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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discuss the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds. And we have reports that show Dianne

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Speaker 1: Feinstein is in far worse health than her staff is closed.

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Speaker 1: We have an excellent show today, a show of shows

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Speaker 1: Representative Jake Ackenclass and Lucas Kans, who is running to

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Speaker 1: unseat our least favorite runner Josh Holly in the Senate.

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Speaker 1: We'll stop by to talk about just how ridiculous Josh

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Speaker 1: Holly's new book is. Then we'll talk to the Daily

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Speaker 1: Beasts Sam Brody about all the latest fuckery in Congress.

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Speaker 1: But first we have fan favorite friend of mine, the

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Speaker 1: host of the Laurence O'Donnell Show, MSNBC's very own Laurence o'donnals.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to Fast Politics, fan favorite and my personal favorite, Lawrence.

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Speaker 2: Let me just say something about hosting guests in a

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Speaker 2: tone format. The one thing, the one thing I Lawrence

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Speaker 2: O'Donnell can never say, is this is my favorite guest.

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Speaker 2: You know, I don't think Johnny Carson ever said that.

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Speaker 2: I don't think Letterman ever said that. It's just like,

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Speaker 2: you know, you say that and there's one hundred guests

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Speaker 2: out there who are never coming back.

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Speaker 1: Let me say, if you say everyone is the favorite.

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Speaker 3: Guest, okay, then you're covered. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I'm not saying I do that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but you better start now.

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Speaker 1: I mean, so, let's talk about the fourteenth Amendment. Not

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Speaker 1: without its problems. We are in this debt ceiling situation.

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Speaker 1: It is reliant on the stupidest person to ever have

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Speaker 1: been speaker. Maybe that's a bold statement, Am I wrong?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? But I believe it's a true statement.

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Speaker 2: We have looked at the SATs of every speaker going

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Speaker 2: back to seventeen eighty and yeah.

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Speaker 1: Kevin McCarthy, it feels like he's a man out of

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Speaker 1: his depth.

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Speaker 2: I actually don't think he is exactly. He's a stupid

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Speaker 2: man in many ways who is the representative of and

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Speaker 2: quote leader of. But we know he's not the leader

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Speaker 2: of the stupidest party delegation in the history of the

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Speaker 2: House of Representatives. So you'd have to look at the

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Speaker 2: Republican House and say, do you have anyone smarter than

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Speaker 2: Kevin McCarthy, And the answer is, oh, yes, sure a few.

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Speaker 2: You know Tom Cole, for example, who used to be

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Speaker 2: a reasonable Republican. But Tom Cole, now you know, very

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Speaker 2: faithfully follows all the principles of trump Ism and as

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Speaker 2: Kevin McCarthy does, and lives in service to them out

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Speaker 2: of fear of two things in the case of Tom Cole.

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Speaker 2: One is not being re elected and the other is

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Speaker 2: not being able to be chairman of the Rules Committee.

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Speaker 2: If he was re elected and wasn't playing the role

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Speaker 2: of dumb pro Trump guy, then he would not have

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Speaker 2: a chairmanship. And so that's enforcing the dumb behavior on

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Speaker 2: the very small group of Republican House members who are

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Speaker 2: are not idiots.

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Speaker 1: Right, and then there are some in that group who

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Speaker 1: are like the Thomas Massey is not stupid, but have

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Speaker 1: such bad libertarian brainworms that there's no help.

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Speaker 2: You're going to have to do the neurology on distinguishing

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Speaker 2: how libertarian brainworms are different from stupid in any functional

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Speaker 2: way at all.

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Speaker 1: Right, true, let's just talk about this for a second.

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Speaker 1: We were careening towards a dead ceiling drama. I mean,

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Speaker 1: where do you think this goes?

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Speaker 3: I have no idea.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So, audience members, if you don't want to listen

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Speaker 2: to someone who has no idea, this is your moment

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Speaker 2: to go switch over to something else. I feel like

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Speaker 2: that must be declared by everyone participating in this discussion.

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Speaker 2: I've changed my mind about it a few times along

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Speaker 2: the way, and I'm ready to again. In the end,

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Speaker 2: we may look at it and diagram it and say

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Speaker 2: Biden played it exactly right. We don't know that yet,

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Speaker 2: but he might have done so. And so I have

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Speaker 2: been attracted to the fourteenth Amendment solution so called, in

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Speaker 2: which the president simply says, when you hit the debt ceiling,

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Speaker 2: which is kind of a mythological moment. You know, it's

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Speaker 2: that they're saying it's June first, but it's not exactly

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Speaker 2: like your checking account that it hits, you know, a

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Speaker 2: spot where there's no money. And so that the president

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Speaker 2: can simply authorize the issuance of new and additional debt

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Speaker 2: because it is his duty, as Lawrence Tribe points out brilliantly,

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Speaker 2: I think it is his duty to faithfully execute all

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Speaker 2: of the laws Congress has passed. And Congress has passed

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Speaker 2: all these laws mandating spending in medicare and social security

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Speaker 2: and defense and education and all sorts of things, and

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Speaker 2: so he must follow those laws. It's his duty to

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Speaker 2: fund those things. And by the way, there is nowhere

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Speaker 2: anywhere even the hint or suggestion that there is an

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Speaker 2: executive authority presidential or in the Treasury Secretary to decide

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Speaker 2: what bills not to pay. That's not an authority that exists.

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Speaker 2: So the Republicans think, like, sure, you hit the debt ceiling,

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Speaker 2: and then Biden just doesn't pay for anything liberal and

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Speaker 2: he pays for all the soldier stuff. It's like, no,

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Speaker 2: there's no, there's no authority that allows him to do that.

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Speaker 2: And so I would say, if you were going to

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Speaker 2: use the Fourteenth Amendment power, the power that people believe

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Speaker 2: resides there, I would have announced it a while ago.

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Speaker 2: I might have even announced it in the State of

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Speaker 2: the Union address and just say, the debt ceiling as

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Speaker 2: currently legislated, will intersect, you know, with the debt at

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Speaker 2: some point later this year. And I want this Congress

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Speaker 2: to know that, absolutely, under no circumstances, will we default

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Speaker 2: on the debt, because I will if Congress does nothing,

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Speaker 2: I will take the action executive action necessary to authorize

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Speaker 2: the extension of additional debt. And then your no negotiation position,

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Speaker 2: I think my guess is becomes even stronger because you're

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Speaker 2: saying to them, look, I don't care if you don't

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Speaker 2: legislate anything, and you're saying it to them six months

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Speaker 2: ahead of time. I think there's a chance that would

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Speaker 2: have changed the dynamics of this. And the other thing

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Speaker 2: about it that makes it the kind of thing you

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Speaker 2: do want to say six months ahead of time is

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Speaker 2: there are market issues with it. You know, when you

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Speaker 2: say we're going to continue to extend the debt and

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Speaker 2: expand the debt even though we've crossed the line the

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Speaker 2: number that's in the debt ceiling, the buyers of that

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Speaker 2: new debt, right, the buyers of the new treasury bonds

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Speaker 2: that would be sold under that condition would rightfully demand

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Speaker 2: a higher interest rate because this debt is being issued

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Speaker 2: under a condition we've never seen except back before there

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Speaker 2: was ever a debt ceiling, which is like it's only

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Speaker 2: been around for less than one.

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Speaker 1: Hundred years, right, But I mean they just started deciding

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Speaker 1: that it was optional in two thousand and seven, right,

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Speaker 1: that's correct.

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Speaker 2: We used to pass it by unanimous consent. I thought

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Speaker 2: when I was working on the Finance Committee, which has

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Speaker 2: jurisdiction over it, that we did only one markup and

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Speaker 2: as they call it in the committee. And one passage

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Speaker 2: of a debt ceiling increase. There was only one I

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Speaker 2: could remember because the other one we did unanimously. So

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Speaker 2: and traditionally, by the way, in those days, what would

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Speaker 2: happen is the party in power that needed to increase

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Speaker 2: the debt ceiling voted for it, and many of the

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Speaker 2: members of the party not in power voted against it.

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Speaker 2: They didn't obstruct it, they didn't demand anything, they just

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Speaker 2: voted no. And that's the way they did it. In

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Speaker 2: nineteen ninety three, the first time Bill Clinton had to

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Speaker 2: raise the debt ceiling, you know, Bob Dole led all

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Speaker 2: the Republicans in, by the way, very congenially voting no,

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Speaker 2: not being obstructive in any way. And then you know,

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Speaker 2: fifty seven Democrats, you know, voted to pass the debt

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Speaker 2: ceiling and there was no struggle whatsoever. It was always

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Speaker 2: a posture, you know, because Bob Dole had participated already

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Speaker 2: in raising the debt ceiling for Republican presidents. And the

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Speaker 2: most regrettable vote, and possibly only regrettable vote that Senator

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Speaker 2: Obama ever cast, was when he was in the minority

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Speaker 2: in the Senate and there was a Republican president. The

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Speaker 2: Democrats mostly voted against the increase in the debt ceiling,

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Speaker 2: and that was just a stunt. It was nothing but

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Speaker 2: a stunt. They all knew the debt ceiling should be increased,

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Speaker 2: and it's fine to cast that vote as a senator

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Speaker 2: as long as you never become president him exactly. That's

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Speaker 2: the only stunt component of it in the past was

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Speaker 2: that the party that didn't have to vote for it

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Speaker 2: didn't vote for it.

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Speaker 3: Generally.

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Speaker 2: There were some principal senators who always voted for it always,

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Speaker 2: you know, no matter who was in power.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Now it's reached this madness level, which you know we

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Speaker 2: saw coming, you know, since election night last year.

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Speaker 1: I want you to talk me through this because I

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Speaker 1: feel like you have opinions on this too. So we

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Speaker 1: have this Kentucky Secretary of State Michael Adams, who won,

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Speaker 1: He won his primary conservative what worked with Bashir was

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Speaker 1: able to hold onto his seat through Republican primary. I mean, again,

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Speaker 1: this is in no way an endorsement, but more of

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Speaker 1: a question. Here's a candidate who did in a ruby

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Speaker 1: red state, who did actually sort of the Trump hast

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Speaker 1: made a run at him and didn't win. I mean,

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Speaker 1: do you think this is hopeful or do you just

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Speaker 1: get do you think this is just sort of one

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Speaker 1: of these things that happens.

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Speaker 2: It's hard to say yet whether it's a trend and

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Speaker 2: the balance of the electorate is relatively unchanged. I mean

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Speaker 2: the electorate. It's not like there's a lot of New

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Speaker 2: Yorkers who go, hey, I want to move to Kentucky,

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Speaker 2: you know, and so it's not one of those places

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Speaker 2: with a very dynamically changing demographic. It's a bit mysterious.

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Speaker 2: I mean, Kentucky has a democratic history. If you go

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Speaker 2: back far enough beyond the nineteen nineties, they all kind

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Speaker 2: of do those states. But I have a feeling that

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Speaker 2: those kinds of elections are very very much about the individual,

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Speaker 2: very much about the individual. When the Democrat wins in

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Speaker 2: the state that is generally not supportive of Democrats, it

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Speaker 2: tends to be the individual. Historically, that's what it has

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Speaker 2: tended to be. That doesn't mean it's something that's something

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Speaker 2: you can duplicate very easily.

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Speaker 1: Right, That's the question we're going to be watching in

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Speaker 1: those twenty four elections. Is the Trumpest fever breaking or

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Speaker 1: will they just keep losing?

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Speaker 2: So there are two factors in this coming election that

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Speaker 2: we've never had before. One is year eight of Trump, right,

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Speaker 2: And so I've always looked at administrations as TV series,

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Speaker 2: you know, and some of them run for four years,

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Speaker 2: which is respectable, and some of them run for eight years,

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Speaker 2: which is considered a very big success for TV series.

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Speaker 2: But what happens in all TV series is there becomes

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Speaker 2: a certain audience fatigue that sets in, and that's that's

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Speaker 2: why those series end. I mean, I think Er with

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Speaker 2: George started with George Clooney, you know, was his big break.

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Speaker 2: I think Er went like fourteen seasons and it was

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Speaker 2: a giant rated show. But you know, the last three years,

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Speaker 2: the line was just going down, you know, and the

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Speaker 2: show was the show was every bit as good as

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Speaker 2: it was in the in the first year, didn't have

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Speaker 2: George Clooney, so maybe not quite as good. That's kind

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Speaker 2: of the way it works, you know. There's a fatigue

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Speaker 2: that sets in with these people. So the Trump fatigue question,

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Speaker 2: which is a question for Republicans because Democrats have had

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Speaker 2: Trump fatigue since the second week of his first campaign, right.

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Speaker 1: That's right around when he came down that escalation.

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Speaker 2: Right, So there's the Trump fatigue question, how does it work,

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Speaker 2: what's the effect of it? And oh, by the way,

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Speaker 2: in an additional parentheses on the end of the Trump

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Speaker 2: fatigue question, it's the defendant Trump question. You know, the

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Speaker 2: criminal defendant. How many cases is he a criminal defendant

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Speaker 2: in while running for president? That's a weight we've never

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Speaker 2: seen before on a candidate. And then the other part

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Speaker 2: of it is Roe versus Way. That's the thing that

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Speaker 2: for you know, fifty years stabilized a certain aspect of

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Speaker 2: our politics. And there was a comfort that the people

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Speaker 2: who wanted Roe versus Way to stay in place, They

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Speaker 2: earned their their comfortable sensation that it would stay in place,

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Speaker 2: and they de energized as voters on that particular issue

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Speaker 2: because it was, from their perspective, quote taken care of,

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Speaker 2: and it's not. We've seen that that dynamic has produced

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Speaker 2: a voting energy that gets you to fifty one percent

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Speaker 2: in places where you know, you couldn't get out of

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Speaker 2: the forties before. Those are the big things, and each

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Speaker 2: one of them are things we've never had in our

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Speaker 2: politics before. You know, we've never had this Row versus Way.

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Speaker 2: It's been overturned. You know, what does that do at

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Speaker 2: the ballot box and the Trump fatigue factor at this

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Speaker 2: level of it, and with criminal defendant Trump running, and

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Speaker 2: so those all feel like negatives for the Republican side.

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Speaker 1: To put it mildly, Yeah, it's funny because you know,

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Speaker 1: I was talking to Mike Tamaski about the editor of

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Speaker 1: The New Republican. He was saying that he wondered and again,

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Speaker 1: we don't really know, we really don't know, and we're

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Speaker 1: so far out from the election, but that he could

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Speaker 1: you could see this going very badly for Trump.

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Speaker 2: I have a suggestion for renaming the podcast. Yes we

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Speaker 2: don't know with Maladjung Fast, our first guest, Lawrence at all,

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Speaker 2: the king of we don't know.

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Speaker 1: We wildly speculate because that's all we can do.

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Speaker 2: That's right, or yes, that's right, wild speculation with Malajung Fast.

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Speaker 1: Yes it's a little long. I want to ask you

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Speaker 1: about this idea. I read a pretty interesting article about

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Speaker 1: this idea of the judiciary being really at this point

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Speaker 1: creating more legislation than any of the legislative bodies.

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Speaker 3: Is it supposed to be this way?

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Speaker 2: It's been, you know, trending that way for fifty years.

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Speaker 2: You know, that's what that's what the argument was about

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Speaker 2: Roe versus. Way, was like, okay, we understand kind of

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Speaker 2: procedurally how it ended up here. But one of the

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Speaker 2: reasons that ended up in the Supreme Court is that

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Speaker 2: the Congress had done nothing on the subject. You know,

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Speaker 2: the Congress could have and they did absolutely nothing on

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Speaker 2: the subject. And by the way, they were greatly relieved.

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Speaker 2: You know, both sides were greatly relieved that the Republicans

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Speaker 2: and Democrats were thrilled that the Supreme Court took abortion

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Speaker 2: out of their hands so then they could just posture

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Speaker 2: on it and never had to do.

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Speaker 1: Anything right like immigration, right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they loved it.

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Speaker 2: And so yeah, it's been an increasing trend over time

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Speaker 2: for at least fifty years. Some people would argue, you know,

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Speaker 2: the Brown versus Board of Education is part is part

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Speaker 2: of that trend, like that should have been legislated. But

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Speaker 2: it goes into incredible levels of complexity in corporate law,

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Speaker 2: and there's all sorts of stuff that the Supreme Court's

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Speaker 2: doing every day, you know, that we don't even know

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Speaker 2: about because there's very very complex, you know, business litigation

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Speaker 2: in there that is in effect legislating, and it is

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Speaker 2: the current condition and the Congress during my lifetime just

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Speaker 2: chose willfully chose to become weaker and weaker. You know,

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Speaker 2: the phrase imperial presidency did not exist until the nineteen seventies,

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Speaker 2: and one of the things that made it exist was

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Speaker 2: we went to war. We lost over fifty thousand American

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Speaker 2: soldiers in war without a declaration of war. And the

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Speaker 2: one thing that you were absolutely sure of in the

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Speaker 2: Constitution is that the war making power belongs exclusively to

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Speaker 2: the Congress. And they gave it up, and they gave

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Speaker 2: it up willingly because they as weak politicians, they looked

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Speaker 2: at it and said, geez, that's really a tough decision.

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Speaker 2: I would prefer not to participate in the tough decisions.

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Speaker 2: So then you got this thing, you know called you know,

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Speaker 2: the executive authority of the president to just fire off

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Speaker 2: missiles literally anywhere in the world, like at any time,

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Speaker 2: right right, what do you want to you want to

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Speaker 2: hit Syria?

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Speaker 3: Go ahead? Do you have any authority to now?

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Speaker 2: We don't have a document now, And the Congress has

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Speaker 2: never objected to it because of their own weakness. They've

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Speaker 2: done that on a bunch of different fronts, and so

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Speaker 2: the executive and the judiciary have been you know, through

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Speaker 2: Congress's complicit weakness increasingly taking over legislative authorities.

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Speaker 1: Lawrence, thank you so much. I hope you will come back.

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Speaker 3: When I come back, I won't know anything.

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Speaker 1: Jake Achenclaus represents Massachusetts fourth District. Lucas Kuntz is running

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Speaker 1: from the Missouri Senate. So welcome Congressman Jake Auchenclous and

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Speaker 1: Lucas Kuntz. So you guys are here together because you

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Speaker 1: are filming a buddy comedy. No really tell us why

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Speaker 1: you have united to write an op ed together.

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Speaker 4: So first, Mallie, thanks for having me on. It's nice

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Speaker 4: to be back, and it's a real privilege to be

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Speaker 4: sharing the stage with Lucas. And January sixth, twenty twenty

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Speaker 4: one was my second day in Congress. It has imprinted

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Speaker 4: itself upon me in a lot of different ways, but

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Speaker 4: one of the defining images from that horrific day for

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Speaker 4: American democracy with Senator Josh Holly first raising his fist

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Speaker 4: in a petulant manner to the crowd, and then hours

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Speaker 4: later scurrying away from the mob, hiding behind the Capital Officers,

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Speaker 4: who he would later vote to defund in an act

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Speaker 4: of cowardice that really kind of sums up his approach

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Speaker 4: to politics, which is to say, this superficial, contrarian, smug

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Speaker 4: attitude to America's problems that is wholly unsubstantiated by anything

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Speaker 4: he actually does in office to help working people. And

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Speaker 4: Lucas and I are articulating that in plain language for

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Speaker 4: the American public to see and digest.

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Speaker 1: Lucas explained to us what you're how you got involved

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Speaker 1: in this?

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: So I'm running against Josh Holly right now for the

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Speaker 5: US Senate seat here in Missouri. I mean, look like

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Speaker 5: people are tired of fakers. We're tired of fakers everywhere,

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Speaker 5: We're especially tired of in Missouri. It's funny, you know,

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Speaker 5: his approval in Missouri's forty two, his disapprovals forty three.

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Speaker 5: He's underwater in a red state. Like that's an accomplishment, right,

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Speaker 5: And it's an accomplishment that he has pieved just based

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Speaker 5: on his own character, Like Jake says, right, like, the

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Speaker 5: guy's a fraud, he's a phony, and people don't like him.

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Speaker 5: And he does this like weird, fake, populous thing where

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Speaker 5: he claims that the Republican Party is going to be

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Speaker 5: the party of working people. But he goes against absolutely

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Speaker 5: everything that we need. And so for me, we know

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Speaker 5: what I want to talk about here, and what Jake

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Speaker 5: is bringing up to is that like this whole his

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Speaker 5: weird manhood stick, it's just getting creepy, and it's all

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Speaker 5: about his own power. What he wants to do is

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Speaker 5: tell people want to do what to do. He doesn't

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Speaker 5: want to give us the tools to do things on

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Speaker 5: our own. And that's what we need, is what people

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Speaker 5: in Missouri want. And so for me, you know, it's

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Speaker 5: a real opportunity kind of out here on the front

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Speaker 5: lines in the fight for democracy to make a stand,

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Speaker 5: to go against a guy who's faking it and you know,

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Speaker 5: win one for the good guys.

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Speaker 1: That is an incredible, incredible line. He also doesn't live

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Speaker 1: in Missouri, right.

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Speaker 5: I'm not going to judge any of this stuff. There's

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Speaker 5: lots of things out there people can look up what

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Speaker 5: they want to look up. For me, like, the real

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Speaker 5: critical part of this is really just hitting I mean,

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Speaker 5: maybe that's part of the fakeness, but the fakeness of

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Speaker 5: the things he says versus the things he does right.

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Speaker 5: And so for me, I grew up in a working

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Speaker 5: class neighborhood in Jeff City, Missouri. My family went bagbru

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Speaker 5: for medical bills. We really struggled. And the way we

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Speaker 5: made it is because in that neighborhood, people with no

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Speaker 5: more money than we had asked the plate for us.

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Speaker 5: Down at church, you know, they brought more tunic cast

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Speaker 5: role by the house than we could eat. And we

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Speaker 5: really were able to take care of each other. Everyone

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Speaker 5: there did that. Everyone in Missouri does that. And when

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Speaker 5: we don't have politicians like Josh Holly a dividing us

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Speaker 5: is many ways as they can and be defunding us

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Speaker 5: by taking away our opportunities to have meaningful work, our

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Speaker 5: opportunities to get a good wage, our opportunities to get

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Speaker 5: over time, and a bunch of other things like we

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Speaker 5: can take care of ourselves and we do a good

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Speaker 5: job of it. And so for me, this is about

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Speaker 5: empowering everyday people, investing in everybody every day people who

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Speaker 5: make this country strong, and going against his passions, which

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Speaker 5: is just like you know, in order to be a man,

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Speaker 5: you have to be more like me, which in itself

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Speaker 5: is just crazy.

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Speaker 1: Right Yeah, Jake Congressman, I can cross. Sorry, I'm always

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Speaker 1: want to stay fancy. I want to ask you you

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Speaker 1: both are veterans, can you talk to me about that.

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Speaker 4: One of the defining things that you learn in officer

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Speaker 4: candidate school and basic officer course and the entire Marine

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Speaker 4: Corps training pipeline is leadership by example first and foremost.

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Speaker 6: So don't tell people what to do.

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Speaker 4: Act in the manner that you wish other people would

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Speaker 4: know you for and whatem you. And again we see

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Speaker 4: with Senator Holly, you know, exemplified by January sixth, but

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Speaker 4: doubled down every day thereafter is he puts forward this

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Speaker 4: fake populist fervor, but acts totally differently in how he

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Speaker 4: actually votes and what he actually stands for. And so

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Speaker 4: just really not leadership by example at all. And then

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Speaker 4: the other thing you learn is officer z E last,

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Speaker 4: which is to say that it's only after every member

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Speaker 4: of the platoon has what they need food supplies, R

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Speaker 4: and R that an officer should see to their own

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Speaker 4: needs or comforts. And Washington could use a lot more

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Speaker 4: of that mentality, frankly overall, but certainly we need it

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Speaker 4: from people in positions like a senator from Missouri. I mean,

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Speaker 4: we've seen Holly vote against affordable care acts, vote against

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Speaker 4: better pay and overtime benefits for workers in Missouri. We've

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Speaker 4: seen him vote against the infrastructure and high tech manufacturing

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Speaker 4: bills that have doubled down on this country's economic strengths

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Speaker 4: and infrastructure. He just is not taking care and looking

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Speaker 4: out for the everyday American. He's looking out for himself

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Speaker 4: and his own political ambitions.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Lucas, will you explain to us just a little

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Speaker 1: bit about how being a veteran affects your running for

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Speaker 1: office and your governing?

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Speaker 5: Well, yeah, I mean a lot, is what Jake just said. Right,

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Speaker 5: you're leading for other people, and so for me. You know,

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Speaker 5: the whole reason that I joined the Marine Corps to

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Speaker 5: begin with is because when we were kids, this guy

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Speaker 5: who ran our parish church kitchen. Actually it's probably like

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Speaker 5: my little sister and I. We would volunteer at the

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Speaker 5: at the like soup kitchen nights, and he'd ask everybody

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Speaker 5: always like, Hey, what do you guys? What chores do

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Speaker 5: you want to do? You know, do you want to

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Speaker 5: set the table? Do you want to greet people? Do

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Speaker 5: you want to clear plates? What do you want to do?

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Speaker 5: And so my little sister and I were we always like, oh,

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Speaker 5: oh ow, we want to do the dishes we want

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Speaker 5: to do the dishes. And I was always like it

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Speaker 5: was wrong with these kids, like who want to do

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Speaker 5: the dishes?

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Speaker 6: That's crazy? And finally he figured it out that we

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Speaker 6: didn't have a.

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Speaker 5: Dish washing machine at our house, and with a family

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Speaker 5: of six, like, that's a real amount of toil you're

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Speaker 5: doing every night. They had dishwashers at the Paris and

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Speaker 5: so we thought we were scamming him, right, because we

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Speaker 5: just threw the place in there and locked away, like, ell,

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Speaker 5: such did it right? He chores here, and so I'll

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Speaker 5: figure that out. And one day, several years later, when

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Speaker 5: he renovated at his house, the dishwasher out.

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00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:23,600
Speaker 3: He put it into his big.

436
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:24,479
Speaker 6: Blue picked up frot.

437
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:26,680
Speaker 5: He brought it over our house and had it installed

438
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:29,240
Speaker 5: for us. Thing about al was he was a marine

439
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:33,040
Speaker 5: officer in Vietnam. He learned, you know, selfless care, taking

440
00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:35,720
Speaker 5: care of others, not asking for anything in return in

441
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:38,120
Speaker 5: the Marine Corps. And so you know, I joined because

442
00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:41,040
Speaker 5: I wanted to be like him. My thirteen years, i'd

443
00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:43,359
Speaker 5: live up to the standard he helped. And it's like

444
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:46,320
Speaker 5: Jake said, we need more members of Congress who are

445
00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:49,320
Speaker 5: there to invest in other people, like all invested in us.

446
00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:51,520
Speaker 5: He saved us forty five minutes of hard labor every

447
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:53,439
Speaker 5: single night. Right that the way we could focus on

448
00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:56,040
Speaker 5: school or whatever else like these are the types of

449
00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:58,720
Speaker 5: small investments that we can also make it a big scale,

450
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 5: and then people like Josh Holly again, they are not

451
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:05,400
Speaker 5: willing to make He never learned real leadership. His Manhood

452
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:08,359
Speaker 5: book is about telling people what to do. It's not

453
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:11,240
Speaker 5: about showing them. It's not about empowering them, and it's

454
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:14,640
Speaker 5: not about giving folks the resources to live their lives

455
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:16,280
Speaker 5: in a manner where we can all take care of

456
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:16,720
Speaker 5: each other.

457
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:17,359
Speaker 6: Mollie.

458
00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:21,520
Speaker 4: It's also worth noting what is right beneath the surface

459
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:25,639
Speaker 4: of Senator Holly's definition of manhood, and at times actually

460
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:28,000
Speaker 4: has been made explicit, which is that he'd used it

461
00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 4: a zero sum calculation. With the empowerment of women in

462
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:36,199
Speaker 4: this country, he basically thinks that every step forward that

463
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:39,280
Speaker 4: women take in terms of empowerment in the workplace, in

464
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:43,080
Speaker 4: control over their own bodies, in their ability to have

465
00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:45,240
Speaker 4: more agency in our economy and society, some of the

466
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 4: real achievements of the last fifty years. His worldview is

467
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:52,920
Speaker 4: that every step forward is necessarily a step backwards for men,

468
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:58,480
Speaker 4: and that is a dangerous worldview because his definition of

469
00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:01,600
Speaker 4: manhood is saying, we've got to roll back the clock

470
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:04,960
Speaker 4: for women in this country. And that's not just rhetoric.

471
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 4: As we've seen over the last several years. We've got

472
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:10,560
Speaker 4: a Supreme Court that, especially if empowered by the Senate,

473
00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 4: wants to start doing that.

474
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:14,359
Speaker 1: Yeah. One of the things that I think is so

475
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:20,720
Speaker 1: interesting about these Trumpers is that they're actually like less

476
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:25,400
Speaker 1: progressive than the United States military, which I think is interesting.

477
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:27,040
Speaker 1: You know, I'm sure you guys talk about this all

478
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:30,119
Speaker 1: the time. There's a lot of these Trump Republicans attack

479
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 1: the military for things like, you know, just being sort

480
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:35,960
Speaker 1: of you know, if you're a woman and you work

481
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:38,760
Speaker 1: hard in the military, you sort of have the same experiences.

482
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:41,920
Speaker 1: I mean, you largely are able to get the same

483
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:44,440
Speaker 1: kind of promotions that the men are. And I think

484
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:49,920
Speaker 1: that some of that kind of equality is really infuriating

485
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:51,200
Speaker 1: to the Magro Republicans.

486
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:54,760
Speaker 4: Well, Molly, it's actually it's become even more dangerous than that.

487
00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:58,120
Speaker 4: We've seen Senator Tuberville of Alabama, who is cut from

488
00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:01,399
Speaker 4: the same cloth as Senator Holly. He is with holding

489
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:06,560
Speaker 4: up through senatorial privilege hundreds of senior military promotions in

490
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:09,879
Speaker 4: the Indo Pacific because he's having a tantrum over the

491
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:15,040
Speaker 4: military's abortion policy. And this is unprecedented. Even Senate Minority

492
00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 4: Leader Mitch McConnell, not exactly a paragon of progressive values,

493
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:23,200
Speaker 4: has said it's inappropriate and it's directly threatening national security

494
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:25,399
Speaker 4: at a time in the United States needs to stand tall,

495
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:28,800
Speaker 4: both in terms of military posture and in planning an

496
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:32,359
Speaker 4: organizational competence in the Indo Pacific against the CCP and

497
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,479
Speaker 4: their designs on the Taiwan Straight and the South China Sea.

498
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:38,399
Speaker 4: We've got one senator from Alabama who's so mad that

499
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:41,360
Speaker 4: women have control over their own reproductive decisions that he

500
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:44,560
Speaker 4: is threatening our entire national security. That is the direction

501
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 4: that the MAGA wing of the Senate GOP wants to

502
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 4: take in terms of politicizing the military. And you can

503
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 4: bet that Senator Holly will be an enthusiastic participant in that.

504
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:54,360
Speaker 6: I mean, he's.

505
00:27:54,200 --> 00:28:00,480
Speaker 4: Already, for example, opposed aid to Ukraine, opposed Finland Sweden

506
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 4: joining NATO. I mean, these are slam dunk issues in

507
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:08,760
Speaker 4: the Senate Conference, the Senate GOP conference, and yet out

508
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:11,200
Speaker 4: of his desire to be contrarying and build his own

509
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 4: political ambitions up. He really has run against the grain

510
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:17,840
Speaker 4: of core American security priorities.

511
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:21,080
Speaker 1: So tell Us Lucas one of the things I'm always

512
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:25,040
Speaker 1: interested in, And we just had Colin on this podcast.

513
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:29,640
Speaker 1: We were talking about how actually Ted Cruz only kept

514
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:33,200
Speaker 1: his seat by three points. So tell Us Lucas how

515
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:36,919
Speaker 1: you can win in a red state which did have

516
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 1: a Democratic senator pretty recently.

517
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:41,479
Speaker 5: Right, I mean, we actually had all Democrats, almost all

518
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 5: Democrats state wides up through twenty seventeen. We lost our

519
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 5: last one this year. Actually she didn't run again for

520
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:50,520
Speaker 5: the state order And yeah, I mean it's a state

521
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:52,200
Speaker 5: where people are willing to go both ways. I mean,

522
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:54,000
Speaker 5: when you look at some of the ballot measures we've

523
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 5: passed lately, people are shocked. Right, Like Missouri overturns the

524
00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 5: anti union right to work at ballot initiatives sixty eight

525
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:04,520
Speaker 5: percent to thirty two percent. Holly was on the wrong

526
00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:07,480
Speaker 5: side of that. We increased our minimum wage five dollars

527
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:10,920
Speaker 5: over the federal level. We passed a legalization of first

528
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 5: medical and then recreational Milrijuana. We expanded medicaid again. All

529
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:17,720
Speaker 5: of these things over the politicians. And so while we

530
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:21,040
Speaker 5: have a very like progressive or even populous streak, which

531
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 5: is what ally take the crime to happen into, we

532
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 5: also got people that are willing to vote the opposite

533
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,400
Speaker 5: way on politicians. Again, I talked about people who were

534
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 5: all recently elected. But even in twenty sixteen, the last

535
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 5: time we had a Senate race with the presidential race

536
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:38,040
Speaker 5: here in Missouri, Chasing Candor came within three points of

537
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:41,840
Speaker 5: getting Roy Blind when Donald Trump here won by seventeen points.

538
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:44,920
Speaker 5: And so it's stay where people will vote based on

539
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 5: the person. And I say, right now, Holly's way less

540
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:50,080
Speaker 5: popular than Roy Blunt was at the time. Jason Candor

541
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:52,120
Speaker 5: was an Afghanistan veteran. You know, I'm a veteran of

542
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 5: Iraq and Afghanistan. So we're kind of similar in many ways.

543
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:57,760
Speaker 5: And we just have a situation where you have a

544
00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 5: very unpopular guy who can't raise money.

545
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:01,920
Speaker 6: I mean, you know, Jake was talking.

546
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 5: About how these guys will do all these things against

547
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:08,400
Speaker 5: American interests in order to be conveying and get campaign capital.

548
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 5: And it's true, like in the publicing campaigns right now,

549
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 5: there's only two sources of capital, right it's corporate money

550
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:17,880
Speaker 5: or it's culture war capital. And so Josh Holly, he's

551
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:21,440
Speaker 5: already tossed away the corporate money because on January sixth,

552
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 5: they decided to flee him. That's how he originally got in,

553
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:26,760
Speaker 5: and now he's leaning in on the cultural side, but

554
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:29,200
Speaker 5: he's doing it in just such like a creepy way,

555
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 5: with like this manhood book and everything else that actually

556
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 5: just turns people off. That's why he's unpopular. So, oh,

557
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 5: we got a real exciting opportunity that I'm I'm decited

558
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 5: to roll all the way to.

559
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:41,720
Speaker 1: Yet, tell us a little bit about your friendship, because

560
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 1: this is pretty interesting.

561
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 4: First and foremost Marines just always watch out for one another,

562
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 4: and we connected Lucas and I because for as long

563
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:53,719
Speaker 4: as I've been in Congress, and especially since January sixth,

564
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:57,480
Speaker 4: I've seen Senator Holly as emblematic of so much of

565
00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:01,720
Speaker 4: what's wrong in this town and have been eager for

566
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 4: a candidate of the quality of Lucas, who's got the

567
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 4: work ethic, who's got the biography, got the strategy to

568
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 4: unseat this guy and actually bring authentic, principled representation for

569
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:13,800
Speaker 4: the great site of Missouri.

570
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:16,480
Speaker 5: Thanks Jake, yeah, we almost thank you card. Thanks Josh

571
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 5: Holly for sucking so much, bringing us together and making

572
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 5: this seat so imminently winnable.

573
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:24,920
Speaker 3: Great guy.

574
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:30,640
Speaker 1: Well, I do really hope that this works out for you, guys,

575
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 1: and I do hope you'll take this buddy comedy on

576
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:36,240
Speaker 1: the road because it's much needed for this moment.

577
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:37,040
Speaker 6: Well, me too.

578
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:38,960
Speaker 5: You know, Jake just had a baby though, so we

579
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:40,520
Speaker 5: gotta see how that plays out.

580
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:43,480
Speaker 6: Congratulations, my king, thank you. Yeah, my leash is pretty

581
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 6: short these days.

582
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:45,520
Speaker 4: I think my wife's tolerance for a.

583
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:49,720
Speaker 5: Road show with callavancing around the country is a little well,

584
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:52,760
Speaker 5: I just.

585
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 1: Want to get back to this seat for one more second. Lucas,

586
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:57,719
Speaker 1: what do you need right now?

587
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:01,240
Speaker 5: So right now we're obviously doing a big and publicity

588
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 5: push around the campaign around Holly's book and all the terrible.

589
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:05,480
Speaker 6: Things he's doing.

590
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 5: So if people would follow us on Twitter, it's Lucas

591
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 5: Koont's m so Lucas ay you n ce m o.

592
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:15,840
Speaker 5: You can see what we're up to, you kind of

593
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:18,680
Speaker 5: follow what we're tracking. We always need donations. You can

594
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 5: give those at lucascoons dot com. We actually raised three

595
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 5: times from donations. What Holly did last quarter. Again, the

596
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:26,960
Speaker 5: guy he's run out of that sort of capital and

597
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 5: he's just banking on culture capital.

598
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:30,080
Speaker 6: So we're gonna have a real opportunity to go after

599
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 6: him there.

600
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 5: And just otherwise, if Missouri spread the word, if you

601
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:36,120
Speaker 5: know anybody in Missouri, spread the word. There's a real

602
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:39,320
Speaker 5: grassroots component of this campaign that we want to make

603
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 5: sure we get out there.

604
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 1: And you're going to every district.

605
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:44,840
Speaker 6: Done. Oh, we're in every small town.

606
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 5: I'll tell you what. We went to Freeberg the other

607
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:49,920
Speaker 5: day a year and a half before the election, and

608
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 5: there's a town of four hundred people, and one hundred

609
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 5: folks came out to the American Legion there to see us.

610
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 6: So we're going everywhere. We're getting there and we're getting

611
00:32:57,040 --> 00:32:57,440
Speaker 6: good crowd.

612
00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 1: It's nice, fantastic. Well, good luck to you and thanks.

613
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:02,440
Speaker 1: I hope you both will come back of course.

614
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:03,560
Speaker 6: Mollie, thanks take care.

615
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:09,760
Speaker 1: Hi. It's Mollie and I am wildly excited that for

616
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:14,360
Speaker 1: the first time, Fast Politics, the show you're listening to

617
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:17,640
Speaker 1: right now, is going to have merch for sale over

618
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Speaker 1: at shop dot fastpoliticspod dot com. You can now buy shirts, hats, hoodies,

619
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Speaker 1: and toe bags with our incredible Designs. We've heard your

620
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Speaker 1: cries to spread the word about our podcast and get

621
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:40,560
Speaker 1: a tow bag with my adorable Leo the Rescue puppy

622
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Speaker 1: on it. And now you can grab this merchandise only

623
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Speaker 1: at shop dot fastpoliticspod dot com. Thanks for your support.

624
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:58,560
Speaker 1: Sam Brody is a congressional reporter for The Daily Beast.

625
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 1: Welcome to Fastolick, Sam Brody.

626
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:02,959
Speaker 6: Thank you so much for having me.

627
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:06,280
Speaker 1: You are a fan favorite. I am very excited you

628
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:10,239
Speaker 1: are in the halls of Congress. It's all happening. How

629
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:15,320
Speaker 1: many people has Marjorie Taylor Green tried to impeach this week?

630
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:18,320
Speaker 6: There's how many people she's actually tried to impeach, and

631
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 6: then how many people she said she's going to impeach?

632
00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 6: So I started losing count at like three or four.

633
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:29,920
Speaker 1: She filed articles of impeachment today against Biden, Now that's.

634
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 6: Right, she did, and it was all centered on immigration

635
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,719
Speaker 6: and the border. So maybe she's saving some more impeachment

636
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 6: articles they have to do with Unterbiden's laptop or things

637
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 6: of that nature. But it was surprisingly, it was surprisingly targeted.

638
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:48,080
Speaker 6: When I was looking those over this morning.

639
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:52,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, incredible stuff. You are in Congress. You are there

640
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:57,799
Speaker 1: in the halls of power, the venerable, whatever. Just tell

641
00:34:57,840 --> 00:34:58,799
Speaker 1: me what's going on there.

642
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:02,880
Speaker 6: Oh, there's a lot that's going on right now in Congress.

643
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:06,040
Speaker 6: It's a pretty busy time. You have like these big picture,

644
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:09,440
Speaker 6: extremely important, like macro level things that are happening, namely

645
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:13,799
Speaker 6: avoiding a catastrophic default on the US federal debt.

646
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 1: I've heard about that.

647
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:17,239
Speaker 6: You may have seen this in the nearest and then

648
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:19,680
Speaker 6: you have these just like insane little Grandma's playing out.

649
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:23,040
Speaker 6: And by that I'm talking about you know, one particular

650
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:25,839
Speaker 6: freshman congressman from New York who you're stairs may be

651
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:26,560
Speaker 6: familiar with.

652
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:33,719
Speaker 1: Oh, tell me more about the congressman from Nassau County one.

653
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:36,439
Speaker 1: And we don't even really know that that's his real name,

654
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:37,440
Speaker 1: George Santos.

655
00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:40,480
Speaker 6: We don't actually know. I mean, I don't take anything

656
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:42,759
Speaker 6: for granted at this point. And these things inter sect too,

657
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:46,400
Speaker 6: because George Santos is a key swing vote for Speaker

658
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:49,480
Speaker 6: Kevin McCarthy, which continues to be which continues to be

659
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:53,239
Speaker 6: startup hilarious. Right, So, yesterday Democrats tried something interesting, which

660
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:58,279
Speaker 6: was they put forward what's called a privileged resolution to

661
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:02,480
Speaker 6: expel George Santo from Congress, and a privilege resolution is

662
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:06,280
Speaker 6: a sort of rare tool in that it actually forces action.

663
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:08,640
Speaker 6: You can't just file it and people can ignore it

664
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:10,960
Speaker 6: and forget it. It has to be addressed in one

665
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:13,239
Speaker 6: way or the other. And so Democrats kind of up

666
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:17,320
Speaker 6: the ante with that with obviously George Hittos being indicted

667
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:22,000
Speaker 6: on criminal charges, and so what Republicans did was instead

668
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:24,440
Speaker 6: of kind of just taking it as an up or

669
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:28,360
Speaker 6: down vote, they reframed it as a as emotion to

670
00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:33,279
Speaker 6: refer the matter of Santos's expulsion to the House Ethics Committee.

671
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 6: So Republicans, like a lot of them, don't want Satos

672
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:37,799
Speaker 6: to be there, but they don't want to have to

673
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:41,360
Speaker 6: take this vote. And importantly, Kevin McCarthy come and needs

674
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:44,359
Speaker 6: his vote for the time being. And so yesterday all

675
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:48,160
Speaker 6: Republicans did vote to refer the matter to House Ethics,

676
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:52,400
Speaker 6: which is famous for taking an extremely long time to

677
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:53,880
Speaker 6: literally do anything.

678
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 1: And I want to point out the statistics on House Ethics.

679
00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 1: Have they ever found anyone guilty?

680
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:05,880
Speaker 6: Ever? They actually have, They have what penalties on members

681
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:10,720
Speaker 6: in the past, but usually after very very very long investigations.

682
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:17,240
Speaker 1: Right, so the chances that Santos would be censured before

683
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:19,920
Speaker 1: his term was up, seems unlikely.

684
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:23,719
Speaker 6: There's an existing precedent that that members have woing ty,

685
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:28,200
Speaker 6: which is that Congress has not expelled a member until

686
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:32,440
Speaker 6: their criminal proceedings were basically until they were convicted guilty,

687
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:35,799
Speaker 6: and so they're holding to that. President though I think

688
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 6: there's plenty of people who'd argue that asked examples, you

689
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:41,000
Speaker 6: know they're bad. Obviously it's members who wrote the law.

690
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:44,120
Speaker 6: But insider trading, okay, that's not good. This use of

691
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:47,279
Speaker 6: campaign funds, that's not good. Well, Santo's I mean, you

692
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:49,080
Speaker 6: don't even know where to begin. And there's people who

693
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:52,680
Speaker 6: make a point that it's it's actively, actively bad and

694
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 6: dangerous to have this guy in Congress, and so therefore

695
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:59,960
Speaker 6: past precedent should not apply. Maybe Republicans didn't find that persuasive,

696
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:03,040
Speaker 6: but there's a lot of interest in upholding the precedent

697
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:06,320
Speaker 6: and then also ensuring that they don't often do anything

698
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 6: about this right right now. So so DJ is going

699
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:12,640
Speaker 6: to pursue it's it's thing. But interestingly, how Ethics has

700
00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 6: said that they're not going to pause their investigation on

701
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:20,239
Speaker 6: Sanatos while DJ is acting, which is unusual. So I

702
00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:23,439
Speaker 6: don't know what that'll mean, but you know, there could

703
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:26,080
Speaker 6: be more that House Ethics is looking into that maybe

704
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:28,800
Speaker 6: is outside the scope of DJ He could be facing

705
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:32,200
Speaker 6: some problems. I think we can definitively say that.

706
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:35,759
Speaker 1: That's a really sad story. And also whatever I mean,

707
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:39,200
Speaker 1: he certainly has some kind of legal you know, exposure

708
00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:42,520
Speaker 1: for all his criming. But the thing that makes me

709
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:47,680
Speaker 1: so bummed out is how a Democrat lost this seat.

710
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:50,840
Speaker 6: It's pretty baffling when you look at the history of

711
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:53,360
Speaker 6: that scene, what the dynamics were, and it was the

712
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:58,040
Speaker 6: story really across sort of New York, right, New York State. Yeah,

713
00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:01,200
Speaker 6: that wasn't even the most product leading seat that a

714
00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:05,600
Speaker 6: Republican won in twenty twenty two. And you know, I

715
00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:07,799
Speaker 6: think about it all the time. I mean, this guy

716
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:10,600
Speaker 6: was sort of hiding in plain sight and the kind

717
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:13,400
Speaker 6: of lies that heats. Bold were just not accustomed to

718
00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:18,520
Speaker 6: that level of insane fabrication. Usually, you know, obviously, when

719
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 6: somebody says I worked here, here's where I went to school,

720
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:24,120
Speaker 6: you know, you want to it should be checked out.

721
00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:27,160
Speaker 6: But it's just so rare to see the level of fabrication.

722
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:29,279
Speaker 6: And then by the time it was caught. It was

723
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:30,200
Speaker 6: it was too late.

724
00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:30,719
Speaker 3: You know.

725
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:34,440
Speaker 6: I think what's interesting is like what Santos's endgame really is.

726
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:37,239
Speaker 6: You know, He's continuing to draw a salary. We know

727
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:39,759
Speaker 6: this is important to him, given that he filed for

728
00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:43,480
Speaker 6: unemployment while actually having a job, or that's he's allegedly

729
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:45,440
Speaker 6: vlaw by doing that.

730
00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:50,399
Speaker 1: He had signed onto a bell two. That was, yeah,

731
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:54,800
Speaker 1: can you tell us explain that, because that's a fascinating wrinkle.

732
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:56,920
Speaker 6: It's one of the many just sort of like you

733
00:39:57,000 --> 00:40:00,400
Speaker 6: can't make it up. Ironies to Santos's sort of brief

734
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:03,920
Speaker 6: life in Congress. But when Republicans were negotiating and passing this,

735
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:07,000
Speaker 6: you know, their version of the Duck ceiling spending bill,

736
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:10,920
Speaker 6: George Santos was the loudest voice in that entire group

737
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:15,400
Speaker 6: pushing for work requirements for you know, federal benefits to

738
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:17,600
Speaker 6: be stricter. He was like, no, we got to do

739
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:19,360
Speaker 6: you know, you got to work at these thirty hours

740
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:22,120
Speaker 6: a week to get this, like this is my red line.

741
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:24,960
Speaker 6: And people are like, all right, George Santos, okay. And

742
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:29,120
Speaker 6: then he was a lead sponsor of legislation that would

743
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:31,959
Speaker 6: you know, the goal of the legislation was to crack

744
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:37,399
Speaker 6: down on people who had abused pandemic unemployment benefits. So

745
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:44,320
Speaker 6: fast forward, George Santos is literally indicted functuately using pandemic

746
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:49,080
Speaker 6: unemployment benefits as he sponsored this legislation to crave down

747
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:52,240
Speaker 6: on people like him, and then you know it puts

748
00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:54,600
Speaker 6: his whole work requirements bush in a totally different date.

749
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:56,239
Speaker 6: The reason is the question like what the hell is

750
00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:58,160
Speaker 6: this guy doing and what is his end game? And

751
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:01,040
Speaker 6: I've looked at like what he's done. He's tried to

752
00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:03,319
Speaker 6: be kind of maga, but he's also tried to be

753
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:06,759
Speaker 6: like this kind of pro labor union New York sort

754
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:10,920
Speaker 6: of swing Republican. He can't really decide like what his

755
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:14,280
Speaker 6: tribe is, and so he's sort of just thrown spaghetti

756
00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:16,040
Speaker 6: at the wall to see what sticks and to change

757
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:19,120
Speaker 6: the subject from this sort of endless you know, this

758
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:22,680
Speaker 6: endless pariadi of scanals and out legal action that he faces.

759
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:28,640
Speaker 1: One of the things that somebody said about Santos a

760
00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:31,919
Speaker 1: journalist who is covering the house, and I'm curious if

761
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:35,360
Speaker 1: this tracks is what you've seen, is that when he

762
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:38,200
Speaker 1: got to the house, he was very and this is

763
00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:40,320
Speaker 1: something I've seen in the reporting about him. He was

764
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:45,719
Speaker 1: quite quiet, a little bit nervous, pretty uncomfortable. And then

765
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:49,960
Speaker 1: he sort of discovered that the Maga Caucus is you know,

766
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:54,520
Speaker 1: cannot be shamed, is unshamable, has that same kind of

767
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:59,239
Speaker 1: trumpy inability to be held responsible for things they do,

768
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:01,799
Speaker 1: and he joined with those guys.

769
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:05,160
Speaker 6: Yeah, exactly, and he quickly found that crew. I mean,

770
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:07,280
Speaker 6: the first few days he's sort of sitting by himself

771
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:10,160
Speaker 6: during the speaker about and it was like on TV

772
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:12,279
Speaker 6: for everyone to see him sort of sitting alone at

773
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:15,360
Speaker 6: the lunch table. But then you know, he gravitated towards

774
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:17,440
Speaker 6: the people in the Maga caccaus, you know, many of

775
00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:20,920
Speaker 6: whom have faced their own sort of accusations of the engultraveils,

776
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:24,439
Speaker 6: and he kind of settled into these folks and yeah,

777
00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:27,480
Speaker 6: you know, it's been interesting to watch Santo's even adopt,

778
00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:30,880
Speaker 6: you know, the Trumpean language, you know, tweeting witch hunt

779
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 6: in response, as you know, if he thinks grabs on target.

780
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:38,080
Speaker 6: Who knows that the Republican Party is kind of so

781
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:40,000
Speaker 6: bulable to think that if you just say witch hunt

782
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:42,719
Speaker 6: whenever you're keys that are doing anything bad that you

783
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:44,800
Speaker 6: know you're you're gonna be fine, But I'm waited to

784
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:47,840
Speaker 6: bet that Versantos is probably not held in the esteem

785
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:50,719
Speaker 6: in the Republican Party that Donald Trump is. And you know,

786
00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:54,360
Speaker 6: it's been interesting to watch Santos' I think you're starting

787
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:58,040
Speaker 6: to see Republicans like really really lose their patience with

788
00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:00,600
Speaker 6: him in the building. I think at first he was

789
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:04,080
Speaker 6: sort of this like distracting amusement, and now he's being

790
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:08,400
Speaker 6: charged with serious crimes. Democrats are needling them over it,

791
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:10,600
Speaker 6: and like I think this week there was a palpable

792
00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:14,880
Speaker 6: sense of exasperation, like this guy just needs a fucking resign, Like, right,

793
00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:17,279
Speaker 6: what is he going to get by by being here?

794
00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:19,520
Speaker 6: Because no matter which way you slice it, he's not

795
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:23,600
Speaker 6: long that for that building, whether he's you know, convicted,

796
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:26,360
Speaker 6: or whether he's going to be defeated in a primary

797
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:29,720
Speaker 6: election next year. I mean, there's just no good ending

798
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:32,680
Speaker 6: to this for him, and so maybe he's just trying

799
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:34,759
Speaker 6: to write it out like his pateent, right, you know,

800
00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:35,720
Speaker 6: until the end comes.

801
00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:40,560
Speaker 1: The fundamental problem Republicans have, right, is that they're saying

802
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:44,000
Speaker 1: that Trump can do stuff like this because he's popular,

803
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:47,040
Speaker 1: and Santos can't because he just doesn't come from a

804
00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:50,480
Speaker 1: red enough district. I mean, that's the moral problem these

805
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:51,399
Speaker 1: Republicans have.

806
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:56,520
Speaker 6: Santo's is famous because like literally because of all the

807
00:43:56,560 --> 00:43:59,640
Speaker 6: crazy stuff that he's done. You know, this is his

808
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:02,840
Speaker 6: intire reputation at this point, and I think when it

809
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:05,919
Speaker 6: gets there, the idea that this is like some sort

810
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:08,439
Speaker 6: of witch hunting is like, I don't know who sees

811
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:11,759
Speaker 6: that tweeting those, Yeah, they're really how to get this guy.

812
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:14,239
Speaker 6: I mean, like, you know, this is the same week

813
00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:17,480
Speaker 6: that he needed guilty and I guess at Brazilian court

814
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:19,400
Speaker 6: to stuff he'd been charged with there.

815
00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:21,839
Speaker 1: So I don't want to beat a dead horser. But

816
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:25,160
Speaker 1: it's not so different than Trump. I mean, like Eugene

817
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:28,640
Speaker 1: is the standout and he's got twenty six allegations. I mean,

818
00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:32,440
Speaker 1: the guy has you know, he led an insurrection. I mean,

819
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:35,880
Speaker 1: you know where there's smoke and smoke and smoke and

820
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:38,280
Speaker 1: smoke and it's burning, there's fire.

821
00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:41,360
Speaker 6: Yeah, And I think there is a fundamental similarity. And

822
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:44,279
Speaker 6: like what did Trump sort of show other politicians that

823
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:49,120
Speaker 6: if you just deny, obstruct, deflect, change the subject, attack,

824
00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:52,239
Speaker 6: when these things happen, you'll make it through. And I

825
00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:54,359
Speaker 6: think that is a really important lesson, and you've seen

826
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:58,760
Speaker 6: politicians adapt to that and take that lesson. But people

827
00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:01,440
Speaker 6: like George Santos have a shorter in rental day to

828
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:03,640
Speaker 6: get away with that than a Donald Trump.

829
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:04,320
Speaker 3: Then a Donald Trump.

830
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:08,920
Speaker 6: And also just I mean the staggering, the staggering array

831
00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:12,319
Speaker 6: of stock that George Santos has piled up that you

832
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:13,960
Speaker 6: just really can make up.

833
00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:17,439
Speaker 1: So talk to me about the discharge petition Biden has

834
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:21,280
Speaker 1: to negotiate with probably the dumbest speaker of the House's

835
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:23,440
Speaker 1: ever had. I'm just going to say that for me

836
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:25,640
Speaker 1: because I'm on the opinion side, so I can say

837
00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:28,520
Speaker 1: stuff like that. The Republicans have said, like if you

838
00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:32,799
Speaker 1: use the fourteenth Amendment, will you do something horrible to you?

839
00:45:33,239 --> 00:45:37,040
Speaker 1: But there is also this tool of the discharge petition.

840
00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:39,720
Speaker 1: Tell us about the discharge petition.

841
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:42,920
Speaker 6: It's another one of those like congressional mechanisms that can

842
00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:46,560
Speaker 6: force something to get to the floor whether the majority

843
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:50,080
Speaker 6: leadership wants it to or not. And it's been used

844
00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:52,719
Speaker 6: various times in the past, sometimes even by members of

845
00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:56,520
Speaker 6: the majority party. Since really the beginning of the Republican

846
00:45:56,640 --> 00:45:59,439
Speaker 6: majority in the House, people have been talking about using

847
00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:02,600
Speaker 6: a discharge or petition. It requires a certain number of signatures,

848
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:05,000
Speaker 6: and then it starts this process to force a bill

849
00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:07,640
Speaker 6: to the floor. There is talk about using that to

850
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:11,879
Speaker 6: get a debt ceiling extension to the floor, thinking that,

851
00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:14,440
Speaker 6: you know, Republicans were not going to be able to

852
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:16,200
Speaker 6: get their act together and that there would be this

853
00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:18,040
Speaker 6: springmanship and that there would need to be some kind

854
00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:22,120
Speaker 6: of offering to that. So Democrats this week started that

855
00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:26,000
Speaker 6: process of the discharge petition, thinking was, you need majority

856
00:46:26,239 --> 00:46:28,360
Speaker 6: in the House to do it. So if every Democrat

857
00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:32,680
Speaker 6: joined with like six Republicans, five republicans, rights, right, that

858
00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:35,759
Speaker 6: they could do it. Here's the problem is the way

859
00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:39,080
Speaker 6: this thing works, like the actual like dotting the eyes,

860
00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:42,520
Speaker 6: crossing the t's of this takes a very long time.

861
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:45,359
Speaker 6: And so if they had wanted to really have this

862
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:48,040
Speaker 6: as a live option, they would have had to do

863
00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:50,000
Speaker 6: it months ago, because like, right now.

864
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:51,799
Speaker 1: Why does it take so long?

865
00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:55,440
Speaker 6: Oh gosh, it's like I don't think it's like it

866
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:56,720
Speaker 6: just takes a long time.

867
00:46:56,880 --> 00:47:01,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, it needs to go to different members needs well, they.

868
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:04,160
Speaker 6: Need to get the signature is a and then like

869
00:47:04,719 --> 00:47:07,120
Speaker 6: there's some like kind of parliamentary stuff that I don't

870
00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:09,359
Speaker 6: even like quite fully understand. I just know that, like

871
00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:11,319
Speaker 6: it just takes time. There's like no way you can

872
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:14,719
Speaker 6: aass track it, you know, as folks know, it's forecast

873
00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:17,640
Speaker 6: that sometime in June the Treasury's going to hit the

874
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:21,000
Speaker 6: actual hard borrowing commit at which point there would be

875
00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:23,880
Speaker 6: there would be a default if if it's not extended.

876
00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:26,040
Speaker 6: So they don't have time to do this right now.

877
00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:29,240
Speaker 6: So could this become relevant if say the two sides

878
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:32,840
Speaker 6: agree to like a short term extension, say give it

879
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:36,279
Speaker 6: another month, right, However, like, could it become relevant? It's

880
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:39,560
Speaker 6: it's possible. But I think the other really relevant thing

881
00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:42,799
Speaker 6: is that I've been surprised by how unified Republicans have

882
00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:46,279
Speaker 6: been so far behind McCarthy from kind of both his

883
00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:48,960
Speaker 6: like you know, center right flight to like the far

884
00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:52,279
Speaker 6: right flank. They are sort of giving him room to

885
00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:55,600
Speaker 6: do this. And I don't think that any Republican would

886
00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:59,200
Speaker 6: sign on to the discharge right now, because that would

887
00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:01,920
Speaker 6: be really a shot across about a McCarthy basically saying

888
00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:04,920
Speaker 6: we would trust you to get this done, you're risking default.

889
00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:07,160
Speaker 6: We're going to go with the Democrats and get this

890
00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:09,120
Speaker 6: thing on the floor. I don't think any of them

891
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:11,239
Speaker 6: are inclined to do that, right now.

892
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:15,400
Speaker 1: Do you think that McCarthy is going to allow a default?

893
00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:17,600
Speaker 6: That's right? You asked this, I was, I was asking

894
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:21,520
Speaker 6: Republican members yesterday. You might have caught Donald Trump's comment

895
00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:24,000
Speaker 6: at this hand on Hall that we could just do

896
00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:24,960
Speaker 6: a little default, you know.

897
00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:27,759
Speaker 1: Right, yes, I did, you just do a little bit

898
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:30,520
Speaker 1: of that. Why should he run the country any different

899
00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:32,040
Speaker 1: than he runs his business?

900
00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:34,520
Speaker 6: Right, right, just have a little default, it's fine. And

901
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:38,359
Speaker 6: every Republican will tell you, like, no, like, that's not

902
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:42,240
Speaker 6: how this works. We don't want a default. Yeah, as folks,

903
00:48:42,239 --> 00:48:45,160
Speaker 6: you know, Democrats will point out, like, the only reason

904
00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:48,359
Speaker 6: they're negotiating stance is credible? Is it because people have

905
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:51,719
Speaker 6: to believe that, like they would default if they didn't

906
00:48:51,719 --> 00:48:55,280
Speaker 6: get what they wanted, And so McCarthy is walking that line.

907
00:48:55,440 --> 00:48:58,360
Speaker 6: The thing that's so important here is Democrats are playing

908
00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:00,880
Speaker 6: ball in a way that I think, frankly, is surprising

909
00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:03,520
Speaker 6: even to some of the party. Biden started by saying

910
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:05,680
Speaker 6: we're not going to negotiate at all. Then he said

911
00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:07,680
Speaker 6: we're not going to negotiate on the debt limit, but

912
00:49:07,719 --> 00:49:11,319
Speaker 6: we'll negotiate on the budget. Two different things, right, now

913
00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:13,840
Speaker 6: he's saying, oh, well, we're just talking about the budget

914
00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:18,200
Speaker 6: while this deep Bault crisis is happening. You know, just

915
00:49:18,840 --> 00:49:21,640
Speaker 6: look past that. We're still just negotiating about the budget.

916
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:22,200
Speaker 3: You know.

917
00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:24,839
Speaker 6: I think the fourteenth Amendment stuff is an expression really

918
00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:30,440
Speaker 6: a frustration among Democrats that Biden has really kind of

919
00:49:30,719 --> 00:49:33,440
Speaker 6: embraced the mantle of negotiating.

920
00:49:34,040 --> 00:49:37,880
Speaker 1: Right publicans would like to tank the economy so that

921
00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:40,600
Speaker 1: they can get their guy in in twenty four. I mean,

922
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:45,520
Speaker 1: it's hard to imagine that these people are good phase negotiators. Again, look,

923
00:49:45,560 --> 00:49:48,960
Speaker 1: the fourteenth Amendment, there could really be problems with that, right,

924
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:51,480
Speaker 1: I mean, if it ends up kicked up to the

925
00:49:51,480 --> 00:49:54,520
Speaker 1: Supreme Court. I mean it's hard to imagine a world

926
00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:57,880
Speaker 1: where the Supreme Court does something that's not incompletely insane.

927
00:49:58,239 --> 00:50:00,960
Speaker 6: I think that's yeah, it's untry to tear. I do

928
00:50:01,080 --> 00:50:04,400
Speaker 6: think that McCarthy and certainly like McConnell, at the end

929
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:06,399
Speaker 6: of the day, I think in their heart of parts

930
00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:08,400
Speaker 6: who are like, yeah, we shouldn't have a default, I

931
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:11,560
Speaker 6: do think unlike in past fights like this, I do

932
00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:14,160
Speaker 6: think there is a segment of the Republican Party that

933
00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:17,879
Speaker 6: really doesn't care and I need to forget about the

934
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:20,040
Speaker 6: you know, the political aspect of this, or whether this

935
00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:23,320
Speaker 6: hurts Biden. I think Trump honestly complicated things for himself.

936
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:25,920
Speaker 6: Because of a default does happen, he'll have been seen

937
00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:29,200
Speaker 6: as cheering all default and helping me get happened. So

938
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:31,000
Speaker 6: let's set that aside there.

939
00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:33,560
Speaker 1: I don't think he gets held responsible for the things

940
00:50:33,560 --> 00:50:34,720
Speaker 1: he does by his base.

941
00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:37,520
Speaker 6: I think that's right too. But there are some Republicans

942
00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:41,399
Speaker 6: who genuinely believe that a default would be better than

943
00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:44,879
Speaker 6: not cutting spending dramatically.

944
00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:46,359
Speaker 1: But they are morons.

945
00:50:46,520 --> 00:50:48,120
Speaker 6: I mean, I think that's going to be the dynamic

946
00:50:48,120 --> 00:50:50,719
Speaker 6: that defines this whole thing, because McCarthy will come back,

947
00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:53,879
Speaker 6: say they strike some deal with Biden, and he's going

948
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:57,000
Speaker 6: to come back to his members, who are some of

949
00:50:57,000 --> 00:50:58,880
Speaker 6: them under the illusion that they're just going to like

950
00:50:59,080 --> 00:51:01,440
Speaker 6: both basically on the bill that they passed on a

951
00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:03,799
Speaker 6: party line, right, and he's going to take a deal

952
00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:05,319
Speaker 6: of them, and they're gonna hate it.

953
00:51:05,680 --> 00:51:08,520
Speaker 1: Yeah. I Mean, that's what I don't understand is even

954
00:51:08,560 --> 00:51:11,600
Speaker 1: if you get McCarthy to agree, there's no evidence that

955
00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:15,000
Speaker 1: McCarthy really has power over this caucus. I mean, remember

956
00:51:15,040 --> 00:51:17,680
Speaker 1: how many votes he had to go through to be speaker.

957
00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:20,879
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's right. And as part of that vote, they

958
00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:23,680
Speaker 6: gained the power. Are the members gained the power to

959
00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:25,960
Speaker 6: force him out if a few of them wanted to

960
00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:26,680
Speaker 6: have the vote?

961
00:51:27,360 --> 00:51:30,800
Speaker 1: I have you saw that? There are sort of blue

962
00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:34,640
Speaker 1: dog Dems who've said that if he brings a vote,

963
00:51:34,680 --> 00:51:37,600
Speaker 1: they will make sure to keep him as speaker.

964
00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:40,800
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's right. They're trying to say, no, look you,

965
00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:44,120
Speaker 6: if you do the right thing here, we'll back you up.

966
00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:47,239
Speaker 6: I still think he gets very tricky, and when which

967
00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:49,920
Speaker 6: comes to shove, is that actually going to be what happens?

968
00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:53,160
Speaker 6: I mean, the conventional wisdom has been, you know, whatevers

969
00:51:53,320 --> 00:51:56,120
Speaker 6: this of this debt limit thing, it's probably gonna end

970
00:51:56,160 --> 00:52:01,319
Speaker 6: McCarthy's speakership. I don't know, but I'm certainly again, I'm

971
00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:04,960
Speaker 6: more surprised at how much room his party has has

972
00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:07,920
Speaker 6: seemed to give him in this, just considering, you know,

973
00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:11,160
Speaker 6: how bad the start of his speakership was. I think

974
00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:13,520
Speaker 6: they're giving him some room. Now, what will that translate

975
00:52:13,560 --> 00:52:16,600
Speaker 6: when they're actually talking about a specific deal. I'm not

976
00:52:16,640 --> 00:52:17,080
Speaker 6: so sure.

977
00:52:17,320 --> 00:52:21,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not either. It really has just continually been

978
00:52:21,360 --> 00:52:22,000
Speaker 1: a shit show.

979
00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:25,040
Speaker 6: It has been a shitow. And I think back a

980
00:52:25,080 --> 00:52:27,839
Speaker 6: lot to that week in January where it took them

981
00:52:27,840 --> 00:52:29,960
Speaker 6: so long to have McCarthy and you still let your

982
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:33,080
Speaker 6: people talk about how much that kind of set back

983
00:52:33,320 --> 00:52:35,920
Speaker 6: the business of the Republican majority, which is something that

984
00:52:35,960 --> 00:52:38,600
Speaker 6: at the time they strenuously denied that this was going

985
00:52:38,680 --> 00:52:40,719
Speaker 6: to do anything. But I think any sensible person would say,

986
00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:42,440
Speaker 6: you know, this probably will have some cutters can be

987
00:52:42,520 --> 00:52:44,719
Speaker 6: back there. Yeah, and that's what's happened. But look, I mean,

988
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:47,040
Speaker 6: he passed you know, people might say, oh, well he

989
00:52:47,080 --> 00:52:49,920
Speaker 6: passed the bill. It's just like Republicans like, you know whatever,

990
00:52:50,040 --> 00:52:52,759
Speaker 6: that's not that hard. It actually was incredibly hard. I

991
00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:55,759
Speaker 6: don't think people expected him to do that, and so

992
00:52:56,360 --> 00:52:59,520
Speaker 6: that really, I mean, he's not made it easy for Biden.

993
00:52:59,600 --> 00:53:01,560
Speaker 6: I think be the White House might have thought that this

994
00:53:02,600 --> 00:53:03,960
Speaker 6: was going to be easier for them, and they could

995
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:05,799
Speaker 6: have stuck to their guns and saying, look, you know,

996
00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:08,239
Speaker 6: we're not going to negotiate with you guys over this.

997
00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:10,880
Speaker 6: We're not going to reward hostage taking. You're starting to

998
00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:13,520
Speaker 6: see in the last week some discontent bubble from Democrats.

999
00:53:13,600 --> 00:53:17,000
Speaker 6: We feel that Biden is actually, in fact rewarding hostage

1000
00:53:17,040 --> 00:53:19,359
Speaker 6: taking by by negotiating from Garcia.

1001
00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:23,560
Speaker 1: Sam Brody, we've gone way over time. As always, I

1002
00:53:23,600 --> 00:53:26,040
Speaker 1: appreciate you, Thank you so much for joining us.

1003
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:31,640
Speaker 6: Always. I'd be doing anytime, no moment.

1004
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:36,040
Speaker 1: Jesse Cannon, my John Fast.

1005
00:53:36,120 --> 00:53:40,040
Speaker 3: You know, most people don't know most amendments, and the

1006
00:53:40,080 --> 00:53:43,319
Speaker 3: fourteenth one. You know, I feel like we've only been

1007
00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:45,319
Speaker 3: recently hearing about this. What do you see in here?

1008
00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:50,759
Speaker 1: Look, the fourteenth Amendment was added to the Constitution as

1009
00:53:50,920 --> 00:53:53,279
Speaker 1: part of the end of slavery and the end of

1010
00:53:53,360 --> 00:53:56,640
Speaker 1: the Civil War. But in it there is a line

1011
00:53:57,040 --> 00:54:01,120
Speaker 1: that says that the United States honors its debts, which

1012
00:54:01,239 --> 00:54:04,719
Speaker 1: means that runs completely contrary to the idea of a

1013
00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:07,839
Speaker 1: debt sealing limit, where the United States decides it's not

1014
00:54:07,880 --> 00:54:12,040
Speaker 1: going to pay its debts because Republicans don't want to.

1015
00:54:13,120 --> 00:54:19,520
Speaker 1: So today we had Jeff Merkley, Bernie Sanders, Peter Welsh,

1016
00:54:19,840 --> 00:54:24,000
Speaker 1: John Fetterman, and a couple of others, and they have

1017
00:54:24,200 --> 00:54:27,600
Speaker 1: put together a sort of suggestion that the Biden administration

1018
00:54:27,719 --> 00:54:31,239
Speaker 1: should go along with the fourteenth Amendment. Now, it would

1019
00:54:31,280 --> 00:54:34,800
Speaker 1: be really complicated for them to do the fourteenth Amendment,

1020
00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:37,160
Speaker 1: and ultimately it would probably get kicked up to the

1021
00:54:37,160 --> 00:54:40,440
Speaker 1: Supreme Court. This Supreme Court, as we know, tends to

1022
00:54:40,560 --> 00:54:45,080
Speaker 1: run very, very, very trumpy. I don't love the idea

1023
00:54:45,080 --> 00:54:47,600
Speaker 1: of being dependent on this Supreme Court to keep us

1024
00:54:47,640 --> 00:54:51,840
Speaker 1: out of default. That said, I think that the fourteenth

1025
00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:55,000
Speaker 1: Amendment is a good way to try to force Kevin

1026
00:54:55,040 --> 00:54:57,799
Speaker 1: McCarthy's hand, and so I think it's smart that these

1027
00:54:57,840 --> 00:55:01,719
Speaker 1: Democrats are doing it, and so they are not our

1028
00:55:01,760 --> 00:55:06,680
Speaker 1: moment of fuckery. But Kevin McCarthy, one of the stupidest

1029
00:55:06,760 --> 00:55:10,240
Speaker 1: Speakers of the House ever, does get our moment of fuckery.

1030
00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:14,759
Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in

1031
00:55:14,800 --> 00:55:18,040
Speaker 1: every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday to hear the best minds

1032
00:55:18,040 --> 00:55:21,279
Speaker 1: in politics makes sense of all this chaos. If you

1033
00:55:21,400 --> 00:55:24,080
Speaker 1: enjoyed what you've heard, please send it to a friend

1034
00:55:24,120 --> 00:55:27,680
Speaker 1: and keep the conversation going. And again, thanks for listening.