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Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff Mom Never Told You from how Stuff

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Speaker 1: Works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: Kristen and I'm Caroline and Caroline guess what what? Well,

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Speaker 1: first of all, we're talking about gender and internet trolling,

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Speaker 1: very touchy topic. It is a very touchy topic, which

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Speaker 1: is why we have invited the very first male guest

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Speaker 1: on stuff Mom Never Told You here in the studio

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Speaker 1: with us that we are delighted to have our fellow

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Speaker 1: How Stuff Works employee and podcaster co host of Tech

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Speaker 1: Stuff Podcasts, Jonathan Strickland. I'm feeling an intense sense of

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Speaker 1: pressure right now. I am uh, yeah, no pressure. You

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Speaker 1: are only representing all men. That's that's fair. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: all of technology. I feel I feel that I am

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Speaker 1: fully qualified to do both of those things. Yes, here

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Speaker 1: the all encompassing mail voice of tech, and the reason

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Speaker 1: we wanted to to bring on a tech expert, as

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Speaker 1: Jonathan is is because we wanted to look at the

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Speaker 1: gendered aspect of trolling. It was a suggestion sent in

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Speaker 1: by a listener and it's a really relevant topic. But

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Speaker 1: it doesn't seem like there's been a ton of scholarship

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Speaker 1: done on this specific aspect. Of Internet trolling. But before

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Speaker 1: we go any further, let's run down just the basics

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Speaker 1: of what a troll is. How would you define a troll? Sure? Okay,

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Speaker 1: so if you if you cast back the the hands

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Speaker 1: of the clock and really think back to the early

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Speaker 1: early days of the Internet, before there was even a

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Speaker 1: worldwide Web. There's and it still exists today, But there

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Speaker 1: was this thing called usenet, which was essentially kind of

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Speaker 1: a forum system and had a lot of news groups

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Speaker 1: in it. Well, usenet is where a lot of our

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Speaker 1: Internet culture first got its start. So more than a

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Speaker 1: decade before the Worldwide Web became a thing, well, there

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Speaker 1: was this uh trend on use neet where people would

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Speaker 1: try and have conversations around a certain topic, and once

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Speaker 1: in a while someone with an overdeveloped sense of mischief

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Speaker 1: would come in and try to divert the conversation and

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Speaker 1: or subvert it or just have it completely collapsed. And

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Speaker 1: they use various means to do that, usually doing things

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Speaker 1: like asking stupid questions to try and get people to

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Speaker 1: to answer them, and then they would follow that up

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Speaker 1: with even more stupid questions and the whole point of

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Speaker 1: it was just to irritate people and and get them

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Speaker 1: to to kind of lose their tempers or lose their patients,

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Speaker 1: and it was all considered a big joke. That's technically

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Speaker 1: what a troll is. It's someone who is set out

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Speaker 1: to disrupt the the the things that people are doing

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Speaker 1: online us for the laughs or the lulls as they say,

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Speaker 1: the l u l z l u l z, which

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Speaker 1: is of course as a corruption of l O l so,

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Speaker 1: which we all know laugh out loud. And so it

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Speaker 1: sounds like trolling started off as just some general mischief making,

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Speaker 1: but it has now developed into this just like horrible

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Speaker 1: creeping online behavior, um but that we associate at least

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Speaker 1: I would associate with things like just making horribly like

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Speaker 1: racist comments. Yeah, some would argue, and many have argued

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Speaker 1: that this goes outside the definition of troll. Personally, I

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Speaker 1: think language is a flexible thing. It changes over time.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes we will group stuff together under a definition that

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Speaker 1: did not belong there before. Per As someone who works

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Speaker 1: in the whole technology field and I covered all the time,

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Speaker 1: I'm perfectly happy calling all of that trolling because I

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Speaker 1: think a lot of it does and at least the

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Speaker 1: major defense mechanism that a lot of these people have

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Speaker 1: is that oh, I'm just doing it for fun, which

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Speaker 1: doesn't ring true to me no matter which version of

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Speaker 1: trolling you're looking at, and it specifically doesn't ring true.

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Speaker 1: And these more intense personal attacks that tend to focus

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Speaker 1: on things like race or gender. Right, Yeah, speaking of

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Speaker 1: intense personal attacks, Uh, there have been a lot of

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Speaker 1: female bloggers, writers, journalists who have dealt not just with

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Speaker 1: trolling per se, but also intense internet abuse. Yes, why

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Speaker 1: why the focus on these women? Why are they calling

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Speaker 1: out all of these lady writers. Okay, we're gonna we're

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Speaker 1: gonna really dig down here, because this this has nothing

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Speaker 1: to do with technology really when you get down to it.

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Speaker 1: Technology is an enabler, but it is not the reason

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Speaker 1: why this happens. Uh. And a lot of this is

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Speaker 1: going to be my opinion and some armchairs psychology slash sociology.

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Speaker 1: But because again the there's not a whole lot of

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Speaker 1: literature on this. It it's still fairly young as far

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Speaker 1: as uh, gender studies go. Although a lot of the

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Speaker 1: stuff that that um I will talk about goes back

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Speaker 1: much further than say tech, you know, internet, computer is

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Speaker 1: that kind of thing. I think that first of all,

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Speaker 1: you've got this underlying social and cultural perception that has

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Speaker 1: been reinforced over generations, where a lot of men have

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Speaker 1: difficulties seeing beyond their privileged perspectives. Now I'm a white male,

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Speaker 1: I get out of this studio. I'm sorry. I apologize

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Speaker 1: for that. No, I don't apologize. I don't apologize for it.

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Speaker 1: But it does mean that I come from a very

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Speaker 1: particular sense of privilege. I was born into that. And

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Speaker 1: even though my parents were very loving and compassionate and

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Speaker 1: taught me very well, in my opinion, I still grew

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Speaker 1: up in a culture that reinforces certain perspective is repeatedly

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Speaker 1: through things like entertainment, literature, even news reporting. I mean,

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Speaker 1: everything that you encounter in the in the culture has

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Speaker 1: some element of this. And so when that gets reinforced

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Speaker 1: over and over and over again, uh, it could be

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Speaker 1: easy to develop a really awful perspective in which women

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Speaker 1: can be seen by some men as being more like

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Speaker 1: an object. We talk about the objectification of women. That

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Speaker 1: really does mean what we literally think of it to mean,

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Speaker 1: and you don't necessarily think of a woman as a person,

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Speaker 1: which is a terrible, terrible thing, And that means that

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Speaker 1: you can project upon that object things that that you

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Speaker 1: would never say to a person and feel you feel

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Speaker 1: free to say those things. Uh. The internet makes it

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Speaker 1: easier because it creates the sense of distance, so you

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Speaker 1: don't have that immediacy. You also have that sense of

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Speaker 1: anonymity that you can get from the internet, so you're

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Speaker 1: somewhat shielded from any sort of response from the person

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Speaker 1: that you are attacking. UM. And because there's a gender

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Speaker 1: imbalance with the number of men versus women active on

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Speaker 1: the internet, although that's you know, leveling out, you have

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Speaker 1: a built in uh support group really and it's a

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Speaker 1: terrible thing to call the support group, but it means

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Speaker 1: that because there are more men there than there are women,

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Speaker 1: there are potentially more people who feel the same way

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Speaker 1: you do or just don't care. So you get that

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Speaker 1: support system feeding that back in and it's really upsetting

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Speaker 1: and depressing. The nice thing is there are men and

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Speaker 1: women out there who are pointing this out, and so

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Speaker 1: I think that is our best hope of turning this around.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that that this is I mean, I

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Speaker 1: understand and totally agree that this is UM like the

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Speaker 1: kind of sexist throwing um and misogynistic comments that will

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Speaker 1: come up a lot online um are it's merely like

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Speaker 1: a new forum for a really old thing. But I

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Speaker 1: also wonder if um the it also is a reflection

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Speaker 1: of the gendered landscape of um the Internet, where it's

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Speaker 1: not just a numbers game but a thing of where

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Speaker 1: like you know, we hear a lot about how women

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Speaker 1: thriving like social media, whereas men tend to be more

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Speaker 1: active in like comment spaces, message boards like Reddit, places

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Speaker 1: like that, and kind of I don't know, does that

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Speaker 1: make sense? Yeah? I want there are communities out there

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Speaker 1: that are largely dominated by men. And again, if you

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Speaker 1: if you're in a community where no one is challenging

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Speaker 1: your point of view, then it really is almost the

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Speaker 1: same as them confirming your point of view, right, I mean? Well,

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Speaker 1: and that reminds me too of the who was the

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Speaker 1: huge um troll, the epic trol that was just unmasked

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Speaker 1: by the Adrian Chan story and Gawker right, right, I

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Speaker 1: know the story you're talking about violenta krez Um And

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Speaker 1: I was gonna ask like one of the hashtags that

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Speaker 1: he was infamous for and read it was hashtag rate bait,

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Speaker 1: And a lot of response that I read was from

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Speaker 1: some people saying like no, No, this is just you

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Speaker 1: don't get it. This is a joke. It was just

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Speaker 1: a joke. And to me, that reminds you what you're

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Speaker 1: saying that it's deflecting personal responsibility for the things that

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Speaker 1: you do. Uh. We see this all the time with

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Speaker 1: trollish behavior, and it's that's that's one of the main methods.

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Speaker 1: Another one is a logical fallacy called to cook reasoning.

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Speaker 1: That means you as well or you also so in

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Speaker 1: other words, Uh, it's deflecting by means by saying like, hey,

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Speaker 1: it's okay for me to do it, because look at

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Speaker 1: what's going on over here, and that's way worse that.

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Speaker 1: That's another way of deflection. For example. Uh, one of

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Speaker 1: the things, one of the stories I want to talk

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Speaker 1: about was the the Anita's Sarkasian story. She was, you know,

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Speaker 1: started up a kick Starter she was gonna do she

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Speaker 1: is doing a video series about uh, sexist tropes that

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Speaker 1: are in video games. Yeah, we cited her feminist frequency videos,

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Speaker 1: and so she launched this Kickstarter campaign to fund uh

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Speaker 1: this video series. She had a six thousand dollar campaign goal.

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Speaker 1: Within twenty four hours, she had made that goal. But

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Speaker 1: then there came this outpouring of awful, awful comments, particularly

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Speaker 1: on YouTube, which you know there there are a few

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Speaker 1: communities on the Internet that have a comment system that

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Speaker 1: has has filled with more vile comments than YouTube. There

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Speaker 1: are some like four Chan, but but YouTube, considering that

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Speaker 1: it's essentially the second largest search engine in the world,

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Speaker 1: that's pretty that's that's not great, right, So there were

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Speaker 1: all these comments that were coming out and uh, and

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Speaker 1: they were vicious and viciously attacking her. She had not

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Speaker 1: even shot a single video in this series yet, and

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Speaker 1: she was talking about examining this. There were people who

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Speaker 1: are feeling threatened by it. I assumed either that maybe

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Speaker 1: the hobby that they love they felt threatened and they

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Speaker 1: felt that they needed to strike back. And it completely

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Speaker 1: flabbergasted me when I when I started to read these comments,

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Speaker 1: I was looking through and I was getting angry, and

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Speaker 1: I was thinking, you know, I've I've had a lot

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Speaker 1: of experience with trolls. I know that they like to

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Speaker 1: push buttons and stuff, but this went well beyond that.

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Speaker 1: This was these were outright attacks, essentially, and and you know,

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Speaker 1: the threat of rape or other violence to me, that

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Speaker 1: is as serious or nearly as serious as the actual

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Speaker 1: violence itself. If nothing else, it's going to create this

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Speaker 1: sense of dread in the person that you are attacking,

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Speaker 1: and that is just it's so unacceptable as there are

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Speaker 1: no words for it, right and a lot of uh

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Speaker 1: women writers talk also about seaving emails with their personal

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Speaker 1: addresses and phone numbers published like we can find you,

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Speaker 1: and so a lot of them end up voicing opinions like, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, I kind of feel like this has a

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Speaker 1: chilling effect, like if if I'm going to face all

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Speaker 1: of this abuse simply for writing an article or writing

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Speaker 1: a blog post, maybe I should stay away from hot

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Speaker 1: button issues. It's and it's I mean that it's a

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Speaker 1: silencing tactic. And what's worse is you never know when

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Speaker 1: you're talking about the numbers game, when so many people

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Speaker 1: are attacking you, you never know there might be someone

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Speaker 1: among that throng who really does intend to carry out

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Speaker 1: on some sort of threat. The publishing of addresses. That's

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Speaker 1: nothing new. I mean, we've seen trolls or hackers or

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Speaker 1: whatever whatever term you want to use for people who

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Speaker 1: have employed these tactics. We've seen that in the past before.

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Speaker 1: But the combining that with the the no longer implicit

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Speaker 1: but explicit threats of violence and rape. That's new. That's

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Speaker 1: not something that I've seen before. And uh, and that

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Speaker 1: part I think is one of the one of the

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Speaker 1: elements that the Internet does make possible. Without the Internet,

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Speaker 1: without that anonymity, uh, and without that distance from the person,

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Speaker 1: I don't think that would be happening. I really hope

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Speaker 1: that wouldn't be happening. Yeah, I was gonna ask whether

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Speaker 1: or not because it seems like this, I mean, obviously

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Speaker 1: this kind of trolling behavior has been going on for

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Speaker 1: a long time, um, but it also seems like we're

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Speaker 1: hearing about it just now, like and it well, it

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Speaker 1: gets in the past like a year and a half

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Speaker 1: or so, like, it comes up a lot more frequently.

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Speaker 1: And it might be because, um, maybe more women are

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Speaker 1: just getting braver about stepping up and not being so

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Speaker 1: scared about feeding the trolls. There's also I think a

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Speaker 1: growing fear among a certain population of men that feel

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Speaker 1: a threat. And it's not necessarily something that even consciously

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Speaker 1: are aware of, but they feel threatened when you're talking

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Speaker 1: about especially when when views are being challenged, where you're

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Speaker 1: not thinking, oh, this is another person, You're not thinking

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Speaker 1: this is a person. You're thinking that's a woman, and

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Speaker 1: you're already started to distance you know, yourself from the

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Speaker 1: other person. I'm saying yourself, as as for all men,

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Speaker 1: since I am representing every single one all of them. Uh. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So it's it's a combination of those things. Uh. I've

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Speaker 1: seen a lot of discussions about what do we do

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Speaker 1: about this and what are the best ways of of

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Speaker 1: treating this problem? Um, the to go back to that

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Speaker 1: whole uh, you know, the they you should just be

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Speaker 1: able to take a joke. Thing. One of the things

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Speaker 1: I've seen trolls say over and over again is once

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Speaker 1: everyone gets over these triggers, like, once these triggers don't

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Speaker 1: work on you, then our work is done. As if

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Speaker 1: it's their responsibility to somehow better the human race by

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Speaker 1: taking away our our our emotion, our sensitivity, our emotional

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Speaker 1: reactions are empathy. Uh. To me, that's like saying if

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Speaker 1: you don't uh, and if you aren't constantly vigilant and

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Speaker 1: also a martial arts expert, it's your own fault if

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Speaker 1: I walk down the street and punch you in the face.

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Speaker 1: That makes no sense to me. Yeah, women just become

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Speaker 1: desensitized certain direct rate threat and and so what I

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Speaker 1: would say is that the real solution to this problem

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Speaker 1: has nothing to do with technology. I mean, with technology,

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Speaker 1: you can do things like you can ban people, you

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Speaker 1: can you know, in certain forms, you can ignore certain

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Speaker 1: users so that way you just don't see what they

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Speaker 1: have to say. That doesn't solve the problem. The problem,

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Speaker 1: to me is a social and cultural problem that needs

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Speaker 1: to be addressed at the base level, where people, specifically men,

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Speaker 1: need to realize women are people. Women have valuable things

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Speaker 1: to say. They are intelligent, many of them are more

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Speaker 1: intelligent than you are. Probably accept that, and once you do,

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Speaker 1: maybe the world will actually be a better place. I

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Speaker 1: do get the feeling from reading some comments sometimes that

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Speaker 1: there are a lot of mail trolls or just male

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Speaker 1: comments out there who were like, this is my space,

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Speaker 1: what are you doing in my personal internet world? Yeah? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like I said, it's it's it's a feeling, you know,

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Speaker 1: It's like they feel like they're being threatened. I have

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Speaker 1: met women who are incredibly accomplished in every every kind

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Speaker 1: of field I can imagine, including things like that that

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Speaker 1: are traditionally seen as very male centric activities like video games.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's a good example because I covered video

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Speaker 1: games and I've met women who are legitimately badasses at

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Speaker 1: video games. They will wipe the floor with with professional gamers.

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Speaker 1: They are playing at a professional level. And yet time

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Speaker 1: and again a male gamer who might not even be

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Speaker 1: able to figure out how to open up a door

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Speaker 1: in a video game will claim they are not quote

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Speaker 1: unquote a real gamer. And as long as that kind

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Speaker 1: of attitude exists, that just tells me that this sort

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Speaker 1: of problem is going to be there. It may not

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Speaker 1: necessarily be as a visible as it currently is right now,

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Speaker 1: because we've had some very high profile examples in the

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Speaker 1: last year this SPEK two thousand twelve, but it's always

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Speaker 1: going to be there until as an entire culture in

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Speaker 1: society we come to terms with this and teach men

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Speaker 1: that women are people. And in a way, this could

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Speaker 1: be a good forum for it to happen, because it

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Speaker 1: seems like our tolerance for this kind of trolling is

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Speaker 1: um diminishing, and because of social media there is a

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Speaker 1: huge backlash. I mean the fact that I think that

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Speaker 1: the the Reddit troll violintacrez Um. I don't know. I

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Speaker 1: feel like if I say his name three times, like

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Speaker 1: something's gonna happen. Uh, Like, I think he ended up

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Speaker 1: like losing his job I r L in real life.

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Speaker 1: And but also really quick I wanted to ask before

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Speaker 1: we wrap things up, is that Yeah, we've been We've

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Speaker 1: been kind of focusing the conversation on like male troll

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Speaker 1: versus female Internet user. And I mean, I've seen plenty

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Speaker 1: of cyber bullying and cyber snarking from women online, and well,

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Speaker 1: we are not we are not blameless. Uh So do

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Speaker 1: you think though, um, And this might be hard to project,

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Speaker 1: but it seems like trolls are almost always portrayed or

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Speaker 1: assumed to be guys, Like, does it seem like this

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Speaker 1: behavior is definitely more No, Well, I think if you're

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Speaker 1: going by strictly numbers, it ends up being more guys.

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Speaker 1: I think, Uh, I think there are There are many

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Speaker 1: examples of women engaging in trollish behavior. The Megan Meyer

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Speaker 1: cases of as an example of that. It's a terrible,

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Speaker 1: tragic example of that, but it's one of those uh

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Speaker 1: stories that the illustrates that again, and it's it's more

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Speaker 1: of this human reaction of taking taking action against another person.

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Speaker 1: The Internet enables that, I mean, it gives us a

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Speaker 1: huge amount of power over other people, right, because not

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Speaker 1: only do we have the opportunity, and we have that anonymity, uh,

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Speaker 1: we can strike out in multiple ways against a target,

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Speaker 1: whether it's on social networks or publishing information that's private publicly,

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Speaker 1: or creating false reports about that person. Um. The Internet

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Speaker 1: gives us a lot of those chances. And it's not

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Speaker 1: just men who do it. I just think that there

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Speaker 1: are more men in that arena overall, and so we

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Speaker 1: see a lot more of it there. Also Again, uh,

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Speaker 1: we see certain types of trolling more from men than

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Speaker 1: from women. There's also plenty of examples of men attacking men,

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Speaker 1: women attacking women. I mean, it's it's it's not a

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Speaker 1: happy fun place all the time. That's not just say

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Speaker 1: that every place on the Internet is terrible. I don't

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Speaker 1: mean to give that it can be. It can be there,

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Speaker 1: and there are particular communities online where it's it's it's

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Speaker 1: worse than others. And I've seen this sort of bubble

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Speaker 1: up in communities that I had never even thought of

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Speaker 1: as being particularly problematic, For example, science and skeptic forums,

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Speaker 1: where you would think, all right, the people who belong

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Speaker 1: to those forums often think of themselves as being very

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Speaker 1: rational and critical thinkers. And yet when these situations come up,

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Speaker 1: when a woman says, I did not feel comfortable in

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Speaker 1: this situation because blah blah blah, you see the same

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Speaker 1: deflection and defensive behavior that you would from a troll,

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Speaker 1: which is very telling to me. That's saying that there's

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Speaker 1: this much deeper underlying problem. And it's not just people

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Speaker 1: who are actively trying to troll other folks. It's it's

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Speaker 1: you know, it's it's more of a base problem than that.

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Speaker 1: It's an offline problem just being manifested. Yes, it's probably

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Speaker 1: being a man you just don't understand. I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: sorry about being all up in your man world. Listen,

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Speaker 1: you know what, I'm just gonna stay off. The internet

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Speaker 1: makes sometimes and and I wish that I really wish

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Speaker 1: that more men seen could could have the start sort

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Speaker 1: of experience I've had where I've First of all, I

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Speaker 1: pursued a liberal arts education, which meant that I was

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Speaker 1: often in classes with women who were wicked smart. I mean,

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Speaker 1: they really knew their stuff and they kept me on

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Speaker 1: my toes. And then I come and work and how

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Speaker 1: stuff works. And we have so many brilliant women working

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Speaker 1: here that again, like I'm not the smartest person in

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Speaker 1: the room. I know that already. I'm a pretty bright guy,

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Speaker 1: don't get me wrong. But I know I'm not the

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Speaker 1: smartest part person in the room. And I know that

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Speaker 1: there are women here that are as capable, more capable,

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Speaker 1: smarter than I am. That's all, okay, if only we

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Speaker 1: could drive though, Oh yeah, it's it's the only problem,

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00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:12,200
Speaker 1: of course, is your obsession with shoes. That's right. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it takes up a lot of closet space. You're right, Well, Karline,

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Speaker 1: do you have any any other questions about trolling in gender,

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Speaker 1: because I think, I mean, it's a great point, like it.

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Speaker 1: It really sounds like this. It's a it's a sad

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Speaker 1: reflection of where we still are. I mean, I think

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Speaker 1: I think such a big issue is the anonymity and

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Speaker 1: that it lets people with psychopathic tendencies just sort of

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Speaker 1: run wild with their complete lack of empathy, et cetera,

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Speaker 1: um and just take it out on people who they

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Speaker 1: perceive as not belonging to their club. Well, do you

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Speaker 1: have for any listeners out there though, who might be

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Speaker 1: dealing with trolling behavior? Do you have any, um, any

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Speaker 1: quick tips to close this out on how you silence

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Speaker 1: a troll. Aside from just silencing yourself, ignoring trolls is

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Speaker 1: a is a good star because the general rule is

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Speaker 1: the more you more you try to engage with the troll,

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Speaker 1: the more that feeds into that trollish behavior, particularly if

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Speaker 1: we're talking traditional trolls. I mean, that's their whole goal

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Speaker 1: is to get it. It's it's to get you riled

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Speaker 1: up an upset, and the more you get riled up

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Speaker 1: an upset and engage them, the more they win. So

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Speaker 1: you don't feed the trolls. That's rule number one. But

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Speaker 1: also just do some searches. Be aware that there are

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Speaker 1: people out there who are not only aware of the problem,

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Speaker 1: that are trying to fight the problem. There are advocates

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Speaker 1: out there who are telling everyone men and women alike,

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Speaker 1: you know, the key to this is educating ourselves and

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Speaker 1: getting beyond this mindset. Uh. Jay Smooth has an amazing

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Speaker 1: video where he addresses the male audience and says, guys,

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Speaker 1: for those of you out here who agree with me,

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Speaker 1: who are saying that this is a terrible thing, it's

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Speaker 1: time for you to tell other men that it's the

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Speaker 1: wrong thing. We're not defending women. Women can defend themselves.

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Speaker 1: We're just telling the men, you're a jerk. You know,

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Speaker 1: you gotta you gotta wake up and realize that this

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Speaker 1: is not okay and this is not what being a

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Speaker 1: man is all about. And I thought that that was

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00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:11,200
Speaker 1: a great message because again, he wasn't saying, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: we gotta sweep in and rescue the women from this.

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Speaker 1: That wasn't his point. His point was, No, it's just

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Speaker 1: unacceptable behavior on the part of men. That's what we

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Speaker 1: need to fix. And I think that's the best message

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Speaker 1: out there. I think that's I think that's a great

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Speaker 1: message to end on too. Yeah, And I mean, obviously

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Speaker 1: we could talk about this for hours, but I guess

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Speaker 1: we should ask for our listeners now, Yeah, for their

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Speaker 1: own stories. Have you dealt with trolls? Are you a troll? No,

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Speaker 1: that's no, we don't want to talk to the trolls.

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Speaker 1: We're not going to pay you a troll. Troll. Maybe

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Speaker 1: you're a reformed troll. Maybe you learn from the errors

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00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:47,760
Speaker 1: of your ways. Yeah, right to us. So Mom's stuff

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Speaker 1: at Discovery dot com and you can always head over

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00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:53,600
Speaker 1: to you our Facebook page as well. But before we

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Speaker 1: get to our letters, you guessed it it's time forward

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Speaker 1: Threads dot com slash Mom. And now here's some letters.

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Speaker 1: We got a couple of letters here, um about our

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Speaker 1: episode on having sex during pregnancy. Jonathan is now, uh

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00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:51,959
Speaker 1: looking a little more uncomfortable. No, okay, this is a

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00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:54,119
Speaker 1: good one, all right, Um, I mean they're all all

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Speaker 1: of our letters are good letters. Um. So this one, Oh,

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00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:00,840
Speaker 1: I asked a question about because we were talking about

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Speaker 1: how uh pregnant sea fetishes and a lot of the

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00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:06,960
Speaker 1: stuff was talking about how men are attracted to pregnant women,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, well, what about uh if you

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Speaker 1: are a lesbian? And guess what we have an answer?

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Speaker 1: So I was listening to your latest podcast is from

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Speaker 1: Amanda and Carmen. I was listening to your latest podcast

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00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:21,320
Speaker 1: on sex during pregnancy this morning and realized I finally

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00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 1: had a reason to write you for reals. H She says,

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00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:27,160
Speaker 1: I have a bizarre case of t M I regarding

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Speaker 1: lesbians attracted to pregnant women. I'm in a same sex

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00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:33,560
Speaker 1: relationship with a lesbian and I've discovered that my girlfriend

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00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:36,359
Speaker 1: has an intense attraction to pregnant women. And this is

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00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:39,560
Speaker 1: in her girlfriend's own words or explanation. I like that

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00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:42,320
Speaker 1: there is literally a glow to pregnant women. I like

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00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:44,440
Speaker 1: that each step they take is so elegant because they're

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00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:47,400
Speaker 1: careful of each step in movement. I really like looking

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00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 1: at people's hands, and pregnant women touch their own bellies

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00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:52,720
Speaker 1: in a way that makes me want to touch them too.

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Speaker 1: There's so much love exuding from them and boobs. So

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Speaker 1: there you go, pregnant sea attraction from a lesbian's perspective,

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Speaker 1: she says, I pointed on being with her forever, and

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Speaker 1: I don't necessarily think I want children all. It's not lost. However,

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Speaker 1: one of my major menstrual boken. Wow, that was a

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00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:19,359
Speaker 1: very sweet letter. Yes, all right, so we will look

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00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:26,560
Speaker 1: like full busted, loving ladies with a glow. Yeah, pregnancy.

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Speaker 1: I'm just I'm amazed I wasn't the one blushing. No, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I've got a little pink and the chewks. All right. Well,

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Speaker 1: this one's from Alison. She has her own experience to share.

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Speaker 1: She says, I have two children, and in the first

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Speaker 1: trimester of both of my pregnancies, I felt the same

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Speaker 1: nauseous gassie, gagging in any strong odor, hungry but disgusted

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Speaker 1: by most foods, and exhausted to a point I never

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Speaker 1: thought possible. I couldn't even be in the same room

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Speaker 1: with my husband after we drank a beer from the

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Speaker 1: alcohol odor on his breath, so there was no way

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Speaker 1: I wanted to kis him or even be close to him.

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00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:00,439
Speaker 1: My labita did improve later in my pregnancy, and with

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Speaker 1: my second pregnancy, I could hardly get enough sex, much

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Speaker 1: to my husband's delight. That said, having sex while there's

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Speaker 1: a growing baby inside your body wiggling around can be

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Speaker 1: a bit strange and off putting. There were even times

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Speaker 1: when sex was downright uncomfortable, such as when I experienced

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Speaker 1: round ligament pain, and by the very end of both pregnancies,

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Speaker 1: I could barely roll over in bed, making any type

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Speaker 1: of sexual activity logistically challenging and tiring. She says that

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Speaker 1: I was interested to hear in your podcast that men

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Speaker 1: tend to be more attracted to pregnant women. I remember

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Speaker 1: near the end of my pregnancies, I got a lot

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Speaker 1: more attention from men. At the time, I couldn't fathom

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Speaker 1: that they could be attracted to me, since I felt

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Speaker 1: like a bloated whale. But it turns out my presence

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Speaker 1: may have triggered some primal male instinct. Maybe it isn't

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Speaker 1: it ironic then that women get super hot when uh

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Speaker 1: they're probably not single? Yeah, maybe they are. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I have a friend who said that if he sees

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Speaker 1: a pregnant woman out, he was so attractive to pregnant women.

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Speaker 1: If you were to see one out without a wedding ring,

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Speaker 1: he would totally hit on her. So they're pregnant. Pregnant listeners,

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Speaker 1: listen up. Uh, So that's all we've got for you, Um, Jonathan,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for being our our guest today

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Speaker 1: and being our man. Thank you, thank you. I I

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Speaker 1: am this is not a joke. I'm truly honored to

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Speaker 1: have been the first male guest on this show. Guests, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I didn't realize until after I invited Jonathan on and

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh my gosh, our first guy. We've

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Speaker 1: been talking about this. It's fair. A lot of a

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00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 1: lot of people look at me and they don't first

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00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 1: think man, the first thing bald, Yes you have a

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Speaker 1: beard though, that's true. I do have one of those.

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Speaker 1: All right. Well, thanks to everybody for listening. Again. You

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Speaker 1: can find us on Facebook, follow us on Twitter at

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00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 1: Mom Stuff Podcast. You can also follow us on Tumbler

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00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:52,160
Speaker 1: at stuff mom Never Told You dot tumbler dot com.

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Speaker 1: And if you want to learn more about trolls, I

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Speaker 1: highly recommend reading Jonathan's article how Trolls Work at how

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Speaker 1: stuff works dot com. For more on this and thousands

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Speaker 1: of other topics, visit how stuff works dot com. H