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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

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Speaker 2: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us Live

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Speaker 3: Just kind of summarizing that farm non farm payroll data.

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Speaker 3: The good news was for the month of February came

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Speaker 3: in better than expected. The two hundred and seventy five

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Speaker 3: thousand jobs at IT consensus was two hundred thousand, So

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Speaker 3: good headline print. There kind of a little bit of

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Speaker 3: the downside here is a big negative revision for the

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Speaker 3: prior month. The prior month was revised down from a

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Speaker 3: gain of three hundred fifty three thousand to two hundred

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Speaker 3: and twenty nine. Claudia Asam from them Group said, don't

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Speaker 3: worry about it, it's just noise. Taking it in, take

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Speaker 3: everything on like a three month basis, rolling basis, and

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Speaker 3: basically the payroll market's pretty strong. Jony Biley joins US

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Speaker 3: chief workforce analysts at employ Bridge, reportedly on Zoom from

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Speaker 3: Pompano Beach, Florida.

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Speaker 4: What are we doing here?

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Speaker 1: Jealous?

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Speaker 5: Right?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, why not? But I'm going out to the mountains Sunday, summer, right, Joni,

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Speaker 3: what did you make of this jobs report number today?

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Speaker 3: A lot of moving parts, as we've been saying, Yeah, you.

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Speaker 6: Know, you really have to break it down because there

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Speaker 6: is a lot of data in this report, and there's

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Speaker 6: some good news and there's some bad news.

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Speaker 7: So to your point you were talking about, you know,

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Speaker 7: the revisions that were made to the prior months. We

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Speaker 7: did see some pretty big revisions.

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Speaker 6: Downward to January and then also some revisions in December.

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Speaker 6: So you know, the previous month's reports weren't really as

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Speaker 6: strong as we thought they were. But however, if you

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Speaker 6: look at the overall job growth, you know, the US

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Speaker 6: is adding jobs to the economy, mostly in the healthcare sector.

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Speaker 6: We did see growth in the retail sector. Construction added

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Speaker 6: over twenty thousand jobs, so you know, there is some

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Speaker 6: good news and we continue to see wages also moving

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Speaker 6: up in the report as well.

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Speaker 8: But jo Johnny, do you care that the wages were

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Speaker 8: moving up less?

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Speaker 7: Yeah, we're definitely seeing a slow down.

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Speaker 6: I think with you know, wage growth has been so

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Speaker 6: strong over the past few years, so I expect them

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Speaker 6: to flatten. I do think you know, wages will kind

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Speaker 6: of soften, but I was surprised actually to see that

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Speaker 6: we're still having some decent, you know, decent wage growth.

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Speaker 3: So the one go ahead.

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Speaker 6: Well, the one thing I was going to say that

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Speaker 6: concern me the most about this Job's report was actually

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Speaker 6: the household survey, and that's where you saw unemployment, you know,

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Speaker 6: tick up to three point nine percent. And when you

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Speaker 6: look at the data and kind of break that down,

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Speaker 6: we see that the population is growing, the size of

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Speaker 6: the labor forces growing, but we actually have over three

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Speaker 6: hundred and thirty thousand more people on unemployment, and.

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Speaker 7: That concerns me.

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Speaker 6: So, you know, we have these two surveys, and so

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Speaker 6: when you look at you know, the establishment survey, the

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Speaker 6: headline number of you know, two hundred and seventy five

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Speaker 6: thousand jobs being created looks great, but that household survey

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Speaker 6: is really concerning that we're seeing more people on unemployment.

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Speaker 3: So, Jony, I think when you listen to earnings conference

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Speaker 3: calls from companies and just about every industry, they say

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Speaker 3: it's still really hard to attract and retain a good

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Speaker 3: talent and labor. Are you still seeing that? Is it

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Speaker 3: as a cute today as it was maybe you know,

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Speaker 3: a year or two ago.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, it's definitely softened a bit.

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Speaker 6: The job market, you know, was much stronger last year

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Speaker 6: and the prior year, you know, even coming out of

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Speaker 6: the pandemic, we just had robust growth.

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Speaker 7: It was a very competitive market.

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Speaker 6: People were quitting their jobs going somewhere else the grass was.

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Speaker 7: Greener, making more money.

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Speaker 6: Now we're starting to see, you know, the quits rate

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Speaker 6: is coming down. It is still though, a very tight

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Speaker 6: job market to your point, you know, we have eight

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Speaker 6: point nine million job openings, about six point four million

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Speaker 6: unemployed workers, so more jobs than there are people. But

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Speaker 6: it depends on the sector you know that you're in.

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Speaker 6: We've seen a slowdown in some of the professional and

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Speaker 6: business service sector. Healthcare though continues to remain strong. Leisure

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Speaker 6: and hospitality, you know, it is very hard to find

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Speaker 6: people in that industry.

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Speaker 7: So we've seen wages.

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Speaker 6: Really start to increase, and employers are focused on that,

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Speaker 6: you know, employee retention strategies to keep their workforce engaged

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Speaker 6: and keep them with them.

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Speaker 8: So to that point, the market is pricing in now

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Speaker 8: one hundred basis points of cuts. This year really starts

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Speaker 8: to kick off in June. Is this an economy that

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Speaker 8: needs that. Like, if we do get those cuts, is

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Speaker 8: there now penned up demand with companies so it actually

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Speaker 8: make the job market tighter.

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Speaker 6: Well, I do think if we get those cuts, you know,

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Speaker 6: even if it's in the second, you know, half of

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Speaker 6: the year, that will help many companies feel better about

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Speaker 6: investing and start hiring again. Because what we see at

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Speaker 6: employee Bridge is employers are talking about hiring. They say

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Speaker 6: they have the demand, but they do seem a bit cautious.

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Speaker 6: They're not adding, you know, to their payrolls as quickly

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Speaker 6: as they have before, and I think they have to

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Speaker 6: be careful with their cash position. And certainly you know,

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Speaker 6: their their debt and the interest rates being high, you know,

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Speaker 6: of course it's impacting companies with making those investments. So

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Speaker 6: if we start to see those rates, you know, begin

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Speaker 6: to ease, I would certainly feel better about companies starting

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Speaker 6: to add to their permanent payrolls again.

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Speaker 3: JNY last night was the State of the Union address

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Speaker 3: and one of the key issues was immigration issues at

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Speaker 3: the border. How does immigration with it's legal or illegal,

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Speaker 3: how has it been impacting Have you seen it anywhere

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Speaker 3: in the labor market? What are your clients saying, because

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Speaker 3: I was speaking to a buddy mine who owns a

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Speaker 3: restaurant just yesterday, and he was saying, for the first

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Speaker 3: time in three years, he actually has everybody he needs

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Speaker 3: for all his shifts. And these are you know, bus

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Speaker 3: boys and waiting staff and dishwashers and things like that.

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Speaker 3: Has it shown up in your work.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, so we're we I think it's still too soon

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Speaker 6: to tell. To be honest with you, it definitely will

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Speaker 6: have an impact. When you look at the numbers of

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Speaker 6: people that are coming into the country. You know, obviously

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Speaker 6: that's adding, you know, to the population, and many of

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Speaker 6: them are unskilled workers, you know, so they will really

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Speaker 6: you know, if obviously getting their green cards are being

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Speaker 6: able to work in the United States, they will impact

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Speaker 6: the lower level, lower level.

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Speaker 7: Jobs, you know, looking for talent more in those unskilled positions.

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Speaker 7: And we see that we haven't really seen.

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Speaker 6: The big impact in the workforce yet, but it certainly

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Speaker 6: would impact the workforce in the future.

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Speaker 8: What do you look for next then, so if there's

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Speaker 8: some good interest in bad it's like a Worsheck test,

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Speaker 8: right when it comes to the jobs data, what's going

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Speaker 8: to be the next data point that you're really paying

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Speaker 8: attention to in the jobs numbers.

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Speaker 6: Well, I think there's a couple of things that'll that

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Speaker 6: we need to continue to watch.

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Speaker 7: One thing is labor participation.

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Speaker 6: You know, if you look at the overall workforce, we're

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Speaker 6: at about sixty two point five percent labor participation, and

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Speaker 6: that if you break that down, you know, men over

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Speaker 6: twenty years old we're up at seventy percent, which is

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Speaker 6: a pretty good number. Women for over twenty years old

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Speaker 6: are We're at fifty nine percent. So when I look

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Speaker 6: at the overall job market, I'm also looking not only

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Speaker 6: where is the job growth and who's adding what's happening

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Speaker 6: with ages, but are we getting people back to work

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Speaker 6: in the United States? And are we seeing that labor

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Speaker 6: participation start to tick up? And that's a very important

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Speaker 6: indicator that I certainly watch. It's still at a very

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Speaker 6: very low rate, and we have some work to do

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Speaker 6: I think in encouraging people that it is a.

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Speaker 7: Good job market.

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Speaker 6: There are opportunities out there, there's training opportunities out there,

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Speaker 6: and certainly need to get that number up. I'll also

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Speaker 6: be watching for revisions next month, you know, are the

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Speaker 6: numbers getting continually revised downward? The temporary help sector is

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Speaker 6: interesting to follow. Usually, if we're losing jobs in the

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Speaker 6: temporary help services sector, that's not a good sign for

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Speaker 6: the economy because companies will lay off temporary workers first,

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Speaker 6: and unfortunately.

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Speaker 7: That has been declining for many months, which could show

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Speaker 7: us that, you.

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Speaker 6: Know, we're not at this yet, Johnny, there are definitely

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Speaker 6: some softening Johnny.

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Speaker 8: We appreciate your time. Thank you so much. Jony Biley,

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Speaker 8: she is employee Bridge, Chief Workforced Analyst, joining us there.

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Speaker 8: We very much appreciate your time.

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Speaker 8: Happy Friday to everyone we made at the end of

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Speaker 8: the week. You're listening to Bloomberg Intelligence. I'm Bloomberg Radio.

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Speaker 8: You can also check us out on YouTube. We are

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Speaker 8: live in the interactive at Broker Studio right here at

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Speaker 8: headquarters in New York. I'm Alex Steel, Paul Sweeney as well.

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Speaker 8: So we have thousands of analysts hundreds. It's good. With

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Speaker 8: hundreds hundred of analysts that cover two thousand companies and

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Speaker 8: one hundred and thirty industries around the world, they are

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Speaker 8: truly the best of the best. And one of the

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Speaker 8: headliners here is Gina Martin Adams. She is the chief

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Speaker 8: equity strategist at Bloomberg Intelligence and she joined us now

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Speaker 8: from the Golden State. Gina, I'm looking at the market,

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Speaker 8: and I've been skeptical of the rally for a long time.

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Speaker 8: But then I get things like the Rustle two thousand

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Speaker 8: up the most and hitting its highest level since March

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Speaker 8: of twenty twenty two. Then I get things like you

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Speaker 8: have the equal Weighted Index sitting at a record high,

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Speaker 8: you have industrials doing really well, and it's not just uber.

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Speaker 8: Is it time for me to stop being skeptical?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I dare say, Alex, we should have convinced you

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Speaker 5: a little while ago to stop being skeptical. But frankly,

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Speaker 5: I do think that what is happening in the market,

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Speaker 5: You're not alone. There are a lot of people that

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Speaker 5: are very skeptical to in the market, and that is

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Speaker 5: what makes what makes the wall of worry that stocks

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Speaker 5: tend to climb right and I do think though that

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Speaker 5: when you look at the bulk of the evidence, you

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Speaker 5: see fundamentals starting to turn a corner. For the vast

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Speaker 5: majority of the S and P five hundred and prices

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Speaker 5: are reflecting that corner that fundamentals are turning over the

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Speaker 5: course of twenty twenty three. Of course, the big argument

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Speaker 5: against stuff is that this market was really just driven

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Speaker 5: by the biggest names, but that argument has been diminished

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Speaker 5: considerably over the last three months. So we're starting to

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Speaker 5: see breakouts across the board. As a matter of fact,

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Speaker 5: more than half of industrials companies are making new all

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Speaker 5: time highs over the last three months, so you are

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Speaker 5: starting to see much broader gains emerge. Small caps starting

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Speaker 5: to show some signs of life as well, breaking across

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Speaker 5: key resistance levels just this week. So we're starting to

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Speaker 5: see more participation, more capitalization, participation, more sectors, more stocks

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Speaker 5: really getting on board this full market.

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Speaker 3: So I guess, just in the back Gina on the

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Speaker 3: jobs number today, it seems like the bond market is

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Speaker 3: pricing in, you know, pretty confidently.

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Speaker 2: A rate cut in.

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Speaker 3: June gave us just kind of what you're fed outlook

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Speaker 3: is for kind of the remainder this year, and how

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Speaker 3: important that is to kind of just the overall fundament

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Speaker 3: of the movement of the markets.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, so luckily, paul I, that's one thing I don't

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Speaker 5: have to set is a FED outlook. But I will

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Speaker 5: say that what the equity market is pricing is generally

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Speaker 5: we're starting to adopt the thesis that earnings are improving.

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Speaker 5: I do think that what's really driving the equity market

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Speaker 5: more than anything is not what's happening in rates. As

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Speaker 5: a matter of fact, we see some very clear evidence

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Speaker 5: that equities are detaching from the rates landscape, and we're

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Speaker 5: not necessarily as closely correlated on a daily basis, monthly

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Speaker 5: basis with watchab what's happening with rates and the bond market,

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Speaker 5: speculation about the FED, and instead we're looking at much

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Speaker 5: stronger than expected earnings and cash flow growth that has

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Speaker 5: emerged for the S and P five hundred, and the

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Speaker 5: anticipation that maybe earnings actually will prove to be much

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Speaker 5: stronger than the market was forecasting over the course of

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Speaker 5: this year. I do think that that's the most important

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Speaker 5: driver of stocks. That said, you can't completely ignore the FED.

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Speaker 5: If the FED is going to even just modestly reduce

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Speaker 5: interest rates because inflation risks has diminished. That could be

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Speaker 5: very supportive of equities as well and certainly contribute to valuations.

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Speaker 5: I think the most dangerous condition for stocks right now

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Speaker 5: is one of two things happen. First and foremost, the

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Speaker 5: biggest sort of not predicted component of the market outlook

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Speaker 5: is this idea that maybe inflation is stickier than anticipated.

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Speaker 5: If inflation reaccelerates, that is obviously very bad for stocks

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Speaker 5: because it could compress profit margins.

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Speaker 7: On the other end of the.

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Speaker 5: Spectrum, if the FED is easing policy because growth is

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Speaker 5: breaking down, that's also not great for stocks. We need

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Speaker 5: this middle zone of sort of stable policy, stable inflation,

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Speaker 5: and modest improvement and earnings growth to really support the

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Speaker 5: equity market right now.

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Speaker 8: That is a Goldilocks word there for Gina. Okay, But

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Speaker 8: here's my question is that if we do get the cuts,

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Speaker 8: let's say they start in June, and neither of those

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Speaker 8: negative scenarios imply like there's no sticky inflation and there's

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Speaker 8: no disastrous economy, the risk of the cuts is that

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Speaker 8: we actually fuel more investment into an economy that doesn't

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Speaker 8: need it, and then that kind of sets us up

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Speaker 8: for a rougher twenty twenty five.

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Speaker 5: I think that's a really good point, is how much

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Speaker 5: can they cut before they ultimately the ultimate result is

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Speaker 5: another bout of inflation into twenty twenty five, And we

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Speaker 5: won't know this until we get to mid twenty twenty

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Speaker 5: four when they do start cutting. If they do, but

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Speaker 5: the Fed does have to threat a pretty fine needle

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Speaker 5: if we're at a point where growth is relatively stable

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Speaker 5: and inflation is simply decelerating, I think the arguments for

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Speaker 5: those cuts are relatively deminimus. So if we do get

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Speaker 5: to that point and the Fed does start cutting, you

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Speaker 5: could indeed see the markets start to think about, well,

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Speaker 5: what does this really mean for inflation prospects in twenty

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Speaker 5: twenty five? Is it justified to see these growth this

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Speaker 5: sort of outlook from the Fed? Will we see much

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Speaker 5: more volatile inflation conditions emerging? What will that mean for

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Speaker 5: profit margins? That of course comes in the middle landscape

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Speaker 5: of we do have the election coming later this year,

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Speaker 5: We've gone I have a lot of other potential moving

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Speaker 5: parts to contend with in the economy, but it's certainly

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Speaker 5: one factor to consider.

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Speaker 3: Geet, I'm glad you brought the election because we'd had

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Speaker 3: this State of the Union last night, So it just

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Speaker 3: feels like that's kicking off what's going to be a

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Speaker 3: very long campaign here in a very long process. Historically speaking,

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Speaker 3: How do markets perform in a presidential election year?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I think Paul I tend to dismiss a lot

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Speaker 5: of those sort of the statistical evidence about election years

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Speaker 5: because you get very different results if you talk about

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Speaker 5: how seasonality and political cycles play out over the last

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Speaker 5: twenty years versus the last fifty years versus the last

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Speaker 5: one hundred years. So you can kind of pick your narrative.

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Speaker 2: Yep.

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Speaker 5: I think that things that are most important, of course

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Speaker 5: to drive stocks really are what's happening with growth and inflation.

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Speaker 5: That said, as we move closer to the election, I

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Speaker 5: do think that there are two major macro issues to

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Speaker 5: consider with respect to the twenty twenty five outlook, and

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Speaker 5: they will matter depending upon who ultimately becomes the US president,

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Speaker 5: and that is really tax and trade. And trade are

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Speaker 5: the two issues that could have very meaningful impacts on

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Speaker 5: the outlook for earnings growth. Both of these presidents do

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Speaker 5: tend to have fight bipolar policies with respect to especially taxation,

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Speaker 5: but also trade policies and a sort of international framework

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Speaker 5: of relationships. So I think we want to pay pretty

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Speaker 5: close attention to those two issues as we get closer

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Speaker 5: to the election because they could have meaningful outcomes for

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Speaker 5: equities going into twenty twenty five.

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Speaker 8: So before we get there, I just want to before

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Speaker 8: we let you go enjoy the weekend, I want to

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Speaker 8: get your take on what's happening with certain areas of tech.

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Speaker 8: So if you have Tesla, if you have Apple, if

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Speaker 8: you have maybe Alphabet starting to really break down, yep,

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Speaker 8: but yet you still have an Aazak one hundred at

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Speaker 8: a record high. How long do you think that that

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Speaker 8: divergence can last?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I think this is super interesting, Alex And something

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Speaker 5: we've been actually exploring over the course of the last

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Speaker 5: two weeks as well is what's happening in the market

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Speaker 5: is quite interesting. Beneath that headline, what we see is

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Speaker 5: actually tech stops relative performance, failing to make new so

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Speaker 5: tech appears to be consolidating, even communications, as you noted,

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Speaker 5: with Alphabet sort of breaking down, communication stocks have been

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Speaker 5: in a bit of a downtrend. At the same time

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Speaker 5: the broader markets are moving higher and that's because we're

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Speaker 5: seeing greater participation outside tech really push those markets higher.

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Speaker 5: Within the Nasdaq, for instance, you've started to see breakouts

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Speaker 5: in healthcare. Healthcare of courses is horrible laggard in twenty

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Speaker 5: twenty three. If you get momentum games in the rest

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Speaker 5: of the market and tech just stalls or even starts

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Speaker 5: to break down a little bit, you can see stocks work.

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Speaker 5: And the last week and a half or so has

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Speaker 5: proves some evidence of that case. We do need to see, though,

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Speaker 5: participation continue to emerge in the rest of the market

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Speaker 5: if tech is indeed going into a stall state.

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Speaker 3: All right, Gina, thanks so much for joining us, as

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Speaker 3: always appreciate it.

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Speaker 4: Geina.

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Speaker 3: Martin Adams, chief equity strategist for Bloomberg Intelligence, joining us

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Speaker 3: from zoom from NJ.

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Speaker 2: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us live

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Speaker 2: weekdays at ten am on Eppo car Play and then

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Speaker 2: broud Otto with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand

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Speaker 2: wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.

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Speaker 8: Let's get broader market. I want to pick up on

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Speaker 8: where John Tucker sort of left off there, which is

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Speaker 8: the Russell. It's at a highest level since twenty twenty two,

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Speaker 8: and again the signs of the broadening part of the

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Speaker 8: rally and all of that significant as certain parts of

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Speaker 8: tech really start to underperform. So joining us now is

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Speaker 8: Grace Lee, senior portfolio manager for Columbia Thread Needle. She

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Speaker 8: is standing by for us. Is this the moment for

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Speaker 8: value and is it going to last?

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Speaker 4: That's a great question, and thanks for having me on today.

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Speaker 4: I think we're getting closer to a tipping point for value.

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Speaker 4: I think you know, last year our value was certainly

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Speaker 4: hit with a double whammy of rates rising, hurting a

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Speaker 4: lot of the defensive sectors, and then you had the

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Speaker 4: AI trade where our value really doesn't play very obviously

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Speaker 4: in the first round. But I think right now what

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Speaker 4: you're seeing is is people are looking for other other

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Speaker 4: opportunities and even other ways to play the AI trade,

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Speaker 4: and we're seeing rate cuts on the horizon, and I

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Speaker 4: think that's that's also going to be you know, a

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Speaker 4: it's going to drive a return to some of these

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Speaker 4: underperforming sectors from last year.

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Speaker 3: Grace, how do you find define value?

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Speaker 4: I like this, Well, we look at value in a

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Speaker 4: number of ways. I think you know, we do look

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Speaker 4: to the Rustle one thousand. Value is as sort of

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Speaker 4: the you know, the broader index, but but it also

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Speaker 4: involves just looking for undervalued opportunities and and so you know,

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Speaker 4: I think one thing that has been overlooked is that

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Speaker 4: a lot of companies are going through transformations. And and

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Speaker 4: you know, as much as people think that that, you know,

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Speaker 4: equities are are valued or something, but there's there's always pockets,

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Speaker 4: and we look for those pockets.

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Speaker 7: You know.

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Speaker 4: I think City Group is actually a really interesting example

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Speaker 4: where the company is going through a significant transformation, simplifying

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Speaker 4: the business, really driving better accountability, and you know that

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Speaker 4: that stock still trades a maybe seventy percent of book value,

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Speaker 4: and we think that that one's very interesting. So we

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Speaker 4: look for those types of opportunities where even in a

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Speaker 4: very strong market, you know, you look under the covers

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Speaker 4: and there's always something there that looks interesting.

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Speaker 8: What gives you confidence at this time will be different?

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Speaker 8: I mean I feel like value, specifically small caps go

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Speaker 8: there had their chance their moment last year, it didn't

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Speaker 8: last for very long.

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Speaker 4: What do you think, Well, I think it does feel

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Speaker 4: like it's always one step forward, two steps back for value.

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Speaker 4: And I think you know, to a certain extent you

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Speaker 4: can you can certainly extend that to small caps. But

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Speaker 4: I think over the long term there is mean reversion,

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Speaker 4: and it's it's always hard to pinpoint exactly what will

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Speaker 4: drive that and when that will happen. But you know,

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Speaker 4: AI is not going to eat the world. It's it's

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Speaker 4: certainly growing very fast, and we have very high optimism

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Speaker 4: on on what it can accomplish. But but there are

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Speaker 4: other sectors and and things have to sort of normalize

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Speaker 4: a bit.

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Speaker 3: So are there sectors per se that that you like

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Speaker 3: here or do you kind of go stock by stock?

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Speaker 3: How do you guys screen for value?

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Speaker 4: So there are some sectors that that are interesting, you know,

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Speaker 4: I think healthcare which was mentioned earlier, there's a lot

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Speaker 4: of interesting value names there. AD buys or I would

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Speaker 4: call out is the stock is the stock dividend is

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Speaker 4: actually higher than any of its A rated bonds right now,

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Speaker 4: which which is an interesting setup, and they've been emphatic

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Speaker 4: in terms of saying that they will support that dividend.

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Speaker 4: So I think that one's interesting. So aside from healthcare,

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Speaker 4: I think there are also very uh company specific opportunities,

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Speaker 4: you know, and we we've looked at the AI trade

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Speaker 4: and AI is not value, but there are certainly uh

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Speaker 4: opportunities for for AI participation amongst value names, and I

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Speaker 4: think that's probably one of the most the most interesting

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Speaker 4: things within our space right now. So I think I

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Speaker 4: think old tech is actually seeing a bit of a

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Speaker 4: renaissance driven by AI. Where people used to think that

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Speaker 4: that servers and storage were kind of low growth, may

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Speaker 4: be dead for a while because everyone's moving to the

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Speaker 4: cloud and they need less hardware. But you know, as

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Speaker 4: we're we're seeing now that is not the case, and

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Speaker 4: there's there's AI servers that's driving a lot of growth,

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Speaker 4: you know both. So I think we saw that specifically

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Speaker 4: with Dell, which were actually involved in and and you

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Speaker 4: know that company. It was not initially a an AI

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Speaker 4: play for us. It was really that PCs are going

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Speaker 4: to see a refresh cycle. Servers and storage will certainly

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Speaker 4: pick up and they might gain a little bit from AI.

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Speaker 4: It looks like the market thinks are going to gain

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00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:32,760
Speaker 4: a lot more from that. Yeah, And then you've got

441
00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:36,360
Speaker 4: old companies like IBM, which I think again has has

442
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,040
Speaker 4: really transformed itself over the last couple of years and

443
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:41,840
Speaker 4: become more of a software and services company, which is

444
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:44,680
Speaker 4: not how you think of the traditional IBM.

445
00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:47,400
Speaker 8: Yeah, and that's exactly what we pointed out. And Paul

446
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:50,159
Speaker 8: in particular, after earnings for Dell, like that stock just

447
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:52,359
Speaker 8: like shooting up. It's like, oh right, right, Dell is

448
00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:56,760
Speaker 8: still around. They do stuff. You also like some utilities, why.

449
00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:00,960
Speaker 4: So what what AI is going to do. It's going

450
00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:03,880
Speaker 4: to drive a lot of power demand. And there are

451
00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:07,679
Speaker 4: some and they're they're probably not they're in the utility category,

452
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:10,960
Speaker 4: but they're the independent power producers and they're the ones

453
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:15,360
Speaker 4: that will benefit directly from higher power prices. There are

454
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:20,760
Speaker 4: some that own nuclear assets where clean energy, clean clean

455
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:23,200
Speaker 4: power is actually going to be very much in demand

456
00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:29,400
Speaker 4: by the large hyper scale cloud providers as they want

457
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:34,439
Speaker 4: to balance their environmental goals with this this massive demand

458
00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 4: for AI power. So so I think there's there's opportunities there,

459
00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:44,600
Speaker 4: and I think companies that own power producing assets, and

460
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:47,400
Speaker 4: especially nuclear assets, are very well positioned.

461
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:49,720
Speaker 8: All right, Grace, thanks lot, We really appreciate it. Thank

462
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,479
Speaker 8: you so much for joining. Grace Lee, Senior portfolio manager

463
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:54,160
Speaker 8: for Columbia thread Needle.

464
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:59,520
Speaker 2: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us Live

465
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:03,120
Speaker 2: we get ten am Eastern on Applecar Play and Android

466
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:05,960
Speaker 2: Auto with a Bloomberg Business Act. You can also listen

467
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:09,160
Speaker 2: live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station,

468
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:12,320
Speaker 2: Just Say Alexa playing Bloomberg eleven thirty.

469
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 8: Let's talk about the real economy front real world. Yeah,

470
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:19,000
Speaker 8: let's talk about the real world here. So Arcadus is

471
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:22,360
Speaker 8: a company based in Amsterdam, but the bulk of their

472
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:26,000
Speaker 8: revenue really now comes from the US and Canada. And

473
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 8: they do things like sustainable design, engineering, consultancy, solutions for assets,

474
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:35,719
Speaker 8: they build stuff, and just to make Paul happy, they

475
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:38,480
Speaker 8: are also working on the Hudson Tunnel project.

476
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:39,040
Speaker 2: Thank you.

477
00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:41,719
Speaker 8: That's going to get about twelve billion dollars in federal funding.

478
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:44,720
Speaker 8: It includes two four and a half mile long tracks

479
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:47,679
Speaker 8: and tunneling. It's a big deal. So I always love

480
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:49,760
Speaker 8: checking on these companies because they're the people who are

481
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:51,879
Speaker 8: putting your shovels in the ground, right, And that's what

482
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:54,480
Speaker 8: we really want to understand. And we're lucky now to

483
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:59,159
Speaker 8: join Virginie Duperrat. She is CFO of Arcadis. She's in

484
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:02,720
Speaker 8: town joining us. It's so wonderful to have you here.

485
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:04,199
Speaker 8: Thank you for joining us.

486
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:06,920
Speaker 9: Thank you Alex, and thank you Paul, and very happy

487
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:08,520
Speaker 9: to be with you tomorrow this morning.

488
00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:11,800
Speaker 8: So in Amsterdam over in Europe, I should say, right,

489
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:13,679
Speaker 8: a fifty two week high for the stock earning is

490
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:16,560
Speaker 8: super good. You got a strong story. I just want

491
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:18,960
Speaker 8: to get your take on kind of what how's it

492
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 8: going like, how what demand is like? Where in the

493
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:25,960
Speaker 8: world are you seeing the most demand and for what stuff?

494
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:29,679
Speaker 9: Thank you, Alex. I think that we are in a

495
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:34,359
Speaker 9: very buoyant moment. Frankly, it is not started yesterday already,

496
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:37,159
Speaker 9: I think you know, just after COVID we started to

497
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:41,200
Speaker 9: see some changes, but definitely there is quite an ask

498
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:45,639
Speaker 9: at the moment for more sustainable things and quite a change.

499
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 9: Also we see a lot of traction in the sustainability

500
00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:53,359
Speaker 9: space boss in Europe and on the US continent, and

501
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:58,080
Speaker 9: that happens in very different areas such as climate adaptation.

502
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:02,360
Speaker 9: Obviously if you think about out some of the storms

503
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:05,399
Speaker 9: that are increasing, but also the rainfalls that now you

504
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:07,720
Speaker 9: can get, you know, the volume of a month within

505
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:08,160
Speaker 9: an hour.

506
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:14,240
Speaker 8: And then in New York we definitely feel that. God

507
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 8: So to that point though, I hear you, and politically

508
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:19,840
Speaker 8: as well, you get the Chips Act here, the Infrastructure

509
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:22,679
Speaker 8: Act and the IRA, and there's so much money to

510
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:25,960
Speaker 8: be deployed so quickly. But I'm seeing a disconnect, particularly

511
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:30,679
Speaker 8: in industrials, about backlog and projects versus actually getting money,

512
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:33,800
Speaker 8: like people actually poining up the cash. Are you guys

513
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:35,080
Speaker 8: noticing that right now too?

514
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:38,679
Speaker 9: If we are honest, we need to admit, you know

515
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:41,680
Speaker 9: that all these similar packages in some respect of creating

516
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:44,120
Speaker 9: some sort of a pose because suddenly, you know, people

517
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:46,280
Speaker 9: are saying, I could get a bunch of money, so

518
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:50,520
Speaker 9: then you know I should wait to make my decisions.

519
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:53,720
Speaker 9: We've been some people hesitating between the stimulus in Europe

520
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:56,920
Speaker 9: versus the stimidius in the US, but what we can

521
00:27:56,960 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 9: see is that traction is now coming. We are already

522
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:02,639
Speaker 9: have a first project. For example, we work on the

523
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:07,680
Speaker 9: Nano Research Center in New York Albany, which is funded

524
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:12,680
Speaker 9: by stimulus package money, and we still have other projects

525
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:15,400
Speaker 9: coming in. We also have the same thing in Europe

526
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:18,880
Speaker 9: with a very large semiconductor factory in Germany one mile

527
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:22,720
Speaker 9: per one mile or a very large thing. And definitely

528
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 9: there is the need for more of these elements. And

529
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,920
Speaker 9: then this is going to happen, but probably H two

530
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:31,720
Speaker 9: will be showing us more of.

531
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:35,440
Speaker 3: That so I would think for your business, those projects

532
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 3: that you work on are just some multi year projects.

533
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:41,200
Speaker 3: What kind of visibility do you have into your business

534
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 3: going forward?

535
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:46,320
Speaker 9: We have quite a long term visibility. Our way of

536
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 9: freakenting backlog whatever is very conservative and then our backlog

537
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 9: at any moment is not more than ten months. Is

538
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:56,720
Speaker 9: but if we consider our entire pipeline, quite a number

539
00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:00,200
Speaker 9: of our project like the asentannel, you are referring to

540
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:02,880
Speaker 9: several years projects, so we have visibility in what's going

541
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:08,720
Speaker 9: to happen. We recently signed a strong project in Europe

542
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:17,360
Speaker 9: with Shell about gas extraction cleaning to get the rebigation

543
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 9: of the soil and convert that, you know, potentially either

544
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:26,200
Speaker 9: back into farmland the one it's theremediated or into a

545
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:31,840
Speaker 9: different sort of compression storage for example for energy. So

546
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 9: this type of project gives you a ten year of

547
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:37,800
Speaker 9: visibility on some of those different things. We have also

548
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:40,840
Speaker 9: large frameworks with some clients you know that also want

549
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:43,360
Speaker 9: us to accompany on the long time and very long

550
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:47,040
Speaker 9: lasting relationship here in the US with more seventy years

551
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 9: with some clients.

552
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:50,200
Speaker 8: Yeah, and I know that at least in my world,

553
00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 8: I do energy transition stuff. A lot of businesses are

554
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:54,720
Speaker 8: just like they're staying in the queue for stuff even

555
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:55,920
Speaker 8: if they don't need it or they don't have the

556
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 8: money right now, because it just takes so long to

557
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:02,600
Speaker 8: get on a line. And if it's like companies like yours,

558
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 8: at the end of the day, I'm interested in terms

559
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:09,240
Speaker 8: of how you're managing costs, like where are you still

560
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 8: seeing inflation, where are you seeing deflation? And where do

561
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:14,120
Speaker 8: you feel like prices are sticky?

562
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 9: So I think we've been over the worst phase of inflation, obviously,

563
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:24,080
Speaker 9: But at the end of the day, when we talk about,

564
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:26,720
Speaker 9: you know, such a large project like the Santanel or

565
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:30,280
Speaker 9: other project we are in, the share of course that

566
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 9: we represent is super small. So I wouldn't be honest

567
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 9: if I'm not admitting, you know that pushing inflation in

568
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 9: our revenue has not been really a key question. That's

569
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 9: been something you know that the way we organize, the

570
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 9: way we work and what we deliver you know, for

571
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 9: our clients has been something quite smooth, and the operating

572
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 9: performance of the last few years have shown that.

573
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:56,320
Speaker 3: So what type of specific consulting services do you provide?

574
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 3: You focus just trying to get a sense of how

575
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 3: what role you guys play in these different projects.

576
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 9: So Arcadis would be able to intervene around any natural

577
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:10,719
Speaker 9: or built asset from the very beginning conception thinking and

578
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:15,480
Speaker 9: such down to remediation and potentially dismantling. So that's where

579
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 9: we operate, and in that space we will never take

580
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 9: any construction. This is not where we operate, but we

581
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:24,760
Speaker 9: are really an advisor, a consultant that will be able

582
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 9: to give environmental permitting for example, or design construction. Architecture

583
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 9: also thinks about the fifth Avenue. We've been recently refurbishing

584
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:40,040
Speaker 9: the Tiffany store.

585
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:44,120
Speaker 10: But you know, towards you guys, yes, okay, okay, all right,

586
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 10: yeah right, So what is the hardest part of your

587
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 10: business right now?

588
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 8: Like what keeps you up at night? As CFO, what.

589
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 9: Keeps me upset night? My kid is more than my job.

590
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 8: I really get that. Yeah, for sure, I'm just curious

591
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 8: as to what the hardest part of your job is.

592
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 9: This is a very fragmented portfolio. So you know, you

593
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 9: need to have a view on everything, and you need

594
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:16,640
Speaker 9: to admit also that you can't have a view on

595
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:18,880
Speaker 9: everything at the same time. So it's the way you

596
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:22,200
Speaker 9: are organized, the way you make people, you know, have

597
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:24,720
Speaker 9: the information that they need to make the relevant decision

598
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 9: at any moment. And part of our new strategic cycle

599
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:32,360
Speaker 9: is really around that there's more project outside that project

600
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:34,160
Speaker 9: that we can see. So then what do we do

601
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:37,440
Speaker 9: internally to make sure that our salesforce has a capability

602
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:40,320
Speaker 9: to make the right decision and not work on a

603
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:41,840
Speaker 9: first and first mode?

604
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 3: You know, I see they have about thirty five thousand employees.

605
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:48,960
Speaker 3: Is it hard to attract and retain employees in your business?

606
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:55,040
Speaker 9: There are some difficult elements, but obviously we've worked a

607
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:57,240
Speaker 9: lot on that. Maybe one you hand a half ago

608
00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 9: we were above fourteen percent attrition rate, which was quite

609
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:04,000
Speaker 9: high just after COVID, So we worked a lot into

610
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:08,040
Speaker 9: that trying to understand what's happening in terms of engagement score.

611
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:10,760
Speaker 9: Now we close the year of fifty two, which puts

612
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:14,280
Speaker 9: US in the highest quartile of our industry, and our

613
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 9: nutrition is down, you know, just above eleven percent.

614
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:21,959
Speaker 3: Are you backed in Amsterdam? Are you back to office hybrid?

615
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 3: What are you doing?

616
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:26,440
Speaker 9: We are hybrid. We've reduced our office print by thirty

617
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 9: five percent, you know.

618
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,320
Speaker 8: As the last yes, So what is your policy?

619
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:32,720
Speaker 3: How does it work for you? Guys. So in Amsterdam,

620
00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:34,440
Speaker 3: for example, Well.

621
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:36,720
Speaker 9: I would not talk about the head quarter, you know,

622
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:38,880
Speaker 9: because this is not where it is buoyant and where

623
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:41,920
Speaker 9: you have a life of the company. But in a

624
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:45,720
Speaker 9: normal office where we operate for project and for client

625
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:50,280
Speaker 9: number one, you potentially have people with the client on

626
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:54,240
Speaker 9: mix site working on the project from time to time

627
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 9: if we can do it. We love, you know, having

628
00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:59,000
Speaker 9: those teams in our offices because that's you know, quite

629
00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 9: attractive and stimulate everyone, and we we encourage them to

630
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:07,360
Speaker 9: come in the office two to three days a week.

631
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:10,480
Speaker 9: But we have, you know, broken our capabilities in terms

632
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:13,760
Speaker 9: of open spaces and search to create more collaborative spaces

633
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:16,360
Speaker 9: where a team would gather and go into a specific

634
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:19,279
Speaker 9: meeting that they have prepared and where they want to

635
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:19,920
Speaker 9: collaborate on.

636
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:22,799
Speaker 8: Okay, right, Virginie, thank you so much. Really appreciate your time.

637
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 8: It was really wonderful to get that perspective. Virginie du

638
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:30,080
Speaker 8: Parachi joins us Arcadus chief financial Officer. You're jealous of

639
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 8: the work, Yeah, yes, you want the remote radio working.

640
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:35,680
Speaker 8: That's part of things it works.

641
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 2: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast Catch us Live

642
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:44,200
Speaker 2: weekdays at ten am Eastern on Apple Car Play and

643
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 2: Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business. You can also listen

644
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:50,680
Speaker 2: live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station,

645
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:53,840
Speaker 2: Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

646
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:58,799
Speaker 8: Let's get the sort of innovation startups, how do you

647
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:01,160
Speaker 8: get it done? How do you start a business? What

648
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:02,719
Speaker 8: does it mean? How do you do it in the

649
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:05,319
Speaker 8: world of AI. Also, and there's a great person to

650
00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:08,320
Speaker 8: talk to you about this, Sunny Bonell. She's co founder

651
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:12,839
Speaker 8: and CEO of Mato, which is a global brand strategy

652
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 8: and design firm focused on brand transformations for innovative tech companies.

653
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 8: So let's get more on all of this and what

654
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:22,040
Speaker 8: it means and how hard it is to start a business.

655
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:23,720
Speaker 8: I certainly don't want to do that, by the way,

656
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:27,200
Speaker 8: Sonny joins us. Now, Sonny, first of all, what is Mato.

657
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:32,879
Speaker 11: Well, we are a brand strategy and design agency and

658
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:36,920
Speaker 11: we work on brand transformations for innovative tech companies. As

659
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:40,760
Speaker 11: you said there, we typically join forces with visionary leadership

660
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:44,799
Speaker 11: teams executive teams at very pivotal inflection points in their

661
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:47,200
Speaker 11: business to help them sort of define what's new and

662
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 11: what's next. And we really are known as this kind

663
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:53,280
Speaker 11: of big idea company, So we work with leadership teams

664
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:55,439
Speaker 11: to kind of find what is that big idea worth

665
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:59,359
Speaker 11: ratling around, how do we make it famous for them,

666
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:01,920
Speaker 11: how do we areticulate it within the company and without

667
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 11: the company in terms of external and how do we

668
00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:08,000
Speaker 11: get people really excited to champion and build that future

669
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:11,319
Speaker 11: with them. So that's kind of us working with all

670
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:16,759
Speaker 11: sorts of brands like Minnesota, Vikings, Google, Hershey's, Virgin and

671
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:18,799
Speaker 11: a lot of challenger startups as well.

672
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:22,319
Speaker 3: So, Sonny, what's I guess some of the types of

673
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:25,520
Speaker 3: work you're doing now with clients and maybe how's that

674
00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:26,640
Speaker 3: changed over the years.

675
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:29,080
Speaker 9: Well, I think a.

676
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 11: Lot of teams in particular, are you know, navigating a

677
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:34,000
Speaker 11: very tricky landscape, and so a lot of our work

678
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:38,480
Speaker 11: is really focused on leadership alignment. Many teams, with the

679
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:42,040
Speaker 11: advance of AI, with the way the world is evolving

680
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 11: and changing so quickly, they need to adapt and be

681
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:48,399
Speaker 11: very agile, and so what we're often doing is we're

682
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:51,040
Speaker 11: coming in and working with visionary leadership teams to sort

683
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:54,399
Speaker 11: of help them align around what is it that they're

684
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:57,279
Speaker 11: fighting for, what is it that they're fighting against, what

685
00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:00,040
Speaker 11: future are they trying to move the organization towards and

686
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:04,000
Speaker 11: how do we get everybody to adopt that and really

687
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 11: buy into that future And and most importantly, you know,

688
00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:11,440
Speaker 11: really not just not just anticipate it, but really be

689
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:16,080
Speaker 11: proactive and trying to move their businesses to that future

690
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:20,080
Speaker 11: so they can remain relevant and achieve resonance in this

691
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:21,920
Speaker 11: wild landscape that we're all in.

692
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:25,560
Speaker 8: Do you feel like companies Paul and I were in

693
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:28,040
Speaker 8: Newark at nj T earlier in the week, do you

694
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:32,560
Speaker 8: feel like companies and the c suite really understand the

695
00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 8: role of AI and their business and like, have the

696
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:38,360
Speaker 8: right vocabulary, have the right strategy, have the right outward

697
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:39,840
Speaker 8: facing stuff.

698
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:47,319
Speaker 11: Yes, and no, I think that we're leadership teams need

699
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:50,920
Speaker 11: to understand that AI is now part of the dominant

700
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:55,040
Speaker 11: conversation and it is important to not only mobilize your

701
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:59,560
Speaker 11: team and understand the technology to become really fluent in

702
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:04,080
Speaker 11: the in the technology, but to adopt that technology company wide.

703
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:06,719
Speaker 11: But I think it even goes higher up right with

704
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:10,440
Speaker 11: visionary leadership, which is what I really speak about and

705
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:13,920
Speaker 11: am an expert in, which is you know, how do

706
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:18,880
Speaker 11: visionary leaders help their teams not only see that future,

707
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:22,520
Speaker 11: but continue using these tools to sort of amplify it,

708
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 11: to make efficiency greater, to just help them transform, to

709
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:29,720
Speaker 11: to stay relevant and meet that new future.

710
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:32,160
Speaker 3: Sonny, it used to be back in the day. If

711
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:33,560
Speaker 3: you want to build a brand, you just bought a

712
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:37,720
Speaker 3: thirty second spot on you know, network television. Those days,

713
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:41,560
Speaker 3: I believe are over. What are some successful ways or

714
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:46,440
Speaker 3: strategies that you've used with some of your clients.

715
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:50,120
Speaker 1: Well, I think a lot of it is positioning, you know,

716
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:53,400
Speaker 1: making sure that you have a very clear.

717
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:55,880
Speaker 11: Point of view, what do you stand for, what do

718
00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:59,120
Speaker 11: you stand against? And more importantly, how do you get everybody,

719
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:03,719
Speaker 11: both your audience and your internal team aligned to that?

720
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:05,880
Speaker 11: And then what is that sort of core story that

721
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 11: you're trying to tell and to remain that to build

722
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:12,239
Speaker 11: that authenticity within the company. So you're trying to sort

723
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:14,880
Speaker 11: of have something to say, not just something to sell,

724
00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:19,480
Speaker 11: and that's extraordinarily difficult when things are very competitive, when

725
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:21,400
Speaker 11: you have a lot of people in many.

726
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:22,719
Speaker 1: Businesses doing the same thing as you.

727
00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:27,319
Speaker 11: What is going to define your competitive advantage? What is

728
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:29,560
Speaker 11: that cutting edge thing that you bring to the table,

729
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:31,960
Speaker 11: and how do you get people really excited about it?

730
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 11: And how do you make it in a way that

731
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:37,759
Speaker 11: it's clear, it's compelling, it's articulate, and people want to

732
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:38,360
Speaker 11: be part.

733
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:39,279
Speaker 1: Of that dialogue.

734
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:41,279
Speaker 11: And so a lot of our work is really helping

735
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:45,120
Speaker 11: teams and organizations just define that what is that big idea?

736
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:47,840
Speaker 11: What is that thing that you want people to rally around,

737
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:51,240
Speaker 11: and then how do we ultimately, uh, you know, build

738
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:54,799
Speaker 11: that into the brand and into the mechanisms, into our ecosystem,

739
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:58,440
Speaker 11: into our language, into our into our brands, you know

740
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:01,080
Speaker 11: system essentially to get people really excited about that.

741
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:04,160
Speaker 8: How did you get into this business? And like, how

742
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:06,840
Speaker 8: did you start your own company? Like what was that journey?

743
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:10,759
Speaker 11: Like, well, I was on track to be a veterinarian

744
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:15,160
Speaker 11: no candidate college. Yeah, so my partner and I dropped

745
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:18,440
Speaker 11: out of college in our early twenties to start Motto

746
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:21,840
Speaker 11: and we had been moonlighting as designers on the side

747
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:24,239
Speaker 11: and just kind of fell in love with it and

748
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:27,080
Speaker 11: started to be hired for it. And so that was

749
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:29,440
Speaker 11: two thousand and five. This is eighteen years later, and

750
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 11: now we've worked with some of the biggest brands on

751
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:34,720
Speaker 11: Earth and it's it's it's a labor of love because

752
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:37,520
Speaker 11: it's taught us like how to evolve with times.

753
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:40,359
Speaker 1: When we started, it was yellow pages and digital at

754
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:42,920
Speaker 1: you know, basically like yeah.

755
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:46,000
Speaker 11: Like printed materials, you know, whereas now everything's digital and

756
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:49,640
Speaker 11: everything's you know, much much more diverse. But back then,

757
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:53,880
Speaker 11: you know, you had to really continue adapting, you know,

758
00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 11: every so couple of years. And then also seeing organizations

759
00:40:57,600 --> 00:40:59,680
Speaker 11: that you're working with also have to be agile on

760
00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:02,359
Speaker 11: a day app and your strategies and the way that

761
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:05,920
Speaker 11: you move teams forward is some of it remains the same.

762
00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:08,719
Speaker 11: You know, values and authenticity will always be at the heart.

763
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:11,160
Speaker 11: I think of every organization. You have to know what

764
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:14,160
Speaker 11: you stand for and what you don't and and ultimately

765
00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:17,040
Speaker 11: again what is your competitive difference? Is what is your

766
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:20,120
Speaker 11: point of view? And everything? And so as brands become

767
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:24,359
Speaker 11: more demanding of not only people, demanding of you know,

768
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:27,440
Speaker 11: how do they what do they feel about political issues?

769
00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:30,760
Speaker 11: What do they feel about the issues of our time,

770
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:34,080
Speaker 11: you find organizations having to be and called upon to

771
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:37,520
Speaker 11: speak about these things, to really sort of plant their flags.

772
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:40,279
Speaker 11: And so that's why we call the company motto is

773
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:41,600
Speaker 11: because what is your flag?

774
00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:45,800
Speaker 1: What is what flags are you planting so that people

775
00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:48,600
Speaker 1: can understand who you are? As a rallying call for

776
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:49,160
Speaker 1: who you are.

777
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:50,880
Speaker 8: We only have like twenty seconds. But do you think

778
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:52,719
Speaker 8: if you had started this business today, you would have

779
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:55,160
Speaker 8: been able to do it? Like has environment has changed

780
00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:55,640
Speaker 8: this much?

781
00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:00,840
Speaker 11: It has changed, but I think that but that would

782
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:03,839
Speaker 11: not have been I think. I think visionary leaders are

783
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:05,920
Speaker 11: driven by two things, innovation and progress.

784
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:08,319
Speaker 1: And I believe that if I had to start this

785
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:09,560
Speaker 1: business today.

786
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:11,200
Speaker 11: I would absolutely be able, we would be able to

787
00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:13,520
Speaker 11: do it because I think that if you are a

788
00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:17,759
Speaker 11: visionary leader, you're able to understand and follow kind of

789
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:19,960
Speaker 11: move towards the trends and move your business towards that

790
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:20,560
Speaker 11: new future.

791
00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:24,279
Speaker 8: So absolutely, all right, Sonny, I mean really, starting my

792
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:26,719
Speaker 8: own business seems like the hardest, scariest thing in the world.

793
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:29,239
Speaker 8: All right, Sonny Banilla co founder and CEO at Mina,

794
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:32,120
Speaker 8: We super appreciate it. Kudos to you. That is quite

795
00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 8: a journey. Thank you for all of that part.

796
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:38,719
Speaker 2: This is the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast, available on Apples, Spotify,

797
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:41,839
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798
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:45,560
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799
00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:49,080
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800
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:52,279
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801
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