WEBVTT - Britain Adrift Interview: Archie Norman on a Missing Industrial Strategy

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<v Speaker 1>I think there's a huge appetite for a new agenda,

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<v Speaker 1>for a sense of where are we trying to compete

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<v Speaker 1>in the world? What is our strategy? No post Brexit

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<v Speaker 1>is no good just saying we left it and we're

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<v Speaker 1>going to have some trade agreements. It's how are we

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<v Speaker 1>now going to compete in the world? Now we've created

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<v Speaker 1>this dislocation in how we used to You can see

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<v Speaker 1>it most acutely in things like the auto industry. We

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<v Speaker 1>created friction for trade. No rightly or wrongly, that's what

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<v Speaker 1>people voted to do. Now we need a plan for

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<v Speaker 1>how we compete, and that's popularly called It used to

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<v Speaker 1>be called industrial strategy. Now this government, for whatever reason,

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<v Speaker 1>has an aversion to the expression industrial strate. It's what

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<v Speaker 1>everybody else calls it, so they can't bring themselves to

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<v Speaker 1>say it. But I don't care whether it's a growth

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<v Speaker 1>strategy or competitiveness. It's got to be a profound point

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<v Speaker 1>of view as to how Britain's going to compete.

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<v Speaker 2>The government is sort of trying to address this idea

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<v Speaker 2>of attractiveness the UK is are the hunt reforms, are

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<v Speaker 2>any of the things you've seen out of government profound

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<v Speaker 2>as you.

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<v Speaker 1>Say, look, I just don't I think one speech doesn't

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<v Speaker 1>make a strategy. An industrial strategy has to be profound.

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<v Speaker 1>And it's not just about our attue where we want

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<v Speaker 1>to compete. What it's about what skills do we want

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<v Speaker 1>to have? Don't get Government plays a very big part

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<v Speaker 1>in creating skills. You know, the education sectors nationalized. We

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<v Speaker 1>have something called the apprenticeship levy, which is a tax

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<v Speaker 1>on skills and a tax on training. Most of that tax,

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<v Speaker 1>a large part of that tax, is taken by the

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<v Speaker 1>treasury and not respent. Other countries are saying, no, we

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<v Speaker 1>need laboratory assystems, No we need more coders, No we

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<v Speaker 1>we need more data scientists. We seem to be agnostic.

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<v Speaker 1>We don't know what we need, and that's not good enough.

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<v Speaker 1>The footprint of government is too big in the economy

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<v Speaker 1>to say we're just hands off, that we let the

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<v Speaker 1>market decide, because government does create and shape the future direction.

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<v Speaker 1>A competitive economy is one where the public and private

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<v Speaker 1>sector work together. That doesn't mean in an old fashioned

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<v Speaker 1>sense of taxpayers money going into owning gumbery anything like that.

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<v Speaker 1>It means we're working together on regulation, on trade, on

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<v Speaker 1>investment in skills on how government supports entrepreneurs, how we

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<v Speaker 1>shape the tax system. At the moment that's come slightly

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<v Speaker 1>adrift post Brexit.

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<v Speaker 2>The IPO market in London is basically dried up. There's

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<v Speaker 2>an issue around pension funds about whether or not they

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<v Speaker 2>are allowed or are willing or able to invest enough

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<v Speaker 2>into UK businesses, and there have been various proposals. Lord lyons,

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<v Speaker 2>for example, the City of London Lord Mayor was speaking

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<v Speaker 2>to me about his fifty billion pound fund that he

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<v Speaker 2>wants to try to put money into UK business I

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<v Speaker 2>suppose what is your thought on actually trying to make

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<v Speaker 2>UK capital markets as attractive as they possibly can be,

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<v Speaker 2>because that's very fundamental to.

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<v Speaker 1>Our sits there absolutely and look, companies listing in London

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<v Speaker 1>is not the be all end of the world, but

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<v Speaker 1>what we did have with London was a place where

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<v Speaker 1>people wanted to list and as a result, headquarters obey

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<v Speaker 1>it and headquarters bring with them a lot of knowledge capital,

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of inward investment in people, and then they

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<v Speaker 1>support the financial markets. You're headquarters in London, you're like

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<v Speaker 1>to raise money in London so that competing has a

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<v Speaker 1>place where companies want to list and bath themselves is

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<v Speaker 1>a natural thing for the UK to do and to

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<v Speaker 1>set out to do, and we slightly lost the plot.

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<v Speaker 1>And now some of it to do with Brexit, I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>just because that creates an aposteric feel for people, but

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<v Speaker 1>some of it also to with the risk a version

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<v Speaker 1>that the amount of regulation we're imposing on UK listed companies,

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<v Speaker 1>the amount of onerous reporting requirements. None of the things

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<v Speaker 1>all well intended. It's just you know, the marketers as

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<v Speaker 1>Saniel report is now two hundred and sixty pages long

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<v Speaker 1>and next to it will be free on the pages long,

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<v Speaker 1>and unfortunately an awful lot of that is not actually

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<v Speaker 1>read by investors. So we just got to think about

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<v Speaker 1>these things. Know that governance. The more and more governance

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<v Speaker 1>we require, the more regulation we apply on people all

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<v Speaker 1>well intended. It may be that other countries are not

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<v Speaker 1>doing that. Then you'll lose listings. We've got to think

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<v Speaker 1>about that. You mentioned that I think the pensions industry

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<v Speaker 1>is all national tragedy. We have this huge sway of

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<v Speaker 1>the funds that over the last twenty years we spent

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<v Speaker 1>d risking by regulation. Pension tystees have no incentive to

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<v Speaker 1>get a great return for their investors.

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<v Speaker 2>Is anyone in government listening or are we already in

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<v Speaker 2>transition of power mode? I mean these issues around pension

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<v Speaker 2>funds and around creating growth, is there really a government

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<v Speaker 2>listening or no.

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<v Speaker 1>Look, I think what's happened here is that Rishi Sona

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<v Speaker 1>has arrived in a semi crisis, both the convulsion of

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<v Speaker 1>in the economy and financial markets of the Liz Trust era.

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<v Speaker 1>So their focus has been let's create some stability and

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<v Speaker 1>let some fix some real here and now problems. His

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<v Speaker 1>five objectives, which I think I can roughly remember anyway,

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<v Speaker 1>I think that was fine at the beginning, but it's

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<v Speaker 1>not fine for the future. And my advice to this

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<v Speaker 1>government is, if you want to be reelected, you've got

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<v Speaker 1>to be the future, not the past. To coin a phrase,

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<v Speaker 1>you can't be the fag end of thirteen years of

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<v Speaker 1>conservative rule. And Rishi Sunak is a very different prime

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<v Speaker 1>minister with a very good grasp of detail, a propensity

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<v Speaker 1>to analyze and understand things in debt, is very receptive

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<v Speaker 1>to these ideas. But there's come a point where you

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<v Speaker 1>have to set out why you're a real break with

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<v Speaker 1>the past and competition for labor, and I think that

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<v Speaker 1>point is near