WEBVTT - Gordon Lightfoot on Dylan, Neil Young, and Stompin' Tom Connors 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:03.520 This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing. 0:00:22.760 --> 0:00:28.680 At times, I just don't know how you could feel 0:00:28.960 --> 0:00:33.680 anything but beautiful. Over the course of a career that 0:00:33.720 --> 0:00:37.960 has lasted more than fifty years, Canadian singer songwriter Gordon 0:00:38.080 --> 0:00:45.440 Lightfoot has achieved a global stardom and exceptional influence. Bob 0:00:45.479 --> 0:00:49.640 Dylan's a fan. About Lightfoot's songs, Dylan said, I can't 0:00:49.680 --> 0:00:53.680 think of any I don't like. These songs, which include Beautiful, 0:00:53.840 --> 0:00:56.560 The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald, If you could read 0:00:56.640 --> 0:00:59.960 My Mind and many others, have been treasured by generation 0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:04.640 is of popular musicians and listeners around the world. Many 0:01:04.720 --> 0:01:07.800 people know about the folk music revival that brought Bob 0:01:07.880 --> 0:01:10.959 Dylan to New York in the early nineteen sixties, but 0:01:11.120 --> 0:01:14.200 north of the border there was an equivalent explosion of 0:01:14.280 --> 0:01:17.400 talent at that time, and Lightfoot, who got his start 0:01:17.480 --> 0:01:21.720 singing in boys choirs, found himself heading to Canada's cultural 0:01:21.800 --> 0:01:25.920 capital to try his luck. Beautiful, Well, I was down 0:01:25.959 --> 0:01:28.040 in the in Toronto here looking for work, and I 0:01:28.360 --> 0:01:31.640 got a job as a coral performer and in a 0:01:31.720 --> 0:01:36.240 television series that was on every week, and at the 0:01:36.280 --> 0:01:40.360 same time I branched out and began working in the folk, 0:01:40.840 --> 0:01:44.840 uh oriented place, just because the the folk revival had 0:01:44.840 --> 0:01:49.120 occurred around about nineteen sixty and I would have been 0:01:49.200 --> 0:01:53.360 maybe twenty twenty years old there about one and uh 0:01:53.600 --> 0:01:56.040 so I'd be working on the TV show in the 0:01:56.120 --> 0:01:58.800 daytime and going and working at the coffee houses at night. 0:02:00.160 --> 0:02:03.360 You had a period we wrote jingles for commercials, correct 0:02:03.640 --> 0:02:07.040 I tried. They locked me in a room one time, 0:02:07.040 --> 0:02:10.360 a manager in a place on Madison Avenue and just 0:02:10.480 --> 0:02:13.720 left me there all afternoon. That well, I I wrote 0:02:13.760 --> 0:02:17.880 the commercial, but they didn't like it. They didn't play 0:02:17.919 --> 0:02:20.600 your version of the commercial. But you didn't, didn't You 0:02:20.639 --> 0:02:22.800 weren't in New York for a long time, correct Well, 0:02:22.840 --> 0:02:24.480 I would go back and forth in New York all 0:02:24.520 --> 0:02:27.720 the time. Before my management company was in New York. 0:02:28.120 --> 0:02:30.280 I was one of the fortunate ones who was able 0:02:30.320 --> 0:02:34.680 to acquire a management situation south of the border, so 0:02:34.760 --> 0:02:36.560 to speak, down in the States, and I was in 0:02:36.639 --> 0:02:42.000 New York and it was a great manager. He recognized 0:02:42.040 --> 0:02:45.800 my songwriting ability immediately, and uh I got a couple 0:02:45.840 --> 0:02:49.560 of tunes to recorded by Peter, Paul and Mary, and 0:02:49.600 --> 0:02:51.800 one of them went up to number five on the 0:02:52.200 --> 0:02:58.480 Board chart for for loving Me. That's what you get. 0:02:58.680 --> 0:03:10.960 Full of me, that's what you get. Everything head as 0:03:11.040 --> 0:03:19.520 you can see, that's what you give me. And so 0:03:19.680 --> 0:03:22.360 I was introduced to the industry in the States really 0:03:22.400 --> 0:03:25.400 as a songwriter before they even knew that I sang. 0:03:25.480 --> 0:03:29.920 You know, it was it sort of happened on its own. 0:03:30.040 --> 0:03:31.480 Do you think you would have been Do you think 0:03:31.520 --> 0:03:34.000 you would have been happy to just stay in that 0:03:34.040 --> 0:03:37.080 place and just produce records and and write music and 0:03:37.520 --> 0:03:39.680 was performing the goal all along? Did you want were 0:03:39.680 --> 0:03:41.880 you aching to do that? Oh? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I 0:03:41.920 --> 0:03:45.440 wanted to even as a child. You know, I didn't 0:03:45.440 --> 0:03:50.440 mind singing in my grandmother's house and the Sunday get together, 0:03:50.640 --> 0:03:52.400 you know that they would single me out and I 0:03:52.440 --> 0:03:57.880 would solo. I enjoyed the feel of the communication that 0:03:57.960 --> 0:04:02.240 I and I could fail it then, and uh, that's 0:04:02.240 --> 0:04:04.920 what I feel now ifel I feel a communication. I 0:04:05.800 --> 0:04:08.240 have a wonderful band and we have a great repertoire, 0:04:08.280 --> 0:04:12.200 and we just lay the stuff right out there for them, 0:04:12.200 --> 0:04:16.760 just pure joy. Yeah, joy doing that when when you 0:04:16.920 --> 0:04:20.200 were take care of off it pays the bills. That's 0:04:20.200 --> 0:04:24.440 a that's a desirable silver lining. There benefit all that 0:04:24.480 --> 0:04:28.120 hard work. Well, but when you were writing, when you 0:04:28.240 --> 0:04:32.320 turn that corner and singing takes over. You know, I 0:04:32.360 --> 0:04:34.720 was doing that, like like small time stuff. And all 0:04:34.760 --> 0:04:38.920 of a sudden I was asked to come to New 0:04:39.000 --> 0:04:45.280 York and open for Paul Butterfield concert sixty six thereabouts. 0:04:45.320 --> 0:04:49.800 I suppose you won the radio then recording. No, we 0:04:49.839 --> 0:04:52.680 didn't actually get on the radio until about seventy one. 0:04:52.920 --> 0:04:54.320 And what was the first song that? I mean? I 0:04:54.560 --> 0:04:56.000 have a list here, but what was it? If you 0:04:56.000 --> 0:04:57.520 could read my mind? If you could read my mind, 0:04:59.640 --> 0:05:05.159 you oh that goost is bea and I won't never 0:05:05.680 --> 0:05:10.240 be said free as long as I'm I'm a ghost, 0:05:10.920 --> 0:05:14.880 you can't see. The record was out. It was my 0:05:15.000 --> 0:05:19.200 first album on Warner Brothers, and uh it was out 0:05:19.279 --> 0:05:21.480 for eight months and there was no single, and all 0:05:21.480 --> 0:05:25.440 of a sudden, rather promotion guys said to his girlfriend, 0:05:26.160 --> 0:05:28.000 well listen to this and come back and give me 0:05:28.040 --> 0:05:32.520 an opinion. On Monday morning, his girlfriend, she likes, if 0:05:32.520 --> 0:05:36.360 you could read my mind, where the heart he's gone, 0:05:36.960 --> 0:05:45.520 the hero would be me. Hero often feel you won't 0:05:45.680 --> 0:05:53.039 read that book because they just do. If you could 0:05:53.040 --> 0:05:56.000 read my mind, hits the charts, so to speak, it 0:05:56.040 --> 0:05:59.080 becomes a big hit for you. What changes for you? 0:05:59.160 --> 0:06:02.000 Like did you just have to sit there and say, oh, 0:06:02.080 --> 0:06:04.599 I people are telling you to do things differently and 0:06:04.600 --> 0:06:06.320 now you're gonna be a success and they want you 0:06:06.360 --> 0:06:10.159 to we get so basically we got to hire an aircraft. Literally, 0:06:10.400 --> 0:06:12.920 that's what happened. We had to hire an aircraft. Everyone 0:06:12.920 --> 0:06:16.560 wants to book same give in the same place, two 0:06:16.560 --> 0:06:21.360 different places in one day. So and when you reach 0:06:21.480 --> 0:06:23.640 that point of the and then that turning point is 0:06:23.680 --> 0:06:25.800 the is the next imperative, You've gotta start coming up 0:06:25.800 --> 0:06:29.520 with more songs and writing more songs. Oh yeah, record yeah. 0:06:30.320 --> 0:06:33.720 We made three more albums and nothing happened, but we 0:06:33.880 --> 0:06:37.320 but I kept doing one a year and something had 0:06:37.360 --> 0:06:40.720 to give eventually, and then, uh, one summer I wrote 0:06:40.760 --> 0:06:44.159 that song Sundown, and I knew that it was it 0:06:44.200 --> 0:06:46.520 was going to happen, that it was it was the 0:06:46.600 --> 0:06:48.560 right thing, and it did. When we were up to 0:06:48.640 --> 0:06:51.560 number one. That was our second one. That it was 0:06:51.600 --> 0:06:54.160 almost seven two albums later that we had the wreck 0:06:54.200 --> 0:06:59.120 of the Avan Fitzgerald. And that happened all by itself too. 0:06:59.600 --> 0:07:05.719 That became a responsibility. It did very large responsibility, became 0:07:05.760 --> 0:07:09.279 a responsible Fitzgerald. But but tell me in your own words. 0:07:09.279 --> 0:07:11.960 Many people go on about that, about the tragedy and 0:07:12.000 --> 0:07:15.000 the history, and it's a very important song to people, 0:07:15.120 --> 0:07:18.760 you know, doing Canadian history. People talk about it very reverentially. 0:07:18.880 --> 0:07:23.720 Why was it important to you? Because it was only 0:07:23.760 --> 0:07:28.440 one verse, uh contained any conjecture of any kind, and 0:07:28.480 --> 0:07:31.920 the rest of it was taken from directly from newspaper 0:07:32.040 --> 0:07:35.679 articles and the aftermath, which only lasted for about three days. 0:07:36.080 --> 0:07:39.360 If I had not wrote that song, everybody would have 0:07:39.360 --> 0:07:46.320 forgotten about it a week after it happened. Uh, I said, 0:07:46.360 --> 0:07:49.200 people are all around the Great Lakes area are going 0:07:49.240 --> 0:07:53.000 to wonder if this song is appropriate, And some did 0:07:53.320 --> 0:07:56.440 wonder about it, whether it was appropriate for me to 0:07:56.520 --> 0:08:02.200 have written a song of that kind. But I had gone, uh, 0:08:02.240 --> 0:08:05.440 pretty much with the newspaper articles that I scraped up. 0:08:05.440 --> 0:08:08.520 We had no CPS in those days. And you went 0:08:08.920 --> 0:08:10.960 back that, you went to the publisher and got the 0:08:11.080 --> 0:08:16.720 back copies of the newspapers, and uh, so it's it's accurate. 0:08:17.000 --> 0:08:20.720 It's it's it's accurate in the way the story unfolds. 0:08:22.000 --> 0:08:23.920 I remember the night I wrote it. I was working 0:08:24.120 --> 0:08:27.040 in a deserted house, and there was there was a 0:08:27.040 --> 0:08:30.600 heck of a windstorm going on right in Toronto that night, 0:08:30.640 --> 0:08:34.319 and I remember myself wondering, g I wonder what it's 0:08:34.400 --> 0:08:36.360 like up on the on the Great Lakes right now, 0:08:36.400 --> 0:08:38.640 because I sailed up there myself. I had a couple 0:08:38.679 --> 0:08:43.000 of two different sailboats up there, and I wondered always, 0:08:43.000 --> 0:08:45.200 I wonder what the Great Lakes are like tonight, because 0:08:45.200 --> 0:08:48.440 you're always hearing, but what things happening up in the 0:08:48.480 --> 0:08:51.000 Great Lakes. And eleven o'clock in the evening, there was 0:08:51.040 --> 0:08:55.439 a report of a ship sinking three hours earlier in 0:08:55.559 --> 0:09:00.400 Lake Superior. And they're out looking for the people and 0:09:00.679 --> 0:09:05.520 they never found any of them, and uh, twenty nine 0:09:05.640 --> 0:09:08.079 people gone. And I had a melody and I had 0:09:08.120 --> 0:09:13.200 some chords that I was knocking around in this deserted 0:09:13.280 --> 0:09:18.559 house with the wind howling outside. My Really, it was 0:09:19.360 --> 0:09:22.319 kind of kind of a classic sitting to to write 0:09:22.320 --> 0:09:24.520 a song like that. So I began writing the song 0:09:25.320 --> 0:09:28.719 and finished writing like two or three weeks later. We 0:09:28.720 --> 0:09:31.640 were right in the middle of a recording a series 0:09:31.640 --> 0:09:34.200 of recording sessions at the times that we put it in, 0:09:34.280 --> 0:09:37.600 and it didn't work. The first day. We put it 0:09:37.600 --> 0:09:41.120 in the second day and uh, did you ever stomp 0:09:41.120 --> 0:09:45.160 and Tom Connors? No, I will. Now I'm gonna run 0:09:45.160 --> 0:09:48.400 down get all of stomping. Tom Connor. He was recording. 0:09:48.400 --> 0:09:51.360 He was one of our very famous Canadian folk artists. 0:09:52.080 --> 0:09:56.640 Stomping Tom Connor's poaches hit and so that sounds like 0:09:56.720 --> 0:10:00.920 a hit. He just heard the the elogy going like 0:10:01.000 --> 0:10:03.800 he didn't heard the lyrics or anything, so that the 0:10:03.840 --> 0:10:06.000 appeal of the song is definitely in the melody and 0:10:06.040 --> 0:10:09.600 the card changes, and then the story of the actual 0:10:09.679 --> 0:10:12.960 event itself. I got as accurately as I could by 0:10:13.000 --> 0:10:19.320 pursuing old news articles. The wind and the wires made 0:10:19.320 --> 0:10:23.880 the tattle tale sound in the wave roble. The really 0:10:27.520 --> 0:10:31.440 every man who asked the captain did was the witch 0:10:31.440 --> 0:10:38.880 should love? And stealing the dunk came late in the 0:10:38.960 --> 0:10:42.640 breakfast had to wait when the girls in November came 0:10:42.720 --> 0:10:48.600 slashing afternoon came at the squeeze and rain in the 0:10:48.640 --> 0:10:57.559 pace of herdricay in west wind? What was recording and 0:10:57.640 --> 0:11:00.200 performing music like back then? Did it seems im blur 0:11:00.280 --> 0:11:02.640 to you? Is it? Is it? What was it like 0:11:02.800 --> 0:11:05.920 for you to be you and do what you do 0:11:06.400 --> 0:11:08.600 in the early days as compared to later on into 0:11:08.640 --> 0:11:12.240 now for that matter. The first time I started doing it, 0:11:12.440 --> 0:11:17.160 I felt like not confident in what I was doing, 0:11:17.600 --> 0:11:20.960 what I was hearing, I didn't I didn't like what 0:11:21.080 --> 0:11:24.240 I was hearing of your own stuff. Yeah, I like 0:11:24.520 --> 0:11:27.679 the sound of the sound of my voice bothered me. 0:11:27.720 --> 0:11:30.880 And you know, I I started working on that stuff 0:11:30.880 --> 0:11:33.040 and I and I have been working on it ever since, 0:11:34.040 --> 0:11:36.960 on my vocal and I have worked on my my 0:11:37.000 --> 0:11:40.600 antonation on my instruments. Someone told me that that when 0:11:40.640 --> 0:11:43.160 you land, because you perform in so many different areas, 0:11:43.440 --> 0:11:47.280 you really dwell on tuning your instruments a lot. Correct. Yeah, 0:11:47.400 --> 0:11:50.480 sometimes I changed it around too. But but but I've 0:11:50.559 --> 0:11:53.680 learned through the years that there is a method that 0:11:54.760 --> 0:11:57.800 you can get me into into Scarborough fair Country, you know, 0:11:57.920 --> 0:12:00.240 like the like the sound that Simon and Garth Uncle 0:12:00.400 --> 0:12:05.960 used to get on there acoustic orchestral ranges that they 0:12:06.000 --> 0:12:11.200 put together for their songs. And uh actually only came 0:12:12.440 --> 0:12:14.760 it came real for me maybe six or seven years 0:12:14.760 --> 0:12:18.640 ago after I was recovering from a mini stroke that 0:12:18.679 --> 0:12:20.560 I had and I had to practice a lot more 0:12:20.600 --> 0:12:23.640 all of a sudden, So it really got me zero 0:12:23.880 --> 0:12:26.680 in on it, and it it all comes down to 0:12:26.760 --> 0:12:29.880 the fifth and the octaves. You know, just leave it 0:12:29.920 --> 0:12:32.880 at that. I'm just a handmaiden here for all you 0:12:32.960 --> 0:12:36.520 guitar people out there. That's Gordon Lightfoot's gift to you 0:12:36.640 --> 0:12:39.720 and his present to you. That's the fifth and the octaves. 0:12:39.760 --> 0:12:43.040 And I don't have one day fifth and the I 0:12:43.240 --> 0:12:45.280 don't know what the hell he's talking about, but there 0:12:45.320 --> 0:12:50.000 it is. There's his message to you today. McCartney told 0:12:50.000 --> 0:12:52.160 me when I spoke to him once, Paul told me 0:12:52.720 --> 0:12:54.920 that he said in the beginning they would go into 0:12:55.520 --> 0:12:58.960 a recording studio of the Beatles, and he said, you know, 0:12:58.960 --> 0:13:01.360 it was really these weren't his words, but the message 0:13:01.400 --> 0:13:03.760 was kind of like time is money. So these guys 0:13:03.840 --> 0:13:05.600 were luck. You know, we want two songs in the morning, 0:13:06.320 --> 0:13:07.640 and then you go have a lunch break and go 0:13:07.720 --> 0:13:09.240 down to the pub and you have a cigarette, you 0:13:09.280 --> 0:13:10.960 have a pufficient chips or where you come back. They 0:13:10.960 --> 0:13:13.360 want two songs. And after they really moved along at 0:13:13.360 --> 0:13:16.840 a clip when they were doing the first albums for 0:13:17.280 --> 0:13:19.840 Parlophone or whoever it was, or E. M. I. And 0:13:19.880 --> 0:13:22.439 then when they became you know, the success they obviously became. 0:13:22.559 --> 0:13:24.439 Then they would take a year, you know, all musicians, 0:13:24.440 --> 0:13:26.240 and then they would take a year to do their 0:13:26.240 --> 0:13:28.800 next album. You know, they would do Sergeant Pepper's or 0:13:28.800 --> 0:13:32.640 whatever one really really luxuriate and getting every name, and 0:13:32.880 --> 0:13:35.520 they gave them more time because it was worth. It 0:13:35.640 --> 0:13:38.080 was worth that investment for them. Was the same true 0:13:38.120 --> 0:13:40.400 with you. Do you find that the more successful you became, 0:13:40.440 --> 0:13:43.560 the more time you wanted to make music. Perhaps later on, 0:13:43.679 --> 0:13:47.080 but I I pretty much stuck to the to the 0:13:47.160 --> 0:13:49.800 schedule as much as I could. We made like eight 0:13:49.880 --> 0:13:54.680 or nine albums and ten years there, so you didn't 0:13:54.679 --> 0:13:58.199 feel rushed by them. No, we were getting more time. 0:13:58.800 --> 0:14:01.800 But but I was also also improving because what I 0:14:01.840 --> 0:14:04.520 didn't like hearing I was I was changing all the time. 0:14:05.160 --> 0:14:09.600 It was always an improvement venture like a guy building 0:14:09.679 --> 0:14:12.880 himself up and for playing an important sports team. You 0:14:12.960 --> 0:14:15.720 know they got it. This just not just the game, 0:14:15.800 --> 0:14:20.200 it's the preparation. Say you haven't played for for a 0:14:20.320 --> 0:14:22.440 month and all of a sudden you've got to get 0:14:22.480 --> 0:14:24.200 back up on stage. You should be able to crank 0:14:24.200 --> 0:14:26.320 it or just like it was just you did the 0:14:26.360 --> 0:14:31.200 show last night, but you liked rehearsing. Yeah, well you 0:14:31.240 --> 0:14:34.080 believe in rehearsing. Are you're learning new material or you're 0:14:34.120 --> 0:14:37.520 going back into the the old catalog, which we do 0:14:37.640 --> 0:14:41.160 because I have a rotational situation going on. The biggest 0:14:41.520 --> 0:14:44.640 problem my whole life been too many tunes, too many 0:14:44.680 --> 0:14:48.400 women for my listeners. Right now, Gordon Lightfoot is turning 0:14:48.720 --> 0:14:52.560 sheepishly towards his wife with a sheepish quin on his face, 0:14:52.600 --> 0:14:55.960 and she just patted his shoulder to say, it's okay, Gordon, Well, 0:14:56.000 --> 0:14:58.200 I can't step on your toes. You know you can't 0:14:58.200 --> 0:15:00.560 do that. But but I remember reading I remember listening 0:15:00.600 --> 0:15:02.960 to an article. I remember reading an article that the 0:15:03.080 --> 0:15:06.240 Rolling Stones did years ago, and I was taken by 0:15:06.280 --> 0:15:09.800 how you know, in terms of musicianship, Jagger and Keith 0:15:09.800 --> 0:15:12.640 for two, were very, very married to rehearsal. And for 0:15:12.680 --> 0:15:14.280 you to say that that as a great meaning to me. 0:15:14.360 --> 0:15:16.280 For you, someone who as great an artist as you are, 0:15:16.320 --> 0:15:20.760 that the preparation and the preparation aforehand so that when 0:15:20.800 --> 0:15:23.440 you when the audience is there, bloom, you strum that 0:15:23.520 --> 0:15:27.920 guitar and you're you're ready. You're ready, yeah, and we 0:15:27.200 --> 0:15:33.400 we have the the artistra itself. I have four really 0:15:33.480 --> 0:15:36.480 challenged guys and very loyal people. I read about that 0:15:36.520 --> 0:15:39.680 your band is very loyal to you. Well, I mean 0:15:39.720 --> 0:15:43.680 it's that there's no reason why they should not be. 0:15:44.880 --> 0:15:47.440 You know, we're all we're all the same path. I mean, 0:15:47.560 --> 0:15:50.120 we we just want to do a great job and 0:15:51.880 --> 0:15:55.120 you gotta make it almost make a science out of it. 0:15:55.160 --> 0:15:58.760 I don't know. My guys are all professionals. I mean 0:15:58.800 --> 0:16:03.880 they're they're serious musicians. Yeah, yeah, and they do other things. 0:16:03.920 --> 0:16:07.840 I just got to let them know what's coming up. 0:16:07.920 --> 0:16:10.600 You know, what were you listening to back then in 0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:12.840 the sixties when you were coming up? Who did you 0:16:12.880 --> 0:16:16.360 listen to? Well, I was as the country music, you know, 0:16:16.480 --> 0:16:19.320 hack Snow and then folks. It was Pete Seeger, and 0:16:19.320 --> 0:16:23.320 it was Bob Gibson. It was Bob Dylan, and and 0:16:23.640 --> 0:16:27.000 Simon and Garfuncle and you know Peter Paulamary and and 0:16:27.120 --> 0:16:30.640 Ian and Sylvia. They were a duet and they were 0:16:31.120 --> 0:16:36.040 it was a beautiful act that they had. Eventually you 0:16:36.080 --> 0:16:38.640 met these people, well, I met when you became one 0:16:38.640 --> 0:16:41.320 of them my management company, because they were the first 0:16:41.360 --> 0:16:45.360 ever to do one do any of my songs. It 0:16:45.440 --> 0:16:49.680 was Ian and Syphia which one for Loving Me and 0:16:49.920 --> 0:16:55.520 Early Morning Rain. I found an opening with the Folk Revival, 0:16:55.640 --> 0:16:58.040 you know, so I was lucky to be a part 0:16:58.080 --> 0:17:02.520 of that, to write that one through and survive. Uh, 0:17:02.720 --> 0:17:06.919 there's there's nothing much out there these days. You know, 0:17:06.960 --> 0:17:10.359 they're they're they're busking. We We've got to a whole 0:17:10.440 --> 0:17:14.520 bunch of people here in Toronto who are horvering around 0:17:14.560 --> 0:17:18.040 all the time, that the folk oriented artists who are 0:17:18.119 --> 0:17:23.399 songwriters and you know, trying to get somewhere, and some 0:17:23.480 --> 0:17:27.639 of some of them are succeeding in summer or not. 0:17:27.760 --> 0:17:29.520 I get to hear a lot of the stuff because 0:17:30.080 --> 0:17:34.040 it comes across my desk and I get to hear it, 0:17:35.200 --> 0:17:39.879 and you wish, you know that something grant could happen 0:17:40.000 --> 0:17:41.760 for these people, but you don't know what to do. 0:17:42.240 --> 0:17:47.920 Alegandrews respond, encourage. Yeah, where do you think people learn 0:17:48.040 --> 0:17:51.000 to hone their craft as a musician in in in 0:17:51.080 --> 0:17:54.640 clubs and performing live? Well, I was as well as 0:17:54.920 --> 0:17:57.800 I was working in bars too, you know, like bars 0:17:57.840 --> 0:18:02.400 and lounges as well as the coffee houses. And so 0:18:02.520 --> 0:18:07.760 I had a the kind of a repertoire that was 0:18:07.840 --> 0:18:11.120 acceptable to play a bar. So I got him following 0:18:11.160 --> 0:18:15.080 in a couple of these bars. Then then I've started 0:18:15.200 --> 0:18:20.200 moved uptown into the the village area of Yorkville, which 0:18:20.320 --> 0:18:24.600 was just coming into bloom here in town, and get 0:18:24.600 --> 0:18:27.080 into places like like the Purple Onion, and then the 0:18:27.200 --> 0:18:30.880 river Boat, which was really the plumb of the whole lot, 0:18:31.000 --> 0:18:35.960 was the Riverboat. Because Bernie Feeder brought every person into 0:18:35.960 --> 0:18:40.040 that place. You could fastly imagine played there James Taylor 0:18:40.080 --> 0:18:44.000 to Joni Mitchell, to to Neil Young, right on down 0:18:44.040 --> 0:18:46.960 the line, is he is he a friend of yours? Yes? 0:18:47.040 --> 0:18:52.840 He is? Yeah, your songs and you're singing of your song, 0:18:52.920 --> 0:18:56.000 you're performing of your songs is so vulnerable and so emotional. 0:18:56.200 --> 0:18:58.280 What was the most difficult song for you to write 0:18:58.359 --> 0:19:01.440 or among the most difficult songs for you? Right, I'll 0:19:01.440 --> 0:19:04.159 tell you that a lot of times you don't know 0:19:04.160 --> 0:19:08.360 what you're doing it. You've you you're drawing the material 0:19:08.480 --> 0:19:12.879 from your subconscious You don't you don't actually know what 0:19:12.920 --> 0:19:16.240 you're doing. You're you know, you're drawing it from somewhere. 0:19:16.280 --> 0:19:19.680 And then later down the line, three or four weeks later, 0:19:19.720 --> 0:19:24.639 you're gonna sign it back to uh, the actual event 0:19:24.760 --> 0:19:29.760 that brought it on. I mean, that's like if you 0:19:29.800 --> 0:19:33.600 could read my mind, just it's about actually the the 0:19:33.680 --> 0:19:36.520 crumbling of a relation with that painful for you to 0:19:36.520 --> 0:19:39.120 write No, because I didn't know what I was doing 0:19:39.119 --> 0:19:42.280 when I wrote it. It It just I didn't tell me 0:19:42.359 --> 0:19:44.840 that all these beautiful folks songs that people weep when 0:19:44.840 --> 0:19:47.359 they listen to, you're just like tossing it off, like 0:19:47.400 --> 0:19:49.760 I don't really know what this is. Let's take a 0:19:49.800 --> 0:19:51.680 song for example. Let me let me pick one song 0:19:52.000 --> 0:19:53.719 and one of my favorite songs of yours. I mean 0:19:53.720 --> 0:19:57.480 a song that I just kills me is beautiful described 0:19:57.520 --> 0:20:00.280 to me recording the song beautiful, I mean you go 0:20:00.320 --> 0:20:02.639 out with your friends and you get ship faced drunk, 0:20:02.640 --> 0:20:04.120 and you come in with a hangover and just lay 0:20:04.160 --> 0:20:06.520 this thing down and you play poker roll night. Or 0:20:06.560 --> 0:20:12.480 do you enter a state? First? I get a card progression, 0:20:14.280 --> 0:20:18.159 Then I get a melody. It's fifth syn octaves, people, 0:20:18.560 --> 0:20:22.359 it's fifth se octaves. Then I get the lyric. You 0:20:22.440 --> 0:20:24.879 got the melody, you got the cards, but you don't know, 0:20:25.040 --> 0:20:29.199 so you draw. You find an idea that that that 0:20:29.359 --> 0:20:33.320 fits the fits the melody. That's Gordon Lightfoot, this songwriter, 0:20:33.760 --> 0:20:38.080 Gordon Lightfoot, the singer the performer. Do you enter a state, 0:20:39.240 --> 0:20:41.560 do you take yourself to a place when you perform 0:20:42.000 --> 0:20:47.439 your recorded music or you don't, Well, I can, I 0:20:47.480 --> 0:20:51.960 can use my imagination. I actually saw it as a 0:20:52.240 --> 0:20:56.439 sincere love turned to a guy for his wife or 0:20:56.480 --> 0:21:01.199 his his girlfriend. It reminds me when when I was 0:21:01.680 --> 0:21:04.520 I learned how to sing with the emotion. When I 0:21:04.560 --> 0:21:08.720 was about twelve, when I was doing handling material from 0:21:08.960 --> 0:21:13.800 Handles Messiah over the voice of Him who Criss and 0:21:13.880 --> 0:21:17.119 the Wilderness and all that sort of thing, and I 0:21:17.600 --> 0:21:23.760 learned what emotion meant when when I were saying handle 0:21:23.960 --> 0:21:30.639 Handles Messiah. At age twelve, I sent a competition, uh 0:21:31.000 --> 0:21:32.879 so so I could apply. It was easier for me 0:21:32.920 --> 0:21:39.320 to apply to summon up that emotional uh something or 0:21:39.320 --> 0:21:41.399 whatever it is when it came time to put that 0:21:41.480 --> 0:21:44.560 song down. But I didn't have it to the point 0:21:45.000 --> 0:21:47.040 at the beginning that I wanted to have it. And 0:21:47.080 --> 0:21:49.800 that's how I've been working on all my life, is 0:21:50.240 --> 0:21:56.280 getting controlling that emotional approach to it and making it 0:21:56.600 --> 0:21:59.080 work for me. You don't want to overdo it, you know, 0:21:59.119 --> 0:22:01.639 you don't to get do you know? I think that's 0:22:01.680 --> 0:22:04.000 what's beautiful about your music is you go right up 0:22:04.040 --> 0:22:06.280 to a point, but you don't do a lot of handholding. 0:22:06.280 --> 0:22:08.200 You let the audience do the crying for you. You 0:22:08.240 --> 0:22:11.560 know what I mean, you're your We we balance it 0:22:11.600 --> 0:22:18.560 off with a lot of toe chappers. For a prime 0:22:18.600 --> 0:22:22.320 example of the delivery Gordon Lightfoot does so well. You 0:22:22.359 --> 0:22:27.560 don't have to look beyond this song sundown. I can 0:22:27.600 --> 0:22:34.080 see you back in setting this where you do what 0:22:34.200 --> 0:22:47.879 you don't confess you better ticket coming up. Lightfoot talks 0:22:47.920 --> 0:22:51.520 about some of his musical inspirations. It explains why he 0:22:51.600 --> 0:22:55.919 and Bob Dylan didn't get along right away. Explore the 0:22:56.000 --> 0:22:59.199 Here's the Thing archives. I talk with a very different 0:22:59.280 --> 0:23:02.240 kind of song writer, Tom York from the British rock 0:23:02.280 --> 0:23:05.520 band Radiohead. He tells me how his producer gave him 0:23:05.520 --> 0:23:10.280 the confidence to explore wild new electronics sounds. I mean, 0:23:10.320 --> 0:23:13.359 I was like, um, a kid being given a hammer. 0:23:13.359 --> 0:23:15.120 I was just hamming rely on stuff. I didn't really 0:23:15.119 --> 0:23:16.600 know what I was doing, but he was kind of 0:23:16.640 --> 0:23:19.120 fascinated about that, you know, and he'd come and literally 0:23:19.200 --> 0:23:23.840 tidy up the mess. Take a listen at Here's the 0:23:23.920 --> 0:23:36.360 Thing dot Org. I'm telling you that you beautiful. This 0:23:36.440 --> 0:23:39.160 is Alec Baldwin and you were listening to Here's the thing. 0:23:39.760 --> 0:23:42.520 Gordon Lightfoot has straddled the worlds of pop and folk 0:23:42.640 --> 0:23:47.159 music for decades, but his confessional songwriting appealed to country 0:23:47.280 --> 0:23:50.760 music performers like Johnny Cash, Hank Williams Jr. And Glenn 0:23:50.800 --> 0:23:54.120 Campbell as well. They all covered his songs. And there's 0:23:54.160 --> 0:23:57.199 good reason that's what Lightfoot was listening to when he 0:23:57.240 --> 0:23:59.800 started thinking about what kind of musician he wanted to be. 0:24:01.359 --> 0:24:05.679 It was probably a country music I made the crossover 0:24:05.760 --> 0:24:12.200 into adult contemporary music, you know, fairly soon. And there 0:24:12.280 --> 0:24:13.919 was a lot of good writing going on in the 0:24:13.960 --> 0:24:17.520 folk revival too, and I got I was influenced by that. 0:24:18.720 --> 0:24:20.480 So you didn't come into the music business and say 0:24:20.560 --> 0:24:22.960 I want to be Sinatra, I want to be Elvis, 0:24:23.080 --> 0:24:27.440 I want to be Dylan. Think you want to find 0:24:27.440 --> 0:24:31.520 your own voice. Yeah I didn't. I certainly did not 0:24:33.280 --> 0:24:36.719 take light of the fact that I was really influenced 0:24:36.720 --> 0:24:41.400 by Bob Dylan because of the not only the quality 0:24:41.440 --> 0:24:44.280 of the work, but the the output that they achieved. 0:24:45.200 --> 0:24:49.840 He was prolific. Yeah, that was the amazing part. But 0:24:50.080 --> 0:24:52.720 and it said, oh, it can be that easy for him, 0:24:52.720 --> 0:24:56.040 I must surely be be easier for me. I mean, 0:24:56.080 --> 0:24:59.400 if he can do this much work, surely I can 0:24:59.720 --> 0:25:02.679 can do this much work. Will appreciating the music that 0:25:02.760 --> 0:25:04.960 he was producing at the time. When did you first 0:25:04.960 --> 0:25:13.960 meet him? Uh, nineteen? Was that like in Woodstock? Well, 0:25:14.320 --> 0:25:19.119 it was a it was an interesting time. I we 0:25:19.240 --> 0:25:23.879