker 3: For me personally, it is my favorite non final series 754 00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:37,400 Speaker 3: of all time. For one, we spoke about the fireworks 755 00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:39,560 Speaker 3: that happened on the court, but also I believe a 756 00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:43,680 Speaker 3: lot of conversations that that revolved around Alan Iverson, that 757 00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:47,680 Speaker 3: revolved around Vince Carter were so important then, but they're 758 00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:50,520 Speaker 3: even more important now to talk about as we as 759 00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:55,799 Speaker 3: we've done over the course of this conversation. But I 760 00:38:55,840 --> 00:39:00,279 Speaker 3: think a lot of times, man, as basketball fans, sometimes 761 00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:03,280 Speaker 3: we can take for granted guys like you know, Michael 762 00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:07,400 Speaker 3: Jordan who just got there almost at will whenever he 763 00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:10,239 Speaker 3: wanted to, like Lebron making ten straight finals. You know 764 00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:14,200 Speaker 3: kd Do being able to do what he's what he's doing, 765 00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:16,799 Speaker 3: Janni's being able to do what he's doing, Like these 766 00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:20,799 Speaker 3: are all time great players, but like the window for 767 00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:25,080 Speaker 3: championships for ninety nine point nine percent of players who 768 00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:28,480 Speaker 3: ever come into the league is either non existent or 769 00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:30,600 Speaker 3: it's microscopic to begin with. 770 00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:35,040 Speaker 1: So when we when we talk about Iverson. 771 00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:36,520 Speaker 3: In two thousand and one and Bens in two thousand 772 00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:39,319 Speaker 3: and one, and these are the apex of you know, 773 00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:41,440 Speaker 3: their careers in terms of what they were able to 774 00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:45,960 Speaker 3: accomplish in the postseason. It's not necessarily it's not a 775 00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:48,680 Speaker 3: knock on them at all, but it is a reminder 776 00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:53,520 Speaker 3: of like, yo, these these paths are not guaranteed, and 777 00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:56,920 Speaker 3: sometimes they close just as quickly as they open up. 778 00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:00,440 Speaker 2: You know, go ahead, I'm glad that you brought that 779 00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:03,200 Speaker 2: up because even today we see these players like a Jamaran, 780 00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:08,719 Speaker 2: a Jokichi Jannis, and they're they're so incredible and so exciting. 781 00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:11,919 Speaker 2: But yet we have all these people continuing to debate, Oh, 782 00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:13,719 Speaker 2: he's better than him. No, you know he's good, but 783 00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:15,320 Speaker 2: he's not as good as him. And it's like, yo, 784 00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:19,000 Speaker 2: just enjoy what you are watching because as you as 785 00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:21,720 Speaker 2: you said, you don't know if you'll ever see this again. 786 00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:23,840 Speaker 2: Things happen like that in the NBA. 787 00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:27,120 Speaker 3: You don't, man, And it's just like when we look 788 00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:30,719 Speaker 3: at the NBA now, like we're spoiled, bro, Like there's 789 00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:34,600 Speaker 3: so many great players. Like obviously you look at somebody 790 00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:37,359 Speaker 3: like Lebron obviously the Lakers season has gone to hell 791 00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:39,839 Speaker 3: in a hand basket, but like, this dude's thirty seven 792 00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:43,759 Speaker 3: years old, and had the Lakers been a top five 793 00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:46,000 Speaker 3: team in the West, this dude would be right in 794 00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:48,720 Speaker 3: the thick of the MVP conversation. So we see guys 795 00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:50,760 Speaker 3: like that, but then we see guys like Jahn Morant, 796 00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:54,640 Speaker 3: we see Luca, we see Joker, we see Yanni's MB 797 00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:57,880 Speaker 3: so like there is an embarrassment of riches in the 798 00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:00,200 Speaker 3: league and there will be for a long time. Thing 799 00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:03,320 Speaker 3: to remember about that is there's an embarrassment of riches. 800 00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:05,920 Speaker 3: But not everybody's going to hit the lottery, which is 801 00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:07,520 Speaker 3: winning the NBA Finals. 802 00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:10,200 Speaker 1: They're going to be several players from this generation. 803 00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:13,200 Speaker 3: Who don't advance to a conference finals, who don't advance 804 00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:16,280 Speaker 3: to an NBA Finals, and don't win an NBA Finals, 805 00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:19,040 Speaker 3: because I mean, we know what the history is. Like 806 00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:21,040 Speaker 3: one of the most popular stats in the NBA is 807 00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:23,320 Speaker 3: like since nineteen eighty I don't know what it is 808 00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:26,600 Speaker 3: right now, what only like thirteen teams something like that. 809 00:41:26,719 --> 00:41:28,040 Speaker 1: I don't know the exact number, but you know what 810 00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:28,560 Speaker 1: I'm saying. 811 00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:31,520 Speaker 3: So when I look at when I look at Iverson, 812 00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:33,560 Speaker 3: when I look at Vince Carter, you know, I've had 813 00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:34,640 Speaker 3: to come to this realization. 814 00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:35,799 Speaker 1: It's like, Yo, it's not. 815 00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:39,680 Speaker 3: A disappointment that they never got back to that level 816 00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:42,960 Speaker 3: of success in the postseason or anything of that nature. 817 00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:46,839 Speaker 1: It's just the reality of things. And you know, man, 818 00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:48,319 Speaker 1: like I. 819 00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:51,880 Speaker 3: Think about Iverson like this, and you'll have fun with 820 00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:57,040 Speaker 3: this game too, Like who was Iverson's second best teammate. 821 00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:01,719 Speaker 2: I mean, I mean, so they had who are you 822 00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:05,160 Speaker 2: saying Tumble ever ever in Philly or just this year? 823 00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:06,040 Speaker 3: Uh? 824 00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:09,440 Speaker 1: Well no, no, no, ever during as time in Philly. 825 00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:12,799 Speaker 2: I mean, uh he had Jerry Stackhouse early on that 826 00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:15,719 Speaker 2: didn't work out. He had Larry Hughes that didn't really 827 00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:19,000 Speaker 2: work out. I mean Mtumbo, who was old. But I mean, no, 828 00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:21,440 Speaker 2: you're right, it's even Vincent Toronto. 829 00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:22,200 Speaker 1: Yeah. 830 00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:27,000 Speaker 3: Now, I do always wonder what could have happened for 831 00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:30,040 Speaker 3: Vincent Toronto of T mac levern never left. I understand 832 00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:31,840 Speaker 3: why t mac left. He wanted his own team. I 833 00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:34,919 Speaker 3: get that, but like that, that could have been something else. 834 00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:41,600 Speaker 3: But for Ai, his second best teammate in mys was probably, 835 00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:44,480 Speaker 3: like you said, Mutumbo, but Mu Tumbo was aging at 836 00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:49,080 Speaker 3: that point and m Tumble was never an offensive powerhouse. 837 00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:52,400 Speaker 3: Now on the defensive end, he was phenomenal. He's a 838 00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:55,319 Speaker 3: Hall of Famer for that reason. Stackhouse just didn't work 839 00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:57,759 Speaker 3: because I think they kind of played basically the same game. 840 00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:00,680 Speaker 3: Now I want to play this, you can always play 841 00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:02,480 Speaker 3: the what UF game. Who knows how it would have 842 00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:05,960 Speaker 3: panned out. But in nineteen ninety eight, the Philadelphia seventy 843 00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:09,400 Speaker 3: six ers draft Larry Hughes with the eighth pick. Do 844 00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:11,160 Speaker 3: you know who the ninth and tenth picks were? 845 00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:13,719 Speaker 1: Uh? 846 00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:15,040 Speaker 2: Was it Dirk Nowitzki? 847 00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:16,839 Speaker 1: And uh? 848 00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:24,280 Speaker 3: He was another NBA seventy five played in the same 849 00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:28,839 Speaker 3: division as Philly, Paul Pierce. Yeah, jeez, So you draft 850 00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:31,319 Speaker 3: Larry Hughes who had a solid NBA career and I 851 00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:36,840 Speaker 3: like Larry Hughes, but no comparison. Okay, So let's say Philly, 852 00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:39,839 Speaker 3: in an alternate universe, drafts Paul Pierce. Maybe it ends 853 00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:42,080 Speaker 3: up the same way it does with Jerry Stackhops the 854 00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:45,359 Speaker 3: interesting one and all this. What if Philly takes Dirk 855 00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:50,279 Speaker 3: and Whitsky Iverson for all the knots against him, he 856 00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:51,680 Speaker 3: you know, he shot too much? 857 00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:52,880 Speaker 1: Was this? That? And the third? 858 00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:56,120 Speaker 3: He was a great playmaker as well. He could get 859 00:43:56,160 --> 00:44:00,359 Speaker 3: people involved. Can you imagine a world where Iverson and 860 00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:05,000 Speaker 3: he Iverson has Dirt as a teammate, like. 861 00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:06,759 Speaker 2: It would it would It would be crazy. I mean 862 00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:10,240 Speaker 2: it would have to be. It would have to be championships. 863 00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:14,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, and and and in a perfect world, dirt still 864 00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:18,200 Speaker 3: becomes dirt. But but AI doesn't feel that that stress 865 00:44:18,239 --> 00:44:20,000 Speaker 3: is like, I gotta go out and get thirty five 866 00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:22,160 Speaker 3: every night because I got a guy on my team 867 00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:23,880 Speaker 3: who could go out and get forty if I need 868 00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:27,600 Speaker 3: him to. And you know, so it just maybe Iverson 869 00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:29,640 Speaker 3: never leaves Philly. If that's the case, maybe he doesn't 870 00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:32,440 Speaker 3: get traded to Denver, or you know, the end of 871 00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:36,759 Speaker 3: his career isn't as tough to watch as as as 872 00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:38,759 Speaker 3: it happened. But you know, it's just just one of 873 00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:40,040 Speaker 3: those things, man, we don't know. 874 00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:41,080 Speaker 1: We just don't know. 875 00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:44,239 Speaker 3: The chips fall you take, you take one player over 876 00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:47,239 Speaker 3: another instead of another, like you just don't know. Man. 877 00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:50,280 Speaker 3: I look back on that all the time, especially especially 878 00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:51,480 Speaker 3: with AI's career. 879 00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:54,520 Speaker 2: You mentioned, just like the influx of talent that we've had. 880 00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:58,160 Speaker 2: But I think another key difference is just how much 881 00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:01,600 Speaker 2: each move in the front office is analyzed and scrutinized. 882 00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:06,479 Speaker 2: And I wonder, and additionally, just with this player empowerment era, 883 00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:09,920 Speaker 2: how quickly would Alan Iverson or Vince Carter, how much 884 00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:12,759 Speaker 2: quicker would they have basically gave the front office and ultimatum, 885 00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:15,439 Speaker 2: get me help or I'm not going to play here. 886 00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:18,439 Speaker 2: I think that wasn't that never happened in the early 887 00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:20,839 Speaker 2: two thousands, and that would have happened. But yeah, man, 888 00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:23,320 Speaker 2: I think, uh yeah, the player powerment. 889 00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:28,120 Speaker 3: Had it started a decade earlier instead of twenty ten, 890 00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:32,440 Speaker 3: which we largely associate with the decision, had it started 891 00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:35,160 Speaker 3: in two thousand instead of twenty ten, who knows? 892 00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:40,080 Speaker 1: Man like that, that is fascinating to think about. That 893 00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:41,280 Speaker 1: is fascinating to think about. 894 00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:44,520 Speaker 2: Well, I think just leaving the listeners on on your 895 00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:47,560 Speaker 2: point and our point that as you watch these playoffs 896 00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:51,000 Speaker 2: and as the NBA enjoy the star players while you 897 00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:52,840 Speaker 2: have them, you do not know how long that is 898 00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:56,600 Speaker 2: going to last. Yep, stop comparing them to other players. 899 00:45:56,760 --> 00:45:59,360 Speaker 2: Whoever wins MVP is going to win MVP. The voters 900 00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:01,080 Speaker 2: are going to decide. And that's not a knock on 901 00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:03,680 Speaker 2: whoever doesn't win MVP. It's not a knock on who 902 00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:07,200 Speaker 2: gets bounced in the first round, who has an unfortunate 903 00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:09,279 Speaker 2: injury to their team. There are so many things that 904 00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:12,320 Speaker 2: have to go your way to win a championship, and 905 00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:15,920 Speaker 2: that doesn't mean that you are better than the next player. 906 00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:19,840 Speaker 2: It's a subjective conversation. In my opinion, it's like debating 907 00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:23,640 Speaker 2: what your favorite song is. I think basketball basketball players 908 00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:26,319 Speaker 2: are artists and their games are unique and you have 909 00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:29,319 Speaker 2: to enjoy what they bring to the table and just 910 00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:32,120 Speaker 2: what a spectacle they are. So I think that this 911 00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:35,160 Speaker 2: was just an amazing conversation. It's timely with the Playoffs 912 00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:39,759 Speaker 2: coming up and we recently passed the twentieth anniversary last year. 913 00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:44,000 Speaker 2: I would urge and recommend everybody listening to go and 914 00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:47,000 Speaker 2: read your article on the Playoff series. I will link 915 00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:50,360 Speaker 2: it on the page. But this was an amazing conversation 916 00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:53,680 Speaker 2: two of the most iconic players ever and will remain 917 00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:57,160 Speaker 2: to be the most iconic players ever. Justin thank you man, 918 00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:01,880 Speaker 2: any closing thoughts in any where you want to direct 919 00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:04,719 Speaker 2: the listeners and just talk about what you're working on now. 920 00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:07,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, I just want to say thank you so much 921 00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:08,880 Speaker 3: for having me on here, Like, if you ever want 922 00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:11,640 Speaker 3: to talk about another Playoff series or anything else do 923 00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:14,879 Speaker 3: These are the type of conversations I've just been having 924 00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:17,520 Speaker 3: with my boys for years. So it's great to have 925 00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:22,040 Speaker 3: it on a platform as influential is yours. So everybody 926 00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:24,040 Speaker 3: who's going to listen to this, watch this or whatever, 927 00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:27,279 Speaker 3: like I do, hope you understand like this was a 928 00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:30,799 Speaker 3: great series. But these two young men, they had a 929 00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:32,640 Speaker 3: lot on their shoulders at that point in time too, 930 00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:33,320 Speaker 3: they were. 931 00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:33,839 Speaker 1: Carrying a lot. 932 00:47:33,880 --> 00:47:37,719 Speaker 3: So when you hear people say, yeah, well, Alan Iverson 933 00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:40,640 Speaker 3: took a lot of bumps and bruises, so players today 934 00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:43,279 Speaker 3: can have the freedom to express themselves the way that 935 00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:45,239 Speaker 3: they do, that is actually very. 936 00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:48,000 Speaker 1: Very, very true. And so. 937 00:47:49,640 --> 00:47:53,279 Speaker 3: Alan Iverson is a trailblazer, and I don't meet no 938 00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:55,880 Speaker 3: pun intended with that. He is a trailblazer in every 939 00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:58,600 Speaker 3: sense of the word. And there's a reason, there's a 940 00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:02,120 Speaker 3: reason why you see players younger than him always speak 941 00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:05,800 Speaker 3: of him with this deep, deep, almost religious reference, and 942 00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:11,040 Speaker 3: it's deserved and Iverson gives that love right back. 943 00:48:11,160 --> 00:48:12,239 Speaker 1: So I do want to. 944 00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:14,000 Speaker 3: Say that, but yeah, go back and watch the series's 945 00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:14,960 Speaker 3: on YouTube. 946 00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:17,960 Speaker 1: You'll be gladly, gladly entertained. 947 00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:21,960 Speaker 3: But for me, yeah, man, it's April first, so we're 948 00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:24,960 Speaker 3: within a month, less than a month and a half. 949 00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:27,120 Speaker 3: My book, I don't know if you can see it, 950 00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:31,160 Speaker 3: but my book right here, it's a biography of Biggie 951 00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:33,799 Speaker 3: Small's Biggie It was all a dream bigg in the 952 00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:37,279 Speaker 3: world that made him. Please pre order that anywhere you 953 00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:40,279 Speaker 3: want to get your books, Amazon, Barnes and Noble, and 954 00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:42,120 Speaker 3: you don't want to get it from an indie bookstore, 955 00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:44,839 Speaker 3: whatever you want to do, comes out May tenth. I'm 956 00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:47,560 Speaker 3: super excited about it. And speaking of Iverson, there actually 957 00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:51,439 Speaker 3: is a part in there about Alan Iverson about well 958 00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:53,560 Speaker 3: we're big, and Alan Iverson met up a couple of 959 00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:57,080 Speaker 3: weeks before he was killed out in LA. So it's 960 00:48:57,160 --> 00:48:59,560 Speaker 3: that I got some other NBA players in here, Shaq, 961 00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:00,359 Speaker 3: grt hell. 962 00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:05,279 Speaker 1: So yeah, hope you pick it up, please preorder well. 963 00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:07,759 Speaker 2: We'll definitely check it out. We'll also see you on 964 00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:11,320 Speaker 2: All Around the Horn. We'll read your stories on ESPN 965 00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:15,279 Speaker 2: and The Undefeated JT Man again, appreciate your time and 966 00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:16,480 Speaker 2: we'll be in touch. 967 00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:18,080 Speaker 1: Thank you man, Thank you man. 968 00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:22,560 Speaker 2: That was Forgotten Seasons with Justin Tinsley on the Vince 969 00:49:22,640 --> 00:49:26,080 Speaker 2: Carter Versus Allen Iverson two thousand and one Eastern Semis. 970 00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:29,080 Speaker 2: Thank you guys for listening. I hope you enjoyed it. 971 00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:31,640 Speaker 2: Drop a rating and a review if you liked what 972 00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:34,280 Speaker 2: you just listened to. I will catch you next week. 973 00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:35,520 Speaker 2: Until then, peace,