Speaker 1: Of the law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies.
Speaker 3: These episodes are based on. These are our stories, done done,
Speaker 3: What's up? I'm gonna say what's up instead? What's up?
Speaker 3: I'm Lisa, Hi, I'm Kara.
Speaker 1: And this is That's Messed Up an SVU podcast.
Speaker 2: Every week we talk about an episode of SVU the
Speaker 2: true crimeate's based on, and then we have a guest
Speaker 2: from the episode. And today is just the same. Oh
Speaker 2: my god, I just looked at my clock and it's
Speaker 2: eleven eleven. This is a good sign for everything.
Speaker 3: Wow, this intro is going to change lives every yain.
Speaker 3: I love it.
Speaker 2: Hey, and we had an eventful week because Real Housewives
Speaker 2: of New York came back.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, Yes, we watched together and yeah, the
Speaker 1: girls are back. One third of the cast is sober
Speaker 1: right now, so we'll see where that journey takes us.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was I too high. I don't remember anything
Speaker 2: except Leah trying to be a jew.
Speaker 3: That was. There was a lot of ad.
Speaker 1: When it was over, you said, they're so cringey, and
Speaker 1: there is just like a lot of cringe in the
Speaker 1: whole episode, like Leah becoming a Jew Number one was
Speaker 1: like wow, like just a cringe home run right out
Speaker 1: of the park first inning.
Speaker 2: No, the moment you said cringe, I imagine Sonya talking
Speaker 2: about the diversity of the Koi fish.
Speaker 1: In her pond, literally to a black woman, was like,
Speaker 1: you want to talk about diversity, Look at all the
Speaker 1: different kind of fish I have in my Koi pond.
Speaker 3: Like I was like, Sonya, no, it's gonna be bad.
Speaker 2: The race stuff's gonna get worse and worse, like I'm
Speaker 2: terrified for what's about to happen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I was spinning in my body. I also
Speaker 1: I like the new girl Ebony. There's a new girl
Speaker 1: in Ebani. I like her, but I did not like
Speaker 1: her saying I'm old. And then I googled her age
Speaker 1: and she's thirty seven. I'm like, you're not old like
Speaker 1: like she was. Actually she was too old to have
Speaker 1: a kid. I was like, I know, but.
Speaker 2: You can you can know that you're young and still
Speaker 2: feel old, like I know thirty three is not old,
Speaker 2: but I do feel like, oh no, I feel like
Speaker 2: that TikTok song, like I don't know. Oh no, I do,
Speaker 2: I just don't realize it. I still feel like I'm
Speaker 2: like twenty five. I feel like I'm smarter and lessons, but.
Speaker 3: I always feel like I'm thirty.
Speaker 1: I mean I kind of like, oh wait, I never
Speaker 1: remember how old I am, and I'm like, I'm about
Speaker 1: in my I'm about thirty, I'm in my early thirties,
Speaker 1: like I always think that.
Speaker 3: But alas that ship has sailed.
Speaker 2: Oh and also this happens to you all the time food.
Speaker 2: Whenever we order food, it doesn't come for you. They
Speaker 2: just forget about you.
Speaker 1: We order food and we pick it up and every
Speaker 1: meal is in there except for my meal. That's what happens.
Speaker 1: Like the food is there, they made an attempt. But
Speaker 1: and it always happens when we're going to our friend
Speaker 1: Lauren's house. Like one time we ordered food, like five
Speaker 1: of us and just mine was the only meal missing.
Speaker 1: And like the delivery guy goes, oh yeah, they said
Speaker 1: they're out of that. No one called us nothing. And
Speaker 1: then last night it happened and this guy had run
Speaker 1: my food out to my car for me. He was
Speaker 1: so nice because I called and I was like, I'm
Speaker 1: nine months pregnant. Can you just bring it out to
Speaker 1: my car. I'm right here, I'm like two steps out
Speaker 1: of the restaurant, and he was like so sweet, and
Speaker 1: then they.
Speaker 3: Just forgot my food completely.
Speaker 1: And then I had to go pick it up. I
Speaker 1: was happy to do it. Yes, she was such a
Speaker 1: good friend. She picked it up for me because I
Speaker 1: was like, just the idea of waddling back to my car,
Speaker 1: it's just not happening right now. I can't do it.
Speaker 3: I didn't mind any of it.
Speaker 2: It was a pleasure, except I did then have to
Speaker 2: chat with the people because they they were trying to
Speaker 2: make it up to me, you know, like I care,
Speaker 2: and they were like, oh my god. And then we
Speaker 2: had to talk. He started talking about when his mom
Speaker 2: was pregnant with him. She was in law school. He
Speaker 2: has two sisters. I mean, I really got to know everyone.
Speaker 3: Welcome to my life.
Speaker 1: When you physically present as pregnant, people just come up
Speaker 1: to you and tell you nine antecdotes a.
Speaker 3: Day about like, oh my god.
Speaker 2: So the woman at CBS was like, you're having a boy,
Speaker 2: Like we care what you think. But I went to
Speaker 2: CBS this weekend and I wore a cute dress from
Speaker 2: I got in Australia, Melbourne, what's up? And she goes,
Speaker 2: Oh my god, that dress looks so comfortable, and I
Speaker 2: said thank you, And then I'm like, that's not a
Speaker 2: fucking compliment, that's the what.
Speaker 3: Are you saying to me?
Speaker 2: So I'm already having enemies in the neighborhood.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the CBS lady.
Speaker 1: She was like, she goes, well, I know, amazing people
Speaker 1: have boys, and you seem like a really amazing person.
Speaker 1: I'm like, from the two bottles of Adville, I'm buying okay,
Speaker 1: bitch Like, but also, just before anybody sends me a
Speaker 1: message to Advil's from my husband.
Speaker 3: I know pregnant wmen are not allowed to take Advil disclaimer.
Speaker 3: It's so crazy you have to do all that. What
Speaker 3: else is going on?
Speaker 1: My daughter continues to be obsessed with Lisa. There was
Speaker 1: a man coming to do work on my house and
Speaker 1: his name is Amador, and he was really nice.
Speaker 3: In the morning, when.
Speaker 1: She woke up, she was like, where's Amador? And I
Speaker 1: was like, he went home. She goes, he went to house,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, I don't know what you think Lisa's
Speaker 1: up to. But apparently lots of local men are stopping
Speaker 1: in and out.
Speaker 2: I love the name Amador. It's like such a good name.
Speaker 2: I'm obsessed. I keep saying Amador. Roses in bed saying Lisa,
Speaker 2: and I'm in bed saying Amador to nobody. No, I
Speaker 2: this is like backwards as a person that does love crime,
Speaker 2: it is weird. I avoided the movie Zodiac like the Plague.
Speaker 2: I refuse to watch it for like fifteen years. And
Speaker 2: I watched it on my flight from New York to
Speaker 2: LA and it was good.
Speaker 3: I liked it.
Speaker 1: That's so funny that Delta just keeps Zodiac on like
Speaker 1: it never gets rotated out, like I watched Zodiac on Delta.
Speaker 3: Four years ago.
Speaker 1: I mean I watched it when it originally came out, too,
Speaker 1: but like I rewatched it. That is like I don't
Speaker 1: really like rewatching movies that much. I don't really watch
Speaker 1: movies again. Really, yeah, I just don't. I mean, like,
Speaker 1: if something's on and I've seen it, like with friends, sure,
Speaker 1: but I'm not like, oh, I'm gonna sit and rewatch
Speaker 1: a movie that I've already seen when there's so many
Speaker 1: movies I haven't seen.
Speaker 3: I think that's my opposite.
Speaker 2: But I heard my niece read me once and she said,
Speaker 2: people with anxiety like to watch the same things over
Speaker 2: and over.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I was like, all right, I guess, but no, especially
Speaker 2: on planes. I watched The Favorite maybe on twelve separate flights.
Speaker 2: I watched Inger Goes West over and over like two
Speaker 2: and from places I would be watching Inger and Goes West. Yeah,
Speaker 2: adult and then clueless is always on Delta flight?
Speaker 3: Well also, I can't believe this. I did want to.
Speaker 2: Talk about this, but we're already Delta. Miley Cyrus flew
Speaker 2: Delta this week. I need to know is this for
Speaker 2: the environment? Did she get paid? Is this a sponsorship?
Speaker 2: Did she just need a last minute flight? She's worth
Speaker 2: over one hundred million dollars, you know, she put flies
Speaker 2: private all the time.
Speaker 1: Why is she on that Delta flight to go do
Speaker 1: SNL because SNL was paying for it? Yeah, but like
Speaker 1: she could just pay for her jet herself. Yeah, that's weird.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: But she was taking selfies in the bathroom and she
Speaker 2: had like the divider like she was like living it up,
Speaker 2: like she was taking.
Speaker 3: Photos like we would be at the zoo.
Speaker 1: She was like, look like she because it's not like
Speaker 1: and it's not like it's last minute you know, no,
Speaker 1: it's not last minute.
Speaker 3: She was booked like she we knew she was doing
Speaker 3: SNL forever.
Speaker 1: Oh god, elon Musk Anyway, I will say there are
Speaker 1: certain movies that if I flip by them on TV,
Speaker 1: I will keep watching them, such as Mean Girls, when
Speaker 1: Harry met Sally. There's a few that I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'll just watch this from wherever it is. But Devil
Speaker 1: War's Prada I'll always watch again. But yeah, like if
Speaker 1: I'm sitting down to watch a movie, I'm not going
Speaker 1: to flip a new one an old one on. But
Speaker 1: Zodiac is a good one. What did you think of it?
Speaker 1: I liked it.
Speaker 2: I mean it is hard to watch now with a
Speaker 2: different brain where it's like, truly the women are just
Speaker 2: like wives at home that have maybe four lines, and
Speaker 2: then there's it's just a bunch of white dudes. It's
Speaker 2: like you couldn't throw in like one Asian detective. It's
Speaker 2: just like it's hard to watch. It was it was
Speaker 2: kind of avang even though I liked it and Jake
Speaker 2: Jillenhall's hot, I already actually don't remember who the other
Speaker 2: people were because they all look the same to me. Oh,
Speaker 2: Robert Downey's an alcoholic, Okay, I remember that, Like I
Speaker 2: don't even remember.
Speaker 3: It's just so wild that we've not caught him.
Speaker 1: I mean, even though the movie makes it seem like
Speaker 1: it is this one guy, like it's just where. But
Speaker 1: if you go to our Instagram, I'll put it in
Speaker 1: the mention at all highlight. We posted another account put
Speaker 1: up the all the serial killers and what their signs are,
Speaker 1: and it's so many virgos like Lisa and I are
Speaker 1: shock a little bit by how many burgos. I think
Speaker 1: it's just because burgos are very organized. Then that's why
Speaker 1: they can serial kill, because they don't get caught for
Speaker 1: a while.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: Speaking of Dexter's coming back, baby, they winked, winked, winked.
Speaker 2: I can't wait. I saw the little trailer. He looks
Speaker 2: as hot as ever. I have my Dexter badge hanging signed.
Speaker 2: I mean, I can't wait to see it. He's an
Speaker 2: organized killer for sure.
Speaker 1: Well, speaking of an organized killer, like but I do complaint,
Speaker 1: I have one.
Speaker 3: I have to.
Speaker 2: I have to bring this up. So I'm living across
Speaker 2: the street from a school, which I like. I like
Speaker 2: the sounds of recess or like soccer games. It reminds
Speaker 2: me of life is, you know, simple and great. The
Speaker 2: school across the street from me, Blair's kids bop NonStop
Speaker 2: no for recess lunch, and when they come to school
Speaker 2: it's kids bop so loud. I've been I wake up
Speaker 2: to kids bop songs.
Speaker 1: I think kids bop is like child abuse. I really,
Speaker 1: I hate it so much. I play the real songs
Speaker 1: for the kids like you. They don't need to play
Speaker 1: these water down versions of the songs. Yeah, well said
Speaker 1: play jazz. But yeah. So let's segue now gracefully into
Speaker 1: our episode, because this is a really this is oh
Speaker 1: my god. This episode really like keeps me awake to night.
Speaker 1: It's so crazy, So let's get into it.
Speaker 2: So today we will be doing season thirteen, episode fifteen,
Speaker 2: called Hunting Ground. Do I keep calling it higher ground
Speaker 2: like the Stevie Wonder slash RHCP song, Yes I do.
Speaker 2: I keep looking for my notes and I kept typing
Speaker 2: in higher Ground and I kept going insane. But it
Speaker 2: is hunting Ground and we will definitely find out why.
Speaker 2: So the episode opens up on Harry Connick Junior and
Speaker 2: Marishka aka Olivia Benson leaving well I guess I used
Speaker 2: Harry's real name.
Speaker 3: Whatever. So Harry and Marishka are leaving a movie theater
Speaker 3: and it looks like a date and she's.
Speaker 2: Wearing a trench peacoat situation with Chloe hair hoops. You
Speaker 2: know this, this is an upscale, fun look maybe a date.
Speaker 2: He tries PDA and she's like, please stop, what are
Speaker 2: you doing? We can't like go public, and he's.
Speaker 3: Like, come on public, I want to fuck.
Speaker 2: But they decide to keep the pressure off and chill out,
Speaker 2: and he's like, let's go out to E and she says, no,
Speaker 2: take out at my place, which obviously means either sex
Speaker 2: or I don't want to be seen out in public
Speaker 2: with you.
Speaker 1: I think it's a little bit of both, because they
Speaker 1: just don't want to. They're like, not that far from
Speaker 1: the squad or something like that. But I also feel
Speaker 1: like it's really weird to be like, let's just chill
Speaker 1: a little.
Speaker 3: Bit, let's go fuck. It's weird. It's it's a's double
Speaker 3: messaging to me. Well, yeah, they're just separating work in person. No, No,
Speaker 3: like you.
Speaker 2: Can fucking maybe still be chill. I don't know, I
Speaker 2: don't know, can you. Yeah, that's that's for a different relationship,
Speaker 2: different podcasts. Yeah, so behind them, and they don't really
Speaker 2: do this often, which I really appreciate. But behind them
Speaker 2: there's like a man walking a dog on a leash
Speaker 2: and he looks like a nerd, you know, glasses and
Speaker 2: I forgot who has this joke? But it is like
Speaker 2: I just can't see when did the stereotype happen that
Speaker 2: I'm suddenly smart and love computers.
Speaker 3: Like I'm just blind, but I can't remember who's show.
Speaker 3: That's funny.
Speaker 2: I know I don't remember, but I'm like, that's such
Speaker 2: a good point, Like how did we anyone with bad vision?
Speaker 3: Is a point? Dexter so goofy.
Speaker 4: I kind of don't like it when they do stuff
Speaker 4: like this, like the like because it implies that New
Speaker 4: York is like this tiny village where like the cops
Speaker 4: are on a date and those of serial Killer two
Speaker 4: blocks like a block them checking the newspaper.
Speaker 2: I get that, but that's my face. I loved running
Speaker 2: into people in New York. Names felt better.
Speaker 3: Than like a subway or like you're walking You're like,
Speaker 3: what up? But you got to keep asuming. I do
Speaker 3: love that, and I do think in a lot of
Speaker 3: ways New York is a small city.
Speaker 1: It's just weird when it's like the captain of the
Speaker 1: sexual Crimes Unit is just strolling past a man who's
Speaker 1: committing a heinous sexual crimes.
Speaker 3: It's a little coincidental, but I loved it. I did
Speaker 3: love it.
Speaker 2: And so he's picking up a free newspaper called Downtown.
Speaker 2: I don't know if you have these in your where
Speaker 2: you live, but it's like the free paper you take
Speaker 2: on the train with you. I was on the cover
Speaker 2: of the Chicago Red Eye once. No big deal, huge deal.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: We see him with a photo circled and he's calling
Speaker 2: someone from the back pages and he wants to pay
Speaker 2: cash because his wife is on him, and he wants
Speaker 2: to meet at the Starbucks on fourteenth and seventh. And
Speaker 2: just hearing those streets made me nostalgic for New York
Speaker 2: because I got off at them.
Speaker 3: Trying to say, I'm like, is there a Starbucks at fourteenth?
Speaker 2: And I know I did too, because but I always
Speaker 2: got off at fourteenth and six. But that was the
Speaker 2: hell Do you remember the Hell the Hell Bridge where
Speaker 2: it's like you got off the l and then if
Speaker 2: you wanted to get on the one two three, there's
Speaker 2: the hell Bridge.
Speaker 3: Oh I hate that shit. I don't.
Speaker 5: I won't.
Speaker 1: I won't even switch underground. I'm like, I'll take it
Speaker 1: to a different stop. I'll go to like West fourth
Speaker 1: because you don't have to do that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I would get off on the FM to
Speaker 2: go to my you know, my comedy club.
Speaker 3: But if you follow the hell Bridge, I'm like, was
Speaker 3: there a Starbucks or not?
Speaker 2: But it did make me nostalgic, But also like this
Speaker 2: pisses me off because it's like, if it's a new customer,
Speaker 2: you got to get a card. I mean it works
Speaker 2: at a hair salon, we wouldn't even make a hair
Speaker 2: appointment without a credit card. And you're sending a woman
Speaker 2: to meet a guy with cash from a payphone. You
Speaker 2: know that you're not taking care of yours.
Speaker 3: Yeah, not exactly a vetting process.
Speaker 2: There's no Starbucks, Google street View, no Starbucks. Just so
Speaker 2: you know, we see a young blonde and she's holding
Speaker 2: a baby. She's answering the call to meet this guy,
Speaker 2: and the mom's like, what the fuck what do you doing?
Speaker 3: Blah blah blah what if I had plans?
Speaker 2: And it's like, you're the mom of a teen mom,
Speaker 2: do your job, maybe sit this kid. But the girl
Speaker 2: says she can't turn down catering work. The mom's like,
Speaker 2: who is doing catering this late? It's nine o'clock and
Speaker 2: she says, rich people, which is my answer.
Speaker 1: It's a great answer, And like, would you love to
Speaker 1: be rich for like it's eight fifteen and you're like,
Speaker 1: you know what, call the catering people.
Speaker 3: Let's just have a catered party right now. I would.
Speaker 2: But if I if we're that level of wealth, I'd
Speaker 2: rather call a Michelin star restaurant, say get a private
Speaker 2: room ready for me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but what if you don't want to leave your house?
Speaker 1: What if you're huge? You get recognized. It's like annoying.
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, either ray is good.
Speaker 2: I just like I just want to go to laberna
Speaker 2: den in a private room. So cut to she's out
Speaker 2: to dinner with this nerd and she's only eating a salad.
Speaker 2: So he's pissed and he's in and this is also foreshadowing,
Speaker 2: but he says, you'll need meat on your bones for
Speaker 2: the winter, and she smiles says something dumb. You know,
Speaker 2: she's flirting, So they're having like a weird flirt situation
Speaker 2: and then he asks the waiter to wrap this up
Speaker 2: for my dog please. And he's not rude, but I
Speaker 2: don't like the way he spoke to the waiter. But
Speaker 2: nothing was advertly rude, but I didn't like it. I
Speaker 2: don't know if it was like lack of icon. He
Speaker 2: is good, this actor like he is. He is communicating creepiness,
Speaker 2: like very subtly. I feel like, yeah, just the way
Speaker 2: he talked to that waiter and was like, wrap this
Speaker 2: up for my dog please, it's just weird, Like weird
Speaker 2: is the word, because I was like, I don't think
Speaker 2: it's totally off putting, but I don't like it.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So they're walking to the car after dinner and he
Speaker 2: opens the car and there's a dog in the back
Speaker 2: seat with a cage type like screen like a cabin.
Speaker 2: It's a cage, and the dog is cute. They have
Speaker 2: some banter. She's not loving it. Her instincts are saying
Speaker 2: this is strange, do not go. But he's like, listen,
Speaker 2: the dog's good. Just get in the car. And she
Speaker 2: smiles and she's super cute and sweet, and she gets
Speaker 2: in the car. Cut back to Harry and Marishkaus day
Speaker 2: and she looks very pretty eyeliner, and he's wooing her.
Speaker 3: They make out, so that's.
Speaker 2: Exciting, and he does say to her like, I don't
Speaker 2: know what you've been through, but I'm here baby, So.
Speaker 1: I mean you've cut me off and saying that I
Speaker 1: minimize the coreese rollins sexual attention. I have to cut
Speaker 1: you off. But this was really sexy and hot. I
Speaker 1: thought I thought they were being really hot together, and
Speaker 1: I think you need to give it a little bit
Speaker 1: more attention.
Speaker 3: He does nothing for me.
Speaker 1: Look, he's actually not really for me either, but I
Speaker 1: do think they have chemistry.
Speaker 3: He doesn't really.
Speaker 1: I'm not like Harry gone to Junior, Oh my god,
Speaker 1: like like the way I think her husband's way hotter
Speaker 1: Peter Herman.
Speaker 3: But like, I don't know. I did think it was
Speaker 3: really hot.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm more of a castady person, even though he's
Speaker 2: toxic but and try to ruin her life and get
Speaker 2: her child taken away from her. But I, yeah, Harry
Speaker 2: does nothing. You're right to cut me off. I feel
Speaker 2: nothing for these people.
Speaker 3: We're just exhibiting our preferences. I think, go on, Yeah,
Speaker 3: you like a guy who can play the piano.
Speaker 1: Well, no, it's not even not. I don't even love him.
Speaker 1: I just feel like you never see Benson makeout with anybody.
Speaker 1: You never really see Benson having any hot times, and
Speaker 1: like she seems really into him. I never saw that
Speaker 1: kind of like sort of like maybe because she's older.
Speaker 1: But with Bart Bass's dad, what's his name, Tucker Tucker? Yeah,
Speaker 1: who's Bart Bass? Chuck Bass's dad, Bart Bass. That's who
Speaker 1: he plays in Gossip Girls. Okay, I don't watch guy.
Speaker 1: I've never seen an episode. That's crazy ed Tucker to
Speaker 1: me is Sex in the City.
Speaker 3: And he was in one episode of that right too.
Speaker 2: Too, because he fucks her when she's pregnant, and just
Speaker 2: then he comes back to town and she's like, I
Speaker 2: have a baby. He's like, oh mine, and she's like, nah, man,
Speaker 2: let's fuck. But the baby keeps interrupting and she has
Speaker 2: to learn a lesson about loving her baby or something.
Speaker 2: So so they're having their day, they're making out and
Speaker 2: then uh oh they cut and the dog is sitting
Speaker 2: in the front seat like proud as fuck, and then
Speaker 2: the cutie is tied wrists in the back seat cage
Speaker 2: area and uh, not good.
Speaker 3: And she looks really really scared. Yeah, and she starts
Speaker 3: begging to be let out.
Speaker 2: You don't have to pay me, and it's like we're
Speaker 2: past that, girl, But I'll do whatever you want.
Speaker 3: Please.
Speaker 2: I don't want to die, and he responds, that's up
Speaker 2: to you, isn't it, And they zoom in on his
Speaker 2: glasses and we get to the credits.
Speaker 3: So this is like a jam packed intro.
Speaker 2: I feel for like, we have love and fear, we
Speaker 2: have all the emissions. So Benson wakes up in Harry's
Speaker 2: arms to her phone ringing like the show never lets
Speaker 2: Benson have too much fun. Yeah, like you could have
Speaker 2: a night of sex, but you're not getting breakfast. That's
Speaker 2: like they never write, they never let her have too
Speaker 2: much fun. So she's she's got to go. It seems
Speaker 2: like it was good sex. She's wearing his shirt, but
Speaker 2: she's got to go because shit's going down. And she
Speaker 2: runs into Tomorrow And I don't think we do enough
Speaker 2: Tomorrow episodes.
Speaker 3: We're gonna do more, We're coming up. I think Tomorrow's
Speaker 3: hot as hell.
Speaker 2: He is so hot, and I think he's just such
Speaker 2: I don't love his character.
Speaker 3: That's the problem, the way he talks to his wife. No,
Speaker 3: but her I have opinions and we get to those.
Speaker 1: But yeah, but I but physically, I mean he's in
Speaker 1: like a new show called Mayans on FX where he's
Speaker 1: like a motorcycle guy. I think it's kind of it's
Speaker 1: a it's a spin off of Sons of Anarchy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're so focused on like Stabler's ass and Carreese's
Speaker 2: sensitivity that we forget Tomorrow's just stone cold hotness.
Speaker 3: Yes, because you know he shoots people that.
Speaker 2: Are unarmed, so we we don't love him.
Speaker 3: Did he ever cheat? I don't think he cheated.
Speaker 2: Though, but okay, whatever she cheated, he did, No, she did,
Speaker 2: she cheated.
Speaker 3: She also, I've seen him in person. He is exceptionally
Speaker 3: hotter in person. I bet, I bet he's a babe.
Speaker 1: You know who was so hot that I saw in
Speaker 1: person and like I was in it. I escorted him
Speaker 1: when he was on Conan, so we were actually speaking
Speaker 1: to each other on an elevator. Jake Jillenhall not that
Speaker 1: to me cute on screen in person, like melt your
Speaker 1: face hot.
Speaker 2: But that's it makes sense so that someone I saw that,
Speaker 2: you're like, of course pretty. But when I saw kristin
Speaker 2: Wig in person, I'm like, oh, no one is more
Speaker 2: beautiful than you. Really dropped at gorgeous and she was
Speaker 2: talking to the tall stars guard.
Speaker 3: Oh and I try.
Speaker 2: I mean I was staring but trying not to stare
Speaker 2: the whole time.
Speaker 3: But like I when you.
Speaker 2: See famous people like that up close, you're like, oh,
Speaker 2: you're the hottest person alive. Okay, like it's you're obviously
Speaker 2: she's so talented too, but it was like, oh my god. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I asked, like, whenever I've talked to famous people, I'm like,
Speaker 2: that are comedians, so like there's whatever. When I talk
Speaker 2: to friends who have become famous, I'm always like, what
Speaker 2: famous person is the hottest person you've ever seen?
Speaker 3: Like give me the scoop.
Speaker 2: And the answers I've gotten consistently are Charlie's Throne and
Speaker 2: Jessica Biel.
Speaker 3: Interesting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Also, Jennifer Aniston was one of the most beautiful
Speaker 1: people up close, but.
Speaker 3: That's obvious from anywhere. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I kind of think she's a little bit plain looking,
Speaker 1: but in person, her eyes like sparkle.
Speaker 2: No, to me, she is the number one girl like
Speaker 2: Jack's and vander Pump like he's the number one guy.
Speaker 3: Like to me, jen girl Hollywood.
Speaker 2: Yes, outside of Britney spears in her prime, but that's like, no,
Speaker 2: Jen Aniston is everything to me. I just think she
Speaker 2: is the number one. She's not even a movie star
Speaker 2: like that's but she is. But she is everything. I'll
Speaker 2: buy smart water.
Speaker 3: I don't care.
Speaker 1: I have a vino in my tub right now, like
Speaker 1: so do I. I'll do whatever she says. I've bought
Speaker 1: her her living proof hair care is too expensive, though.
Speaker 3: They might sponsor us. Cut this all right, go to
Speaker 3: go back to the episode.
Speaker 2: Okay, whatever, So we meet tomorrow and he's like, wow,
Speaker 2: you look happy, and so he knows she got late,
Speaker 2: and but then unfortunately a teen mom is missing, so
Speaker 2: they can't like get the low down on the fucking
Speaker 2: The daughter's been missing for two days. And the mom
Speaker 2: plays a voicemail from the missing teen and you know
Speaker 2: it's just sad, but it's the voicemail is mom, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2: I'm a bad girl. I go out with Suddenly there's screams.
Speaker 2: But I have sex with men for money. I want
Speaker 2: you to know that's who I really am. I'm just
Speaker 2: a dirty whore. So obviously she's being forced to say this,
Speaker 2: and this guy is a fucking sadist. So then the
Speaker 2: mom tells the detectives like Katie had a late night
Speaker 2: catering gig, and the detectives immediately know what's up. But
Speaker 2: Omaro questions the mom why she waited from Saturday to
Speaker 2: Monday to report her missing, and she said she called Sunday,
Speaker 2: but the cops said she's probably out partying and doesn't care.
Speaker 2: And that's what I love about SVU, is they do
Speaker 2: they're a cab too. Yeah, in a lot of ways
Speaker 2: they do show cops like not doing a good job,
Speaker 2: and like SVU comes and swoops in, So I like
Speaker 2: that about this show. So Rollins listens to the message
Speaker 2: and she immediately is like this is a psychopath and
Speaker 2: I don't know who would disagree with her, like, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's a psycho path.
Speaker 3: Roland's cool.
Speaker 2: And the last ping on her cell phone was a
Speaker 2: bridge to Pansy Bridge to Palsy.
Speaker 3: Tap and Z? Where is that the tap and Z?
Speaker 1: I think is up to get to like upstate New York,
Speaker 1: like Hudson River Valley.
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, so that.
Speaker 2: Was the last ping off the bridge and then they're
Speaker 2: like the phone was probably thrown off into the river.
Speaker 2: The last call she got was the caterer lol g
Speaker 2: NS Services LLC. Important fact, remember that forever. So there's
Speaker 2: a sweet moment. I really love this Craigan. I still
Speaker 2: like sometimes I forget and then I see him on
Speaker 2: screen and then I remember that we met.
Speaker 3: Him through the computer.
Speaker 2: But it is like, but he's really sweet with Rowlins
Speaker 2: and they have a moment like how'd you make it
Speaker 2: past super Bowl?
Speaker 3: Oh yeah? And gambling stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I like that he checked in on her
Speaker 2: and she said she went to three meetings standing room only.
Speaker 2: And this was actually a nice insightful moment for myself,
Speaker 2: Like I don't think about gambling a d often and
Speaker 2: the things that might be triggers.
Speaker 3: So I just like another.
Speaker 1: Yeah from a super Bowl weekend means like dips, you know,
Speaker 1: and for other people it's like a hard thing to
Speaker 1: get through it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, our last suit no during yeah, the super Bowl
Speaker 2: party before pandemic.
Speaker 3: Karen and I had a great time. I let my
Speaker 3: daughter try McDonald's French fries for the first time.
Speaker 2: So Finn is at the brothel escort service type place
Speaker 2: and the woman that enters she has a sleek ponytail
Speaker 2: gold jewelry.
Speaker 3: And she immediately is like, this is a legit business.
Speaker 2: Nothing funny, which stops saying if you're a shady business,
Speaker 2: do not say you're a legitimate business, because it's the number,
Speaker 2: Like if you were a legitimate business, you would never
Speaker 2: have to say that.
Speaker 3: So it's always like.
Speaker 2: Mistake number one. But the woman says, listen, we're a
Speaker 2: matchmaking service. If she did anything more, that's on her
Speaker 2: rollins is like, we don't care. There's a girl she's
Speaker 2: missing and she's sixteen, so go fuck yourself. And immediately
Speaker 2: she doesn't want to get trouble for working with a
Speaker 2: sixteen year old girl, so she sits down and is
Speaker 2: going to cooperate fully, give them all the scoop.
Speaker 3: She says, you know, first time caller.
Speaker 2: They went out to dinner and met at Starbucks, like
Speaker 2: we said, but he insisted on paying cash.
Speaker 3: That's when you hang up. Yeah, the name was Brewster, just.
Speaker 1: One name, so they didn't even get meaning a last name,
Speaker 1: Like it's not that he couldn't have just said Brewster
Speaker 1: Smith and which is you know, bullshit. But still it's
Speaker 1: like you're not you don't even give a fuck what
Speaker 1: happens to these girls?
Speaker 2: No, and to not get a credit card is shocking
Speaker 2: because if you need to say, well hold it, you
Speaker 2: can pay cash, We're going to hold your credit card
Speaker 2: in case you fucking don't pay, or with someone like
Speaker 2: this who does want to commit crimes. Again, we don't
Speaker 2: want to give advice to criminals, but buy one of
Speaker 2: those visa gift cards that.
Speaker 3: Are two hundred and fifty five hundred dollars and then
Speaker 3: you can use those and you're.
Speaker 1: Associated of sexual predators.
Speaker 3: But it's very upsetting.
Speaker 2: So the woman in charge says that Hayley came to
Speaker 2: her company because her previous employer or pimp, I don't
Speaker 2: really know, but a girl went missing on Christmas.
Speaker 3: And was never found and that freaks her out.
Speaker 2: So she came here and phyl and Ro's Finn and
Speaker 2: Rollins go to that previous employer and he's a scuzzy
Speaker 2: looking guy. You know, he needs a haircut. He's got
Speaker 2: glasses too. But you don't think he's smart, No, you don't.
Speaker 2: You certainly don't.
Speaker 3: Even though aren't there signs on the wall.
Speaker 1: They are like sat Prep like it's weirdly like they're
Speaker 1: trying to act like they're selling sat Prep, but it's
Speaker 1: really sex work it's just.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because if you're wearing like a baggy polo with
Speaker 2: designs on.
Speaker 3: It, it's not SAT. Baby. I'm not coming to you
Speaker 3: to get my scores up.
Speaker 2: And he said that she was terrible, and then he goes,
Speaker 2: don't hire someone with a baby, which you.
Speaker 3: Know, I laughed, but but hire Kara with the baby.
Speaker 3: Hire me. I mean, I'm, I got it, I'm And.
Speaker 2: He goes, technically she's an SAT tutor, and they're like,
Speaker 2: we're not fucking with you, and we're gonna stick everyone
Speaker 2: we want on you, like, fucking help.
Speaker 3: Us figure this out.
Speaker 2: So basically, the girl that went missing around the holidays,
Speaker 2: her name was Roxy again back Pages and nope, no
Speaker 2: credit card, cash only brewster. So we have a connection
Speaker 2: and this is a serial. So we're back at the
Speaker 2: precinct and everyone's giving their opinions. We're having a little
Speaker 2: hangout session. We got the whole gang. We got Rollins
Speaker 2: who's like he's a psychopath, we got Munch going listen.
Speaker 2: We can't be mad at back Pages because without those ads,
Speaker 2: there wouldn't be a village voice, and they're the only
Speaker 2: ones doing real investigative journaling. And it's like, okay, munch,
Speaker 2: but I.
Speaker 3: Mean rip that he was right. The village Voice shut down.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then Benson is like, they're facilitating human trafficking.
Speaker 2: They're the worst. And tomorrow I don't remember what he says. Okay,
Speaker 2: there's just a lot of stuff. So they're all chatting.
Speaker 2: Cragan like the dad is is like, chill out, everyone, relax,
Speaker 2: you go here, you go there, do everything.
Speaker 3: So Rollinson Phil keep calling Finn Phil. I know.
Speaker 2: Rollins and Finn go to other agencies that advertise on
Speaker 2: the back pages to get information, and Benson and Tomarrow
Speaker 2: hit up the restaurants around Starbucks to see where they
Speaker 2: went on a date. And we meet a classic SVU character,
Speaker 2: a bartender that remembers everything. They were at table three.
Speaker 2: She was sexy as hell. I didn't pay attention to him, glasses,
Speaker 2: brown hair, ten percent tip, and he knew it was
Speaker 2: a first date because dessert and lattes and they left
Speaker 2: like at clothes and and the doggie bag, so that
Speaker 2: obviously alludes to the dog.
Speaker 3: We know there was a dog. Yeah, well yeah, we've
Speaker 3: seen we've seen the dog. Yeah, but they seem like
Speaker 3: they know, like the doggie bag gives them information. We're
Speaker 3: looking for a guy with a dog. I guess.
Speaker 1: Also, I guess sexual predators psychopaths don't tip.
Speaker 3: Well, no, that makes sense because you don't care about it,
Speaker 3: don't care about other people. Yeah, ten not okay, well no.
Speaker 2: When I worked at places or even at comedy clubs
Speaker 2: with the staff there, I'd always ask the pregnant employees, like,
Speaker 2: you're getting more tips, and they said no really, which
Speaker 2: is crazy to me. If I saw if a pregnant
Speaker 2: woman is serving me, that I'm tipping more.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I should have gotten away. It's hard to work.
Speaker 3: I should have gone a serving job during this pandemic.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great idea. So we cut to fucking scariness,
Speaker 2: Like probably our worst nightmare is people on this planet.
Speaker 3: Really is so scary. I know we say this all
Speaker 3: the time.
Speaker 1: I know we say the haunting thing all the time,
Speaker 1: and you guys are coming for us and being funny
Speaker 1: about it online, and we do say it. This is
Speaker 1: one of my top five episodes that like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: scares the absolute fuck out of me. When I think
Speaker 1: about it, I remember watching this and going this is
Speaker 1: even too much for SVU, Like chasing someone through a
Speaker 1: fucking wooded area, hunting them. Yeah, I'm like, I just
Speaker 1: want I can't r Yeah, well, get ready.
Speaker 2: So we cut to like so the dog is barking
Speaker 2: and running, the man is holding a gun running through
Speaker 2: the woods, and then our blonde girl is running with
Speaker 2: wounds and she looks tight, I mean, she looks worn
Speaker 2: out and it's just really scary. And the dog is
Speaker 2: a fucking narc and leads the man to the girls.
Speaker 3: And then there's like.
Speaker 2: A red laser next to Haley that's like the same
Speaker 2: kind of laser you would use to distract a cat,
Speaker 2: and it narrowly misses her arm, and then she keeps
Speaker 2: on running and then we leave and we're.
Speaker 3: Like what the fuck, Like this is too much.
Speaker 2: So we get scoop from one of the other agencies
Speaker 2: that a sex worker thought that he was a creep
Speaker 2: and didn't get into the car and that she ran away.
Speaker 2: So they find out that there was a woman who
Speaker 2: went on a date with him, you know, for money
Speaker 2: and everything, and then she got bad vibes and was
Speaker 2: creeped out and she didn't get in the car. So
Speaker 2: they have to find this woman to get information from her.
Speaker 2: But then Benson and Munch are like, let's go to
Speaker 2: the Village Voice and see if he can of us
Speaker 2: information on who puts out ads. So everyone's just working, Okay,
Speaker 2: it's SVU. They're at fucking work. And the guy that
Speaker 2: works at the Village Voice, I was like, I know
Speaker 2: him from somewhere. He kind of looks like the guy
Speaker 2: who wrote Game of Thrones, but it's not him. It's
Speaker 2: the guy from Big Daddy. I've seen Big Daddy, you do.
Speaker 2: He's the foster care guy. He's like the child services
Speaker 2: guy who's like, excuse me, you lied?
Speaker 3: I know you don't remember.
Speaker 2: He's also from Rounders, which is one of my favorite
Speaker 2: movies ever. I had a big Edward Norton face for
Speaker 2: a big part of my youth. But he was at
Speaker 2: one of the poker tables, so he's one of the friends,
Speaker 2: so I was really happy to see him. He has
Speaker 2: sixty six credits on IMDb. Is he's busy. He obviously
Speaker 2: is not sharing sources. Obviously this was a waste of guess, honestly, Like,
Speaker 2: there's no way a guy in journalism is sharing.
Speaker 3: Sources or a thing or anything.
Speaker 2: And he thinks this is just payback against the paper
Speaker 2: for being anti cop and Marishka is like nah, bro,
Speaker 2: like you're on the wrong side here, and there's a
Speaker 2: girl missing and this isn't payback.
Speaker 3: We don't care what you say about us.
Speaker 2: So Robin's in Tomorrow knock on a woman's door, who
Speaker 2: is the score that like was scared of Brewster and left,
Speaker 2: But immediately there's like a husband behind and you could
Speaker 2: tell he's controlling. He has the vibe of Justin Timberlake
Speaker 2: in the movie Black Snake.
Speaker 3: M mop completely.
Speaker 1: Yes, I didn't think it, but when you said it,
Speaker 1: I'm like, I know exactly where this is going.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Anna Marine Tattoo.
Speaker 2: You could tell he's kind of controlling, like the way
Speaker 2: he comes at her.
Speaker 3: I don't really love that energy.
Speaker 1: That's not for me, but they sort of do that
Speaker 1: to show that Tomorrow like knows how to talk to
Speaker 1: military guys.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then the girl did a great job acting
Speaker 2: where it's like she can't talk in front of him.
Speaker 2: They need to get her fucking story, and so they
Speaker 2: come up with a cover story that there's a groper
Speaker 2: in the neighborhood and they need them to id some people,
Speaker 2: and Marrow leans in like you're the Marines. My wife's there,
Speaker 2: I'm this, we need your high. If anyone's gonna know
Speaker 2: something shady, it's a marine and it just proves how
Speaker 2: dumb marines are. I mean, I don't know, like he
Speaker 2: fell for it. So they go to the precinct to
Speaker 2: like look at some photos and get some information, and
Speaker 2: then we cut to fucking Harry Connick Junior and Benson
Speaker 2: at a donut shop and she has a funny joke.
Speaker 3: She goes, you know how to Laura Cop love that.
Speaker 3: I meanwhile, I've like never seen Benson need a donut
Speaker 3: on the show. No one actually.
Speaker 1: Maybe fit they have them in the background, but like
Speaker 1: I've never seen Benson just like chowing down on a blaze.
Speaker 5: You know what.
Speaker 2: Other episode remember where they're all like having to testify
Speaker 2: and the episode is like a yeah episode.
Speaker 3: Where they're in that back room.
Speaker 1: I feel like there might be storyline there with the
Speaker 1: with the bailiff write in and let us know what
Speaker 1: we're missing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the bailiff is like, I take one of these
Speaker 2: to my wife.
Speaker 3: I actually love donuts. No, I love donuts too.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying it's funny, like cop stereotype, and yet
Speaker 1: we never see these cops really eating donuts.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I really like donuts. I don't think they.
Speaker 1: Get enough credit. I mean, and you just moved to
Speaker 1: Los Angeles. There's a donut shop. I mean, there's a
Speaker 1: don't shop every two feet here. I know, but I
Speaker 1: just feel everyone's.
Speaker 2: Like cupcake, cupcake, cupcake, and.
Speaker 3: It's like, donuts are better. I love donuts. I'm glad.
Speaker 2: Okay, So the Village Voice puts out an article about
Speaker 2: how the girls are working alone and not with pimps,
Speaker 2: and basically it's saying, if there aren't pimps, then the
Speaker 2: Voice can't be an accessory. I don't really understand this
Speaker 2: at all, but okay, but Benson really believes they're facilitating
Speaker 2: underage sex trafficking. The paper hasn't broken laws, but she's like,
Speaker 2: we know what's going on.
Speaker 3: We all know. I just can't.
Speaker 2: But Harry Connick Junior is saying, I can't get involved
Speaker 2: with any of your cases because I want our relationship
Speaker 2: to work, and that's not going to be. Okay, And
Speaker 2: they kiss at the donut shop. I did write, oh
Speaker 2: my god, they kiss in the donut shop in all caps.
Speaker 1: So it's not like I fully don't care, but okay,
Speaker 1: all right, I'll accept that.
Speaker 2: Benson gets a text. Obviously it's not fun. It's the
Speaker 2: missing girl's mother. So Benson has to go straight to work.
Speaker 2: So they're back at the precinct with the girl who
Speaker 2: got away, and she's just like, I just didn't like
Speaker 2: the vibe. The dog was in the back, I saw
Speaker 2: shovels and I was like no, And he wanted to
Speaker 2: take her to a beach thirty minutes away and just drive.
Speaker 2: And she said she was sick and ran away. And
Speaker 2: this is what we always talk about, like follow your
Speaker 2: fucking instincts, like don't, it's not good. But she says
Speaker 2: she remembers gray jeep. There was a bumper sticker. I'd
Speaker 2: either said MV or MVY. So she's been very helpful
Speaker 2: to the investigation, I would say. The mom gets another
Speaker 2: voicemail and basically it's really scary. She sounds very weak
Speaker 2: and she's saying I'm cold, I don't want to play anymore.
Speaker 2: But if I stop, he'll care. Help me, help me please.
Speaker 2: So we listen to the voicemail and then we have
Speaker 2: a morrow. With the clues that they got from the
Speaker 2: woman who escaped. They figure out that the dog is
Speaker 2: a blue healer and it's a hunting dog, and they
Speaker 2: figure out that MB is a beach that's thirty minutes away,
Speaker 2: and so they're trying to just connect all of these
Speaker 2: things and they're doing a really good job. So Benson
Speaker 2: and Tomorrow go down to this beach MB area Manhattan Beach.
Speaker 2: Why do I keep saying that? So they go down
Speaker 2: to Manhattan Beach because they say a lot of like
Speaker 2: a lot of cops live there and work there or something.
Speaker 2: And they're talking to a cop who recognizes none of
Speaker 2: the girls, but he remembers the dog and the dog
Speaker 2: had no leash, and he remembers the shovel in the car.
Speaker 2: But he felt bad for that guy because he was like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: I just had to bury another dog, So so he
Speaker 2: let him go. And this is like a perfect thing
Speaker 2: where like I love when guys are like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: he's so cool and then women are like he's a
Speaker 2: fucking creep that It's like something like this where people
Speaker 2: are like, uh, he's creepy, and this guy just had
Speaker 2: no no.
Speaker 1: God, men just don't tend to have the same feelers
Speaker 1: for it. They just like don't They're like, yeah, it
Speaker 1: was just a guy with a shovel burying another dog.
Speaker 1: And girls are like that man is creepy times a thousand.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I watched some really bad crime doc on Netflix and
Speaker 2: this hotel owner who housed this guy was like, yeah,
Speaker 2: he seems so chill. And then they showed his photo
Speaker 2: and I'm like.
Speaker 1: This is the creepy I've ever seen the picture to me,
Speaker 1: how creepy?
Speaker 3: Yeah, still photo.
Speaker 2: So they head to the beach with all these German
Speaker 2: shepherd working dogs and they find so many bodies, like
Speaker 2: it is so oh god, Like Benson says, they need backup,
Speaker 2: and it's kind of like the moment in the craft
Speaker 2: where all the whales come up on shore. They zoom
Speaker 2: it on Benson's face looking horrified, and then they pan
Speaker 2: out and it's just like holy shit, there's like it's just.
Speaker 1: Body because it's all the German shepherds sitting still where
Speaker 1: they find the because that's what the dogs do.
Speaker 3: Like I think people think.
Speaker 1: That dogs, like drug dogs or whatever, will come up
Speaker 1: to you and be like r fro you have pot
Speaker 1: or whatever. No, they come up to you and they
Speaker 1: sit in front of you quietly. So that's like what happens.
Speaker 1: These dogs are like, we found what we were looking for,
Speaker 1: and they just sit in front of these like graves.
Speaker 3: So it's creepy, it's very like eerie.
Speaker 2: And then it's like you, when do you find the
Speaker 2: time to bury these bodies when no one is out,
Speaker 2: like there's no teens fucking on the beach, Like, I
Speaker 2: just don't understand how he has gotten away with it,
Speaker 2: and I really don't like this moment. Melinda is on
Speaker 2: the scene giving all the scoop and she says, this
Speaker 2: used to be a horse burial ground, but they found
Speaker 2: seven bodies as of now. The freshest body they found
Speaker 2: has been thirty days and the dogs wouldn't have missed Haley.
Speaker 2: So Haley's not there because it's such a fresh body.
Speaker 2: Harry Connock Junior shows up, so I guess he's getting
Speaker 2: involved because I don't.
Speaker 3: I don't know he.
Speaker 1: Now it's very high profile, Okay, now he has to
Speaker 1: get involved. I mean, it's like, seven bodies on the beach,
Speaker 1: that's a.
Speaker 3: Lot, Okay. Marishka has a belt over her coat. Do
Speaker 3: people do this? It seemed like of the time. I
Speaker 3: just can't imagine wanting. I remember though, when.
Speaker 1: The trench coats kind of came back and everyone was
Speaker 1: belting them. I had a belted coat. Actually when I
Speaker 1: lived in Italy. Yeah it's cold. Who care, I just
Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm not into winterwear. But she had
Speaker 1: a belted coat.
Speaker 2: So amorrow is in the bunk bedroom, face facetiming his wife,
Speaker 2: Laura Benatti, and they have a very uncomfortable conversation about
Speaker 2: Candy Corn. I don't know what connected these two. They
Speaker 2: have absolutely no chemistry, no love. No, this is a
Speaker 2: dead marriage. I don't know like it is.
Speaker 3: And then he yells at her and she's like, I'm
Speaker 3: sorry to call you.
Speaker 2: I'm at war. And he's like, I'm worried sick. And
Speaker 2: she's like, you're worried sick. And I'm like, just end this.
Speaker 1: I like fucking she used some love in my neighborhood
Speaker 1: in New York, and I've seen her in person.
Speaker 2: She's very beautiful and very talented. She is she's a
Speaker 2: Broadway baby. Yeah, I hate the married married.
Speaker 3: You're right, Nope, you're right. Okay.
Speaker 2: So all the women that are found have no ideas,
Speaker 2: and they were all exphyxiated, and they all had ketamine
Speaker 2: in their talk screen. And they find one cadaver that
Speaker 2: had veneers and we I didn't mention this, but earlier,
Speaker 2: the scuzzy guy in the polo shirt that was the
Speaker 2: sat tutor slash pimp. He was saying that he bought
Speaker 2: roxy veneers and then she disappeared and he was pissed
Speaker 2: because he invested ten grand into her veneers. But the
Speaker 2: veneers were dirty as hell and so like, that's not
Speaker 2: what you do with veneers. And there were acorns found
Speaker 2: in her gi tracked, so they realize she's been foraging
Speaker 2: for survival and her under arms and legs are unshaved.
Speaker 2: That's not really a sex worker vibe. So they they're
Speaker 2: figuring out what's going on, and she had ticks, and
Speaker 2: Melinda says tick DNA is cataloged for lime disease, so
Speaker 2: they're about to find out exactly where these ticks are
Speaker 2: and find a location.
Speaker 3: So that's really exciting.
Speaker 2: So the tick DNA takes us to Ulster County in
Speaker 2: the Catskills, and there's a super cool doctor there who
Speaker 2: loves ticks, and she kind of has the same haircut
Speaker 2: as me. I do have a fresh haircut, and me
Speaker 2: and her had the same vibe, and she remembers someone
Speaker 2: on k coming in to the hospital pretty roughed up.
Speaker 2: They treated her, but she couldn't remember anything. And I
Speaker 2: guess that's what special k does. It fucks with your
Speaker 2: memory and it's a trink.
Speaker 3: And she kept.
Speaker 2: Saying, Brewster, Brewster, Brewster. So obviously they need to find
Speaker 2: this girl. And the doctor says, listen, I took her
Speaker 2: to the psych ward.
Speaker 3: She might still be there. She is.
Speaker 2: She's a super super sad teen. She's in the psych
Speaker 2: unit at the library. There's a chess set on the
Speaker 2: table and she just keeps saying, nobody believe me. Nobody
Speaker 2: believed me. And she was actually in another SVU episode
Speaker 2: that is a favorite amongst the listeners, PC with Kathy Griffin. Yeah,
Speaker 2: she played the character Mina, but I don't remember who,
Speaker 2: but she is an sv comeback. She has a giant
Speaker 2: scar on her neck that looks so fucked up the
Speaker 2: makeup department, like really went in there. She said she
Speaker 2: did it to herself. It's the only way to end
Speaker 2: the game. And there's a lot of scary background noise
Speaker 2: in music and so I assume in the real world
Speaker 2: this is when the commercial would hit. So she's in
Speaker 2: the psych unit talking to the detectives and she explains
Speaker 2: that Brewster gave her the rope and said, if you
Speaker 2: want to end the game, you can use this, and
Speaker 2: she tried to and the fucking branch broke, which is
Speaker 2: it's all devastating, honestly. And then the game that we
Speaker 2: learn is he hunts these girls with the dog in
Speaker 2: the woods. He shoots them with a dart gun with ketamine,
Speaker 2: so they can't move their arms and legs, but they're
Speaker 2: awake for everything, which is so fucked up.
Speaker 3: He brings them back to.
Speaker 2: His shack and then rapes them, and then the game
Speaker 2: keeps starting over and over again, and so Benson asks
Speaker 2: he hunted you and ugh, and so then they also
Speaker 2: need to know how she escaped. So there was an
Speaker 2: electric fence and so it was raining one day and
Speaker 2: she decided, oh, I'm just going to touch the fence
Speaker 2: and die with electric currents. But the power was out
Speaker 2: and so she didn't get electrocuted to death, which I
Speaker 2: think is great. And she got to climb over the
Speaker 2: fence and run away and ran into the hospital where
Speaker 2: no one fucking believed her.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: She also gives us other information about how like she
Speaker 2: would sometimes hide under the shack, there was like a
Speaker 2: crawl space but he would always know that she was
Speaker 2: in there and would clean his gun and talk to
Speaker 2: the dog and say everything he was going to do
Speaker 2: to her.
Speaker 3: So that was fucked up.
Speaker 2: And then but Benson is like, don't worry, girl, we're
Speaker 2: going to get you home, and she goes, I don't
Speaker 2: want to go home.
Speaker 3: I'm safe here.
Speaker 2: He can't get me and if anyone cared about me,
Speaker 2: they would have found me already.
Speaker 3: So soul crushing. Yikes.
Speaker 2: There's another hangout in the precinct. They're trying to figure
Speaker 2: out what they're going to do. There's a wildlife preserve
Speaker 2: that's close to the beach and to Pansy Bridge and
Speaker 2: the Tapencie Tapenzie. I'm gonna name my future pet Tapanzi.
Speaker 3: So Hudson you. Of course they're behind fucking everything. They
Speaker 3: New York University just own a preserve in the cat Skills.
Speaker 3: It's like too fucking much.
Speaker 2: So they own the preserve and they're like, should we
Speaker 2: get the State police or FBI involved in Craigan's.
Speaker 3: Like, ough, the State Police, get the FBI out of here.
Speaker 3: So I like that a little bit.
Speaker 2: So Amaro calls Hudson you, and there's one Hudson you
Speaker 2: employee named Graham Winger and he's the gamekeeper there. He's
Speaker 2: thirty nine and Brewster is an alias. So Phil, I'm
Speaker 2: loving you calling Finn Phil all day. It's really making
Speaker 2: me laugh.
Speaker 3: Sorry.
Speaker 2: So Finn and Rollins are and I love their dynamic.
Speaker 2: But they are at Graham Winger's apartment in Manhattan Beach
Speaker 2: and they're looking through shit and they find darts, they
Speaker 2: find drug books, lots of evidence, and he logged his kills,
Speaker 2: all the stats how long they survived, like a murder journal.
Speaker 2: And then it's so they're getting ready to like attack
Speaker 2: the woods and like find everyone. And the main cop
Speaker 2: is giving all the cop finders directions and he goes,
Speaker 2: if you get lost, use your GPS if you need that.
Speaker 3: Note. I don't think you shouldn't be a cop, no,
Speaker 3: I mean I would know that. So they're hitting the woods.
Speaker 2: The dog senses something, the birds fly, I mean, everything's
Speaker 2: going down, and they find the shack. They find the
Speaker 2: car with the shovel of the mbstick or everything, and
Speaker 2: Marishka has a midhead ponytail and she's pulling it off.
Speaker 3: I like when she has that little ponytail. I like
Speaker 3: that look on her.
Speaker 2: And they finally find Hayley. She is like freezing on
Speaker 2: a cot.
Speaker 1: She's in jeans, dirty, and she looks like blue like
Speaker 1: she has like her skin is like light blue, like
Speaker 1: it looks it's bad.
Speaker 3: It's bad. Yeah, they found her right on time.
Speaker 2: Amaro leaves to check the perimeter and Benson's chatting with
Speaker 2: her and says, I know your drugs.
Speaker 3: Squeeze my hand if you understand.
Speaker 2: She squeezes her hand, and then Brewster enters the shack,
Speaker 2: no glasses on.
Speaker 3: Is he wearing contacts when he hunts? I don't get it.
Speaker 3: Know that seems like that's when you would need your
Speaker 3: eyesight the most. Yeah, and he's armed and dangerous.
Speaker 2: He is super rude, points gun at Benson and he's like,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna make you play the game. I'm gonna hunt
Speaker 2: your dumb mass and so the dog barks because he
Speaker 2: senses tomorrow. But Brewster doesn't see tomorrow. So that's great news,
Speaker 2: and surprise, surprise. He's an inceelm. I you know, whenever
Speaker 2: we try to like figure out serial killers in their
Speaker 2: minds and what's up their inceells. Okay, they feel entitled
Speaker 2: to women and their bodies and when they don't get it.
Speaker 2: They feel there's like victims of something and they have
Speaker 2: to go murder women who just don't want to fuck
Speaker 2: them because they're fucking crazy. So he goes on about
Speaker 2: breeding and eating and hunting and how nature. He loves
Speaker 2: it because they don't lie and animals are straightforward, not
Speaker 2: like whores. They're always lying about what they want. I
Speaker 2: held the door open, I bought dinner. They look past
Speaker 2: me until I pay them, And it's like, if you're
Speaker 2: holding the door open to get something in return, you
Speaker 2: are not nice. I don't think any of our listeners
Speaker 2: need to hear that. Benson's kind of trying to like
Speaker 2: it's okay, Like I think you're a good guy, right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: Benson does her you're in charge, you're in charge, and
Speaker 2: she goes, I'm not lying. I don't lie, and then
Speaker 2: he goes, you're reaching for your ankle gun and it's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: she's a hunter. Why are you fucking with him like this?
Speaker 2: So she has to give the ankle gun and you
Speaker 2: could tell Benson is not given up, but we rarely
Speaker 2: see her be like oh fuck, Like she's usually in control,
Speaker 2: even the other like not obviously the William Lewis, Oh.
Speaker 3: God, I can't even think about it. Yeah, stops asking
Speaker 3: us to do that episode. We're too scared. We don't
Speaker 3: want to watch it.
Speaker 2: Maybe here three Okay, yeah, we all want to fuck
Speaker 2: Pablo Schreiber. We don't want to rewatch the episode. But
Speaker 2: I'm thinking of another hostage moment, like she's usually un control,
Speaker 2: but we could tell she's kind of scared. And then
Speaker 2: amorro under the floorboards walaying down, shoots him twice and
Speaker 2: murders that motherfucker.
Speaker 1: It's a cool shot because you're like, where did the
Speaker 1: bullet come from? And then it's like Amara was under
Speaker 1: the fucking shack, like it it's a cool shot.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he saves the day. I'm so happy.
Speaker 2: And then finn Is like, wow, nurses birds, but hunts women. Okay, thanks,
Speaker 2: Haley's in the ic. You She's gonna make it. Cragan
Speaker 2: sends Tomorrow home even though it is a good shot,
Speaker 2: they have to review it and they have to figure
Speaker 2: it out, and Benson says, I wouldn't be here if
Speaker 2: it wasn't for him. It is his first kill, so
Speaker 2: he's having like a moment, and then he realizes he
Speaker 2: should call his wife, who has to kill people all the.
Speaker 3: Time maybe or something like that.
Speaker 2: And they actually have like a nice conversation in you know,
Speaker 2: the bunk bedroom that they have, and she's pumped that
Speaker 2: you know, he got him. And my last note is
Speaker 2: why did they get married? So that is a hunting
Speaker 2: ground ladies and gentlemen, and sadly it's Kara's turn.
Speaker 1: Yeah, get ready because it's not getting any.
Speaker 3: Better from here.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's get into the real crime that spond that
Speaker 1: horrible episode that truly haunts my dreams. So first I
Speaker 1: want to do a really quick check in about the
Speaker 1: whole back Pages because the way that this episode ends,
Speaker 1: that ha econnig Junior's character is like I'm going to
Speaker 1: take on the back pages. I'm going to show and
Speaker 1: what eventually happened is backpage did get shut down and
Speaker 1: that was not good for sex workers.
Speaker 3: Actually, now I follow a.
Speaker 2: Lot of porn stars and I remember Twitter was like pissed.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So we actually had a very interesting conversation with
Speaker 1: someone that I had met previously at a comedy show. Actually,
Speaker 1: but is a She is a feminist studies scholar who
Speaker 1: writes about labor, sexuality, and social struggle. She teaches Women,
Speaker 1: Gender and Sexuality studies at Washington University in Saint Louis,
Speaker 1: an excellent school, and she has a book called Porn
Speaker 1: Work Out. Her name is doctor Heather Berg. She gave
Speaker 1: us a You should follow her on Twitter. We talked
Speaker 1: about Faster Sessa with her, which are two separate pieces
Speaker 1: of legislation that passed in Congress I believe in twenty seventeen.
Speaker 1: Twenty eighteen, so a few years after this episode that
Speaker 1: took down sites like backpage and ended up really hindering
Speaker 1: a lot of the safety of a lot of sex workers.
Speaker 3: So basically these backpages.
Speaker 1: I know that people think that this contributes to trafficking,
Speaker 1: but if you look at the statistics, it really doesn't.
Speaker 3: The way that they work is that.
Speaker 1: Sex workers can on their own post free or cheaply
Speaker 1: adds for their services and there's no middleman. There's nobody
Speaker 1: taking a cut, there's nobody threatening them or anything like that,
Speaker 1: and their email is protected. They can screen for safety,
Speaker 1: they can run the client's name through sex worker blacklists,
Speaker 1: and you can do all of this online. Like the
Speaker 1: Internet has made sex work a lot safer in a
Speaker 1: lot of ways, but then our government keeps taking away
Speaker 1: a lot of these protections from them in the name
Speaker 1: of stopping sex trafficking and human trafficking, which is a
Speaker 1: very complex issue, and unfortunately our government is never looking
Speaker 1: at what sex workers are actually going through and is
Speaker 1: never talking to them and figuring out what they need
Speaker 1: to actually be safe.
Speaker 2: And what Heather said that I didn't know is most
Speaker 2: human trafficking is other parts of labor. It's most like
Speaker 2: agriculture and like housework.
Speaker 3: I don't know how to say it.
Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, it's agriculture, food service. A lot of
Speaker 1: that is a lot of like the force labor that
Speaker 1: you think of.
Speaker 2: And then she said, a lot of sex trafficking and
Speaker 2: human and that capacity is done often by people that
Speaker 2: you know, it's uncles, fathers, and so they're like conflating
Speaker 2: this issue instead of actually helping sex workers.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I mean, I've been listening to a lot
Speaker 1: of podcasts about this because I'm really trying to get
Speaker 1: educated on the whole human trafficking and sex trafficking thing.
Speaker 1: And like the numbers of underage people being sex trafficked
Speaker 1: are like minuscule, Like it's really like sex trafficking does happen,
Speaker 1: but it's really not. It's not like kids getting snatched
Speaker 1: off the street and forced into sex labor. And I'm
Speaker 1: not saying that never happens, but it is not the
Speaker 1: epidemic that it's being made out to be. So essentially
Speaker 1: taking out Backpage and doing what SVU is advocating at
Speaker 1: the end of this episode is forcing sex workers to
Speaker 1: work with a pimp, like you can't work independently, and
Speaker 1: this is pushing people towards stuff like debt, bondage and
Speaker 1: things that were we've talked about before on this podcast.
Speaker 1: So there's so much more to talk about with this.
Speaker 1: I really would love to just like do a full
Speaker 1: interview with Heather that we put out on the podcast,
Speaker 1: and maybe we will do that in the future, but
Speaker 1: we'll give you some resources in the Sister Peg segment
Speaker 1: to learn more about this. But I don't in this episode,
Speaker 1: we don't think that SVU is on the right side
Speaker 1: of history. Like when Olivia's like Backpage is helping trafficking,
Speaker 1: it kind of isn't in a lot of ways.
Speaker 2: So it actually helps sex workers stay safer, yeah, right,
Speaker 2: and so have to work with other.
Speaker 3: People, right.
Speaker 1: And also, if it's out there, it's monitored, If you're
Speaker 1: if it's out there, you can see this one agency
Speaker 1: is using sex workers that are under eighteen, or they
Speaker 1: are abusing their their workers. You know, like when everything
Speaker 1: goes underground, it's just so much harder for anyone to
Speaker 1: get fair treatment.
Speaker 2: And it's just like it's frustrating because it's all false,
Speaker 2: like you're saying you care about these people, and then
Speaker 2: when you have someone like Matt Gates or Jeffrey Epstein
Speaker 2: or people that are actually doing these crimes, suddenly you're
Speaker 2: all fucking silent about it. So that's another level that
Speaker 2: pisses me off. It's like you're pretending you care about
Speaker 2: these people and then when issues happen, nothing crickets.
Speaker 1: Right. So this is a much longer conversation, but we
Speaker 1: do have to get into today's crime. So yeah, we
Speaker 1: will share some more info with you during Sister Peg. Now,
Speaker 1: this episode Hunting Ground, some resources are saying that it's
Speaker 1: based on the Long Island Killer. That is like finding
Speaker 1: all those bodies on the beach is reminiscent of the
Speaker 1: Long Island Killer, who still has not been captured and
Speaker 1: is a very fascinating case. But I believe there are
Speaker 1: other svus that focus on that, and we'll hit that later.
Speaker 1: This case is definitely based on Robert Hanson, who aka
Speaker 1: the Butcher Baker of Anchorage, Alaska. Between nineteen seventy one
Speaker 1: and nineteen eighty three, he abducted, raped, and murdered at
Speaker 1: least seventeen women in and around Anchorage. But it's definitely
Speaker 1: more like it's thought to be in the twenties or
Speaker 1: maybe low thirties. His number of victims Alaska is very
Speaker 1: scary to me. I don't know, like, I'm sure we
Speaker 1: have Alaskan listeners who are amazing and cool and it
Speaker 1: seems very beautiful, but for some reason, it's like the
Speaker 1: long darkness periods and just the wilderness of it all
Speaker 1: makes me scared. But I would love to go there
Speaker 1: and an organized on an organized strip. So this guy's
Speaker 1: background is exactly like the episode right out of the
Speaker 1: in Cell's Handbook. He has a stutter and acne. Girls
Speaker 1: ignored him when he was growing up, and he grew
Speaker 1: up hating women and having like revenge fantasies about them.
Speaker 3: He takes up hunting and archery for fun.
Speaker 1: So you know, hunting and archer, I guess sounds kind
Speaker 1: of wholesome, unless you're a serial killer to be, and
Speaker 1: then it's a lot more of a red flag.
Speaker 3: In hunting's not wholesome.
Speaker 1: No, I hate hunting, but there's people that you listen
Speaker 1: to that are like it's part of the circle of life.
Speaker 3: And it's like it's sport.
Speaker 1: I mean, I have a friend whose husband hunts all
Speaker 1: the time and I have to like hide him on
Speaker 1: face book because it's always just him with like an
Speaker 1: innocent deer head, and I like can't stand it. But like,
Speaker 1: you know, it is an American pastime, not wholesome. It's
Speaker 1: not wholesome. Sorry, I stand correct. I'm just saying you
Speaker 1: can't say all hunters are going to be serial killers.
Speaker 2: No, but they're not wholesome. Killing a rabbit's not wholesome. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's just the wrong word.
Speaker 3: If you eat it.
Speaker 2: Uh oh, it's still not wholesome. Eating meat isn't wholesome.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: That word means like all good, like a daisy. Oh,
Speaker 2: daisy is how wholesome flower?
Speaker 3: You know? I don't know, maybe I don't know the word,
Speaker 3: but it seems like baking a pie or playing scrabble
Speaker 3: with your kids that seems wholesome.
Speaker 2: It says conducive to or suggestive of good health and
Speaker 2: physical well being.
Speaker 3: So, yeah, you're killing an animal.
Speaker 1: I guess it's not I yeah, but you are providing
Speaker 1: food for I don't know anyway, Sorry I said that word.
Speaker 3: Let's cut all of this.
Speaker 1: So in nineteen fifty seven he married a younger woman.
Speaker 1: I mean, he was like eighteen and fifty seven, so
Speaker 1: don't how much younger she could have been or no,
Speaker 1: And then in nineteen sixty he burnt down the school
Speaker 1: bus garage as revenge for being bullied in high school.
Speaker 3: And it's like, guess what, your high school bullies don't
Speaker 3: give a fuck that you burned down the school bus garage,
Speaker 3: Like no one cares.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure you know who cares is like
Speaker 1: the poor kids that have to get to school and
Speaker 1: like don't have a bus anymore. I don't really think
Speaker 1: that the old people are like, well, we should have
Speaker 1: been nicer to Robert anyway. He served twenty months of
Speaker 1: a three year sentence for that, and while in prison,
Speaker 1: he was diagnosed by polar and his wife filed for divorce.
Speaker 1: So now cuts in nineteen sixty seven, he's twenty eight
Speaker 1: years old. He's moved to Anchorage, Alaska. He's got a
Speaker 1: second wife and he's got two children with her. Okay,
Speaker 1: he's liked, He's well liked.
Speaker 3: In the community. It's crazy. His whole issue is like,
Speaker 3: I can't get chicks. Now he's on a second wife.
Speaker 3: I know what is the problem.
Speaker 1: It's too late though by then it's like you hate women.
Speaker 1: And also we'll get into it later. But this is
Speaker 1: like about and we know men like this. This is
Speaker 1: about the there are some good women, and there are,
Speaker 1: but there are a lot of bad women, Like there
Speaker 1: are good and bad women, like there are women whose
Speaker 1: lives don't mean anything, and there are women that are
Speaker 1: like pure and wholesome.
Speaker 3: Who are the people we know?
Speaker 1: We know people who have Madonna and horror complexes for sure.
Speaker 1: We can talk about it off Mike.
Speaker 3: Name name, name name. This is a cancelation podcast now,
Speaker 3: all right.
Speaker 1: So he was well liked, He had hunt he had
Speaker 1: records for hunting, like, he had a successful business as
Speaker 1: a baker. Okay, In nineteen seventy one, around when he
Speaker 1: was thirty two years old, he was arrested two times.
Speaker 1: Once was for the abduction and rape of a housewife,
Speaker 1: and then the second time was for the rape.
Speaker 3: Of a sex worker.
Speaker 1: So this man not only has arson in his past,
Speaker 1: cruelty to animals, and now two crimes against women. By
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy one, he pleaded no contest to assault with
Speaker 1: a deadly weapon in the housewife case, and then the
Speaker 1: rape charge involving the sex worker was dropped as part
Speaker 1: of a.
Speaker 3: Plea bargain, which is insane.
Speaker 1: He got five years in prison, and after serving six months,
Speaker 1: he was placed on a work release program and released
Speaker 1: to a halfway house.
Speaker 2: Like what the fuck, Well, this is just the answer
Speaker 2: when guys or anyone who's like, why doesn't she.
Speaker 3: Go to the cops?
Speaker 2: Go to the cops? Why don't you go to the cops?
Speaker 2: And it's like, go fuck yourself.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So in nineteen seventy six, he pleaded guilty to larseny
Speaker 1: when he was caught she stealing a chainsaw from a store,
Speaker 1: and he was sentenced to five years in prison and
Speaker 1: required to receive psychiatric treatment for his bipolar disorder. But
Speaker 1: the Alaskan Supreme Court reduced his sentence and he was
Speaker 1: released with time served, and three out of his four
Speaker 1: murders happened in those five years that he should have
Speaker 1: been in jail. So three of the four murders he
Speaker 1: was convicted for. Excuse me, he has many more. I
Speaker 1: am in rage. I know this is like the most
Speaker 1: enraging case. And it's like, you know what, this guy
Speaker 1: is just like Brewster. He's just like a gram winger
Speaker 1: in the episode, he's got glasses. Everyone's like, Oh, he's unassuming,
Speaker 1: he's a baker, he's got kids. Like all of these
Speaker 1: things that we just like assume make him a good guy.
Speaker 3: You know who else has kids?
Speaker 2: Everybody? Yeah, having kids does not make you a good
Speaker 2: or bad or better or worse person. You are still
Speaker 2: the same, right.
Speaker 1: It's believed that he started killing in nineteen seventy two,
Speaker 1: so he would have been around thirty three when he
Speaker 1: started killing. He would pick up sex workers in his
Speaker 1: car and or like lure them in with money and
Speaker 1: then force them at gunpoint to his cabin where he
Speaker 1: would then rape them, and then he would fly them
Speaker 1: to a secluded area and hunt them. He had a
Speaker 1: two person plane. He had a little like two person
Speaker 1: prop plane, which I bet is like common in Alaska.
Speaker 1: So yeah, he would like get them in this plane
Speaker 1: and like you're at private airports, you're not like going
Speaker 1: through security with like a woman. You know, you're not
Speaker 1: going through TSA. You're just like hopping in your own
Speaker 1: private plane and like puddle jumping over to an area
Speaker 1: where there's nothing like a forest preserve. Essentially, it's so sad.
Speaker 2: It's like Aliyah had to die, but not this guy.
Speaker 2: Why was crashing you are?
Speaker 1: I know.
Speaker 3: That is a crazy way to look at it. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And then he would hunt them as if they were
Speaker 1: wild game before shooting or stabbing them. So he is
Speaker 1: known to have raped and assaulted over thirty Alaskan women
Speaker 1: and to have murdered at least seventeen between the ages
Speaker 1: of sixteen and forty one. So a little bit of
Speaker 1: a timeline. In nineteen eighty, the first bodies are found.
Speaker 1: There's a woman is found. She still has not been identified.
Speaker 1: She was found by Ekluttna Road. I'm sorry if I'm
Speaker 1: saying that wrong. And she was dubbed ek Lutna Annie
Speaker 1: by investigators. And she has a Wikipedia page and it's
Speaker 1: like a drawing of what she probably looked like when
Speaker 1: she was alive.
Speaker 3: It's crazy.
Speaker 1: And then later that year the body of Joanna Messina
Speaker 1: was discovered, and then in nineteen eighty two, twenty three
Speaker 1: year old Sherry Moro was discovered in a shallow grave
Speaker 1: near the Nick River. And then in nineteen eighty three,
Speaker 1: Paula Golding is found in a shallow grave on the
Speaker 1: bank of the Nick River. Now, these are the four
Speaker 1: cases that he gets convicted of that I just read.
Speaker 1: There are many more victims, but these are the four
Speaker 1: that he was convicted of. And the creepiest thing about
Speaker 1: Paula when they found her body, she'd been shot in
Speaker 1: the back, but there were no bullet holes in her clothes,
Speaker 1: which means he basically probably hunted her naked and then
Speaker 1: dressed her before he buried her. Just, I mean, just
Speaker 1: so you can't even I gotta stop researching these before
Speaker 1: I go to sleep. Okay, So the last two bodies
Speaker 1: that they found, Paula and Sherry, they were able to link.
Speaker 1: They found bullet casings and ballistics linked these cases together.
Speaker 1: So they're like, we've got a serial killer going on here.
Speaker 1: So then in June ofated nineteen eighty three, a huge
Speaker 1: thing happens. At this point, like they think this guy's
Speaker 1: been killing for over a decade. Now, he offers a
Speaker 1: seventeen year old sex worker named Cindy Paulson two hundred
Speaker 1: dollars for oral sex. She describes him as like wiry,
Speaker 1: you know, six feet tab with glasses in a stutter.
Speaker 1: She didn't think he was threatening, Okay, so she gets
Speaker 1: in his car. He pulls the gun on her, drives
Speaker 1: her to his home, not sure where the wife and
Speaker 1: kids are, holds her captive, like chains her up in
Speaker 1: his den, like her wrists up, and like tortures her
Speaker 1: and sexually assaults her, and then drives her to the
Speaker 1: airport to take her to his little hunting ground, which
Speaker 1: is like a shack in the Nick River area of
Speaker 1: the Matanuska Valley, accessible only by boat or bush plane.
Speaker 1: So it's like you can't even And I Google mapped
Speaker 1: all of this. Like the area where he picked her
Speaker 1: up is like very close to the airport and to
Speaker 1: like dead the downtown of Anchorage, I think. And he
Speaker 1: was like telling her on the way to the airport,
Speaker 1: He's like, I already have a friend who's willing to
Speaker 1: lie to me for my alibi. So like even if
Speaker 1: you were to get away, no one's going to believe you,
Speaker 1: Like I'm I'm clean, Like you're never gonna no one's
Speaker 1: gonna believe you're like you're a.
Speaker 3: Sex worker, blah blah blah.
Speaker 1: While he's loading like a gun into the plane's cockpit
Speaker 1: and doing all like his business to get the plane ready,
Speaker 1: she sees her moment she's handcuffed in the back of
Speaker 1: the car. She runs out of the car. She runs
Speaker 1: onto sixth Avenue, which is like a pretty busy street,
Speaker 1: gets a truck to pick her up. She specifically said
Speaker 1: she left her blue sneakers behind in the car as
Speaker 1: proof that she was there.
Speaker 3: They do this in SVU a lot. I'm always like very.
Speaker 1: Impressed that victims have like the wherewithal to like leave
Speaker 1: earbuds or like leave you know, something that is there
Speaker 1: is behind so that it shows that they were there.
Speaker 1: So she manages to flag down this truck. He drives
Speaker 1: her to this inn. The inn is so close to
Speaker 1: the airport. I mapped all of this to get an
Speaker 1: idea of it. It's like right across the street from
Speaker 1: the airport. And she takes a cab to the Big
Speaker 1: Timber Hotel to meet her boyfriend. But the truck driver
Speaker 1: who dropped her off has already called nine to one one,
Speaker 1: and so the cops show up at the first inn.
Speaker 3: Then they find her at the second inn. She's still
Speaker 3: in handcuffs.
Speaker 1: She's like hysterical, she's uh, tells them everything that happen.
Speaker 1: I watched a full FBI Files episode on this, which
Speaker 1: is like investigation discoverage's very cheesy reenactments and stuff like
Speaker 1: forensic bals.
Speaker 3: And she was very credible according to all.
Speaker 1: Of the like the guys, like she had every detail,
Speaker 1: she knew exactly what happened. She could describe things like
Speaker 1: she was a very credible witness and like the story
Speaker 1: was too insane to be made up. On her way
Speaker 1: to the station, they're taking her to the station, she goes,
Speaker 1: pull into the airport.
Speaker 3: I want to show you the plane. So they go in.
Speaker 3: She sees the plane.
Speaker 1: A security guy walks up and goes, oh, yeah, the
Speaker 1: guy who owns this plane like just left, and the
Speaker 1: security guard had out like a license plate number on him,
Speaker 1: Like had noticed the license plate, I guess. So they
Speaker 1: positively ideed that it's Robert Hanson's car. They get the
Speaker 1: address from the license plate. They go to his house.
Speaker 1: He fits the description exactly of who she said held
Speaker 1: her captive and assaulted her. His home is exactly as
Speaker 1: Cindy described. No evidence of rape and torture at the
Speaker 1: house at all, Like the cuffs that she was hung
Speaker 1: up with, like nothing is there anymore, the blanket, the
Speaker 1: gun he pulled on her, like they can't find any
Speaker 1: of that. His car is totally clean, and he had
Speaker 1: alibis which the police verified. So even though he had
Speaker 1: plenty of high run ins with the law, this like
Speaker 1: little innocent guy at thing he had going on, plus
Speaker 1: the fact that he was like a well known sort
Speaker 1: of local baker, plus this alibi he had from a
Speaker 1: friend who made it up, kept him from being considered
Speaker 1: as a serious suspect, and the case went cold, I
Speaker 1: mean insane, Like she has all the information, but she's
Speaker 1: the seventeen year old sex worker. She refused to take
Speaker 1: a light detector because she doesn't trust cops, and the
Speaker 1: cops don't trust her because she's a sex worker.
Speaker 3: So it's like such a fuck situation.
Speaker 2: Ironically, the cops didn't believe her, or there just wasn't
Speaker 2: enough evidence to prosecute, you know, I.
Speaker 1: Think, yeah, I think there probably wasn't enough evidence to
Speaker 1: get him as because to me.
Speaker 2: It's like, how else do you describe this woman's shoeless, handcuffed,
Speaker 2: running like what are you talking?
Speaker 1: No, exactly exactly, And luckily there were some good cops here.
Speaker 1: So ironically there was a cop who listened to her
Speaker 1: would not drop the case because she just thought her
Speaker 1: story was too detailed. His name was Officer Baker, which
Speaker 1: is creepy because he's actually looking for a Baker. He
Speaker 1: knew something was off about Hanson, so he kind of
Speaker 1: was working on the case even though it had been suspended.
Speaker 3: He's kind of working like.
Speaker 1: You know, he's sort of breaking the rules a little
Speaker 1: bit here, and he keeps looking into things. He gathers
Speaker 1: everything up and he gives it to the State Troopers
Speaker 1: because I guess they have probably more resources and they
Speaker 1: knew that they had a mass murder on their hands
Speaker 1: and that they were like the Alaskan State Troopers were
Speaker 1: like not equipped to handle that. So the detective Glenn
Speaker 1: Foth of the Alaska State Troopers contacts the FBI to
Speaker 1: get a profile. They get help from John Douglas, who
Speaker 1: is the guy who wrote the book that Minehunter is
Speaker 1: based on. Mine Hunter inside the FBI's Elite Serial Crime Unit,
Speaker 1: which is a book that my brother in law did
Speaker 1: give me for Christmas. One year, he only gives me
Speaker 1: true crime books. He thinks that's like the only thing
Speaker 1: that I have to my personality. And I started reading it.
Speaker 1: It's a little bit dry, so I couldn't really get
Speaker 1: through it, but it is like he is who the
Speaker 1: mind hunter people are based on, and he is who
Speaker 1: two characters on Criminal Minds are based on. So he
Speaker 1: is one of the leading guys in criminal profiling and
Speaker 1: serial killer profiling at this time. And like he goes
Speaker 1: to Alaska, like I mean, he's fully involved in this case,
Speaker 1: which is really kind of cool if you're like into
Speaker 1: this kind of thing. So his profile of Hanson is
Speaker 1: that he's an experienced hunter with low self esteem, he
Speaker 1: has a history of being rejected by women, and that
Speaker 1: he would be compelled to keep souvenirs of his murders,
Speaker 1: such as victims jewelry. He also suggested that the assailant
Speaker 1: might stutter and has a history of arson, Like five
Speaker 1: points right on the nose. I mean, this guy burnt
Speaker 1: down a bus garage. He was keeping jewelry, like the
Speaker 1: whole thing. So Hanson knows the cops are closing in
Speaker 1: on him, but the cops don't really have enough evidence yet.
Speaker 1: So finally, in October of nineteen eighty three, this is
Speaker 1: four months after no one believed this poor traumatized sex
Speaker 1: worker that this psychotic baker tried to kill her, The
Speaker 1: Anchorage Police Department gets a warren for Hanson's plane, vehicles,
Speaker 1: and home and they bring him in for questioning at
Speaker 1: the same time so that they can kind of go
Speaker 1: through his house. They put him in a room like
Speaker 1: with crime scene photos all over the walls and like
Speaker 1: the names of the victims and stuff like that to
Speaker 1: kind of throw them off immediately, and they want to
Speaker 1: intimidate him before they start questioning him. So he admits
Speaker 1: to having a lot of anger towards women and picking
Speaker 1: up sex workers, but he doesn't admit to any crimes. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: they're searching his house. They find an array of fire
Speaker 1: arms in a corner hideaway of his attic. Like they
Speaker 1: had to like peel back insulation to find this shit.
Speaker 1: This guy was really hiding stuff. They find an aeronautical chart,
Speaker 1: a full chart of the whole area with thirty seven
Speaker 1: little x's on it. Okay, that's hidden behind his headboard,
Speaker 1: and many of those marks match sites where prior bodies
Speaker 1: had been found. So this guy just had like a
Speaker 1: full map of like what you hear about in movies.
Speaker 1: It's like he had a map of all his kills.
Speaker 1: And he denied killing some of the women that were found,
Speaker 1: but their bodies were like right where the exes were,
Speaker 1: so it's like, I don't really believe you. And then
Speaker 1: as they're searching his house, a neighbor comes by and
Speaker 1: tells authorities that her husband had given him a fake alibi.
Speaker 1: She's like, my husband gave him a fake albi. He
Speaker 1: feels bad. He didn't know how serious the charges were.
Speaker 1: He didn't know what was going on. Like this guy
Speaker 1: probably thought he was like, oh, don't I don't want
Speaker 1: my wife to know I brought home a sex worker, right,
Speaker 1: and so he gave an alibi. He called the station
Speaker 1: and recanted the alibi. So now Hanson's alibi is gone.
Speaker 1: Then they discover all this jewelry belonging to the missing women,
Speaker 1: so it's like they're just knocking off check the checklist
Speaker 1: of this guy being busted. So when confronted with the
Speaker 1: evidence that they found in his home, he denied it
Speaker 1: for as long as possible, but he eventually started to
Speaker 1: blame the women and justify his actions. And he eventually
Speaker 1: confessed to each item as it was presented to him,
Speaker 1: and he admitted to a spree of attacks against Alaskan.
Speaker 3: Women that started in nineteen seventy one.
Speaker 1: He said his earliest victims were women usually between sixteen
Speaker 1: and nineteen, and not sex workers, so like most of
Speaker 1: the women that they discovered of the bodies were sex workers.
Speaker 1: But and at the beginning, he also would just pick
Speaker 1: up women and sort of take them places, and I
Speaker 1: think just get sexual services from them, but I think
Speaker 1: he was working his way up to being able to
Speaker 1: fully kidnap them. So of the seventeen women who he
Speaker 1: is believed to have killed, he was only formally charged
Speaker 1: for the murders of four Cherry Morrow, join A Messina,
Speaker 1: A Klutna Annie, and Paula Golding. And he was also
Speaker 1: charged with the kidnapping and rape of Cindy Paulson, so
Speaker 1: she got some justice hopefully.
Speaker 3: The judge who saw his case in.
Speaker 1: Nineteen eighty four, when he was finally by before a judge, said,
Speaker 1: I cannot think of a bigger indictment of society than
Speaker 1: we have here. This gentleman here has been known to
Speaker 1: us for several years, and we have turned him loose
Speaker 1: several times.
Speaker 3: He said.
Speaker 1: The defendant manipulated the system, lied to psychiatrists, lawyers, and
Speaker 1: probation workers, and counted on his image as a respected
Speaker 1: business person to protect him from charges brought over the
Speaker 1: years by sex workers who accused him of rape. He said,
Speaker 1: before you, this is what the judge said before you.
Speaker 1: Sits a monster, an extreme aberration of a human being
Speaker 1: who has walked among us. Not even his wife of
Speaker 1: twenty years had any inkling of his dark evil side.
Speaker 1: His crimes numbed the mind. So this guy stays making deals.
Speaker 1: He still is making deals even though he's fully busted.
Speaker 1: He played guilty to the four homicides, and the police
Speaker 1: had evidence for and provided details about the other victims.
Speaker 1: In return for serving his sentence in a federal prison
Speaker 1: outside of Alaska, along.
Speaker 3: With no publicity for the trial. They had to agree
Speaker 3: that there would be no publicity for the trial. Is nuts.
Speaker 3: When do criminals get to decide that? But if he
Speaker 3: pleaded guilty, what trial, I don't know. Some deal of
Speaker 3: there was like a deal of him not but they have.
Speaker 2: The thing that's wild is they had all the cards
Speaker 2: why is he still making the rules.
Speaker 3: I'm very confused by this deal. Like they also part
Speaker 3: of the deal was that his family be left alone.
Speaker 1: It's like crazy, Like I do not understand how this
Speaker 1: motherfucker's still cutting deals.
Speaker 3: But he gave them all this information about the other bodies,
Speaker 3: and it's like, well.
Speaker 1: Don't those families want like closure and like have that
Speaker 1: on his record. I mean, he ends up getting a
Speaker 1: I'll get to it, but he gets a huge sentence.
Speaker 1: So he also was part of his plea deal was
Speaker 1: that he had to decipher the map for the authorities,
Speaker 1: and he confirmed the police theory of how the women
Speaker 1: were abducted, adding that he would sometimes let a potential
Speaker 1: victim go if she convinced him that she would not
Speaker 1: report him to the police. Yeah, he said he began
Speaker 1: killing in the seventies. He showed investigators seventeen grave sites,
Speaker 1: twelve of which were unknown to investigators previously, so he
Speaker 1: did like help give closure and find these bodies and stuff.
Speaker 1: There remained marks on his map that he refused to
Speaker 1: give up, including three in Resurrection Bay.
Speaker 3: I wonder why. I don't know.
Speaker 1: The remains of twelve victims were exhumed by the police
Speaker 1: and return to their families. DA Victor Crumb said, mister
Speaker 1: Hanson told police he had suffered a quote feeling of
Speaker 1: rejection by women since he was a youth in Iowa.
Speaker 1: He nevertheless liked and respected women who he felt, in
Speaker 1: his mind were good. So it's like you get to
Speaker 1: decide who are good women and who are bad women.
Speaker 1: The women that were his victims, he considered them inferior,
Speaker 1: so it was all right to kill them, like that's
Speaker 1: what the DA said was in his mind.
Speaker 3: In nineteen eighty four, he was sentenced to.
Speaker 1: By a jury to four hundred and sixty one years
Speaker 1: plus life in prison without the possibility of pearl.
Speaker 3: So four hundred and sixty one years, he's never getting out.
Speaker 1: And then he did die in prison at the age
Speaker 1: of seventy five and twenty fourteen. And ironically they did
Speaker 1: bring him back to a jail in Alaska, so he
Speaker 1: didn't get that part of his deal that he wanted.
Speaker 1: And yes, before you all write us Instagram messages, Criminal
Speaker 1: Minds has also covered this case. Yes, as well as
Speaker 1: SVU and so his discovery ID and Oxygen. This is
Speaker 1: a very well known case.
Speaker 2: I didn't know anything about it. Yeah, and I'm I'm mad.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's like it's I watched the FBI
Speaker 1: Files thing. It was like Sherry Moral, one of his victims,
Speaker 1: was like he contacted her through something saying he was
Speaker 1: a photographer and she was an aspiring model and he
Speaker 1: just wanted she just wanted some photos taken, and he
Speaker 1: would like make her meet him some more public and
Speaker 1: then pick her up and then.
Speaker 3: Just hunt them.
Speaker 1: Like I mean, the reenactments were like silly, but like
Speaker 1: what they did in SVU, I thought, we was really scary.
Speaker 2: N we have been falling, Like how long he hunted them,
Speaker 2: like the ketamine part or anything like that.
Speaker 1: I don't think the ketamine part was I think that
Speaker 1: was added from the SCU episode.
Speaker 3: He just shot her, stabbed them.
Speaker 2: The fact that but he did not get years and
Speaker 2: years in prison from his first two assault charges and
Speaker 2: rapes is like.
Speaker 3: It's mind boggling. How many dozens of women had to die, yeah,
Speaker 3: saying scary tragic deaths.
Speaker 1: Well, and you see in our system people that have
Speaker 1: petty crimes, they follow them forever, people of color, but
Speaker 1: like these white men can have like horrible like a
Speaker 1: full ascension to serial killerhood and no one stops it.
Speaker 3: You know, so kind of.
Speaker 1: A fucked up episode, but I hope you guys sort
Speaker 1: of enjoyed hearing about it.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Let's let's get to our interview all right, Time for
Speaker 1: our guest of the week. We're so excited to talk
Speaker 1: to this actress, songwriter, podcaster, truly a triple threat. She
Speaker 1: has a new music album that just came out called
Speaker 1: The Supporting Character. She has her own podcast called My
Speaker 1: Caffeine Withdrawal, available anywhere you get podcasts. And you also
Speaker 1: may know her from a little show called The Walking
Speaker 1: Dead on AMC where she played Beth Green. Guys, check
Speaker 1: out our convo with Emily Kinney. A lot of people
Speaker 1: have asked for this episode because I will say this
Speaker 1: is I've been watching s for you since the very beginning.
Speaker 1: I've seen every episode multiple times, but this one like
Speaker 1: really sticks in your head. It's like very very haunting.
Speaker 1: I mean, you must have when you got the script
Speaker 1: where you like, whoa.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it was very creepy, particularly like the day something
Speaker 5: about like running around in the woods. Yeah, I think
Speaker 5: that's I think they only get like one shot of
Speaker 5: like it's not a big deal in the TV show,
Speaker 5: but it was a whole day just because you had
Speaker 5: to like be on a different location and stuff and
Speaker 5: something about like getting all like bruised up and like
Speaker 5: running through the forest where it's like this game of
Speaker 5: him hunting.
Speaker 6: Us or whatever.
Speaker 5: Like I remember that day being sort of just like
Speaker 5: really dark and weird, like just imagining running around in
Speaker 5: a forest someone hunting you in this certain way, you know,
Speaker 5: like my clothes were all ripped.
Speaker 6: And like, yeah, so that I remember that.
Speaker 5: Day just like really sticking in my brain like in
Speaker 5: a weird way.
Speaker 3: And we need to know.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, Kara, but I have to know. Was amorrow hot?
Speaker 2: Is he very hot? In person? Danny Pino?
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, yeah, you know what.
Speaker 5: I think that was like the only scene I actually
Speaker 5: had him, and it's like him breaking in, right, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 5: he's so like, yeah, it's only him like breaking in.
Speaker 6: So I didn't have like a ton of interaction with him.
Speaker 7: I feel like I maybe had a little bit of
Speaker 7: interaction with him at like a crafty table at one point,
Speaker 7: oh okay, where like it was like his scene and
Speaker 7: then my scene wasn't, like it wasn't a scene we
Speaker 7: had together.
Speaker 6: Like my scene was the next kind of but like
Speaker 6: that's but yeah, I mean he's hot.
Speaker 3: Sure.
Speaker 5: I am kind of more into like skinny sad boy
Speaker 5: musician type.
Speaker 6: So like he's not really.
Speaker 5: Like like tattoos, Like it's just not he's not really
Speaker 5: my type.
Speaker 3: But honest with us, that's sure.
Speaker 6: He's he's obviously very you know, good looking. Yeah, he's good.
Speaker 2: He doesn't it talked about in a hotness way like
Speaker 2: other characters get more hot chats. So I just needed
Speaker 2: to know does he penetrate through his annoying character?
Speaker 5: Oh?
Speaker 6: No, he I mean he is very good looking.
Speaker 3: Well I didn't.
Speaker 5: I didn't look past I mean he's yeah, very like
Speaker 5: strikingly good looking.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 5: I was just saying like he's not.
Speaker 3: Really hurt me, which I totally get.
Speaker 1: That's how I feel about That's how I feel about
Speaker 1: a lot of detectives on the show that our fans
Speaker 1: are like very horny for.
Speaker 3: Are you a New York person?
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, well I live in LA now, but
Speaker 5: I lived in New York for like ten years.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 5: Like I moved it to New York when I was nineteen.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we were reading about you and you did like
Speaker 1: some Broadway stuff and where did they film Walking Dead.
Speaker 5: They filmed Walking Dead in Atlanta, so it's a pretty
Speaker 5: easy fight.
Speaker 6: So I would just the first.
Speaker 5: Season or so that I was on, I would just
Speaker 5: fly back and forth, and then eventually I stayed longer,
Speaker 5: you know, just depended on how busy I was.
Speaker 2: And SVU, you can imagine, is like a wild fan base.
Speaker 2: We're all very obsessed, and then Looking Dead has very
Speaker 2: intense fan base. Any fun fan interactions or like, do
Speaker 2: you guys do comic con or stuff like that, Like
Speaker 2: I would be curious to find out about that fan base.
Speaker 6: No, yeah, the best fans, you're right, similar.
Speaker 5: To SVU fans, well, you know where it is almost
Speaker 5: like you all are connected online and you know have
Speaker 5: in this really great way and supportive. Yeah. I mean
Speaker 5: I've had so many great interactions with Walking Dead fans.
Speaker 5: I mean some of them are like I do go
Speaker 5: to conventions like comic book conventions, and obviously not in
Speaker 5: the last year, but you know, I'll see some of
Speaker 5: the same ones, so you start to get to know
Speaker 5: the fans or just even online. But yeah, I mean
Speaker 5: some of I've seen with like you know, tattoos of.
Speaker 6: My face and stuff and like that.
Speaker 5: Always I mean that's it makes me. I'm I mean,
Speaker 5: go for it, like I guess through them. It's like, oh,
Speaker 5: it's the character, you know. But it's like sometimes all
Speaker 5: think to myself, huh, like not even like my mom
Speaker 5: has a tattoo of my face.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 6: It's like but I also respect it.
Speaker 5: I mean, I am such a fan when it comes
Speaker 5: to certain music stuff, so like I'll get you know,
Speaker 5: like I get it, like I love I think it's
Speaker 5: fun to be excited about art.
Speaker 1: So wait, we were I was just thinking about how,
Speaker 1: like you have to do this scene where you're like
Speaker 1: being hunted and have to run through the woods and
Speaker 1: like survive for your life, like and that's essentially walking
Speaker 1: dead too, right, Like I mean was that like were
Speaker 1: you well prepared because you'd already done walking dead?
Speaker 5: Yeah? I mean I feel like there was a period
Speaker 5: there were most of my jobs I was like scared
Speaker 5: and crying sort of like yeah, I was well prepared
Speaker 5: for running through the woods, you know, all fucked up
Speaker 5: and like, yeah, scared of something like I do remember
Speaker 5: thinking to myself like huh, yeah, okay, I got another
Speaker 5: one of these.
Speaker 2: Do you have nightmares or just do you ever take
Speaker 2: those emotions and like can't get them out of your
Speaker 2: spirit post work.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean I do know actors like I have
Speaker 5: actor friends who seem to be able to just like
Speaker 5: like talking to you and like eating a sandwich and
Speaker 5: then they're in the scene and like sad and crying,
Speaker 5: and I'm like.
Speaker 6: I like I for better or for worse, I.
Speaker 5: Don't know, but like when I'm writing music, when I'm
Speaker 5: acting whatever, I like internalize it in a certain way.
Speaker 5: I don't know if it's always healthy, but I after
Speaker 5: like season three of Walking Dead, I did have some
Speaker 5: serious I don't know if it was because of that
Speaker 5: or other life, but like because you'd have to stay
Speaker 5: all day in like this crying zone, I would just
Speaker 5: have a time once I got home getting.
Speaker 3: Out of it.
Speaker 5: Because if you think about like your natural This is
Speaker 5: just from learning from my therapist at the time too,
Speaker 5: but like you know, when you cry, you know how
Speaker 5: you kind of like start to feel better, You kind
Speaker 5: of naturally feel like and that's kind of like the
Speaker 5: natural wave of your emotions. But when you're on set
Speaker 5: and you have to do a scene over and over
Speaker 5: and over again, you're trying to like push yourself to
Speaker 5: stay in that same spot, right, and like I feel
Speaker 5: like sometimes especially because Walking Dead, but just because it
Speaker 5: was like not just one episode, it was like for
Speaker 5: a you know, for a long long time, I would
Speaker 5: go home and like the smallest thing would like make
Speaker 5: me cry, and I'm like, this is ridiculous, Like I don't.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 5: But I think it's because my brain was just getting
Speaker 5: so used to getting like triggered into like that sad zone.
Speaker 5: I mean, I don't know, maybe I do think other
Speaker 5: actors sometimes have that your friends, where it's like you
Speaker 5: can get into a zone because it's like you're just
Speaker 5: all day in a certain you know, spot in your
Speaker 5: brain and I'll have dreams like I used to have,
Speaker 5: you know, zombie dreams, and like just like yeah, I
Speaker 5: don't remember having dreams oft sbu probably because it was
Speaker 5: just like one.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I don't know, one episode.
Speaker 1: I'm glad you didn't have dreams of a guy hunting
Speaker 1: you in the woods.
Speaker 3: But the zombie dreams do you are?
Speaker 2: Is it like do you know what to do because
Speaker 2: of the show, You're like, I fucking got no.
Speaker 5: In fact, well, there's two that were really intense for me.
Speaker 5: There was one where I was just like in my
Speaker 5: off time in New York, and it was like people
Speaker 5: were zombies, like the different people. And then there was
Speaker 5: one dream that has stuck with me where I was
Speaker 5: in LA and I was like at a party and
Speaker 5: people were saying like, oh, there's some people that are
Speaker 5: like starting to turn like becomes, and people were asking
Speaker 5: me what to do, and I was like I don't
Speaker 5: know what to do, Like I don't know, and it
Speaker 5: was very stressful, like people ask you like like you
Speaker 5: should know, and I was like, I don't know what
Speaker 5: to do.
Speaker 1: You guys like, wait, did you ever listen to the
Speaker 1: podcast Dirty John?
Speaker 6: No, I watched some of the TV show, So did
Speaker 6: you hear did.
Speaker 1: You know that? Like in real life he tries to
Speaker 1: kill his wife's daughter and she basically fights back and
Speaker 1: kills him because she learned all these survival skills.
Speaker 3: On The Walking Dead.
Speaker 1: What she says it in interviews in the podcast, she's like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, walking Dead fan. She seems a little
Speaker 1: bit I don't know, I don't know something's going on
Speaker 1: with her. But she was very into The Walking Dead.
Speaker 1: And when this guy, when this her mother's boyfriend, who's
Speaker 1: this grifter, attacks her in the parking lot. She basically
Speaker 1: was able to fight back from watching so much Walking
Speaker 1: Dead is what she said.
Speaker 3: Interesting, you guys are saving you know what.
Speaker 6: I'm yeah, happy, thank you.
Speaker 5: Yes, you know, there is something about just I mean,
Speaker 5: I think any part as an actor, the thing that
Speaker 5: I love is that you get to like uncover a
Speaker 5: part of you that you maybe didn't even know was there.
Speaker 5: And and I do think some of the fighting and
Speaker 5: stuff that happened on Walking Dead are things that maybe
Speaker 5: I hadn't thought of or pushed myself to do before,
Speaker 5: like you know, and there is an element of like, yeah,
Speaker 5: I mean, what would you do during the apocalypse and
Speaker 5: like what supplies do you need in your house if
Speaker 5: something like that happens? And like I definitely have an
Speaker 5: idea now of what that would be, you know, so
Speaker 5: maybe I do know more.
Speaker 6: Like just because I've thought about it.
Speaker 5: I don't know that I wouldn't necessarily survive any better,
Speaker 5: but I definitely there's like a library of sort of
Speaker 5: ideas of what we could do you have to survive
Speaker 5: and like, and I'm.
Speaker 1: Sure you do some like don't you do? Do you
Speaker 1: do some like combat training or whatever? Like on those sets, Yeah.
Speaker 5: We shot guns and we did a lot of like
Speaker 5: stunt fight training and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: And has Walking Dad prepped you for the quarantine like
Speaker 1: being again?
Speaker 5: People are calling me at the beginning of this whole thing,
Speaker 5: like it's happening.
Speaker 6: What should we do on my land? I'm like, I
Speaker 6: don't know what you should do.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you cuz you both in this,
Speaker 1: in your SVU and in Walking Dead, you're sixteen, but
Speaker 1: you're actually like in your twenties, like kind of into
Speaker 1: your twenties playing them, Right, what do you do to
Speaker 1: like keep getting casts as a high schooler?
Speaker 6: I think it's just the Pony two.
Speaker 5: I don't know, Like I don't know, like I do
Speaker 5: feel like I in I mean, I feel like I'm
Speaker 5: starting to look older and like I have this I
Speaker 5: really like, I can't wait. I've gone to play a
Speaker 5: mom once, like, well, I guess in SVU, I'm playing
Speaker 5: a young very because I'm a very young, sixteen year
Speaker 5: ol mom. And then the last show I did, Messiah
Speaker 5: for Netflix, I'm a mom and I loved it, and
Speaker 5: I have like I think it's gonna start to switch
Speaker 5: over to that maybe just like.
Speaker 6: A young mom thing. Yeah, but yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 6: I think I just am like immature, but maybe not
Speaker 6: in like a.
Speaker 5: Bad way, not like in a bad way, but like
Speaker 5: I just come across a cert I don't know, but
Speaker 5: like I love playing young because I've been there before,
Speaker 5: Like I can't seem to shake it.
Speaker 3: Like that's cool though, Hey, that's great.
Speaker 5: I mean, I mean, I don't know people are going
Speaker 5: to be like you're like forty, like.
Speaker 6: You need to grow up.
Speaker 5: But the way I figure it, like you have literally
Speaker 5: forever to grow up, so like you might as well.
Speaker 6: Right, I mean grow up in certain ways.
Speaker 5: I don't mean like be responsible, like I'm responsible, but
Speaker 5: you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: Is there anything that you learned, like in your career
Speaker 2: being a guest star on all these shows that you
Speaker 2: brought with you to Walking Dead, being like a main
Speaker 2: person when like a guest star someone would come in.
Speaker 3: Is there any lessons for sure?
Speaker 5: I mean I feel like, yeah, when you're a guest star,
Speaker 5: you're a guest on their set, and you.
Speaker 6: Do look to the regulars a little bit.
Speaker 5: For I mean, I have my own ways that I
Speaker 5: know I'm going to do my.
Speaker 6: Best work, so I like, of course have that, but I.
Speaker 5: Do look to them for a little bit of like
Speaker 5: I guess, like the thing that I took to Walking
Speaker 5: Dead because there's a lot of guest stars and Walking
Speaker 5: Dead too, is like being really welcoming and being really
Speaker 5: like comfy, because I feel like I do my best
Speaker 5: work when I get to have a longer arc than
Speaker 5: just one one episode, because like there's something about like
Speaker 5: knowing the hair and makeup a little bit better, knowing
Speaker 5: the camera guys better. No, you know, knowing the other
Speaker 5: actors you're working with a little bit better. Like I
Speaker 5: do really work well when I have a little bit
Speaker 5: of a routine, but when you're a guest star, you
Speaker 5: obviously you just know that's not what you're going to get,
Speaker 5: so you just kind of have to like go for it.
Speaker 5: But knowing that, like I like to have that little
Speaker 5: bit of extra comfort, I do try to be like
Speaker 5: really welcoming and try to provide whatever to guest stars.
Speaker 1: You hear about shows where like people come on to
Speaker 1: guests and they're like, oh, the main cast is like
Speaker 1: bonded and they didn't really talk to us and they
Speaker 1: didn't really let us in and stuff, and like people
Speaker 1: sound like SV is not really like that, Like people
Speaker 1: are pretty like open to yeah, the stars and let
Speaker 1: everybody in. Yeah.
Speaker 5: I felt like everybody was very like, how's he doing?
Speaker 6: How are you doing? You would would you have for lunch?
Speaker 6: You know, like I feel like everybody on SVU.
Speaker 5: Is very cool like that. I remember talking to Kelly.
Speaker 6: She was Kelly Gettish.
Speaker 3: Yeah. It was like one of her first seasons, I think.
Speaker 5: Yeah, And so the day that was really long where
Speaker 5: everything was happening just at the studio because there's like
Speaker 5: on location stuff and stuff that she was there and
Speaker 5: she was waiting for some of her scenes too.
Speaker 6: And actually, fun fun fact, I.
Speaker 5: Used to work at this coffee shop called Gimme Coffee.
Speaker 5: And Kelly used to work on a show called The Burg,
Speaker 5: which was a YouTube show and they would shoot around Williamsburg.
Speaker 5: So this coffee shop was Gimme Coffee and it was
Speaker 5: off of the lorm Or stop in Williamsburg.
Speaker 6: That was like my first job.
Speaker 5: I'm like twenty years old in New York City and
Speaker 5: they would be shooting around Williamsburg and they would come in.
Speaker 5: So I had actually met her before, and I remember
Speaker 5: I think I remember reminding her that I was like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 5: you know, like we've met, or like I kind of
Speaker 5: know like the other girl that's in this show called
Speaker 5: The Burg, Lindsay, and you know, like I knew, like
Speaker 5: like we were in like the same zone of this
Speaker 5: period of time in Williamsburg when she was working on
Speaker 5: this YouTube show and I was working on working at
Speaker 5: a coffee shop.
Speaker 2: Which leads us perfectly into your podcast.
Speaker 6: Oh to my podcast.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's about caffee.
Speaker 5: Oh it is about Yeah, I have a deep love
Speaker 5: for coffee, coffee shop culture like that whole you know,
Speaker 5: and music. And so if if your listeners love want
Speaker 5: a new podcast, listen to an addition, mind's.
Speaker 6: All about like music.
Speaker 5: And so what I do is I people that I'm
Speaker 5: fans of, like music that I'm fans of, I'll invite
Speaker 5: them to have coffee with me on my show. And
Speaker 5: then they usually either make me the coffee that they drink,
Speaker 5: or maybe we just talk about what coffee they're drinking
Speaker 5: or what their like morning routine is, and then we
Speaker 5: talk about like writing songs and music and yeah.
Speaker 3: Wow, what a sweetheart. That was fun. That was a
Speaker 3: fun talk. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Now I want coffee actually always, I actually read that
Speaker 2: if you're craving coffee, that's actually a sign of like
Speaker 2: sugar addiction too.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I didn't.
Speaker 1: I felt I didn't want to tell her that I
Speaker 1: am a for in my life coffee drinker.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I forget that you don't like coffee. Since
Speaker 2: I've started eating like a healthier I've been like coffee
Speaker 2: every day. I need it so hardcore. What have I
Speaker 2: learned from this horrific episode? Yeah, let's get into our
Speaker 2: post mortem. I mean, follow your gut, don't ever get
Speaker 2: into a car, take a credit card no matter what appointment,
Speaker 2: take photos of ID I mean, no one can be trusted. Sorry,
Speaker 2: it's the world we live in.
Speaker 1: Yes, please see our instagram for Lisa's joke about how
Speaker 1: she spread her DNA around a guy's apartment during a hookup.
Speaker 3: It is one of my favorite jokes.
Speaker 2: And I would like to say that guy that the
Speaker 2: joke is based on I haven't seen in like years,
Speaker 2: contacted me. We were like, okay, let's get some phone
Speaker 2: sex situations going in.
Speaker 3: The middle of sex. Disappeared.
Speaker 2: This happened yesterday or two days ago. He was like,
Speaker 2: oh yeah, and then stopped responding or looking at me
Speaker 2: and said, and I think he's been murdered. No, he
Speaker 2: keeps posting on Instagram and I want to block him,
Speaker 2: bock him because I'm livid, But I also like, if
Speaker 2: he gets mad, he can definitely ruin my life and
Speaker 2: post so many photos of me and compromising situations.
Speaker 3: So I don't know what to do.
Speaker 1: Anyway, just because someone has a dog in their car
Speaker 1: doesn't mean you should trust them. I once took a
Speaker 1: ride with a stranger in Italy because he had a
Speaker 1: car seat in the back of the car. Stupid, stupid, stupid, Like,
Speaker 1: don't do it. I mean, what happened. He just drove
Speaker 1: me where I had to go. It was very nice,
Speaker 1: but like I'm just saying, like it's stupid. It's stupid
Speaker 1: to just assume anything about people like this man, the
Speaker 1: butcher Baker in Alaska. His career as a serial killer
Speaker 1: was made on the fact that he had two kids
Speaker 1: and was like a baker and you know, seemed like
Speaker 1: a just dorky dude.
Speaker 3: And those are those are the ones you gotta watch.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then yeah, we say this a lot the
Speaker 2: in cells. You stop, like the patriarchy fucking sucks, and
Speaker 2: all these killers just can't get late enough. And it's
Speaker 2: like I didn't get late in high school. You know,
Speaker 2: I'm not strangling people in the woods.
Speaker 3: I don't understand.
Speaker 1: Yeah, people need to re examine their hatred of women
Speaker 1: and look inward for sure.
Speaker 2: Also, never trust a man if he says another man
Speaker 2: is or is not creepy, they have no idea.
Speaker 3: They have no radar for it. Yeah, they have no radar.
Speaker 2: They will look at a full, full on pirate who's
Speaker 2: just pillaged a town and be like, oh, Ted, he's
Speaker 2: pretty cool.
Speaker 3: Yeah he's nice. We watch games together. Yeah, we look
Speaker 3: the same team. Yeah. He could be.
Speaker 2: In a wet raincoat splattered with blood.
Speaker 1: And he'd be like that guy hunts. Yeah, he's a
Speaker 1: hunt He's just like just a real man's man. You know,
Speaker 1: I love that guy.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: We cannot trust men's assessment of other men. They just
Speaker 2: really don't know how many creeps they're friends with. Constantly,
Speaker 2: I'm shocked how many creeps I'm friends with.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I also learned that tomorrow. I mean I didn't
Speaker 1: learn this. I've known this, but we don't give enough
Speaker 1: attention to tomorrow. He's very hot. I don't like his
Speaker 1: character very much, but he's very hot as a man.
Speaker 1: Danny Pino very hot.
Speaker 2: And we learn some FoST assess the information from you. Kara, Yeah,
Speaker 2: professor friend. Yeah, that's all really really important information. And
Speaker 2: let me get into that right now with what would
Speaker 2: sister peg do? We have a couple of recommendations for
Speaker 2: you for what were Sister peg do? One is Heather Heatherberg,
Speaker 2: who we spoke to about sex work, has a book
Speaker 2: called Porn Work, Sex Labor, and Late Capitalism.
Speaker 1: Pick that up on Amazon. She's very very smart and
Speaker 1: very very knowledgeable about the whole world of sex work
Speaker 1: and you know, the government and how it's being dealt with.
Speaker 1: And then she recommended a website called Hacking Hustling dot
Speaker 1: org to us, and it is a collective of sex
Speaker 1: worker survivors and accomplices working at the intersection of tech
Speaker 1: and social justice to interrupt state surveillance and violence facilitated
Speaker 1: by technology. So that is her wreck and therefore are
Speaker 1: wreck to you. And we'll have those both obviously in
Speaker 1: our show notes.
Speaker 2: And next week's episode will be Fault season seven, episode nineteen,
Speaker 2: And as always, the episodes are on Hulu and Peacock.
Speaker 3: And as we.
Speaker 2: Noted last week, go to your local library they have DVDs. Baby,
Speaker 2: thank you so much. We'll see you on the internet
Speaker 2: and next week, and we appreciate all of you listening.
Speaker 3: Bye bye.
Speaker 2: That's Messed Up as an Exactly Right production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
Speaker 1: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
Speaker 1: at That's Messed Up Pod at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod
Speaker 2: and on Twitter at messed Up Pod, and follow us
Speaker 2: personally at Kara Klink.
Speaker 3: And at glitter Cheese.
Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
Speaker 1: more information.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to SBU super fan and our
Speaker 2: incredible producer, Hannah.
Speaker 1: Kyle Kraton, and to our sound engineer and personal hero
Speaker 1: Anali Snilson, and to Henry Kaperski for our theme song,
Speaker 1: to Carly Jean Andrews for our artwork. Thanks to our
Speaker 1: executive producers Georgia Hardstar, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody
Speaker 1: at Exactly Right Media.
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