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Speaker 1: Body Backs with Joseph Scott Morgan. By no stretch of

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Speaker 1: the imagination, I'm a historian. Actually, I think I'm kind

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Speaker 1: of a frustrated historian. I'm somebody that kind of romanticized

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Speaker 1: the idea about becoming one at some point in time,

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Speaker 1: perhaps saw myself in a book filled office at a

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Speaker 1: university somewhere. But then I realized those jobs are really

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Speaker 1: hard to come by. The rigor that you have to

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Speaker 1: go through in order to achieve doctoral status in the field,

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Speaker 1: and the competition, Oh my gosh, it's difficult, to say

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Speaker 1: the very least. And then I knew that I didn't

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Speaker 1: know that I would even be able to keep the

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Speaker 1: lights on in whatever home I was living in. But

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Speaker 1: that doesn't mean that I'm not fascinated. And I have

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Speaker 1: followed history my entire life. It's just something I do

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Speaker 1: most people. And here's another little slice of life from

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Speaker 1: me from behind the curts. People will say, hey, just Scott,

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Speaker 1: what's your crime shows do you watch? And I smile

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Speaker 1: a knowing smile and look at them and say, I

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Speaker 1: don't you know what. I spend most of my time.

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Speaker 1: Spend most of my time watching history videos on YouTube.

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Speaker 1: A matter of fact, you could probably turn the television

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Speaker 1: off in my house. I don't really watch it. But

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Speaker 1: there are those pivotal moments in any country's history that

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Speaker 1: kind of dictate the course of the way things are

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Speaker 1: going to go. And I've got to say, we're going

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Speaker 1: to talk about one such event today that altered the

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Speaker 1: direction of the history of our nation in a way

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Speaker 1: that I don't know that even now we can take

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Speaker 1: the full measure of We will be able to someday,

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Speaker 1: but this event, this event impacted us almost like a

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Speaker 1: bullet being fired from a pistol. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan

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Speaker 1: and this is body Backs Deve Mac. I want to

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Speaker 1: say something to you right now. I've been around events,

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Speaker 1: I think in the course of my life where you

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Speaker 1: had one person that was kind of the focus of

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Speaker 1: something going on in a large group and they didn't

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Speaker 1: exactly behave or react in a way that they should

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Speaker 1: have maybe respond, and they were accused afterwards of not

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Speaker 1: being able to read quote unquote read the room. And

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Speaker 1: in my opinion, if we had a King of the Hill,

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Speaker 1: I think that it would probably be in our nation's history,

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Speaker 1: probably be John Wilkes booth. He failed to read the

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Speaker 1: proverbial room, and it wound up culminating in a catastrophe

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Speaker 1: for a country that was coming out of war, and

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Speaker 1: for a region of the country, the South in particular,

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Speaker 1: that knew that they were dependent upon some level of

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Speaker 1: mercy and to have any hope of recovering after the

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Speaker 1: Civil War, and those that was dashed. It was completely

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Speaker 1: dashed by his actions that he took in Ford's Theater

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Speaker 1: that April night so many years ago, when he killed

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Speaker 1: President Lincoln.

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Speaker 2: The amazing part, Joe, is that you nailed it right

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Speaker 2: off the bat. He did not read the room right.

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Speaker 2: He thought he'd be a hero. He absolutely thought by

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Speaker 2: killing President Abraham Lincoln that all he had to do

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Speaker 2: was get across the Potomac River, get back towards the South,

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Speaker 2: and he would be They would build statues about this guy.

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Speaker 3: He really believed that he was.

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Speaker 2: But he was twenty six years old and had been

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Speaker 2: kind of jacked up in his thinking for a long time.

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Speaker 2: He was a famous entertainer in terms of a stage

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Speaker 2: actor at the time. He and his brother were both

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Speaker 2: famous actors of their t think his.

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Speaker 1: Dad even surpassed them. His dad was known as this

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Speaker 1: incredible Shakespearean actor. Wow, they held a position of celebrity,

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Speaker 1: Dave that you know, you can't necessarily compare that age

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Speaker 1: with the current age. N But I don't know. I

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Speaker 1: mean you're talking about serious actors here, and they were known, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean known everywhere. I think they were even known

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Speaker 1: in Europe at that point.

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Speaker 2: And interestingly, his brother Edwin Booth. Actually, if i'm and

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Speaker 2: this could be one of those apocryphal stories, but I

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Speaker 2: believed it to be true, is that Edwin Booth saved

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Speaker 2: Tad Lincoln when he was getting one of the Lincoln children.

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Speaker 1: Robert, Yeah, Robert, it's not it's not apocryphal. Saved him, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: saved him at a train station he was gonna you know,

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Speaker 1: I don't know if he fell down into the well,

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Speaker 1: you know that where the train track is or whatever.

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Speaker 1: He saved him. What are the odds, you know? And

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Speaker 1: there's all these little oddities. You know that people have

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Speaker 1: done the comparison between Kennedy and Lincoln well all all

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Speaker 1: of these years, you know, and talked about it, and

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Speaker 1: some of them are very sketchy at best. You know,

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Speaker 1: you're having to do the link the linkage here, and

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Speaker 1: let's see what was what was the thing. Uh, hang

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Speaker 1: on the one that uh, let's see. Uh, it was

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Speaker 1: Kennedy's assassin. Allegedly, Lee Harvey Os had shot the president

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Speaker 1: from a warehouse and fled to a theater, and Booth

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Speaker 1: wound up shooting President Lincoln in a theater and winds

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Speaker 1: up fleeing to They want to call it a warehouse,

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Speaker 1: it's not where.

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Speaker 3: It's a bar bar.

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Speaker 1: It's like a tobacco barn. You know. You can kind

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Speaker 1: of dig into those.

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Speaker 3: Sorts of numerology. You can make it do anything.

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Speaker 1: You can make it do anything.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's fascinating to do and it's entertaining.

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Speaker 2: But that's why I said, I don't even know if

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Speaker 2: it's apocryphal or true. You know, but there are so

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Speaker 2: many things surrounding the assassination of President Lincoln, what trans

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Speaker 2: and what took place afterwards, and John Wilkes Booth and

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Speaker 2: him misreading what was happening. So today we're going to

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Speaker 2: get into And I did not even know this at

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Speaker 2: all until you mentioned it to me. I didn't know

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Speaker 2: they did an autopsy of John Wilkes Booth. I don't

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Speaker 2: know what I was thinking. It just never occurred to me. Certainly,

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Speaker 2: you're going to do an autopsy on the president, as

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Speaker 2: we covered that last year.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I got to tell you, Dave, I don't

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Speaker 1: know if you're aware of this. Do you know that

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Speaker 1: that wound up being one of our most popular episodes

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Speaker 1: last year when we covered the well the assassination, but

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Speaker 1: actually the autopsy of President Lincoln. And I thought that

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Speaker 1: it was I thought that it was fitting. Yeah, you

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Speaker 1: know that we that we go back and talk about Booth.

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Speaker 1: You know who brought all this about, especially his story

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Speaker 1: is fascinating.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's what I was gonna say. Now that I've

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Speaker 2: looked at it, I'm like, wow, I had no idea.

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Speaker 2: So to give you the quick thumbnail. He did think

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Speaker 2: he would be a hero, and he wasn't. To the

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Speaker 2: south you read it right, you know, because people were

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Speaker 2: looking ahead of what can we expect what's going to

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Speaker 2: take place now? And he really did just train wreck

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Speaker 2: all of that. But I have a question for you.

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Speaker 2: Starting right out at the beginning, most of us know

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Speaker 2: that John Wilkes Booth snuck into Lincoln's booth at Ford's Theater,

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Speaker 2: shot in from behind, and then leapt to the stage

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Speaker 2: about twelve feet down. Correct, Yes, that's correct. Did John

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Speaker 2: Wilks break his leg when he jumped?

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Speaker 1: Okay? Yeah, And here's here's kind of the dynamic of it.

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Speaker 1: And it's fascinating. When he leapt over the balcony where

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Speaker 1: you know Major Rathbone and his fiancee and the President

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Speaker 1: and of course Mary Lincoln were seated, he kind of

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Speaker 1: pushed by of course before he leapt, after he had

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Speaker 1: and people lose sight of this when he when he

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Speaker 1: shot President Lincoln he was using it was a fifty

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Speaker 1: plus caliber I think it's like a fifty four caliber derringer.

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Speaker 1: That means it's a muzzle loading, muzzle loading pistol. You

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Speaker 1: got one shot and he buried that in Lincoln's skull.

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Speaker 1: The other thing that they don't think about before Booth

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Speaker 1: exits this balcony is that he pulled out a really

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Speaker 1: big knife and he slashed Major Wrathmone, I mean, cut

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Speaker 1: him up pretty good, you know, because Rathbone was trying

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Speaker 1: to fort Booth and you can imagine, I mean, who's

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Speaker 1: going to be sitting there and suddenly hear this report

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Speaker 1: of this, of this weapon going off, and these things

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Speaker 1: are loud of Actually.

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Speaker 2: I was going to ask you because the muzzle loading

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Speaker 2: it's different than the guns we think of as a pistol,

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Speaker 2: and the sound and the smoke, it's a lot difficult.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's a black powder weapon, so you'll get

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Speaker 1: this very generous cloud of smoke that comes along with it.

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Speaker 1: And just to kind of just to kind of bring

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Speaker 1: this into focus, these the weapons that the military was

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Speaker 1: using the soldiers on both sides, These are black powdered weapons,

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Speaker 1: and you know how you see them lined up, you know,

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Speaker 1: in a line of battle facing one another, almost like Napoleon.

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Speaker 1: They were using antiquated tactic with essentially modern weapons. They

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Speaker 1: had rifled weapons at that point in time, but anyway,

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Speaker 1: because of the powder, there are reports that were saying

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Speaker 1: after the first one or two volleys that were fired,

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Speaker 1: the battle feels almost like completely obscured by smoke. So

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Speaker 1: you've got this tiny space, which I've actually been to

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Speaker 1: there in Ford's Theater and it's it's not huge. Now,

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Speaker 1: I'm not saying that you're the entirety of your field

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Speaker 1: of view is going to be included by the smoke,

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Speaker 1: but it's it's going to be. You've got the report

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Speaker 1: and it's a concussive sound that reaches out you've got

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Speaker 1: Mary Lincoln screamed, that's the first thing you hear, almost

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Speaker 1: immediately after the weapon goes off. And then Rathbone, who

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Speaker 1: is obviously a war veteran, he you know, he knows

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Speaker 1: what gunfire sounds. Everybody back then, you didn't have to

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Speaker 1: be a veteran. Everybody knew what gunfire sounded like. He responds,

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Speaker 1: and he's probably stunned for a second, and it's just

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Speaker 1: enough time for Booth to free up that weapon, that knife,

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Speaker 1: and he slashed wrath them. But as he did that,

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Speaker 1: he was trying to make his escape. President Lincoln security

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Speaker 1: was either in a bar drunk or he was asleep,

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Speaker 1: one of the two. And he turned out to be

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Speaker 1: a total train wreck later on in life. He was

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Speaker 1: caught drinking on the job and all sorts of things.

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Speaker 1: Why in the world they would trust the life of

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Speaker 1: the president in And you can't make the excuse and say, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: it was different times. No people, there were assassins. There

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Speaker 1: have been assassins for generations. You're just coming you're still

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Speaker 1: in a war footing, and you're gonna let the president

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Speaker 1: be in that. But anyway, when when Booth jumped over

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Speaker 1: that balcony. They have the they have the the bunting,

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Speaker 1: which is you know that that kind of curved uh

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Speaker 1: curved decorative uh uh attachment that's on the front of

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Speaker 1: the booth and it's you know, they've portrayed it as

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Speaker 1: being kind of in white and blue. Well, this goes

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Speaker 1: to premeditation, something we talked about, you know, in investigations

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Speaker 1: all the time. Booth had had his horse waiting in

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Speaker 1: the alley. A matter of fact, he had stable boy

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Speaker 1: out there that was hanging on to this horse. It

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Speaker 1: was saddled. He was ready to rock and roll, and.

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Speaker 3: He knew he's gonna have to get out in a hurry.

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Speaker 1: He did. He had his he had his spurs on right,

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Speaker 1: and so what happened was was that when he jumped

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Speaker 1: leapt his his spur got caught on that bunting and

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Speaker 1: it it fractured. It fractured his leg and uh it

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Speaker 1: was a very nasty fracture. And you know some have

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Speaker 1: said that, you know, you could you could bear witness

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Speaker 1: to the idea that he's kind of limping, limping off

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Speaker 1: off of off of the stage. It was actually his

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Speaker 1: left leg and foot and so it's a it's a fracture.

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Speaker 1: It was a fracture. You have too long, these parallel

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Speaker 1: long bones in your low leg. You've got the tib

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Speaker 1: fib Well, it was his fibula that was actually fractured.

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Speaker 1: Can imagine how painful this was fractured right above the

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Speaker 1: foot and it snapped it. So he's I know, it

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Speaker 1: makes it makes my teeth hurt. Uh. So he's dragging

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Speaker 1: his foot, you know, dragging his leg behind him, and

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Speaker 1: some people say, you know, they they're not really sure

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Speaker 1: what he said. One one is uh kind of the

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Speaker 1: Virginia motto that's in Latin deathbit I think death be

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Speaker 1: it always to tyrants or something like that I'm paraphrasing.

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Speaker 1: Or the South is avenged no one. And there was

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Speaker 1: total total chaos in the event. And of course people

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Speaker 1: aren't watching booth at this point where they're watching, they're

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Speaker 1: actually looking up at the balcony where the president had

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Speaker 1: had been. And here here's the thing, Mary Lincoln. As

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Speaker 1: you can imagine, it's his wife. She's screaming. And people

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Speaker 1: knew he was up there in the audience because did

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Speaker 1: you know the play, Yeah, he got there late, and

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Speaker 1: they stopped the play. Dave the band or the orchestra

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Speaker 1: that's in literally had an orchestra pit in front of

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Speaker 1: the stage. They started playing Hell to the Chief, Oh wow,

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Speaker 1: And the actors that were on stage turned immediately and

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Speaker 1: faced the balcony as they're entering, and even the actors

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Speaker 1: on stage are ap plauding, So there's an awareness that

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Speaker 1: the president and his wife and their auntourage has arrived.

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Speaker 3: I've never heard that. Here's the thing, Dave.

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Speaker 1: You know how we mentioned that John Wilkes Booth was

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Speaker 1: illuminary in theater back then. Even though he makes this

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Speaker 1: grand statement on stage and eyes are then turned to

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Speaker 1: the president and his wife screaming out the crowd, and

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Speaker 1: those in the crowd, the theater crowd had seen Booth

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Speaker 1: perform before they knew him. They could recognize him by face.

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Speaker 1: He was a very for those days, a very handsome dude,

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Speaker 1: and they knew right at that moment, Tom that one

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Speaker 1: of the most famous actors in the world had just

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Speaker 1: murdered our president. Dave, I got to ask you, brother,

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Speaker 1: you know, I can't imagine us being in this position.

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Speaker 1: What if you know that all hell is about to

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Speaker 1: rain down on you? Can you imagine you know? You know,

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you know it's all it's all real, uh.

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Speaker 1: I guess in his mind, very romanticized. He's an actor.

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Speaker 1: You know that he's going to draw these people into him,

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Speaker 1: They're going to follow him and you know, essentially canonize

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Speaker 1: him in South when the reality, the sting of that

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Speaker 1: broken leg is hitting home and he's having to drag

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Speaker 1: that thing behind him out of that theater and try

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Speaker 1: to get it just to just to get up on

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Speaker 1: that horse, put your foot in the stirrup and throw

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Speaker 1: your leg over it. You imagine where his mind is

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Speaker 1: at this point. I wonder if he had that that

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Speaker 1: sudden recollection or that sudden epithantal moment where he said,

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Speaker 1: you know what, maybe this wasn't the best idea.

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Speaker 2: I'm I'm wondering because of what all was happening. He's

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Speaker 2: in in the booth. I just I picture him screaming, hey,

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Speaker 2: y'all watch this. That's what I picture him doing before.

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Speaker 2: But he jumped and breaks his leg and as you mentioned,

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Speaker 2: a gruesome injury. Now he stands up, he holds the

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Speaker 2: dagger above his head from the stage and blood is

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Speaker 2: dripping from it because he he stuck it in. You know,

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Speaker 2: wrathbon and so there's can you imagine the horror of that.

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Speaker 2: They already you got the shot, you got the smoke,

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Speaker 2: the president's down, there's chaos raining, and you got this

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Speaker 2: actor world famous that he's standing on the stage in

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Speaker 2: Triumph holding the dagger over his head.

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Speaker 3: They see blood dripping, and then he takes off.

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Speaker 1: Now, well, let me pause you right there and go

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Speaker 1: back to one theater reference here that I think is fascinating.

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Speaker 1: It's one of the reasons I mentioned his father and

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Speaker 1: his brother as well. I think his brother was like,

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Speaker 1: really really, you know, very well known that that image

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Speaker 1: of him standing on the stage holding the dagger in

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Speaker 1: his hand, that literally goes back to another case that

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Speaker 1: you and I have covered, because these guys are Shakespearean actors.

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Speaker 1: They both, I think the brother had gained great renown

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Speaker 1: in playing Brutus or maybe it was willl because I

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Speaker 1: can't remember which one, but they had played. They were

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Speaker 1: both in Shakespeare's played Julius Caesar, and so that theatrical

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Speaker 1: move of holding the knife in their hand, and you

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Speaker 1: painted this picture, and I hadn't thought about that of

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Speaker 1: blood perhaps, you know, kind of seeping down that blade

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Speaker 1: and dripping onto the stage. And maybe no one could

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Speaker 1: appreciate it. But what's important here is that Booth appreciated

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Speaker 1: it from the sense that this is the ultimate in theater.

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Speaker 1: And I think, little did he know this is the

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Speaker 1: last time he's going to appear on stage. Pure right.

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Speaker 2: It's so weird that he thought in his mind of

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Speaker 2: mind that you know, they thought they were over the

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Speaker 2: in the government. He also didn't know that the conspiracy

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Speaker 2: to overthrow the government was him, that everybody else had

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Speaker 2: failed at their duty that night pretty much, and the

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Speaker 2: conspiracy that, you know, they were not just after killing

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Speaker 2: the president. It was a plan to take out the

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Speaker 2: working aspects of the United States government. And as he

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Speaker 2: gets out there to his horse, and you mentioned that

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Speaker 2: he had a guy holding the horse, how how does

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Speaker 2: he get on that? I mean, it's not easy to

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Speaker 2: get on a horse with both legs working properly, regardless

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Speaker 2: of adrenaline. He's now outside and you mentioned the pain.

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Speaker 2: It's got to be horrible, and I'm just wondering he

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Speaker 2: has to get help. But every time he's riding that horse,

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Speaker 2: now the.

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Speaker 1: Pain's humping down. Yeah, he's got his spurs on, so

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Speaker 1: you know, he's ready to roll and he's for those

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Speaker 1: for those of y'all that have never ridden a horse.

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Speaker 1: You know, if you're saddled up, your your feet, are

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Speaker 1: they fit into the stirrups that hang down? You know

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Speaker 1: a lot of people understand this, but let's just try

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Speaker 1: to get an idea of the biomechanics that are going

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Speaker 1: on here can make it excellent excellent that Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: like it's like it is like a shock absorber. But

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Speaker 1: let's just let's just pretend that that shock absorber, the

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Speaker 1: leg is now kind of that piston that's inside of

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Speaker 1: the shock ups orb, and that thing is fractured. It's

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Speaker 1: not going anywhere. Well if it does. Every time you know,

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Speaker 1: you hit that horse takes a step there, and trust me,

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Speaker 1: he's not trotting. He's got this thing. You know, he's

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Speaker 1: going you know, uh, you know, he's put the spurs

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Speaker 1: to it as they as they say, hell bent for leather,

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Speaker 1: you know, and he's riding and every time that horse

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Speaker 1: bounces along the way, that pain is shooting up the leg. Now, yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's he's going to have a huge burst of adrenaline.

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Speaker 1: But those broken and fractured bones within his leg are

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Speaker 1: first off, there's a high probability. They didn't have an

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Speaker 1: X ray to do this with back then. This is

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Speaker 1: merely my you know, projection. Here, there's a high probability

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Speaker 1: that this bone has ripped through the adjacent muscle structure

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Speaker 1: in his lateral aspects of his leg. I don't know

337
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Speaker 1: about the calf, but it probably fragmented as well, And

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Speaker 1: so you've got little fragments of bone in there that

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Speaker 1: are bouncing around. And every time that horse, you know,

340
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Speaker 1: jostle's about, he's gonna feel it and it's gonna be excruciating,

341
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Speaker 1: and you talk about a cold cup of coffee. All

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Speaker 1: of a sudden, he has an awareness now that he

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Speaker 1: ain't you know, he's he's no longer you know with

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Speaker 1: his play pritties up on the stage. This is reality.

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Speaker 1: You know, he's he's into it. Now, he's into it,

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Speaker 1: and I'm sure he's probably having second thoughts and his

347
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Speaker 1: conspirator is waiting with him. And you know, there was

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Speaker 1: a whole gang of these people that you know, that

349
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Speaker 1: he was involved with, that he had come together and

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Speaker 1: you know, most of these people are they're real adults

351
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Speaker 1: to begin with, you know, they're not They're not the

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Speaker 1: brightest among us, and just on like a little aside.

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Speaker 1: You know. One of these I think had gone to

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Speaker 1: Secretary Seward's house at the same time. Booth was in

355
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Speaker 1: Ford's theater. Slashed him about and he had had a

356
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Speaker 1: neck injury and he had a neck brace around his

357
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Speaker 1: next the only thing that kept him from having throat cutting.

358
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Speaker 1: When the guy run out into the street, he starts

359
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Speaker 1: crying murder, murder, murder. He's like out of his mind

360
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Speaker 1: at this point time. You've got a couple of guys

361
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Speaker 1: that are one at least that turned into a real

362
00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:15,679
Speaker 1: coward and couldn't couldn't go forward because they had planned

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Speaker 1: to kill everybody there. There was actually a plan that

364
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Speaker 1: General Grant right, he was supposed to be there with Lincoln,

365
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Speaker 1: and because Grant's wife allegedly couldn't stand Mary Lincoln, they

366
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Speaker 1: were like, I think we'll go. He made his excuses

367
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Speaker 1: and and and left. But you know, here you have

368
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Speaker 1: here you have Booth riding off into the night, Dave

369
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Speaker 1: and to parts unknown, maybe maybe to us, but I

370
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Speaker 1: think he had an idea where he was headed.

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Speaker 3: He was trying. You know, they did have a plan,

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Speaker 3: and it was to get to the naval bridge.

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Speaker 2: They got to get to the Navy shipyard and that's

374
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Speaker 2: where David Harold is waiting. But as he gets there,

375
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Speaker 2: this is this the little things you didn't plan on,

376
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Speaker 2: you know. It wasn't like it is today where communication happens,

377
00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:04,920
Speaker 2: you know, right away. And so as John Willikes Booth

378
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:08,199
Speaker 2: is making his escape, he gets to a bridge that

379
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Speaker 2: has been closed for the night, done, not going anywhere,

380
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:15,640
Speaker 2: and it's the Navy yard bridge and John Willkes Booth,

381
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Speaker 2: now we're going back to the famous actor thing. The

382
00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:23,119
Speaker 2: guys guarding the bridge haven't heard about the assassination that

383
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Speaker 2: just took place, and John Willkes Booth needs to cross

384
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Speaker 2: the bridge, and they stop him, and he talks his

385
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Speaker 2: way into it because famous actor, Hey just got to

386
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Speaker 2: get through here, guys, And they're like, oh okay. So

387
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Speaker 2: he is able to cross the bridge and that's where

388
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Speaker 2: he meets up with David Harold. And now those two

389
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:42,439
Speaker 2: are going to be married at the hip for the

390
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Speaker 2: next few days until death to us part almost and

391
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Speaker 2: that's where their journey begins. Now, Booth thought, all we

392
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Speaker 2: have to do get across the Potomac River. And once

393
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Speaker 2: we're there, we're we're in God's country. We're at Dixie.

394
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Speaker 2: We're home free. There'll be parades waiting for us.

395
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Speaker 3: You know. Didn't happen that.

396
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:09,399
Speaker 1: Way, No, no, it didn't. And you know the thing

397
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Speaker 1: about it is, I think a lot of people when

398
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Speaker 1: many people think, you know, they'll think of my home

399
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:19,160
Speaker 1: state of Louisiana when you think swamp. Let me tell

400
00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:23,440
Speaker 1: you something. Oh, Virginia, Virginia, and down in North Carolina,

401
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:26,200
Speaker 1: and and of course South Carolina too, that whole area

402
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:28,840
Speaker 1: right there. You're in that tidle basin, and let me

403
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:31,240
Speaker 1: tell you something. There's a lot of rough terrain in there.

404
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:34,240
Speaker 1: A matter of fact, I think the one area there

405
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Speaker 1: in Virginia, I think they call it, and here's the name,

406
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Speaker 1: the dismal Swamp. Can you imagine. I think that's a

407
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:42,320
Speaker 1: place I would want to avoid. But you know, that's

408
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 1: the terrain that Booth and Harold found themselves trying to negotiate.

409
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Speaker 1: And not only are they trying to negotiate it, they're

410
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:54,760
Speaker 1: trying to negotiate it with a busted leg, essentially at night,

411
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Speaker 1: with a leg that is just ripping in pain. It's torn,

412
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Speaker 1: it's torn through through the musculator in his leg, and

413
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:07,800
Speaker 1: it's horrible, and you can imagine how excruciating this was

414
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:11,119
Speaker 1: just to try to just any movement. There's a reason

415
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 1: why even if your leg is not set, if you

416
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:19,439
Speaker 1: are if you have a fractured limb, they tell you

417
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:23,520
Speaker 1: need to rest, stay off of it, or in case

418
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:27,800
Speaker 1: of an arm, don't use it. And you talk about

419
00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:31,560
Speaker 1: the antithesis of that boy is he using it or

420
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:34,360
Speaker 1: what you know? Because and this is uneven terrain. When

421
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:35,920
Speaker 1: you get off into the swamps, you're not going to

422
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:38,159
Speaker 1: be on the back of a horse. You have to

423
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:41,199
Speaker 1: negotiate this area and find somebody that can help you

424
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 1: through it. And I think, if I'm not mistaken, it

425
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:48,840
Speaker 1: was actually a former slave that, not knowing what was

426
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 1: going on, he had to act as a guide to

427
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 1: get them through the swamp.

428
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:55,920
Speaker 2: It's funny because I was going to ask you about

429
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:59,920
Speaker 2: the leg break, Joe, I'm funny, strange. Is it pass

430
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,959
Speaker 2: for a leg breaking a broken leg to be fatal?

431
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:08,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, oh yeah. And there's a couple of

432
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 1: ways it could be. First off, if that leg fractures

433
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 1: and you clip a major vessel in there, or a

434
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:19,360
Speaker 1: couple of vessels, you can bleed out. That is possible

435
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:23,200
Speaker 1: with these fractures What happens is you can have this

436
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:28,560
Speaker 1: infection that sets in and it necrotizes. Essentially, it means

437
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 1: it dies. You know. It's where we get termed. You know,

438
00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:34,560
Speaker 1: necros we're talking about death and the tissues begin to

439
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:37,879
Speaker 1: die and rot in that area. So the longer you

440
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:42,400
Speaker 1: go and this thing remains untreated, dependent upon how much

441
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:44,920
Speaker 1: damage is done, you can and it would take quite

442
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 1: a bit of time, but you're going to see like

443
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:52,000
Speaker 1: an onset of fever. You're going to see a kind

444
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:55,359
Speaker 1: of a delirious state, and then the leg will literally

445
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:59,440
Speaker 1: start to turn black and it would eventually have to

446
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:02,439
Speaker 1: be ampy. That is, if you cannot get to a

447
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:06,640
Speaker 1: doctor and have this thing set and wrapped. And David,

448
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:10,040
Speaker 1: I got to tell you, interestingly enough, another interesting intersection

449
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 1: with history. The physician involved in the saying is actually

450
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:18,119
Speaker 1: an ancestor of somebody that you and I grew up

451
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:19,520
Speaker 1: listening to when were kids.

452
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 3: How weird, it's so weird, it really is.

453
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 2: Oftentimes he gets listed in the group of conspirators and

454
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:31,520
Speaker 2: we're talking about Samuel Mudd in this particular case, John

455
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:34,720
Speaker 2: Wilkes Booth with the broken leg him, David Harold, they're

456
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:39,639
Speaker 2: now on their way trying to escape together, and they

457
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:41,320
Speaker 2: go to a bar.

458
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:45,400
Speaker 3: Sir Rottville. There's a surat tavern.

459
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:48,320
Speaker 2: They've changed the name of that now, but I always

460
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 2: think of Mary Sarat, you know, yeah, yeah, being hung

461
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:52,760
Speaker 2: as part of the conspiracy, because that's where they actually

462
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:55,280
Speaker 2: created it. But anyway, so they're at the tavern and

463
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:58,399
Speaker 2: John Wilkes Booth brags to the bartender that he just

464
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 2: killed Abraham Lincoln. Now you're trying to escape. I don't

465
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 2: think telling people this is a good thing. But it's

466
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,720
Speaker 2: Jol's booth. Yeah yeah. But he and David Harold leave

467
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:09,480
Speaker 2: there because they know they got to get the leg treated.

468
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 2: He knows that Samuel Mudd, doctor Mud, is in the area,

469
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:17,119
Speaker 2: and he goes to doctor Mudd's house and gets him

470
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 2: to set the leg. There is a lot of different

471
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:23,000
Speaker 2: stories told about whether or not Mud was involved in

472
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 2: a conspiracy, if he was on the side of Booth

473
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 2: or whatever. The one thing that has been said is

474
00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 2: that Mud, doctor Samuel Mudd, did know John Willis Booth

475
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:37,119
Speaker 2: from a conspiracy. They had to kidnap the president a

476
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 2: year before. I don't even know if that's true. It's

477
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:40,320
Speaker 2: just part of our.

478
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 1: Lord it's hard. It's really hard to validate that. And

479
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:47,720
Speaker 1: I know what's you know, and what I was mentioning

480
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:53,000
Speaker 1: is that Samuel Mudd was the great grandfather of Roger Mudd.

481
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 1: And when you and I were kids, Roger Mudd was

482
00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 1: on the nightly news every night. You know, you're sitting

483
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:03,080
Speaker 1: there and yeah, I mean, how many times as kids

484
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:03,960
Speaker 1: did we watch him.

485
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:06,480
Speaker 2: The one thing that comes to mind with him for

486
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 2: me politics, because he was a political reporter, you know,

487
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 2: for years, and it was Roger Mudd.

488
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 3: Think about it.

489
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:17,120
Speaker 2: We were talking about the different connections between the Kennedy

490
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 2: assassination and the Lincoln assassination. And in this particular case

491
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 2: where Samuel Mudd fixed the leg of John Willis Booth

492
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 2: during his escape, Roger Mudd is talking to John to

493
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:34,240
Speaker 2: Teddy Kennedy right before in nineteen seventy nine. It happened

494
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 2: on November fourth, nineteen seventy nine, they have this interview

495
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 2: on national television. They're hoping ted Kennedy will announce that

496
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 2: he is running for the Democratic nomination for president, even

497
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:47,200
Speaker 2: though Jimmy Carter is a Democrat and he's the incumbent,

498
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:50,960
Speaker 2: and at that time, polling showed that Kennedy. Ted Kennedy

499
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:54,880
Speaker 2: was favored two to one over Jimmy Carter and the

500
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:59,000
Speaker 2: in his party. So this is they were hoping he

501
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 2: would announce that on nationh television with Roger Mudd. He

502
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 2: didn't and asked it a couple of days later. But

503
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 2: there was a question that Roger Mudd asked that night

504
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:12,400
Speaker 2: in front of a nationwide audience. He asks Ted Kennedy,

505
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:18,480
Speaker 2: why do you want to be president? Ted Kennedy couldn't

506
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 2: answer it. His campaign ended that night before it ever began.

507
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:26,760
Speaker 2: He never regained his footing. He did not win the nomination.

508
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 2: Carter got the nomination and lost in a landslide to Reagan,

509
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:33,960
Speaker 2: but his campaign ended with that one question from Roger Mudd.

510
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 1: Isn't that amazing the way history kind of entangles itself

511
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:41,520
Speaker 1: like this? It's fascinating to look back and look. I

512
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:45,480
Speaker 1: want to give doctor Mudd his due real quick, and

513
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:48,600
Speaker 1: it's important to remember this, and I'm trying not to

514
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 1: bury the lead here, but doctor Samuel Mudd was eventually arrested.

515
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 1: He was charged, I think as a conspirator, probably relative

516
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 1: to treason. He was actually sent to If you can

517
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 1: imagine how hillacious this would have been actually sent to

518
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:09,600
Speaker 1: an army prison in Florida. You imagine how hot that was. Well,

519
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:12,040
Speaker 1: what did they have? They had a fever outbreak that

520
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:15,000
Speaker 1: occurred down there, and you know, he distinguished himself while

521
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 1: he was there, and he begins to treat everybody guards,

522
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:24,920
Speaker 1: he treats family members, he treats prisoners and tries to

523
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 1: pull them back from the edge. And you know, whether

524
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:31,760
Speaker 1: or not Mud himself was actually involved, and I'm talking

525
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:34,960
Speaker 1: about doctor Samuel Mudd as part of conspiracy, I don't know.

526
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:39,200
Speaker 1: But again it goes back to this idea that things

527
00:31:39,280 --> 00:32:01,479
Speaker 1: aren't always as they've seen. So the powers that be,

528
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:08,720
Speaker 1: primarily Stanton back in Washington, Stanton was the Secretary of War.

529
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 1: I believe that's correct. They're frustrated because they haven't found

530
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:18,760
Speaker 1: Booth and there, as they say, they're curry combing the uh,

531
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:21,880
Speaker 1: the landscape out there trying to find him, and they've

532
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 1: got they've actually got military detachments. These soldiers that are

533
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 1: assigned to these these troopers. It's not like they're seasoned veterans.

534
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:34,720
Speaker 1: These guys have stared down war. They've been through just hell,

535
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 1: you know, over low these many years since you know,

536
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 1: since the war broke out, and they had Calvary units

537
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:45,720
Speaker 1: that were out searching, searching and looking for Booth and

538
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 1: anybody else that could could have been, you know, linked

539
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 1: to him. And but this is what they wanted, Dave.

540
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 1: They they didn't want to have they didn't want to

541
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:02,280
Speaker 1: have a hide that they could tack to the wall.

542
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 1: They wanted this guy alive. Yes, they wanted him alive

543
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:09,400
Speaker 1: because they wanted to try to understand what had happened.

544
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:12,880
Speaker 1: They wanted him, I think, to stand up before court

545
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:16,960
Speaker 1: and have to stand and deliver, say what he did,

546
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 1: you know actually, and maybe point to anybody else in

547
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:24,600
Speaker 1: needs the peripherals. But you know, they unfortunately the country

548
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:26,480
Speaker 1: was not going to get that satisfaction.

549
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:30,160
Speaker 2: You know, it's interesting Joe that the John Wills Booth

550
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:34,920
Speaker 2: kills Lincoln and then as he's on his run, he

551
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:37,560
Speaker 2: and David Harold they get the leg set at doctor

552
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:40,600
Speaker 2: Mudd's house. Doctor Mudd kicks them out. They're trying to

553
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 2: find another Confederate guy and it's at night. They're having

554
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,080
Speaker 2: trouble finding him, and they stumble upon the house of

555
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 2: Oswald Swan, who is a free black man. He's got

556
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:54,960
Speaker 2: a cabin and so he doesn't know what's happening with Lincoln.

557
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:55,520
Speaker 3: He doesn't know.

558
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 2: He just got two guys. They need help, and so

559
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 2: he really wasn't given a lot of opportunity to say no.

560
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:03,600
Speaker 2: But he did lead them to the home of the

561
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:06,640
Speaker 2: Confederate that they were looking for. The guy's names escaping me.

562
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:09,920
Speaker 2: It was a coxplantation that they were trying to find.

563
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:13,560
Speaker 2: They pay the man they paid no. John Wolkes Booth,

564
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:17,520
Speaker 2: David Harrold's Booth kills the President, kills Lincoln, and then

565
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:21,960
Speaker 2: paying a black man twelve dollars to lead them to

566
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:23,000
Speaker 2: their Confederate.

567
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 3: They end up.

568
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:27,640
Speaker 2: This happens another time too with the Lucas family. During

569
00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:30,719
Speaker 2: this time they're on the run, nobody will help him.

570
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:34,200
Speaker 2: John Wolkes Booth is getting mad every step along the way.

571
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:36,920
Speaker 2: Where he expected to be treated like a hero. They

572
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:40,720
Speaker 2: had all these Confederates, you know, people that were spread

573
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 2: out throughout the area that you know, had they all

574
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:46,640
Speaker 2: talked about helping, We'll be there for you, you know,

575
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 2: whatever you need. But then when he needs their help,

576
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 2: all they're doing is giving him food and saying go,

577
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 2: not giving him money, not giving him just here's some food.

578
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:54,560
Speaker 3: Leave.

579
00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:59,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you can imagine what these people had seen. Yeah,

580
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 1: they've seen the troopers on horses, hell bent for leather,

581
00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:05,839
Speaker 1: and they're yelling and they're screaming, and they're showing up

582
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:10,279
Speaker 1: at barns and homes and you know that this I'm

583
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:12,640
Speaker 1: not sure, but I think that it was still in place.

584
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:17,440
Speaker 1: You know, Lincoln had suspended habeas corpus, right, and so

585
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:20,520
Speaker 1: what that means is, dude, you ain't gonna rights. If

586
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:23,239
Speaker 1: we're looking for somebody, we're coming in your house. And

587
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:28,279
Speaker 1: people are terrified and they understand that they're in a

588
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 1: defeated state. Now the Confederacy, whether or not you were

589
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:33,839
Speaker 1: aligned with the Confederacy in this region or not, and

590
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:36,840
Speaker 1: you were just living your life as as would be.

591
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:42,320
Speaker 1: You know, they knew that well, first off, the Union's

592
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:44,800
Speaker 1: blood was boiling. There were people back in d C.

593
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:49,520
Speaker 1: They did, in fact want blood. They they wanted Booth's

594
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:54,359
Speaker 1: head on a pike and news. I know that they

595
00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:56,360
Speaker 1: didn't live in the world that we live in with

596
00:35:56,080 --> 00:36:01,560
Speaker 1: the quick turnaround on news. Trust me, the word had

597
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:04,839
Speaker 1: gone out at this point in time, and word would

598
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 1: travel fast between these farms. I can only imagine. Oh yeah,

599
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:11,479
Speaker 1: and they knew that if they're caught with this guy.

600
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:14,239
Speaker 2: It was going to be curtains for and so that's

601
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:17,600
Speaker 2: where these people who had been sympathizer all along now

602
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:19,080
Speaker 2: are saying, here's some food.

603
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:19,479
Speaker 3: Leave.

604
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:21,800
Speaker 2: They were making him get off my property. You cannot

605
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 2: stay here. And so he ends up at the home

606
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 2: of a black family, the Lucas family, and uh and

607
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:31,839
Speaker 2: Booth was mad because all these people he thought were

608
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:33,320
Speaker 2: going to provide help, nobody's helping.

609
00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:34,440
Speaker 3: And he's at the end of the day.

610
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 2: He's got no place to sleep, he's got he's hungry,

611
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:39,720
Speaker 2: and he ends up at the home of William Lucas.

612
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:42,600
Speaker 3: Who is a freed slave. He's a black man.

613
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:44,920
Speaker 2: He got his family there in his own cabin and

614
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:49,520
Speaker 2: well and Booth showing his he's so grateful. He grabs

615
00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:52,319
Speaker 2: a knife, threatens mister Lucas and his family and kicks

616
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 2: him out of their own house and sleeps in their

617
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:58,359
Speaker 2: house that night. And anyway, so for the next that

618
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:03,080
Speaker 2: that pretty much winds up the running of John Wilkes Booth.

619
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 2: You know, as we know, he ends up in a barn,

620
00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:08,360
Speaker 2: and this is where they were told, we want him alive.

621
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:10,760
Speaker 2: Do not shoot this man, do not kill this man.

622
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:14,920
Speaker 2: We need to take him alive. And when it comes

623
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:17,480
Speaker 2: right down to it, Joe, He's hiding out in a

624
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:19,360
Speaker 2: tobacco barn with David Harrell.

625
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 3: They're surrounded by.

626
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:27,799
Speaker 2: Guns, weapons, military police, everybody that you know wanted to

627
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 2: get John Wilkes Booth was there and he won't come out,

628
00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:36,160
Speaker 2: and so they decide light the cabin on fire light

629
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 2: or the barn, the tobacco barn. They go to light

630
00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:41,759
Speaker 2: the tobacco barn on fire. David Harrel runs out. All

631
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:43,920
Speaker 2: the while John Wilkes Booth is calling him a coward.

632
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 2: But what happens next is exactly what they didn't want

633
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:48,160
Speaker 2: to have happened.

634
00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:53,600
Speaker 3: John Wilkes Booth gets shot.

635
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 1: One shot, one shot, and that's all it took and

636
00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:03,000
Speaker 1: it was actually fired. Well, first off, interesting things. First Off,

637
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:06,279
Speaker 1: let's talk about the guys shot him. Yeah, you talk

638
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:10,279
Speaker 1: about you know how they talk about the stars are

639
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:13,240
Speaker 1: converging in the heavens, Well, you got two nut jobs

640
00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:19,040
Speaker 1: that are essentially converging on one spot. Okay, Boston Corbett

641
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:21,759
Speaker 1: was the name of the trooper that shot him, and

642
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:25,880
Speaker 1: they were you know, these troops were under direct orders,

643
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:29,560
Speaker 1: you know, under penalty of court martial. To not shoot

644
00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:32,239
Speaker 1: John Wilkes booth. Now they had fired what they call

645
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 1: fire the barn they had the thing had gotten set

646
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:36,560
Speaker 1: on fire and they were gonna try to flush him out.

647
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:39,239
Speaker 1: He was refusing to come out. And if you've ever

648
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:42,239
Speaker 1: you know, I love our area of the country. And

649
00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:44,160
Speaker 1: if you particularly as you start to head up through

650
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:46,919
Speaker 1: the Piedmont, you know, heading northeast and you're going through

651
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:50,440
Speaker 1: North Carolina and Virginia, and you see these old tobacco barns,

652
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 1: the really old ones, I'm not talking about modern ones.

653
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:55,799
Speaker 1: And you can see those those beautiful pieces of wood

654
00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:59,440
Speaker 1: that are seasoned on the outside and there's gaps in

655
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:02,279
Speaker 1: between the slats, and this would have been the case

656
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:05,360
Speaker 1: up there in Virginia as well. You can see what's

657
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 1: going on inside that barn. And so Boston Corbett had

658
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:15,240
Speaker 1: positioned himself with what's referred to as a Colts dragoon,

659
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:23,400
Speaker 1: and it is a Colts dragoon, and dragoons were the

660
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:26,439
Speaker 1: name dragoon actually had to do with cavalry mounts. And

661
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 1: these pistols were so big that you wouldn't you could

662
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:33,360
Speaker 1: wear it in your belt, but many of these guys

663
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:36,560
Speaker 1: kept these in holsters on their saddle, and someone would

664
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:40,320
Speaker 1: carry two and they're big, really big, and it's a muzzle.

665
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 1: It's essentially it's like a muzzle loading. You can take

666
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:46,320
Speaker 1: the you can actually take the cylinder out and load

667
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:54,279
Speaker 1: it individually. And so Corbett has the opportunity to sit

668
00:39:54,360 --> 00:40:00,800
Speaker 1: there and watch Booth. Okay, he's got this great shooting

669
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:04,120
Speaker 1: position that he's in, and he pops off one round

670
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:09,680
Speaker 1: and it clips eclips Booth in his cervical spine. Of

671
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:12,920
Speaker 1: course they have to evacuate him out. But back to Corbett,

672
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:16,000
Speaker 1: what makes the starry on fire Barnes on fire? Yeah,

673
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 1: and he knows it. And you know, I think Corbett,

674
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:22,960
Speaker 1: going back he is to say that he is a

675
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:27,560
Speaker 1: religious zealot is probably an insult to religious zelots. He

676
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:29,759
Speaker 1: at early he was born in London, and to think

677
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:32,640
Speaker 1: about it, is he from an early early on in

678
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:39,440
Speaker 1: his life he was exposed to mercury. Mercury fumes probably

679
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:41,520
Speaker 1: around you know, and that's that's where the term mad

680
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:44,120
Speaker 1: hatter comes from. Yeah, you know, because mercury was used,

681
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:46,880
Speaker 1: and so he had displayed all kinds of psychoses, you know,

682
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 1: throughout his life. So much so, Dave, are you ready

683
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:52,600
Speaker 1: for this? Are you ready for this, as if this

684
00:40:52,680 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 1: story couldn't get any more bizarre. Boston Corbett. Boston Corbett

685
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:07,359
Speaker 1: self castrated himself. He had taken his testicles off so

686
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:12,120
Speaker 1: that he could remain focused on God and God's work,

687
00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:18,560
Speaker 1: and in his world, God's work was abolition, and that

688
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:21,680
Speaker 1: that was his primary focus in life. And so this,

689
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:26,320
Speaker 1: you know, interestingly enough, he struck a blow. I think,

690
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:29,200
Speaker 1: probably at least in his own mind, that this was

691
00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:34,279
Speaker 1: going to be a great, big, fat, giant red exclamation

692
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:37,560
Speaker 1: point on everything, you know, and he had that one

693
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:40,239
Speaker 1: and he'd I don't think that he if he cared

694
00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:42,040
Speaker 1: if he was going to swing from a sour apple

695
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:44,439
Speaker 1: tree or not. You know, they were going to tie

696
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:46,600
Speaker 1: a rope around his neck, and of course I think

697
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:49,200
Speaker 1: that some people probably viewed him as as a hero,

698
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:52,880
Speaker 1: and that's that's what he wanted. But yeah, you know,

699
00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:55,480
Speaker 1: when when they dragged Booth out, he's still alive, and

700
00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:59,800
Speaker 1: he lives, Dave, I think, I think for two to

701
00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:03,560
Speaker 1: three hours, and the troopers are all gathered around him,

702
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 1: and his last request before he dies is he asked

703
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:12,480
Speaker 1: to see his hands, and they hold his hands up

704
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:15,040
Speaker 1: to him, because you know, we're talking about an insult

705
00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:18,839
Speaker 1: that's like C four, C five, C six. First off,

706
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:21,920
Speaker 1: he's it's hard to believe that he survived that long

707
00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:25,760
Speaker 1: with that kind of injury, because he's got a ball

708
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:28,399
Speaker 1: that's passing through there, lead ball that's passing through there.

709
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:31,239
Speaker 1: It clips the spinal cord. And you know, as you know,

710
00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 1: the closer you get to the brain with damage to

711
00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:38,520
Speaker 1: the spinal cord, there's there's a less likelihood that you're

712
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:41,040
Speaker 1: going to survive this because you know, you're starting to

713
00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:44,440
Speaker 1: get into all these functions that require these neurons be

714
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:47,799
Speaker 1: firing all of the time. But he survived for that,

715
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:50,440
Speaker 1: and I think like his last words were something along

716
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:56,680
Speaker 1: the line of useless, useless, and then he dies. But

717
00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:03,040
Speaker 1: the question then becomes, how do we how do we

718
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:07,319
Speaker 1: validate this? And back then they didn't have DNA. Heck,

719
00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:10,560
Speaker 1: they didn't even have fingerprints, Dave, I mean we you know,

720
00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:14,560
Speaker 1: the ancient Chinese. Yeah, I mean we leave, we were

721
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:17,480
Speaker 1: leaving fingerprints back then, but they were not being used

722
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:22,319
Speaker 1: for identification. Okay, yeah, that's not that's something that would

723
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:26,640
Speaker 1: not come along until I don't know, sir Henry developed it,

724
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:30,240
Speaker 1: you know in India where he had the Henry system,

725
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:32,880
Speaker 1: and so it was not something that was recognized. So

726
00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:38,439
Speaker 1: you had to have people visually, you know, identify and

727
00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:44,520
Speaker 1: you're talking about a body that's unpreserved. And why is

728
00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:46,799
Speaker 1: it important. Well, out of all the cases day from

729
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 1: a medical legal perspective, and a homicide like this, you

730
00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:55,560
Speaker 1: if you're in a political position, you have to assure

731
00:43:56,840 --> 00:44:01,040
Speaker 1: the public that this is in fact John Wilkes Booth.

732
00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:05,359
Speaker 1: He's dead. He is dead. We have we can validate that.

733
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:08,879
Speaker 1: And and so what winds up happening is that they

734
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:12,440
Speaker 1: wrap his body up and you know, throw him on

735
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:15,640
Speaker 1: the back of a horse. You know, we've seen you know,

736
00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:18,600
Speaker 1: you've seen Western movies, you know where the bounty hunter

737
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:21,239
Speaker 1: will go out and you know, bring bring a body in,

738
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:23,520
Speaker 1: you know, to and I don't know there were probably

739
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:27,120
Speaker 1: other mediums of transportation for them at that point in time,

740
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 1: but along the way. But initially they rode off with

741
00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:35,040
Speaker 1: his body wrapped up in an army blanket and they

742
00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:37,640
Speaker 1: had to get him somewhere, you know, under they were

743
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:40,920
Speaker 1: being directed by Stanton at this point in time, and people,

744
00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:45,920
Speaker 1: I don't think that people really understand how powerful Stanton was.

745
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:50,560
Speaker 1: He was for these people. He was Lord Almighty on Earth.

746
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:54,360
Speaker 1: He controlled the military. He was the Secretary of War

747
00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:58,120
Speaker 1: as they called it back then, and he, you know,

748
00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:00,720
Speaker 1: he he laid down the law and that's what they wanted,

749
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:03,480
Speaker 1: and that's what was going to have to happen. So

750
00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:07,400
Speaker 1: they wind up taking Booth's body to of all things,

751
00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:12,680
Speaker 1: a gunboat, a gunboat that was you know, anchored out

752
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:14,600
Speaker 1: in the river, and took him out there. And they

753
00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:19,640
Speaker 1: actually did an autopsy on John Wilkes Boo's body on

754
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:22,680
Speaker 1: the deck of this gunboat. And before they did that,

755
00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:26,920
Speaker 1: they had several people that they knew that new Booth,

756
00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:31,160
Speaker 1: and they brought them on board and showed the face.

757
00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:33,440
Speaker 3: They had to get that visual ide, didn't they.

758
00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:36,759
Speaker 1: I mean they had to because it was essential. You

759
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:40,360
Speaker 1: had to have it because there would always be questions.

760
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:43,239
Speaker 1: I mean, think about all the you know, all of

761
00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:46,000
Speaker 1: the kind of uh these comments that are made now

762
00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:53,759
Speaker 1: about people tenfold hats, all this thing. Yeah, it's a

763
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:56,200
Speaker 1: flat earth, those sorts of things, and so, you know,

764
00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:58,520
Speaker 1: you had they understood this, I think they may have

765
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:01,560
Speaker 1: understood it better than we did, uh, you know. And

766
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:04,440
Speaker 1: and what was kind of interesting was that Booth for

767
00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:08,640
Speaker 1: this particular time, they he actually had a he actually

768
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:12,880
Speaker 1: had a tattoo which I found fascinating, and it was

769
00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:16,200
Speaker 1: his initials. It was JB. You know. And of course

770
00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:19,600
Speaker 1: they were able to identify his his body visa VI that.

771
00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:22,480
Speaker 1: But you know, these surgeons are out there. Uh. And

772
00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:26,680
Speaker 1: I've I've actually assisted with autopsies in an outdoor situation

773
00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:31,760
Speaker 1: where we had multiple deaths. Uh. It's hot, you're dealing

774
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:35,759
Speaker 1: with flies, and most of the time you're gonna have

775
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:39,839
Speaker 1: a number of people standing around you while you're under

776
00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:44,200
Speaker 1: these miserable conditions. I've actually done an autopsy in a

777
00:46:44,239 --> 00:46:48,279
Speaker 1: barn before, believe it or not. And yeah, uh and

778
00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:51,400
Speaker 1: again it was adjacent to a plane crash and we

779
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:54,120
Speaker 1: had to do these in space that we had available

780
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:54,440
Speaker 1: to us.

781
00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:54,840
Speaker 3: Wow.

782
00:46:55,280 --> 00:47:02,759
Speaker 1: Uh yeah. And so in in their examination, the what

783
00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:07,640
Speaker 1: in their own language, this doctor Joseph Woodward that actually

784
00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:10,280
Speaker 1: did the autopsy. They wound up doing the autopsy on

785
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:19,120
Speaker 1: April April twenty eighth. Booth had I think his date

786
00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:22,959
Speaker 1: of death was actually April twenty six, So two days

787
00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:25,920
Speaker 1: later they're having to cross all of this this countryside

788
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:29,640
Speaker 1: to get to the to get to to get to

789
00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:34,520
Speaker 1: this this warship that was out there so what would

790
00:47:34,520 --> 00:47:39,080
Speaker 1: happen is is that you would get essentially two saw horses. Okay,

791
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:41,520
Speaker 1: everybody knows what a saw horse is, right, you know,

792
00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:44,799
Speaker 1: you cut wood on it, and in this environment, you

793
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:49,160
Speaker 1: take like an old door and it's obviously off the hinges.

794
00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:53,920
Speaker 1: You lay the old door over the saw horses, and

795
00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:58,200
Speaker 1: you have at it. You do your autopsy on the

796
00:47:58,239 --> 00:48:02,000
Speaker 1: surface of an old door like that, and they're out

797
00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:04,960
Speaker 1: on the deck of the ship and they're examining his body,

798
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:09,040
Speaker 1: and the things that he did confirm at autopsy is

799
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:11,600
Speaker 1: that And this is a fascinating point here when we

800
00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:16,040
Speaker 1: begin in forensics to talk about range of fire. The

801
00:48:16,080 --> 00:48:20,319
Speaker 1: doctor in his own way, actually said that this was

802
00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:24,680
Speaker 1: an indeterminate range of fire because he states in his

803
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:30,839
Speaker 1: examination that the projectile was fired from yards away. So

804
00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:33,080
Speaker 1: how do you come to that conclusion That means that

805
00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:34,680
Speaker 1: you're not going to have stipling, you're not going to

806
00:48:34,719 --> 00:48:37,640
Speaker 1: have powder deposition. He didn't see it, so he knew

807
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:39,239
Speaker 1: that it had to be yards away. And then you've

808
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:43,280
Speaker 1: got the circumstantial evidence of Corbett standing in that crack

809
00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:47,120
Speaker 1: of the barn, or placing that gigantic pistol in the

810
00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:50,880
Speaker 1: crack of the arm of the barn and firing that weapon,

811
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:58,120
Speaker 1: and that it actually penetrated the fourth cervical vertebra and

812
00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:01,839
Speaker 1: it cut through the muscle that its essentially that kind

813
00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:05,080
Speaker 1: of comes down off of the side of the neck

814
00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:07,960
Speaker 1: and wraps around the clavicle. So if you can just

815
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:13,279
Speaker 1: envision this, uh in your in your mind, that it's

816
00:49:13,040 --> 00:49:17,200
Speaker 1: the round actually enters. If folks at home will just

817
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:20,640
Speaker 1: kind of imagine if you'll find that that bony protuberance

818
00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:23,520
Speaker 1: on the back of your head, uh, your oxy put

819
00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:28,320
Speaker 1: and kind of go down about four maybe three inches

820
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:31,080
Speaker 1: down your neck, the backside of your neck. That's going

821
00:49:31,120 --> 00:49:35,800
Speaker 1: to approximate the location where that round struck his body.

822
00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:37,759
Speaker 1: It'll only be on the right side of the neck.

823
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:42,960
Speaker 1: And so it clipped also the fifth, the fifth vertebra

824
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:51,359
Speaker 1: as well. He was able to determine the directionality, if

825
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:55,200
Speaker 1: you will, and this is this is interesting. It was

826
00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:59,720
Speaker 1: kind of a downward trajectory. So when Corbett fired this round,

827
00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:04,239
Speaker 1: it's traveling downward towards the target and he's yards away

828
00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:08,440
Speaker 1: with this thing. And you know, pistols are not fantastically accurate,

829
00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:11,440
Speaker 1: but he scored as I think that he was probably

830
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:15,840
Speaker 1: aiming for the head and he hit the neck. But still,

831
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:18,080
Speaker 1: you know, when you look at it with a pistol shot,

832
00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:21,680
Speaker 1: that's a pretty impressive shot. And so when it it

833
00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:27,600
Speaker 1: traverses through traverses through the the you know, the neck,

834
00:50:27,640 --> 00:50:30,200
Speaker 1: it actually exits out of the out of the left

835
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:34,560
Speaker 1: left side, and you know, that's that's eventually what what

836
00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:38,440
Speaker 1: brought brought about his death. And you know, the doctor

837
00:50:38,719 --> 00:50:44,360
Speaker 1: had probably they understood enough enough neuroscience at that point

838
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:47,480
Speaker 1: to understand that at certain points along you know, the

839
00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:51,160
Speaker 1: spinal column, if areas along there are clipped, uh, it's

840
00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:54,880
Speaker 1: going to you know, impact your ability to move and

841
00:50:54,920 --> 00:50:57,920
Speaker 1: those sorts of things. And they, you know, they they

842
00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:01,000
Speaker 1: talked about how he went into a general proalysis and

843
00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:07,600
Speaker 1: also this area control the diaphragm. Day, so the patient

844
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:11,120
Speaker 1: begins to suffer from this kind of shallow breathing or

845
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:14,839
Speaker 1: the diaphragm will not no longer work. The individual has

846
00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:16,960
Speaker 1: to be manipulated and moved in order for them to

847
00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:20,279
Speaker 1: take up just minimum amount of oxygen. And that's what

848
00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:24,920
Speaker 1: they were faced with. And there were you know, it

849
00:51:25,480 --> 00:51:30,720
Speaker 1: it was an unsurvivable wound to say the very least.

850
00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:34,680
Speaker 1: The fact that they were able to annotate this trauma

851
00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:39,640
Speaker 1: and do it in such very exacting terms, which is

852
00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:43,000
Speaker 1: fascinating to me, Dave. Where they talk about this this

853
00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:45,920
Speaker 1: kind of area of hemorrhage, I would imagine that if

854
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:49,680
Speaker 1: you're talking about a two day ride, you've already got

855
00:51:49,719 --> 00:51:52,800
Speaker 1: this blood, these vessels have been clipped in the spinal cord.

856
00:51:53,160 --> 00:51:57,080
Speaker 1: You've got this kind of it's not necrosis at this point,

857
00:51:57,160 --> 00:52:00,800
Speaker 1: it's it's actually decomposition that's going on. So at that level,

858
00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:02,480
Speaker 1: and what they would have done is they would have

859
00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:07,640
Speaker 1: gone in posteriorly and or antirily after they got the

860
00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:10,440
Speaker 1: organs of the neck like the wind pipe and everything

861
00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:13,880
Speaker 1: cleared out. They're taking out these vertebral bodies. They're going

862
00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:16,279
Speaker 1: to take them out, They're going to clip them away,

863
00:52:16,320 --> 00:52:20,000
Speaker 1: they're going to pull the whole thing out. And interestingly enough,

864
00:52:20,040 --> 00:52:23,040
Speaker 1: they saved some of these specimens, and I think, if

865
00:52:23,080 --> 00:52:26,400
Speaker 1: I'm not mistaken, they can actually be viewed at the

866
00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:31,120
Speaker 1: Mutter Museum, which is actually in Philadelphia, which is a

867
00:52:31,160 --> 00:52:33,759
Speaker 1: fascinating place. It's all kinds of medical anomalies and all

868
00:52:33,800 --> 00:52:39,279
Speaker 1: these sorts of things. Isn't that fascinating though, that they

869
00:52:39,320 --> 00:52:41,719
Speaker 1: were able to make this diagnosis and as a matter

870
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:43,799
Speaker 1: of fact, compared to some of the autopsies that I

871
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:46,520
Speaker 1: read even today and review in all the cases that

872
00:52:46,560 --> 00:52:48,400
Speaker 1: I do for our show and Nancy Show and all

873
00:52:48,440 --> 00:52:52,560
Speaker 1: these other things, this was actually very well done. But

874
00:52:52,640 --> 00:52:54,560
Speaker 1: a lot of that goes back to the War Department

875
00:52:54,880 --> 00:53:00,480
Speaker 1: with Stanton. He wanted exactitude in this. He wanted everything

876
00:53:00,520 --> 00:53:04,719
Speaker 1: to be confirmed. But you know, at the end what

877
00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:10,720
Speaker 1: became of Wilkes's body is kind of fascinating. They we

878
00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:14,640
Speaker 1: had these great, big, old Springfield muzzle loading rifles, you

879
00:53:14,680 --> 00:53:17,799
Speaker 1: know that our guys used, and they're very heavy, and

880
00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:20,239
Speaker 1: these things would come packed in a box and they

881
00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:23,240
Speaker 1: were kind of bracketed in there with these wooden brackets.

882
00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:28,759
Speaker 1: They actually took a gun box. They didn't give him

883
00:53:28,760 --> 00:53:32,239
Speaker 1: a coughin. They took an old They took an old

884
00:53:32,239 --> 00:53:35,960
Speaker 1: gun box wrapped his body. How appropriate is this in

885
00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:38,719
Speaker 1: an army blanket in my day when I was in

886
00:53:38,760 --> 00:53:41,360
Speaker 1: the army Army blanket, I can't imagine it would feel

887
00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:45,080
Speaker 1: any better. But uh, their wool, they got a big

888
00:53:45,239 --> 00:53:48,080
Speaker 1: us on them. That's how you had to tuck in

889
00:53:48,160 --> 00:53:52,800
Speaker 1: your bed. And every trooper in the world was issued

890
00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:58,040
Speaker 1: one of these things. They wrapped his body in this

891
00:53:58,560 --> 00:54:01,920
Speaker 1: in an army blanket, put it inside of a gun box,

892
00:54:02,200 --> 00:54:08,319
Speaker 1: and then took him, dug a big hole down underneath

893
00:54:09,440 --> 00:54:13,440
Speaker 1: underneath this facility and dropped him in there and then

894
00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:18,839
Speaker 1: essentially covered it up. And that's where his body laid.

895
00:54:18,880 --> 00:54:21,000
Speaker 1: This was actually at the old He was buried in

896
00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:26,000
Speaker 1: the old Penitentiary in the Washington Arsenal Grounds, and you

897
00:54:26,040 --> 00:54:30,680
Speaker 1: know that that was where he wound up coming to rest.

898
00:54:31,520 --> 00:54:34,319
Speaker 1: But you know that the thing is and I think

899
00:54:35,080 --> 00:54:37,399
Speaker 1: I don't normally end shows this way, but I got

900
00:54:37,400 --> 00:54:40,040
Speaker 1: to say I think that looking back on this, and

901
00:54:40,080 --> 00:54:44,439
Speaker 1: we talked about how these moments and times kind of converged, Dave,

902
00:54:47,840 --> 00:54:52,879
Speaker 1: what John Wilkes Booth did to our country set our

903
00:54:52,920 --> 00:54:59,800
Speaker 1: country back probably one hundred and fifty years. And Abraham

904
00:54:59,840 --> 00:55:04,640
Speaker 1: Lee was famous, and again I'm paraphrasing, so please forgive me, y'all.

905
00:55:05,200 --> 00:55:07,880
Speaker 1: He said, at one point in time, he wanted to

906
00:55:07,920 --> 00:55:13,600
Speaker 1: extend mercy to all, mercy to all, and it didn't

907
00:55:13,640 --> 00:55:17,120
Speaker 1: matter you know what your station was. He wanted to

908
00:55:17,160 --> 00:55:21,480
Speaker 1: heal the country. And the problem is is that that

909
00:55:21,560 --> 00:55:27,600
Speaker 1: one person that was in the balance, that held everything

910
00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:31,520
Speaker 1: in the balance, that wanted to extend mercy. He wanted

911
00:55:31,800 --> 00:55:35,600
Speaker 1: the country to heal that wound, any healing that had

912
00:55:35,640 --> 00:55:40,320
Speaker 1: started with that one fired shot that night in Ford's

913
00:55:40,360 --> 00:55:47,480
Speaker 1: theater ripped that wound to shreds and set us back

914
00:55:49,840 --> 00:55:56,480
Speaker 1: years and years and years. As we moved forward, I'm

915
00:55:56,560 --> 00:56:00,440
Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body. It's no