1 00:00:05,680 --> 00:00:09,920 Speaker 1: This is Straight Fire with Jason McIntyre. 2 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:14,920 Speaker 2: What is up? Straight firefam, It's me Jason McIntyre, Straight 3 00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:21,320 Speaker 2: Fire for Wednesday, September twenty fifth. Got a great interview 4 00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:24,400 Speaker 2: today on the pod with Mike Silver. I'm sure you 5 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 2: guys are familiar with him. He's covered the NFL for decades. 6 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:31,240 Speaker 2: He's actually buddies with Steve Kerr, being a Bay Area guy, 7 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:35,920 Speaker 2: and he's got a new book out about Shanahan McVeigh, McDaniel, 8 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:39,400 Speaker 2: that coaching tree. It sounds super interesting and I think 9 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:41,559 Speaker 2: you guys are gonna like the direction of the questions. 10 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:43,960 Speaker 2: You could tell my gambling hat was on as I 11 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:52,360 Speaker 2: grill mister Silver about tendencies and how defenses can stop 12 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:56,000 Speaker 2: the Shanahan Tree. Notably, Brian Flores basically shut down the 13 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 2: Shanahan offense two weeks ago and then followed it up 14 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:02,240 Speaker 2: by shutting down Slowix offense and Bobby Slowk of Houston, 15 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:05,160 Speaker 2: the offensive coordinator. He is from the Shanahan Tree. Anyways, 16 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:07,120 Speaker 2: you guys are really gonna like the interview. The only 17 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:10,240 Speaker 2: thing I'll say before the interview is if you guys 18 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:14,240 Speaker 2: recall last week I talked about the Dan Campbell situation. 19 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:16,200 Speaker 2: Where he came out and said we're moving because people 20 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 2: know where our house is. When you lose a football game, 21 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:23,119 Speaker 2: people freak out. So everybody assumed that it was because 22 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:27,240 Speaker 2: of the Tampa Bay loss. Well it gets worse. According 23 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:32,840 Speaker 2: to the Detroit News, the real reason is because this 24 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 2: has been an ongoing saga since they lost the NFC 25 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 2: Championship game to the forty nine ers. Remember they blew 26 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 2: a big lead and Lions Vanders distraught. They've never been 27 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:46,679 Speaker 2: to the Super Bowl, and like everybody was crushed. But 28 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 2: some Yahoo went on Snapchat dropped the family's address, and 29 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:59,280 Speaker 2: all hell broke loose. Here's the worst part. The idiot 30 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:03,800 Speaker 2: dropped the address just so happens to be a classmate 31 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:08,840 Speaker 2: of Campbell's daughter. She goes to some private school. The 32 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:12,240 Speaker 2: kid is a year younger. And I guess he said, 33 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 2: we were just distraught. I didn't do it seriously, It 34 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:17,080 Speaker 2: was only up for a few minutes and then I 35 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 2: took it down. Well, of course, you know, the unhinged 36 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 2: Lions fans showed up at the house. Now, Dan Campbell, 37 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:29,520 Speaker 2: remember was it the NFC Championship game? Okay, and like 38 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:33,079 Speaker 2: he's not home, he's got a family, what the hell 39 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:35,079 Speaker 2: is wrong with people? This story in the Detroit News. 40 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:38,160 Speaker 2: I highly suggest looking it up. Dan Campbell moved after 41 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 2: snapchat harassment unwanted visitors, Like people are just losers. Okay, 42 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:47,799 Speaker 2: it started apparently on the first one was a New 43 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 2: Year's Eve where a lot of people were going up 44 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:54,640 Speaker 2: to the house. And it was weird because according to 45 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:57,639 Speaker 2: the newspaper, all the people showing up had been service 46 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 2: related locksmith, roofing. So Dan Campbell's like, I didn't call locksmith, 47 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 2: I didn't call it roofer. Some loser said, hey, let's 48 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 2: call a locksmith to go to Dan Campbell's house. Let's 49 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 2: call a roofing guy a New Year's Eve? Who meets 50 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:15,280 Speaker 2: that crap? And then at the NFC Championship game, it 51 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:18,640 Speaker 2: got really bad because I guess his daughter was home 52 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:22,760 Speaker 2: with the boyfriend. Remember the NFC Championship game was in 53 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 2: San Francisco, so Dan Campbell's obviously not home. Police had 54 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 2: to come and stay at the house. Folks, this is 55 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 2: this is creepy. And here's the worst part. The parents. 56 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 2: Uh well, the mom of this one idiot kid who 57 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:39,800 Speaker 2: posted it on Snapchat was like, oh, he took it 58 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 2: down quickly. He saw the error in his ways, Like 59 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:44,920 Speaker 2: do you not get it? They called to apologize the stuff, 60 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 2: and you know, it just sounds like a messy story. Guys, Listen, 61 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:53,600 Speaker 2: we got a sizeable audience on this podcast. Okay, I 62 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 2: would hope you guys don't pull that kind of garbage 63 00:03:56,520 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 2: and like doxing people, and it's just not cool. It's 64 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:04,119 Speaker 2: not funny. It's not funny at all. It's just disappointing 65 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 2: that people would act like that. Dan Camball's done more 66 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:08,480 Speaker 2: for the Detroit Lions are we than any coach in 67 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:11,920 Speaker 2: the last fifty years. He's turned the franchise around. He's 68 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 2: done a phenomenal job. I don't know what's going to 69 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 2: happen this year. I thought they were Super Bowl material. 70 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 2: They don't look like it yet, but that could still 71 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:20,479 Speaker 2: come true. But to really do that, like, listen, I 72 00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 2: was a kid once. Yeah, we toilet paper people's houses, 73 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 2: we egged people's houses, you know whatever that was like, 74 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 2: we were doing it to people we knew. We weren't 75 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:36,120 Speaker 2: posting the address of a football coach and telling anybody 76 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 2: on social media go after him. This is like four 77 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:42,840 Speaker 2: guys tepeeing their buddy's house or their old friend's house, 78 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:46,920 Speaker 2: you know, or checking a couple eggs like everybody's had 79 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:49,600 Speaker 2: like their on Not everybody, but and I'm sure you 80 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 2: guys had bashed mailboxes. We had our mailbox bashed, you know, 81 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:54,560 Speaker 2: put somebody puts a firework in a mailbox, Like that's 82 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 2: like dumb kid stuff. But with the social media, you 83 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:00,880 Speaker 2: don't know who's following your account, know who's seeing you, 84 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 2: know what creeps are out there, I don't know, just 85 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 2: really disappointing stuff to publicly docs a football coach because 86 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:11,920 Speaker 2: you lose a game. I don't know. It just strikes 87 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 2: me as sad. Anyways, without further ado, let's get to 88 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:18,599 Speaker 2: our guest, Mike Silver, longtime NFL journalist and published author. 89 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:22,400 Speaker 1: Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in 90 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:25,760 Speaker 1: the nation. Catch all of our shows at foxsports Radio 91 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:30,000 Speaker 1: dot com and within the iHeartRadio app. Search FSR to 92 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:35,720 Speaker 1: listen live. You know a guy, Jason likes to think 93 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:38,839 Speaker 1: he knows everything when it comes to sports. I know 94 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 1: what sports fans want, but for everything he doesn't he 95 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:43,440 Speaker 1: knows the guy who does. 96 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:46,600 Speaker 3: Let's just say I know a guy who knows a 97 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:48,640 Speaker 3: guy who knows another guy. 98 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:52,320 Speaker 2: All right, let's Welcome into Straight Fire, a longtime NFL 99 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 2: writer who recently penned a book, The Why Is Everything. 100 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:01,280 Speaker 2: It's out on October first. He talked to Kyle Shanahan, 101 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:04,640 Speaker 2: Sean McVeigh, Mike McDaniel. I got a lot of questions 102 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 2: about McDaniel, Matt Lafleur, who's maybe been the coach of 103 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:10,760 Speaker 2: the year through three weeks, and Raheem Morris. Let's welcome in, 104 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:12,800 Speaker 2: Mike Silver, Mike, how are you man? 105 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:13,679 Speaker 3: Awesome? 106 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 4: Jason, thanks for having me and I love the California tan. 107 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:20,719 Speaker 3: You've got going the Perma tan. 108 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:24,680 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, from the Coribbean. So let's let's get 109 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:27,520 Speaker 2: started with just week three and we'll dovetail into the book. 110 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:30,919 Speaker 2: But two of the coaches you interviewed, Kyle Shanahan and McVeigh, 111 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:34,080 Speaker 2: met at SOFI. The forty nine Ers were big favorites, 112 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:36,919 Speaker 2: had a big lead, blew it and ended up losing 113 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 2: the game. McVeigh is so geeked about it. And now 114 00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:41,280 Speaker 2: the forty nine ers are one and two, and I 115 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:43,320 Speaker 2: don't know, there was so much about this game that 116 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:46,920 Speaker 2: kind of came out to, Oh my goodness, is this 117 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 2: run over for the Niners? How does McVeigh keep coaxing 118 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:54,480 Speaker 2: up this amazing stuff without Pooka, without Cooper Cup, offensive 119 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:57,279 Speaker 2: line depleted. Take me to that game and your thoughts 120 00:06:57,279 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 2: on it. 121 00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:02,599 Speaker 4: Yeah, and really Perty had game without Debo and Kittle 122 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:07,279 Speaker 4: and McCaffrey, Jwan Jennings went absolutely nuts. But yeah, you 123 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:09,960 Speaker 4: know so, Kyle Shanahan and Shah McVay are two of 124 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 4: the main characters. 125 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 3: And the why is everything. 126 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:16,239 Speaker 4: My book, which comes out October first, free order, lakes 127 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:19,720 Speaker 4: all over by social media, and you know, I'm really 128 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 4: excited about it, and it's about that whole crew and 129 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 4: how they've changed the game. But you're right, each of 130 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 4: these guys is so secure in his ability to scheme 131 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 4: it up and manipulate defenses and then react to the 132 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 4: reactions that they feel like they can operate even under duress. 133 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 4: And it really helps when you have a quarterback. And 134 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:49,160 Speaker 4: yet this game was you know, it might have been 135 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 4: the worst regular season loss of the Shanahan era, certainly 136 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:57,720 Speaker 4: since they started being good in twenty nineteen. They had 137 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 4: a fourteen nothing lead, were just sucking the air out 138 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 4: of the place, and they gave up a fake punt 139 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 4: in an obvious fake punt situation. Then had a chance 140 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 4: to go up two scores missed the field goal. Okay, 141 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:15,120 Speaker 4: give up a deep ball immediately. Now it's tied. Perty 142 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:20,840 Speaker 4: throws a great pass to Ronnie Bell, their number five receiver, 143 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:22,960 Speaker 4: who I think is about to be their number five 144 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:26,720 Speaker 4: hundred receiver. He doesn't catch it, which would have set 145 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:30,800 Speaker 4: up a winning field goal. Then you punt. I mean, 146 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 4: in a time when people are kicking the ball out 147 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 4: of the end zone to give it to teams at 148 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:39,720 Speaker 4: the thirty because they don't want to give up a return. 149 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:42,920 Speaker 4: In that situation, they definitely could have given them the 150 00:08:42,920 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 4: ball at the twenty. They kicked to the guy, a 151 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 4: guy probably the first time he's ever touched the ball 152 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 4: in an NFL game meetingfully ends up busting a big return, 153 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:55,840 Speaker 4: and then as the coupdi gras, Matthew Stafford drops back 154 00:08:56,200 --> 00:08:56,960 Speaker 4: throws deep. 155 00:08:57,200 --> 00:08:58,720 Speaker 3: Now this is hard to do, Jason. 156 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 4: They were called for three defensive penalties on one play, 157 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 4: including the pivotal pi. 158 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:09,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was one of those games where you just mystified. 159 00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 2: But listen, man, I'm a Shanahan guy. But Mike, he's 160 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:14,800 Speaker 2: blown a lot of leads. I mean held the Super 161 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 2: Bowl was the biggest one the first time around against 162 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:21,599 Speaker 2: Kansas City. I like Shannan a lot. It seemed like 163 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:24,160 Speaker 2: after the game he was a little upset and perturbed 164 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:26,360 Speaker 2: his team has really banged up. I'm curious what was 165 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:28,840 Speaker 2: it like talking to him for the book, because he's 166 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:31,439 Speaker 2: at this really pivotal point in his career where it's like, 167 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:33,559 Speaker 2: we know he's awesome, but he can't get in a 168 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:34,120 Speaker 2: big game. 169 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's a central theme throughout the book, of course, 170 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:41,000 Speaker 4: that he's the guy that these other people really look 171 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:44,440 Speaker 4: to as still the guy they're trying to get approval from. 172 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:46,760 Speaker 4: You know, if you go back to that Mike Shannahead 173 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:51,199 Speaker 4: coached Washington staff in the early twenty tends, Kyle was 174 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:53,720 Speaker 4: the offensive coordinator. So you have all these other coaches 175 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 4: running in with ideas and concepts and hoping Kyle would 176 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:01,319 Speaker 4: think it's a good idea. There's still a little of 177 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 4: that dynamic. It's complicated with me and Kyle. I've known 178 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:10,760 Speaker 4: him since he's thirteen, probably you know, and certainly you know, 179 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:15,760 Speaker 4: have championed his strategic acumen since the early days when 180 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:19,120 Speaker 4: he was Houston's offensive coordinator in the Matt shab era 181 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:23,880 Speaker 4: and going forward, you know, his father, Mike is a 182 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 4: huge part of this book and participated a lot, including 183 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:32,120 Speaker 4: amazingly because I was spending so much time with Mike 184 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:37,840 Speaker 4: Shanahan in the spring of twenty twenty two. While asking 185 00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 4: him about Trey Lance at Jimmy Garoppolo, he kept bringing 186 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 4: up brock Purty, the two hundred and sixty second pick 187 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:48,760 Speaker 4: of the draft, but he'd seen some Ota tape already, 188 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:52,040 Speaker 4: and Mike Shanahan was sake. Was talking about brock Perty 189 00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:57,119 Speaker 4: in a way that to me felt almost awkwardly a bulliant. 190 00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 4: There's a chapter title in the book that says you 191 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 4: don't that's titled you Don't Let him Out, and that 192 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:07,400 Speaker 4: refers to the day before the twenty twenty two opener 193 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:10,280 Speaker 4: in Chicago. Trey Lance is now the starter. They're getting 194 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:13,960 Speaker 4: ready to play the Bears in the Rain, that rain game, right, Yeah. 195 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:14,719 Speaker 2: Yeah. 196 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:17,600 Speaker 4: So I go to Mike Shannahead's hotel room in Chicago 197 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:20,600 Speaker 4: and we're talking about all of it and Trey Lance, 198 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 4: and he brings up Rock Party again and he says, 199 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:25,920 Speaker 4: when you have a guy like that in your building, 200 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:29,120 Speaker 4: you don't let him out. And I'm thinking this has 201 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:33,320 Speaker 4: brock Purty, right, But if anyone wondered whether Mike Shanahan 202 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:36,200 Speaker 4: still got it. He was right on that one, and 203 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:40,120 Speaker 4: obviously Kyle must have liked him. But I can't imagine 204 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:42,160 Speaker 4: Kyle thought of him in those terms, or he would 205 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:45,120 Speaker 4: have drafted him a lot higher than two sixty two. 206 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:49,880 Speaker 4: So yeah, Kyle was less enthusiastic. He didn't want to 207 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:54,320 Speaker 4: participate directly in this project. Now, as a columnist for 208 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:56,920 Speaker 4: the Chronicle, I was always down there and he you know, 209 00:11:57,400 --> 00:11:59,960 Speaker 4: I got plenty of access to him, and it wore 210 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 4: out just fine. But I think Kyle is, you know, 211 00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:09,480 Speaker 4: very much his father's son, very proprietary about what he 212 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:16,400 Speaker 4: believes is his secret sauce, and less worried about convincing 213 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:18,880 Speaker 4: the rest of the public how awesome it is if 214 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:21,120 Speaker 4: he can get a little bit of an edge on Sunday. 215 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:24,160 Speaker 2: Well, it's weird because Shanahan may have a secret sauce, right, 216 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:26,640 Speaker 2: we think McVeigh may or may not. We saw it 217 00:12:26,679 --> 00:12:28,920 Speaker 2: with once he got Stafford, they made the jump to 218 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 2: light speed. But I wonder about McDaniel, who was the 219 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:36,280 Speaker 2: bell of the ball, a super genius with Tua, and 220 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:38,640 Speaker 2: then for some reason at the end of the last season, 221 00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 2: Mike it looked like teams started to figure out the 222 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:43,560 Speaker 2: Dolphins a little bit, they slowed down, and then to 223 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:45,520 Speaker 2: start this season it has not been good. Now too 224 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:47,840 Speaker 2: is out and I don't know that the jury's out 225 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:50,920 Speaker 2: on McDaniel, but I am curious, how do you how 226 00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:53,240 Speaker 2: does McDaniel fit in with Shanahan McVeigh. 227 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:56,960 Speaker 4: He is a central character in this book, and it's 228 00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:59,839 Speaker 4: an incredible story when you look at his entire back 229 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 4: story and how improbable it is that he's in this position. 230 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:04,520 Speaker 3: And yet he's a guy. 231 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:09,480 Speaker 4: You know, I felt kind of, you know, bittersweet about 232 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 4: sharing them with the world because that dry sets of 233 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:15,320 Speaker 4: humor and the quirkiness and all that. You know, I've 234 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:20,840 Speaker 4: been enjoying that for years with little fanfare. But he's 235 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:24,640 Speaker 4: also a guy who has this incredible faith in his abilities. 236 00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 4: Felt that he was held down partly by Kyle Shanahan, who, 237 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 4: as you'll see in the book, tried very very hard 238 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:36,080 Speaker 4: not to lose him while kind of, you know, being 239 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 4: the dominant personality in Mike's life. And yet when it 240 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:47,240 Speaker 4: comes to scheme and an ecosystem and manipulating defensive rules 241 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:49,880 Speaker 4: and all that, most of these coaches, if he gave 242 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 4: him truth. Serum would say Kyle's at a different level. 243 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 4: I think McVeigh would tell you, look, there's leadership, there's 244 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:00,920 Speaker 4: galvanizing a team. I think I'm early better at that 245 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:04,840 Speaker 4: than Kyle. He might be a little advanced on scheme. 246 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 4: So it's you know, either or. But McDaniel's the one 247 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:12,280 Speaker 4: guy where there's a quote from Chris Cooley, the former 248 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:16,679 Speaker 4: Redskin tight end, talking about McDaniel and he says he's 249 00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:20,760 Speaker 4: Matt Damon, how do you like dem apples smart? 250 00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:24,080 Speaker 3: In a nice goodwill hunting reference. 251 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:28,440 Speaker 4: But McDaniel is probably the only one where you go, 252 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:31,680 Speaker 4: is he on an intellectual level here? That is just 253 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:34,560 Speaker 4: so far beyond Now, that's not the only part of 254 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:38,120 Speaker 4: that coaching you obviously bring up. They didn't finish well 255 00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:40,000 Speaker 4: in either of his first two seasons. For all the 256 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:44,680 Speaker 4: great stuff he did and resurrecting to and and a 257 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 4: lot of it, I think he will find a way 258 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:51,080 Speaker 4: to stand out over the long haul. But you know, 259 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 4: this is the league and and really if you trace 260 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 4: starting with that Washington you know stage where they they 261 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:03,560 Speaker 4: that revolutionary approach to RG three and took the league 262 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 4: by storm. This is not like a book where it's like, oh, 263 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 4: they made it. It's all great. Like they were coaching 264 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:12,800 Speaker 4: for their jobs in Cleveland the next year after getting 265 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:17,840 Speaker 4: unceremoniously booted out of Washington. Year one in Atlanta was 266 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:22,200 Speaker 4: really rough and they had to have a something that 267 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:25,040 Speaker 4: came to be known as marriage counseling. But with Kyle 268 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 4: and Matt Ryan, Matt Lafleur, who was then the quarterbacks coach, 269 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 4: Dan Quinn had some intermediaries. After that season, obviously they 270 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:37,920 Speaker 4: got to the Super Bowl, had incredible twenty sixteen. Before that, 271 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:41,920 Speaker 4: you know, I know you've heard this, but I'm told 272 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:44,760 Speaker 4: the Patriots had a twenty eight to three lead or 273 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:48,360 Speaker 4: Flcans had a twenty eight three lead, and we all 274 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:50,520 Speaker 4: know how that happened. And then of course he goes 275 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:53,280 Speaker 4: to San Francisco. McVey go's to LA the same year. 276 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:57,080 Speaker 4: And now these guys who were linked together and were 277 00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:02,760 Speaker 4: friendly but not BFFs, are now rivals, you know, who 278 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 4: have to play each other twice a year and compete 279 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 4: for supremacy. So you know, rivalry is in the subhead 280 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:12,040 Speaker 4: of the title for a reason. There's a lot of 281 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:16,320 Speaker 4: pettiness that's gone on. And we capture, we capture it 282 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:17,840 Speaker 4: in vivid form. 283 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:21,400 Speaker 2: Let me ask more about the Mike McDaniel Matt Damon 284 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:26,480 Speaker 2: question or quote. So McDaniel went to Yale. He's listen, 285 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:29,160 Speaker 2: I'm not gonna knock it. He's looked up, appears a 286 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:31,640 Speaker 2: little nerdy, sounds it. I'm just curious. You've been in 287 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:33,720 Speaker 2: a lot of NFL locker rooms. I've been in some 288 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 2: how so much of a struggle is it for McDaniel 289 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:39,840 Speaker 2: to relate to some of these guys, because a lot 290 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:41,960 Speaker 2: of the times it's hey, wait, you never played, you know, 291 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 2: I'm sure you get that eight Mike. How many nfls 292 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:45,840 Speaker 2: notes you take? Yeah, you know, I get that stuff 293 00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:48,920 Speaker 2: plenty of times being on TV. Like, I'm just curious 294 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:52,000 Speaker 2: how McDaniel can relate to these guys so well, not 295 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:54,680 Speaker 2: having played in the NFL or even close to it. 296 00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:55,520 Speaker 3: It's a great question. 297 00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 4: Well, he is a complete underdog story, which many as 298 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:01,480 Speaker 4: you know, many NFL players believe they are from the 299 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:06,879 Speaker 4: circumstances they came from. And he is oddly one of 300 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:10,200 Speaker 4: the most upbeat, positive people when it comes to assessing players. 301 00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:13,120 Speaker 4: And this goes way back and so many coaches over 302 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:15,440 Speaker 4: the years. You talk to him when you know their 303 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:18,240 Speaker 4: guard's down and you're drinking beers and you're you know, 304 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:21,879 Speaker 4: and they'll start talking about this guy's killing me, he 305 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:26,720 Speaker 4: can't do this, this guy's frustrating me. Mike McDaniel invariably 306 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:30,800 Speaker 4: will talk about anyone and just go, yeah, I know 307 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:33,320 Speaker 4: he's dropped the ball a lot and it's been hard 308 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:35,720 Speaker 4: for him to lure the offense, but he does this 309 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:39,760 Speaker 4: one route that I'm telling you, dude, it's elite, and 310 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:45,160 Speaker 4: he like sincerely, gets so excited about what his players 311 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:45,560 Speaker 4: can do. 312 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:47,960 Speaker 3: So I think there's that it's. 313 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:49,480 Speaker 4: Funny in the book, though, you know, there's a quote 314 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:53,280 Speaker 4: from Trent Williams talking about the Washington Days where McDaniel's 315 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:56,359 Speaker 4: at an offensive live beating and Trent Williams in the 316 00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:59,240 Speaker 4: Lineman are looking at Mike McDaniel, who probably weighs one 317 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:01,560 Speaker 4: hundred and fifteen pound soak and wet at the time, 318 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:04,040 Speaker 4: and they're thinking like, are you supposed to be in 319 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:06,920 Speaker 4: this meeting? And then Joe Staley the four and forty 320 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 4: nine Offensive Alive and said that when McDaniel tried to 321 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:15,199 Speaker 4: lead meetings early on as Kyle's run game coordinator, that 322 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:18,320 Speaker 4: he said, first of all, it took forever, like they'd 323 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 4: go an hour long, because he was doing comedy. He 324 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:24,000 Speaker 4: was over explaining, he was going off on tangents, and 325 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:26,480 Speaker 4: I think he said he was like a he looked 326 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:30,119 Speaker 4: like a finance bro who'd won like a fantasy camp 327 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:32,600 Speaker 4: thing and was now, you know, playing the role of 328 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:36,239 Speaker 4: NFL coach. But what happens is when the scheme is 329 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:40,040 Speaker 4: so good, especially in the run game, which was his specialty, 330 00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:44,080 Speaker 4: he could scheme it up on such an advanced level 331 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:48,399 Speaker 4: that would lead to these crazy openings. So what he 332 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:50,840 Speaker 4: was preaching was coming true. So I think most of 333 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:55,080 Speaker 4: all that's what got him. And I'll just say this globally. Really, 334 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:59,480 Speaker 4: the thesis of this book is that you had this culture, 335 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:03,159 Speaker 4: meat head culture to some degree where it's do it 336 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:06,400 Speaker 4: because it works. You know, it's always been done this way. 337 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:08,919 Speaker 4: This is how Bill Wallace did it. Just do what 338 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:12,040 Speaker 4: we tell you. And there's been a sea change and 339 00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:14,800 Speaker 4: these this crew is at the forefront of it, and 340 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:19,160 Speaker 4: they question everything, are willing to innovate on the fly 341 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:23,440 Speaker 4: as circumstances dictate. They don't rule things out. They want 342 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 4: to know exactly why anything is big done, and they 343 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 4: want to be able to tell their players why, which 344 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 4: is kind of how we got. 345 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:31,439 Speaker 3: To the title. 346 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 2: So Lafleur is an interesting one, Mike, I gotta be honest, 347 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:37,080 Speaker 2: I was dubious. You know, young guy wins with Aaron 348 00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:39,119 Speaker 2: Rodgers book de damn. Do you know a lot of 349 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:41,879 Speaker 2: people can move with their prime Aaron Rodgers and what 350 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:46,880 Speaker 2: he's done this season with What's the Malik Willis? Yeah, 351 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:49,320 Speaker 2: ending last season with Jordan Love I'm sold. I think 352 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:51,760 Speaker 2: Lafleour is very good. How does he fit into this crew? 353 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:56,160 Speaker 4: You know, he was another of these young grinders kind 354 00:19:56,160 --> 00:20:02,160 Speaker 4: of vying for Kyle Shadahead's approval and it's and ended 355 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:04,800 Speaker 4: up going off with McVeigh in La spent a year 356 00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:08,160 Speaker 4: with Rabel in Tennessee. Talk about a personality clash. Yeah, 357 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:11,359 Speaker 4: love love both those guys. Can't imagine how they stayed 358 00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:14,520 Speaker 4: in the same building for as many months as they did, 359 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:18,480 Speaker 4: just very different philosophies. But yeah, I was a little 360 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:21,080 Speaker 4: worried about Matt when he got that packer job, because 361 00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:24,359 Speaker 4: he's he's kind of the most sweet and earnest and 362 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:28,119 Speaker 4: sincere of the bunch, to the point where there's a 363 00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:30,600 Speaker 4: story in there to bring up Chris Cooley again where 364 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:34,439 Speaker 4: the Redskins are on a flight back from somewhere, a 365 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:38,639 Speaker 4: flight to somewhere, and Chris Cooley decides to do a prink. 366 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:42,120 Speaker 4: So he passes out to every player pen and paper, 367 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:46,159 Speaker 4: and he's doing a poll who the least popular assistant 368 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:49,280 Speaker 4: coaches are, And of course it's a setup, there's no 369 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:52,800 Speaker 4: real poll. So Matt Lafleur, I think, to torture him. 370 00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:54,760 Speaker 4: He didn't even make him the least popular. He made 371 00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:59,000 Speaker 4: him the second least popular. But when Cooley announced the results, 372 00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:02,600 Speaker 4: you know, legend has that Lafleur's eyes were actually tearing 373 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:05,760 Speaker 4: up that he was so you know, he was so 374 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:09,040 Speaker 4: bummed out by it. So I was a little worried, 375 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:11,880 Speaker 4: you know, getting that big packer job and Aaron Rodgers. 376 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:14,640 Speaker 4: And shortly after he got the job, I went out 377 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:16,920 Speaker 4: there and the first thing Matt said to me was, Hey, 378 00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:19,080 Speaker 4: we got to figure out this audible thing which is 379 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:22,400 Speaker 4: in the Shanahan offense that he was running. You might 380 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:25,680 Speaker 4: at most have two choices at the line. Aaron Rodgers, 381 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:28,280 Speaker 4: of course, without all the pre snap stuff, could just 382 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:31,000 Speaker 4: survey it and do whatever he wanted all those years. 383 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:33,200 Speaker 4: How are they going to make it work? I wrote 384 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:35,200 Speaker 4: about it. I talked about it. It became a thing. 385 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:38,199 Speaker 4: They obviously got through it, and then the two MVPs 386 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:41,240 Speaker 4: of the two championship game appearances, but yeah, it got 387 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:44,680 Speaker 4: stale there, Jordan Love. We saw in the second half 388 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:48,400 Speaker 4: of last season was a revelation. And if you went 389 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:52,800 Speaker 4: around the league in August and said, hey, Malik Willis 390 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:54,800 Speaker 4: is going to win two games as a starter in 391 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:58,840 Speaker 4: September and pulled every GM and coach in the league, 392 00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:01,399 Speaker 4: I don't know if you would have had anyone say 393 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:05,199 Speaker 4: I believe that you're right. Kevin O'Connell and Matt Lafleur 394 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:09,000 Speaker 4: right now are the two coaches who are standing out 395 00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:11,040 Speaker 4: in twenty twenty four. And by the way, Kevin o'connall, 396 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:14,680 Speaker 4: also from this tree, was yeah, vezoc in LA. 397 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:19,200 Speaker 2: It's crazy. So Mike looking macro big picture here, everybody 398 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:22,040 Speaker 2: from the same tree. All the team's pretty much thriving 399 00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:24,320 Speaker 2: despite the start of one and two from the Niners, 400 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:27,159 Speaker 2: and McDaniel's in a weird spot which you injured. It 401 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:29,919 Speaker 2: seems like if you're a quarterback who maybe struggled, I 402 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:32,600 Speaker 2: E I don't know, Sam Darnold, Baker Mayfield, Carson Wentz, 403 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:35,760 Speaker 2: you want to latch onto one of these guys who 404 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:38,320 Speaker 2: seem to have, like you said, the secret sauce. Is 405 00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:39,240 Speaker 2: there something to that? 406 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:42,240 Speaker 4: Yeah, And I can give you one more Derek Carr, 407 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:45,240 Speaker 4: who was red hot to start the season. Oh with 408 00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:48,480 Speaker 4: Clint Kubiak, who just you know, obviously the Kubiaks of 409 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:50,600 Speaker 4: the shadow Ads are in or twined, but he just 410 00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:53,600 Speaker 4: came from Kyle and the Niners. 411 00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:55,120 Speaker 3: So that's another one. 412 00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:57,159 Speaker 4: And then you know the one that I would point to, 413 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 4: probably most glarically in a different way, c J. 414 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:01,160 Speaker 3: Stroud. 415 00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:04,280 Speaker 4: You know, to see a rookie with that kind of 416 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:08,000 Speaker 4: proficiency that early, and that's Bobby Slowick, who was on 417 00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:11,960 Speaker 4: that Washington staff as a defensive quality control coach. Kyle 418 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:14,040 Speaker 4: ended up switching him over to offense and then he 419 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:18,879 Speaker 4: becomes the forty nine er passing game coordinator. So yeah, 420 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:22,120 Speaker 4: I mean there is a secret sauce in that they 421 00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:25,240 Speaker 4: don't look at it as coming up with cool plays 422 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:27,960 Speaker 4: and calling plays off a menu at the right time. 423 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:31,160 Speaker 4: It's an ecosystem and that they learned that from Kyle. 424 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:33,960 Speaker 4: It's about having the things you do, having things you 425 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:40,240 Speaker 4: could do off that, and then studying the opposing defense's rules, 426 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:45,040 Speaker 4: trying to isolate those tendencies and manipulate those rules and 427 00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:50,280 Speaker 4: ideally break them, break the defense by making it impossible 428 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,560 Speaker 4: to defend if you follow those rules, and then playing 429 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:56,680 Speaker 4: off their adjustments. And that's the way they were all 430 00:23:56,760 --> 00:23:59,119 Speaker 4: kind of brought up. And I know, you know my 431 00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:01,920 Speaker 4: own experience in the early nineties as a young beat 432 00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:06,080 Speaker 4: writer covering the forty nine ers, I saw Mike shanahand 433 00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:08,320 Speaker 4: who was a broken guy at the time, had been 434 00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:12,160 Speaker 4: you know, fired early on after a short stint as 435 00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:16,399 Speaker 4: the LA Raiders head coach, was fired in Denver, and 436 00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:20,240 Speaker 4: Dan Reeves, the head coach, accused him of insubordination because 437 00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:23,560 Speaker 4: Reeves felt that Shanna had a John Elway were you know, 438 00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:26,640 Speaker 4: too close, and so he had to kind of rebuild 439 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 4: his reputation. And Steve Young, who was playing for the 440 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:32,560 Speaker 4: injured Joe Montana, was never good enough in the eyes 441 00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:35,200 Speaker 4: of forty nine er fans, even when winning passing titles 442 00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:39,000 Speaker 4: and ultimately MVPs. But Mike Shannon had and Steve Young 443 00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:42,879 Speaker 4: together both transformed their careers. And one of the things 444 00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:46,160 Speaker 4: that I saw Mike Shanna had do vividly was making 445 00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:52,159 Speaker 4: opponents specific and personalize each week's game against that coordinator 446 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:56,200 Speaker 4: or that coach and trying to find a way to 447 00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:59,840 Speaker 4: show them up and used what they do against the 448 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:05,040 Speaker 4: And that is something that has been carried on obviously 449 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:07,119 Speaker 4: through Kyle and through these other guys. 450 00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:11,000 Speaker 1: Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in 451 00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:14,399 Speaker 1: the nation. Catch all of our shows at Foxsports Radio 452 00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:18,600 Speaker 1: dot com and within the iHeartRadio app search FSR to 453 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:19,399 Speaker 1: listen live. 454 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:23,280 Speaker 2: The one guy in your book featured the Why Is 455 00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:26,320 Speaker 2: Everything is Raheem Morris. He's a little different in that 456 00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:29,040 Speaker 2: he's a defensive guy. How does he fit into this crew? 457 00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:32,680 Speaker 4: Well, it's great because, first of all, he and Kyle 458 00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:35,720 Speaker 4: are like best friends from the days when Kyle was 459 00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:39,919 Speaker 4: a quality control coach on John Gruden's Buccaneers staff. But 460 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:45,520 Speaker 4: when Kyle was in that role, he did something very smart, 461 00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:48,720 Speaker 4: which was Mike Shanahan's suggestion, which Mike Shanahan had said 462 00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 4: to him, Look, if you really want to get good 463 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:54,040 Speaker 4: at this, you got to learn defense. You've got Manti Kiffen, 464 00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:58,360 Speaker 4: Rod Marinelli, Joe Barry, Mike Tomlin, Rahee Morris, You've got 465 00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:01,600 Speaker 4: this incredible staff. And so Kyle would go sit in 466 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:04,919 Speaker 4: on their meetings too. And so now fast forward to 467 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:10,320 Speaker 4: Atlanta after their first year, they're twenty fifteen, the receivers 468 00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:15,159 Speaker 4: coach Terry Ribiski leaves and Raheem Morris is asked by 469 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:19,320 Speaker 4: Dan Quinn he's a defensive assistant. Hey, help me find 470 00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:23,840 Speaker 4: some receiver coaches that would work, and Raheem vets some guys. 471 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:26,800 Speaker 4: But then he says to Dan Quinn, you know, Kyle, 472 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:30,800 Speaker 4: does it necessarily need a classic receiver coach? He knows receivers. 473 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:33,800 Speaker 4: He just needs someone who he could trust, who knows 474 00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:36,960 Speaker 4: how he works, who can communicate what he wants, and 475 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:40,400 Speaker 4: who could communicate with him. And then about a hour later, 476 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:43,400 Speaker 4: Dan quick calls Raheem back and goes, what about you? 477 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:49,080 Speaker 4: And eventually rahee Morris becomes the receivers coach at Atlanta, 478 00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:52,479 Speaker 4: and now he learns offense for a couple of years 479 00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:54,480 Speaker 4: on that side of the ball a few years. So 480 00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:57,439 Speaker 4: I would argue the two most well rounded coaches that 481 00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:00,439 Speaker 4: way in the National Football League right now are Kyle 482 00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:01,240 Speaker 4: and Raheeve. 483 00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:03,120 Speaker 3: And Raheve's a. 484 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:05,080 Speaker 4: Great story, had a chance to be a head coach 485 00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:07,960 Speaker 4: at a young age. After Gruden was fired to Tampa, 486 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:11,399 Speaker 4: there was a rebuild went ten and six with Josh 487 00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:15,320 Speaker 4: Freeman almost made the playoffs. Admittedly was not as mature 488 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:19,440 Speaker 4: then and had to wait so long for his second chance. 489 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:23,359 Speaker 4: And I'm just so excited that he finally is getting 490 00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:26,120 Speaker 4: it in Atlanta, and I think he's going to really 491 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:27,080 Speaker 4: do some good things. 492 00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:30,480 Speaker 2: So where do you see this crew going from here? 493 00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:33,520 Speaker 2: As they mature? Is there like a counter crew that 494 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:35,960 Speaker 2: is like, we need to stop the Shanahan tree because 495 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:39,479 Speaker 2: you know, listen, I will say this, Brian Flores in 496 00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:42,360 Speaker 2: Minnesota back to back weeks two and three shut down 497 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:45,240 Speaker 2: brock Perty in the Niners and then really shut down 498 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:48,679 Speaker 2: Stroud and Slowick. Maybe Brian Flores is the man for 499 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:49,080 Speaker 2: the job. 500 00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:53,000 Speaker 4: Well that's you know, you've got the age old Yeah, 501 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:55,360 Speaker 4: who shuts down who? And how do you innovate off? 502 00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:58,080 Speaker 4: And I think this crew will always keep trying to 503 00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:01,440 Speaker 4: stay ahead. But yeah, there's some runnable defensive mines now. 504 00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:05,520 Speaker 4: Vic Fangio has given them a lot of trouble at 505 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:10,480 Speaker 4: the twenty eighteen famous Bears Rams game kind of you know, was. 506 00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:14,840 Speaker 2: Golf was horrible the in the cole Weather well. 507 00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:18,520 Speaker 4: But they collapsed the interior of the line. They had 508 00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:24,160 Speaker 4: shell coverage that played against you know McVeigh telegolf basically 509 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:27,240 Speaker 4: to run play action to throw it blindly. So at 510 00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:31,160 Speaker 4: Belichick you know, capitalized on that in his Super Bowl 511 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:34,280 Speaker 4: game plan that really shut them down. But interestingly, you know, 512 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:38,960 Speaker 4: both Sean and Kyle went and hired what bothered them. 513 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:43,720 Speaker 4: Kyle got Chris Casericas his defensive line coach, and ran 514 00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:48,960 Speaker 4: the wide nine because Jim Schwartz has traditionally, you know, 515 00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:51,360 Speaker 4: been a nightmare for Kyle, which we saw even last 516 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:54,000 Speaker 4: year in Cleveland, and Seawan, off of the scars of 517 00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:57,480 Speaker 4: that twenty eighteen game, ends up getting branded Staley, who 518 00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:00,720 Speaker 4: was part of that Fagio tree, and then Rahem comes 519 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:05,000 Speaker 4: and runs Staley's scheme. Now Staley with Kyle, who has 520 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:07,840 Speaker 4: not changed his back end a lot. But I wonder 521 00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:10,960 Speaker 4: now if with Staley and the building, if he'll start 522 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:14,560 Speaker 4: to incorporate some of that expertise. As a first year 523 00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:18,000 Speaker 4: defensive coordinator, Nick Swortzon seems to grow into the job. 524 00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:21,880 Speaker 4: But you're right, Brad Flores done an incredible job, and 525 00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:25,400 Speaker 4: I think there will always be another crew or another group, 526 00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:29,840 Speaker 4: And obviously you've got great offensive innovators outside of this crew. 527 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:33,360 Speaker 4: The Andy Reids, the Sean Payton's you know who are 528 00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:37,280 Speaker 4: out there. Ben Johnson doing an incredible job. But if 529 00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:40,760 Speaker 4: I had to define, you know, give them a defining characteristic, 530 00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:47,040 Speaker 4: it's that they they will innovate, you know, for the 531 00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:52,800 Speaker 4: sake of innovation, and not just because they think it's 532 00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:56,600 Speaker 4: a cool thing to get ahead, like they they love 533 00:29:56,680 --> 00:30:00,440 Speaker 4: their system, but if they see a problem they have 534 00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:03,840 Speaker 4: to solve. For example, in twenty twelve, RG three is 535 00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:06,400 Speaker 4: going to be our quarterback. He's never taken a snap 536 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:09,120 Speaker 4: from center. How are we going to do this? They'll 537 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:12,720 Speaker 4: find a way to transport their entire offense and run 538 00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:15,480 Speaker 4: it out of the pistol, which was mind blowing at 539 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:18,920 Speaker 4: the time. I caught the league by storm because it 540 00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:23,760 Speaker 4: was the Dan Snyder Redskins that dysfunction overtook them. But 541 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:28,239 Speaker 4: in league circles, people were like, what just happened? At 542 00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:29,240 Speaker 4: least for that season. 543 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:31,960 Speaker 2: No, definitely, I'm wondering, like, We're going to see a 544 00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:34,360 Speaker 2: lot of coaching openings every year. There's five, six, seven. 545 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:38,080 Speaker 2: It's weird, though. Are we at the point, Mike where 546 00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:40,920 Speaker 2: it's like, Hey, get me one of Shanahan's guys, get 547 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:43,640 Speaker 2: me one of McDaniel's guys, lafleur, is that just what 548 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,720 Speaker 2: we're doing, because it feels like, I mean, Kobiak, like 549 00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:49,480 Speaker 2: you said, he's going to be the number one interview choice. 550 00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:50,720 Speaker 2: It just keeps up with the Worlands. 551 00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:51,920 Speaker 3: Well, it's funny. 552 00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:55,120 Speaker 4: We had the friend of Sean McVay era and there's 553 00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:57,480 Speaker 4: a chapter actually in the book called friend of McVeigh. 554 00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:04,080 Speaker 4: So not only was mcveigh's association a key attribute, but 555 00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:07,080 Speaker 4: to the point where when the Cardinals hired Cliff Kingsbury 556 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:11,000 Speaker 4: they literally put it in the press release he is 557 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:14,920 Speaker 4: close friends with Sean McVay, who is an offensive genius, 558 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:18,480 Speaker 4: and that got, you know, on social media, that got 559 00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:21,960 Speaker 4: cloud mercilessly. It was kind of the equivalent of the 560 00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:26,880 Speaker 4: Colts banner for getting to the AFC Championship game. And 561 00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:31,360 Speaker 4: you know, so there is some of that with that 562 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:34,120 Speaker 4: whole crew. And I think Bobby Slowik, who really was 563 00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:37,160 Speaker 4: a hot candidate already last year after the one year 564 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:37,640 Speaker 4: with CJ. 565 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,560 Speaker 3: Stroud, is another guy. So I think you're always going 566 00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:41,080 Speaker 3: to have that. 567 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:43,960 Speaker 4: And listen, I think if you're an owner, one of 568 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:47,400 Speaker 4: the things you want is someone who's not just you know, 569 00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:50,080 Speaker 4: calling cool plays but who has a system, who has 570 00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:55,240 Speaker 4: a philosophy, who has a way of, you know, approaching 571 00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:58,720 Speaker 4: it that is beyond just coming up with a menu. 572 00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:01,400 Speaker 4: And I'm gonna call this now and this now, and 573 00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:04,160 Speaker 4: so I think it's clear that all of these people 574 00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:05,600 Speaker 4: will at least be able. 575 00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:06,480 Speaker 3: To say that. 576 00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:09,760 Speaker 4: On the other hand, you know, as someone who's been 577 00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:13,640 Speaker 4: all over the diversity thing for literally thirty five years, 578 00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:16,960 Speaker 4: and you know Raheem Morris being a prime example of 579 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:18,680 Speaker 4: a guy who had to wait so long for a 580 00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:24,440 Speaker 4: second chance. I hope that when these owners are considering 581 00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:29,320 Speaker 4: these things, they're very, very mindful of the lack of 582 00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:33,200 Speaker 4: opportunities minorities are getting on the offensive side. It doesn't 583 00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:35,800 Speaker 4: just have to be offense. Brian Floyd is a great 584 00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:39,840 Speaker 4: example of a guy who should be an obvious head 585 00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:42,880 Speaker 4: coaching candidate. He's got two strikes against him. One is 586 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:46,280 Speaker 4: he's suing the league for a class act, you know, 587 00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:49,880 Speaker 4: on a class action suit that is alleging systemic racism. 588 00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:52,920 Speaker 4: And I think he's right and be and I think 589 00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:58,239 Speaker 4: Brian would admit this. He from the Belichickian tree, you know, 590 00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:01,920 Speaker 4: was not great on the people skill side in Miami, 591 00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:04,600 Speaker 4: and that ultimately led to his undoings. So I think, 592 00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:09,840 Speaker 4: you know, as with others who have you know, changed 593 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:12,960 Speaker 4: their approach a little bit the next time around. I 594 00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:15,959 Speaker 4: think Brian will adapt on that way. But if an 595 00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:19,440 Speaker 4: owner is scared to hire him because of litigation and 596 00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:22,480 Speaker 4: they're bitter about that, that would be frustrating to me 597 00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:27,840 Speaker 4: because he's clearly an incredible mind and a guy who 598 00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:29,120 Speaker 4: can galvanize its guys. 599 00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:32,040 Speaker 2: It's funny you mentioned the Belichick tree and it just 600 00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:36,240 Speaker 2: dawned upon me. Holy caw. The Shanahan tree has accomplished way, 601 00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:39,040 Speaker 2: way more, yeah than the So what do you think 602 00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:42,080 Speaker 2: that's an offensive, defensive thing or just random? And you know, 603 00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:42,920 Speaker 2: who knows? 604 00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:48,479 Speaker 4: No, I think, you know, I think so many of 605 00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:54,240 Speaker 4: the Belichick disciples have focused on the wrong things. I 606 00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:57,560 Speaker 4: think they believe that if you act like Bill and 607 00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:01,800 Speaker 4: if you're secretive and kind of a jerk and asserting 608 00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:06,360 Speaker 4: your power in the hallways and just you know, focusing 609 00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:10,200 Speaker 4: on those things, that you're building this program that's going 610 00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:13,399 Speaker 4: to ultimately be like the Patriots. And I would urge 611 00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:18,319 Speaker 4: them to reconsider that in retrospect and say, probably, if 612 00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:21,040 Speaker 4: you have Tom Brady and you're one of the greatest 613 00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:24,239 Speaker 4: coaches of all time, which Bill is, You're going to 614 00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:26,799 Speaker 4: do really well. And it doesn't really matter if you're 615 00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:30,640 Speaker 4: an a hole or if you're Tony Dungee or someone 616 00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:34,680 Speaker 4: with incredible interpersonal skills. If you have Tom Brady and 617 00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:38,000 Speaker 4: you can coach like Bill, you'll be great. So focus 618 00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:41,279 Speaker 4: on trying to do that. And you know, and there 619 00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:43,880 Speaker 4: are exceptions, right, Thomas de Mettroft did really well as 620 00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:47,680 Speaker 4: the Falcons GM Bill O'Brien. Bill O'Brien won division titles 621 00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:52,320 Speaker 4: with Tom Savage and Blake brock Osweiler. Right, So I 622 00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:56,520 Speaker 4: would argue that he did pretty well in Houston. But 623 00:34:56,640 --> 00:34:58,480 Speaker 4: you know, you have your Matt Patricia's and your Josh 624 00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:04,320 Speaker 4: McDaniels and you're you know, just utter flameouts where it 625 00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:06,480 Speaker 4: just didn't it didn't go well. 626 00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:08,480 Speaker 2: And let me ask this, since a lot of these 627 00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:13,720 Speaker 2: guys came up in the Shanahan Tree. I'm of the belief, 628 00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:15,879 Speaker 2: when you're hot, when you're running hot and calling great 629 00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:18,719 Speaker 2: plays and you know you're everybody loves you, you got 630 00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:21,920 Speaker 2: to strike while the iron's hot. And we saw Ben Johnson. 631 00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:24,319 Speaker 2: I don't know what tree he belongs to, if any, Yeah, 632 00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:27,160 Speaker 2: we saw him really Okay, we saw him decide. Now 633 00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:29,439 Speaker 2: I'm gonna stick in Detroit for another year. And Mike, 634 00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:32,640 Speaker 2: I'm not being overly critical. It's only three games. They 635 00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:36,520 Speaker 2: have not looked particularly dynamic or interesting for the first 636 00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:38,879 Speaker 2: three games. And I'm not saying he's been passed by 637 00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:44,880 Speaker 2: Koobiak or even slower. But I do just wander talking 638 00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:47,600 Speaker 2: to McVeigh and McDaniel and all these guys. Do you 639 00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:49,680 Speaker 2: get a sense that they are of the belief strike 640 00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:51,479 Speaker 2: while the iron's hot, you never know when you're gonna 641 00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:52,240 Speaker 2: get a second chance. 642 00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:57,960 Speaker 4: Yeah, But I also think the scars of the past 643 00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:01,279 Speaker 4: are are there, and they so on Mike Shanahan. This 644 00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:04,040 Speaker 4: should be Hall of Fame coach. I hope he will 645 00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:06,759 Speaker 4: be soon. I hope this book helps. But a guy who's, 646 00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:11,000 Speaker 4: you know, an incredible coach have his career ended by 647 00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:16,080 Speaker 4: a bad ownership situation partly and a bad situation at Washington, 648 00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:18,880 Speaker 4: and I think seeing him go through that and just 649 00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:22,160 Speaker 4: how bad it got at the end, you know, I 650 00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:25,480 Speaker 4: know Sean talks about it in the book. He just says, yeah, 651 00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:29,719 Speaker 4: it's made me not take for granted some of you know, 652 00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:33,640 Speaker 4: the opportunities that I've had and realize how important it 653 00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:37,640 Speaker 4: is to have an organization in alignment. So I do 654 00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:39,880 Speaker 4: think you ought to be careful. And of course Kyle 655 00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:43,399 Speaker 4: had dysfunction in Cleveland right afterwards he got out after 656 00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:47,320 Speaker 4: a year, so yeah, it's and as far as Ben Johnson, 657 00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:49,560 Speaker 4: he did that two years in a row now, so 658 00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:51,480 Speaker 4: now it's interesting. I mean, I could see him do 659 00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:52,960 Speaker 4: it at once, but two years in a row he 660 00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:54,840 Speaker 4: could have had a head coaching job instead. 661 00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:55,920 Speaker 3: I'm staying in Detroit now. 662 00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:59,040 Speaker 4: Jared Goffho's a big character in the book, is super 663 00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:02,160 Speaker 4: happy about that. And possibly what you're seeing early this 664 00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:05,359 Speaker 4: year is just they got a big, nasty offensive line. 665 00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:07,680 Speaker 4: It's the best part of their team that are leaning 666 00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:11,520 Speaker 4: on that, maybe in a more basic way early on, 667 00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:15,640 Speaker 4: But you know, I do think at some point you 668 00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:19,040 Speaker 4: might look back and go mad. You had so many 669 00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:22,719 Speaker 4: options and maybe you know it passes you by. He 670 00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:25,120 Speaker 4: is young enough and highly regarded enough, and you asked 671 00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:27,920 Speaker 4: what tree. He seems to be a hybrid who really 672 00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:32,120 Speaker 4: isn't from any tree, and I think is viewed as 673 00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:36,879 Speaker 4: kind of, you know, happy anomaly, which I think will 674 00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:39,800 Speaker 4: help him. So I would expect him to still be 675 00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:43,040 Speaker 4: back in that mix and look, you know, as much 676 00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:45,440 Speaker 4: as I make fun of Dan Campbell and to me, 677 00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:50,640 Speaker 4: he's a caricature at times that embodies that meathead culture. 678 00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:53,400 Speaker 4: In the past, I talked about, you know, we're going 679 00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:56,880 Speaker 4: for two. Wait, there's a penalty. We're back at the seven. 680 00:37:57,080 --> 00:37:59,279 Speaker 4: We're still knowing for two because I said so, you know, 681 00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:02,280 Speaker 4: I like to make one of them, but I can't 682 00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:06,480 Speaker 4: deny what an incredible culture he has built and what 683 00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:09,840 Speaker 4: a turnaround has happened there. And that's not just all 684 00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:15,200 Speaker 4: cool plays called by Ben. That is a testament to 685 00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:18,839 Speaker 4: a guy who played the league, and he must be 686 00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:22,319 Speaker 4: doing things that are not so you know, bite him 687 00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:26,560 Speaker 4: in the decaps cliche behind the scenes. Uh so, Yeah, 688 00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:30,800 Speaker 4: I mean, I'm really excited that you're asking these questions. 689 00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:33,680 Speaker 4: These are the absolute right questions to ask. I'm not surprised. 690 00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:35,880 Speaker 4: We go way back to what you were asking me 691 00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:39,640 Speaker 4: questions about. You know, Hey, are you really leaving Sports 692 00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:41,120 Speaker 4: Illustrated to go to Yahoo? Dude? 693 00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:43,360 Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, that seems incredible. 694 00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:45,120 Speaker 2: But what is that like two thousand and eight? 695 00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:50,200 Speaker 3: Maybe, yeah, you were one of them. I'll give you credit. 696 00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:53,560 Speaker 4: You were one of the few people who understood what 697 00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:56,520 Speaker 4: was going on at least like most people in two 698 00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:58,840 Speaker 4: thousand and seven were like, you're gonna leave your dream 699 00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:03,880 Speaker 4: job and go to you know, a website. But you 700 00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:06,480 Speaker 4: kind of were ahead on that. You saw what was happening. 701 00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:08,800 Speaker 2: That's a turn back the clock. Woman, Hold on, you 702 00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:11,600 Speaker 2: said one thing that triggered something you said. Jared Goff 703 00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:13,640 Speaker 2: is a central figure in the book. Does he talk 704 00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:19,120 Speaker 2: about the McVeigh kind of dumping him to Detroit? And yeah? 705 00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:20,719 Speaker 2: He is it sad or no? 706 00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:22,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's hard. 707 00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:24,560 Speaker 4: It was hard for me because I'm close with both guys, 708 00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:27,520 Speaker 4: and you know, it got so much. 709 00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:29,399 Speaker 2: You're a cow guy, that's right, and he's a kid. 710 00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:32,320 Speaker 4: I'm a cow guy, and I go way back with Sean, 711 00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:36,560 Speaker 4: and I covered Sean's grandfather early on as on the 712 00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:39,080 Speaker 4: forty nine er Beat, who was their general manager. So 713 00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:41,799 Speaker 4: you know, I've know Kyle since he's thirteen. I feel 714 00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:45,160 Speaker 4: this kinship with Sean, and I've gotten to know these 715 00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:48,680 Speaker 4: other guys really, really well. So all of them will 716 00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:50,839 Speaker 4: be mad about at least something of the book, if 717 00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:54,400 Speaker 4: not some things. So I say this lovingly, but I 718 00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:56,799 Speaker 4: just tried to write the truth, and when it came 719 00:39:56,840 --> 00:39:59,000 Speaker 4: to Sean and Jared I gave him each a shot 720 00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:02,080 Speaker 4: that you know, you get both their perspectives. It got 721 00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:04,800 Speaker 4: really really bad, you know, and you'll see some examples 722 00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:07,480 Speaker 4: in there where you're like, whoa, It was real bad 723 00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:10,879 Speaker 4: at the end, and to the point where think about this, 724 00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:14,799 Speaker 4: Jared Goff, who had injured the thumb, gets called in 725 00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:17,920 Speaker 4: cold after zero reps in that playoff game in Seattle, 726 00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:21,640 Speaker 4: after John Wolford had lasted by Jameel Adams and you know, 727 00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:23,800 Speaker 4: doesn't have an epic game, but plays well enough to 728 00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:27,200 Speaker 4: win a playoff game against Pete Carroll and Seattle. And 729 00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:29,520 Speaker 4: now they're going to Green Bay in the cold to 730 00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:33,440 Speaker 4: play Aaron Rodgers at batt Leafloor and John Wolford had 731 00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:35,760 Speaker 4: been knocked out with what they called a neck injury. 732 00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:39,960 Speaker 4: Sure looked like a head injury too, And ultimately it 733 00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:43,120 Speaker 4: was a moot point because John Wolford was not medically cleared. 734 00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:47,760 Speaker 4: But even after that, Sean McVay wanted to start John 735 00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:52,440 Speaker 4: Wolford in that game against the Packers instead of Jared Goff. 736 00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:54,560 Speaker 3: So that's how bad it had gotten. 737 00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:57,760 Speaker 2: Oh man, that's a rough one. Anyways, all right, Mike Silver, 738 00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:03,319 Speaker 2: the why is everything it's October first sounds fascinating. If 739 00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:05,239 Speaker 2: you like the NFL, you're going to love this book. Mike, 740 00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:06,880 Speaker 2: thanks a lot, man, This is great. 741 00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:10,160 Speaker 4: Thanks Jason, keep doing your thing and I look forward 742 00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:11,960 Speaker 4: to seeing you in person one of these years.