Speaker 1: That's too kind of iconic movies that you're You're got
Speaker 1: a hand in here right back to back. Yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: two big eighties franchises that I've got to do. Like
Speaker 1: would tell people, like if I could tell my fourteen
Speaker 1: year old self that I was going to be in
Speaker 1: a Fletch movie and a top Gun movie, my fourteen
Speaker 1: year old self's head would have fallen off. Hi. I'm
Speaker 1: John Handon and I'm very happy to be here. Hello everybody,
Speaker 1: and yes I'm here. So that means it's time for
Speaker 1: a brand new episode of Off the Beat. As always,
Speaker 1: I'm your host, Brian baum Gartner. Today you just heard.
Speaker 1: I am so excited to be interviewing another icon of
Speaker 1: the TV industry. You know him, you love him, We
Speaker 1: all know him, the amazed John Ham. I mean, what
Speaker 1: can I say about John. He's hilarious, he's handsome, and
Speaker 1: he has truly had one of the most amazing careers
Speaker 1: in the game. You may know John from his iconic
Speaker 1: portrayal of the always dapper Don Draper, or maybe as
Speaker 1: Reverend Richard Wayne Gary Wayne in The Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt.
Speaker 1: I mean, he's done at all from teaching our very
Speaker 1: own Ellie Kemper in high school. That's right. There are
Speaker 1: people out there who got to have John Ham as
Speaker 1: a high school drama teacher to his latest pursuit of
Speaker 1: playing the nineteen eighties detective of his fourteen year old dreams.
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know why I'm building him up.
Speaker 1: You know who he is. I know you love him,
Speaker 1: as do I. So let's bring him on, shall we?
Speaker 1: The incredible John hamb I love it, Bubble and Quaker
Speaker 1: bubble and Quaker cookie at every moment left over from
Speaker 1: the natty people. What's up? John? There he is. How
Speaker 1: are you? I'm good man, How are you? I am
Speaker 1: so well. It's so good to see you. It's been
Speaker 1: a long time. It has been a minute. It's been
Speaker 1: a minute, I think the last time. Maybe not the
Speaker 1: last time, but uh, that I heard from you. You
Speaker 1: were you were looking through my house when I wasn't home. Yes,
Speaker 1: that that should be explained. I think we can just
Speaker 1: leave it at that. Actually all right, No, I heard.
Speaker 1: I got home. I was like, oh, John Hann was
Speaker 1: there your house today? And I was like, what did
Speaker 1: he go through my underwear drawer? Why was he? Why
Speaker 1: was he in there? T? D. T. B D. I
Speaker 1: see you have the is that the Burrows High School shirt? There? Yes,
Speaker 1: indeed John Burrows High School. St. Louis, Missouri, home and
Speaker 1: alma mater of myself and one Ellie kemper As. You know.
Speaker 1: That's right, so you I want to talk about that
Speaker 1: in a second. But you grew up in St. Louis right,
Speaker 1: born and raised St. Louis, Missouri. Yes, indeed, do you
Speaker 1: go back often? I wouldn't say often, especially obviously during
Speaker 1: the pandemic it was difficult, but you know, a couple
Speaker 1: of times a year for various functions and whatnots and
Speaker 1: my sister's both have grown up kids, so now they're
Speaker 1: starting to have kids. So it's that kind of thing
Speaker 1: or an occasion or a function. But other than that,
Speaker 1: it's I just don't get back that much. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: you still root for the sports teams, I know the Blues, Yes,
Speaker 1: that very much. I do. I've root for the teams.
Speaker 1: I'm excited for baseball season. This is all happening. So
Speaker 1: it's all happening. Um, you didn't really get into acting
Speaker 1: until college, is that right? I mean, yeah, I wasn't
Speaker 1: a child actor or anything like that, but I did
Speaker 1: you played Winnie the Pooh. I did, Yes, I did,
Speaker 1: thank you very much. It was excellent. That was in
Speaker 1: first grade. And then I did do some acting throughout
Speaker 1: high school, but it was more of a college thing.
Speaker 1: I got a scholarship to do it, which was very cool.
Speaker 1: I didn't have a lot of money, so that was
Speaker 1: a nice little way to augment my income or pay
Speaker 1: my bills. So yeah, So that that was at MISSOO.
Speaker 1: That was sort of the beginning of me being accepted
Speaker 1: as someone who could believably put a wig on and
Speaker 1: make people laugh or not. Is that what you like
Speaker 1: to do? Make people laugh when you started? Or did
Speaker 1: it not matter? I don't know. It kind of didn't matter.
Speaker 1: I really liked saying other people's words. I really liked plays,
Speaker 1: and I really liked reading things out loud, and I
Speaker 1: enjoyed the idea of interpreting people's words. And then like,
Speaker 1: when it became sort of a profession, I was like, WHOA,
Speaker 1: if you actually put some effort into this, this can
Speaker 1: be even more fun. Right. You went back to John
Speaker 1: Burrows High School and you taught drama for a while.
Speaker 1: As you mentioned, you taught Ellie Kemper in school. Now
Speaker 1: when you went back there to teach a drama, Did
Speaker 1: you think that was it for you? Or was that
Speaker 1: just a step. I was twenty four years old, so
Speaker 1: I was pretty young still, and I was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: this is like a job and a job that I'm
Speaker 1: excited to do and I really wanted to do for
Speaker 1: various reasons, most of which I had to do with
Speaker 1: the school that I went to. As you can probably
Speaker 1: tell some some wearing a T shirt and sitting in
Speaker 1: a chair that has the crest on it is pretty
Speaker 1: important to me in my life. And I was like,
Speaker 1: I really understood that this school gave a lot to me,
Speaker 1: right therefore, I wanted to be able to give something
Speaker 1: back to it, which I have done in the course
Speaker 1: of my career. As it is taken off, I've done
Speaker 1: a lot more. But at that point I was like, well,
Speaker 1: what I can really do is actually go back and
Speaker 1: teach and try to download some of my vastly accrued
Speaker 1: knowledge at twenty four to to these this next generation.
Speaker 1: And you know, I had some really great students. Ellie
Speaker 1: was one of them. You know, Ellie even back when
Speaker 1: she was fifteen years old and she was like a
Speaker 1: ninth grader, was just a hard worker and I real
Speaker 1: not competitive, but like achievement oriented spirit like, so I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, you're gonna be just fine, like you're
Speaker 1: you're a good kid, and you get it. And and
Speaker 1: she really liked acting and it was really fun for her.
Speaker 1: You could tell all of my kids that I had,
Speaker 1: except for the eighth graders, were all like they all
Speaker 1: chose to be in this class. So it was kind
Speaker 1: of like, well, if you didn't want to be here,
Speaker 1: you wouldn't have picked it. So and it was in
Speaker 1: brov and it was acting, it was scene study, and
Speaker 1: it was all that stuff. And I did it for
Speaker 1: a year and it was really fulfilling and fun and
Speaker 1: I very much enjoyed it. But no, it was It
Speaker 1: was not a thing that I was like, Oh, this
Speaker 1: is be the rest of my life. I'm gonna get
Speaker 1: married and have kids and I'm gonna settle in St.
Speaker 1: Louis and live five minutes from where I grew up.
Speaker 1: And I was like, I think I want to try
Speaker 1: something else, right, I have to go back on that
Speaker 1: for a second. You remember Ellie like you remember her
Speaker 1: as a student. Yeah, and her sister carry too. Yeah,
Speaker 1: of course I remember all my kids like for for
Speaker 1: the most part, but yeah, no, I definitely remember Ellie.
Speaker 1: She was She was just a really hard working, diligent,
Speaker 1: a cheap and oriented student who was very It was great.
Speaker 1: Like honestly, as a teacher, you're like, those are the
Speaker 1: kids that you only want, right So when did you
Speaker 1: reconnect with her? Do you remember seeing her again? Or yes,
Speaker 1: I do. She show it to college. That was five
Speaker 1: years later, and I was out here in l A.
Speaker 1: I had probably been working. I'm not sure if I
Speaker 1: was on Madman by that point, but she, I remember
Speaker 1: emailed me and said, I'm coming out. I went to
Speaker 1: this and I did this, and I've been doing this
Speaker 1: UCB and blah blah blah, and I'm coming out and
Speaker 1: I'm doing my one person show at UCB Theater. And
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, that's awesome. That's like
Speaker 1: five minutes away from my house. I'd love to come
Speaker 1: see it. That sounds great. And so I did. And
Speaker 1: I came backstage after the show and I was like,
Speaker 1: you were really great. That was awesome, you know it
Speaker 1: was there were twenty people in the audience, and She's like, Oh,
Speaker 1: I'm so excited. I got it. I have an audition
Speaker 1: tomorrow for the Office, and I said, well, I think
Speaker 1: you're going to get it because you are perfect for
Speaker 1: that show and this is like a perfect showcase for you.
Speaker 1: And the rest is history. That is crazy. Suffice to say,
Speaker 1: I do remember when I saw her. You do remember her?
Speaker 1: I I assume you were asked. I don't know if
Speaker 1: by her. How did it come to be that, Well,
Speaker 1: you played her captor then on Kemi Schmid years later.
Speaker 1: I did you keep in touch before then? Well? Yeah,
Speaker 1: actually we had done Bridesmaids together, right, so we had
Speaker 1: that sort of meeting again. And I remember being on
Speaker 1: the red carpet for that movie and looking over at
Speaker 1: Ellie and she caught my eye and I was like,
Speaker 1: this is so weird, and we both kind of laughed,
Speaker 1: and I think we gave each other hug and I
Speaker 1: was just like, I can't believe you. I'm like standing
Speaker 1: next to you on a red carpet at a major
Speaker 1: motion picture that we're both in. That's going to be
Speaker 1: a huge hit we didn't know at the time, but
Speaker 1: going to be sort of a cultural touch point for
Speaker 1: for many people. But it was nice, to say the least.
Speaker 1: But yes, I had kept up with her, and obviously
Speaker 1: because I knew a lot of you guys on the
Speaker 1: Office too, So like people maybe don't know this, but
Speaker 1: like you know, the the Awards Show kind of swirl,
Speaker 1: you know, had us in it for quite a few years,
Speaker 1: us being Madman, and then also the Office and Dirty Rock,
Speaker 1: and so we would see each other at a couple
Speaker 1: of occasions every every year for quite a few years.
Speaker 1: So I would run into her at those things, as
Speaker 1: well as you and b J and Mindy and Tina
Speaker 1: and Robert Carlock and all the thirty Rock gang. And
Speaker 1: and that's when I did the stretch I did on
Speaker 1: Dirty Rock after thirty Rock. And that's when Tina and
Speaker 1: Robert said, Hey, we're kicking around this idea. We really
Speaker 1: wanted to develop this thing for Ellie. Would you take
Speaker 1: a look at it? Would you consider it? And I
Speaker 1: was like, I don't know if I really want to
Speaker 1: be a go back right into serious television. They're like, no, no,
Speaker 1: you're in like one episode a year. I was like, oh, okay,
Speaker 1: that's first of all, how dare you. Second of all,
Speaker 1: let's stay let's take a look at it. And they
Speaker 1: were like, well, let's let us come pitch it. To you,
Speaker 1: and I was like, okay. At that stage of it,
Speaker 1: it was a pilot and the pilot was called Tooken
Speaker 1: t o O kay N. I was like, okay, what
Speaker 1: what and they're like, okay, you play a guy who
Speaker 1: kidnapped for women and kept them in an underground bunker.
Speaker 1: And it was literally like, let me finish. But it's funny,
Speaker 1: It's like so I was like, I mean, I trust
Speaker 1: you guys, but I mean really like a lot of
Speaker 1: weird stuff had just come out about people, and I
Speaker 1: was like, I don't know, man, I'm not sure I
Speaker 1: find the funny in this. But then I read it
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, it's really funny, and it's
Speaker 1: about the only way you get away with that is
Speaker 1: by playing this person as a complete and utter buffoon
Speaker 1: and totally out of the realm of believability. And it
Speaker 1: was really fun. I mean, playing that guy was so
Speaker 1: silly and so dumb, but so fun because it was
Speaker 1: so like Robert Carlock, who wrote the majority of the
Speaker 1: Reverend stuff, just got that dumb energy of like it's
Speaker 1: it's not even toxic masculinity, it's just stupid masculinity. It
Speaker 1: was really fun to do, and yeah, I mean it
Speaker 1: went for forever and we got to do that really
Speaker 1: fun Netflix choose your own adventure kind of thing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was really great. I was really really pleased with
Speaker 1: how it grew and how it ended and how it
Speaker 1: developed Titus character and Carol Kane's character. Like it was
Speaker 1: just like the best of shows, like your show. It
Speaker 1: became like watching a family grow, and like we watched
Speaker 1: the characters kind of go through their own stuff and
Speaker 1: you watch them figure their own stuff out, and by
Speaker 1: the end of it there better. Yeah, well said, so
Speaker 1: let's go back your teaching at John Burrows. When did
Speaker 1: you make the decision that you needed to go to
Speaker 1: l A. I remember they had asked me to consider
Speaker 1: doing another year at school, um, and I was like, well,
Speaker 1: I don't know, guys, Like I think I wanna try
Speaker 1: to see what can happen with this. And I just
Speaker 1: remember having this thought of like, well, I'm getting kind
Speaker 1: of old. Yeah, I'm like getting a little long in
Speaker 1: the tooth, which, by the way, nowadays is actually true.
Speaker 1: Like if you're not famous by fourteen on TikTok, give
Speaker 1: it up, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. Don't please don't, And
Speaker 1: also don't get famous on TikTok, but I was. I
Speaker 1: just had a sense of like, well, if not now,
Speaker 1: when And I could definitely see inertia settling in if
Speaker 1: I didn't at least try. And I remember one of
Speaker 1: my acting teachers a long time ago, even actually the
Speaker 1: guy went and taught underneath at Burrows, said like, what's
Speaker 1: the worst thing that can happen? If you try? You fail,
Speaker 1: so then fail again and fail better. Yeah, okay, that
Speaker 1: seems like a pretty good advice. And it is, like
Speaker 1: it really is, like I really think, especially nowadays, and
Speaker 1: especially how uncertain everything seems with the pandemic, with the
Speaker 1: complete devastation of social norms as it seems over the
Speaker 1: last few years, I think the idea of failing is
Speaker 1: so terrifying to people, and and in reality you're kind
Speaker 1: of like, and then you know what will happen, Like
Speaker 1: you'll fail at something and then my son is gonna
Speaker 1: rise and you're gonna get up and go get another
Speaker 1: job or not, or you know you're gonna make it work.
Speaker 1: It's an climbing mout everest every time. Sometimes it's just
Speaker 1: walking up a hill and you just have to put
Speaker 1: one ft in front of another and then all of
Speaker 1: a sudden you look back and you're like, look, how
Speaker 1: far up come? This is actually impressive. I'm impressed with myself, right,
Speaker 1: it is. You deserve credit, though, what do they say
Speaker 1: A bird in a hand? Like leaving something, Especially when
Speaker 1: you're in this business where it's so hard to get work,
Speaker 1: it's difficult to leave. I mean you were twenty four,
Speaker 1: I mean commed, I was working in the theater and
Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, I want to go to l A.
Speaker 1: I want to go to l OH but I have
Speaker 1: this job. It's really hard to say no, this is
Speaker 1: what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna go to l A.
Speaker 1: And leaving opportunities that you have is it's difficult. Well,
Speaker 1: I think there are there are inflection points, right obviously,
Speaker 1: and we all have them. Some of them happen earlier
Speaker 1: for us and some of them happened later. And I
Speaker 1: think the idea is in the best case scenario, and
Speaker 1: I think you can probably attest to this as well,
Speaker 1: having the ability to identify them. Right, So when you
Speaker 1: get an opportunity, you say, Okay, this is an opportunity,
Speaker 1: like I really want to take advantage of this, and
Speaker 1: I remember God, I mean When I came out here,
Speaker 1: I auditioned for everything and I got nothing. I was
Speaker 1: an extra in the pilot of the TV show The Practice,
Speaker 1: you know, I was up for Deep Impact. I didn't
Speaker 1: get it. Jon Favreau got it. And it was just
Speaker 1: one of those things of like coming so close to
Speaker 1: something and not getting it's coming so close to something
Speaker 1: and not getting it. And that happened over and over
Speaker 1: and over and over again. And I had success, and
Speaker 1: I had a couple of things that I got, and
Speaker 1: it was kind of climbing up that hill of loose
Speaker 1: gravel and sliding down and climbing back up and sliding down.
Speaker 1: But then I remember when Madman came around. I was like, Oh,
Speaker 1: this is like an inflection point. This is an actual
Speaker 1: thing that I could really do and really do well.
Speaker 1: And I think that I need to identify, like I
Speaker 1: have to like call it out and I have to
Speaker 1: be I have to get this. I just have to.
Speaker 1: I'm not a big believer in the secret or you know,
Speaker 1: manifesting your destiny or whatever that, but I was very
Speaker 1: much aware that I really did in a way that
Speaker 1: I hadn't identified any of these other opportunities or options
Speaker 1: that I really thought this was right for me, that
Speaker 1: I was going to be really good in this and
Speaker 1: it was going to be really important. And so yeah,
Speaker 1: that was when I was thirty five, so like there
Speaker 1: was ten years between me coming out here and me
Speaker 1: getting the thing that identified me to the greater population.
Speaker 1: It is what it is, and you have to go well,
Speaker 1: I have to identify those inflection points when they happen,
Speaker 1: and and then take advantage when they when they present themselves.
Speaker 1: I understand or I've heard that, like the Office mad
Speaker 1: Men was specifically looking for unknown actors. Is that right?
Speaker 1: Did you know that going in? I didn't know that
Speaker 1: going in, because I remember going to quite a few
Speaker 1: auditions and seeing everybody signing in and recognizing quite a
Speaker 1: few of the names on the signing sheet, and I
Speaker 1: remember hearing that they had offered it to this person
Speaker 1: and that person. Matthew has said, and I believe him
Speaker 1: that he when he met me, knew that I was
Speaker 1: the right person. And then had I think, had figured that, yes,
Speaker 1: this would be a much better way for an audience
Speaker 1: to perceive this show if they did not have a
Speaker 1: celebrity or somebody recognizable in the title role, like if
Speaker 1: it was Rob Low. Just to name a person as
Speaker 1: Don Draper, it would have been the Robb Blow Show.
Speaker 1: And that's that's exactly what he didn't want. He wanted
Speaker 1: it to be this show starring these people. And I
Speaker 1: think that that delivered well. Certainly not being colored with
Speaker 1: a specific personality. I mean it allows you to experience
Speaker 1: the character and more authentically well. And also, you know,
Speaker 1: it's one of the it's one of those things like
Speaker 1: we just don't really have that. I mean, we're starting
Speaker 1: to have it more. We didn't have it, I should
Speaker 1: say back then. We have it a lot more now
Speaker 1: when you see a show on Hulu or Netflix or
Speaker 1: we have so many more of those now because the
Speaker 1: selection and the choices are limitless at this point. You know,
Speaker 1: it's not thirty one flavors. It's like thirty one thousand flavors.
Speaker 1: So you can really dial into your specific palette. If
Speaker 1: I can extend that metaphor. It's a strange world. And
Speaker 1: I think Matt and I think Mike and Greg also
Speaker 1: kind of got it. It was like, we can't have
Speaker 1: super recognizable people, we can't stunt cast this thing. It's
Speaker 1: not gonna work. And if the market is amenable to
Speaker 1: letting people discover this in their own time, and we
Speaker 1: were definitely beneficiaries of that. Yeah, you said you read
Speaker 1: the role and you knew that it was for you.
Speaker 1: Why what was it about the role that you saw
Speaker 1: synonymous with yourself or knew that you were the perfect person.
Speaker 1: That's a good question. I just I just felt it.
Speaker 1: It's like Don was a kind of mysterious person. He
Speaker 1: was a smart person, but not you know, traditionally, you know,
Speaker 1: he didn't go to the all the right schools and
Speaker 1: the right things. He just kind of was he kind
Speaker 1: of knew people. That was Don's superpower was that he
Speaker 1: knew people right. He could read people. I said this
Speaker 1: about my father a lot, Like my dad could talk
Speaker 1: to anybody and he could listen to them. That's what
Speaker 1: I mean by talk to them. He wouldn't monologue at them.
Speaker 1: He would like engage in a conversation with them. And
Speaker 1: I always felt I had that gift, so that what
Speaker 1: I identified with Don was that he was able to
Speaker 1: without judgment, talked to kings and poppers in the same breath,
Speaker 1: and that is a very good quality to have when
Speaker 1: you're selling people things. Was there anything physical, anything physically
Speaker 1: that you did characteristics of the character, did you Did
Speaker 1: you see him in that way at all? I always
Speaker 1: had a thing with Don that Don's suit, you know,
Speaker 1: his his look was a suit of armor. So he
Speaker 1: put this suit of armor on to go to battle
Speaker 1: every day, right, And so when he didn't have that on,
Speaker 1: if you watched the show, realized happened quite a few times.
Speaker 1: But there was almost like a vulnerability that he exhibited
Speaker 1: when he didn't have it on, and it rarely showed
Speaker 1: when he had the armor on. And so, and it
Speaker 1: was part of the hairstyle and everything, like he would
Speaker 1: put his drag on to really become this character because
Speaker 1: that's what he was playing. He was playing a character,
Speaker 1: was playing Don Draper. That's people don't know that. I
Speaker 1: knew that, but Matt told me that whole back story
Speaker 1: before we shot the frame of film. So I knew
Speaker 1: that this guy was living a double life when we
Speaker 1: started it, and it was important for me to play
Speaker 1: that but not play it obviously physically. That's what I
Speaker 1: did consciously, and h I'm sure there were some subconscious
Speaker 1: things that bled into it too. It's I mean, it's
Speaker 1: it's almost encapsulated in the logo, right, there is such
Speaker 1: a strength in casualness. That is a horrible way to say,
Speaker 1: and I can't think of what I'm trying to say,
Speaker 1: but there's such a passive strength with him. He has
Speaker 1: so much power but is holding back. It's that classic
Speaker 1: like the more you yell, the more you scream, the
Speaker 1: louder you are, you actually don't have power, but when
Speaker 1: you pull back, and I felt like you physicalize that
Speaker 1: so well, and yeah, maybe it is when the suit
Speaker 1: was on it I didn't really think about that before,
Speaker 1: but that's really interesting. It's it's very true, Like you know,
Speaker 1: it was. Matt and I would have conversations about this
Speaker 1: all the time, and it was kind of like when
Speaker 1: you're pitching of anything. If you're a writer pitching a project,
Speaker 1: if you're an ad man pitching a concept, there is
Speaker 1: a want or a desire to sort of like be
Speaker 1: a showman and like do the things and do the
Speaker 1: stuff and and sometimes that's warranted and sometimes it's not.
Speaker 1: And so for Don I think his he realized at
Speaker 1: a certain point if they've come into the show room,
Speaker 1: like and this goes back to his days as a
Speaker 1: first salesman when he meets Roger Stirling, if they've come
Speaker 1: into the show room, they're ready to buy, you're already
Speaker 1: halfway there. Your job is to convince them of the
Speaker 1: other half. And the way he was written, and Matt
Speaker 1: had such a good handle on this guy and writing
Speaker 1: him this way. But he was very easy about getting
Speaker 1: you the other of the way there. Come take my
Speaker 1: hand and gonna walk you all the way across from
Speaker 1: You're gonna sit down and you're gonna have this thing,
Speaker 1: and then you're gonna say yes. It was seductive, It
Speaker 1: was like smart, it was emotional, it was you know
Speaker 1: the people point to the carousel speeches that but that's
Speaker 1: that's what it was like. It was all of those things.
Speaker 1: It was and and it was effective, and um, I
Speaker 1: think those are good qualities, you know, salesman, not so
Speaker 1: much in a husband or But that was what I
Speaker 1: was just about to ask you, what for you those
Speaker 1: moments that there were obstacles for Don where things were
Speaker 1: more difficult, What was the most difficult aspect of that
Speaker 1: for you to play? Well, you know, I wouldn't say
Speaker 1: it was difficult. It was fun. And that's the fun
Speaker 1: part of acting. Right. If it was just Don Draper
Speaker 1: selling ads and winning all the time, it would be
Speaker 1: a really boring show, right, And so that part of
Speaker 1: it was the attractive part of it to me. Like,
Speaker 1: my favorite part of the pilot episode is when he
Speaker 1: comes home and you're like, this guy's got life and kids, Like,
Speaker 1: oh shit, right, everything I thought of the first forty
Speaker 1: eight minutes of this show is wrong. I just love
Speaker 1: that reveal, and and I just thought it was really elegant.
Speaker 1: I thought it was really great from a dramatics jet
Speaker 1: and devastating all of the things that you want from
Speaker 1: from a drama and you're like, well, now I'm ready
Speaker 1: for episode two. I'm ready for episode two through a hundred,
Speaker 1: and we were so fortunate to get a chance to
Speaker 1: do another indy two episodes of it. Yeah, well, it's
Speaker 1: really interesting your show, along with Tony Soprano and the
Speaker 1: Sopranos and Brian Cranston and Breaking Bad, that shows where
Speaker 1: the lead character was the hero but had deep flaws
Speaker 1: and obstacles to overcome. And I think that those three
Speaker 1: shows specifically are so brilliant and so great because you
Speaker 1: do find yourself rooting for and against these people. Well,
Speaker 1: so right, it was the the era of the quote
Speaker 1: unquote difficult man, I did not make that phrase up,
Speaker 1: but I think my friend Allan's up and we all did.
Speaker 1: But like it is true, there was this anti hero
Speaker 1: kind of sensibility of the early aughts that was very evident,
Speaker 1: and not only the three you mentioned. I think you
Speaker 1: could probably point to the wire as well as as
Speaker 1: well as a couple other things that was really evident.
Speaker 1: You know the difference I think with our shows that
Speaker 1: unlike Soprannos and Breaking Bad, like those shows had the
Speaker 1: benefit of the stakes being life and death. So Tony
Speaker 1: Soprano was a gangster, he could get whacked any minute.
Speaker 1: Born grandson was a drug dealer, he could get whacked
Speaker 1: any minute. Cops in the wire and then drug dealers
Speaker 1: in the wire. Death was lurking around the corner, and
Speaker 1: every minute our show was not. It was like maybe
Speaker 1: that he's going to disappoint his wife again, or maybe
Speaker 1: it's gonna he's not going to get the big account.
Speaker 1: So the stakes were much more real and much more human,
Speaker 1: and I think a lot more identifiable to more people.
Speaker 1: I don't know what it's like to think, oh, I
Speaker 1: hope someone's that outside wanting to shoot me, But I
Speaker 1: do know what it's like to be disappointed at work.
Speaker 1: And I think that was kind of the magic that
Speaker 1: our show actually had, which was making that those steaks
Speaker 1: high enough to be dramatic. Yeah. Well, it's interesting that Matthew,
Speaker 1: you know, came from The Sopranos trying to find potentially
Speaker 1: a more relatable or universal subject of home versus work
Speaker 1: versus you know, having that conflict exists, that's maybe more
Speaker 1: universal for people. For sure. Matt had written the script
Speaker 1: for mad Men before he got the job on Sopranos.
Speaker 1: That's in fact, David Chase read the script for mad
Speaker 1: Men and said I want to meet this guy, and
Speaker 1: that hired him on Sprantos. And so if you if
Speaker 1: you actually go back and like watch Matt's episodes of
Speaker 1: The Sopranos, you'll see the shared DNA, things about dreams
Speaker 1: and things about signs and things about what does what
Speaker 1: do things really mean? And what's the deeper meaning and
Speaker 1: things and it's very philosophical and it's really smart, and
Speaker 1: it's really emotional, and it's really effective as storytelling. And
Speaker 1: that's you know, the Sopranos was David's milieu, right he
Speaker 1: grew up in New Jersey. He kind of grew up
Speaker 1: around these guys. This was his Bailey Wick and you know,
Speaker 1: Mac grew up in Baltimore and then Beverly Hills and
Speaker 1: like had a very different life and so very much
Speaker 1: understood the overbearing mom and the issues that comes with
Speaker 1: that from the sopranos point of view, and then understood
Speaker 1: kind of the dynamics of marriage and what comes from
Speaker 1: that and from our standpoint, and understood being a salesman
Speaker 1: like he was a comedy writer and and had to
Speaker 1: sell shows like he got it. So those are the
Speaker 1: things that you bring to your work. If you're a writer,
Speaker 1: those are the things you bring to your work. If
Speaker 1: you're actor, like, you bring your experience and you hope
Speaker 1: it relates or resonates in some way. Yeah, that that's
Speaker 1: that's what it's all about. Ultimately, it is finding your
Speaker 1: own experience and trying to translate it on a universal stage.
Speaker 1: You do episodes seven eight years, much like The Office.
Speaker 1: You guys, Uh, most of the cast is unknown before
Speaker 1: that point. Do you think that that made it more
Speaker 1: special for you when it was over or more difficult
Speaker 1: to say goodbye? I mean, I think I don't care
Speaker 1: how famous or not famous or known or unknown you are.
Speaker 1: I think if you spend the better part of the
Speaker 1: decade with anybody, it's hard to say goodbye. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think that's that's the end of a lifetime for
Speaker 1: a lot of people. You know, that's the end, certainly,
Speaker 1: the end of a long chapter of a lifetime. I
Speaker 1: guarantee you had virtually the same experience that I did.
Speaker 1: But it's hard to say goodbye to this part, right right.
Speaker 1: You're never gonna say goodbye to those people forever. So
Speaker 1: I still, you know, hear from them, keep up with them,
Speaker 1: their careers, their lives, their children, and their families in
Speaker 1: some way. It's obviously not in the way that it was,
Speaker 1: but it's certainly in its own significant way. That's just
Speaker 1: what it is. You know, it's just too long a
Speaker 1: time to just ignore. I think, maybe more specifically what
Speaker 1: I meant, you know, it's in a situation I think
Speaker 1: where you have people who are established, it's never the
Speaker 1: same as the first time, and it feels like like Madmen,
Speaker 1: like the Office, it was sort of the first time,
Speaker 1: big show, big experience, big success for everybody, basically, So
Speaker 1: that's that's more I think. Yeah, I think that's true.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's it's certainly different than being on
Speaker 1: a movie where you you know, you're you're together intensely
Speaker 1: for two months or whatever it is, and then your
Speaker 1: peace out and you're onto the next one. Or it's different,
Speaker 1: you know, Like I was on a show on the
Speaker 1: Lifetime network for three years and almost seventy episodes of
Speaker 1: television and me and Taraji Henson and Bonnie Badelia and
Speaker 1: Tracy Needham and Lisa Vidal and Nancy McKeon, and I
Speaker 1: still know them, but I'm not like connected with them
Speaker 1: in any real way because it was like, yeah, that
Speaker 1: was a job. So yeah, it's like it's certainly a
Speaker 1: strange thing and a specific thing, but it's also you're right.
Speaker 1: I think you're You're very right in the sense of like, yeah,
Speaker 1: that first real sense of being successful and something is indelible. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you became so synonymous with Don Draper. Has it been
Speaker 1: hard for you or have you actively tried to do
Speaker 1: different work or do you not think about that? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I mean I remember the show started in two thousand
Speaker 1: We shot the pilot in two thousand four, was on
Speaker 1: the year by two thousand five, two thousand and six,
Speaker 1: we were picked up. So around two thousand seven eight nine,
Speaker 1: that's when I like hosted SNL and was working on
Speaker 1: thirty Rock. Was like, that's when I started to get
Speaker 1: a lot of offers for jobs that were like, Hey,
Speaker 1: this is a guy who's kind of a brooding guy
Speaker 1: who smokes a lot of cigarettes and he wears a hat,
Speaker 1: and like I was like, yeah, I kind of I
Speaker 1: played that guy in my day job. Like, let's do
Speaker 1: something different, And that's when I started working a lot more.
Speaker 1: I had known a lot of the folks in the
Speaker 1: comedy community for years, but that's when I started working
Speaker 1: with them and they were inviting me to come play
Speaker 1: in that sandbox. And that's when I did things like
Speaker 1: Bridesmaids and Dirty Rock and San l and what have you.
Speaker 1: So it was it was definitely a a decision to
Speaker 1: pivot off. Let's not bang on the same piano key
Speaker 1: for forever here, right, I asked, because it was always
Speaker 1: so pleasurable to see you in something totally different, to
Speaker 1: see you show up in Bride'smaids or thirty Rock or um,
Speaker 1: you know, eventually Kimmy Schmidt, and it's it was so
Speaker 1: fun and it felt like at least it must have
Speaker 1: been a choice either for yourself just to be to
Speaker 1: have fun or you know, to want to pivot away
Speaker 1: from that role that defined a network, that defined a
Speaker 1: historic show. Yeah, I mean it was really nice to
Speaker 1: have credibility in both kind of lanes. You know, you
Speaker 1: usually asked weirdly enough as actors, you're and I think
Speaker 1: now more than ever, you're like pickole a do the
Speaker 1: one thing that you do and just just do that
Speaker 1: unless you're you know, blessed. But I was really grateful that,
Speaker 1: you know, Lord Michael's first of all asked me to
Speaker 1: host s and now, and then off of that, Tina said,
Speaker 1: is that guy? Is that guy funny? Is a kind
Speaker 1: of a dud? And I was deemed to be funny
Speaker 1: and then asked to go play with the cool kids
Speaker 1: over Dirty Rock, and you know it just came got
Speaker 1: to meet Amy Poehler, off of that, got to meet
Speaker 1: Maya Rudolph, got to meet Kristin Wigg, got to meet
Speaker 1: Jason sadik Has, got to meet Bill Hayter. The people
Speaker 1: that I ended up working with and doing really fun
Speaker 1: projects with, And it was like a good feeling. I'll say,
Speaker 1: it's awesome. Confess Fletch coming up bringing back Chevy Chase
Speaker 1: fletch from the eighties. Was that scary to you? Are
Speaker 1: you just excited? For sure? You're a big fan of it? Yes, huge,
Speaker 1: huge seminal motion picture for me and Chevy's performance and
Speaker 1: Chevy's career. He was so specific in his comedy and
Speaker 1: is remains and I think is so particularly good in
Speaker 1: that film, so us it was terrifying to actually say, Okay,
Speaker 1: we're gonna do it, but not like he did it.
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna like do a Chevy Chase impression because
Speaker 1: we already have that version. It's like doing a cover
Speaker 1: version of a song. Like if you're going to cover
Speaker 1: the Beatles, you better do it differently than the Beatles.
Speaker 1: Otherwise it's just gonna pale in comparison. So do it differently.
Speaker 1: And so that's what we set out to do and
Speaker 1: we did. It's much more akin to the books, which
Speaker 1: I was a big fan of. Like I saw the
Speaker 1: film in when I was fourteen years old. I thought
Speaker 1: it was the funniest thing I ever saw, and then
Speaker 1: I realized, oh my god, there's ten more books. Like
Speaker 1: I'm so excited I get to read all these books.
Speaker 1: And he goes to Rio and he does this thing,
Speaker 1: and he does he gets in so many more capers.
Speaker 1: It's so fun. And I was like, oh, man, like,
Speaker 1: I hope they make all these movies. You know, this
Speaker 1: was in the days of the early Star Wars days,
Speaker 1: when you knew that there were nine more of these,
Speaker 1: you had to wait four decades for them to come out.
Speaker 1: We decided that we were like, Okay, look, we're gonna
Speaker 1: do this, but we're gonna do it our way. We're
Speaker 1: gonna make it a lot more like the books, and
Speaker 1: if people like it, we understand that there's a whole
Speaker 1: two generations of people that probably they can rediscover it
Speaker 1: if they want. And we made a really funny detective
Speaker 1: movie that obviously shares the same character name and the
Speaker 1: same original source material to the film, but very little
Speaker 1: else with it. But we're hoping that it's um fun
Speaker 1: and funny, and we got to make it. We got
Speaker 1: to make the movie we wanted to make. And Greg Mottola,
Speaker 1: who I've worked with on several projects, I just love
Speaker 1: his sensibility and his the way he works, and he
Speaker 1: co wrote the script, and I was just like, I
Speaker 1: want to make ten more of these. So if you
Speaker 1: want to keep doing them. You'll be in the next
Speaker 1: one if you want, Brian. It's like it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: we just get to play in our our fun little
Speaker 1: sandbox and hopefully they'll let us do more. I am
Speaker 1: so excited to see it. For sure. I was a
Speaker 1: big fan, and obviously you know I'm a big fan
Speaker 1: of yours. So I can't wait to see your take
Speaker 1: on it. When is it? When? When is it out there?
Speaker 1: We don't know. We're it's it's an independent film, believe
Speaker 1: it or not, like we made it like an indie
Speaker 1: and you know, we have to find distribution and all
Speaker 1: that stuff, which we're on track to do, but we
Speaker 1: just haven't done it yet. So we'll see, we'll see that.
Speaker 1: The good news is there's an awful lot of places
Speaker 1: that that distribute movies. Now, yes, um top Gun, Um
Speaker 1: top Gun. However, it will be in theaters. I think
Speaker 1: that'll be everywhere. Right, Was that fun to do? I
Speaker 1: mean that's that's too kind of iconic movies that you're
Speaker 1: you're got a hand in here, right back to back. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: two big eighties franchises that I've got to do, Like
Speaker 1: would tell people, like if I could tell my fourteen
Speaker 1: year old self that I was going to be in
Speaker 1: a Fletch movie and a Top Gun movie. My fourteen
Speaker 1: year old selves head would have fallen off. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I have lot of like high school friends and people
Speaker 1: from my youth that are like so jazzed for Top Gun.
Speaker 1: It's hard for me to even process it. But yeah,
Speaker 1: that'll be in in theaters Memorial Day weekend, whenever that
Speaker 1: is worldwide. You'll be able to find it on a
Speaker 1: screen somewhere near you. It's an excellent film. I'm very
Speaker 1: proud of it. I was very pleased to work with Tom,
Speaker 1: very very pleased to be asked to be a part
Speaker 1: of that franchise Universe world however you want to say
Speaker 1: it like walking around a set that has American flags
Speaker 1: and fighter jets and aircraft carriers and I was like,
Speaker 1: are you kidding me? You know, happy, happy to be here,
Speaker 1: You're in awesome Alright, Last question, I've got to ask you.
Speaker 1: When you are named as you normally are to some
Speaker 1: Sexiest Man Alive list, how does that make you feel
Speaker 1: like proud? If you can put the video aspect of
Speaker 1: this call on the air, you'll know that that's a
Speaker 1: very subjective term. Uh, maybe it's the light or the angle.
Speaker 1: But I've been looking at myself for the better part
Speaker 1: of the last hour and I don't think I'm on
Speaker 1: any of those lists. Um sure, obviously it's nice for
Speaker 1: people to say nice things about you. I think it
Speaker 1: all comes with a pretty healthy grain of salt, and
Speaker 1: I think you know what I do too. I think
Speaker 1: it's just do you take that with a grain of salt? John.
Speaker 1: Until I make it on the list, it means nothing. Well,
Speaker 1: having gone through to bring it all back home, having
Speaker 1: gone through your underwroad drawer, I realize that you're on
Speaker 1: my list. Perfect. John. Thank you so much. You know
Speaker 1: what a huge fan I am of yours and basically
Speaker 1: everything you do. There might have been that one thing
Speaker 1: back in them late night, the division, you can say it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I didn't like that at all, But thank you so
Speaker 1: much for taking the time and talking to me. It's
Speaker 1: my pleasure. Brand It's always nice to talk to you,
Speaker 1: and my best to you and yours, and we'll talk
Speaker 1: at a later day. Thanks John. Well you heard it
Speaker 1: here first everybody, John Ham. Thanks. I am the sexiest
Speaker 1: man alive, but at least I already knew that. John
Speaker 1: Thank you for stopping by. It is always a pleasure,
Speaker 1: my friend. And thank you, yes you out there listening,
Speaker 1: for tuning in. Don't forget to like and subscribe wherever
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, and why don't you go give
Speaker 1: us a follow on Instagram at Off the Beat, I'll
Speaker 1: be seeing you next week with another incredible guest. This
Speaker 1: time I will be talking to a person who is
Speaker 1: both a talented actress and he classically trained ballerina. I
Speaker 1: wonder that could be. But until then, go out there
Speaker 1: and have a fan freaking tastic week. Off the Beat
Speaker 1: is hosted an executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside
Speaker 1: our executive producer Langley. Our producers are Diego Tapia, Liz Hayes,
Speaker 1: Emily Carr, and Hannah Harris. Our talent producer is Ryan
Speaker 1: Papa Zachary. Our theme song Bubble and Squeak performed by
Speaker 1: my great friend Creed Bratton, and the episode was mixed
Speaker 1: by seth Olandski