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Speaker 1: Welcome to Wednesday. Assuming you're listening right away, because I

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Speaker 1: know you guys are immediately the download is coming through.

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Speaker 1: If our friends at Apple will ever get their podcast

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Speaker 1: situation straightened out, I know some of you, and I

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Speaker 1: apologize for that, are subscribing and wondering how come I'm

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Speaker 1: not getting a notification. Then you realize, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: I'm three podcasts behind. Come on, Apple, get your act together.

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Speaker 1: Obviously on YouTube and in the other places it's working

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Speaker 1: quite well. Our friends at Apple they need to figure

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Speaker 1: this out, and I have now come to find out

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Speaker 1: I'm not alone here. Quite a few podcasts, some on

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Speaker 1: the left, some on the right, some like me comfortably

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Speaker 1: or uncomfortably in the middle, are experiencing the same issues

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Speaker 1: with Apple, so clearly they haven't figured out what's wrong

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Speaker 1: with their podcast app and their most recent update. I

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Speaker 1: will let the technical rant go from there, but I

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Speaker 1: also want to promote what the rest of this podcast

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Speaker 1: is going to be about. Today. I'm going to do

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Speaker 1: a little update on all things twenty twenty six and

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Speaker 1: mid term and a few political items that have caught

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Speaker 1: my eye over the last forty eight hours. But I

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Speaker 1: also have a terrific conversation that I think you're going

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Speaker 1: to enjoy with Jane Coaston. You may know her from

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Speaker 1: The New York Times and some of her column writing there.

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Speaker 1: You may now know her from her daily podcast that's

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Speaker 1: part of the pod Save America, World, Crooked Media and

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Speaker 1: all of that. I've known her a long time. I've

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Speaker 1: had her as a guest of my podcast over the

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Speaker 1: various iterations that I've had, and let's just say, we

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Speaker 1: always seem to have plenty to talk about, and we

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Speaker 1: have a good time talking about it, whether it's handringing

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Speaker 1: about the media, talking politics, figuring out how to get

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Speaker 1: people to debate better, or perhaps most importantly, our collective

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Speaker 1: love for college football and our collective hate for the SEC.

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Speaker 1: So if all those things are the ingredients that you

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Speaker 1: seem to like, and I think if you're subscribing to me,

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Speaker 1: you probably like a bit of all of those ingredients

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Speaker 1: in your conversation. Well, this one with Jane has all

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Speaker 1: of that and more. Before we get to it, I

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Speaker 1: thought I would share with you a little bit what

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Speaker 1: my lead topic is in my substat column this week,

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Speaker 1: and it's simply asking this question, who's the bigger liability

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Speaker 1: in twenty twenty six. So specifically, here's the question. It's

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Speaker 1: one both political parties are going to have to confront,

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Speaker 1: which are the two unpopular presidents Joe Biden or Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump is going to be the bigger political liability for

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Speaker 1: their party heading into twenty twenty six, Because yes, I believe,

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Speaker 1: no matter what both are liabilities, I do not envision

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Speaker 1: a moment where either Biden or Trump is a net

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Speaker 1: positive come November of twenty twenty six for either party,

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Speaker 1: and perhaps for any candidate. Maybe there's an exception or two,

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Speaker 1: but I think that's a pretty safe bet. So the

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Speaker 1: question is which one is going to be a bigger drag,

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Speaker 1: who's got the heavier baggage for their party to carry well.

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Speaker 1: At first glance, you think, well, this is a simple answer.

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Speaker 1: It's Trump, right, He's the one who's been indeted investigated

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Speaker 1: in Peach. Oh, by the way, he's the one sitting

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Speaker 1: in office, and midterm elections are usually referendums on the

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Speaker 1: guy in office. Right, and we already know that Trump

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Speaker 1: is polarizing, has already had bad mid term in twenty eighteen,

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Speaker 1: and in some ways he made the twenty twenty two

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Speaker 1: midterms about himself, midterms don't go well for Trump and

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Speaker 1: his voters. So the likelihood that this thing is more

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Speaker 1: about Trump than anybody else is, you know, it's pretty

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Speaker 1: safe bet right. But we are talking about Trump here, right,

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Speaker 1: and his ability to loom over a cycle. Sometimes he

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Speaker 1: has the ability to sort of change the weather, so

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Speaker 1: to speak. So that takes me to Biden, and there's

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Speaker 1: some lessons from Trump that we can apply here, so

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Speaker 1: let's talk about him. It's rare that a former president

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Speaker 1: could cast a bigger shadow over the midterms than a

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Speaker 1: sitting president. You would say, boy, when did that last happen?

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Speaker 1: But guess what, you only have to go back literally

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Speaker 1: four years twenty twenty two to find an example. I

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Speaker 1: guess technically three years now, but I'm already speaking in

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Speaker 1: terms of twenty twenty six for what it's worth. But

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Speaker 1: in twenty twenty two, Trump, a former president, had arguably

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Speaker 1: more influence over those midterms than Joe Biden did, the

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Speaker 1: sitting president, And that should be a bit of a

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Speaker 1: warning sign to Democrats. Just because your guys off the

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Speaker 1: stage doesn't mean voters won't stop holding your party accountable

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Speaker 1: for that party leader. Now, there are some things that

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Speaker 1: are different why was Trump still such a fourth in

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty two. Well, his base never left him. He

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Speaker 1: never conceded the twenty twenty election, and he got his

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Speaker 1: own supporters never to sort of concede that he lost,

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Speaker 1: which meant he never conceded leadership of the Republican Party,

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Speaker 1: and so he was able to galvanize his voters. Whatever

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Speaker 1: anger they had, they didn't apply it to him for

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Speaker 1: being the loser and costing the Republican Party leadership, but

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Speaker 1: instead he channeled their rage at others. Right now, he

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Speaker 1: handpicked candidates, and he had such influence that he perhaps

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Speaker 1: ended up siding with some really flawed candidates, and voters

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Speaker 1: didn't like it and they all flamed out. But he

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Speaker 1: shaped that cycle. And in many ways, the Republican underperformance

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Speaker 1: is because of Donald Trump, and because of the fact

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Speaker 1: in some ways voters may have been punishing the party

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Speaker 1: for not moving beyond Trump, at least those swing voters

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Speaker 1: in a midterm election. So now let's try to figure

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Speaker 1: out if Biden could end up stumbling into the same role. Right,

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Speaker 1: try to imagine Biden playing that kind of role in

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty six. Picture Joe. You'd have to picture Joe

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Speaker 1: Biden showing up to every swing district, forcing party leaders

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Speaker 1: to kiss his wing, and weighing in un primary battles.

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Speaker 1: It's just not who Biden is, right and frankly, it's

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Speaker 1: not what most Democrats want from him right now. You know,

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Speaker 1: base of the Republican Party still like Trump in twenty

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Speaker 1: two based of the Democratic Party does not not happy

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Speaker 1: with Joe Biden these days. And here's a bigger problem

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Speaker 1: potentially for Democrats. In twenty twenty one, Republicans were mad,

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Speaker 1: but they weren't mad at Trump, and twenty twenty five

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Speaker 1: Democrats are mad and a lot of that anger is

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Speaker 1: aimed at Biden. It's not exactly a recipe for influence.

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Speaker 1: So there's no Biden isis wing of the party. There's

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Speaker 1: no cadre of candidates that are going to run proudly

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Speaker 1: on the Biden legacy. And unlike Trump, he doesn't have

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Speaker 1: a culti personality capable of swinging up primary right. Tell

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Speaker 1: me outside the state of Delaware where Biden's influence could

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Speaker 1: literally move a primary campaign right now? It kind of that,

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Speaker 1: you could say, it might have in twenty eighteen when

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Speaker 1: he was a prospective candidate, but not now, not after

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Speaker 1: the disaster that he left the party in on that front.

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Speaker 1: Now you know that Republicans are going to do everything

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Speaker 1: they can to keep Biden in the spotlight. There'll be

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Speaker 1: attempts at investigations, hearings, conspiracies about medical records or why

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Speaker 1: he waited to drop out. Now, whether any of these

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Speaker 1: tactics gain traction legally doesn't really matter. They'll be designed

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Speaker 1: simply to muddy the waters. You could picture Trump using

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Speaker 1: his influence that he now has over the FBI and

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Speaker 1: the Department of Justice to at least concoct opening investigations.

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Speaker 1: You may not see a prosecution, you may not see

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Speaker 1: a trial, but that doesn't mean they don't open an

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Speaker 1: investigation and make sure everybody knows they've opened an investigation.

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Speaker 1: So that is likely, right, he is going on the

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Speaker 1: idiot and it might be about Hunter, and it might

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Speaker 1: be about all sorts of those things. And they're going

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Speaker 1: to try to keep Biden in the news. We've seen

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Speaker 1: it already. Trump constantly refers to the auto pen these days, right,

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Speaker 1: And he wants he believes that when Biden is long,

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Speaker 1: people may not like him, but like the old Biden

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Speaker 1: mantra as long as they're comparing him to the alternative,

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Speaker 1: than voters who may not like Biden are reminded, remember

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Speaker 1: what you really didn't like over here with Joe Biden. Now,

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Speaker 1: Trump does face a real problem here, Still deeply unpopular

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Speaker 1: with swing voters. His approval rating hasn't cracked forty five percent,

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Speaker 1: and unlike twenty sixteen or twenty twenty, he's not running

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Speaker 1: against a hypothetical future. He's back being the city president.

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Speaker 1: And he's not passing a new tax cut. He's just

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Speaker 1: literally reaffirming an old tax cut. He's got nothing to

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Speaker 1: deliver to voters, and that's you know, I cannot There's

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Speaker 1: nothing in this bill right now, this big beautiful bill

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Speaker 1: that I can point to, that's going to be a

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Speaker 1: net positive for voters in twenty twenty six. They could

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Speaker 1: be net neutral, but there seems to be a lot

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Speaker 1: more potential net negatives here than net positives. Because you

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Speaker 1: know what's funny here the reason the Republicans are stuck

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Speaker 1: dealing with the tax cut extension, and they're now doing

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Speaker 1: it on Trump's watch. This was designed right. Think about

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Speaker 1: when they passed the tax cut. They passed it in

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Speaker 1: twenty eighteen, and they did it. They had it expire

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Speaker 1: in twenty twenty five. Why did they have it expire

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Speaker 1: in twenty twenty five, Well, they assumed that, you know,

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Speaker 1: at best Trump would have his two terms and it

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Speaker 1: would likely have to be a Democratic president stuck with

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Speaker 1: the choice of either raising taxes or keeping the tax

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Speaker 1: rates the same. But it's now Trump because of the

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Speaker 1: non consecutive term business where he's And you know, Biden didn't,

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Speaker 1: you know, despite threats by some Democrats, Biden didn't you know,

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Speaker 1: recind the Trump tax cuts. They didn't mess with them,

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Speaker 1: and instead now it is Trump. And why did they

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Speaker 1: put a cut off date. Well, it was to make

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Speaker 1: the debt and deficit numbers look better than they actually were. Well,

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Speaker 1: guess what this is now? What is causing Republicans so

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Speaker 1: much heartburn about trying to put this bill together because

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Speaker 1: they've got to They got to figure out either how

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Speaker 1: to calculate the cost of the tax cuts via the

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Speaker 1: debt and deficit or come up with some convoluted way

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Speaker 1: to try to pay for it. Right, there was some

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Speaker 1: fantasy that Trump had that it would be as tariffs

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Speaker 1: that would pay for us the tax cut extension. I

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Speaker 1: think there's some people that think somehow they if they

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Speaker 1: recalculate all the gold and Fort Knox to present day dollars,

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Speaker 1: that they can somehow have an impact on the deficit

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Speaker 1: numbers and the overall debt. The point is they were

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Speaker 1: not wanting to deal with this themselves. Republicans were pretty

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Speaker 1: irresponsible about how they put this bill together in twenty eighteen,

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Speaker 1: and they were basically kicking the debt can down the road. Well,

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Speaker 1: it is still now in their hands. And this is

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Speaker 1: the point. There's no doubt if they let the tax

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Speaker 1: cuts expire because they were focused on worrying about the

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Speaker 1: debt or deficit, voters wouldn't like that. They'd be pissed

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Speaker 1: off that their taxes were raised. So, but voters are

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Speaker 1: never going to reward somebody for, hey, thank you for

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Speaker 1: not messing with the tax rates, because to them it's

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Speaker 1: not going to feel like a cut. In fact, thanks

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Speaker 1: to cost of living, they're going to assume things continue

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Speaker 1: to cost more and they're going to have less money

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Speaker 1: to play with. Now. I have no doubt Trump's going

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Speaker 1: to try to concoct some sort of rebate check scheme.

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Speaker 1: You know, maybe there's a baby bonus check that gets

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Speaker 1: sent to voters. He's going to want to send money

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Speaker 1: to voters with his name on it somehow right in

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Speaker 1: order to create the illusion that he did something for them.

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Speaker 1: But I don't know what that looks like, and I

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Speaker 1: think they're going to have a hard time concocting something.

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Speaker 1: And then the other big problem Republicans have is look

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Speaker 1: at already with the Medicaid cuts. Okay, I've been covering

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Speaker 1: Republicans trying to explain slowing the growth. Hey, we're not

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Speaker 1: cutting Medicaid, Medicare, social security. We're just slowing the growth

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Speaker 1: of Medicaid, Medicare, and social security. You know, to say

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Speaker 1: these aren't cuts, we're adding money. They just want to

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Speaker 1: add money at a faster rate. Guess what, when you're explaining,

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Speaker 1: you're losing. And when you're having to explain, no, it's

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Speaker 1: not a cut, it's slowing the rate of growth, you're

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Speaker 1: kind of like Kevin Bacon an animal house and going

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Speaker 1: all is calm, all remain calm, all is Well, you're

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Speaker 1: just going to get mode over and you're going to

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Speaker 1: get run over. That said, I don't think Democrats can

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Speaker 1: just sit back and expect to win right now. They've

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Speaker 1: got their own internal crisis brewing. The base is energized,

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Speaker 1: but they're angry. They're angry at Trump, but they're also

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Speaker 1: angry at their own parties leadership, how it handled Biden,

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Speaker 1: how they're not responding to Trump. I mean, my god,

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Speaker 1: look at all the mealy mouth ways. Schumer and Jeffries

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Speaker 1: are both struggling here on figuring out how to balance

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Speaker 1: not looking rabidly anti Trump and out of touch with

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Speaker 1: the middle and at the same time not looking like

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Speaker 1: they're willing to confront Trump. They're just showing some rhetorical

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Speaker 1: weakness here, and it's a box of their own making, right,

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Speaker 1: because they're part of an establishment leadership team that failed

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Speaker 1: the party. So I don't know if there's anything they

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Speaker 1: could say or do to sort of win back the

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Speaker 1: confidence of these voters that are frustrated. But you can

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Speaker 1: feel that they seem to be responding in ways that

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Speaker 1: they're trying desperately not to anger any part of their coalition.

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Speaker 1: So everything is sort of milk toasty, and I think

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Speaker 1: that that's not going to go overwell to the most energetic,

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Speaker 1: angry Democrats and if they don't give and that's the

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Speaker 1: problem the party's got to find. Democrats don't figure out

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Speaker 1: how to channel that energy, channel that anger. If they

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Speaker 1: don't give something voters to fight four, not just against,

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Speaker 1: then twenty twenty six could turn into an intra party meltdown.

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Speaker 1: We've seen this before. Actually, remember the Tea Party in

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Speaker 1: twenty ten. Republican leadership thought they could ride that wave

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Speaker 1: of anger and instead, though it wiped out the Republican

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Speaker 1: establishment and it led directly to Trump. That Tea Party

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Speaker 1: anger just completely eviscerated the establishment GOP. They're gone, they're dead,

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Speaker 1: they don't get work anymore in the Trump wing. So

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Speaker 1: they didn't channel it, it consumed them. And that same

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Speaker 1: thing could happen to the Democrats if they don't figure

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Speaker 1: out how to get ahead of the anger that is

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Speaker 1: brewing in their base. So here's the irony. By every

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Speaker 1: conventional measure, Trump is the bigger liability, but that doesn't

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Speaker 1: mean Democrats are guaranteed to benefit. They mishandle the Biden

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Speaker 1: legacy if they ignore the generational ideological divides and their

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Speaker 1: own coalition, If they act like voters will just automatically

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Speaker 1: reject Trump again, they could blow it. Because here's what

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Speaker 1: I believe, voters only look backward when they don't like

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Speaker 1: what they see ahead. If you're not offering them a

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Speaker 1: better future, they're going to punish whoever they feel is

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Speaker 1: responsible for the president for the president. So the race

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Speaker 1: is on not just between Democrats and Republicans, but between

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Speaker 1: two unpopular presidents to see who can hurt their party less.

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Speaker 1: I guess the stakes the twenty twenty six mid terms.

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Speaker 1: We shall see, all right. I have a few other

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Speaker 1: nuggets here I want to get to on the campaign

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Speaker 1: on the campaign front that I thought were notable, and

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Speaker 1: these are things that I've read in other places. I'm

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Speaker 1: doing my old aggregation style of what's caught my eye

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Speaker 1: in the last twenty five four hours. There's a fun

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Speaker 1: piece that I want to spend a little bit more

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Speaker 1: time on. But I think Nate Cone is onto something.

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Speaker 1: Nate con in The New York Times writes this did

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Speaker 1: Republicans blow a bigger opportunity in twenty twenty four? The

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Speaker 1: specific question he asked is should Republicans have won in

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Speaker 1: a landslide? It's an interesting because there's sort of two

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Speaker 1: ways to look at republicans success over the last ten years.

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Speaker 1: What if Trump wasn't their leader and what if they

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Speaker 1: still had somebody that was able to reorient the party

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Speaker 1: into this multi ethnic working class coalition. Could they actually

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Speaker 1: have a bigger majority. I do think you can look

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Speaker 1: and say Trump the individual has cost them. You know,

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Speaker 1: we can point to four or five Senate seats specifically

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Speaker 1: where Trump's intervention has cost them. There's at least one

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Speaker 1: in Arizona, all things, Kerry Lake, both Senate seats. I

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Speaker 1: think in Georgia you could put in that column for sure.

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Speaker 1: I think you could at least, you know, you could

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Speaker 1: possibly look to one of the Wisconsin to the one

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Speaker 1: Wisconsin Democratic seat, possibly look to Nevada. So there's at

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Speaker 1: least I think realistically five and maybe if you look

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Speaker 1: at the doctor Oz debacle against Fetterman six, So you

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Speaker 1: could realistically say there are six Democratic health sentences right

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Speaker 1: now that if not for Trump, they would have. So

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Speaker 1: that means that would put them almost at a filibuster

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Speaker 1: proof centate majority, but for Trump. So I get the

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Speaker 1: argument Nate is having. And it's sort of like there

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Speaker 1: are some Republican leaning voters who cannot stand Trump right,

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Speaker 1: don't like his character, and won't vote for him that

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Speaker 1: are moving towards the Democrats. And the question has always

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Speaker 1: been are they still sort of supportive of the ideas

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Speaker 1: Trump has. They just are so turned off by his

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Speaker 1: corruption and by his neediness and narcissism that they don't

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Speaker 1: vote for him, and they're going to snap back, And

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Speaker 1: this opportunity is here for an even bigger, a bigger, successful,

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Speaker 1: durable Republican coalition that looks a little bit more like

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Speaker 1: Reagan in the eighties rather than this polarized coalition that

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Speaker 1: Trumps built now. Anyway, It's an interesting argument because we've

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Speaker 1: been spending a lot of time looking at all the

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Speaker 1: little ways Democrats, if they could have done this, could

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Speaker 1: have done that, they could have beaten Trump in twenty four.

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Speaker 1: But is the better way to look at this if

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Speaker 1: actually is Trump the only reason why Democrats have come

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Speaker 1: close in twenty sixteen or twenty twenty four. Anyway, It's

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Speaker 1: just an interesting counterfactual and one one that I thought

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Speaker 1: was worth noting in euro Intelligence. One of the things

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Speaker 1: that I've been trying to tell people about the current

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Speaker 1: US political divide is that actually this is a global divide,

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Speaker 1: meaning the rural urban divide between red and blue in

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Speaker 1: America is essentially driving the politics and every democracy around

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Speaker 1: the world. Rural versus urban has been the divide in Poland,

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Speaker 1: and you will see it just played out and that,

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Speaker 1: you know, the sort of the Maga right adjacent movement

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Speaker 1: that is succeeding in Poland was built in rural Poland.

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Speaker 1: It's not like Warsaws is pretty happy with this movement

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Speaker 1: folks that live there. We've seen this in Turkey, where

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Speaker 1: it was Airdowan's political strength is in the rural parts

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Speaker 1: of Turkey, not in is Don Bull. In fact, that's

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Speaker 1: where he is. His chief political opposition is based in Istanbul. Venezuela,

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Speaker 1: formerly a democracy. It was the same right Ugo Chavez

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Speaker 1: essentially created his dictatorship starting in the rural parts in Mexico.

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Speaker 1: The populist movement is to the left, but it also

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Speaker 1: began in the rural parts of Mexico. The sort of

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Speaker 1: Amlo shine Bomb coalition is not as popular in the

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Speaker 1: more educated rural areas. The point is is that it's

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Speaker 1: election after election around the world. We're starting to see

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Speaker 1: the same divides here. You know, we think we're special

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Speaker 1: in America. In this case we are behaving just like

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Speaker 1: it breaks it in the UK in many ways started

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Speaker 1: outside of London, right the London intelligentsia, we're all against Brexit.

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Speaker 1: So this royal urban divide really is the global driver

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Speaker 1: right now that is rattling democracies around the world. By

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Speaker 1: the way, I mentioned Mexico in there, Mexico just just

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Speaker 1: did something that is only going to increase corruption in

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Speaker 1: that democracy. They just decided to mandate that all judicial

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Speaker 1: all judges, face election. I can't think of a worse

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Speaker 1: way to try to enact the rule of law. I mean,

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Speaker 1: when you politicize the rule of law. Just look what's

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Speaker 1: happening here in our country with what Donald Trump's doing

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Speaker 1: with this pardon business. It seems like every day he

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Speaker 1: pardons some other white collar criminal, he is essentially eviscerated

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Speaker 1: white collar crime in the attempt by anybody in the

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Speaker 1: federal government to prosecute anybody who commits so called white

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Speaker 1: collar crime, nonviolent crime, anything having to do with finances

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Speaker 1: or personal behavior. At this point, Donald Trump will pardon

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Speaker 1: that person. He's already talking about pardoning Diddy. And those

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Speaker 1: are some really uncomfortable anecdotes we're all hearing from that trial.

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Speaker 1: But the fact is, anybody that Donald Trump thinks is

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Speaker 1: being persecuted for their personal behavior or their financial behavior. Clearly,

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Speaker 1: he must see a bit of himself in there, and

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Speaker 1: he is now essentially changing our rule of law, changing

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Speaker 1: our law enforcement environment in order to not target those people.

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Speaker 1: We've seen the entire political corruption unions are getting wiped out.

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Speaker 1: Inspector generals are wiped out. He does not. He is,

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Speaker 1: and so that is and now you've got now a

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Speaker 1: country like Mexico is not even going to pretend that

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Speaker 1: there's a rule of law doing this electing judges. Go

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Speaker 1: read Alexander Hamilton and federalists. It's seventy three. It's either

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Speaker 1: federal seventy three or seventy eight. My apologies for not

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Speaker 1: having it at hand, but he makes an argument against

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Speaker 1: the election, the election of judges. Politicize this thing is

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Speaker 1: a total mess in Wisconsin with what we see with

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Speaker 1: the election of the Supreme Court. That is no way

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Speaker 1: the rule of law can't be at the ballot box.

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Speaker 1: It just can't be. That is a gigantic mistake. And

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Speaker 1: we already have a lot of things we're worried about

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Speaker 1: with Mexico's slip sliding away from democracy. But when you

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Speaker 1: put judicial elections in the hands of political parties, you

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Speaker 1: increase the likelihood of an authoritarian takeover of the legal system,

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Speaker 1: and that is I think quite ugly. A few more,

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Speaker 1: there's a few quotes this week that I just want

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Speaker 1: to highlight in my little twenty twenty six notebook that

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Speaker 1: I think are just fascinating. Here's my favorite line from

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Speaker 1: John Cornan this week. John Cornyn in the messy Texas

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Speaker 1: Senate primary against the Attorney General Ken Paxton, who himself

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Speaker 1: faced impeachment proceedings and beat them back. Against a Republican

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Speaker 1: controlled House and Senate in Texas. Anyway, John Corny talked

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Speaker 1: about his campaign. He says, this is going to be

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Speaker 1: a test of whether character still matters. Just uttering that sentence,

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Speaker 1: I think is a reminder why John Cornan is not

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Speaker 1: going to win. And I don't like betting against John Cornyn.

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Speaker 1: I think he's been I think he's a savvy politician.

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Speaker 1: I think he's a smart legislator. I think he's I

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Speaker 1: would argue he should be one of the hundred people

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Speaker 1: you would want in the United States Senate. You don't

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Speaker 1: have to agree with him all the time, but he

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Speaker 1: seems thoughtful, he seems to take the job seriously all

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Speaker 1: of those things, and I think he represents the mainstream

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Speaker 1: of Texas about as well as you can come up with. Right. Collectively,

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Speaker 1: Texas is clearly center, right John Cornyn, I think represents

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Speaker 1: that quite well. But here's something and I think we

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Speaker 1: all unfortunately have learned over the last decade. Character doesn't

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Speaker 1: matter to the voters. Results matter to the voters. Feelings, vibes,

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Speaker 1: whatever you want to call it. A character doesn't and

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Speaker 1: we've seen it. How much more evidence we have to see?

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Speaker 1: You know, we'd like politicians to be of high character,

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Speaker 1: but we're not going to vote on that issue. It's

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Speaker 1: a character for our politicians, right. We will tell a

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Speaker 1: polster we care about character, but are we voting on it.

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Speaker 1: It's like the same people that tell the posters they

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Speaker 1: care about the debt, or they tell posters they care

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Speaker 1: about campaign finds their form. I worry that character is

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Speaker 1: now one of these dead rail issues that unless you

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Speaker 1: are just abusive, physically abusive, and even that right, look

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Speaker 1: at Andrew Cuomo, accusations of a lot of uncomfortable behavior there,

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Speaker 1: and yet he may become the next mayor of New

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Speaker 1: York City. So I don't know if the Texas Senate race.

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Speaker 1: I guess if Cornyn wins. It means there is a

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Speaker 1: chance that character can still count an election. But I

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Speaker 1: will just say the fact that he uttered the quote

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Speaker 1: of a feeling that quote could be on an epitaph.

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Speaker 1: We shall see. One other quote that a lot of

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Speaker 1: people missed was last week Joe Biden took a few

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Speaker 1: questions after he had a speech that he gave in Delaware.

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Speaker 1: This was to honor he was acknowledging the death of

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Speaker 1: an anniversary of the death of his son, and he

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Speaker 1: took questions and he was asked whether he should have

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Speaker 1: run for re election, and he goes, well, he was

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Speaker 1: referring to the various Democrats who've questioned whether he should

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00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:37,520
Speaker 1: have run now, And his answer was why didn't they

430
00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:41,719
Speaker 1: run against me then? Because I'd have beaten them. So

431
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:44,919
Speaker 1: that's Joe Biden's mental state right now. He does not

432
00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:47,639
Speaker 1: buy into the premise that he was the problem. He

433
00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:51,320
Speaker 1: does not accept the premise that him getting off the

434
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:54,680
Speaker 1: ticket was a benefit to the party. He clearly believes

435
00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:57,080
Speaker 1: had he stayed on the ticket, and certainly people around

436
00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:01,280
Speaker 1: him have clearly believed this. He's a bit delusional about this,

437
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:04,840
Speaker 1: But he was surrounded by advisers that were only telling

438
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:07,439
Speaker 1: him things he wanted to hear, or perhaps telling him

439
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:10,760
Speaker 1: things that those advisors wish were true. In either case,

440
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:13,240
Speaker 1: let's just say that quote's doing a lot of work.

441
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:16,320
Speaker 1: There's anger, defiance, and denial all wrapped up into that

442
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:19,000
Speaker 1: one quote. And then finally, I want to highlight this

443
00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:21,480
Speaker 1: quote that came from Tim Walls in South Carolina and

444
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:24,040
Speaker 1: his trip down there. He asked this question, maybe it's

445
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:29,560
Speaker 1: time for us to be a little meaner. Huh. All

446
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:34,240
Speaker 1: I'll say, is does mean fit Tim Walls. I get

447
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:36,520
Speaker 1: what he's saying. And this gets to what Steve Klubec,

448
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:40,400
Speaker 1: the candidate for California governor, told me in a podcast recently,

449
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:44,840
Speaker 1: is that the Democrats need a channel, a little bit

450
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:49,040
Speaker 1: of their little bit more Trump. You know, you know,

451
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:51,280
Speaker 1: just when you see something, say something, but I kind

452
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:54,879
Speaker 1: of think meaner. Isn't it being more demeaning to people?

453
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:59,760
Speaker 1: You know? This is I think that this is the

454
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:04,480
Speaker 1: thing that Democrats ought to be careful of if they

455
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:07,080
Speaker 1: go down the if you can't beat them, join them mindset.

456
00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:11,880
Speaker 1: When it comes to dealing with Trump. I think there

457
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:14,280
Speaker 1: are voters, and I just describe them these center right

458
00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:18,120
Speaker 1: voters who actually care about character, care about truth, care

459
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:23,639
Speaker 1: about integrity and office who are voting for Democrats that

460
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:26,679
Speaker 1: perhaps they don't agree with on policy because they stand

461
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:29,240
Speaker 1: for higher character, they stand for something a little bit different.

462
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:35,040
Speaker 1: If you start presenting yourself basically with the same low

463
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:42,800
Speaker 1: character and sort of nonchalance towards white collar crime and

464
00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:49,840
Speaker 1: put transactionalness transactional nature, that essentially sells Pardons right, and

465
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 1: you essentially are putting that up, you know, a D

466
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:57,479
Speaker 1: version versus an our version. I don't think you're going

467
00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:00,560
Speaker 1: to benefit on the D side because I think, you know,

468
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:04,320
Speaker 1: Democrats have asked. One of these arguments I've made is

469
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 1: that you know, why do I Why am I tougher

470
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:08,520
Speaker 1: on Democrats sometimes and I am on Trump? Well, the

471
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:14,880
Speaker 1: Democrats ask are proclaimed to stand on higher ground. They

472
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:17,240
Speaker 1: want to be held accountable, they want to be held

473
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:21,359
Speaker 1: to a higher standard. And when they don't, when they

474
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:24,720
Speaker 1: don't stand up for that higher standard that they're demanding

475
00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:27,880
Speaker 1: of Trump and they're demanding of Republicans, well you know,

476
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:30,160
Speaker 1: they don't like it when we point out that hypocrisy.

477
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:33,879
Speaker 1: And that's the thing. If they don't aspire to stay

478
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:36,800
Speaker 1: being that party, I actually think they're going to lose

479
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:38,880
Speaker 1: a chunk of voters that have kept them probably more

480
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 1: competitive in the Trump era than, as my friend Nate

481
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:44,760
Speaker 1: Conan the Times is arguing, then perhaps they should have been.

482
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,800
Speaker 1: So anyway, that was I just thought I would empty

483
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:53,680
Speaker 1: my sort of notebook of stuff that caught my eye

484
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 1: over the last few days that fall into sort of

485
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,440
Speaker 1: my little purview, my worldview of politics. It's in twenty

486
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:03,640
Speaker 1: twenty six in particular, and as well as twenty twenty eight.

487
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:07,440
Speaker 1: And so with that, I'll sneak at a break and

488
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:16,400
Speaker 1: when we come back, my conversation with Jane postin Hey

489
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:20,960
Speaker 1: joining me now is somebody I've long admired when as

490
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:22,960
Speaker 1: a New York Times contributor, but she's now a daily

491
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:30,200
Speaker 1: podcast podcaster for the Crooked Media folks, pod Save America, Folks.

492
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:32,920
Speaker 1: It's called What a Day. It's Jane Couston. Jane, good

493
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 1: to see it.

494
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:35,600
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me. It's good to

495
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:36,600
Speaker 2: see you as well.

496
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:41,239
Speaker 1: So when we last, you know you were tell me

497
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 1: about your media, your professional media resume these days, because

498
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:49,679
Speaker 1: we're all look, as I joke, I put a I

499
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:51,359
Speaker 1: don't like to bet roulette, but if I ever get

500
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:53,639
Speaker 1: forced to bet Roulette. I always put a chip on

501
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 1: four corners right to increase the amount of opportunities I

502
00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 1: have for a number to hit. And I feel like

503
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 1: that's the world of journal now that everybody in this

504
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:06,160
Speaker 1: space is doing like three or four jobs because they're

505
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:09,040
Speaker 1: not sure which one's going to become the job right,

506
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:12,359
Speaker 1: which one's going to become the true anchor of their life.

507
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:15,960
Speaker 1: Do you are you living? Are you a living embodiment

508
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:16,400
Speaker 1: of this?

509
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:19,719
Speaker 2: I am. I am less so than I was previously

510
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:22,320
Speaker 2: now like this is this is what I do, This

511
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:24,680
Speaker 2: is what I do, This is what you do, aw

512
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:28,159
Speaker 2: York Times contributor. But because especially because I you know,

513
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:30,040
Speaker 2: I come into the office. I am speaking to you

514
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:32,680
Speaker 2: from the beautiful crooked Media office in Los Angeles and

515
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:36,400
Speaker 2: West Hollywood, near where I live, and so I actually

516
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 2: it's probably the most day to day, normal job type

517
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:46,800
Speaker 2: job I've had since before the pandemic probably, So that's

518
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:49,080
Speaker 2: been nice. That's been nice. So I am the host.

519
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:50,959
Speaker 1: Very set scheduled, I mean, yeah, because that's the thing

520
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 1: people ask me, how do you like this world? I said, well,

521
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 1: I was a very scheduled person. Now I have a

522
00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 1: little bit more control of that schedule. And sometimes that's anxiety.

523
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:02,520
Speaker 2: Yes, I do like the fact that in general, like

524
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:06,720
Speaker 2: my schedule's pretty set because as we were talking about,

525
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 2: I'm on Pacific time. There are a couple of things

526
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 2: where we move. We can move stuff around in a

527
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 2: way that I don't think would be as easy to

528
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:16,520
Speaker 2: do if we were on the East coast. But yeah,

529
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:18,320
Speaker 2: it's pretty set. I'm here.

530
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:20,400
Speaker 1: It's just your first time living on West coast.

531
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:22,000
Speaker 2: It is my first time living on them.

532
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:26,120
Speaker 1: So you've been mostly in essentrally mostly you know, I grew.

533
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 2: Up in Ohio, lived in Ohio, Michigan, Missouri, and then

534
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 2: moved to d C. Thirteen years in DC, and then

535
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 2: I moved to Utah, so we got what you've done

536
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:39,600
Speaker 2: every time though, pretty much every time zone. Big fan.

537
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 2: By the way, if we're talking time zones, Mountain highly underrated.

538
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 1: I completely agree. I lived for a brief period in Boulder, Colorado,

539
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:53,520
Speaker 1: during my period in between college and life, and there

540
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:55,400
Speaker 1: is no better sports.

541
00:29:55,800 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 2: It's perfect, it's absolutely perfect, messific time we do have because.

542
00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:03,560
Speaker 1: Too early, too early, that nine am, that nine nine

543
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:04,200
Speaker 1: kick is.

544
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 2: Football, that has been that's the one thing where that is.

545
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:10,720
Speaker 1: You're a Michigan fan, Yeah, a Michican fan. So they're

546
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 1: always kickoff. It's always a big nine am kickoff.

547
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:17,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's always a noon kick and that that is

548
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 2: that's early ten am though, ten am, I can do.

549
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 1: You've had a cup of coffee. You probably already had

550
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 1: a little notch. Maybe you've read you read in on

551
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:27,920
Speaker 1: the day.

552
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know what's going on. Yeah, but I do

553
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 2: think it is nice that I can have the entire

554
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:39,440
Speaker 2: emotional experience of a college football game and have it

555
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 2: be over by twelve thirty. And then I do get

556
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 2: the you know, I obviously.

557
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 1: You know a and the late night game, and the

558
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:49,560
Speaker 1: late night games are done by eight thirty nine. You

559
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:51,240
Speaker 1: can go out for a late dinner.

560
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:54,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I could watch you know, I watched that Cal

561
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:57,840
Speaker 2: Miami game that ended very contusingly.

562
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,880
Speaker 1: I probably was the only East Coast person that stayed.

563
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:05,480
Speaker 2: That was there's a real you know, even though they

564
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:07,560
Speaker 2: have you know, I was saying, rip to the PAC twelve,

565
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 2: but you can't. You can't get rid of the PAC

566
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:12,440
Speaker 2: twelve after dark energy, Like there's just something that happens

567
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 2: if you're playing, you know, And I think that that's

568
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:16,719
Speaker 2: you know, one of my favorite things about college football

569
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:19,640
Speaker 2: is watching a game, especially a night game, being able

570
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 2: to watch that at six pm my time. One of

571
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 2: my favorite college football games of this past year was

572
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:29,160
Speaker 2: Kansas State at b Yuh about.

573
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 1: Was the two Hail Mary's.

574
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 2: It felt like I have never seen I joked that

575
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:40,040
Speaker 2: it was like Kansas State's quarterback had just descended into

576
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 2: hell for about four and a half minutes, like everything

577
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:46,840
Speaker 2: that could possibly go wrong if I remember correctly, there

578
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 2: was a pick six, then he like a fumble six,

579
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:53,760
Speaker 2: then something else terrible happened, and it was like the

580
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:56,720
Speaker 2: fact that this uh, Kansas State's quarterback was actually pretty

581
00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:58,880
Speaker 2: good kept going onto the field. I was like, that's

582
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,600
Speaker 2: why you're a gamer, and I am not, because I

583
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 2: would have just been like, there's something wrong.

584
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 1: Oh, that Kansas State quarterback was good enough that they

585
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:08,440
Speaker 1: asked Will Howard to go into the transfer port.

586
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 2: Yes, yes they did. And it's just like so, it's

587
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 2: it's nice to be able to get to see moments

588
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:17,240
Speaker 2: like that and have it still be like seven pm,

589
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 2: eight pm my time.

590
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 1: I was not going to bring up college football until

591
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:26,719
Speaker 1: til later, but I am curious, does have you have

592
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:29,480
Speaker 1: you do you feel like you yet have a feeling

593
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 1: about whether college football has hurt itself collectively by essentially

594
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 1: destroying the you know, with the with the Big Ten

595
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:39,640
Speaker 1: and SEC destroying the Pac twelve.

596
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 2: I think that I'm of two minds. I think that

597
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 2: any prediction people make about football and saying like this

598
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:50,400
Speaker 2: will happen, this is going to destroy the sport. I

599
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:53,000
Speaker 2: don't think they understand how durable the sport can be

600
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:56,040
Speaker 2: and how people feel about the sport. You and I

601
00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:57,440
Speaker 2: are both college football lovers.

602
00:32:57,680 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 1: I going to keep it up like it doesn't. I

603
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 1: know that the rules are rigged. I now know the

604
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:03,920
Speaker 1: rules are going to be rigged against any teams not

605
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:06,520
Speaker 1: in the SEC, in the Big Ten, And yet I'm

606
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:08,400
Speaker 1: still going to right and.

607
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:10,440
Speaker 2: It's going to be you know, the ran the playoff,

608
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 2: and that's going to get weird. I mean, the playoff

609
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 2: itself is weird. But I think that there's some the

610
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 2: inherently chaotic energy of college football cannot be confined or

611
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 2: you know, in any way. It will always be chaos

612
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 2: in a truly wonderful way. And I think that Yet

613
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 2: I am the thing I am actually concerned about in

614
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:35,200
Speaker 2: terms of football, not how I feel about it, about

615
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 2: how the players feel about it is that by making

616
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:43,880
Speaker 2: these super conferences where you know, you have the Big

617
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 2: Ten now contains teams at you know, the University of Washington,

618
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:52,600
Speaker 2: Oregon USC. This is great for me personally. Michigan's coming

619
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:55,400
Speaker 2: to play at USC this season, and I'm like, great,

620
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:59,320
Speaker 2: I could. That is a twenty twenty five minute drive

621
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 2: on like a good That's like an easy trip for me.

622
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:03,400
Speaker 2: It kind of reminds me of when I would go

623
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:06,160
Speaker 2: when I lived in DC and Maryland was in the

624
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:06,520
Speaker 2: Big Ten.

625
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 1: Maryland is in the.

626
00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:08,960
Speaker 2: Big Ten and I could take the Metro and go

627
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:11,400
Speaker 2: watch Michigan beat the shit out of Maryland and like

628
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:14,560
Speaker 2: take the metro home. It was great. But from a

629
00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:17,399
Speaker 2: player perspective, and I would say that this is also

630
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:20,160
Speaker 2: like I am a fan of a school with money.

631
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 2: I'm a fan of a school with a lot of money,

632
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:26,799
Speaker 2: so in the big leagues and yeah, they like they

633
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:32,160
Speaker 2: have money, and so them taking players, you know, especially football, basketball,

634
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:34,399
Speaker 2: you know they are going to be able to take

635
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:38,400
Speaker 2: all of those grad assistants who help, you know, monitor testing,

636
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 2: all of the stuff that can make being a college

637
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:43,880
Speaker 2: athlete possible. They're going to be able to do that

638
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:46,800
Speaker 2: pretty much from anywhere but there are a lot of schools,

639
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:51,400
Speaker 2: smaller schools that are now in environments where one like

640
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:55,160
Speaker 2: most athletic programs lose money. They just do like most

641
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:58,240
Speaker 2: college football team. It's not like having a college football

642
00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 2: team is way very expensive and usually not profitable. And

643
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:05,600
Speaker 2: so you are then asking schools that might be smaller

644
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 2: might have different financial obligations. They're like, oh, also, you

645
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:14,360
Speaker 2: need to fly the women's field hockey team to Eugene

646
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:18,520
Speaker 2: and Beck on a Tuesday. Also they all have finals.

647
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:20,520
Speaker 2: Because I are college students, this is a real thing,

648
00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:24,160
Speaker 2: and like, are you gonna administer them those finals while

649
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:26,719
Speaker 2: they're out there? Are they going to do it over here?

650
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:30,160
Speaker 2: Like it's that I am concerned for the players. I

651
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:32,520
Speaker 2: am not concerned for me and how I feel about

652
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:36,680
Speaker 2: college football. Like I've now been through a lot of

653
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:39,239
Speaker 2: conference realignments, Like you know, I remember being annoyed when

654
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:41,920
Speaker 2: Nebraska joined the Big Ten and being like, come on,

655
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:43,840
Speaker 2: and now it's like it's a thing. I'm used to it.

656
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:47,200
Speaker 1: But I think I have expect us to have the

657
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:49,840
Speaker 1: realignment by geography, like eventually the Big Ten is going

658
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:52,880
Speaker 1: to get so big, Hey, We're going to have divisions

659
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:55,160
Speaker 1: based on geography so that we be a Western division

660
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 1: a Southern division, like you see that that's probable.

661
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 2: I mean it kind of has to happen in a

662
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:03,359
Speaker 2: way because it's just at a certain point, like for what.

663
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:06,960
Speaker 1: You're just describing, so that you play a majority of

664
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:10,400
Speaker 1: the years, so like you can get geographically close to

665
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:11,399
Speaker 1: the teams you.

666
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:14,719
Speaker 2: Can have, you know, what we have long had, You

667
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 2: could have I mean, obviously this wouldn't be non conference,

668
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:20,520
Speaker 2: but you could have those early non conference matchups, which

669
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 2: notably certain SEC establishments try to avoid. And but like

670
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:28,080
Speaker 2: you know, Michigan's going to play has a i think

671
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:32,800
Speaker 2: a home and home with Oklahoma this year, and you

672
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:36,080
Speaker 2: know that'll be fun to giant schools that I don't

673
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:41,120
Speaker 2: think I've ever seen Michigan play Oklahoma, so like, yeah, exactly,

674
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:43,239
Speaker 2: so you know, I think that that'll be interesting. But

675
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 2: it is. It is funny how we are just kind

676
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:51,440
Speaker 2: of like slowly working ourselves backwards towards regional conferences. And

677
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:56,799
Speaker 2: like the challenge though is four teams that are you know,

678
00:36:56,840 --> 00:37:00,360
Speaker 2: those group of five teams, those teams that are not

679
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:03,279
Speaker 2: part of the Big Ten or the SEC. You know,

680
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:06,400
Speaker 2: if you are like you know, we're going to have

681
00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:10,280
Speaker 2: this debate three billion times for the next whatever amount

682
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:14,480
Speaker 2: of time. But if you're an undefeated ACC team, but

683
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 2: you're undefeated in the ACC and all the other Big

684
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 2: ten and SEC are like what even is that? Like,

685
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 2: you know, are we just going to have the Florida

686
00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:27,720
Speaker 2: State issue again? Are we just going to keep having

687
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:32,240
Speaker 2: teams where if they played in a different conference, everyone

688
00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 2: would be like, oh my god, they're fourteen oe old.

689
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:36,560
Speaker 1: We've never had the Florida State issue because Florida State

690
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:39,239
Speaker 1: was not allowed to compete. So I would say, if

691
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:42,319
Speaker 1: you get, if you're able to actually get this to do.

692
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:45,440
Speaker 1: Here's the thing. There is no actual proof yet that

693
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:48,440
Speaker 1: somehow the ACC and the Big twelve are not as

694
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:51,920
Speaker 1: competitive the other two. There's just a presumption by the

695
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:54,919
Speaker 1: arrogance of Greg Sanke to believe this, who I think

696
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:56,880
Speaker 1: singularly is destroying college football.

697
00:37:57,120 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a expand.

698
00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:03,480
Speaker 1: He doesn't want to expand the fan base like he

699
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:06,439
Speaker 1: actually wants to narrow them. This is my beef. Look,

700
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:09,080
Speaker 1: God bless him that they're that it's the dominant thing,

701
00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:11,680
Speaker 1: But he has no interest in I like the fact

702
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 1: that Spokane has a football following. I like the fact

703
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:18,240
Speaker 1: that there are more that's what made college football different

704
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:20,760
Speaker 1: from the NFL. It has fan bases in two hundred

705
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:25,440
Speaker 1: and fifty media markets, not just thirty two. And it

706
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:29,560
Speaker 1: is it is actually an asset to the SEC that

707
00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:33,320
Speaker 1: Spokane and Washington State exists as far as he's concerned.

708
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:35,440
Speaker 1: It is not like he wants to create Premier League

709
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:38,319
Speaker 1: two and you're just at that point, you're creating just

710
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:43,239
Speaker 1: a lesser, a less good version of the NFL. And

711
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:44,200
Speaker 1: we have an.

712
00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:47,080
Speaker 2: NFL, Yeah, we do. And I think also like the

713
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 2: way in which, especially because conference dominance isn't a given,

714
00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:57,240
Speaker 2: I was struckted by comments. I was struck by comments

715
00:38:57,280 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 2: made by Alabama's head coach, now Calin de Boor, who

716
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:02,120
Speaker 2: was talking about like, oh, you know, well, let's see

717
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:03,719
Speaker 2: how some of these other teams would have done with

718
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:06,000
Speaker 2: our schedule last year. And I'm like, oh, I probably

719
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:08,839
Speaker 2: wouldn't have lost. It probably wouldn't have lost to Vanderbilt.

720
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:11,319
Speaker 2: But like, there is this an idea that and I

721
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:13,279
Speaker 2: think that this is this is something that's happened within

722
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:16,799
Speaker 2: the SEC. They have seen turnover before. They like I

723
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:21,360
Speaker 2: remember when Alabama lost to the University of Louisiana Lafayette.

724
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:24,520
Speaker 2: I remember when that happened. That was like Nick Saban's

725
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:28,359
Speaker 2: first season. I know, like there's turnover, there's churn. That's

726
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:31,640
Speaker 2: the way it's supposed to be. Like you can have them,

727
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:34,239
Speaker 2: you know, you can have a usc that is unstoppable

728
00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:36,640
Speaker 2: in two thousand and five, two thousand and six and

729
00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:38,800
Speaker 2: now is like you know, they've been kind of wandering

730
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:40,000
Speaker 2: in the desert for twenty years.

731
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:43,080
Speaker 1: So well, that's the that was the basis of this question,

732
00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:47,000
Speaker 1: and that's what I'm concerned about. If if the energy

733
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:50,600
Speaker 1: of college football is basically the Midwest and South, even

734
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:54,880
Speaker 1: though there are teams living and breathing on the on

735
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:56,919
Speaker 1: the Pacific coach of the United States.

736
00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:59,600
Speaker 2: We respect the polouse in this household, like it's very

737
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:00,120
Speaker 2: it's very.

738
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:03,400
Speaker 1: But that's the concern I have is that the further

739
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:07,759
Speaker 1: away college football retreats from the West Coast, that it

740
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:11,319
Speaker 1: becomes self fulfilling, and that eventually college football will just

741
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:14,760
Speaker 1: be less popular in America's most populous state, which seems

742
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:18,439
Speaker 1: like a very bad idea if I were the czar

743
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:20,000
Speaker 1: of college football.

744
00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:22,319
Speaker 2: Right, I think that's that's a point of emphasis that

745
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:25,600
Speaker 2: needs to be made because I think that there is

746
00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:29,319
Speaker 2: a real concern that how because I think you know,

747
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:33,839
Speaker 2: college football is made over time, it's created every single year,

748
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:36,720
Speaker 2: and it's created by recruiting. And when you look at

749
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:40,000
Speaker 2: where kids are coming out of like you know, your

750
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:43,440
Speaker 2: top thirty, top forty recruits who are going to the

751
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:47,560
Speaker 2: biggest programs, they are coming in general from the South,

752
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:49,680
Speaker 2: They're coming in journal from the South. And you know

753
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:51,920
Speaker 2: you used to and I think you still do. Like

754
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:55,400
Speaker 2: California still has some powerhouse football high schools modern day

755
00:40:55,480 --> 00:41:00,040
Speaker 2: is probably the best example. But if that stops and

756
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:05,080
Speaker 2: you stop having reasons for kids to come to USC

757
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:09,520
Speaker 2: or go to you know, San Diego State or something

758
00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:11,879
Speaker 2: like that, Like I want to see California West Coast

759
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:15,160
Speaker 2: schools be super competitive. And you know that's why I'm like,

760
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:17,719
Speaker 2: I want UCLA to be really good. I think that's

761
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:21,360
Speaker 2: fun when UCLA is good for one thing there, Like UCLA,

762
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:25,399
Speaker 2: what was that like five or six years ago their

763
00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:27,719
Speaker 2: quarterback who then sadly I believe, got drafted by the

764
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:29,120
Speaker 2: Giants and then the.

765
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:33,560
Speaker 1: Ether Jay Josh Josh Rosen.

766
00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:36,160
Speaker 2: Yes, he ran a fake spike and it was the

767
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:37,960
Speaker 2: greatest play I'd ever seen, And I was like that's

768
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:40,960
Speaker 2: the funniest thing. It was a massive comeback victory and

769
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:43,040
Speaker 2: he ran a fake spike, which is the kind of thing.

770
00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:45,279
Speaker 2: That's another thing I love about college football is that

771
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:50,000
Speaker 2: people will try things that in the NFL you would see, Wow.

772
00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:53,240
Speaker 1: You know how innovation works in football? It does literally

773
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:57,200
Speaker 1: bottom it's the high school coaches innovate, the college coaches

774
00:41:57,560 --> 00:42:00,520
Speaker 1: copy it and hire these high school innovators, and then

775
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:05,799
Speaker 1: the NFL reluctantly goes ahead and really, right, all right,

776
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:09,440
Speaker 1: we'll run the spread offense because you know, everybody knows

777
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:10,000
Speaker 1: how to run it.

778
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:12,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, the Dolphins will use spread to beat the Patriots

779
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:15,600
Speaker 2: during Monday Night football, and everyone's like, oh my god,

780
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:16,400
Speaker 2: and they're.

781
00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:17,560
Speaker 1: Like they come up with that idea.

782
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:20,200
Speaker 2: Really, they've been doing this in college for years. And

783
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:22,200
Speaker 2: then there's always like, you know, a couple of schools,

784
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:24,400
Speaker 2: schools probably most people haven't heard of. It's always like

785
00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:26,840
Speaker 2: Colorado School of Mines or something like that, where it's like,

786
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:29,880
Speaker 2: we don't punt, we were ever punt right, right, And

787
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:32,360
Speaker 2: it's just like I love that kind of innovation, but like,

788
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:36,720
Speaker 2: I want there to be regional and national college football,

789
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:38,800
Speaker 2: and I think, well, something that also I mean, you

790
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:41,440
Speaker 2: have to talk about how television networks plan into this,

791
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:43,279
Speaker 2: how the deals with.

792
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:46,600
Speaker 1: Fox and ESPN are controlling college football. The two of

793
00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:49,160
Speaker 1: them have all this control, and the irony is I

794
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:52,319
Speaker 1: think we both look, especially Fox. I don't know about

795
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:54,640
Speaker 1: the future of Fox. You've got the whole Murdock situation

796
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:56,960
Speaker 1: that at any point is going to become an issue,

797
00:42:57,160 --> 00:42:58,879
Speaker 1: and I just don't know. We're going to find out

798
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:01,600
Speaker 1: during win the NFL side of its media deal, but

799
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:04,200
Speaker 1: that's going to be an interesting It's going to be

800
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:06,920
Speaker 1: an interesting moment for the Big ten because how much,

801
00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 1: how how deep really are Fox's pockets compared to Disney,

802
00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:14,880
Speaker 1: And then what happens when Amazon. I mean, I remember

803
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:17,040
Speaker 1: talking with somebody about the PAC twelve, the deal the

804
00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:20,279
Speaker 1: PAC twelve turned down when Oregon and Washington, and I

805
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:22,840
Speaker 1: can't remember the order of events if it was Oregon

806
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:25,600
Speaker 1: was into it and Washington said no, or vice versa,

807
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:27,319
Speaker 1: but they were sort of the two lynchpins of it.

808
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:31,160
Speaker 1: And you know, there were some executives that looked at

809
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:33,400
Speaker 1: it and said, you know, in like year three of

810
00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:35,239
Speaker 1: that deal, the PAC twelve was going to end up

811
00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:38,920
Speaker 1: with more money than the ACC and competitive with the

812
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:41,600
Speaker 1: SEC and the Big Ten just the way Apple was

813
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:44,440
Speaker 1: financing that, and that seems to be where this is going.

814
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:47,720
Speaker 1: But you know that's going to probably be another moment

815
00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:49,160
Speaker 1: where there's potential shake up.

816
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:51,880
Speaker 2: Yeah no, And you know you've seen this a little

817
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:55,279
Speaker 2: bit and it's challenging again because this could be a

818
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:57,319
Speaker 2: moment in which we think this would be a great

819
00:43:57,320 --> 00:43:59,520
Speaker 2: idea and that comes in five years and everybody's like,

820
00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:01,759
Speaker 2: what what were you thinking with Apple? Because I keep,

821
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:04,000
Speaker 2: I mean, I feel this way about Peacock and the

822
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:06,279
Speaker 2: way that there are some specific Big Ten games that

823
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:08,600
Speaker 2: you can now only watch on Peacock and everyone gets

824
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:09,759
Speaker 2: met every single time.

825
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:12,440
Speaker 1: Well, and it's always the Michigan Illinois game. It's a

826
00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:15,399
Speaker 1: game that only you care about. Well, yes, that they

827
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:18,400
Speaker 1: really don't want to put on regular NBC. Yes, but

828
00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:20,799
Speaker 1: still my friends in Illinois. Yet who knows, maybe they'll

829
00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:23,440
Speaker 1: be more competitive this coming here, but it's always like

830
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:26,920
Speaker 1: they force a big brand name to play a lesser

831
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:27,879
Speaker 1: brand name. Right.

832
00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:31,520
Speaker 2: But it's interesting also because Fox, I mean thinking about

833
00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:35,239
Speaker 2: brand names, they have been so focused on building up

834
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:38,160
Speaker 2: that noon game. They're you know, big Noon Saturday or

835
00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:42,359
Speaker 2: something like that. But it is interesting to me, and

836
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:45,280
Speaker 2: I think that this kind of gets to how Fox

837
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:48,759
Speaker 2: is trying to play this the sports stuff and their

838
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:52,200
Speaker 2: other work because Big Noon Saturday. One of the things

839
00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:56,839
Speaker 2: that happens is that Clay Travis hosts a show that

840
00:44:57,200 --> 00:45:01,480
Speaker 2: I'm assuming is observed by people. And it's interesting how

841
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:03,960
Speaker 2: they try to blend that, like I, you know, I

842
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:08,959
Speaker 2: happen to quite like Joel Klatt, Gus Johnson, even though

843
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:11,600
Speaker 2: every you know, they do every Michigan Ohio State game

844
00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:13,520
Speaker 2: they basically will do if it's like a big game,

845
00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:16,040
Speaker 2: they will do. They get it, and they will get

846
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:18,840
Speaker 2: the numbers. They will get the numbers every time. Because

847
00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:20,960
Speaker 2: Michigan is a draw. It just is. It's the same

848
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:22,839
Speaker 2: you know, Texas is a draw. Higo State does a draw.

849
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:25,240
Speaker 2: Like some of these schools, they're just draws. It just happens.

850
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:29,120
Speaker 2: So one, it's interesting how they try to bring in

851
00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:31,560
Speaker 2: some of their like you know, Clay Travis kind of

852
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:34,160
Speaker 2: rides that line because he's you know, the you know,

853
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:37,279
Speaker 2: his radio show is he's replacing Rush Limbaugh. But then

854
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:40,880
Speaker 2: he's also started out doing sports, started out doing you know,

855
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:45,360
Speaker 2: OutKick or whatever. But I also am curious for Fox,

856
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:48,760
Speaker 2: are they you know, because they'll put out their numbers

857
00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:50,719
Speaker 2: every week and they're always like, you know, we got

858
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:53,759
Speaker 2: seventeen million people to watch this Ohio you know, this

859
00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:59,280
Speaker 2: Ohio State hypothetical Texas game. We got eighteen million people

860
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:01,560
Speaker 2: to watch Michigan play Ohio State, because of course you did.

861
00:46:01,640 --> 00:46:04,959
Speaker 2: But again, did you get that because it's Michigan Ohio

862
00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:06,680
Speaker 2: State or did Fox have anything to do with it

863
00:46:06,719 --> 00:46:08,880
Speaker 2: at all? So it is interesting because I would be

864
00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:11,440
Speaker 2: curious to look at what does it look like when

865
00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:15,400
Speaker 2: Fox needs to build up, you know, when it can't

866
00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:17,120
Speaker 2: just rely on the fact that you've got this big

867
00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:19,799
Speaker 2: game when it you know, if Fox is doing because

868
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:25,680
Speaker 2: I've actually watched some pretty solid, like Nebraska Indiana games,

869
00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:28,840
Speaker 2: because you know, Nebraska's trying to figure it out. Indiana

870
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:31,359
Speaker 2: has actually been quite competitive, Illinois was this past year

871
00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:33,160
Speaker 2: as well, And so I'm just interested to see what

872
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:36,160
Speaker 2: that looks like because so much of this, like it

873
00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:41,200
Speaker 2: seems so obvious to put college football on television and

874
00:46:41,239 --> 00:46:43,920
Speaker 2: to make it make money, like it feels to me

875
00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:46,400
Speaker 2: like it should be the easiest thing in the universe.

876
00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:48,600
Speaker 2: And yet every year.

877
00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:51,520
Speaker 1: Well this goes too Now, this goes to the lack

878
00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:55,000
Speaker 1: of again where and I actually think this is a

879
00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:58,080
Speaker 1: metaphor for where we are right where people are so

880
00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:02,160
Speaker 1: concerned about their narrow power that they want to keep.

881
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:04,760
Speaker 1: So take Greg sank. He wants to make the SEC

882
00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:08,480
Speaker 1: this elite set of institutions that only you know, and

883
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:11,600
Speaker 1: shrink the number of teams that get to compete in

884
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:15,000
Speaker 1: the highest levels of college football, rather than saying, how

885
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:17,960
Speaker 1: do I expand, how do I grow? How do I

886
00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:21,759
Speaker 1: make this even bigger? Right? Even? And in fact, if

887
00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:25,400
Speaker 1: you took the TV deal, if college football negotiated their

888
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:28,839
Speaker 1: television contracts the way the NFL does, which basically says, hey,

889
00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:32,000
Speaker 1: you come to us and we'll find a piece, and

890
00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:34,560
Speaker 1: guess what You're going to have to put Jacksonville on,

891
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:36,440
Speaker 1: whether you like it or not. If you want an

892
00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:39,279
Speaker 1: opportunity at one Dallas game this year, you're gonna have

893
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:41,960
Speaker 1: to put Colorado State on. If you would in Miami

894
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:44,560
Speaker 1: of Ohio on, if you would like access to a

895
00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:47,920
Speaker 1: Michigan game over here, you could actually rate. You could

896
00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:51,920
Speaker 1: make more money for everybody, more money for the Max schools,

897
00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:54,000
Speaker 1: more money for the Wax schools, more money for the

898
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:58,040
Speaker 1: Mountain West, oh and more money for the big schools

899
00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:01,080
Speaker 1: as well. It's one of those cases where you could

900
00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:05,239
Speaker 1: be the NFL here and essentially make everybody witcher and

901
00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:09,400
Speaker 1: bigger and wealthier, and what they're doing actually is limiting

902
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:13,080
Speaker 1: their ability collectively. So yes, the SEC can get a

903
00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:15,799
Speaker 1: bigger TV deal, but they've actually limited the amount of

904
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:19,560
Speaker 1: money per school because because they they've screwed up the

905
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:24,600
Speaker 1: negotiating abilities of the rest of the of college football,

906
00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:27,319
Speaker 1: where if they pulled all of their games into one

907
00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:30,399
Speaker 1: thing like the old College Football Association, they could get

908
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:34,239
Speaker 1: then fifteen networks like the NFL does begging for a

909
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:36,520
Speaker 1: piece of the action, right, And.

910
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:40,840
Speaker 2: I think that that's something where you have this idea

911
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:44,440
Speaker 2: that there is that there's a limited money and that

912
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:46,560
Speaker 2: there's a you know, this is a zero sum game,

913
00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:48,120
Speaker 2: and I just don't think it is. And I think

914
00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:50,160
Speaker 2: that that goes I mean, as you mentioned, kind of

915
00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:52,680
Speaker 2: a metaphor for how people are seeing media right now,

916
00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:55,680
Speaker 2: where on the one hander, it does feel kind of

917
00:48:55,719 --> 00:48:58,280
Speaker 2: like you know, you're scrambling, you know, you're playing musical chairs,

918
00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:01,600
Speaker 2: but musical chairs for your and career. But at the

919
00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:04,640
Speaker 2: same time, also there's so much out there, there's so

920
00:49:04,719 --> 00:49:07,560
Speaker 2: much content that could be done. There's so many different

921
00:49:07,600 --> 00:49:10,400
Speaker 2: ways to be doing this. It's okay. If things are different,

922
00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:15,720
Speaker 2: it's okay. If networks are doing different things, it's okay.

923
00:49:15,719 --> 00:49:19,520
Speaker 2: If people are trying different things, that's fine. Like I'm

924
00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:23,080
Speaker 2: definitely of the you know, lat a Million Flowers Bloom

925
00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:26,920
Speaker 2: school on this, and I think that that's you know,

926
00:49:26,960 --> 00:49:30,960
Speaker 2: for college football purposes, like after the Supreme Court basically

927
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:34,600
Speaker 2: said like you can put college football on Saturdays, like

928
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:37,719
Speaker 2: you know, there're there, you know. I think that was

929
00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:40,919
Speaker 2: a Supreme Court decision that basically was like, you guys,

930
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:43,680
Speaker 2: figure it out. You can do this. There's a way

931
00:49:43,719 --> 00:49:45,600
Speaker 2: to do this, but everybody's terrified.

932
00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:48,839
Speaker 1: Well, you have the conference, there's no leadership. But we could,

933
00:49:49,600 --> 00:49:51,640
Speaker 1: we could, We could keep going on that. I want

934
00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:55,120
Speaker 1: to pivot a little bit. Tell me more about how

935
00:49:55,200 --> 00:50:00,080
Speaker 1: you decide, uh, what is worthy of a of a lead?

936
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:02,520
Speaker 1: For you, doing a daily show means you're sort of

937
00:50:02,560 --> 00:50:04,080
Speaker 1: you're on the news, but you don't have to be

938
00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:05,840
Speaker 1: on top of the news, right right, You could be

939
00:50:05,920 --> 00:50:08,080
Speaker 1: news adjacent. I think the same thing I'm doing two

940
00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:09,839
Speaker 1: or three days a week. I always say I got

941
00:50:09,880 --> 00:50:12,040
Speaker 1: to be news adjacent. I don't have to be in

942
00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:16,879
Speaker 1: the moment itself. So you know, you're you know, what's

943
00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:18,640
Speaker 1: a story that you will do and what's a story

944
00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:21,480
Speaker 1: that you won't do because of how you want to

945
00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:23,880
Speaker 1: steer this audience and steer this program.

946
00:50:24,239 --> 00:50:27,080
Speaker 2: Well, it's a it's a decision I make every day.

947
00:50:27,120 --> 00:50:29,320
Speaker 2: It's a decision we make because I have an absolutely

948
00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:31,880
Speaker 2: fantastic team of producers who are thinking about this. And

949
00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:33,359
Speaker 2: the next thing is that you know, we do have

950
00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:35,520
Speaker 2: you know, a headlines portion where we can talk about

951
00:50:35,560 --> 00:50:37,560
Speaker 2: the news of the day, but also there's a lot

952
00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:39,759
Speaker 2: of stuff where it's like, you know, maybe people are

953
00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:43,440
Speaker 2: missing what is actually going on in this debate about medicaid.

954
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:46,120
Speaker 2: I'll give you an example specifically about medicaid in which

955
00:50:46,120 --> 00:50:49,359
Speaker 2: you kept hearing from Republicans like, you know, we are

956
00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:54,040
Speaker 2: funding able bodied working men to sit on their couches,

957
00:50:54,239 --> 00:50:57,560
Speaker 2: and you know, the rhetoric around medicaid was the same

958
00:50:57,640 --> 00:50:59,680
Speaker 2: rhetoric people have been using to talk about welfare or

959
00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:02,280
Speaker 2: the concept of welfare since Oh.

960
00:51:02,200 --> 00:51:04,120
Speaker 1: Medicaid in welfare, I mean, I'm going to be on

961
00:51:04,239 --> 00:51:08,240
Speaker 1: a Medicaid in the eighties was synonymous with welfare. Shouldn't

962
00:51:08,239 --> 00:51:11,200
Speaker 1: have been, but it was rhetorically and there's still a

963
00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:13,920
Speaker 1: lot of Republicans who haven't lost that language.

964
00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:16,279
Speaker 2: Right exactly, because when you say medicaid, I mean for

965
00:51:16,320 --> 00:51:19,080
Speaker 2: the first the first thing is in a lot of

966
00:51:19,120 --> 00:51:23,120
Speaker 2: states because of that, they don't call it medicaid. In California,

967
00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:26,279
Speaker 2: I believe it's medical. So there are lots of people

968
00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:28,960
Speaker 2: who might not even know that they are using medicaid.

969
00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:32,919
Speaker 2: And especially because you know, we had a conversation last

970
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:36,600
Speaker 2: week about this on the show, where basically it works

971
00:51:36,640 --> 00:51:39,600
Speaker 2: out that the majority of people on Medicaid are working.

972
00:51:39,840 --> 00:51:42,000
Speaker 2: It's just that a lot of people don't have jobs

973
00:51:42,040 --> 00:51:45,120
Speaker 2: that offer health insurance or maybe those jobs, you know.

974
00:51:45,200 --> 00:51:48,640
Speaker 2: And if you, let's say you drive for DoorDash, if

975
00:51:48,680 --> 00:51:51,520
Speaker 2: you go to doorda, if you google does DoorDash offer

976
00:51:51,560 --> 00:51:54,280
Speaker 2: health insurance, DoorDash will say, no, we don't. But here's

977
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:57,120
Speaker 2: this app we use where you can either go through

978
00:51:57,280 --> 00:51:59,960
Speaker 2: the Affordable Care Act or you can get on Medicaid

979
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:02,960
Speaker 2: in your state. And so you could go through the exchange,

980
00:52:03,000 --> 00:52:05,759
Speaker 2: which might be pretty expensive for some people. I know,

981
00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:10,799
Speaker 2: like looking at the exchange in California pricey. Looking at

982
00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:13,799
Speaker 2: the exchange in Utah also pricey, but for a lot

983
00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:15,560
Speaker 2: of people Medicaid's going to be a better option, and

984
00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:18,400
Speaker 2: it's you know, you're I don't know. I've worked a

985
00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:21,839
Speaker 2: lot of shitty jobs in my time, so I am

986
00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:24,840
Speaker 2: a appreciator of people who work jobs that a lot

987
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:27,040
Speaker 2: of times we don't talk about that.

988
00:52:27,080 --> 00:52:28,839
Speaker 1: You know, we don't talk about people none of them

989
00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:29,719
Speaker 1: offer benefits.

990
00:52:29,840 --> 00:52:32,160
Speaker 2: They do not offer benefits, and their benefit is just

991
00:52:32,239 --> 00:52:34,239
Speaker 2: drive a lot and then maybe you can afford it

992
00:52:34,239 --> 00:52:36,160
Speaker 2: on your own. And you know, there are people for

993
00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:38,239
Speaker 2: whom Uber is their full time job, door Dash is

994
00:52:38,239 --> 00:52:40,520
Speaker 2: their full time job. They are you know, they're doing

995
00:52:41,239 --> 00:52:43,840
Speaker 2: multiple they might even have I mean you've probably seen this.

996
00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:46,239
Speaker 2: There are people who drive for Uber and Lyft and

997
00:52:46,320 --> 00:52:48,680
Speaker 2: a bunch of other companies too, and that's all they do.

998
00:52:49,239 --> 00:52:53,279
Speaker 2: And so I think that that is a conversation. You know,

999
00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:55,440
Speaker 2: it was not one percent peg to the news, but

1000
00:52:55,440 --> 00:52:57,480
Speaker 2: obviously it's to the news about like what is this?

1001
00:52:57,600 --> 00:52:59,680
Speaker 2: What are we even talking about when we talk about medicaid?

1002
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:04,319
Speaker 2: So I think, like I want our audience to feel informed.

1003
00:53:04,880 --> 00:53:07,320
Speaker 2: I think also the fact that I have an audience

1004
00:53:07,560 --> 00:53:11,520
Speaker 2: that is, you know, we get to hear from them

1005
00:53:11,680 --> 00:53:13,880
Speaker 2: and get to hear from our listeners all the time,

1006
00:53:14,520 --> 00:53:17,480
Speaker 2: and there's a you know, I want our audience to

1007
00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:21,239
Speaker 2: feel like there's somebody who they can listen to. Who

1008
00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:24,080
Speaker 2: because people listen to me every morning that it's a routine.

1009
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:26,200
Speaker 2: But when you do a daily show, you recognize that

1010
00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:29,200
Speaker 2: you are a part of people's routine. And so I

1011
00:53:29,239 --> 00:53:32,440
Speaker 2: am not going to try and just blow everybody's minds

1012
00:53:32,719 --> 00:53:37,759
Speaker 2: with doing something that is like completely totally out of

1013
00:53:37,840 --> 00:53:39,960
Speaker 2: left field. I want people to feel like they can

1014
00:53:39,960 --> 00:53:43,840
Speaker 2: come into the show and kind of an understanding that

1015
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:46,719
Speaker 2: I'm on their side. I'm asking questions that they might

1016
00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:48,680
Speaker 2: be asking. I'm also going to try and challenge them

1017
00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:50,640
Speaker 2: a little bit because I think that there are sometimes

1018
00:53:50,680 --> 00:53:54,719
Speaker 2: people come in with priors. So for example, I mean,

1019
00:53:55,160 --> 00:53:58,000
Speaker 2: even referencing this feels like it was from three thousand

1020
00:53:58,120 --> 00:54:01,160
Speaker 2: years ago. But we had Sparrow on to talk about

1021
00:54:01,160 --> 00:54:04,120
Speaker 2: why he thought it was a good idea that Chuck

1022
00:54:04,160 --> 00:54:07,759
Speaker 2: Schumer went along with. I can't even remember what this

1023
00:54:07,840 --> 00:54:11,560
Speaker 2: debate was about, but the government shutdown, Yes, the government shutdown.

1024
00:54:11,600 --> 00:54:14,759
Speaker 1: Thank you that he was that he yeah, well that

1025
00:54:14,840 --> 00:54:16,640
Speaker 1: was a case where I think Schumer came to the

1026
00:54:16,719 --> 00:54:20,040
Speaker 1: right probably came to the right political decision, but he

1027
00:54:20,080 --> 00:54:23,760
Speaker 1: communicated it so poorly that he ended up basically Harry

1028
00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:24,520
Speaker 1: carry himself.

1029
00:54:24,560 --> 00:54:27,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was everybody was mad, and I was. You know,

1030
00:54:27,640 --> 00:54:29,440
Speaker 2: I wanted to hear from a voice who I thought

1031
00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:31,560
Speaker 2: was smart to tell me why people should not be mad,

1032
00:54:32,000 --> 00:54:34,359
Speaker 2: and I thought he made you know, I like when

1033
00:54:34,360 --> 00:54:36,399
Speaker 2: people are like I disagreed with him, but I kind

1034
00:54:36,400 --> 00:54:39,680
Speaker 2: of understand where that perspective comes from. And so I

1035
00:54:39,719 --> 00:54:42,520
Speaker 2: want to offer that to my audience as well, because

1036
00:54:42,560 --> 00:54:45,640
Speaker 2: I think that I am not going to do the

1037
00:54:45,640 --> 00:54:48,400
Speaker 2: thing where people you know, we have a lot of

1038
00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:50,560
Speaker 2: people right now who will do the thing. Like no

1039
00:54:50,600 --> 00:54:53,480
Speaker 2: one else is telling you this, but I will. Everybody's

1040
00:54:53,480 --> 00:54:56,000
Speaker 2: telling you everything all the time. If you want to

1041
00:54:56,040 --> 00:54:57,960
Speaker 2: hear a thing that you want to hear, you can

1042
00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:00,600
Speaker 2: go find it. But what I want to offer to

1043
00:55:00,640 --> 00:55:04,040
Speaker 2: listeners is to have someone be there to ask the

1044
00:55:04,120 --> 00:55:08,360
Speaker 2: right questions, not just tell them things, but ask questions

1045
00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:10,680
Speaker 2: to other people that can be informative.

1046
00:55:11,160 --> 00:55:13,520
Speaker 1: Do you do you feel as if the algorithms work

1047
00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:15,560
Speaker 1: against you? I mean, and I say this in that

1048
00:55:15,800 --> 00:55:18,480
Speaker 1: the algorithms feel like they're so refined that it really,

1049
00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:21,920
Speaker 1: you know, rewards your partisans and anybody who wants to

1050
00:55:21,960 --> 00:55:28,200
Speaker 1: be questioning anything it algorithms struggle with that. I think so,

1051
00:55:28,760 --> 00:55:31,240
Speaker 1: and it's been I think it's one of the core

1052
00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:37,160
Speaker 1: it's one of the core problems with our our online

1053
00:55:37,840 --> 00:55:42,320
Speaker 1: uh discourse, in that it's at you know again, these

1054
00:55:42,520 --> 00:55:45,040
Speaker 1: big tech companies who have claimed they're not publishers, but

1055
00:55:45,080 --> 00:55:47,360
Speaker 1: the minute they created an algorithm, they became a publisher.

1056
00:55:47,560 --> 00:55:49,640
Speaker 1: And I'm convinced if we went to court, we would

1057
00:55:49,640 --> 00:55:52,719
Speaker 1: win that fight because I think Section I mean, I

1058
00:55:52,800 --> 00:55:55,000
Speaker 1: just think it's beyond I think. I think the minute

1059
00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:57,480
Speaker 1: you create an algorithm, you've changed the nature of your

1060
00:55:57,800 --> 00:55:59,279
Speaker 1: of your relationship with check.

1061
00:55:59,320 --> 00:56:01,440
Speaker 2: You know, I love so two thirty like a member

1062
00:56:01,440 --> 00:56:04,000
Speaker 2: of my own family. So we can have a separate conversation.

1063
00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:05,839
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, we could, But I just say Section

1064
00:56:05,880 --> 00:56:07,880
Speaker 1: two thirty. It's like, I don't even think they've it

1065
00:56:07,960 --> 00:56:09,879
Speaker 1: may give them an exception, but the minute they create

1066
00:56:09,880 --> 00:56:12,799
Speaker 1: an algorithm, they've lost their exception. That's my argument. And

1067
00:56:12,840 --> 00:56:15,760
Speaker 1: I actually think, and I actually think that that hasn't

1068
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:17,799
Speaker 1: been tested, and I think that at some point it

1069
00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:20,239
Speaker 1: could be if you if you wanted to do that.

1070
00:56:20,719 --> 00:56:23,839
Speaker 1: But the bigger issue is just that that I think

1071
00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:26,160
Speaker 1: people are struggling to figure out how to They don't

1072
00:56:26,160 --> 00:56:32,200
Speaker 1: even realize how much they've been siloed away from competing

1073
00:56:33,280 --> 00:56:34,800
Speaker 1: competing viewpoints, right.

1074
00:56:34,840 --> 00:56:40,920
Speaker 2: And I think that part of that is there are

1075
00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:43,640
Speaker 2: a couple of concepts I think a lot about in

1076
00:56:43,760 --> 00:56:49,120
Speaker 2: terms of how to keep myself saying in this news environment.

1077
00:56:49,719 --> 00:56:53,120
Speaker 2: And one is yes, remembering the idea of algorithmic capture,

1078
00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:55,920
Speaker 2: remembering the fact that like things that do well online

1079
00:56:56,040 --> 00:57:00,360
Speaker 2: are not necessarily reflective of like real life, like sample.

1080
00:57:00,640 --> 00:57:02,520
Speaker 2: I mean, I will not say that the Internet is

1081
00:57:02,520 --> 00:57:04,640
Speaker 2: not real, because it is obviously very real, but in

1082
00:57:04,719 --> 00:57:08,200
Speaker 2: terms of thinking about numbers, if you go on any

1083
00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:10,880
Speaker 2: social media site, you would come to believe that, like,

1084
00:57:11,560 --> 00:57:14,640
Speaker 2: you know, there are a lot more trad wives or

1085
00:57:15,120 --> 00:57:15,719
Speaker 2: you know, kind of.

1086
00:57:15,719 --> 00:57:21,200
Speaker 1: How about it. I mean, if you online you think America's.

1087
00:57:21,120 --> 00:57:22,800
Speaker 2: You look at the extual numbers and it's like not

1088
00:57:22,800 --> 00:57:27,919
Speaker 2: not really. But there are two concepts. There is a

1089
00:57:27,960 --> 00:57:31,720
Speaker 2: substracker and podcaster named I think Ethan Strauss who had

1090
00:57:31,720 --> 00:57:34,680
Speaker 2: two ideas. One is one that people have probably heard of,

1091
00:57:34,760 --> 00:57:38,320
Speaker 2: audience capture, which is that you start doing something for

1092
00:57:38,360 --> 00:57:41,840
Speaker 2: an audience and then your audience rewards you the more

1093
00:57:41,840 --> 00:57:44,880
Speaker 2: you give it to them. And that can drive pretty

1094
00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:46,000
Speaker 2: much anybody insane.

1095
00:57:46,520 --> 00:57:49,280
Speaker 1: But I would also say that's cable news. Yes, it.

1096
00:57:50,960 --> 00:57:54,600
Speaker 2: Drives everyone insane. But there's also the idea of criticism capture,

1097
00:57:55,120 --> 00:57:58,360
Speaker 2: and that is when people permit themselves to be driven

1098
00:57:58,360 --> 00:58:02,120
Speaker 2: insane by their biggest critic that they you know, they

1099
00:58:02,160 --> 00:58:05,760
Speaker 2: got yelled at enough times that it drove them totally

1100
00:58:05,840 --> 00:58:11,720
Speaker 2: to a different direction or further into their metaphorical foxhole

1101
00:58:11,800 --> 00:58:15,640
Speaker 2: than they would be in. And my goal in life

1102
00:58:15,680 --> 00:58:18,400
Speaker 2: is to avoid both of those things, both being captured

1103
00:58:18,400 --> 00:58:21,520
Speaker 2: by an audience that tells me how great I am.

1104
00:58:21,600 --> 00:58:23,840
Speaker 2: And if I only just talked about these specific things

1105
00:58:23,880 --> 00:58:25,520
Speaker 2: you wanted to hear about, I would be even better.

1106
00:58:26,080 --> 00:58:30,280
Speaker 2: But also if someone offers criticism to me, I cannot

1107
00:58:30,320 --> 00:58:33,480
Speaker 2: allow myself to be driven insane by that. I cannot

1108
00:58:33,600 --> 00:58:38,200
Speaker 2: allow myself to become siloed in a different direction because

1109
00:58:38,240 --> 00:58:40,360
Speaker 2: someone got mad at me on the Internet. Which is

1110
00:58:40,640 --> 00:58:42,960
Speaker 2: it's a thing, it happens, happened to so many people,

1111
00:58:43,200 --> 00:58:44,360
Speaker 2: But that's the.

1112
00:58:44,320 --> 00:58:47,440
Speaker 1: Thing I want to I'm starting to wonder if we,

1113
00:58:48,040 --> 00:58:51,560
Speaker 1: the human psyche, can't handle what the Internet delivers.

1114
00:58:51,760 --> 00:58:54,080
Speaker 2: Oh, I don't think we were meant to. I can't

1115
00:58:54,120 --> 00:58:56,800
Speaker 2: remember I think it might have been Michelle Goldberg the

1116
00:58:56,800 --> 00:58:58,520
Speaker 2: New York Times. She had a piece a while back

1117
00:58:58,520 --> 00:59:00,840
Speaker 2: that was like, we should all know each other. And

1118
00:59:00,920 --> 00:59:02,960
Speaker 2: I just I don't think the human brand was meant

1119
00:59:02,960 --> 00:59:07,120
Speaker 2: to encounter this many different kinds of people. And you know,

1120
00:59:07,200 --> 00:59:12,080
Speaker 2: I think also there's a Reddit there's a Reddit post

1121
00:59:12,080 --> 00:59:14,680
Speaker 2: I think about a lot, and I regret because it

1122
00:59:14,720 --> 00:59:17,840
Speaker 2: involves some swearing, and the post is like, you know,

1123
00:59:19,040 --> 00:59:21,880
Speaker 2: be into fucking toaster. You know, before the Internet, you'd

1124
00:59:21,880 --> 00:59:24,760
Speaker 2: be intoking toasters. People would be like, what's wrong with you?

1125
00:59:24,760 --> 00:59:28,600
Speaker 2: You'd stop freaking toasters. After the Internet, you're into toasters.

1126
00:59:28,680 --> 00:59:30,919
Speaker 2: You meet a bunch of people online who are into

1127
00:59:30,960 --> 00:59:35,240
Speaker 2: fucking toasters, You accidentally develop a toaster frecking cult, and

1128
00:59:35,440 --> 00:59:37,200
Speaker 2: now you have ruined your life.

1129
00:59:37,320 --> 00:59:40,680
Speaker 1: Well, and Eli Pereiser actually wrote a book about this

1130
00:59:41,160 --> 00:59:44,400
Speaker 1: fifteen years ago, to his credit, and he used the

1131
00:59:44,520 --> 00:59:48,600
Speaker 1: nine to eleven truthers as an example where before the Internet,

1132
00:59:48,720 --> 00:59:52,000
Speaker 1: you know, before Google, essentially you were a weirdo if

1133
00:59:52,000 --> 00:59:53,680
Speaker 1: you were a nine to eleven truther and then you

1134
00:59:53,720 --> 00:59:56,120
Speaker 1: go on Google and say I think there's a conspiracy.

1135
00:59:57,080 --> 00:59:58,880
Speaker 1: You know, you went to toasters. I'm going to go

1136
00:59:58,880 --> 01:00:01,480
Speaker 1: to nine to eleven. Right, I'm not saying, I'm just saying,

1137
01:00:01,920 --> 01:00:04,880
Speaker 1: but all of a sudden, you can find fellow travelers

1138
01:00:04,960 --> 01:00:10,360
Speaker 1: right in the conspiracies that somehow were involved in nine

1139
01:00:10,360 --> 01:00:12,720
Speaker 1: to eleven. And I think that that's the you know,

1140
01:00:12,800 --> 01:00:15,640
Speaker 1: this is what big tech hasn't been able to figure

1141
01:00:15,640 --> 01:00:17,960
Speaker 1: out how to do. And this is where the algorithms,

1142
01:00:18,000 --> 01:00:20,560
Speaker 1: I think. I think they're well meaning, some of them.

1143
01:00:20,960 --> 01:00:22,920
Speaker 1: Like I have a friend of mine who runs the

1144
01:00:23,360 --> 01:00:28,320
Speaker 1: sub stack on jfk ok Jeff Morley. He's jfkfactx dot com.

1145
01:00:28,360 --> 01:00:32,000
Speaker 1: He's the guy that of you know, he takes a

1146
01:00:32,040 --> 01:00:35,200
Speaker 1: journalistic approach. He's certainly a skeptic of what the government's done,

1147
01:00:35,360 --> 01:00:37,640
Speaker 1: but he takes a journalistic approach to everything that's been

1148
01:00:37,640 --> 01:00:42,959
Speaker 1: done about the JFK stuff, but it is considered conspiracy

1149
01:00:43,200 --> 01:00:47,800
Speaker 1: and social media apps sort of drive down his ability

1150
01:00:47,840 --> 01:00:50,600
Speaker 1: to capture an audience when he's less he's not a

1151
01:00:50,680 --> 01:00:53,680
Speaker 1: conspiracy filled guy. He really is using it as a

1152
01:00:53,840 --> 01:00:57,040
Speaker 1: fact based way to sort of try to unravel it.

1153
01:00:57,760 --> 01:01:00,880
Speaker 1: But he's treated by the algorithms as a conspiracy theorists

1154
01:01:00,880 --> 01:01:05,560
Speaker 1: and therefore pushed down. Right, And this is what what

1155
01:01:05,600 --> 01:01:07,840
Speaker 1: these big brains in tech haven't figured out how to

1156
01:01:07,880 --> 01:01:08,800
Speaker 1: do right.

1157
01:01:08,840 --> 01:01:11,720
Speaker 2: And I mean, I think that that's one of the challenges.

1158
01:01:11,760 --> 01:01:13,440
Speaker 2: It's like, you know, there are people behind all of

1159
01:01:13,480 --> 01:01:17,640
Speaker 2: these decisions, and people are fallible. That's how we're made.

1160
01:01:17,800 --> 01:01:21,560
Speaker 2: But I also think that one of the challenges that

1161
01:01:21,640 --> 01:01:26,400
Speaker 2: we have is trying to figure out you know, we

1162
01:01:26,480 --> 01:01:30,480
Speaker 2: are using the internet to find out what people not

1163
01:01:31,360 --> 01:01:33,480
Speaker 2: on the internet are thinking. And I think that that

1164
01:01:33,480 --> 01:01:36,080
Speaker 2: that's a fool's errand that is an inherent that is.

1165
01:01:36,080 --> 01:01:38,439
Speaker 1: A fool to go outside and talk to people. Yeah,

1166
01:01:38,480 --> 01:01:40,800
Speaker 1: and you know that's been you know, look, some of

1167
01:01:40,840 --> 01:01:43,680
Speaker 1: these after action reports on the campaign aren't talking to

1168
01:01:43,800 --> 01:01:46,680
Speaker 1: enough voters, right, They're literally just splicing things up, and

1169
01:01:46,720 --> 01:01:49,439
Speaker 1: it's like, talk to the voter, you know, let's spend

1170
01:01:49,480 --> 01:01:51,240
Speaker 1: a little more time talking to the voter and get

1171
01:01:51,240 --> 01:01:52,080
Speaker 1: their reaction all.

1172
01:01:52,040 --> 01:01:54,200
Speaker 2: This right, And I think like it's okay if you

1173
01:01:54,240 --> 01:01:57,439
Speaker 2: come to the conclusion as I have, that voters are

1174
01:01:57,480 --> 01:02:00,640
Speaker 2: really weird, because they are because individual wolves are weird.

1175
01:02:00,680 --> 01:02:03,240
Speaker 2: People can hold a lot of different political views at once,

1176
01:02:03,680 --> 01:02:06,560
Speaker 2: and I think that, you know, after every election, there's

1177
01:02:06,640 --> 01:02:09,280
Speaker 2: always someone who's like, oh, yeah, you know, I voted

1178
01:02:09,320 --> 01:02:11,840
Speaker 2: for Trump, and I voted to preserve abortion access, and

1179
01:02:11,880 --> 01:02:14,120
Speaker 2: I voted to raise the minimum wage, and people like,

1180
01:02:14,120 --> 01:02:15,480
Speaker 2: how could you do that? And I'm like, welcome to

1181
01:02:15,480 --> 01:02:18,040
Speaker 2: the state of Missouri. Like that's you know, that is

1182
01:02:18,080 --> 01:02:21,040
Speaker 2: a real thing that people are complicated. I mean, I

1183
01:02:21,080 --> 01:02:24,440
Speaker 2: think that That's something I've always liked about sports is

1184
01:02:24,480 --> 01:02:27,160
Speaker 2: that I have been able to go. You know, I've

1185
01:02:27,200 --> 01:02:32,320
Speaker 2: been at sports bars in ten states and watched I've

1186
01:02:32,320 --> 01:02:34,320
Speaker 2: watched a lot of Michigan football and a lot of

1187
01:02:34,320 --> 01:02:37,240
Speaker 2: different places with a lot of different people who all

1188
01:02:37,280 --> 01:02:40,640
Speaker 2: disagree with me about pretty much everything except for Michigan football.

1189
01:02:40,680 --> 01:02:43,080
Speaker 2: I think, you know, one of my I remember going

1190
01:02:43,160 --> 01:02:47,000
Speaker 2: to uh Michigan Maryland game and outside, you know, people

1191
01:02:47,000 --> 01:02:48,680
Speaker 2: are tailgating because I don't know if you know this,

1192
01:02:48,760 --> 01:02:51,840
Speaker 2: but University of Maryland students tailgate harder than I've ever

1193
01:02:51,880 --> 01:02:54,840
Speaker 2: seen anyone tailgate my life. I I genuinely haven't been.

1194
01:02:54,720 --> 01:02:57,040
Speaker 1: To You haven't been to Morgantown, And I'm no West

1195
01:02:57,120 --> 01:02:57,960
Speaker 1: Virginia love.

1196
01:02:58,040 --> 01:03:00,560
Speaker 2: No, they No, I have not been to Morgantowntown.

1197
01:03:00,880 --> 01:03:05,080
Speaker 1: Is the more you really do drink out of maynai'se yards. Yep,

1198
01:03:05,560 --> 01:03:08,760
Speaker 1: I am want to do that. And you know there

1199
01:03:09,040 --> 01:03:11,320
Speaker 1: are couches that are lit on fire. So all these

1200
01:03:11,360 --> 01:03:12,040
Speaker 1: seams are true.

1201
01:03:12,480 --> 01:03:14,880
Speaker 2: I will not lie whenever. I have a friend who

1202
01:03:14,960 --> 01:03:17,120
Speaker 2: is a West Virginia fan, and he sent me a

1203
01:03:17,200 --> 01:03:20,200
Speaker 2: video of everybody singing take Me Home, Country Roads from that stadium,

1204
01:03:20,200 --> 01:03:22,240
Speaker 2: and I got choked up, and I'm like, this is

1205
01:03:22,320 --> 01:03:23,720
Speaker 2: that's what college football does to me.

1206
01:03:23,800 --> 01:03:25,840
Speaker 1: But I've been on the wrong end at West Virginia games.

1207
01:03:25,920 --> 01:03:27,640
Speaker 1: But but yes they are.

1208
01:03:28,840 --> 01:03:32,960
Speaker 2: But I remember going to this game and there is

1209
01:03:33,160 --> 01:03:36,120
Speaker 2: a family, you know, Michigan fans, and so they've got

1210
01:03:36,120 --> 01:03:38,960
Speaker 2: a Michigan flag, a Trump flag and all let's go

1211
01:03:39,080 --> 01:03:43,560
Speaker 2: Brandon fleg But you know, they offered me jello shots

1212
01:03:44,040 --> 01:03:46,400
Speaker 2: and we talked about the game and we talked. You know,

1213
01:03:46,440 --> 01:03:51,240
Speaker 2: this would have been twenty twenty one, so I believe

1214
01:03:51,360 --> 01:03:55,480
Speaker 2: we had just watched I think Maryland was playing Michigan

1215
01:03:55,560 --> 01:03:58,400
Speaker 2: the weekend that Michigan State was playing Ohio State, and

1216
01:03:58,400 --> 01:03:59,960
Speaker 2: then we were about to play Ohio State and all

1217
01:04:00,000 --> 01:04:04,760
Speaker 2: simately win that game, but Ohio State decimated Michigan State

1218
01:04:05,080 --> 01:04:08,160
Speaker 2: like ruin that drove them into the ground. And I

1219
01:04:08,200 --> 01:04:10,880
Speaker 2: remember like watching this game with these like big trumpy

1220
01:04:10,920 --> 01:04:14,000
Speaker 2: Michigan fans and we're all like, oh boy, but like

1221
01:04:14,760 --> 01:04:17,720
Speaker 2: it was a completely it's not a political you know,

1222
01:04:17,880 --> 01:04:19,960
Speaker 2: sports is political. I'm aware of that, but there was

1223
01:04:20,000 --> 01:04:22,320
Speaker 2: this moment where we were coming together across things where

1224
01:04:22,320 --> 01:04:24,560
Speaker 2: it doesn't actually it didn't actually look it come for

1225
01:04:24,560 --> 01:04:27,280
Speaker 2: a matter, and I think that that is something that's

1226
01:04:27,320 --> 01:04:29,520
Speaker 2: the moment. You know, you keep seeing people reporting about

1227
01:04:29,560 --> 01:04:33,560
Speaker 2: Democrats trying to reach out to men or and which

1228
01:04:34,360 --> 01:04:37,320
Speaker 2: I think that the thing people are forgetting is that

1229
01:04:37,680 --> 01:04:41,880
Speaker 2: most people chuck. You and I are freaks. You and

1230
01:04:41,960 --> 01:04:45,680
Speaker 2: I are just weirdo freaks who thinking about you know,

1231
01:04:45,760 --> 01:04:47,959
Speaker 2: people are I'm already kind of like, oh, twenty twenty

1232
01:04:47,960 --> 01:04:50,200
Speaker 2: six midterms thinking about like okay, you know how many

1233
01:04:50,240 --> 01:04:51,720
Speaker 2: seats are here and what are we doing here?

1234
01:04:51,760 --> 01:04:54,920
Speaker 1: And the whole intro to this this episode is going

1235
01:04:54,960 --> 01:04:56,120
Speaker 1: to be about twenty twenty six, so.

1236
01:04:56,080 --> 01:04:59,760
Speaker 2: Of course, yeah, yeah, we're weird, Like that's a weird

1237
01:04:59,840 --> 01:05:02,160
Speaker 2: thing to do. There used to be a time and

1238
01:05:02,240 --> 01:05:04,760
Speaker 2: I sometimes long for this time. You know, when I

1239
01:05:04,880 --> 01:05:08,720
Speaker 2: was interested in politics in like high school, that was weird,

1240
01:05:08,880 --> 01:05:11,440
Speaker 2: like people like we were weird, you know, I was

1241
01:05:11,520 --> 01:05:12,440
Speaker 2: basically I was.

1242
01:05:12,920 --> 01:05:15,680
Speaker 1: Weird for that. I was a government My government teacher

1243
01:05:15,720 --> 01:05:18,280
Speaker 1: loved me. Yeah, no, because I was the one that

1244
01:05:18,360 --> 01:05:19,160
Speaker 1: was paying attention.

1245
01:05:19,560 --> 01:05:22,680
Speaker 2: My APUs history teacher thought I was amazing, and then

1246
01:05:22,760 --> 01:05:25,120
Speaker 2: you know, everybody my age was like, it just turns

1247
01:05:25,160 --> 01:05:28,040
Speaker 2: out that I was, you know, a child too long

1248
01:05:28,120 --> 01:05:30,880
Speaker 2: to be thirty seven years old. But I think that

1249
01:05:31,200 --> 01:05:34,320
Speaker 2: for most people, politics is not a hobby, and I

1250
01:05:34,320 --> 01:05:36,560
Speaker 2: think that that's good. I think political hobbyism is very

1251
01:05:36,600 --> 01:05:39,480
Speaker 2: bad the way in which people think about politics, the

1252
01:05:39,480 --> 01:05:42,040
Speaker 2: way they think about sports. I'm like, I got to

1253
01:05:42,080 --> 01:05:44,400
Speaker 2: tell you I have gotten way more enjoyment out of

1254
01:05:44,400 --> 01:05:45,919
Speaker 2: sports than politics in my life.

1255
01:05:46,240 --> 01:05:48,240
Speaker 1: No, I mean, this is the worst version of it

1256
01:05:48,280 --> 01:05:50,560
Speaker 1: is not to make you know, and this is a

1257
01:05:50,560 --> 01:05:52,560
Speaker 1: complaint that people used to come at me thinking that

1258
01:05:52,640 --> 01:05:55,840
Speaker 1: I was helping to make politics too much like sports.

1259
01:05:55,880 --> 01:05:58,560
Speaker 1: And I understood that. QUI because I agree. I don't

1260
01:05:58,600 --> 01:06:01,720
Speaker 1: think it is right. In fact, we've got to And

1261
01:06:01,720 --> 01:06:03,280
Speaker 1: this is where it's funny. You say that most people

1262
01:06:03,320 --> 01:06:05,919
Speaker 1: aren't political hobbyists. I fear too many people have become

1263
01:06:05,920 --> 01:06:09,200
Speaker 1: political hobbyists. Yes, I think that to many. Thesis me

1264
01:06:09,280 --> 01:06:12,320
Speaker 1: that way. My thesis is too many we have too

1265
01:06:12,400 --> 01:06:15,480
Speaker 1: much time in our hands. That in general, and like

1266
01:06:15,560 --> 01:06:18,520
Speaker 1: you know, I think about two years. I think about

1267
01:06:18,560 --> 01:06:22,480
Speaker 1: fifteen years ago. The average Saturday, I was probably in

1268
01:06:22,480 --> 01:06:25,280
Speaker 1: my car for six hours because I was running all

1269
01:06:25,280 --> 01:06:27,920
Speaker 1: these different errands. Maybe I was finding sports cleats for

1270
01:06:28,000 --> 01:06:30,760
Speaker 1: my kids, or having to go to Dixon there's sports authority,

1271
01:06:30,800 --> 01:06:32,800
Speaker 1: or go over here or go over there. Now, of

1272
01:06:32,800 --> 01:06:35,480
Speaker 1: course everything is punt, you know, just click click, click,

1273
01:06:35,520 --> 01:06:37,560
Speaker 1: and then you just wait for it. And then while

1274
01:06:37,600 --> 01:06:40,320
Speaker 1: you're waiting for the Amazon delivery, you go on social

1275
01:06:40,360 --> 01:06:41,479
Speaker 1: media and fight.

1276
01:06:41,880 --> 01:06:43,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you fight. I mean, I think that's that's

1277
01:06:44,000 --> 01:06:45,720
Speaker 2: the thing I got on. I was on. I got

1278
01:06:45,760 --> 01:06:48,320
Speaker 2: online because I had to work on Memorial Day for

1279
01:06:48,320 --> 01:06:50,680
Speaker 2: a couple of hours because to do the Tuesday show, right,

1280
01:06:50,800 --> 01:06:53,560
Speaker 2: And you get online and people are fighting, and I'm like,

1281
01:06:54,840 --> 01:06:58,640
Speaker 2: go outside. You don't have to be here, go outside.

1282
01:06:59,040 --> 01:07:01,520
Speaker 1: And I often think about what's wrong in their life

1283
01:07:01,560 --> 01:07:03,360
Speaker 1: that they feel as if, you know, today's a good

1284
01:07:03,440 --> 01:07:06,720
Speaker 1: day for me to call so and so a bunch

1285
01:07:06,720 --> 01:07:08,880
Speaker 1: of names and to pick a fight with these people,

1286
01:07:09,000 --> 01:07:09,520
Speaker 1: and it's like.

1287
01:07:09,520 --> 01:07:12,240
Speaker 2: About something that is wrong with your life re markably

1288
01:07:12,520 --> 01:07:16,240
Speaker 2: in you know, policy is important. Politics is the road

1289
01:07:16,360 --> 01:07:18,440
Speaker 2: we take to try to get to policy, and like

1290
01:07:18,520 --> 01:07:20,720
Speaker 2: that's you know, that's how it should be that we're

1291
01:07:20,720 --> 01:07:22,280
Speaker 2: actually supposed to be fighting about, Like.

1292
01:07:22,800 --> 01:07:27,280
Speaker 1: Yeahs is what we created to avoid settling disputes with

1293
01:07:27,360 --> 01:07:31,280
Speaker 1: violence exactly. I mean, actually political debate is a way

1294
01:07:31,320 --> 01:07:33,880
Speaker 1: to avoid death and destruction exactly.

1295
01:07:33,960 --> 01:07:36,640
Speaker 2: You know, it's either this or dueling. And but like,

1296
01:07:37,320 --> 01:07:42,560
Speaker 2: I think that most people think about politics if it

1297
01:07:42,720 --> 01:07:45,840
Speaker 2: impacts their lives or if they're asked about it directly.

1298
01:07:45,840 --> 01:07:47,919
Speaker 2: I mean, this is why any sort of polling about

1299
01:07:47,960 --> 01:07:49,840
Speaker 2: a political subject, I'm always kind of like, well, how

1300
01:07:49,840 --> 01:07:52,480
Speaker 2: did you ask the question? Like what did you know?

1301
01:07:52,680 --> 01:07:54,720
Speaker 1: Oh, I'm off on a tangent on that. You should

1302
01:07:54,720 --> 01:07:57,080
Speaker 1: see this question wording. There's a poll out in Texas

1303
01:07:57,720 --> 01:08:01,880
Speaker 1: that claims that there's this huge port for the vouchers, right,

1304
01:08:03,040 --> 01:08:06,960
Speaker 1: But the way they asked the question was basically, well,

1305
01:08:06,960 --> 01:08:09,760
Speaker 1: what do you think of these education savings accounts? Well,

1306
01:08:09,840 --> 01:08:12,600
Speaker 1: the minute I hear though phrase savings account, I like

1307
01:08:12,720 --> 01:08:15,320
Speaker 1: savings account, Yes, of course you do. It was this

1308
01:08:15,600 --> 01:08:16,880
Speaker 1: terribly worded question.

1309
01:08:17,240 --> 01:08:17,800
Speaker 2: It trive me.

1310
01:08:18,280 --> 01:08:20,960
Speaker 1: And it was actually this was a Texas Southern University,

1311
01:08:20,960 --> 01:08:22,880
Speaker 1: so it wasn't like even an I think this was

1312
01:08:22,920 --> 01:08:26,360
Speaker 1: a case. It wasn't intentional political hackery like sometimes it's

1313
01:08:26,400 --> 01:08:29,960
Speaker 1: intentional hackery with the polling. This wasn't intentional. They read

1314
01:08:30,000 --> 01:08:32,360
Speaker 1: the bill as it was what the bill. You know,

1315
01:08:32,720 --> 01:08:35,600
Speaker 1: the bill was written in a way to be a

1316
01:08:35,840 --> 01:08:39,920
Speaker 1: pr to be to not actually be. They didn't explain

1317
01:08:39,960 --> 01:08:42,320
Speaker 1: the issue very well. They just literally read the text

1318
01:08:42,400 --> 01:08:45,000
Speaker 1: of the bill, which had a bunch of pr language

1319
01:08:45,000 --> 01:08:50,200
Speaker 1: in it. So it is anyway it No, it's really

1320
01:08:50,320 --> 01:08:51,200
Speaker 1: blood vessel pop.

1321
01:08:51,360 --> 01:08:53,120
Speaker 2: It drives me nuts. But I do think like for

1322
01:08:53,280 --> 01:08:56,920
Speaker 2: most people, their experience of politics is not like the

1323
01:08:56,960 --> 01:08:59,000
Speaker 2: way they talk or the way they live their lives.

1324
01:08:59,040 --> 01:09:01,400
Speaker 2: It's kind of like, you know, they have lives, and

1325
01:09:01,400 --> 01:09:03,559
Speaker 2: then politics occasionally gets in the way of that or

1326
01:09:04,040 --> 01:09:06,240
Speaker 2: they need to they're trying to figure out how to

1327
01:09:06,240 --> 01:09:09,120
Speaker 2: do things and someone might promise them or say that

1328
01:09:09,160 --> 01:09:10,640
Speaker 2: they're going to do a thing that could help them,

1329
01:09:10,680 --> 01:09:12,720
Speaker 2: and they're like, okay, that sounds interesting. And so I

1330
01:09:12,720 --> 01:09:16,519
Speaker 2: think like the way in which you get you know,

1331
01:09:16,600 --> 01:09:19,760
Speaker 2: you reach out to people, to voters is to think

1332
01:09:19,800 --> 01:09:21,800
Speaker 2: of them not as voters, but just think of them

1333
01:09:21,840 --> 01:09:25,280
Speaker 2: as like people, people with interests, people with you know,

1334
01:09:25,400 --> 01:09:28,040
Speaker 2: differing interests. Occasionally we do this thing where we're like, oh, like,

1335
01:09:28,080 --> 01:09:30,240
Speaker 2: we only care about kitchen table issues, And I'm like, well,

1336
01:09:30,240 --> 01:09:32,320
Speaker 2: the thing about the idea of the kitchen table issue

1337
01:09:32,840 --> 01:09:35,240
Speaker 2: is that at my kitchen table growing up, we talked

1338
01:09:35,280 --> 01:09:39,280
Speaker 2: about pretty much everything. Like, we talked about everything from

1339
01:09:39,400 --> 01:09:43,479
Speaker 2: you know, my parents are you know, like, you know,

1340
01:09:43,520 --> 01:09:46,120
Speaker 2: my mom passed away last month. But obviously when I

1341
01:09:46,160 --> 01:09:49,160
Speaker 2: was growing up, you know, we would talk about everything

1342
01:09:49,439 --> 01:09:52,600
Speaker 2: from something going on at church, parish council drama to

1343
01:09:53,680 --> 01:09:56,679
Speaker 2: you know, their my dad's memories of seeing Bob Marley

1344
01:09:56,680 --> 01:09:59,519
Speaker 2: live and like nineteen seventy seven in Chicago, And so

1345
01:09:59,720 --> 01:10:02,760
Speaker 2: like what a kitchen table issue is. You know, there's

1346
01:10:02,800 --> 01:10:04,439
Speaker 2: this way we talk about like, oh, this is a

1347
01:10:04,479 --> 01:10:07,080
Speaker 2: real issue. This is this isn't a real It's.

1348
01:10:06,920 --> 01:10:11,880
Speaker 1: Like real Americans versus every fake people like it, you know,

1349
01:10:11,960 --> 01:10:14,240
Speaker 1: every day Americans versus the every other day American.

1350
01:10:14,360 --> 01:10:17,280
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, you know Tuesday Americans, but not Thursday Americans.

1351
01:10:17,320 --> 01:10:20,000
Speaker 2: So I think like thinking of voters, like people who

1352
01:10:20,120 --> 01:10:23,120
Speaker 2: are interested. You know, there are lots of people who

1353
01:10:23,360 --> 01:10:29,920
Speaker 2: for whom politics is this opaque wall that you feel

1354
01:10:29,920 --> 01:10:30,519
Speaker 2: like you need.

1355
01:10:30,520 --> 01:10:31,480
Speaker 1: Very inaccessible.

1356
01:10:31,560 --> 01:10:32,640
Speaker 2: I mean, that's accessible.

1357
01:10:32,880 --> 01:10:34,919
Speaker 1: I've always wanted to try to make it more accessible

1358
01:10:34,960 --> 01:10:40,040
Speaker 1: because I think it's easily easier to access than folks realize.

1359
01:10:39,800 --> 01:10:43,479
Speaker 2: Right exactly. And I think that that's something that is

1360
01:10:43,560 --> 01:10:48,280
Speaker 2: really irritating to me, in which when you make political hobbyism,

1361
01:10:48,479 --> 01:10:51,640
Speaker 2: you know, such a thing, you make politics less accessible

1362
01:10:51,640 --> 01:10:53,280
Speaker 2: to people because they feel as if if they want

1363
01:10:53,320 --> 01:10:54,920
Speaker 2: to get engaged in politics, they have to do the

1364
01:10:54,920 --> 01:10:56,679
Speaker 2: whole thing that has to be all they talk about.

1365
01:10:56,840 --> 01:10:58,439
Speaker 2: They have to be one of those people who only

1366
01:10:58,479 --> 01:11:00,920
Speaker 2: posts like it's mad at you if you post about

1367
01:11:00,960 --> 01:11:03,840
Speaker 2: non politics. You're like, how could you be thinking about

1368
01:11:03,840 --> 01:11:05,000
Speaker 2: this at a time like this?

1369
01:11:05,360 --> 01:11:07,479
Speaker 1: Well, how dare you think about Michigan football when there

1370
01:11:07,479 --> 01:11:09,040
Speaker 1: are kids starving somewhere in the.

1371
01:11:09,120 --> 01:11:12,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, and what's wrong? Just you know, that's all

1372
01:11:12,800 --> 01:11:16,760
Speaker 2: you know, you have to perform being mad all the

1373
01:11:16,800 --> 01:11:20,800
Speaker 2: time performance and like that, I think that performativity, it

1374
01:11:20,920 --> 01:11:21,600
Speaker 2: really bothers me.

1375
01:11:21,640 --> 01:11:22,960
Speaker 1: All right, I'm going to get you out of here

1376
01:11:23,000 --> 01:11:26,000
Speaker 1: on this. Where are you on the on the level

1377
01:11:26,040 --> 01:11:30,120
Speaker 1: of Biden coverage and the level of media culpability in Biden?

1378
01:11:30,360 --> 01:11:32,920
Speaker 1: And I say this and that I'm somebody who thinks that,

1379
01:11:33,880 --> 01:11:38,000
Speaker 1: you know, blaming the media is usually those that want

1380
01:11:38,040 --> 01:11:40,160
Speaker 1: to blame put this almost all on the press are

1381
01:11:40,240 --> 01:11:42,439
Speaker 1: usually those that are just trying to destroy the press

1382
01:11:42,439 --> 01:11:45,680
Speaker 1: for other reasons, versus this being to me what it

1383
01:11:45,720 --> 01:11:48,799
Speaker 1: really is is a Democratic party issue. But I accept

1384
01:11:48,800 --> 01:11:52,040
Speaker 1: that there were certainly some members of the media who

1385
01:11:52,080 --> 01:11:57,599
Speaker 1: were overtly defensive of Biden, perhaps to protect their own access.

1386
01:11:57,640 --> 01:11:59,840
Speaker 1: So that's sort of where I come down on this.

1387
01:12:00,760 --> 01:12:04,440
Speaker 1: I'm curious where you come down on this, and more importantly,

1388
01:12:05,400 --> 01:12:08,200
Speaker 1: how important of an issue do you think it's going

1389
01:12:08,240 --> 01:12:11,360
Speaker 1: to be for folks that were in the Biden administration,

1390
01:12:12,280 --> 01:12:13,719
Speaker 1: including the Vice president.

1391
01:12:14,439 --> 01:12:16,760
Speaker 2: I think I have a couple of views on this,

1392
01:12:17,439 --> 01:12:19,360
Speaker 2: and some of them conflict, and I'm aware of that

1393
01:12:19,360 --> 01:12:23,080
Speaker 2: because I'm still kind of working through this one. I

1394
01:12:23,240 --> 01:12:29,519
Speaker 2: think that how we are the media, we are interested

1395
01:12:29,520 --> 01:12:32,880
Speaker 2: in this because it impacts us. We are admittedly very

1396
01:12:32,880 --> 01:12:36,760
Speaker 2: self involved people. That's just how we are industries. You know,

1397
01:12:36,800 --> 01:12:39,600
Speaker 2: it's an industry conversation that is happening among people in

1398
01:12:39,640 --> 01:12:44,600
Speaker 2: an industry. How voters feel about it is going to

1399
01:12:44,640 --> 01:12:48,120
Speaker 2: be different than how we will think about it. I think,

1400
01:12:48,240 --> 01:12:50,360
Speaker 2: for example, you know there is pulling that came out

1401
01:12:50,400 --> 01:12:52,479
Speaker 2: from you gov. I think today that talked about how

1402
01:12:52,600 --> 01:12:56,400
Speaker 2: like voters in general want more health information on people

1403
01:12:56,520 --> 01:12:59,800
Speaker 2: running for office. Great fine, pretty lowly fine with it.

1404
01:13:00,080 --> 01:13:02,559
Speaker 2: That's a logical thing to want. You know, we are

1405
01:13:02,600 --> 01:13:03,320
Speaker 2: not we don't.

1406
01:13:03,160 --> 01:13:05,559
Speaker 1: Need to be like, by the way, that's what makes

1407
01:13:05,560 --> 01:13:08,599
Speaker 1: me feel better about our information ecosystem when voters respond

1408
01:13:08,720 --> 01:13:11,680
Speaker 1: pretty logically to obviously you would like, we need more

1409
01:13:11,720 --> 01:13:12,800
Speaker 1: medical information.

1410
01:13:13,200 --> 01:13:17,120
Speaker 2: More medical information, and that totally makes sense to me. Like,

1411
01:13:17,200 --> 01:13:18,840
Speaker 2: you know, we are not the kings of yr We

1412
01:13:18,880 --> 01:13:20,680
Speaker 2: do not need to worry. You know, this is we

1413
01:13:20,720 --> 01:13:24,040
Speaker 2: don't we don't have dynasties like, that's not how this works.

1414
01:13:24,439 --> 01:13:28,479
Speaker 2: People want more information, totally get it. I think what

1415
01:13:28,800 --> 01:13:32,400
Speaker 2: the impact will be for people who were in the administration,

1416
01:13:33,680 --> 01:13:37,720
Speaker 2: I think that that really depends on what those people do.

1417
01:13:38,560 --> 01:13:40,599
Speaker 2: So for instance, I'm aware that there are a bunch

1418
01:13:40,680 --> 01:13:43,040
Speaker 2: of Republicans who have gotten themselves really psyched up for

1419
01:13:43,080 --> 01:13:44,800
Speaker 2: the idea that Kamala Harris is going to run for

1420
01:13:44,840 --> 01:13:49,519
Speaker 2: governor of California. They're very excited about this. However, the

1421
01:13:49,640 --> 01:13:52,320
Speaker 2: challenge will be that she is running to be governor

1422
01:13:52,360 --> 01:13:56,120
Speaker 2: of California, not president of the United States, and that

1423
01:13:56,240 --> 01:14:00,240
Speaker 2: is you know, state level gubernatorial elections, especially in California,

1424
01:14:00,560 --> 01:14:03,840
Speaker 2: a state that is you know, not as blue as

1425
01:14:03,880 --> 01:14:06,240
Speaker 2: people think, but the blue population centers are very blue.

1426
01:14:06,960 --> 01:14:10,360
Speaker 2: It's going to be how people feel about it nationally

1427
01:14:10,400 --> 01:14:12,880
Speaker 2: and how people feel about it regionally are going to

1428
01:14:12,920 --> 01:14:17,679
Speaker 2: be different things. I think that there is a degree

1429
01:14:17,800 --> 01:14:22,880
Speaker 2: to I think that in terms of media culpability. Again,

1430
01:14:22,960 --> 01:14:26,160
Speaker 2: this is a media thing, talking about media in general.

1431
01:14:26,240 --> 01:14:28,400
Speaker 2: When I talk to people about this who are not

1432
01:14:28,560 --> 01:14:32,080
Speaker 2: in media, they are like, yeah, we knew Biden was old.

1433
01:14:32,400 --> 01:14:33,760
Speaker 2: You did not need to tell us this.

1434
01:14:34,080 --> 01:14:37,080
Speaker 1: Well, that's my that's my frustration. This was they were

1435
01:14:37,280 --> 01:14:41,240
Speaker 1: voters were screaming about the the that's the thing. And

1436
01:14:41,280 --> 01:14:43,280
Speaker 1: you know who was conducting the polls and the media

1437
01:14:43,280 --> 01:14:47,640
Speaker 1: who were forcing this question onto survey.

1438
01:14:46,360 --> 01:14:48,439
Speaker 2: Kept saying, you know, that was not a hidden thing.

1439
01:14:48,560 --> 01:14:52,720
Speaker 2: And I think that there is a type of and

1440
01:14:52,800 --> 01:14:56,439
Speaker 2: I get this. I understand the people who were like, yes,

1441
01:14:56,520 --> 01:14:59,000
Speaker 2: Biden's old, I'm aware of that. I'm fine with it.

1442
01:14:59,160 --> 01:15:03,080
Speaker 2: Stop yelling at me, you know, stop talking like this idea. Also,

1443
01:15:03,080 --> 01:15:05,240
Speaker 2: I mean, I think that one of the challenges you

1444
01:15:05,280 --> 01:15:08,280
Speaker 2: also have is that you you are not talking about

1445
01:15:08,400 --> 01:15:10,920
Speaker 2: Joe Biden being old in a vacuum. You're talking about

1446
01:15:11,000 --> 01:15:15,519
Speaker 2: Joe Biden being old versus Donald Trump, who attempted to

1447
01:15:15,920 --> 01:15:18,200
Speaker 2: stage an insurrection, Like I think that there are a

1448
01:15:18,200 --> 01:15:21,480
Speaker 2: bunch of people, like there is a I unwell.

1449
01:15:21,160 --> 01:15:23,280
Speaker 1: As Joe Biden liked to used to say, don't judge

1450
01:15:23,320 --> 01:15:26,200
Speaker 1: me by the almighty, judge me by the alternative exactly.

1451
01:15:26,400 --> 01:15:30,519
Speaker 2: And so now, however, that is not a good that

1452
01:15:30,640 --> 01:15:32,640
Speaker 2: is not an excuse for anything. That is not an

1453
01:15:32,680 --> 01:15:36,519
Speaker 2: excuse for having essentially a so you know, the quote

1454
01:15:36,600 --> 01:15:39,440
Speaker 2: unquote poll up bureau be running things in an administration.

1455
01:15:39,920 --> 01:15:42,120
Speaker 2: I will say it is kind of funny. And my

1456
01:15:42,640 --> 01:15:44,880
Speaker 2: former colleague Matthew Glaci has pointed this out that like

1457
01:15:45,360 --> 01:15:47,439
Speaker 2: there is this idea of like the Biden administration just

1458
01:15:47,520 --> 01:15:50,120
Speaker 2: run by left wing radicals, and then it turns out

1459
01:15:50,120 --> 01:15:53,479
Speaker 2: that it was actually run by like normy Democrats, which

1460
01:15:53,479 --> 01:15:56,719
Speaker 2: is lightly funny to me. But like I do think

1461
01:15:56,960 --> 01:16:01,320
Speaker 2: that what you know, you had people say this person

1462
01:16:01,400 --> 01:16:04,800
Speaker 2: is too old. You had Biden himself essentially saying like

1463
01:16:04,920 --> 01:16:07,439
Speaker 2: I am here to pass the torch to the next generation.

1464
01:16:07,880 --> 01:16:10,559
Speaker 2: And then he had the same thing if you have

1465
01:16:10,640 --> 01:16:14,040
Speaker 2: ever encountered an elderly person in your life where they're

1466
01:16:14,080 --> 01:16:18,080
Speaker 2: like I'm fine, I'm I'm doing great, because that's how

1467
01:16:18,160 --> 01:16:21,439
Speaker 2: age works, that's how people work. So you had people,

1468
01:16:21,840 --> 01:16:24,400
Speaker 2: you know, a person who believed he could fully do

1469
01:16:24,439 --> 01:16:26,240
Speaker 2: the job and actually was the only person who could

1470
01:16:26,240 --> 01:16:29,960
Speaker 2: do the job, the job being defeat Donald Trump. You

1471
01:16:30,040 --> 01:16:33,559
Speaker 2: had people around him who, as far as I can tell,

1472
01:16:34,280 --> 01:16:37,439
Speaker 2: let him think that and kept going with it and

1473
01:16:37,760 --> 01:16:39,920
Speaker 2: basically tried to keep away anyone else who could tell

1474
01:16:39,960 --> 01:16:43,559
Speaker 2: him otherwise. And then you had voters who were like,

1475
01:16:44,280 --> 01:16:46,679
Speaker 2: what are you doing? You know what's going on here.

1476
01:16:46,720 --> 01:16:48,920
Speaker 2: We're going to keep saying you're too old for this.

1477
01:16:48,920 --> 01:16:52,760
Speaker 2: This is making us anxious, and people not listening to

1478
01:16:52,840 --> 01:16:56,360
Speaker 2: that third group of people. And I think that the

1479
01:16:56,560 --> 01:16:59,600
Speaker 2: challenge for media is I don't want to get like

1480
01:16:59,640 --> 01:17:03,680
Speaker 2: the re cremations right now. It feels very much like

1481
01:17:05,280 --> 01:17:07,759
Speaker 2: it's it's it's successive, Like it's.

1482
01:17:07,640 --> 01:17:10,559
Speaker 1: Not like I said it to me, It exposes I

1483
01:17:10,560 --> 01:17:13,200
Speaker 1: always say this, you know, I don't take anybody with bias,

1484
01:17:13,320 --> 01:17:17,240
Speaker 1: who who charges bias seriously because you're biased, You're not

1485
01:17:17,800 --> 01:17:19,960
Speaker 1: you're not a you're not a fair arbiter of this

1486
01:17:20,080 --> 01:17:22,640
Speaker 1: at all. And like I said, most of the criticism

1487
01:17:22,800 --> 01:17:25,439
Speaker 1: of the press is coming from people who have their

1488
01:17:25,479 --> 01:17:28,840
Speaker 1: own alternative media that they're trying to promote as a

1489
01:17:28,920 --> 01:17:31,360
Speaker 1: replacement for this, So it's sort of they have their

1490
01:17:31,400 --> 01:17:35,639
Speaker 1: own business interests at it. And and so that's why

1491
01:17:35,680 --> 01:17:37,800
Speaker 1: it's like, to me, the original sin is not listening

1492
01:17:37,840 --> 01:17:38,400
Speaker 1: to the voters.

1493
01:17:38,600 --> 01:17:42,360
Speaker 2: The voters complete voter said, you know, the voters were saying,

1494
01:17:42,439 --> 01:17:44,680
Speaker 2: like this person's too well. The voters were saying, like

1495
01:17:45,240 --> 01:17:47,040
Speaker 2: we like some of these things, like they're you know,

1496
01:17:47,200 --> 01:17:49,400
Speaker 2: I think that the actual story to me of the

1497
01:17:49,400 --> 01:17:53,160
Speaker 2: Biden administration is that he had a concept of deliverism

1498
01:17:53,240 --> 01:17:55,160
Speaker 2: of like you said, you wanted this, We're going to

1499
01:17:55,200 --> 01:17:57,720
Speaker 2: do this. You said you wanted this from unions, wanted this,

1500
01:17:57,760 --> 01:17:59,559
Speaker 2: We're going to do this. But he was too old

1501
01:17:59,640 --> 01:18:02,400
Speaker 2: to our articulate the like what you could do that

1502
01:18:02,439 --> 01:18:04,320
Speaker 2: part of the job, which means part of the job,

1503
01:18:04,360 --> 01:18:08,200
Speaker 2: but matters like there's a version of Biden, a theoretical

1504
01:18:08,240 --> 01:18:12,559
Speaker 2: Biden who is doing this when he's fifty five and

1505
01:18:12,600 --> 01:18:16,400
Speaker 2: who is like ronning around, you know, running around at

1506
01:18:16,439 --> 01:18:18,200
Speaker 2: every single you.

1507
01:18:18,160 --> 01:18:20,680
Speaker 1: Know, union hall. You could see it, you know what,

1508
01:18:20,760 --> 01:18:21,800
Speaker 1: you know what it was called. It was called the

1509
01:18:21,840 --> 01:18:24,840
Speaker 1: Clinton presidency, it was called the Obama presidency. It's like

1510
01:18:24,960 --> 01:18:27,840
Speaker 1: you saw president when travel the country.

1511
01:18:27,600 --> 01:18:30,320
Speaker 2: When you sell all the time, right and you're selling it,

1512
01:18:30,560 --> 01:18:32,920
Speaker 2: and you don't have to rely on the results to

1513
01:18:33,000 --> 01:18:36,000
Speaker 2: sell it because people are you know, we've seen this

1514
01:18:36,040 --> 01:18:39,280
Speaker 2: again and again how voters can totally disconnect between the

1515
01:18:39,320 --> 01:18:41,160
Speaker 2: person who did the thing and the results of the thing.

1516
01:18:41,720 --> 01:18:44,680
Speaker 2: And so I think that that's the challenge here, is

1517
01:18:44,680 --> 01:18:47,000
Speaker 2: that people didn't listen to voters. It is not to

1518
01:18:47,080 --> 01:18:50,960
Speaker 2: me about yelling media, yelling at media, because that's not interesting.

1519
01:18:51,080 --> 01:18:54,280
Speaker 2: What it is about to me is people saying, like,

1520
01:18:54,360 --> 01:18:56,240
Speaker 2: I know what the voters are saying, but also these

1521
01:18:56,240 --> 01:18:58,240
Speaker 2: people are really annoying to me, so I'm just not

1522
01:18:58,240 --> 01:18:59,800
Speaker 2: going to listen to them. Like, we need to do

1523
01:18:59,840 --> 01:19:02,240
Speaker 2: a better job of listening to voters. The challenge is

1524
01:19:02,240 --> 01:19:04,360
Speaker 2: nobody wants to do that. Even the people who say

1525
01:19:04,400 --> 01:19:07,320
Speaker 2: like Americans agree, no, they don't look it up, they

1526
01:19:07,320 --> 01:19:10,920
Speaker 2: don't agree. So like, listen to voters and think about,

1527
01:19:11,000 --> 01:19:13,639
Speaker 2: you know, how can we put forward policies that make

1528
01:19:13,720 --> 01:19:15,519
Speaker 2: sense to voters and then sell it to voters and

1529
01:19:15,560 --> 01:19:18,000
Speaker 2: then voters will say I like it, I don't like it.

1530
01:19:18,280 --> 01:19:21,000
Speaker 2: Here's why you look at those numbers. You say, you know,

1531
01:19:21,080 --> 01:19:22,400
Speaker 2: either we're going to go with the voters on this,

1532
01:19:22,520 --> 01:19:25,400
Speaker 2: or we're like, actually, no, we're going to say this

1533
01:19:25,560 --> 01:19:28,240
Speaker 2: is the right thing to do, and we're going to

1534
01:19:28,360 --> 01:19:31,080
Speaker 2: you know, we'll suffer the political heat from doing that,

1535
01:19:31,120 --> 01:19:32,760
Speaker 2: but we'll know we were right. There are so many

1536
01:19:32,760 --> 01:19:35,599
Speaker 2: alternatives than just a media circle jerk.

1537
01:19:38,040 --> 01:19:40,439
Speaker 1: As every conversation I have with you, I always feel

1538
01:19:40,439 --> 01:19:42,439
Speaker 1: I can go another hour, but I am mindful of

1539
01:19:42,479 --> 01:19:44,400
Speaker 1: your time, mindful of rank you so much. We can't

1540
01:19:44,439 --> 01:19:45,920
Speaker 1: do that, but let me I will ask you this

1541
01:19:45,960 --> 01:19:46,519
Speaker 1: one question.

1542
01:19:46,760 --> 01:19:47,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, is.

1543
01:19:49,240 --> 01:19:52,960
Speaker 1: How hot is the seat under the still newish head

1544
01:19:52,960 --> 01:19:56,640
Speaker 1: coach of Michigan. I mean I say this because in

1545
01:19:56,680 --> 01:19:59,360
Speaker 1: this day and age of if you make the playoff,

1546
01:19:59,360 --> 01:20:01,320
Speaker 1: you've had a success ful season, and if you haven't,

1547
01:20:01,400 --> 01:20:05,240
Speaker 1: you haven't. What's the level of patience I.

1548
01:20:05,280 --> 01:20:08,200
Speaker 2: Stak where actually people are feeling good? The recruiting has

1549
01:20:08,240 --> 01:20:11,479
Speaker 2: been fantastic, uh, you know, bringing in number one, you know,

1550
01:20:11,560 --> 01:20:14,840
Speaker 2: bringing number one quarterback prospect, a guy who people are

1551
01:20:14,840 --> 01:20:17,040
Speaker 2: talking about the spring game. I mean it's a spring game.

1552
01:20:17,439 --> 01:20:20,640
Speaker 2: Everybody sounds like they're doing Pravda level propaganda.

1553
01:20:20,640 --> 01:20:22,320
Speaker 1: When you talk about the spring game, you want to

1554
01:20:22,320 --> 01:20:28,280
Speaker 1: talk about taller and journalism college football journalists, Oh my god,

1555
01:20:28,640 --> 01:20:31,120
Speaker 1: they're all they all just feed off of it.

1556
01:20:31,280 --> 01:20:33,080
Speaker 2: I've experienced what it's like when you're with like a

1557
01:20:33,560 --> 01:20:36,439
Speaker 2: smaller program and you like people get away with things

1558
01:20:36,439 --> 01:20:38,720
Speaker 2: where you just couldn't do that, like you know, if

1559
01:20:38,760 --> 01:20:41,840
Speaker 2: you uh, you know, I lived in Utah, lived in

1560
01:20:41,840 --> 01:20:45,160
Speaker 2: Salt Lake City, and cam Rising basically didn't play and

1561
01:20:45,160 --> 01:20:47,720
Speaker 2: now has retired from football, and the oh that.

1562
01:20:47,720 --> 01:20:50,160
Speaker 1: Would be a huge story in a southern school or

1563
01:20:50,160 --> 01:20:51,000
Speaker 1: a Midwest.

1564
01:20:50,680 --> 01:20:53,320
Speaker 2: Oh my god. But the year I was there, we

1565
01:20:53,439 --> 01:20:55,439
Speaker 2: run in like you know, it was the Oregon State game,

1566
01:20:55,439 --> 01:20:56,320
Speaker 2: which was every week.

1567
01:20:56,720 --> 01:21:00,800
Speaker 1: Rising was last gambler every week. Yeah.

1568
01:21:00,880 --> 01:21:02,479
Speaker 2: Yeah. The Utah media was like, I don't know, he

1569
01:21:02,560 --> 01:21:05,200
Speaker 2: might play, and I'm like, I don't think he's gonna play,

1570
01:21:05,280 --> 01:21:09,800
Speaker 2: but anyway, So I think your actual question was how

1571
01:21:09,880 --> 01:21:13,920
Speaker 2: is everybody feeling? The vibes are remarkably good because we

1572
01:21:14,000 --> 01:21:17,840
Speaker 2: had the most hilarious month in I think Michigan football history,

1573
01:21:17,920 --> 01:21:20,599
Speaker 2: where you know, you beat Northwestern like you should, then

1574
01:21:20,640 --> 01:21:24,479
Speaker 2: you go to Columbus beat the eventual national champions thirteen

1575
01:21:24,479 --> 01:21:27,360
Speaker 2: to ten, and the Zenith austomedies.

1576
01:21:27,400 --> 01:21:30,640
Speaker 1: Absolutely one of the It was such a a it

1577
01:21:30,680 --> 01:21:34,160
Speaker 1: was such a it was a fitting. It was yeah something,

1578
01:21:34,200 --> 01:21:34,559
Speaker 1: it was fair.

1579
01:21:34,680 --> 01:21:36,720
Speaker 2: It restored me in a way I didn't know I

1580
01:21:36,760 --> 01:21:38,720
Speaker 2: needed to be restored. And then you know, we win

1581
01:21:38,800 --> 01:21:42,880
Speaker 2: our bowl game against Alabama in a monsoon And during

1582
01:21:42,920 --> 01:21:45,240
Speaker 2: all of this we've picked up number one quarterback recruit,

1583
01:21:45,680 --> 01:21:47,600
Speaker 2: and the recruiting seems to be really good. Like, I

1584
01:21:47,640 --> 01:21:50,559
Speaker 2: think that the idea. The thing I'm a little worried

1585
01:21:50,560 --> 01:21:53,360
Speaker 2: about is running back. But I think like the you know,

1586
01:21:53,439 --> 01:21:56,280
Speaker 2: plug and play offensive line I feel good about. I

1587
01:21:56,320 --> 01:21:59,320
Speaker 2: think that in terms of like the hot seed or

1588
01:21:59,320 --> 01:22:02,040
Speaker 2: something like that, I think Sharon's fine. I think that

1589
01:22:02,120 --> 01:22:04,640
Speaker 2: there's a lot of latitude people have been willing to

1590
01:22:04,640 --> 01:22:09,640
Speaker 2: give him, given that you had Harball leave right, you know,

1591
01:22:09,680 --> 01:22:12,040
Speaker 2: basically after the National championship, because he did what he

1592
01:22:12,080 --> 01:22:15,320
Speaker 2: said he was going to do. Right. You had, you know,

1593
01:22:15,680 --> 01:22:19,240
Speaker 2: the continuity. You know, the players wanted Charon. Players wanted Charon.

1594
01:22:19,280 --> 01:22:21,439
Speaker 2: You had that continuity. You had no quarterback.

1595
01:22:22,320 --> 01:22:24,599
Speaker 1: I will tell you that that doesn't That works until

1596
01:22:24,600 --> 01:22:26,479
Speaker 1: it doesn't work, I'm aware.

1597
01:22:26,479 --> 01:22:27,960
Speaker 2: And that's the thing I think it didn't go well,

1598
01:22:28,160 --> 01:22:30,519
Speaker 2: the lack of the quarterback. I mean, to go eight

1599
01:22:30,560 --> 01:22:32,360
Speaker 2: and five while having, as far as I could tell,

1600
01:22:32,520 --> 01:22:34,160
Speaker 2: not one quarterback on the run.

1601
01:22:34,280 --> 01:22:36,720
Speaker 1: I know, but you had the best quarterback name in

1602
01:22:36,760 --> 01:22:41,760
Speaker 1: college football. Everybody wanted to have an orgy over and

1603
01:22:41,800 --> 01:22:44,840
Speaker 1: it was just such a disappointment that Orgie was not

1604
01:22:44,880 --> 01:22:46,679
Speaker 1: a lot of fun. And that's what you hear about

1605
01:22:46,760 --> 01:22:49,720
Speaker 1: orgy is it. Sometimes it doesn't make it happens.

1606
01:22:49,400 --> 01:22:54,800
Speaker 2: It happens. But I'm feeling I'm feeling good, good. That

1607
01:22:54,920 --> 01:22:57,240
Speaker 2: is how I'm feeling about Sharon Moore and his position

1608
01:22:57,280 --> 01:22:57,759
Speaker 2: at Michigan.

1609
01:22:58,760 --> 01:23:01,920
Speaker 1: Well, it's a as always, I can't wait for college

1610
01:23:01,920 --> 01:23:04,080
Speaker 1: football to start. I wish which college football had a

1611
01:23:04,120 --> 01:23:06,880
Speaker 1: scheduling reveal, which college football had these weird things that

1612
01:23:06,920 --> 01:23:08,840
Speaker 1: the NFL has somehow creeped into our life.

1613
01:23:08,960 --> 01:23:12,360
Speaker 2: Believe me already, I'm like, let's get those previews going.

1614
01:23:12,479 --> 01:23:13,800
Speaker 2: Let's do it. Let's do it, SRT.

1615
01:23:14,360 --> 01:23:16,479
Speaker 1: Thank you, Chuck, Jane, this was a pleasure, good luck,

1616
01:23:16,880 --> 01:23:25,280
Speaker 1: Thank you well. I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Jane.

1617
01:23:25,280 --> 01:23:27,800
Speaker 1: We didn't solve the college football problem. But I do

1618
01:23:27,880 --> 01:23:30,920
Speaker 1: want to get on my soapbox for one other thing here.

1619
01:23:32,439 --> 01:23:35,479
Speaker 1: When you start to guarantee bids, it's interesting. There's an

1620
01:23:35,520 --> 01:23:38,040
Speaker 1: interesting little back and forth going on the Big Ten

1621
01:23:38,080 --> 01:23:42,400
Speaker 1: apparently is what is who wants guaranteed bids? Because they

1622
01:23:42,439 --> 01:23:46,360
Speaker 1: secretly know that their super conference isn't that impressive after

1623
01:23:46,400 --> 01:23:48,679
Speaker 1: the top three or four schools, that there's a huge

1624
01:23:48,760 --> 01:23:50,840
Speaker 1: drop off that if you want to sit here, and

1625
01:23:51,200 --> 01:23:53,800
Speaker 1: you know both the ACC and the Big twelve have

1626
01:23:54,520 --> 01:23:58,680
Speaker 1: a stronger middle class of college football programs, then I

1627
01:23:58,680 --> 01:24:01,000
Speaker 1: would argue the Big Ten hats. But the Big Ten

1628
01:24:01,080 --> 01:24:03,439
Speaker 1: has a couple of big prestigious ones, don't get me wrong,

1629
01:24:03,800 --> 01:24:08,000
Speaker 1: and they certainly have population centers that that fire them up.

1630
01:24:08,400 --> 01:24:11,760
Speaker 1: But that is Big Ten secretly knows this, which is

1631
01:24:11,760 --> 01:24:13,599
Speaker 1: why they want to try to guarantee four slots, because

1632
01:24:13,600 --> 01:24:16,680
Speaker 1: they shouldn't. They wouldn't earn four slots every year. Just

1633
01:24:16,920 --> 01:24:21,080
Speaker 1: let's stick to some sort of criteria that in theory,

1634
01:24:21,320 --> 01:24:24,000
Speaker 1: leaves it possible for any power for team to make

1635
01:24:24,040 --> 01:24:27,799
Speaker 1: it into the playoffs. Guaranteeing spots beyond winning your conference

1636
01:24:28,280 --> 01:24:33,520
Speaker 1: becomes subjective and you will have I think, gaming of schedules,

1637
01:24:33,600 --> 01:24:35,800
Speaker 1: all sorts of stuff. All it is going to do

1638
01:24:35,880 --> 01:24:39,439
Speaker 1: is lead to a worse product for the public. All right,

1639
01:24:39,640 --> 01:24:43,680
Speaker 1: What you need to do is create a playoff that

1640
01:24:44,920 --> 01:24:52,080
Speaker 1: that essentially motivates college football programs to play tougher schedules,

1641
01:24:52,479 --> 01:24:56,839
Speaker 1: not weaker schedules to play more high profile non conference games,

1642
01:24:57,240 --> 01:25:00,479
Speaker 1: not less high profile conference games. This is what wins

1643
01:25:00,640 --> 01:25:03,440
Speaker 1: for everybody. If you want to keep getting these astronomical

1644
01:25:03,479 --> 01:25:09,200
Speaker 1: amounts of media rightes dollars present a good product. Guess what,

1645
01:25:09,360 --> 01:25:11,679
Speaker 1: people don't want to watch a lot of Mississippi State

1646
01:25:11,800 --> 01:25:14,160
Speaker 1: versus LSU and all that stuff. No offense to my

1647
01:25:14,200 --> 01:25:16,800
Speaker 1: friends in Starkville. Okay, when you're good, we do want

1648
01:25:16,800 --> 01:25:18,400
Speaker 1: to watch it. When Mike Leach is your coach, we

1649
01:25:18,400 --> 01:25:20,760
Speaker 1: want to watch it. Don't get me wrong. Okay, but

1650
01:25:20,840 --> 01:25:22,479
Speaker 1: you know what people really want to see. They want

1651
01:25:22,479 --> 01:25:25,360
Speaker 1: to see USC play in Miami. They want to see

1652
01:25:25,400 --> 01:25:28,200
Speaker 1: a North Carolina play at Texas. They want to see

1653
01:25:28,479 --> 01:25:34,040
Speaker 1: an Alabama play Wisconsin or a BYU. So the point is,

1654
01:25:34,200 --> 01:25:37,880
Speaker 1: let's see these things once or twice in the regular season,

1655
01:25:37,880 --> 01:25:41,640
Speaker 1: and we could we anyway. So I really hope that

1656
01:25:41,680 --> 01:25:45,360
Speaker 1: the college football powers that be think about the fans

1657
01:25:45,360 --> 01:25:47,519
Speaker 1: and what's in the best interests of the sport, not

1658
01:25:47,640 --> 01:25:50,000
Speaker 1: just what's in the best interests of one or two

1659
01:25:50,080 --> 01:25:55,120
Speaker 1: conferences that might be worried that they've bankrupted themselves by

1660
01:25:55,160 --> 01:25:59,960
Speaker 1: over expanding. All right, off my college football so box here,

1661
01:26:00,760 --> 01:26:07,040
Speaker 1: let's do a little last Chuck Ask Chuck. Remember, if

1662
01:26:07,040 --> 01:26:09,360
Speaker 1: you've got questions for me, send them an Ask Chuck

1663
01:26:09,479 --> 01:26:12,679
Speaker 1: at the Chuck Podcast dot com. Or you can drop

1664
01:26:12,720 --> 01:26:14,960
Speaker 1: a question in the YouTube comments, drop a question on

1665
01:26:14,960 --> 01:26:18,840
Speaker 1: our Instagram feed, drop question dm me. Mydms are open

1666
01:26:19,479 --> 01:26:21,240
Speaker 1: if you want to drop me a question there, drop

1667
01:26:21,280 --> 01:26:23,160
Speaker 1: it on wherever you want to drop us a question.

1668
01:26:23,640 --> 01:26:27,320
Speaker 1: But again, the email is ask Chuck at thechucktodcast dot com.

1669
01:26:27,320 --> 01:26:30,720
Speaker 1: All right, first question comes from Michael H of Everett, Washington,

1670
01:26:31,320 --> 01:26:35,519
Speaker 1: The Other Washington. I really appreciate your long form interview format.

1671
01:26:35,560 --> 01:26:37,519
Speaker 1: As someone who has been watching the Sunday shows since

1672
01:26:37,520 --> 01:26:39,479
Speaker 1: I was in high school in the nineties, I appreciate

1673
01:26:39,520 --> 01:26:41,280
Speaker 1: the value of a good interview of those in power

1674
01:26:41,360 --> 01:26:43,840
Speaker 1: or seeking power. Giving your interviewing experience, what advice would

1675
01:26:43,840 --> 01:26:46,320
Speaker 1: you give to people watching political interviews? What should we

1676
01:26:46,360 --> 01:26:49,360
Speaker 1: be paying attention to and what should we not be

1677
01:26:49,479 --> 01:26:51,679
Speaker 1: distracted by? Thank you for your time. That's an interesting

1678
01:26:51,680 --> 01:26:55,519
Speaker 1: way of putting it well, I would say this look.

1679
01:26:56,280 --> 01:26:59,439
Speaker 1: The length of the interview sometimes tells you everything, right.

1680
01:27:00,160 --> 01:27:01,560
Speaker 1: I don't think you can get a lot out of

1681
01:27:01,560 --> 01:27:05,400
Speaker 1: a five to ten minute interview other than the answer

1682
01:27:05,439 --> 01:27:08,760
Speaker 1: to one or two news making questions, right that, you know,

1683
01:27:08,840 --> 01:27:11,040
Speaker 1: any interview that's ten minutes or less is usually more

1684
01:27:11,080 --> 01:27:15,200
Speaker 1: about a topic, and so at best, you know, the

1685
01:27:15,240 --> 01:27:17,120
Speaker 1: smartest way I think to use a seven to ten

1686
01:27:17,160 --> 01:27:20,360
Speaker 1: minute interview is a single topic, right go, So that way,

1687
01:27:20,360 --> 01:27:22,639
Speaker 1: at least you're deep on one issue. Maybe you could

1688
01:27:22,640 --> 01:27:25,880
Speaker 1: sneak in a second question or second topic, second question,

1689
01:27:26,160 --> 01:27:28,600
Speaker 1: three or four questions, but a second topic, so that

1690
01:27:29,160 --> 01:27:31,479
Speaker 1: you know, if you start to see a laundry list

1691
01:27:31,520 --> 01:27:35,960
Speaker 1: of questions, you know that's probably an interview that's worths given.

1692
01:27:36,280 --> 01:27:38,880
Speaker 1: You know, you know, you want to know that it's

1693
01:27:39,280 --> 01:27:42,640
Speaker 1: of the moment and all of that. I thought you

1694
01:27:42,640 --> 01:27:44,479
Speaker 1: were going to ask of what's what's one of your

1695
01:27:44,560 --> 01:27:48,040
Speaker 1: best pieces of for interviewing somebody? And of course the

1696
01:27:48,080 --> 01:27:52,720
Speaker 1: simplest piece of advice is shorter questions, right nobody. One

1697
01:27:52,760 --> 01:27:55,720
Speaker 1: of the biggest mistakes I've made it at times, and

1698
01:27:55,960 --> 01:27:58,320
Speaker 1: so I will confess to it, and plenty of others do.

1699
01:28:00,240 --> 01:28:04,760
Speaker 1: Most people aren't watching an interview judging whether it was

1700
01:28:04,760 --> 01:28:08,559
Speaker 1: a good question. Most people are watching an interview trying

1701
01:28:08,560 --> 01:28:11,599
Speaker 1: to see if they're trying to find out if they're

1702
01:28:11,640 --> 01:28:16,120
Speaker 1: interested in the answers. Right, they're much more focused on

1703
01:28:16,120 --> 01:28:19,360
Speaker 1: the interview E than the interview Or if you're making

1704
01:28:19,400 --> 01:28:23,120
Speaker 1: it about yourself during your interview, you've probably already quote

1705
01:28:23,160 --> 01:28:29,200
Speaker 1: lost the interview right, So shorter questions. And here's another one.

1706
01:28:29,320 --> 01:28:33,840
Speaker 1: Don't fill empty space. Let the interview E fill the

1707
01:28:33,840 --> 01:28:38,240
Speaker 1: empty space. In some ways, if there's this awkward silence,

1708
01:28:39,240 --> 01:28:43,200
Speaker 1: a lot of times, if you just simply say and

1709
01:28:43,200 --> 01:28:47,880
Speaker 1: and you make the INTERVIEWE offer fill that silence, a

1710
01:28:47,960 --> 01:28:51,920
Speaker 1: lot of times you get something really interesting. Appreciate that question.

1711
01:28:52,400 --> 01:28:56,960
Speaker 1: Next one comes from Brian Parts Unknown. Brian writes, are

1712
01:28:56,960 --> 01:28:59,360
Speaker 1: the Democrats working behind the scenes writing bills waiting for

1713
01:28:59,400 --> 01:29:01,559
Speaker 1: the You'll be to collapse in twenty twenty six so

1714
01:29:01,560 --> 01:29:04,280
Speaker 1: they can try to repair our standing in the world

1715
01:29:04,320 --> 01:29:06,280
Speaker 1: and more importantly here at home. You know, it's a

1716
01:29:06,280 --> 01:29:10,280
Speaker 1: good question. There's no evidence that they are, but it's

1717
01:29:10,280 --> 01:29:12,519
Speaker 1: something I've been thinking about. I'm putting together a project

1718
01:29:12,600 --> 01:29:14,639
Speaker 1: that is a little more focused on twenty twenty eight.

1719
01:29:15,800 --> 01:29:18,920
Speaker 1: Will let you know more when I have more to share.

1720
01:29:19,479 --> 01:29:24,479
Speaker 1: But in thinking about that, I was, you know, it

1721
01:29:24,680 --> 01:29:28,479
Speaker 1: dawned on me that Democrats or any party out of power,

1722
01:29:29,040 --> 01:29:31,080
Speaker 1: the Republicans do a better have done a better job

1723
01:29:31,120 --> 01:29:33,559
Speaker 1: of this at times where they try to present a

1724
01:29:33,600 --> 01:29:37,080
Speaker 1: sort of out of power alternative platform. Right, whether it

1725
01:29:37,200 --> 01:29:40,880
Speaker 1: was the Contract with America, the original one back in

1726
01:29:40,920 --> 01:29:43,960
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety two, you should be nineteen eighty four, unveiled

1727
01:29:44,120 --> 01:29:46,840
Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty four, those elections that had lined by

1728
01:29:46,880 --> 01:29:50,680
Speaker 1: new Gingritz, There's been derivatives of that that House Republicans

1729
01:29:50,720 --> 01:29:53,200
Speaker 1: have tried to do in various ways since the Contract

1730
01:29:53,240 --> 01:29:57,439
Speaker 1: with America, Project twenty twenty five, which you know, Donald

1731
01:29:57,479 --> 01:30:01,400
Speaker 1: Trump both embraced and then distanced, and now of course

1732
01:30:01,400 --> 01:30:05,160
Speaker 1: it is governing via model. I think that gave them.

1733
01:30:05,320 --> 01:30:07,760
Speaker 1: You know, I think what made twenty Project twenty twenty

1734
01:30:07,840 --> 01:30:11,120
Speaker 1: five brilliant is the Democrats spend all this time talking

1735
01:30:11,120 --> 01:30:14,080
Speaker 1: about Trump's plans. So even if they were talking about

1736
01:30:14,080 --> 01:30:16,479
Speaker 1: Trump's plans in a negative light, what was the message

1737
01:30:16,520 --> 01:30:19,639
Speaker 1: that was being sent to voters Trump has plans. Nobody

1738
01:30:19,640 --> 01:30:21,040
Speaker 1: ever said Donald Trump didn't know what he was going

1739
01:30:21,080 --> 01:30:24,280
Speaker 1: to do with his presidency. Right. So the point is

1740
01:30:24,760 --> 01:30:26,840
Speaker 1: you're asking a question about whether Democrats are doing this,

1741
01:30:26,920 --> 01:30:29,519
Speaker 1: and there's probably a couple that actually are trying to

1742
01:30:29,760 --> 01:30:33,360
Speaker 1: prepare bills that they might put on you know, if

1743
01:30:33,439 --> 01:30:36,960
Speaker 1: Democrats get the majority. Certainly your committee potential committee chairs

1744
01:30:36,960 --> 01:30:39,280
Speaker 1: are thinking about how they might run a committee, but

1745
01:30:39,320 --> 01:30:42,519
Speaker 1: there's no big idea like this. And I certainly think

1746
01:30:42,520 --> 01:30:45,599
Speaker 1: if you plan on running for president, I think Project

1747
01:30:45,640 --> 01:30:49,160
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five is something is something not to turn

1748
01:30:49,200 --> 01:30:52,000
Speaker 1: your nose up at, but it's something to think about emulating.

1749
01:30:52,640 --> 01:30:55,559
Speaker 1: I think voters want to see a plan. You know,

1750
01:30:55,600 --> 01:30:58,439
Speaker 1: they're realistic, they know not everything's going to get put in.

1751
01:30:58,520 --> 01:31:02,760
Speaker 1: But if you have plans, in some ways, that is

1752
01:31:02,800 --> 01:31:06,400
Speaker 1: giving voters, I think, an idea that at least you

1753
01:31:06,439 --> 01:31:07,680
Speaker 1: have an idea of what you want to do when

1754
01:31:07,680 --> 01:31:09,920
Speaker 1: you're in office, and in many ways, voters are more

1755
01:31:09,960 --> 01:31:12,800
Speaker 1: likely to reward that, even even if some of the

1756
01:31:12,800 --> 01:31:16,880
Speaker 1: specifics quote unquote are unpopular when you pull them right.

1757
01:31:16,920 --> 01:31:18,840
Speaker 1: And I think that was the sort of miss that

1758
01:31:18,960 --> 01:31:21,559
Speaker 1: was the mistake Democrats made with Project twenty twenty five.

1759
01:31:21,920 --> 01:31:25,559
Speaker 1: I think the larger message they inadvertently sent when they

1760
01:31:26,160 --> 01:31:28,960
Speaker 1: railed against Project twenty twenty five is Donald Trump has

1761
01:31:29,000 --> 01:31:33,000
Speaker 1: a plan. And I think some voters were oddly reassured, oh, well,

1762
01:31:33,040 --> 01:31:36,080
Speaker 1: he has a plan and there's something to look at it.

1763
01:31:37,080 --> 01:31:44,919
Speaker 1: Look Democrats, you know, look and in some ways they

1764
01:31:45,680 --> 01:31:47,640
Speaker 1: were abiding by a rule book that used to be.

1765
01:31:47,720 --> 01:31:51,040
Speaker 1: But you know, we always say it's not that the

1766
01:31:51,120 --> 01:31:54,080
Speaker 1: rules don't apply, but like the rules are constantly changing,

1767
01:31:54,120 --> 01:31:56,639
Speaker 1: and sometimes you don't realize it until after the fact.

1768
01:31:57,400 --> 01:32:00,720
Speaker 1: And Democrats, you know, there was a time where it

1769
01:32:00,800 --> 01:32:02,719
Speaker 1: was the Democrats that would put up too many policy

1770
01:32:02,720 --> 01:32:05,720
Speaker 1: plans or Republicans wouldn't put out anything, and Republicans just

1771
01:32:05,760 --> 01:32:08,920
Speaker 1: had a field day running against the Democratic plans, you know,

1772
01:32:09,080 --> 01:32:11,840
Speaker 1: and being able to run against hypothetical ideas. Think Green

1773
01:32:11,920 --> 01:32:16,360
Speaker 1: New Deal. Right, that's a classic example. You know, some

1774
01:32:16,439 --> 01:32:18,360
Speaker 1: of it is in marketing and some of it isn't that.

1775
01:32:18,400 --> 01:32:24,160
Speaker 1: But I think that there is a you know, Democrats

1776
01:32:24,280 --> 01:32:26,240
Speaker 1: ran away from their Green New Deal. And while Donald

1777
01:32:26,280 --> 01:32:28,439
Speaker 1: Trump kind of ran away from Project twenty twenty five,

1778
01:32:28,479 --> 01:32:30,479
Speaker 1: he didn't run away from the specifics of what was

1779
01:32:30,479 --> 01:32:34,200
Speaker 1: in Project twenty twenty five. He just simply said no, no, no,

1780
01:32:34,240 --> 01:32:36,400
Speaker 1: I'm not letting somebody else write my agenda. Right, he

1781
01:32:36,439 --> 01:32:38,640
Speaker 1: was sort of he was sort of, but there was

1782
01:32:38,640 --> 01:32:42,320
Speaker 1: a wink at a nod to it. I Like I said,

1783
01:32:42,600 --> 01:32:48,040
Speaker 1: I think that Democrats would behoove themselves to make this

1784
01:32:48,080 --> 01:32:50,799
Speaker 1: goes back to what is Trump really good at making

1785
01:32:50,920 --> 01:32:56,000
Speaker 1: Democrats constantly talk about him and in some ways, you know,

1786
01:32:56,080 --> 01:32:58,559
Speaker 1: while it used to be being in a referendum election. Look,

1787
01:32:58,640 --> 01:33:02,439
Speaker 1: that explains why he can't win a big have a

1788
01:33:02,439 --> 01:33:05,240
Speaker 1: big victory, right, and why he's still polarizing. At the

1789
01:33:05,280 --> 01:33:08,800
Speaker 1: same time, it explains why he's still electable. Right. He's

1790
01:33:08,840 --> 01:33:12,840
Speaker 1: made everything all about him, his ideas and all this stuff.

1791
01:33:12,880 --> 01:33:15,800
Speaker 1: So when you think about twenty twenty eight, you know,

1792
01:33:16,800 --> 01:33:18,200
Speaker 1: I think voters are going to want to know that

1793
01:33:18,240 --> 01:33:20,439
Speaker 1: Democrats have a plan, that they know what they want

1794
01:33:20,479 --> 01:33:24,240
Speaker 1: to do. You know, whether do you go in the

1795
01:33:24,280 --> 01:33:26,840
Speaker 1: specificity that Project twenty twenty five did. We can have

1796
01:33:26,880 --> 01:33:30,639
Speaker 1: that debate, but I think in hindsight, Project twenty twenty

1797
01:33:30,640 --> 01:33:33,360
Speaker 1: five turned into a net positive for Trump, not necessarily

1798
01:33:33,439 --> 01:33:36,160
Speaker 1: a negative. All Right, last question I'm gonna deal with

1799
01:33:36,200 --> 01:33:38,880
Speaker 1: today comes from Dell p also did not tell me

1800
01:33:38,880 --> 01:33:41,519
Speaker 1: where they were from. During the last cycle, we heard

1801
01:33:41,520 --> 01:33:44,760
Speaker 1: a lot of old school Republicans and many and in

1802
01:33:44,800 --> 01:33:47,080
Speaker 1: many ways low information voters who would say, well, I

1803
01:33:47,120 --> 01:33:49,559
Speaker 1: don't really like Trump, but I've voted Republican all my

1804
01:33:49,600 --> 01:33:51,639
Speaker 1: life and I can't see myself voting for a Democrat.

1805
01:33:51,920 --> 01:33:54,080
Speaker 1: Democrats and many Republicans spent a ton of time trying

1806
01:33:54,120 --> 01:33:56,280
Speaker 1: to convince these disaffected Republicans that they should vote for

1807
01:33:56,320 --> 01:33:59,280
Speaker 1: Harris to quote save democracy. It didn't work. It seems

1808
01:33:59,320 --> 01:34:02,160
Speaker 1: like the solution was so simple. Run a Cheney Kinsinger

1809
01:34:02,360 --> 01:34:05,160
Speaker 1: or another Commo of dispector Republican ticket as a third

1810
01:34:05,160 --> 01:34:07,559
Speaker 1: party and basically split the vote on the right, thereby

1811
01:34:07,560 --> 01:34:09,680
Speaker 1: giving the race to Harris. It would have been just

1812
01:34:09,760 --> 01:34:12,320
Speaker 1: like the nineteen ninety two election with Pero that helped

1813
01:34:12,320 --> 01:34:14,040
Speaker 1: give the election to Clinton. Do you think this would

1814
01:34:14,040 --> 01:34:16,240
Speaker 1: have worked? It seems so obvious. If it's not so

1815
01:34:16,320 --> 01:34:18,680
Speaker 1: obvious or simple, why if it is, why didn't they

1816
01:34:18,720 --> 01:34:21,679
Speaker 1: do it? Look, you accept a premise that I don't accept,

1817
01:34:21,720 --> 01:34:25,559
Speaker 1: and that is this idea that Ross Perot Ross Perot

1818
01:34:25,560 --> 01:34:27,680
Speaker 1: took more from Bush than he did from Clinton. There

1819
01:34:27,720 --> 01:34:30,000
Speaker 1: is zero evidence of that. In fact, all the numbers

1820
01:34:30,080 --> 01:34:35,000
Speaker 1: indicate that they took about evenly. Now, I think Pero's

1821
01:34:35,080 --> 01:34:40,840
Speaker 1: presence as a second anti Bush messenger was very and

1822
01:34:40,880 --> 01:34:45,519
Speaker 1: this gets it to the dynamics of who's the incumbent party.

1823
01:34:45,640 --> 01:34:48,920
Speaker 1: I think what you're describing in twenty twenty four would

1824
01:34:48,960 --> 01:34:51,479
Speaker 1: have worked against the Democrats and to Trump's benefit. Why

1825
01:34:52,120 --> 01:34:57,519
Speaker 1: because in some ways you had an incumbent Democratic president,

1826
01:34:57,840 --> 01:35:01,000
Speaker 1: you'd had to say this third party of right leaning,

1827
01:35:01,640 --> 01:35:06,559
Speaker 1: you know, so it's it's Liz Cheney, it's Adam Kinsinger, right,

1828
01:35:06,600 --> 01:35:12,040
Speaker 1: pro democracy center right ticket over here, who would be

1829
01:35:12,080 --> 01:35:17,320
Speaker 1: making as much of a domestic case against Democrats as

1830
01:35:17,360 --> 01:35:21,080
Speaker 1: they would be a democracy case against Trump. Right, So

1831
01:35:21,760 --> 01:35:25,960
Speaker 1: Trump space would be the same, and you probably have

1832
01:35:26,000 --> 01:35:29,320
Speaker 1: a more divided coalition of independence who were you know,

1833
01:35:29,360 --> 01:35:32,120
Speaker 1: who sort of held their nose and voted for Biden

1834
01:35:32,120 --> 01:35:36,200
Speaker 1: in twenty But we're looking for another way, and you'd

1835
01:35:36,240 --> 01:35:41,280
Speaker 1: be providing that path now alternatively right as the if

1836
01:35:41,760 --> 01:35:43,880
Speaker 1: Trump was the incumbent party, then I could make a

1837
01:35:43,920 --> 01:35:46,160
Speaker 1: case that yes, that might work, right you make a

1838
01:35:46,160 --> 01:35:49,920
Speaker 1: more direct appeal to some of that Trump coalition. But

1839
01:35:49,960 --> 01:35:53,040
Speaker 1: I think the problem is in twenty four a Liz

1840
01:35:53,120 --> 01:35:57,639
Speaker 1: Cheney Adam Kinsinger third party candidacy probably would have when

1841
01:35:57,680 --> 01:36:01,160
Speaker 1: we saw some numbers indicating this. Although hypothetical polling sometimes

1842
01:36:01,439 --> 01:36:05,160
Speaker 1: can overexaggerate some of these trend lines, it's likely I

1843
01:36:05,200 --> 01:36:07,439
Speaker 1: think it would have. It would have hurt Biden because

1844
01:36:07,439 --> 01:36:10,559
Speaker 1: he was the incumbent. It is one of those cases

1845
01:36:10,560 --> 01:36:13,960
Speaker 1: where perhaps right if it's a if. It's if it

1846
01:36:14,000 --> 01:36:17,479
Speaker 1: was a Republican administration trying to seek another term. And

1847
01:36:17,520 --> 01:36:19,360
Speaker 1: this is why maybe in twenty twenty eight this will

1848
01:36:19,400 --> 01:36:23,080
Speaker 1: work out that way, that that's possible. But again, you

1849
01:36:23,120 --> 01:36:25,840
Speaker 1: will not. I will never accept this. There is been

1850
01:36:25,960 --> 01:36:29,720
Speaker 1: an attempt by Republicans for decades to try to say

1851
01:36:29,800 --> 01:36:33,760
Speaker 1: Clinton only one because of Perro. I just you know,

1852
01:36:34,120 --> 01:36:36,200
Speaker 1: I will. I will go to my grave believing that

1853
01:36:36,280 --> 01:36:39,120
Speaker 1: even in a two way race, Clinton Clinton likely wins

1854
01:36:39,120 --> 01:36:41,360
Speaker 1: that election. I understand the moment how it felt. But

1855
01:36:41,400 --> 01:36:47,160
Speaker 1: there was change. There was no case to reelect the incumbent, right,

1856
01:36:47,360 --> 01:36:51,760
Speaker 1: It was a change election. And so if you weren't

1857
01:36:51,800 --> 01:36:53,320
Speaker 1: going to change the incumbent, what else were you going

1858
01:36:53,400 --> 01:36:58,480
Speaker 1: to change? Right? And both Pero and Clinton were changed candidates,

1859
01:36:58,560 --> 01:37:03,559
Speaker 1: and that ultimately really hurt the incumbent. And in the

1860
01:37:03,600 --> 01:37:07,320
Speaker 1: scenario you're outlining, the two change candidates would have been

1861
01:37:07,320 --> 01:37:09,960
Speaker 1: Trump and this Republicans would have been almost sort of

1862
01:37:10,280 --> 01:37:13,640
Speaker 1: two change candidates versus one status quote candidate. And I

1863
01:37:13,680 --> 01:37:16,160
Speaker 1: don't think it would have helped the status quote candidate.

1864
01:37:16,400 --> 01:37:18,400
Speaker 1: All Right, that does it for me for this episode.

1865
01:37:18,439 --> 01:37:21,840
Speaker 1: I think I've rambled on long enough. There love those

1866
01:37:21,920 --> 01:37:26,479
Speaker 1: questions please keep them coming, and I plan to upload

1867
01:37:26,479 --> 01:37:28,720
Speaker 1: again within the next twenty four hours. So thanks for

1868
01:37:28,760 --> 01:37:32,040
Speaker 1: listening and don't forget like and subscribe wherever you are

1869
01:37:32,120 --> 01:37:38,839
Speaker 1: hearing or watching this podcast. Thank you.