WEBVTT - Steven Curtis Chapman: Learning To Hobble Well 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:02.520 Hey, I'm Stephen Curtis Chapman. I just would take my 0:00:02.600 --> 0:00:04.880 daughter back if I had the option. You hobble with 0:00:04.960 --> 0:00:08.119 that reality. You experience God in it, you experience healing 0:00:08.119 --> 0:00:09.959 in it, and it's the already, it's that. Not yet, 0:00:10.000 --> 0:00:12.920 you're still waiting for the ultimate wiping of every tear 0:00:12.960 --> 0:00:13.640 from your eyes. 0:00:13.880 --> 0:00:15.160 And this is the upload. 0:00:17.960 --> 0:00:20.640 We're very grateful that you're joining us on the upload today. 0:00:21.360 --> 0:00:24.159 Stephen Curtis Chapman is here, and I just want to 0:00:24.160 --> 0:00:26.200 open by saying, you know you've written, you've sung about 0:00:26.239 --> 0:00:29.600 faith for decades. You strip it all down, beyond music, 0:00:29.680 --> 0:00:32.599 beyond all of the awards, beyond all of that. What 0:00:32.640 --> 0:00:34.640 does the word faith mean to you today? 0:00:34.960 --> 0:00:35.280 Wow? 0:00:35.600 --> 0:00:42.440 Good question. I mean the word faith first first word 0:00:42.440 --> 0:00:44.519 that comes to mind. I guess if it's if this 0:00:44.600 --> 0:00:51.839 is a word association game or quiz is survival? You know? 0:00:52.200 --> 0:00:53.199 I mean faith is. 0:00:55.160 --> 0:00:59.880 The only way that I know we survive. You know, 0:01:00.320 --> 0:01:04.240 this world, fallen world that we are in. Jesus says, 0:01:04.280 --> 0:01:07.160 in this world you will have trouble, you know, and 0:01:07.360 --> 0:01:10.480 all of us know that at our own different you know, 0:01:10.600 --> 0:01:13.919 different degrees and different levels of of that. The longer 0:01:13.959 --> 0:01:18.040 we live the deeper uh, into that you know, troubled 0:01:18.240 --> 0:01:22.760 world we find ourselves, and the deeper the trouble seems 0:01:22.760 --> 0:01:27.319 to get. And yet surviving that, you know is I 0:01:27.360 --> 0:01:31.000 don't know any other way, certainly from my own experience 0:01:31.040 --> 0:01:34.000 and my families and things that we've walked through, apart 0:01:34.120 --> 0:01:38.759 from faith in uh, you know, in in a God 0:01:38.840 --> 0:01:42.160 who we have experienced to be with us in those 0:01:42.200 --> 0:01:47.520 places and sustain us, you know, through that. So that's 0:01:47.680 --> 0:01:49.960 that's the first word that pops into my mind when 0:01:49.960 --> 0:01:51.000 you when you ask that. 0:01:51.000 --> 0:01:51.520 Question, man. 0:01:51.600 --> 0:01:54.400 And faith is such a cool and like loaded word too, 0:01:54.520 --> 0:01:57.520 because it just the word can and the meaning can 0:01:57.640 --> 0:02:00.160 change in so many different aspects of your life. If 0:02:00.200 --> 0:02:02.880 whatever season you're going through, the trials that you're going through, 0:02:03.600 --> 0:02:06.680 faith really is a survival tool, or it would be 0:02:06.880 --> 0:02:10.440 whipped for you helping someone else survive something else. It's yeah, 0:02:10.520 --> 0:02:11.359 it's amazing. 0:02:11.600 --> 0:02:14.160 It's kind of I'm in the middle of a tour 0:02:14.240 --> 0:02:17.560 right now, kind of re visiting an album that I 0:02:17.600 --> 0:02:21.040 did twenty five years ago, well twenty six ish, you're 0:02:21.200 --> 0:02:23.799 un yeah, but it was counting twenty five, twenty six 0:02:23.840 --> 0:02:27.000 whatever it takes, called Speechless, and the whole theme of 0:02:27.040 --> 0:02:30.480 that of that album, you know, and it's just been 0:02:30.560 --> 0:02:32.560 so cool to get to revisit it because it was, 0:02:33.080 --> 0:02:35.919 you know, I was twenty five years younger, and I 0:02:35.960 --> 0:02:38.200 was at a place in life where, you know, a 0:02:38.200 --> 0:02:41.359 lot of things had good, bad, ugly, you know, all 0:02:41.440 --> 0:02:44.880 that had happened. But to even get to revisit those 0:02:44.880 --> 0:02:47.000 songs and the truths of some of the songs that 0:02:47.080 --> 0:02:49.560 I wrote and recorded on that album, Be Still and 0:02:49.639 --> 0:02:51.320 Know that I Am God, you know, so I'm forty 0:02:51.360 --> 0:02:53.440 six ten. That was a song that was on that album. 0:02:53.600 --> 0:02:57.240 Just the whole concept of being you know, speechless. You know, 0:02:57.280 --> 0:03:01.000 it's kind of written around this phrase that my pastor 0:03:01.000 --> 0:03:04.080 and I were talking about. He used the words gospel astonishment, 0:03:04.160 --> 0:03:07.520 being so astonished at the message of the Gospel that 0:03:07.560 --> 0:03:10.680 we are stunned, even guys like us who love words, 0:03:10.680 --> 0:03:14.720 because he, my pastor, Scottie Smith and dear friend, is 0:03:14.760 --> 0:03:16.800 the only guy I know who loves to use words 0:03:16.800 --> 0:03:20.240 more than me. He makes up words actually in his sermons. 0:03:20.240 --> 0:03:22.720 Half the time I go look it up, like, wait, man, 0:03:22.919 --> 0:03:26.280 that's not gospelicious. That's one of his favorite words he 0:03:26.360 --> 0:03:29.320 throws out all the time. That's gospelicious. You know that's 0:03:29.480 --> 0:03:31.120 you know, it's that those kind of things that he 0:03:31.200 --> 0:03:34.359 throws around, and but He's like, you know this, if 0:03:34.400 --> 0:03:37.200 we really, you know, get a just a glimpse of 0:03:37.240 --> 0:03:40.360 the goodness of you know, and the enormity of the 0:03:40.440 --> 0:03:42.600 love and the grace of God for us, it would 0:03:43.040 --> 0:03:45.320 it would you know, render even guys like us who 0:03:45.400 --> 0:03:47.960 use so many words, you know, speechless, we don't have 0:03:48.000 --> 0:03:50.880 words for it. And and so I think, you know, 0:03:51.040 --> 0:03:54.360 just even getting to revisit all of that has just 0:03:54.560 --> 0:03:58.800 even deepened again my understanding of faith and looking back 0:03:58.840 --> 0:04:01.840 at the journey and getting to sing those songs and 0:04:02.000 --> 0:04:04.880 just kind of be stunned all over again at the 0:04:05.280 --> 0:04:09.240 goodness of you know, of God is faithfulness and the 0:04:09.280 --> 0:04:11.880 pain on the journey, and yet how He has sustained 0:04:12.560 --> 0:04:14.880 my family and me on our journey. 0:04:15.000 --> 0:04:18.400 Yeah. Well, I'm curious, looking back over your life, maybe 0:04:18.400 --> 0:04:21.320 share a moment where you first felt like faith was 0:04:21.400 --> 0:04:23.800 real to you, not something that you were taught or 0:04:23.839 --> 0:04:25.840 something that you learned, where you just you just kind 0:04:25.839 --> 0:04:27.479 of grabbed a hold of it and you're like, yeah, 0:04:27.520 --> 0:04:27.960 this is it. 0:04:28.160 --> 0:04:28.480 Yeah. 0:04:28.560 --> 0:04:32.160 Yeah, Well, I mean the first memory of that first 0:04:32.160 --> 0:04:34.040 thing that comes to mind when you ask that question, 0:04:34.120 --> 0:04:38.200 is I had seen a transformation to my family as 0:04:38.240 --> 0:04:41.719 a result of faith in Jesus and my parents who'd 0:04:41.760 --> 0:04:44.960 grown up around church and actually dragged a church every 0:04:45.000 --> 0:04:46.599 Sunday because that's what you do in the buckle of 0:04:46.600 --> 0:04:50.080 the Bible belt where they grew up in Kentucky and so, 0:04:50.440 --> 0:04:52.040 but but it kind of moved away from it a 0:04:52.040 --> 0:04:54.680 little bit, you know, in their teenage years, especially my 0:04:54.760 --> 0:04:59.120 dad and so I grew up in a home that 0:04:59.200 --> 0:05:02.080 was a little crazy, you know, my dad and mam 0:05:02.440 --> 0:05:05.560 was sixteen when she married my dad. Dad had an 0:05:05.560 --> 0:05:08.200 alcoholic father who was never He left home when my 0:05:08.279 --> 0:05:10.359 dad was a baby, and so he never knew his father, 0:05:10.480 --> 0:05:12.320 and so he grew up without a dad in his 0:05:12.360 --> 0:05:17.920 life or really any father figure. So that resulted in 0:05:18.120 --> 0:05:20.640 you know, just you know kind of what it would. 0:05:20.680 --> 0:05:22.520 You know, he's a great still a great man and 0:05:22.640 --> 0:05:25.640 new truth and knew and would say I still felt 0:05:25.680 --> 0:05:28.160 like I knew, knew the Lord and wanted his presents 0:05:28.160 --> 0:05:30.279 in my life, but I was just wandering. And so 0:05:30.320 --> 0:05:33.480 he married my mom. My brother came along very shortly 0:05:33.520 --> 0:05:35.760 after they got married, and she was still I think 0:05:35.880 --> 0:05:38.240 seventeen when he was born, and so they was young 0:05:38.320 --> 0:05:40.320 and it was a little crazy, and I grew up 0:05:40.480 --> 0:05:42.600 in a lot of conflict and a lot of fights, 0:05:42.640 --> 0:05:44.359 and there was just a lot of shame on my 0:05:44.440 --> 0:05:47.440 dad and a lot of you know, just confusion. And 0:05:48.360 --> 0:05:51.800 when I was about seven years old, my parents both 0:05:51.839 --> 0:05:54.080 as a result of a there's a revival going on 0:05:54.080 --> 0:05:56.960 in our little Baptist church there in Paduka, Kentucky, where 0:05:57.000 --> 0:05:59.720 I grew up, all of that Baptist church. And as 0:05:59.760 --> 0:06:02.200 God would orchestrate it, my mom, who had been going 0:06:02.240 --> 0:06:05.280 to church every Sunday because that's what you do, dragging 0:06:05.279 --> 0:06:07.320 me and my brother to church, she got my dad 0:06:07.360 --> 0:06:10.280 to go for that revival and by the end of 0:06:10.279 --> 0:06:13.440 that week, I just I saw transformation in my own home. 0:06:14.480 --> 0:06:17.760 And it was very real, even to my seven year 0:06:17.760 --> 0:06:21.200 old little self, because I just saw, you know, when 0:06:21.240 --> 0:06:23.880 the fights would start to blow up, or when you'd 0:06:23.880 --> 0:06:27.240 feel the attention and the conflict and you'd kind of, 0:06:27.320 --> 0:06:29.080 you know, I'd start to get afraid. 0:06:29.800 --> 0:06:30.600 My dad would. 0:06:30.400 --> 0:06:33.640 Stop and say, hey, wait a minute, we got to pray, 0:06:33.839 --> 0:06:36.040 and we get on her knees together's family, and we'd pray, 0:06:36.040 --> 0:06:38.919 and my dad would he didn't have really fancy prayers 0:06:38.960 --> 0:06:40.680 he would just talk to God and say, God, I 0:06:40.720 --> 0:06:42.000 don't know how to be a good dad. I don't 0:06:42.040 --> 0:06:44.440 know how to be a husband. Will you please show me, 0:06:45.120 --> 0:06:48.320 Please teach me. And so it's that humility and just 0:06:48.400 --> 0:06:52.320 that sincerity of I really want to change. I want 0:06:52.360 --> 0:06:54.520 this to change my life. And I saw it change 0:06:54.560 --> 0:06:56.800 my mom and dad, and so I grew up kind 0:06:56.800 --> 0:07:00.920 of watching that, and it was about It wasn't maybe 0:07:01.560 --> 0:07:05.039 a year later, after seeing this transformation happening in my 0:07:05.040 --> 0:07:06.400 home and in their lives, that we were sitting in 0:07:06.480 --> 0:07:08.400 church together and. 0:07:08.120 --> 0:07:10.400 In a very very real, clear way. 0:07:10.640 --> 0:07:14.720 I'll still I remember it all my life that the pastor, 0:07:14.920 --> 0:07:18.560 Brother David McMichael, was quoting a revelation at the end 0:07:18.600 --> 0:07:20.360 of his sermon, and I didn't pay any attention to 0:07:20.400 --> 0:07:22.360 anything he had said. But when he said these words, 0:07:22.680 --> 0:07:25.680 Jesus says, I stand at the door and knock, and 0:07:26.360 --> 0:07:30.040 if anyone would open the door, I'll come in. And 0:07:30.360 --> 0:07:34.360 when he said those words, it was it was just 0:07:34.480 --> 0:07:38.480 as clear as anything I'd ever experienced, that Jesus was 0:07:38.800 --> 0:07:40.960 knocking at the door of my heart. My heart was 0:07:41.000 --> 0:07:43.600 beating fast, and I was like, what is going on? 0:07:44.000 --> 0:07:47.080 But what his words? Those words are real and Jesus 0:07:47.200 --> 0:07:51.800 is now knocking at my heart and having seen the 0:07:51.840 --> 0:07:55.520 transformation in my family, that was, you know the beginning 0:07:55.680 --> 0:07:58.840 of my faith journey. And what I understood even then 0:07:59.160 --> 0:08:01.720 with that was, you know, he was a King James guy, 0:08:01.760 --> 0:08:03.600 as I like to say, he was the O G 0:08:04.160 --> 0:08:06.200 King James. You know, Jess says I'll come in and 0:08:06.240 --> 0:08:08.440 SUP with him. Of course he lost me on that. 0:08:08.560 --> 0:08:10.320 I didn't know what SUP meant and I was kind 0:08:10.320 --> 0:08:13.360 of looking like, what is that, you know, but he explained, 0:08:13.600 --> 0:08:17.880 you know, supper meal relation. It's like a relationship is 0:08:17.920 --> 0:08:20.040 like Jesus says, I want to come have a relationship 0:08:20.040 --> 0:08:20.200 with you. 0:08:20.240 --> 0:08:21.080 I don't. 0:08:21.120 --> 0:08:23.600 I don't just want your Sunday mornings and your Sunday 0:08:23.760 --> 0:08:24.560 you know, Sunday nights. 0:08:24.560 --> 0:08:27.640 I want a moment by moment relationship with you. 0:08:27.920 --> 0:08:31.520 And so that was for me the first of obviously 0:08:31.640 --> 0:08:35.800 a lifetime of very real, tangible moments of my faith 0:08:35.880 --> 0:08:39.079 becoming you know clear. But that was the first one. 0:08:39.200 --> 0:08:42.400 I love that so much. I think the knocking on 0:08:42.679 --> 0:08:45.360 the door of the hot you know, I think God 0:08:45.480 --> 0:08:49.280 is knocking on everyone's hot you know. This week, my 0:08:49.440 --> 0:08:52.240 nine year old boy, he knocked on his hot really 0:08:52.320 --> 0:08:55.400 everything going on me and said, Dad, I want to 0:08:55.440 --> 0:08:57.400 I want to stop reading the Bible every night. And 0:08:57.480 --> 0:08:59.120 I'm like, all right, so let's do it. 0:08:58.920 --> 0:09:00.800 It's like, yeah, yeah. 0:09:00.320 --> 0:09:02.080 I didn't have to make him. I didn't say, you know, 0:09:02.160 --> 0:09:03.640 I was just like he came to me. I'm like, 0:09:04.040 --> 0:09:08.520 that's the knocking, and we started reading. And two nights 0:09:08.559 --> 0:09:11.960 later he said, Dad, I know God's real, but I 0:09:11.960 --> 0:09:14.320 haven't ever asked him to be in my life seriously. 0:09:14.880 --> 0:09:18.280 And so just hearing that story is making me emotional 0:09:18.320 --> 0:09:21.440 because this week I saw that knocking and I saw 0:09:21.480 --> 0:09:23.360 that door open in my nine year old boy, my 0:09:23.400 --> 0:09:26.120 oldest son, and he just you know, we went through 0:09:26.200 --> 0:09:27.920 and it was like, this is what it means, scripture 0:09:27.920 --> 0:09:32.000 by scripture. Yeah, So for me, I think, what what 0:09:32.080 --> 0:09:34.480 have you seen just in your own personal life as 0:09:34.679 --> 0:09:36.600 a seven year old eight year old through that and 0:09:36.880 --> 0:09:40.240 experiencing tension and seeing your parents on their knees when 0:09:40.240 --> 0:09:41.960 they don't know what else to do. What does the 0:09:42.040 --> 0:09:45.920 knocking look like even in your family, your kids' lives, 0:09:46.000 --> 0:09:47.200 What's what's that look like? 0:09:47.720 --> 0:09:47.920 Well? 0:09:48.800 --> 0:09:52.600 I love that that story and of your your son, 0:09:52.880 --> 0:10:00.679 you know, it is the way God will his spirit 0:10:00.720 --> 0:10:03.640 will use you know, the things going on around us, 0:10:04.200 --> 0:10:06.319 you know, the ways that it's part of the wonder 0:10:06.440 --> 0:10:09.480 the mystery of God and his spirit. You know, like 0:10:09.559 --> 0:10:12.360 the wind, you know, you know, Scripture says that, you know, 0:10:12.480 --> 0:10:14.680 we can't see it coming and gone, we can't see 0:10:14.679 --> 0:10:17.320 it moving. We feel the effects of it, you know, 0:10:17.360 --> 0:10:19.480 we can see the effects of the wind. I saw 0:10:19.480 --> 0:10:21.800 the effects of that in my parents at that point 0:10:21.800 --> 0:10:24.800 in my life, and you know, I've watched it in 0:10:25.320 --> 0:10:28.400 my own kids. My little girl Maria, who's with Jesus 0:10:28.400 --> 0:10:34.960 now eighteen years she was five years old and getting 0:10:35.000 --> 0:10:37.880 ready for school one morning, and this was a real 0:10:37.920 --> 0:10:43.040 gift that the Lord gave us. When it was February 0:10:43.080 --> 0:10:46.320 twentieth of two thousand and eight. She would go be 0:10:46.400 --> 0:10:48.719 with Jesus in May of two thousand and eight, so 0:10:48.760 --> 0:10:51.720 it was only a few months before an accident that 0:10:51.760 --> 0:10:55.520 would take her life here on earth. And she was 0:10:55.559 --> 0:10:57.959 getting her shoes on, getting ready for school, preschool, and 0:10:58.040 --> 0:10:59.720 she went to this little preschool where they were learning 0:10:59.840 --> 0:11:03.240 songs to get ready for their spring program, their graduation. 0:11:03.320 --> 0:11:04.480 She's getting ready to. 0:11:04.480 --> 0:11:07.960 Graduate from preschool, and she said she was sitting on 0:11:08.000 --> 0:11:10.400 her on the floor of her mom getting her shoes on, 0:11:10.480 --> 0:11:12.520 and she said, Mom, does God really have a big house? 0:11:13.320 --> 0:11:18.560 And Mom said, yeah, yes, and as far you know, 0:11:18.640 --> 0:11:22.200 from what I understand and in the Bible, and she said, 0:11:22.200 --> 0:11:24.160 does it? Does it really have a lot of a 0:11:24.200 --> 0:11:27.480 lot of rooms in it? And so my wife it triggered. 0:11:27.559 --> 0:11:30.360 My wife knew she was learning a song, Big Big 0:11:30.400 --> 0:11:33.760 House by a group Audio Adrenaline Buddies of mine that 0:11:33.800 --> 0:11:35.760 I toured with, and I knew that song very well 0:11:35.760 --> 0:11:37.840 and she knew it, and she so she kind of 0:11:37.880 --> 0:11:40.600 keyed in that she's asking about this song because she's 0:11:40.640 --> 0:11:42.760 learning this song it's a big, big house with lots 0:11:42.760 --> 0:11:44.840 of lots of rooms, lots of lots of food, big 0:11:44.960 --> 0:11:47.240 yard you can play football. So my wife kind of, 0:11:47.480 --> 0:11:49.600 you know, tricked her and just said, yeah, it does 0:11:49.640 --> 0:11:50.880 have a lot of and it has a lot of 0:11:50.880 --> 0:11:53.160 food too, and there's a big yard where you can 0:11:53.200 --> 0:11:55.560 play football or whatever you want, you know, and really 0:11:55.600 --> 0:11:58.200 looked at her like, Mom, how did you know? You know? 0:11:58.280 --> 0:12:01.320 And she said, you're learning a song, I bet, aren't 0:12:01.360 --> 0:12:05.520 you for your preschool your little program? And she said yeah. 0:12:06.640 --> 0:12:09.559 And and so Maria, five years old, said, I want 0:12:09.600 --> 0:12:12.000 to go. I want to go to God's Big House. 0:12:12.960 --> 0:12:15.719 I want to go see it. Can I go? And 0:12:16.520 --> 0:12:19.319 so her mom in that moment, and I happened. 0:12:19.080 --> 0:12:20.760 To be home. I wasn't on the road or anything. 0:12:20.840 --> 0:12:21.240 She said. 0:12:22.160 --> 0:12:24.880 She called me and said, Stephen, I think you should 0:12:24.880 --> 0:12:28.200 come in here. Maria is asking some questions that I think, 0:12:28.400 --> 0:12:30.760 you know, it would be interesting to have a conversation 0:12:30.800 --> 0:12:32.360 with her. So I remember I sat her up on 0:12:32.400 --> 0:12:34.360 the kitchen counter so we were kind of eye to 0:12:34.400 --> 0:12:37.600 eye and just talk to her about, you know, you 0:12:37.640 --> 0:12:40.000 want to go see God's Big House. And I said, well, 0:12:40.840 --> 0:12:44.160 you know, we actually get to go there if we, 0:12:44.400 --> 0:12:48.240 you know, as we trust Jesus to you know, to 0:12:48.360 --> 0:12:51.040 take us. He's the way we get to, you know, 0:12:51.120 --> 0:12:54.160 to God's Big House and the Father. And tried to 0:12:54.160 --> 0:12:56.560 explain as best I could, and in my head, in 0:12:56.640 --> 0:12:59.520 my stupid, you know, adult brain, I'm going she's way 0:12:59.559 --> 0:13:01.760 too young. She doesn't understand that, she doesn't know what 0:13:01.800 --> 0:13:04.839 she's asking. But far be it from me to shut 0:13:04.840 --> 0:13:06.679 this down. I'm just gonna We're going to ride this 0:13:06.720 --> 0:13:09.400 wave and see what you know. And I said, do 0:13:09.440 --> 0:13:11.280 you want to talk to God and just you know, 0:13:11.320 --> 0:13:13.319 and talk to Jesus and ask him to, you know, 0:13:13.679 --> 0:13:16.199 let you come to his house and come into your 0:13:16.200 --> 0:13:18.600 heart and you know, lead, lead you through life. 0:13:18.600 --> 0:13:19.480 And she said yeah. 0:13:19.520 --> 0:13:23.480 And so her sister Stevie Joy, also adopted from China, 0:13:23.800 --> 0:13:27.520 who was only about six months older than her. She 0:13:27.640 --> 0:13:30.000 hears us talking, she's getting ready to and she's like, well, I. 0:13:29.920 --> 0:13:31.360 Want to go. I want to go too. 0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:34.439 So then I've set her up on the counter and 0:13:34.720 --> 0:13:37.600 kind of talk with her and we pray, and you know, 0:13:37.960 --> 0:13:40.040 at the at the point, I'm like, God, only you 0:13:40.120 --> 0:13:42.839 know what's going on really in her heart. But then, 0:13:42.880 --> 0:13:45.240 of course, you know, a few months later, you know, 0:13:45.400 --> 0:13:48.720 when when she would go be with Jesus. That was 0:13:48.880 --> 0:13:51.000 one of those amazing gifts that God gave us, just 0:13:51.080 --> 0:13:53.840 that sense of this is where she wanted to be. 0:13:54.040 --> 0:13:56.719 This is you know, and with all the sadness and 0:13:56.760 --> 0:13:59.880 the grief and you know, not sticking some you know, 0:14:00.040 --> 0:14:03.520 big Bible band aid on, you know, that wound of 0:14:03.600 --> 0:14:06.720 our soul that'll be there until we see Jesus and 0:14:06.800 --> 0:14:10.520 her face again. You know, it was an incredible gift 0:14:10.640 --> 0:14:13.400 and a comfort to us, you know, to just that 0:14:13.559 --> 0:14:17.200 moment that Jesus clearly knocked on her heart and in 0:14:17.200 --> 0:14:22.800 his sovereignty, knowing you know, what he knows, and so yeah, 0:14:22.800 --> 0:14:26.600 I mean there are the ways that he will use, 0:14:26.760 --> 0:14:30.280 even you know, in your son's case. I mean, so 0:14:30.400 --> 0:14:32.080 much that's going on in our world right now. 0:14:33.360 --> 0:14:35.120 You know he is questions. 0:14:35.280 --> 0:14:38.040 Yeah, those questions that will come, and and just the 0:14:38.120 --> 0:14:40.800 door that that opens for us to have those kind 0:14:40.800 --> 0:14:43.480 of conversations. I just believe that's the Holy Spirit at 0:14:43.520 --> 0:14:45.120 work in all of these things. 0:14:45.960 --> 0:14:48.240 I have to say, like hearing all of this, it's 0:14:48.240 --> 0:14:50.320 so encouraging for me. I have a four year old 0:14:50.320 --> 0:14:53.760 and a one year old, and we recently, while I 0:14:53.760 --> 0:14:55.400 would say over a little over a month ago, we 0:14:55.440 --> 0:14:58.560 put them in a Christian like mother's day out program. 0:14:58.600 --> 0:15:01.680 So it's out of church. It's you know, you think 0:15:01.760 --> 0:15:05.000 she's four years old, she doesn't know anything or whatever. Yeah, yeah, 0:15:05.200 --> 0:15:08.880 And it's so it's so amazing to see her little 0:15:09.440 --> 0:15:12.280 mind go, mom, we forgot to pray for our food, 0:15:12.360 --> 0:15:15.360 and she'll hold her hands and she'll say say the prayer, 0:15:15.640 --> 0:15:19.360 or she her stomach was feeling yucky one day this 0:15:19.400 --> 0:15:21.280 past week and she climbs up into my lap and 0:15:21.280 --> 0:15:23.280 she goes, Mommy, can you touch my belly? And ask 0:15:23.320 --> 0:15:25.160 God to make it feel better. And I was just like, 0:15:26.080 --> 0:15:29.920 it's like it's those small things that they're paying attention 0:15:30.120 --> 0:15:32.840 and they're listening, and they are learning about the love 0:15:32.880 --> 0:15:35.920 of Jesus and they're learning about his kingdom. And I 0:15:36.000 --> 0:15:40.040 just think just in the midst of tragedy, thinking back 0:15:40.080 --> 0:15:42.200 to that moment where you're like, that was that was 0:15:42.720 --> 0:15:44.640 for a reason? You know what I mean, it's just 0:15:44.680 --> 0:15:45.360 so encouraging. 0:15:45.680 --> 0:15:48.840 Yeah, And I love the knocking, you know, taking that 0:15:48.960 --> 0:15:52.000 diverse in revelation and which is absolutely true for everyone. 0:15:52.160 --> 0:15:55.200 You know, we say, God, shake toll, we say, but 0:15:55.280 --> 0:15:58.080 I love it as questions. I wonder about this and 0:15:58.120 --> 0:16:01.320 I think as kids, it's like my son's asking questions 0:16:01.360 --> 0:16:02.160 all the time, why this? 0:16:02.280 --> 0:16:02.800 What about this? 0:16:02.880 --> 0:16:05.600 And understanding learning. Then you get a bit older and 0:16:05.640 --> 0:16:10.000 the knocking, you know, it gets the questions are there, 0:16:10.040 --> 0:16:14.119 but I'm less likely to ask the questions because I feel, 0:16:14.320 --> 0:16:15.960 you know, pride or I feel like, you know, I 0:16:16.000 --> 0:16:19.920 should know that. And I think just that's so encouraging 0:16:19.960 --> 0:16:22.360 for me is to listen out and like you did, 0:16:22.400 --> 0:16:26.080 a tune your attention to go, whether questions are lean in, 0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:29.920 stop what I'm doing, focus in, and push through some 0:16:30.000 --> 0:16:33.320 of the you know, maybe some of the barriers of 0:16:34.520 --> 0:16:37.600 the subtleties in the questions, in the adults, in my 0:16:37.680 --> 0:16:39.400 friends and people I do life that are around me 0:16:39.440 --> 0:16:43.360 all the time and recognize them as that's God, the 0:16:43.360 --> 0:16:46.880 Holy Spirit knocking on their heart, and to to tune 0:16:46.920 --> 0:16:49.080 in and say, you know, hey, yeah, let's let's have 0:16:49.120 --> 0:16:52.080 a conversation, Let's have a dialogue. I think with everything 0:16:52.120 --> 0:16:57.120 going on right now, the world is so obviously binary. 0:16:57.320 --> 0:16:59.520 I feel like there is such a more than it 0:16:59.560 --> 0:17:06.960 ever has been before, a clear binary. Yeah, like it's 0:17:07.080 --> 0:17:07.560 light and. 0:17:07.480 --> 0:17:08.920 It's dark, so much division. 0:17:09.000 --> 0:17:12.440 Yeah, and the dialogue, if the questions are the knocking 0:17:12.480 --> 0:17:15.160 of the Holy Spirit, how important it is to open 0:17:15.240 --> 0:17:17.920 up the conversations and also posture ourselves in a way 0:17:18.320 --> 0:17:21.560 to be able to have those conversations with people and 0:17:21.800 --> 0:17:23.320 people to feel like they can ask. 0:17:23.400 --> 0:17:28.480 And so we love our pastor and friend for so 0:17:28.520 --> 0:17:31.080 many years Scatti Smith. He always talks about, you know, 0:17:31.359 --> 0:17:33.880 we're we are not called to be the fourth member 0:17:33.880 --> 0:17:35.840 of the trinity, you know, and so often I think 0:17:35.880 --> 0:17:38.800 we feel like and especially that's what I think happens 0:17:38.800 --> 0:17:40.919 with just you know, I have to convince you have 0:17:40.960 --> 0:17:43.760 to you know, uh, you know, make sure that you 0:17:43.760 --> 0:17:46.000 you know that you get it, and you know that 0:17:46.160 --> 0:17:48.320 is the job of the Holy Spirit. Our job is 0:17:48.440 --> 0:17:51.760 you know, have the conversations, you know, the questions, stay 0:17:52.720 --> 0:17:58.320 just you know, staying uh, keeping wonder in it and 0:17:59.080 --> 0:18:02.639 curiosity and you know, I love you know, there's a 0:18:03.200 --> 0:18:05.040 you know, uh G. K. 0:18:05.200 --> 0:18:05.680 Chesterton. 0:18:05.760 --> 0:18:08.080 You know he talks about you know that that we're 0:18:08.119 --> 0:18:10.480 the ones who grow old because we have sinned and 0:18:10.480 --> 0:18:14.159 and we actually grow. God is infinitely young, and he 0:18:14.280 --> 0:18:17.760 never grows tired of doing again and again the things 0:18:17.800 --> 0:18:21.600 that show us his goodness, his love. Every morning, you know, 0:18:21.680 --> 0:18:23.920 he talks about the sun to you know, God says 0:18:23.960 --> 0:18:26.439 to the sun, do it again, do it again, you know, 0:18:26.760 --> 0:18:29.160 and every you know, every night you know, the moon, 0:18:29.359 --> 0:18:32.119 do it again. You know, come, and just that sense 0:18:32.200 --> 0:18:33.919 of that God in the same way that God is 0:18:33.960 --> 0:18:37.200 always knocking, He's always he's you know, he's given us, 0:18:37.480 --> 0:18:41.119 you know, he's he's always revealing himself, you know, around 0:18:41.200 --> 0:18:45.880 us in conversations and in nature and and always knocking. 0:18:46.080 --> 0:18:49.760 If we just can have a child likeness enough and 0:18:50.240 --> 0:18:53.520 humility to hear and listen and receive what it is 0:18:53.560 --> 0:18:54.000 that he's. 0:18:54.200 --> 0:18:55.000 Saying I. 0:18:56.880 --> 0:19:00.400 Just keep thinking about people who are watching that might 0:19:00.440 --> 0:19:03.919 not necessarily know the love of Jesus or might not 0:19:04.040 --> 0:19:06.359 understand it is a better way to say it. But 0:19:06.560 --> 0:19:08.960 walking through such a hard time in your life of 0:19:09.119 --> 0:19:12.080 losing a child is one of the most unimaginable things, 0:19:12.200 --> 0:19:16.000 you know, a parent can walk through. In those moments, 0:19:17.000 --> 0:19:19.600 did God ever feel far away from you? Did you 0:19:19.680 --> 0:19:23.160 ever have those questions of like you know, the why, 0:19:23.480 --> 0:19:26.879 and those feelings of just grief? 0:19:28.119 --> 0:19:28.280 Oh? 0:19:28.400 --> 0:19:34.359 Yes, I mean you can't begin to you know. I 0:19:35.000 --> 0:19:36.600 will say it this way is probably the best way 0:19:36.760 --> 0:19:39.159 to try to answer that and explain it. You know, 0:19:39.280 --> 0:19:44.320 I had always loved the psalms, and especially as a musician, 0:19:44.480 --> 0:19:48.520 you know, and a Christian musician, the psalms are, you know, 0:19:48.720 --> 0:19:51.359 just your go to. It's like this is the og, 0:19:51.720 --> 0:19:55.800 you know, this is it. But like so many I think, 0:19:55.920 --> 0:19:59.080 you know, you gravitate towards your love is better than life, 0:19:59.119 --> 0:20:01.080 better as one day your courts. I mean, we sing 0:20:01.080 --> 0:20:03.240 the songs that are all over the you know, modern 0:20:03.240 --> 0:20:07.120 worship songs, all of those, you know, great declarations of 0:20:07.160 --> 0:20:09.879 the love of God and the grace of God. I 0:20:10.040 --> 0:20:15.439 had never really probably just skipped over the hard, you know. 0:20:15.560 --> 0:20:18.200 I'm like, yeah, but I don't what's the how long? 0:20:18.200 --> 0:20:18.720 O Lords? 0:20:18.760 --> 0:20:20.760 And all of those things you know that are and 0:20:20.800 --> 0:20:25.000 you not until walking through this that are really you know, 0:20:26.040 --> 0:20:31.040 recognize and come to realize that most many of those celebrated, 0:20:31.520 --> 0:20:34.960 you know, beautiful declarations that we make in our worship 0:20:35.000 --> 0:20:38.679 songs actually come in the very same verse or the 0:20:38.760 --> 0:20:41.879 very same passage in chapter you know, after the how long, 0:20:41.960 --> 0:20:42.320 O Lord? 0:20:42.320 --> 0:20:45.199 Are you going to forget me forever? You know? 0:20:45.359 --> 0:20:48.359 And then there's this turn of soul? Why are you 0:20:48.440 --> 0:20:49.320 so downcast? 0:20:49.400 --> 0:20:50.879 Within me? Hope in God? 0:20:51.280 --> 0:20:54.919 It's like the Psalmist is, you know, is giving us 0:20:54.960 --> 0:20:58.760 this incredible The whole process of this is where a 0:20:58.760 --> 0:21:00.000 lot of life is going to be lived. 0:21:00.359 --> 0:21:01.200 How long? Oh Lord? 0:21:01.440 --> 0:21:05.440 This makes no sense. I don't get it. You're I'm 0:21:05.480 --> 0:21:09.160 off the radar. If you even exist, you know, then 0:21:09.480 --> 0:21:12.479 I guess you've forgotten me clearly, you know, And I'll 0:21:12.560 --> 0:21:14.720 just grant you that you exist. But you forgot me 0:21:15.240 --> 0:21:17.800 and and my plight and my pain and all of 0:21:17.800 --> 0:21:22.480 that and what's so amazing? And I didn't I will 0:21:22.520 --> 0:21:27.320 say that I really didn't understand so much of the 0:21:27.320 --> 0:21:32.000 Psalms until walking through this, and suddenly those verses became 0:21:33.119 --> 0:21:36.879 life for me because I was so desperate for someone 0:21:36.920 --> 0:21:41.040 who you know, could enter into that pain, you know 0:21:41.119 --> 0:21:44.280 with me and say and I suddenly those those were 0:21:44.480 --> 0:21:47.399 that gave me, you know, voice to the things that 0:21:47.440 --> 0:21:50.200 I was feeling, that distance and that and that how 0:21:50.280 --> 0:21:54.399 long you know, oh Lord, thing that we feel in 0:21:54.440 --> 0:21:58.200 those moments of God. I just I can't imagine this ever, 0:21:58.880 --> 0:22:05.520 ever being anything thing other than just absolute you know, sadness, uh, 0:22:05.760 --> 0:22:11.320 just you know, pain. And and yet what I have 0:22:11.440 --> 0:22:15.080 learned from that and still learning is that, you know, 0:22:15.200 --> 0:22:18.600 I'm so thankful, aren't we all as people faith that 0:22:18.640 --> 0:22:23.080 God didn't edit out in the Bible what most of 0:22:23.160 --> 0:22:25.320 us would have edited out of a book if we 0:22:25.320 --> 0:22:28.679 were having it written about us and our our you know, 0:22:28.760 --> 0:22:30.879 faith that we created would be, oh, don't put that 0:22:30.960 --> 0:22:35.119 in there. You know, God, you know, absolutely, uh, you know, 0:22:35.520 --> 0:22:39.720 inspired all of that to be included, because those are 0:22:40.280 --> 0:22:43.160 you know, when we are so desperate to have that, 0:22:43.520 --> 0:22:45.919 those you know, those places where what you know, what 0:22:46.000 --> 0:22:50.480 the Psalmist teaches us that he did right, that he 0:22:50.560 --> 0:22:53.840 got right in all of that, is that every at 0:22:53.880 --> 0:22:57.040 every point he is bringing all of that and pouring 0:22:57.080 --> 0:23:01.000 it out, you know, to God, and you know the confusion, 0:23:01.440 --> 0:23:05.359 the sadness, the grief. You know, job is the same, 0:23:05.480 --> 0:23:07.520 you know, we get all of that and then this 0:23:07.800 --> 0:23:11.720 just resolution and for me, and I remember it very clearly, 0:23:11.760 --> 0:23:15.919 and I've told this, shared this before, but you know 0:23:16.440 --> 0:23:19.479 when when we first lost our daughter, and I remember 0:23:19.520 --> 0:23:24.879 just at the hospital, Vanderbilt Children's Hospital, receiving the news 0:23:24.880 --> 0:23:31.439 that that she hadn't survived, and just feeling this what 0:23:31.560 --> 0:23:34.000 I call a black hole of despair. It just felt 0:23:34.000 --> 0:23:36.320 like what I understand a black hole to be. It's 0:23:36.359 --> 0:23:40.080 just it sucks everything into it and and and at 0:23:40.080 --> 0:23:42.639 that point it ceases to be and I remember just thinking, 0:23:43.200 --> 0:23:47.000 I I am being sucked into this, and I don't 0:23:47.040 --> 0:23:50.800 think there's ever a I don't there won't be another 0:23:51.119 --> 0:23:53.719 come out the other side. This is just gonna, you know, 0:23:54.080 --> 0:23:57.359 just take take me. And I would start to feel 0:23:58.240 --> 0:24:01.800 being kind of sucked into that black hole of hopelessness, 0:24:01.840 --> 0:24:07.000 and then just again, by by God's grace, I would 0:24:07.080 --> 0:24:09.600 take a breath and all that would come to mind 0:24:09.880 --> 0:24:14.200 is Blessed be your name. You give and you take away, 0:24:14.640 --> 0:24:16.920 Blessed be your name. And there was a song my 0:24:17.000 --> 0:24:20.400 dear friend Matt Redmond had written that I knew that 0:24:20.480 --> 0:24:23.719 song and I would just try to sing it, squeak 0:24:23.760 --> 0:24:27.760 it out whatever I could get out, and and when 0:24:27.760 --> 0:24:32.440 I would do that, it's like my next breath. I could, 0:24:32.520 --> 0:24:34.760 I could breathe, but it's like I just taken my 0:24:34.840 --> 0:24:37.840 last breath, but I just took enough to get out. 0:24:38.119 --> 0:24:40.480 Blessed be your name, you give you take away, but 0:24:40.520 --> 0:24:43.199 I'm gonna. I'm gonna bless your name. I'm gonna worship you, 0:24:43.720 --> 0:24:44.879 And all of a sudden, I take a breath. I 0:24:44.920 --> 0:24:47.280 was like, whoa, I got. I got breath back in 0:24:47.359 --> 0:24:50.600 my lungs now for just a few more steps, you know, 0:24:51.080 --> 0:24:54.000 and then start to feel that black hole pull me in, 0:24:54.080 --> 0:24:56.600 and then it'd be that again. I'm gonna, I'm gonna 0:24:56.720 --> 0:25:01.560 choose to trust you, bless your name, worse you. And 0:25:01.600 --> 0:25:05.120 in that same sense of those psalms, it was just like, God, 0:25:05.200 --> 0:25:07.240 this is what I feel. I'm gonna pour this out 0:25:07.280 --> 0:25:09.720 to you, But so why are you? 0:25:09.760 --> 0:25:10.240 So? You know? 0:25:10.320 --> 0:25:12.119 I got this picture all of a sudden as I 0:25:12.160 --> 0:25:14.640 was reading those songs that the psawmist is literally pounding 0:25:14.680 --> 0:25:17.040 on his own chest, going, come on heart, you know, 0:25:17.160 --> 0:25:20.439 beat soul, Why are you so downcast? Remember what is? 0:25:20.680 --> 0:25:23.520 It's true? It is, this is all true. It's crazy. 0:25:23.560 --> 0:25:29.400 The world is completely going nuts right now in our situation. 0:25:29.560 --> 0:25:31.840 Our pain is so real and true and I don't 0:25:31.880 --> 0:25:34.040 know how we're going to survive it. That's all true. 0:25:34.560 --> 0:25:38.800 But what's what I'm gonna choose to believe is most 0:25:38.880 --> 0:25:42.920 true is that God, you were faithful, you were good, 0:25:42.960 --> 0:25:45.720 you were with us, And as crazy as that even 0:25:45.760 --> 0:25:47.679 sounds to say it out loud right now, I'm going 0:25:47.760 --> 0:25:50.480 to keep declaring it and saying And the more we did, 0:25:50.560 --> 0:25:55.400 the more I felt that oxygen come back into my lungs. 0:25:55.440 --> 0:25:58.880 And it was that daily, breath by breath, step by 0:25:58.880 --> 0:26:02.359 step process, especially in the early you know, days and 0:26:02.440 --> 0:26:08.400 hours of that, and God has just been faithful. And 0:26:08.600 --> 0:26:11.600 we still have days, as we all do, and we 0:26:11.640 --> 0:26:14.520 as a family still carry that broken heart, and some days, 0:26:14.840 --> 0:26:18.800 you know, my bride will just still be so angry. 0:26:18.400 --> 0:26:20.879 And I just don't get it. I still don't get it. 0:26:21.240 --> 0:26:23.520 You know, there's so many other ways God could have 0:26:23.560 --> 0:26:28.720 done all these wonderful things other than this way. And 0:26:28.800 --> 0:26:32.320 yet I'm gonna keep I'm gonna trust you God, and. 0:26:32.280 --> 0:26:37.480 I love David as a man after God's own heart. 0:26:37.840 --> 0:26:43.280 He's known, and as I'm hearing you share, I can't 0:26:43.280 --> 0:26:46.560 help but think, like, God loves us so much. He 0:26:46.640 --> 0:26:50.920 loves David, he loves you so much. He's wanting honesty, 0:26:51.359 --> 0:26:53.919 you know, He's wanting not just the polished, not the 0:26:54.040 --> 0:26:58.160 well rehearsed facade. And we sometimes I feel like we've 0:26:58.160 --> 0:27:01.399 got to come and like he's this this big you know, 0:27:01.920 --> 0:27:05.240 I've got to be all dressed up button. But God's wanting, 0:27:05.520 --> 0:27:07.439 as you see in the Psalms, he's wanting. He's just 0:27:07.440 --> 0:27:10.360 wanting you your heart, the honesty. And in the garden 0:27:10.440 --> 0:27:13.199 when Adam and Eva, he's like where are you? 0:27:13.480 --> 0:27:14.240 Why are you hiding? 0:27:14.840 --> 0:27:18.119 He's like, hey, it's okay. And shame keeps us, you know, 0:27:18.200 --> 0:27:21.000 the pain of everything we're going through keeps us hidden. 0:27:21.040 --> 0:27:23.439 But God saying, hey, I can handle your honesty. I 0:27:23.440 --> 0:27:26.560 love you that much. And to see that, and that's 0:27:26.800 --> 0:27:30.040 that's really hard, is too I feel like to be 0:27:30.320 --> 0:27:34.120 that honest and raw. But reading the Psalms, you go, oh, man, 0:27:34.320 --> 0:27:37.119 this is God's heart, is that he just wants to 0:27:37.240 --> 0:27:40.800 know you in that way. And so to hear to 0:27:40.880 --> 0:27:44.119 hear that so encouraging and just for many people that 0:27:44.240 --> 0:27:46.800 you know, when you're reading the Bible, it's like, I 0:27:46.840 --> 0:27:48.920 don't I've got to get to a certain point first. 0:27:48.920 --> 0:27:50.000 I've got to get you know. 0:27:50.280 --> 0:27:52.920 But God say, no, wherever you're at, doesn't matter where 0:27:52.920 --> 0:27:55.439 your outcomers you are, no matter how much it hurts, 0:27:55.480 --> 0:27:57.280 no matter what you're going through, the loss of a 0:27:57.400 --> 0:28:01.280 daughter bro unimaginable, but just shit, tell God this is 0:28:01.520 --> 0:28:03.840 this is what I'm feeling, and let him heal that. 0:28:04.000 --> 0:28:06.760 Do you feel like post. 0:28:06.920 --> 0:28:09.919 Now how many eighteen years you say, do you feel 0:28:09.960 --> 0:28:13.639 like from a healing perspective? You say, there's moments and 0:28:13.680 --> 0:28:16.320 there's times where you still struggle, you're still angry. What 0:28:17.280 --> 0:28:20.240 where do you feel like from a healing perspective? 0:28:23.359 --> 0:28:26.080 Is the is the goal? Is that? 0:28:26.800 --> 0:28:30.399 Where do you explain to me the theology or the 0:28:30.760 --> 0:28:33.280 thoughts or the wrestles with the level of healing of that. 0:28:33.520 --> 0:28:36.240 Do you feel like, man, you're looking for total healing. 0:28:36.320 --> 0:28:38.160 Do you feel like it's a part of just the 0:28:38.200 --> 0:28:42.400 story and the scar that God's using Because I wrestle 0:28:42.440 --> 0:28:46.600 with that, I wrestle with like God, full healing, partial healing, scars, 0:28:46.720 --> 0:28:48.720 open wounds, That's. 0:28:48.480 --> 0:28:55.280 Something we we say it was my son actually who 0:28:55.760 --> 0:28:58.680 who have to give credit to him for this freeze 0:29:00.040 --> 0:29:02.600 when he talks about our family, because my son's uh 0:29:02.760 --> 0:29:05.560 Caleb and Will are now are now adults. They were 0:29:06.160 --> 0:29:09.680 you know, teenage guys, junior senior in high school when 0:29:09.720 --> 0:29:13.320 that when that happened, and so you know, journeying through 0:29:13.320 --> 0:29:16.600 that together as a family. The impact that losing their 0:29:16.800 --> 0:29:22.280 little sister had on them obviously incredible impact on them 0:29:22.320 --> 0:29:27.240 as well. And uh, my son Caleb in an interview 0:29:27.560 --> 0:29:30.280 they do music as well. Their band Colony House. Shout out, 0:29:30.720 --> 0:29:33.000 uh a little shameless plug for the greatest rock band 0:29:33.040 --> 0:29:34.400 on the planet. If you want to listen to the 0:29:34.400 --> 0:29:38.040 greatest rock band ever since the history of the of 0:29:38.040 --> 0:29:40.760 of you know, the world, Uh, check out Colony House. 0:29:40.920 --> 0:29:45.760 Amazing songwriter, my son and drummer Will Franklin, his brother 0:29:45.840 --> 0:29:49.360 and her other son. But he was talking in an 0:29:49.360 --> 0:29:53.200 interview about our family and how have you guys, you know, 0:29:53.400 --> 0:29:56.800 processed this and you know, because there, I mean, there 0:29:56.880 --> 0:30:00.040 was a there was there were many moments in and 0:30:00.320 --> 0:30:05.200 you know, in the earliest days where we really felt like, gosh, 0:30:05.280 --> 0:30:08.040 I don't think we will ever. I don't think it'll 0:30:08.080 --> 0:30:11.600 ever be feel appropriate to laugh again. I'd hear laughter, 0:30:11.760 --> 0:30:14.600 you know, in those early days in some part of 0:30:14.640 --> 0:30:17.000 the room, and I think, man, I don't think I'll 0:30:17.040 --> 0:30:20.840 ever my heart will ever be light again to feel 0:30:20.880 --> 0:30:24.200 it is appropriate to even laugh, because there's this weird 0:30:24.200 --> 0:30:26.320 thing with grief, at least in our case, and you know, 0:30:26.360 --> 0:30:29.320 it's stuff you wrestle with, like to honor the loss 0:30:29.320 --> 0:30:31.720 and the pain and our daughter and her memory and 0:30:31.760 --> 0:30:35.000 her life. It will never be, you know, okay, to laugh, 0:30:35.160 --> 0:30:38.680 because that would somehow dishonor this this depth of sadness 0:30:38.680 --> 0:30:41.200 and pain that we carry. We will carry with us 0:30:41.280 --> 0:30:45.360 until you know, until we see her her face and 0:30:45.600 --> 0:30:50.320 Jesus face. And then with time, you know, God does 0:30:50.800 --> 0:30:53.160 give you back that gift of laughter, you know. With music, 0:30:53.200 --> 0:30:54.800 and a lot of music that I'd written, I thought 0:30:54.800 --> 0:30:57.720 I can't ever imagine, you know, standing on a stage 0:30:57.760 --> 0:30:59.720 in your hat that says saddle up or following the 0:30:59.720 --> 0:31:01.840 Lord to song that people that listen to my music 0:31:01.840 --> 0:31:04.280 over the years know well called The Great Adventure that 0:31:04.440 --> 0:31:07.640 is written actually at the time from a pretty dark 0:31:07.680 --> 0:31:10.800 place where God just met me with his grace in 0:31:10.840 --> 0:31:13.320 a way that made me go wow, Okay, this is 0:31:13.400 --> 0:31:15.880 like God is calling us on an adventure. 0:31:15.920 --> 0:31:16.280 Let's go. 0:31:16.360 --> 0:31:18.960 It's gonna go mountains, it's gonna go valleys. It's gonna 0:31:19.000 --> 0:31:20.760 be hard, it's gonna be harder than you ever thought. 0:31:20.960 --> 0:31:23.000 But I will be with you, and I'll be leading you. 0:31:23.080 --> 0:31:25.680 And this is an adventure of following me. Will you 0:31:25.720 --> 0:31:28.800 come with me? And so that song was written out 0:31:28.800 --> 0:31:31.360 of that, but it became this, you know, summer camp 0:31:31.440 --> 0:31:34.000 theme song for you know, everybody just you know, fisting 0:31:34.040 --> 0:31:36.720 there like let's go, I'd love your horses. And so 0:31:36.760 --> 0:31:38.880 I thought, will it ever be okay to play that 0:31:39.000 --> 0:31:41.600 song again? Because you know that song is full of 0:31:41.920 --> 0:31:45.720 you know, just joy and passion and let's go and 0:31:45.720 --> 0:31:49.080 and you know, so with with time, Yes, I was 0:31:49.280 --> 0:31:51.520 in singing that song now and it took on a 0:31:51.520 --> 0:31:54.080 whole new meaning. You know, so many of the lyrics 0:31:54.120 --> 0:31:57.440 that you know I had already written, all of a sudden, Okay, 0:31:57.640 --> 0:32:00.320 these now even mean more. I can sing these with 0:32:00.400 --> 0:32:04.920 a greater conviction and and all of that. But my 0:32:04.920 --> 0:32:07.040 my son was asked in this thing about you know, 0:32:07.040 --> 0:32:10.560 how's your family, uh, you know, doing and and all 0:32:10.600 --> 0:32:12.240 of that, and he used this phrase, says you know 0:32:13.040 --> 0:32:17.240 we we hobble, but I think we hobble well. And 0:32:17.280 --> 0:32:19.480 it's it's kind of that same thing of we we 0:32:19.560 --> 0:32:23.280 have been crippled, you know by this we uh, we're 0:32:23.280 --> 0:32:28.320 not you know, the full healing I believe, certainly for 0:32:28.480 --> 0:32:31.160 us is not going to come until you know, we 0:32:31.240 --> 0:32:34.800 see Jesus uh, and until the day he finishes wiping 0:32:34.840 --> 0:32:38.640 every tear from our eyes. I mean, verses like you know, 0:32:38.920 --> 0:32:43.160 Jesus Wept became so like one of the most powerful, 0:32:43.240 --> 0:32:46.120 precious verses in all of Scripture. You know, where when 0:32:46.120 --> 0:32:47.800 I was a kid, that was just kind of almost 0:32:47.840 --> 0:32:49.880 the that was the memory verse if you got called 0:32:49.880 --> 0:32:51.920 on and you know, Sunday schools, like anybody got a 0:32:51.960 --> 0:32:54.040 Bible verses, I got one Jesus. You know, it was 0:32:54.080 --> 0:32:56.280 almost more of like a you know that I didn't 0:32:56.400 --> 0:32:59.080 again and begin to understand the enormity of that story 0:32:59.080 --> 0:33:02.239 to hear Jesus is knowing I'm gonna raise Lazarus from 0:33:02.280 --> 0:33:04.239 the dead. I'm gonna turn this whole thing around. It's 0:33:04.240 --> 0:33:07.480 gonna end up in a crazy party before this. 0:33:07.440 --> 0:33:08.080 Day is over. 0:33:08.560 --> 0:33:11.360 But my friend Lazarus is going to die again, you know, 0:33:11.600 --> 0:33:13.640 this side of heaven, I mean this isn't you know, 0:33:14.080 --> 0:33:16.880 this isn't heaven. This is a final resurrection. But I'm 0:33:16.880 --> 0:33:18.720 going to raise him from the dead. But still Jesus 0:33:18.760 --> 0:33:21.800 stood there with his friends and entered into that moment 0:33:21.880 --> 0:33:26.200 of grief and sadness and raged at death and wept 0:33:26.360 --> 0:33:29.320 with his friends. And that has you know, I think 0:33:29.440 --> 0:33:32.120 we are living in what C. S. Lewis calls the 0:33:32.160 --> 0:33:36.160 shadow lands. You know, we're living with these broken stories 0:33:36.200 --> 0:33:40.040 and broken hearts and even the healing you know that 0:33:40.200 --> 0:33:43.760 comes carries with it. I mean, for years, we we've 0:33:43.800 --> 0:33:46.240 got to operate through the work my wife and I 0:33:46.240 --> 0:33:49.880 are part of advocating for orphans and adoption called Show Hope. 0:33:50.160 --> 0:33:52.160 We got to work for ten years in China, very 0:33:52.160 --> 0:33:55.760 specifically at a place that cared for children that have 0:33:55.880 --> 0:33:59.920 some severe medical special needs. And the place was built 0:34:00.080 --> 0:34:02.400 and honor and named after our daughter, Maria, was called 0:34:02.440 --> 0:34:05.680 Maria's Big House of Hope, named after her, you know 0:34:06.000 --> 0:34:10.040 entrance into you know, into the Kingdom by this song 0:34:10.080 --> 0:34:11.880 Big House, and we thought, well, let's call it Maria's 0:34:11.920 --> 0:34:13.960 Big House of Hope. It's where she wanted to be. 0:34:14.480 --> 0:34:18.400 And we had to care for thousands of children for 0:34:18.440 --> 0:34:21.839 about ten years because of things with governments and all 0:34:21.880 --> 0:34:24.880 things that have changed in recent years, it became impossible 0:34:24.920 --> 0:34:27.439 for us to continue that work. But for ten years 0:34:27.440 --> 0:34:32.440 we got to see many, many children healed, put in 0:34:32.640 --> 0:34:35.440 you know, into families, adopted children that weren't going to survive. 0:34:35.760 --> 0:34:38.319 Many that did pass away, but they passed away with 0:34:38.400 --> 0:34:42.680 dignity and with care and someone loving them and you know, 0:34:42.840 --> 0:34:45.520 weeping for them. And so it was a beautiful place 0:34:45.600 --> 0:34:47.840 that you know, that carried our daughter's name, and we 0:34:47.880 --> 0:34:50.680 saw the beauty of that. It's like that is an amazing, 0:34:50.760 --> 0:34:54.160 beautiful thing that that came, the beauty from these ashes. 0:34:54.600 --> 0:34:57.080 But even that carried with it a sadness that we 0:34:57.680 --> 0:35:02.160 wish selfishly this place didn't even exists, because my wife 0:35:02.160 --> 0:35:03.960 would say, if she was sitting here, I won't I 0:35:03.960 --> 0:35:06.560 would if God gave me the choice, I'm sorry and 0:35:06.640 --> 0:35:09.480 I'll you know, lightning strike me. I just would take 0:35:09.520 --> 0:35:12.080 my daughter back if I had the option. So you 0:35:12.120 --> 0:35:15.239 carry that's the hobble. You hobble with that reality. And 0:35:15.320 --> 0:35:18.200 yet God, you know, you experience God in it, you 0:35:18.280 --> 0:35:20.680 experience healing in it, and it's the already it's that. 0:35:20.800 --> 0:35:23.359 Not yet you're still waiting for the ultimate, you know, 0:35:23.600 --> 0:35:25.880 wiping of the tear, every tear from your eyes. 0:35:27.400 --> 0:35:27.600 Yeah. 0:35:27.640 --> 0:35:30.520 I think hearing all of this, it just reminds me 0:35:30.600 --> 0:35:33.080 of how we're not supposed to do this alone, right, 0:35:33.320 --> 0:35:37.839 How we're not supposed to handle the grief we can't. Yes, 0:35:37.920 --> 0:35:40.359 that's why he asks us to cast, you know, all 0:35:40.400 --> 0:35:42.759 of our fears, all of our worries, all of our anxieties, 0:35:42.840 --> 0:35:45.000 everything on him, because we're just we're just not meant 0:35:45.040 --> 0:35:47.600 to carry it on our own. And I think it 0:35:47.680 --> 0:35:52.520 is almost such a beautiful depiction of that, because you 0:35:52.600 --> 0:35:54.960 are going to hobble until you see her face again, 0:35:55.239 --> 0:35:58.440 you know. And I just think that that reminder of 0:35:58.760 --> 0:36:02.440 we can't do this alone. It's just it's definitely something 0:36:02.480 --> 0:36:06.120 that I keep thinking of throughout this and thinking of 0:36:06.160 --> 0:36:08.760 somebody that's listening right now who has lost a child 0:36:09.000 --> 0:36:12.600 or lost a spouse or someone they love. What would 0:36:12.600 --> 0:36:14.920 you say to them as they walk through grief? 0:36:16.480 --> 0:36:16.880 Oh? 0:36:16.960 --> 0:36:21.480 Wow, Well, just first of all, one of the you know, 0:36:21.600 --> 0:36:25.440 the great challenges. One of the great I believe lies 0:36:25.520 --> 0:36:31.279 that the enemy of goodness and all things beautiful that 0:36:31.320 --> 0:36:36.640 reflect the heart of God would whisper lies of you 0:36:36.760 --> 0:36:40.200 are alone. You're the only person who has ever ever 0:36:40.280 --> 0:36:43.919 hurt this way? And how dare God, you know, put 0:36:43.960 --> 0:36:48.520 you through this all of those those kinds of voices. 0:36:48.680 --> 0:36:54.000 And in fact, I mean just because I've put all 0:36:54.120 --> 0:36:56.960 these thoughts in song lyrics, it's weird to say I 0:36:57.000 --> 0:36:59.440 wrote this song lyric like, listen to the song, not 0:36:59.520 --> 0:37:01.640 that it all just the You know that there was 0:37:01.920 --> 0:37:05.080 a lyric in a song that I wrote, Don't Lose Heart. 0:37:05.840 --> 0:37:08.759 You know that says you know, here's having it's another 0:37:08.840 --> 0:37:11.520 sleepless night. You're praying hope comes with the morning light. 0:37:11.640 --> 0:37:14.040 Right now, right now, you're feeling like you've lost his fight. 0:37:14.480 --> 0:37:17.400 Fear is screaming out your name. You say, God help me, 0:37:17.920 --> 0:37:20.640 and you wonder if he's even listening. The truth is 0:37:20.680 --> 0:37:23.279 I've wondered the very same thing. So you don't have 0:37:23.320 --> 0:37:26.279 to feel ashamed. Let me walk through this with you 0:37:26.640 --> 0:37:28.960 and tell you all that I've learned to be true, 0:37:29.080 --> 0:37:31.120 don't be don't lose heart. And it's but to your 0:37:31.160 --> 0:37:33.160 point of we just we need we need each other, 0:37:34.040 --> 0:37:36.759 We need, you know, others to come around us and 0:37:36.800 --> 0:37:40.600 remind us of what is true. That God is with us, 0:37:40.640 --> 0:37:44.040 that he is faithful, and for reasons that we cannot 0:37:44.200 --> 0:37:46.759 understand because you ask the question why do you ask? 0:37:46.880 --> 0:37:49.399 Do you ask the question? Why do you wrestle with that? Absolutely? 0:37:50.719 --> 0:37:54.239 And we have learned you know that there's that's there's 0:37:54.280 --> 0:37:57.359 not shame in that that God Again the wonderful thing 0:37:57.400 --> 0:38:00.439 about scripture about the Psalms, that God never said, don't 0:38:00.480 --> 0:38:02.799 you don't you dare ask? Why don't you dare question me? 0:38:03.080 --> 0:38:04.920 You know that is not the heart of our father? 0:38:05.600 --> 0:38:07.920 You know, we we begin to understand. It's probably the 0:38:07.920 --> 0:38:11.919 most amazing picture that someone gave me. And in fact, 0:38:11.960 --> 0:38:15.400 they gave me a literal picture of physical picture that 0:38:15.440 --> 0:38:19.080 they founded this. And as I was wrestling with, you know, 0:38:19.600 --> 0:38:22.719 all of the questions and continue to with God, why 0:38:23.320 --> 0:38:25.799 why didn't you step in? Why don't you step in 0:38:25.800 --> 0:38:28.560 in these moments? Because if I believe you are good 0:38:28.600 --> 0:38:32.680 and and you know, all powerful, all present, you know, 0:38:32.880 --> 0:38:37.600 I just can't. I can't understand that and don't understand it, 0:38:37.680 --> 0:38:40.720 And no I won't, but I'm still going to wrestle 0:38:40.760 --> 0:38:44.960 with those questions of why. And he gave me this 0:38:45.200 --> 0:38:50.680 visual of a horse that is with all of its 0:38:50.719 --> 0:38:57.400 strength just straining to charge in too, you know, to 0:38:57.520 --> 0:39:01.840 a situation to rescue and you can see just the 0:39:01.840 --> 0:39:06.040 the intensity and the eyes, you know, of this powerful, 0:39:06.440 --> 0:39:10.640 strong animal just wanting to charge in to rescue. And 0:39:10.719 --> 0:39:14.320 yet you see this this bridle being held back, this 0:39:14.840 --> 0:39:17.880 restraining you know, being pulled back to where it's just 0:39:18.040 --> 0:39:21.640 it's straining against it. You know, it's straining with every 0:39:21.880 --> 0:39:26.600 every bit of its strength. And you pull the scope 0:39:26.600 --> 0:39:32.960 back and realize that the horse is actually itself restraining itself. 0:39:33.440 --> 0:39:37.719 It is actually holding itself back, pulling against wanting to 0:39:37.800 --> 0:39:41.400 charge in. But for reasons that we won't understand this 0:39:41.520 --> 0:39:46.319 side of heaven, that that restraining is actually the the 0:39:46.600 --> 0:39:49.760 you know, the horse itself, and that for me somehow, 0:39:49.920 --> 0:39:55.000 is just this incredible picture of Okay, God, everything you know, 0:39:55.320 --> 0:39:58.520 in his goodness and his love wants to charge in. 0:39:58.719 --> 0:40:02.840 And he has ultimately charged in and rescued and conquered 0:40:02.880 --> 0:40:06.080 death in the grave and you know, as Tim Keller says, 0:40:06.120 --> 0:40:09.759 you know, entered into you know, the darkness of death 0:40:09.920 --> 0:40:11.799 and blew a hole out of the backside of it. 0:40:11.840 --> 0:40:14.400 So it has been done. But we're still in that 0:40:15.120 --> 0:40:17.800 and then already in the not yet a fully understanding 0:40:17.760 --> 0:40:22.600 and recognizing that, and for reasons right now that we 0:40:22.880 --> 0:40:28.680 cannot understand, wouldn't be able to God restrains himself in 0:40:28.760 --> 0:40:31.440 some way that I don't understand the theology of it. 0:40:31.480 --> 0:40:33.520 I'm sure there are plenty of theologians that could probably 0:40:33.520 --> 0:40:35.560 do a lot better job of explaining that. But for me, 0:40:35.640 --> 0:40:38.879 that was that was something to be able to hold 0:40:38.920 --> 0:40:41.120 on to and and be able to bring in with 0:40:41.200 --> 0:40:45.400 all of those why questions and be able to say God, ultimately, uh, 0:40:45.719 --> 0:40:49.880 it is it comes down to I will will I 0:40:49.920 --> 0:40:51.920 trust you. I either trust you or I don't. And 0:40:52.000 --> 0:40:55.040 I'm going to all the all the chips are going 0:40:55.080 --> 0:40:56.960 on that side of the table. I'm just gonna I'm 0:40:56.960 --> 0:41:02.240 gonna trust you. And and as you know, my family 0:41:02.239 --> 0:41:05.840 and I have done that. We've continued daily, three steps forward, 0:41:06.040 --> 0:41:09.400 two steps back, sometimes thirty steps back, you know, in 0:41:09.440 --> 0:41:12.920 that process. And God's good and faithful and kind in 0:41:12.960 --> 0:41:15.279 that in that journey as we kind of hobble on. 0:41:16.400 --> 0:41:19.440 But He has continued to meet us and and you know, 0:41:19.560 --> 0:41:22.600 in our journey, and I believe he does, you know, 0:41:22.760 --> 0:41:25.239 and for all of us in all of our journeys. 0:41:25.640 --> 0:41:26.360 It's beautiful. 0:41:26.440 --> 0:41:30.680 I think that the idea of hobbling well is so 0:41:30.840 --> 0:41:34.400 potent it's so potent. That's going to be my phrase. 0:41:35.480 --> 0:41:35.880 I hobble. 0:41:35.920 --> 0:41:37.920 I don't know about well, but I want to hobble. 0:41:37.960 --> 0:41:40.080 That's that's the thing, that's the goal is just it's 0:41:40.120 --> 0:41:42.279 not to not hobble, but it can it can we hobble? Well, 0:41:42.320 --> 0:41:43.920 that's what my son was saying. I believe is I 0:41:43.960 --> 0:41:46.040 look at my family. You know, we're beat up, we 0:41:46.120 --> 0:41:48.120 got war, you know, war wounds all over us. You 0:41:48.120 --> 0:41:50.440 know we're hobbling. But you know we got that limp 0:41:50.560 --> 0:41:52.640 that we're going to carry. But he said, I look 0:41:52.680 --> 0:41:55.120 at my family, and I think I think, by God's 0:41:55.160 --> 0:41:55.960 grace for hobbling. 0:41:56.080 --> 0:41:57.480 Well, and we'll keep. 0:41:57.760 --> 0:42:04.480 And as a father myself, I think I've learned that 0:42:04.600 --> 0:42:06.719 a lot of the lens of my understanding, the very 0:42:06.760 --> 0:42:11.239 limited understanding I have, comes from with my sons, with 0:42:11.280 --> 0:42:14.239 my daughters, and I think of the verse. God will 0:42:14.239 --> 0:42:16.239 permit the right just to stumble, but he won't let 0:42:16.239 --> 0:42:16.680 them fall. 0:42:16.800 --> 0:42:17.560 Yes, that's good. 0:42:17.640 --> 0:42:21.600 And my son, if I just do everything from him, 0:42:21.640 --> 0:42:26.040 protect him from everything, it's not helpful, it's not It 0:42:26.080 --> 0:42:30.520 doesn't help him become a great man. And although it's 0:42:30.560 --> 0:42:32.880 sometimes like you know, when he was younger, he would 0:42:33.080 --> 0:42:34.960 jump off the bed try it too, and I'd be 0:42:35.040 --> 0:42:37.120 right there and I'd stop him and save him every time. Yeah, 0:42:37.440 --> 0:42:40.080 but then I realized, no, this, I can't do this 0:42:40.120 --> 0:42:41.879 for the rest of his life. And so I don't 0:42:41.880 --> 0:42:43.440 want him to hurt himself. I don't want him to 0:42:43.760 --> 0:42:45.680 do a reversible damage. But at the same time, maybe 0:42:45.680 --> 0:42:48.359 I'll just let him feel it a little bit and 0:42:48.480 --> 0:42:52.880 guess what, It helped him realize certain things that without 0:42:52.960 --> 0:42:54.520 if I had just been there all the time. And 0:42:54.560 --> 0:42:57.080 so I think God is close to the broken hearted one. 0:42:57.239 --> 0:42:59.880 I think two that he loves us enough. This is 0:43:00.200 --> 0:43:03.480 really hard thing to understand, but consider it pure joy 0:43:03.480 --> 0:43:06.959 when you face trials of many kinds, because through perseverance, 0:43:06.960 --> 0:43:09.880 there's a maturity and a completion that's happening in you. 0:43:09.920 --> 0:43:13.840 There's a process that's happening through the hobble that I 0:43:13.880 --> 0:43:17.640 couldn't get otherwise, and that's kindness. And I understand that 0:43:17.680 --> 0:43:19.920 as a father, but as a son, I didn't get it. 0:43:20.200 --> 0:43:22.440 I didn't get it, and so when it's happening to me, 0:43:22.960 --> 0:43:26.040 I'm like, God, why, And that's part of it. It's like, 0:43:26.680 --> 0:43:29.319 trust me, son, I know what I'm doing, and I 0:43:29.320 --> 0:43:32.000 say that to my boy all the time, and every 0:43:32.000 --> 0:43:34.080 time I'm like, God, why, and it's just like, trust me, 0:43:34.080 --> 0:43:38.239 I know what I'm doing, and I think that is beautiful. 0:43:38.560 --> 0:43:39.280 It's hard. 0:43:39.680 --> 0:43:46.040 It's just this constant, this relationship. There's certain elements that 0:43:46.239 --> 0:43:51.480 require that exists, that have to exist in a relationship 0:43:51.520 --> 0:43:54.760 to be a relationship. One of them is trust. Another 0:43:54.800 --> 0:43:57.640 one is that we have to have free choice. You 0:43:57.680 --> 0:44:00.600 can't have a real relationship if it's if you don't 0:44:00.600 --> 0:44:03.239 have free choice, and so out of the flow and 0:44:03.320 --> 0:44:06.800 effects of that. And that's why I do believe that questions, 0:44:06.840 --> 0:44:09.319 back to the knocking on the hearts, the questions that 0:44:09.360 --> 0:44:11.600 we have are so important to lean in. God's not 0:44:11.640 --> 0:44:15.359 afraid of your why. When my son asked me why, Dad, 0:44:15.400 --> 0:44:17.759 I'm like, I give him the right answer. He might 0:44:17.840 --> 0:44:19.799 not like the right answer, but I'm like, Hey, trust me, 0:44:21.320 --> 0:44:24.440 I love you. I'm for you. I love you more 0:44:24.480 --> 0:44:27.640 than you ever understand. And I think God, God says 0:44:27.680 --> 0:44:29.319 that to me every time I cry out, I'm like God, 0:44:29.320 --> 0:44:31.120 you see it in David in the Psalms back to that, 0:44:31.520 --> 0:44:35.640 It's like God and God comforts him just Hey, I 0:44:35.640 --> 0:44:37.360 know you don't get it, but just trust me. This 0:44:37.440 --> 0:44:40.719 is an important part of a real relationship. This makes 0:44:40.719 --> 0:44:42.400 it real, the fact that I don't just give you 0:44:42.400 --> 0:44:43.080 all the answers. 0:44:43.080 --> 0:44:44.200 So man, it's beautiful. 0:44:44.800 --> 0:44:47.400 Well, as we wrap up, I just I'm curious to know, 0:44:47.520 --> 0:44:50.400 is there anything specific we can pray for you about 0:44:50.400 --> 0:44:52.840 in this season that you're in or walking into or 0:44:52.880 --> 0:44:53.560 walking out of. 0:44:54.920 --> 0:44:55.439 Thank you? 0:44:55.440 --> 0:44:59.360 You know, I'm really my brad Mary Beth and I 0:44:59.360 --> 0:45:03.839 have forty one years married in just a few weeks now, 0:45:03.880 --> 0:45:10.759 I guess about a month. And we've actually done the unthinkable. 0:45:10.760 --> 0:45:13.080 For many years, we've been approached about would you guys 0:45:13.239 --> 0:45:15.840 write a book together. She shared her story and her 0:45:15.920 --> 0:45:18.840 journey in a beautiful way in a book called Choosing 0:45:18.880 --> 0:45:22.120 to See After We Lost our daughter, But it kind 0:45:22.120 --> 0:45:24.560 of her whole life story of you know, ended up 0:45:24.600 --> 0:45:27.799 marrying a musician when she really probably would have much 0:45:27.880 --> 0:45:30.719 rather married an accountant or someone who you know, had 0:45:30.719 --> 0:45:33.879 a much more stable life and all that that's been 0:45:34.000 --> 0:45:37.480 like for her And then me, I wrote a memoirs, 0:45:37.719 --> 0:45:39.799 a book a few years ago of my journey and 0:45:39.920 --> 0:45:43.239 just all of that. But we always have resisted because 0:45:43.280 --> 0:45:46.080 our journey, our journey together has been you talk about 0:45:46.120 --> 0:45:49.440 hobbling a boy, oh boy, we have. It's been a 0:45:49.600 --> 0:45:52.759 it's been a hobbled journey. And yet here we are, 0:45:53.440 --> 0:45:56.200 in fact books called still here, because by God's grace, 0:45:56.239 --> 0:46:00.360 we're still here after these many years, and and so 0:46:00.480 --> 0:46:03.000 thankful for it. Same way we've we've been sharing kind 0:46:03.000 --> 0:46:06.040 of our story and our our our our journey, and 0:46:06.040 --> 0:46:09.080 we've always resisted writing a book that might be looked 0:46:09.080 --> 0:46:12.480 at as a marriage book because we we honestly feel 0:46:12.520 --> 0:46:13.120 like we could. 0:46:13.520 --> 0:46:15.920 We can write a book on here's what not to do, 0:46:16.040 --> 0:46:17.640 but the two do books that. 0:46:17.719 --> 0:46:20.200 Mostly line the shelves of you know, the love languages 0:46:20.239 --> 0:46:22.880 and all these things, do these things which are really helpful, 0:46:23.160 --> 0:46:25.080 you know in some ways for a lot of people, 0:46:25.400 --> 0:46:27.480 we don't. We don't have that story where like we 0:46:27.520 --> 0:46:29.279 can just tell you all the things, the ways that 0:46:29.320 --> 0:46:32.200 we've messed it up, and somehow God has been faithful, 0:46:32.239 --> 0:46:35.080 and it's kind of like about two pages, we screwed 0:46:35.120 --> 0:46:36.480 it up, and God's faithful. 0:46:36.560 --> 0:46:37.439 There's our there's our. 0:46:37.320 --> 0:46:41.880 Book, that's the Bible, the Bible is not to do. 0:46:42.040 --> 0:46:45.000 And then and then God, God is grace, is merciful 0:46:45.000 --> 0:46:48.080 and gracious. So we decide, well, we'll do this and 0:46:48.080 --> 0:46:50.480 and uh, you know, I think this season of life, 0:46:50.520 --> 0:46:53.399 just to answer your question, we just we our our 0:46:53.440 --> 0:46:57.280 hope is we would seward you know, well this season now, 0:46:58.080 --> 0:47:01.000 with all of the you know, the battles, gars and 0:47:01.040 --> 0:47:03.000 the good and the bad and the ugly, you know, 0:47:03.160 --> 0:47:07.359 we have again, by the grace of God, seven little 0:47:07.400 --> 0:47:10.080 people call me Popops and her Grammy. They are the 0:47:10.120 --> 0:47:12.920 great joys of our lives. Those are seven new chapters 0:47:13.200 --> 0:47:15.440 in our life story. God has given us, you know, 0:47:15.560 --> 0:47:19.080 in the last eighteen years to give us, you know, 0:47:19.120 --> 0:47:22.080 that wind in our sails, that laughter in our hearts again. 0:47:22.200 --> 0:47:25.160 And so just we want to share that, you know 0:47:25.440 --> 0:47:29.160 that in a really faithful way, and just steward this 0:47:29.280 --> 0:47:32.840 season of life, you know, in a good way. Just 0:47:33.040 --> 0:47:37.880 enjoy each other and what God's given us together. Also, 0:47:38.160 --> 0:47:40.000 you know, our work with Show Hope, we see the 0:47:40.000 --> 0:47:43.800 opportunities greater than they've ever been for the church to 0:47:43.880 --> 0:47:45.799 really you know, the mission of show Hope is to 0:47:46.080 --> 0:47:49.239 engage the church to care for orphans and reduce the 0:47:49.280 --> 0:47:52.839 barriers to adoption. And we are given opportunities to do 0:47:52.920 --> 0:47:55.759 that in ways we never imagined. And so we just 0:47:55.800 --> 0:47:59.280 want to keep being faithful with that we see opportunities. 0:47:58.600 --> 0:47:59.640 For that ahead. 0:48:00.360 --> 0:48:02.200 We don't have the energy we had when we were 0:48:02.440 --> 0:48:05.320 you know, started this, you know, thirty years ago or whatever, 0:48:05.360 --> 0:48:08.319 twenty five years ago, but we still have a lot 0:48:08.400 --> 0:48:10.640 of energy, and we have a little bit more wisdom 0:48:10.640 --> 0:48:13.120 maybe than we did then. So just stewarding all of 0:48:13.120 --> 0:48:16.719 that well is probably the prayer we would ask for 0:48:17.120 --> 0:48:19.640 them as we continue to hobble on. 0:48:19.920 --> 0:48:21.520 All right, well, I'm going to pray us out and 0:48:21.560 --> 0:48:22.880 then we will wrap things up. 0:48:22.920 --> 0:48:23.799 Amazing, Thank you. 0:48:24.160 --> 0:48:26.319 Dear heavenly Father. Lord. We just say thank you for 0:48:26.400 --> 0:48:29.680 these microphones and the conversations that we've had through them, Lord, 0:48:29.760 --> 0:48:32.320 and that everything that is coming out of our voice 0:48:32.440 --> 0:48:35.399 is just honoring you, and we just say thank you 0:48:35.480 --> 0:48:39.320 for that opportunity. God. We're just praying over Stephen today 0:48:39.400 --> 0:48:42.839 and his family, him and Mary Beth as they enter 0:48:42.920 --> 0:48:45.960 this new season and this new book. God, we just 0:48:46.000 --> 0:48:48.120 pray that you would help them to steward this next 0:48:48.160 --> 0:48:51.440 season well, that you would give them joy, that you 0:48:51.480 --> 0:48:54.640 would give them just sweet moments with their grandkids and 0:48:54.680 --> 0:48:57.720 their children. Lord, that you would just open their hearts 0:48:57.719 --> 0:49:01.000 to know you, and that these new seasons, these new 0:49:01.160 --> 0:49:03.120 bits of life, Lord, they would just get to know 0:49:03.200 --> 0:49:03.760 you better. 0:49:04.400 --> 0:49:04.640 God. 0:49:04.680 --> 0:49:07.600 We just we pray over show hope, and we just 0:49:07.680 --> 0:49:11.680 asked that you supernaturally just continue to bless this mission Lord, 0:49:11.760 --> 0:49:14.640 and as as it continues to grow, and as that 0:49:14.719 --> 0:49:17.799 could it continues to require more focus and more time 0:49:17.880 --> 0:49:20.760 and energy. God, I just pray over Steven and Marybeth 0:49:20.800 --> 0:49:23.279 that you would give them supernatural energy to be able 0:49:23.320 --> 0:49:26.640 to put their their wisdom in it, their energy in it, 0:49:26.680 --> 0:49:29.239 their lives in it, Lord, and you would just use 0:49:29.280 --> 0:49:31.440 it to continue to bless so many lives. 0:49:32.000 --> 0:49:32.239 God. 0:49:32.280 --> 0:49:34.480 We just say thank you again for this podcast in 0:49:34.560 --> 0:49:38.319 these microphones, and we just we're grateful for you and 0:49:38.800 --> 0:49:41.319 the mission behind this too. In your heavenly name. We 0:49:41.320 --> 0:49:42.160 pray Amen. 0:49:42.880 --> 0:49:43.280 Amen. 0:49:45.200 --> 0:49:50.760 That's such a legacy Father, like annoying on your life. 0:49:51.960 --> 0:49:55.160 And I just want to say that this generation is 0:49:55.200 --> 0:49:59.760 starving for fathers. And I really pray over this book 0:50:00.320 --> 0:50:04.680 and this whole next season just for the total blessing, 0:50:04.840 --> 0:50:08.319 because there's still here. There's not many fathers that are 0:50:08.360 --> 0:50:10.600 still here, Yeah, there's not. There's not many people who've 0:50:10.880 --> 0:50:11.680 walked with. 0:50:11.680 --> 0:50:16.680 A hobble and kept the faith for the fight and 0:50:16.920 --> 0:50:18.000 finished the race. 0:50:17.800 --> 0:50:20.680 You know, and the longevity is there, and so just 0:50:20.680 --> 0:50:23.239 thank you, I honor you, thank you for the longevity 0:50:23.400 --> 0:50:25.840 and just the humility and meekness of your life. 0:50:26.680 --> 0:50:28.520 Thank you Venue, thank you