WEBVTT - Jon Hamm 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:04.560 That's too kind of iconic movies that you're You're got 0:00:04.559 --> 0:00:07.040 a hand in here right back to back. Yeah yeah, 0:00:07.120 --> 0:00:09.760 two big eighties franchises that I've got to do. Like 0:00:09.800 --> 0:00:11.720 would tell people, like if I could tell my fourteen 0:00:11.760 --> 0:00:13.119 year old self that I was going to be in 0:00:14.200 --> 0:00:17.120 a Fletch movie and a top Gun movie, my fourteen 0:00:17.200 --> 0:00:25.880 year old self's head would have fallen off. Hi. I'm 0:00:25.960 --> 0:00:36.760 John Handon and I'm very happy to be here. Hello everybody, 0:00:37.040 --> 0:00:41.559 and yes I'm here. So that means it's time for 0:00:41.760 --> 0:00:45.880 a brand new episode of Off the Beat. As always, 0:00:46.120 --> 0:00:50.080 I'm your host, Brian baum Gartner. Today you just heard. 0:00:50.479 --> 0:00:54.720 I am so excited to be interviewing another icon of 0:00:55.040 --> 0:00:58.120 the TV industry. You know him, you love him, We 0:00:58.200 --> 0:01:02.680 all know him, the amazed John Ham. I mean, what 0:01:02.760 --> 0:01:06.520 can I say about John. He's hilarious, he's handsome, and 0:01:06.800 --> 0:01:10.640 he has truly had one of the most amazing careers 0:01:11.000 --> 0:01:14.560 in the game. You may know John from his iconic 0:01:14.959 --> 0:01:19.880 portrayal of the always dapper Don Draper, or maybe as 0:01:20.040 --> 0:01:24.920 Reverend Richard Wayne Gary Wayne in The Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt. 0:01:24.959 --> 0:01:28.119 I mean, he's done at all from teaching our very 0:01:28.200 --> 0:01:31.520 own Ellie Kemper in high school. That's right. There are 0:01:31.520 --> 0:01:35.200 people out there who got to have John Ham as 0:01:35.200 --> 0:01:39.200 a high school drama teacher to his latest pursuit of 0:01:39.240 --> 0:01:43.960 playing the nineteen eighties detective of his fourteen year old dreams. 0:01:44.240 --> 0:01:45.960 You know, I don't know why I'm building him up. 0:01:46.120 --> 0:01:48.600 You know who he is. I know you love him, 0:01:48.840 --> 0:01:51.880 as do I. So let's bring him on, shall we? 0:01:52.200 --> 0:02:03.200 The incredible John hamb I love it, Bubble and Quaker 0:02:05.680 --> 0:02:09.840 bubble and Quaker cookie at every moment left over from 0:02:09.880 --> 0:02:24.200 the natty people. What's up? John? There he is. How 0:02:24.200 --> 0:02:26.919 are you? I'm good man, How are you? I am 0:02:27.040 --> 0:02:28.920 so well. It's so good to see you. It's been 0:02:28.919 --> 0:02:31.480 a long time. It has been a minute. It's been 0:02:31.480 --> 0:02:33.919 a minute, I think the last time. Maybe not the 0:02:34.000 --> 0:02:36.560 last time, but uh, that I heard from you. You 0:02:36.560 --> 0:02:41.000 were you were looking through my house when I wasn't home. Yes, 0:02:41.160 --> 0:02:44.480 that that should be explained. I think we can just 0:02:44.560 --> 0:02:49.200 leave it at that. Actually all right, No, I heard. 0:02:49.400 --> 0:02:51.680 I got home. I was like, oh, John Hann was 0:02:51.720 --> 0:02:53.200 there your house today? And I was like, what did 0:02:53.240 --> 0:02:55.399 he go through my underwear drawer? Why was he? Why 0:02:55.480 --> 0:02:58.400 was he in there? T? D. T. B D. I 0:02:58.440 --> 0:03:02.679 see you have the is that the Burrows High School shirt? There? Yes, 0:03:02.720 --> 0:03:07.040 indeed John Burrows High School. St. Louis, Missouri, home and 0:03:07.360 --> 0:03:10.720 alma mater of myself and one Ellie kemper As. You know. 0:03:11.240 --> 0:03:13.680 That's right, so you I want to talk about that 0:03:13.760 --> 0:03:15.960 in a second. But you grew up in St. Louis right, 0:03:16.320 --> 0:03:19.080 born and raised St. Louis, Missouri. Yes, indeed, do you 0:03:19.080 --> 0:03:22.520 go back often? I wouldn't say often, especially obviously during 0:03:22.520 --> 0:03:24.880 the pandemic it was difficult, but you know, a couple 0:03:24.880 --> 0:03:28.400 of times a year for various functions and whatnots and 0:03:29.120 --> 0:03:33.239 my sister's both have grown up kids, so now they're 0:03:33.240 --> 0:03:35.600 starting to have kids. So it's that kind of thing 0:03:35.840 --> 0:03:39.200 or an occasion or a function. But other than that, 0:03:39.320 --> 0:03:41.880 it's I just don't get back that much. Yeah, but 0:03:41.960 --> 0:03:45.240 you still root for the sports teams, I know the Blues, Yes, 0:03:45.360 --> 0:03:48.160 that very much. I do. I've root for the teams. 0:03:48.720 --> 0:03:53.280 I'm excited for baseball season. This is all happening. So 0:03:53.480 --> 0:03:57.040 it's all happening. Um, you didn't really get into acting 0:03:57.080 --> 0:04:00.280 until college, is that right? I mean, yeah, I wasn't 0:04:00.280 --> 0:04:02.240 a child actor or anything like that, but I did 0:04:02.240 --> 0:04:05.720 you played Winnie the Pooh. I did, Yes, I did, 0:04:05.760 --> 0:04:08.840 thank you very much. It was excellent. That was in 0:04:09.000 --> 0:04:12.040 first grade. And then I did do some acting throughout 0:04:12.480 --> 0:04:15.320 high school, but it was more of a college thing. 0:04:15.600 --> 0:04:18.480 I got a scholarship to do it, which was very cool. 0:04:19.040 --> 0:04:20.440 I didn't have a lot of money, so that was 0:04:20.480 --> 0:04:23.960 a nice little way to augment my income or pay 0:04:24.040 --> 0:04:26.960 my bills. So yeah, So that that was at MISSOO. 0:04:27.320 --> 0:04:31.080 That was sort of the beginning of me being accepted 0:04:31.240 --> 0:04:35.320 as someone who could believably put a wig on and 0:04:36.440 --> 0:04:38.919 make people laugh or not. Is that what you like 0:04:39.040 --> 0:04:41.880 to do? Make people laugh when you started? Or did 0:04:41.880 --> 0:04:44.480 it not matter? I don't know. It kind of didn't matter. 0:04:44.520 --> 0:04:48.760 I really liked saying other people's words. I really liked plays, 0:04:48.839 --> 0:04:52.320 and I really liked reading things out loud, and I 0:04:52.440 --> 0:04:57.320 enjoyed the idea of interpreting people's words. And then like, 0:04:57.400 --> 0:04:59.719 when it became sort of a profession, I was like, WHOA, 0:05:00.160 --> 0:05:02.600 if you actually put some effort into this, this can 0:05:02.640 --> 0:05:07.280 be even more fun. Right. You went back to John 0:05:07.279 --> 0:05:10.719 Burrows High School and you taught drama for a while. 0:05:10.880 --> 0:05:15.279 As you mentioned, you taught Ellie Kemper in school. Now 0:05:15.320 --> 0:05:17.120 when you went back there to teach a drama, Did 0:05:17.160 --> 0:05:19.320 you think that was it for you? Or was that 0:05:19.600 --> 0:05:22.640 just a step. I was twenty four years old, so 0:05:22.680 --> 0:05:24.480 I was pretty young still, and I was like, Okay, 0:05:24.520 --> 0:05:27.040 this is like a job and a job that I'm 0:05:27.120 --> 0:05:29.880 excited to do and I really wanted to do for 0:05:30.120 --> 0:05:32.320 various reasons, most of which I had to do with 0:05:33.279 --> 0:05:36.719 the school that I went to. As you can probably 0:05:36.720 --> 0:05:38.719 tell some some wearing a T shirt and sitting in 0:05:38.760 --> 0:05:41.919 a chair that has the crest on it is pretty 0:05:42.200 --> 0:05:44.480 important to me in my life. And I was like, 0:05:44.600 --> 0:05:47.359 I really understood that this school gave a lot to me, 0:05:48.200 --> 0:05:51.240 right therefore, I wanted to be able to give something 0:05:51.320 --> 0:05:54.720 back to it, which I have done in the course 0:05:55.000 --> 0:05:57.800 of my career. As it is taken off, I've done 0:05:57.839 --> 0:05:59.680 a lot more. But at that point I was like, well, 0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:02.440 what I can really do is actually go back and 0:06:02.640 --> 0:06:09.680 teach and try to download some of my vastly accrued 0:06:09.760 --> 0:06:14.960 knowledge at twenty four to to these this next generation. 0:06:15.240 --> 0:06:17.599 And you know, I had some really great students. Ellie 0:06:17.640 --> 0:06:19.880 was one of them. You know, Ellie even back when 0:06:19.920 --> 0:06:21.719 she was fifteen years old and she was like a 0:06:22.000 --> 0:06:25.200 ninth grader, was just a hard worker and I real 0:06:26.040 --> 0:06:30.320 not competitive, but like achievement oriented spirit like, so I 0:06:30.360 --> 0:06:32.719 was like, oh, you're gonna be just fine, like you're 0:06:33.279 --> 0:06:36.039 you're a good kid, and you get it. And and 0:06:36.080 --> 0:06:38.840 she really liked acting and it was really fun for her. 0:06:38.920 --> 0:06:41.600 You could tell all of my kids that I had, 0:06:41.720 --> 0:06:44.160 except for the eighth graders, were all like they all 0:06:44.240 --> 0:06:45.960 chose to be in this class. So it was kind 0:06:45.960 --> 0:06:47.160 of like, well, if you didn't want to be here, 0:06:47.160 --> 0:06:49.480 you wouldn't have picked it. So and it was in 0:06:49.600 --> 0:06:51.400 brov and it was acting, it was scene study, and 0:06:51.400 --> 0:06:53.359 it was all that stuff. And I did it for 0:06:53.400 --> 0:06:56.080 a year and it was really fulfilling and fun and 0:06:56.160 --> 0:06:58.480 I very much enjoyed it. But no, it was It 0:06:58.600 --> 0:06:59.760 was not a thing that I was like, Oh, this 0:06:59.880 --> 0:07:01.440 is be the rest of my life. I'm gonna get 0:07:01.480 --> 0:07:03.840 married and have kids and I'm gonna settle in St. 0:07:03.839 --> 0:07:05.960 Louis and live five minutes from where I grew up. 0:07:06.000 --> 0:07:08.400 And I was like, I think I want to try 0:07:08.440 --> 0:07:11.840 something else, right, I have to go back on that 0:07:11.920 --> 0:07:14.680 for a second. You remember Ellie like you remember her 0:07:14.720 --> 0:07:17.360 as a student. Yeah, and her sister carry too. Yeah, 0:07:17.440 --> 0:07:19.640 of course I remember all my kids like for for 0:07:19.680 --> 0:07:22.160 the most part, but yeah, no, I definitely remember Ellie. 0:07:22.240 --> 0:07:24.600 She was She was just a really hard working, diligent, 0:07:25.320 --> 0:07:28.480 a cheap and oriented student who was very It was great. 0:07:28.520 --> 0:07:30.400 Like honestly, as a teacher, you're like, those are the 0:07:30.440 --> 0:07:34.400 kids that you only want, right So when did you 0:07:34.640 --> 0:07:38.960 reconnect with her? Do you remember seeing her again? Or yes, 0:07:39.600 --> 0:07:42.760 I do. She show it to college. That was five 0:07:42.840 --> 0:07:44.480 years later, and I was out here in l A. 0:07:44.560 --> 0:07:47.560 I had probably been working. I'm not sure if I 0:07:47.640 --> 0:07:51.280 was on Madman by that point, but she, I remember 0:07:51.400 --> 0:07:55.160 emailed me and said, I'm coming out. I went to 0:07:55.480 --> 0:07:57.440 this and I did this, and I've been doing this 0:07:57.960 --> 0:08:01.200 UCB and blah blah blah, and I'm coming out and 0:08:01.200 --> 0:08:05.760 I'm doing my one person show at UCB Theater. And 0:08:05.760 --> 0:08:07.600 I was like, oh my god, that's awesome. That's like 0:08:07.880 --> 0:08:11.040 five minutes away from my house. I'd love to come 0:08:11.040 --> 0:08:14.840 see it. That sounds great. And so I did. And 0:08:15.120 --> 0:08:16.880 I came backstage after the show and I was like, 0:08:16.920 --> 0:08:19.000 you were really great. That was awesome, you know it 0:08:19.080 --> 0:08:22.400 was there were twenty people in the audience, and She's like, Oh, 0:08:22.440 --> 0:08:24.280 I'm so excited. I got it. I have an audition 0:08:24.320 --> 0:08:28.720 tomorrow for the Office, and I said, well, I think 0:08:29.160 --> 0:08:31.880 you're going to get it because you are perfect for 0:08:31.920 --> 0:08:35.000 that show and this is like a perfect showcase for you. 0:08:35.800 --> 0:08:42.280 And the rest is history. That is crazy. Suffice to say, 0:08:42.320 --> 0:08:45.080 I do remember when I saw her. You do remember her? 0:08:45.640 --> 0:08:48.719 I I assume you were asked. I don't know if 0:08:48.760 --> 0:08:51.439 by her. How did it come to be that, Well, 0:08:51.640 --> 0:08:54.319 you played her captor then on Kemi Schmid years later. 0:08:54.440 --> 0:08:56.680 I did you keep in touch before then? Well? Yeah, 0:08:56.760 --> 0:09:00.240 actually we had done Bridesmaids together, right, so we had 0:09:00.280 --> 0:09:03.360 that sort of meeting again. And I remember being on 0:09:03.400 --> 0:09:06.240 the red carpet for that movie and looking over at 0:09:06.240 --> 0:09:08.600 Ellie and she caught my eye and I was like, 0:09:08.840 --> 0:09:11.480 this is so weird, and we both kind of laughed, 0:09:11.520 --> 0:09:13.240 and I think we gave each other hug and I 0:09:13.280 --> 0:09:15.320 was just like, I can't believe you. I'm like standing 0:09:15.320 --> 0:09:17.079 next to you on a red carpet at a major 0:09:17.160 --> 0:09:20.320 motion picture that we're both in. That's going to be 0:09:20.360 --> 0:09:22.120 a huge hit we didn't know at the time, but 0:09:22.200 --> 0:09:24.840 going to be sort of a cultural touch point for 0:09:24.840 --> 0:09:28.040 for many people. But it was nice, to say the least. 0:09:28.280 --> 0:09:30.520 But yes, I had kept up with her, and obviously 0:09:30.559 --> 0:09:32.480 because I knew a lot of you guys on the 0:09:32.520 --> 0:09:35.200 Office too, So like people maybe don't know this, but 0:09:35.240 --> 0:09:38.200 like you know, the the Awards Show kind of swirl, 0:09:39.040 --> 0:09:41.800 you know, had us in it for quite a few years, 0:09:41.920 --> 0:09:44.600 us being Madman, and then also the Office and Dirty Rock, 0:09:44.720 --> 0:09:47.040 and so we would see each other at a couple 0:09:47.080 --> 0:09:51.240 of occasions every every year for quite a few years. 0:09:51.240 --> 0:09:53.079 So I would run into her at those things, as 0:09:53.080 --> 0:09:56.000 well as you and b J and Mindy and Tina 0:09:56.040 --> 0:09:59.360 and Robert Carlock and all the thirty Rock gang. And 0:09:59.360 --> 0:10:01.560 and that's when I did the stretch I did on 0:10:01.600 --> 0:10:05.520 Dirty Rock after thirty Rock. And that's when Tina and 0:10:05.600 --> 0:10:08.000 Robert said, Hey, we're kicking around this idea. We really 0:10:08.040 --> 0:10:11.040 wanted to develop this thing for Ellie. Would you take 0:10:11.040 --> 0:10:12.640 a look at it? Would you consider it? And I 0:10:12.679 --> 0:10:14.080 was like, I don't know if I really want to 0:10:14.080 --> 0:10:17.920 be a go back right into serious television. They're like, no, no, 0:10:18.000 --> 0:10:21.960 you're in like one episode a year. I was like, oh, okay, 0:10:22.160 --> 0:10:25.640 that's first of all, how dare you. Second of all, 0:10:28.160 --> 0:10:30.360 let's stay let's take a look at it. And they 0:10:30.360 --> 0:10:32.640 were like, well, let's let us come pitch it. To you, 0:10:32.679 --> 0:10:35.880 and I was like, okay. At that stage of it, 0:10:35.880 --> 0:10:38.520 it was a pilot and the pilot was called Tooken 0:10:38.760 --> 0:10:42.679 t o O kay N. I was like, okay, what 0:10:42.679 --> 0:10:46.200 what and they're like, okay, you play a guy who 0:10:46.320 --> 0:10:49.040 kidnapped for women and kept them in an underground bunker. 0:10:49.080 --> 0:10:53.320 And it was literally like, let me finish. But it's funny, 0:10:53.800 --> 0:10:57.920 It's like so I was like, I mean, I trust 0:10:57.960 --> 0:10:59.920 you guys, but I mean really like a lot of 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:02.160 weird stuff had just come out about people, and I 0:11:02.240 --> 0:11:04.360 was like, I don't know, man, I'm not sure I 0:11:04.400 --> 0:11:05.920 find the funny in this. But then I read it 0:11:05.920 --> 0:11:07.880 and I was like, oh, it's really funny, and it's 0:11:07.920 --> 0:11:10.960 about the only way you get away with that is 0:11:11.000 --> 0:11:14.440 by playing this person as a complete and utter buffoon 0:11:15.240 --> 0:11:20.440 and totally out of the realm of believability. And it 0:11:20.520 --> 0:11:22.920 was really fun. I mean, playing that guy was so 0:11:22.960 --> 0:11:27.280 silly and so dumb, but so fun because it was 0:11:27.320 --> 0:11:30.440 so like Robert Carlock, who wrote the majority of the 0:11:30.480 --> 0:11:34.839 Reverend stuff, just got that dumb energy of like it's 0:11:34.960 --> 0:11:39.320 it's not even toxic masculinity, it's just stupid masculinity. It 0:11:39.360 --> 0:11:41.440 was really fun to do, and yeah, I mean it 0:11:41.480 --> 0:11:43.600 went for forever and we got to do that really 0:11:43.600 --> 0:11:46.440 fun Netflix choose your own adventure kind of thing. Yeah, 0:11:47.160 --> 0:11:49.040 it was really great. I was really really pleased with 0:11:49.080 --> 0:11:51.920 how it grew and how it ended and how it 0:11:52.559 --> 0:11:56.200 developed Titus character and Carol Kane's character. Like it was 0:11:56.240 --> 0:11:59.440 just like the best of shows, like your show. It 0:11:59.559 --> 0:12:03.840 became like watching a family grow, and like we watched 0:12:03.880 --> 0:12:07.000 the characters kind of go through their own stuff and 0:12:07.040 --> 0:12:09.920 you watch them figure their own stuff out, and by 0:12:09.960 --> 0:12:14.079 the end of it there better. Yeah, well said, so 0:12:14.240 --> 0:12:17.640 let's go back your teaching at John Burrows. When did 0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:19.720 you make the decision that you needed to go to 0:12:19.880 --> 0:12:23.439 l A. I remember they had asked me to consider 0:12:24.120 --> 0:12:27.840 doing another year at school, um, and I was like, well, 0:12:28.360 --> 0:12:30.680 I don't know, guys, Like I think I wanna try 0:12:30.720 --> 0:12:34.560 to see what can happen with this. And I just 0:12:34.600 --> 0:12:38.320 remember having this thought of like, well, I'm getting kind 0:12:38.320 --> 0:12:44.440 of old. Yeah, I'm like getting a little long in 0:12:44.480 --> 0:12:49.120 the tooth, which, by the way, nowadays is actually true. 0:12:49.240 --> 0:12:52.440 Like if you're not famous by fourteen on TikTok, give 0:12:52.480 --> 0:12:56.000 it up, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. Don't please don't, And 0:12:56.120 --> 0:12:59.040 also don't get famous on TikTok, but I was. I 0:12:59.120 --> 0:13:00.840 just had a sense of like, well, if not now, 0:13:00.920 --> 0:13:05.480 when And I could definitely see inertia settling in if 0:13:05.520 --> 0:13:10.120 I didn't at least try. And I remember one of 0:13:10.160 --> 0:13:13.160 my acting teachers a long time ago, even actually the 0:13:13.200 --> 0:13:17.800 guy went and taught underneath at Burrows, said like, what's 0:13:17.840 --> 0:13:20.040 the worst thing that can happen? If you try? You fail, 0:13:20.280 --> 0:13:24.720 so then fail again and fail better. Yeah, okay, that 0:13:24.800 --> 0:13:27.520 seems like a pretty good advice. And it is, like 0:13:27.600 --> 0:13:31.360 it really is, like I really think, especially nowadays, and 0:13:31.440 --> 0:13:37.880 especially how uncertain everything seems with the pandemic, with the 0:13:38.080 --> 0:13:41.880 complete devastation of social norms as it seems over the 0:13:41.920 --> 0:13:45.920 last few years, I think the idea of failing is 0:13:46.000 --> 0:13:49.200 so terrifying to people, and and in reality you're kind 0:13:49.200 --> 0:13:50.960 of like, and then you know what will happen, Like 0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:53.480 you'll fail at something and then my son is gonna 0:13:53.559 --> 0:13:56.439 rise and you're gonna get up and go get another 0:13:56.520 --> 0:13:59.440 job or not, or you know you're gonna make it work. 0:13:59.679 --> 0:14:02.640 It's an climbing mout everest every time. Sometimes it's just 0:14:02.720 --> 0:14:04.240 walking up a hill and you just have to put 0:14:04.280 --> 0:14:05.599 one ft in front of another and then all of 0:14:05.600 --> 0:14:08.439 a sudden you look back and you're like, look, how 0:14:08.480 --> 0:14:12.760 far up come? This is actually impressive. I'm impressed with myself, right, 0:14:13.520 --> 0:14:17.280 it is. You deserve credit, though, what do they say 0:14:17.320 --> 0:14:20.960 A bird in a hand? Like leaving something, Especially when 0:14:20.960 --> 0:14:23.200 you're in this business where it's so hard to get work, 0:14:23.960 --> 0:14:26.760 it's difficult to leave. I mean you were twenty four, 0:14:26.880 --> 0:14:30.920 I mean commed, I was working in the theater and 0:14:30.960 --> 0:14:32.320 I was like, yeah, I want to go to l A. 0:14:32.400 --> 0:14:33.720 I want to go to l OH but I have 0:14:33.840 --> 0:14:37.280 this job. It's really hard to say no, this is 0:14:37.320 --> 0:14:39.360 what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna go to l A. 0:14:39.640 --> 0:14:43.160 And leaving opportunities that you have is it's difficult. Well, 0:14:43.200 --> 0:14:46.200 I think there are there are inflection points, right obviously, 0:14:46.600 --> 0:14:49.240 and we all have them. Some of them happen earlier 0:14:50.040 --> 0:14:53.440 for us and some of them happened later. And I 0:14:53.480 --> 0:14:56.520 think the idea is in the best case scenario, and 0:14:56.600 --> 0:14:58.600 I think you can probably attest to this as well, 0:14:59.520 --> 0:15:02.920 having the ability to identify them. Right, So when you 0:15:02.960 --> 0:15:06.160 get an opportunity, you say, Okay, this is an opportunity, 0:15:06.320 --> 0:15:09.160 like I really want to take advantage of this, and 0:15:09.200 --> 0:15:12.000 I remember God, I mean When I came out here, 0:15:12.040 --> 0:15:15.680 I auditioned for everything and I got nothing. I was 0:15:15.720 --> 0:15:18.760 an extra in the pilot of the TV show The Practice, 0:15:19.720 --> 0:15:23.480 you know, I was up for Deep Impact. I didn't 0:15:23.480 --> 0:15:26.080 get it. Jon Favreau got it. And it was just 0:15:26.120 --> 0:15:29.080 one of those things of like coming so close to 0:15:29.160 --> 0:15:31.640 something and not getting it's coming so close to something 0:15:31.640 --> 0:15:33.680 and not getting it. And that happened over and over 0:15:33.720 --> 0:15:35.480 and over and over again. And I had success, and 0:15:35.520 --> 0:15:37.640 I had a couple of things that I got, and 0:15:37.640 --> 0:15:40.240 it was kind of climbing up that hill of loose 0:15:40.280 --> 0:15:43.560 gravel and sliding down and climbing back up and sliding down. 0:15:44.360 --> 0:15:47.160 But then I remember when Madman came around. I was like, Oh, 0:15:47.280 --> 0:15:49.680 this is like an inflection point. This is an actual 0:15:49.840 --> 0:15:53.720 thing that I could really do and really do well. 0:15:53.840 --> 0:15:57.120 And I think that I need to identify, like I 0:15:57.200 --> 0:15:59.600 have to like call it out and I have to 0:15:59.640 --> 0:16:02.320 be I have to get this. I just have to. 0:16:03.480 --> 0:16:07.120 I'm not a big believer in the secret or you know, 0:16:07.720 --> 0:16:12.320 manifesting your destiny or whatever that, but I was very 0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:16.960 much aware that I really did in a way that 0:16:17.000 --> 0:16:20.520 I hadn't identified any of these other opportunities or options 0:16:20.840 --> 0:16:22.800 that I really thought this was right for me, that 0:16:22.840 --> 0:16:24.520 I was going to be really good in this and 0:16:24.560 --> 0:16:28.600 it was going to be really important. And so yeah, 0:16:28.680 --> 0:16:30.760 that was when I was thirty five, so like there 0:16:30.840 --> 0:16:32.840 was ten years between me coming out here and me 0:16:32.920 --> 0:16:37.560 getting the thing that identified me to the greater population. 0:16:38.400 --> 0:16:40.320 It is what it is, and you have to go well, 0:16:40.600 --> 0:16:43.400 I have to identify those inflection points when they happen, 0:16:43.480 --> 0:16:46.720 and and then take advantage when they when they present themselves. 0:17:05.160 --> 0:17:09.560 I understand or I've heard that, like the Office mad 0:17:09.600 --> 0:17:13.360 Men was specifically looking for unknown actors. Is that right? 0:17:13.359 --> 0:17:16.199 Did you know that going in? I didn't know that 0:17:16.280 --> 0:17:19.280 going in, because I remember going to quite a few 0:17:19.320 --> 0:17:23.560 auditions and seeing everybody signing in and recognizing quite a 0:17:23.600 --> 0:17:26.359 few of the names on the signing sheet, and I 0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:30.440 remember hearing that they had offered it to this person 0:17:30.480 --> 0:17:34.600 and that person. Matthew has said, and I believe him 0:17:34.640 --> 0:17:37.600 that he when he met me, knew that I was 0:17:37.640 --> 0:17:42.800 the right person. And then had I think, had figured that, yes, 0:17:42.960 --> 0:17:46.320 this would be a much better way for an audience 0:17:46.320 --> 0:17:49.439 to perceive this show if they did not have a 0:17:49.560 --> 0:17:52.960 celebrity or somebody recognizable in the title role, like if 0:17:53.000 --> 0:17:56.080 it was Rob Low. Just to name a person as 0:17:56.160 --> 0:17:58.080 Don Draper, it would have been the Robb Blow Show. 0:17:58.359 --> 0:18:02.159 And that's that's exactly what he didn't want. He wanted 0:18:02.160 --> 0:18:06.479 it to be this show starring these people. And I 0:18:06.480 --> 0:18:11.360 think that that delivered well. Certainly not being colored with 0:18:11.440 --> 0:18:15.360 a specific personality. I mean it allows you to experience 0:18:15.400 --> 0:18:18.679 the character and more authentically well. And also, you know, 0:18:18.680 --> 0:18:20.040 it's one of the it's one of those things like 0:18:20.080 --> 0:18:23.359 we just don't really have that. I mean, we're starting 0:18:23.359 --> 0:18:26.280 to have it more. We didn't have it, I should 0:18:26.320 --> 0:18:28.200 say back then. We have it a lot more now 0:18:28.600 --> 0:18:32.119 when you see a show on Hulu or Netflix or 0:18:32.560 --> 0:18:34.760 we have so many more of those now because the 0:18:34.800 --> 0:18:38.879 selection and the choices are limitless at this point. You know, 0:18:38.920 --> 0:18:42.480 it's not thirty one flavors. It's like thirty one thousand flavors. 0:18:43.080 --> 0:18:46.520 So you can really dial into your specific palette. If 0:18:46.520 --> 0:18:49.960 I can extend that metaphor. It's a strange world. And 0:18:50.000 --> 0:18:53.000 I think Matt and I think Mike and Greg also 0:18:53.119 --> 0:18:55.160 kind of got it. It was like, we can't have 0:18:56.119 --> 0:18:59.880 super recognizable people, we can't stunt cast this thing. It's 0:19:00.000 --> 0:19:03.199 not gonna work. And if the market is amenable to 0:19:03.280 --> 0:19:06.480 letting people discover this in their own time, and we 0:19:06.480 --> 0:19:10.040 were definitely beneficiaries of that. Yeah, you said you read 0:19:10.119 --> 0:19:12.399 the role and you knew that it was for you. 0:19:13.080 --> 0:19:16.119 Why what was it about the role that you saw 0:19:16.520 --> 0:19:19.760 synonymous with yourself or knew that you were the perfect person. 0:19:19.920 --> 0:19:22.880 That's a good question. I just I just felt it. 0:19:22.880 --> 0:19:28.720 It's like Don was a kind of mysterious person. He 0:19:28.800 --> 0:19:33.639 was a smart person, but not you know, traditionally, you know, 0:19:33.680 --> 0:19:36.080 he didn't go to the all the right schools and 0:19:36.119 --> 0:19:38.960 the right things. He just kind of was he kind 0:19:38.960 --> 0:19:42.320 of knew people. That was Don's superpower was that he 0:19:42.400 --> 0:19:45.600 knew people right. He could read people. I said this 0:19:45.680 --> 0:19:47.920 about my father a lot, Like my dad could talk 0:19:48.000 --> 0:19:51.399 to anybody and he could listen to them. That's what 0:19:51.440 --> 0:19:53.840 I mean by talk to them. He wouldn't monologue at them. 0:19:53.840 --> 0:19:56.840 He would like engage in a conversation with them. And 0:19:56.880 --> 0:20:00.199 I always felt I had that gift, so that what 0:20:00.280 --> 0:20:03.520 I identified with Don was that he was able to 0:20:04.040 --> 0:20:10.000 without judgment, talked to kings and poppers in the same breath, 0:20:10.160 --> 0:20:12.520 and that is a very good quality to have when 0:20:12.560 --> 0:20:19.480 you're selling people things. Was there anything physical, anything physically 0:20:19.520 --> 0:20:22.840 that you did characteristics of the character, did you Did 0:20:22.840 --> 0:20:25.280 you see him in that way at all? I always 0:20:25.359 --> 0:20:29.439 had a thing with Don that Don's suit, you know, 0:20:29.600 --> 0:20:33.359 his his look was a suit of armor. So he 0:20:33.600 --> 0:20:36.439 put this suit of armor on to go to battle 0:20:36.520 --> 0:20:40.080 every day, right, And so when he didn't have that on, 0:20:40.920 --> 0:20:44.000 if you watched the show, realized happened quite a few times. 0:20:44.440 --> 0:20:48.440 But there was almost like a vulnerability that he exhibited 0:20:48.480 --> 0:20:51.359 when he didn't have it on, and it rarely showed 0:20:51.400 --> 0:20:53.359 when he had the armor on. And so, and it 0:20:53.440 --> 0:20:56.520 was part of the hairstyle and everything, like he would 0:20:56.560 --> 0:21:00.960 put his drag on to really become this character because 0:21:01.000 --> 0:21:03.040 that's what he was playing. He was playing a character, 0:21:03.240 --> 0:21:06.960 was playing Don Draper. That's people don't know that. I 0:21:07.040 --> 0:21:10.439 knew that, but Matt told me that whole back story 0:21:10.600 --> 0:21:14.280 before we shot the frame of film. So I knew 0:21:14.280 --> 0:21:17.480 that this guy was living a double life when we 0:21:17.520 --> 0:21:20.080 started it, and it was important for me to play 0:21:20.080 --> 0:21:23.560 that but not play it obviously physically. That's what I 0:21:23.600 --> 0:21:28.240 did consciously, and h I'm sure there were some subconscious 0:21:28.240 --> 0:21:30.640 things that bled into it too. It's I mean, it's 0:21:30.720 --> 0:21:35.000 it's almost encapsulated in the logo, right, there is such 0:21:35.080 --> 0:21:41.160 a strength in casualness. That is a horrible way to say, 0:21:41.200 --> 0:21:42.800 and I can't think of what I'm trying to say, 0:21:42.840 --> 0:21:47.440 but there's such a passive strength with him. He has 0:21:47.520 --> 0:21:51.040 so much power but is holding back. It's that classic 0:21:51.160 --> 0:21:53.600 like the more you yell, the more you scream, the 0:21:53.640 --> 0:21:56.760 louder you are, you actually don't have power, but when 0:21:56.760 --> 0:21:59.800 you pull back, and I felt like you physicalize that 0:22:00.160 --> 0:22:02.920 so well, and yeah, maybe it is when the suit 0:22:03.000 --> 0:22:04.840 was on it I didn't really think about that before, 0:22:04.840 --> 0:22:08.199 but that's really interesting. It's it's very true, Like you know, 0:22:08.240 --> 0:22:10.639 it was. Matt and I would have conversations about this 0:22:10.680 --> 0:22:13.080 all the time, and it was kind of like when 0:22:13.119 --> 0:22:16.000 you're pitching of anything. If you're a writer pitching a project, 0:22:16.080 --> 0:22:19.720 if you're an ad man pitching a concept, there is 0:22:19.760 --> 0:22:23.040 a want or a desire to sort of like be 0:22:23.119 --> 0:22:25.199 a showman and like do the things and do the 0:22:25.400 --> 0:22:29.600 stuff and and sometimes that's warranted and sometimes it's not. 0:22:29.800 --> 0:22:33.359 And so for Don I think his he realized at 0:22:33.359 --> 0:22:35.800