WEBVTT - Noise Pollution, Misophonia + Chewing Rage 0:00:03.760 --> 0:00:11.440 No, really, no, really, Hello everybody, Welcome back to another 0:00:11.480 --> 0:00:15.200 episode of Really Know Really, the podcast with your host 0:00:15.360 --> 0:00:16.840 Jason Alexander. 0:00:16.360 --> 0:00:20.280 And I got my name. I got tired of doing it. 0:00:20.320 --> 0:00:22.599 And this is the show where Peter and I explore 0:00:22.680 --> 0:00:27.720 things that make us say really no, really, yeah. 0:00:26.640 --> 0:00:27.640 Like our relationship. 0:00:28.720 --> 0:00:31.000 Know why we even bother to get together, why we 0:00:31.080 --> 0:00:34.840 have these conversations, why we tolerate each other? Really no, really, 0:00:35.479 --> 0:00:37.559 this is a This is an interesting episode. And I 0:00:37.600 --> 0:00:41.479 know this is going to speak very much when you 0:00:41.600 --> 0:00:41.960 say that. 0:00:42.000 --> 0:00:44.120 When you say that, it does imply all the others 0:00:44.440 --> 0:00:45.640 were rather not interesting. 0:00:45.800 --> 0:00:48.640 Just pointing that out. Just a little note. 0:00:47.680 --> 0:00:52.680 You don't draw on my pages, always drawing on my pages. 0:00:53.240 --> 0:00:57.000 I read a little Tidman and the Charlotte Observer that 0:00:57.040 --> 0:00:59.720 there was a school student, I believe, junior higher high 0:00:59.720 --> 0:01:05.039 schools student in Tennessee, who is suing the Board of 0:01:05.240 --> 0:01:09.600 ed because they refuse to pass a law that would 0:01:09.680 --> 0:01:13.200 ban gum chewing in school. Now, it is not that 0:01:13.680 --> 0:01:17.440 she doesn't like, you know, gum, or that she is 0:01:18.480 --> 0:01:21.880 offended in some way by people chewing gum. It's that 0:01:21.920 --> 0:01:26.800 she suffers from a thing called mesophonia, and the sound 0:01:27.160 --> 0:01:32.520 of gum chewing drives her to distraction, if not to 0:01:32.560 --> 0:01:34.840 the point of breaking. And that's right. 0:01:34.920 --> 0:01:40.240 So this is something that pardon the interruption, but listener note, Jason, 0:01:40.520 --> 0:01:45.040 unbeknownst to Peter, has begun rhythmically clicking on a ballpoint 0:01:45.120 --> 0:01:49.680 pen to test how sensitive Peter's mesophonia is. 0:01:50.200 --> 0:01:51.760 You brought that up, and I said, I have that. 0:01:51.840 --> 0:01:55.360 I didn't realize that I had misophonia. And everybody I 0:01:55.520 --> 0:01:58.520 mention it too, that we're going to do an episode 0:01:58.960 --> 0:02:01.240 starts wondering if they have it, because over twenty percent 0:02:01.240 --> 0:02:03.320 of the population has it. As a matter of fact, 0:02:03.880 --> 0:02:07.200 one of our producers mentioned, we talked about what episode one. 0:02:07.320 --> 0:02:08.480 I think we talked the episode. 0:02:08.639 --> 0:02:13.400 He's been getting push notice find out since that episode, right, me, 0:02:13.520 --> 0:02:15.520 so funny, and we only mentioned he only mentioned it once. 0:02:15.560 --> 0:02:18.320 I heard it mentioned once, and it's been coming out forever, right. 0:02:18.160 --> 0:02:20.760 And you claim you claim sir, to suffer from it. 0:02:20.800 --> 0:02:22.679 So I didn't realize what it was until a couple 0:02:22.720 --> 0:02:27.239 of years ago. But yeah, you're doing with the clicking 0:02:27.240 --> 0:02:29.400 the pet. It's making me crazy. I can't it's so 0:02:29.560 --> 0:02:31.639 distracting to me that it's. 0:02:31.520 --> 0:02:33.440 Not just so this actually does I didn't think you 0:02:33.480 --> 0:02:35.280 would notice because you went at a moment and it 0:02:35.280 --> 0:02:37.320 looked like it. I really I was only doing it 0:02:37.360 --> 0:02:40.360 to see if you would pick up on it. So 0:02:40.440 --> 0:02:41.440 you really did, right. 0:02:41.639 --> 0:02:44.160 But the weird thing, and if you're listening, and we're 0:02:44.160 --> 0:02:46.919 going to talk about the world getting which is incredible, 0:02:46.960 --> 0:02:49.400 how much noisier the world has gotten, and why okay, 0:02:49.880 --> 0:02:52.280 and how many people are afflicted with things now because 0:02:52.280 --> 0:02:54.600 how much noisier the world is and how dangerous that's becoming, 0:02:54.639 --> 0:02:58.120 above and beyond me so phonny, But I think people listening. 0:02:58.840 --> 0:03:00.880 David Googlehin when we were talking about it, said, wait 0:03:00.880 --> 0:03:04.280 a minute, my daughter may everybody starts asking questions because 0:03:04.320 --> 0:03:06.200 I for years just thought I was in the You 0:03:06.240 --> 0:03:08.200 just think you're annoyed by noises, all right, Well it's 0:03:08.240 --> 0:03:11.280 to some degree everybody, everybody everything, Yeah, but the reaction 0:03:12.360 --> 0:03:15.400 is different, and I thought I was just it was 0:03:15.440 --> 0:03:17.919 just me a mess. We would be riding in the car, 0:03:18.040 --> 0:03:20.040 my wife and I'd be talking to this front and 0:03:20.120 --> 0:03:21.760 my kids would be talking in the back, and I 0:03:21.800 --> 0:03:25.280 would be going my stunt. My chest would get tight. 0:03:26.120 --> 0:03:28.680 I could feel my heart beat. It would make me nuts. 0:03:28.720 --> 0:03:31.600 I couldn't I couldn't fight the noise. You couldn't. You 0:03:31.639 --> 0:03:35.520 couldn't get rid of that. That pen cut through everything else. Right, 0:03:35.600 --> 0:03:40.120 my brain focuses on that and I start losing it. 0:03:40.360 --> 0:03:46.360 Loud talkers make me create, like at another table, it's maddening, laughter, laughter, 0:03:46.400 --> 0:03:50.119 at restaurants like like ha ha ha ha. I'm looking 0:03:50.200 --> 0:03:52.400 at them like you're wrong. There's something going on there, 0:03:54.480 --> 0:03:57.760 rustling paper. If it's got a cadence to it, once 0:03:57.840 --> 0:03:59.840 or twice, no, but if it's got a cadence to it, 0:04:00.200 --> 0:04:03.400 me crazy. The kid in the pool, Remember I did 0:04:03.440 --> 0:04:04.600 the thing where the kid was going, look at me, 0:04:04.640 --> 0:04:06.240 look at me, look at me, look at me, Look 0:04:06.240 --> 0:04:07.520 at me, Dad, look at me, look at me. 0:04:07.600 --> 0:04:09.080 And I was the one who yelled out at the 0:04:09.080 --> 0:04:12.280 pool look at him because of me. I just wanted 0:04:12.280 --> 0:04:13.840 to say again it now, listen. 0:04:13.920 --> 0:04:16.000 I used to think you were crazy. You had mentioned 0:04:16.000 --> 0:04:17.839 that you wanted to explore this, and I thought it's 0:04:17.839 --> 0:04:19.640 not a thing. And then you and I were flying 0:04:19.680 --> 0:04:23.279 home the other day. We were flying home from Las Vegas, 0:04:24.120 --> 0:04:27.640 sorry from Saint Louis, so it was a four hour 0:04:27.720 --> 0:04:31.600 flight and you had a lollipop in your mouth on 0:04:31.640 --> 0:04:34.599 a plane, and I have headphones on, but I'm sitting 0:04:34.640 --> 0:04:38.120 next to you, and every five to eight seconds I 0:04:38.120 --> 0:04:45.360 would hear, and I thought, I have to see. This 0:04:45.400 --> 0:04:48.960 is going to be a contest with myself. Now, how 0:04:49.000 --> 0:04:52.880 long can I take this? Well, I outlast the lollipop? 0:04:52.920 --> 0:04:54.400 How long can this long? 0:04:54.480 --> 0:04:55.400 There's no way. 0:04:55.680 --> 0:04:59.560 And after thirty I timed it. After thirty two minutes, 0:05:00.200 --> 0:05:02.240 lost it And he turns to me out of nowhere 0:05:02.240 --> 0:05:04.600 and said, I'm either gonna shove that down in your 0:05:04.600 --> 0:05:06.080 throat or yank it out of your mouth. 0:05:07.800 --> 0:05:11.120 Goddamn lollipop. Did you ever feel that about anything else 0:05:11.160 --> 0:05:12.839 with the sound? Did sound to ever make you creative? 0:05:13.000 --> 0:05:15.320 I'm not sure that I suffer quite from this, but 0:05:15.480 --> 0:05:18.920 I feel that within seconds of and and the other 0:05:18.960 --> 0:05:22.359 thing that's really weird that I didn't notice until we 0:05:22.440 --> 0:05:25.000 were talking about this episode, Like leaf Blower, to me, 0:05:25.040 --> 0:05:27.359 it was all noises and cadence. But we have an 0:05:27.360 --> 0:05:30.120 elderly dog who's fifteen and a half and he's on 0:05:30.200 --> 0:05:33.560 medication and he's doing okay, but at night he licks 0:05:33.600 --> 0:05:36.120 the floor and paces. My wife can watch him all 0:05:36.200 --> 0:05:39.159 night long, doesn't do anything to her. I go out 0:05:39.200 --> 0:05:42.880 of my mind because of the patient. The Cadence are pacing. Literally, 0:05:42.960 --> 0:05:45.080 I can't watch TV. I get so distracted about. 0:05:45.000 --> 0:05:48.240 You need a team of psychologists and psychiatrists. No, we're 0:05:48.279 --> 0:05:50.480 not working around the clock. Twenty four second This was 0:05:50.520 --> 0:05:53.080 a line on Seinfeld that was said from Jerry to George. 0:05:53.560 --> 0:05:56.799 It was, you need a team of therapist working around 0:05:56.800 --> 0:05:59.160 the clock to help you. 0:05:59.680 --> 0:06:00.520 I have one of them. 0:06:00.560 --> 0:06:04.719 We found out yes, over twenty that we know of. Yes, 0:06:04.839 --> 0:06:08.880 over twenty percent of the population deals with this. But 0:06:09.040 --> 0:06:10.800 like me, didn't know to bring it up, because what 0:06:10.839 --> 0:06:13.240 do you say to your wife. I want to stronger 0:06:13.240 --> 0:06:15.320 you and put a pillow over your face and kill 0:06:15.360 --> 0:06:16.600 you if you eat another pistachial. 0:06:16.720 --> 0:06:18.559 That's nice, that's a nice way, But you're just being honest. 0:06:19.040 --> 0:06:22.440 It's like it's like to somebody else, if you're at 0:06:22.440 --> 0:06:24.320 home right now, pick the worst sound you could ever 0:06:24.480 --> 0:06:28.080 think of that makes you crazy, like talkboard. You know 0:06:28.160 --> 0:06:30.520 how you feel. That's how I feel when she's feeling this. 0:06:30.680 --> 0:06:33.120 That's how I feel walking with you constantly. Let's talk 0:06:33.600 --> 0:06:35.680 to someone who might be able to help you. We 0:06:35.760 --> 0:06:38.200 are happy to welcome doctor Jane Gregory, who is a 0:06:38.200 --> 0:06:42.839 clinical psychologist and a mesophonia researcher. Peter and I founded 0:06:42.880 --> 0:06:45.920 the first two mesophonia clinics, one in London and one 0:06:45.960 --> 0:06:47.640 in Oxford, and at the end of this episode, I'm 0:06:47.680 --> 0:06:50.000 sending you to the one of your choice. She has 0:06:50.120 --> 0:06:53.120 co authored the S five, the world's first valid and 0:06:53.160 --> 0:06:57.720 reliable questionnaire that captures the complexity of the mesophonia experience. 0:06:58.000 --> 0:06:59.920 As She's also the author of the book Sounds Like Me. 0:07:00.000 --> 0:07:04.440 He'son how to stop small sounds from causing extreme almost reactions. 0:07:04.480 --> 0:07:07.840 That's almost a comedy titles sound like right, And. 0:07:07.880 --> 0:07:10.240 I'm actually delighted to introduce her, but then I feel 0:07:10.240 --> 0:07:11.920 like I should shut up because I'm worried that every 0:07:11.960 --> 0:07:14.600 sound I'm making is driving her up the wall. Welcome, 0:07:14.840 --> 0:07:16.280 Welcome to you, doctor Gregory. 0:07:16.400 --> 0:07:18.360 Nice to have you here on really, no, really, thanks 0:07:18.360 --> 0:07:20.200 for having me, and thanks for starting with the sound 0:07:20.240 --> 0:07:25.920 that drives me mad. Yeah, flashbacks to exams in high 0:07:25.920 --> 0:07:27.480 school with people just clicking it. 0:07:27.800 --> 0:07:28.000 You know. 0:07:28.080 --> 0:07:30.240 It was our it was our producer David Guggenheim that 0:07:30.280 --> 0:07:32.880 said you should try and figure out what's going to 0:07:32.920 --> 0:07:34.520 get Peter and get him going on. I went, yeah, 0:07:34.520 --> 0:07:36.760 but what if the doctor and. 0:07:36.680 --> 0:07:37.280 He didn't care. 0:07:37.320 --> 0:07:39.040 He was callous to your needs and concern. 0:07:39.200 --> 0:07:41.160 May I just say, but I actually I was. 0:07:41.240 --> 0:07:43.800 I was testing to see because when Peter was focused 0:07:43.920 --> 0:07:47.880 on starting the show, I wanted to see specifically if 0:07:47.920 --> 0:07:49.960 it's something that you have to be focused on, is 0:07:50.000 --> 0:07:53.600 it Is it happening only when you know you're not 0:07:53.880 --> 0:07:57.760 focused or where any stimulation could get to you, or 0:07:57.960 --> 0:07:59.880 or you know, is it something that could cut through 0:08:00.000 --> 0:08:01.760 even when he was focused on something else? What do 0:08:01.800 --> 0:08:05.000 you find is the truth to that? Do people generally 0:08:05.600 --> 0:08:07.920 if they have this, no matter what they're doing, where 0:08:07.920 --> 0:08:10.040 they are, what they're focused on, it will cut through. 0:08:10.320 --> 0:08:12.480 I think there are some sounds that will probably cut through, 0:08:12.520 --> 0:08:15.440 Like eating sounds are the biggest ones, and it's just 0:08:16.240 --> 0:08:18.440 it's almost like their brains are waiting for it to happen, 0:08:18.600 --> 0:08:21.400 and so once it starts, it's there. But there was 0:08:21.440 --> 0:08:23.160 actually a studies, and I think it was at Concordia 0:08:23.240 --> 0:08:28.360 University where they had people with low levels of misophonia 0:08:28.680 --> 0:08:33.240 as in not misophonia and high misophonia, and they masked 0:08:33.520 --> 0:08:36.480 a sound with another sound, and so that once they 0:08:36.679 --> 0:08:40.360 took the other sound away, eventually the trigger sound would 0:08:40.440 --> 0:08:44.960 be detectable and there was no difference at the point 0:08:45.000 --> 0:08:48.320 at which they detected the trigger sound, really and so 0:08:49.000 --> 0:08:52.000 it's probably more that they're listening out for sounds. They're 0:08:52.040 --> 0:08:54.520 more likely to be looking for sounds or listening out 0:08:54.520 --> 0:08:57.760 for sounds than actually there being a mechanism that makes 0:08:57.800 --> 0:09:02.280 them be able to detect it sooner. But the other 0:09:02.320 --> 0:09:05.000 thing is that once they've heard it, aren't tune it out, 0:09:05.600 --> 0:09:09.160 whereas somebody without misophonia might hear that click not even 0:09:09.240 --> 0:09:12.040 register it because they've tuned it out so quickly. Whereas 0:09:12.080 --> 0:09:13.840 if once I've heard a pen clicking or a clock 0:09:13.880 --> 0:09:17.440 ticking is another yeah, I've everyone needs to know which 0:09:17.480 --> 0:09:19.480 office I was in when I was working, because I 0:09:19.520 --> 0:09:21.920 would either leave the clock out the door and so 0:09:22.000 --> 0:09:23.760 it would just be sitting outside the door, or I 0:09:23.760 --> 0:09:25.679 would take the batteries out and then forget to put 0:09:25.679 --> 0:09:27.520 them back in because the clocks were. 0:09:27.400 --> 0:09:29.120 Just what are the sounds? Do you have a list? 0:09:29.200 --> 0:09:31.640 Give me your list of stuff that really sets you? 0:09:31.679 --> 0:09:33.679 Well, my biggest one, so those sort of like clicky, 0:09:33.760 --> 0:09:38.480 ticky sounds, the classic eating sounds, really heavy breathing sounds, 0:09:38.480 --> 0:09:40.640 which I mean that's obviously a bit creepy anyway, But 0:09:41.720 --> 0:09:44.200 and then the weirdest one for me is the sound 0:09:44.200 --> 0:09:48.160 of pigeons, that repetitive kind of we're not quite cooling 0:09:48.200 --> 0:09:49.160 sound that pigeons make. 0:09:49.360 --> 0:09:51.199 Oh, that's sort of almost like throat thing. 0:09:52.960 --> 0:09:54.280 Well, I get woodpeckers kill me. 0:09:54.480 --> 0:09:58.239 If a woodpecker's really going at it, I really it's 0:09:58.320 --> 0:10:04.680 your okay, also owls, owls, the whot it makes me nuts, 0:10:04.880 --> 0:10:08.120 the neighbor's alarm as it goes off, be backup when 0:10:08.160 --> 0:10:09.160 trucks are backing up. 0:10:09.480 --> 0:10:13.800 Yeah, alarms and reverse sounds. They're actually designed for you 0:10:13.880 --> 0:10:16.400 not to ignore them, so they're meant to not be ignored, 0:10:16.840 --> 0:10:20.480 whereas with misophonia it sounds that most people would be 0:10:20.520 --> 0:10:23.920 able to eventually tune them out, but people with misphonia can't. 0:10:24.400 --> 0:10:27.600 For instance, going back to eating sounds, is it equally 0:10:27.600 --> 0:10:30.280 disturbing to you or other people if you are the 0:10:30.320 --> 0:10:31.360 person making the sound. 0:10:31.640 --> 0:10:33.200 No, it doesn't affect me. 0:10:33.960 --> 0:10:34.840 Why would that be. 0:10:35.920 --> 0:10:37.800 There's something to do with control, Like if I'm in 0:10:37.840 --> 0:10:39.680 control of the sound, I know I can stop it 0:10:39.679 --> 0:10:42.520 at any time. Like if I could pause the person 0:10:42.600 --> 0:10:45.280 eating opposite me, I would probably be fine. That's one 0:10:45.320 --> 0:10:46.840 of the things I actually do in therapy, just to 0:10:46.880 --> 0:10:50.240 sort of regain a sense of control is get the person, 0:10:50.280 --> 0:10:52.640 pretend you've got a remote control and pause and fast 0:10:52.679 --> 0:10:55.360 forward and slow it down, and it just helps to 0:10:55.480 --> 0:10:57.360 just create new associations in the brain where it sort 0:10:57.360 --> 0:10:59.080 of makes you feel more in control of the sound, 0:10:59.120 --> 0:11:02.400 even though ultimately you won't be. But your brain now 0:11:02.520 --> 0:11:04.360 is almost like tricked into thinking you've got a bit 0:11:04.360 --> 0:11:05.719 more control over sounds than you really. 0:11:05.920 --> 0:11:06.560 Have you ever lost it? 0:11:06.559 --> 0:11:09.040 Because by the pool we went to a we had 0:11:09.240 --> 0:11:11.080 kids and we wanted to go somewhere where there are 0:11:11.080 --> 0:11:12.800 no kids, not because we don't like kids, but it 0:11:12.960 --> 0:11:15.160 just we wanted to get away young kids. And we're 0:11:15.160 --> 0:11:17.480 in Palm Springs at the swimming pool and there were 0:11:17.480 --> 0:11:19.120 a couple of kids and there was one like I said, 0:11:19.160 --> 0:11:21.960 that's eight, and he's in the pool, and he was going, Dad, 0:11:22.000 --> 0:11:24.280 look at me, Look me, Dad, look at me, Look 0:11:24.320 --> 0:11:26.080 at me, Look at me. By the fifth look at me, 0:11:26.760 --> 0:11:29.280 I'm now almost in a rage. No one else cares, 0:11:29.280 --> 0:11:32.079 it seems. By the fifteenth look at me is when 0:11:32.080 --> 0:11:36.199 I yelled out look at him because I couldn't control myself. 0:11:36.240 --> 0:11:39.360 Have you ever lost it where you just went went over? 0:11:39.760 --> 0:11:42.440 Not since I was a kid, in that way most 0:11:42.480 --> 0:11:44.199 of the time. Now, I would just remove myself from 0:11:44.240 --> 0:11:47.040 the situation or try and deal with it if I can. 0:11:47.920 --> 0:11:49.880 But also I've done a lot of work to try 0:11:49.920 --> 0:11:52.920 and not get to that point where it drives me 0:11:53.000 --> 0:11:56.319 that insane, and I can tolerate these sounds now. If 0:11:56.360 --> 0:12:00.760 I have to, I will. But that example, there's something 0:12:00.760 --> 0:12:03.559 else going on there, Like there's something about the meaning 0:12:03.600 --> 0:12:05.360 behind the sound as well, because that's a kid that's 0:12:05.400 --> 0:12:09.600 being ignored, and so it's not just the acoustics of it. 0:12:09.679 --> 0:12:12.320 There's actually like, oh, this this kid is trying to 0:12:12.320 --> 0:12:15.000 get someone's attention and they're not being listened to. So 0:12:15.040 --> 0:12:17.000 there's a sort of an emotional you didn't care about. 0:12:16.760 --> 0:12:21.079 That couldn't cure a lessons that it was stop trying 0:12:21.120 --> 0:12:26.079 to I hated it. I wanted to stop at please 0:12:26.160 --> 0:12:26.760 just stop it. 0:12:27.280 --> 0:12:29.080 So you know what's interesting, because I just thought of 0:12:29.120 --> 0:12:33.320 a sound that I do think drives just about anyone 0:12:33.679 --> 0:12:36.559 into a state of at least stress, of not distress, 0:12:36.960 --> 0:12:39.680 and yet I think the natural reason for the sound 0:12:39.840 --> 0:12:41.400 was not to do that, and that is the sound 0:12:41.480 --> 0:12:45.720 of a baby crying. You know, we like on a plane. 0:12:46.000 --> 0:12:48.079 We know why they're crying, their ears are stuff. They 0:12:48.080 --> 0:12:50.520 can't take the pressure, or they're uncomfortable. We get it, 0:12:50.520 --> 0:12:53.520 we're sympathetic, but the average person on a plane will 0:12:53.559 --> 0:12:57.400 get to the point of, you know, almost getting hostile 0:12:57.800 --> 0:13:03.160 if it's such a strange reaction to that kind of 0:13:03.160 --> 0:13:06.440 stund So I guess what I'm trying. I don't have this. 0:13:06.559 --> 0:13:06.800 I am. 0:13:07.000 --> 0:13:10.040 I am sympathetic to having the notion of sounds that 0:13:10.600 --> 0:13:12.040 create emotional response. 0:13:12.160 --> 0:13:14.480 Yes, and that's a really good example of like a 0:13:14.520 --> 0:13:18.280 really conflicting emotional experience because you are feeling compassion for 0:13:18.320 --> 0:13:21.000 this poor baby. But I think most people are probably 0:13:21.080 --> 0:13:23.480 getting angry at the parents. It's like the parents should 0:13:23.520 --> 0:13:25.800 be doing something to make this stop and make my 0:13:26.120 --> 0:13:30.079 experience more comfortable. And as Peter said, you can't escape that. 0:13:30.280 --> 0:13:31.880 And so for the same reason, if someone starts to 0:13:31.880 --> 0:13:33.840 get a little bit panicky on a plane, they're much 0:13:33.840 --> 0:13:35.920 more likely to have a full blown panic attack because 0:13:36.160 --> 0:13:38.240 there's nowhere to go. You can't get away from that. 0:13:38.360 --> 0:13:38.840 Yeah. 0:13:38.880 --> 0:13:42.440 So, because because everybody and before you came on you 0:13:42.480 --> 0:13:45.360 mentioned when wherever you go, when you start talking about this, 0:13:45.440 --> 0:13:48.040 there's always somebody who goes, wait a minute, sent me 0:13:48.520 --> 0:13:53.439 the Queen Queen Elizabeth ready for this would demand that 0:13:53.480 --> 0:13:54.840 she had you probably. 0:13:54.520 --> 0:13:56.320 Know this about the ice ice. 0:13:56.240 --> 0:13:59.880 That she had rounded ice cubes. She had me round 0:13:59.880 --> 0:14:02.240 it riding ice cubes because square ice cubes may clink 0:14:02.240 --> 0:14:03.840 and they make noise, and she could not take it. 0:14:04.559 --> 0:14:06.440 She only had rounded ice cubes. How about that, and 0:14:06.520 --> 0:14:10.480 rounded ice cubes don't make the different sound. Well, son 0:14:10.520 --> 0:14:12.720 of a good she have discovered that. 0:14:13.360 --> 0:14:22.800 Well, you're queen, and. 0:14:25.720 --> 0:14:28.480 There's there's also some people who react to the sound 0:14:28.520 --> 0:14:31.120 of hot water being poured, but not cold water because 0:14:31.120 --> 0:14:32.440 there's also a de slightly. 0:14:33.360 --> 0:14:34.320 I'm kidding, I'm kidding. 0:14:34.880 --> 0:14:38.040 Franz Kafka lined his this is this is such a 0:14:38.040 --> 0:14:41.000 great story if it's true, lined his bedroom walls with 0:14:41.200 --> 0:14:46.320 cork for sound, and then developed an allergy to cork, 0:14:46.480 --> 0:14:48.920 which I just love that you go to that trouble 0:14:48.920 --> 0:14:51.120 because you're out of your mind with the sounds and 0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:52.960 then you get sick from the cork. Yeah, oh j 0:14:53.680 --> 0:14:56.920 This thing is really affects a lot of people. Doctor 0:14:57.120 --> 0:14:57.480 is it? 0:14:57.520 --> 0:15:02.320 Is it only repetitive sounds or could it be as like, 0:15:02.440 --> 0:15:05.720 for instance, has anyone ever had this reaction to music 0:15:05.960 --> 0:15:10.040 other than just a certain note just music playing with that. 0:15:11.120 --> 0:15:14.480 Some people have it to certain types of music, so 0:15:14.560 --> 0:15:18.480 sometimes it's music that is repetitive, like a really heavy 0:15:18.520 --> 0:15:21.080 bass or something like that. But also quite a few 0:15:21.120 --> 0:15:23.560 people have said with jazz because it feels so unpredictable 0:15:23.560 --> 0:15:24.480 and it doesn't follow. 0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:30.160 Music With Peter at show tunes, I love you know 0:15:30.320 --> 0:15:33.360 minus and I'm embarrassed to say it. 0:15:34.200 --> 0:15:36.800 But if you're going to cruise and they decide to 0:15:36.800 --> 0:15:41.000 play every song you've ever loved on steel drum, I 0:15:41.040 --> 0:15:44.880 want to kill myself. I'm gonna kill myself. Sunshine of 0:15:44.880 --> 0:15:51.760 your love on a steel drum should be banned? Shouldn't be. 0:15:54.240 --> 0:15:57.040 Why? Why is that the only instrument on they can't 0:15:57.040 --> 0:15:57.320 buy it. 0:15:57.560 --> 0:15:59.600 I'll pitch in for a guitar, I'll pitch in for 0:15:59.640 --> 0:16:01.360 a flu but steel drum? 0:16:01.480 --> 0:16:06.520 Really yesterday? 0:16:06.640 --> 0:16:07.640 Are you doing it as any? 0:16:09.760 --> 0:16:11.200 So generally, when. 0:16:13.080 --> 0:16:16.720 Now that it is determined to be a condition, when 0:16:16.760 --> 0:16:18.800 do people find they get diagnosed? 0:16:18.960 --> 0:16:20.280 Right when you know. 0:16:20.440 --> 0:16:25.920 There's still no confirmed diagnostic criteria for it. We see 0:16:25.960 --> 0:16:28.760 patients in the NHS, in the National Health Service in England, 0:16:29.080 --> 0:16:33.080 and for us to consider something a disorder and inverted commas, 0:16:33.640 --> 0:16:36.960 it needs to cause significant distress and have some kind 0:16:37.000 --> 0:16:40.680 of ongoing impact or interference in late life. 0:16:40.960 --> 0:16:41.560 How dare you. 0:16:43.160 --> 0:16:47.040 And so does has it not qualified yet under that term? 0:16:47.240 --> 0:16:50.680 It's still very newly recognized. Like there was this paper 0:16:50.720 --> 0:16:53.520 that came out It was just last year, the Consensus Definition, 0:16:53.560 --> 0:16:57.040 which was a panel of experts who came together to say, 0:16:57.520 --> 0:17:00.120 this is how we define it based on what we 0:17:00.200 --> 0:17:03.360 know currently that there's been more research on this in 0:17:03.360 --> 0:17:06.679 the last two years than there ever was in total before. 0:17:06.920 --> 0:17:10.080 So we're still very much at the beginning of understanding this. 0:17:10.119 --> 0:17:12.560 So we don't know is it an audiological problem, is 0:17:12.560 --> 0:17:15.240 it a psychological problem, Is that a neurological problem. It 0:17:15.280 --> 0:17:17.439 could be a combination of all of those things. We 0:17:17.560 --> 0:17:20.040 just don't have the research to be able to categorize 0:17:20.040 --> 0:17:22.160 it and classify it in that way. 0:17:22.359 --> 0:17:25.160 How do am I understanding that this questionnaire is something 0:17:25.200 --> 0:17:28.600 that you helped to develop that helps to diagnose it. 0:17:28.680 --> 0:17:32.320 Basically that's mainly used a for research purposes. So we 0:17:32.359 --> 0:17:35.159 can look at the severity of the symptoms and we 0:17:35.200 --> 0:17:39.960 can use that to compare it to other items on 0:17:40.040 --> 0:17:41.840 other questionnaires, so we can see, well, how does it 0:17:41.840 --> 0:17:45.280 relate to depression symptoms? For example, or anxiety or something 0:17:45.320 --> 0:17:48.119 like that, or we can see how it changes over time, 0:17:48.840 --> 0:17:52.480 and we also use it in therapy to monitor change 0:17:52.680 --> 0:17:55.640 as a result of therapy. There is now a cutoff 0:17:55.640 --> 0:17:58.080 score for that to say over that cut off score, 0:17:58.160 --> 0:18:01.080 someone is likely to have misophonia. That that cutoff score 0:18:01.200 --> 0:18:05.000 is for what we'd call subclinical as well as clinical mesophonias. 0:18:05.040 --> 0:18:08.199 That's people who would have this extreme reaction and wouldn't 0:18:08.200 --> 0:18:10.320 be able to tolerate it for very long, but it 0:18:10.320 --> 0:18:14.000 doesn't necessarily cause that day to day impact. We don't 0:18:14.000 --> 0:18:16.439 have the research hasn't been done yet to find that 0:18:16.480 --> 0:18:21.639 cutoff score for a disorder level of miscephonia, So we 0:18:21.680 --> 0:18:25.360 don't know what the prevalence is where it's that extreme, 0:18:25.440 --> 0:18:27.000 but we know that there are a lot of people 0:18:27.000 --> 0:18:29.680 out there who are really really suffering. On a day today, bab, I. 0:18:29.640 --> 0:18:32.879 Often wonder when I see an act of violence, like 0:18:33.040 --> 0:18:35.480 a neighbor loses it and you hear about it that 0:18:35.520 --> 0:18:37.280 there was a bark in the dog drove the crazy, 0:18:37.920 --> 0:18:40.240 or someone would cut somebody off and hanked at them 0:18:40.240 --> 0:18:43.280 in traffic or did I always wonder if that's an 0:18:43.320 --> 0:18:46.280 outcropping of this because the person just couldn't take it anymore. 0:18:46.480 --> 0:18:48.639 Because you're living next door to a neighbor. We're in 0:18:48.800 --> 0:18:51.239 a different world as far as personal space. There are 0:18:51.280 --> 0:18:55.120 more people being loud with their car stereos, with their 0:18:55.680 --> 0:19:00.000 devices because we're carrying stuff than I've ever heard before. 0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:02.520 And the guys are walking on their phone going yeah, 0:19:02.560 --> 0:19:04.560 how the meeting is and I got to hear there's 0:19:04.600 --> 0:19:08.040 no and that kind of makes me crazy too. I'm 0:19:08.080 --> 0:19:12.240 wondering the most extreme cases have they been diagnosed ever 0:19:12.320 --> 0:19:14.919 with that that the reason they went off is because 0:19:14.920 --> 0:19:17.360 of the noise and because of the cadence and the rhythm. 0:19:17.440 --> 0:19:21.200 Or a mesaphonia defense. I'm serious. 0:19:21.480 --> 0:19:24.919 Someone There has been a few newspaper articles where it 0:19:24.920 --> 0:19:28.880 says or they had misophonia and they exploded. If someone's 0:19:29.920 --> 0:19:33.200 also like that, disregulated, that they can't control themselves and 0:19:33.200 --> 0:19:37.080 they're harming people, then that it's not just misophonia. There's 0:19:37.119 --> 0:19:41.000 something else going on there, and it wouldn't be helpful 0:19:41.040 --> 0:19:45.120 to make that direct connection because that then stops people 0:19:45.119 --> 0:19:48.119 from getting help. Bor mezophonia, because I think gets associated 0:19:48.160 --> 0:19:50.680 with violence and extreme behavior. 0:19:58.720 --> 0:20:01.960 The bigger issue to this is this doesn't feel like 0:20:02.000 --> 0:20:04.679 twenty percent of the public, this feels much bigger. And 0:20:04.760 --> 0:20:06.680 an article, a lot of articles I've read said most 0:20:06.720 --> 0:20:09.840