WEBVTT - CLASSIC: How Oliver Cromwell Got Executed Several Years After His Death 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:04.800 Fellow ridiculous historians. A few years back, we got interested 0:00:04.960 --> 0:00:07.320 in a guy named Oliver Cromwell. 0:00:07.480 --> 0:00:08.240 What of a pill? 0:00:08.640 --> 0:00:11.440 Not a nice fellow, bit of a bit of a 0:00:11.480 --> 0:00:12.520 specific guy. 0:00:12.760 --> 0:00:14.880 Not much sense of humor that Oliver Cromwell. 0:00:16.280 --> 0:00:22.240 He got in trouble. He was a Puritan, an ideologue 0:00:22.280 --> 0:00:26.319 more so than a soldier, had no military experience when 0:00:26.400 --> 0:00:29.000 the Civil War broke out in that part of the 0:00:29.040 --> 0:00:32.600 world in sixteen forty two. 0:00:32.200 --> 0:00:35.880 Yep, And he quickly rose in prominence and within the 0:00:36.000 --> 0:00:40.800 ranks and became the Lord Protector and ruled over Wales, 0:00:40.800 --> 0:00:44.080 Scotland and England. He did eventually pass away due to 0:00:44.159 --> 0:00:46.440 natural causes. But this one has a twist. 0:00:46.200 --> 0:00:46.960 Ending too, Ben. 0:00:47.440 --> 0:00:51.560 Oh, that's right, because he was executed posthumously. 0:00:53.200 --> 0:00:56.960 How how, how let's throw the tape fine. 0:00:56.840 --> 0:01:04.360 Now Ridiculous Histories A production of iHeart Radio. Ridiculous Histories 0:01:04.360 --> 0:01:32.400 A production of iHeart Radio. Hello and welcome to the show. 0:01:32.640 --> 0:01:35.959 Have you ever dreamed of toppling the status quo in 0:01:36.040 --> 0:01:38.640 your neck of the global woods? Have you ever thought 0:01:38.640 --> 0:01:43.000 of maybe starting a food fight in school, or you know, 0:01:43.360 --> 0:01:47.040 orchestrating a coup in another country? I feel like all 0:01:47.080 --> 0:01:51.680 of us have had these revolutionary or rebellious thoughts at 0:01:51.720 --> 0:01:54.480 some point. But how far does it go? You know, 0:01:54.960 --> 0:01:56.960 I've gone pretty far. My name is Ben. 0:01:57.440 --> 0:01:59.520 We have come a long way, Ben, just the two 0:01:59.560 --> 0:02:00.880 of us want to look at it on like a 0:02:00.920 --> 0:02:04.080 micro level, but on a macro level. Yeah, I think 0:02:04.120 --> 0:02:06.120 that the human species has come a long way. We 0:02:06.200 --> 0:02:08.600 certainly still oh I'm no, by the way, we certainly 0:02:08.639 --> 0:02:13.560 still you know, have room to grow, but certainly not 0:02:13.639 --> 0:02:16.839 quite running up on the kind of insurgency that let's say, 0:02:16.840 --> 0:02:19.400 like a reign of terror like a robes Pierre situation 0:02:19.480 --> 0:02:23.639 during the French Revolution, or maybe more of a Oliver 0:02:23.800 --> 0:02:28.400 Cromwell kind of situation like in the old UK. 0:02:29.120 --> 0:02:32.639 Yes, yes, it's true. And by the way, shout out 0:02:32.639 --> 0:02:37.079 to our own personal Cromwell super producer, Casey Pegram. 0:02:38.120 --> 0:02:41.520 Ben, he deserves better than that he does. He does. 0:02:41.600 --> 0:02:45.079 He's you know what you deserve to be, Casey Pegrom 0:02:45.320 --> 0:02:47.760 with no comparisons, no equivocations. 0:02:47.919 --> 0:02:50.080 You okay with that, Casey, I'm great with that. 0:02:50.560 --> 0:02:54.440 Yeah, Because, as it turns out, Cromwell, who was kind 0:02:54.440 --> 0:02:57.919 of like a Protestant robes Pierre in many ways, was 0:02:58.000 --> 0:02:58.720 kind of a monster. 0:02:59.000 --> 0:03:03.040 Well. His legacy is still a matter of hot takes 0:03:03.040 --> 0:03:07.239 and controversy here today in twenty nineteen. Some people will 0:03:07.280 --> 0:03:10.839 say he is the father of British democracy, he got 0:03:10.919 --> 0:03:14.239 rid of the monarchy, albeit briefly, And then others will say, 0:03:14.600 --> 0:03:18.959 no way, he's a war criminal. He hated the Catholics 0:03:19.200 --> 0:03:24.160 and he led vicious military campaigns. But regardless of whether 0:03:24.240 --> 0:03:27.880 you are pro or anti Cromwell, there is no denying 0:03:28.280 --> 0:03:32.640 that he changed the course of history in England, Scotland 0:03:32.840 --> 0:03:37.800 and Ireland. Let's learn a little bit about his life. 0:03:37.840 --> 0:03:41.120 What do you say before we get to before we 0:03:41.200 --> 0:03:42.760 get to his death spoiler? 0:03:42.800 --> 0:03:45.480 He's dead, He's dead. Dead is a doornail? Dead is disco. 0:03:45.760 --> 0:03:48.040 I always wonder where dead as a doornail comes from? 0:03:48.120 --> 0:03:50.320 Isn't it from? Uh Dickens? Yeah? 0:03:50.320 --> 0:03:53.680 But what made someone say, you know what I think 0:03:53.720 --> 0:03:55.720 of what I think of death doornails? 0:03:55.760 --> 0:03:58.200 I guess it's just because it's an inanimate object. Yeah, 0:03:58.200 --> 0:04:00.800 but think because said dead is a table, the alliteration 0:04:00.960 --> 0:04:01.360 is key. 0:04:01.720 --> 0:04:08.080 Oh dead as see Yeah, dead is a dumbbell that works. 0:04:08.480 --> 0:04:13.000 But doornails were much more prevalent in the days of Dickens, perhaps. 0:04:12.640 --> 0:04:18.239 So Yeah, Originally all of the titles that Dickens used 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:21.520 in his stories had had the phrase door nail in them. 0:04:21.560 --> 0:04:28.200 It's also true so after fomenting the Parliamentarian uprising over 0:04:28.240 --> 0:04:34.000 the Royalists in the English Civil War, Cromwell became the 0:04:34.120 --> 0:04:38.040 Lord Protector of the Commonwealth of England in sixteen fifty three. 0:04:38.200 --> 0:04:42.160 That's also, of course, after executing Charles the First, who 0:04:42.200 --> 0:04:46.159 was the king at the time, and he ruled over England, 0:04:46.160 --> 0:04:51.200 Scotland and Ireland just for in the grand scale of things, 0:04:51.400 --> 0:04:52.480 time being what it is. 0:04:52.600 --> 0:04:57.120 Blip of time, right right, because he assumed he assumed 0:04:57.160 --> 0:05:00.800 this status as Lord Protector in sixteen fifty three. The 0:05:00.839 --> 0:05:05.560 monarchy itself was restored in sixteen sixty, So this is 0:05:05.680 --> 0:05:08.760 what maybe seven years. 0:05:08.480 --> 0:05:11.360 Why did Cromwell have such a beef with the Catholics? 0:05:11.400 --> 0:05:14.839 Ben, What a great question, nol You see, Oliver Cromwell 0:05:14.960 --> 0:05:17.800 was born at the turn of the seventeenth century and 0:05:17.880 --> 0:05:21.120 when he came into the world, England was a Protestant 0:05:21.200 --> 0:05:24.120 country ruled by a king who believed that he had 0:05:24.200 --> 0:05:28.160 divine rights, meaning he was king because God had purposely 0:05:28.200 --> 0:05:28.800 made him king. 0:05:29.000 --> 0:05:31.400 This was kind of a thing with monarchs in those days, 0:05:31.440 --> 0:05:33.080 like the son king, you know, I mean like a 0:05:33.080 --> 0:05:36.000 lot of divine belief in that they were like the 0:05:36.080 --> 0:05:37.760 extension of God's power on earth. 0:05:38.040 --> 0:05:40.479 It still is. I mean, how well, it's a very 0:05:40.480 --> 0:05:46.080 effective way to bully people into thinking that they have 0:05:46.200 --> 0:05:49.920 some sort of obligation to serve you. Right. So Cromwell 0:05:50.400 --> 0:05:55.520 converted to Puritanism in his late twenties, and he thought 0:05:55.880 --> 0:06:01.440 that King Charles the First was just two Catholic. He said, 0:06:01.560 --> 0:06:04.200 this king is far too Catholic for me. He's a papist, 0:06:04.320 --> 0:06:07.560 which was a smear word at the time. Many of Charles' 0:06:07.600 --> 0:06:11.159 first policies, you see, such as levying taxes without the 0:06:11.200 --> 0:06:17.640 consent of parliament, they made his subjects mistrust him and 0:06:17.720 --> 0:06:20.240 they said, hey, you're not the kind of cultured monarch 0:06:20.279 --> 0:06:23.880 we like. You're one of those tyrannical absolute monarchs. 0:06:24.040 --> 0:06:24.640 Let's not forget. 0:06:24.680 --> 0:06:28.200 This is post Protestant Reformation, where the country was very 0:06:28.279 --> 0:06:31.320 much split. It became largely a Protestant country, and then 0:06:31.520 --> 0:06:36.000 the kings that would come into power they would either 0:06:36.080 --> 0:06:40.240 be heavily Protestant or maybe not quite Protestant enough for 0:06:40.279 --> 0:06:43.400 some people. But it certainly wasn't as popular in general 0:06:43.520 --> 0:06:45.839 to be super Catholic. There was kind of like a 0:06:45.880 --> 0:06:49.320 divide between the Church of Rome and the Church of England. 0:06:49.600 --> 0:06:53.719 Absolutely, so the stage was set for a civil war, 0:06:53.839 --> 0:06:57.080 a series of conflicts occur. King Charles is on the 0:06:57.160 --> 0:07:02.560 losing end of history. He's overthrown executed. Fifty nine people 0:07:02.640 --> 0:07:04.839 signed the death warrant for the king, and one of 0:07:04.839 --> 0:07:10.240 them is Oliver Cromwell. And then they introduce the Commonwealth 0:07:10.280 --> 0:07:14.000 of England to replace the monarchy. I mean, quote unquote 0:07:14.040 --> 0:07:20.840 replace because Cromwell becomes Lord Protector, as we said, but 0:07:21.000 --> 0:07:24.920 Lord Protector is pretty much still a king. It's a monarch, 0:07:25.000 --> 0:07:29.280 you know. The best evidence for that is that when 0:07:29.320 --> 0:07:33.200 Cromwell is done being Lord Protector, his son takes up 0:07:33.240 --> 0:07:33.760 the job. 0:07:34.160 --> 0:07:35.960 Just to jump in here real quick, I was being 0:07:36.440 --> 0:07:38.760 a little bit purposefully hyperbolic at the beginning of the 0:07:38.840 --> 0:07:42.840 show when I compared Oliver Cromwell to Rosepierre, who was 0:07:42.920 --> 0:07:46.960 known for decapitating human people in the streets with the 0:07:47.000 --> 0:07:50.920 famous quillotine. Cromwell was a bit more known for his authoritarian, 0:07:51.000 --> 0:07:54.720 heavy handed rule than he was for bloody executions. But 0:07:54.760 --> 0:07:57.600 we will be getting some bloody executions in this story 0:07:57.720 --> 0:07:58.200 either way. 0:07:58.440 --> 0:08:02.120 So between sixteen fifty sixteen fifty eight or so. He's 0:08:02.240 --> 0:08:05.679 ruling the UK. He has the same powers as a monarch, 0:08:05.720 --> 0:08:09.320 but he's called Lord Protector and he technically doesn't have 0:08:09.360 --> 0:08:13.040 a crown. I don't mean this in some figurative sense. 0:08:13.080 --> 0:08:15.720 I don't mean that he lost any power you would 0:08:15.720 --> 0:08:19.320 get with metonomy or whatever. I mean that he didn't 0:08:19.360 --> 0:08:25.280 have the jewelry. And here he's risen to the apex 0:08:25.320 --> 0:08:27.400 of his life. In the beginning, he was just a 0:08:27.520 --> 0:08:31.600 member of Parliament for Cambridge, but he became a Puritan, 0:08:31.640 --> 0:08:35.640 and then later he becomes Lord Protector, helped in no 0:08:35.720 --> 0:08:40.160 small part by his brilliant military career. You know, he 0:08:40.240 --> 0:08:45.040 was a tactician. He had fought decisive battles, so he 0:08:45.200 --> 0:08:49.080 wasn't out there, you know, doing mass executions. But war 0:08:49.240 --> 0:08:53.000 has no small measure of violence. And while he was 0:08:53.080 --> 0:08:59.280 Lord Protector, he was in a controversial, unsustainable place. Royalists 0:08:59.520 --> 0:09:03.760 hated it. The Royalists were a faction of people who 0:09:03.800 --> 0:09:08.360 believed in the divine right of the king. So if 0:09:08.400 --> 0:09:12.600 you believe that God has decreed a certain person to 0:09:12.640 --> 0:09:15.240 be the absolute ruler of a land, then you are 0:09:15.280 --> 0:09:18.680 going to equate the actions of anybody opposing that king 0:09:18.880 --> 0:09:24.559 to the actions of Unchristian nearly demonic forces, you know 0:09:24.600 --> 0:09:26.920 what I mean. So Cromwell was like a demon made 0:09:26.920 --> 0:09:28.320 flesh to these guys totally. 0:09:28.360 --> 0:09:31.480 And even though Charles I first was not popular because 0:09:31.520 --> 0:09:35.240 he had chosen to marry a French Catholic princess, he 0:09:35.400 --> 0:09:40.640 was still to those royalists the rightful monarch of the realm. 0:09:41.000 --> 0:09:45.920 So in a sense, he replaces this monarchical regime with 0:09:46.160 --> 0:09:51.600 a puritanical republic. But he puts in some ideas that 0:09:52.400 --> 0:09:56.520 seemed very forward facing today and did not go over 0:09:56.559 --> 0:09:59.360 well at the time, which was he had this concept 0:09:59.440 --> 0:10:05.640 of being religiously tolerant, and his contemporaries viewed that with suspicion, 0:10:06.320 --> 0:10:12.079 especially residents of Ireland and Scotland's what we're saying here, folks, 0:10:12.559 --> 0:10:16.520 is that even when he was alive, he was a 0:10:16.640 --> 0:10:24.720 controversial figure. And today's story really really starts when he dies, 0:10:25.240 --> 0:10:28.120 because the last few weeks of his life before he 0:10:28.200 --> 0:10:31.640 passes away in what was a sixteen fifty eight, the 0:10:31.679 --> 0:10:35.640 third of September, right, so right before he passes away, 0:10:36.120 --> 0:10:39.800 he is having a terrible time. He's getting sharp bowel 0:10:39.880 --> 0:10:44.439 and back pains. He has insomnia. He's freezing cold sometimes 0:10:44.480 --> 0:10:47.840 and then just sweating hot other times. His throat hurts, 0:10:47.880 --> 0:10:51.839 he's coughing, he's getting confused, he's vomiting left and right. 0:10:52.480 --> 0:10:55.280 He would get worse and then he would get better. 0:10:55.720 --> 0:10:58.440 So he kind of ebbed and flowed, you know. And 0:10:58.840 --> 0:11:02.320 his doctors we're trying to figure out what was going 0:11:02.360 --> 0:11:06.320 on with him. They had no idea. We have one 0:11:06.400 --> 0:11:11.040 quote where his attendants have the sad apprehension of danger. 0:11:11.480 --> 0:11:15.520 Fairly vague it really is. Is that it the foreboding quality. 0:11:16.000 --> 0:11:18.600 Yeah, they had the shining about it. They said that 0:11:18.640 --> 0:11:21.560 he might not get better at this point. This starts 0:11:21.559 --> 0:11:24.880 happening when he is when he is almost sixty. He's 0:11:24.920 --> 0:11:28.400 fifty nine years old, and he dies suddenly on September third. 0:11:33.280 --> 0:11:36.480 So he's died, right, Cromwell has died, and his son 0:11:36.640 --> 0:11:39.840 inherits the position of Lord Protector for a very very 0:11:39.880 --> 0:11:41.120 brief amount of time. 0:11:41.080 --> 0:11:42.000 Very brief. Yes. 0:11:42.440 --> 0:11:45.120 A year later, his son is overthrown by the army. 0:11:45.400 --> 0:11:48.240 The monarchy is restored, so chalk one up for the 0:11:48.320 --> 0:11:52.040 royalist and Charles the second becomes the new king. What 0:11:52.080 --> 0:11:54.560 does he do after he becomes king? Is it like 0:11:54.600 --> 0:11:56.560 a bygones, be bygone situation. 0:11:56.760 --> 0:11:58.959 No, I think that would have been a bummer, a 0:11:59.040 --> 0:12:00.640 real let down if that was the Now. We wanted 0:12:00.679 --> 0:12:03.200 some blood, man, We came here for blood, and boy, 0:12:03.280 --> 0:12:05.000 will there ever be some blood? 0:12:05.080 --> 0:12:05.120 No? 0:12:05.280 --> 0:12:10.800 He declared everyone involved with overthrowing and executing the previous 0:12:10.880 --> 0:12:13.440 king enemies of the state, whatever you want to call it, 0:12:13.480 --> 0:12:17.640 and called for their immediate rounding up and execution. 0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:21.840 Especially those fifty nine people who signed the death warrant. 0:12:21.920 --> 0:12:22.440 Yeah, because I. 0:12:22.400 --> 0:12:24.440 Mean, you know, their names are on a piece of paper, 0:12:25.000 --> 0:12:28.199 their identities are out there, so it wasn't too too 0:12:28.240 --> 0:12:29.959 hard to get round in them up. 0:12:30.200 --> 0:12:32.960 This makes me think of so off air. Before we 0:12:33.080 --> 0:12:37.600 started this episode, we were talking about a strange moment 0:12:37.800 --> 0:12:42.439 in a lot of people's financial history checks. We used 0:12:42.440 --> 0:12:44.000 to do that too, We would put our names on 0:12:44.080 --> 0:12:47.920 pieces of paper. It's still so bizarre to think about it. Like, 0:12:48.000 --> 0:12:51.360 you don't even have checks. I have emergency checks, yep, 0:12:52.000 --> 0:12:55.800 hidden away in my layer in casey, you have some 0:12:55.960 --> 0:12:58.440 checks on the off chance you might ever need one, Right. 0:12:58.679 --> 0:13:03.160 That is correct? Yes, Casey on the case right there? Yeah, 0:13:04.040 --> 0:13:05.360 Casey on the checks yep. 0:13:05.840 --> 0:13:07.760 I would you know what I would get some vanity 0:13:08.400 --> 0:13:10.280 you know, vanity check I did. 0:13:10.400 --> 0:13:11.400 I had Superman ones. 0:13:11.480 --> 0:13:13.719 Yeah, I had. I had a couple of different I 0:13:13.720 --> 0:13:16.360 had Space ones. I believe it was very into space 0:13:17.160 --> 0:13:21.160 And speaking of fantastic segues back to the point. Yes, 0:13:21.400 --> 0:13:26.280 King Charles the Second once once, especially to find and 0:13:26.400 --> 0:13:29.640 punish these fifty nine people who have signed the death 0:13:29.679 --> 0:13:33.680 warrant for Charles the First. He catches many, several are hanged, 0:13:34.040 --> 0:13:36.520 some are put in jail for life. 0:13:37.000 --> 0:13:39.920 Let's backtrack just slightly. He did just call for their trial. 0:13:40.120 --> 0:13:42.200 But I would imagine this is something along the lines 0:13:42.200 --> 0:13:44.480 of a kangaroo court situation where I wasn't like they 0:13:44.480 --> 0:13:46.920 were gonna, you know, walk away Scott free. 0:13:47.080 --> 0:13:47.800 Right right. 0:13:47.880 --> 0:13:51.520 And the thing is that, as as we mentioned, not 0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:54.320 all fifty nine people on that list were still alive 0:13:54.400 --> 0:13:58.520 when Charles two came into power. So he had this 0:13:58.600 --> 0:14:03.240 weird pickle, you know, do we prosecute the dead? Do 0:14:03.320 --> 0:14:05.160 we let bygones be bygones? 0:14:05.760 --> 0:14:05.960 No? 0:14:06.160 --> 0:14:11.120 He says, no, we do not, and so he orders 0:14:11.800 --> 0:14:14.360 the bodies of several of the people have signed these 0:14:14.360 --> 0:14:16.920 death warrants to be exhumed. 0:14:17.440 --> 0:14:21.120 So on the twelfth anniversary of the death of King 0:14:21.240 --> 0:14:26.200 Charles the first, Our buddy Oliver Cromwell, Master Protector, whatever 0:14:26.240 --> 0:14:28.640 you call it, Master and commander Lord Protector. Now whatever 0:14:30.080 --> 0:14:34.640 was dug up exhumed for the purposes of, you know, 0:14:34.960 --> 0:14:37.960 making a show out of kind of re executing him. 0:14:38.240 --> 0:14:39.560 It reminds me of that there. 0:14:39.440 --> 0:14:41.280 Was a pope story we did where they dug up 0:14:41.280 --> 0:14:44.000 a pope and propped him up with his bones and 0:14:44.080 --> 0:14:44.800 the papal. 0:14:44.560 --> 0:14:49.760 Robes exactly exactly the cadavers synod right after the death 0:14:49.840 --> 0:14:52.400 of John the Eighth formosis. 0:14:52.520 --> 0:14:53.080 That's right. 0:14:53.400 --> 0:14:56.960 So yeah, So Charles the Second has a lot of 0:14:56.960 --> 0:15:00.200 these people dug up and their bodies are exhumed, and 0:15:00.280 --> 0:15:06.560 for the less egregious offenders, they're just buried in communal 0:15:06.600 --> 0:15:10.360 burial pits, so they lose the honor of being buried 0:15:10.400 --> 0:15:15.000 on their lonesome right. But Oliver Cromwell, along with three 0:15:15.040 --> 0:15:20.160 other people get awarded death sentences, despite the fact that 0:15:20.240 --> 0:15:25.400 Oliver Cromwell, John Bradshaw, Henry Ireton and Robert Blake are 0:15:25.600 --> 0:15:28.880 all dead. They're dead men given death sentences. So as 0:15:28.880 --> 0:15:32.480 you said, Noel, they chain the guy up, they hang 0:15:32.560 --> 0:15:36.360 him in chains at Tyburn, and in the afternoon they 0:15:36.440 --> 0:15:38.800 hang him there for like a day, and then as 0:15:38.840 --> 0:15:43.520 the afternoon winds on, they take him down. They cut 0:15:43.560 --> 0:15:45.760 off his head and they put it on a spike. 0:15:46.120 --> 0:15:48.520 Have a good head on a spike. It's just it's 0:15:48.520 --> 0:15:49.760 such a statement piece, you know. 0:15:50.000 --> 0:15:52.640 Yeah, it's real, it's real power move, Yeah, very much so, 0:15:52.640 --> 0:15:56.240 so they put this head on a twenty foot tall 0:15:56.320 --> 0:15:57.040 wooden spike. 0:15:57.200 --> 0:15:59.280 Question, there are a difference between a spike and a pike? 0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:02.640 A good question. A spike and a pike. Let's do 0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:07.280 a little quick Internet search here. Pike is to attack, 0:16:07.360 --> 0:16:10.280 prod or injure someone with a pike. Well, spike is 0:16:10.280 --> 0:16:12.680 to fix on a spike. Oh, because pike and spike 0:16:12.680 --> 0:16:13.880 are both verbs as well. 0:16:14.360 --> 0:16:17.240 So I'm thinking a pike would be part of some 0:16:17.280 --> 0:16:19.080 sort of turret, like a fence or something like that, 0:16:19.120 --> 0:16:21.480 and a spike is just more like a like a hole, 0:16:21.560 --> 0:16:22.520 like a stick in the ground. 0:16:22.800 --> 0:16:23.280 I don't know. 0:16:23.440 --> 0:16:26.240 Yeah, a pike can also be a pole, like a 0:16:26.320 --> 0:16:30.760 long pole that you use in infantry. Right, and then 0:16:30.800 --> 0:16:35.160 the air turnpikes and turnpike comes from my carnoledge is 0:16:35.160 --> 0:16:38.560 coming out here. Turnpike comes from the days of private 0:16:38.720 --> 0:16:42.320 roads when a log would be physically placed across the 0:16:42.400 --> 0:16:45.440 road and you had to pay someone to turn the 0:16:45.640 --> 0:16:47.480 pike or the long pole. 0:16:47.720 --> 0:16:49.680 Interesting, And I think spike is maybe just a little 0:16:49.680 --> 0:16:52.120 more of a generic term. And also, as we're going 0:16:52.120 --> 0:16:54.040 down this Google rabbit hole, which may or may not 0:16:54.080 --> 0:16:57.800 be interesting to you, a spike was also an Old 0:16:57.840 --> 0:16:59.480 English term for an ear of corn. 0:16:59.680 --> 0:17:04.440 Oh, and corned beef is just salted beef because they 0:17:04.680 --> 0:17:07.280 would describe the units of salt used as corns. 0:17:07.400 --> 0:17:09.720 I thought that was peppercorns corned beef. 0:17:10.560 --> 0:17:12.399 Pretty sure, salt. Of course, you can put pepper on 0:17:12.440 --> 0:17:13.080 it if you want. 0:17:13.640 --> 0:17:17.720 Well, Ben, through the magic of editing and time travel podcasting, 0:17:18.080 --> 0:17:19.639 you have once again proven me wrong. 0:17:19.960 --> 0:17:21.359 I'm not out training it. 0:17:22.640 --> 0:17:24.680 You're not out too. You just do it continuously because 0:17:24.680 --> 0:17:25.280 you're better than me. 0:17:25.480 --> 0:17:26.880 No, no, no, no one's been. 0:17:26.880 --> 0:17:27.400 We are both. 0:17:27.600 --> 0:17:30.640 We're both on the quest for the truth. It's true, 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:35.959 and no one is perfect. But you know, one huge 0:17:36.040 --> 0:17:39.600 statement in favor of our character or collective character, is 0:17:39.640 --> 0:17:42.760 that we've never dug someone up, knocked off their head 0:17:43.119 --> 0:17:46.000 and hung it on a spike or pike. 0:17:46.400 --> 0:17:47.680 How long did they leave it up there? 0:17:47.760 --> 0:17:51.080 No way longer than seemed humane than any of this, 0:17:51.200 --> 0:17:53.760 And just particularly humane in the first place, but this 0:17:53.800 --> 0:17:58.200 one stuck around as a tourist trap for like decades. 0:17:58.480 --> 0:18:01.199 Yeah yeah, and people would passed the head around. This 0:18:01.240 --> 0:18:04.359 thing was around for twenty five years on that on 0:18:04.480 --> 0:18:07.160 that spike. Eventually it's taken down and for the next 0:18:07.160 --> 0:18:11.399 two hundred years, many different people take possession of this head. 0:18:11.520 --> 0:18:14.280 When I first read got passed around, I pictured people 0:18:14.320 --> 0:18:16.639 passing around in a circle, like a hot potato. 0:18:16.280 --> 0:18:17.040 Game or something like that. 0:18:17.400 --> 0:18:19.720 It was much It was a much larger scale version 0:18:19.720 --> 0:18:21.840 of hot potato like that, where it kind of changed 0:18:21.880 --> 0:18:25.639 hands a lot. I believe for a time it was 0:18:25.680 --> 0:18:29.040 in the possession of a failed actor who was also 0:18:29.280 --> 0:18:32.720 a kind of the town drunk and was rumored to 0:18:32.800 --> 0:18:35.880 have been a relative of Cromwell himself. This man's name 0:18:35.920 --> 0:18:39.840 was Samuel Russell. This comes from a Fantastic av Club 0:18:39.960 --> 0:18:43.239 article about the subject that you can look up, and 0:18:43.400 --> 0:18:47.360 Russell was not a particularly good steward of this artifact. 0:18:47.480 --> 0:18:48.800 Let's call it yeah, right. 0:18:48.920 --> 0:18:50.879 You can see some of the blow by blowers we 0:18:50.920 --> 0:18:54.840 say passed by pass of this in article on Atlas 0:18:54.840 --> 0:18:59.680 Obscura The Morbid Journey of Cromwell's Traveling Heads. As you 0:18:59.760 --> 0:19:02.720 were say saying, Noel, the guy who possessed the head, 0:19:03.000 --> 0:19:07.000 Samuel Russell not the best guy. He was poor, he 0:19:07.119 --> 0:19:11.680 was considerably in debt. He had a serious drinking problem. 0:19:12.119 --> 0:19:17.479 He would literally pass the head around at parties. Sam 0:19:17.560 --> 0:19:22.119 bring out the head. Yeah, and he refused to part 0:19:22.440 --> 0:19:24.920 with the head. People would offer him money for it, 0:19:25.600 --> 0:19:28.399 but instead of that, he would just borrow money from people, 0:19:29.359 --> 0:19:33.120 and multiple folks for one reason or another said we've 0:19:33.160 --> 0:19:35.160 got to get this head away from this drunk guy, 0:19:35.840 --> 0:19:42.880 so they continued offering him money. Eventually, a prominent goldsmith 0:19:43.000 --> 0:19:45.920 and clockmaker named James Cox enters this story. 0:19:45.960 --> 0:19:47.440 Yeah, he was a smart fellow because he was playing 0:19:47.440 --> 0:19:49.159 the long game, because he kept trying to buy the 0:19:49.200 --> 0:19:53.680 head off of him, off of Russell, knowing that even 0:19:53.720 --> 0:19:58.879 though he was turned down in exchanged for loans, he 0:19:58.960 --> 0:20:00.879 was eventually going to come to the point where Russell 0:20:00.880 --> 0:20:02.720 could not pay him back the loans, and then he 0:20:02.720 --> 0:20:05.160 would have the upper hand to say, hey, I'll absolve 0:20:05.160 --> 0:20:08.920 your debt, you pour unfortunate bastard if you just give 0:20:08.960 --> 0:20:10.639 me the head. And that's exactly what happened. 0:20:10.760 --> 0:20:11.760 Yeah, give me the head. 0:20:11.720 --> 0:20:14.280 He's he was able to flip it for like three 0:20:14.320 --> 0:20:16.280 times what he'd invest it was it twice? I think 0:20:16.320 --> 0:20:17.480 it was quite a nice profit. 0:20:18.000 --> 0:20:21.520 Yeah, yeah, he sold Cox that has sold the head 0:20:21.560 --> 0:20:24.840 in seventeen ninety nine for two hundred and thirty British 0:20:24.920 --> 0:20:28.760 pounds to three brothers with the last name of Hughes. 0:20:29.640 --> 0:20:32.840 They wanted to start their own public display, so they 0:20:32.880 --> 0:20:36.119 got the head as part of other Cromwell related items. 0:20:36.680 --> 0:20:38.879 They made a bunch of posters for the event. But 0:20:39.040 --> 0:20:42.280 then they found themselves in a bit of a pickle 0:20:42.680 --> 0:20:46.560 because they wondered whether the head was actually the head 0:20:46.800 --> 0:20:50.040 of Cromwell. And when they wrote to Cox to ask 0:20:50.160 --> 0:20:52.080 for I guess the chain of custody, you know what 0:20:52.160 --> 0:20:55.840 I mean, Cox was kind of evasive, and so they thought, 0:20:56.280 --> 0:20:59.240 is this guy selling us a counterfeit head? I mean 0:20:59.240 --> 0:21:01.440 we've all been there, right, Casey. Casey was just telling 0:21:01.480 --> 0:21:03.520 me about something like this there other day. 0:21:03.640 --> 0:21:06.520 Yeah, I'm I'm not at liberty to discuss that matter. 0:21:06.560 --> 0:21:08.000 It's an ongoing. 0:21:08.359 --> 0:21:13.240 Situation, investigation, you know yourself. 0:21:13.359 --> 0:21:16.760 Yeah, you've been You've been advised by your legal tya okay, 0:21:16.800 --> 0:21:18.720 And this has not been Casey on the case. So 0:21:18.760 --> 0:21:21.879 this this is, yeah, this is if there's the case's pending. 0:21:22.000 --> 0:21:22.440 That's fair. 0:21:23.000 --> 0:21:25.639 That's that's a different sound Casey is a man of 0:21:25.680 --> 0:21:26.560 many side hustles. 0:21:26.600 --> 0:21:28.320 Let's put it that way. That's true. That's true. 0:21:28.359 --> 0:21:34.920 I mean, we live in the gig economy. So what 0:21:35.080 --> 0:21:37.200 happens to Cromwell's head. 0:21:37.560 --> 0:21:41.359 Well, here's the thing. There's a lot of conflicting tales 0:21:41.400 --> 0:21:42.159 as to what happened. 0:21:42.160 --> 0:21:45.600 There's some versions of the story that say the head 0:21:45.640 --> 0:21:51.680 itself was given a proper burial by loyalists to Cromwell, 0:21:51.760 --> 0:21:54.960 or at least those that sympathize with his cause. Uh, 0:21:55.040 --> 0:21:57.919 there's another version that says the head kind of disappeared. 0:21:58.359 --> 0:22:02.119 Right, It's commonly accepted that the head was given a 0:22:02.160 --> 0:22:06.480 dignified burial and a secret place, secret location Sidney Sussex 0:22:06.520 --> 0:22:12.600 College in Cambridge in nineteen sixty. But the story is 0:22:12.640 --> 0:22:17.080 too good to let the facts distract from the possibilities, right, 0:22:17.440 --> 0:22:20.240 Because as you said, there are people who argue multiple 0:22:20.240 --> 0:22:23.520 other things about it. One of the craziest, the craziest 0:22:23.560 --> 0:22:26.159 stories I heard was that it was secretly taken by 0:22:26.160 --> 0:22:27.440 a fraternal society. 0:22:27.720 --> 0:22:29.280 I have a question, too, Ben, in this time where 0:22:29.320 --> 0:22:32.000 there wasn't any obviously any DNA or any lab science 0:22:32.040 --> 0:22:37.840 at all. How could you confirm the veracity of a rotted, 0:22:38.400 --> 0:22:42.240 shrunken head leathered up like beef jerky when you know. 0:22:42.359 --> 0:22:44.440 You know, you know, you just feel it in your heart. 0:22:44.480 --> 0:22:46.159 Yeah, you just feel it in your heart. Okay have 0:22:46.200 --> 0:22:47.440 you ever been in that situation? 0:22:47.560 --> 0:22:47.720