Speaker 1: Welcome back to Cutting the Distance. Today, We're gonna have
Speaker 1: a little different feel to the show. I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: have a guest on. We're gonna jump into preparing for
Speaker 1: an el cunt. We get a lot of questions as
Speaker 1: far as I'm coming on my first l cunt or
Speaker 1: they've experienced maybe some lowland front country and they're wanting
Speaker 1: to expand they're wanting to go a little bit deeper,
Speaker 1: they're wanting to try new areas. So we're gonna just
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go ahead and take some user questions, and
Speaker 1: then I'm just going to go over seven eight different
Speaker 1: points that I think can really help you as you
Speaker 1: prepare for your upcoming L hunt this year. So the
Speaker 1: first thing we're going to jump into, like I said,
Speaker 1: user questions, I'm gonna go ahead and answer these. And
Speaker 1: if you have any questions of your own for us
Speaker 1: here at Cutting the Distance, either myself or our guests,
Speaker 1: feel free to email us at CTD at phelpsgame Calls
Speaker 1: dot com. We'll do our best to get those questions answered.
Speaker 1: You can also message us on social media if that's easier. So,
Speaker 1: the first question, what ELK sounds should I be able
Speaker 1: to make and how good of a caller do I
Speaker 1: need to be before I head into the woods in September. So,
Speaker 1: in my opinion, you can go into the Elk woods
Speaker 1: with just a I mean, you can count them on one hand.
Speaker 1: I would say, first of all, you need to be
Speaker 1: able to make a location bugle without getting too deep
Speaker 1: into it. I would say, just any bugle. If you
Speaker 1: can make a location bugle or a challenge bugle, or
Speaker 1: one or the other.
Speaker 2: That's gonna be fine.
Speaker 1: I'll do a little bit to explain the difference between
Speaker 1: a location bugle and a challenge bogle. So a location
Speaker 1: bugle is typically a three note two to three no
Speaker 1: very high note bugle, and it's not going to have
Speaker 1: a lot of rasp to it. It's going to be
Speaker 1: very clean, and I usually keep it about two to
Speaker 1: three seconds so then I can hear to make sure
Speaker 1: that a bull is going to respond.
Speaker 2: So if we were.
Speaker 1: To describe a location bugle, it's two to three note,
Speaker 1: very high. We're not adding a lot of void, We're
Speaker 1: not adding the grould at the beginning. I'm just a
Speaker 1: very clean note that's intended to travel very far, you know,
Speaker 1: across the canyon down into a canyon. And I've always
Speaker 1: said that if I know I'm doing it right, when
Speaker 1: that high note is ear piercing, when it's kind of
Speaker 1: rattling my own brain, when it's kind of getting to
Speaker 1: my you know, it's a it's almost an obnoxious ring.
Speaker 1: When we get that location bugle to that volume and
Speaker 1: that pitch is really where it seems like we get
Speaker 1: the best response from the elk. And to be honest,
Speaker 1: that's the call that we're going to use. Probably you know,
Speaker 1: over seventy five percent of time, three quarters, maybe even
Speaker 1: up to ninety percent, is your walking ridges, as you're
Speaker 1: walking trails, as you're in the woods. You're going to
Speaker 1: just be using location bugles for the majority of the time.
Speaker 1: If if I'm on maybe you know, warm sign or
Speaker 1: I can smell elk or we've got fresh tracks, I
Speaker 1: may locate with a cow call or a loud cow
Speaker 1: call off of specific points, But most of the time
Speaker 1: we're using location bugles as we walk by. Second, of all,
Speaker 1: you need to be able to make just your typical
Speaker 1: cow call, your your meal. Yeah, that's all we're doing.
Speaker 1: You need to be able to make a clean cow call.
Speaker 1: If you can do that, you can put a little
Speaker 1: more pressure on the read, shorten it up, and get
Speaker 1: your calf call not as important in my opinion, But
Speaker 1: if you can have that cow call, you're gonna be
Speaker 1: you know, able able to replicate that and use it
Speaker 1: where needed. Third, uh, I use estros wines a lot,
Speaker 1: and there we can argue all day amongst guys that
Speaker 1: that you know the term, what each call is and
Speaker 1: what his name should be. But in my opinion, and
Speaker 1: estress wine is when a cow is is coming into estrus,
Speaker 1: she needs a little more attention from her bowls. So
Speaker 1: instead of the typical yeah, you know, our our typical
Speaker 1: cow sound, that's gonna be wavy. So it's gonna go
Speaker 1: high low, hilow, and we're gonna we're gonna use those
Speaker 1: estress wines to then tell that bowl to come over here.
Speaker 1: I need some attention, Come pay attention to me. So
Speaker 1: I go on with an an estress wine, and then
Speaker 1: I would say, like the fourth sound we need to
Speaker 1: be able to do is do some sort of a
Speaker 1: challenge bugle a little more aggression. It's got some of
Speaker 1: that growl and throatiness in the beginning. You're gonna add
Speaker 1: some voice back into it. You know, using your your throat,
Speaker 1: your veil, you know, using that back of your throat
Speaker 1: to really you know, add some of that growl and
Speaker 1: real realism to the call. And then I also like
Speaker 1: to be able to either add grunts or chuckles onto
Speaker 1: the end of that bugle to add some realism. And
Speaker 1: aside from that, that's really what you need to be
Speaker 1: able to make those four sounds. So on the bugle side,
Speaker 1: a location bugle, add a little bit of aggression and
Speaker 1: in the grunt. And then on the cow side, if
Speaker 1: we can go out with a good cow mew and
Speaker 1: then like an estriss wine, we're gonna be we're gonna
Speaker 1: be really really well off. And I would say we
Speaker 1: we throw some other stuff in like screams, bark, chuckles,
Speaker 1: you know, uh, estress buzzes.
Speaker 2: There.
Speaker 1: There's some other sounds that we will throw in that
Speaker 1: we will make at certain times, but for the majority
Speaker 1: of time they're not necessarily needed. And then we've answered
Speaker 1: this a lot before, but how good of a color
Speaker 1: do you need to be in? In my opinion, it's
Speaker 1: much more important to know when to call and kind
Speaker 1: of what to say and how to react to the
Speaker 1: situation than it is on how good you are. Yes,
Speaker 1: it's important. A lot of times we'll use mimicry as
Speaker 1: some of our strategy. It makes a lot of sense
Speaker 1: to be able to mimic that animal, and it takes
Speaker 1: some skill to figure out or know what you need
Speaker 1: to do to that diaphragm to be able to make
Speaker 1: that sound.
Speaker 2: So not as important of being a good caller.
Speaker 1: More important as knowing when and how to react the situation,
Speaker 1: read it and know when you need to call, when
Speaker 1: to add some intensity, when to move in some of
Speaker 1: those things, And then it wasn't really in the question.
Speaker 1: You can accomplish all of this either through diaphragms through
Speaker 1: If you can't use that, you can use some of
Speaker 1: our external cal calls like the easy s just the
Speaker 1: easy sucker. If you can't run a diaphragm through just
Speaker 1: a standard bigle tube or grunt tube, we've got the
Speaker 1: easy biggler that will then also allow you to be
Speaker 1: able to make those bagles. So there are a lot
Speaker 1: of combinations you can use to be able to make
Speaker 1: those four elk sounds that we talked about that I
Speaker 1: just mentioned. You need to be able to be able
Speaker 1: to make as you head out into the elk woods.
Speaker 1: The second question, how do I decide where to go
Speaker 1: elk cutting? So you know, we get these questions a
Speaker 1: lot from people back east, even people around home that
Speaker 1: have only ever hunted around home. They're just trying to
Speaker 1: figure out where can you go? L count where are
Speaker 1: their opportunities? And as cliche as it sounds, you have
Speaker 1: to have you know, that elk tag. You have to
Speaker 1: have the opportunity before you can go hunt these elk
Speaker 1: and so the first way is through most of these
Speaker 1: western states, even some of the Eastern states now that
Speaker 1: are starting to get re established herds of elk is.
Speaker 1: You'll have to have points for most states, with Idaho
Speaker 1: and New Mexico being the exception. But they also don't
Speaker 1: allow over the counter opportunities, so you have to make
Speaker 1: sure to get into those draws. Idaho requires you to
Speaker 1: one either jump into their I would call it their
Speaker 1: waiting room lottery on December first, which has already passed us.
Speaker 1: So you're not gonna be able to get that elk
Speaker 1: tag for this year, but it's it's held pretty steady
Speaker 1: that date for the last two years. And New Mexico
Speaker 1: doesn't have points, so it's it's also already passed us.
Speaker 1: But you also have to front the money for the
Speaker 1: tag up front, so it detours a few people, I
Speaker 1: would say, from applying. So those two states don't have points.
Speaker 1: The rest of the states across the west have points.
Speaker 1: So you're uh, your Nevada, your Utah, Wyoming, Colorado, everything
Speaker 1: requires some points. Colorado does have a lot of over
Speaker 1: the counter, which I'll also get to, but Colorado has points.
Speaker 1: And then there are these states that don't have points.
Speaker 1: So and it's it's it's this list is becoming smaller
Speaker 1: and smaller as years ago on, as people implement systems,
Speaker 1: as they add units to the systems. So and I
Speaker 1: may be a little bit incorrect here, but but for
Speaker 1: the I would say, for conversation's sake and the majority
Speaker 1: of the opportunity, the states that you haven't over the
Speaker 1: counter opportunity in right now are Washington, and that would
Speaker 1: be west and east. But I would say when we
Speaker 1: consider over the counter in Washington, they're mainly talking about
Speaker 1: Roosevelt's West of the Cascades. There is some decent eastern
Speaker 1: Washington opportunity, but you're going to be hunting spikes or
Speaker 1: in units that maybe don't have high densities of elk.
Speaker 1: You have the same inn organ where you now need
Speaker 1: to apply, but you can do over the counter on
Speaker 1: the west side. Colorado has a lot of over the
Speaker 1: counter opportunities, and there are a few places in Utah
Speaker 1: where there's some over the counter opportunities. But that's really
Speaker 1: if you haven't been in the draws or don't have
Speaker 1: a tag and you're wanting to get out this year,
Speaker 1: you need to kind of focus your efforts on those
Speaker 1: three states Washington, Oregon, Colorado, and that's how you're going
Speaker 1: to have to find opportunity. Wyoming used to be a
Speaker 1: place you could go hunt maybe every two years. Looking
Speaker 1: at the dry out numbers this year, it looks like
Speaker 1: at maybe four four and a half, maybe even five
Speaker 1: points now just to hunt general in Wyoming. Fingers crossed
Speaker 1: as a non resident that they don't implement the ninety
Speaker 1: ten split there because I feel that we would bump
Speaker 1: that number up just six seven eight years to draw
Speaker 1: a Wyoming elk tag, and Wyoming is a special place
Speaker 1: to elk hunt, really really enjoy it. But they're making
Speaker 1: some changes to potentially get their residents additional tags, which
Speaker 1: I can't fault them for but it would hurt me
Speaker 1: as a non resident.
Speaker 2: So yeah, you either got to be in the point game.
Speaker 1: You got a few states you can do over the counter,
Speaker 1: and that's you're going to have to figure out where
Speaker 1: to get that tag.
Speaker 2: So that you can go go on your hunt.
Speaker 1: Would you recommend going with a guide for your first
Speaker 1: elk hunt. I've always said the best way to learn
Speaker 1: elk hunting is to go with someone who knows what
Speaker 1: they're doing. You can cut years, five, ten, twenty years
Speaker 1: off of what it may take to get to that
Speaker 1: experience level if you go with somebody that's been there
Speaker 1: before and teach you what to do and what not
Speaker 1: to do. So you can learn by going with somebody
Speaker 1: that knows or an outfitter or a guide. As long
Speaker 1: as they're good and reputable, they will knock off the
Speaker 1: learning curve and then you'll have that knowledge for the
Speaker 1: rest of your life. So I can only voice my
Speaker 1: opinion that if you've got the financial resources and the
Speaker 1: ability to go with a guide for your first all cunt,
Speaker 1: I think it's a great way to go about it.
Speaker 1: If you're only wanting to go on maybe one l
Speaker 1: cunt and you don't plan on going in the future,
Speaker 1: it would still be a good idea to potentially go
Speaker 1: with a guide or outfitter. The odds for success are
Speaker 1: going to be drastically higher than if you were to
Speaker 1: do it on your own. But on the contrary, there's
Speaker 1: something special about if you were to go out do
Speaker 1: it on your own research scout, which we're going to
Speaker 1: get into here in the discussion. If you can put
Speaker 1: some of these things together and do it on your own,
Speaker 1: there's a lot more satisfaction potentially involved. Maybe you don't
Speaker 1: care how you know how you kill an elk and
Speaker 1: so it doesn't matter, And by all means, go with
Speaker 1: a guide outfitter. Learn what they know and then you
Speaker 1: can apply that for you know, all of your future
Speaker 1: a cunts. So it's really just up to you your finances.
Speaker 1: One thing I would highly recommend is vetting your guider outfitter.
Speaker 1: Make sure they they're reputable, make sure they do things
Speaker 1: the right way, make sure they hunt hard.
Speaker 2: And I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 1: I don't dog on private land hunting, but an elk
Speaker 1: with a guide an outfitter on private land where it's
Speaker 1: gonna be a lot different than a guider outfitter that
Speaker 1: takes in the mountains and you know, nothing's nothing's a gimme,
Speaker 1: nothing's patterned. Maybe I say nothing's patterned. Nothing's patterned to
Speaker 1: the point of a lot of private land hunts and
Speaker 1: you're gonna have to hunt, You're gonna have to work,
Speaker 1: You're gonna have to you know, and that's really where
Speaker 1: you're gonna learn it and kind of start to gain
Speaker 1: that knowledge base that will pay off year after years.
Speaker 1: So that's that's my answer for those three questions. Once again,
Speaker 1: you have questions of your own, feel free to email
Speaker 1: us at CTD at Phelps game Calls dot com, or
Speaker 1: hit us up on social media, send us a message,
Speaker 1: and we'll try to plug these into the podcast. So
Speaker 1: let's assume that we've we've got the tag going off
Speaker 1: of that that listener question. You know, you got to
Speaker 1: find the tag first. Let's assume you've got to tag.
Speaker 1: What do you do Once you've got to tag? You
Speaker 1: either confined to a unit, you're confined too at general areas.
Speaker 1: You know, Montana's got some tags that are you know,
Speaker 1: nine hundred series that are kind of scattered all over
Speaker 1: the state. You've got Wyoming where you get a general
Speaker 1: tag and you've got kind of checkerboarded units all across
Speaker 1: the state you can hunt, you know, a Montana big game,
Speaker 1: you can hunt a lot of units aside from the
Speaker 1: selected units. So you really just have to figure out
Speaker 1: now that you've got to tag, where are you gonna hunt?
Speaker 1: Same with Oregon, Washington. You know you've got to You've
Speaker 1: got an over the counter tag, You've got a lot
Speaker 1: of units to choose from. How are you going to
Speaker 1: zero in on a place to park your truck to
Speaker 1: camp to go out after out? So one thing we're
Speaker 1: gonna get into is looking at success. Uh. First thing
Speaker 1: I do if I was a draw general tag is
Speaker 1: start to go through you know, whether it's it's go hunt,
Speaker 1: whether it's the fish and Wildlife website, brochures, harvest statistics,
Speaker 1: any of that. I'm going to start there and look
Speaker 1: at what I'm trying to accomplish. If you're just looking
Speaker 1: to kill any legal cows and bowls, I would go
Speaker 1: look at population densities, I would go look at hunter success.
Speaker 1: I would also hunter success and one hundred days in
Speaker 1: the field for success are two different things as well,
Speaker 1: So you can start to look at that and if
Speaker 1: if killing any elk is what your goal is, go
Speaker 1: off of that, and then you're we're gonna talk about
Speaker 1: some other things here. You're gonna want to vet that,
Speaker 1: confirm it, and I'll give you some resources here in
Speaker 1: a little bit. If you're if you're wanting to hunt
Speaker 1: any bowl, maybe maybe your your goal wasn't to kill
Speaker 1: a cow, but any bowl, you can then go start
Speaker 1: to look at percent by you know, harvest bisex and
Speaker 1: maybe maybe you don't care if it's a six plus
Speaker 1: you know, six point plus bowl and you're just looking
Speaker 1: at any bowl, then you can start to weed through
Speaker 1: that information. If if I'm going to a unit that
Speaker 1: has or or if I'm looking to harvest a bowl
Speaker 1: that is, you know, six plus points are better, I'm
Speaker 1: looking for something big, mature, I'm willing to then also
Speaker 1: sacrifice hunter success and one hundred days in the field.
Speaker 1: And like my main the my priority is on percent
Speaker 1: of bulls that are taken out of the unit that
Speaker 1: are six point or better. I typically want like lower
Speaker 1: hunter numbers, So i want a unit that has big bulls,
Speaker 1: doesn't have as many hunters, And I'm really trying to
Speaker 1: look at at some of that to to figure out
Speaker 1: what unit I'm going to hunt. And another thing that's
Speaker 1: more I would say maybe is even specific to me.
Speaker 1: There are some people that will go out there and
Speaker 1: they don't really care what they're hunting or what type
Speaker 1: of terrain they're hunting. U you know, whether it's flatlands,
Speaker 1: whether it's rolling hills, whether it's blm. I coming from
Speaker 1: Southwest Washington, where I grew up hunting in what I
Speaker 1: would consider the jungle, you know, Devil's clubs in the
Speaker 1: bottom ferns, brush just you know, kind of that rainforest setting.
Speaker 1: When I leave Washington or or Western Washington, I don't
Speaker 1: want to go into a brushole, you know. So I'm
Speaker 1: going to avoid avoid North Idaho. I'm going to avoid
Speaker 1: some of those places that are just thick and brushy.
Speaker 1: I'm looking for something, you know, above tree line. I
Speaker 1: want to get up in the mountains. I want to
Speaker 1: have a mix of alpine and subalpine and then you know,
Speaker 1: crick and river bottoms. So I'm also looking for something
Speaker 1: that's maybe even completely separated from the elk or the
Speaker 1: elk successes in that area. I'm looking for certain terrain
Speaker 1: and certain areas and canyon country that I want to
Speaker 1: hunt versus say, rolling hills, you know, or something like that. Now,
Speaker 1: when I you know, I'm hunted New Mexico before, and
Speaker 1: we are, we're in you know, rolling Juniper, and you
Speaker 1: you adapt to it. You may work it's elk cunning.
Speaker 1: I still love it. But for the most part, I'm
Speaker 1: also trying to find a place that I just like
Speaker 1: to be in. So we've looked at harvest statistics, I
Speaker 1: then look at places I want to hunt, and that
Speaker 1: kind of starts to zero me in, and then some
Speaker 1: of these other points that I'm going to get into
Speaker 1: will well.
Speaker 2: Then further that.
Speaker 1: The first thing I do after that, I've kind of
Speaker 1: zoned in on an area and it's going to be
Speaker 1: called a biologist. But but I don't want to call
Speaker 1: a biologist with an empty question how are the elk doing?
Speaker 1: Where should I hunt? Because when you ask that question,
Speaker 1: that biologist has given the same answer to everybody else
Speaker 1: that calls for unit. I have a hard time believing
Speaker 1: that that biologist is like, you know what, last time
Speaker 1: I told somebody go to you know, Mountain A, and
Speaker 1: this time I'm going to tell somebody to go to
Speaker 1: Mountain B. And then the next color I'll tell to
Speaker 1: go to Mountain c You're getting a very generic answer
Speaker 1: of an area where he may know people harvest elk
Speaker 1: and people have harvested in the past, and they don't
Speaker 1: give you very good data. And they may not have
Speaker 1: good data when you bring them specific spots, drainages or areas.
Speaker 1: But at least you're starting to ask those questions and
Speaker 1: you're not going to get the generic answer. So I
Speaker 1: would like to pick up the phone and call the biologists,
Speaker 1: get a little bit of understanding on like are these
Speaker 1: elk migrating, when do they finish their migration up into
Speaker 1: the high country, what does the herd health look like?
Speaker 1: And then maybe some of these biologists are really good
Speaker 1: in know their unit or a lot of times if
Speaker 1: I give him areas they're not sure about, they'll give
Speaker 1: me a call back, they'll do some research, ask around.
Speaker 1: So I like to call a biologist just to get
Speaker 1: a feel for it. It may not be the best information,
Speaker 1: but at least it's it kind of adds to that
Speaker 1: portfolio for your hunt.
Speaker 2: You know, what are they all doing.
Speaker 1: Maybe they've got good data on where you're at, Maybe
Speaker 1: maybe they don't.
Speaker 2: So I always call it. But I'll just get that
Speaker 2: out of the way. I then.
Speaker 1: Like to just kind of call the outfitters and I'm
Speaker 1: upfront in the area if there is an outfitter or
Speaker 1: a guide work in the area, like, hey, I drew
Speaker 1: a tag for this unit, or I've got a tag
Speaker 1: for this unit, or I've got a tag I'm thinking
Speaker 1: about but going there, I'm just getting some information, you know,
Speaker 1: not wanting to step on your toes. We're looking to
Speaker 1: make sure we're not in the same area, you know,
Speaker 1: because a lot of them even let you know what
Speaker 1: where their camps are at, what drainages they're in, you know,
Speaker 1: even on their websites and whatnot. So a lot of
Speaker 1: times they don't want you to necessarily be in their
Speaker 1: area anyway, so they will give you good advice on
Speaker 1: maybe what drainage to try, what the pressure is like
Speaker 1: in an area. They can, you know, they can give
Speaker 1: you some of that information without really hurting their clients
Speaker 1: hunts and whatnot. So I always like to call outfitters
Speaker 1: or guides that are in the area just to kind
Speaker 1: of see what they have. And sometimes they they'll give
Speaker 1: you information. Sometimes they're tight lipped and they won't and
Speaker 1: then I always take what they give me a little
Speaker 1: bit with the grain of salt, because you never know
Speaker 1: if they're trying to throw you off or send you
Speaker 1: into a dead zone, any of that. So call the
Speaker 1: outfitters in the area, figure out what's going on in
Speaker 1: that area as far as heavy outfitter traffic, and then
Speaker 1: I try to avoid that and hope that they give
Speaker 1: me a good answer so I can avoid them as well.
Speaker 1: I also like to call the owner of the property,
Speaker 1: whether it's for a service, whether it's a BLM, whether
Speaker 1: it's any of the following DNR and get their opinion
Speaker 1: on the area, how busy it is, what they see
Speaker 1: for rigs parked at gates or trailheads. What's my access
Speaker 1: in there going to be like, because a lot of
Speaker 1: times I can see roads and whatnot on on X
Speaker 1: maybe they don't have a gate in the right spot,
Speaker 1: or there's a lot of seasonal shutdowns where RMEF or
Speaker 1: a game department has partnered with the owner and they
Speaker 1: shut a gate on a certain date September First, this
Speaker 1: gate shut well on the map, it looks like I
Speaker 1: could have drove another five or six miles or whatnot.
Speaker 1: So I like to call the owner of the property,
Speaker 1: make sure that my access that I had planned on
Speaker 1: getting to is going to be there, and then you know,
Speaker 1: just just kind of run that by them. And then
Speaker 1: once again, I'm I'm not necessarily scared of any traffic,
Speaker 1: whether it's you know, driving for wheler, motorcycle, hiking, whatever
Speaker 1: it may be. But I don't want to just be
Speaker 1: in a very, very busy area. I'll take a moderate
Speaker 1: to light area, but I don't want to throw myself
Speaker 1: into an area that's just packed with people. So calling
Speaker 1: the owner is great for that. I always E scout
Speaker 1: and I'll do a lot of ES scouting, probably prior
Speaker 1: to calling the biologists and the owner. I spend a
Speaker 1: ton of time E scouting, and I will I'm looking
Speaker 1: for the three things that Elk are gonna need. I'm
Speaker 1: looking for cover, I'm looking for food, and I'm looking
Speaker 1: for water, you know, and Elk.
Speaker 2: Needs a drink.
Speaker 1: It's very I may be saying something that's very obvious
Speaker 1: for most people, but if you always tie everything back
Speaker 1: to that, it's it's gonna it's gonna work better. So
Speaker 1: you they can't they can't sustain, they can't be there
Speaker 1: without one of those three. So I'm always looking for
Speaker 1: where's their water source? So they're gonna be able to drop
Speaker 1: to a creek. Do they got a pond, Do they
Speaker 1: have wallows? Do they have benches?
Speaker 2: Like? Where are they gonna get their water from?
Speaker 1: They need to have some ability to escape hunters, predators, danger, heat,
Speaker 1: whatever it may be. In September, So I'm looking for
Speaker 1: bedding areas. You know, I'm looking for stuff on the
Speaker 1: north slope, I'm looking for shade. I'm looking for, you know,
Speaker 1: spots where they can escape, be safe, not be seen.
Speaker 1: And then I'm looking for a good food source. And
Speaker 1: that that really depends on on where you're hunting. You know,
Speaker 1: if you're in the high country of Colorado, all of
Speaker 1: their food may be green grasses and green and shrubs
Speaker 1: above tree line. If I'm hunting here in western Washington,
Speaker 1: I'm looking for green, lush clearcuts where those elk are
Speaker 1: gonna come feed and then they're gonna go back to
Speaker 1: timber where that that example I used in Colorado, those
Speaker 1: elk are going to go up above tree line and
Speaker 1: then they're going to feed back down into the timber
Speaker 1: or into their their bedding area and then uh, you know,
Speaker 1: like that that escapement. The betting areas, you're looking for
Speaker 1: big timber, you're looking for pockets. You know, ideally there's
Speaker 1: a spring or water at that spot. Benches, but what
Speaker 1: keep in mind that isn't always a telltale sign. I
Speaker 1: just prefer benches in an area because it it doesn't.
Speaker 2: Guarantee, but it gives me a higher percentage. I know
Speaker 2: where they're going to be betting.
Speaker 1: But we've seen elk bedded on fifty degree slopes and
Speaker 1: they're just fine. They you know, they've kicked out above
Speaker 1: a tree, they've got their betting there, So that that
Speaker 1: that will also know they can bedding near anywhere. But
Speaker 1: we're looking for for areas with with with all of
Speaker 1: those features. And then one thing that I really like
Speaker 1: to look for in a specific area is a good
Speaker 1: set of ridges that connect. I work pretty inefficient if
Speaker 1: I've got to drop off of a finger ridge across
Speaker 1: a canyon to get on another one. So I really
Speaker 1: like a high ridge line running through the area where
Speaker 1: I can cover a lot of ground, or if I've
Speaker 1: got a trail towards the top of that, so one
Speaker 1: or the other, either I can walk the ridge fairly
Speaker 1: easy without being cliffed out or cut off, or I
Speaker 1: can walk a ridge trail that keeps me pretty high
Speaker 1: in elevation. And I love to be able to call
Speaker 1: down into that canyon, be able to reach above me,
Speaker 1: and be able to cover that entire canyon with my
Speaker 1: location bagle. So I'm looking for that more canyon country
Speaker 1: where we can call across, we can glass across, which
Speaker 1: is very very important for my elk cutting successes. I
Speaker 1: want to also be able to glass, and that's where
Speaker 1: I'm drawn to some of that alpine subalpine stuff where
Speaker 1: we can get up, we can glass avalanche shoots above
Speaker 1: tree line and really kind of set up our hunt
Speaker 1: and I don't intend to get in to that, but
Speaker 1: that's something I'm looking in an area glassing, good calling, and
Speaker 1: then be able to cover a lot of ground. And
Speaker 1: with those three things it starts to stack the odds
Speaker 1: of success in my favor. And then now that we've
Speaker 1: got all this, we've we've picked an area, we've called
Speaker 1: the biologists, we've called the property owner, we've we've you know,
Speaker 1: did all of this. The last thing that I do,
Speaker 1: and it's a brief check. It's just trying to figure
Speaker 1: out who has hunted it before and what their take
Speaker 1: is and and in order to figure that out, I
Speaker 1: will go a cruise forums. A lot of times it
Speaker 1: will be, you know, jump on Google, you type in
Speaker 1: you know, unit X, y Z and elk in Colorado,
Speaker 1: and it will tell me, you know, a lot of
Speaker 1: times there are a forum or or something that I've
Speaker 1: talked about that, and I'll just go read like, what
Speaker 1: you know, we're people not seeing elk. And I always
Speaker 1: take that once again with the grain of salt, because
Speaker 1: I don't know how good the elk hunter is on
Speaker 1: the other side of the keyboard, you know, whoever type that,
Speaker 1: But it just gives me a general consensus or a
Speaker 1: lot of times you'll see a guy pop up or
Speaker 1: you know, a couple of people like, oh, you weren't
Speaker 1: in the wrong spot, or you did it wrong, or
Speaker 1: you didn't hunt the right spots, and it just starts
Speaker 1: to let me know, like, all right, it's obvious that
Speaker 1: maybe the densities are in different locations in this unit
Speaker 1: are vastly different. So it just starts to let me know, like,
Speaker 1: all right, I'm going to need to find spots. A
Speaker 1: lot of times people will talk about specific areas they
Speaker 1: went into and it was really really busy er lots
Speaker 1: and lots of rigs, or they take a picture of
Speaker 1: a of a trailhead and I start to use that
Speaker 1: data to really hone in is my idea good or
Speaker 1: do I need to go back to the drawing board
Speaker 1: kind of redo everything we just talked about. Pick a
Speaker 1: new area, pick a new you know, go back, call
Speaker 1: a billo, just called up the property owner and kind
Speaker 1: of go through that until the forums or social media.
Speaker 1: You know, you can chearch Facebook for the same thing.
Speaker 1: You know, units I go to YouTube see if anybody's
Speaker 1: hunted it on video to get an idea, and then
Speaker 1: if all this go, you know, I like to look
Speaker 1: at the best looking spots. But then the other thing
Speaker 1: in the back of my mind, which we've talked about,
Speaker 1: is the difficulty of getting there. If it's right off
Speaker 1: the road, it's probably gonna be busy. If it's one
Speaker 1: to two miles in, you're probably still gonna have fifty
Speaker 1: sixty percent of the guys in there. Once you start
Speaker 1: to get three to four miles off the road, I'm
Speaker 1: starting to be by myself. And then you kind of
Speaker 1: catch back up with the horse hunters. Around seven or eight,
Speaker 1: So I like to really plan my el hunts. Three
Speaker 1: to eight miles from anything seems to be kind of
Speaker 1: that sweet spot. It's it's still close enough to the truck.
Speaker 1: We can get it out and a couple, you know,
Speaker 1: a couple of packouts. But that's what I'm looking for.
Speaker 1: And so you'll do these iterations until you go back
Speaker 1: to the forum social media maybe. And I actually like
Speaker 1: when somebody doesn't talk about the area that I'm in
Speaker 1: or that I've picked with any unit, but if they
Speaker 1: are talking highly of an area, I try to see
Speaker 1: how many similarities are in between the area I picked
Speaker 1: and the one that they're talking highly about, Like, all right,
Speaker 1: do these trains is that going to make my spot?
Speaker 1: Does it have all the same things, the same facing,
Speaker 1: aspect slopes, whatever it may be, And kind of put
Speaker 1: that all together to see if it's going to work out.
Speaker 2: So we did all of this. We got a solid plan.
Speaker 1: I know some of us like it's very difficult to
Speaker 1: get out and scout all of these places, but nothing
Speaker 1: is going to replace your boots on the ground. So
Speaker 1: you've did all this. If you can, by any means
Speaker 1: get out there and go improof this prior to season,
Speaker 1: and when you're out there some of the things that
Speaker 1: I like to look for the best telltale sign because
Speaker 1: it depending on what time you get there. You go
Speaker 1: out in July, that gives a whole lot of time.
Speaker 1: That gives sixty, you know, anywhere from thirty to sixty
Speaker 1: days for those elk to change their pattern, and the
Speaker 1: greater distance between your scouting and your return, the greater
Speaker 1: the distance of those elk could be. I'm not saying
Speaker 1: it will be, but just remember if you were sixty
Speaker 1: to you know, I would be very nervous scouting in
Speaker 1: the in the first of July and coming back in September.
Speaker 1: Especially the more mountainous elk that are that are doing
Speaker 1: some migrating, the more nervous I would be going back.
Speaker 1: Those cows are gonna move, those bulls are gonna move,
Speaker 1: and so the closer you can get I would be
Speaker 1: much much more confident. Of course, it's this is going
Speaker 1: to be, you know, very obvious. I'd be much more
Speaker 1: confident in my scouting the last week of August for
Speaker 1: an archery l hunt than I would the first of July.
Speaker 1: Things are just gonna move, and so take that with
Speaker 1: a grain of salt, you know, or just take that
Speaker 1: with a consideration as you do that. When I'm out
Speaker 1: there scouting, uh anytime prior to season, one of the
Speaker 1: most important things I look for is rubs that lets
Speaker 1: me know in some way, shape or form that elk
Speaker 1: were there during the rut. And I'm looking for concentration
Speaker 1: in rubs, like how much time did they spend there,
Speaker 1: was this a lone bowl, you know, traveling through the mountains,
Speaker 1: or was this obviously an area a betting area, you know,
Speaker 1: And if you can put the rubs together with the
Speaker 1: betting area, you've kind of got the the problem solved
Speaker 1: at that point. You know where they're going to bed,
Speaker 1: you know, they've got a lot of rubs around that.
Speaker 1: Because when you're out there, a lot of people want
Speaker 1: to see elk. They want to see tracks, they want
Speaker 1: to see you know, scot they want to see all
Speaker 1: this stuff on the ground. But guess what, that's where
Speaker 1: the elk are at, right then if you can find
Speaker 1: rubs that kind of guarantees me they're there somewhere in
Speaker 1: September early October, and that's where they like to run.
Speaker 1: So that's my That's the number one thing I'm looking
Speaker 1: for out there. When I'm scouting, I don't really care
Speaker 1: if I see elk. I don't you know, it's always nice.
Speaker 1: I don't care if I see tracks any of that.
Speaker 1: Number one sign I'm looking for is rubs. And when
Speaker 1: I find that, I then start to look kind of
Speaker 1: scout around there, like from here, where are they getting
Speaker 1: their food? If they're going to bed here, they've got
Speaker 1: rubs here where they get in their food, where they
Speaker 1: get in their water. And you try to put that little,
Speaker 1: you know, mini puzzle together now that you've really because
Speaker 1: we've already dialed down from having a tag. We then
Speaker 1: selected unit. We then selected an area within the unit,
Speaker 1: and now we're down to like that macro of they
Speaker 1: they're they're betting they're eating their their feeding there, they're
Speaker 1: right here. Put that together is going to help you
Speaker 1: kind of figure those out. One thing to remember is
Speaker 1: if you are late mid mid August, late August, and
Speaker 1: you feel like those cows are kind of done moving
Speaker 1: as far as their location, remember whatever bulls you've seen,
Speaker 1: or if you haven't seen any bulls, the majority of
Speaker 1: the time those bulls will go join up with the cows,
Speaker 1: So don't necessarily concentrate on where you've seen the bulls
Speaker 1: eating up the season, contrant on where the cows are at,
Speaker 1: and start your hunt there. Or the other thing that
Speaker 1: could happen is they might not be in either location.
Speaker 1: They may go to a spot where they are left
Speaker 1: alone during that breeding season, and it may be different
Speaker 1: than both of those places. But I'd always focus on
Speaker 1: cows first and then branch out from there to to
Speaker 1: kind of finish finding where they're at. I'm going to
Speaker 1: cover a few pieces of gear, and I'm not the
Speaker 1: authority on getting in shape. I've always just said I'm
Speaker 1: I'm too hard headed to ever quit, and I've been
Speaker 1: doing this for twenty five years in the mountains and
Speaker 1: know what shape I need to be in. But if
Speaker 1: you're coming out west, or you're going to a new area,
Speaker 1: or you're coming from the lowlands, the first thing you
Speaker 1: need to do is get in shape for elk hunting.
Speaker 1: It's not even a meal deer hunt. There's a lot
Speaker 1: more added in. There's a lot more meat to carry out.
Speaker 1: You know, you can hunt meal deer just as far,
Speaker 1: if not further from the road than elk. But once
Speaker 1: you got one down, it's a whole different ballgame, especially
Speaker 1: if you're not hunting with a hunting partner or a group.
Speaker 1: I would venture to guess the majority of people are
Speaker 1: going to need to take at least four packouts, if
Speaker 1: not more, and that's going to be a pretty hefty load. So,
Speaker 1: you know, get in shape whatever means that that is.
Speaker 1: And this is where the scouting really pays off. Or
Speaker 1: a mountain near you just go test yourself. Can I
Speaker 1: do two thousand feet of elevation gain over four miles?
Speaker 1: Can I do two thousand foot elevation gain over two miles?
Speaker 2: You know? How long does it take?
Speaker 1: Me?
Speaker 2: Am? I? You know? And and just work at it,
Speaker 2: you know. And there's there's a.
Speaker 1: Lot of ways to do this and I'm I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna get into them. You know, you can be a
Speaker 1: long distance runner, your cardio is going to be great,
Speaker 1: you can do CrossFit, you can whatever it may be.
Speaker 1: Get your feet in shape, which we're going to talk
Speaker 1: about boots here in a little bit. I can't stress
Speaker 1: out enough we talk about shape as in muscular and
Speaker 1: cardio fitness. I've had I've seen I'd say i've had
Speaker 1: I've seen more people fall apart on a hunt because
Speaker 1: of their feet than I have because of you know,
Speaker 1: maybe their cardio or or their you know, physical physical condition.
Speaker 1: So get your feet in shape, you know, be able
Speaker 1: to pack eighty to ninety pounds over long distances or
Speaker 1: over short distances, and you really need to kind of
Speaker 1: gauge where you can kill an elk. It's easy to
Speaker 1: walk two or three miles through country when it's only
Speaker 1: you and your backpack. It's a lot different feet when
Speaker 1: you're doing it with eighty or ninety pounds on your back,
Speaker 1: and you know you've got to do it two, three,
Speaker 1: four more times, depending on how many people are helping
Speaker 1: you pack. So I'm going to diverge a little bit,
Speaker 1: but getting the absolute best shape possible it's gonna make
Speaker 1: the hunt more enjoyable.
Speaker 2: It's gonna let you hunt.
Speaker 1: Farther and harder, and then uh just be able to
Speaker 1: get the animal out from from that location. Talked about
Speaker 1: getting your feet in shape, getting into the right pair
Speaker 1: of boots, and having boots that are ready for western
Speaker 1: hunting or elk hunting. And I'm not talking about your
Speaker 1: your lowland you know, your elk hunts that are down
Speaker 1: around you know, private lowland BLM. Whatever I mean there's
Speaker 1: deep private out there, so don't don't necessarily take that
Speaker 1: out of cont you know, out of what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: But you know, there there are different boots aren't as
Speaker 1: near as important on a lowland hunter, front country hunt.
Speaker 1: You get up in the mountains, you know, and you're
Speaker 1: you're half mile mile.
Speaker 2: Off the road.
Speaker 1: Things get things can get pretty pretty brutal, and you're
Speaker 1: going you're gonna want to have boots that are that
Speaker 1: are kind of up to the task, one that fits
Speaker 1: your feet very well, one that are comfortable, one that
Speaker 1: you can walk six seven, eight, ten, twelve. You know, however,
Speaker 1: many miles in that don't necessarily give you hot spots.
Speaker 1: And so getting your boots broken prior to the hunt,
Speaker 1: knowing that they're the right boot for you to you know,
Speaker 1: climb straight up a mountain, the right boot to walk
Speaker 1: on a flat trail for you know, miles after you know,
Speaker 1: mile after mile.
Speaker 2: Make sure you got your boots dialed in.
Speaker 1: And because it is, you know much as it may
Speaker 1: just make sense, or maybe you just have tough feet
Speaker 1: and it doesn't matter. When your feet fall apart, your
Speaker 1: hunt kind of falls apart. So make sure you got
Speaker 1: the right boots on that are that are you know,
Speaker 1: that are right for the hunt. And then last thing
Speaker 1: is maybe different than other hunts, is have a pack
Speaker 1: that's able to carry a decent load out on the
Speaker 1: first trip. Once I said, we're we're we're kind of
Speaker 1: taxing ourselves. We're pushing ourselves a limit. And the last
Speaker 1: thing you want to do is is to kill an elk,
Speaker 1: break it down and not be able to take out
Speaker 1: a decent amount of weight or a quarter or whatever
Speaker 1: it may be on that first load. You want to
Speaker 1: be as efficient as possible. We're gonna be war out,
Speaker 1: we're gonna get tired, so make sure you have a
Speaker 1: pack that's able to haul heavy loads. Have a pack
Speaker 1: that you know you can you know, haul the heavy
Speaker 1: load plus all of your gear that's on you at
Speaker 1: the time, and it's gonna that's gonna be able to
Speaker 1: withstand and be durable enough to make trip after trip
Speaker 1: after trip. So that's kind of uh, you know, those
Speaker 1: those are just a few key items you know you
Speaker 1: when it comes to elk cunting.
Speaker 2: I think boots and.
Speaker 1: Packs are are very important needed to make sure that
Speaker 1: you've got those dialed. But yeah, this is kind of
Speaker 1: the wrap on on getting ready and planning for your
Speaker 1: ILK cunt. Make sure you're you're stacking the odds in
Speaker 1: your favor, You're you're in a good area, You've got
Speaker 1: the right equipment, you're in shape, and you're ready to
Speaker 1: go out and uh kind of tackle this area. And
Speaker 1: in part two we're going to kind of expand on this.
Speaker 1: Now that we've got an area, where are we going
Speaker 1: when we get there? I said, where were going? When
Speaker 1: we get there? How am I going to quickly break
Speaker 1: the area down? Proof what we've put together on what
Speaker 1: we've talked about. We make sure this area is gonna
Speaker 1: hold the elk they are there, how you're gonna hunt it,
Speaker 1: and then put together some put together some plans on
Speaker 1: how you're gonna attack the unit. So I really appreciate
Speaker 1: you guys listening. This was kind of my planning for
Speaker 1: an elk count episode. And catch us on part two
Speaker 1: of this episode on cutting the distance where I'm gonna
Speaker 1: break down once you get there, proofing all this and
Speaker 1: putting a plan together and then some strategy