1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:00,960 Speaker 1: Friends and neighbors. 2 00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:06,440 Speaker 2: Fellow conspiracy realist, Welcome to our classic episode. If you 3 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:10,640 Speaker 2: were not from Nova Scotia, you maybe never heard of 4 00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:14,960 Speaker 2: a place called Africville. We sure did not, oh until 5 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:15,680 Speaker 2: this episode. 6 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:18,600 Speaker 1: Well sir, yeah, and what we learned from this episode 7 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:21,159 Speaker 1: is that it's a small community in Halifax that the 8 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:25,880 Speaker 1: larger government of Halifax seemed just fine with them pretending 9 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:30,040 Speaker 1: didn't exist. Yeah, it existed for about one hundred and 10 00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:34,600 Speaker 1: twenty years and then a tragedy occurred and zilch. 11 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:40,960 Speaker 2: So what happened, whether or whence Africville, Nova Scotia, That 12 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:44,600 Speaker 2: is the subject of our classic episode. Thank you for 13 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:47,160 Speaker 2: joining us. Let's roll the tape. 14 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:51,479 Speaker 3: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 15 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:55,880 Speaker 3: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 16 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:57,920 Speaker 3: learn this stuff. They don't want you to know. 17 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:12,399 Speaker 1: A production of our grading. Hello and welcome back to 18 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:13,920 Speaker 1: the show. My name is Noel. 19 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 2: Our writer die compatriot Matt Frederick is on adventures, but 20 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:22,119 Speaker 2: will be returning post haste. They called me Ben. We're 21 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:26,040 Speaker 2: joined as always with our super producer Paul Mission Control decades. 22 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:29,920 Speaker 2: Most importantly, you are you, You are here, and that 23 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 2: makes this stuff they don't want you to know. Peak 24 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:38,680 Speaker 2: behind the curtain here as we begin Mission Control, Noel 25 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:45,040 Speaker 2: and I have all returned from a vacation of sorts. Now. 26 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:50,800 Speaker 2: As you know, Noel, despite our constant haranguing, mission Control 27 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:55,000 Speaker 2: prefers to be the non audible power behind the stuff 28 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 2: they don't want you to know, thrown but assures. 29 00:01:57,440 --> 00:02:00,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, Ben, that phrase literally flashed across my mind before 30 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:03,440 Speaker 1: you said it. Paul is indeed the power behind the throne. 31 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 1: I love that you said that. That's you read my mind. Amazing. 32 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:09,800 Speaker 2: So we want you to know that. Paul has assured 33 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:13,280 Speaker 2: us that he had adventures of his own stories for 34 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:15,840 Speaker 2: another day. And Noel, I wanted to check in with 35 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:18,120 Speaker 2: you before we continue. How is your time? 36 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 1: Was your time off? It was good? Oh? Thanks Ben? Yeah. 37 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:22,840 Speaker 1: I mean, like I've mentioned before, I just moved into 38 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 1: a new place and had been kind of, you know, 39 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 1: doing it in dribs and drabs getting it all set 40 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 1: up and got some furniture delivered. But I was able 41 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:32,519 Speaker 1: to really focus and get the majority of the place 42 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 1: really livable. And I'm speaking to you from my now 43 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:40,679 Speaker 1: fully ensconced studio with all my little toys and guitars, 44 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:42,239 Speaker 1: and I got a drum kit in here now on 45 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:44,919 Speaker 1: a couch and a living room's nice. My bedroom still 46 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 1: full of boxes, but yeah, no, I just go in 47 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:48,920 Speaker 1: there to sleep. So it's like it's I don't feel 48 00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:52,080 Speaker 1: compelled to hurry along with that one. 49 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:57,080 Speaker 2: How about you, Ben, Yeah, I've had some you don't like, Paul, 50 00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 2: have had some story for Another Day adventures, some of 51 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 2: which might come into play in future episodes, and don't 52 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 2: want to spoil quite yet. But it's all fine, because 53 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 2: everybody emerged more or less. 54 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 1: Okay. 55 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:15,520 Speaker 2: One segue I was thinking about for this episode is 56 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 2: that when we move physically, we also move symbolically, and 57 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:23,720 Speaker 2: it's a powerful act. It makes us aware of how 58 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:26,840 Speaker 2: much stuff we have and how much stuff we've lost. 59 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 2: And as any longtime listener of our show knows, fellow 60 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 2: conspiracy realists, you are aware by now that the human 61 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 2: species has a profound and troubling history of losing communities, cities, 62 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 2: entire civilizations sometimes, and these sometimes become the subject of 63 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 2: later legends and myths, only to be rediscovered centuries or 64 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 2: millennia later. Today, we're exploring something different because our collective 65 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 2: history is also full of cities or communities or neighborhoods 66 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:03,080 Speaker 2: that went missing, not due to pandemics, not due to 67 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 2: natural disasters or so called acts of God, but instead 68 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 2: due to purposeful acts of human beings. This is the 69 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 2: story of a destroyed community, and unlike the story of 70 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:16,600 Speaker 2: the se Techaw or the City of Troy or other 71 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 2: communities of old, this story is much much more recent 72 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:24,279 Speaker 2: than most people would like to admit, and odds are 73 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:28,559 Speaker 2: it's safe to assume that a lot of people haven't 74 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:32,040 Speaker 2: heard of this. We didn't hear this story, Noel, until 75 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 2: we received an excellent email from fellow conspiracy realist Looping Band. 76 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, so why don't we get right into it? 77 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:42,000 Speaker 2: Yes, here are the facts. 78 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 1: So, as you hear Ben say at the beginning of 79 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:48,280 Speaker 1: every one of our episodes, we know and have seen 80 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:52,720 Speaker 1: firsthand that history is riddled with unexplained events, and often 81 00:04:53,640 --> 00:05:00,320 Speaker 1: history is also riddled with kind of crappy, obscured events, 82 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:05,240 Speaker 1: things that authorities, people in power, from the federal government 83 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 1: to your local school you know, superintendent, would rather keep 84 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 1: you in the dark about. In the United States, a 85 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:17,120 Speaker 1: great example would be this idea of Black Wall Street 86 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:23,480 Speaker 1: and the Tulsa massacre of nineteen twenty one. Ben, this 87 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 1: is something that you turned me onto, this idea of 88 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 1: black wall streets, and something I was very much not 89 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:29,680 Speaker 1: familiar with. But a lot of people across the planet 90 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:34,560 Speaker 1: and the US itself only learned of this massacre because 91 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 1: of the series Watchmen on HBO that we've talked about 92 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:40,479 Speaker 1: at length on the show, and the Tulsa massacre plays 93 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:43,800 Speaker 1: a very important role in the story. Ben, can you 94 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:45,680 Speaker 1: tell us a little bit about what went down? 95 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:49,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, and no, I think this is a great way 96 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:52,800 Speaker 2: to get into the crazy part of today's topic. So 97 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 2: here's what happened on a high level. After World War One, Tulsa, Oklahoma, 98 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:03,160 Speaker 2: became known for its affluent African American community. This community 99 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 2: thrived against massive, brutal, systemic oppression. Most of the ten 100 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:12,360 Speaker 2: thousand black residents of Tulsa lived in one neighborhood, the 101 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:17,279 Speaker 2: Greenwood District, and because of its incredibly successful business district, 102 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:22,120 Speaker 2: it became known as Black Wall Street. But astute listeners, 103 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:26,800 Speaker 2: you'll notice that we are speaking in past tense. So, Noel, 104 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 2: what happened to Black Wall Street? Why aren't we speaking 105 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:31,039 Speaker 2: in present tense? 106 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:34,839 Speaker 1: Now? Yeah, it's exactly what you described at the top 107 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 1: of the show ben it was essentially eradicated from existence 108 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 1: because of the influence of those that would prefer it 109 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:46,280 Speaker 1: have never existed in the first place. On May the 110 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:48,680 Speaker 1: thirtieth of nineteen twenty one, a young black man named 111 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 1: Dick Roland was writing in an elevator in the Drexel 112 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:55,280 Speaker 1: building at Third in Maine there in Tulsa, along with 113 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:57,840 Speaker 1: the elevator operator, because that was a thing back then, 114 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:01,640 Speaker 1: and that person was a white woman by the name 115 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:07,480 Speaker 1: of Sarah Page. And the actual details of what is 116 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 1: alleged to have occurred between these two people very There's 117 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 1: a lot of hearsay, but ultimately we are told of 118 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 1: accounts of some sort of incident and this spread like 119 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 1: wildfire within Tulsa's white community. And it's the same way 120 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 1: like you see now, you know, especially when it's negative, 121 00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:35,960 Speaker 1: people are so quick to spread these fake news stories. 122 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 1: And I say fake news not in the loaded way 123 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:43,240 Speaker 1: that maybe is used rhetorically by certain members of our government, 124 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:47,880 Speaker 1: but actual fake news that's written and intended to obscure 125 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 1: or to deceive. And if it's negative or it's about 126 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:54,000 Speaker 1: if it's something that supports your narrative, people are very 127 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:57,000 Speaker 1: quick to just boom, click share. You gotta be really careful. 128 00:07:57,040 --> 00:07:59,280 Speaker 1: You got to do your homework before you become that person. 129 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:01,560 Speaker 1: You don't want to be that person. But a lot 130 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 1: of people here in Tulsa were that person and spread 131 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 1: this story all across the community. And every time it 132 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 1: was told, like a like a sick game of telephone, 133 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:16,360 Speaker 1: it became worse and more exaggerated and more egregious, the 134 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:22,320 Speaker 1: details more lurid, and the police White, of course, arrested 135 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 1: Dick roll In the very next day, and that same day, 136 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:29,040 Speaker 1: May thirty first, the Tulsa Tribune ran and absolutely bonkers 137 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:33,720 Speaker 1: and of course biased a report of the events. 138 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:34,520 Speaker 3: Right. 139 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, So in the elevator incident, the bare bones report 140 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 2: seems to be that this young man could have done 141 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:49,439 Speaker 2: something as simple as accidentally bump into the elevator operator 142 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 2: or he stepped on her foot or something like that. 143 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:55,760 Speaker 2: But as you said, Noel, over a span of just 144 00:08:55,800 --> 00:09:00,160 Speaker 2: a few hours, really this turned into like a a 145 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 2: full on lurid story of assault. And this sparked a 146 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:10,040 Speaker 2: confrontation between armed groups gathered around the courthouse. The local 147 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:13,560 Speaker 2: authorities barricaded Roland at the top floor of the courthouse, 148 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:17,000 Speaker 2: and these groups, as you can imagine, were divided by race, 149 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:20,439 Speaker 2: but they were also divided by aim. The white mob, 150 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:22,800 Speaker 2: which was getting bigger and bigger as time went on, 151 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:27,480 Speaker 2: wanted to murder Roland that day, but they were met 152 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 2: by a group of twenty five armed black men, many 153 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:35,080 Speaker 2: of whom were veterans from World War One. These veterans 154 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:39,480 Speaker 2: were not antagonizing this mob, It's important to note this. Instead, 155 00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:42,320 Speaker 2: they were going to the local authorities, the sheriff, and 156 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:45,280 Speaker 2: they said, you know, there's a very real and immediate 157 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:50,080 Speaker 2: threat of this mob taking this kid and torturing him 158 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:52,200 Speaker 2: and then killing them. We are here to help you. 159 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 2: The sheriff said no, and then then we can only 160 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:00,600 Speaker 2: imagine the sheriff had to eat his words because that 161 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:04,040 Speaker 2: white mob turned their attention away from the courthouse and 162 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:07,320 Speaker 2: they tried to break into the National Guard armory nearby. 163 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:11,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, and then you had these two kind of contingents colliding. 164 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 1: When a reformed group of seventy five armed black men returned, 165 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:20,080 Speaker 1: the white mob, which was about fifteen hundred strong, clearly 166 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 1: outnumbering the black group, and the group seeking to protect 167 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:29,040 Speaker 1: Roland had to retreat to the Greenwood District, that area 168 00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:32,760 Speaker 1: where many of these affluent black members of the community lived. 169 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 1: So In June first of nineteen twenty one, members of 170 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:39,640 Speaker 1: the white mob, along with so many hangers on and 171 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:45,640 Speaker 1: opportunists and looters, white looters, sacked the Greenwood District and 172 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:50,160 Speaker 1: attempted to completely eradicate it, burning into the ground. The 173 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:53,880 Speaker 1: governor at the time, Robertson, declared a state of martial law. 174 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 1: This is all sounding early familiar. Unfortunately, given the current 175 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:02,640 Speaker 1: state of a events here in the United States. The 176 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:07,679 Speaker 1: National Guard was called in. They assisted firemen and putting 177 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:11,839 Speaker 1: out the flames. They arrested some of the African Americans 178 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:18,679 Speaker 1: from these absolutely you know, bloodthirsty vigilantes what they referred 179 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:21,000 Speaker 1: to themselves as, as though they were seeking some sort 180 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:26,280 Speaker 1: of out you know, wild west outlawed twisted justice. And 181 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:30,640 Speaker 1: then they imprisoned every single black resident of Tulsa that 182 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:35,680 Speaker 1: hadn't already been arrested. That's over six thousand people who 183 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:38,960 Speaker 1: were held against their will for up to eight days 184 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:44,120 Speaker 1: at a convention center on the fair grounds of the town. 185 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:49,720 Speaker 2: That's right, and needless to say, these people who were arrested, 186 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:54,840 Speaker 2: who were you know, innocent of crimes, were denied, you know, 187 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 2: the basic things one would expect incarceration in theory, you know, food, water, 188 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:04,239 Speaker 2: restroom facilities, and so on. Let's look at the aftermath. 189 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:08,280 Speaker 2: All of this means that within only twenty four hours 190 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:12,800 Speaker 2: after this pandemonium erupted, thirty five city blocks were in 191 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:16,720 Speaker 2: total ruin. Over eight hundred people were treated for injury, 192 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:19,640 Speaker 2: which means of course that many more were injured and 193 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:24,319 Speaker 2: unable or unwilling to seek medical attention. The death toll 194 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:28,200 Speaker 2: was estimated at the time to be thirty six, but 195 00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:33,640 Speaker 2: today historians believe around three hundred people died, if not more. 196 00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:39,839 Speaker 2: Thousands lost their livelihoods and homes this massacre. Oddly enough, 197 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:44,400 Speaker 2: even though thousands of people had their lives rereparably damaged, 198 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:48,000 Speaker 2: this massacre was not really reported in the national media, 199 00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 2: definitely not an accurate way, and today it remains one 200 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:56,080 Speaker 2: of the worst again officially acknowledged incidents of racial violence 201 00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:59,560 Speaker 2: in US history. But it's just one example. 202 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:03,199 Speaker 1: Yeah, and there are others, and one of them is 203 00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 1: the topic of today's episode, and it's something we like, 204 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:09,160 Speaker 1: we said at the top of the show, neither of 205 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:13,520 Speaker 1: us were familiar with a community in Halifax, Nova Scotia, 206 00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:15,560 Speaker 1: known as Africville. 207 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:19,920 Speaker 2: So what happened to Africville. We'll explore this after a 208 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:31,200 Speaker 2: word from our sponsor. Here's where it gets crazy. If 209 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:34,200 Speaker 2: you were like us and you're from the United States, 210 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:37,640 Speaker 2: odds are you may have never heard of Africville. Like 211 00:13:37,679 --> 00:13:42,440 Speaker 2: you said, No, this community was located in Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada. 212 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:45,760 Speaker 2: It was founded in the early eighteen hundreds. It's often 213 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:50,120 Speaker 2: described as one of the first free black communities outside 214 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:55,800 Speaker 2: of the African continent. By nineteen sixty, it was raised 215 00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:57,719 Speaker 2: to the ground. 216 00:13:59,600 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 1: Series. 217 00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:03,880 Speaker 2: It didn't happen as quickly as the Tulsa massacre, but 218 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:04,840 Speaker 2: it happened. 219 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:07,120 Speaker 1: So what gives? 220 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:11,520 Speaker 2: What's the what's the history of this community? 221 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:15,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, I've seen it referred to as well as as 222 00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:18,240 Speaker 1: like a settlement, which is interesting because I mean, it 223 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 1: really was sort of a very self sufficient community, but 224 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:29,680 Speaker 1: they did depend on some services from the city of Halifax. 225 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:33,520 Speaker 1: We'll get into what that relationship kind of deteriorated into 226 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:37,280 Speaker 1: in just a second. But from eighteen forty to eighteen sixty, 227 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:42,240 Speaker 1: Nova Scotia was actually the last stop on the underground railroad. 228 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:46,080 Speaker 1: So while Africville was certainly a better place for many 229 00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 1: than where they had come from. It was still poor 230 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:54,160 Speaker 1: and still quite oppressed. The local government never provided them 231 00:14:54,160 --> 00:15:00,520 Speaker 1: with basic amenities sewage, you know, water, electricity and snow plowing, 232 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 1: because let's not forget this is in the Great White North. 233 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:08,600 Speaker 1: And the community reached its population peaked by nineteen seventeen. 234 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:13,280 Speaker 1: Only about four hundred people lived there during the time 235 00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:16,800 Speaker 1: of a very important event in the history of Halifax 236 00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:20,640 Speaker 1: Nova Scotia, the Halifax explosion, which took place on December 237 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 1: sixth of nineteen seventeen. 238 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:27,680 Speaker 2: No, yeah, this is insane. So it's a tail of 239 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 2: two ships instead of the tail of two cities. 240 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 1: Right. 241 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 2: The SS mont Blanc is a French cargo ship. It's 242 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:39,280 Speaker 2: carrying hazmat hazardous materials we call them today. It's carrying 243 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:43,160 Speaker 2: a bunch of explosives. It collides with a Norwegian vessel 244 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:47,720 Speaker 2: called the ss Imo or Emo Imo. I hope it 245 00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:51,360 Speaker 2: wasn't the Emo, but that would be funny though. What happened, though, 246 00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:55,640 Speaker 2: was anything but humorous. When this friendship collides with this 247 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:59,880 Speaker 2: Norwegian ship, it happens in a straight connecting Upper Hall 248 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:03,880 Speaker 2: Facts Harbor to something called the Bedford Basin. A fire 249 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:06,600 Speaker 2: breaks out on the French ship it ignites the cargo, 250 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 2: and this causes a massive explosion, the equivalent of two 251 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:14,760 Speaker 2: point nine kilo tons of T and T. It kills 252 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:18,720 Speaker 2: around two thousand people and at least nine thousand other 253 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:23,440 Speaker 2: people are injured. Africville is located on the southern shore 254 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:27,560 Speaker 2: of the Bedford Basin, and due to topology in the area, 255 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 2: it's partially shielded from the direct blast, but that doesn't 256 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 2: mean it's completely shielded. Multiple structures in this area are 257 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 2: destroyed or so heavily damaged that they're unusable. And you know, 258 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:44,720 Speaker 2: to the point about self sufficiency that you made earlier, Nol, 259 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:48,200 Speaker 2: it makes sense because a lot of these buildings were 260 00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:50,520 Speaker 2: constructed by the people who are living in them. 261 00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:53,080 Speaker 1: That's right. And I saw a great documentary If you 262 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 1: just google Africville on YouTube, it's the longest thing that 263 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:57,680 Speaker 1: comes up. It's like thirty five minute documentary that the 264 00:16:57,720 --> 00:17:01,920 Speaker 1: Canadian Broadcasting Service may. It feels like it was in 265 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:04,000 Speaker 1: the late seventies or something. It's got that look, but 266 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:07,800 Speaker 1: it starts off interviewing like multi generational families that lived 267 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 1: in Efricville and like grew up there. Because again it 268 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 1: was nineteen seventeen. It had a history, and people say 269 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:17,600 Speaker 1: when people ask you, the question put to these former residents, 270 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:19,680 Speaker 1: when people ask you where you're from, what do you say, 271 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:22,360 Speaker 1: and they say Africville. They don't say Canada, they don't 272 00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:24,920 Speaker 1: say Nova Scotia, they don't say Halifax. They say Africville. 273 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:28,760 Speaker 1: Because it really had this identity all of its own, 274 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:32,280 Speaker 1: and they were proud of it. They were proud of 275 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:35,199 Speaker 1: their community. They like you said, Ben, they did the 276 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:37,080 Speaker 1: best that they could with what they had. They built 277 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 1: their own homes. But in the greater community outside of Africville, 278 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:47,760 Speaker 1: it was unfairly characterized as a slum. There was this 279 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:51,080 Speaker 1: kind of notion that it was hated by the members 280 00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:53,399 Speaker 1: of the community. But when you actually talk to people, 281 00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:56,399 Speaker 1: and the people have seen interviewed in this documentary, no 282 00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:58,520 Speaker 1: one says that. It's just the people in power that 283 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:00,320 Speaker 1: say that. It's a narrative they try I had to 284 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:04,680 Speaker 1: create to justify what they ultimately what they ultimately did, 285 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:09,879 Speaker 1: which we'll get to. So the local government in question 286 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:13,639 Speaker 1: here had already begun arguing the community should be destroyed 287 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:17,080 Speaker 1: to make room for industrial development. Oh, all of a sudden, 288 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:20,360 Speaker 1: they realized they've got some prime real estate and something 289 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:23,520 Speaker 1: better to do with it that could maybe enrich the 290 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:26,560 Speaker 1: community more in their eyes in a way that was meaningful. 291 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:29,399 Speaker 1: And so in the wake of this disaster, the people 292 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:31,960 Speaker 1: of the community didn't get anything in the way of 293 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:35,800 Speaker 1: recovery assistance. They also got no police or fire protection, 294 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:38,720 Speaker 1: and they still had to pay taxes. And other parts 295 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:42,080 Speaker 1: of the city, yeah, received tons of help in terms of, like, 296 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:45,560 Speaker 1: you know, recovering from this horrific event. And after the explosion, 297 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:48,960 Speaker 1: the city of Halifax itself continued what you could describe 298 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:53,679 Speaker 1: as systematic efforts to make Africville a bad place to 299 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:57,040 Speaker 1: live and then demonizing it, you know, with this rhetoric 300 00:18:57,080 --> 00:18:58,760 Speaker 1: and this idea of it being a slum and we 301 00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:01,280 Speaker 1: have to do something about it. But it was basically 302 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:04,960 Speaker 1: like them commenting on what they themselves had wrought upon 303 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:06,000 Speaker 1: this community, right. 304 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:11,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, I'm being too charitable with could be described 305 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 2: as systematic effort there, because it is, and it was 306 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 2: to dovetail in the earlier point you were making about 307 00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:26,720 Speaker 2: the discrepancy between what the people who lived their experience 308 00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:29,920 Speaker 2: and what the city's official line was and had always 309 00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:34,120 Speaker 2: been just follow the money, you know what I mean, 310 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:38,480 Speaker 2: whether it's a war, whether it's a moral crusade. Follow 311 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:42,800 Speaker 2: the money. Ultimately, there's a financial motive there, and this 312 00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:46,040 Speaker 2: was an opportunity. I want to be very clear. No 313 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:50,400 Speaker 2: one's saying that the Halifax explosion itself was planned or 314 00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:55,159 Speaker 2: you know, even meant to in any way effect the 315 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:59,320 Speaker 2: people of Affortville, but the city of Halifax certainly took 316 00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:06,280 Speaker 2: advantage of the opportunity. They started aggressively making this a 317 00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:13,600 Speaker 2: bad place to live. Beforehand, they were degrading Africville through 318 00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:18,480 Speaker 2: what I would describe as willful, purposeful neglect. But now 319 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:21,840 Speaker 2: they started being more aggressive and assertive and belligerent about it. 320 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:26,240 Speaker 2: They built a hospital for World War two veterans, but 321 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:29,560 Speaker 2: not just any World War two veterans, specifically World War 322 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:34,800 Speaker 2: two veterans with various contagious diseases. And there's no real 323 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:38,800 Speaker 2: hygienic practice at the time. So this exposes the community 324 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:41,080 Speaker 2: to this. But that's not the only thing they were 325 00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:41,600 Speaker 2: exposed to. 326 00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like adding insult to injury. Halifax decided, oh, 327 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:50,560 Speaker 1: this would be a great site for a toxic waste dump. Wow, 328 00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:52,960 Speaker 1: they're really laying and on. 329 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:58,240 Speaker 2: Thick and you can see the residents, one of whom 330 00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:02,240 Speaker 2: we'll meet later. In this episode, the residents often had 331 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:08,439 Speaker 2: to go through this dump for honestly, just scavenge to 332 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:10,280 Speaker 2: find things to sell. 333 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:11,119 Speaker 1: You know. 334 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:13,440 Speaker 2: It's it's very rough situation. 335 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:16,000 Speaker 1: That's right. And there actually is footage of this, all 336 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:17,960 Speaker 1: of this in the documentary that I mentioned. I highly 337 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:20,040 Speaker 1: recommend checking it out because it's all you know, you 338 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:22,400 Speaker 1: can see the dump. It's this is not hyperbole. It's 339 00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 1: literally a sludgy, toxic, you know mess. Also, you know, 340 00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:29,959 Speaker 1: it's it's sort of a catch all dump. You got 341 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 1: your toxic stuff, you got your like, you know, scrap metal, 342 00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:35,760 Speaker 1: you know. But you're right, I mean they were so 343 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:40,040 Speaker 1: put upon and unable to turn a living people were 344 00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:42,320 Speaker 1: you know, there's there's a there's a gentleman in the 345 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:44,560 Speaker 1: in the in the in the dock who says, I 346 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:47,800 Speaker 1: was seeing my brothers, you know, scavenging in the dump 347 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:50,919 Speaker 1: every day and it was just you know, painful, and 348 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:55,720 Speaker 1: that level of pain led to folks starting to just leave. 349 00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:59,040 Speaker 1: It's time to move on, and you know, it was 350 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:02,679 Speaker 1: it was when the rats started showing up that things 351 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:07,760 Speaker 1: really took a turn. The gentleman you mentioned, ben Eddie Carvery, 352 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:11,000 Speaker 1: who grew up there. There's a quote we have from 353 00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:13,600 Speaker 1: him that is pretty disturbing and it really gives you 354 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:15,719 Speaker 1: a sense of what it would have been like to 355 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:17,200 Speaker 1: live in this place at the time. 356 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, Eddie Carvery, who is in you can see a 357 00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 2: multiple documentaries. He grew up there, as you said, Noel, 358 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:32,560 Speaker 2: and he witnessed first hand the successful efforts of Halifax 359 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:37,200 Speaker 2: to depopulate Africville. In this quote describing the rats, he says, 360 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:40,920 Speaker 2: the hospital would just dump their raw garbage on the dump, 361 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:45,320 Speaker 2: bloody body parts, blankets and everything. We were subject to that, 362 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:48,119 Speaker 2: and then they would burn this dump every so often. 363 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:51,040 Speaker 2: There would be walls of fire and toxic smoke, and 364 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:53,480 Speaker 2: we used to run through that fire to get the 365 00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:57,359 Speaker 2: metals before they melted because we scavenged the dump. We 366 00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:01,160 Speaker 2: had to. You had to do that too survive. 367 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:01,760 Speaker 1: In a way. 368 00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:05,159 Speaker 2: You know, what this reminds me of is the practice 369 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:10,159 Speaker 2: of ship breaking. There are places in you know, everybody's 370 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:13,080 Speaker 2: kind of aware of large water going vessels, cargo ships 371 00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:17,320 Speaker 2: and stuff. When those things are decommissioned, sometimes they are 372 00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:22,680 Speaker 2: physically broken down by people who like the boat is 373 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:26,480 Speaker 2: run aground, and then people have to go through and 374 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:29,280 Speaker 2: scavenge and break it down. And they're like paid per 375 00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:35,800 Speaker 2: kilo and typically will end up contracting horrible medical conditions 376 00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:38,480 Speaker 2: from exposure to stuff like this. I mean this may 377 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:42,320 Speaker 2: be even worse because of the burning, right, Like the 378 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:45,560 Speaker 2: smoke means that you don't have to be at the site. 379 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:48,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, you get a wicked case of tetanus or worse, 380 00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:52,640 Speaker 1: you know. And yeah, like we were alluding to earlier, 381 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:58,720 Speaker 1: the rats just became an absolute nightmare, an utter infestation 382 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:04,119 Speaker 1: that the population ballooning, and Halifax was having none of 383 00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:07,720 Speaker 1: it in terms of helping. The residents of Affickville found 384 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:13,680 Speaker 1: themselves in just an absolute, like nightmarish perfect storm for 385 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:19,600 Speaker 1: a plague. I mean really just absolutely biblical horrible stuff. 386 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:24,000 Speaker 1: When the rats began to infiltrate white neighborhoods. Mind you, 387 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:27,560 Speaker 1: the city finally stepped in to address the problem by 388 00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:32,639 Speaker 1: dousing the dump at Africville in rat poison. Cool. But 389 00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:36,919 Speaker 1: now it's like, how do you make a toxic waste 390 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 1: dump worse? You'd cover it in rat poison? Shit, I 391 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:44,600 Speaker 1: don't know. This is just this is a real, real 392 00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:45,320 Speaker 1: saga here. 393 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:50,440 Speaker 2: Meanwhile, the larger government of Canada is completely ignoring what's 394 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:52,960 Speaker 2: happening here. By the way, and we're not unless we 395 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:56,120 Speaker 2: sound like we're picking on Canada. This isn't a more 396 00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:59,639 Speaker 2: obscure case or was it the time, But make no mistake, 397 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 2: things like this are happening in multiple countries around the world, 398 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:09,359 Speaker 2: right and and to your point, now the population is 399 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:13,399 Speaker 2: breathing this poison in Uh. You know, numerous people are 400 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:16,080 Speaker 2: saying like even if we even if we try to 401 00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:18,679 Speaker 2: avoid the dump, this is still getting all over our 402 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:22,320 Speaker 2: air or clothing. And now we see something that happens 403 00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:25,520 Speaker 2: in a lot of small communities with exposure to these 404 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:31,440 Speaker 2: kind of chemicals. Uh, the real dangerous effects are things 405 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:33,400 Speaker 2: that people might not have seen at the time, even 406 00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:37,200 Speaker 2: the people spreading the rat poison. It's it's a it's 407 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:40,840 Speaker 2: a problem that crops up like agent orange years after 408 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:44,399 Speaker 2: the fact, right years after exposure, we start noticing people 409 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:45,119 Speaker 2: getting cancer. 410 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:49,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, it reminds me of the Santa Susana nuclear research 411 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:52,880 Speaker 1: site in the episode we did not terribly long ago. Yeah, 412 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:54,640 Speaker 1: you don't find out about that stuff until way later, 413 00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:57,359 Speaker 1: and at the time you don't really associate it with 414 00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:00,159 Speaker 1: with that with your with your with your environment. At 415 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:02,919 Speaker 1: this time especially might not have even been something that 416 00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:06,879 Speaker 1: people were widely aware of, but there it is. And 417 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:11,080 Speaker 1: so when the rats am the toxic dump weren't enough 418 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:15,200 Speaker 1: to get residents to leave, Halifax decided that the area 419 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:19,640 Speaker 1: was officially an uninhabitable slum, which is a term that 420 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:24,480 Speaker 1: they're already using just in you know, passing referring to 421 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:27,639 Speaker 1: the place like with these meetings, and the city began 422 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:31,000 Speaker 1: to just tear the neighborhood down and force the remaining 423 00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:35,320 Speaker 1: residents to relocate. In sixty four mainteen sixty four, the 424 00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:39,680 Speaker 1: neighborhood was entirely demolished and members of the community received 425 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:44,199 Speaker 1: You know, it's like if if a developer comes in 426 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:46,760 Speaker 1: and wants to buy your house, you know that might 427 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:50,479 Speaker 1: be one deal. This is going to be, you know, 428 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:52,800 Speaker 1: based on all kinds of factors, and it's going to 429 00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:56,720 Speaker 1: be a variety of different amounts of compensation, likely not 430 00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:01,560 Speaker 1: fair at all. And some of the houses were bulldozed 431 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:03,160 Speaker 1: with people still inside them. 432 00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:06,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, think about that. So we always hear that old 433 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,959 Speaker 2: figure of speech in real estate what matters location and 434 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:13,600 Speaker 2: location and location in that order. So the City of 435 00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:18,240 Speaker 2: Halifax has done everything it can to make this location terrible. 436 00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:21,480 Speaker 2: So if they pay people or compensate them for their 437 00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:26,120 Speaker 2: property based on the market value of the property. Well, 438 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:30,679 Speaker 2: that market value has been destroyed. And bulldozing houses with 439 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:34,560 Speaker 2: people inside them doesn't sound like something that should be 440 00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:36,800 Speaker 2: happening in the nineteen sixties. 441 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:37,800 Speaker 1: But there we are. 442 00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:40,200 Speaker 2: This has been that. Here's where it gets crazy part. 443 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:43,959 Speaker 2: But this is all factual. None of this is speculation 444 00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:47,600 Speaker 2: zero percent. We're going to pause for word from our sponsor, 445 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:51,600 Speaker 2: and then let's explore the aftermath because the story of 446 00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:54,480 Speaker 2: Africville is not quite over. 447 00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:07,520 Speaker 1: And we're back. Since Africville was destroyed, Eddie Carvery, former resident, 448 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:13,240 Speaker 1: began protesting. He started his protest on the original site 449 00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:19,159 Speaker 1: of the neighborhood in nineteen seventy, living in what later 450 00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:24,280 Speaker 1: was renamed to Seaview Park, and he stayed there on 451 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:27,280 Speaker 1: and off for over twenty five years before making international news. 452 00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:33,960 Speaker 1: When G seven visited Halifax in nineteen ninety five, the 453 00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:36,320 Speaker 1: city tried to get rid of him, as well as 454 00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:37,119 Speaker 1: his brother Victor. 455 00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:42,480 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, so the Carvery brothers, Eddie and Victor have 456 00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:47,240 Speaker 2: been have been struggling with a lot of things. You know, 457 00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:50,160 Speaker 2: if you see the if you see some of the 458 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:55,200 Speaker 2: video footage of the Eddie is definitely sort of the 459 00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:58,720 Speaker 2: last man standing in the protest and has been waging 460 00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:02,719 Speaker 2: this protest for as you said, decades, and at times 461 00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:05,920 Speaker 2: he's been sleeping rough just in the area because he 462 00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:10,160 Speaker 2: wants to keep it there in the in the location, 463 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:15,240 Speaker 2: the former location of Africville. And eventually the brothers did 464 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:21,960 Speaker 2: move and lived more off of the site of Africville, 465 00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:26,560 Speaker 2: but they continued to travel to the community and protest 466 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:31,120 Speaker 2: like literally pretty much every day where the community school 467 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:36,480 Speaker 2: once stood. If you want to learn more about Eddie Carvery, 468 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:40,000 Speaker 2: you can check out these documentaries we've mentioned. You can 469 00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:43,120 Speaker 2: also check out John Tattrey's work. It's called The Hermit 470 00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:47,480 Speaker 2: of Africville. It was published in twenty ten. And that's 471 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:51,040 Speaker 2: to me, that's one of the craziest things. The timeline 472 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:55,040 Speaker 2: about this history tried to forget this for a long time. 473 00:29:55,800 --> 00:30:00,200 Speaker 2: You know, we're looking back at at the turn of 474 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:03,920 Speaker 2: the nineteenth century and now we're well into the twenty 475 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:09,040 Speaker 2: first century and this is still continuing. People haven't been 476 00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:13,520 Speaker 2: compensated for their land, let alone their medical conditions. Eddie 477 00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:18,400 Speaker 2: Carvery was for a large part of his entire life, 478 00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:20,719 Speaker 2: he was just trying to get people to listen to 479 00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:24,680 Speaker 2: what was happening, which speaks to I think it speaks 480 00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:29,280 Speaker 2: highly to his character, but it is a resounding condemnation 481 00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:31,120 Speaker 2: of the government of Halifax. 482 00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:33,720 Speaker 1: I just want to restate too. I think we said 483 00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:36,600 Speaker 1: it at the top pretty well, but just when these 484 00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:41,600 Speaker 1: black settlers came over, you know, to this part of Canada, 485 00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:46,560 Speaker 1: it wasn't like they immediately, you know, created this settlement. 486 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:49,840 Speaker 1: They were forced to because they weren't accepted in the 487 00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:52,440 Speaker 1: rest of the community in the surrounding area, so they 488 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:55,240 Speaker 1: had to They were kind of pushed onto what would 489 00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:59,360 Speaker 1: be considered less desirable land. And then of course when 490 00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:02,440 Speaker 1: the tide turned and all of a sudden, you know, 491 00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:05,640 Speaker 1: there's a use for this land. It's like, okay, sorry, 492 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:07,480 Speaker 1: I know we're the ones who put you here in 493 00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:12,000 Speaker 1: the first place, but you know, we need what you're 494 00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:13,880 Speaker 1: living on, and we're going to make your life a 495 00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:17,120 Speaker 1: living hell. And there's really great writing about this as 496 00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:20,680 Speaker 1: well in Canadian Museum for Human Rights website, just kind 497 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:23,800 Speaker 1: of a timeline and the story of Africville, And you know, 498 00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:25,920 Speaker 1: I just want to paint a picture too of like 499 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:28,760 Speaker 1: what life really was like when it was at its best. Everyone. 500 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:32,240 Speaker 1: You know, again, this is like a long standing community, 501 00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:36,680 Speaker 1: and people described it as, you know, feeling no sense 502 00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:39,880 Speaker 1: of isolation. There's a quote on this Canadian Museum for 503 00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:44,400 Speaker 1: Human Rights site from a former Affricville resident saying, quote, 504 00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:47,360 Speaker 1: you weren't isolated at any time living in Africville. You 505 00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:50,239 Speaker 1: always felt at home. The doors were always open. That 506 00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:52,120 Speaker 1: is one of the most important things that has stayed 507 00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:55,280 Speaker 1: with me throughout my life. And you know, you can 508 00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:59,480 Speaker 1: see photographs of like the Country Store, and just like 509 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:02,040 Speaker 1: it just seemed kind of like, at the time, an 510 00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:05,800 Speaker 1: idyllic situation that they kind of had to create for themselves. 511 00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:08,760 Speaker 1: And yeah, some of the houses are kind of ramshackle 512 00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:11,560 Speaker 1: and look a little bit like shanty kind of houses, 513 00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:14,800 Speaker 1: but it was obvious that they took great pride in 514 00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:17,719 Speaker 1: it and that they did the repairs with everything they 515 00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:19,640 Speaker 1: had at their disposal and did the best they could. 516 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:22,400 Speaker 1: And then the idea of demonizing it as being some 517 00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:25,840 Speaker 1: kind of slum is just a real misnomer to me. 518 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:27,280 Speaker 3: Mm hm. 519 00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:35,520 Speaker 2: And you know, Halifax has acknowledged Africville after its destruction, 520 00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:39,480 Speaker 2: primarily in twenty ten, the same year the Hermit of 521 00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:45,480 Speaker 2: Africaville published, the Mayor of Halifax officially apologized to the 522 00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:50,640 Speaker 2: former residents of the neighborhood. You know, this is an 523 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:57,120 Speaker 2: important active symbolism, right. This was Mayor Peter Kelly. He said, 524 00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:00,000 Speaker 2: you lost your homes, your church, all the polics and 525 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,320 Speaker 2: which you gathered with your family and friends to share 526 00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:05,880 Speaker 2: and mark the milestones of your lives. For all of that, 527 00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:10,560 Speaker 2: we apologized. But here's what he did. So they did 528 00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:15,000 Speaker 2: put some money behind us. The government of Halifax promised 529 00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:18,680 Speaker 2: three million dollars to build a replica church and what 530 00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:22,760 Speaker 2: they called an interpretive center. But the people who are 531 00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:26,560 Speaker 2: at the crowd when this apology was presented and this 532 00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:30,360 Speaker 2: funding was announced, they were loudly complaining. They said, you know, 533 00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:33,920 Speaker 2: nobody asked us we were residents of Africville or we 534 00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:38,640 Speaker 2: were descended from people from Africville. This settlement, I don't know. 535 00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:41,920 Speaker 2: It seems like too many people it was a token 536 00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:45,920 Speaker 2: gesture because nobody who lost their home is getting any 537 00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:50,720 Speaker 2: further compensation for that loss. You know, I can see 538 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:53,720 Speaker 2: that being a valid point. I think it's all too 539 00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:56,720 Speaker 2: easy for people who aren't involved in a situation to say, well, 540 00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:01,520 Speaker 2: acknowledgment is important and something's better than nothing. But is 541 00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:04,800 Speaker 2: that a symbolic statement? You know, more than an actual one. 542 00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:08,040 Speaker 1: No, I absolutely think you're right, Ben. It's also to 543 00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:11,480 Speaker 1: kind of too little, too late, you know, and you know, 544 00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:16,239 Speaker 1: in a lot of ways. But in again, there is 545 00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:18,200 Speaker 1: sort of a silver lining here. Even beyond that. In 546 00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:22,080 Speaker 1: twenty twelve, the Africville Church was rebuilt and Carvery moved 547 00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:27,160 Speaker 1: his protest to that area, and Carvery, against all odds, 548 00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:30,160 Speaker 1: continues his protest today. 549 00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:34,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, And to be fair, we don't know how long 550 00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:36,040 Speaker 2: this will last, but at the time of this recording, 551 00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:40,799 Speaker 2: he's still protesting. The takeaway from this is that not 552 00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:46,600 Speaker 2: every conspiracy is, you know, someone trying to hide space 553 00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:52,160 Speaker 2: age technology. Not every conspiracy is necessarily, you know, like 554 00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:58,480 Speaker 2: a secret genetic research program or cryptid or paranormal activity. 555 00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:03,879 Speaker 2: All too often conspiracies are real, and they're motivated by 556 00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:08,160 Speaker 2: things like racism or real estate. Right, they're motivated by 557 00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:11,480 Speaker 2: a profit of some sort, and that seems to be 558 00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:15,279 Speaker 2: the case with Africville. And as we said at the top, 559 00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:19,280 Speaker 2: at this point the story continues. We don't know whether 560 00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:22,759 Speaker 2: there will be further action by the government of Halifax, 561 00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:27,600 Speaker 2: you know, the president administration or a future administration, And 562 00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:29,480 Speaker 2: we don't know whether there will be any sort of 563 00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:35,080 Speaker 2: further compensation for the survivors of the neighborhood, of the community, 564 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:38,480 Speaker 2: and we pass the torch to you. Thank you as 565 00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:42,360 Speaker 2: always for tuning in what other cities or communities have 566 00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:45,000 Speaker 2: been destroyed in this manner let us know about the 567 00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:49,400 Speaker 2: hidden history in your neck of the Global woods, because 568 00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:53,080 Speaker 2: one of the strangest and most disturbing things about these 569 00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:56,040 Speaker 2: sorts of stories is we can guarantee you most people 570 00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:58,480 Speaker 2: have not heard of them, and that's probably by design. 571 00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:02,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, let's not forget that. Like the definition. 572 00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:03,600 Speaker 1: I had to kind of look this up because we 573 00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:06,759 Speaker 1: get so wrapped up in the buzzworthiness of conspiracy. And 574 00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:09,719 Speaker 1: again the way it's all, it's been demonized and used 575 00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:12,200 Speaker 1: this kind of a thought terminating cliche as you say, Ben, 576 00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:14,080 Speaker 1: But a conspiracy, at the end of the day, is 577 00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:17,200 Speaker 1: a secret plan made by a group to do something 578 00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:21,000 Speaker 1: unlawful or harmful. Uh, And that's that's what this is. 579 00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:24,760 Speaker 1: This is, you know, cut and dry conspiracy, not theory. 580 00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:30,080 Speaker 1: And but you know is that then you have to 581 00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:32,400 Speaker 1: bring up the question of what is lawful if they 582 00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:35,719 Speaker 1: voted unanimously to do this, you know, on a on 583 00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:41,080 Speaker 1: a city council, a government body. Is it lawful? Whose laws? 584 00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:42,719 Speaker 1: You know? I don't know. I don't want to sound 585 00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:46,520 Speaker 1: like I'm grandstanding here, but I certainly think that if 586 00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:49,680 Speaker 1: a closer look was was paid to this, you could 587 00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:52,799 Speaker 1: definitely find some evidence of wrongdoing and of this not 588 00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:56,960 Speaker 1: being lawful. It reminds me of the way Native Americans 589 00:36:56,960 --> 00:37:00,400 Speaker 1: were treated, you know, like they're they have this land 590 00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:04,080 Speaker 1: that they settled, and then all of a sudden, oh, sorry, 591 00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:06,400 Speaker 1: we own the land. This notion of owning the land 592 00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:10,520 Speaker 1: is such a you know, capitalistic kind of idea, and 593 00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:15,399 Speaker 1: it's something that's just doesn't feel very natural. But yet 594 00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:18,560 Speaker 1: here we are, so yeah, I don't know. I'm interested 595 00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:22,560 Speaker 1: to see where this goes. I'm not particularly hopeful that 596 00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:27,200 Speaker 1: anything positive is going to come of it, but I'm 597 00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:28,960 Speaker 1: really glad we found out about it, and want to 598 00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:31,719 Speaker 1: thank the listener for letting us know. Because you don't 599 00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:34,200 Speaker 1: think about this stuff happening in Canada. You think of 600 00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:37,520 Speaker 1: Canada as being like this, you know, really positive, hunky 601 00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:41,440 Speaker 1: Dory place, neighbors to the north, the kinder gentler, you know, 602 00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:44,920 Speaker 1: weed smoking, you know, hockey players. But there's tons of 603 00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:46,400 Speaker 1: racism in Canada. 604 00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:47,120 Speaker 3: You know. 605 00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:49,160 Speaker 1: I mean you can look it up and see, Like 606 00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:51,960 Speaker 1: I saw a video of someone being attacked on a 607 00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:57,600 Speaker 1: bus in Canada by some racist gentleman, and it's everywhere. 608 00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:00,320 Speaker 1: It's insidious and it's not something that is to go 609 00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:03,120 Speaker 1: away without you know, shedding the light on it. 610 00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:09,280 Speaker 2: The Highway of Tears, the forced dissimilation of First Nations peoples. 611 00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:13,880 Speaker 2: Yet the list goes on. You know, no country is perfect, 612 00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:19,080 Speaker 2: and it's our It's part of I think our purpose 613 00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:23,480 Speaker 2: as people living today, regardless of what country we live in, 614 00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:25,600 Speaker 2: to hold those in power accountable. 615 00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:27,200 Speaker 1: We would like to. 616 00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:31,480 Speaker 2: Hear your stories, let us know about your local hidden history. 617 00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:34,279 Speaker 2: Wherever you're at in the world. You can find us 618 00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:36,560 Speaker 2: on Facebook. You can find us on Instagram. You can 619 00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:39,000 Speaker 2: find us on Twitter. We like to recommend our Facebook 620 00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:42,000 Speaker 2: group Here's where it gets crazy, where you can find 621 00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:44,879 Speaker 2: our favorite part of the show, the most important part, 622 00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:48,320 Speaker 2: that's your fellow listeners. You can also while you're online, 623 00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:50,320 Speaker 2: find us as individuals. 624 00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:52,279 Speaker 1: Yeah, you sure can if you wish. I am at 625 00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:55,200 Speaker 1: how Now Noel Brown on Instagram and you can. 626 00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:58,160 Speaker 2: Find me on Twitter at Ben BULLINHSW. You can also 627 00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:01,880 Speaker 2: find me on Instagram at Ben Bolin and of course 628 00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:06,160 Speaker 2: if you have complaints, corrections or general gripes, we have 629 00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:10,080 Speaker 2: a dedicated email line for that. That is Jonathan Strickland 630 00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:13,760 Speaker 2: at iHeartMedia dot com. But we also have a phone number, 631 00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:14,600 Speaker 2: don't we we do. 632 00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:18,960 Speaker 1: It's one eight three three std WYTK. Leave us a message. 633 00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:23,200 Speaker 1: You might be surprised to hear that this segment of 634 00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:27,279 Speaker 1: our show is going to be making a stunning reappearance 635 00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:31,160 Speaker 1: in a very real way very soon, meaning that you 636 00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:34,200 Speaker 1: could be your voice could be a part of Stuff 637 00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:37,759 Speaker 1: they Don't Want You to Know episodes. It's a three 638 00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:39,840 Speaker 1: minute time limit. You can call back and continue and 639 00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:42,400 Speaker 1: we just stitch them together and just you know, if 640 00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:43,920 Speaker 1: you don't want us to use your name, just make 641 00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:46,960 Speaker 1: sure to let us know. But we we love to 642 00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:50,000 Speaker 1: hear from you and really enjoyed doing the listener mail 643 00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:52,520 Speaker 1: episodes and looking forward to bringing that back very soon. 644 00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:54,480 Speaker 2: And as I like to say, if none of that 645 00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:57,040 Speaker 2: quite bad for badgers, you can only send us an email. 646 00:39:57,400 --> 00:39:58,560 Speaker 2: It's a good old fashion one. 647 00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:20,440 Speaker 1: We are conspiracy se it iHeartRadio dot com. 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