1 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:06,080 Speaker 1: What do you do when life doesn't go according to 2 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:09,760 Speaker 1: plan that moment you lose a job, or a loved one, 3 00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:14,120 Speaker 1: or even a piece of yourself. I'm Brookshields and this 4 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:18,759 Speaker 1: is now What, a podcast about pivotal moments as told 5 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:21,600 Speaker 1: by people who lived them. Each week, I sit down 6 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: with a guest to talk about the times they were 7 00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 1: knocked off course and what they did to move forward. 8 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:33,080 Speaker 1: Some stories are funny, others are gut wrenching, but all 9 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:38,320 Speaker 1: are unapologetically human and remind us that every success and 10 00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:42,839 Speaker 1: every setback is accompanied by a choice, and that choice 11 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 1: answers one question. Now, what what title do you wear now? 12 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:51,880 Speaker 1: With pride? 13 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:53,880 Speaker 2: I think it's I think it is. 14 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 1: Kind and only a truly deeply kind person would adopt 15 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 1: dog with one eye AM name him Wink. 16 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:06,200 Speaker 2: Oh my god, thank you. I loved Wink. Wink is 17 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:07,400 Speaker 2: still my soul dog. 18 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:12,360 Speaker 1: I remember seeing you with Wink and thinking how cool 19 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 1: that somebody is like that. 20 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:18,959 Speaker 3: It was my first lesson in like disability and turning 21 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:20,959 Speaker 3: it us ahead to be like kind of a strange. 22 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:23,800 Speaker 3: I just seriously, I know that sounds so silly, but 23 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:26,120 Speaker 3: it was like people at the time were really freaked 24 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 3: out by this one. I dog like I'd see reactions. 25 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 1: We were outside at a restaurant and I was like, oh, 26 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:33,679 Speaker 1: Someunma was just so happy. And then you were like, 27 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:38,120 Speaker 1: I see the dog you go this is Wink And 28 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, I couldn't love you more. 29 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:43,280 Speaker 1: I was like, of course his name is Wank. 30 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:44,760 Speaker 2: Thank you. You know. 31 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:47,480 Speaker 3: Gammero del Toro even named a character Wink and hell 32 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:49,559 Speaker 3: Boy two, so it inspired the greats. 33 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 2: Guamo Brooke liked it. 34 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:58,040 Speaker 1: My guest today is Selma Blair. She's a brilliant actor, 35 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 1: a mom, an advocate, and an author. She's also remarkably 36 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:07,080 Speaker 1: kind and self reflective, traits that are rare in life 37 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:10,600 Speaker 1: and even more so in Hollywood. Selma's had a long 38 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 1: career on both stage and screen, which has been marked 39 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:18,959 Speaker 1: by blockbuster success in films like Cruel Intentions, Legally Blonde, 40 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 1: and a Hellboy. In twenty eighteen, she announced that she 41 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:25,960 Speaker 1: was diagnosed with MS, which was a disease that she 42 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:30,399 Speaker 1: had unknowingly struggled with for many years, and since then 43 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:35,640 Speaker 1: she's chronicled her experience in her documentary Introducing Selma Blair. 44 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 1: She's participated in Dancing with the Stars and She's penned 45 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 1: her book Mean Baby, which is one of the best 46 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:48,520 Speaker 1: memoirs I've ever read. I'm really thrilled that she agreed 47 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:52,040 Speaker 1: to do this show. Here is Selma Blair. 48 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:58,679 Speaker 2: Hi, Oh god, dear Brookshoes. 49 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:02,360 Speaker 1: Is that my book? How long have you had the 50 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:03,720 Speaker 1: Brook Book? That's crazy? 51 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:04,840 Speaker 2: I don't know, I don't know. 52 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 1: Oh my god, but yeah, that's wild. 53 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:08,959 Speaker 2: You that Oh my god. 54 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:11,800 Speaker 3: No, it had like a library card saying it's mine. 55 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 3: And I wrote Selma Blair because I knew one day 56 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:18,520 Speaker 3: I would be Selma Blair, not Blair Blow. It's the 57 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 3: Brook Book and it was put out in nineteen seventy eight, 58 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:24,240 Speaker 3: and I got it, you know, at about that age. 59 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 2: I was born in seventy two, and. 60 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:29,760 Speaker 3: It was it has photographs of you and they're all 61 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 3: obviously unbelievably beautiful, and it's like, you know, a little 62 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:35,280 Speaker 3: documentary book. And it was so precious to me. And 63 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:38,320 Speaker 3: I didn't have many things, truly. I only had a 64 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:41,200 Speaker 3: couple of things. Had a book, Grease, the movie this, 65 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 3: you know, there were a couple of things that I had. 66 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:44,920 Speaker 1: Did your mom buy you that book? 67 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 3: Yes, she bought me this book, and she encouraged me 68 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 3: to be okay with your You're going to love this book, 69 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:55,840 Speaker 3: to be okay with you know my face that you know, 70 00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 3: my straight brown hair, I want to blonde, and you know, 71 00:03:58,640 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 3: beautiful eyebrows like yours. 72 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 2: And flat chest. 73 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:02,920 Speaker 3: There was a picture of you in the Scuola book 74 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 3: and you're a child, and so of course you have 75 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 3: a flat chest. So but I was encouraged because my 76 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 3: flat chest stayed a really long time, in fact to 77 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 3: this day. But anyhow, while for you later on, you know, 78 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 3: it has all these different things, for me, it was 79 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:21,040 Speaker 3: such a pure way to look at the body and 80 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:23,560 Speaker 3: be proud of you, just as you are, flat chested, 81 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 3: a child whatever, with broad shoulders. So to me, your whole, 82 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:31,200 Speaker 3: your whole picture brought about the only self love, honestly, 83 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:34,080 Speaker 3: I could feel about my body because I was so 84 00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 3: detached from it too, because I was so busy living 85 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 3: up to a mean baby that could be cleverly mean. 86 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:41,040 Speaker 1: But you know, it's interesting because when you talk about 87 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:44,920 Speaker 1: labels being sticky, and you say labels are sticky, and 88 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 1: you know, we start with our mothers. Oh that's my 89 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 1: athletic one, Oh that's my arty one, and we don't 90 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 1: think that they have an affect, but they actually can 91 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:58,960 Speaker 1: really have an enduring kind of affect on a person 92 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:01,719 Speaker 1: on the way they go forwar forward in the world. 93 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:04,719 Speaker 3: Right, it seems unavoidable almost, you know. It is just 94 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 3: a thing that parents probably do all the time. But yes, 95 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:09,440 Speaker 3: my mom had a vision for me to be you 96 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:12,240 Speaker 3: or Gwyneth Peltrow type of thing. Your mom had a 97 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 3: big it really was. She was like, just get tall 98 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 3: and beautiful. But anyhow, you had you having this documentary 99 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 3: come out, and I did watch it because of course 100 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 3: I'm still a brook you know, like fandom queen. 101 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:27,360 Speaker 2: But it was amazing this. 102 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:30,480 Speaker 3: I mean, you already born pretty, so it was a 103 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 3: self fulfilling prophecy no matter what. 104 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:34,719 Speaker 2: Like that you were pretty baby, and that stuck with you. 105 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:36,919 Speaker 2: Did it bother you when you were little? Like did 106 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 2: you notice it? 107 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:41,640 Speaker 1: What it did was it detached me entirely from my body. 108 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:46,560 Speaker 1: It detached me from my face. Wow, And it just 109 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:51,279 Speaker 1: meant I was nothing but that, And so I became 110 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:57,240 Speaker 1: vigilant in nurturing everything else that wasn't connected to looking 111 00:05:57,279 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 1: a certain way. 112 00:05:58,400 --> 00:05:58,600 Speaker 2: You know. 113 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 1: But I'm really curious about you. What was your personal 114 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 1: relationship with beauty as a child? 115 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 3: I didn't think about it as a really little one. 116 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:12,440 Speaker 3: I remember not thinking about it when I was like 117 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:14,800 Speaker 3: two and a half or three, when I started having 118 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:16,839 Speaker 3: memories and I was kind of looked like a boy 119 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:18,760 Speaker 3: and people call me Blair, and I kind of didn't. 120 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 3: I just didn't have that sense of femininity or looking 121 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 3: in the mirror. Maybe I didn't reach the mirror, so 122 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:27,839 Speaker 3: I don't remember thinking anything. And then I remember in 123 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:31,280 Speaker 3: kindergarten I really wanted to wear dresses, but people made 124 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:31,600 Speaker 3: fun of me. 125 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:32,360 Speaker 2: I was still a boy. 126 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:36,200 Speaker 3: And it wasn't until honestly that I saw your book 127 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:39,160 Speaker 3: because I had really thick eyebrows and people would make 128 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:41,800 Speaker 3: fun of me a little, nothing horrible, but definitely a little. 129 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:45,839 Speaker 3: And my mom got me your book, and that, really, 130 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 3: funnily enough, introduced me to beauty and what I thought 131 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 3: would be amazing to look like and act like your grace. 132 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 2: Really, I don't say this to be a sycophant to you. 133 00:06:57,560 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 3: I say this because it is amazing that your experien 134 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 3: sperience for you is so different than your experience for me. 135 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:08,359 Speaker 1: That's so touching for me to hear, because to me 136 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 1: there was arrogance and everything you know, why would I be. 137 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:16,240 Speaker 1: Who's to say? It's so layered too, your mom buying 138 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:19,680 Speaker 1: you that book, and you the person in your book, 139 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:21,640 Speaker 1: and I loved your book and I both read it 140 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:25,000 Speaker 1: and listened to it. And we grew up with very 141 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:30,320 Speaker 1: powerful maternal figures in our lives. And when you write 142 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:33,000 Speaker 1: about your mom, I'm so interested in it because you 143 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 1: say your mom was your first great love. 144 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 2: I can't quite shake it either. 145 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 3: You know it's still there, which is good, thank God, 146 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:45,640 Speaker 3: because she's my mother and you want to have that feeling. 147 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 3: But she touched and or contaminated every part of my 148 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 3: being just by the sake of being a mother and 149 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 3: being the one I looked to. We're very much only 150 00:07:56,520 --> 00:07:57,120 Speaker 3: at each other. 151 00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 1: She's obviously so oppressive, and I think, and she was 152 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 1: a lawyer. 153 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 3: She was a judge, right, She never even graduated like 154 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 3: Bassa or or high school, and then went on to 155 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 3: Bassa after not graduating high school, and then isn't that amazing? 156 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:16,480 Speaker 3: And then went to law school without having graduated Vassar. 157 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 2: It was like the last and she was one of 158 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 2: the only women in her law school. 159 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 3: And it was only because she got married, thought she'd 160 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:25,640 Speaker 3: be a doctor's wife. He left and she had a 161 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:29,040 Speaker 3: little baby, and so she sat in her room, played solitaire, 162 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 3: smoked cigarettes for one week, grieved, got up, applied to 163 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 3: law school and said, fucking I'm not going to ever 164 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:36,320 Speaker 3: let anyone boss me around again. So she became a 165 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:38,920 Speaker 3: lawyer and then a judge for forty years. And she 166 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 3: was home by dinner every night at seven. 167 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:43,080 Speaker 1: Took cook for her family. I mean, she sort of 168 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:45,480 Speaker 1: lived her life like a single mother, yea, even though 169 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:46,719 Speaker 1: she was remarried. 170 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 3: She did, and I viewed her as that, And that's 171 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 3: why my father was rather inconsequential for me. But I 172 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:54,160 Speaker 3: was actually thinking as day of all the things he did. 173 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:56,079 Speaker 3: You know, he put me in good schools, He did 174 00:08:56,080 --> 00:08:57,200 Speaker 3: pay for schools and stuff. 175 00:08:57,240 --> 00:08:57,880 Speaker 2: My mom kind of. 176 00:08:57,840 --> 00:08:59,839 Speaker 3: Paid for herself and our clothes, and dad paid for 177 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 3: education in camps. 178 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 2: And all that. 179 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 1: But the mother is your lifeline, you know, It's the 180 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:05,439 Speaker 1: umbilical cord. 181 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:09,839 Speaker 2: It was shocking when my mother died. Did you feel 182 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 2: that too? 183 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:14,200 Speaker 1: I watched it and I thought, if I watch it, 184 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 1: I will believe it's true. 185 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:20,320 Speaker 3: Right, I will absorb everything I should of this and 186 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 3: it will go through me and it will be natural. 187 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 3: Nothing about it and I and had nothing prepared me 188 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 3: for the I felt. 189 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:31,679 Speaker 2: I still do. I felt a drift. 190 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 1: Were you with her? 191 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:36,720 Speaker 3: No, it was COVID. It was in the beginning of COVID. 192 00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:39,640 Speaker 3: I had no idea. It was just a shock. It 193 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 3: was the beginning of COVID. So even though my mother 194 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:43,599 Speaker 3: and I was writing the book and it just on 195 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 3: the bone marrow transplant, and I couldn't get to her 196 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:50,840 Speaker 3: or my family or any of it, there was no closure. 197 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:53,680 Speaker 3: It's still painful to think about what we all went 198 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:55,199 Speaker 3: through and what. 199 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 2: We all go through in life. 200 00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 3: What we all go through, it's amazing we get up 201 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:00,800 Speaker 3: the next day sometimes when I think of it, because 202 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:02,520 Speaker 3: it was the thing that would break my heart. Of 203 00:10:02,559 --> 00:10:05,360 Speaker 3: course people go through much worse, but on the scale 204 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:08,320 Speaker 3: of things that break your heart and leave you with 205 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:12,760 Speaker 3: a sense of things you can't resolve, it's not being there. 206 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:15,920 Speaker 1: Where was it with your mom when she died? 207 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:21,479 Speaker 3: It was well, she started having some you know, forgetful 208 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:24,080 Speaker 3: like things were happening to her. So it got quite 209 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 3: detached and I had to just think, she's gone already. 210 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 1: Did she recognize you? 211 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:30,360 Speaker 2: She did? 212 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:32,199 Speaker 3: She The last time I saw her, I said, can 213 00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 3: you give me a kiss and she was like, ah no, 214 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:36,120 Speaker 3: and I was like, oh, it's her because she hated 215 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 3: giving kisses and hugging and all I wanted was that. 216 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:42,120 Speaker 3: So she did, and she kissed me on my forehead gently, gently, 217 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 3: and I had my sister take a picture, even though 218 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:46,559 Speaker 3: she looked awful, and she would kill me if she 219 00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 3: knew I took that picture. But it meant everything to 220 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:52,720 Speaker 3: have my mother gently kissing my hand because she never really, 221 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:56,080 Speaker 3: it'll never be enough, you know, I still turn into 222 00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:58,719 Speaker 3: my mother would say, Maudelin. You know, she'd make fun 223 00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:02,440 Speaker 3: of me. Oh, it's almost dot acting up that beautiful. 224 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:02,960 Speaker 2: Brilliant woman. 225 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:05,800 Speaker 3: Brookshields and audience don't want to hear you sniveling about 226 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:07,160 Speaker 3: your dead mother, you know. 227 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:09,480 Speaker 2: I mean, she was just tough. 228 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 1: My mother would be like, keep talking about me, Just 229 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 1: keep talking about me. Forget who you're interview got. 230 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:20,480 Speaker 2: She was worthy of it. She made a good one. 231 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 3: But it is amazing how in perspective I've let go 232 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:26,600 Speaker 3: of the things that upset me and I only want 233 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:29,240 Speaker 3: to think of love, like I really am turning to 234 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:32,840 Speaker 3: that to not consciously pivoting in my life. And I 235 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:35,719 Speaker 3: did that with my sobriety and then even more when 236 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:37,960 Speaker 3: I felt I can trust myself with the diagnosis and 237 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 3: all those things, and so the things like mother or 238 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:43,600 Speaker 3: the pain of mother dying in COVID or all those things, 239 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:47,960 Speaker 3: I just I just look at classrooms now, you know things. 240 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:50,000 Speaker 2: I guess I need it, or I needed so I 241 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 2: could help someone else. 242 00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 1: Looking back, I was really shocked when I read your book, 243 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:03,560 Speaker 1: because I had just no idea that you were struggling 244 00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:06,960 Speaker 1: in your personal life. You were a household name, but 245 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 1: you were never tabloid fodder. 246 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:11,720 Speaker 2: No. I was always a loner. 247 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:15,199 Speaker 3: You know, I'm a loner that talks a lot when 248 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:18,520 Speaker 3: I'm out in public. But also because I was a drinker, 249 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:21,319 Speaker 3: I knew I couldn't control it because I had done 250 00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:23,320 Speaker 3: it very young and knew I would get myself in 251 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:24,080 Speaker 3: bad situation. 252 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:25,880 Speaker 2: So by the time I was. 253 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:29,120 Speaker 3: Grown enough to have moved here, I really didn't go 254 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:31,040 Speaker 3: out and drink much. 255 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:32,840 Speaker 2: That happened like once. 256 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:37,600 Speaker 1: To drink alone, I drank. That's a very good alcoholic. 257 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:39,439 Speaker 1: You were a very good alcoholic. 258 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:42,360 Speaker 2: I was a purist. I was a purist was. 259 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:47,319 Speaker 1: A true meaning of functioning alcoholic because it never interfered 260 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:48,560 Speaker 1: with right. 261 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:52,959 Speaker 3: I'm sure I could have chosen like better made better choices, 262 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:55,680 Speaker 3: and I could have had maybe a less complicated life 263 00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:57,559 Speaker 3: if I didn't have drinking. But then I also think 264 00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:00,200 Speaker 3: would I have survived it because I was also I 265 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:02,280 Speaker 3: thought so depressive. I have no idea if it was 266 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:04,240 Speaker 3: m as fatigue or depression. It's hard to have a 267 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:07,200 Speaker 3: vocabulary for what you don't know you are. It's just 268 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:10,439 Speaker 3: like a low, so I don't know. I never really 269 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:14,400 Speaker 3: knew what I was feeling. The drinking definitely masked physical 270 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 3: and emotional just so I. 271 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:16,280 Speaker 2: Could bear life. 272 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:17,360 Speaker 1: So it was a crutch. 273 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:19,200 Speaker 2: It was a crutch, It was a life raft. 274 00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 3: It was saving me until I not stop and I 275 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:26,880 Speaker 3: was not engaging normally and going through things in real time. 276 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:29,840 Speaker 1: But you said you started at seven years old. What 277 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 1: crutch do you think you needed at seven to start 278 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:35,640 Speaker 1: sipping all the drinks? 279 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:41,720 Speaker 3: I remember feeling shame at age three about what shame 280 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:45,400 Speaker 3: because I didn't had to do with In preschool, I 281 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:49,480 Speaker 3: was spanked by the teacher because I was didn't clean 282 00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:51,640 Speaker 3: something up that wasn't mine, blah blah blah, and I 283 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 3: was and I stood up for myself and she put 284 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:57,559 Speaker 3: me over her lap, and she repeatedly hit me as 285 00:13:57,600 --> 00:13:59,959 Speaker 3: I cried, I'm sad, I'm sad, because I had an 286 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:01,960 Speaker 3: that said what I said, what do I say if 287 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:04,320 Speaker 3: I feel like I don't want to go on? 288 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:05,600 Speaker 2: And she said, you have to tell people. 289 00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:08,040 Speaker 3: If you're sad, you tell people, And so I took 290 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 3: her advice, and in that moment of panic, I you know, 291 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:12,640 Speaker 3: as she was slapping me and through my tears at 292 00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 3: the other kids, I said, I'm. 293 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:19,400 Speaker 2: Sad, I'm sad, and she didn't stop. And it puts 294 00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:21,080 Speaker 2: such a distrust in the world. 295 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 3: And then when I started getting sick or losing my 296 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:24,880 Speaker 3: eyesight and they couldn't see it because it was a 297 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:28,480 Speaker 3: brain thing, and that was also distrust in myself because 298 00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:31,520 Speaker 3: they were saying, it's it's she's I don't know why 299 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:35,280 Speaker 3: she's so sensitive. So those two things made me very 300 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:37,440 Speaker 3: afraid of the world at a very young age. I 301 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:40,920 Speaker 3: was sensitive person, I guess, and I was terrified. So 302 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:43,560 Speaker 3: that drink at age seven of not feeling I told 303 00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 3: trust myself, not believed what I said, or it wouldn't 304 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:48,560 Speaker 3: be heard, or you know, life moved fast. I was 305 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:50,960 Speaker 3: one of four kids. I was sensitive. Maybe I had 306 00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 3: an asshole of a teacher. It was a different time. 307 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:55,800 Speaker 3: I didn't know how to say things in the right 308 00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 3: tone of voice. I have no idea, but I have. 309 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:03,520 Speaker 3: I had an emotionally hard time for whatever reason, and 310 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:08,720 Speaker 3: I didn't trust myself, and the drinking was a huge self. 311 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:11,920 Speaker 1: Well, nobody was allowing you. They weren't validating any of 312 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:12,840 Speaker 1: your emotions. 313 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 2: Right. 314 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:16,760 Speaker 1: Do you remember when you like, when you first started 315 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 1: what you now know is juvenile MS. 316 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 3: It was probably when I was like six or seven, 317 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:26,720 Speaker 3: and it was an optical the writis issue, but that 318 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:27,600 Speaker 3: was never looked into. 319 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 2: It's just called a lazy eye. 320 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:30,960 Speaker 3: But then once we did other tesla and then I 321 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 3: had optical the writis again at twenty three, and it 322 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:37,800 Speaker 3: was always my symptoms of MS, whether it was pre 323 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:39,600 Speaker 3: dromal or whatever is called. 324 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:42,440 Speaker 2: Whatever it was, it was very similar and optical the writis. 325 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 3: And I just I was not believed, and I lost 326 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:48,040 Speaker 3: bladder function and things were happening, and alosh dan los 327 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 3: and so a kidney kind of fell and things were 328 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:53,800 Speaker 3: happening that just were showing I was having a struggle, 329 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:56,840 Speaker 3: you know, with my nervous system and stuff. 330 00:15:57,200 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 1: What's striking to me how long you had it? 331 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:02,320 Speaker 3: I know, and if I were a boy, I do 332 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:05,160 Speaker 3: believe there was one doctor, and it was after I 333 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:08,040 Speaker 3: had It was actually my eye doctor, of all things, 334 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:13,040 Speaker 3: but it was he after I had overdosed from extreme 335 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:16,120 Speaker 3: grief about something. I was put in my first rehab 336 00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:19,200 Speaker 3: at twenty on my twenty third birthday, and I got 337 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 3: sober for the first time. But the my father, Elliott, 338 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:25,040 Speaker 3: took me to go get like, while you're in town 339 00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:26,840 Speaker 3: from New York, let's get your appointments. 340 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:27,880 Speaker 2: And I went to the eye doctor. 341 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:30,080 Speaker 3: I was twitching and having all these ticks, which I'd 342 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:33,520 Speaker 3: never had this long, and these things from this episode 343 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:37,320 Speaker 3: of this overdose caused a little bit of brain trauma, 344 00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:41,880 Speaker 3: and the eye doctor, after looking in my eye, just said, 345 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:43,760 Speaker 3: do you have MS? 346 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:44,640 Speaker 2: You know? 347 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 3: It was like I thought it would be something you'd know, 348 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 3: you know, like I didn't know what MS really was, 349 00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:52,920 Speaker 3: but I knew that it was maybe movement or breathing. 350 00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:55,040 Speaker 2: I didn't really know, but it was like more. 351 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:58,280 Speaker 3: Extreme than anything I, you know, any doctor ever told 352 00:16:58,280 --> 00:16:58,680 Speaker 3: me I had. 353 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:00,320 Speaker 2: And I was searching for a long time. 354 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 3: I had all these you know, autoimmune issues that kind 355 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:05,959 Speaker 3: of racked up. So he said it, and then I 356 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:08,760 Speaker 3: did I went to a neurologist, but by that time 357 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:11,600 Speaker 3: that the optical the writis had faded and so he 358 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:13,640 Speaker 3: didn't see it, which happens with MS. But he never 359 00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:15,680 Speaker 3: did give me an MRI, even though I also had 360 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:17,720 Speaker 3: the tics and everything. He said, oh, those are just 361 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:20,280 Speaker 3: my chronic seizures from you know, the little bit of 362 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:22,240 Speaker 3: brain damage. It'll go away as that goes away, And 363 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:23,920 Speaker 3: it's like, oh my god, they were such clear signs 364 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:24,399 Speaker 3: of MSS. 365 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:26,000 Speaker 1: I mean, how do you think things would have been 366 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:28,920 Speaker 1: different if you had gotten the diagnose earlier. 367 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:31,720 Speaker 3: I think my emotional state would have been a lot 368 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:35,560 Speaker 3: stronger because I would have had some realization that I 369 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:38,840 Speaker 3: could trust myself, that I could get back into my body, 370 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:41,440 Speaker 3: that there'd be a way to sort through this kind 371 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:45,119 Speaker 3: of distance I had for myself because I was scared 372 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:47,600 Speaker 3: and didn't trust myself. I thought, well, I'm just hyper sensitive, 373 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:49,280 Speaker 3: So that would have done something for me. It would 374 00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:52,320 Speaker 3: have probably saved a couple of years of grief in 375 00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:52,720 Speaker 3: my life. 376 00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:53,840 Speaker 2: But I don't know if I was ready. 377 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:56,440 Speaker 3: I wasn't ready, I guess, because I think they would 378 00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:59,320 Speaker 3: have considered a very harsh diagnosis. Then I might not 379 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:01,600 Speaker 3: have gone on this same way and I was still drinking. 380 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:04,280 Speaker 1: How many times did it take you? I say this 381 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:07,640 Speaker 1: because my mother was in rehab three or four times, 382 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:11,280 Speaker 1: arrested a couple of times, and never got sober. But 383 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:16,360 Speaker 1: whenever I hear and see a story of sobriety and 384 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:18,480 Speaker 1: the work that it takes every day, I know that 385 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:21,880 Speaker 1: and it's forever. But when I look at the years 386 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:27,159 Speaker 1: of sobriety, I'm in such awe of what place you 387 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:29,280 Speaker 1: had to get to to get there? How many times 388 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:29,800 Speaker 1: did it take? 389 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:31,080 Speaker 2: I am too. 390 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:35,000 Speaker 3: I'm so grateful that I'm not, you know, gone, because 391 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:37,119 Speaker 3: I have a son and there's things now that I 392 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:39,359 Speaker 3: have a different perspective on life, and I'm very grateful 393 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:39,800 Speaker 3: I'm here. 394 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:41,679 Speaker 2: But it took me. 395 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:48,000 Speaker 3: God, I started with attempted, like real ways to hurt myself, 396 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:50,159 Speaker 3: like very young too, So I got in that mode 397 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:54,879 Speaker 3: and I didn't build the other stuff, you know, positive affirmations. 398 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 2: And kept going down. 399 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:57,679 Speaker 3: So I'd say that my first real sobriety was at 400 00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 3: that twenty three and it was only like a few years. 401 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 2: Oh God, I must have had to get sober. I'm 402 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:04,879 Speaker 2: not joking twenty times. 403 00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:06,639 Speaker 1: Did you have a good therapist? 404 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:07,120 Speaker 2: I do. 405 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:09,840 Speaker 3: I actually have a therapist. Now, that's a huge comfort 406 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:13,120 Speaker 3: and like a lightning rod for me. But I didn't 407 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:15,560 Speaker 3: find you know, I really do for me though, I 408 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:18,280 Speaker 3: really had to go through it and no therapy was 409 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:22,159 Speaker 3: gonna help me until I understood that I actually also 410 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:26,240 Speaker 3: had something neurologically wrong with me, because I just keep 411 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:27,240 Speaker 3: beating myself up. 412 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:29,359 Speaker 1: But how did you You hit it? 413 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:29,680 Speaker 2: Though? 414 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:30,800 Speaker 1: I mean like, I don't know how. 415 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 2: But getting sober it took until I prayed. 416 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:38,320 Speaker 3: I'm not joking, but I prayed every night since I 417 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:39,040 Speaker 3: was twenty three. 418 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:41,760 Speaker 2: Please God make a miracle that I stay sober. 419 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:45,800 Speaker 3: Please God give me the dignity of my humanity to 420 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:48,439 Speaker 3: have me not die drunk. 421 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:50,359 Speaker 2: I don't know why that counted to me. 422 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:53,200 Speaker 3: I'm not saying someone's undignified if they die a drunk, 423 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:55,800 Speaker 3: but to me, I wanted to say I died in 424 00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:56,399 Speaker 3: this body. 425 00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:00,760 Speaker 2: I pray that remains the case, and every day I 426 00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:01,720 Speaker 2: will be on that. 427 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:04,360 Speaker 3: But I do feel the miracle kind of has happened 428 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:08,520 Speaker 3: of a different perspective also, where I do feel stronger 429 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:12,679 Speaker 3: in that I absolutely feel I need and want to 430 00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:14,480 Speaker 3: be sober. I didn't want to before. 431 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:23,000 Speaker 1: Part of the reason I asked you to be on 432 00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:27,359 Speaker 1: this show is that I think you are such an inspiration. 433 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:28,480 Speaker 2: Oh thank you. 434 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:32,080 Speaker 1: I mean dancing with the Stars, I can't even. 435 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:33,240 Speaker 2: It was terrifying to me. 436 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:36,080 Speaker 3: I never wanted to do it, never, never, never, except 437 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:37,080 Speaker 3: when you were young. 438 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:39,159 Speaker 2: You did Circus of the Stars. 439 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:44,000 Speaker 1: I did the Stars. I first trained the dogs. I 440 00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:44,760 Speaker 1: trained the dogs. 441 00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:46,760 Speaker 3: And do you know I was most I remember that, 442 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:49,560 Speaker 3: And I was most likely in my high school yearbook 443 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:53,800 Speaker 3: at Cranbrooke, Me and Todd Kessler, who's now a brilliant writer, director, 444 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:57,920 Speaker 3: truly brilliant damages all these things. He and I were 445 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:00,919 Speaker 3: voted most likely to be an circumcars And then it's like, 446 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:03,119 Speaker 3: oh my god, it I kind of manifested because that 447 00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:05,800 Speaker 3: doesn't exist anymore. But dancing with the Start is something 448 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:08,040 Speaker 3: I never wanted to do. I am not someone that 449 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:10,760 Speaker 3: has rhythm in the sweetest thing. I needed to be trained, 450 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:12,879 Speaker 3: like ten years. It felt like to just do like 451 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 3: the electric slide. 452 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:15,360 Speaker 1: So what made you say yes? 453 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 3: What made me say yes is something really horrible to 454 00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:22,520 Speaker 3: me happened in my life for a moment that I'm 455 00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:26,000 Speaker 3: now recovered from. But and I was really going back 456 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:29,399 Speaker 3: into old patterns not harming, but like the will my 457 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:32,119 Speaker 3: life force went so down with this hit, you know, 458 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:36,919 Speaker 3: this emotional hit I had. And then when Sasha, my 459 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:39,320 Speaker 3: neighbor and now friend, came to me, and he had 460 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:41,159 Speaker 3: asked a couple times through the years, come on, you 461 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:44,119 Speaker 3: want to do that, and I'm like, I never, never, 462 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:47,800 Speaker 3: don't ever ask me. And so when he did this time, 463 00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:49,520 Speaker 3: and he kind of convinced me, like, just come with 464 00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:51,879 Speaker 3: me for an hour and like, let's see how you move, 465 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:54,040 Speaker 3: Let's see if you can be taught. And I went 466 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:57,359 Speaker 3: and dancing with him, just doing like a simple like 467 00:21:57,520 --> 00:21:58,479 Speaker 3: rumba or something. 468 00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:00,960 Speaker 2: I don't know. I realized if he holding my hand 469 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:02,399 Speaker 2: and if I repeat. 470 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:05,199 Speaker 3: The step enough, I could get my step where it 471 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:07,720 Speaker 3: wasn't like dystonic if it were slow enough. And I thought, 472 00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:11,199 Speaker 3: oh wow, this hour with him felt better than the 473 00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:14,560 Speaker 3: last fifty hours of my life where I was sitting 474 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:16,800 Speaker 3: in fear. So let me get out and at least 475 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:19,800 Speaker 3: have these hours then with this person showing me something. 476 00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:22,800 Speaker 2: And it turned out to be so rewarding and beautiful. 477 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:23,960 Speaker 2: And I loved everyone on. 478 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:26,640 Speaker 1: That show, and they loved you, and the people loved you, 479 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:30,960 Speaker 1: and you looked so beautiful. Oh god, it was. 480 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:33,960 Speaker 2: I'm so touched that you say it. But we all 481 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:36,600 Speaker 2: like want to have that moment. Maybe not all of. 482 00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:38,399 Speaker 3: Us, but we all want to have some type of moment, 483 00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:41,479 Speaker 3: some type of moment that we feel we overcame something 484 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:43,639 Speaker 3: that was maybe simple to other people. 485 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:46,080 Speaker 2: So pat on the back to me. Yeah, you know 486 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:47,800 Speaker 2: for MS, because my MS is. 487 00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:51,040 Speaker 3: Very emotionally activated, the ticks and the motion and stuff. 488 00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 3: So that was a fear like, oh God, I'm gonna 489 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:55,359 Speaker 3: and I wouldn't have been able to do it without 490 00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:57,520 Speaker 3: the goodwill of the people that had been behind me 491 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:00,920 Speaker 3: in general, like rooting me on through all that I showed. 492 00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:04,440 Speaker 1: But that's a testament to you as a survivor. And 493 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:08,080 Speaker 1: I used to ping the title, but when I think 494 00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:14,840 Speaker 1: of endurance, longevity, fortitude, or forward moving like I think 495 00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:18,600 Speaker 1: of you. And I called this show now What because 496 00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:22,879 Speaker 1: it really boils down to the now what moments in 497 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:27,440 Speaker 1: our lives where we must pivot or where we are 498 00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:33,040 Speaker 1: not off balance. I think we've all had many what 499 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:37,400 Speaker 1: is a now what moment for you that stands out? 500 00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:39,640 Speaker 2: It was huge mine, now what it was? 501 00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:41,960 Speaker 3: It was one of my biggest fears other than a 502 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:44,960 Speaker 3: real tragedy was my public humiliation. 503 00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:46,679 Speaker 1: Is this on the plane? 504 00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:50,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, on the plane where you know someone had you know, 505 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:53,560 Speaker 3: where I had obviously been in huge emotional distress and 506 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:56,680 Speaker 3: a kind of blackout or pass out whatever. 507 00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:58,440 Speaker 2: You know. It's just one of those ugly moments. 508 00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:01,320 Speaker 3: Google me is what I say when, like someone offers 509 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:02,800 Speaker 3: me a drink and I'm like, no, no, I don't 510 00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:04,600 Speaker 3: I don't want one, thank you so much, and they're like. 511 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:06,720 Speaker 2: No, not really, just try it, and I'm like google me. 512 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:09,000 Speaker 2: So it was like I had it. 513 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:14,240 Speaker 3: It was like I had to immediately make that decision 514 00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:16,880 Speaker 3: once I had been in that predicament where I had 515 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:21,199 Speaker 3: been locked in the room in Mexico with you know, 516 00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:23,960 Speaker 3: kind of not a great relationship with with dad, yet 517 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:26,239 Speaker 3: with custody, like trying to make the best of it. 518 00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:28,240 Speaker 2: Didn't know I was totally in an MS. 519 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:31,320 Speaker 3: Flare, So I was way more off kilter and emotionally, 520 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:34,119 Speaker 3: you know, and I just gave up my sobriety. I 521 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:38,040 Speaker 3: had had a few years, so to know that happened 522 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:40,199 Speaker 3: on its own. Thank god we didn't have to make 523 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:42,760 Speaker 3: an emergency landing at work. Thank God I didn't, you know, 524 00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:45,480 Speaker 3: there was a nurse there. I was oxygen and things 525 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:47,119 Speaker 3: and being taken I don't remember any of it. I 526 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:50,560 Speaker 3: woke up in a taken off a stretcher, woke up 527 00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:53,119 Speaker 3: in the hospital with an IV the doctor saying, you know, 528 00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:57,520 Speaker 3: you might add a silent heart attack, and I was like, whoa, 529 00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:01,440 Speaker 3: where's my son? This is ever happened to? Like where 530 00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:03,960 Speaker 3: is my son? What happened? And it was my first 531 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:07,720 Speaker 3: ever blackout with him, of course, well maybe not, of course, 532 00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:11,000 Speaker 3: but it was and knowing it was a public humiliation, 533 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:18,920 Speaker 3: knowing that I had really really done a horrendous thing 534 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:21,520 Speaker 3: that was going to be life changing, and I made 535 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:24,600 Speaker 3: in that decision, I mean in that second, I said, 536 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:26,440 Speaker 3: your life has changed, You're done. 537 00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:28,680 Speaker 2: And I felt true apologies for disturbing. 538 00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:30,399 Speaker 3: Like a lot of things hit me in that moment, 539 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:32,720 Speaker 3: and it was like, I can't be this person. I'm 540 00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:35,160 Speaker 3: going to be sober, and you did, and I want 541 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,040 Speaker 3: to I'm interested in how you were, how you recovered. 542 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:43,320 Speaker 3: You could have also been handled with more care and 543 00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:47,800 Speaker 3: not taken advantage of by some asshole making it public. 544 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:52,920 Speaker 3: Absolutely not taking into any consideration your son, your dignity. 545 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:53,360 Speaker 2: No. 546 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:58,200 Speaker 1: It is interesting though that you that something subconscious chose 547 00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:02,640 Speaker 1: something so because you you were very good at doing 548 00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:05,800 Speaker 1: it silently. You're very good at doing it quietly. 549 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:08,480 Speaker 3: And it was a totally It was I think my 550 00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:11,120 Speaker 3: angels or whatever it is, that guy just just knows 551 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:15,240 Speaker 3: the my low could only handle a public humiliation. I 552 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:17,240 Speaker 3: could not handle if I killed someone. I could not 553 00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:21,480 Speaker 3: handle if I did something. Just so you know that, 554 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:24,600 Speaker 3: I couldn't forgive myself. I'm not saying people shouldn't if 555 00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:27,760 Speaker 3: things happened, but it was. This was my first time 556 00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:31,439 Speaker 3: being discovered. Maybe in the past boyfriends would experience me 557 00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:35,480 Speaker 3: like swearing and being like, you're a like having tantrums, 558 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:37,880 Speaker 3: like as the drunk lady that doesn't realize what they're doing. 559 00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:40,160 Speaker 3: That happened in my youth and things, and they'd write 560 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:44,639 Speaker 3: down me like swearing, but that was I never done anything. This, 561 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:46,760 Speaker 3: This was off brand even for me. Cover was blown 562 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:48,040 Speaker 3: because I only drank. 563 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:51,760 Speaker 2: My cover was fucking blown. This was my only real cover. 564 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:55,840 Speaker 3: The other ones were always suicide attempts that didn't necessarily 565 00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:57,600 Speaker 3: seem alcoholic, but they always were. 566 00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:01,240 Speaker 1: What do you think you learned about yourself since that time? 567 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:07,439 Speaker 3: Oh gosh that if I am not wasted I'm a 568 00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:12,920 Speaker 3: great person, Like I'm great enough. You know, I'm great enough, 569 00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:16,160 Speaker 3: you know. But I realize, like, oh, I can get 570 00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:21,119 Speaker 3: through like almost anything if I just say, next logical 571 00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:24,480 Speaker 3: step in how excel next logical step, I can't get 572 00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:25,840 Speaker 3: in too much trouble. 573 00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:29,520 Speaker 1: Well, Also, it's physical, it's emotional, it's mental. It's a 574 00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:32,439 Speaker 1: mental next step, it's a physical next step. It's a 575 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:33,320 Speaker 1: connection between. 576 00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:36,240 Speaker 3: I know I have a long way to go to 577 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:40,720 Speaker 3: feel comfortable in my skin in the heartache way. You know, 578 00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:43,080 Speaker 3: I carry around grief. I think a lot of people do, 579 00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:45,719 Speaker 3: and I wonder if there's a way to move forward 580 00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:48,080 Speaker 3: with really like learning to let that go if it 581 00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:49,200 Speaker 3: doesn't serve me anymore. 582 00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:51,160 Speaker 2: I don't know how to be that person. I want 583 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:51,879 Speaker 2: to find joy. 584 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:54,919 Speaker 3: I want to believe that like anything can still happen, 585 00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:56,040 Speaker 3: not just good enough. 586 00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:58,720 Speaker 1: What are you looking forward to right now? 587 00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:02,840 Speaker 2: I'm looking forward to. 588 00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:07,879 Speaker 3: Long summer nights because I can stay up longer in 589 00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:10,040 Speaker 3: the daylight, like because I get out usually once the 590 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:12,879 Speaker 3: sun's setting, you know, in my life, like out of 591 00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:15,840 Speaker 3: the house, because then I can like walk more clearly, 592 00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:18,160 Speaker 3: I get more relaxed, you know. My nervous system all 593 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:22,240 Speaker 3: that without the inflammatory properties of the sun. So to me, 594 00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:25,440 Speaker 3: this is like a whole like more productive and these 595 00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:28,440 Speaker 3: are always core memories, these summertimes, at the longer nights 596 00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:31,680 Speaker 3: when weather's kind of temperate almost everywhere. But I'm looking 597 00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:39,800 Speaker 3: forward to manifesting things. Okay, like what manifesting? Gosh, this 598 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:41,880 Speaker 3: is something I never I don't even know how to do. 599 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:43,680 Speaker 2: And this is a big thing to admit. 600 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:46,480 Speaker 3: But like love, like I've never worked on a relationship 601 00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:51,040 Speaker 3: like truly, truly thinking I deserve something, and I've always, 602 00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:53,080 Speaker 3: like my mother's always said, you'll never be with someone 603 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:54,920 Speaker 3: you're not meant to be or I'm too complicated, or 604 00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:56,560 Speaker 3: I didn't know not a compromis, or I was always 605 00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:59,200 Speaker 3: trying to please the boyfriend that always would make lists 606 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:02,600 Speaker 3: of how to be a better per or that is ridiculous. 607 00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:05,479 Speaker 3: Just choosing people that were gonna knock me down like 608 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:08,280 Speaker 3: that was obviously something you know that I was playing into. 609 00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:11,320 Speaker 1: But do you see how a list like that from 610 00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:13,680 Speaker 1: a boyfriend is about them? Yeah? 611 00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:16,720 Speaker 3: Of course, I mean, and I think I always did, 612 00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:18,600 Speaker 3: but I'd still want to please them even though it's 613 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:21,280 Speaker 3: about them, because I didn't know where i'd get my 614 00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:25,080 Speaker 3: next bit of attention paid to me, maybe like genuine attention, 615 00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:28,400 Speaker 3: believing it could be loved, Believing somewhere this person could 616 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:31,080 Speaker 3: be a big part of my life. I just had 617 00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:33,000 Speaker 3: to work through this, and now I do have a 618 00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:34,640 Speaker 3: sense of what I would actually like. 619 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:35,360 Speaker 2: But not much. 620 00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:38,080 Speaker 3: I've never thought to just manifest, like what would be 621 00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:38,880 Speaker 3: great to like? 622 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:41,920 Speaker 2: Who? What kind of person do you want in your life? 623 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:44,320 Speaker 2: I've never made that list. I never thought. I was like, 624 00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:45,480 Speaker 2: what's the point? That's gross. 625 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:47,480 Speaker 3: I don't want to chase something. You know what, I 626 00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:50,040 Speaker 3: could chase an idea, that's okay. I can chase an 627 00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:52,400 Speaker 3: idea like I'm ready. 628 00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:58,960 Speaker 1: That was Selma Blair And if you want to hear 629 00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:03,080 Speaker 1: more from her, check out her new book, Mean Baby. 630 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:09,680 Speaker 1: That's it for us today. Tune in next week now. 631 00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:13,400 Speaker 1: What with Brooke Shields is a production of iHeartRadio. Our 632 00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:17,680 Speaker 1: lead producer and wonderful showrunner is Julia Weaver. Additional research 633 00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:22,240 Speaker 1: and editing by Darby Masters and Abu Zafar. Our executive 634 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:27,280 Speaker 1: producer is Christina Everett. The show is mixed by Vahid Fraser.