WEBVTT - Coronavirus Impact on the U.S. Postal Service 0:00:00.440 --> 0:00:02.960 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm 0:00:03.040 --> 0:00:05.480 Jason Kelly. We're here every day bringing you the latest 0:00:05.519 --> 0:00:09.800 news from the world's of business and finance, plus technology, politics, economics, 0:00:09.880 --> 0:00:13.480 all harnessing the power of Bloomberg Business Week reporters and editors, 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:16.759 not to mention our journalists and analysts more than a 0:00:16.800 --> 0:00:19.520 hundred and twenty countries. You can download Bloomberg Business Week 0:00:19.560 --> 0:00:22.439 on iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot Com. You can also 0:00:22.480 --> 0:00:24.919 listen to our radio show weekdays at two pm Eastern 0:00:25.000 --> 0:00:29.000 only on Bloomberg Radio. Let's understand where we are medically 0:00:29.120 --> 0:00:33.080 and how that may inform the decision to reopen, and 0:00:33.120 --> 0:00:35.839 how we ultimately do that. Dr Andy Pekosh is back 0:00:35.880 --> 0:00:39.360 with us. He is a professor of molecular microbiology and 0:00:39.560 --> 0:00:43.639 immunology at Johns Hopkins University Bloomberg School of Public Health. 0:00:43.640 --> 0:00:46.280 As you might tell from the name, Bloomberg School of 0:00:46.280 --> 0:00:48.519 Public Health is supported by Mike Bloomberg, the founder of 0:00:48.560 --> 0:00:52.519 Bloomberg LP and Bloomberg Philanthropies. Dr Pekosh, great to have 0:00:52.560 --> 0:00:55.720 you back with us very much. So you guys have 0:00:55.760 --> 0:00:58.440 been doing some remarkable work and really have become the 0:00:59.240 --> 0:01:02.640 gold standard it comes to tracking the virus. The data 0:01:02.720 --> 0:01:05.680 that so many people are relying on help us understand 0:01:05.760 --> 0:01:09.480 where we are, especially in the context of these peaks 0:01:09.600 --> 0:01:13.240 or plateaus that you're hearing the governors talk about, and 0:01:13.280 --> 0:01:17.280 how that may inform both regional and national Uh sort 0:01:17.319 --> 0:01:19.959 of getting back to business, Yeah, well, you know, everything's 0:01:19.959 --> 0:01:23.319 gonna be focused on regions right now. Different regions of 0:01:23.319 --> 0:01:26.399 the countries are in different places in their curves. Um. 0:01:26.520 --> 0:01:28.520 You can hear things from New York about their being 0:01:28.560 --> 0:01:32.280 plateaus going on there. Places like Texas are still in 0:01:32.319 --> 0:01:35.840 their increased stages. So, UM, this is going to be 0:01:35.880 --> 0:01:41.959 really focused on individual regions, county cities, UM, portions of states, UM, 0:01:42.000 --> 0:01:45.720 monitoring how the epidemic is progressing in those particular regions. 0:01:47.560 --> 0:01:53.080 So yes, okay, So how do you anticipate, um dr 0:01:53.120 --> 0:01:57.520 package that that will roll out in real time, especially 0:01:57.600 --> 0:01:59.880 when you know Jason and I keep talking about this 0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:03.480 theme of you know, fear versus greed. There is you 0:02:03.520 --> 0:02:06.360 can feel it, the pressure to get the economy back 0:02:06.440 --> 0:02:09.960 open because we're starting to see some optimism in those numbers, 0:02:10.040 --> 0:02:13.799 and yet those numbers are only getting better because we're 0:02:13.800 --> 0:02:17.600 all staying at home Yeah, So what's going to have 0:02:17.680 --> 0:02:21.520 to come in parallel with UM with the cases going down, 0:02:22.000 --> 0:02:24.240 is going to be a continued increase in our testing, 0:02:24.639 --> 0:02:26.560 and that testing is going to come into forms. It 0:02:26.600 --> 0:02:29.519 will come in continue testing for people who were infected, 0:02:29.560 --> 0:02:32.880 so looking for the virus UH in these people. And 0:02:32.919 --> 0:02:35.480 then the second arm of that testing will be testing 0:02:35.520 --> 0:02:39.280 for antibodies, which will tell us if people actually were 0:02:39.280 --> 0:02:43.360 infected and are still maintaining some level of immunity to 0:02:43.400 --> 0:02:46.079 the virus. So those two tests are really going to 0:02:46.160 --> 0:02:48.760 help inform us in terms of how quickly we can 0:02:48.760 --> 0:02:53.120 start rolling out the rolling back from the public health interventions. Okay, 0:02:53.120 --> 0:02:54.960 so you say that, and I feel like this has 0:02:55.000 --> 0:02:58.160 been the big question from day one, you know, getting 0:02:58.200 --> 0:03:00.680 more and more testing out there, we're still just testing 0:03:00.720 --> 0:03:05.639 small quantities of our society. So help me understand, then, 0:03:05.760 --> 0:03:08.120 when do we get to a level where we are 0:03:08.160 --> 0:03:11.680 testing enough people to safely and securely kind of start 0:03:11.720 --> 0:03:14.040 to go back to normal. Well, you know, as the 0:03:14.160 --> 0:03:17.120 number of cases starts to drop, that will free up 0:03:17.160 --> 0:03:19.640 more tests to go out there and be able to 0:03:19.680 --> 0:03:23.600 test UH, to loosen our parameters for testing. So so 0:03:23.760 --> 0:03:26.400 again as a testing as the number of cases goes down, 0:03:26.400 --> 0:03:28.359 we'll be able to expand testing and that will be 0:03:28.400 --> 0:03:30.720 important because that will help us keep a really good 0:03:30.720 --> 0:03:35.680 track of cases as they rebound. When we start easing 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:38.680 up on some of the public health interventions, we fully 0:03:38.720 --> 0:03:41.520 expect that as we let people come back into society 0:03:41.520 --> 0:03:44.560 and do their things, we'll see some upticking cases. What 0:03:44.680 --> 0:03:47.120 we have to be is prepared then to identify those 0:03:47.120 --> 0:03:52.160 cases and UM isolating quarantine those individuals instead of having 0:03:52.160 --> 0:03:55.360 the entire society undergo the same kind of public health 0:03:55.400 --> 0:03:57.960 and interventions. Are we going to need an app like 0:03:58.080 --> 0:04:01.920 China has that basically says okay, I was tested, I'm okay, 0:04:01.960 --> 0:04:04.880 Well you know we have the I'll say it's an 0:04:04.920 --> 0:04:07.720 advantage and that we can see other parts of the 0:04:07.760 --> 0:04:11.480 world who are now past their peak and are trying 0:04:11.480 --> 0:04:13.920 to deal with things. And there's lots of different approaches 0:04:13.960 --> 0:04:17.240 there in terms of understanding who's immune, who can go out, 0:04:17.640 --> 0:04:22.000 and who's potentially getting exposed to um to to virus 0:04:22.000 --> 0:04:25.120 in the in that in that plateau phase. So um 0:04:25.200 --> 0:04:27.160 we have a lot of things to try to get 0:04:27.480 --> 0:04:29.839 working here, but we have some examples to use from 0:04:29.960 --> 0:04:32.919 countries in Southeast Asia where they have been able to 0:04:32.920 --> 0:04:35.520 control the virus. I do want to bring back Dr 0:04:35.560 --> 0:04:39.919 Andy Pekosh, Professor of Molecular Microbiology and Immunology at Johns 0:04:39.920 --> 0:04:43.920 Hopkins University Blueberg School of Public Health. Of course, um 0:04:44.000 --> 0:04:48.040 the school is supported by Michael R. Bloomberg. So, Dr Pekosh, 0:04:48.400 --> 0:04:50.960 so what do you think is the most important thing 0:04:50.960 --> 0:04:54.000 that's going on right now in terms of getting the 0:04:54.120 --> 0:04:57.599 virus under control? Well, I think that the public health 0:04:57.640 --> 0:04:59.960 interventions that have been put in place all across the 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:03.839 country are working. You know, it takes because this virus 0:05:03.839 --> 0:05:06.960 are such a long incubation period, it takes two to 0:05:07.040 --> 0:05:10.080 three weeks before we start seeing the true effect of 0:05:10.080 --> 0:05:12.520 what we've been doing in terms of the numbers of 0:05:12.560 --> 0:05:15.480 cases and the numbers of fatalities. So things are working. 0:05:15.920 --> 0:05:17.640 Now is not the time to take our foot off 0:05:17.640 --> 0:05:19.960 the gas pedal. We need to keep these things going 0:05:20.320 --> 0:05:23.200 and drive this forward until we get past the peak 0:05:23.240 --> 0:05:26.279 in most parts of the country. And so Dr PECash, 0:05:26.560 --> 0:05:29.640 very basic question for you. You know, from the perspective 0:05:29.640 --> 0:05:32.320 of our listeners out there trying to live there everyday lives, 0:05:32.680 --> 0:05:34.680 what do you recommend in terms of masks, What do 0:05:34.720 --> 0:05:37.440 you recommend in terms of like people getting exercise, Can 0:05:37.480 --> 0:05:39.919 they go running with friends, can they take a walk? Like? 0:05:40.160 --> 0:05:42.080 What should people be thinking about? What have we learned 0:05:42.120 --> 0:05:45.240 about this virus that maybe is helping us refine what 0:05:45.480 --> 0:05:49.200 social distancing and what our interaction in public, as limited 0:05:49.240 --> 0:05:52.600 as it is, should be. Yeah, so getting outside, uh, 0:05:52.960 --> 0:05:58.880 walking around, running, exercising outside is fantastic. UM. Keep your 0:05:58.880 --> 0:06:01.880 social distance from people, trying not to run next to 0:06:01.880 --> 0:06:05.040 each other, trying not to um uh get too close 0:06:05.080 --> 0:06:07.760 to people as you're talking. But getting out and exercising 0:06:07.839 --> 0:06:09.440 is a is a wonderful thing to sort of break 0:06:09.440 --> 0:06:12.520 the monotony of being inside all the time. UM, if 0:06:12.560 --> 0:06:15.479 you're going out for your grocery runs or to do 0:06:15.600 --> 0:06:19.160 something else, you know essential. UM, it's great to have 0:06:19.200 --> 0:06:23.000 a mask on UM. The CDC is now updated it's 0:06:23.160 --> 0:06:26.560 guidance and wants everybody to be wearing masks when they 0:06:26.560 --> 0:06:30.240 go out, even just cloth ones. UM. Again, that happened 0:06:30.240 --> 0:06:33.719 because we're realizing how many UM people are having mild 0:06:33.760 --> 0:06:36.839 symptoms full abible to spread the virus. So this is 0:06:36.880 --> 0:06:39.320 really meant to try to capture that small percentage of 0:06:39.320 --> 0:06:41.440 the population that might be spreading the virus and not 0:06:41.560 --> 0:06:45.440 know it. UM. And um again didn't. Now is not 0:06:45.520 --> 0:06:47.680 the time to let up on these things. May be difficult, 0:06:47.720 --> 0:06:51.840 but we have to keep going. So Okay, I do 0:06:51.960 --> 0:06:54.560 wonder how our world has changed. I mean, it's obviously 0:06:54.640 --> 0:06:57.159 changed a lot of different ways, but I mean, is 0:06:57.200 --> 0:06:59.599 it all about getting a vaccine so that we can 0:06:59.680 --> 0:07:02.120 alter itly, really get this under control. Is that the 0:07:02.200 --> 0:07:05.080 final solution to this or is it a case of 0:07:05.400 --> 0:07:07.640 you know, it's going to mutate and we start all 0:07:07.640 --> 0:07:10.520 over again. Well, right now, it doesn't look like this 0:07:10.640 --> 0:07:14.200 virus is going to go away anytime soon. So UM, 0:07:14.200 --> 0:07:17.680 A real important key will be our tool will be 0:07:17.720 --> 0:07:20.480 to get a vaccine, because when we have a vaccine, 0:07:20.520 --> 0:07:22.760 that's when we can go out and really start immunizing 0:07:22.760 --> 0:07:25.680 the vulnerable parts of our population and really make a 0:07:25.720 --> 0:07:28.360 big dent in terms of the disease that's that's being 0:07:28.400 --> 0:07:32.440 caused in the decent diseases with severity in the population. Um, 0:07:32.600 --> 0:07:34.200 We'll have to see how things go over the next 0:07:34.240 --> 0:07:36.480 few months as more and more people become immune to 0:07:36.520 --> 0:07:39.400 the infection, UM, and how the virus will be spreading 0:07:39.400 --> 0:07:42.040 it that at those times, But does that also mean 0:07:42.080 --> 0:07:45.640 the big gatherings, whether it's sports events, UM going back 0:07:45.680 --> 0:07:48.480 to college like things like that, they will just they 0:07:48.520 --> 0:07:54.360 cannot happen for a while, really large gatherings. It's very 0:07:54.600 --> 0:07:56.560 there's very little chance that that can be put back 0:07:56.560 --> 0:08:00.280 in place anytime in the near foreseeable future, because what 0:08:00.320 --> 0:08:02.920 we're seeing from other parts of the country or parts 0:08:02.920 --> 0:08:05.640 of the world is that the virus never really goes 0:08:05.680 --> 0:08:09.880 away like we have with what we see with influenza UM. 0:08:09.920 --> 0:08:12.720 It seems to be hanging around UM at all parts 0:08:12.720 --> 0:08:15.000 of the year, and once once it goes through the population, 0:08:15.040 --> 0:08:18.000 there's still some some people left around who are spreading 0:08:18.000 --> 0:08:21.560 the virus. So UM. Gradual rollbacks of some of the 0:08:21.560 --> 0:08:25.840 public health interventions maybe occurring, but I don't foresee going 0:08:25.880 --> 0:08:30.240 back to seventy person football games in the near future. Yeah, 0:08:30.280 --> 0:08:33.200 it's really amazing, you know, we hear about that and 0:08:33.320 --> 0:08:36.079 hear about what the new normal may ultimately look like. 0:08:36.160 --> 0:08:38.280 Dr Andy Pekars, Thank you so much. Great to catch 0:08:38.360 --> 0:08:41.720 up with you again, always such a great voice to 0:08:41.760 --> 0:08:44.120 bring us the real scoop on what's going on out there, 0:08:44.240 --> 0:08:46.640 especially as we start to wrestle with some really big 0:08:46.720 --> 0:08:49.439 questions related to what it looks like on the other 0:08:49.480 --> 0:08:52.800 side of this. He is Professor of molecular Microbiology and 0:08:52.840 --> 0:08:56.680 Immunology at the Johns Hopkins University Bloomberg School of Public Health. 0:08:57.080 --> 0:08:59.400 As you can tell, it is supported by Mike Bloomberg, 0:08:59.440 --> 0:09:03.600 founder of bloom GELP and Bloomberg Philanthropies. Great resource they 0:09:03.600 --> 0:09:07.280 have all been and uh Dr Pekosh included. You're listening 0:09:07.320 --> 0:09:11.120 to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Jason Kelly 0:09:11.320 --> 0:09:13.720 on Bloomberg Radio. I have to say I was just 0:09:13.760 --> 0:09:17.120 following Twitter and my brother just tweeted everyone should buy stamps, 0:09:17.200 --> 0:09:20.280 and it was in response to somebody saying, listen, these 0:09:20.320 --> 0:09:22.680 postal workers are out there on the front line, you know, 0:09:23.000 --> 0:09:26.760 delivering our packages, you know, delivering our mail. Um. But Jason, 0:09:26.880 --> 0:09:30.240 it's a tricky time for them. It absolutely is a 0:09:30.320 --> 0:09:34.880 fantastic story coming up in this edition of Bloomberg Sweet Magazine, 0:09:34.880 --> 0:09:36.160 but you can read it now online and on the 0:09:36.200 --> 0:09:39.880 Bloomberg terminal. Devin Leonard wrote it, Projects and Investigations reporter 0:09:39.960 --> 0:09:41.800 for Bloomberg Business Week. He joins us on the phone 0:09:41.840 --> 0:09:44.480 from New Jersey as just Joel Weber, the editor of 0:09:44.559 --> 0:09:46.960 the magazine. He joins us on the phone from Brooklyn, 0:09:46.960 --> 0:09:50.000 and Joel, I want to start with you, Uh, Devin 0:09:50.440 --> 0:09:53.319 is our go to guyde figuring things out in terms 0:09:53.360 --> 0:09:55.800 of the government. He certainly has been over the last 0:09:55.840 --> 0:09:58.480 couple of years. We've relied heavily on him. What teed 0:09:58.559 --> 0:10:01.440 up this story for you? Well, I mean, Devin has 0:10:01.440 --> 0:10:04.320 actually written a book about the Pystal service. So that 0:10:04.440 --> 0:10:06.920 was like the one where in the middle of all this, 0:10:07.000 --> 0:10:09.160 that was like getting mail and I was just so 0:10:09.400 --> 0:10:12.160 looking forward to getting my mail every day, um, and 0:10:12.200 --> 0:10:14.720 I was like, what's going on with the postal service 0:10:14.800 --> 0:10:17.360 right now? So it's like sometimes it feels like I 0:10:17.360 --> 0:10:19.040 had this like a bat phone and I get that 0:10:19.080 --> 0:10:21.600 call certain people and ask for help. And so Devon 0:10:21.760 --> 0:10:24.600 was obviously top of mind a couple of weeks ago 0:10:24.600 --> 0:10:26.720 when we pulled this up. And you know, I think 0:10:26.760 --> 0:10:30.600 it's just a really compelling story because there are certain, um, 0:10:30.720 --> 0:10:33.360 humans that are really on the front lines right now, 0:10:33.920 --> 0:10:38.800 and the postal services really that and it's uh, you know, 0:10:38.880 --> 0:10:45.400 absolutely essential form of communication still and um, they're also 0:10:45.520 --> 0:10:48.560 not getting the support that you might expect. Devin, How 0:10:48.600 --> 0:10:50.280 how does that What did you learn about that on 0:10:50.360 --> 0:10:54.079 that front? Well, I mean it looks it's the it's 0:10:54.120 --> 0:10:58.240 probably the nation's oldest essential service and you know that 0:10:58.320 --> 0:11:01.599 you know, you get you get your mail through. I 0:11:01.640 --> 0:11:03.400 guess as you were saying, you know, you know, neither rain, 0:11:03.480 --> 0:11:06.840 nor stone, nor nor coronavirus. And you know, even when 0:11:07.240 --> 0:11:10.559 a disaster happens, when when you know, mail delivery stops, 0:11:10.600 --> 0:11:14.079 like nine eleven or Katrina or something like that, once 0:11:14.120 --> 0:11:16.480 you see those letter carriers, you know, going around the street, 0:11:16.480 --> 0:11:17.800 that's and you have a sense of you know, oh 0:11:17.800 --> 0:11:20.040 my god, you know, you know, we're back to normal. 0:11:20.200 --> 0:11:23.040 And you know, this is a really tough situation because 0:11:23.720 --> 0:11:29.240 like you know, doctors, nurses, cops, firefighters, you know these 0:11:29.800 --> 0:11:31.439 you know, the people work for the postal service. There 0:11:31.520 --> 0:11:33.560 they're sent you know, they're providing the central service. But 0:11:33.720 --> 0:11:37.200 they didn't have you know, the mask, the gloves, you know, 0:11:37.280 --> 0:11:41.200 you know, the the hand sanitizer that they needed. But 0:11:41.200 --> 0:11:42.920 they had to go out in the midst of in 0:11:42.960 --> 0:11:45.560 the midst of you know, this crisis, and you know 0:11:45.880 --> 0:11:47.400 a lot of people are getting sick, people were going 0:11:47.480 --> 0:11:49.840 weren't going going to work. But you know, as as 0:11:50.080 --> 0:11:52.480 you say, we're still getting we're still getting our mail. 0:11:52.520 --> 0:11:54.760 It's just kind of amazing. I have to say, just 0:11:54.840 --> 0:11:57.120 like Joel I mean there is something in my home too. 0:11:57.120 --> 0:11:59.160 It's like, oh the mail came, like or or package, 0:11:59.200 --> 0:12:01.440 you know, because it's just kind of it's the world 0:12:01.440 --> 0:12:04.280 we're living in right now. The thing is devon. The U. S. 0:12:04.280 --> 0:12:08.360 Postal Service has been struggling for some time, and you know, 0:12:08.440 --> 0:12:11.600 as you rightfully write about, it's you know here we 0:12:11.640 --> 0:12:15.000 need them more than ever, and yet you know, the 0:12:15.000 --> 0:12:17.680 future continues to be so uncertain for the U. S. 0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:21.200 Postal Service. Well, Cary, you're I mean, you're right. You know, 0:12:21.320 --> 0:12:23.240 they were in trouble before this. They've been in trouble 0:12:23.320 --> 0:12:26.600 for a while pretty much, you know, almost two decades now. 0:12:26.640 --> 0:12:31.160 But right now they're just getting hit really hard like 0:12:31.920 --> 0:12:34.319 so many other governments. I'm gonna be businesses in the 0:12:34.360 --> 0:12:37.200 United States by just a total you know, drop off 0:12:37.200 --> 0:12:41.600 in business. I guess we found out just on on Thursday. 0:12:41.640 --> 0:12:45.280 Megan Brennan, the Postmaster General, told Congress that they expect 0:12:45.320 --> 0:12:47.160 mail volume to drop, you know, in a year to 0:12:47.280 --> 0:12:50.960 year year of a year basis, you know, you know, 0:12:50.960 --> 0:12:55.240 by the summertime. So so you know, they were already 0:12:55.280 --> 0:12:59.720 in a tenuous financial situation. They've told Congress that they 0:12:59.800 --> 0:13:01.560 might run out of money you know, as early as June. 0:13:01.800 --> 0:13:04.720 So you know, you know, what what what what is 0:13:04.720 --> 0:13:08.640 the question? And and uh um, Congress did just just 0:13:08.760 --> 0:13:11.080 allow them to you know, would the approval of President 0:13:11.080 --> 0:13:14.120 Trump allow them to borrow ten billion more dollars? But 0:13:14.320 --> 0:13:17.160 I don't I don't think that's enough. Also, just barring 0:13:17.200 --> 0:13:19.400 more money doesn't you know, it doesn't solve their problem. 0:13:19.480 --> 0:13:21.800 You know, you know, Congress has to do something to 0:13:21.840 --> 0:13:23.920 really change their business models to get them out of this. 0:13:24.760 --> 0:13:27.480 And Devin, what role does the private sector play in 0:13:27.559 --> 0:13:30.880 all this? Because you know, we think about Amazon, we 0:13:30.920 --> 0:13:34.079 think about all that we're relying on in terms of 0:13:34.440 --> 0:13:37.679 delivery here. But take us into to that side of it, 0:13:37.760 --> 0:13:42.800 sort of the private versus public Well, you know the 0:13:42.880 --> 0:13:46.240 ups FedEx, you know, and and now Amazon. Now Amazon, 0:13:46.800 --> 0:13:49.040 Amazon's more recent because I've been doing this for a while. 0:13:49.800 --> 0:13:53.079 They they deliver a lot of packages, but you know, 0:13:53.120 --> 0:13:56.600 in terms of overall mail volume, they don't deliver any 0:13:56.679 --> 0:13:59.319 anywhere near you know, you know, the volume that the 0:13:59.600 --> 0:14:02.720 United Its postal service does. And also the postal service 0:14:02.760 --> 0:14:05.720 has to hit every address from the country six times 0:14:05.720 --> 0:14:08.840 a day, sorry, yeah, six days a week. And also 0:14:08.920 --> 0:14:12.000 you know, sometimes on Sunday. Now, so if you were 0:14:12.040 --> 0:14:15.920 just to do away with the postal service, those those 0:14:15.920 --> 0:14:17.920 private sector companies you know, you know, would serve the 0:14:18.000 --> 0:14:19.640 urban areas and in areas with this a lot of 0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:22.320 volume where they can make money, but they wouldn't do 0:14:22.360 --> 0:14:28.360 everything the postal service does. And so so how does 0:14:28.400 --> 0:14:31.000 this get resolved? I mean because we also see and 0:14:31.320 --> 0:14:33.920 you alluded to this. You know, the President did step in, 0:14:34.000 --> 0:14:37.880 but at the same time he's been very skeptical about 0:14:38.040 --> 0:14:40.240 how all of this works and how the U. S. 0:14:40.280 --> 0:14:43.720 Postal Service uh fits in. What's the next step in 0:14:43.720 --> 0:14:46.720 all this? Well, look, I mean what really needs to 0:14:46.760 --> 0:14:48.440 happen is something you know, this should have happened a 0:14:48.440 --> 0:14:51.800 while ago. You know, Congress needs to you know, you know, 0:14:52.040 --> 0:14:57.080 basically revamp the postal services business models. They have more 0:14:57.080 --> 0:15:01.320 control over over costs, so they can it can raise revenues, 0:15:01.400 --> 0:15:03.200 you know, they have they have no real control over 0:15:03.320 --> 0:15:06.840 over over their pricing. But that's not going to happen 0:15:06.960 --> 0:15:09.000 right now, you know, with you know, you know what, 0:15:09.080 --> 0:15:11.760 it's a crisis, you know, an economic crisis along with 0:15:11.800 --> 0:15:14.400 a health crisis. So I think in the end they're 0:15:14.400 --> 0:15:16.800 going to get bailed out, which is what Trump I 0:15:16.840 --> 0:15:18.640 didn't want to have happened. You know a lot of 0:15:18.680 --> 0:15:20.920 Republicans to but I don't think they really have much choice. 0:15:20.960 --> 0:15:25.600 And also when we're talking about voting by mail in November, 0:15:25.760 --> 0:15:30.360 I mean, they need a lifeline. Even though even though 0:15:30.400 --> 0:15:32.280 they're the ones the postal service itself, we're saying we 0:15:32.320 --> 0:15:34.200 didn't we need a new business level. They're not just 0:15:34.240 --> 0:15:36.320 asking for money. What does the world feel like we 0:15:36.360 --> 0:15:40.760 still need it? I mean in terms of the way 0:15:40.800 --> 0:15:44.200 we communicate. I mean, what's the thinking from you know, 0:15:44.360 --> 0:15:47.640 some of the experts that you talked to, Devin Well, 0:15:48.080 --> 0:15:50.880 I mean you you make a really good point, which 0:15:50.880 --> 0:15:53.000 is which is that you know, when's the last time 0:15:53.360 --> 0:15:56.640 you know, you wrote a letter? You know, the the 0:15:56.680 --> 0:16:00.160 postal service was more important to you know Americans, you know, 0:16:00.200 --> 0:16:03.480 a century ago, you know, two centuries ago, when there was, 0:16:03.680 --> 0:16:06.080 when there was it was the main way that people communicated. 0:16:06.560 --> 0:16:09.240 But but even now, you know, we we needed for 0:16:09.240 --> 0:16:10.880 for a lot of basic things. We you know, we 0:16:10.920 --> 0:16:13.960 need packages. There is still some some you know, some 0:16:14.040 --> 0:16:16.080 hard copy mail mail that we need. You just can't 0:16:16.360 --> 0:16:18.120 get rid of it for the reasons I was saying, 0:16:18.120 --> 0:16:20.120 But we're also we get medicine and you know, and 0:16:20.120 --> 0:16:22.240 things like that, and there's all these people there I 0:16:22.240 --> 0:16:24.040 shouldn't So there's always people. There's a fair amount of 0:16:24.080 --> 0:16:26.480 people in the country. Don't we have internet yet, so 0:16:26.520 --> 0:16:30.360 you know, rural areas so and there is an argument 0:16:30.600 --> 0:16:32.920 in some circles that it should be privatized. That's happened 0:16:32.920 --> 0:16:36.640 in Germany, it's happened in Great Britain, it's happened in Sweden, 0:16:37.240 --> 0:16:40.960 and it works there. But we're just so far from 0:16:41.080 --> 0:16:43.200 We're so far away, you know, from from even sort 0:16:43.200 --> 0:16:45.640 of contemplating that here, that that sort of proposed it 0:16:45.640 --> 0:16:48.280 and say that solution and we needed it tomorrow. This 0:16:48.400 --> 0:16:51.240 is not going to happen. It's just, you know, it's 0:16:51.240 --> 0:16:53.840 amazing tool, like something we just take for granted, right 0:16:54.040 --> 0:16:56.400 and are just assumed. But it's it's the times have 0:16:56.520 --> 0:16:59.880 changed a lot over the last decade, for sure, you know. 0:17:00.160 --> 0:17:01.520 You know. The other thing that I just wanted to 0:17:01.560 --> 0:17:04.439 say that Devon and this you know, warrants everyone reading 0:17:04.480 --> 0:17:06.800 it really is. You know, there's also like this labor 0:17:06.840 --> 0:17:08.600 element on top of it. And I think one of 0:17:08.640 --> 0:17:10.240 the other things that Devon did a great job of 0:17:10.280 --> 0:17:12.480 bringing to light here is like what it's like to 0:17:12.480 --> 0:17:16.359 actually be organizing on behalf of the postal service amid 0:17:16.400 --> 0:17:18.760 all of this um and so just on that note, 0:17:18.760 --> 0:17:22.240 that's like another fascinating element of the story that is 0:17:22.280 --> 0:17:25.159 just you know, some great nuance from Devon. Well, definitely 0:17:25.200 --> 0:17:28.080 check out the story everyone, there's so much details. Also 0:17:28.200 --> 0:17:31.439 check out his book as well on the US Postal Service. 0:17:31.440 --> 0:17:34.040 Our thanks to Devon Leonard, Projects and Investigations reporter at 0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:36.359 Bloomberg Business Week joining us on the phone along with 0:17:36.400 --> 0:17:40.400 Jill Webber Weber, editor of Bloomberg Business Week. You're listening 0:17:40.440 --> 0:17:44.320 to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Jason Kelly 0:17:44.480 --> 0:17:47.399 on Bloomberg Radio. All right, Andy Brown is with us. 0:17:47.400 --> 0:17:49.280 He's a little further north than we are, up in 0:17:49.280 --> 0:17:52.120 New Hampshire. He is, of course, editorial director of Bloomberg 0:17:52.280 --> 0:17:56.560 New Economy. He joins this on the phone. Uh So, Andy, 0:17:56.600 --> 0:17:59.439 take a look around at the world and tell us 0:17:59.480 --> 0:18:04.160 what you see, because we are seeing different leaders. We've 0:18:04.200 --> 0:18:06.680 heard from a lot of them today. Uh step into 0:18:06.680 --> 0:18:09.920 the breach here, governors, especially some mayors here and there, 0:18:10.400 --> 0:18:12.560 but take a global view of this. What are we 0:18:12.640 --> 0:18:16.800 learning about leadership? Yeah, so, you know the story that 0:18:16.880 --> 0:18:21.840 we've all been listening to in recent years about leadership 0:18:22.040 --> 0:18:25.240 and power in the twenty one century has been very 0:18:25.280 --> 0:18:30.840 much a binary one East versus West, China, USUS the 0:18:31.000 --> 0:18:36.959 US UH, the incumbent power versus the challenge, and the 0:18:37.000 --> 0:18:40.439 big unknown is will they go to war as they 0:18:40.480 --> 0:18:45.119 struggle over global supremacy? And yeah, I mean the story 0:18:45.200 --> 0:18:49.600 has never been particularly satisfactory because it's never taken into 0:18:49.640 --> 0:18:54.960 account the wishes of smaller yet still pretty powerful regional 0:18:55.440 --> 0:18:59.639 countries and economies like India and Japan and Australia and 0:18:59.680 --> 0:19:04.639 the Middle Stay Iran. But you know, this coronavirus seems 0:19:04.680 --> 0:19:10.120 to have completely blown this narrative out of the water. Um. 0:19:10.160 --> 0:19:14.719 You know, it is now clearer than ever that neither 0:19:14.840 --> 0:19:18.880 the United States nor China have the aptitude right now 0:19:19.080 --> 0:19:22.600 for global leadership, nor frankly, do they seem to have 0:19:22.680 --> 0:19:26.280 much appetite for it. Andy take a step back, though, 0:19:26.320 --> 0:19:29.120 because last week you guys kicked off Bloomberg New Economy 0:19:29.320 --> 0:19:33.479 Conversation series, which was an online gathering folks for more 0:19:33.520 --> 0:19:38.640 than sixty countries. You had some really high profile people talking. Obviously, 0:19:38.760 --> 0:19:42.159 leadership came up in this. UM, I am curious you 0:19:42.160 --> 0:19:44.800 know who who you guys talked to, and and some 0:19:44.880 --> 0:19:49.440 other main topics that kind of came away from that discussion. Yeah, 0:19:49.480 --> 0:19:51.960 this this well, I mean this really I would say this, 0:19:51.960 --> 0:19:55.320 this was the main conclusion to emerge. And we had 0:19:55.400 --> 0:19:57.920 Joe and I who was the architect of this concept 0:19:58.000 --> 0:20:02.480 of soft power. We had at um Michelle Flournoy, who 0:20:02.520 --> 0:20:07.040 was a former Deputy under Secretary of Defense and may 0:20:07.080 --> 0:20:10.880 well have been a Defense secretary ahead Hillary Clinton won 0:20:10.920 --> 0:20:14.720 the last election. And Jason Firman, who was, um, you know, 0:20:14.920 --> 0:20:20.560 President Obama's one of President Obama's chief economic aids. But this, 0:20:20.760 --> 0:20:24.000 this issue of leadership came up again and again and 0:20:24.080 --> 0:20:28.840 how the US and China have performed in this global 0:20:29.280 --> 0:20:33.600 once in a century crisis. And frankly, both China and 0:20:33.680 --> 0:20:36.119 the US came in for a battering, you know, I 0:20:36.119 --> 0:20:39.040 mean so on the Chinese side, Yeah, sure, the economists, 0:20:39.160 --> 0:20:43.960 the economy is is substantially up and running, and China 0:20:44.040 --> 0:20:47.080 is now in a position to provide aid to some 0:20:47.200 --> 0:20:49.280 parts of the world, even though they're scoring all kinds 0:20:49.280 --> 0:20:52.040 of propaganda points out of it. But you know, the 0:20:52.080 --> 0:20:56.800 world will never forget that. The Corona outbreak began in Wuhan, 0:20:57.480 --> 0:21:02.199 and you know, Wuhan was saturated with this virus, and 0:21:02.280 --> 0:21:04.399 this virus was being carried to the rest of China 0:21:04.560 --> 0:21:06.880 and the and and the and the whole world, while 0:21:06.880 --> 0:21:10.439 local officials there were engaged in a cover up, you know. 0:21:10.520 --> 0:21:13.320 And and by the same token, you know, the point 0:21:13.400 --> 0:21:16.560 was made that neither will the world forget the images 0:21:16.680 --> 0:21:19.960 that we're seeing right now in real time coming out 0:21:19.960 --> 0:21:24.359 of the United States. You know, the demonstrating the frailties 0:21:24.400 --> 0:21:27.840 and the fragilities of multiple systems in the US, I 0:21:27.880 --> 0:21:31.040