Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sense Podcast. My
Speaker 1: guest today is a true legend, Herb Albert, who's been
Speaker 1: on a sold out tour.
Speaker 2: It's going to play the Hollywood Bowl this coming summer. Herb,
Speaker 2: what's the difference between being on the road today as
Speaker 2: opposed to in the sixties.
Speaker 3: You know, I think I'm having more fun, believe it
Speaker 3: or not. At ninety I never thought I'd be doing this.
Speaker 3: I just got into a new groove here. I mean,
Speaker 3: all of a sudden, I think my music is back
Speaker 3: in vogue.
Speaker 2: So being a nomagenarian, being ninety years old, what perspective
Speaker 2: have you gotten on life that younger people don't know?
Speaker 3: Oh? Man, what a question? What younger people don't know?
Speaker 3: How to relax, how to be honest, how to be
Speaker 3: true to yourself?
Speaker 2: Okay, and how's your health? You're ninety now, but how
Speaker 2: are your numbers? Etc?
Speaker 3: Or do you know something I don't? No, I don't lately, Bob,
Speaker 3: what is the deal here? No, I'm good. I'm feeling
Speaker 3: pretty darn good at this time of my life. Actually,
Speaker 3: I'm having more fun now than I did like thirty
Speaker 3: years ago. Playing the trumpet. You know, when COVID hit
Speaker 3: for some reason. I was down. We had to cancel
Speaker 3: you all are our concert tour. And I spent that
Speaker 3: time like reliving some of the teachers that I had
Speaker 3: through the years that taught me certain things that really
Speaker 3: didn't hang on all the way. So I started all
Speaker 3: of a sudden, I found out how to blow the trumpet,
Speaker 3: how to make this sound? Or what happened? How do
Speaker 3: you make that sound? I never thought about that. I
Speaker 3: started playing when I was eight years old, so the
Speaker 3: sound was just it was there, and it was talking
Speaker 3: for me because I you know, I'm a card carrying introvert,
Speaker 3: so at that age did that The horn was saying
Speaker 3: things I couldn't get out of my mouth. So I
Speaker 3: never thought about how do you play the darn thing?
Speaker 3: So I went through the whole history of the people
Speaker 3: that I spent time with, and I found out a
Speaker 3: lot of interesting tidbits that I didn't really think about.
Speaker 2: Can you tell us some of those tidbits?
Speaker 3: Oh? Absolutely nothing, Are you kidding me?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Sure. First off, you have to relax. For one,
Speaker 3: you definitely have to practice while you're while you're sleeping,
Speaker 3: somebody else is practicing. Who wants the same thing you do.
Speaker 3: There are images, you know, that I could give you
Speaker 3: that might not translate to you know, the average person listening.
Speaker 3: But to blow the trumpet, you need to You need air, obviously,
Speaker 3: and so where's that air come from. It comes from
Speaker 3: a deep place. It comes from your diaphragm. And the
Speaker 3: image that one of the teachers gave me was that
Speaker 3: if you're skiing behind a boat and you're going at
Speaker 3: a certain speed and the boat all of a sudden
Speaker 3: slows down, you're going to slow down into the water.
Speaker 3: So when you do that, you're slowing down into your lips.
Speaker 3: And if you keep the speed constant, the air constant,
Speaker 3: you know, you have a better chance of producing what
Speaker 3: you know, the sound you want to produce.
Speaker 2: So how'd you pick up the trumpet? At age eight?
Speaker 3: Luckily I was in a school that had a music
Speaker 3: appreciation class and they had a table filled with instruments.
Speaker 3: I could have picked up the tuba, the clarinet, of flute,
Speaker 3: didn't matter. Happened to pick up the trumpet and I
Speaker 3: couldn't make a sound out of it. I thought you
Speaker 3: just blow hot air into it, and that did didn't work.
Speaker 3: But when I finally started making a sound the talk.
Speaker 3: It was talking for me. It was saying things I
Speaker 3: couldn't get out of my mouth, and one thing led
Speaker 3: to another. I started having, you know, great luck playing
Speaker 3: because I was enjoying the process. And luckily enough, I
Speaker 3: had a teacher. I had several teachers, but one teacher
Speaker 3: in particular was an old. He was the first trumpet
Speaker 3: player with the San Francisco Symphony and he was Russian.
Speaker 3: Happened to have been run he happened to be Russian.
Speaker 3: And he told me one afternoon when I was playing
Speaker 3: an an atude that he asked me to learn. I
Speaker 3: played it for him and I looked over. I said
Speaker 3: how it was, and the guy was he was in tear.
Speaker 3: He had a tear rolling down his face. I said,
Speaker 3: what's happening? He said, you sound so beautiful. I said, well,
Speaker 3: thank you very much. And that was I think I
Speaker 3: was fourteen at the time, maybe twelve, thirteen, fourteen, maybe fifteen,
Speaker 3: and I thought, well, gee, maybe I do have something.
Speaker 3: I never thought of becoming a professional at that time.
Speaker 3: I was just you know, playing the horn. And when
Speaker 3: I got into high school, we had a little band,
Speaker 3: a little trio, and at that time there was this
Speaker 3: television show called High Talent Battle that was pitting the
Speaker 3: different high schools in the Los Angeles area, and we
Speaker 3: entered the show. It was the early stages of television,
Speaker 3: and we won about eight weeks in a row. So
Speaker 3: from that point on, we you know, started playing parties
Speaker 3: and little affairs, and I had a lot of fun
Speaker 3: playing the horn. I got some good feedback from people saying,
Speaker 3: I'm alect the way you play. So one thing led
Speaker 3: to another.
Speaker 2: Okay, you were in that band. Was that an instrumental
Speaker 2: band or was there a singer?
Speaker 3: No, it was just a little group. It was piano, drums,
Speaker 3: occasionally bass and trumpet.
Speaker 2: Okay, you started playing the trumpet at age eight. Did
Speaker 2: your parents push you into music before that, like piano
Speaker 2: lessons or anything like that.
Speaker 3: No. No, My dad was from Kiev, born in Kiev,
Speaker 3: little town outside of Kiev, actually, and he brought his
Speaker 3: mandolin with him and he played by ear. You know,
Speaker 3: he could play some interesting little ditties with not knowing
Speaker 3: what he was playing or what chord or what note
Speaker 3: he was on. But he had a great feeling, and
Speaker 3: you know, to take this whole thing forward with feeling.
Speaker 3: To me, I think all our forms and our music
Speaker 3: and all acting, poetry, whatever happens to be. I think
Speaker 3: it's all about a feel. It's that feel, and that
Speaker 3: feel is hard to describe. What is that thing? It
Speaker 3: could be magical to some people and doesn't mean anything
Speaker 3: to others. But it has to be the person who's
Speaker 3: putting it out there. You have to you have to
Speaker 3: live it, you have to be it. And this is
Speaker 3: what keeps me so enthused about making music. I just
Speaker 3: love to blow the horn and make find good songs.
Speaker 3: And it's about a song. I think it's about melodies.
Speaker 3: If you find a great melody and you can can
Speaker 3: couch it in something that's interesting to listen to. It's
Speaker 3: always fun for me to play it, and if it's
Speaker 3: fun for me to play it, I think it might
Speaker 3: be fun for someone else to listen to it.
Speaker 2: Where did your mother come from it? How did your
Speaker 2: parents meet?
Speaker 3: Well, my mother was born in the Lower East Side
Speaker 3: of New York. She played violin. They met in Chicago,
Speaker 3: and my father, God bless him, he was a hero.
Speaker 3: He came to this country when he was sixteen years old,
Speaker 3: not speaking a word of English, and he didn't speak
Speaker 3: Russian because in a little staddle outside of Kiev. He
Speaker 3: was speaking Yiddish. He communicated in Yiddish, and Albert was
Speaker 3: the name that was it wasn't it wasn't translated into
Speaker 3: another name at ls Island when he landed there. And
Speaker 3: he was a hard worker and he you know, he
Speaker 3: spent a lot of time, you know, learning a craft
Speaker 3: that he was a schneider. He was made ladies coats
Speaker 3: and suits, and little by little, you know, he brought
Speaker 3: his whole family back to the United States from Russia.
Speaker 2: So he landed in Elos Island. How did he end
Speaker 2: up in Chicago and how did they end up in
Speaker 2: Los Angeles?
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a bit of a mystery for me. I
Speaker 3: kind of left out. You know. There were times when
Speaker 3: I just said, man, I should have asked him so
Speaker 3: many different questions when when he was around, and I didn't.
Speaker 3: I didn't get the nitty in that and that particular question.
Speaker 3: I would have liked to know how he got there
Speaker 3: and who helped him along the way in that period.
Speaker 2: Do you have any brothers or sisters.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I have a sister and a brother. My sister
Speaker 3: played piano. My brother was a professional drummer, and we
Speaker 3: played occasionally you know, parties and a few other events.
Speaker 3: But he it wasn't in his bones. It wasn't something
Speaker 3: he had to do. I have to make music. This
Speaker 3: is my this is my calling, Bob.
Speaker 2: And how did they handle your incredible success?
Speaker 3: You know, my dad wasn't sure, you know, the Tijuana brass.
Speaker 3: He didn't know what the heck that was. But that means,
Speaker 3: who are you know? Uh? So he was a little
Speaker 3: He wasn't discouraging me. He wasn't encouraging. And he you know,
Speaker 3: he'd listened to the records and he he loved when
Speaker 3: I played If I were a rich man, That was
Speaker 3: the song got to his heart. My mom was more encouraging.
Speaker 3: She she was really there when the neighbors used to,
Speaker 3: you know, yell from across the street or wherever they were,
Speaker 3: shut up, don't play so loud, so she would yelled
Speaker 3: back at them. She was very encouraging. She was there
Speaker 3: every moment for.
Speaker 2: Me and your siblings. How did they deal with your success?
Speaker 3: Well, my brother when we bought A and M Studios,
Speaker 3: the Chaplain Studios, he was an integral part of that
Speaker 3: because we started with you know, this whole thing with
Speaker 3: A and M. My partner Jerry Moss, God bless them.
Speaker 3: It started in my garage in nineteen sixty two and
Speaker 3: it was just the two of us, and there were
Speaker 3: three and four and five, And then we moved to
Speaker 3: a little office on Sunset Boulevard and had some success
Speaker 3: with the Tijuana Brass Records enough to make an offer
Speaker 3: on this property that was being sold by CBS. And
Speaker 3: Jerry had big thoughts, you know, he thought we were
Speaker 3: going all the way and I was a little reluctant
Speaker 3: with that, but I loved him so much. He was
Speaker 3: a great guy. He was just he wasn't a musician,
Speaker 3: but he was musical, you know. He had a really
Speaker 3: good sense of songs, and obviously he was great dealing
Speaker 3: with people. And I learned a lot from him and
Speaker 3: we had a wonderful career on a handshake. I know
Speaker 3: this sounds a little corny, but we shook hands in
Speaker 3: nineteen sixty two when we put out The Lonely Bull,
Speaker 3: and then little by little we became super successful and
Speaker 3: sold the company in nineteen ninety and never had an
Speaker 3: agreement between us. We never signed an agreement. It was
Speaker 3: just on a handshake, and that gives me a chill bumps.
Speaker 3: Just to think about it. But that's what happened.
Speaker 2: How'd you meet Jerry.
Speaker 3: A friend of mine? I did a record Lou Adler
Speaker 3: with Lou Adler.
Speaker 2: Wait, let's stop there for a second. Yeah, how'd you
Speaker 2: meet Lou Adler?
Speaker 3: Okay, Lou Adler man. Okay, ex wives, we're talking now, Okay.
Speaker 3: I was in the army. I gradual, I waited in
Speaker 3: nineteen fifty five for the army, and I was married
Speaker 3: to a lady whose best friend was married to Lou Adler.
Speaker 3: At that time, Lou was in the clothing business. He was,
Speaker 3: you know, selling T shirts and jackets and suits. I
Speaker 3: don't know what he was doing exactly, but and we
Speaker 3: became friends. We had an instant liking for each other,
Speaker 3: and he knew I was a musician. And one point
Speaker 3: he showed me some poetry that he had written, and
Speaker 3: I said, I can put some music to that poetry.
Speaker 3: Let's see what happened. So I put poetry to about
Speaker 3: six of the songs, these songs, and then we made
Speaker 3: some demos. And I'm being a very quiet introvert. Luke
Speaker 3: kind of had to step forward for me because he
Speaker 3: was an introvert as well. But he knew he wasn't
Speaker 3: as serious as I was, but he had this knock
Speaker 3: on any door type of attitude which helped us a lot.
Speaker 3: So we took these songs around to various places publishing companies,
Speaker 3: and then we landed. We had this one place in
Speaker 3: Imperial Records with Don Sunset Bulliver. At the time, Sonny
Speaker 3: Bono was their an R chief and he listened to
Speaker 3: these records. I never met Sonny before. He listened to
Speaker 3: these records and looked at us and said, hey, yeah,
Speaker 3: I think you guys better get out of the bid
Speaker 3: before it's too late. So obviously we thanked him and
Speaker 3: moved on. And then Jerry Well, well, no, this was
Speaker 3: still And then little by little we uh landed a
Speaker 3: job at Keene Records and Sam Cook was the star
Speaker 3: artists there, and we were hired by Bumps Blackwell, who
Speaker 3: produced Sam's records, and Bumps liked us and liked some
Speaker 3: of the songs that we wrote. But our job for
Speaker 3: him was to listen to all the tapes of recordings
Speaker 3: that he makes with Sam and other artists and and
Speaker 3: and review the tapes and and you know, one by
Speaker 3: one you would say, he wants he want to know
Speaker 3: if you like the first verse or the second verse,
Speaker 3: the fourth verse, which verst was better if there's multi
Speaker 3: tape tracks of a particular song. So that's what Lou
Speaker 3: and I used to do for him, which was, you know,
Speaker 3: a great experience, you know, listening that closely to the songs.
Speaker 2: You said that you were making these things. How did
Speaker 2: you get associated with King Records, which was in Ohio.
Speaker 3: Lou knocked on the door and played this the songs
Speaker 3: that we had, and then Bumps liked him and he
Speaker 3: thought we would be in a nice audition to his rosters,
Speaker 3: so he'd creates some music for some of the artists
Speaker 3: that they had.
Speaker 2: So did you make records that came out on King Records?
Speaker 3: Oh? Yeah, sure we did. We wrote a Wonderful World
Speaker 3: with Sam. Don't know much about history. Oh yeah you
Speaker 3: wrote that? Yes?
Speaker 2: Wait wait wait stop that tell me how you wrote that?
Speaker 3: Well, we Lou and I wrote a song called all
Speaker 3: My Life, and there was Looks and there was a
Speaker 3: that was a song that Sam had recorded, and there
Speaker 3: was another song that Sam took a fancy to that
Speaker 3: he really liked, and we kind of he took that
Speaker 3: song and then we added whatever we had to add
Speaker 3: but the beauty of that song is, Man, this is
Speaker 3: an amazing story because that song was We finished that
Speaker 3: song and Sam wanted to just see if the song
Speaker 3: was worthy of putting it out, so he did a
Speaker 3: rough demo. He had a couple of amateur musicians with
Speaker 3: him that made this demo. I think one the drummer,
Speaker 3: I think might have been recording drummer or actual recording
Speaker 3: professional drummer. And it was put on the shelf at
Speaker 3: Keene Records. They know, they didn't release it. And so
Speaker 3: after Sam had this you know, really beautiful career at RCA,
Speaker 3: when he left Keene Records, the only thing they had
Speaker 3: Keene had was this one track of Sam singing Wonderful World.
Speaker 3: So they put that out just as maybe and it's
Speaker 3: the biggest record Sam had, which was crazy that it
Speaker 3: wasn't crazy, but it really gives you the aha that
Speaker 3: you know, nobody knows what a hit record sounds like
Speaker 3: until it really gets out there. So that record surprised everyone,
Speaker 3: including Sam.
Speaker 2: Can you take us into the room and how the
Speaker 2: song was written?
Speaker 3: Well, Lou Adler and I and Sam we just kind of,
Speaker 3: you know, threw ideas out and one thing led to another.
Speaker 3: You know, it just kind of developed.
Speaker 2: Now Herman's Hermit's ended up having a huge hit with
Speaker 2: it a few years later. Was that surprising to you?
Speaker 3: Oh sure, Yeah, the whole thing is surprising to me.
Speaker 2: Okay, you're working with lou Is Lou still in the
Speaker 2: schmata business or is he now in the music business?
Speaker 3: Lou No, Lo's a wonderful producer. He's produced some great records.
Speaker 3: And you know, we did the Jan and Dean records.
Speaker 3: I did the arrangements for Baha, you know, baby Talk,
Speaker 3: which was a young kid. And so after that, you know,
Speaker 3: I was still playing the trumpet and Plague got weekends
Speaker 3: with various groups. I got a little tired of that.
Speaker 3: I I really wanted to be an artist, and I
Speaker 3: really wanted to explore my own, uh way of making records.
Speaker 3: So Lou and I parted as friends, and lou happened
Speaker 3: to be one of my best friends. Now I took
Speaker 3: the the the record player and he took something else,
Speaker 3: and then we split on a handshake. Oh but before that,
Speaker 3: we did do the cover record, which was a big
Speaker 3: record in New York and on these coast of Elle
Speaker 3: oop elae oop oop oop oop by Dante and the Evergreens.
Speaker 3: And that was an eye opener for us because it
Speaker 3: sold around two hundred and forty thousand something, I mean,
Speaker 3: just an enormous amount of records in one area, but
Speaker 3: we never got paid for it. Somehow they were able
Speaker 3: to find that more money was spent making the record
Speaker 3: or doing something that they didn't know us any money.
Speaker 3: So I wanted to get out of that and move
Speaker 3: on to doing other things.
Speaker 2: While you were working with loub were you making your
Speaker 2: money solely from music or did you have a day job.
Speaker 3: No. I was making music. I was playing on weekends.
Speaker 3: I made a good living in high school, displaying parties, weddings,
Speaker 3: bar mitzvahs, whatever you had. You know, a triple scale
Speaker 3: on New Year's Night, Man, that was a big deal.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, so you break up with Luke, you get
Speaker 2: the record player. What's the next step after that? You
Speaker 2: want to be an artist?
Speaker 3: No, I wasn't that sure about that. I was writing
Speaker 3: songs and I did this one song called Gonna Get
Speaker 3: a Girl, and I thought it would be good for
Speaker 3: Gogie Grant, who just had a hit record called the
Speaker 3: Wayward Wind or something like that. So I called the
Speaker 3: people at RCA, and they recognized my name because the
Speaker 3: Yale Oops and the Baby Talk records. So I made
Speaker 3: an appointment there and I spoke with I forgot who
Speaker 3: Bob Yorke I think his name was, and I sat
Speaker 3: down on the piano and started singing this song and
Speaker 3: playing it and he said, I, how about recording it
Speaker 3: with you? I said, with me, I'm not a singer.
Speaker 3: He said yeah, but I like the way you sound. Anyways,
Speaker 3: I signed with ARCTA and Shorty Rogers was my ANR
Speaker 3: producer who was a great jazz musician and who I
Speaker 3: adored because I used to go listen to his group
Speaker 3: in that particular period. So they had a nice little
Speaker 3: introduction to one of my favorite musicians. I did a
Speaker 3: few records with RCA there for about a year and
Speaker 3: a half. I did this one record where I wanted
Speaker 3: to put the trumpet on this uh in the middle
Speaker 3: of the song. I thought it would be a good idea,
Speaker 3: and that they said it's against the union rules or
Speaker 3: something like that. Anyway, I was listening to a playback
Speaker 3: of the song and I wanted also to hear more bass.
Speaker 3: I wanted to hit, have it hit a little bit harder,
Speaker 3: So I go over to the board and I lift
Speaker 3: up the bass track and the guy slaps my hand.
Speaker 3: It was a Union guy had a button on, you know,
Speaker 3: with Union numbers. He said, don't ever touch that board again.
Speaker 3: And I looked at him, thinking like, wow, isn't that interesting.
Speaker 3: He shouldn't a record company be revolving around an artist.
Speaker 3: You know, I didn't like that I was being treated.
Speaker 3: You know, they ever treated me like a number. I
Speaker 3: didn't even have a name there at the recording session.
Speaker 3: It was, you know, three eight seven five five five
Speaker 3: four three two take one. So I filed all this
Speaker 3: and I didn't have dreams of starting my own record company.
Speaker 3: But I just remember thinking, if I did ever have
Speaker 3: had a chance to have my own company, I certainly
Speaker 3: treat artists in a different way. And the rest his history.
Speaker 2: Okay, you're making these records for RCA. Do you have
Speaker 2: a contract. What happens next? Do you record by yourself
Speaker 2: or do you meet Jerry? Do you have to get
Speaker 2: out of your deal with RCA? What are the mechanics there?
Speaker 3: No? I left RCA and I met Jerry around nineteen
Speaker 3: sixty one. I think Jerry was in coming from New
Speaker 3: York in his little Volkswagen Bug and we met. I
Speaker 3: was introduced to him by a friend, a New York friend,
Speaker 3: Ted Fagan, who was working for Madison Records at the time,
Speaker 3: who had also worked for Liberty Records, and met Jerry
Speaker 3: and took a liking to him. He's just he's just
Speaker 3: a regular guy, and he had a wonderful person not
Speaker 3: only personality, but he had a wonderful resume of promoting
Speaker 3: certain records. I can't think of the name right now.
Speaker 3: It was on scepter. You'd probably remember that one, not.
Speaker 2: Off the top of my head, but yeah, okay.
Speaker 3: So anyways, Jerry had an actor friend who wanted to record,
Speaker 3: and I had a song I wanted to record it
Speaker 3: called tell It to the Birds, and I said I'd
Speaker 3: help him record his actor friend, Charlie Robinson actually was
Speaker 3: his name. It just came to my mind. I can't
Speaker 3: believe I remember the name. So we did that recording,
Speaker 3: and this Tell It to the Birds record that I
Speaker 3: did made some noise. We released it under the label
Speaker 3: of Carnival Records, and it's sold in Los Angeles and
Speaker 3: San Francisco, not a lot, but enough to some companies
Speaker 3: were interested in distributing it bigger companies, so we sold
Speaker 3: the rights to Dot Records. Wink Martindale was the an
Speaker 3: R producer at the company at the time, and with
Speaker 3: that money, I think they gave us six hundred dollars,
Speaker 3: we recorded the Lonely Bull.
Speaker 2: Okay, a little bit slower. How'd you write the Lonely Bull?
Speaker 2: And where did you record it?
Speaker 3: Well? I didn't write it. I wrote a couple passages
Speaker 3: of it. Didn't take credit for it, but that's all right.
Speaker 3: The song was already there. The song was great with
Speaker 3: or without what I did. It was written by Saul Lake.
Speaker 3: He was a fellow that I now and then would
Speaker 3: play some casual parties with. He played piano. It wasn't
Speaker 3: a great piano player, but he wrote some really interesting songs.
Speaker 3: He had a field for melody, and he presented this
Speaker 3: song to me. It was like in a very high
Speaker 3: pitched like a music box. It was in that type
Speaker 3: of production that he gave it. And when I heard
Speaker 3: that melody, it just said that melody might translate to
Speaker 3: this idea I had about trying to do something that
Speaker 3: would satisfy my experiences that I had at the bullfight
Speaker 3: in Tijuana. Because I never listened to mariachi music. But
Speaker 3: there was a band in the stands at the Tijuana
Speaker 3: Arena Krita I think they call it, and they were
Speaker 3: playing the like the introduction of the different events that
Speaker 3: happened in a bullfighter. The bull come I mean, the
Speaker 3: bull comes out, and they do that one and they
Speaker 3: do another fanfare for them, Manador has come in, the
Speaker 3: horses come in, you know. So I got intrigued with that.
Speaker 3: I tried to put that feeling down on this song
Speaker 3: that I eventually, you know, fell in love with that.
Speaker 3: My partner Jerry called the low label.
Speaker 2: How did he come up with a name?
Speaker 3: How did he come up with the name God? I
Speaker 3: don't think I ever asked him that.
Speaker 2: Okay, and where did you record the song?
Speaker 3: It was recorded at Conway Recorders on Sunset Boulevarn.
Speaker 2: Okay, At what point in this story do you decide
Speaker 2: to be partners? Have you already decided or when the
Speaker 2: record is recorded?
Speaker 3: Well, the record was recorded. We were just releasing a record.
Speaker 3: We didn't didn't think about a company or we released
Speaker 3: it under the label originally Carnival Records, and then we
Speaker 3: found out there was prior usage of that name, so
Speaker 3: we came up with several different choices. A and M
Speaker 3: was like our third choice, and that was the only
Speaker 3: choice that went through to clear through the copyright. So
Speaker 3: we went with A and M to release The Lonely Bull.
Speaker 3: And then we were getting calls. Jerry, quickly, you got
Speaker 3: a bunch of distributors around the world. People were calling
Speaker 3: us when the minute that record came out. We were
Speaker 3: getting calls from Australia and Germany and everybody wanted that record.
Speaker 3: So he put that all together and put together the
Speaker 3: people that were distributing the record here in the United States. Yeah. No,
Speaker 3: so we were not thinking about it recording keeping a
Speaker 3: record company going. But since a lot of the vivers
Speaker 3: called us and said, man, why don't you guys just
Speaker 3: take the money and run. You got lucky man. You
Speaker 3: guys live near Tijuana, you live close by, and it's
Speaker 3: just one of those you know, an instrumental record doesn't last.
Speaker 3: So I was intrigued with that whole thing. And so,
Speaker 3: but they did want a Lonely Bull album, which we
Speaker 3: gave to him. And in that album, I did a
Speaker 3: bunch of different types of songs. I wasn't trying to
Speaker 3: do the Lonely bull sideways, which was probably the typical
Speaker 3: thing to try to do. I just try to When
Speaker 3: I heard that sound, the double trumpet sound that I
Speaker 3: came up with, I said, that feels good. I like
Speaker 3: that feeling. So I started, you know, fooling around with
Speaker 3: ways to incorporate that into other melodies.
Speaker 2: So that album comes out and it's successful. So at
Speaker 2: what point do you say, wait, we have a business here.
Speaker 3: Oh that's true. We had a period of it was
Speaker 3: just a tioue of brass. We didn't have any other artists,
Speaker 3: and we signed another one vocal group that didn't do much,
Speaker 3: and I wasn't sure quite frankly, Bob, I wasn't sure
Speaker 3: I wanted to have a record company. I just wanted
Speaker 3: to play. I just wanted to, you know, be freer er.
Speaker 3: And it wasn't until nineteen sixty four we signed Waylon
Speaker 3: Jennings who lived in Phoenix, and when I heard his voice,
Speaker 3: there was something about his voice that I really liked
Speaker 3: a lot. He seemed like it had like that type
Speaker 3: of voice could sing anything and it would be a
Speaker 3: soulful sound. So I went to Phoenix often recording him
Speaker 3: and I did this one recording called four Strong wins
Speaker 3: that was written, that was played. I think there was
Speaker 3: a record by Bobby Bear. Anyways, it became kind of successful,
Speaker 3: and chet Atkins happened to hear it. He was the
Speaker 3: head honcho at RCA in Nashville, and he was like
Speaker 3: the messiah for country artists, and he made some overtures
Speaker 3: to Whalan that if he ever gets out of the
Speaker 3: A and M situation, he'd liked to talk to him,
Speaker 3: which she shouldn't have done, but he did. Whalan told
Speaker 3: me about that, and I was really aware of Chet
Speaker 3: and his abilities, and he's wonderful musician on his own right.
Speaker 3: And I wanted to take Whalen just a little bit
Speaker 3: more pop and Whalan really wanted to be a country artist.
Speaker 3: That was his dream. So he told us about his
Speaker 3: conversation with the chet Atkins and Jerry and I thought, well,
Speaker 3: in his best interest, check this out, man, this is
Speaker 3: a true story. In Whalan's best interest, we should let
Speaker 3: him out of the contract so he can go with Chet.
Speaker 3: And I was thinking, like man, Jerry said that, and
Speaker 3: I felt that as well, so we decided to let
Speaker 3: Whalen out of the contract. I remember distinctly the day
Speaker 3: we signed his release Jerry signed his release. I looked
Speaker 3: at him and said, man, this guy's going to be
Speaker 3: a big artist, and Jerry said, I know it. And
Speaker 3: I thought, man, if we could be that honest with
Speaker 3: our artists and treat him that way, we're going to
Speaker 3: be a success. And that was the time that it
Speaker 3: turned the corner for me, saying, man, I got to
Speaker 3: stick with this guy. This is going to be worth
Speaker 3: the ride. He's an honorable guy, he's honest, he's smart,
Speaker 3: and he can he can do things that I'm not
Speaker 3: capable of doing. So that's when I really decided I
Speaker 3: wanted to, you know, keep the ball rolling. And then
Speaker 3: the next major thing that happened with me and Jerry
Speaker 3: was when the Tierjuanner Brass started. Well, I guess it
Speaker 3: was a taste of honey that really broke through. And
Speaker 3: Guild Friesan, who was one of our key executives, he
Speaker 3: kept saying, man, you got to get a group together.
Speaker 3: You got to get a group together. I said, man,
Speaker 3: I don't want to get a group. He says, you gotta.
Speaker 3: That's how we can sell more records. It's more exposed,
Speaker 3: get exposed better. I finally caved and got a group together,
Speaker 3: and I was thinking to myself, well, man, this is
Speaker 3: an opportunity to make some money on the side. I'll
Speaker 3: do these concerts and I'll make some money and it
Speaker 3: might be great. And Jerry at that point kind of
Speaker 3: got wind of, you know, what I was thinking about.
Speaker 3: He said, I'd like to have lunch with you and
Speaker 3: talk about something. I said, absolutely. So at lunch, Sherry said,
Speaker 3: look at if we're going to be partners, and we,
Speaker 3: like I said, we never signed an agreement. If we're
Speaker 3: going to be partners, I want to be fifty to
Speaker 3: fifty with you. What you do and what I do
Speaker 3: will just share. And I was thinking, man, this is
Speaker 3: this was my thought process at the lunch. I was thinking, oh,
Speaker 3: gee wiz, I get this opportunity to make some extra
Speaker 3: money without him, and he wants to have half of
Speaker 3: this thing. And then something inside me said, man, don't
Speaker 3: blow this. This is a good guy. Stick with him.
Speaker 3: I shook, I put up my hand and I said,
Speaker 3: you got it, man, we are partners. And that was it.
Speaker 3: That's when I decided, full blast. It's let's see how
Speaker 3: far we can take this good fortune that we've had.
Speaker 2: So you ultimately had this unbelievable run. But who do
Speaker 2: you then sign? What are your next successes? You're outside
Speaker 2: of your own work at A and M.
Speaker 3: Well, it took a while, you know, several years before
Speaker 3: the Tijuana Brass was feeding A in Americas. In fact
Speaker 3: that it fed the Chacolin studios. That's how we able
Speaker 3: to purchase that. Actually, Sergio Mendez in Brazil sixty six
Speaker 3: was a big one, and then we had the man
Speaker 3: Man I can't think of their name. You were on
Speaker 3: my mind that we fove the We five we signed that,
Speaker 3: We picked up a master that was the big record
Speaker 3: number one, and then Sergio and Brazil sixty six, which
Speaker 3: we got from our distributor in Seattle who said he
Speaker 3: heard this group he thought he we might like him,
Speaker 3: so we auditioned them in nineteen sixty six and fell
Speaker 3: in love with the sound and fell in love obviously
Speaker 3: with the lead singer. But it was very fortuitous that
Speaker 3: we heard them, and know SiO was just kind of
Speaker 3: at wits end because he got the group together after
Speaker 3: he had a group called Brazil sixty five and he
Speaker 3: was just about ready to go back to Brazil and
Speaker 3: pack it in until he said he wanted to just
Speaker 3: try one more time with the American singer lead singer
Speaker 3: and what you did? And heard Lonnie at a at
Speaker 3: a jazz club in Chicago signed her. So I produced
Speaker 3: the first couple albums with Sergio. And Sergio was a
Speaker 3: brilliant musician. I mean, and once I heard him him
Speaker 3: play and the man really got to know him, I
Speaker 3: just realized, Man, he was special. He just he was
Speaker 3: a true, honest musician. But I did help him on
Speaker 3: on Mashki No. I must confess that I heard him
Speaker 3: play that thing and I like that song, but man,
Speaker 3: he was playing it so fast. It was I said, who,
Speaker 3: who are you playing this thing for? Hummingbirds? Man, it's
Speaker 3: just too fast. Let's slow this baby down just a
Speaker 3: little bit, get it to feel a little bit more
Speaker 3: comfortable and so you can shake your head with it.
Speaker 3: And anyways, that was my contribution to that record. That
Speaker 3: was the one that really got them off the ground.
Speaker 2: So but then you make deals A and M with
Speaker 2: Denny Cordell and Chris Blackwell and they bring in these
Speaker 2: English acts that are very successful. How does that happen?
Speaker 3: Well, Jerry made contact. He said, we have to have
Speaker 3: an office in London, and so one thing led to another,
Speaker 3: and then Chris Blackwell was he just had wonderful taste.
Speaker 3: He just brought in some wonderful acts. And I mean
Speaker 3: one of my favorite acts that we signed because of
Speaker 3: Chris was Cat Stevens. Cat Stevens and a guitar in
Speaker 3: his heyday man was absolutely stunning. He was sensational. He
Speaker 3: wrote some beautiful songs in his heart and soul was
Speaker 3: on every stroke. He was one of my favorite artists
Speaker 3: that we signed.
Speaker 2: So start in a garage, you make enough money to
Speaker 2: buy the Chaplain Lot. Then all of a sudden, you
Speaker 2: know catch These records are gigantic, and there's obviously A
Speaker 2: and M as independent distribution, and you always have to
Speaker 2: kind of collect the money. But what do you think
Speaker 2: when you had all this incredible success?
Speaker 3: You know, it's an interesting question because I had a
Speaker 3: lot more fun with the company. Was just the two
Speaker 3: of us, and there were three and five and ten
Speaker 3: and twelve and fourteen. All of a sudden we had
Speaker 3: a company that was it seems like there was no
Speaker 3: end in sight. We were rolling. We were I don't know,
Speaker 3: I'm not an attention freak. I don't need the attention.
Speaker 3: So I being an artist and then being the A
Speaker 3: of A and M was a little daunting for me.
Speaker 3: And in the early I knew everybody that was involved.
Speaker 3: And then all of a sudden I got into this
Speaker 3: area where all sorts of people were part of the
Speaker 3: company doing wonderful things with the company and for the company.
Speaker 3: But it was a little more than I could feel
Speaker 3: comfortable with at times.
Speaker 2: So once you're on the Choplin lot in late sixties,
Speaker 2: early seventies, this area of a lot of success. Jerry
Speaker 2: is the business guy. Are you going to the office
Speaker 2: every day or are you leaving business to him? How's
Speaker 2: the split of obligations go?
Speaker 3: Yeah? I was going to the office every day. In fact,
Speaker 3: I was involved in creating the A and M recording studios.
Speaker 3: I would attend the meeting. All of a sudden, we
Speaker 3: would have weekly, you know, Thursday meetings with lawyers and
Speaker 3: accountants and all sorts of people. It was a little
Speaker 3: hard for me to do that because I was not
Speaker 3: only not always interested in the nitty gritty of something,
Speaker 3: I want to know the big picture. I was good
Speaker 3: with the big picture. Jerry and I always shared everything
Speaker 3: they had to do with the big picture, but the
Speaker 3: little strokes was not to my liking, and Jerry understood
Speaker 3: that he was for those who never met him, he
Speaker 3: was a gentleman. He was an outstanding person. He understood people.
Speaker 3: He was gracious and humble and honest to the core.
Speaker 2: So in this period from seventy to ninety, how often
Speaker 2: do you talk to Jerry? Every day, once a week,
Speaker 2: just when there's business. How much contact do you have
Speaker 2: with Jerry?
Speaker 3: Oh? All the time. Our offices were back to back.
Speaker 3: It was separated by our bathroom, and so I would
Speaker 3: always go into the bathroom and start blowing the horns,
Speaker 3: stay in shape on the trumpet, and I'd peep my
Speaker 3: head in his office and see what's happening. And no,
Speaker 3: I was right there. It was the two of us,
Speaker 3: for sure. We didn't, you know, when I signed the
Speaker 3: Carpenters in nineteen seventy, I peeped into Jerry's office. I'm
Speaker 3: about to sign this new group called the Carpenters. He says, oh, great,
Speaker 3: what are they like? You know, he didn't, He just said,
Speaker 3: you know, let's sign. It wasn't we didn't have a
Speaker 3: you know, to have ten people start voting whether they
Speaker 3: liked the Carpenters or not. And the Carpenters were. The
Speaker 3: music they were making was not the type of music
Speaker 3: I normally listened to. But there was something about her voice, obviously,
Speaker 3: and that it was honest. It was it was the
Speaker 3: music that they made. There was the music that came
Speaker 3: through them.
Speaker 2: Okay, you signed the When Jerry or somebody else would
Speaker 2: want to sign a band, would they ask your opinion
Speaker 2: or would they just do it?
Speaker 3: Oh? Occasionally they would ask I me. It depends on
Speaker 3: the circumstance. Now we were, we had free reign. It
Speaker 3: was it was. It was not highly it was not
Speaker 3: as organized it as it might seem. Now it's just
Speaker 3: Jerry and I making decisions.
Speaker 2: So how did you discover the Carpenters.
Speaker 3: Somebody slipped a tape to me and I used to,
Speaker 3: uh listen to most of the things that that came in,
Speaker 3: and I used the Sam Cook taught me to listen
Speaker 3: with your heart. Man, just don't close your eyes and
Speaker 3: if somebody is a great dancer, or they're extremely good
Speaker 3: looking and all that, forget that. Close your eyes and
Speaker 3: see if you're touched by what you hear. And I
Speaker 3: started adapting that type of feeling when I auditioned artists.
Speaker 3: So when I heard the carpenters. I mean that voice
Speaker 3: of hers got me. It got me that the arrangements
Speaker 3: were really interesting. And then I had a meeting with
Speaker 3: both of them and I saw that was really real.
Speaker 3: They were honest. I mean, she was a doll not
Speaker 3: knowing she was really a good singer. She was a drummer,
Speaker 3: and then one heck of a drummer too, So I
Speaker 3: just felt they there could be an audience for them.
Speaker 2: Okay, when you found them, had the tape gotten to
Speaker 2: anybody else? And were they playing out? What was the
Speaker 2: status of the group at that point?
Speaker 3: They were auditioned by as far as I remember, all
Speaker 3: the major companies in Los Angeles turned them down.
Speaker 2: So once you what was the next step.
Speaker 3: The next step was to find the right song for them.
Speaker 3: And I had a song in my drawer that I've
Speaker 3: recorded that I thought was going to be the follow
Speaker 3: up to this Guy's In Love with You. I recorded
Speaker 3: it and I thought it was pretty good. It was
Speaker 3: a little different take on the song, and I played
Speaker 3: it for well. The engineer was a dear friend, Larry Levine.
Speaker 3: Listening to the playback, I said, Larry, tell me, honestly,
Speaker 3: what do you think about this song, and he said,
Speaker 3: I don't think it suits you. I don't think it's right. Anyways,
Speaker 3: I lost my confidence. I put the song in the drawer,
Speaker 3: and in nineteen seventy I gave it to Richard Carpenter.
Speaker 3: It was close to You. That was the breaking song,
Speaker 3: the song that opened the door for them. And before that,
Speaker 3: you know, my own records company was wondering, well, why
Speaker 3: just signed these guys. I mean, that was the kind
Speaker 3: of the rumor I was hearing. They thought a little
Speaker 3: too cute, little sweet, it's not the type of music
Speaker 3: that's happening on the radio now. So all of a
Speaker 3: sudden I became, hey, good going for signing the Carpenters.
Speaker 2: How did you write close to You? All right?
Speaker 3: Didn't that's a Burt backrack song?
Speaker 2: Oh right, right, right right? You recorded?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah that Bert h and Hal
Speaker 3: David Right right.
Speaker 2: I forgot that. So how involved were you with the Carpenters.
Speaker 2: Is their career ensued?
Speaker 3: Well, i'd be, uh, you know, listening to what they're doing.
Speaker 3: And uh, you know, when Karen was having this awful problem,
Speaker 3: and then she got back into shape somewhat for a time,
Speaker 3: she did this other recording and uh, well, that's another story.
Speaker 3: I mean, Phil Ramone did an album with her that
Speaker 3: I wasn't crazy about. I didn't want to release it
Speaker 3: on a M. I didn't think it represented Karen as
Speaker 3: it should have my thoughts. That's another program though, bomb.
Speaker 2: Okay, So are there any other acts in the A
Speaker 2: n M tenure that you personally selected inside?
Speaker 3: Oh? Yeah, I did a couple of records with no
Speaker 3: Do Do Do Do Do Do Do Do Do Do
Speaker 3: Do Do Do? Chris Montez right, call me, I did
Speaker 3: that record Call me. I just had a knife the
Speaker 3: idea for that record with his weird voice. It was
Speaker 3: a nice voice, but it was like different, you know.
Speaker 3: I put a jazz piano player with him, Pete Jolly,
Speaker 3: and that record did really well.
Speaker 2: Huge. Yeah, he's almost lost to the seands of time,
Speaker 2: but that was a great record. Where did you find
Speaker 2: Chris Montets.
Speaker 3: He came to us and I, you know, I heard
Speaker 3: him and I remember the record that he had on
Speaker 3: another label, and although his voice was I don't know,
Speaker 3: a little odd, but I liked it. There's something about
Speaker 3: there's something in the way he moved. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2: So then Loom has his label owed, and he makes
Speaker 2: two records with Carol King for you. The first one
Speaker 2: Writer doesn't do much of anything, and then the second one, Tapestry,
Speaker 2: becomes the biggest record of all time.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, Lou's a really, really good producer. He understands
Speaker 3: a good song and he lets the artists do their
Speaker 3: thing until he feels he can jump in and add
Speaker 3: something special. And he did that album with a concept
Speaker 3: and the concept but let's make an album that Carol's
Speaker 3: sounding is sounding like. It's demo demo versions of these songs,
Speaker 3: very understated, very you know, nice grooves. It was done
Speaker 3: at A and M and Studio B, and it was great. Okay.
Speaker 2: Now, in this two decade run of the seventies to
Speaker 2: the eighties to the sale of the company, do you
Speaker 2: ever feel disconnected from the company?
Speaker 3: Oh? Absolutely yeah. I mean, you know, at some point
Speaker 3: we had five hundred people around the world. So yeah,
Speaker 3: it was a lot different than Jerry and I in
Speaker 3: my my garage in West Hollywood.
Speaker 2: So in that era, were you happy?
Speaker 3: How do you define happiness?
Speaker 2: Well, let's go back a step. You said twice that
Speaker 2: you're introverted. Yeah, so how did you decide you were
Speaker 2: introverted and what did that look like?
Speaker 3: I was shy. I wasn't very confident, you know, especially
Speaker 3: when you know, dealing with lawyers. Always felt, man, they
Speaker 3: much smarter than me. They must know better, they must
Speaker 3: know you know a lot more stuff than I do.
Speaker 3: I was just a shy kid, you know. I had
Speaker 3: this extreme experience of all of a sudden producing a
Speaker 3: record and I was a hit, and I was walking
Speaker 3: on Hollywood Boulevard and all of a sudden somebody wanted
Speaker 3: my autographs. You know. I mean that I was playing
Speaker 3: bar Mitzvah the weekend before. So yeah, that was a
Speaker 3: little bit of a transition that I had to get
Speaker 3: used to.
Speaker 2: Well, how about let's just assume. I mean, you're an
Speaker 2: elder statesman now, but in your younger days, if I
Speaker 2: called you and said, hey, Herb, we're having a party.
Speaker 2: We're having to get together, You're going to say it's great,
Speaker 2: I'll be there at eight o'clock. You're going to say,
Speaker 2: not for me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, not for me is definitely it. Yeah. Now, I'm
Speaker 3: not crazy about Yeah. I'm really okay with one on
Speaker 3: one or one on two, but man, when it gets
Speaker 3: the more people, it's I don't know, I don't feel
Speaker 3: that comfortable, and I'm pretty good on stage, you know,
Speaker 3: I feel comfortable on stage. I can. I can, in fact,
Speaker 3: play for as many people as you want and I'll
Speaker 3: be okay.
Speaker 2: Why do you think that is that you're good on
Speaker 2: stage to thousands of people, but you're most comfortable one
Speaker 2: on one.
Speaker 3: Yeah, an interesting phenomenon. I don't know. I don't have
Speaker 3: to deal with anyone that's in the audience. I can
Speaker 3: control my destiny.
Speaker 2: Okay. What kind of artists are you? Some artists are
Speaker 2: control freaks. Everything has to be exactly right. Other artists
Speaker 2: come in and just do their part and move on
Speaker 2: others and let people split things slide. What kind of
Speaker 2: artists are you when you're recording or playing live?
Speaker 3: Oh, I'm very spontaneous, very very very spontaneous when I play.
Speaker 3: I'm not a mainline jazz musician, but man' that's where
Speaker 3: I'm coming from. I'm coming from the jazz world. And
Speaker 3: whatever I play with the steer Waner brass that people
Speaker 3: tried to copy, they couldn't do it, you know, because
Speaker 3: I was doing it out of the out of my soul.
Speaker 3: You know that this is the music that just comes
Speaker 3: out of me, and I just let it fly. I
Speaker 3: just let it be whatever it is when I'm recording,
Speaker 3: even though I'm totally aware of the songs I'm playing.
Speaker 3: If I played it ten times, it sound different each time,
Speaker 3: but the melody would still be there.
Speaker 2: Okay, let's go back. Were you a good student? How
Speaker 2: good a student were you?
Speaker 3: Well? Just I was a fair student, not great. I didn't.
Speaker 3: I can't remember one teacher that really inspired me, to
Speaker 3: tell you the truth, And that's why I'm involved in
Speaker 3: the foundation and kind of gravitating towards helping helping students
Speaker 3: get to their place where they can be well. I
Speaker 3: always feel that people should teachers should learn at an
Speaker 3: early age. I think kids should learn be taught how
Speaker 3: to think, not what to think, how to think, and
Speaker 3: I think we're missing that. We're missing that.
Speaker 2: And how do you achieve that?
Speaker 3: Wow? Great question. Parenting, I guess is a good part
Speaker 3: of it. But just the idea that everybody man I believe. Yeah,
Speaker 3: that's not a big deal. I'm what I'm going to say.
Speaker 3: But everyone has the same ticket to this game called life,
Speaker 3: and we all should have the same type of opportunities.
Speaker 3: And we know a lot of people don't have those opportunities,
Speaker 3: and it's not it's for us to try and find
Speaker 3: a way to help them to get to that place.
Speaker 2: Let's go back once again. What kind of kid were
Speaker 2: you growing up? Did you play sports? Did you have
Speaker 2: a lot of friends. Were you the type of person
Speaker 2: who was in your bedroom listening to records? What were
Speaker 2: you like?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was kind of a vote getter. I play
Speaker 3: all the sports, basketball, football, baseball, and I still like sports,
Speaker 3: and I had a lot of friends. I was in
Speaker 3: in high school. Well, I was a president. I was
Speaker 3: a president of all my class.
Speaker 2: Most Well, that's kind of funny for an introvert.
Speaker 3: Well, I know, so you're trying to trap me here.
Speaker 2: No I'm not, because I think you know a lot
Speaker 2: of artists are introverts, and the fans don't understand. You
Speaker 2: know what you exactly said. You could do it on
Speaker 2: stage to ten thousand people, but if there were three people,
Speaker 2: there are four people, you'd have anxiety. Yeah, exactly. And
Speaker 2: if you're a president of the class, there must be
Speaker 2: a listen. You've told your story. Despite being an introvert,
Speaker 2: there was a constant drive in the ambition. You may
Speaker 2: have felt insecure, but you were constantly knocking on doors
Speaker 2: seeking opportunities. So you finish high school, how do you
Speaker 2: end up.
Speaker 3: In the army. I was drafted. There wasn't a choice.
Speaker 3: I didn't have a choice on that one.
Speaker 2: And this was during Korea.
Speaker 3: No, it was after Korea, but the draft was still
Speaker 3: on and I was sent to ford Ord. Actually I
Speaker 3: brought my trumpet with me. Ford Or is the thing,
Speaker 3: and I told them, I said, the only thing I
Speaker 3: know how to do is play this trumpet. I'm not
Speaker 3: an infantry man want to I don't want to do
Speaker 3: anything else. Anyways, I kind of led my way into
Speaker 3: I played with Basie, I played with Harry James. Anyways,
Speaker 3: they sent me, they classified me as a trumpet player.
Speaker 3: That was my m or whatever they call it. And
Speaker 3: they sent me to band school in Fort Knox, Kentucky
Speaker 3: for twelve weeks and I met a bunch of trumpet
Speaker 3: players there. They were all better than me. So it
Speaker 3: kind of like gave me a what am I doing?
Speaker 3: So I had to rethink, you know, the way, because
Speaker 3: I was I think in Los Angeles at the time,
Speaker 3: I was thought I was, you know, like a good player,
Speaker 3: and people were aware of my talent and when I
Speaker 3: realized my talent wasn't all that great in Knoxville, Kentucky.
Speaker 3: It was a little daunting, and I left there with
Speaker 3: the idea that if I wanted to really be a
Speaker 3: professional musician, I really had to get down to finding
Speaker 3: out how to do it right.
Speaker 2: So when you get back to LA, how did you
Speaker 2: learn how to do it well?
Speaker 3: I took lessons at first. I started. I took lessons
Speaker 3: from this teacher that taught Ralphiel Mandez. I don't know
Speaker 3: if you ever heard of that gentleman. He was an
Speaker 3: extremely talented Mexican trumpet player, could play high, fast, and
Speaker 3: you know, mind boggling. He was not a jazz musician.
Speaker 3: He was a legitimate musician. I started taking lessons from
Speaker 3: his teacher. I can't think of his name right now,
Speaker 3: but he taught me how to play high. I was
Speaker 3: playing really high. I could play real high notes, you know.
Speaker 3: And when I got out of the army, I was
Speaker 3: going to this school called something I can't think of
Speaker 3: the name, and I played in the band. I played
Speaker 3: the lead trumpet in the band, and playing high and
Speaker 3: loud and fast and all that. I started my first
Speaker 3: uppers four uppers, and the four lower teeth got loose
Speaker 3: and it was like shaking. I was putting too much
Speaker 3: pressure on the horn, and so I said, man, this
Speaker 3: is not the way I want to play. I don't
Speaker 3: want to play like that. It's the trumpet. It was
Speaker 3: designed to play up to high sea and beyond that
Speaker 3: is just it wasn't all that necessary. And I wanted
Speaker 3: to play the trumpet in a really sweet area. So
Speaker 3: that's what I decided to do. I forgot about the
Speaker 3: high stuff and trying to be in competition with everybody
Speaker 3: else who can play the highest and loudest. I didn't
Speaker 3: want to do that. So I developed this little way
Speaker 3: of playing that was kind of unique, I thought, and
Speaker 3: it still is. It still is kind of unique. The
Speaker 3: way I approached the horn.
Speaker 2: What was it like being a nice Jewish boy in
Speaker 2: the army.
Speaker 3: Well, I had no problem with that because I served
Speaker 3: my time. I didn't make any I didn't get anybody's
Speaker 3: nose out of whack. And uh, I was very fortunate
Speaker 3: because I did something that was maybe not the smartest
Speaker 3: thing to do, but I was. I should tell this story.
Speaker 3: I was in Fort Knox, Kentucky, you know, and the
Speaker 3: and the person who was cutting the orders for the
Speaker 3: My section that I was in was cutting the orders
Speaker 3: for the band, and I met him at a party
Speaker 3: and I said, man, how do you get your orders
Speaker 3: to go? Where you'd like to go? He said, where
Speaker 3: would you like to go? Said, I'd like to go to, uh,
Speaker 3: San Francisco. I'd like to go to the sixth Army
Speaker 3: band and San Francisco. He says, you can't go there
Speaker 3: because you have to enlist to get to San Francisco's
Speaker 3: band there. I said, oh, but that's the only place
Speaker 3: I really wanted to go. Anyways, I became friends with
Speaker 3: this guy, and I said, that's the only place that
Speaker 3: if you want to help me as a friend, that's right,
Speaker 3: That's where I want to go. So he made he
Speaker 3: cut the orders for San Francisco. I landed there. There
Speaker 3: were like twelve trumpet players there already, and the war
Speaker 3: an officer there said, I didn't order another trumpet player.
Speaker 3: I don't know how you got I said, I don't know,
Speaker 3: I'm just following. Obviously. He says, well, let me hear
Speaker 3: you play. And so I had a good version of
Speaker 3: the version de la Macrena, but eh, well, I can't
Speaker 3: think of how it goes right now. But I played
Speaker 3: it for him and he looked at me and he says,
Speaker 3: I like you, you're in Anyways, I got myself in
Speaker 3: by it, this song that I played for and I
Speaker 3: spent the next eighteen months in San Francisco, who was
Speaker 3: quite an experience for me because there was a big,
Speaker 3: big band. It was like seventy piece orchestra. Not it
Speaker 3: wasn't an orchestra, it was a band, and so we'd
Speaker 3: played various openings of parties and marching down streets and
Speaker 3: it was a good experience for me, and I saw
Speaker 3: some really interesting and met some interesting musicians that there. Unfortunately,
Speaker 3: there were a couple of musicians that were hooked on
Speaker 3: the wrong stuff. One in particular was a guy who
Speaker 3: when he was hooked he sounded like Milton Bernhardt Bernhardt
Speaker 3: playing drombone, and when he was not hooked, he sounded terrible.
Speaker 3: But it was an experience.
Speaker 2: So did you experience any anti Semitism in the army
Speaker 2: or in the years after?
Speaker 3: Uh No, I didn't accept One guy when I met
Speaker 3: him and he knew I was Jewish, He just, you know,
Speaker 3: he had never met a Jew before, so he kind
Speaker 3: of had the image of I had a horn coming
Speaker 3: out of my forehead, but that was the only person.
Speaker 2: Okay, guitars, you know, people have their favorites. They all
Speaker 2: sound different. How is it with trumpets?
Speaker 3: Oh, I look at it. I was going to do
Speaker 3: an a and I'm sorry I didn't do it. In
Speaker 3: the sixties, when things were starting to really do well,
Speaker 3: I wanted to do a television show using one trumpet
Speaker 3: and having me Louis Armstrong, Miles Harry, James al Hurt,
Speaker 3: and a couple other players, known players take this one trumpet,
Speaker 3: take the same song, and each one pick up that
Speaker 3: song that trumpet and play that song and it would
Speaker 3: all sound different. And this is an experience I had
Speaker 3: when I had a problem playing the horn. In nineteen seventy.
Speaker 3: I was going through a divorce and I was stuttering
Speaker 3: through the trumpet. I couldn't get for first, no doubt,
Speaker 3: you know, it wouldn't come out right. So I heard
Speaker 3: about this trumpet teacher in New York. His name was
Speaker 3: Carmine Caruso, and he was called the Troubleshooter and he
Speaker 3: would teach students from a brass player from all over
Speaker 3: the world who had problems playing. So I made contact
Speaker 3: with him. The first time I met him, I said, Carl,
Speaker 3: but I'm having, you know, this problem playing the horn.
Speaker 3: What am I doing? Should I I change the trumpet
Speaker 3: or the mouse beef or this and that and the
Speaker 3: other thing. He says, let me tell you something, kid,
Speaker 3: He said, You're the trumpet. This is just a piece
Speaker 3: of plumbing. You're the trumpet. The trumpet comes, the sound
Speaker 3: of the trumpet comes from inside you. The trump is
Speaker 3: just a megaphone. It's just an amplifier of your sound.
Speaker 3: And that was like a big, big aha for me.
Speaker 3: I try to pass that one on to young musicians.
Speaker 3: And it doesn't matter what instrument you're on. I think
Speaker 3: that is the key. You try to find the depth
Speaker 3: of what you do naturally. Don't pit yourself with Miles
Speaker 3: Davis or any of the great musicians that you happen
Speaker 3: to like. You can and learn from them, but be yourself.
Speaker 3: Try to find your own voice. It's a rough go
Speaker 3: out there to be a professional musician. There's so many
Speaker 3: great ones out there, you know. I have a jazz
Speaker 3: club here in Los Angeles, and there's a whole bunch
Speaker 3: of wonderful musicians in LA that you never hear of that,
Speaker 3: it's hard to break through. So I think one of
Speaker 3: the keys is, you know, find your own voice, find
Speaker 3: your own way of expressing yourself.
Speaker 2: So you own vibrato up there on Beverly Glenn. Is
Speaker 2: that in the black?
Speaker 3: You know?
Speaker 2: The club business, and I think about it all the time.
Speaker 2: It's certainly been there a number of times myself. That's
Speaker 2: a tough business. Are you doing it as a labor
Speaker 2: of love or is that a profitable business.
Speaker 3: I did it as a labor of love for the
Speaker 3: first about fifteen years were they were in the red event.
Speaker 3: But I did it because I wanted to have a
Speaker 3: club that would be a nice spot for great musicians
Speaker 3: where I went. I made it with an acquistition. We
Speaker 3: were very curious on getting the sound right all across
Speaker 3: the the venue and upstairs and downstairs. The sound is
Speaker 3: very beautiful. Uh, And so it took that long to
Speaker 3: really get rolling. Now we're really we're really rocking. It's
Speaker 3: just one of the hot clubs in town right now.
Speaker 2: How often do you go there?
Speaker 3: Not as often as I probably should. You know that
Speaker 3: we're doing a lot of big bands there now. And
Speaker 3: when you were there and you're trying to have a
Speaker 3: conversation with somebody. It's it's like almost impossible. But the
Speaker 3: band is great. A lot of wonderful musicians are playing.
Speaker 2: So what did you think when Peter Frampton had all
Speaker 2: this gigantic success.
Speaker 3: It was fun watching. I remember going to one of
Speaker 3: the concerts and you know, he turned one way and
Speaker 3: the girls would scream. He go another and same thing
Speaker 3: would happen. You know. He was an awfully good looking
Speaker 3: guy and the the problem that he had was he
Speaker 3: was a little too cute and he and he was
Speaker 3: a wonderful artist. He was a great guitar player and
Speaker 3: you know, wrote good songs. He was he had magic,
Speaker 3: and that probably is his looks probably might have gotten
Speaker 3: in his way. And I think they made a mistake
Speaker 3: by getting him into that Sergeant Pepper a movie or
Speaker 3: whatever that was.
Speaker 2: That's for sure. So how did you decide to sell an.
Speaker 3: M Well, it was getting to that point where artists
Speaker 3: were getting a lot of money in advance. And I
Speaker 3: heard the tape with Jerry of the Prince and I said, man,
Speaker 3: sign this guy. You know, this guy's good, you know,
Speaker 3: And he went to a meeting with his managers and
Speaker 3: all of a sudden Warner Brothers was, you know, throwing
Speaker 3: out all sorts of money, and it was got up
Speaker 3: to like a million dollars or something like that in
Speaker 3: that period. I forgot the year, but we felt, man,
Speaker 3: if we tried to put out that type of money
Speaker 3: and we were wrong, we made a mistake, it put
Speaker 3: a big hole in our ship. So we had to
Speaker 3: back off. But we heard up. Jerry heard him. I
Speaker 3: knew he had had the goods, and.
Speaker 2: So how hard was it to sell the company?
Speaker 3: For me? It wasn't not hard. I made a demand
Speaker 3: that what I wanted to do. I wanted to sell
Speaker 3: forty nine percent of it and for us to keep
Speaker 3: the fifty one ad control of the company. That was
Speaker 3: my initial thought. Then they kept upping the price, upping
Speaker 3: the price, upping it to the point where we just
Speaker 3: felt that it was time. It was we had a
Speaker 3: great run. We sold it and shook hands like we
Speaker 3: did and when we started and moved on. So it
Speaker 3: was not as pleasant for Jerry it was for me.
Speaker 3: Jerry wanted to continue on in his capacity and things
Speaker 3: changed hands with the PolyGram PolyGram yeah, and the top
Speaker 3: man had to retire, and Jerry was very friendly with
Speaker 3: him and then it was a little tougher for him
Speaker 3: to to be effective with the new regime. But I
Speaker 3: remember leaving the place and twenty nineteen twenty my memories
Speaker 3: losing my perspective and thinking, you know, there's other things
Speaker 3: I wanted to do. I wanted to paint, I wanted
Speaker 3: to scope, I wanted to make music. I wanted to
Speaker 3: do be free, and it felt right for me. I
Speaker 3: didn't look back. I never didn't go back to an
Speaker 3: M for several years until for some reason I was
Speaker 3: back there in the studio recording something and.
Speaker 2: Jerry started over with Almo. Were you partners in that?
Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, we were partners with that. I wasn't into it.
Speaker 3: I didn't get it. It was like for me, it
Speaker 3: was like trying to relive a moment, and I wasn't
Speaker 3: into that.
Speaker 2: So you get this huge check, it's, you know, incredible
Speaker 2: amount of money, nine figures. What do you do with
Speaker 2: the money and how do you know what to do
Speaker 2: with the money?
Speaker 3: A good question. Surround yourself with great people who know
Speaker 3: what to do with it. That's what we did. That's
Speaker 3: what I did, And then I started the you know,
Speaker 3: the Herbalbert Foundation in nineteen a maybe two, and I
Speaker 3: felt like I didn't want to hang a Picasso or
Speaker 3: Monet on my wall. I wanted to be able to
Speaker 3: share my good fortune with some other people as well.
Speaker 2: So tell me all the things the foundation does.
Speaker 3: We try to keep arts alive, try to keep jazz alive,
Speaker 3: try to work with organizations that are friendly and open
Speaker 3: to all different races and religions, and trying to be
Speaker 3: there to keep art art alive. I mean, this art
Speaker 3: is the thing that is. I mean it's not gonna
Speaker 3: We're not going to change the world with music, but
Speaker 3: we're certainly going to bring some warmth to uh to
Speaker 3: our hormones for people that get it.
Speaker 2: And tell me about the Herb Albert School of Music
Speaker 2: at U c l A.
Speaker 3: Well, what can I tell you. It's a great school.
Speaker 3: We have great personnel. It's we redid the whole most
Speaker 3: of it. We had not recording but practice rooms down
Speaker 3: below in this in the basement that it was like
Speaker 3: there from the thirties, you know, it was like old times.
Speaker 3: So we want to updated make sure that the students
Speaker 3: there are happy and learning what they want to learn.
Speaker 3: I don't know, I'm not in an every day situation
Speaker 3: with them. But I'm proud of the school and what
Speaker 3: we've accomplished to this point.
Speaker 2: Okay, you are ninety, you're very active. What's it like
Speaker 2: when your friends passed? How do you cope with that?
Speaker 3: Man? It's tough. Yesterday was a tough day for me.
Speaker 3: I like Rob Ryner so much. He's a good guy, honest, great, creative,
Speaker 3: funny and for that to happen and the way it did,
Speaker 3: it was really tough on his friends and the people
Speaker 3: that knew him because he was a special human being.
Speaker 2: So what other than working on the road, what does
Speaker 2: your everyday life look like now?
Speaker 3: Well, I paint, I scope, I have shows in different
Speaker 3: parts of the world, my art and I love making music.
Speaker 3: I record most every day or I'm playing with the horn,
Speaker 3: Yeah I am. I record all the time. I like
Speaker 3: finding songs and see if I can play them innutes
Speaker 3: in a way that haven't been played quite that way before.
Speaker 3: That's one of the things I love to do and
Speaker 3: learn the system of logic that allows me to be
Speaker 3: able to move tracks and do the things that engineers
Speaker 3: do and keeps my brain alive in the way.
Speaker 2: And you've been on this string of live dates now
Speaker 2: with the Tijuana, brask Are you going to die on stage?
Speaker 2: You're gonna keep doing it forever? Or what do you see?
Speaker 3: I'm going to do it as long as I'm able
Speaker 3: to do it. I get pleasure out of it, and
Speaker 3: I never thought I was going to do it. I
Speaker 3: think I told you in the earlier part of the
Speaker 3: conversation where I listened to these eighteen songs that my manager,
Speaker 3: one of my managers told me that people were excited
Speaker 3: and listening to around the world, And when I heard
Speaker 3: it myself, I felt good and it made me feel good,
Speaker 3: and that wasn't when I decided to get a group
Speaker 3: back together. And my experience on stage with them is
Speaker 3: just I never realized how much fun I was having
Speaker 3: doing it, especially when I'm hearing great music and musicians
Speaker 3: behind me. It's just it's easy for me to do.
Speaker 3: And we've had sold out this whole year, was sold
Speaker 3: out concerts, and lucky that I get a chance at
Speaker 3: my age to share my gift with others and they
Speaker 3: have an experience that I never really even thought of it.
Speaker 3: I think we're going through a strange time in our history,
Speaker 3: not only this country, but in the world. People are
Speaker 3: looking for something positive to happen, and my music I
Speaker 3: think is helping in that area.
Speaker 2: For those who haven't seen the show, what Herb is
Speaker 2: saying is totally accurate. The music is very uplifting, and
Speaker 2: there's a lot of video that I couldn't even begin
Speaker 2: to describe, from all sorts of things, from Herb being
Speaker 2: in an A and M video for another act, the
Speaker 2: stuff from the sixties, and Herb tells these stories and
Speaker 2: many more. So I certainly loved it. That's why I
Speaker 2: reached out to do this podcast. I love what you
Speaker 2: said about emotion and feel People don't know that. They
Speaker 2: sound like simple concepts, but too much of today's modern
Speaker 2: music is missing that. So I'm glad to hear you
Speaker 2: say that, Herb. I want to thank you so much
Speaker 2: for spending this time with my audience. It's a thrill
Speaker 2: for me to meet you face to face. Thanks for
Speaker 2: doing this.
Speaker 3: And my pleasure. Thank you so much, Bob. I really
Speaker 3: appreciate what you do and how you keep music and
Speaker 3: art alive. I mean, that's what we need in this country.
Speaker 3: It's all about all At the perfect time when I'm
Speaker 3: trying to and in this conversation, I'm up. I can't
Speaker 3: find the words what you helped me out. You're the
Speaker 3: words smith What was what was that?
Speaker 2: You're an artist. You speak through your horn. That's how
Speaker 2: you connect with people. And we got a little bit
Speaker 2: of a peak inside the man behind the horn today.
Speaker 2: One final question, Yeah, how many trumpets do you own?
Speaker 3: I have a lot of them, and I plan on
Speaker 3: giving them away. I have this one horn that I
Speaker 3: played all the Tijuana Brass records on that the Smithsonian
Speaker 3: wants to have, so I'm kind of putting that in
Speaker 3: the closet. I'm not using that horn anymore, but I
Speaker 3: have a lot. It's not the you know, like I
Speaker 3: said during the conversation, it's not the horn, it's the
Speaker 3: It's the thing that comes out from inside a person's gut.
Speaker 3: So that's that's my sound. I don't think anyone can
Speaker 3: duplicate my exact feeling.
Speaker 2: I think that's absolutely true. And as I say, you're
Speaker 2: a warm person, great personality, great career. Thanks so much
Speaker 2: for taking this time with my audience. Till next time.
Speaker 2: This is Bob left set