WEBVTT - Selma Blair on learning to trust herself 0:00:04.120 --> 0:00:06.080 What do you do when life doesn't go according to 0:00:06.200 --> 0:00:09.760 plan that moment you lose a job, or a loved one, 0:00:10.280 --> 0:00:14.120 or even a piece of yourself. I'm Brookshields and this 0:00:14.560 --> 0:00:18.759 is now What, a podcast about pivotal moments as told 0:00:18.760 --> 0:00:21.600 by people who lived them. Each week, I sit down 0:00:21.600 --> 0:00:23.840 with a guest to talk about the times they were 0:00:23.920 --> 0:00:26.920 knocked off course and what they did to move forward. 0:00:27.880 --> 0:00:33.080 Some stories are funny, others are gut wrenching, but all 0:00:33.360 --> 0:00:38.320 are unapologetically human and remind us that every success and 0:00:38.479 --> 0:00:42.839 every setback is accompanied by a choice, and that choice 0:00:43.000 --> 0:00:51.080 answers one question. Now, what what title do you wear now? 0:00:51.120 --> 0:00:51.880 With pride? 0:00:52.040 --> 0:00:53.880 I think it's I think it is. 0:00:53.960 --> 0:00:59.960 Kind and only a truly deeply kind person would adopt 0:01:00.160 --> 0:01:02.000 dog with one eye AM name him Wink. 0:01:03.160 --> 0:01:06.200 Oh my god, thank you. I loved Wink. Wink is 0:01:06.240 --> 0:01:07.400 still my soul dog. 0:01:07.760 --> 0:01:12.360 I remember seeing you with Wink and thinking how cool 0:01:12.520 --> 0:01:13.720 that somebody is like that. 0:01:14.240 --> 0:01:18.959 It was my first lesson in like disability and turning 0:01:18.959 --> 0:01:20.959 it us ahead to be like kind of a strange. 0:01:21.120 --> 0:01:23.800 I just seriously, I know that sounds so silly, but 0:01:23.920 --> 0:01:26.120 it was like people at the time were really freaked 0:01:26.120 --> 0:01:28.360 out by this one. I dog like I'd see reactions. 0:01:28.520 --> 0:01:31.640 We were outside at a restaurant and I was like, oh, 0:01:31.800 --> 0:01:33.679 Someunma was just so happy. And then you were like, 0:01:34.400 --> 0:01:38.120 I see the dog you go this is Wink And 0:01:38.200 --> 0:01:40.880 I was like, oh my god, I couldn't love you more. 0:01:40.920 --> 0:01:43.280 I was like, of course his name is Wank. 0:01:43.640 --> 0:01:44.760 Thank you. You know. 0:01:44.800 --> 0:01:47.480 Gammero del Toro even named a character Wink and hell 0:01:47.520 --> 0:01:49.559 Boy two, so it inspired the greats. 0:01:49.600 --> 0:01:51.280 Guamo Brooke liked it. 0:01:54.080 --> 0:01:58.040 My guest today is Selma Blair. She's a brilliant actor, 0:01:58.280 --> 0:02:02.880 a mom, an advocate, and an author. She's also remarkably 0:02:03.000 --> 0:02:07.080 kind and self reflective, traits that are rare in life 0:02:07.520 --> 0:02:10.600 and even more so in Hollywood. Selma's had a long 0:02:10.680 --> 0:02:14.000 career on both stage and screen, which has been marked 0:02:14.000 --> 0:02:18.959 by blockbuster success in films like Cruel Intentions, Legally Blonde, 0:02:19.440 --> 0:02:23.560 and a Hellboy. In twenty eighteen, she announced that she 0:02:23.639 --> 0:02:25.960 was diagnosed with MS, which was a disease that she 0:02:26.000 --> 0:02:30.399 had unknowingly struggled with for many years, and since then 0:02:30.960 --> 0:02:35.640 she's chronicled her experience in her documentary Introducing Selma Blair. 0:02:36.320 --> 0:02:40.760 She's participated in Dancing with the Stars and She's penned 0:02:40.760 --> 0:02:44.000 her book Mean Baby, which is one of the best 0:02:44.040 --> 0:02:48.520 memoirs I've ever read. I'm really thrilled that she agreed 0:02:48.560 --> 0:02:52.040 to do this show. Here is Selma Blair. 0:02:54.919 --> 0:02:58.679 Hi, Oh god, dear Brookshoes. 0:02:58.880 --> 0:03:02.360 Is that my book? How long have you had the 0:03:02.440 --> 0:03:03.720 Brook Book? That's crazy? 0:03:03.840 --> 0:03:04.840 I don't know, I don't know. 0:03:04.960 --> 0:03:07.000 Oh my god, but yeah, that's wild. 0:03:06.520 --> 0:03:08.959 You that Oh my god. 0:03:09.000 --> 0:03:11.800 No, it had like a library card saying it's mine. 0:03:11.800 --> 0:03:14.320 And I wrote Selma Blair because I knew one day 0:03:14.840 --> 0:03:18.520 I would be Selma Blair, not Blair Blow. It's the 0:03:18.560 --> 0:03:21.280 Brook Book and it was put out in nineteen seventy eight, 0:03:21.440 --> 0:03:24.240 and I got it, you know, at about that age. 0:03:24.360 --> 0:03:26.280 I was born in seventy two, and. 0:03:27.760 --> 0:03:29.760 It was it has photographs of you and they're all 0:03:29.840 --> 0:03:32.600 obviously unbelievably beautiful, and it's like, you know, a little 0:03:32.639 --> 0:03:35.280 documentary book. And it was so precious to me. And 0:03:35.320 --> 0:03:38.320 I didn't have many things, truly. I only had a 0:03:38.320 --> 0:03:41.200 couple of things. Had a book, Grease, the movie this, 0:03:41.840 --> 0:03:43.360 you know, there were a couple of things that I had. 0:03:43.520 --> 0:03:44.920 Did your mom buy you that book? 0:03:45.120 --> 0:03:48.360 Yes, she bought me this book, and she encouraged me 0:03:48.520 --> 0:03:53.040 to be okay with your You're going to love this book, 0:03:53.120 --> 0:03:55.840 to be okay with you know my face that you know, 0:03:55.920 --> 0:03:58.560 my straight brown hair, I want to blonde, and you know, 0:03:58.640 --> 0:03:59.880 beautiful eyebrows like yours. 0:04:00.280 --> 0:04:01.160 And flat chest. 0:04:01.280 --> 0:04:02.920 There was a picture of you in the Scuola book 0:04:02.960 --> 0:04:04.680 and you're a child, and so of course you have 0:04:04.680 --> 0:04:08.440 a flat chest. So but I was encouraged because my 0:04:08.520 --> 0:04:11.560 flat chest stayed a really long time, in fact to 0:04:11.680 --> 0:04:15.520 this day. But anyhow, while for you later on, you know, 0:04:15.560 --> 0:04:17.640 it has all these different things, for me, it was 0:04:17.839 --> 0:04:21.040 such a pure way to look at the body and 0:04:21.120 --> 0:04:23.560 be proud of you, just as you are, flat chested, 0:04:23.640 --> 0:04:26.440 a child whatever, with broad shoulders. So to me, your whole, 0:04:26.720 --> 0:04:31.200 your whole picture brought about the only self love, honestly, 0:04:31.320 --> 0:04:34.080 I could feel about my body because I was so 0:04:34.160 --> 0:04:36.240 detached from it too, because I was so busy living 0:04:36.279 --> 0:04:38.400 up to a mean baby that could be cleverly mean. 0:04:38.640 --> 0:04:41.040 But you know, it's interesting because when you talk about 0:04:41.120 --> 0:04:44.920 labels being sticky, and you say labels are sticky, and 0:04:45.160 --> 0:04:47.640 you know, we start with our mothers. Oh that's my 0:04:47.720 --> 0:04:51.200 athletic one, Oh that's my arty one, and we don't 0:04:51.279 --> 0:04:54.960 think that they have an affect, but they actually can 0:04:55.040 --> 0:04:58.960 really have an enduring kind of affect on a person 0:04:59.040 --> 0:05:01.719 on the way they go forwar forward in the world. 0:05:02.080 --> 0:05:04.719 Right, it seems unavoidable almost, you know. It is just 0:05:04.800 --> 0:05:07.760 a thing that parents probably do all the time. But yes, 0:05:07.880 --> 0:05:09.440 my mom had a vision for me to be you 0:05:09.520 --> 0:05:12.240 or Gwyneth Peltrow type of thing. Your mom had a 0:05:12.240 --> 0:05:14.680 big it really was. She was like, just get tall 0:05:14.720 --> 0:05:18.760 and beautiful. But anyhow, you had you having this documentary 0:05:19.520 --> 0:05:21.240 come out, and I did watch it because of course 0:05:21.320 --> 0:05:24.760 I'm still a brook you know, like fandom queen. 0:05:24.880 --> 0:05:27.360 But it was amazing this. 0:05:27.920 --> 0:05:30.480 I mean, you already born pretty, so it was a 0:05:30.520 --> 0:05:32.200 self fulfilling prophecy no matter what. 0:05:32.520 --> 0:05:34.719 Like that you were pretty baby, and that stuck with you. 0:05:35.160 --> 0:05:36.919 Did it bother you when you were little? Like did 0:05:37.000 --> 0:05:37.640 you notice it? 0:05:37.839 --> 0:05:41.640 What it did was it detached me entirely from my body. 0:05:41.880 --> 0:05:46.560 It detached me from my face. Wow, And it just 0:05:46.720 --> 0:05:51.279 meant I was nothing but that, And so I became 0:05:51.440 --> 0:05:57.240 vigilant in nurturing everything else that wasn't connected to looking 0:05:57.279 --> 0:05:57.960 a certain way. 0:05:58.400 --> 0:05:58.600 You know. 0:05:58.680 --> 0:06:02.200 But I'm really curious about you. What was your personal 0:06:02.240 --> 0:06:05.960 relationship with beauty as a child? 0:06:07.240 --> 0:06:10.320 I didn't think about it as a really little one. 0:06:10.360 --> 0:06:12.440 I remember not thinking about it when I was like 0:06:12.680 --> 0:06:14.800 two and a half or three, when I started having 0:06:14.839 --> 0:06:16.839 memories and I was kind of looked like a boy 0:06:16.920 --> 0:06:18.760 and people call me Blair, and I kind of didn't. 0:06:18.920 --> 0:06:21.520 I just didn't have that sense of femininity or looking 0:06:21.560 --> 0:06:25.400 in the mirror. Maybe I didn't reach the mirror, so 0:06:25.520 --> 0:06:27.839 I don't remember thinking anything. And then I remember in 0:06:27.920 --> 0:06:31.280 kindergarten I really wanted to wear dresses, but people made 0:06:31.279 --> 0:06:31.600 fun of me. 0:06:31.640 --> 0:06:32.360 I was still a boy. 0:06:32.440 --> 0:06:36.200 And it wasn't until honestly that I saw your book 0:06:36.279 --> 0:06:39.160 because I had really thick eyebrows and people would make 0:06:39.160 --> 0:06:41.800 fun of me a little, nothing horrible, but definitely a little. 0:06:42.000 --> 0:06:45.839 And my mom got me your book, and that, really, 0:06:46.200 --> 0:06:50.400 funnily enough, introduced me to beauty and what I thought 0:06:50.880 --> 0:06:54.000 would be amazing to look like and act like your grace. 0:06:54.120 --> 0:06:57.520 Really, I don't say this to be a sycophant to you. 0:06:57.560 --> 0:06:59.960 I say this because it is amazing that your experien 0:07:00.000 --> 0:07:03.800 sperience for you is so different than your experience for me. 0:07:04.080 --> 0:07:08.359 That's so touching for me to hear, because to me 0:07:09.000 --> 0:07:12.120 there was arrogance and everything you know, why would I be. 0:07:12.520 --> 0:07:16.240 Who's to say? It's so layered too, your mom buying 0:07:16.280 --> 0:07:19.680 you that book, and you the person in your book, 0:07:19.680 --> 0:07:21.640 and I loved your book and I both read it 0:07:21.680 --> 0:07:25.000 and listened to it. And we grew up with very 0:07:25.200 --> 0:07:30.320 powerful maternal figures in our lives. And when you write 0:07:30.360 --> 0:07:33.000 about your mom, I'm so interested in it because you 0:07:33.080 --> 0:07:36.520 say your mom was your first great love. 0:07:37.120 --> 0:07:38.720 I can't quite shake it either. 0:07:39.080 --> 0:07:42.480 You know it's still there, which is good, thank God, 0:07:42.720 --> 0:07:45.640 because she's my mother and you want to have that feeling. 0:07:46.280 --> 0:07:51.080 But she touched and or contaminated every part of my 0:07:51.280 --> 0:07:54.200 being just by the sake of being a mother and 0:07:54.240 --> 0:07:56.480 being the one I looked to. We're very much only 0:07:56.520 --> 0:07:57.120 at each other. 0:07:57.680 --> 0:08:02.320 She's obviously so oppressive, and I think, and she was 0:08:02.360 --> 0:08:02.800 a lawyer. 0:08:02.880 --> 0:08:06.360 She was a judge, right, She never even graduated like 0:08:06.720 --> 0:08:10.120 Bassa or or high school, and then went on to 0:08:10.160 --> 0:08:12.720 Bassa after not graduating high school, and then isn't that amazing? 0:08:12.720 --> 0:08:16.480 And then went to law school without having graduated Vassar. 0:08:16.640 --> 0:08:18.760 It was like the last and she was one of 0:08:18.760 --> 0:08:20.800 the only women in her law school. 0:08:20.800 --> 0:08:22.640 And it was only because she got married, thought she'd 0:08:22.680 --> 0:08:25.640 be a doctor's wife. He left and she had a 0:08:25.640 --> 0:08:29.040 little baby, and so she sat in her room, played solitaire, 0:08:29.120 --> 0:08:31.880 smoked cigarettes for one week, grieved, got up, applied to 0:08:31.960 --> 0:08:33.640 law school and said, fucking I'm not going to ever 0:08:33.720 --> 0:08:36.320 let anyone boss me around again. So she became a 0:08:36.360 --> 0:08:38.920 lawyer and then a judge for forty years. And she 0:08:39.080 --> 0:08:41.360 was home by dinner every night at seven. 0:08:41.200 --> 0:08:43.080 Took cook for her family. I mean, she sort of 0:08:43.120 --> 0:08:45.480 lived her life like a single mother, yea, even though 0:08:45.520 --> 0:08:46.719 she was remarried. 0:08:46.840 --> 0:08:48.880 She did, and I viewed her as that, And that's 0:08:48.880 --> 0:08:51.640 why my father was rather inconsequential for me. But I 0:08:51.720 --> 0:08:54.160 was actually thinking as day of all the things he did. 0:08:54.520 --> 0:08:56.079 You know, he put me in good schools, He did 0:08:56.080 --> 0:08:57.200 pay for schools and stuff. 0:08:57.240 --> 0:08:57.880 My mom kind of. 0:08:57.840 --> 0:08:59.839 Paid for herself and our clothes, and dad paid for 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:01.280 education in camps. 0:09:01.000 --> 0:09:01.400 And all that. 0:09:01.840 --> 0:09:04.360 But the mother is your lifeline, you know, It's the 0:09:04.480 --> 0:09:05.439 umbilical cord. 0:09:07.160 --> 0:09:09.839 It was shocking when my mother died. Did you feel 0:09:09.880 --> 0:09:10.280 that too? 0:09:11.040 --> 0:09:14.200 I watched it and I thought, if I watch it, 0:09:15.040 --> 0:09:17.520 I will believe it's true. 0:09:17.880 --> 0:09:20.320 Right, I will absorb everything I should of this and 0:09:20.360 --> 0:09:22.880 it will go through me and it will be natural. 0:09:23.280 --> 0:09:27.160 Nothing about it and I and had nothing prepared me 0:09:27.520 --> 0:09:29.400 for the I felt. 0:09:29.840 --> 0:09:31.679 I still do. I felt a drift. 0:09:32.320 --> 0:09:33.160 Were you with her? 0:09:33.679 --> 0:09:36.720 No, it was COVID. It was in the beginning of COVID. 0:09:36.760 --> 0:09:39.640 I had no idea. It was just a shock. It 0:09:39.720 --> 0:09:41.880 was the beginning of COVID. So even though my mother 0:09:41.960 --> 0:09:43.599 and I was writing the book and it just on 0:09:43.679 --> 0:09:47.640 the bone marrow transplant, and I couldn't get to her 0:09:47.800 --> 0:09:50.840 or my family or any of it, there was no closure. 0:09:50.960 --> 0:09:53.680 It's still painful to think about what we all went 0:09:53.720 --> 0:09:55.199 through and what. 0:09:55.200 --> 0:09:56.400 We all go through in life. 0:09:56.400 --> 0:09:58.880 What we all go through, it's amazing we get up 0:09:58.920 --> 0:10:00.800 the next day sometimes when I think of it, because 0:10:00.920 --> 0:10:02.520 it was the thing that would break my heart. Of 0:10:02.559 --> 0:10:05.360 course people go through much worse, but on the scale 0:10:05.360 --> 0:10:08.320 of things that break your heart and leave you with 0:10:08.400 --> 0:10:12.760 a sense of things you can't resolve, it's not being there. 0:10:13.280 --> 0:10:15.920 Where was it with your mom when she died? 0:10:16.280 --> 0:10:21.479 It was well, she started having some you know, forgetful 0:10:21.640 --> 0:10:24.080 like things were happening to her. So it got quite 0:10:24.120 --> 0:10:27.800 detached and I had to just think, she's gone already. 0:10:28.240 --> 0:10:29.280 Did she recognize you? 0:10:29.880 --> 0:10:30.360 She did? 0:10:30.400 --> 0:10:32.199 She The last time I saw her, I said, can 0:10:32.200 --> 0:10:34.120 you give me a kiss and she was like, ah no, 0:10:34.400 --> 0:10:36.120 and I was like, oh, it's her because she hated 0:10:36.160 --> 0:10:38.280 giving kisses and hugging and all I wanted was that. 0:10:39.000 --> 0:10:42.120 So she did, and she kissed me on my forehead gently, gently, 0:10:42.280 --> 0:10:44.360 and I had my sister take a picture, even though 0:10:44.400 --> 0:10:46.559 she looked awful, and she would kill me if she 0:10:46.600 --> 0:10:49.160 knew I took that picture. But it meant everything to 0:10:49.160 --> 0:10:52.720 have my mother gently kissing my hand because she never really, 0:10:52.800 --> 0:10:56.080 it'll never be enough, you know, I still turn into 0:10:56.480 --> 0:10:58.719 my mother would say, Maudelin. You know, she'd make fun 0:10:58.760 --> 0:11:02.440 of me. Oh, it's almost dot acting up that beautiful. 0:11:02.240 --> 0:11:02.960 Brilliant woman. 0:11:03.000 --> 0:11:05.800 Brookshields and audience don't want to hear you sniveling about 0:11:05.800 --> 0:11:07.160 your dead mother, you know. 0:11:07.240 --> 0:11:09.480 I mean, she was just tough. 0:11:10.120 --> 0:11:13.000 My mother would be like, keep talking about me, Just 0:11:13.080 --> 0:11:15.280 keep talking about me. Forget who you're interview got. 0:11:18.160 --> 0:11:20.480 She was worthy of it. She made a good one. 0:11:20.559 --> 0:11:23.040 But it is amazing how in perspective I've let go 0:11:23.160 --> 0:11:26.600 of the things that upset me and I only want 0:11:26.600 --> 0:11:29.240 to think of love, like I really am turning to 0:11:29.320 --> 0:11:32.840 that to not consciously pivoting in my life. And I 0:11:32.880 --> 0:11:35.719 did that with my sobriety and then even more when 0:11:35.720 --> 0:11:37.960 I felt I can trust myself with the diagnosis and 0:11:38.000 --> 0:11:40.400 all those things, and so the things like mother or 0:11:40.840 --> 0:11:43.600 the pain of mother dying in COVID or all those things, 0:11:43.640 --> 0:11:47.960 I just I just look at classrooms now, you know things. 0:11:48.000 --> 0:11:50.000 I guess I need it, or I needed so I 0:11:50.040 --> 0:11:51.000 could help someone else. 0:11:58.559 --> 0:12:00.920 Looking back, I was really shocked when I read your book, 0:12:00.960 --> 0:12:03.560 because I had just no idea that you were struggling 0:12:03.559 --> 0:12:06.960 in your personal life. You were a household name, but 0:12:07.040 --> 0:12:08.880 you were never tabloid fodder. 0:12:09.000 --> 0:12:11.720 No. I was always a loner. 0:12:12.080 --> 0:12:15.199 You know, I'm a loner that talks a lot when 0:12:15.200 --> 0:12:18.520 I'm out in public. But also because I was a drinker, 0:12:19.559 --> 0:12:21.319 I knew I couldn't control it because I had done 0:12:21.360 --> 0:12:23.320 it very young and knew I would get myself in 0:12:23.360 --> 0:12:24.080 bad situation. 0:12:24.280 --> 0:12:25.880 So by the time I was. 0:12:25.840 --> 0:12:29.120 Grown enough to have moved here, I really didn't go 0:12:29.720 --> 0:12:31.040 out and drink much. 0:12:31.480 --> 0:12:32.840 That happened like once. 0:12:32.840 --> 0:12:37.600 To drink alone, I drank. That's a very good alcoholic. 0:12:37.800 --> 0:12:39.439 You were a very good alcoholic. 0:12:39.800 --> 0:12:42.360 I was a purist. I was a purist was. 0:12:42.840 --> 0:12:47.319 A true meaning of functioning alcoholic because it never interfered 0:12:47.440 --> 0:12:48.560 with right. 0:12:48.720 --> 0:12:52.959 I'm sure I could have chosen like better made better choices, 0:12:53.000 --> 0:12:55.680 and I could have had maybe a less complicated life 0:12:55.720 --> 0:12:57.559 if I didn't have drinking. But then I also think 0:12:57.600 --> 0:13:00.200 would I have survived it because I was also I 0:13:00.240 --> 0:13:02.280 thought so depressive. I have no idea if it was 0:13:02.400 --> 0:13:04.240 m as fatigue or depression. It's hard to have a 0:13:04.360 --> 0:13:07.200 vocabulary for what you don't know you are. It's just 0:13:07.280 --> 0:13:10.439 like a low, so I don't know. I never really 0:13:11.280 --> 0:13:14.400 knew what I was feeling. The drinking definitely masked physical 0:13:14.400 --> 0:13:15.520 and emotional just so I. 0:13:15.440 --> 0:13:16.280 Could bear life. 0:13:16.440 --> 0:13:17.360 So it was a crutch. 0:13:17.600 --> 0:13:19.200 It was a crutch, It was a life raft. 0:13:19.240 --> 0:13:22.040 It was saving me until I not stop and I 0:13:22.200 --> 0:13:26.880 was not engaging normally and going through things in real time. 0:13:27.040 --> 0:13:29.840 But you said you started at seven years old. What 0:13:30.840 --> 0:13:34.520 crutch do you think you needed at seven to start 0:13:34.600 --> 0:13:35.640 sipping all the drinks? 0:13:36.240 --> 0:13:41.720 I remember feeling shame at age three about what shame 0:13:41.840 --> 0:13:45.400 because I didn't had to do with In preschool, I 0:13:45.520 --> 0:13:49.480 was spanked by the teacher because I was didn't clean 0:13:49.559 --> 0:13:51.640 something up that wasn't mine, blah blah blah, and I 0:13:51.720 --> 0:13:53.920 was and I stood up for myself and she put 0:13:53.960 --> 0:13:57.559 me over her lap, and she repeatedly hit me as 0:13:57.600 --> 0:13:59.959 I cried, I'm sad, I'm sad, because I had an 0:14:00.280 --> 0:14:01.960 that said what I said, what do I say if 0:14:02.000 --> 0:14:04.320 I feel like I don't want to go on? 0:14:04.440 --> 0:14:05.600 And she said, you have to tell people. 0:14:05.679 --> 0:14:08.040 If you're sad, you tell people, And so I took 0:14:08.080 --> 0:14:10.640 her advice, and in that moment of panic, I you know, 0:14:10.679 --> 0:14:12.640 as she was slapping me and through my tears at 0:14:12.679 --> 0:14:14.040 the other kids, I said, I'm. 0:14:13.880 --> 0:14:19.400 Sad, I'm sad, and she didn't stop. And it puts 0:14:19.640 --> 0:14:21.080 such a distrust in the world. 0:14:21.160 --> 0:14:23.120 And then when I started getting sick or losing my 0:14:23.160 --> 0:14:24.880 eyesight and they couldn't see it because it was a 0:14:24.920 --> 0:14:28.480 brain thing, and that was also distrust in myself because 0:14:28.520 --> 0:14:31.520 they were saying, it's it's she's I don't know why 0:14:31.560 --> 0:14:35.280 she's so sensitive. So those two things made me very 0:14:35.320 --> 0:14:37.440 afraid of the world at a very young age. I 0:14:37.480 --> 0:14:40.920 was sensitive person, I guess, and I was terrified. So 0:14:41.080 --> 0:14:43.560 that drink at age seven of not feeling I told 0:14:43.560 --> 0:14:46.000 trust myself, not believed what I said, or it wouldn't 0:14:46.000 --> 0:14:48.560 be heard, or you know, life moved fast. I was 0:14:48.600 --> 0:14:50.960 one of four kids. I was sensitive. Maybe I had 0:14:50.960 --> 0:14:53.080 an asshole of a teacher. It was a different time. 0:14:53.200 --> 0:14:55.800 I didn't know how to say things in the right 0:14:55.840 --> 0:14:59.840 tone of voice. I have no idea, but I have. 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:03.520 I had an emotionally hard time for whatever reason, and 0:15:04.480 --> 0:15:08.720 I didn't trust myself, and the drinking was a huge self. 0:15:08.520 --> 0:15:11.920 Well, nobody was allowing you. They weren't validating any of 0:15:11.960 --> 0:15:12.840 your emotions. 0:15:12.920 --> 0:15:13.160 Right. 0:15:13.200 --> 0:15:16.760 Do you remember when you like, when you first started 0:15:16.920 --> 0:15:21.120 what you now know is juvenile MS. 0:15:21.600 --> 0:15:23.720 It was probably when I was like six or seven, 0:15:23.960 --> 0:15:26.720 and it was an optical the writis issue, but that 0:15:26.800 --> 0:15:27.600 was never looked into. 0:15:27.640 --> 0:15:28.880 It's just called a lazy eye. 0:15:28.880 --> 0:15:30.960 But then once we did other tesla and then I 0:15:30.960 --> 0:15:33.040 had optical the writis again at twenty three, and it 0:15:33.120 --> 0:15:37.800 was always my symptoms of MS, whether it was pre 0:15:37.920 --> 0:15:39.600 dromal or whatever is called. 0:15:39.600 --> 0:15:42.440 Whatever it was, it was very similar and optical the writis. 0:15:42.480 --> 0:15:44.840 And I just I was not believed, and I lost 0:15:44.880 --> 0:15:48.040 bladder function and things were happening, and alosh dan los 0:15:48.080 --> 0:15:50.680 and so a kidney kind of fell and things were 0:15:50.720 --> 0:15:53.800 happening that just were showing I was having a struggle, 0:15:54.360 --> 0:15:56.840 you know, with my nervous system and stuff. 0:15:57.200 --> 0:15:59.680 What's striking to me how long you had it? 0:16:00.200 --> 0:16:02.320 I know, and if I were a boy, I do 0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:05.160 believe there was one doctor, and it was after I 0:16:05.200 --> 0:16:08.040 had It was actually my eye doctor, of all things, 0:16:08.080 --> 0:16:13.040 but it was he after I had overdosed from extreme 0:16:13.160 --> 0:16:16.120 grief about something. I was put in my first rehab 0:16:16.320 --> 0:16:19.200 at twenty on my twenty third birthday, and I got 0:16:19.240 --> 0:16:22.760 sober for the first time. But the my father, Elliott, 0:16:22.960 --> 0:16:25.040 took me to go get like, while you're in town 0:16:25.240 --> 0:16:26.840 from New York, let's get your appointments. 0:16:26.880 --> 0:16:27.880 And I went to the eye doctor. 0:16:27.920 --> 0:16:30.080 I was twitching and having all these ticks, which I'd 0:16:30.080 --> 0:16:33.520 never had this long, and these things from this episode 0:16:33.680 --> 0:16:37.320 of this overdose caused a little bit of brain trauma, 0:16:37.400 --> 0:16:41.880 and the eye doctor, after looking in my eye, just said, 0:16:42.400 --> 0:16:43.760 do you have MS? 0:16:44.440 --> 0:16:44.640 You know? 0:16:44.720 --> 0:16:46.800 It was like I thought it would be something you'd know, 0:16:47.280 --> 0:16:49.400 you know, like I didn't know what MS really was, 0:16:49.440 --> 0:16:52.920 but I knew that it was maybe movement or breathing. 0:16:53.280 --> 0:16:55.040 I didn't really know, but it was like more. 0:16:54.880 --> 0:16:58.280 Extreme than anything I, you know, any doctor ever told 0:16:58.280 --> 0:16:58.680 me I had. 0:16:58.680 --> 0:17:00.320 And I was searching for a long time. 0:17:00.360 --> 0:17:03.480 I had all these you know, autoimmune issues that kind 0:17:03.480 --> 0:17:05.959 of racked up. So he said it, and then I 0:17:06.000 --> 0:17:08.760 did I went to a neurologist, but by that time 0:17:08.800 --> 0:17:11.600 that the optical the writis had faded and so he 0:17:11.640 --> 0:17:13.640 didn't see it, which happens with MS. But he never 0:17:13.640 --> 0:17:15.680 did give me an MRI, even though I also had 0:17:15.680 --> 0:17:17.720 the tics and everything. He said, oh, those are just 0:17:17.760 --> 0:17:20.280 my chronic seizures from you know, the little bit of 0:17:20.280 --> 0:17:22.240 brain damage. It'll go away as that goes away, And 0:17:22.280 --> 0:17:23.920 it's like, oh my god, they were such clear signs 0:17:23.920 --> 0:17:24.399 of MSS. 0:17:24.440 --> 0:17:26.000 I mean, how do you think things would have been 0:17:26.000 --> 0:17:28.920 different if you had gotten the diagnose earlier. 0:17:29.200 --> 0:17:31.720 I think my emotional state would have been a lot 0:17:31.800 --> 0:17:35.560 stronger because I would have had some realization that I 0:17:35.560 --> 0:17:38.840 could trust myself, that I could get back into my body, 0:17:39.000 --> 0:17:41.440 that there'd be a way to sort through this kind 0:17:41.440 --> 0:17:45.119 of distance I had for myself because I was scared 0:17:45.160 --> 0:17:47.600 and didn't trust myself. I thought, well, I'm just hyper sensitive, 0:17:47.640 --> 0:17:49.280 So that would have done something for me. It would 0:17:49.320 --> 0:17:52.320 have probably saved a couple of years of grief in 0:17:52.320 --> 0:17:52.720 my life. 0:17:52.720 --> 0:17:53.840 But I don't know if I was ready. 0:17:53.840 --> 0:17:56.440 I wasn't ready, I guess, because I think they would 0:17:56.440 --> 0:17:59.320 have considered a very harsh diagnosis. Then I might not 0:17:59.400 --> 0:18:01.600 have gone on this same way and I was still drinking. 0:18:01.880 --> 0:18:04.280 How many times did it take you? I say this 0:18:04.320 --> 0:18:07.640 because my mother was in rehab three or four times, 0:18:07.760 --> 0:18:11.280 arrested a couple of times, and never got sober. But 0:18:11.400 --> 0:18:16.360 whenever I hear and see a story of sobriety and 0:18:16.400 --> 0:18:18.480 the work that it takes every day, I know that 0:18:18.640 --> 0:18:21.880 and it's forever. But when I look at the years 0:18:21.960 --> 0:18:27.159 of sobriety, I'm in such awe of what place you 0:18:27.240 --> 0:18:29.280 had to get to to get there? How many times 0:18:29.280 --> 0:18:29.800 did it take? 0:18:30.040 --> 0:18:31.080 I am too. 0:18:31.600 --> 0:18:35.000 I'm so grateful that I'm not, you know, gone, because 0:18:35.000 --> 0:18:37.119 I have a son and there's things now that I 0:18:37.160 --> 0:18:39.359 have a different perspective on life, and I'm very grateful 0:18:39.400 --> 0:18:39.800 I'm here. 0:18:39.840 --> 0:18:41.679 But it took me. 0:18:42.840 --> 0:18:48.000 God, I started with attempted, like real ways to hurt myself, 0:18:48.080 --> 0:18:50.159 like very young too, So I got in that mode 0:18:50.280 --> 0:18:54.879 and I didn't build the other stuff, you know, positive affirmations. 0:18:54.240 --> 0:18:55.000 And kept going down. 0:18:55.000 --> 0:18:57.679 So I'd say that my first real sobriety was at 0:18:57.720 --> 0:19:00.000 that twenty three and it was only like a few years. 0:19:01.160 --> 0:19:03.000