Speaker 1: This is the most dramatic podcast ever and iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 1: Chris Harrison and Lauren z Ema coming to you today
Speaker 1: to talk about something we have been talking a lot
Speaker 1: about lately.
Speaker 2: We have been diving deep and it has been emotional,
Speaker 2: it has been.
Speaker 3: Sometimes fraught with peril.
Speaker 2: We've been talking a lot with our own moms lately
Speaker 2: about their love lives. My mom is in a relationship,
Speaker 2: Chris's mom is single, my mom is a widow, Chris's
Speaker 2: mom is divorced. And we've been talking about love later
Speaker 2: in life, and we might have to have our moms
Speaker 2: on at some point because I think they would tell you,
Speaker 2: oh God, what did I do before I had you
Speaker 2: to tell me how to live my life? And they
Speaker 2: would say we might be weighing in too much.
Speaker 1: We are, for sure, we are. And when I say we,
Speaker 1: but oh, you mean you think me? I think I
Speaker 1: think you think you definitely love it more than I do.
Speaker 2: I don't know if I love it more, but I
Speaker 2: think I meddle more. I think I'm a fixer. Maybe
Speaker 2: women are fixers, and I want the moms to be happy,
Speaker 2: but I mean you're a little more step aside.
Speaker 1: Well, in all seriousness, though, this is something that it's
Speaker 1: not just my mom's. There's there's someone else in my
Speaker 1: life that I love dearly. And I find it interesting
Speaker 1: when they say, look, i'm done. You know, I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't want anybody in my house. I don't want
Speaker 1: anybody in my life. I like the way, you know,
Speaker 1: things the way they are, and I want to sleep
Speaker 1: on my own bed and all this. There's a lot
Speaker 1: of issues that change as we get older, and I'm
Speaker 1: saying much older. I'm a fifty ten year old man,
Speaker 1: so we're going much older than that, and so I
Speaker 1: find it interesting to dive into these topics. And you know,
Speaker 1: we can debate this stuff all day long, but we
Speaker 1: wanted to bring on some experts to talk about this.
Speaker 2: Yes, we've you know, we've gone through in our heads
Speaker 2: like is saying I'm just ready to be alone?
Speaker 3: Is that real?
Speaker 2: Or is it just a defense mechanism. We've asked what is?
Speaker 2: You know, like, what is how can we really advise
Speaker 2: on dating to our moms even when we've never dated
Speaker 2: at that age and they have told us you don't
Speaker 2: understand what it's like. So we wanted to bring on
Speaker 2: some experts who do understand what it's like. We are
Speaker 2: joined today by the incredible doctor Gloria Horseley. She is
Speaker 2: a licensed marriage and family therapist, and doctor Frank Powers.
Speaker 3: He has a PhD.
Speaker 2: He is a licensed psychologist with a private practice. So
Speaker 2: both incredibly accomplished individuals on their own, but they are
Speaker 2: now in a relationship. And doctor Gloria is a widow
Speaker 2: herself after sixty years of marriage. She lost her husband
Speaker 2: and doctor Frank is divorced. So the two of them
Speaker 2: found each other later in life are now partners. They
Speaker 2: work together, they love each other, and they are going
Speaker 2: to join us to talk about how to find love
Speaker 2: later in life, in part because they are releasing on
Speaker 2: Valentine's Day their new book, Open to Love, the Grits
Speaker 2: of Senior Dating, were they detail how they both found
Speaker 2: this happy relationship.
Speaker 1: So Mom, get out the notebook, get out the number
Speaker 1: two pencil, Get ready to take some notes because we
Speaker 1: are diving in.
Speaker 4: Hey.
Speaker 5: Hey, we've got our People magazine here.
Speaker 2: Well, it's so nice to meet you too. Oh my gosh,
Speaker 2: we are so excited for this.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 2: We already recorded a little intro hyping you up a
Speaker 2: minute ago, so if it's okay, we'll.
Speaker 3: Dive right in.
Speaker 1: You guys are so sweet. Thank you very much. Yes,
Speaker 1: we obviously just got married. It was beautiful. But what
Speaker 1: we're talking about today is after that later, later in
Speaker 1: life is their love later. And you guys are living
Speaker 1: proof first of all that that there is. So before
Speaker 1: we talk about we have so many questions for you,
Speaker 1: talk about yourselves and how you both found love.
Speaker 3: What is story?
Speaker 5: I think I'll start with it because.
Speaker 4: So three years ago, my husband of sixty years died
Speaker 4: of staff infection after a surgery. And I'm a psychologist
Speaker 4: and I've been practicing for forty years, and I had
Speaker 4: all sorts of advice for myself, but anyway.
Speaker 6: I am following it.
Speaker 5: I got into a grief group.
Speaker 1: Of course.
Speaker 4: There I met a guy, Steve, whose wife had died
Speaker 4: two days after Phil. And he's an avid golfer and
Speaker 4: I am an avid golfer. And we just went golfing
Speaker 4: every day with this guy that all mad golfing through grief. Well,
Speaker 4: after a book months we started living together and Steve
Speaker 4: and I and then we had Christmas come and I
Speaker 4: had twenty seven family members all go to Hawaii together with.
Speaker 5: Steve and I.
Speaker 6: He ghost.
Speaker 4: And I stayed a little longer, and he sent me
Speaker 4: an email saying, you know, I can't handle this. I'm
Speaker 4: leaving the key to the house. We had to joint
Speaker 4: bank and the money's on the calendra. I'm leaving the
Speaker 4: key to the house.
Speaker 3: Then my jaw is on the floor.
Speaker 5: Steve, oh dish me.
Speaker 4: So I'm in Pellow, I mean in Hawaii, in a
Speaker 4: hotel room, and I get COVID. So I've had out.
Speaker 4: I had COVID, So I thought, well, what am I
Speaker 4: going to do? I think I'll write a book for
Speaker 4: widows because I've learned so much from this crazy relationship
Speaker 4: and all the stuff that widows go through.
Speaker 5: Then I'm going to write a book on widows.
Speaker 4: Well, it turns out that Steve had told me that
Speaker 4: he had done some online dating and had met some
Speaker 4: other women online, although he made me in a grief group.
Speaker 4: So I thought, I got to go online. If I'm
Speaker 4: going to write a book for widows. I don't know,
Speaker 4: and I've never been online, never thought about it, never,
Speaker 4: But I've got to do it. So I'm in the
Speaker 4: room and I type away and I sign up for
Speaker 4: Silver Singles, the one that came up for people who
Speaker 4: are over fifty, which I'm way over a few years.
Speaker 4: So anyway, I met a couple of people. One of
Speaker 4: them was Frank and.
Speaker 6: The other one was named Dave, and he was a
Speaker 6: shriner and had Dave on this when he met her
Speaker 6: for a topic. After that, I looked pretty good.
Speaker 3: A prince, a prince to go.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so I went online and Frank and I texted
Speaker 4: a little bit. But we suggest you don't spend a
Speaker 4: lot of time with people before you meet them, you know, online,
Speaker 4: unless you liked it.
Speaker 6: We both had website, so we knew that we were
Speaker 6: a little bit legitimate.
Speaker 2: So yeah, he's I agree with you take it offline
Speaker 2: as soon as you came.
Speaker 4: He's a sculptor as well as a psychologist. So anyway,
Speaker 4: we met, went to the Grassroots restaurant and I was
Speaker 4: staying with my sister for a year.
Speaker 6: I don't know if you guys have had any experience
Speaker 6: with online dating, but a lot of time is the
Speaker 6: people's profile and a way in which they talk on
Speaker 6: the phone is quite different when you meet them in person. Wow,
Speaker 6: this is on one of my first experiences where she
Speaker 6: looked better than her from Oh my god, I've got
Speaker 6: to do something and then she tells me that the
Speaker 6: only reason she's there is because she's writing a book.
Speaker 4: He's not really, I'm not really joining by the way.
Speaker 3: You were being used, Frank.
Speaker 6: I was prestfallen for about ten minutes, and I realized, Hey,
Speaker 6: we're having too much fun this. You know, this might
Speaker 6: be more than just research.
Speaker 2: I love it so how quickly after that first date
Speaker 2: was this, Oh.
Speaker 4: My gosh, to get married after two weeks and my
Speaker 4: daughter's she.
Speaker 6: Was having surgery, shoulder surgery two days after I met her.
Speaker 6: So I really, in a sense weaseled my way in
Speaker 6: by being a big hairtaker for her while she had
Speaker 6: her surge, taking these places, I know, entertaining her all
Speaker 6: about Arizona because she didn't know much about Arizona.
Speaker 3: And Frank, were you are you?
Speaker 6: Were you divorced for about a year and a half,
Speaker 6: and I was kind of dis.
Speaker 7: Yeah, and I thought, oh, well, I had some luck
Speaker 7: meeting people, good people on sober singles in the past,
Speaker 7: so I'll go back on one last try.
Speaker 6: Thank god it worked out perfectly.
Speaker 3: Thank God.
Speaker 1: I'm interested. You know, you both have two very different
Speaker 1: yet similar experiences. What differences have you found in your
Speaker 1: research from those that are widowers as opposed to just divorced.
Speaker 6: There is some differences. That's very soon on your part.
Speaker 6: There there are several differences because divorce has one connotation
Speaker 6: within society and divorce has another.
Speaker 4: You know, it's a lot smoother for widows and it
Speaker 4: is for divorces because everybody feels.
Speaker 5: Sorry for you. They'll invite you out, you know.
Speaker 4: I know eventually the widows say that the couples don't
Speaker 4: want to invite him anymore because unfortunately.
Speaker 6: Dirses have a failure kind of attached to them.
Speaker 1: Well, that's what's funny is we just assumed that the
Speaker 1: widower had this great love affair, and if it wasn't
Speaker 1: it wonderful perfect.
Speaker 4: I was married for sixty years to the most perfect
Speaker 4: person exactly. Although I will tell you my husband, before
Speaker 4: he died, give me he said to me, you know, Gloria,
Speaker 4: you're going to be with someone else, because we knew
Speaker 4: he was in big trouble. And I said, no, no, no,
Speaker 4: He said, I am telling you you are going to
Speaker 4: be Phil was a special guy.
Speaker 2: He was.
Speaker 5: You know, I never thought i'd find two loves of
Speaker 5: my life.
Speaker 2: I have good answer, good answer that you know, Gloria,
Speaker 2: can I go back to the ghoster for a second, Steve,
Speaker 2: Because my mom is a widow and she also joined
Speaker 2: a grief group and she didn't do it, but she said,
Speaker 2: I was so surprised by how many people in the
Speaker 2: grief group started dating each other.
Speaker 3: So do you think that, like.
Speaker 2: Like, I mean, I'm not okay with Steve ghosting you
Speaker 2: the way he did, But do you do you think
Speaker 2: maybe like do you have a thought in your head,
Speaker 2: especially being a psychologist, of maybe he thought maybe I
Speaker 2: rushed into this too quickly? Or what is your recommendation
Speaker 2: from your professional perspective on people meeting in that way
Speaker 2: and what kind of stay?
Speaker 4: Can I tell you I broke all my own rules.
Speaker 4: I lived there those for forty years. My advice is
Speaker 4: number one, don't do anything for the first year. Well,
Speaker 4: I owned a house in Carmela, California, and I sold
Speaker 4: it within months. And yeah, after Phil passed away, and
Speaker 4: I would have always said don't date. But I will
Speaker 4: tell you meeting somebody in a grief group and grieving
Speaker 4: together was very supportive for me. In fact, I don't
Speaker 4: think I would have been with Frank had that not happened,
Speaker 4: because I was, you know, already realized what it was
Speaker 4: like to be in a relationship and a widow.
Speaker 6: I'm very grateful to see because I really think he
Speaker 6: helped set up the situation because I probably would have
Speaker 6: been very leary knowing that she had only been grieving
Speaker 6: for a short period of time.
Speaker 3: Right, You're thinking, is she in the right place for
Speaker 3: a relationship?
Speaker 6: The energy is all eaten up by the process of
Speaker 6: adjustment to the loss, and it's awful. It is awful.
Speaker 4: I had a special circumstance. Also, you know, I started
Speaker 4: a foundation called Open to Hope for helping people find
Speaker 4: hope after loss, which is related to the death of
Speaker 4: my son when he was seventeen in an automobile absent.
Speaker 4: So I actually had had a really profound loss, and
Speaker 4: I think that makes the difference. You know, what has
Speaker 4: happened in your background. I think that's part of the
Speaker 4: reason that people are so different in the grieving process,
Speaker 4: because we have so many different learned experiences and lived experiences.
Speaker 4: So I think it made a difference. Because Steve actually
Speaker 4: told me Frank and I have run into him at
Speaker 4: the Senior Center. In fact, we've had dinner with him,
Speaker 4: and he I'm very grateful to him, Frank.
Speaker 3: And yeah, stepping Stone, Steve, thank you.
Speaker 2: Well.
Speaker 4: He came to a presentation with us and afterward and
Speaker 4: we did a Senior Center presentation that's where we saw him,
Speaker 4: and afterward he said, you know, you got to give
Speaker 4: me credit for this book.
Speaker 5: So you know, it just depends. But my wonderful Sage
Speaker 5: advice was.
Speaker 4: Don't do anything for the first year, don't make any
Speaker 4: big moves, you know, probably don't want to.
Speaker 5: Date and all that.
Speaker 6: And and I actually worked for you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and so are you glad you broke all your
Speaker 3: own rules? And do you still give that advice or
Speaker 3: has it changed?
Speaker 5: Oh my god, I just.
Speaker 4: I'm it has worked out so well for me breaking
Speaker 4: all the rules of me.
Speaker 2: But do you still do you still give that advice
Speaker 2: like don't do anything for the first year, or has
Speaker 2: that changed now because you've got a new book of
Speaker 2: advice coming out.
Speaker 4: I would say you need to think about it. I mean,
Speaker 4: you need to just think about it.
Speaker 6: It's very individual.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you need to weigh back and forth. I mean,
Speaker 4: you just don't know what people have been through. And
Speaker 4: also we've got a special factor is the fact that
Speaker 4: I'm eighty four in francs eighty and so we have
Speaker 4: not a lot of years left.
Speaker 1: Time is of the essence.
Speaker 2: Oh, I thought you were just saying, you know, I
Speaker 2: thought you were about to say, because so I'm doing
Speaker 2: a younger guy.
Speaker 3: So you know I.
Speaker 6: Have a cougar.
Speaker 1: In your research. I'm curious what you found and what
Speaker 1: you have both found. As people get older, we add
Speaker 1: excuses to not find love again, to not get back
Speaker 1: out there, of like I'm happy, I don't need this,
Speaker 1: i don't want.
Speaker 3: To deal with somebody else. I've got my life.
Speaker 1: I don't want someone to my stuff. Let's start breaking
Speaker 1: down some of these barriers of why we should get
Speaker 1: back in the game and find love and find campaigns.
Speaker 4: You know, for women, I hear so many widowed women
Speaker 4: make this statement. There's a little thing called I don't
Speaker 4: want to be a nurse or a purse, big concern.
Speaker 1: I know someone who says that exact line, Chris is mom.
Speaker 3: I'm going to call her out.
Speaker 1: We can even just say it's my mom.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she is not a widower, but she says that
Speaker 2: statement all the time.
Speaker 3: I can't believe you just said that. She says it
Speaker 3: all the time.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's break that. Let's break that down.
Speaker 5: Okay, Well, here's the deal.
Speaker 4: There are male and female nurses, and society wants women
Speaker 4: to take over those roles. And you know, for sixty years,
Speaker 4: my husband had had like seven back surgeries, so I
Speaker 4: was in that role. So Frank and I have been
Speaker 4: really clear with him that I do not.
Speaker 6: Want to be We do not want caretaker syndrome. And
Speaker 6: that's a very serious problem for seniors, particularly falling into
Speaker 6: that role. Because my aunt, who absolutely adored with my
Speaker 6: second mother, took care of my uncle and she was
Speaker 6: a lovely lady, but caretaker syndrome made her into a shrew.
Speaker 6: She was awful. I couldn't be around them, and here
Speaker 6: was a trained therapist, and I could not help the
Speaker 6: two of them because caretaker syndrome is really.
Speaker 3: I think you're shedding.
Speaker 2: You're already answering a question that we wanted to ask you, guys,
Speaker 2: So I'm glad you are, which is like we were
Speaker 2: just talking about how before you get into a relationship.
Speaker 2: You know, we counsel our college kids on this. You
Speaker 2: talk about do we want to have kids? Where do
Speaker 2: you kind of see yourself living? What do you and
Speaker 2: what you guys are getting into it sounds like is
Speaker 2: at an older age?
Speaker 3: What are those deal breakers?
Speaker 2: What are those conversations you have before you enter a relationship.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, I'll tell you what happened with Frank and I
Speaker 4: Frank needs knee surgery. Okay, He's going to have a
Speaker 4: total needs replacement, and so we have decided that he
Speaker 4: will not I will not take care of him. He
Speaker 4: will hire nurses to take care of him, and so
Speaker 4: we but the healthcare system does not want that to happen.
Speaker 6: And they're like, she got really criticized because she was
Speaker 6: not going to take care of me. And I was
Speaker 6: sitting there listening to this doctor goes through this thing
Speaker 6: about God.
Speaker 5: He'll do much better at home.
Speaker 6: We've got research that I care too much about the relationship.
Speaker 6: I don't want to put it in jeopardy.
Speaker 4: So so I decide I get a hold of my girlfriend.
Speaker 4: Frank's gonna have knee surgery right over Christmas. Okay, So
Speaker 4: I get a hold of my girlfriend and we buy
Speaker 4: tickets to Hawaii.
Speaker 5: So and Frank.
Speaker 4: Tells the guy at the hospital like, well, isn't your
Speaker 4: fiance going to take care of you?
Speaker 5: And Frank says, her mother died.
Speaker 6: I had to figure something really quick.
Speaker 5: Great, my mother is one hundred and twelve.
Speaker 1: Yeah she's doing great.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 2: Critical tell critical lies, okay, good advice, tell strategic lies.
Speaker 4: So my girlfriend and I go to Hawaii. Five o'clock
Speaker 4: in the morning. I get a telephone call. I wake up.
Speaker 4: It's Frank. He says, you're not going to believe this.
Speaker 4: They took me in the gjourney to the to do this.
Speaker 6: So I had an IVY in. I was ten feet
Speaker 6: from the surgery room.
Speaker 4: Anisthesiologist says, Oh no, we can't do it today.
Speaker 6: Sorry, you too high.
Speaker 3: Oh no, she's in Hawaii.
Speaker 1: So I hope you bought a ticket Christmas.
Speaker 5: Christmas in Hawaii. I did come back and move it.
Speaker 4: But he's going to have it in April in Arizona,
Speaker 4: which is hot. I'm going to go to California, I said,
Speaker 4: But this time, Frank, I'm going to drive to California
Speaker 4: because I want to take you to the to.
Speaker 6: The Oh yeah, she wants to make sure I.
Speaker 4: Did roll you into the operating room and I will
Speaker 4: roll off to the parking lot.
Speaker 6: To day theologist anymore.
Speaker 1: I feel like I just saw this is like took
Speaker 1: me back to the friend's episode, it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: when she wanted to make sure Chandler was off to Yemen.
Speaker 1: I want to see you get on the plane and
Speaker 1: go to Yemen.
Speaker 2: So one of those it sounds like one thing you
Speaker 2: push people past is this concern of the nurse or
Speaker 2: the purse and that you found real world ways of
Speaker 2: being like, look, we're gonna get a different We're going
Speaker 2: to do a different thing. What are some of the
Speaker 2: other barriers you see with people finding love?
Speaker 4: Let me say one thing about the purse first, because
Speaker 4: this is the money thing is big.
Speaker 5: It is big.
Speaker 4: It's big for your kids, it's big for the world.
Speaker 4: Nobody is going to date somebody who has exactly the
Speaker 4: same amount of money in their bank account.
Speaker 6: And it's usually not romantic to talk about money when
Speaker 6: you're dating and stuff like that. But if you want
Speaker 6: the relationships your last, you have to deal with the
Speaker 6: issue if there's a difference in the amount of money
Speaker 6: that we have, and that in most cases there is
Speaker 6: going to be a little bit of a difference, and
Speaker 6: how do you want to deal with that? You how
Speaker 6: And that's one of the issues that comes up again
Speaker 6: is for people our age is do you get married,
Speaker 6: or you do not, you know, because what is the
Speaker 6: issue around marriage? You're not going to have children, And really,
Speaker 6: in a sense it does help out and make sure
Speaker 6: that the only people who benefit sometimes in the process,
Speaker 6: especially around divorce, is the lawyers. So if you really
Speaker 6: want to eliminate money as an issue, and you know
Speaker 6: that you're together for the right reasons, you either have
Speaker 6: to get a prenup, which is not all that safe,
Speaker 6: or you don't get married and therefore it's not an issue.
Speaker 6: So there are options now, and I do think it's
Speaker 6: a real issue for people who get together when they're
Speaker 6: older about whether you do get married or not. She
Speaker 6: is my fiancee and she may be for the rest
Speaker 6: of my life.
Speaker 4: However, however, that being said, because of my cultural background,
Speaker 4: which is very conservative, I thought we should get married. Yeah, like,
Speaker 4: and so we do have a prenup and a marriage license.
Speaker 3: The case, well, I know, inefficient you need to do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, I can be out there. I'd say we
Speaker 1: go back to Hawaii. By the way, so you mentioned
Speaker 1: the nurse perse thing and we have kind of done
Speaker 1: away with that. What are some other big hurdles that
Speaker 1: you see that keep people from getting back into finding.
Speaker 4: Alone in the process. One of the things we recommend
Speaker 4: is a dating buddy.
Speaker 1: Yes, oh, interesting, Okay.
Speaker 6: You really shouldn't enter the dating process without some kind
Speaker 6: of support. And we in our book talk about the
Speaker 6: issue of making sure that if you're going to be dating,
Speaker 6: that you get a dating buddy. And the interesting thing
Speaker 6: is your children are usually not the best ones.
Speaker 5: Now grandchildren, grandchildren can be fun.
Speaker 6: And friends who have done online or are tried other
Speaker 6: dating processes so that they can really be supported.
Speaker 5: Yeah, young people are great, yes, yes.
Speaker 6: With the online process because a lot of times you
Speaker 6: have these apps, these dating apps.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so is that it is?
Speaker 2: I was wire our grandchildren better than children? Is it
Speaker 2: a technology?
Speaker 1: Well?
Speaker 4: That and they're willing to laugh with you and look
Speaker 4: through the pictures. My granddaughter said to me after Phil died,
Speaker 4: there was a friend of mine who's an archaeologist took
Speaker 4: us around Utah and she could see that we were
Speaker 4: really friendly, friendly, and she's like, Grandma, are you sure
Speaker 4: you don't want to play the field, And I said, Eliza,
Speaker 4: at my age, there is no fields.
Speaker 1: It's a path. I'm on the path.
Speaker 5: Online dating.
Speaker 4: It's fifty to fifty men and women where as the world.
Speaker 5: Eighty percent of women much better Mormon more men Blideline.
Speaker 6: Yes.
Speaker 1: So the interesting thing is I've had this discussion again
Speaker 1: with my mom. Sorry to keep going back to her,
Speaker 1: but about being online, and it is I don't care
Speaker 1: what age you are A it's in tim dating it
Speaker 1: can be you know, it's like a job interview, over
Speaker 1: and over and over. There is there any advice to
Speaker 1: getting online of how you can make it easier, how
Speaker 1: you can make it fun, because that's the end of
Speaker 1: the day. It's like, you want this to be exciting
Speaker 1: and fun.
Speaker 4: Exactly, that's what you're great, I said dating Boddy, because
Speaker 4: you need someone to laugh with and someone think, somebody
Speaker 4: that you can call at ten o'clock at night.
Speaker 6: Exactly, Oh did you see this guy I went out
Speaker 6: and had coffee with?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 6: What?
Speaker 2: In Kirk, I've always said anytime I've encouraged someone to
Speaker 2: be dating, I'm like, what difference does it make if
Speaker 2: you get rejected? You probably never have to see this
Speaker 2: person again, and you got a great story out of it,
Speaker 2: Like it's more for the memoir. But I do think
Speaker 2: the rejection part can be tough, you know. It's so,
Speaker 2: how do you have any advice on that or what
Speaker 2: your experiences were like with rejection online.
Speaker 6: All the experiences where you meet someone for coffee and
Speaker 6: you find that there's some inner and you really want
Speaker 6: to see that for a second date, and you have
Speaker 6: a third, fourth date, maybe even date for a month
Speaker 6: or longer, and all of a sudden there's some issue
Speaker 6: that comes up and you know that this isn't going
Speaker 6: to be the person. Okay. We call those almost experiences.
Speaker 6: They're almost what you want, okay, And you're learning all
Speaker 6: the time time, So almost experiences help you become a
Speaker 6: professional and more astute, a good consumer of online services.
Speaker 6: So this is part of the learning process. And if
Speaker 6: you see it as an almost experience and say now
Speaker 6: I have a clearer idea of what I want and
Speaker 6: also what I don't want, which is just as important.
Speaker 4: Keep your profile tied, I mean, tell people what you want.
Speaker 4: If this isn't like when you're young and you're saying,
Speaker 4: oh I can do this and I can do that,
Speaker 4: and I'm cute and I'm open to everything.
Speaker 5: You're not open to everything anymore. Now, what is it
Speaker 5: you like?
Speaker 4: If you want somebody who's financial respon, well, I take
Speaker 4: care of myself. I expect you to take care of yourself.
Speaker 4: I like the golf and you better know how to golf.
Speaker 6: Yeah, what what medications are you on? And I want
Speaker 6: to know what your medical history is? We have the
Speaker 6: all times of our gene.
Speaker 4: And you know, I want somebody that's drink. I mean
Speaker 4: you can have you can see what.
Speaker 1: You want well and being honest about I would think
Speaker 1: about I'm looking for something serious. I'm curious where intimacy
Speaker 1: comes into this. Is it is?
Speaker 6: That?
Speaker 1: Is that also like, hey, I'm I'm still willing and
Speaker 1: able to have.
Speaker 2: Such I'm sure please educate us because we don't know
Speaker 2: and we don't do a whole chapter.
Speaker 4: We have a chapter called Through the Bedroom Door. But
Speaker 4: the reality is, and that's that was one of my
Speaker 4: biggest revelations is that sex ain't what it used to be.
Speaker 6: That's right. It's really different and if you're not mature
Speaker 6: about it, you're going to have a hard time finding
Speaker 6: someone that you're going to be able to connect up with.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well I think that would be. And the reason
Speaker 1: I asked in all seriousness, I know we joke about
Speaker 1: sex and it gets kind of oh, I'm uncomfortable, But
Speaker 1: the reason I'm asking you. I've talked to too many
Speaker 1: people and I'm taking them off the off the hook.
Speaker 1: I've talked to others as well that are just like, honestly,
Speaker 1: I haven't had sex in twenty years and I just
Speaker 1: don't care. I don't care anymore. So I'm sure you
Speaker 1: get those people at a certain age that either A
Speaker 1: don't want it, be no, don't even know if they
Speaker 1: want it anymore, And it's a it's got to be
Speaker 1: a delicate subject to talk.
Speaker 4: Thing is sex is not just the intercourse. Yeah, that's
Speaker 4: the point.
Speaker 6: You know, that's a big piece because touch, human touch
Speaker 6: is really kind of important, and being able to the
Speaker 6: title and connect in bed and have pillow talk and
Speaker 6: all of those kind of things is really hard or sex,
Speaker 6: and we need to see it that way, that this
Speaker 6: is a sexual intimate connection and that you want that connection.
Speaker 6: And if you want that connection, it's going to probably
Speaker 6: add seven years of life for you, because people who
Speaker 6: are married, even when the relationship isn't perfect, tend to
Speaker 6: live seven years longer than signals. So if you want
Speaker 6: to extra life.
Speaker 4: There's something called golmonic skin response, and that is why
Speaker 4: if you even hold yourself like a baby and.
Speaker 5: Rock brain chemistry.
Speaker 4: You know, you wrub your hands together, you hold somebody
Speaker 4: else's hand, I mean it changes your brain chemistry.
Speaker 6: Yes.
Speaker 2: I read the other day this study kind of went
Speaker 2: everywhere that we need eight hugs a day on average,
Speaker 2: people need eight hugs a day just to maintain kind.
Speaker 3: Of a healthy way of life.
Speaker 2: And it was like twelve hugs a day from emotional
Speaker 2: growth or something. But I think about that with you
Speaker 2: know people who and everybody has somebody in their family
Speaker 2: who's older and alone. They're not getting that physical touch.
Speaker 6: Is mental health issue? Is loneliness for the ages?
Speaker 4: Yes, But you know it's interesting, I said to Frank.
Speaker 4: We read all these loneliness studies and they're zillion of them,
Speaker 4: but I don't hear them saying anything about dating or.
Speaker 5: Finding another relationship.
Speaker 4: They're always, you know, do this group, or you know,
Speaker 4: do this whatever. You know, when you sign up for
Speaker 4: online dating and you give that money, there's a little
Speaker 4: gland in your brain called the amygdala, and the amigdala says, hey,
Speaker 4: we're dating. You go in a room, you look around differently,
Speaker 4: and you dress differently.
Speaker 3: It's exciting and I like that.
Speaker 1: The the other excuse I know is Look, I'm in
Speaker 1: my seventies. You know, we talk about people, you know,
Speaker 1: I know this app you guys are talking about as
Speaker 1: people fifty and above. Well, I mean I think we
Speaker 1: go much older than that now, and people that are
Speaker 1: in their seventies like, oh, you know what, it's it's
Speaker 1: easy to feel like that ship is sailed. And I
Speaker 1: love that. You guys are clearly in your eighties. It's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: that ship is not sailed.
Speaker 3: I love that.
Speaker 2: By the way, can you tell us you mentioned Silver Single?
Speaker 2: Would you recommend that is? Were there dating apps or
Speaker 2: sites that you liked or didn't like? And what also
Speaker 2: blows my mind? And I'll be honest now, I have
Speaker 2: been trying to get Chris's mom to set up a
Speaker 2: dating profile. But what kind of blew my mind is
Speaker 2: like every site says fifty and above and I'm sitting
Speaker 2: there thinking that is such a wide age.
Speaker 3: Range, isn't it.
Speaker 2: Do you guys have thoughts on how dating online could
Speaker 2: be better or sites that you liked more than others?
Speaker 5: I just went on a Silver Singles.
Speaker 4: I was lucky to hit one that you know, was
Speaker 4: easy for me, that I was able to do and
Speaker 4: I met Frank, so that you've been on more sides
Speaker 4: than I have.
Speaker 5: Frank I left.
Speaker 6: There are several that are fairly good for seniors, and
Speaker 6: we have that in our book, and you know, Zeus
Speaker 6: is also when it's fairly good, plenty of fish stuff
Speaker 6: like that. The thing is that everybody needs to get
Speaker 6: onto an internet thing do the process because people are
Speaker 6: our age are not used to doing that dating online,
Speaker 6: so it's a new process. And that's the reason why
Speaker 6: your grandkids or are someone who's been on an online
Speaker 6: thing to be or dating buddy is really helpful because
Speaker 6: they can help you navigate the system, understand how to
Speaker 6: do it, and have fun with it. The biggest thing
Speaker 6: is to have fun. This should not be arduous, It
Speaker 6: should not be a terrible thing. Or you should not
Speaker 6: be so worried about being ripped off or scammed. I mean,
Speaker 6: it does happen, but scamming takes place in every part
Speaker 6: of society. So you want to be a good consumer,
Speaker 6: and you do that by finding some people who are
Speaker 6: better at it. I had more experience than you, and
Speaker 6: you use them as your dating buddy.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and they'll support you and laugh with you, and
Speaker 4: you know, you know, I think that maybe your mother
Speaker 4: in lond needs to find another dating Betty beside you.
Speaker 5: The reason is because in the long term, you're not
Speaker 5: going to get excited about her romance.
Speaker 2: Can I say, And you're not, I actually will, Chris
Speaker 2: might not, I say, you know, I'm like, well, it
Speaker 2: might be. I'm like, Chris, I don't, honey, I'm not
Speaker 2: out there trying to find you a new dad.
Speaker 3: This might be weird, but I was swiping. I'm looking,
Speaker 3: I'm into it.
Speaker 1: Well, here's the thing, and this this goes to the
Speaker 1: the kids of it all. Now your kids are like,
Speaker 1: I want my mom to find somebody. I want her
Speaker 1: to be in love. I want I want that companionship.
Speaker 1: At the same time, I don't want to be her
Speaker 1: dating buddy. I don't want to get into the intimacy
Speaker 1: of this, Like you know, there needs to be a
Speaker 1: little separation of church and state. Of course, Yes, even.
Speaker 3: Though she's actually pretty willing to crack a sex choke.
Speaker 2: We were. She'll tell you how long it's been since
Speaker 2: she's had a hookup, and and Chris goes, oh god,
Speaker 2: oh god, it's.
Speaker 1: Very rare that somebody has a more qualified son than me.
Speaker 1: As far as finding love. So that's I think this
Speaker 1: is kind of this weird anomaly in life where you
Speaker 1: had a guy who did it for twenty years professionally.
Speaker 1: But I think even still there needs to be a
Speaker 1: little separation of church and state. But Babe, I just realized,
Speaker 1: I think you are my mom's I think.
Speaker 3: I were dating buddy. Yes, your daughter Taylor as well.
Speaker 6: That's wonderful when it can happen, But I'll tell you,
Speaker 6: I think that it's more rare.
Speaker 2: Can I ask a specific question and everybody has to
Speaker 2: go get the book because just this little taste is
Speaker 2: making me. I'm ordering this book for Chris's mom, I'm
Speaker 2: ordering it for his aunt.
Speaker 3: I'm getting this. But what is the difference then.
Speaker 2: Because this is because I will say I never did
Speaker 2: the online dating thing, and I've talked to some of
Speaker 2: my friends about, like, you know, I think there you
Speaker 2: guys just gave the advice of make sure your profile
Speaker 2: is really full, for example, as someone who's dating older
Speaker 2: literally with your online profile, like what do you tell
Speaker 2: is there some should they take certain types of pictures?
Speaker 3: Are there? Is there a.
Speaker 2: Certain way you might want to word your profile so
Speaker 2: it's more accessible and gets better responses. What's some of
Speaker 2: that specific online dating advice.
Speaker 4: I think one thing, it's really important to know what
Speaker 4: you want first and who you are, and we talk
Speaker 4: about that in the first chapter of the book. Make
Speaker 4: a list of what's worked for you in relationships and
Speaker 4: what hasn't.
Speaker 5: Then that can get you set.
Speaker 6: So I can give you a lot of good information,
Speaker 6: especially and since you have more experience when you're older.
Speaker 6: Use that experience is to help you understand what works
Speaker 6: for you and what does not. Because when you're thirty
Speaker 6: and you get into a relationship, you have a lot
Speaker 6: of time to work out differences, and a lot of
Speaker 6: times younger relationships in their twenties and thirties, difference actually attracts.
Speaker 6: You know, you want someone who's going to bring something
Speaker 6: else into the thing. When you're older, it's much better
Speaker 6: to find someone who's more similar to you because they
Speaker 6: don't have all those things to work through. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 6: when you have the time to work through is it wonderful.
Speaker 6: But if you don't get someone who's more similar, because
Speaker 6: it's easier.
Speaker 4: So if you've thought about who you are before you
Speaker 4: start on the profile and what it is you want,
Speaker 4: then you can start plugging in this is what I want.
Speaker 4: It's important that they're financially responsible. I want a long
Speaker 4: term relationship. I want somebody that I can really live with.
Speaker 4: Or maybe I don't want to live with somebody. I
Speaker 4: would just like to have a friendship. You know, you
Speaker 4: can put those things in there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so be honest, know who you are and know
Speaker 2: what you want. You guys have been so wonderful. And
Speaker 2: I want to leave you with one more question, because
Speaker 2: you've both been through it all, what dating advice would
Speaker 2: you give your younger selves if you could tell them anything.
Speaker 2: Since we have a mountain of wisdom in these two professionals, right, I.
Speaker 4: Would say to people, grow through your setbacks and don't
Speaker 4: give up finding the one.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I don't think of failures, think of Hey, now
Speaker 6: I'm a better consumer, I'm a better judge of things.
Speaker 6: I have this experience, and that experience is worthwhile. It's incredible,
Speaker 6: and not all experiences are good. Some of them you
Speaker 6: don't like, but those are teachers and use them now.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and there's something called post traumatic growth. We like
Speaker 4: to talk about post traumatic stress, but there has been
Speaker 4: information to look at post traumatic growth. People who have
Speaker 4: been through trauma or have things happen in their lives,
Speaker 4: have a lot of really fine qualities of introspection.
Speaker 1: Yes, doctor Gloria Horseley, doctor Frank Powers, not just talkings.
Speaker 1: It's great, They're not They're not there. It's like I'm
Speaker 1: not just an extra the owner.
Speaker 2: I'm literally leaving this podcast feeling so happy right now
Speaker 2: because I have watched you to giggle with each other,
Speaker 2: hug each other on the screen, heard the love and
Speaker 2: the joy and the laughter and your voice. I am
Speaker 2: walking away feeling hopeful and excited, and I'm about to
Speaker 2: buy Open to Love The Secrets of Senior Dating. It's
Speaker 2: going to be available on Amazon on appropriately Valentine's time.
Speaker 3: I mean, come on, can we go on a double
Speaker 3: date with you too? Forever?
Speaker 4: In anytime you're in town or in Pallo Author or
Speaker 4: San Francisco.
Speaker 5: We're there.
Speaker 6: We're available because we believe in it so much.
Speaker 4: We actually hey, we're happy to have your mother in
Speaker 4: lawns our Dating beddy.
Speaker 2: Yes, this is perfect, amazing, We've gotten so much done today.
Speaker 2: Thank you both, what a joy to meet you, and
Speaker 2: thank you for all of your wisdom and yeah, positivity
Speaker 2: and hopefulness.
Speaker 1: Thanks Christens Fun, Thanks for listening, Follow us on Instagram
Speaker 1: at the most dramatic pod ever, and make sure to
Speaker 1: write us a review and leave us five stars. I'll
Speaker 1: talk to you next time.