WEBVTT - AI Anxiety Grows, HP Announces Job Cuts 0:00:02.520 --> 0:00:09.119 Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news from the heart of 0:00:09.160 --> 0:00:14.880 where innovation, money and power collide in Silicon Valley and beyond. 0:00:15.320 --> 0:00:19.639 This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and Ed. 0:00:19.720 --> 0:00:35.120 Lovelowe Hyde. 0:00:36.560 --> 0:00:40.320 And I'm Jackie Devallis in San Francisco. This is Bloomberg Technology. 0:00:40.120 --> 0:00:42.839 Coming up the NASDAK trying to shake off what is 0:00:42.880 --> 0:00:46.360 the worst week in almost four months. Earnings failed to 0:00:46.440 --> 0:00:49.040 inspire in AI, anxieties grow. We dig into all angles, 0:00:49.200 --> 0:00:50.639 plus job cuts back. 0:00:50.440 --> 0:00:51.040 In big tech. 0:00:51.080 --> 0:00:53.480 We hear from the CEO of HP after the company 0:00:53.479 --> 0:00:57.200 announced further head count reductions and Bitcoin down twenty five 0:00:57.240 --> 0:00:59.640 percent from all time highs. We get into the worsening 0:00:59.680 --> 0:01:01.800 crypto route in the way of President Trump's the latest 0:01:01.840 --> 0:01:04.600 Taro threats and a key hack. But first we check 0:01:04.640 --> 0:01:07.440 in on these markets and the NASTAC actually trying to 0:01:07.440 --> 0:01:10.080 shake off what has been a dismal week. We're off 0:01:10.640 --> 0:01:14.280 now higher by three quarters percent on the week, down 0:01:14.319 --> 0:01:16.920 about five and that's as we see over all, the 0:01:17.000 --> 0:01:20.360 anxieties build about what the political consequences are on AI, 0:01:20.720 --> 0:01:23.280 on tarifs from China, and more broadly, whether or not 0:01:23.319 --> 0:01:25.800 we can see those exports going into the broader world 0:01:25.840 --> 0:01:28.560 and into allies as well. We focus in on Bitcoin, 0:01:28.600 --> 0:01:31.280 off by four ten percent, the eighty three thousand numbers, 0:01:31.280 --> 0:01:33.360 where we've got to be focusing on. Really we've come 0:01:33.480 --> 0:01:35.759 well off of those highs. We're worried about the macro, 0:01:35.800 --> 0:01:38.320 We're worried about taris. We're also worried about certain hacks 0:01:38.360 --> 0:01:40.959 and indeed, what's happening with mean coins over in Argentina. 0:01:40.959 --> 0:01:42.520 We'll dig into that in a moment. Move on to 0:01:42.560 --> 0:01:46.320 what's happening in one of the biggest points drags throughout 0:01:46.319 --> 0:01:48.640 the week it has been in Vidia. We are down 0:01:48.800 --> 0:01:51.760 eight point six percent. That is significant when you've got 0:01:51.760 --> 0:01:53.400 a more than three trillion dollar. 0:01:53.200 --> 0:01:54.720 Market capitalization on a stock. 0:01:54.960 --> 0:01:58.400 We've fallen as we see Jenson Wang unable to reinspire, 0:01:58.520 --> 0:02:01.480 reinvigorate the idea that this is a company that is 0:02:01.520 --> 0:02:04.480 the only one you need to really bear fruit for 0:02:04.520 --> 0:02:07.040 the generative AI transition, Jackie. And a lot of that 0:02:07.080 --> 0:02:08.600 has political consequences. 0:02:09.639 --> 0:02:12.840 Let's get to those political anxieties now. The UK is 0:02:12.840 --> 0:02:15.840 seeking a narrow trade agreement with the US focused on 0:02:15.880 --> 0:02:20.160 technology and AI rather than a full free trade deal. 0:02:20.480 --> 0:02:23.840 Trump's willingness to open a trade dialogue marks a breakthrough 0:02:23.880 --> 0:02:26.600 for the UK, which has pursued deeper ties with the 0:02:26.720 --> 0:02:30.120 US since voting to exit the European Union in twenty sixteen. 0:02:30.400 --> 0:02:33.560 Bloomberg's Mike Shepherd joins US. Now, Mike, this isn't the 0:02:33.600 --> 0:02:36.639 deal that people were expecting, but it has big implications 0:02:36.639 --> 0:02:37.520 for AI. 0:02:37.639 --> 0:02:42.040 What are they Well, it really does, Jackie, because Donald 0:02:42.040 --> 0:02:46.360 Trump has made AI and US dominance in this field 0:02:46.840 --> 0:02:50.200 a big priority. And we saw this right from the start. 0:02:50.360 --> 0:02:55.919 As he took office. He signed executive orders essentially insisting 0:02:56.320 --> 0:02:59.120 that the US find a way in craft policies that 0:02:59.200 --> 0:03:04.079 would spearhead innovation and that would clear clunky regulations out 0:03:04.120 --> 0:03:07.680 of the way. And he also had this big meeting 0:03:07.760 --> 0:03:11.280 in the Oval Office where Sam Altman and Masseo Sheisan 0:03:11.440 --> 0:03:15.160 and Larry Ellison all came together to unveil the Stargate 0:03:15.240 --> 0:03:19.680 project of investments in data centers that would help propel 0:03:20.160 --> 0:03:23.920 this bid for US dominance in the area. Now, the 0:03:24.000 --> 0:03:27.000 UK matters because what they are offering is in a 0:03:27.040 --> 0:03:32.320 way a European to hold for the US if the 0:03:32.440 --> 0:03:36.880 US companies like Microsoft and Amazon and other hyperscalers want 0:03:36.960 --> 0:03:40.640 data centers in Europe, but don't want those PESKYU regulations. 0:03:40.920 --> 0:03:43.800 The UK could be a good alternative, and that was 0:03:43.880 --> 0:03:47.400 what Starmer was in essence pitching. Now to be sure 0:03:47.440 --> 0:03:50.240 is that, look, these discussions are in the early stages. 0:03:50.280 --> 0:03:52.760 There's a lot that could go wrong, and we could 0:03:52.760 --> 0:03:56.040 see some friction emerge, including over the question of online 0:03:56.080 --> 0:03:59.440 content moderation. That was a little bit of a clash 0:03:59.520 --> 0:04:04.200 yesterday between jd Vance and Starmer yesterday. But we'll want 0:04:04.200 --> 0:04:06.200 to watch this space for sure, Mike. 0:04:06.560 --> 0:04:10.400 The broader context is as we have CEO after CEO 0:04:10.600 --> 0:04:13.840 start to speak out about potential restrictions on exports of 0:04:13.920 --> 0:04:15.960 AI and chips, and particularly we think of the AI 0:04:16.040 --> 0:04:19.320 diffusion rule. I spoke with Andy Jasse, the CEO of Amazon, 0:04:19.400 --> 0:04:21.640 just yesterday. We were going to get into all of that. 0:04:21.680 --> 0:04:22.560 But I'm interested in. 0:04:22.480 --> 0:04:27.240 Your take more broadly on how this UK dialogue fits 0:04:27.279 --> 0:04:30.880 in with what these corporate giants are currently telling the 0:04:30.920 --> 0:04:32.120 Trump administration to do. 0:04:33.520 --> 0:04:33.760 Well. 0:04:33.800 --> 0:04:37.080 In a way, the AI diffusion rule would put the 0:04:37.200 --> 0:04:40.640 UK in the catbird. See when it comes to getting 0:04:40.760 --> 0:04:44.120 access to that kind of investment abroad from the big 0:04:44.320 --> 0:04:47.159 US companies and from other companies, they would say, hey, look, 0:04:47.560 --> 0:04:50.560 we will be in that first tier of access under 0:04:50.600 --> 0:04:53.400 this AI diffusion rule and to catch viewers up. The 0:04:53.400 --> 0:04:56.599 air diffusion Rule sets up three categories of access to 0:04:56.680 --> 0:05:00.440 advanced AI chips. The last categories US average areas like 0:05:00.520 --> 0:05:03.799 Russia and China. In the middle are most countries, including 0:05:03.839 --> 0:05:07.840 a number of US allies like Saudi Arabia, Switzerland, the UAE, 0:05:08.360 --> 0:05:10.560 where we still do a fair amount of business. The 0:05:10.600 --> 0:05:13.920 first tier is a rarefied group of very close allies 0:05:13.960 --> 0:05:17.200 like France and like the UK. Now, the difference is 0:05:17.240 --> 0:05:21.640 that the UK would allow US companies to put plants 0:05:21.680 --> 0:05:26.000 and facilities there but without as many regulations, and when 0:05:26.000 --> 0:05:28.359 it comes to being able to buy chips in the 0:05:28.480 --> 0:05:30.839 UK would be a lot easier because they would have 0:05:30.920 --> 0:05:34.880 that velvet rope like access to make those purchases without 0:05:34.920 --> 0:05:37.000 too many restrictions from the US government. 0:05:37.400 --> 0:05:40.760 Mike schepperd breaking down the political context of all of this. 0:05:41.040 --> 0:05:43.440 Let's get into the investor context now. They two is 0:05:43.480 --> 0:05:45.839 with US Chief Investment Officer at at Alien Spernstein. 0:05:46.120 --> 0:05:48.680 Of course we're talking the impact of tariffs. 0:05:48.720 --> 0:05:51.560 We're talking about tech sex to an AI, the growth 0:05:51.640 --> 0:05:53.640 narrative that currently is questioned. 0:05:54.279 --> 0:05:56.120 Have you been questioning it more this week. 0:05:57.880 --> 0:06:02.640 We always question, obviously, especially since we have had two 0:06:02.720 --> 0:06:06.440 years of you know, straight up so but I think 0:06:06.560 --> 0:06:08.240 you know, a lot has happened, and there's sort of 0:06:08.240 --> 0:06:11.599 a fair amount of volatility in the market because of 0:06:11.640 --> 0:06:12.120 a lot of the. 0:06:12.080 --> 0:06:13.520 Headline west that you just mentioned. 0:06:13.800 --> 0:06:17.039 But that said, we actually remain quite constructive still in 0:06:17.120 --> 0:06:19.880 terms of the backdrop of what's needed to build out 0:06:19.960 --> 0:06:22.919 for the future of AI. So, yes, we did question, 0:06:23.240 --> 0:06:26.600 and we always do, but based on fundamental research, we're 0:06:26.600 --> 0:06:28.280 actually quite constructive on the outlook. 0:06:28.279 --> 0:06:31.120 Skip l Let's talk about one of the things that 0:06:31.240 --> 0:06:33.719 was really hanging over a lot of the tech giants 0:06:33.760 --> 0:06:36.440 that have reported in recent weeks and in video. 0:06:36.240 --> 0:06:37.640 As well, that was Deep Seek. 0:06:37.960 --> 0:06:40.240 It caused a lot of concerns about whether we would 0:06:40.360 --> 0:06:42.919 need any of these chips, as many of them to 0:06:42.960 --> 0:06:46.240 begin with, How do you feel about that deep Seak 0:06:46.279 --> 0:06:49.000 concern after seeing in videos report this week? 0:06:50.400 --> 0:06:53.440 So when the two parts to it, when we think 0:06:53.440 --> 0:06:56.880 about deep Seek, what we believe is that deep Seek actually, 0:06:57.000 --> 0:06:59.360 rather than just say, oh, this is a model that 0:06:59.400 --> 0:07:03.640 requires a few million dollars, this is actually a step 0:07:03.680 --> 0:07:07.479 function and inflection point in the adoption of inferencing, which 0:07:07.600 --> 0:07:12.120 inherently is actually far more compute intensive than all previous models, 0:07:12.480 --> 0:07:15.600 because what deep seak is is a reasoning model. In 0:07:15.640 --> 0:07:18.520 simple terms, it just you ask a question. It will 0:07:18.560 --> 0:07:21.560 take longer for an AI to answer, but it will 0:07:21.560 --> 0:07:24.360 give you much better answer after they thought about it. 0:07:24.680 --> 0:07:25.480 So what we. 0:07:25.480 --> 0:07:29.119 Think is that with deep seek and with the open 0:07:29.160 --> 0:07:33.520 ayes or one pro that's out there, we're stepping into 0:07:34.040 --> 0:07:37.280 test time scaling, which is reasoning model, and both of 0:07:37.320 --> 0:07:41.040 those are inherently far more computing intensive, and the more 0:07:41.080 --> 0:07:44.440 the adoption of inferencing, the more the need for compute. 0:07:44.560 --> 0:07:47.280 So that's one when we think about deep Seek, rather 0:07:47.360 --> 0:07:50.280 than just reading the headline, we actually got more constructive 0:07:50.360 --> 0:07:52.840 because of inferencing. And then when we look at the 0:07:52.840 --> 0:07:56.200 immediate's results. We're not here to comment on individual stock obviously, 0:07:56.560 --> 0:07:59.000 but what we are really seeing is that we're still 0:07:59.040 --> 0:08:03.040 at the very early state of adopting RAX scale compute, 0:08:03.240 --> 0:08:06.480 which is a huge system level compute. It's very hard 0:08:06.480 --> 0:08:09.120 to do, it would take time to do, and they're 0:08:09.160 --> 0:08:11.280 still in a ramping phase, but we are on track. 0:08:11.680 --> 0:08:14.640 So despite a lot of the headline noise, we remain 0:08:14.720 --> 0:08:16.800 constructive based on these two things. 0:08:17.800 --> 0:08:20.440 One sort of fly in the ointment that I think 0:08:20.520 --> 0:08:23.560 Jensen Voun wasn't really able to satisfy the investor base 0:08:23.640 --> 0:08:28.600 on was ultimately China exposure for more broadly political implications 0:08:28.640 --> 0:08:31.520 to getting his technology out even to allies. This is 0:08:31.520 --> 0:08:33.560 something Microsoft then went out and put out a note 0:08:33.559 --> 0:08:37.280 Brad Smith writing to the Trump administration saying please reverse 0:08:37.320 --> 0:08:39.520 the AI diffusion role. I got to speak with Andy 0:08:39.559 --> 0:08:41.800 Jase Ramazon yesterday about it, just haven't listened to what 0:08:41.840 --> 0:08:43.080 he said. 0:08:43.360 --> 0:08:45.960 I don't know how this administration feels about it, but 0:08:46.160 --> 0:08:49.000 I would say that we share the concern that it 0:08:49.000 --> 0:08:52.800 has limitations on certain countries who are natural allies of 0:08:52.840 --> 0:08:56.280 the US who just to be able to do their business, 0:08:56.360 --> 0:08:58.320 and those companies to be able to get done what 0:08:58.320 --> 0:08:59.960 they want to get done. On top of these technolo 0:09:00.240 --> 0:09:03.760 infrastructure platforms like AWS, they're going to need more chips 0:09:03.840 --> 0:09:06.320 and so I think if we don't do it, we're 0:09:06.320 --> 0:09:08.880 going to basically give up that business. 0:09:09.840 --> 0:09:12.480 AWS doesn't have a big knock from his perspective in 0:09:12.559 --> 0:09:15.480 terms of worrying about revenue, But more broadly, are you 0:09:15.559 --> 0:09:18.920 optimistic that we're going to get a more business friendly 0:09:19.679 --> 0:09:23.120 federal government that's going to allow for easier exports. So 0:09:23.200 --> 0:09:26.320 does not that matter in your thesis for future growth? 0:09:27.679 --> 0:09:31.079 Certainly that's a consideration. In fact, I think a lot 0:09:31.080 --> 0:09:34.280 of these political headline is precisely the reason that you're 0:09:34.320 --> 0:09:35.720 seeing these gyrations. 0:09:35.360 --> 0:09:36.160 In the marketplace. 0:09:36.200 --> 0:09:39.160 The volatility is high, but when we just look at 0:09:39.160 --> 0:09:41.800 the fundamental level, and if you look at these giants, 0:09:41.880 --> 0:09:44.640 the tech giants and the amount of spending that they 0:09:44.679 --> 0:09:47.240 are actually doing in the US and now I would 0:09:47.280 --> 0:09:50.960 put China almost separately as their own ecosystem, that what 0:09:51.040 --> 0:09:54.760 they're trying to do. I do think despite the volatility 0:09:54.800 --> 0:09:57.600 we're seeing in the market, this actually inmport demand even 0:09:57.640 --> 0:09:59.480 when we just look at the US what we need 0:09:59.520 --> 0:10:03.000 to do and how constrained we still are on the 0:10:03.040 --> 0:10:07.080 supply side. In fact, so we actually think, yeah, headline aside, 0:10:07.160 --> 0:10:08.040 we still feel fun. 0:10:09.000 --> 0:10:11.280 Let's talk about where that demand comes from as well. 0:10:11.320 --> 0:10:14.040 In some of these AI applications, A big one is agents, 0:10:14.080 --> 0:10:16.720 and we heard from Salesforce earlier this week that it 0:10:16.760 --> 0:10:19.320 wasn't seeing the kind of demand that really wanted to see. 0:10:19.320 --> 0:10:21.760 I know you can't talk about specific stocks, but AI 0:10:21.880 --> 0:10:24.880 agents overall have been a big part of the narrative 0:10:24.920 --> 0:10:27.120 in terms of what's going to drive the AI rally forward. 0:10:27.200 --> 0:10:30.360 Are you concerned at all about that adoption really sticking 0:10:30.400 --> 0:10:31.640 over the next coming months. 0:10:32.640 --> 0:10:35.680 I think when we think about a huge technology change 0:10:35.800 --> 0:10:39.319 and then innovations such as this, when this transformation, though 0:10:39.320 --> 0:10:41.280 perhaps it would take a little bit time for it 0:10:41.360 --> 0:10:44.240 to actually play out. But that said, you know things 0:10:44.240 --> 0:10:47.360 are constantly evolving. Deep Seek, you know that just came 0:10:47.400 --> 0:10:50.160 out of nowhere right took us by surprise, and that 0:10:50.240 --> 0:10:54.120 rocked an inflection point in our opinion in inferencing, and 0:10:54.480 --> 0:10:58.440 aside from AI agents, I certainly think we're seeing adoption broadly. 0:10:58.720 --> 0:11:00.520 This is in fact one of the fast this adoption 0:11:00.559 --> 0:11:03.280 that we're seeing at the enterprise level. It will have 0:11:03.440 --> 0:11:08.120 huge disruptive impact at the enterprise it infrastructure. And on 0:11:08.160 --> 0:11:10.480 top of that, what we are also looking at is 0:11:10.520 --> 0:11:12.680 the new form factor that will be coming out. A 0:11:12.720 --> 0:11:15.920 lot of companies are exploring automation and humanoid and the 0:11:16.000 --> 0:11:18.960 Internet of things and where AI will play a huge 0:11:19.080 --> 0:11:22.599 part of it. So if we actually in fact a 0:11:22.679 --> 0:11:26.960 Deepseek in our opinion marketing inflection in adoptional inferencing, and 0:11:27.000 --> 0:11:29.040 we're going to see a lot more adoption going forward, 0:11:29.360 --> 0:11:31.720 this will be an important year from a lot of 0:11:31.760 --> 0:11:35.160 companies for us to see what's going to happen. But 0:11:35.360 --> 0:11:38.160 we are optimistic that we will see more than what's 0:11:38.200 --> 0:11:41.160 currently publicly known in the market effect. 0:11:41.280 --> 0:11:42.400 I mean, look at the response to some of the 0:11:42.480 --> 0:11:44.559 Chinese giants to deep Sea. Can you have Ali Baba 0:11:44.640 --> 0:11:46.920 committing so much money? A Tencent coming out with its 0:11:46.960 --> 0:11:48.880 latest model over in China. But I want to bring 0:11:48.960 --> 0:11:50.680 it back here to us just to finish the soft 0:11:50.720 --> 0:11:55.319 because we started this week questioning capacity when Microsoft had 0:11:55.360 --> 0:11:57.880 that TD cow knowne out and everyone's wondering about whe 0:11:57.880 --> 0:12:00.960 they're actually cutting some of their NASA and data centers. 0:12:01.320 --> 0:12:03.960 More broadly, how what gives you the confidence to say 0:12:03.960 --> 0:12:06.199 that capacity really is going to be built out here 0:12:06.200 --> 0:12:06.760 in the US. 0:12:07.920 --> 0:12:10.920 We're early and we're capacity constrained. While a lot of 0:12:10.920 --> 0:12:14.240 the attention has been focused on, you know, Microsoft potentially 0:12:14.280 --> 0:12:16.320 cutting and we're not here to comment, we don't know. 0:12:16.720 --> 0:12:19.600 But that said, let's think about Stargate and let's think 0:12:19.600 --> 0:12:22.040 about Coal week. There are the names that it's not 0:12:22.120 --> 0:12:24.440 everyday names that we are still talking about yet in 0:12:24.440 --> 0:12:27.679 the public arena, and those are companies still building out. 0:12:28.080 --> 0:12:31.560 So and if we just focus on where we are 0:12:31.600 --> 0:12:34.520 in the buildout cycle. How constrained we are, and let's 0:12:34.520 --> 0:12:37.080 not forget that we are still at the very beginning 0:12:37.120 --> 0:12:39.080 of a product cycle that the media is trying to 0:12:39.120 --> 0:12:42.360 roll out the you know, building out entire data center 0:12:42.559 --> 0:12:46.880 with this massive, scaled compute. We're so early, so we 0:12:47.000 --> 0:12:50.120 actually we feel despite all the headline, we. 0:12:50.080 --> 0:12:50.719 Feel pretty good. 0:12:50.760 --> 0:12:54.920 Actually, you know, volatility is part of the market, and 0:12:54.960 --> 0:12:57.920 I think with all the headline at the policy level, 0:12:58.480 --> 0:13:01.000 this healthy a theater in the market. 0:13:01.280 --> 0:13:05.560 So that's slay too. From Alliance Spurnstein, thanks for joining us. 0:13:05.960 --> 0:13:09.280 Coming up, we'll hear from HP CEO and Rigue Torres 0:13:09.559 --> 0:13:13.040 as the company plans to slash over one thousand jobs. 0:13:13.400 --> 0:13:14.760 This is Bloomberg. 0:13:25.600 --> 0:13:27.400 Key earnings after the bell, and we dig into the 0:13:27.440 --> 0:13:29.880 reaction today on the street, we're seeing Dell n HP 0:13:30.080 --> 0:13:33.280 under pressure, significant pressure off by more than five percent 0:13:33.320 --> 0:13:36.280 for Dell, once again questioning long term margins that have 0:13:36.320 --> 0:13:39.240 been ultimately eroded a little bit as they see in video, 0:13:39.320 --> 0:13:40.880 take more and more of the line's share of how 0:13:40.920 --> 0:13:43.440 they get their servers into the market. PC is still 0:13:43.480 --> 0:13:46.160 under pressure there, but ultimately we are spending in the 0:13:46.200 --> 0:13:50.120 forward looking future still ramp up, but we're worrying about 0:13:50.160 --> 0:13:53.319 the near term guidance for this particular company, saying with HP, 0:13:53.640 --> 0:13:57.079 it's forward guidance once again under pressure from a margin perspective. 0:13:57.240 --> 0:13:59.319 This is they try to strip out costs by reducing 0:13:59.400 --> 0:14:02.400 yet more. They've already been laying off seven thousand. Now 0:14:02.400 --> 0:14:05.400 they could get rid of another one to two thousand 0:14:05.480 --> 0:14:09.000 roles as they reorientate the supply chain and they reorientate 0:14:09.120 --> 0:14:12.080 into AI. We actually got to speak with the CEO HP, 0:14:12.920 --> 0:14:14.920 Enrique Laurres, just hey, what we had to say. 0:14:15.880 --> 0:14:18.559 Moving manufacturing into the years is one of the scenarios 0:14:18.600 --> 0:14:21.800 that we are contemplating. We haven't made any decisions yet. 0:14:22.040 --> 0:14:24.280 Is not only the assembly that we will be doing. 0:14:24.680 --> 0:14:28.560 Is what will it take to bring all the different components, 0:14:28.680 --> 0:14:31.320 all the different suppliers that we have and have the 0:14:31.440 --> 0:14:34.600 manufacturer here and this is going to be a much 0:14:34.800 --> 0:14:37.280 longer process and it's part of the evaluation that we 0:14:37.320 --> 0:14:37.720 are doing. 0:14:40.120 --> 0:14:43.480 That was HP CEO and Rique Lawres. Now let's take 0:14:43.480 --> 0:14:46.360 a look at Tesla. Shares are down for the seventh 0:14:46.400 --> 0:14:49.360 straight day, the longest streak in the red and nearly 0:14:49.400 --> 0:14:52.720 a year week sales have dragged Tesla stuck down about 0:14:52.760 --> 0:14:56.160 forty percent from its late twenty twenty four high. Bloomberg's 0:14:56.200 --> 0:15:00.720 David Welsh joins us. Now, David Tesla's run has really 0:15:00.760 --> 0:15:04.600 been driven just as much from investoring zuberants as much 0:15:04.600 --> 0:15:06.760 as fundamentals. But why don't you walk us through what 0:15:06.800 --> 0:15:09.400 we know about those fundamentals right now? 0:15:11.120 --> 0:15:11.320 Yeah? 0:15:11.360 --> 0:15:14.160 So what drove it up? I think the past year 0:15:14.240 --> 0:15:16.520 was a lot of hype but also a lot of 0:15:16.560 --> 0:15:20.080 interest in their AI and autonomous vehicle plans that Elon 0:15:20.200 --> 0:15:23.520 Musk has. He's made a lot of hay out of that, 0:15:23.680 --> 0:15:26.280 and they did have a demo of the vehicle, and 0:15:26.320 --> 0:15:29.760 I think that generated excitement. I think investors by and 0:15:29.800 --> 0:15:32.640 large are looking at their EV business as maybe it's 0:15:32.720 --> 0:15:35.000 capped out for a bit. The only new vehicle coming 0:15:35.360 --> 0:15:37.440 would be a model TO which could do some volume 0:15:37.440 --> 0:15:39.160 because it's cheap, but it's going to be a lower 0:15:39.240 --> 0:15:42.600 margin vehicle, and in a lot of markets, particular Europe, 0:15:42.600 --> 0:15:44.080 as we saw the other day, they're under a lot 0:15:44.120 --> 0:15:47.040 of pressure. There are some consumers who don't like Elon 0:15:47.120 --> 0:15:50.200 Musk's political position now that he's de facto part of 0:15:50.240 --> 0:15:54.040 the Trump administration, and I think that's hurting their sales. 0:15:54.160 --> 0:15:57.080 There's also a lot more competition with other EV companies. 0:15:57.080 --> 0:15:59.440 I think General Motors, I think Hundai and Kia are 0:15:59.480 --> 0:16:01.800 gaining in the US, and I think you're seeing some 0:16:01.840 --> 0:16:05.000 of that in other markets as well, where that where 0:16:05.000 --> 0:16:08.680 European automakers have more evs, so they've got more competition there. 0:16:09.440 --> 0:16:11.400 And the other part of this that we really haven't 0:16:11.400 --> 0:16:13.880 talked about is EV credits. Tesla's made a lot of 0:16:13.960 --> 0:16:16.560 money on those over the years. If the Trump administration 0:16:17.600 --> 0:16:21.840 does water down the greenhouse gas and few economy rules 0:16:21.880 --> 0:16:25.320 that make automakers buy EED credits from Tesla, and Donald 0:16:25.360 --> 0:16:28.520 Trump has talked about that, there is a proposal from 0:16:28.560 --> 0:16:32.520 Senator Moreno on that that would lower those standards. That's 0:16:32.600 --> 0:16:36.120 less income in the auto business selling credits that Tesla 0:16:36.200 --> 0:16:39.520 has a lot of pressure here and we don't have 0:16:39.560 --> 0:16:42.320 really a catalyst in the way of autonomous vehicles that's 0:16:42.320 --> 0:16:43.880 obvious yet that'll push it back up. 0:16:44.000 --> 0:16:46.760 I mean, the chees training a little bit higher today 0:16:47.160 --> 0:16:49.320 as maybe the micro picture turns a little bit higher 0:16:49.320 --> 0:16:51.960 for the broader market, David, But indeed it has been 0:16:52.000 --> 0:16:54.280 off by more than fourteen percent over the course of 0:16:54.280 --> 0:16:56.760 this week, the worst week since October twenty twenty three. 0:16:57.040 --> 0:16:59.000 But as we note with this company, as we do 0:16:59.120 --> 0:17:02.680 so often, it's not often fundamentally driven. A lot of 0:17:02.680 --> 0:17:05.520 this even with earnings that come out that disappoint the 0:17:05.560 --> 0:17:08.160 exuberance that comes to me La must gets the retail 0:17:08.200 --> 0:17:11.679 investors back in and makes institution investors hold. So anything 0:17:11.680 --> 0:17:15.320 that makes you signal that this is something long term shifting, 0:17:15.359 --> 0:17:17.600 that February numbers will be as bad in Europe and 0:17:17.600 --> 0:17:20.000 that ultimately the shares will continue to reflect on a 0:17:20.040 --> 0:17:21.240 fundamental basis. 0:17:23.000 --> 0:17:26.679 Yeah, I think the increased competition and a bit of 0:17:26.720 --> 0:17:30.160 declining growth in the EB market, particularly in the US, 0:17:30.200 --> 0:17:33.000 but other places as well. There's still growth, it's just 0:17:33.040 --> 0:17:36.520 not as fast and you have more competition. So I 0:17:36.560 --> 0:17:39.880 think as long as investors are focused more on Tesla's 0:17:39.920 --> 0:17:42.959 EV sales and the ability to generate cash and earnings 0:17:43.000 --> 0:17:45.119 from that, you're going to have pressure on the stock. 0:17:46.680 --> 0:17:51.679 Once we actually see some more progress with his robot taxis, 0:17:51.720 --> 0:17:54.880 which is really what drove the last rally, and it's 0:17:54.920 --> 0:17:57.320 apparent that those vehicles are going to be ready, they're 0:17:57.359 --> 0:17:59.720 going to be working, they're going to be generating revenue. 0:18:00.000 --> 0:18:03.800 Test are always hastaays with new technologies that I think 0:18:03.800 --> 0:18:05.879 would rarely start, but right now I think it is. 0:18:06.480 --> 0:18:09.360 It's trading on what's happening with their electric vehicle business 0:18:09.440 --> 0:18:13.919 and that on the hype and an enthusiasm over robot taxis. 0:18:14.119 --> 0:18:17.280 To be fair, analyst still pretty enthusiastic. Thirty two buys 0:18:17.520 --> 0:18:29.320 thirteen cells. David Welch, thanks so much. Apollo Global Management 0:18:29.400 --> 0:18:31.399 is in talks to lead a roughly thirty five billion 0:18:31.440 --> 0:18:34.959 dollar financing package for Meta to help develop data centers 0:18:34.960 --> 0:18:35.720 in the United States. 0:18:35.800 --> 0:18:36.720 All according to sources. 0:18:36.720 --> 0:18:39.000 Now, the funding conversations are on an early stage and 0:18:39.040 --> 0:18:40.800 there's no guarantee a deal will be complete. 0:18:40.920 --> 0:18:41.800 Pretty big Intelligence. 0:18:41.800 --> 0:18:44.040 Senior analyst Mandy at Seeing joins us for more and 0:18:44.080 --> 0:18:47.040 it's more and more interesting. In fact, we're just before 0:18:47.080 --> 0:18:49.160 you come to you, Mandy, We've got to go into 0:18:49.160 --> 0:18:54.280 the White House where President Trump is indeed welcoming Ukrainian 0:18:54.440 --> 0:18:57.960 leader Rodom Zelensky to the White House. They were going 0:18:58.000 --> 0:19:01.919 into behind closed doors meetings lunch and there will be 0:19:01.920 --> 0:19:05.080 a press conference at one pm New York Times plenty 0:19:05.119 --> 0:19:09.159 to discuss when it comes to rere minerals. But we 0:19:09.240 --> 0:19:12.320 bring it back from the White House from Washington and politics. 0:19:12.600 --> 0:19:15.800 Back to what's happening from a data center perspective across 0:19:15.840 --> 0:19:18.960 the United States, be Meaga Intelligence senior analyst, man needs saying, Manny, 0:19:19.200 --> 0:19:21.120 tell us about how we're going to see these more 0:19:21.160 --> 0:19:25.239 novel financing arrangements happen. While even metas committing more than 0:19:25.280 --> 0:19:27.280 sixty five billion dollars to AI instructure. 0:19:28.320 --> 0:19:31.560 Yeah, and apparently you know, sixty five billion dollars may 0:19:31.600 --> 0:19:34.440 not be enough in terms of the ambitions that META 0:19:34.520 --> 0:19:37.880 has when it comes to, you know, adding data center capacity. 0:19:38.240 --> 0:19:41.000 I mean, look, when it comes to these AI data centers, 0:19:41.040 --> 0:19:44.080 you're not just talking about you know, procuring the chips. 0:19:44.160 --> 0:19:47.159 You have to think in terms of, you know, getting 0:19:47.160 --> 0:19:52.440 a land then you know, power requirements, transmission lines, cooling. 0:19:52.680 --> 0:19:56.560 There are so many things that the hyperscalers, even though 0:19:56.560 --> 0:19:59.960 they operate at pretty big scale, haven't reruly taught about 0:20:00.080 --> 0:20:03.280 out it from that perspective. And I think that's where 0:20:04.560 --> 0:20:07.760 a company like Apollo maybe a good partner in terms 0:20:07.760 --> 0:20:10.159 of just making sure they get all the help they 0:20:10.200 --> 0:20:12.920 need in terms of the scale of these data centers. 0:20:12.960 --> 0:20:16.439 And I think power is a big constraint right now, 0:20:16.840 --> 0:20:20.040 and all these companies are trying to figure out what 0:20:20.320 --> 0:20:22.359 is it that they need help with when it comes 0:20:22.359 --> 0:20:23.119 to getting. 0:20:22.880 --> 0:20:26.840 The power precisely what Andy Jesse was so concerned about 0:20:26.880 --> 0:20:30.119 yesterday as well. From Amazon's perspective, Bluemeg Intelligence senior analyst 0:20:30.119 --> 0:20:33.760 Man Leap saying, thanks so much. Now let's move straight 0:20:33.840 --> 0:20:36.440 to open ai, which has just rolled out an early 0:20:36.560 --> 0:20:39.720 version of a new AI model called GPT four point 0:20:39.760 --> 0:20:43.240 five to select users. This after hitting stumbling rocks and 0:20:43.240 --> 0:20:45.840 developing the AI system last year, Let's get to it. 0:20:46.080 --> 0:20:49.160 Rachel Metz and Sam Altman a busy man. 0:20:49.280 --> 0:20:51.320 He's just become a father for the first time, and 0:20:51.320 --> 0:20:53.760 then he also manages to post on x about the 0:20:53.800 --> 0:20:56.720