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Speaker 1: Hey, I'm Stephen Curtis Chapman. I just would take my

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Speaker 1: daughter back if I had the option. You hobble with

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Speaker 1: that reality. You experience God in it, you experience healing

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Speaker 1: in it, and it's the already, it's that. Not yet,

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Speaker 1: you're still waiting for the ultimate wiping of every tear

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Speaker 1: from your eyes.

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Speaker 2: And this is the upload.

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Speaker 3: We're very grateful that you're joining us on the upload today.

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Speaker 3: Stephen Curtis Chapman is here, and I just want to

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Speaker 3: open by saying, you know you've written, you've sung about

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Speaker 3: faith for decades. You strip it all down, beyond music,

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Speaker 3: beyond all of the awards, beyond all of that. What

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Speaker 3: does the word faith mean to you today?

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Speaker 2: Wow?

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Speaker 1: Good question. I mean the word faith first first word

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Speaker 1: that comes to mind. I guess if it's if this

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Speaker 1: is a word association game or quiz is survival? You know?

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Speaker 2: I mean faith is.

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Speaker 1: The only way that I know we survive. You know,

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Speaker 1: this world, fallen world that we are in. Jesus says,

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Speaker 1: in this world you will have trouble, you know, and

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Speaker 1: all of us know that at our own different you know,

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Speaker 1: different degrees and different levels of of that. The longer

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Speaker 1: we live the deeper uh, into that you know, troubled

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Speaker 1: world we find ourselves, and the deeper the trouble seems

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Speaker 1: to get. And yet surviving that, you know is I

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Speaker 1: don't know any other way, certainly from my own experience

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Speaker 1: and my families and things that we've walked through, apart

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Speaker 1: from faith in uh, you know, in in a God

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Speaker 1: who we have experienced to be with us in those

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Speaker 1: places and sustain us, you know, through that. So that's

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Speaker 1: that's the first word that pops into my mind when

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Speaker 1: you when you ask that.

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Speaker 2: Question, man.

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Speaker 3: And faith is such a cool and like loaded word too,

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Speaker 3: because it just the word can and the meaning can

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Speaker 3: change in so many different aspects of your life. If

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Speaker 3: whatever season you're going through, the trials that you're going through,

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Speaker 3: faith really is a survival tool, or it would be

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Speaker 3: whipped for you helping someone else survive something else. It's yeah,

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Speaker 3: it's amazing.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of I'm in the middle of a tour

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Speaker 1: right now, kind of re visiting an album that I

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Speaker 1: did twenty five years ago, well twenty six ish, you're

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Speaker 1: un yeah, but it was counting twenty five, twenty six

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Speaker 1: whatever it takes, called Speechless, and the whole theme of

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Speaker 1: that of that album, you know, and it's just been

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Speaker 1: so cool to get to revisit it because it was,

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Speaker 1: you know, I was twenty five years younger, and I

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Speaker 1: was at a place in life where, you know, a

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Speaker 1: lot of things had good, bad, ugly, you know, all

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Speaker 1: that had happened. But to even get to revisit those

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Speaker 1: songs and the truths of some of the songs that

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Speaker 1: I wrote and recorded on that album, Be Still and

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Speaker 1: Know that I Am God, you know, so I'm forty

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Speaker 1: six ten. That was a song that was on that album.

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Speaker 1: Just the whole concept of being you know, speechless. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of written around this phrase that my pastor

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Speaker 1: and I were talking about. He used the words gospel astonishment,

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Speaker 1: being so astonished at the message of the Gospel that

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Speaker 1: we are stunned, even guys like us who love words,

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Speaker 1: because he, my pastor, Scottie Smith and dear friend, is

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Speaker 1: the only guy I know who loves to use words

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Speaker 1: more than me. He makes up words actually in his sermons.

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Speaker 1: Half the time I go look it up, like, wait, man,

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Speaker 1: that's not gospelicious. That's one of his favorite words he

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Speaker 1: throws out all the time. That's gospelicious. You know that's

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Speaker 1: you know, it's that those kind of things that he

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Speaker 1: throws around, and but He's like, you know this, if

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Speaker 1: we really, you know, get a just a glimpse of

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Speaker 1: the goodness of you know, and the enormity of the

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Speaker 1: love and the grace of God for us, it would

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Speaker 1: it would you know, render even guys like us who

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Speaker 1: use so many words, you know, speechless, we don't have

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Speaker 1: words for it. And and so I think, you know,

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Speaker 1: just even getting to revisit all of that has just

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Speaker 1: even deepened again my understanding of faith and looking back

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Speaker 1: at the journey and getting to sing those songs and

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Speaker 1: just kind of be stunned all over again at the

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Speaker 1: goodness of you know, of God is faithfulness and the

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Speaker 1: pain on the journey, and yet how He has sustained

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Speaker 1: my family and me on our journey.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, I'm curious, looking back over your life, maybe

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Speaker 3: share a moment where you first felt like faith was

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Speaker 3: real to you, not something that you were taught or

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Speaker 3: something that you learned, where you just you just kind

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Speaker 3: of grabbed a hold of it and you're like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: this is it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, I mean the first memory of that first

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Speaker 1: thing that comes to mind when you ask that question,

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Speaker 1: is I had seen a transformation to my family as

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Speaker 1: a result of faith in Jesus and my parents who'd

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Speaker 1: grown up around church and actually dragged a church every

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Speaker 1: Sunday because that's what you do in the buckle of

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Speaker 1: the Bible belt where they grew up in Kentucky and so,

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Speaker 1: but but it kind of moved away from it a

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Speaker 1: little bit, you know, in their teenage years, especially my

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Speaker 1: dad and so I grew up in a home that

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Speaker 1: was a little crazy, you know, my dad and mam

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Speaker 1: was sixteen when she married my dad. Dad had an

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Speaker 1: alcoholic father who was never He left home when my

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Speaker 1: dad was a baby, and so he never knew his father,

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Speaker 1: and so he grew up without a dad in his

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Speaker 1: life or really any father figure. So that resulted in

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Speaker 1: you know, just you know kind of what it would.

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Speaker 1: You know, he's a great still a great man and

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Speaker 1: new truth and knew and would say I still felt

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Speaker 1: like I knew, knew the Lord and wanted his presents

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Speaker 1: in my life, but I was just wandering. And so

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Speaker 1: he married my mom. My brother came along very shortly

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Speaker 1: after they got married, and she was still I think

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Speaker 1: seventeen when he was born, and so they was young

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Speaker 1: and it was a little crazy, and I grew up

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Speaker 1: in a lot of conflict and a lot of fights,

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Speaker 1: and there was just a lot of shame on my

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Speaker 1: dad and a lot of you know, just confusion. And

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Speaker 1: when I was about seven years old, my parents both

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Speaker 1: as a result of a there's a revival going on

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Speaker 1: in our little Baptist church there in Paduka, Kentucky, where

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Speaker 1: I grew up, all of that Baptist church. And as

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Speaker 1: God would orchestrate it, my mom, who had been going

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Speaker 1: to church every Sunday because that's what you do, dragging

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Speaker 1: me and my brother to church, she got my dad

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Speaker 1: to go for that revival and by the end of

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Speaker 1: that week, I just I saw transformation in my own home.

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Speaker 1: And it was very real, even to my seven year

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Speaker 1: old little self, because I just saw, you know, when

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Speaker 1: the fights would start to blow up, or when you'd

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Speaker 1: feel the attention and the conflict and you'd kind of,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'd start to get afraid.

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Speaker 2: My dad would.

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Speaker 1: Stop and say, hey, wait a minute, we got to pray,

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Speaker 1: and we get on her knees together's family, and we'd pray,

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Speaker 1: and my dad would he didn't have really fancy prayers

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Speaker 1: he would just talk to God and say, God, I

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Speaker 1: don't know how to be a good dad. I don't

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Speaker 1: know how to be a husband. Will you please show me,

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Speaker 1: Please teach me. And so it's that humility and just

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Speaker 1: that sincerity of I really want to change. I want

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Speaker 1: this to change my life. And I saw it change

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Speaker 1: my mom and dad, and so I grew up kind

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Speaker 1: of watching that, and it was about It wasn't maybe

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Speaker 1: a year later, after seeing this transformation happening in my

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Speaker 1: home and in their lives, that we were sitting in

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Speaker 1: church together and.

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Speaker 2: In a very very real, clear way.

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Speaker 1: I'll still I remember it all my life that the pastor,

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Speaker 1: Brother David McMichael, was quoting a revelation at the end

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Speaker 1: of his sermon, and I didn't pay any attention to

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Speaker 1: anything he had said. But when he said these words,

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Speaker 1: Jesus says, I stand at the door and knock, and

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Speaker 1: if anyone would open the door, I'll come in. And

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Speaker 1: when he said those words, it was it was just

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Speaker 1: as clear as anything I'd ever experienced, that Jesus was

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Speaker 1: knocking at the door of my heart. My heart was

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Speaker 1: beating fast, and I was like, what is going on?

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Speaker 1: But what his words? Those words are real and Jesus

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Speaker 1: is now knocking at my heart and having seen the

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Speaker 1: transformation in my family, that was, you know the beginning

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Speaker 1: of my faith journey. And what I understood even then

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Speaker 1: with that was, you know, he was a King James guy,

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Speaker 1: as I like to say, he was the O G

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Speaker 1: King James. You know, Jess says I'll come in and

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Speaker 1: SUP with him. Of course he lost me on that.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know what SUP meant and I was kind

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Speaker 1: of looking like, what is that, you know, but he explained,

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Speaker 1: you know, supper meal relation. It's like a relationship is

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Speaker 1: like Jesus says, I want to come have a relationship

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Speaker 1: with you.

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Speaker 2: I don't.

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Speaker 1: I don't just want your Sunday mornings and your Sunday

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Speaker 1: you know, Sunday nights.

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Speaker 2: I want a moment by moment relationship with you.

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Speaker 1: And so that was for me the first of obviously

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Speaker 1: a lifetime of very real, tangible moments of my faith

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Speaker 1: becoming you know clear. But that was the first one.

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Speaker 4: I love that so much. I think the knocking on

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Speaker 4: the door of the hot you know, I think God

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Speaker 4: is knocking on everyone's hot you know. This week, my

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Speaker 4: nine year old boy, he knocked on his hot really

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Speaker 4: everything going on me and said, Dad, I want to

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Speaker 4: I want to stop reading the Bible every night. And

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Speaker 4: I'm like, all right, so let's do it.

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Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 4: I didn't have to make him. I didn't say, you know,

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Speaker 4: I was just like he came to me. I'm like,

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Speaker 4: that's the knocking, and we started reading. And two nights

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Speaker 4: later he said, Dad, I know God's real, but I

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Speaker 4: haven't ever asked him to be in my life seriously.

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Speaker 4: And so just hearing that story is making me emotional

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Speaker 4: because this week I saw that knocking and I saw

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Speaker 4: that door open in my nine year old boy, my

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Speaker 4: oldest son, and he just you know, we went through

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Speaker 4: and it was like, this is what it means, scripture

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Speaker 4: by scripture. Yeah, So for me, I think, what what

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Speaker 4: have you seen just in your own personal life as

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Speaker 4: a seven year old eight year old through that and

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Speaker 4: experiencing tension and seeing your parents on their knees when

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Speaker 4: they don't know what else to do. What does the

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Speaker 4: knocking look like even in your family, your kids' lives,

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Speaker 4: What's what's that look like?

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Speaker 2: Well?

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Speaker 1: I love that that story and of your your son,

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Speaker 1: you know, it is the way God will his spirit

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Speaker 1: will use you know, the things going on around us,

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Speaker 1: you know, the ways that it's part of the wonder

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Speaker 1: the mystery of God and his spirit. You know, like

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Speaker 1: the wind, you know, you know, Scripture says that, you know,

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Speaker 1: we can't see it coming and gone, we can't see

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Speaker 1: it moving. We feel the effects of it, you know,

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Speaker 1: we can see the effects of the wind. I saw

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Speaker 1: the effects of that in my parents at that point

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Speaker 1: in my life, and you know, I've watched it in

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Speaker 1: my own kids. My little girl Maria, who's with Jesus

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Speaker 1: now eighteen years she was five years old and getting

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Speaker 1: ready for school one morning, and this was a real

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Speaker 1: gift that the Lord gave us. When it was February

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Speaker 1: twentieth of two thousand and eight. She would go be

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Speaker 1: with Jesus in May of two thousand and eight, so

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Speaker 1: it was only a few months before an accident that

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Speaker 1: would take her life here on earth. And she was

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Speaker 1: getting her shoes on, getting ready for school, preschool, and

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Speaker 1: she went to this little preschool where they were learning

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Speaker 1: songs to get ready for their spring program, their graduation.

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Speaker 2: She's getting ready to.

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Speaker 1: Graduate from preschool, and she said she was sitting on

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Speaker 1: her on the floor of her mom getting her shoes on,

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Speaker 1: and she said, Mom, does God really have a big house?

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Speaker 1: And Mom said, yeah, yes, and as far you know,

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Speaker 1: from what I understand and in the Bible, and she said,

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Speaker 1: does it? Does it really have a lot of a

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Speaker 1: lot of rooms in it? And so my wife it triggered.

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Speaker 1: My wife knew she was learning a song, Big Big

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Speaker 1: House by a group Audio Adrenaline Buddies of mine that

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Speaker 1: I toured with, and I knew that song very well

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Speaker 1: and she knew it, and she so she kind of

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Speaker 1: keyed in that she's asking about this song because she's

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Speaker 1: learning this song it's a big, big house with lots

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Speaker 1: of lots of rooms, lots of lots of food, big

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Speaker 1: yard you can play football. So my wife kind of,

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Speaker 1: you know, tricked her and just said, yeah, it does

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Speaker 1: have a lot of and it has a lot of

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Speaker 1: food too, and there's a big yard where you can

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Speaker 1: play football or whatever you want, you know, and really

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Speaker 1: looked at her like, Mom, how did you know? You know?

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Speaker 1: And she said, you're learning a song, I bet, aren't

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Speaker 1: you for your preschool your little program? And she said yeah.

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Speaker 1: And and so Maria, five years old, said, I want

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Speaker 1: to go. I want to go to God's Big House.

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Speaker 1: I want to go see it. Can I go? And

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Speaker 1: so her mom in that moment, and I happened.

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Speaker 2: To be home. I wasn't on the road or anything.

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Speaker 2: She said.

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Speaker 1: She called me and said, Stephen, I think you should

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Speaker 1: come in here. Maria is asking some questions that I think,

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Speaker 1: you know, it would be interesting to have a conversation

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Speaker 1: with her. So I remember I sat her up on

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Speaker 1: the kitchen counter so we were kind of eye to

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Speaker 1: eye and just talk to her about, you know, you

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Speaker 1: want to go see God's Big House. And I said, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, we actually get to go there if we,

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Speaker 1: you know, as we trust Jesus to you know, to

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Speaker 1: take us. He's the way we get to, you know,

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Speaker 1: to God's Big House and the Father. And tried to

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Speaker 1: explain as best I could, and in my head, in

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Speaker 1: my stupid, you know, adult brain, I'm going she's way

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Speaker 1: too young. She doesn't understand that, she doesn't know what

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Speaker 1: she's asking. But far be it from me to shut

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Speaker 1: this down. I'm just gonna We're going to ride this

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Speaker 1: wave and see what you know. And I said, do

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Speaker 1: you want to talk to God and just you know,

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Speaker 1: and talk to Jesus and ask him to, you know,

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Speaker 1: let you come to his house and come into your

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Speaker 1: heart and you know, lead, lead you through life.

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Speaker 2: And she said yeah.

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Speaker 1: And so her sister Stevie Joy, also adopted from China,

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Speaker 1: who was only about six months older than her. She

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Speaker 1: hears us talking, she's getting ready to and she's like, well, I.

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Speaker 2: Want to go. I want to go too.

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Speaker 1: So then I've set her up on the counter and

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Speaker 1: kind of talk with her and we pray, and you know,

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Speaker 1: at the at the point, I'm like, God, only you

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Speaker 1: know what's going on really in her heart. But then,

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Speaker 1: of course, you know, a few months later, you know,

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Speaker 1: when when she would go be with Jesus. That was

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Speaker 1: one of those amazing gifts that God gave us, just

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Speaker 1: that sense of this is where she wanted to be.

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Speaker 1: This is you know, and with all the sadness and

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Speaker 1: the grief and you know, not sticking some you know,

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Speaker 1: big Bible band aid on, you know, that wound of

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Speaker 1: our soul that'll be there until we see Jesus and

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Speaker 1: her face again. You know, it was an incredible gift

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Speaker 1: and a comfort to us, you know, to just that

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Speaker 1: moment that Jesus clearly knocked on her heart and in

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Speaker 1: his sovereignty, knowing you know, what he knows, and so yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean there are the ways that he will use,

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Speaker 1: even you know, in your son's case. I mean, so

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Speaker 1: much that's going on in our world right now.

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Speaker 2: You know he is questions.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, those questions that will come, and and just the

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Speaker 1: door that that opens for us to have those kind

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Speaker 1: of conversations. I just believe that's the Holy Spirit at

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Speaker 1: work in all of these things.

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Speaker 3: I have to say, like hearing all of this, it's

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Speaker 3: so encouraging for me. I have a four year old

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Speaker 3: and a one year old, and we recently, while I

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Speaker 3: would say over a little over a month ago, we

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Speaker 3: put them in a Christian like mother's day out program.

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Speaker 3: So it's out of church. It's you know, you think

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Speaker 3: she's four years old, she doesn't know anything or whatever. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: And it's so it's so amazing to see her little

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Speaker 3: mind go, mom, we forgot to pray for our food,

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Speaker 3: and she'll hold her hands and she'll say say the prayer,

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Speaker 3: or she her stomach was feeling yucky one day this

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Speaker 3: past week and she climbs up into my lap and

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Speaker 3: she goes, Mommy, can you touch my belly? And ask

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Speaker 3: God to make it feel better. And I was just like,

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Speaker 3: it's like it's those small things that they're paying attention

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Speaker 3: and they're listening, and they are learning about the love

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Speaker 3: of Jesus and they're learning about his kingdom. And I

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Speaker 3: just think just in the midst of tragedy, thinking back

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Speaker 3: to that moment where you're like, that was that was

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Speaker 3: for a reason? You know what I mean, it's just

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Speaker 3: so encouraging.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And I love the knocking, you know, taking that

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Speaker 4: diverse in revelation and which is absolutely true for everyone.

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Speaker 4: You know, we say, God, shake toll, we say, but

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Speaker 4: I love it as questions. I wonder about this and

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Speaker 4: I think as kids, it's like my son's asking questions

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Speaker 4: all the time, why this?

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Speaker 2: What about this?

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Speaker 4: And understanding learning. Then you get a bit older and

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Speaker 4: the knocking, you know, it gets the questions are there,

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Speaker 4: but I'm less likely to ask the questions because I feel,

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Speaker 4: you know, pride or I feel like, you know, I

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Speaker 4: should know that. And I think just that's so encouraging

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Speaker 4: for me is to listen out and like you did,

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Speaker 4: a tune your attention to go, whether questions are lean in,

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Speaker 4: stop what I'm doing, focus in, and push through some

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Speaker 4: of the you know, maybe some of the barriers of

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Speaker 4: the subtleties in the questions, in the adults, in my

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Speaker 4: friends and people I do life that are around me

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Speaker 4: all the time and recognize them as that's God, the

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Speaker 4: Holy Spirit knocking on their heart, and to to tune

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Speaker 4: in and say, you know, hey, yeah, let's let's have

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Speaker 4: a conversation, Let's have a dialogue. I think with everything

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Speaker 4: going on right now, the world is so obviously binary.

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Speaker 4: I feel like there is such a more than it

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Speaker 4: ever has been before, a clear binary. Yeah, like it's

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Speaker 4: light and.

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Speaker 2: It's dark, so much division.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and the dialogue, if the questions are the knocking

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Speaker 4: of the Holy Spirit, how important it is to open

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Speaker 4: up the conversations and also posture ourselves in a way

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Speaker 4: to be able to have those conversations with people and

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Speaker 4: people to feel like they can ask.

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Speaker 1: And so we love our pastor and friend for so

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Speaker 1: many years Scatti Smith. He always talks about, you know,

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Speaker 1: we're we are not called to be the fourth member

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Speaker 1: of the trinity, you know, and so often I think

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Speaker 1: we feel like and especially that's what I think happens

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Speaker 1: with just you know, I have to convince you have

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Speaker 1: to you know, uh, you know, make sure that you

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Speaker 1: you know that you get it, and you know that

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Speaker 1: is the job of the Holy Spirit. Our job is

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Speaker 1: you know, have the conversations, you know, the questions, stay

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Speaker 1: just you know, staying uh, keeping wonder in it and

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Speaker 1: curiosity and you know, I love you know, there's a

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Speaker 1: you know, uh G. K.

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Speaker 2: Chesterton.

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Speaker 1: You know he talks about you know that that we're

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Speaker 1: the ones who grow old because we have sinned and

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Speaker 1: and we actually grow. God is infinitely young, and he

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Speaker 1: never grows tired of doing again and again the things

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Speaker 1: that show us his goodness, his love. Every morning, you know,

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Speaker 1: he talks about the sun to you know, God says

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Speaker 1: to the sun, do it again, do it again, you know,

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Speaker 1: and every you know, every night you know, the moon,

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Speaker 1: do it again. You know, come, and just that sense

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Speaker 1: of that God in the same way that God is

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Speaker 1: always knocking, He's always he's you know, he's given us,

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Speaker 1: you know, he's he's always revealing himself, you know, around

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Speaker 1: us in conversations and in nature and and always knocking.

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Speaker 1: If we just can have a child likeness enough and

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Speaker 1: humility to hear and listen and receive what it is

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Speaker 1: that he's.

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Speaker 2: Saying I.

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Speaker 3: Just keep thinking about people who are watching that might

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Speaker 3: not necessarily know the love of Jesus or might not

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Speaker 3: understand it is a better way to say it. But

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Speaker 3: walking through such a hard time in your life of

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Speaker 3: losing a child is one of the most unimaginable things,

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Speaker 3: you know, a parent can walk through. In those moments,

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Speaker 3: did God ever feel far away from you? Did you

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Speaker 3: ever have those questions of like you know, the why,

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Speaker 3: and those feelings of just grief?

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Speaker 2: Oh?

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Speaker 1: Yes, I mean you can't begin to you know. I

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Speaker 1: will say it this way is probably the best way

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Speaker 1: to try to answer that and explain it. You know,

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Speaker 1: I had always loved the psalms, and especially as a musician,

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Speaker 1: you know, and a Christian musician, the psalms are, you know,

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Speaker 1: just your go to. It's like this is the og,

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Speaker 1: you know, this is it. But like so many I think,

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Speaker 1: you know, you gravitate towards your love is better than life,

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Speaker 1: better as one day your courts. I mean, we sing

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Speaker 1: the songs that are all over the you know, modern

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Speaker 1: worship songs, all of those, you know, great declarations of

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Speaker 1: the love of God and the grace of God. I

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Speaker 1: had never really probably just skipped over the hard, you know.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, but I don't what's the how long?

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Speaker 2: O Lords?

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Speaker 1: And all of those things you know that are and

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Speaker 1: you not until walking through this that are really you know,

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Speaker 1: recognize and come to realize that most many of those celebrated,

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Speaker 1: you know, beautiful declarations that we make in our worship

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Speaker 1: songs actually come in the very same verse or the

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Speaker 1: very same passage in chapter you know, after the how long,

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Speaker 1: O Lord?

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Speaker 2: Are you going to forget me forever? You know?

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Speaker 1: And then there's this turn of soul? Why are you

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Speaker 1: so downcast?

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Speaker 2: Within me? Hope in God?

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Speaker 1: It's like the Psalmist is, you know, is giving us

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Speaker 1: this incredible The whole process of this is where a

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Speaker 1: lot of life is going to be lived.

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Speaker 2: How long? Oh Lord?

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Speaker 1: This makes no sense. I don't get it. You're I'm

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Speaker 1: off the radar. If you even exist, you know, then

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Speaker 1: I guess you've forgotten me clearly, you know, And I'll

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Speaker 1: just grant you that you exist. But you forgot me

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Speaker 1: and and my plight and my pain and all of

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Speaker 1: that and what's so amazing? And I didn't I will

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Speaker 1: say that I really didn't understand so much of the

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Speaker 1: Psalms until walking through this, and suddenly those verses became

437
00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:36,879
Speaker 1: life for me because I was so desperate for someone

438
00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:41,040
Speaker 1: who you know, could enter into that pain, you know

439
00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:44,280
Speaker 1: with me and say and I suddenly those those were

440
00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:47,399
Speaker 1: that gave me, you know, voice to the things that

441
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:50,200
Speaker 1: I was feeling, that distance and that and that how

442
00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:54,399
Speaker 1: long you know, oh Lord, thing that we feel in

443
00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:58,200
Speaker 1: those moments of God. I just I can't imagine this ever,

444
00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:05,520
Speaker 1: ever being anything thing other than just absolute you know, sadness, uh,

445
00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:11,320
Speaker 1: just you know, pain. And and yet what I have

446
00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:15,080
Speaker 1: learned from that and still learning is that, you know,

447
00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:18,600
Speaker 1: I'm so thankful, aren't we all as people faith that

448
00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:23,080
Speaker 1: God didn't edit out in the Bible what most of

449
00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:25,320
Speaker 1: us would have edited out of a book if we

450
00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:28,679
Speaker 1: were having it written about us and our our you know,

451
00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:30,879
Speaker 1: faith that we created would be, oh, don't put that

452
00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:35,119
Speaker 1: in there. You know, God, you know, absolutely, uh, you know,

453
00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:39,720
Speaker 1: inspired all of that to be included, because those are

454
00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:43,160
Speaker 1: you know, when we are so desperate to have that,

455
00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:45,919
Speaker 1: those you know, those places where what you know, what

456
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:50,480
Speaker 1: the Psalmist teaches us that he did right, that he

457
00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:53,840
Speaker 1: got right in all of that, is that every at

458
00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:57,040
Speaker 1: every point he is bringing all of that and pouring

459
00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:01,000
Speaker 1: it out, you know, to God, and you know the confusion,

460
00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:05,359
Speaker 1: the sadness, the grief. You know, job is the same,

461
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:07,520
Speaker 1: you know, we get all of that and then this

462
00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:11,720
Speaker 1: just resolution and for me, and I remember it very clearly,

463
00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:15,919
Speaker 1: and I've told this, shared this before, but you know

464
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:19,479
Speaker 1: when when we first lost our daughter, and I remember

465
00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:24,879
Speaker 1: just at the hospital, Vanderbilt Children's Hospital, receiving the news

466
00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:31,439
Speaker 1: that that she hadn't survived, and just feeling this what

467
00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:34,000
Speaker 1: I call a black hole of despair. It just felt

468
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,320
Speaker 1: like what I understand a black hole to be. It's

469
00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:40,080
Speaker 1: just it sucks everything into it and and and at

470
00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:42,639
Speaker 1: that point it ceases to be and I remember just thinking,

471
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:47,000
Speaker 1: I I am being sucked into this, and I don't

472
00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:50,800
Speaker 1: think there's ever a I don't there won't be another

473
00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:53,719
Speaker 1: come out the other side. This is just gonna, you know,

474
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:57,359
Speaker 1: just take take me. And I would start to feel

475
00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:01,800
Speaker 1: being kind of sucked into that black hole of hopelessness,

476
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:07,000
Speaker 1: and then just again, by by God's grace, I would

477
00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:09,600
Speaker 1: take a breath and all that would come to mind

478
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:14,200
Speaker 1: is Blessed be your name. You give and you take away,

479
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:16,920
Speaker 1: Blessed be your name. And there was a song my

480
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:20,400
Speaker 1: dear friend Matt Redmond had written that I knew that

481
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:23,719
Speaker 1: song and I would just try to sing it, squeak

482
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:27,760
Speaker 1: it out whatever I could get out, and and when

483
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:32,440
Speaker 1: I would do that, it's like my next breath. I could,

484
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:34,760
Speaker 1: I could breathe, but it's like I just taken my

485
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:37,840
Speaker 1: last breath, but I just took enough to get out.

486
00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:40,480
Speaker 1: Blessed be your name, you give you take away, but

487
00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:43,199
Speaker 1: I'm gonna. I'm gonna bless your name. I'm gonna worship you,

488
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:44,879
Speaker 1: And all of a sudden, I take a breath. I

489
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:47,280
Speaker 1: was like, whoa, I got. I got breath back in

490
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:50,600
Speaker 1: my lungs now for just a few more steps, you know,

491
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 1: and then start to feel that black hole pull me in,

492
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:56,600
Speaker 1: and then it'd be that again. I'm gonna, I'm gonna

493
00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:01,560
Speaker 1: choose to trust you, bless your name, worse you. And

494
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:05,120
Speaker 1: in that same sense of those psalms, it was just like, God,

495
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:07,240
Speaker 1: this is what I feel. I'm gonna pour this out

496
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:09,720
Speaker 1: to you, But so why are you?

497
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:10,240
Speaker 2: So? You know?

498
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:12,119
Speaker 1: I got this picture all of a sudden as I

499
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:14,640
Speaker 1: was reading those songs that the psawmist is literally pounding

500
00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 1: on his own chest, going, come on heart, you know,

501
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:20,439
Speaker 1: beat soul, Why are you so downcast? Remember what is?

502
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:23,520
Speaker 1: It's true? It is, this is all true. It's crazy.

503
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:29,400
Speaker 1: The world is completely going nuts right now in our situation.

504
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 1: Our pain is so real and true and I don't

505
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:34,040
Speaker 1: know how we're going to survive it. That's all true.

506
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 1: But what's what I'm gonna choose to believe is most

507
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:42,920
Speaker 1: true is that God, you were faithful, you were good,

508
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:45,720
Speaker 1: you were with us, And as crazy as that even

509
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:47,679
Speaker 1: sounds to say it out loud right now, I'm going

510
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 1: to keep declaring it and saying And the more we did,

511
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:55,400
Speaker 1: the more I felt that oxygen come back into my lungs.

512
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:58,880
Speaker 1: And it was that daily, breath by breath, step by

513
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:02,359
Speaker 1: step process, especially in the early you know, days and

514
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:08,400
Speaker 1: hours of that, and God has just been faithful. And

515
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:11,600
Speaker 1: we still have days, as we all do, and we

516
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:14,520
Speaker 1: as a family still carry that broken heart, and some days,

517
00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 1: you know, my bride will just still be so angry.

518
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:20,879
Speaker 2: And I just don't get it. I still don't get it.

519
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:23,520
Speaker 1: You know, there's so many other ways God could have

520
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:28,720
Speaker 1: done all these wonderful things other than this way. And

521
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 1: yet I'm gonna keep I'm gonna trust you God, and.

522
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:37,480
Speaker 4: I love David as a man after God's own heart.

523
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:43,280
Speaker 4: He's known, and as I'm hearing you share, I can't

524
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:46,560
Speaker 4: help but think, like, God loves us so much. He

525
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:50,920
Speaker 4: loves David, he loves you so much. He's wanting honesty,

526
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:53,919
Speaker 4: you know, He's wanting not just the polished, not the

527
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:58,160
Speaker 4: well rehearsed facade. And we sometimes I feel like we've

528
00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:01,399
Speaker 4: got to come and like he's this this big you know,

529
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:05,240
Speaker 4: I've got to be all dressed up button. But God's wanting,

530
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:07,439
Speaker 4: as you see in the Psalms, he's wanting. He's just

531
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:10,360
Speaker 4: wanting you your heart, the honesty. And in the garden

532
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,199
Speaker 4: when Adam and Eva, he's like where are you?

533
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:14,240
Speaker 2: Why are you hiding?

534
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:18,119
Speaker 4: He's like, hey, it's okay. And shame keeps us, you know,

535
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:21,000
Speaker 4: the pain of everything we're going through keeps us hidden.

536
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:23,439
Speaker 4: But God saying, hey, I can handle your honesty. I

537
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:26,560
Speaker 4: love you that much. And to see that, and that's

538
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:30,040
Speaker 4: that's really hard, is too I feel like to be

539
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:34,120
Speaker 4: that honest and raw. But reading the Psalms, you go, oh, man,

540
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:37,119
Speaker 4: this is God's heart, is that he just wants to

541
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:40,800
Speaker 4: know you in that way. And so to hear to

542
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:44,119
Speaker 4: hear that so encouraging and just for many people that

543
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 4: you know, when you're reading the Bible, it's like, I

544
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:48,920
Speaker 4: don't I've got to get to a certain point first.

545
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:50,000
Speaker 2: I've got to get you know.

546
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:52,920
Speaker 4: But God say, no, wherever you're at, doesn't matter where

547
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:55,439
Speaker 4: your outcomers you are, no matter how much it hurts,

548
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 4: no matter what you're going through, the loss of a

549
00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:01,280
Speaker 4: daughter bro unimaginable, but just shit, tell God this is

550
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:03,840
Speaker 4: this is what I'm feeling, and let him heal that.

551
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 2: Do you feel like post.

552
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:09,919
Speaker 4: Now how many eighteen years you say, do you feel

553
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:13,639
Speaker 4: like from a healing perspective? You say, there's moments and

554
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 4: there's times where you still struggle, you're still angry. What

555
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:20,240
Speaker 4: where do you feel like from a healing perspective?

556
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:26,080
Speaker 2: Is the is the goal? Is that?

557
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:30,399
Speaker 4: Where do you explain to me the theology or the

558
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 4: thoughts or the wrestles with the level of healing of that.

559
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:36,240
Speaker 4: Do you feel like, man, you're looking for total healing.

560
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 4: Do you feel like it's a part of just the

561
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:42,400
Speaker 4: story and the scar that God's using Because I wrestle

562
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:46,600
Speaker 4: with that, I wrestle with like God, full healing, partial healing, scars,

563
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:48,720
Speaker 4: open wounds, That's.

564
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 1: Something we we say it was my son actually who

565
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 1: who have to give credit to him for this freeze

566
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 1: when he talks about our family, because my son's uh

567
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:05,560
Speaker 1: Caleb and Will are now are now adults. They were

568
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 1: you know, teenage guys, junior senior in high school when

569
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:13,320
Speaker 1: that when that happened, and so you know, journeying through

570
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:16,600
Speaker 1: that together as a family. The impact that losing their

571
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 1: little sister had on them obviously incredible impact on them

572
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:27,240
Speaker 1: as well. And uh, my son Caleb in an interview

573
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 1: they do music as well. Their band Colony House. Shout out,

574
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 1: uh a little shameless plug for the greatest rock band

575
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:34,400
Speaker 1: on the planet. If you want to listen to the

576
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:38,040
Speaker 1: greatest rock band ever since the history of the of

577
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:40,760
Speaker 1: of you know, the world, Uh, check out Colony House.

578
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 1: Amazing songwriter, my son and drummer Will Franklin, his brother

579
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 1: and her other son. But he was talking in an

580
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 1: interview about our family and how have you guys, you know,

581
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 1: processed this and you know, because there, I mean, there

582
00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:00,040
Speaker 1: was a there was there were many moments in and

583
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 1: you know, in the earliest days where we really felt like, gosh,

584
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 1: I don't think we will ever. I don't think it'll

585
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:11,600
Speaker 1: ever be feel appropriate to laugh again. I'd hear laughter,

586
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:14,600
Speaker 1: you know, in those early days in some part of

587
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 1: the room, and I think, man, I don't think I'll

588
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:20,840
Speaker 1: ever my heart will ever be light again to feel

589
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 1: it is appropriate to even laugh, because there's this weird

590
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 1: thing with grief, at least in our case, and you know,

591
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 1: it's stuff you wrestle with, like to honor the loss

592
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:31,720
Speaker 1: and the pain and our daughter and her memory and

593
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 1: her life. It will never be, you know, okay, to laugh,

594
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:38,680
Speaker 1: because that would somehow dishonor this this depth of sadness

595
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 1: and pain that we carry. We will carry with us

596
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 1: until you know, until we see her her face and

597
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 1: Jesus face. And then with time, you know, God does

598
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 1: give you back that gift of laughter, you know. With music,

599
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 1: and a lot of music that I'd written, I thought

600
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:57,720
Speaker 1: I can't ever imagine, you know, standing on a stage

601
00:30:57,760 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 1: in your hat that says saddle up or following the

602
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:01,840
Speaker 1: Lord to song that people that listen to my music

603
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 1: over the years know well called The Great Adventure that

604
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:07,640
Speaker 1: is written actually at the time from a pretty dark

605
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 1: place where God just met me with his grace in

606
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 1: a way that made me go wow, Okay, this is

607
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 1: like God is calling us on an adventure.

608
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:16,280
Speaker 2: Let's go.

609
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:18,960
Speaker 1: It's gonna go mountains, it's gonna go valleys. It's gonna

610
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 1: be hard, it's gonna be harder than you ever thought.

611
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 1: But I will be with you, and I'll be leading you.

612
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:25,680
Speaker 1: And this is an adventure of following me. Will you

613
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:28,800
Speaker 1: come with me? And so that song was written out

614
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:31,360
Speaker 1: of that, but it became this, you know, summer camp

615
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 1: theme song for you know, everybody just you know, fisting

616
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 1: there like let's go, I'd love your horses. And so

617
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 1: I thought, will it ever be okay to play that

618
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:41,600
Speaker 1: song again? Because you know that song is full of

619
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:45,720
Speaker 1: you know, just joy and passion and let's go and

620
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:49,080
Speaker 1: and you know, so with with time, Yes, I was

621
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:51,520
Speaker 1: in singing that song now and it took on a

622
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:54,080
Speaker 1: whole new meaning. You know, so many of the lyrics

623
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 1: that you know I had already written, all of a sudden, Okay,

624
00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 1: these now even mean more. I can sing these with

625
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 1: a greater conviction and and all of that. But my

626
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 1: my son was asked in this thing about you know,

627
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 1: how's your family, uh, you know, doing and and all

628
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:12,240
Speaker 1: of that, and he used this phrase, says you know

629
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:17,240
Speaker 1: we we hobble, but I think we hobble well. And

630
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:19,480
Speaker 1: it's it's kind of that same thing of we we

631
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:23,280
Speaker 1: have been crippled, you know by this we uh, we're

632
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 1: not you know, the full healing I believe, certainly for

633
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:31,160
Speaker 1: us is not going to come until you know, we

634
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:34,800
Speaker 1: see Jesus uh, and until the day he finishes wiping

635
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 1: every tear from our eyes. I mean, verses like you know,

636
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:43,160
Speaker 1: Jesus Wept became so like one of the most powerful,

637
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 1: precious verses in all of Scripture. You know, where when

638
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:47,800
Speaker 1: I was a kid, that was just kind of almost

639
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:49,880
Speaker 1: the that was the memory verse if you got called

640
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:51,920
Speaker 1: on and you know, Sunday schools, like anybody got a

641
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 1: Bible verses, I got one Jesus. You know, it was

642
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 1: almost more of like a you know that I didn't

643
00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 1: again and begin to understand the enormity of that story

644
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:02,239
Speaker 1: to hear Jesus is knowing I'm gonna raise Lazarus from

645
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:04,239
Speaker 1: the dead. I'm gonna turn this whole thing around. It's

646
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:07,480
Speaker 1: gonna end up in a crazy party before this.

647
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:08,080
Speaker 2: Day is over.

648
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:11,360
Speaker 1: But my friend Lazarus is going to die again, you know,

649
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 1: this side of heaven, I mean this isn't you know,

650
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 1: this isn't heaven. This is a final resurrection. But I'm

651
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:18,720
Speaker 1: going to raise him from the dead. But still Jesus

652
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 1: stood there with his friends and entered into that moment

653
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 1: of grief and sadness and raged at death and wept

654
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 1: with his friends. And that has you know, I think

655
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:32,120
Speaker 1: we are living in what C. S. Lewis calls the

656
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:36,160
Speaker 1: shadow lands. You know, we're living with these broken stories

657
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 1: and broken hearts and even the healing you know that

658
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 1: comes carries with it. I mean, for years, we we've

659
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:46,240
Speaker 1: got to operate through the work my wife and I

660
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 1: are part of advocating for orphans and adoption called Show Hope.

661
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 1: We got to work for ten years in China, very

662
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:55,760
Speaker 1: specifically at a place that cared for children that have

663
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 1: some severe medical special needs. And the place was built

664
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,400
Speaker 1: and honor and named after our daughter, Maria, was called

665
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 1: Maria's Big House of Hope, named after her, you know

666
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:10,040
Speaker 1: entrance into you know, into the Kingdom by this song

667
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:11,880
Speaker 1: Big House, and we thought, well, let's call it Maria's

668
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:13,960
Speaker 1: Big House of Hope. It's where she wanted to be.

669
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:18,400
Speaker 1: And we had to care for thousands of children for

670
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:21,839
Speaker 1: about ten years because of things with governments and all

671
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:24,880
Speaker 1: things that have changed in recent years, it became impossible

672
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:27,439
Speaker 1: for us to continue that work. But for ten years

673
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:32,440
Speaker 1: we got to see many, many children healed, put in

674
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:35,440
Speaker 1: you know, into families, adopted children that weren't going to survive.

675
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:38,319
Speaker 1: Many that did pass away, but they passed away with

676
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:42,680
Speaker 1: dignity and with care and someone loving them and you know,

677
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:45,520
Speaker 1: weeping for them. And so it was a beautiful place

678
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:47,840
Speaker 1: that you know, that carried our daughter's name, and we

679
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:50,680
Speaker 1: saw the beauty of that. It's like that is an amazing,

680
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:54,160
Speaker 1: beautiful thing that that came, the beauty from these ashes.

681
00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 1: But even that carried with it a sadness that we

682
00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:02,160
Speaker 1: wish selfishly this place didn't even exists, because my wife

683
00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:03,960
Speaker 1: would say, if she was sitting here, I won't I

684
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:06,560
Speaker 1: would if God gave me the choice, I'm sorry and

685
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 1: I'll you know, lightning strike me. I just would take

686
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:12,080
Speaker 1: my daughter back if I had the option. So you

687
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:15,239
Speaker 1: carry that's the hobble. You hobble with that reality. And

688
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 1: yet God, you know, you experience God in it, you

689
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 1: experience healing in it, and it's the already it's that.

690
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:23,359
Speaker 1: Not yet you're still waiting for the ultimate, you know,

691
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:25,880
Speaker 1: wiping of the tear, every tear from your eyes.

692
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 4: Yeah.

693
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:30,520
Speaker 3: I think hearing all of this, it just reminds me

694
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:33,080
Speaker 3: of how we're not supposed to do this alone, right,

695
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:37,839
Speaker 3: How we're not supposed to handle the grief we can't. Yes,

696
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:40,359
Speaker 3: that's why he asks us to cast, you know, all

697
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:42,759
Speaker 3: of our fears, all of our worries, all of our anxieties,

698
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:45,000
Speaker 3: everything on him, because we're just we're just not meant

699
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 3: to carry it on our own. And I think it

700
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:52,520
Speaker 3: is almost such a beautiful depiction of that, because you

701
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:54,960
Speaker 3: are going to hobble until you see her face again,

702
00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:58,440
Speaker 3: you know. And I just think that that reminder of

703
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:02,440
Speaker 3: we can't do this alone. It's just it's definitely something

704
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:06,120
Speaker 3: that I keep thinking of throughout this and thinking of

705
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:08,760
Speaker 3: somebody that's listening right now who has lost a child

706
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:12,600
Speaker 3: or lost a spouse or someone they love. What would

707
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:14,920
Speaker 3: you say to them as they walk through grief?

708
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:16,880
Speaker 2: Oh?

709
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:21,480
Speaker 1: Wow, Well, just first of all, one of the you know,

710
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:25,440
Speaker 1: the great challenges. One of the great I believe lies

711
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:31,279
Speaker 1: that the enemy of goodness and all things beautiful that

712
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:36,640
Speaker 1: reflect the heart of God would whisper lies of you

713
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:40,200
Speaker 1: are alone. You're the only person who has ever ever

714
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:43,919
Speaker 1: hurt this way? And how dare God, you know, put

715
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:48,520
Speaker 1: you through this all of those those kinds of voices.

716
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 1: And in fact, I mean just because I've put all

717
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:56,960
Speaker 1: these thoughts in song lyrics, it's weird to say I

718
00:36:57,000 --> 00:36:59,440
Speaker 1: wrote this song lyric like, listen to the song, not

719
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:01,640
Speaker 1: that it all just the You know that there was

720
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:05,080
Speaker 1: a lyric in a song that I wrote, Don't Lose Heart.

721
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:08,759
Speaker 1: You know that says you know, here's having it's another

722
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:11,520
Speaker 1: sleepless night. You're praying hope comes with the morning light.

723
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:14,040
Speaker 1: Right now, right now, you're feeling like you've lost his fight.

724
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:17,400
Speaker 1: Fear is screaming out your name. You say, God help me,

725
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:20,640
Speaker 1: and you wonder if he's even listening. The truth is

726
00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:23,279
Speaker 1: I've wondered the very same thing. So you don't have

727
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:26,279
Speaker 1: to feel ashamed. Let me walk through this with you

728
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:28,960
Speaker 1: and tell you all that I've learned to be true,

729
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:31,120
Speaker 1: don't be don't lose heart. And it's but to your

730
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:33,160
Speaker 1: point of we just we need we need each other,

731
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:36,759
Speaker 1: We need, you know, others to come around us and

732
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 1: remind us of what is true. That God is with us,

733
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:44,040
Speaker 1: that he is faithful, and for reasons that we cannot

734
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:46,759
Speaker 1: understand because you ask the question why do you ask?

735
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:49,399
Speaker 1: Do you ask the question? Why do you wrestle with that? Absolutely?

736
00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:54,239
Speaker 1: And we have learned you know that there's that's there's

737
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:57,359
Speaker 1: not shame in that that God Again the wonderful thing

738
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:00,439
Speaker 1: about scripture about the Psalms, that God never said, don't

739
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:02,799
Speaker 1: you don't you dare ask? Why don't you dare question me?

740
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:04,920
Speaker 1: You know that is not the heart of our father?

741
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:07,920
Speaker 1: You know, we we begin to understand. It's probably the

742
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:11,919
Speaker 1: most amazing picture that someone gave me. And in fact,

743
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:15,400
Speaker 1: they gave me a literal picture of physical picture that

744
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 1: they founded this. And as I was wrestling with, you know,

745
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:22,719
Speaker 1: all of the questions and continue to with God, why

746
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:25,799
Speaker 1: why didn't you step in? Why don't you step in

747
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:28,560
Speaker 1: in these moments? Because if I believe you are good

748
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:32,680
Speaker 1: and and you know, all powerful, all present, you know,

749
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:37,600
Speaker 1: I just can't. I can't understand that and don't understand it,

750
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:40,720
Speaker 1: And no I won't, but I'm still going to wrestle

751
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:44,960
Speaker 1: with those questions of why. And he gave me this

752
00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 1: visual of a horse that is with all of its

753
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:57,400
Speaker 1: strength just straining to charge in too, you know, to

754
00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:01,840
Speaker 1: a situation to rescue and you can see just the

755
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 1: the intensity and the eyes, you know, of this powerful,

756
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:10,640
Speaker 1: strong animal just wanting to charge in to rescue. And

757
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:14,320
Speaker 1: yet you see this this bridle being held back, this

758
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:17,880
Speaker 1: restraining you know, being pulled back to where it's just

759
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:21,640
Speaker 1: it's straining against it. You know, it's straining with every

760
00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:26,600
Speaker 1: every bit of its strength. And you pull the scope

761
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:32,960
Speaker 1: back and realize that the horse is actually itself restraining itself.

762
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:37,719
Speaker 1: It is actually holding itself back, pulling against wanting to

763
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:41,400
Speaker 1: charge in. But for reasons that we won't understand this

764
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:46,319
Speaker 1: side of heaven, that that restraining is actually the the

765
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:49,760
Speaker 1: you know, the horse itself, and that for me somehow,

766
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 1: is just this incredible picture of Okay, God, everything you know,

767
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 1: in his goodness and his love wants to charge in.

768
00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:02,840
Speaker 1: And he has ultimately charged in and rescued and conquered

769
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:06,080
Speaker 1: death in the grave and you know, as Tim Keller says,

770
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:09,759
Speaker 1: you know, entered into you know, the darkness of death

771
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:11,799
Speaker 1: and blew a hole out of the backside of it.

772
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:14,400
Speaker 1: So it has been done. But we're still in that

773
00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:17,800
Speaker 1: and then already in the not yet a fully understanding

774
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:22,600
Speaker 1: and recognizing that, and for reasons right now that we

775
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:28,680
Speaker 1: cannot understand, wouldn't be able to God restrains himself in

776
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:31,440
Speaker 1: some way that I don't understand the theology of it.

777
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:33,520
Speaker 1: I'm sure there are plenty of theologians that could probably

778
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:35,560
Speaker 1: do a lot better job of explaining that. But for me,

779
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:38,879
Speaker 1: that was that was something to be able to hold

780
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:41,120
Speaker 1: on to and and be able to bring in with

781
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:45,400
Speaker 1: all of those why questions and be able to say God, ultimately, uh,

782
00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:49,880
Speaker 1: it is it comes down to I will will I

783
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:51,920
Speaker 1: trust you. I either trust you or I don't. And

784
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:55,040
Speaker 1: I'm going to all the all the chips are going

785
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:56,960
Speaker 1: on that side of the table. I'm just gonna I'm

786
00:40:56,960 --> 00:41:02,240
Speaker 1: gonna trust you. And and as you know, my family

787
00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:05,840
Speaker 1: and I have done that. We've continued daily, three steps forward,

788
00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:09,400
Speaker 1: two steps back, sometimes thirty steps back, you know, in

789
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:12,920
Speaker 1: that process. And God's good and faithful and kind in

790
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:15,279
Speaker 1: that in that journey as we kind of hobble on.

791
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:19,440
Speaker 1: But He has continued to meet us and and you know,

792
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:22,600
Speaker 1: in our journey, and I believe he does, you know,

793
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:25,239
Speaker 1: and for all of us in all of our journeys.

794
00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:26,360
Speaker 2: It's beautiful.

795
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:30,680
Speaker 4: I think that the idea of hobbling well is so

796
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:34,400
Speaker 4: potent it's so potent. That's going to be my phrase.

797
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:35,880
Speaker 2: I hobble.

798
00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:37,920
Speaker 4: I don't know about well, but I want to hobble.

799
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 1: That's that's the thing, that's the goal is just it's

800
00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:42,279
Speaker 1: not to not hobble, but it can it can we hobble? Well,

801
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:43,920
Speaker 1: that's what my son was saying. I believe is I

802
00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:46,040
Speaker 1: look at my family. You know, we're beat up, we

803
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 1: got war, you know, war wounds all over us. You

804
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:50,440
Speaker 1: know we're hobbling. But you know we got that limp

805
00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:52,640
Speaker 1: that we're going to carry. But he said, I look

806
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:55,120
Speaker 1: at my family, and I think I think, by God's

807
00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:55,960
Speaker 1: grace for hobbling.

808
00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:57,480
Speaker 2: Well, and we'll keep.

809
00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:04,480
Speaker 4: And as a father myself, I think I've learned that

810
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:06,719
Speaker 4: a lot of the lens of my understanding, the very

811
00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:11,239
Speaker 4: limited understanding I have, comes from with my sons, with

812
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:14,239
Speaker 4: my daughters, and I think of the verse. God will

813
00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:16,239
Speaker 4: permit the right just to stumble, but he won't let

814
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:16,680
Speaker 4: them fall.

815
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:17,560
Speaker 2: Yes, that's good.

816
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:21,600
Speaker 4: And my son, if I just do everything from him,

817
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:26,040
Speaker 4: protect him from everything, it's not helpful, it's not It

818
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:30,520
Speaker 4: doesn't help him become a great man. And although it's

819
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:32,880
Speaker 4: sometimes like you know, when he was younger, he would

820
00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:34,960
Speaker 4: jump off the bed try it too, and I'd be

821
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:37,120
Speaker 4: right there and I'd stop him and save him every time. Yeah,

822
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:40,080
Speaker 4: but then I realized, no, this, I can't do this

823
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:41,879
Speaker 4: for the rest of his life. And so I don't

824
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:43,440
Speaker 4: want him to hurt himself. I don't want him to

825
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:45,680
Speaker 4: do a reversible damage. But at the same time, maybe

826
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:48,359
Speaker 4: I'll just let him feel it a little bit and

827
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:52,880
Speaker 4: guess what, It helped him realize certain things that without

828
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:54,520
Speaker 4: if I had just been there all the time. And

829
00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:57,080
Speaker 4: so I think God is close to the broken hearted one.

830
00:42:57,239 --> 00:42:59,880
Speaker 4: I think two that he loves us enough. This is

831
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:03,480
Speaker 4: really hard thing to understand, but consider it pure joy

832
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:06,959
Speaker 4: when you face trials of many kinds, because through perseverance,

833
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:09,880
Speaker 4: there's a maturity and a completion that's happening in you.

834
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:13,840
Speaker 4: There's a process that's happening through the hobble that I

835
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:17,640
Speaker 4: couldn't get otherwise, and that's kindness. And I understand that

836
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:19,920
Speaker 4: as a father, but as a son, I didn't get it.

837
00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:22,440
Speaker 4: I didn't get it, and so when it's happening to me,

838
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:26,040
Speaker 4: I'm like, God, why, And that's part of it. It's like,

839
00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:29,319
Speaker 4: trust me, son, I know what I'm doing, and I

840
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:32,000
Speaker 4: say that to my boy all the time, and every

841
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:34,080
Speaker 4: time I'm like, God, why, and it's just like, trust me,

842
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:38,239
Speaker 4: I know what I'm doing, and I think that is beautiful.

843
00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:39,280
Speaker 2: It's hard.

844
00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:46,040
Speaker 4: It's just this constant, this relationship. There's certain elements that

845
00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:51,480
Speaker 4: require that exists, that have to exist in a relationship

846
00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:54,760
Speaker 4: to be a relationship. One of them is trust. Another

847
00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:57,640
Speaker 4: one is that we have to have free choice. You

848
00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:00,600
Speaker 4: can't have a real relationship if it's if you don't

849
00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:03,239
Speaker 4: have free choice, and so out of the flow and

850
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:06,800
Speaker 4: effects of that. And that's why I do believe that questions,

851
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:09,319
Speaker 4: back to the knocking on the hearts, the questions that

852
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:11,600
Speaker 4: we have are so important to lean in. God's not

853
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:15,359
Speaker 4: afraid of your why. When my son asked me why, Dad,

854
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:17,759
Speaker 4: I'm like, I give him the right answer. He might

855
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:19,799
Speaker 4: not like the right answer, but I'm like, Hey, trust me,

856
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:24,440
Speaker 4: I love you. I'm for you. I love you more

857
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:27,640
Speaker 4: than you ever understand. And I think God, God says

858
00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:29,319
Speaker 4: that to me every time I cry out, I'm like God,

859
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:31,120
Speaker 4: you see it in David in the Psalms back to that,

860
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:35,640
Speaker 4: It's like God and God comforts him just Hey, I

861
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:37,360
Speaker 4: know you don't get it, but just trust me. This

862
00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:40,719
Speaker 4: is an important part of a real relationship. This makes

863
00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:42,400
Speaker 4: it real, the fact that I don't just give you

864
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:43,080
Speaker 4: all the answers.

865
00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:44,200
Speaker 2: So man, it's beautiful.

866
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:47,400
Speaker 3: Well, as we wrap up, I just I'm curious to know,

867
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:50,400
Speaker 3: is there anything specific we can pray for you about

868
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:52,840
Speaker 3: in this season that you're in or walking into or

869
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:53,560
Speaker 3: walking out of.

870
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:55,439
Speaker 2: Thank you?

871
00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:59,360
Speaker 1: You know, I'm really my brad Mary Beth and I

872
00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:03,839
Speaker 1: have forty one years married in just a few weeks now,

873
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:10,759
Speaker 1: I guess about a month. And we've actually done the unthinkable.

874
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:13,080
Speaker 1: For many years, we've been approached about would you guys

875
00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:15,840
Speaker 1: write a book together. She shared her story and her

876
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:18,840
Speaker 1: journey in a beautiful way in a book called Choosing

877
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:22,120
Speaker 1: to See After We Lost our daughter, But it kind

878
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:24,560
Speaker 1: of her whole life story of you know, ended up

879
00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:27,799
Speaker 1: marrying a musician when she really probably would have much

880
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:30,719
Speaker 1: rather married an accountant or someone who you know, had

881
00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:33,879
Speaker 1: a much more stable life and all that that's been

882
00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:37,480
Speaker 1: like for her And then me, I wrote a memoirs,

883
00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:39,799
Speaker 1: a book a few years ago of my journey and

884
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:43,239
Speaker 1: just all of that. But we always have resisted because

885
00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:46,080
Speaker 1: our journey, our journey together has been you talk about

886
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:49,440
Speaker 1: hobbling a boy, oh boy, we have. It's been a

887
00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:52,759
Speaker 1: it's been a hobbled journey. And yet here we are,

888
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:56,200
Speaker 1: in fact books called still here, because by God's grace,

889
00:45:56,239 --> 00:46:00,360
Speaker 1: we're still here after these many years, and and so

890
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 1: thankful for it. Same way we've we've been sharing kind

891
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:06,040
Speaker 1: of our story and our our our our journey, and

892
00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:09,080
Speaker 1: we've always resisted writing a book that might be looked

893
00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:12,480
Speaker 1: at as a marriage book because we we honestly feel

894
00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:13,120
Speaker 1: like we could.

895
00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:15,920
Speaker 2: We can write a book on here's what not to do,

896
00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:17,640
Speaker 2: but the two do books that.

897
00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:20,200
Speaker 1: Mostly line the shelves of you know, the love languages

898
00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:22,880
Speaker 1: and all these things, do these things which are really helpful,

899
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:25,080
Speaker 1: you know in some ways for a lot of people,

900
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:27,480
Speaker 1: we don't. We don't have that story where like we

901
00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:29,279
Speaker 1: can just tell you all the things, the ways that

902
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:32,200
Speaker 1: we've messed it up, and somehow God has been faithful,

903
00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:35,080
Speaker 1: and it's kind of like about two pages, we screwed

904
00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:36,480
Speaker 1: it up, and God's faithful.

905
00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:37,439
Speaker 2: There's our there's our.

906
00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:41,880
Speaker 4: Book, that's the Bible, the Bible is not to do.

907
00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:45,000
Speaker 1: And then and then God, God is grace, is merciful

908
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:48,080
Speaker 1: and gracious. So we decide, well, we'll do this and

909
00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:50,480
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, I think this season of life,

910
00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:53,399
Speaker 1: just to answer your question, we just we our our

911
00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:57,280
Speaker 1: hope is we would seward you know, well this season now,

912
00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:01,000
Speaker 1: with all of the you know, the battles, gars and

913
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:03,000
Speaker 1: the good and the bad and the ugly, you know,

914
00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:07,359
Speaker 1: we have again, by the grace of God, seven little

915
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:10,080
Speaker 1: people call me Popops and her Grammy. They are the

916
00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:12,920
Speaker 1: great joys of our lives. Those are seven new chapters

917
00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:15,440
Speaker 1: in our life story. God has given us, you know,

918
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:19,080
Speaker 1: in the last eighteen years to give us, you know,

919
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:22,080
Speaker 1: that wind in our sails, that laughter in our hearts again.

920
00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:25,160
Speaker 1: And so just we want to share that, you know

921
00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:29,160
Speaker 1: that in a really faithful way, and just steward this

922
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:32,840
Speaker 1: season of life, you know, in a good way. Just

923
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:37,880
Speaker 1: enjoy each other and what God's given us together. Also,

924
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:40,000
Speaker 1: you know, our work with Show Hope, we see the

925
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:43,800
Speaker 1: opportunities greater than they've ever been for the church to

926
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:45,799
Speaker 1: really you know, the mission of show Hope is to

927
00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:49,239
Speaker 1: engage the church to care for orphans and reduce the

928
00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:52,839
Speaker 1: barriers to adoption. And we are given opportunities to do

929
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:55,759
Speaker 1: that in ways we never imagined. And so we just

930
00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:59,280
Speaker 1: want to keep being faithful with that we see opportunities.

931
00:47:58,600 --> 00:47:59,640
Speaker 2: For that ahead.

932
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:02,200
Speaker 1: We don't have the energy we had when we were

933
00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:05,320
Speaker 1: you know, started this, you know, thirty years ago or whatever,

934
00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:08,319
Speaker 1: twenty five years ago, but we still have a lot

935
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:10,640
Speaker 1: of energy, and we have a little bit more wisdom

936
00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:13,120
Speaker 1: maybe than we did then. So just stewarding all of

937
00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:16,719
Speaker 1: that well is probably the prayer we would ask for

938
00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:19,640
Speaker 1: them as we continue to hobble on.

939
00:48:19,920 --> 00:48:21,520
Speaker 3: All right, well, I'm going to pray us out and

940
00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:22,880
Speaker 3: then we will wrap things up.

941
00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:23,799
Speaker 2: Amazing, Thank you.

942
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:26,319
Speaker 3: Dear heavenly Father. Lord. We just say thank you for

943
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:29,680
Speaker 3: these microphones and the conversations that we've had through them, Lord,

944
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:32,320
Speaker 3: and that everything that is coming out of our voice

945
00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:35,399
Speaker 3: is just honoring you, and we just say thank you

946
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:39,320
Speaker 3: for that opportunity. God. We're just praying over Stephen today

947
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:42,839
Speaker 3: and his family, him and Mary Beth as they enter

948
00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:45,960
Speaker 3: this new season and this new book. God, we just

949
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:48,120
Speaker 3: pray that you would help them to steward this next

950
00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:51,440
Speaker 3: season well, that you would give them joy, that you

951
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:54,640
Speaker 3: would give them just sweet moments with their grandkids and

952
00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:57,720
Speaker 3: their children. Lord, that you would just open their hearts

953
00:48:57,719 --> 00:49:01,000
Speaker 3: to know you, and that these new seasons, these new

954
00:49:01,160 --> 00:49:03,120
Speaker 3: bits of life, Lord, they would just get to know

955
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:03,760
Speaker 3: you better.

956
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:04,640
Speaker 1: God.

957
00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:07,600
Speaker 3: We just we pray over show hope, and we just

958
00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:11,680
Speaker 3: asked that you supernaturally just continue to bless this mission Lord,

959
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:14,640
Speaker 3: and as as it continues to grow, and as that

960
00:49:14,719 --> 00:49:17,799
Speaker 3: could it continues to require more focus and more time

961
00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:20,760
Speaker 3: and energy. God, I just pray over Steven and Marybeth

962
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:23,279
Speaker 3: that you would give them supernatural energy to be able

963
00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:26,640
Speaker 3: to put their their wisdom in it, their energy in it,

964
00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:29,239
Speaker 3: their lives in it, Lord, and you would just use

965
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:31,440
Speaker 3: it to continue to bless so many lives.

966
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:32,239
Speaker 4: God.

967
00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:34,480
Speaker 3: We just say thank you again for this podcast in

968
00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:38,319
Speaker 3: these microphones, and we just we're grateful for you and

969
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:41,319
Speaker 3: the mission behind this too. In your heavenly name. We

970
00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:42,160
Speaker 3: pray Amen.

971
00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:43,280
Speaker 2: Amen.

972
00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:50,760
Speaker 4: That's such a legacy Father, like annoying on your life.

973
00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:55,160
Speaker 4: And I just want to say that this generation is

974
00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:59,760
Speaker 4: starving for fathers. And I really pray over this book

975
00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:04,680
Speaker 4: and this whole next season just for the total blessing,

976
00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:08,319
Speaker 4: because there's still here. There's not many fathers that are

977
00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:10,600
Speaker 4: still here, Yeah, there's not. There's not many people who've

978
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:11,680
Speaker 4: walked with.

979
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:16,680
Speaker 2: A hobble and kept the faith for the fight and

980
00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:18,000
Speaker 2: finished the race.

981
00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:20,680
Speaker 4: You know, and the longevity is there, and so just

982
00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:23,239
Speaker 4: thank you, I honor you, thank you for the longevity

983
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:25,840
Speaker 4: and just the humility and meekness of your life.

984
00:50:26,680 --> 00:50:28,520
Speaker 2: Thank you Venue, thank you