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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds, and Joe Biden says it's time fascism

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Speaker 1: is called fascism and Americans know exactly what they're voting for.

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Speaker 1: He's right. We have such a great show for you today.

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Speaker 1: Author Ben Mesick stops by to talk about his new book,

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Speaker 1: Breaking Twitter, Elon Musk and the most controversial corporate takeover

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Speaker 1: in history. Oh, by the way, it's gotten worse. Then

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Speaker 1: we'll talk to the editor of the Nevada Independent, John Ralston.

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Speaker 1: But first we have the host of the Time of Monsters,

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Speaker 1: the Nation's git here. Welcome back, too, Fast Politics. Jed here.

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Speaker 2: Good to be back on the program.

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Speaker 1: You are my favorite. I am so excited that we

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Speaker 1: have you. It is, you know, the run ups of Thanksgiving.

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Speaker 1: I wanted you back here for any number of reasons

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Speaker 1: you're might go to in all things Canada. Just kidding.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, that's like the meanest thing. No, Canada is

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Speaker 1: great and we love it and it matters a lot

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Speaker 1: in the world, but just not right now. But I

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Speaker 1: want to talk to you about where we are right

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Speaker 1: now in this like I feel like we're at the

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Speaker 1: end of primary season, except there were no primaries.

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Speaker 2: Discuss Yeah, on both sides, there were no primaries. I

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Speaker 2: mean on the Republican side, you kind of have this

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Speaker 2: like farcical situation where Trump is just so far ahead,

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Speaker 2: you know, he doesn't even need to debate, and that

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Speaker 2: turned out to be a smart strategy on his part.

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Speaker 2: It's a snow white in the Seven Dwarves. Snow White

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Speaker 2: is the star. That's Trump, and the little seven Dwarves

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Speaker 2: bottom ercs themselves and they all lost, and they all lost,

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Speaker 2: they all lost. I mean, there's a big push now

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Speaker 2: to say, well, Nikki Haley is on the rise and

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Speaker 2: she's a credible opponent to Trump, and their best palling

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Speaker 2: is in New Hampshia, where she's like thirty points behind Trump,

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Speaker 2: right like she's a toy. And then New Upter is

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Speaker 2: like exceptional among Republicans because it's a more liberal state

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Speaker 2: and her and Chris Christia are doing well there. But

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Speaker 2: that's not the Republican electorate like anywhere else. Certainly in

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Speaker 2: Iowa she's not getting anywhere at But conversely, I mean,

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Speaker 2: the one reason she's on the rise is that you

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Speaker 2: know Ron DeSantis is going down. He's actually like fourth

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Speaker 2: in New Hampshire, which is like amazing. All the seven

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Speaker 2: dwarves are basically candidates put up forward by some billionaire

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Speaker 2: thinking you'd be lice to own a president, and then

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Speaker 2: maybe Trump won't get it, and they're all faltering. There's

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Speaker 2: really no contest on the Republican side except maybe the

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Speaker 2: contest for being Vice president viiic Ramaswami might be an

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Speaker 2: interesting kind of picked just because he has some of

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Speaker 2: that Trump energy and he had a brief bubble which

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Speaker 2: is already bursted. So yeah, I don't actually see anyone

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Speaker 2: on the Tim Scott got a girlfriend where a few

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Speaker 2: days just photographed with a live.

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Speaker 1: Human with a lady.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yeah, yeah, and this will be the only

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Speaker 2: achievement of these want to be Trump said, you know

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Speaker 2: Tim Scott's very brief flirtation with human sexuality. Now on

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Speaker 2: the Democratic side, I mean, the same thing has kind

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Speaker 2: of happened. I mean, like, on the one hand, there's

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Speaker 2: a considerable number of Democrats who actually are not that

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Speaker 2: enthusiastic about Biden being the nominee. But the one thing

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Speaker 2: that keeps them going is that, like there's no credible alternative, right.

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Speaker 1: There's no way.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean, like William said, I know, friend

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Speaker 2: of the family.

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Speaker 1: Pause the tape here, we're gonna this a low blow

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Speaker 1: from get here. My first cousin who I haven't spoken

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Speaker 1: to in years and years and years, Peter daw was

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Speaker 1: briefly her campaign manager. Thank you, friend of the Family's cheat.

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Speaker 2: Sorry about that, Peter Daw. How many people as even

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Speaker 2: campaign manager as far so we both like campaign manager.

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Speaker 2: We believe where Cornell was.

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Speaker 1: Yes, everyone who can hurt Biden has it one time

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Speaker 1: employed my first cousin, Peter.

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Speaker 2: Da No, No, I'd have to say this is my

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Speaker 2: ga because we're dad had worked for Hillary Clinton, another

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Speaker 2: winning candidate. So I have to say that my working

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Speaker 2: theory is that he is actually the greatest sleepers hell

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Speaker 2: agent in the history of American politics.

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Speaker 1: I'm only laughing to keep from crying. But yes, I

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Speaker 1: think that's for sure true.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, no, no, Williams, it isn't happening. Cornell was like,

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Speaker 2: you know, jump from party to party, like you know

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Speaker 2: that a French party moved to the Greens. He's not

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Speaker 2: throwing the Greens. He's gonna run some sort of campaign

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Speaker 2: where like there's no chance he'll be on any ballad

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Speaker 2: and RFK Junior, like, you know, he's running a great

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Speaker 2: campaign if you want to be a Republican, he actually

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Speaker 2: could have. I think if he had actually run as

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Speaker 2: a Republican, he actually might have had the best shot

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Speaker 2: against Trump. Like I think he has some of that

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Speaker 2: like celebrity wacko energy, and there's enough sort of like

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Speaker 2: boomers that types have some memory of, like Kennedy, it

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Speaker 2: had been Democrats and there is some of that, like

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Speaker 2: you know, old counterculture crowd that has moved because of

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Speaker 2: qan On and because of COVID has moved to the top.

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Speaker 2: He could have had a credible run. But in any case,

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Speaker 2: who the hell knows what he's doing?

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Speaker 1: Is he so wary as a Democrat he'smoothed into being

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Speaker 1: an independent, But the reality is he will act as

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Speaker 1: a spoiler. Maybe he knows this, maybe he doesn't care.

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Speaker 1: As someone who had the experience of being on the

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Speaker 1: wrong side of him in Austin when he tried to

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Speaker 1: hackle my interview with doctor Peter hot has the TLDR

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Speaker 1: I got from seeing him and the way he acted

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Speaker 1: towards me and towards doctor hoo does is that he's

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Speaker 1: basically a member of the al right at this point.

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Speaker 2: That's right, that's right as such. I mean, I mean,

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Speaker 2: I mean, the one interesting thing about him is he

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Speaker 2: might actually be a spoiler, but maybe a spoiler for

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Speaker 2: the Republican right.

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Speaker 1: They're getting nervous now.

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Speaker 2: There are people in the Trump camp that are worried

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Speaker 2: that he's going to take more votes from them than Biden.

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Speaker 2: And I think that that seemed very plausible. But in

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Speaker 2: any case, on the democratics idea, no plausible opposition has emerged.

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Speaker 2: I mean, like what could if very think that something

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Speaker 2: could happen, just because usually if you have a Democrat

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Speaker 2: that's unpopular, like Linda Johnson sixty eight or Jimmy Carter

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Speaker 2: and Edie, you do have some opposition figure within the

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Speaker 2: party that emerges. But in both those cases that ended

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Speaker 2: up like electing Republicans. And I actually think that the Democrats,

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Speaker 2: the actual plausible Democrats who could have run against Joe Biden,

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Speaker 2: none of them have. That's pretty significant, I mean.

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Speaker 1: Kind of an endorsement of Joe Biden in a lot

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Speaker 1: of ways.

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Speaker 2: Well see a year from now whether the wisdom of that,

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Speaker 2: but it is the fact that the party, the elected officials,

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Speaker 2: and anyone who's a plausible Democratic candidate has not run

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Speaker 2: against Joe Biden, that there is no primary on that

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Speaker 2: end either.

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Speaker 3: Apologies to miss Williamson.

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Speaker 1: One of the things I want to talk to you about,

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Speaker 1: which I think is so relevant and important here I

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Speaker 1: have this theory I want to sort of talk to

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Speaker 1: you about because you and I I think of us

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Speaker 1: as Internet people. Right, we live there, you know, we

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Speaker 1: live in our homes with our spouses, but we also

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Speaker 1: really live on the Internet. One of the things with

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Speaker 1: these bad polls is that we see that the person

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Speaker 1: who kills it in these polls is the generic D. Right,

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Speaker 1: they are the person who kills it. And in twenty fifteen,

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Speaker 1: the person who got the nomination was the generic D

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Speaker 1: Joe Biden. Joe Biden's his favorability numbers are low, very low,

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Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton level low. Do you think that part of

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Speaker 1: what happened and part of what Biden World needs to

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Speaker 1: do is they need to fill the vacuum. So, for example,

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Speaker 1: Hunter Biden is on the cover of the New York

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Speaker 1: Post every day for two weeks. Right, Hunter's laptop, Hunters, this, Hunters, Hookers, Hunters,

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Speaker 1: this hunter's that, and there's no one in Biden world

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Speaker 1: going like, look, Avanka's husband, Jared manages two billion dollars

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Speaker 1: for Mohammed ben Salmon. How did he meet Mohammad bin Salmon.

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Speaker 1: Let us take a moment and pause. Oh, when he

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Speaker 1: brought peace to the Middle East. Here's what's not happening

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Speaker 1: peace in the Middle East. Here's what is happening. Jared

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Speaker 1: carried interest on two billion dollars.

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Speaker 2: Discuss It is absolutely the case that Biden as president,

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Speaker 2: you know, like, is not able to command the stage.

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Speaker 2: And that's like give were for a bunch of reasons.

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Speaker 2: I think partially it's also like a decision on their end. Likely,

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Speaker 2: you know, like I think that they did buy the

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Speaker 2: theory that you know, like Biden won because he was banal,

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Speaker 2: because he would allow people to have brunch and he

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Speaker 2: would restore calmness to politics and not be like, you know,

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Speaker 2: tweeting all the time. He would be the anti Trump, right.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if that's why he won, And I

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Speaker 2: certainly think that the Democrats will won since Biden haven't

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Speaker 2: won on the strategy of like keeping things calm and

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Speaker 2: like being invisible, Like I think Democrats have like as

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Speaker 2: they had a lot of success in the both the

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Speaker 2: mid terms and the slash elections, and it usually comes

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Speaker 2: from being sort of fear sleep partisan. But I mean,

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Speaker 2: I think said that the thing is it'll come down.

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Speaker 2: I think if it's like Trump versus Biden, there, you know,

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Speaker 2: might be an issue. And I have to remind people

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Speaker 2: like twenty twenty was close. It was not close in

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Speaker 2: the popular vote, but actually in the terms of the

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Speaker 2: electoral college victory, it was closer than twenty sixteen. Well,

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Speaker 2: like you know, like forty thousand votes in three states

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Speaker 2: would have given us like a second Trump presidency. Now,

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Speaker 2: but on the generic question, Democrats are better and so

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Speaker 2: there are ways in which this can become and I

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Speaker 2: think it is going to become not Biden versus Trump,

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Speaker 2: but Democrats versus Republicans. First of all, the Democrats actually,

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Speaker 2: I think have a great bench. People don't realize this,

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Speaker 2: but I mean, like there's just a lot of good

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Speaker 2: Democratic talent instead of the governors and also among this senators.

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Speaker 2: So like if you make it, if you bring out there,

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Speaker 2: you know, all the heavy hitters, which I think actually

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Speaker 2: also happened in twenty twenty, Like if you actually saw

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Speaker 2: who was campaigning, like you know, like Obama and Ernie,

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Speaker 2: and you know they were kept I think as much

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Speaker 2: as Videns.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So we imagine a scenario next year where there's

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Speaker 2: indications the White House Watson were in a front porch

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Speaker 2: campaign not have biding out there a lot, but you

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Speaker 2: could have, you know, if you have Obama, Bernie Elizabeth, Warren, Whitmore, Warnock, Newsome,

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Speaker 2: like put everyone, the whole team out there and make

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Speaker 2: it like the key issues, you know, domestically are abortion.

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Speaker 2: Like a vote for Trump is a vote for a

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Speaker 2: party that you know, like actually is still committed to

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Speaker 2: like a federal abortion ban, which is like hugely unpopular.

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Speaker 2: I think that gets you a lot of the way there.

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Speaker 2: And I have to say, you know, like we don't

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Speaker 2: want to talk about form folacy, but look, I think

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Speaker 2: a lot of ways the foreign policy, whatever else you

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Speaker 2: can say about it, is a bit of a distraction

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Speaker 2: because you know, the more time that takes up on

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Speaker 2: the front page of the headlines. I think one piece

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Speaker 2: of bad luck is like the foreign policy dominates, and

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Speaker 2: then like everything that's happened to Trump in terms of

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Speaker 2: all the court cases and all the information that's come

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Speaker 2: out about Trump in the last few weeks. It hasn't

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Speaker 2: been in the headline, it hasn't circulated. I mean it's

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Speaker 2: when the headlines like in the back of the newspaper.

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Speaker 2: It hasn't been something that's been really taken up. And

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Speaker 2: so I mean, I think a lot will depend on

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Speaker 2: if there's like some of these like foreign pality crises.

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Speaker 2: I diffused. I think Biden will be in a much

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Speaker 2: better place because it will then become you know, Democrats

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Speaker 2: versus Republicans, or even Democrats versus Trump. It is that said,

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Speaker 2: it'll be a Trump viized GOP. I think you can

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Speaker 2: win on that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's interesting. I mean the idea here though,

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Speaker 1: the importance here is that if you allow a vacuum,

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Speaker 1: a news vacuum, then it gets filled, and it gets

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Speaker 1: filled with people like Jack Pasopiak and the Breitbart crew.

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Speaker 1: This is the brave new, completely unregulated world of social media.

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Speaker 1: There is no one coming to tell the truth, right.

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Speaker 1: The truth is whatever people are seeing in a headline.

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Speaker 1: I mean, this is the really sad state of things.

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Speaker 1: And I think what's really scary to me, as a

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Speaker 1: person who really dwells there is that we're seeing there

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Speaker 1: is no fact check what Elon Musk has done very successfully.

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Speaker 1: It may have been intentional, it may not have been intentional,

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Speaker 1: but he has removed all of the fact checks. You know,

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Speaker 1: they do have community notes, but again you can get

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Speaker 1: noted for things that may or may not be true.

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Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, it's a very mixed thing. Well, I mean

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Speaker 2: in terms of well, whether Musk was deliberate, I mean,

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Speaker 2: I think he's just an idiot to shut off his

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Speaker 2: mouth but ended up in controlling Twitter. But you know,

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Speaker 2: once he controls twueter, he wants to make it his

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Speaker 2: own end. But there are other people. I mean, we're

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Speaker 2: seeing a huge sort of right wing push to build

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Speaker 2: on the brief fire model. Yeah, they're creating all these

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Speaker 2: like faked news sites. They're buying Univision, you know, like

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Speaker 2: one of the main outlets with Spanish speaking Americans get

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Speaker 2: their news, you know, like is now controlled by the right.

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Speaker 1: And you need those voters, Well.

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Speaker 2: We need those words. Yeah, Unfortunately. I mean the thing is,

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Speaker 2: if we're talking about the the big media outlets, like

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Speaker 2: you know, the Democrats are outgunned simply by the fact

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Speaker 2: that you know, they're more Republican billionaires they're more invested

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Speaker 2: in creating this media for a start care yeah case

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Speaker 2: something like if you remember aar America from like twenty

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Speaker 2: years ago, there's a casal due you know, but it's

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Speaker 2: it's nowhere near the same league. I do think that

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Speaker 2: there's a lot of energy, you know, on the left,

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Speaker 2: and we are creating their own media spaces. They're not

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Speaker 2: like these big corporations, and I think that if you

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Speaker 2: have a leader that's charismatic enough, they can override that.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I think the one thing with Trump is it's,

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Speaker 2: you know, like he got a lot of earned media media,

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Speaker 2: you know, like because he.

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Speaker 1: Just yeah, was a celebrity, free media, different media.

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Speaker 2: But you could say that listening about Obama, like Obama

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Speaker 2: became a genuine celebrity, and they very cleverly like they

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Speaker 2: went on things that were political. Obama would go on

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Speaker 2: sports podcasts, right listen to like tons of people, uh

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Speaker 2: not people who like you know, normally pay attention to

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Speaker 2: headlines or news. But you know, like people got the

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Speaker 2: impression like, you know, Obama is this guy. Now I

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Speaker 2: don't know if Biden this is you know, partially who

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Speaker 2: he is, but it's also partially who he's chosen to be.

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Speaker 2: He's chosen to try to be like the old style politician,

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Speaker 2: you know, who tries to do backroom deals and work Washington.

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Speaker 2: He can't do that, But I don't know if it's

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Speaker 2: just on him. Like, I actually think this is like

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Speaker 2: democracy depends on where they one person, And I do

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Speaker 2: think that the Democrats have a strategy where they're putting

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Speaker 2: their people like on these new media outlets and trying

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Speaker 2: to reach people, you know, that can even the field

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Speaker 2: a little bit.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that is a really good point. I

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Speaker 1: think about that a lot and just how important it

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Speaker 1: is to sort of adjust that way. So what you're

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Speaker 1: saying is a really good point about how really Democrats

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Speaker 1: need to fill this vacuum. They need to focus on

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Speaker 1: getting their guy out there. I do think that January one,

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Speaker 1: people are going to wake up and be like, holy shit.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the thing is Trump is tweeting about Vermin.

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Speaker 1: I mean, thank god Trump is not Ron DeSantis, thank god?

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Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I mean, well this is the thing. This

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Speaker 2: is like the whole media vacuum that we're talking about.

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Speaker 2: I mean, Trump it is like, you know, much more

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Speaker 2: openly fascist than he's.

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Speaker 1: Ever been than anyone, Right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he's sort of like, you know, hinting at you know,

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Speaker 2: he'll like execute the top brass of the Pentagon. You know,

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Speaker 2: it's really wild stuff. And I gotta say, my whole

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Speaker 2: sense is it's not circulating. It's not you know, certainly

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Speaker 2: the Republican media is a lot picking up on it.

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Speaker 2: But the more you know, neutral or democratic media, it's

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Speaker 2: not what people are talking about. All the polling would

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Speaker 2: indicate it's not resonating, and you have to figure out

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Speaker 2: a way to make that the top issue and make

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Speaker 2: it resonate. I feel like it's all going to tighten

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Speaker 2: up a lot when it is, you know, Biden versus Trump,

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Speaker 2: that's what it is. I think, you know, like a

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Speaker 2: front ports campaign is not going to work just and

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Speaker 2: I know there are reports like in political and elsewhere

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Speaker 2: like this is what the White House is thinking. You know,

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Speaker 2: It's like that's not the reality. That's certainly how Democrats

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Speaker 2: have won elections over the last three years. And I

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Speaker 2: think the only hope I can see is if you

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Speaker 2: bring out the whole team, Like if you just bring

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Speaker 2: out everyone who's like a heavy hitter, just put them

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Speaker 2: out there all the time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, jid, here we're going to be doing this a lot,

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Speaker 1: so please forgive me. Thanks for coming on. Can't wait

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Speaker 1: to have you back.

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Speaker 2: Okay, always a pleasure.

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Speaker 1: Ben Mazick is the author of Breaking Twitter, Elon Musk

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Speaker 1: and the Most Controversial Corporate Takeover and History. Welcome Ben

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Speaker 1: to Fast Politics.

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Speaker 3: Hey, thank you so much for having me.

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Speaker 1: So the book is called Breaking Twitter and Elon Musk

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Speaker 1: and the most Controversial Corporate Takeover in History, which it

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Speaker 1: really is. Talk to me about how you decided to

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Speaker 1: write this book.

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Speaker 3: I try and write stories that are about big moments

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Speaker 3: in either cultural history or technological history. Things that you know,

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Speaker 3: the world is changing, and these are those moments, those

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Speaker 3: origins of some big change. And obviously Elon taking over

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Speaker 3: Twitter became a very, very big story. I got interested

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Speaker 3: in it. On the one hand, I was a big

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Speaker 3: fan of Elon Musk in that I thought he's someone

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Speaker 3: who's trying to push us forward. Previous to him taking Twitter,

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Speaker 3: he was, you know, the genius behind Tesla and SpaceX.

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Speaker 3: He was whenever you talked about him, he was, you know,

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Speaker 3: in the same sentence as like Edison or one of

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Speaker 3: the great entrepreneurs of our time. And then he dove

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Speaker 3: into Twitter, and it just spiraled out of control. In

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Speaker 3: my opinion, and from a cinematic point of view, it

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Speaker 3: was just kind of a movie being written in front

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Speaker 3: of me, and I'm always looking for very cinematic stories.

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Speaker 3: And then a lot of people just started coming to

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Speaker 3: me who had either been just fired or were still

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Speaker 3: working with him, or people even on his team, who

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Speaker 3: were just saying, this is so crazy. Someone should write

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Speaker 3: about it. And I started to hear the stories, and

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Speaker 3: then someone from Hollywood reached out, so it kind of

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Speaker 3: all came together and I dove in and started writing it.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's funny because I was at Twitter before

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Speaker 1: it happened. You know, he like made the offer, and

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Speaker 1: then there were a couple of months where I was like,

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Speaker 1: will here or won't he right? And I was there

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Speaker 1: and I was talking to them and everyone. The consensus

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Speaker 1: was it was not going to happen, right, And it

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Speaker 1: seemed like it was not going to happen, and he

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Speaker 1: was going to have to pay this wildly enormous kill fee.

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Speaker 1: And then one day it did happen. So what happened there?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, he went in for a couple reasons,

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Speaker 3: and so in my view and from all the research

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Speaker 3: I've done. He really felt like he was going in

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Speaker 3: for the right reasons, where there was this woke mind

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Speaker 3: virus sweeping across Twitter and it was moderating conservative voices

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Speaker 3: and free speech was dying, and he believed that there

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Speaker 3: had to be this organ of free speech for us

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Speaker 3: to get to Mars. It's kind of a convoluted theory,

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Speaker 3: but the idea is that we have this window open

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Speaker 3: in which we can get to Mars and become interplanetary

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Speaker 3: and save us from some sort of civilization ending doom.

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Speaker 3: And to do that, he needed to save Twitter. So

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Speaker 3: that was his initial reasons for getting in, but he

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Speaker 3: wasn't taking it all that seriously. He made a crazy

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Speaker 3: offer which was way too much money, and very quickly

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Speaker 3: he started getting pushed back from Tesla insiders who saw

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Speaker 3: that he was going to have to sell shares and

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Speaker 3: divide his attention. And this was the first time this

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Speaker 3: kind of group of faithful people pushed back at him,

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Speaker 3: and that, combined with the idea that he realized he

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Speaker 3: was paying way too much for it, made him change

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Speaker 3: his mind and he decided to get out of it,

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Speaker 3: and he claimed it was all about bots. He didn't know,

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Speaker 3: there were so many bots of it. You know, there

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Speaker 3: were a lot of bots. But then they sued him.

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Speaker 3: They came to him and said, you have to take

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Speaker 3: us over, and it became this battle between their lawyers

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Speaker 3: and him and his lawyers, and he would have to

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Speaker 3: pay this crazy fee to get out, which he should

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Speaker 3: have done, probably.

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Speaker 1: Right, which still would have saved him forty billion dollars

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Speaker 1: or something.

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Speaker 3: Well worse than that. And the whole concept of my

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Speaker 3: book is that, you know, Elon must didn't break Twitter.

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Speaker 3: Twitter broke Elon Musk. It ruined his reputation, It ruined

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Speaker 3: him for half the country. You know, it was not

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Speaker 3: worth it at all. This this is a horrible move,

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Speaker 3: but at that point it became a thing of pride

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Speaker 3: and he decided to take it, and he took it angrily,

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Speaker 3: and that's why he sort of crashed through the gate reluctantly.

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Speaker 3: But once he was there, he just started burning it down.

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Speaker 1: How does he service this debt? I mean wildly overpaid,

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Speaker 1: probably about twice maybe three times what it was really worth.

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Speaker 1: I mean, doesn't he have to service like a billion

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Speaker 1: dollars a debt every month?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's crazy. They're trying to rewrite history and saying

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Speaker 3: that Twitter was already on its last legs. And the

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Speaker 3: reality was financially Twitter was doing fine. It was very

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Speaker 3: close to break even, if not break even. I mean,

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Speaker 3: it wasn't making tons of money, but you know, nothing is.

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Speaker 3: And then he came in and because of the debt structure,

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Speaker 3: it's suddenly losing money from the minute he walks in

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Speaker 3: the doors and then he chases all the advertisers away.

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Speaker 3: So not only did he overpay, but he cut their

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Speaker 3: revenue so enormously that they themselves now value it at

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Speaker 3: eighteen billion dollars, which is probably an inflated valuation, and

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Speaker 3: so it's more than half declined from where he started.

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Speaker 3: So yes, he has to keep sort of it alive.

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Speaker 3: All the banks are looking at a huge write off

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Speaker 3: on this, and that's why he's doing all these crazy

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Speaker 3: things to try and make it profitable. So even though

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Speaker 3: he came in with these intentions of noble reasons, it

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Speaker 3: becomes an effort just how do we monetize all of this?

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Speaker 3: And so you can see him lashing out in ways

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Speaker 3: trying to monetize, trying to monetize, which is just making

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Speaker 3: the situation worse and worse.

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Speaker 1: I have so much trouble imagining that he came in

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Speaker 1: for noble reasons. But what do you think of the

432
00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:12,960
Speaker 1: sort of theory of the case that he came in

433
00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:16,119
Speaker 1: because he was mad that he had a trans kid.

434
00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:18,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that's definitely part of it. It was

435
00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:21,440
Speaker 3: the Babylon be tweet where you know, the Babylon being

436
00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:24,960
Speaker 3: made a joke about the trans Health Department person, and

437
00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:27,840
Speaker 3: Elon has a child who is trans and has a

438
00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:30,200
Speaker 3: bad relationship with that child, and so I think there's

439
00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:32,320
Speaker 3: something to that for sure. I mean, I think that

440
00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:34,520
Speaker 3: was the thing that pushed him over the edge. I

441
00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:37,879
Speaker 3: think I'm more generous to Elon maybe that you are,

442
00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:41,600
Speaker 3: certainly that some people are. I really really did formally

443
00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:44,320
Speaker 3: drink the kool aid in that I really thought that

444
00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:48,080
Speaker 3: his general intentions are good because of his worldview. I

445
00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:51,160
Speaker 3: think he really thinks the world is one big simulation,

446
00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:53,960
Speaker 3: that he's the main player. He's there to save the world.

447
00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:56,239
Speaker 3: He's a hero of the story, and none of us

448
00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:58,120
Speaker 3: even exist, we're all non playing characters.

449
00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:00,840
Speaker 1: Will you say more on that, because you told me

450
00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:04,840
Speaker 1: about this the other night and I'm just totally traumatized

451
00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:05,240
Speaker 1: by it.

452
00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:08,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, so simulation theory, you know, is the basic idea

453
00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:12,639
Speaker 3: that mathematically it actually makes sense that the world is

454
00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:15,640
Speaker 3: not real because if you take into account that as

455
00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:19,320
Speaker 3: we develop as a technology and as a civilization, we

456
00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:22,679
Speaker 3: make video games that are more and more realistic. And

457
00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:24,760
Speaker 3: because of the way video games work, you don't just

458
00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:27,840
Speaker 3: make one playing field, but you make billions, and it

459
00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:31,560
Speaker 3: actually trends towards infinite. As technology gets better, you make

460
00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:34,240
Speaker 3: more and more and more of these fake worlds, and

461
00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:36,800
Speaker 3: they're more and more and more realistic. And so the

462
00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:39,840
Speaker 3: idea is, as civilization progresses, you actually reach a point

463
00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:43,320
Speaker 3: where the odds are what you're doing right now is

464
00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:47,320
Speaker 3: playing an incredibly sophisticated video game. Because there are billions

465
00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:50,320
Speaker 3: of these, the idea that you're in base reality becomes

466
00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:54,359
Speaker 3: infinitely smaller and smaller possibility. So Elon buys into this theory.

467
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:56,320
Speaker 3: So the theory is that everything around us is just

468
00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:59,320
Speaker 3: one big simulation. But not only that, he actually believes

469
00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:02,480
Speaker 3: that he's the player in this game, because when you

470
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:05,000
Speaker 3: play a video game, most of the people you see

471
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:07,400
Speaker 3: in it are fake and only one person is real.

472
00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:09,840
Speaker 3: But if you have an infinite number of video games

473
00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:12,480
Speaker 3: and an infinite number of players in it, the odds

474
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:16,760
Speaker 3: that you're real become infinitely small. That's the math behind it.

475
00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:18,880
Speaker 3: He believes he's the only real person.

476
00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:21,080
Speaker 1: So he is real, But none of us are real.

477
00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:23,440
Speaker 3: None of us are real. We're all just pixels, you know,

478
00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:25,840
Speaker 3: when we think we're real, just like an advanced you know,

479
00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:28,920
Speaker 3: AI like thing would think it was real, but we're

480
00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:31,199
Speaker 3: just sort of being rendered in the video game of

481
00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:33,919
Speaker 3: Elon Musk's life. I really think he buys into this.

482
00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:36,359
Speaker 3: And I will say that, having interviewed and been and

483
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:40,440
Speaker 3: talked to many incredibly wealthy, successful people, everyone has this

484
00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:42,600
Speaker 3: a little bit of a suspicion that the world is

485
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:45,640
Speaker 3: designed around them, because the more successfully are, you think

486
00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:47,919
Speaker 3: to yourself, well, how could have gotten here? This is

487
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:50,240
Speaker 3: so unlikely when you start to think of the world

488
00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:52,280
Speaker 3: as being designed around you. But I think Elon takes

489
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:53,119
Speaker 3: it to another level.

490
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:56,959
Speaker 1: This is incredibly stupid time to be alive. And I

491
00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:01,120
Speaker 1: would like to weigh in that that is to play stupid,

492
00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:06,879
Speaker 1: like shockingly impressively stupid thing to think. Obviously, Elon Musk

493
00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:10,560
Speaker 1: is smart. Is he as smart as we think he

494
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:11,560
Speaker 1: is discussed?

495
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:14,280
Speaker 3: I think he's brilliant in a certain way. I think

496
00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:17,560
Speaker 3: he's a guy who who walks into sort of Tesla

497
00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:21,159
Speaker 3: or SpaceX. He dreams incredibly big, but because he believes

498
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:23,520
Speaker 3: everything's faked that he can get there. So his optimism

499
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:25,520
Speaker 3: is part of it, and a little bit is delusion.

500
00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:29,560
Speaker 3: But he truly is smart and he makes good decisions

501
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:33,119
Speaker 3: often when there's engineering problems by going for it. You know,

502
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:34,880
Speaker 3: he's willing to blow things up to get to where

503
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:38,080
Speaker 3: he's going. It's less that he's a genius in that

504
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:41,360
Speaker 3: he's incredibly good at getting really smart people to do

505
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:44,440
Speaker 3: smart things. Him in a room full of engineers can

506
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:47,080
Speaker 3: come out with an incredible outcome. It's not that he's

507
00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:50,120
Speaker 3: necessarily making the thing, but he has this incredible ability

508
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:52,400
Speaker 3: to get a room full of engineers to do something

509
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:54,560
Speaker 3: they didn't think they could do. So I mean that's

510
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:58,000
Speaker 3: a form of genius. It's definitely something very impressive in

511
00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:00,440
Speaker 3: the tech space. You know, he could have fled out

512
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:03,520
Speaker 3: many many times along the way, but somehow he gets

513
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:06,919
Speaker 3: the people around him to work beyond where they normally

514
00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:09,960
Speaker 3: thought they could go. So it's a mix of sort

515
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:13,840
Speaker 3: of genius and just the ability to carve a path

516
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,359
Speaker 3: forward and the people around him follow him in that past.

517
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:19,600
Speaker 1: So he had been sort of flirting with the far right.

518
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 1: Yesterday he sort of got married to them, went full

519
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:27,720
Speaker 1: anti Semi has a family history of anti Semitism, which

520
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:30,399
Speaker 1: again doesn't mean you'll be an anti semi, but it

521
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:32,639
Speaker 1: certainly doesn't help. What do you think about that.

522
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:35,720
Speaker 3: I talk about this a fair amount, and I never

523
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:40,320
Speaker 3: really see him personally as anti Semitic or racist, but

524
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:46,000
Speaker 3: I think he's very tolerant of anti semitic and racist memes,

525
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:50,000
Speaker 3: tweets and people. I think for him, he loves drama.

526
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:53,800
Speaker 3: I mean that's obvious. He loves controversy. He's turned Twitter

527
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:57,119
Speaker 3: into this outrage engine. I mean it's all about engagement

528
00:25:57,119 --> 00:25:59,720
Speaker 3: and outrage, not about truth, not about journalism, not about

529
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:01,399
Speaker 3: anything that he came in saying it was going to

530
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:05,399
Speaker 3: be about. So I do think he pushes these buttons purposefully.

531
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:09,040
Speaker 3: It's a performative form of anti semitism more than it

532
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 3: is you know, I hate Jews. I think he's one

533
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:13,320
Speaker 3: of those people who sees himself as being friends with

534
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:16,280
Speaker 3: many Jews, working well with many Jews, and is not

535
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:21,239
Speaker 3: personally anti Semitic. But when someone tweets something that is

536
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:24,880
Speaker 3: too many people obviously anti Semitic. He's willing to push

537
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:28,000
Speaker 3: that tweet forwards because either he thinks it's funny or

538
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:29,879
Speaker 3: he thinks it has a piece of truth to it.

539
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:32,959
Speaker 3: It doesn't affect him personally, so he doesn't see it

540
00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:36,160
Speaker 3: that way. It's a hard for me anyways to look

541
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:38,040
Speaker 3: at him and say, okay, Elon Musk is anti Semitic,

542
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 3: because I don't really think he is. But I do

543
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:42,560
Speaker 3: look at him and say, okay, he's completely tolerant of

544
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:45,680
Speaker 3: a lot of anti Semitic voices. And Twitter's become full

545
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:48,240
Speaker 3: and full. It's full on Nazism going on there. I

546
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:52,199
Speaker 3: mean I have seen more acause thedial at full on.

547
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:54,879
Speaker 3: Hitler is great on Twitter than I've ever seen on

548
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:57,639
Speaker 3: any website in my life. I mean, going all the

549
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 3: way back to Reddit, four chan and the world stays there.

550
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:04,280
Speaker 3: It's kind of amazing that he's taken something that was

551
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 3: so much a part of our lives in terms of news.

552
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:09,639
Speaker 3: And he used to go on Twitter and get the

553
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,320
Speaker 3: day's news from really smart people. And you know, if

554
00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:14,040
Speaker 3: there was a hurricane going on, you could be on

555
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:16,440
Speaker 3: a rooftop tweeting help save me, and someone would come

556
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:18,359
Speaker 3: save you. And now you look at Twitter and it's

557
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:21,640
Speaker 3: just full on garbage dump and this wasn't the goal.

558
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:24,199
Speaker 3: I really really don't believe that Elon came in with

559
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:26,720
Speaker 3: these intentions. I think it got out of his control.

560
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:30,119
Speaker 1: So play this out for me, what happens next.

561
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:33,719
Speaker 3: I really do believe this has affected Elon personally. I mean,

562
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:36,240
Speaker 3: he reached such a low point that he locked himself

563
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 3: in his office for a while and basically the people

564
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:41,840
Speaker 3: at Twitter was so concerned for his welfare they were

565
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 3: going to call in a wellness check on him because

566
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:45,159
Speaker 3: they thought he was going to kill himself. This was

567
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,439
Speaker 3: after he tweeted that poll asking should I still be CEO,

568
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:51,840
Speaker 3: and to his shock, people said no. He really thought

569
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:55,159
Speaker 3: everyone loves him and he got booed on stage with Chappelle.

570
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 3: So I know he knows that it's reached a point

571
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:00,800
Speaker 3: where his reputation has been destroyed. Half the country doesn't

572
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:03,439
Speaker 3: like him. He leans into it on the one side

573
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:05,440
Speaker 3: with a lot of right wing voices, with a lot

574
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:08,280
Speaker 3: of conspiracy theories and things like that and anti Semitism,

575
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:11,119
Speaker 3: But at the same time he's trying to resuscitate himself

576
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:13,520
Speaker 3: by bringing in Linda yak Garino, who's supposed to be

577
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 3: the adult in the room with all the advertisers, but

578
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:18,440
Speaker 3: she has no power, she has no control, and she's

579
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 3: just there because it's an opportunistic situation for her. And

580
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:23,760
Speaker 3: I believe she'll be gone, you know, within the next

581
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:26,040
Speaker 3: six to twelve months, she'll be gone. And then he gets,

582
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:28,960
Speaker 3: you know, Walter Isaacs in to write the big glowing

583
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:31,280
Speaker 3: biography of him, which sort of was part of this

584
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 3: one two punch of reputational resuscitation. But I really think

585
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:38,200
Speaker 3: that Twitter is X as it's called now, is really

586
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 3: spiraling down to something that's pretty much garbage. And I

587
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:43,440
Speaker 3: don't see advertisers coming back. I think engagement is going

588
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:45,360
Speaker 3: to continue to spiral down and the only people are

589
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:46,640
Speaker 3: they going to be on it are going to be

590
00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 3: people who are there for the entertainment or to try

591
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:52,160
Speaker 3: and sell something, but not for conversation because you get

592
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 3: shouted out by all of the awful voices. So it

593
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 3: becomes a subscription based site, it becomes a much smaller

594
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 3: site that's probably the chat room of an everything app

595
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:04,000
Speaker 3: which he's trying to build, which is a dating website,

596
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:06,880
Speaker 3: which is a money website, which is payment structure that

597
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:07,760
Speaker 3: only a few.

598
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:09,120
Speaker 1: You know, does anyone want that?

599
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:12,200
Speaker 3: Just his fan base? I can't imagine anyone outside of

600
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:15,720
Speaker 3: his you know, cult, wanting to put their finances through Elon,

601
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 3: someone who has, you know, acted very mercurially. I guess, yeah, yeah,

602
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 3: I think it would be crazy. Honestly, we trust Zuckerberg

603
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 3: more than we trust Elon now, which is kind of

604
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:29,480
Speaker 3: a spectacular thing. So no, I don't think it will succeed,

605
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:31,520
Speaker 3: but I do think that's the direction it's going. And

606
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:33,840
Speaker 3: it's sad because I think that Twitter we knew is

607
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:37,080
Speaker 3: becoming less and less usable by the day, and we'll

608
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 3: drift away, It'll be gone.

609
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:42,200
Speaker 1: You think he builds an everything app for his people.

610
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:48,640
Speaker 1: They are happy to have it because they love him

611
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 1: so much.

612
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 3: And then why I think what happens is Elon has

613
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 3: to claim victory in some way and then walk away

614
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 3: from it. I mean, I really think the best thing

615
00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 3: that could.

616
00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:58,440
Speaker 1: Happen thanks take it out.

617
00:29:58,520 --> 00:29:59,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, he leaves.

618
00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:02,000
Speaker 3: He gives it back to Jack Dorsey or something like that,

619
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:04,600
Speaker 3: who tries to rebuild what Twitter used to be. You know,

620
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 3: none of the clones in my mind have succeeded in

621
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:10,480
Speaker 3: any way yet. I think at some point, hopefully someone

622
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 3: will make something that was equivalent to old Twitter, but

623
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 3: more likely Elon will claim victory and either spin it

624
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 3: off and it'll rebuild itself, or it'll disappear, or it'll

625
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 3: just be much smaller. But I don't think it can

626
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 3: it can succeed with him running it the way he's

627
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 3: running it, and I think he'd have to step away

628
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:27,440
Speaker 3: from it for it to succeed.

629
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:29,920
Speaker 1: So you think he'll make it look like he succeeded

630
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 1: and then leave.

631
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 3: Well, I mean that's I think. I think he'll turn

632
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 3: it into this everything app of some sort and then

633
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:38,960
Speaker 3: he'll essentially step away from it and Twitter. There will

634
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:41,480
Speaker 3: always be this kind of voice box running around, full

635
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:43,960
Speaker 3: of conspiracy theories and hate and him making his random

636
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 3: tweet now and again, but the engagement will continue to

637
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:48,880
Speaker 3: dwindle downward. There's not going to be any journalists on there,

638
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:50,720
Speaker 3: there's not going to be any news sources on there,

639
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 3: there's not going to be any real celebrities on there.

640
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 3: The devastation of what the brand was will continue to

641
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:58,800
Speaker 3: the point where people will forget what the brand was.

642
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:00,320
Speaker 3: I mean, he used to go on there and there

643
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:02,480
Speaker 3: would be you know, you'd be talking to someone who

644
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 3: knew what they was talking about, right, And now you

645
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:08,680
Speaker 3: can't find that anymore. So either that'll migrate somewhere else,

646
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:11,600
Speaker 3: or that'll just be gone in a way, and everything's

647
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 3: getting siloed. What was interesting about Twitter was it was

648
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 3: the one place that wasn't siloed, where everyone kind of

649
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:20,520
Speaker 3: did interact with each other. But now it's more, you know,

650
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:23,240
Speaker 3: one person with his fans and another person with his fans,

651
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 3: which is kind of how Instagram works. And I think

652
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:28,800
Speaker 3: that maybe there comes another place where everyone can interact

653
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 3: with each other, or maybe he spins it off and

654
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 3: allows it to come back to life.

655
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:35,320
Speaker 1: It is weird the idea that you would have a

656
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 1: site that was both a bank a dating WhatsApp when

657
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:43,120
Speaker 1: you don't have like the very basic user trust.

658
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:45,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's not going to be able to succeed because

659
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 3: he's chased everyone off. That would have, you know, been

660
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 3: the reason it worked.

661
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:50,920
Speaker 2: I don't know.

662
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:53,720
Speaker 3: I mean, I think he's got a group of faithful fans,

663
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:55,760
Speaker 3: as you know, you see, as I see, who are

664
00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 3: a lot of angry people who I don't know can

665
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:01,760
Speaker 3: make a site like that very successful because either there's

666
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 3: not enough of them, or or they just seem to

667
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:05,320
Speaker 3: do whatever it is he tells him to do. So

668
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:07,920
Speaker 3: it seems weird, but you know, he's got a cult

669
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:10,280
Speaker 3: of celebrity, he's got people who love him, so he

670
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:12,480
Speaker 3: might be able to pull off some sort of everything

671
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:15,360
Speaker 3: app among that group. But yes, it seems like the

672
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:17,360
Speaker 3: wrong way to go about it would be to chase

673
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:20,480
Speaker 3: everybody away and turn it into this conspiracy laid and

674
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:22,800
Speaker 3: crap fest and then try and get everyone's credit card.

675
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 3: It seems like that's not the best way to go

676
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:27,280
Speaker 3: about it, but that seems to be the direction he's going.

677
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:30,240
Speaker 1: What do you think about the next thing? Is this truck?

678
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:30,880
Speaker 2: Yeah?

679
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 3: The cyber truck?

680
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 1: Yeah? I mean is there a lot riding on this?

681
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 1: It seems like there is.

682
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 3: I have mixed feelings about this stripcheck. I'll confess. I

683
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:40,800
Speaker 3: put my name on the list when the when it

684
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:42,840
Speaker 3: was first announced to see if I could get one.

685
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 3: I don't think I'm moving high on that list, but

686
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 3: I keep watching the different videos of it. I would

687
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:51,200
Speaker 3: this is the elon that I like. We probably differ

688
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:54,720
Speaker 3: on this, but I love the science fiction elon Who's

689
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 3: you know, trying to get to space in some giant

690
00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 3: stainless steel rocket ship who's making a ridiculous truck that

691
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:03,320
Speaker 3: will drive itself around and you can shoot machine guns

692
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:05,240
Speaker 3: at it? Like I like that Elon.

693
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:05,800
Speaker 2: I love the.

694
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:08,040
Speaker 3: Drama of that Elon and the fun of that Elon.

695
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:08,800
Speaker 2: Who is that for?

696
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 3: Okay, that's a great question. What's really intriguing about Elon

697
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:15,440
Speaker 3: is the electric car movement would be playing to the

698
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 3: base that now dislikes Elon. Right right, the cyber truck,

699
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 3: the truck side of it plays to the base that

700
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 3: loves Elon, but the electric part of it still plays

701
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:29,000
Speaker 3: to the original base. So it's a question of, honestly,

702
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 3: you know, you have to see it on the street

703
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:32,640
Speaker 3: and see how ridiculous it looks. Does it look ridiculous

704
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:33,520
Speaker 3: or is it gonna look cool?

705
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:34,200
Speaker 2: I really don't know.

706
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 3: I've only seen videos so far, so you know, it's

707
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 3: hard for me to make a statement about that. I

708
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:43,560
Speaker 3: think the idea of automatic driving cars is so powerful

709
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:46,680
Speaker 3: that if he succeeds in that, Tesla is the trillion

710
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 3: dollar company and everything else kind of is dwarfed by that.

711
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:51,960
Speaker 3: Because the automatic cars that actually work and are great

712
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:53,520
Speaker 3: and everyone can to have, you know, that's a huge

713
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:56,120
Speaker 3: game changer. But whether it's this truck or just the

714
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:58,760
Speaker 3: regular tesla, I don't know. I'm intrigued by the truck.

715
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 3: I actually do think it will probably have an audience

716
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:02,800
Speaker 3: for it. I mean, there's a lot of people who

717
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:04,840
Speaker 3: want them, and even if it's just a novelty, it

718
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:07,360
Speaker 3: will do well for a while. But it's got to

719
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:09,360
Speaker 3: work and it's got to be automatic for it to

720
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:10,560
Speaker 3: become a big game changer.

721
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:14,320
Speaker 1: This is so interesting. I can't wait to read the book. Ben,

722
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:16,040
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us.

723
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:18,400
Speaker 3: Well, thank you very much. Appreciate it. I know I

724
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:22,040
Speaker 3: feel like there's like a rebellion corner of twitter x

725
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:25,759
Speaker 3: trying to keep it alive and then everyone leaving. I

726
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:28,279
Speaker 3: really do think that he broke it and it broke him,

727
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:31,359
Speaker 3: but I don't think it's irredeemable. I'd love to see

728
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:33,720
Speaker 3: Elon go back to who he was and step away

729
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:36,120
Speaker 3: from this morass. But we'll see what happens.

730
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:44,280
Speaker 1: John Rolston is the editor of the Nevada Independent. Welcome back.

731
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 1: You've been here before, too fast politics.

732
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:48,719
Speaker 2: John, either so.

733
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 1: Great to have you. I wanted you to come on

734
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:56,320
Speaker 1: because I think Democrats have a real problem in your state.

735
00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:59,280
Speaker 1: And I'm hoping you could talk about what the hell

736
00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:01,799
Speaker 1: is happening in Nevada.

737
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 4: Well, the thing is is that Democrats here, smart Democrats,

738
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:08,640
Speaker 4: are very, very worried. They see the trends that have

739
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:12,160
Speaker 4: been happening here since twenty sixteen, and even though they've

740
00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:16,480
Speaker 4: been relatively small, you've seen slight moves to the right

741
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:19,440
Speaker 4: on the part of the Nevada electorate, and you've seen

742
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 4: a loss of the Democratic lead over the Republicans by

743
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:26,880
Speaker 4: a few percentage points, especially in Clark County, which is

744
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:29,440
Speaker 4: where Las Vegas is, as you know, and where the

745
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:33,440
Speaker 4: Democrats have been dominant and had double digit registration leads.

746
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:37,200
Speaker 4: It's now under nine percent and going towards eight percent.

747
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:40,320
Speaker 4: Every little bit's going to matter in a presidential race

748
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:43,200
Speaker 4: that has been decided here the last two cycles by

749
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:45,880
Speaker 4: about two and a half points, and so they are

750
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:50,839
Speaker 4: very very concerned. Republicans think that the Biden is a

751
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:54,160
Speaker 4: slight fadeword here, but they think of certain things happen,

752
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:55,720
Speaker 4: then he can win Trump.

753
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,880
Speaker 1: Yes, it seems to me like your state is a

754
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:02,359
Speaker 1: perfect storm Democratic Party. So talk to me about the

755
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:05,920
Speaker 1: state of the Democratic Party in Nevada.

756
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 4: So it's still pretty good. People think that the Red Machine,

757
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 4: which is, you know, the house that Harry Reid belt

758
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:15,320
Speaker 4: Beltway fifteen years ago, and there's been a formidable force

759
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:18,840
Speaker 4: in Nevada politics and a model for others to follow.

760
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:21,760
Speaker 4: They think that now that Harry Reid has passed away,

761
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:23,720
Speaker 4: that it's just not there anymore.

762
00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:24,760
Speaker 2: And that's just not true.

763
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:28,839
Speaker 4: And they believe that in twenty twenty two, when the

764
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 4: Democrats won a lot and narrowly missed re electing a

765
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:37,319
Speaker 4: very very troubled incumbent who had been hit by by

766
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:40,840
Speaker 4: COVID and some other issues, so the Red Machine is alive,

767
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:44,000
Speaker 4: and well, they know what they're doing. They know how

768
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:48,080
Speaker 4: to find some real Democratic voters among this absolutely ocean

769
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:52,080
Speaker 4: of independent voters that have sprouted here in Nevada. But

770
00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 4: I have to say, Molly, I have been making fun

771
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:58,520
Speaker 4: of the Republican Party here for a long time. They

772
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:03,840
Speaker 4: are a real, you know, on gaggle of clowns and unprofessionals,

773
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:06,279
Speaker 4: and so it hasn't been a fair fight. But the

774
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 4: team that Joe Lombardo, the new governor, the new Republican governor,

775
00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:14,320
Speaker 4: has put together that helped him squeak by in twenty

776
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:17,440
Speaker 4: twenty two is still around and they know what they're doing.

777
00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:21,000
Speaker 4: A lot of this is copycat stuff right from the

778
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 4: read machine, but they have done it and they are

779
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:25,000
Speaker 4: going to be a force next year.

780
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:28,120
Speaker 1: What you're saying is that the Republican Party has really

781
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:30,320
Speaker 1: gotten it shit together in your state.

782
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:34,640
Speaker 4: Well, the Republican Party is still pretty much as an

783
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:38,800
Speaker 4: institution in this day, a clown show, but the governor

784
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:41,239
Speaker 4: and his people have been smart enough to bring some

785
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:44,600
Speaker 4: of those people inside the tent and neutralize them while

786
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:49,080
Speaker 4: building an actually an actual professional political machine, which has

787
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:51,480
Speaker 4: not been seen here on the Republican side in a

788
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 4: long time.

789
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:55,320
Speaker 1: So that's one thing. And then you have the demographic

790
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:58,879
Speaker 1: change in Nevada, which I think is really important and

791
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:01,360
Speaker 1: that's why this state should be a source of so

792
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:03,920
Speaker 1: much anxiety to all of us. But let's be honest.

793
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:05,560
Speaker 1: Everything is a source of anxiety.

794
00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:09,120
Speaker 5: But yes, continue, yeah, I mean, listen, you know Nevada

795
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:12,640
Speaker 5: a lot of people and I'm sure you're not this way, Molly,

796
00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:16,240
Speaker 5: think that Nevada some kind of alien world where people

797
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:19,560
Speaker 5: are not normal and there's bookers and slot machines on

798
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 5: every corner, and it's it's a state that doesn't behave

799
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:23,840
Speaker 5: as others do.

800
00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:27,640
Speaker 4: But really Las Vegas, which is you know, has Clark

801
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:31,799
Speaker 4: County has two thirds or more of the population, is

802
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:35,759
Speaker 4: a microcosm of the country. The demographic changes here. It's

803
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:39,320
Speaker 4: a real melting pot. The Hispanic vote has become usually

804
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:43,120
Speaker 4: important here, but they've been losing the Democrats, that is,

805
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:47,719
Speaker 4: incrementally on the Hispanic vote every cycle since twenty sixteen,

806
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:51,120
Speaker 4: and so the Democrats are concerned about that. Now. A

807
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:53,400
Speaker 4: lot of people think this is you know, it's a

808
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:56,440
Speaker 4: year out, this is the usual bed wedding that goes on,

809
00:38:56,680 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 4: and Adam Lax always claiming it fifty percent of Hispanic

810
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:04,320
Speaker 4: vote in twenty twenty two, and Catherine Cortes Maasto still

811
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:07,800
Speaker 4: did quite well, although not quite as well as for instance,

812
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:12,080
Speaker 4: Obama and then Hillary did here among the Hispanics. So

813
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:17,800
Speaker 4: they have concerns, and listen, they are still a formidable force.

814
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:22,360
Speaker 4: The Red machine is still run by the same people, Molly,

815
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:25,000
Speaker 4: who know what they're doing. But they're worried about the

816
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:27,480
Speaker 4: demographic changes that are going on across the country and

817
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:30,080
Speaker 4: are making Democrats very very anxious.

818
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:32,719
Speaker 1: And that's young Hispanic voters.

819
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:34,280
Speaker 4: It is mostly yet.

820
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:38,480
Speaker 1: Which again is not a monolist. Hispanic voters can be

821
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:41,759
Speaker 1: from Cuba, they can be from Puerto Rico. They have

822
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:45,200
Speaker 1: different needs, they have different wants. That's not a block, now,

823
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 1: that's absolutely right.

824
00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:50,520
Speaker 4: I think we in the political analysis field often describe

825
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:53,600
Speaker 4: these demographic groups as monolists, and they're not. And Hispanics

826
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 4: are perfect example of that. You know, most of the

827
00:39:56,560 --> 00:40:00,000
Speaker 4: ones here are Mexican immigrants, but there are Cubans here

828
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:02,600
Speaker 4: and they tend to be a little bit more conservative.

829
00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:04,239
Speaker 4: But let me just give you a perfect example of

830
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:07,560
Speaker 4: what I'm talking about. With the Republican governor's team. They've

831
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:11,800
Speaker 4: essentially co opted one of the most prominent Hispanic leaders

832
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:14,600
Speaker 4: in this state, a guy named Peter Guzman, who is

833
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:17,480
Speaker 4: the head of the Latin Chamber of Commerce and it

834
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:19,480
Speaker 4: wants to be a political player.

835
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:20,200
Speaker 2: And the governor.

836
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:23,400
Speaker 4: He is on the governor's team essentially, and then is

837
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:27,480
Speaker 4: in some small way, how small, how marginal, I don't know,

838
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:28,680
Speaker 4: going to help them.

839
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:31,040
Speaker 1: I think that's a really good point. So let me

840
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:34,160
Speaker 1: ask you, if you're in Biden world right now, what

841
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:39,400
Speaker 1: are young Hispanic voters in Nevada? What do they need?

842
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:42,680
Speaker 1: What do they want? What are they looking for? Democrats

843
00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:43,840
Speaker 1: to provide for them.

844
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:46,280
Speaker 4: Well, I don't think it's that different than any other place.

845
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:49,719
Speaker 4: They're looking for an improvement in their economic lot. Even

846
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 4: though as you know, there's been a lot of negative

847
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:55,680
Speaker 4: media coverage of the economy in this country. It is

848
00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:58,520
Speaker 4: rebounded pretty well on a lot of the indicators.

849
00:40:58,600 --> 00:40:59,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, pretty good.

850
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:03,319
Speaker 4: But Nevada was crushed by the COVID epidemic because we're

851
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:06,920
Speaker 4: essentially a one trick pony, right Like, our entire economy

852
00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:09,440
Speaker 4: is dependent on this little strip of land called the

853
00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:12,480
Speaker 4: Las Vegas Strip, and it's shut down for a few months,

854
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:15,839
Speaker 4: and so our unemployment rate went way up into into

855
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:19,080
Speaker 4: like fifteen eighteen percent range. It's way down now, but

856
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:21,279
Speaker 4: it's still the highest in the country. And a lot

857
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:25,359
Speaker 4: of Hispanics are workers in the casinos. Not all of

858
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:28,480
Speaker 4: them have gotten their jobs back, younger Hispanics, and so

859
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:31,680
Speaker 4: they're not thrilled about what's happened. Well, you've been around

860
00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:35,000
Speaker 4: long enough. It's not fair to blame presidents for the economy,

861
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 4: but they do. They point at who's the most prominent

862
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:41,360
Speaker 4: figure they can, whether it's a governor or president, depending

863
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:44,800
Speaker 4: on the cycle, and that person either gets the credit maybe,

864
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:46,400
Speaker 4: but definitely gets the blame.

865
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:50,279
Speaker 1: Some of the things that voters have really voted on

866
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:54,840
Speaker 1: in the last couple elections have been abortion right, have

867
00:41:55,000 --> 00:42:00,600
Speaker 1: been government overreach when it comes to the social issues,

868
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:03,799
Speaker 1: Like if you look at Florida, you have Desanta's like

869
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:07,439
Speaker 1: don't say a gay deciding what books people can read,

870
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:10,680
Speaker 1: what is taught in schools. I mean, do you think

871
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:13,160
Speaker 1: that message resonates in your state?

872
00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:17,040
Speaker 4: I do, And especially on abortion. I think you could

873
00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:20,920
Speaker 4: make a pretty convincing argument that abortion of that issue

874
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 4: saved Catherine Cortes Massto in twenty twenty two. Now, it's

875
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:27,040
Speaker 4: not often that you're going to have a candidate as

876
00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:30,640
Speaker 4: dumb as Adam Laxel to say on take Roe versus

877
00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:33,360
Speaker 4: weight was always a joke, and they have that audio

878
00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:35,920
Speaker 4: and they can play that over and over again. But

879
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:39,960
Speaker 4: whoever the Republicans nominate in that Senate race, which is

880
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:42,320
Speaker 4: going to be a marquee Senate race because Jackie Rosen

881
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:45,560
Speaker 4: is considered a target, is going to be very much

882
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:48,279
Speaker 4: pro life and this is a pro choice state. That's

883
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:49,959
Speaker 4: another thing people don't realize about.

884
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:50,360
Speaker 2: In Nevad.

885
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:52,719
Speaker 4: We have had a referendum here more and more than

886
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:56,120
Speaker 4: thirty years ago in which they cemented the twenty four

887
00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:59,080
Speaker 4: week statute in place. It can only be changed by referendum,

888
00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:01,560
Speaker 4: and the Democrats aren't going to rest on that. They're

889
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:03,960
Speaker 4: going to try to get a referendum up again in

890
00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:08,200
Speaker 4: twenty twenty four to put those protections in the state constitution.

891
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:10,960
Speaker 4: I think they think that if it's not a silver

892
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:14,640
Speaker 4: bullet for them, it is going to help push very

893
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:18,000
Speaker 4: close races in their favor, and if history is a guide,

894
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:21,200
Speaker 4: they may be right now again all the caveats that

895
00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:23,920
Speaker 4: go with it being, you know, in November of twenty

896
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:26,759
Speaker 4: twenty three. I think they're banking on that based on

897
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:29,120
Speaker 4: what their messaging has been so far.

898
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:32,760
Speaker 1: So it sounds like to me what is really important

899
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:36,360
Speaker 1: right now with Nevada is that it's not taken for granted.

900
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:43,120
Speaker 1: The Democrats focus on registering voters, speaking to young Hispanic voters,

901
00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:47,520
Speaker 1: trying to get ahead of what does seem like a

902
00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:49,040
Speaker 1: real demographic shift.

903
00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:52,319
Speaker 4: I think all of that is true, and I think

904
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:56,120
Speaker 4: they are helped by if the Lombardo machine is the

905
00:43:56,120 --> 00:43:59,560
Speaker 4: competitor to the read machine. The Lombardo machine is much

906
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:03,759
Speaker 4: more focused on state legislative races than they are on

907
00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:07,240
Speaker 4: the Senate race or the presidential race, because the governor

908
00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:12,120
Speaker 4: is facing potential supermajorities in both houses of the legislature,

909
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:15,120
Speaker 4: so they will be distracted, they will not be as

910
00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:18,399
Speaker 4: invested in that, and I think that helps the Democrats

911
00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:22,000
Speaker 4: to some extent because they're just focused on isolated districts.

912
00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:25,200
Speaker 4: Doesn't mean they can't be effective, but they care much

913
00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:28,279
Speaker 4: more about making sure that there are no supermajorities in

914
00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:32,000
Speaker 4: the legislature because that makes the governor essentially irrelevant, as

915
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:35,240
Speaker 4: you know, because they can they can override any veto.

916
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:38,879
Speaker 4: So that's their main focus and so that is in

917
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:43,080
Speaker 4: some intangible way an advantage for the Democrats as well.

918
00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:45,480
Speaker 4: But you know, listen, they got to get their base out.

919
00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:47,960
Speaker 4: They've got they've got to make sure that the Hispanics

920
00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:51,400
Speaker 4: still are voting in great numbers for their candidates. And

921
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:54,960
Speaker 4: that means you're right, young Hispanics, but young voters in

922
00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:58,840
Speaker 4: general too. They are trying to mobilize in different ways.

923
00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:00,799
Speaker 2: That's not that easy to do these days.

924
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:05,280
Speaker 1: As you know, what does this state look like demographically, Well,

925
00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:06,560
Speaker 1: I mean I'm not sure.

926
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:10,440
Speaker 4: I mean, are you asking for you know, Democrats, Republicans, young, old,

927
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:11,600
Speaker 4: all of it.

928
00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:16,000
Speaker 1: Clark County is the sort of population center, and then

929
00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:18,799
Speaker 1: the rest is rural and red or I mean, that's

930
00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:21,360
Speaker 1: how most states are, but I'm just curious.

931
00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:24,160
Speaker 4: So NOVED, I always say, is essentially three states when

932
00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:27,960
Speaker 4: it comes to statewide elections and presidential elections. There is

933
00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:30,560
Speaker 4: Las Vegas Clark County, which, as I said, is two

934
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:33,919
Speaker 4: thirds of the vote, which were Democrats have an advantage,

935
00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:36,960
Speaker 4: not as great as it once was, but substantial. Eight

936
00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:39,839
Speaker 4: and a half percent is still substantial. Then there are

937
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:44,239
Speaker 4: fifteen rural counties in between Las Vegas and the other

938
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:48,279
Speaker 4: urban center, which is Reno. And those rural counties are

939
00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:52,040
Speaker 4: all very red, some of them so red that you know,

940
00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:55,240
Speaker 4: they want to name buildings after Donald Trump or streets

941
00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:58,680
Speaker 4: after Donald Trump. That's how red they are. Then there's Reno,

942
00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:02,200
Speaker 4: which is in wa r County, which is about fifteen

943
00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:04,840
Speaker 4: percent of the vote, eighteen percent of the vote Walley

944
00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:07,520
Speaker 4: and that's the swing county in Nevada. That is shit

945
00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:11,120
Speaker 4: that it used to be fairly reliably read. But you know,

946
00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:15,360
Speaker 4: Killery one Washae County, Biden one Washoe County, even Catherine

947
00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:19,600
Speaker 4: Courtes mass though one Washoe County, which is where Adam

948
00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:23,000
Speaker 4: Laxall supposedly lives. I don't really think he lives very

949
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:26,920
Speaker 4: often in Nevada, but that's where he supposedly lives. Still,

950
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:30,319
Speaker 4: she won that. So it's essentially three states. And the

951
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:33,320
Speaker 4: way you win a statewide election here if you're a Democrat,

952
00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:36,000
Speaker 4: as you build up a big enough lead in Clark

953
00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:39,080
Speaker 4: County because of the advantage there, to head off the

954
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:42,719
Speaker 4: twelve percent of the landslide the vote that you're going

955
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:44,520
Speaker 4: to lose in the rurals, and then hope you can

956
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:47,480
Speaker 4: break even in Washoe County. That's the prescription that's been

957
00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:51,560
Speaker 4: used for decades. It almost didn't work for Catherine courtes

958
00:46:51,680 --> 00:46:54,360
Speaker 4: Mass though, but it did by eight thousand votes.

959
00:46:54,719 --> 00:46:57,879
Speaker 1: So there's a Senate seat in this race that's up.

960
00:46:58,320 --> 00:47:01,799
Speaker 1: It is really this map is a shit show. I

961
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:04,000
Speaker 1: mean it's actually it's not a shit show. I shouldn't

962
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:07,160
Speaker 1: say that. As long as Democrats can hold on to

963
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:13,440
Speaker 1: Montana and Ohio with shareon, they all be okay. But

964
00:47:13,600 --> 00:47:17,080
Speaker 1: they really need to win that rosen Seed. Is rosen

965
00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:21,360
Speaker 1: a better candidate than Cortez Mastow and will she suffer

966
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:24,760
Speaker 1: some of the same problems? I mean Cortez Masto again,

967
00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:26,319
Speaker 1: she did get reelected.

968
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:29,040
Speaker 4: So she did, you know what, I guess it depends

969
00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:31,600
Speaker 4: how you define better. Catherine Court does mass have been

970
00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:34,520
Speaker 4: in politics a lot longer than Jackie Rosen has. I mean,

971
00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:38,200
Speaker 4: Jackie Rosen was like an accidental candidate for Congress when

972
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:40,560
Speaker 4: Harry Reid and his slops were looking through the phone

973
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:43,799
Speaker 4: book to find somebody, and they got Jackie Rose who

974
00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:46,520
Speaker 4: then won and then ran for the Senate the very

975
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:52,280
Speaker 4: next cycle and beat Dean Heller in twenty eighteen pretty decisively. Actually,

976
00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:55,239
Speaker 4: she has less baggage per se than Catherine Court as

977
00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:58,480
Speaker 4: Master did because she hasn't been in politics as long.

978
00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:01,960
Speaker 4: She's put up a pretty organization around her. They know

979
00:48:02,520 --> 00:48:05,920
Speaker 4: what they're doing. The real problem that even if people

980
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:08,960
Speaker 4: thought that Animal Assault was a great candidate because of

981
00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:11,880
Speaker 4: the name and former attorney general and the rest of it,

982
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:15,440
Speaker 4: he really wasn't. They have really struggled this time, the

983
00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:19,040
Speaker 4: National Republicans to find someone, and they're putting all of

984
00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:23,759
Speaker 4: their hopes in Sam Brown, who has never won a

985
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:27,000
Speaker 4: race either here or in Texas. And while he has

986
00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:29,600
Speaker 4: a great story to tell us as this you know,

987
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:33,520
Speaker 4: scarred veteran hero, he has not been here very long.

988
00:48:33,640 --> 00:48:36,680
Speaker 4: He's taken some contradictory positions, and he's got to win

989
00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:39,799
Speaker 4: a primary where there is a you know, one of

990
00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:43,880
Speaker 4: the most far right maga crazies who has a base

991
00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:48,520
Speaker 4: who almost want a statewide race. Frighteningly enough, last cycle,

992
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:50,880
Speaker 4: I think Sam Brown, if he gets out of that primary,

993
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:53,560
Speaker 4: has a chance against Jackie Rosen, just because of the

994
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:56,479
Speaker 4: demographics of the state and what we've been talking about.

995
00:48:56,520 --> 00:48:59,840
Speaker 4: But there's no evidence that he's a very strong candidate.

996
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:03,000
Speaker 4: He's never won anything. Imagine in a key center race

997
00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:05,319
Speaker 4: in the country, Republicans are banking on a guy who

998
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:07,439
Speaker 4: hasn't even been in the state very long and has

999
00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:08,279
Speaker 4: never won a race.

1000
00:49:08,719 --> 00:49:12,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, luckily, you know, it's not my problem,

1001
00:49:12,200 --> 00:49:16,479
Speaker 1: but that seems like a terrible plan for Republicans. But uh,

1002
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:18,440
Speaker 1: let's not tell them though.

1003
00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:21,880
Speaker 4: It's the only one they've got. That's the issue. Because

1004
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:24,400
Speaker 4: of how successful the Democrats have been in this state

1005
00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:27,839
Speaker 4: over the last few cycles, the Republicans don't have much

1006
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:30,279
Speaker 4: of a bench, and so this is what they're stuck with.

1007
00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:34,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I mean Adam Laxaw was just an amazing

1008
00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:37,759
Speaker 1: candidate because he did seem so unhanded.

1009
00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:41,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, he's a terrible candidate. He was an embarrassment to

1010
00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:45,279
Speaker 4: his family, which split and then endorsed Catherine Cortez mass All,

1011
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:49,080
Speaker 4: just as they endorsed Si Silac before him. But yeah,

1012
00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:51,920
Speaker 4: I mean he did become increasingly unhandsive. He's just a

1013
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:54,960
Speaker 4: right wing talking points machine, and once you get him

1014
00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:57,439
Speaker 4: off of that, he's going to say something like Roe

1015
00:49:57,480 --> 00:49:59,840
Speaker 4: versus Wade was always a joke. Actually, the look on

1016
00:49:59,880 --> 00:50:03,000
Speaker 4: his campaign advisors when they heard that one Adam lack

1017
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:05,719
Speaker 4: Salt was seen by the national media some kind of

1018
00:50:05,920 --> 00:50:07,080
Speaker 4: really great candidate.

1019
00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:07,960
Speaker 2: He wasn't.

1020
00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:11,320
Speaker 4: But don't forget even though he was not, he still

1021
00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:12,640
Speaker 4: almost won that race.

1022
00:50:13,280 --> 00:50:14,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, back a court.

1023
00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:16,520
Speaker 4: That's mass though, who is a good candidate and ran

1024
00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:17,400
Speaker 4: a good campaign.

1025
00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:21,720
Speaker 1: I hope that Nevada can be on the national radar

1026
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:25,280
Speaker 1: because treating it like a FETA complete is really a mistake.

1027
00:50:25,719 --> 00:50:27,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's not that they're not even close to a

1028
00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:29,840
Speaker 4: FATA complete. If Sam Brown is out of the primary,

1029
00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:32,120
Speaker 4: it'll be it should be a real race because as

1030
00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:34,080
Speaker 4: you know, it doesn't matter how much money he can raise.

1031
00:50:34,120 --> 00:50:37,200
Speaker 4: It's the outside resources that are going to drive that race,

1032
00:50:37,239 --> 00:50:39,440
Speaker 4: and there'll be tens of millions of dollars poured in.

1033
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:41,879
Speaker 4: But if Sam Brown does not win that primary by

1034
00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:45,000
Speaker 4: some chance, it's not remote either. He has a chance

1035
00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:47,799
Speaker 4: to lose. The Republicans wording waste a dine year because

1036
00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:50,160
Speaker 4: none of their other candidate says any chance in the

1037
00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:50,920
Speaker 4: general election.

1038
00:50:51,320 --> 00:50:54,480
Speaker 1: When is your primary in June? June, so we have

1039
00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:57,359
Speaker 1: a little time to obsess about this, John, I really

1040
00:50:57,440 --> 00:51:00,759
Speaker 1: appreciate you coming on. I really felt like it was

1041
00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:05,239
Speaker 1: an important story. That state is a nailbier. Democrats need

1042
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:08,680
Speaker 1: to continue to focus on it. It really is the

1043
00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:15,440
Speaker 1: juggernaut of the problem with you Democrats appealing to Hispanic voters,

1044
00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:18,600
Speaker 1: and if they can't do that, they're going to eventually

1045
00:51:18,640 --> 00:51:19,600
Speaker 1: lose the country.

1046
00:51:19,719 --> 00:51:22,520
Speaker 4: You're absolutely right, and I love talking about this and

1047
00:51:22,560 --> 00:51:23,759
Speaker 4: I love coming on with you, Molly.

1048
00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:24,880
Speaker 2: It's always fun to talk to you.

1049
00:51:25,080 --> 00:51:32,320
Speaker 1: Thanks for coming you bet they're no moment, Jesse Cannon,

1050
00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:37,160
Speaker 1: Molly jong Fest. You know there is a blast from

1051
00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:40,440
Speaker 1: the past. Yeah, many evil families in this country, but

1052
00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:43,520
Speaker 1: this one is it's almost like a sleeper cell at

1053
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:45,680
Speaker 1: this point that they've been gone for a little while

1054
00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:48,440
Speaker 1: in the news, but they're back as a person with

1055
00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:52,320
Speaker 1: a very large forehead. Whenever she comes back into the news.

1056
00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:56,439
Speaker 1: I'm very conflicted because she's evil, but she does also

1057
00:51:56,560 --> 00:51:59,600
Speaker 1: have a large forehead, so when I see her, I'm

1058
00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:03,640
Speaker 1: reminded of my own enormous forehead, the one, the only

1059
00:52:03,800 --> 00:52:09,920
Speaker 1: Rebecca Mercer. She's back. They are absolutely the most evil family.

1060
00:52:10,080 --> 00:52:13,080
Speaker 1: You may remember them from giving tons of money to Breitbart.

1061
00:52:13,440 --> 00:52:18,640
Speaker 1: They are giving eighty eight point four million dollars. It's

1062
00:52:18,680 --> 00:52:21,160
Speaker 1: a little known eighty eight point four million dollar war

1063
00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:25,120
Speaker 1: chest that is going to have a sizable impact on

1064
00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:28,400
Speaker 1: the election, and they are going to give it to

1065
00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:34,800
Speaker 1: Donald J. Trump because well, a lot of voters don't

1066
00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:39,920
Speaker 1: like fascism. The Mercers their fans, and they are the

1067
00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:43,920
Speaker 1: return of the Mercers, putting back the Death Star. They

1068
00:52:43,960 --> 00:52:48,200
Speaker 1: are our moment of Fuckerray. That's it for this episode

1069
00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:51,800
Speaker 1: of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday and Friday

1070
00:52:52,040 --> 00:52:54,600
Speaker 1: to hear the best minds in politics makes sense of

1071
00:52:54,760 --> 00:52:58,280
Speaker 1: all this chaos. If you enjoyed what you've heard, please

1072
00:52:58,360 --> 00:53:00,840
Speaker 1: send it to a friend and keep the conversation going.

1073
00:53:01,239 --> 00:53:02,920
Speaker 1: And again, thanks for listening.