1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:04,920 Speaker 1: Hi, everybody. I've got my voodoo doll out because it's Saturday. 2 00:00:05,320 --> 00:00:07,320 Speaker 1: It's time for a Saturday Select and I went with 3 00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:12,600 Speaker 1: What's the Deal with Voodoo? From July six two. Uh. 4 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:14,240 Speaker 1: You know, I picked this one because I just remember 5 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:18,880 Speaker 1: being a very interesting episode. Voodoo is. Um. Well, we 6 00:00:18,880 --> 00:00:20,799 Speaker 1: we talk all about it, not just in a pop 7 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:25,279 Speaker 1: culture way because voodoo is so often misinterpreted on TV 8 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:28,880 Speaker 1: Sitcom's Go Figure, but we get into the real voodoo 9 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 1: and in the history of it and what's behind it. 10 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:34,000 Speaker 1: All very interesting stuff. So here we go, July six, 11 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:43,280 Speaker 1: What's the Deal with Voodoo? Welcome to Stuff you Should 12 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 1: Know from House Stuff Works dot com. Hey, and welcome 13 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:55,120 Speaker 1: to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. With me as always 14 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:58,760 Speaker 1: is Charles W. Chuck Bryant. How you like your chair? 15 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 1: I hate this chair? Dude? Do you realize that, in 16 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 1: like the last eight podcasts, we've just complained at the beginning. 17 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:09,679 Speaker 1: We're probably so tired of it. Yeah, So let's let's instead, Chuck, 18 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:12,640 Speaker 1: instead of complaining as is our usual way these days, 19 00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 1: let's go back in time. Oh yes, I'm going to 20 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:25,480 Speaker 1: take us back. You're ready, okay, Chuck? Um, this is 21 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 1: August little place that we now know of as Haiti, 22 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:37,240 Speaker 1: and what's just happened is a slave uprising. Actually, what 23 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:42,679 Speaker 1: is the only successful slave uprising in the world. Good 24 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:46,000 Speaker 1: for them, Yeah, that's what I say. What happened was 25 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:51,279 Speaker 1: what happened was in earlier in August of a group 26 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:55,640 Speaker 1: of slave leaders and maroon leaders and maroons were runaway 27 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 1: slaves who've made it to the hills and we're basically 28 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:04,840 Speaker 1: staging guerrilla warfare against um plantations and white colonists. They 29 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:08,120 Speaker 1: got together and there was a ceremony that was performed 30 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:11,919 Speaker 1: in a place called Alligator Woods or block came in. 31 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:16,080 Speaker 1: I've been there, have you really? Oh? Wow, Well we're 32 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:20,160 Speaker 1: about together now, right. There's this voodoo ritual that took place, 33 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:23,440 Speaker 1: and all of the leaders basically pledged their support and 34 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:29,120 Speaker 1: dedication to this rebellion. And a week later, all hell 35 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 1: breaks loose. Okay, um this thousands of slaves revolt. They 36 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 1: murder every white person they can find. Apparently they paraded 37 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:43,520 Speaker 1: around from like settlement to settlement with a white human 38 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 1: baby impaled on a steak, I might draw the line there, 39 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:51,120 Speaker 1: but burned every plantation they could find and just basically 40 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:54,840 Speaker 1: held a slave uprising you know, it's like you can 41 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:59,360 Speaker 1: only hold somebody down for so long before they, you know, 42 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 1: turn on you. The human spirit wants to be free, exactly, Chuck. Uh. 43 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:09,400 Speaker 1: And that's essentially what happened that the Haitian slaves rose up. 44 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 1: They were unsuccessful actually in but historians say this is 45 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:17,639 Speaker 1: the point that started at all. And by eighteen o 46 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:22,240 Speaker 1: four Haitia was a free republic. Awesome, yeah, um, But 47 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 1: that that meeting in the woods that started it all. 48 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:32,520 Speaker 1: The voodoo ceremony that instance, and other slave rebellions that 49 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 1: were kind of based around voodoo UM have kind of 50 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 1: given the religion a bad rap among whites lots of 51 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 1: things since then. It's kind of weird to think of, 52 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 1: but our conception of voodoo is almost entirely hollywood ized, 53 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 1: fictionalized um and fear based based on this um kind 54 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 1: of collective white distant memory um of well, this is 55 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 1: this is what you know voodoo is. It's babies impaled 56 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 1: on steaks. What happens when you let people practice voodoo? Right, Chuck? Actually, 57 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:18,840 Speaker 1: the um that slave revault is successful slave rebellion um 58 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 1: is what Pat Robertson was talking about famously. After the 59 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:25,680 Speaker 1: Haiti earthquake when he said a long time ago, and 60 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 1: people in Haiti don't like to talk about it, but 61 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 1: they made a pact with the devil um to get 62 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:33,480 Speaker 1: the French out and they said, we'll give you our 63 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:36,359 Speaker 1: souls if uh, you'll get the French out, and the 64 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:39,839 Speaker 1: French got out. And then so basically he was saying, 65 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 1: you know, the it's devil worship. Voodoo is devil worship, 66 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:47,599 Speaker 1: and the successful slave rebellion is proved positive of it, 67 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 1: and that's why the earthquake happened in his opinion. And 68 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 1: then Haiti they were probably like, who's this devil you 69 00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:55,920 Speaker 1: keep talking about? We don't believe in that, dude. This 70 00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:58,000 Speaker 1: is gonna be a lot of debunking going on today. 71 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 1: Let's debunk dude. Let's start talking about voodoo. Okay, let's now, okay, 72 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 1: Voodoo is a religion. A lot of people think it's 73 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 1: just a bunch of hocus pocus, which is more like 74 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:14,640 Speaker 1: who do which we'll get to later. But voodoo is 75 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 1: an actual religion. There is a there's one God. It's 76 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:19,720 Speaker 1: very It depends on where you are if you're talking 77 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:25,719 Speaker 1: voodoo and um. Even generationally speaking, there's a lot of differences. Yeah, 78 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 1: because there's no definitive holy text. It's a normal tradition. Yeah. 79 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:33,440 Speaker 1: And it's a very subjective religion too, right, it's like 80 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:37,200 Speaker 1: a very personal um and it governs your day to 81 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:41,800 Speaker 1: day life. And it um also has it's different, has 82 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:45,800 Speaker 1: a different impact on every every person, right, Yes, it does. Yes. Uh. 83 00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:48,440 Speaker 1: So there's like I said, there's one supreme God and 84 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:50,840 Speaker 1: depending on where you are to be different name. Uh, 85 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 1: if you're talking Haitian voodoo, we're basically going to cover 86 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:57,040 Speaker 1: like African and Haitian in parts, I would say, won't 87 00:05:57,080 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 1: you Yeah, okay, so Haitian voodoo, you're gonna all this 88 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:04,640 Speaker 1: supreme god bandhi. But in voodoo, you can't talk directly 89 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 1: to the main god. You have to go through one 90 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:09,560 Speaker 1: of the spirits called the loa, right, and there are 91 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:12,839 Speaker 1: many loa. Now I'll have different functions, but it is hierarchical, 92 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 1: it is. And they're based on dead ancestors ancestral spirits, yeah, 93 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 1: which it turns out to be and we'll get to 94 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:22,240 Speaker 1: that more in detail. But that's a big, big part 95 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 1: of voodoo, is uh, the ancestry and dead people basically 96 00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:29,239 Speaker 1: spirits of the dead people, right, And you're talking about 97 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:33,360 Speaker 1: comparing it to say Christianity or Judaism or something like that. 98 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:38,040 Speaker 1: It's much it's much easier to compare um like a 99 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:44,280 Speaker 1: pagan religion like voodoo, to a pagan religion like um Druidism, right, 100 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 1: than it is to compare either one to Christianity or Judaism. Um. 101 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:52,520 Speaker 1: Although there are some similarities there are, especially in Haitian voodoo, 102 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:56,360 Speaker 1: but in African voodoo, Um, it's it's much more difficult 103 00:06:56,360 --> 00:07:00,800 Speaker 1: to compare it. And so answer all just still kind 104 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:04,120 Speaker 1: of put it in this um context of of ways 105 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:07,800 Speaker 1: we can understand like gods, right, but they're not gods. 106 00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:11,960 Speaker 1: You can't like to to voodoo practitioners. They're not God's 107 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:14,800 Speaker 1: their ancestral spirits. The spirit world is as real as 108 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:19,320 Speaker 1: this world. So we may hear their call them gods accidentally, 109 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 1: but that's that's just as close as we can come. 110 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:25,320 Speaker 1: You could compare them to a Greek or Roman gods, right. 111 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 1: They have different personalities that represent different things, but it's 112 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 1: kind of that shared pagan worldview that different parts of 113 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 1: the natural experience are associated with different gods. Yes, right, 114 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 1: good point. Thanks. Uh. It's basically so white Christians can 115 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 1: understand exactly what we're talking about, um so uh. African 116 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:48,200 Speaker 1: and Haitian voodoo in in both cases you have it's 117 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 1: really not a bunch of evil doing and and spells 118 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 1: cast upon one another. It's mainly used for for good 119 00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:58,040 Speaker 1: and to be a better person. In fact, you're you're 120 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:00,800 Speaker 1: counted on as a practice or voodoo to be a 121 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 1: good community member and you know, a stand up guy 122 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:07,080 Speaker 1: or gal. Right Yeah, And I remember we said that 123 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 1: it was a personal and subjective religion. Um So when 124 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 1: you're practicing voodoo, when you are um uh interacting with it, 125 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 1: say like a voodoo priest or priestess, right, um, you're 126 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 1: seeking advice, guidance and you're living your life by that, right. Yeah. 127 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 1: So there's actually I guess kind of the whole um 128 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 1: evil aspect does exist bo bo um in African tradition, 129 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:40,400 Speaker 1: right yeah. African voodoo, Yeah, that's the dark side of 130 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 1: African Vodoo is called bo right, and voodoo practitioners a 131 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:48,760 Speaker 1: voodoo priest is called a hogun right yeah. An African 132 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:52,160 Speaker 1: voodoo priest, right yeah, And an African and Haitian voodoo 133 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:56,959 Speaker 1: priestess is called a mamba, right, yes, mamba um So 134 00:08:57,040 --> 00:09:01,319 Speaker 1: the mamba and the Hogun are not charged with um 135 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:05,600 Speaker 1: carrying out bow, which is evil spells hexes um basically 136 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:08,200 Speaker 1: magic that does harm, right, right, And they do use 137 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 1: voodoo dolls they do. Yeah, but um, this is not 138 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 1: to say and this is where it kind of gets 139 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:21,200 Speaker 1: a little prickly, like a little hinky um where the 140 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:24,440 Speaker 1: voodoo priests and priests is may not actually practice bow, 141 00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:28,559 Speaker 1: this black magic, but um, they're familiar with it, they 142 00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:31,679 Speaker 1: have a working knowledge of it. But so so they 143 00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:35,079 Speaker 1: can oppose people who practice bo. Yes, you have to 144 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:39,760 Speaker 1: understand something to fight it. That's the belief they're right, right, Sure, Okay, 145 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:42,560 Speaker 1: so Chuck, let's talk a little more about ceremonies and 146 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 1: some of the characteristics and traits that make voodoo voodoo. 147 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 1: All right, are we going to Africa? Are we in 148 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:51,079 Speaker 1: Haiti at this point? Let's do Africa first. I mean, 149 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:54,040 Speaker 1: this is the cradle of voodoo, right, yeah, like six 150 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 1: thousand years ago. That's where the word comes from. It 151 00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 1: comes from the Faun language, which was the kingdom of 152 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:03,880 Speaker 1: Fun and that means sacred spirit or deity, right, And 153 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:10,120 Speaker 1: I think it was like northwest northwest Africa. Northwest it's 154 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:15,079 Speaker 1: north central West Africa. So it's West Africa. We're talking. Ghana, 155 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:19,200 Speaker 1: Benin and Togo are like the the areas where these 156 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 1: ancient kingdoms of Fawn and Congo, Congo with the k 157 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:27,080 Speaker 1: um We're located. And this is the cradle of voodoo. Yeah. 158 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:29,079 Speaker 1: And I actually got a stat for you. Um they 159 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:32,679 Speaker 1: say that thirty million people in in Togo, Ghana and 160 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 1: was it Benin, Yeah, still practice voodoo today. And just 161 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:40,079 Speaker 1: to gauge where that falls and world religions, it's about 162 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 1: double the number of Jewish people in the entire world. Wow, 163 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:46,080 Speaker 1: is it really? Yeah? Well there, I mean stats vary 164 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:49,319 Speaker 1: because depending on if you're like an active practice practitioner 165 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:51,920 Speaker 1: of Judaism or if you're just like born Jewish. But yeah, 166 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:55,719 Speaker 1: it's about double, so it ranks. It's also um an 167 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 1: official religion in Beni. Yeah. They say six of the 168 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 1: bull of that country follow voodoo. Still right, so this 169 00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:08,719 Speaker 1: is a an established religion. Um. But one of the 170 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:13,320 Speaker 1: founding um or foundational tenants of voodoo is that you 171 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:15,960 Speaker 1: can communicate with the spirits, and you communicate with the 172 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:19,280 Speaker 1: spirits to find out, you know, what you should do 173 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:24,959 Speaker 1: from them. Then the almighty deity. Yeah, the Supreme God 174 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:29,320 Speaker 1: right there, the medium, right um. One of the one 175 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:32,319 Speaker 1: of the other founding tenants of voodoo is you communicate 176 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 1: with these people, not in your head, not through prayer, 177 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:41,600 Speaker 1: but by these the loa um actually possessing someone who 178 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:44,840 Speaker 1: then gives commands or says, you know, what are you doing? 179 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:48,120 Speaker 1: Why aren't you you know, um, spending more time with 180 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:51,280 Speaker 1: your wife, things like that. Right Yeah. We said that 181 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 1: it's different in African and Haitian and all over the 182 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:55,960 Speaker 1: world and in different time periods, but that's one of 183 00:11:55,960 --> 00:12:01,439 Speaker 1: the main through lines and all voodoo is possession, spirit, intrusion, possession, 184 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 1: right um. The person who's being possessed at the time 185 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:08,079 Speaker 1: is known as the horse, and the whatever loa is 186 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:11,720 Speaker 1: is possessing him or her is known as the rider. 187 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:14,679 Speaker 1: Right Yeah, that's in Haitian voodoo. How did I get 188 00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:16,200 Speaker 1: ahead of us? No, that's right, we can, we can 189 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:19,600 Speaker 1: kind of jump around. Okay. Well that's really one of 190 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:24,240 Speaker 1: the big bridges. Um. That's really the bridge between Haitian 191 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:28,440 Speaker 1: voodoo and African voodoo. Right is that spirit possession exists. 192 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:31,120 Speaker 1: That's how you find out what you should do in 193 00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 1: your day to day life, right um. Back in Africa, 194 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:39,520 Speaker 1: on the African side. Um, some other commonalities between the two. 195 00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:42,719 Speaker 1: Because again um, or maybe not again, but possibly the 196 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:51,880 Speaker 1: first time Haitian Haitian voodoo is African voodoo with creolized yes. Right, yeah, 197 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:54,280 Speaker 1: so let's get back to talking about African voodoo. I 198 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:57,200 Speaker 1: did screw us up, and I apologize, Chuck, apologize to 199 00:12:57,200 --> 00:13:00,560 Speaker 1: our fans. I'm so sorry, fans, Please forgive me. You 200 00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 1: never owe me an apology, buddy. Um. So the answer, 201 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 1: the ancestral spirits make up the lowa. Right. Um. You 202 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 1: can take any object and consecrate it and it becomes 203 00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:14,400 Speaker 1: a ritual, sacred object. Right, which is where the dolls 204 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 1: come in, which, as you said, are not used for 205 00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:20,560 Speaker 1: um harm Right. Well, they can be by the if 206 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:23,720 Speaker 1: you're talking bow, but it's definitely not like you see 207 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:29,760 Speaker 1: in the movies, right or the Brady bunch um during Yeah, Um, 208 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 1: the there's a lot of ceremonial dance. Um. Spirits are 209 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:39,520 Speaker 1: in vogue through music, percussion, that kind of thing. Um. 210 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:43,880 Speaker 1: I know that in both Haitian and African voodoo there 211 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:48,440 Speaker 1: is a gatekeeper, um. And his name in Haitian tradition 212 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 1: is papal Legba. Right, I love that name. Yeah, um. 213 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:56,840 Speaker 1: And papal Legba is the gatekeeper between the spirit world 214 00:13:57,160 --> 00:14:00,360 Speaker 1: and the human world, right, and he's invoked at the 215 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:03,000 Speaker 1: beginning of every ceremony because you have to get him 216 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:05,560 Speaker 1: to open the gate so you can absolutely start communicating 217 00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:07,600 Speaker 1: at the low and so things can be people can 218 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:11,719 Speaker 1: be possessed. Right. And actually Papalaba is also a one 219 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:15,240 Speaker 1: of the black men at the Crossroad, who um bears 220 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:19,880 Speaker 1: a striking resemblance to our friend Mashamn. Oh really yeah, interesting, Yeah, 221 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:24,280 Speaker 1: the Crossroad a k a. The Christian Cross in Haitian tradition. Yeah, right, 222 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:26,440 Speaker 1: we should go ahead and talk about that. Probably if 223 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 1: some of this sounds familiar, if you're thinking, Papa Legba 224 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:33,240 Speaker 1: sounds sort of like St. Peter and the crossroads sounds 225 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:35,000 Speaker 1: sort of like the Christian Cross, is a very good 226 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:38,040 Speaker 1: reason for that. It's because once again we go back 227 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 1: to our friend Christopher Columbus Hispaniola and the fact that 228 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 1: they brought slaves over to Hispaniola to work on the plantations. 229 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:51,080 Speaker 1: They brought voodoo with them, and the problem there was 230 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:54,600 Speaker 1: Columbus said, no, no, no no, no no. If you're going 231 00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:56,240 Speaker 1: to be a slave over here, you have to be 232 00:14:56,280 --> 00:14:59,320 Speaker 1: converted to Christianity. So that was the code noir. The 233 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:05,080 Speaker 1: French actually did that one to be baptized, forced conversion. 234 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:08,240 Speaker 1: So what they did was in order to keep practicing voodoo, 235 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:10,920 Speaker 1: they incorporated and this or my mind was blown. I 236 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:14,520 Speaker 1: didn't know they did this. They incorporated parts of Catholicism 237 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 1: to kind of mask the fact that they were practicing 238 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 1: voodoo and it got all mixed up in what's called syncretization. Yeah, 239 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:47,360 Speaker 1: so Catholicism and voodoo working together, right crazy, So even today, Um, 240 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:50,960 Speaker 1: they're a lot of the loa there. Well, there was 241 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:57,640 Speaker 1: a lot of ready um uh similarities between these ancestral 242 00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:01,920 Speaker 1: spirits and Catholic saint. It's right. So like St. Peter 243 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:05,160 Speaker 1: is associated with papal Legba because St. Peter's the guy 244 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:08,160 Speaker 1: who's outside the gates to heaven. Papal Legba is the 245 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:12,360 Speaker 1: gatekeeper to the spirit world, so they associate him with him. Um, 246 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:16,240 Speaker 1: there is a god who is um pretty powerful. He's 247 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 1: a warrior protector god called Ogu and he's associated with St. James, 248 00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:25,160 Speaker 1: who was a warrior protector sat. So it's it wasn't 249 00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:28,240 Speaker 1: It's not a leap all the time, but sometimes it's 250 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 1: a stretch like St. Patrick, remember drove out the snakes 251 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 1: from Ireland. He's associated with snakes in the Haitian tradition. Um. 252 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 1: But yeah, so when you when you look at the 253 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:45,960 Speaker 1: underlying um tenants, the really overarching narrative of being able 254 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 1: to communicate with spirits, invoking spirits through percussion, percussion, song, dance, 255 00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:54,920 Speaker 1: I'm being possessed and objects being able to be consecrated 256 00:16:55,320 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 1: and and become sacred. Um. Then that's voodoo across the board. 257 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:06,200 Speaker 1: The voodoo were familiar with. Um, that's Haitian voodoo, which 258 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:09,640 Speaker 1: is kind of mixed up with Catholicism. Yeah. I said 259 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:14,200 Speaker 1: that they even incorporated uh Catholic hymns and prayers. Yeah. Crazy, Yeah, 260 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:20,040 Speaker 1: who knew, Tracy Wilson, Yeah she did. Um. So, Josh, 261 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:23,000 Speaker 1: you brought up rituals that they would perform to invoke 262 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:26,280 Speaker 1: the gods. And one of the tenants of voodoo is 263 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:28,360 Speaker 1: the gods will give you advice at all, but you've 264 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:30,560 Speaker 1: got to take care of the gods the spirits. Yeah. 265 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:33,480 Speaker 1: And one way that you can do this is by 266 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:37,360 Speaker 1: animal sacrifice to appease the god, you know, the spirit. Yeah. 267 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:40,680 Speaker 1: Now this is um again. This is another ticklish aspect 268 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:43,320 Speaker 1: of voodoo, isn't it? You know? I mean this is like, oh, 269 00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:46,639 Speaker 1: they sacrifice animals, they're they're evil. It's like, well you 270 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:50,560 Speaker 1: got the sacrifice animals part right right? You know, well 271 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:53,600 Speaker 1: they used to sacrifice humans, do did they? Yeah, it's 272 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 1: been like at least a hundred years since any of 273 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:59,359 Speaker 1: that's gone on in Africa? They say, huh so, chuck, 274 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:06,480 Speaker 1: there's actually um with the animal sacrifices. Um. There, there's 275 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:09,360 Speaker 1: actually a process, as you can imagine, there's a process 276 00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 1: where so you're you're going to sacrifice the chicken, right um. 277 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:17,480 Speaker 1: And this chicken is washed and leaves to be consecrated, 278 00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:20,760 Speaker 1: and then it's fed from this ritual dish. And if 279 00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:23,920 Speaker 1: it refuses to eat, then that means that the loa 280 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:27,760 Speaker 1: has rejected that sacrifice, and the animal is set free. 281 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:31,639 Speaker 1: If it eats, then it's like, okay, you're dead. Always 282 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:35,840 Speaker 1: eat though apparently I guess they don't. But but it's 283 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:38,919 Speaker 1: not just chickens. I think this applies to the goats, pigs, whatever, 284 00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:43,440 Speaker 1: sacrifice right um. And so if it eats, then it's like, okay, 285 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:45,640 Speaker 1: you're dead. If it's a goat or a pig, it's throat, 286 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:47,960 Speaker 1: it's slip. If it's a chicken, its neck is broken, 287 00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:51,359 Speaker 1: but it's quick. It's a quick death. It's not you know, 288 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:54,679 Speaker 1: tortured or anything like that. The blood is mixed in 289 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:59,840 Speaker 1: this um calabash like a big chalice bowl um with 290 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:04,840 Speaker 1: rum and syrup and salt, and then people will either 291 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:08,760 Speaker 1: take a sip or they'll they'll um make a cross 292 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:12,240 Speaker 1: on their crucifix on their head in blood. Right, So 293 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:15,639 Speaker 1: that's the blood sacrifice. That's where the blood sacrifice ritual 294 00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:18,400 Speaker 1: stands today. Oh really they still do it that way 295 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:22,480 Speaker 1: because Haitians still practice voodoo like uh, like right out 296 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:25,440 Speaker 1: in the open. So yeah, it's not some like Westerners 297 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:27,639 Speaker 1: might think it's like some weird hidden thing, but it's 298 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:30,720 Speaker 1: not like that at all. Uh. You also talked about 299 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:33,439 Speaker 1: um when they invoke or when you're possessed. There's I know, 300 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:36,760 Speaker 1: there's a dance called the Dance of the hooded uh 301 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:40,440 Speaker 1: a gun gun And apparently what happens is when someone 302 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:43,159 Speaker 1: is like the spirit overtakes them and they're possessing and 303 00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:48,280 Speaker 1: they're dancing around. If you touch them, you die, that's 304 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 1: what they say. So you gotta like stand in the 305 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:52,119 Speaker 1: circle and witness all this in some part but you know, 306 00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:53,840 Speaker 1: they're running all over the place, so you gotta like, 307 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:57,840 Speaker 1: you know, keep your distance. And um. They're also if 308 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:01,040 Speaker 1: while you're possessed, you are imperview is to pain, you 309 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:04,080 Speaker 1: can't be injured. Good point. And today I was reading 310 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:06,280 Speaker 1: an article from I think two thousand two or two 311 00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:10,680 Speaker 1: thousand four, um, and this guy was talking about witnessing 312 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:16,040 Speaker 1: a a voodoo ritual in West Africa, yeah, recently. And 313 00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:20,159 Speaker 1: these guys were, um, we're possessed by Ugu remember the 314 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:24,040 Speaker 1: warrior protector spirit um. And they were cutting themselves with 315 00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:28,320 Speaker 1: their knives, blood lighting, um, and weren't wincing or anything 316 00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:30,719 Speaker 1: like that because apparently one aspect of it is like 317 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:33,920 Speaker 1: you can't feel pain while you're possessed. Interesting. Yeah, well, 318 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:35,440 Speaker 1: and since you brought that up, we should probably go 319 00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:39,919 Speaker 1: ahead and talk about why Westerners view voodoo as some 320 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:42,840 Speaker 1: sort of evil, awful thing, right, in addition to the 321 00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:46,520 Speaker 1: slave uprising right, Well, yeah, exactly. One of the reasons 322 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:49,280 Speaker 1: you just mentioned was a lot of the there's a 323 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:53,480 Speaker 1: lot of self injury that goes on, like yeah, and 324 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:55,639 Speaker 1: so Westerners see that and they think those people are 325 00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:58,280 Speaker 1: crazy look at them. Well, not just that, but blood 326 00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:02,600 Speaker 1: making a real all of parents anything dealing with death. 327 00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:05,119 Speaker 1: The fact that they believe that death is like you know, 328 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:07,440 Speaker 1: not necessarily a bad thing, and that the spirits are 329 00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:11,480 Speaker 1: are still living among us, guiding us. That's not where 330 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:14,400 Speaker 1: Westerners aren't typically down with that either. Now, Westerners don't 331 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:17,280 Speaker 1: have a stomach for real blood, which is why wine 332 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:19,440 Speaker 1: is used in place of it or as a metaphor 333 00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:22,919 Speaker 1: for it. And like the Christian tradition, and death is 334 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:25,280 Speaker 1: something that we don't like to think about or talk 335 00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:29,000 Speaker 1: about in the West either. Again, though in the voodoo 336 00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:31,760 Speaker 1: tradition and in a lot of other traditions, Um, death 337 00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:34,920 Speaker 1: is just a part of the natural order of things, 338 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:37,919 Speaker 1: and it's certainly not the end. I think in the West, 339 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:41,280 Speaker 1: it's kind of viewed even by the religious in some 340 00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:44,080 Speaker 1: cases as the end, and we don't really like to 341 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:47,040 Speaker 1: think about that, you know. That's a good point. Um. 342 00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:50,560 Speaker 1: The other thing Tracy mentioned in here was from nineteen 343 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:54,080 Speaker 1: fifteen to nineteen thirty five, the Marine Corps occupied Haiti, 344 00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:57,840 Speaker 1: and during this period there were a lot of books 345 00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:00,800 Speaker 1: and movies all of a sudden being written about uh 346 00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:04,720 Speaker 1: and portrayed like Haitian voodoo as these you know, crazy 347 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:07,800 Speaker 1: blood letting people, so those became really popular. One of 348 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:13,480 Speaker 1: them was called White Zombie. Around the same time it 349 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:17,639 Speaker 1: had spread uh to New Orleans, and kind of who 350 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:21,400 Speaker 1: do became popular. Right in the nineteenth century, there were 351 00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:24,359 Speaker 1: two women named Marie la vau and Um. One was 352 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:28,960 Speaker 1: they were the most powerful women in UM in voodoo 353 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 1: culture in the US UM and the one was the 354 00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:37,400 Speaker 1: mom and the one was the daughter. Mom retired and died, 355 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:40,920 Speaker 1: the daughter disappeared. No one knows what happened to her, UM. 356 00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:47,240 Speaker 1: But after the second one disappeared, UH, the the followers 357 00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:51,320 Speaker 1: split into factions, and one of the factions became who 358 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:53,560 Speaker 1: do and you do became very powerful. And who do 359 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:59,160 Speaker 1: is a mix of bow black magic with voodoo and 360 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:02,240 Speaker 1: or in the who do tradition, I guess, And so 361 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:04,080 Speaker 1: now we have who do? And that is what most 362 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:06,440 Speaker 1: people think of when you think of voodoo in the US, 363 00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 1: you think of New Orleans. And then what we're actually 364 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:10,919 Speaker 1: thinking of is who do not voodoo. They should have 365 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:13,880 Speaker 1: named it something else. They should have, you know, like 366 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:18,520 Speaker 1: um Chimmy Chongga or something exactly um UM. So these 367 00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:23,360 Speaker 1: misconceptions still abound. UM. There was a paper in nine 368 00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:27,600 Speaker 1: four that apparently this physician who wrote it, A researcher 369 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,760 Speaker 1: who wrote it still takes flak four. Um. But it 370 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:34,760 Speaker 1: was titled Night of the Living Dead to colon. Do 371 00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 1: necromantic zombieists transmit ht LV three slash l a v 372 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:46,800 Speaker 1: during voodooistic rituals? So basically, do necrophiliacs who are into 373 00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:51,920 Speaker 1: zombieism and our voodoo practitioners started, are they the reason 374 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:57,119 Speaker 1: for the spread of aids in Haiti? Well, actually, there 375 00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:01,000 Speaker 1: is a certain element of public health too, That's what's 376 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:03,640 Speaker 1: gonna say. That's like, that's one of the real concerns, 377 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:07,320 Speaker 1: just not all these Western misconceptions of like taboos. Um. 378 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:11,000 Speaker 1: Real concerns are that there is blood letting and that 379 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:14,800 Speaker 1: they freely bleed on one another and or sharing you know, 380 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:18,040 Speaker 1: the blood of an animal sacrifice, people drinking that that 381 00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:20,120 Speaker 1: that can be bad stuff. Yeah, so that's a real 382 00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:23,879 Speaker 1: health concern. Um. Another really practical concern is a lot 383 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:25,760 Speaker 1: of and we failed to mention this the priests and 384 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:28,720 Speaker 1: priestess is one of their main gigs is to practice 385 00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:33,160 Speaker 1: folk medicine on on the practitioners of voodoo. Right, because 386 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:35,760 Speaker 1: again we said everyday life, like voodoo is part of 387 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:37,920 Speaker 1: your everyday life. If you were and right here, and 388 00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:39,879 Speaker 1: some of these folk practices kind of fly in the 389 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:42,679 Speaker 1: face of real medicine. So that's sort of a concern 390 00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:44,680 Speaker 1: here and there. I think we should replace the word 391 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:48,280 Speaker 1: reel with Western. Yeah, you're right, Yeah, you're definitely right, 392 00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:50,880 Speaker 1: because I believe in a lot of like Eastern medicine. Sure, 393 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:57,679 Speaker 1: I might look into voodoo, might clear up my sinuses. Yeah. Uh. 394 00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:00,720 Speaker 1: And like we said, um, death is a big, big 395 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:03,200 Speaker 1: part of it, and just the culture of fear that 396 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:06,439 Speaker 1: it creates is something that is a big turn off 397 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:09,399 Speaker 1: for a lot of well, it creates a culture of 398 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:11,840 Speaker 1: fear in the in the West, it is. But again 399 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:18,960 Speaker 1: there's I think even informed, um educated people have misconceptions 400 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:23,119 Speaker 1: about voodoo because it's been harangued so long in this 401 00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:26,280 Speaker 1: country that people in the US just really don't understand 402 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:29,440 Speaker 1: what what it is that's going on down there, and 403 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:35,840 Speaker 1: there's so many misunderstandings. Yeah, they see angel heart, but 404 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 1: even beyond that, like even if even if you don't 405 00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:40,840 Speaker 1: think it's who do you're You're like, okay, well they're 406 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:43,840 Speaker 1: turning people into zombies. We did the how zombies work thing, 407 00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:48,040 Speaker 1: and it's real down there. Um, but that's not voodoo. 408 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:53,119 Speaker 1: That's bo right, yeah, exactly. Um, So it's kind of 409 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:56,680 Speaker 1: it makes me Um sad for voodoo, I guess a 410 00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:59,560 Speaker 1: little sad for voodoo. It makes me sad for the mombas. 411 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,760 Speaker 1: It's definitely Um has a stigma about it, and until 412 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:05,320 Speaker 1: I read all about it, I probably fell into that 413 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:08,560 Speaker 1: same trap. But then you start realizing, aside from like 414 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:11,080 Speaker 1: spiritual possession and a couple of the other things, like 415 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:13,239 Speaker 1: you know, it's not so different than other religions when 416 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:17,080 Speaker 1: you look at it, and I think Buddhist actually, I 417 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:20,040 Speaker 1: think there are times when Buddhism when there is spiritual 418 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:23,960 Speaker 1: possession going on there too. Christianity. Now, yeah, there's a 419 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:29,600 Speaker 1: good example in this article of um spirit possession happening 420 00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:33,480 Speaker 1: in the Buddhist tradition, right, Yeah, that's where I heard it. Yeah, 421 00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:36,320 Speaker 1: all right, there was Um in nineteen fifty nine. The 422 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:40,000 Speaker 1: Dalai Lama was Um speaking with an oracle that was 423 00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:44,560 Speaker 1: possessed Um, and the oracle gave him advice on how 424 00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:50,399 Speaker 1: to escape the Chinese army successfully that spirit possession. But 425 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:55,399 Speaker 1: it's Buddhism and they don't sacrifice chickens. I think that 426 00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:57,920 Speaker 1: that's kind of it. There's a lot of blood and 427 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:02,240 Speaker 1: death in voodoo and people are afraid of it, right, Um. 428 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:05,280 Speaker 1: But I read it or saw a thing on NPR 429 00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:08,120 Speaker 1: today where one guy went down and spent some time 430 00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:11,119 Speaker 1: with with the voodoo um practitioners, and I think Haiti 431 00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:18,080 Speaker 1: and he said, maybe his Ira Glass people are crazy. 432 00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:22,040 Speaker 1: That's that's more Woody Allen than Ira Glass Um. But 433 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:24,359 Speaker 1: he basically like in the dark Side, even the bow 434 00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:28,240 Speaker 1: to the concept of heaven and hell and Western religion 435 00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:30,359 Speaker 1: and he he said, quote, the whole point is to 436 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:34,159 Speaker 1: manifest the darkness so that goodness can overwhelm it. And 437 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:36,400 Speaker 1: it's the same in Voodoo as it is in Christianity. 438 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:38,720 Speaker 1: And you know, actually I said that Christianity they don't 439 00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:42,080 Speaker 1: believe in like possession at all. Not quite true. Oh yeah, 440 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:47,240 Speaker 1: some some like Southern Baptist and Pentecostal believe that the 441 00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:50,119 Speaker 1: spirit can overtake you in such a way. So I 442 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:52,439 Speaker 1: was not quite right there. But again, think about how 443 00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:54,880 Speaker 1: those people are looked at from the same people who 444 00:27:55,440 --> 00:28:00,440 Speaker 1: look at voodoo as you know, unseemly. Yeah, good point. 445 00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:03,280 Speaker 1: But what what's going on now though, is there's there's 446 00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:07,760 Speaker 1: sort of an outright war from on voodoo by missionaries 447 00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:10,720 Speaker 1: still going there to convert them from what they say 448 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:13,720 Speaker 1: as a cult, right or associated with the devil. Well, yeah, 449 00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:16,880 Speaker 1: they associated with Satan, which is ridiculous because nothing about 450 00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:19,880 Speaker 1: voodoo has anything to do with Satan. I don't even 451 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:23,880 Speaker 1: believe it exists. Yeah, so this is Western Christians kind 452 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:26,480 Speaker 1: of just putting all their stuff on them. Lots of 453 00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:31,200 Speaker 1: hang ups. Yeah we uh Anglo Saxon descendants really like 454 00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:34,640 Speaker 1: to hang our hang ups on other people. Right, Yeah, 455 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:37,720 Speaker 1: let's let's stop that. Well, I mentioned Angel Hart. We 456 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:40,840 Speaker 1: should mention the movies real quick. Angel Hart, great movie. 457 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:46,000 Speaker 1: Who do Surpent in the Rainbow? Great movie? But again 458 00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:49,280 Speaker 1: that was Wade Davis, the anthropologist, and he's done a lot, 459 00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:51,440 Speaker 1: That's who that was. Yeah, he's done well, it was 460 00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:54,719 Speaker 1: bull Bill Pullman playing him. But um, he's done a lot. 461 00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:59,600 Speaker 1: Actually to a cloud voodoo to continue these misconceptions rather 462 00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:02,160 Speaker 1: than hear them up. Really yeah, but he's made a 463 00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:04,600 Speaker 1: lot of money along the way. Good point. And then 464 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:06,120 Speaker 1: of course Live and Let Die. We like to talk 465 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:09,160 Speaker 1: about Bond. That some voodoo in that best bond ever. 466 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:15,680 Speaker 1: Roger Moore, God, it's so true. Roger Moore was awful. Dude, Dude, 467 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:18,040 Speaker 1: Roger Moore was great. I grew up with Roger Moore, 468 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:20,760 Speaker 1: so I like, like, I have a certain affinity for 469 00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:22,880 Speaker 1: some of those films, some of his earlier ones. But 470 00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:24,960 Speaker 1: it got to the point where it was just like 471 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:30,280 Speaker 1: a cartoon of himself. He was never the butt kicker 472 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:34,160 Speaker 1: like Connery was, or the New Guys whatever, Dalton or 473 00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:48,440 Speaker 1: who's a name that Greig? All right, Well, if you 474 00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:51,800 Speaker 1: want to learn more about James Bond and Voodoo, you 475 00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:55,000 Speaker 1: can type James Bond and Voodoo into the handy search 476 00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:57,840 Speaker 1: bar how stuff works dot Com. If doesn't work, which 477 00:29:57,880 --> 00:29:59,920 Speaker 1: I can pretty much guarantee it won't, just type voodoo 478 00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:02,520 Speaker 1: try that one. And since I said handy search bart 479 00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:07,720 Speaker 1: how stuff works dot Com, it's time for listener mail. Josh, 480 00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:12,120 Speaker 1: I'm gonna call this ghost prisons for reels? Did you 481 00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:14,840 Speaker 1: read this one from Will h? Hey, guys, just thought 482 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:16,959 Speaker 1: I would drop a line about my interaction with your 483 00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:19,920 Speaker 1: recent ghost prisons topic, which we have yet to get 484 00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:23,280 Speaker 1: a lot of flag for. We've gotten zero flak. I'm 485 00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:25,200 Speaker 1: ready for some flat to come. Aren't way about some way? 486 00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:28,160 Speaker 1: People stopped listening a long time ago? Chuck, I have 487 00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:30,920 Speaker 1: met on several occasions a man by the name of 488 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:34,400 Speaker 1: I'll go ahead and say his name, mom Do Habib, 489 00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:37,480 Speaker 1: who was very prominent in the Australian media for being 490 00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:43,920 Speaker 1: an Australian citizen held at Gitmo or Jitmo, Gitmo, Gitmo, alright, 491 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:50,280 Speaker 1: because Guantanamo. It's not Jouantanamo Guantanamo. Through my conversations with him, 492 00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:51,840 Speaker 1: it was clear that he had not only been tained 493 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:56,520 Speaker 1: at Guantanamo, but also it was a subject to extraordinary rendition. 494 00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:00,320 Speaker 1: He was captured by the US and Pakistan sent to Egypt, 495 00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:03,720 Speaker 1: where he was held for six months and tortured. The torture, however, 496 00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:08,400 Speaker 1: was ineffective because of the misadministration of drugs by US agents, 497 00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:12,200 Speaker 1: which rendered him almost above feeling for most of the time, 498 00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:14,840 Speaker 1: so like they doped him up so much he couldn't 499 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:18,560 Speaker 1: even feel the torture, basically almost as if he was 500 00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:21,560 Speaker 1: under the power of a voodoo's spell or under the 501 00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:25,680 Speaker 1: power of morphine. Right after six months, he was dumped 502 00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:29,240 Speaker 1: back in the pantis Pakistan before getting picked up again 503 00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:32,520 Speaker 1: and taken to Gitmo. It was apparently common policy for 504 00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:36,520 Speaker 1: the US to first torture then imprisoned in Guantanamo Bay 505 00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:40,280 Speaker 1: in order to use the torture findings. However, mainly due 506 00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:43,200 Speaker 1: to the tireless campaigning of his wife, he was released 507 00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:47,240 Speaker 1: from Guantanamo and returned to ODZ. However, judging from the 508 00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:50,440 Speaker 1: times I have met him, the experience will never leave him. 509 00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:57,120 Speaker 1: In regards to the tortured, I forgot all about it. 510 00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:00,600 Speaker 1: But you want to come over for a bobby, for 511 00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:04,200 Speaker 1: a slab of b for a stubby. In regards to 512 00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:07,040 Speaker 1: the perception that Obama is better in terms of this stuff, 513 00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:10,479 Speaker 1: it is unfortunately not the case. We'll say that Gitmo 514 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:13,200 Speaker 1: has been replaced by a Bogram airbase in Afghanistan, in 515 00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:16,360 Speaker 1: prison even further from the public eyes. Keep up the 516 00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:18,560 Speaker 1: great work, guys. Hope this finds you in good health. 517 00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:22,000 Speaker 1: There is no way to end that softly. It's gonna 518 00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:23,920 Speaker 1: stop here. And yeah, keep up with great work. So 519 00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:27,600 Speaker 1: that comes from Will and he says peace right on Will, 520 00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:31,920 Speaker 1: Peace to you two, my friends. So, uh, what do 521 00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:35,200 Speaker 1: you want to call for, Chuck? I don't know? Something interesting? 522 00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:39,720 Speaker 1: How about if you are a practitioner of voodoo. That 523 00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:41,959 Speaker 1: is excellent, Chuck. We want to hear from you, yes, 524 00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:45,200 Speaker 1: please do let us know. Um, if you're a practitioner voodoo, 525 00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:47,240 Speaker 1: we would love to hear from you. Let us know 526 00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:50,600 Speaker 1: what's going on and what we got glaringly wrong or omitted, 527 00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:53,360 Speaker 1: because this one could like this one could use filling out. 528 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:55,200 Speaker 1: I think a little more. What are they called voodoos? 529 00:32:55,760 --> 00:33:00,400 Speaker 1: Voodoo practitioners, voodooists, voodooists? You know the line in Blazing Sales, 530 00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:03,960 Speaker 1: Now go do that voodoo that you do so well? Yes, 531 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:08,600 Speaker 1: Late Harvey corman Um. You can also follow us on Twitter, 532 00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:11,280 Speaker 1: s y s K podcast. We have a Facebook page 533 00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:13,440 Speaker 1: that we like to hang out on sometimes. It's called 534 00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:18,200 Speaker 1: stuff you should know. Website in parentheses and you can 535 00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:20,960 Speaker 1: send us that email if you are into voodoo at 536 00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:29,240 Speaker 1: stuff podcast at how stuff works dot com. For more 537 00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:31,920 Speaker 1: on this and thousands of other topics, visit how stuff 538 00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:35,479 Speaker 1: works dot com. Want more how stuff works, check out 539 00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:37,680 Speaker 1: our blogs on the house stuff works dot com home 540 00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:38,080 Speaker 1: page