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Speaker 1: He was the dark horse candidate who became Pope. Cardinal

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Speaker 1: Robert Privost is now Leo the fourteenth. On this week's show,

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Speaker 1: we take him behind the scenes of the conclave that

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Speaker 1: elected the first American pope with a Vatican expert and

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Speaker 1: the conclave crew explains what this pope could do next.

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Speaker 1: Come on, I'm raim An Arroyo. Welcome to Royal Grande Gho.

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Speaker 1: Subscribe and turn those notifications on. I don't want you

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Speaker 1: to miss an episode or any of the specials we

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Speaker 1: have come in.

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Speaker 2: We've got a lot coming your way.

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Speaker 1: The world was stunned when the first American Pope, Leo

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Speaker 1: the fourteenth appeared on the Lojia at Saint Peter's. He

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Speaker 1: was not among the top candidates going into the conclave.

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Speaker 3: For the moments that may have led to his election.

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Speaker 3: I'm joined now by Vaticanista, co author of the College

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Speaker 3: of Cardinals Reports, one of the best Vatican journalists in

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Speaker 3: the city, Diane Montga. Diane, thank you so much for

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Speaker 3: being here. Tell me about the state of this College

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Speaker 3: of Cardinals before they went into the conflict. What were

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Speaker 3: their biggest concerns, What were they telling?

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Speaker 4: Well, I think that the biggest well, one of the

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Speaker 4: biggest concerns actually was that we did they didn't know

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Speaker 4: one another. So you know, the viewers should keep in

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Speaker 4: mind that Pope Francis had appointed most of the cardinals

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Speaker 4: in his twelve year pontificate. He appointed them from countries

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Speaker 4: all over the world, not the traditional seas like perhaps

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Speaker 4: Milan or Los Angeles, but from many unknown places. So really,

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Speaker 4: going in, you had many cardinals who had recently been

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Speaker 4: appointed that this was their first conclave and they didn't

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Speaker 4: really know one another.

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Speaker 3: Tell me about the progressive and traditional cardinal candidates going in, yeah,

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Speaker 3: I mean, you know, lay out who the who the

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Speaker 3: main candidates were of each block. I hate the word

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Speaker 3: conservative and liberal, their progressives in their traditional they all

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Speaker 3: basically believe the same thing. It's just really tonality and

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Speaker 3: what they mean to do within the church.

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Speaker 4: Yes, well, I mean, clearly, going in, I would say

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Speaker 4: that the leading progressive candidate was probably the former Vatican

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Speaker 4: Secretary of State, Cardinal Pietro Perolin. And he in fact

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Speaker 4: because the Dean of the College of Cardinals, Cardinal Rey

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Speaker 4: was I believe he's over ninety years old, so he

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Speaker 4: couldn't actually enter the conclave. So you had Cardinal Perolin

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Speaker 4: going in as not only the leading candidate for the left,

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Speaker 4: but also as running the conclave itself. You had other

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Speaker 4: names on the left mentioned like the Filipino cardinal Cardinal Tagle.

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Speaker 4: You had Cardinal Aveline from France who was among the

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Speaker 4: leading candidates for the left. You had someone like Cardinal

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Speaker 4: Zupi who perhaps you know, it was said he didn't

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Speaker 4: have too much of a chance, but he's he's if

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Speaker 4: they wanted to return the pontificate to Italy, he may

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Speaker 4: have been seen as a leading candidate.

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Speaker 3: And I know traditionalists wanted Cardinal Erdo, Cardinal Sarah, but

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Speaker 3: they it looks like those candidacies were never really got

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Speaker 3: off the ground because their numbers were so tiny.

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Speaker 4: Yes, well, I think they had. Actually I think probably

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Speaker 4: what happened was they wanted Erdo. He was sort of

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Speaker 4: their leading candidate. I believe Cardinal Ranji from what I'm hearing,

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Speaker 4: we're seeing perhaps as a as a compromise candidate for

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Speaker 4: the more conservative wing of the college. And then Cardinal

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Speaker 4: Pizzabala was certainly in the running. I have heard quite

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Speaker 4: a bit of what actually went on and how we

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Speaker 4: got prevost, how the voting went if you'd like to, you.

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Speaker 3: Know, yeah, let's get that's our That's called a cliffhanger. Diane.

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Speaker 3: I love that you did that. Okay, let's keep the

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Speaker 3: cliffhanger because I want to build to that. Contrary to

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Speaker 3: the internet, though, there's a couple of storylines we need

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Speaker 3: to blow up that are all over the internet. Yes,

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Speaker 3: the heroic Cardinal Josephson of Hong Kong, ninety four year old,

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Speaker 3: traveled to the conflict, and it was spread about that

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Speaker 3: he had come to raise his against Cardinal Pietro Perline

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Speaker 3: that leading progressive candidate, the Secretary of State Caroline was

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Speaker 3: also the author of the Chinese Vatican deal that Cardinal

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Speaker 3: Zen so abhors. He's watched his people destroyed by it

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Speaker 3: and the faithful in China. But he didn't speak on

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Speaker 3: that issue at the General Congregation. Who did tell us?

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Speaker 5: Who did?

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Speaker 4: Yes? Well, Cardinal Zen first to say, why wouldn't Cardinal

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Speaker 4: En speak about the Vatican China Deal. Why wouldn't he

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Speaker 4: name Cardinal Perlin, which in what he has said publicly,

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Speaker 4: he's done so much damage to the Chinese Church, to

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Speaker 4: Chinese Catholics. Why because if that got back to the CCP,

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Speaker 4: he could potentially have been imprisoned for that.

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Speaker 3: And my.

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Speaker 4: Guesses and my sources say that Cardinal Perolin also knew

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Speaker 4: coming in that Cardinal Zen was not really able to

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Speaker 4: speak against him, because even though you know, even though

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Speaker 4: secrecy surrounds to some extent the gener Congregations and certainly

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Speaker 4: the Conclave, the CCP could have a way to find

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Speaker 4: out through perhaps this cardinal or that cardinal, or even

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Speaker 4: Cardinal Perolin, which if he wished to retaliate, not saying

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Speaker 4: that he would want to do that against Cardinal z En,

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Speaker 4: but if he did, and if he prevented him from

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Speaker 4: being Pope because of it, it certainly was a possibility.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I was told that it was Cardinal Raymond Burke.

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Speaker 3: In the last days of the General Congregation, it fell

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Speaker 3: to him to speak out against the Vatican China deal

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Speaker 3: in Peraline's involvement there, So interesting from what was widely

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Speaker 3: reported and what actually happen.

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Speaker 4: Yes, no, it certainly, and I have heard and have

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Speaker 4: it on very good sources. Then, in fact, Cardinal Raymond

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Speaker 4: Burke did speak up on the last day against Cardinal Peralin,

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Speaker 4: specifically naming him by name, and against the Vatican China

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Speaker 4: secret accord.

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Speaker 3: And then released a transcript of his address, And I

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Speaker 3: mean mostly it mostly concerned his focus on Pope Francis's

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Speaker 3: democratization of the church, this cinidality model, but the new pope.

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Speaker 3: Interestingly enough, he mentioned cinidality in those general congregations when

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Speaker 3: Parolene didn't. Do you think that was deliberate?

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Speaker 4: Huh, that's a good question. It seems to me in

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Speaker 4: these initial days that Pope Leo the fourteenth, previously Cardinal Prevost,

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Speaker 4: has been extremely good at unifying everyone. He's speaking of

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Speaker 4: Pope Francis, he's quoting him, but not quotes that would

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Speaker 4: bother more traditional Catholics. He's speaking about snidality, but we

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Speaker 4: have to wait to see what he means by cinidality.

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Speaker 4: This is a new pontificate. He's certainly a very different

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Speaker 4: man in terms of his temperament, the way he's dressing,

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Speaker 4: the way he's acting. The blessing we just had, and

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Speaker 4: maybe you'll want to get to this, but he had

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Speaker 4: an audience with journalists today. He gave the bless He

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Speaker 4: gave a blessing in Latin to the journalists at the

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Speaker 4: end which twelve years ago, Pope Francis did not do,

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Speaker 4: he said to the journalist twelve years ago, because some

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Speaker 4: of you are not Catholic or not believers. I'll just

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Speaker 4: pray for you in my heart. Well, today Pope Leo

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Speaker 4: the fourteenth gave us all his blessing and everyone seemed

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Speaker 4: very happy about it. It was really a very good event.

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Speaker 3: No, No, it's a big department. We're seeing a big

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Speaker 3: shift to the middle at least and probably just back

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Speaker 3: to Catholic tradition, you know, to take the politics out

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Speaker 3: of it. But there's another canarda I need to expose,

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Speaker 3: and then we're going to get to how this conclave

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Speaker 3: went out. Yeah, there is a major story out there

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Speaker 3: that Pope Leo, then Cardinal Prevost attended a meeting at

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Speaker 3: Cardinal Raymond Burke's apartment before the conclave. I have spoken

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Speaker 3: to about seven sources about this, Three of them confirmed

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Speaker 3: to me, both very close, All three of them very

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Speaker 3: close to both sources here, parties here who tell me

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Speaker 3: that meeting never happened. One said it was an out

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Speaker 3: and out fabrication.

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Speaker 4: Your take on this, No, it never happened. I have

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Speaker 4: it on the best of sources that that meeting never happened.

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Speaker 4: There were a lot of cardinals speaking before the conclave,

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Speaker 4: and the mere fact that cardinals were having meetings should

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Speaker 4: not be something that bothers us, whether it's the progressives,

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Speaker 4: the center, the right. That's the normal thing to do.

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Speaker 4: What would we expect the cardinals to do when they

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Speaker 4: haven't met for so long except come together and meet

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Speaker 4: and talk. That's perfectly natural. But this rumor going around

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Speaker 4: the Cardinal Prevost had gone to Cardinal Burk's apartment and

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Speaker 4: that they had spoken, it's completely false.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's my reporter says the same. There's also reporting

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Speaker 3: that Cardinal Dolan was a king maker in this conclave,

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Speaker 3: and he was one of the forces that elected Pope Leo.

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Speaker 4: Do you believe that it's possible. I haven't had that confirmed.

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Speaker 4: It's possible that someone like Cardinal Dolan could have spoken

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Speaker 4: to the US cardinals spoken to other cardinals, say from

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Speaker 4: South America, although I think the South Americans were quite

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Speaker 4: united on Cardinal Prey, he considered them. There's a very

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Speaker 4: good article actually by Jason Horowitz out in the New

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Speaker 4: York Times where he goes through what he has been

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Speaker 4: hearing also from cardinals who are speaking a surprising amount

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Speaker 4: for just having exited. What's supposed to be secret, but.

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Speaker 3: Your excommunication, I guess I know.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, well, anyway, I have not had to confirm

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Speaker 4: that Cardinal Dolan had a major role to play.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I want to play this for you. This is

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Speaker 3: Cardinal Dolan talking to Fox five just after the conclaimt watch.

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Speaker 6: I think it was to his advantage that he wasn't

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Speaker 6: talked about. I think it was to his advantage that

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Speaker 6: he was a guy we didn't identify with any one

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Speaker 6: trend or style within the College of Cardinals. I think

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Speaker 6: it was to his advantage that they didn't really know

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Speaker 6: he was from the United States. They didn't even know

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Speaker 6: where he was frough he's sort of a citizen of

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Speaker 6: the world, as were a citizen of the world to

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Speaker 6: come out here. I think that was to his advanta.

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Speaker 7: I'm thinking that a lot of my brother cardinals shared

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Speaker 7: my esteem for him, simply because he seemed to have

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Speaker 7: come from nowhere. Remember when they said about Jesus in

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Speaker 7: the Gospel, after his first miracle of sermon, the people said,

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Speaker 7: who's this guy?

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Speaker 6: Where'd he come from? We kind of like him, we

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Speaker 6: want to.

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Speaker 5: Get to know him better.

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Speaker 6: That seemed to me what characterized Robert France's Prevost.

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Speaker 3: Now, Pope Leo Dian what do you think of that?

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Speaker 3: Was that the key that they didn't know him, that

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Speaker 3: he didn't seem to be American. I mean, mckilroy said,

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Speaker 3: the cardinal from Washington, that it was almost negligible that

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Speaker 3: he was American. It didn't matter because he spent so

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Speaker 3: much time in Peru. Was Prevost invisibility here his super power.

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Speaker 4: Raymond, There's something really interesting that just happened here in

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Speaker 4: this election. There is a certain similarity between the election

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Speaker 4: of Pope Francis and the election of Cardinal Prevost. Both

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Speaker 4: men came out onto the Loja, and so many people

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Speaker 4: said who's that They had no idea who the man is.

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Speaker 4: Now that two men are very very different in character.

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Speaker 4: But certainly Cardinal Provost was someone who guess he would

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Speaker 4: have been known to probably many bishops and of some

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Speaker 4: of the cardinals through his work as head of bishops

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Speaker 4: here in the Roman Curia, but he was not so

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Speaker 4: well known. It is said in the New York Times

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Speaker 4: article Jason Horowitz had reported that Cardinal Dolan had breakfast

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Speaker 4: one morning because with Pravosts, because he didn't know him,

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Speaker 4: and he wanted to get to know him. But I

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Speaker 4: think the South American cardinals present in the general congregations

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Speaker 4: and in the Conclave knew Cardinal Prevost to be a

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Speaker 4: very moderate man to be one of theirs, So he

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Speaker 4: would have certainly had the South American vote, but to

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Speaker 4: be a moderate figure, which I think would have appealed

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Speaker 4: to a lot of people. Also, through his work in

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Speaker 4: the Dicastery for bishops, he was known to be someone

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Speaker 4: who knew to how to run a meeting, you know,

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Speaker 4: was very practical, knew how to get things done with

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Speaker 4: someone who took in other people's perspectives, listened to other people,

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Speaker 4: could be decisive when he needed to be decisive. So

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Speaker 4: I think all of that went in his favor.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Look from cardinals on the traditional side, cardinals in

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Speaker 3: the middle, even some cardinals on the left, I hear

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Speaker 3: the same thing about this man. He's reasonable, he's a believer,

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Speaker 3: he's a prayerful man, and he listens closely. He's not

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Speaker 3: a firm ideologue, nothing set and well, we'll talk about

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Speaker 3: the impact of Leo's arrival after Pope Francis at the.

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Speaker 5: End of the interview.

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Speaker 3: But I keep hearing from cardinals that the dire finances

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Speaker 3: of the Vatican well one of their big pressing concerns.

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Speaker 3: How big a factor do you think that was in

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Speaker 3: this election?

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Speaker 4: Well, I mean it could have been. You know, he

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Speaker 4: does have a math background. He is known to be

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Speaker 4: a very practical man. He also is from the United States,

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Speaker 4: So I think if you have someone from the United States,

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Speaker 4: now the question will be what decisions will he make?

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Speaker 4: What will he do? Because if he starts making decisions

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Speaker 4: and doing things that really appeal to most practicing Catholics

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Speaker 4: or and I think especially conservative Catholics, I think the Vaticans,

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Speaker 4: it's going to find in itself in a much better

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Speaker 4: financial position as a result of it. But it remains

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Speaker 4: to see what he does.

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Speaker 3: I can't tell you how many people say they left

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Speaker 3: the church because of the things they were hearing from

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Speaker 3: the Vatican and it disturbed themselves. And these are and

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Speaker 3: I kept saying, guys, these are side issues. This is

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Speaker 3: the Pope just just giving his personal opinion. It's not morality,

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Speaker 3: it's not faith and doctrine. But they couldn't process it

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Speaker 3: to them. The Pope is saying it. So this is

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Speaker 3: where the church must be going. And I don't want

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Speaker 3: to be a part of this. So one hopes that

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Speaker 3: Pope Leo can restore trust and get us to focus

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Speaker 3: again on that message of salvation, the gospel.

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Speaker 2: That's what this thing's about.

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Speaker 3: It's supposed to be a house of salvation, you know,

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Speaker 3: not a house of ideology and political opinion. But this

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Speaker 3: is Cardinal Joseph Tobin of Newark talking about knowing Robert

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Speaker 3: Privos for twenty years when he calls Bob here. Tobin

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Speaker 3: went forward to vote during the conclave, and this happened.

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Speaker 8: Then I walked back and I took a look at

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Speaker 8: Bob and because his name had been floating around, and

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Speaker 8: he had his head in his hands, and I was

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Speaker 8: praying for him because I couldn't imagine what happens to

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Speaker 8: a human being when you're facing something like that. And

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Speaker 8: then when he accepted it, it was like he was

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Speaker 8: made for it. He just all of whatever anguish was

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Speaker 8: resolved by the feeling that I think that this wasn't

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Speaker 8: simply his saying yes to a proposal, but God had

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Speaker 8: made something clear and he agreed with it.

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Speaker 3: Diane, what do you make of that? They talked about

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Speaker 3: his manner and not anything He said that that's what

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Speaker 3: sealed the deal.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it is for being reported that in the General Congregations,

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Speaker 4: for instance, Cardinal Provos's speech did not stand out, which

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Speaker 4: is different from the case of Cardinal Brogoglio, who would

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Speaker 4: become Pope Francis. I think he really wild people and

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Speaker 4: wild to the other cardinals in the General congregations. Many

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Speaker 4: cardinals don't even remember what Cardinal Prevost said, but he

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Speaker 4: came across as he Also, we have to remember that

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Speaker 4: he was chosen every three days during the General Congregations

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Speaker 4: and as part of the Conclave, several cardinals are chosen

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Speaker 4: by lot to sort of run the administrative element of

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Speaker 4: the Conclave and the General Congregations, and one of those

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Speaker 4: turns was given to Cardinal Prevost, So people would have

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Speaker 4: the cardinals would have had an opportunity to see what

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Speaker 4: sort of man he is, how he treats the different cardinals,

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Speaker 4: how he's running things, and that may also have made

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Speaker 4: an impression.

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Speaker 3: On them also, and I'm learning well, first of all,

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Speaker 3: he was elected twice to head the Global Augustinian Order,

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Speaker 3: so you know, you don't get a lunatic who's elected twice,

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Speaker 3: you know, one time, maybe twice.

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Speaker 5: Never.

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Speaker 3: He was also very close to the unassuming and very

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Speaker 3: holy former Chicago Cardinal Francis George, whom I knew well.

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Speaker 3: And if you look at Pope Leo at a certain

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Speaker 3: vantage point, he almost reminds you of Cardinal Francis George.

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Speaker 3: Very unassuming, but a solid character. Yes character.

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Speaker 4: Now it's interesting, you know, just since he came out,

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Speaker 4: since popele of the fourteenth came out onto the lojam.

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Speaker 4: His appearance yesterday singing the regimea Chailey and Latin, and

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Speaker 4: he has a very good voice, and I hope that

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Speaker 4: that continues. And his appearance today, his audience with journalists,

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Speaker 4: he does have a very He communicates very very well

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Speaker 4: by his manner as well as by his words. He

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Speaker 4: is a very unassumed nature's he's he's good in front

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Speaker 4: of the camera, but he doesn't seem to be looking

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Speaker 4: for the camera.

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Speaker 3: And he's great bargain in a.

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Speaker 4: Sense that he is putting Jesus first. He's putting Christ

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Speaker 4: at the center rather than himself. So I think that's

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Speaker 4: going to appeal to everyone.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, some of the cardinals I talked to said, you know,

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Speaker 3: they're also relying on the grace of the office, and

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Speaker 3: they see the grace that Catholics believe come with the

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Speaker 3: office of the pope, that it's already transforming him in

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Speaker 3: ways that maybe even he didn't expect. Yeah, let's talk

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Speaker 3: about the pope. Leo's background. He's not only the first

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Speaker 3: American pope, he's the first Creole pope. He has roots

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Speaker 3: in New Orleans, which I'm very you know, sent of course. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: the whole city's buzzing about this. His maternal grandmother was

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Speaker 3: a Creole. Now those were people who were black and

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Speaker 3: of European heritage. His grandfather was Haitian. Aside from apparently

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Speaker 3: passing on some great cooking to his mother, which may

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Speaker 3: have led to his vocation because priests would come over

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Speaker 3: to eat her cooking. What does it say about him?

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Speaker 3: What impact do you think?

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 4: Well, it has been reported well, sent through his brothers,

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Speaker 4: and his brothers have done quite a number of interviews,

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Speaker 4: but they have stressed in some of the interviews what

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Speaker 4: a Catholic family they grew up in. They said, you know,

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Speaker 4: every night after the they'd be playing outside or in

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Speaker 4: school all day, but every night after dinner they prayed

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Speaker 4: the Rosary as a family. And so this is the

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Speaker 4: sort of there were religious around the house, there were

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Speaker 4: priests around the house, so he seems to have been

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Speaker 4: formed in the very Catholic home, to the point which

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Speaker 4: at the age five or six he already knew he

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Speaker 4: wanted to be a priest.

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Speaker 1: Diane, four thousand journalists descended on Rome for this conclave period.

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Speaker 1: Most of them thought the Holy See was a body

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Speaker 1: of water, So you're there every day. My question is,

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Speaker 1: what don't we know about this conclave? Tell us about

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Speaker 1: the inside scoop here.

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Speaker 4: So it seems what happened in the conclave. It's important

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Speaker 4: to remember that Pope Leo was elected on the fourth ballot,

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Speaker 4: So from what I've heard and what seems reasonable to

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Speaker 4: believe I have. Of course, the cardinals can't you know,

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Speaker 4: it is secretive, so the cardinals can't be can't confirm

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Speaker 4: it necessarily. But it seems as though on the first

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Speaker 4: ballot on Wednesday night, it became immediately apparent that Cardinal

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Speaker 4: Perolin simply didn't have enough votes to get him across

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Speaker 4: the finish line to get to the two thirds majority.

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Speaker 4: At the same time, what you had from the conservative

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Speaker 4: side was Cardinal Erdo had a good number of votes,

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Speaker 4: but the conservative vote was split perhaps by from between

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Speaker 4: Cardinal Ranjit, Cardinal Erdo and Cardinal Pizzabala. And at the

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Speaker 4: same time, already and this would make sense if he

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Speaker 4: was voted in on the fourth ballot, Cardinal Prevost already

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Speaker 4: emerged as a contender on the first ballot. At the

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Speaker 4: same time, the cardinals saw that Cardinal Perlin probably couldn't

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Speaker 4: reach the two thirds majority. They went back to Santa

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Speaker 4: Marta that night, they spoke and the early votes in

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Speaker 4: the morning there are two votes. In the morning, Prevos

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Speaker 4: was gaining momentum, and the cardinals could see that by

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Speaker 4: the early afternoon that he was the cantinet with momentum.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's the cool thing about this process.

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Speaker 1: There's such variability, there's possibilities, and it allows the Holy

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Speaker 1: Spirit room to operate. Rather than an up or down vote,

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Speaker 1: you know, a one time deal, they could all come

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Speaker 1: together and just take an upper down majority vote the

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Speaker 1: two thirds. It's a rolling It's a rolling election that

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Speaker 1: allows for all sorts of unforeseen possibilities. Final question, how

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Speaker 1: has this changed the atmosphere of Rome and the Vatican itself.

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Speaker 1: I'm seeing reports you have Archbishop Gonswain, the former Secretary

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Speaker 1: of Benedict the sixteenth, saying it's like the air is

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Speaker 1: suddenly clear again and freedom's return.

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Speaker 4: Yes, well, you know one other thing to say about

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Speaker 4: the conclave itself. Both I have heard this from very

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Speaker 4: good sources and it's I think it's being reported elsewhere

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Speaker 4: that Cardinal Prevos didn't win by a simple two thirds majority,

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Speaker 4: that the votes we was getting into three digits, So

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Speaker 4: it was quite The college was quite united, and I

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Speaker 4: have to say, I mean, there is such a spirit

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Speaker 4: of freedom, there's a spirit of unity. There is a

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Speaker 4: calm that has descended upon this city that we really

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Speaker 4: haven't seen in some times. So I think, whoever you are,

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Speaker 4: all I'm seeing is optimism that this could be a

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Speaker 4: very unifying pontificate and that we have a good pope.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he has a serenity about him, and I think

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Speaker 1: people are picking up on that. Diane Montga, we will

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Speaker 1: check in with you as this papacy matures.

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Speaker 2: I thank you for your insight, your fine reportage. We'll

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Speaker 2: talk soon, Thank you.

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Speaker 3: Emmit.

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Speaker 1: I spent a lot of time this week at Saint

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Speaker 1: Peter's Basilica, and it made me think of the mark

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Speaker 1: each of these popes, the successors to Saint Peter leave

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Speaker 1: on history and the church. The basilica is built upon

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Speaker 1: the actual bones of Saint Peter the Apostle. There's really

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Speaker 1: nothing like the expanse of Saint Peter's basilica when you

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Speaker 1: first walk in. Just look at the expanse of the

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Speaker 1: basilica here. It is enormous. I love when they don't

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Speaker 1: have any chairs in place, because it kind of underscores

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Speaker 1: just how huge this basilica is. And of course right

404
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Speaker 1: behind me over here Michaelangelos Pieta, and there are bees

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Speaker 1: on the walls, at the base of columns, even on

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Speaker 1: the ceilings. The boldakino over the main altar would not

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Speaker 1: exist were it not for this man, Matheo Barbarini Pope

408
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Speaker 1: Urban the eighth. His papacy began in sixteen twenty three.

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Speaker 1: He knew Galileo well, they were close, but when Galileo

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Speaker 1: refused to publish his ideas as hypotheses rather than fact,

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Speaker 1: Pope Urban had him jailed. But that's another story. Part

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Speaker 1: of his legacy is right in Saint Peter's. He commissioned

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Speaker 1: Bernini to create the baldikino the loggias on the front

414
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Speaker 1: of Saint Peter's, especially the one that Pope Leo just

415
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Speaker 1: greeted the world on. That too, was commissioned by Pope

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Speaker 1: Urban the eighth. But back to those bees. Pope Urban's family,

417
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Speaker 1: the Barberini's crest featured three bees. They were considered industrious

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Speaker 1: and elegant, so whenever he added a monument or restored

419
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Speaker 1: a part of the basilica, he made sure the Barberini bees.

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Speaker 2: Had a place of prominence.

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Speaker 1: And just so no one would forget, Pope Urban had

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Speaker 1: Bernini build a monument atop his tomb in Saint Peter's.

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Speaker 1: Even if it took the artist twenty years to finish it,

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Speaker 1: Pope Urban the eighth is still there, reaching out to

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Speaker 1: all of us and his many bees. For a deeper

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Speaker 1: dive into who Pope Leo is. I gathered the Conclave crew,

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Speaker 1: Father Gerald Murray and Robert Royal to discuss when we

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Speaker 1: were still in Rome.

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Speaker 2: This is a compilation of an earlier convent section. Watch chance.

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Speaker 1: Let's start with the name. I have to tell you,

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Speaker 1: I was standing in the square. The Italians were not

432
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:09,840
Speaker 1: too happy with this selection. The Americans were jubilant. The

433
00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:12,919
Speaker 1: Italians were a little less. So let's start with the

434
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:16,480
Speaker 1: name from Leo the Great. There have been thirteen popes

435
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:19,800
Speaker 1: with that name Leo. Why do you think he chose it,

436
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:21,640
Speaker 1: Father Jerry, I.

437
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:24,280
Speaker 9: Think he's signaling that he wants to continue with the

438
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:27,399
Speaker 9: teaching of Pope Leo the thirteenth, who is the father

439
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:32,040
Speaker 9: of Catholic social teaching in the modern era. And precisely

440
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:35,159
Speaker 9: because Leo the thirteenth was a great defender of the

441
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:38,720
Speaker 9: working man, of the rights of workers to organize, to

442
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:41,679
Speaker 9: form unions. But we also have to remember that he

443
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:44,960
Speaker 9: also condemned socialism, and he defended the right to private property,

444
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:48,360
Speaker 9: which in reality is also part of Catholic social teaching,

445
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:52,800
Speaker 9: despite what some social justice warriors occasionally claimed. So I

446
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:56,240
Speaker 9: think this is a very important signal that he's very

447
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:59,679
Speaker 9: interested in the social teaching of the Church, maintaining a

448
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:03,000
Speaker 9: press presence in the we could say the public square

449
00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:05,040
Speaker 9: as regards economic life.

450
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:09,760
Speaker 1: Bob Any further reflections on that that choice of Leo

451
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:10,720
Speaker 1: I was surprised.

452
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 2: Actually another Leo.

453
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:17,639
Speaker 10: I was too, I must say, and look, Benedict the

454
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:21,359
Speaker 10: sixteenth chose to follow Benedict the fifteenth, who was early

455
00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:25,280
Speaker 10: in the twentieth century and helped to build up a

456
00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:29,560
Speaker 10: sense of peace at a time of war. I get

457
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:33,160
Speaker 10: the impression that Leo the fourteenth wants to reach back,

458
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:36,480
Speaker 10: as Father was saying, to that foundation of modern Catholic

459
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:39,679
Speaker 10: social thought in Leo the thirteenth. In my book A

460
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:42,479
Speaker 10: Deeper Vision, which is about the modern Catholic intellectual tradition,

461
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:47,119
Speaker 10: I have a great, an intricate and careful analysis of

462
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:48,920
Speaker 10: what Leo did. And one of the things that Leo

463
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:53,679
Speaker 10: did was he also created the resurgence of studies of

464
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:56,800
Speaker 10: same time as Aquiemas, and he linked the two so

465
00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:59,600
Speaker 10: much so that my friend Russell Hittinger, who's an expert

466
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:03,679
Speaker 10: on natural law and modern Catholic social thought, has pointed

467
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:07,199
Speaker 10: out that Leo never talked about social thought without mentioning

468
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:09,920
Speaker 10: Saint Thomas. Now, I don't know that Leo the fourteenth

469
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:12,680
Speaker 10: has exactly got that in mind, but I would hope

470
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:17,840
Speaker 10: that he would not just accept the framework of modern

471
00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:22,480
Speaker 10: politics and economics, but would actually be reaching deeply into

472
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:24,359
Speaker 10: our Catholic tradition of.

473
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:26,600
Speaker 5: Thinking about society.

474
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 10: And bring something new and dynamic and creative to a

475
00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:33,119
Speaker 10: circumstance that is very, very troubling in many ways.

476
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:36,240
Speaker 1: Father, what did you make of the Mozetta that he

477
00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 1: was wearing that red cape that is traditional for the

478
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:41,280
Speaker 1: pope to wear. I mean, we did not see that

479
00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:42,440
Speaker 1: from Pope Francis.

480
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:43,400
Speaker 2: I mean though he.

481
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:46,639
Speaker 1: Is considered Leo the fourteenth is considered to be in

482
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:48,920
Speaker 1: the vein of Pope Francis, and we'll get altered into

483
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:52,000
Speaker 1: that in a moment, but contrast that image with that

484
00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:54,240
Speaker 1: of Pope Francis the first time we saw him.

485
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:59,159
Speaker 9: Yes, Leo made the conscious choice to observe the traditional

486
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:02,240
Speaker 9: practice that popes come out. They're wearing the white cassick

487
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:04,760
Speaker 9: for the first time, but then they're wearing the mozetta,

488
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 9: which is red, which is the symbol of a bishop.

489
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:11,399
Speaker 9: They're wearing the pope wears then the red stole symbol

490
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:14,720
Speaker 9: and anything martyrdom. And then there are two martyrs pictured

491
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:17,760
Speaker 9: on that, Peter and Paul, who are the two founders

492
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:21,359
Speaker 9: that we say of the church in Rome. And then

493
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:25,639
Speaker 9: he of course then followed the ritual very carefully, because

494
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:29,439
Speaker 9: there's a ritual with some prayers which go back, you know,

495
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 9: to the old Mass. Even those prayers I was listening

496
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:35,480
Speaker 9: to them. He has, by the ways, Latin.

497
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:37,439
Speaker 5: Is very good. He said them worst beautifully.

498
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:41,640
Speaker 9: He had written out his comments in Italian, which probably

499
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 9: reflects the fact that he doesn't think spontaneously in Italian,

500
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:48,239
Speaker 9: so he wanted to have them written. But they were

501
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 9: good remarks, so I was impressed he was sending a

502
00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:56,920
Speaker 9: signal of continuity with previous posts Pope Francis. Basically we

503
00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:00,480
Speaker 9: learned from sources that he viewed that as who's much

504
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:03,160
Speaker 9: of a spectacle and he didn't want to participate in it.

505
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:06,040
Speaker 9: But in a way you could say that Pope Leo

506
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:09,919
Speaker 9: was subsuming his personality right into the office and was

507
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 9: stepping away from making how can we say statements that

508
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:15,560
Speaker 9: indicate personal preferences.

509
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:19,679
Speaker 1: He did say in his first address, and I remember,

510
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:21,880
Speaker 1: you know, I couldn't make it all out because, as

511
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:24,040
Speaker 1: we've been commenting it, it was very hard to hear

512
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:24,680
Speaker 1: in St.

513
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:26,080
Speaker 2: Peters Square or above it.

514
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:29,640
Speaker 1: He did say, we need to be a sonotyl church

515
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:33,400
Speaker 1: and reach out in dialogue and encounter. What does that mean,

516
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:34,200
Speaker 1: Robert Royle?

517
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:38,240
Speaker 10: Well, look, it can mean any number of things, because,

518
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:41,200
Speaker 10: as we've said over and over again, cinidality itself is

519
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:43,880
Speaker 10: kind of an empty sack that could be either filled

520
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:46,240
Speaker 10: or not filled, depending on who the pope happens to

521
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:49,960
Speaker 10: be Yeah, he really did emphasize the continuity with Francis

522
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:53,640
Speaker 10: quite a bit. But as Father rightly says, not only

523
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 10: in the way that he vested himself or was vested

524
00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 10: for the event yesterday, but the way he carries himself

525
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 10: he conveys I've spoken to a number of people back

526
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:05,280
Speaker 10: home in America as well as here in Rome, and

527
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 10: the way he conducts himself is as a serious man,

528
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 10: a mature man who's careful about what he says, and

529
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 10: brings a kind of I think he brings back a

530
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:18,680
Speaker 10: little bit of the majesty already of what the pope

531
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:20,400
Speaker 10: is like, even though he's an American and we're not

532
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:23,920
Speaker 10: supposed to have, you know, sort of of that kind

533
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:26,840
Speaker 10: of mentality in us. It'll be interesting to see where

534
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 10: that goes, because you can be in continuity with the

535
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:32,960
Speaker 10: previous pope and yet at the same time practice a

536
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 10: certain innovation. And the very fact that he chose that

537
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:39,280
Speaker 10: name they jumped back a century and more to the

538
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 10: name of Leo. It'll be interesting to see where he goes,

539
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:43,720
Speaker 10: and I don't think we can predict.

540
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 2: Father.

541
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 1: I thought of you when I heard that we were

542
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:48,160
Speaker 1: standing on the balcony together. You were doing a hit

543
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 1: and I was right there and I thought, my gosh,

544
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:54,560
Speaker 1: how much time have we spent trying to determine what

545
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:57,959
Speaker 1: the term citidality means. And here's the pope saying we

546
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 1: need a sonodyl church. I've been waiting for this. What

547
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 1: is your take on that? And what do you think

548
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:04,480
Speaker 1: he intends?

549
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:08,560
Speaker 9: Well, I think he's signaling to the cardinals and others,

550
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 9: particularly the cardinals who voted for him, that he is

551
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:15,959
Speaker 9: going to not stop this Sonadyl process that Poe Francis began,

552
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 9: because it's quite clear those who criticized the Sonadyl path

553
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:21,040
Speaker 9: were hoping.

554
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:23,200
Speaker 5: To elect a pope who would put an end to it.

555
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 9: This certainly was my hope, because cinidality is a vague concept,

556
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 9: and it really is a change from what it originally meant.

557
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 9: Cinnidale is based on the word sind sined in the

558
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:39,160
Speaker 9: modern sense, was created by Paul the six after a

559
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 9: Vatican two to have a forum in which bishops throughout

560
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 9: the world would meet periodically to advise the pope on

561
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:48,440
Speaker 9: the needs of the church in the modern world. Poe

562
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:52,360
Speaker 9: Francis turned it into a meeting of laity, priests, deacons,

563
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 9: nuns and bishops and gave everybody an equal vote. And

564
00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:58,960
Speaker 9: this was indicative. It's kind of like it was a

565
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:02,040
Speaker 9: stage post, a way station.

566
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:03,240
Speaker 5: On the way to what they're going to have in

567
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 5: twenty twenty eight, which.

568
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:07,200
Speaker 9: Is the ecclesial assembly in which bishops will not be

569
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:10,239
Speaker 9: the majority in Rome. And I wrote a column at

570
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:14,040
Speaker 9: the Catholic thing, tearing into it, which it deserves to be.

571
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:18,600
Speaker 9: We are not a church in which the hierarchy is

572
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:23,680
Speaker 9: an appendage. It's a hierarchical church with synidal experiences. It's

573
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:27,160
Speaker 9: not a synidyl church with hierarchical appendages.

574
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 5: That's what I'm very much afraid of.

575
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 9: So it's not clear what Leo means by cynidl church,

576
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:37,800
Speaker 9: but if it means the ecclesial Assembly in twenty twenty eight,

577
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 9: well get ready because there's going to be a lot

578
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:43,920
Speaker 9: of opposition based on the fact that this is completely

579
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:46,920
Speaker 9: at odds with the hierarchical nature of the Catholic Church.

580
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,600
Speaker 2: Well, it's also at odds with the founding of the church.

581
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 1: The Lord didn't bring all the disciples and everybody following

582
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:54,720
Speaker 1: him through Galley and say hey, guys, you all of

583
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:58,280
Speaker 1: the power to loose and bind. Whatever you bind on

584
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 1: earth is bond in heaven, and on earth is loosed

585
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:03,480
Speaker 1: in it. No, he gave that only to Peter and

586
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 1: then to the apostles. It's a very limited group. So

587
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 1: it does kind of corrupt the vision of church governance

588
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 1: when you start bringing atheists in and non believers in,

589
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:16,320
Speaker 1: and everybody and their dog in, and then you and

590
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:18,680
Speaker 1: only a select group of cardinals who agree with you.

591
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 2: That's a problem. Bob, I'll give you the last word

592
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 2: on this.

593
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 10: Yeah, I think that the next stage to look toward

594
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:28,040
Speaker 10: because for others right the twenty twenty eight is if

595
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:30,640
Speaker 10: that's going to continue on the way it was originally planned,

596
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:32,720
Speaker 10: that's going to be a big problem.

597
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 1: Which we know that the proved from the Jameli clinic,

598
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:37,360
Speaker 1: from his really his hospital bed.

599
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 10: But we know that in June, those ten study groups

600
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:45,960
Speaker 10: that were established at the end of the last Senate

601
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:49,840
Speaker 10: in October, that basically took the hot button issues off

602
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:52,720
Speaker 10: the table. Women, deacons, you know, all that sort of stuff.

603
00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 10: Their reports are doing June. So presumably those those committees

604
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:01,600
Speaker 10: have been We're working on this all this time, in

605
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:04,960
Speaker 10: spite of the fact that Francis was ill they're supposed

606
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 10: to deliver reports in June. If they do that and

607
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 10: they are submitted to Pope Leo, we can see how

608
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 10: he reacts to that, what he's going to do with him.

609
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:17,280
Speaker 10: Does he immediately kind of publish them, or does he said, well,

610
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:19,480
Speaker 10: you know, let me think this over a bit. That'll

611
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:22,280
Speaker 10: be our first indication, I think, our first solid indication

612
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:23,719
Speaker 10: of what he intends to do.

613
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:27,400
Speaker 1: Look, we always said, and I was told by cardinals,

614
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:30,080
Speaker 1: including many of whom we had meetings and dinners and

615
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 1: conference with over the last ten days or so, that

616
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:38,000
Speaker 1: an American could not be named pope.

617
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:41,960
Speaker 2: America is already powerful enough. You don't need an American pope.

618
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:44,960
Speaker 2: Yet Pope Leo is the first American in history.

619
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:47,600
Speaker 1: Why do you think they elected him, father, I'm told

620
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:49,960
Speaker 1: in part because of the financial strains of the Vatican,

621
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:53,880
Speaker 1: a two billion dollar deficit, four hundred million dollars in

622
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:54,960
Speaker 1: unpaid pensions.

623
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 2: Father, Why an American?

624
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 9: Well, I think that's one of the two important reasons. Well,

625
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:00,720
Speaker 9: there are a number of He's going to give two

626
00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 9: that I think are important.

627
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:02,800
Speaker 5: One is precisely this.

628
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:06,200
Speaker 9: They understand that someone coming for what we call the

629
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:10,360
Speaker 9: Anglo sphere in other words, the Anglo Saxon world English

630
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:17,600
Speaker 9: speaking world that financial competence and rigor are normal in

631
00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:21,880
Speaker 9: the operations of the economies of England, Australia, Canada and

632
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:27,399
Speaker 9: the United States. And therefore there's hope that he will

633
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:30,439
Speaker 9: bring that kind of vision to the reform here, because

634
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:35,040
Speaker 9: we're talking two billion dollar pension hold We're talking major

635
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:40,600
Speaker 9: operating deficits every year, we're talking mismanagement of assets. So

636
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:44,640
Speaker 9: hopefully Pope Leo will bring in some very serious and

637
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:48,520
Speaker 9: powerful minds and voices to say no, we're going to

638
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 9: top to bottom renewal. Secondly, he really is a Latin

639
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:56,040
Speaker 9: American in experience because his priesthood has lived in Peru

640
00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:57,960
Speaker 9: at the beginning and then at the end when he

641
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:02,440
Speaker 9: was a bishop in Chiclio. His Spanish is perfect, so

642
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:05,920
Speaker 9: he is by experience he's really a Latin American, but

643
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 9: he's also a North American, so he's both Americans.

644
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:09,839
Speaker 5: I think that was attracted.

645
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:10,600
Speaker 8: You know.

646
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:12,799
Speaker 9: Other reasons of court has to do with the fact

647
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:15,840
Speaker 9: that he was appointed to this important position at the

648
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:19,040
Speaker 9: dicastrabitious bi Pope France hasn't made a cardinal by him,

649
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:23,359
Speaker 9: so the continuity with Pope Francis is assumed by those

650
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:25,840
Speaker 9: who voted for him, because they would say he wouldn't

651
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:27,840
Speaker 9: be here to be elected pope if it weren't for

652
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:28,920
Speaker 9: Pope Francis.

653
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:31,319
Speaker 5: Those are some of the things I think are going on.

654
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:34,279
Speaker 1: Bob, How do you think this will impact having an

655
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:38,000
Speaker 1: American pope, Pope Leo? How will that impact his relationship

656
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 1: with America, which we have to say has been tense

657
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:42,800
Speaker 1: since Trump came to town.

658
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:45,080
Speaker 5: Yeah.

659
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:48,279
Speaker 10: Look, I hear some people saying, and this is part

660
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:51,080
Speaker 10: of that overspeculation that takes place at a moment like this.

661
00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:53,920
Speaker 10: I hear some people saying that the Cardinals chose him

662
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:58,200
Speaker 10: to confront Trump. I think this is utter nonsense, because

663
00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 10: what they're primarily concerned about are some of the issues

664
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:04,720
Speaker 10: we just mentioned that are really pressing on the church

665
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:07,200
Speaker 10: at this moment. In fact, it might actually help that

666
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:09,640
Speaker 10: he knows the United States pretty well.

667
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:10,799
Speaker 5: I was a little bit.

668
00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:13,800
Speaker 10: Disappointed that he didn't use any English during his initial

669
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:18,319
Speaker 10: address last evening, because look, he is, yes, he is

670
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:20,960
Speaker 10: very much a Latin American. Now he's very much a Roman.

671
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:24,640
Speaker 10: He's spent a number of years now in Rome. But

672
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:27,120
Speaker 10: darn it, you know you are who you are. I mean,

673
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:28,840
Speaker 10: you started on the South side of Chicago.

674
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 5: I think you ought to be proud of that.

675
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:34,400
Speaker 10: And it's you know, we are all sensitive to the

676
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 10: cultural issues like cinidality, homosexuality, you know, women, priests, all that.

677
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:39,200
Speaker 5: Sort of thing.

678
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:41,640
Speaker 10: But I think he's shown himself to be a safe

679
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:44,800
Speaker 10: pair of hands. And as I said earlier, he's impressed

680
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 10: in a number of people. He's even impressed me. I mean,

681
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:49,880
Speaker 10: I'm just seeing him on TV, but he's he the

682
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:52,239
Speaker 10: emotion that he showed last night and the kind of

683
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:55,840
Speaker 10: maturity that he seems to radiate. I think if you

684
00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:58,680
Speaker 10: were looking around and saying, look, we need to clean

685
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:01,719
Speaker 10: house here in Rome and calm down a bit and

686
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:04,400
Speaker 10: take some of those practical steps that we know we

687
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:06,319
Speaker 10: need to take, but he doesn't seem to have been

688
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:10,040
Speaker 10: able to do. Could you could be worse. And on

689
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:11,920
Speaker 10: top of it, he knows a lot of these bishops

690
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:14,000
Speaker 10: who've been appointed because he was the headman in that

691
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:16,080
Speaker 10: that office. So there are a number of things that

692
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:19,480
Speaker 10: come together that could be helpful. He probably isn't going

693
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:22,480
Speaker 10: to look that American to most Americans back in North.

694
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:24,040
Speaker 5: America, but he is an American.

695
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:26,759
Speaker 10: Yeah, and I wan't rub it in that. I won't

696
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:29,080
Speaker 10: put rub it in that I projected yesterday that it's

697
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:29,960
Speaker 10: not impossible.

698
00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:34,600
Speaker 2: Well, well, we have the video evidence. Unfortunately, or I

699
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:36,240
Speaker 2: would deprive you of that, but I can't.

700
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:39,320
Speaker 1: And look, in his first Mass at the Assistine Chapel,

701
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:43,120
Speaker 1: the Pope used the crozure of Poe Benedict. So it's

702
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:46,239
Speaker 1: being reported others say that that Krozier is actually Paul

703
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:49,439
Speaker 1: the six. I don't know who's right here, but does

704
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:50,400
Speaker 1: that have any meaning?

705
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:50,760
Speaker 5: Father?

706
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:51,560
Speaker 8: Yes?

707
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:54,040
Speaker 9: And he also began the sermon in English. He did

708
00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:55,640
Speaker 9: off the coup from Marks and he could I think

709
00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:58,160
Speaker 9: somebody told them, you know, the Americans are waiting for

710
00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:00,400
Speaker 9: you to talk in English at the bout, which he

711
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:00,799
Speaker 9: didn't do.

712
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:01,480
Speaker 3: Yeah.

713
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:07,880
Speaker 9: I mean he's stressing continuity and with not just Pope Francis,

714
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:09,840
Speaker 9: but Pope Nedict and even John Paul.

715
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:15,120
Speaker 5: He had quoted John Paul. And let's just say this.

716
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:19,040
Speaker 9: The sermon was a very serious sermon in which he

717
00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:23,600
Speaker 9: talked about practical atheism, talked about challenges in the modern

718
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 9: world that the Church faces. He talked about the necessity

719
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:30,520
Speaker 9: of preaching the Gospel to the world Christo centric. We

720
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:33,200
Speaker 9: would say centered on Christ. So I was impressed with

721
00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:36,359
Speaker 9: the sermon, and I think the cardinals listening were too.

722
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:36,759
Speaker 2: Yeah.

723
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:40,440
Speaker 1: Look, anytime you mentioned ignacious of Antioch and giving yourself,

724
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:43,160
Speaker 1: you know, for the faith, that's pretty good stuff. I

725
00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:44,960
Speaker 1: want to give the audience a little taste. This is

726
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:48,480
Speaker 1: the opening of his homily, which he pronounced in English.

727
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:51,879
Speaker 11: Watch begin with a word in English and the rest

728
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:55,920
Speaker 11: is in Italian. But I want to repeat the words

729
00:38:56,600 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 11: from the responsorial Psalm. I will sing a new song

730
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:04,640
Speaker 11: belong to the Lord, because he has done marvels, and indeed,

731
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 11: not just with me, but with all of us, my

732
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:13,000
Speaker 11: brother cardinals, as we celebrate this morning, I invite you

733
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:16,799
Speaker 11: to recognize the marvels that the Lord has done, the

734
00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:20,480
Speaker 11: blessings that the Lord continues to pour out upon all

735
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:26,000
Speaker 11: of us through the ministry of Peter. You have called

736
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:30,920
Speaker 11: me to carry that cross and to be blessed with

737
00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:34,239
Speaker 11: that mission. And I know I can rely on each

738
00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:37,279
Speaker 11: and every one of you to walk with me as

739
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:42,360
Speaker 11: we continue as a church, as a community of friends

740
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:46,320
Speaker 11: of Jesus, as believers, to announce the good news, to

741
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:47,440
Speaker 11: announce the gospel.

742
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:49,680
Speaker 2: Bob, what do you make of that?

743
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:54,160
Speaker 10: Well, it look it's nice and we had a pope.

744
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:57,160
Speaker 10: Someone priest pointed out to me a little while ago

745
00:39:57,200 --> 00:40:00,319
Speaker 10: that Pope Francis was really the only modern pope in

746
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:03,640
Speaker 10: the twentieth century and on who didn't speak English, and

747
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:09,760
Speaker 10: that doubtless tilted his understanding of the world somewhat. And

748
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:12,080
Speaker 10: I think we have to expect that Pope Leo is

749
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:15,319
Speaker 10: also because he's largely now a Latin American, and his

750
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 10: mentality is going to be absorbed somewhat into that view.

751
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:22,840
Speaker 10: But if he's very serious about presenting the Gospel to

752
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:26,480
Speaker 10: the world, and he's serious about how the Church is

753
00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:29,600
Speaker 10: going to form the world at this moment of transition

754
00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:32,160
Speaker 10: that we seem to be in a variety of ways,

755
00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:35,680
Speaker 10: we're going to have to bring in some new energies.

756
00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:37,480
Speaker 10: And I think some of those energies are going to

757
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 10: have to come from English speaking sources, because where the

758
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:43,640
Speaker 10: place where you know, the modern world has actually succeeded,

759
00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:47,080
Speaker 10: at least economically, you know, more or less politically, we

760
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:47,840
Speaker 10: have all kinds.

761
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:50,880
Speaker 5: Of crises in the English speaking world. But for him to.

762
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:53,239
Speaker 10: Step out with that, I think is going to expand

763
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:56,319
Speaker 10: the mentality a little bit. Because what language you use

764
00:40:56,680 --> 00:40:57,480
Speaker 10: makes a difference.

765
00:40:57,719 --> 00:40:57,919
Speaker 2: Yeah.

766
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:01,600
Speaker 1: Well, and our contry of father Marriage said yesterday on

767
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:06,080
Speaker 1: the podcast that this should be the basic and foundational

768
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:08,440
Speaker 1: language used as the Vatican, that it should be English.

769
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:10,440
Speaker 2: Maybe he's listening to the podcast.

770
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:15,120
Speaker 9: Father, Well, in the global world, you want to imitate

771
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:16,600
Speaker 9: the UN start using English.

772
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:17,640
Speaker 5: I mean, yeah, it's.

773
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:21,000
Speaker 9: Oh, I've said, I've thought this for a long time.

774
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:25,200
Speaker 9: English is the language. I mean, airplane pilots have to

775
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:28,959
Speaker 9: know English. And it's a practicality that things get done

776
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:31,840
Speaker 9: easily when people can understand each other. So yeah, that

777
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:35,040
Speaker 9: would be a basics that battalion is this minor language

778
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 9: in the old or a world picture, it's important because

779
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:38,840
Speaker 9: it's the language of the Holy See.

780
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:40,520
Speaker 2: We had a few comments.

781
00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:42,680
Speaker 1: Some were saying, oh, Father Murray is saying we should

782
00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:45,720
Speaker 1: replace the Latin with English. No, no, no, he's saying

783
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 1: the language used to converse in Vatican offices and in

784
00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:50,960
Speaker 1: the Vatican City state right now, it's Italian.

785
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:51,760
Speaker 2: It's not Latin.

786
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:53,480
Speaker 5: Yeah. No, And let me note this.

787
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:55,840
Speaker 9: He's a canon lawyer, the New Poe and I'm a

788
00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:58,239
Speaker 9: canon lawyer, So I like that, but I like it

789
00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:00,200
Speaker 9: for other reason. But you know, one of which the

790
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:02,879
Speaker 9: law is written in Latin, because that is a whole

791
00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:05,440
Speaker 9: history up to this point, and then with all the

792
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:08,399
Speaker 9: different translations. Good to have a reference point. So kind

793
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:10,919
Speaker 9: of law should stay in Latin. But yeah, I mean

794
00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 9: office memos in English would be very practical.

795
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:18,160
Speaker 1: Father Pope Leo has asked all the courial heads, that

796
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:21,560
Speaker 1: means all the men who run and women in some cases,

797
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:25,919
Speaker 1: these various dicastries in the Vatican, the Vatican offices, He's

798
00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:30,479
Speaker 1: asked them to stay in their positions for the time being,

799
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:33,719
Speaker 1: to keep their respective jobs until further Notice what does

800
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:34,359
Speaker 1: that tell you?

801
00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:37,919
Speaker 9: Yeah, that's a standard practice when the new pope comes in,

802
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:40,319
Speaker 9: and it's a wise practice because you know, when the

803
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:44,840
Speaker 9: office is reopen after this you know, momentous time of

804
00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:47,400
Speaker 9: the pope's death and the burial and now the election

805
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:49,400
Speaker 9: new pope, you know, there's a lot of work that

806
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:51,160
Speaker 9: has to be done, and if the leader is not

807
00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:53,720
Speaker 9: there at each of these departments, it becomes a little

808
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:57,080
Speaker 9: bit difficult. The real but the tell, as they would say,

809
00:42:57,200 --> 00:42:59,759
Speaker 9: is going to be who does he replace and who does.

810
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 5: He keep in place?

811
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:04,640
Speaker 9: Because you know the heads of these dicasteries were very

812
00:43:04,719 --> 00:43:09,239
Speaker 9: much disciples of Pope Francis and often proponents of implementing

813
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:15,600
Speaker 9: radical ideas at at an accelerated pace. Even so, we'll

814
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:19,239
Speaker 9: get a read on Pope France's, on Pope Leo's continuity

815
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:22,080
Speaker 9: program by seeing who's left and who's replaced.

816
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:25,320
Speaker 2: Bob pob Leo spent a lot of time in Peru.

817
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:29,440
Speaker 1: How does that experience, that missionary experience, shape this pontificate.

818
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:31,759
Speaker 1: I mean, you heard it in his opening comment when

819
00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:34,839
Speaker 1: he was on the Logia the other day, basically that

820
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:38,040
Speaker 1: the pastors should smell of the sheep and they have

821
00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:39,120
Speaker 1: to walk with the people.

822
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:42,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, Peru has been a very troubled place.

823
00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:47,120
Speaker 10: Most English speakers in North America don't know much about Peru.

824
00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:50,000
Speaker 10: But Peru went through a terrible period towards the end

825
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:54,359
Speaker 10: of the twentieth century with a movement called Sinderrolminozo, which

826
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:57,920
Speaker 10: was a Marxist import from China. It's just ripped up

827
00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:00,759
Speaker 10: the whole society. They began to reform, and they've in

828
00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:06,160
Speaker 10: recent decades too, they've had a number of political ups

829
00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:09,160
Speaker 10: and downs, let's put it that way. So he's confronted

830
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:12,920
Speaker 10: in check Clio's a relatively small diocese. I have a

831
00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:15,040
Speaker 10: personal connection with it. Because a priest that I grew

832
00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:17,680
Speaker 10: up with in my little parish in Connecticut was sent

833
00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:19,000
Speaker 10: as missionary down there.

834
00:44:19,239 --> 00:44:20,680
Speaker 5: He was supposed to be there for a few years,

835
00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:21,719
Speaker 5: and he loved it and he just.

836
00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:23,960
Speaker 10: Stayed the whole time, and you know, we all kind

837
00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:26,600
Speaker 10: of fell close to it and where I grew up.

838
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:29,800
Speaker 10: But look, he's seen that. I think he was the

839
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:34,040
Speaker 10: vice president of the bishop's conference there, and so he's

840
00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:38,160
Speaker 10: seen the turmoil of Latin America, and in a way

841
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:41,439
Speaker 10: that political turmoil maybe is something that he's thinking about

842
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:44,480
Speaker 10: when he takes the name Leo the fourteenth. But I

843
00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:49,480
Speaker 10: would also say that there is an evangelizing turmoil that

844
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:53,480
Speaker 10: we know that the Pentecostals and the other sort of

845
00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:58,000
Speaker 10: evangelical groups are growing by leaps and bounds in these places.

846
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:01,560
Speaker 10: And so you could you con lament that that's happening,

847
00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:03,360
Speaker 10: but you have to do something. In many of the

848
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:06,080
Speaker 10: places in Latin America that I'm familiar with the reason

849
00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:08,359
Speaker 10: why people leave the church is precisely because they want

850
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:11,200
Speaker 10: to get away from politics. That the church is too politicized,

851
00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:13,879
Speaker 10: either for liberation theology, or you know, something or other

852
00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:16,920
Speaker 10: that's going to be a tough needle for him to thread,

853
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:19,000
Speaker 10: and it'll be interesting to keep an eye on what

854
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:19,719
Speaker 10: he does with that.

855
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:23,080
Speaker 1: Well, that's a great intro to what we talked about

856
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:26,360
Speaker 1: the other day, which is really the challenges facing the

857
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:30,600
Speaker 1: church right now in the post Francis era, if you will,

858
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:32,600
Speaker 1: and then now in the beginning of the Leo era.

859
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:35,160
Speaker 1: So I want to talk about how well Pope Leo

860
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:37,880
Speaker 1: might be disposed or perhaps not to embrace some of

861
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:38,600
Speaker 1: these challenges.

862
00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:39,839
Speaker 2: In an earlier episode, we.

863
00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:43,279
Speaker 1: Talked about the collapse of due process father in the

864
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:47,400
Speaker 1: church canonical norms under Pope Francis. They were just shattered,

865
00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:50,839
Speaker 1: as you mentioned a moment ago, Robert Privos. Now Pop

866
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:55,080
Speaker 1: Leo is a canon lawyer. Tell me restate some of

867
00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:59,640
Speaker 1: the problems that in your mind need addressing, and how

868
00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:04,120
Speaker 1: he approach these canonical issues, and how culpable he may

869
00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:06,680
Speaker 1: be in a way that Pope Francis perhaps was not.

870
00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:11,120
Speaker 9: Well, since, yeah, as a canon lawyer, he knows the rules,

871
00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:13,520
Speaker 9: he knows why the rules are put in place. In

872
00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:16,440
Speaker 9: other words, they're not arbitrary things invented just to keep

873
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:17,640
Speaker 9: the powerful powerful.

874
00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:18,040
Speaker 5: They were.

875
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:21,520
Speaker 9: The canon law is designed to guarantee respect for the

876
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:24,560
Speaker 9: rights of everyone in the church, so the hierarchs have

877
00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:28,360
Speaker 9: to follow procedures when there are questions regarding people subject

878
00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:31,279
Speaker 9: to them. There are a lot of issues remaining that

879
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:35,640
Speaker 9: need to be looked at. We have sex abuse enforcement.

880
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:39,120
Speaker 9: I mean right now we have bishops and Ketta who

881
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:42,200
Speaker 9: was announced to be under a canonical process over three

882
00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:44,360
Speaker 9: or four years ago, I can't remember how long, but

883
00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:47,399
Speaker 9: we never heard another word about So that process has

884
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:50,040
Speaker 9: to be brought to completion because guess what, this man

885
00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:54,000
Speaker 9: was convicted in the civil court in Argentine of confusing seminarians.

886
00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:56,840
Speaker 9: There's no reason why this man, if guilty, found guilty

887
00:46:56,880 --> 00:46:59,160
Speaker 9: and countercros should not be removed from the priest.

888
00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:00,759
Speaker 5: Same with Father.

889
00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:06,040
Speaker 9: Rupnik Marco Rupnik. He was thrown out of the Jesuits

890
00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:08,759
Speaker 9: because he wouldn't cooperate with them and their investigation of

891
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:11,840
Speaker 9: sexual abuse of nuns who were under his spiritual care.

892
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:14,719
Speaker 9: So sex abuse is going to be something very important

893
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:18,120
Speaker 9: to look at. Similarly, we have to look at how

894
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:21,920
Speaker 9: investigations are done in religious orders because Poe Francis had

895
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:25,320
Speaker 9: a hostility and this is noted this I'm not inventing

896
00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:29,720
Speaker 9: this to more traditional and charismatic type groups in the church.

897
00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:32,520
Speaker 9: Some of them had problems, there's no doubt, you know.

898
00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:37,560
Speaker 9: The Sodolitzio in Peru was the founder of it, was

899
00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:41,440
Speaker 9: a guilty of sex abuse and others in the group participated,

900
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:44,160
Speaker 9: but Pope Francis abolished the group and a lot of

901
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:47,000
Speaker 9: good members were felt that there was not enough due process.

902
00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:52,000
Speaker 9: The Institute of the Incarnate Word is currently under investigation now.

903
00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:55,440
Speaker 9: Its founder in Argentina was also found guilty of sexual

904
00:47:55,440 --> 00:48:00,719
Speaker 9: abuse of miners or seminarians. But that group is why worldwide.

905
00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:04,440
Speaker 9: In fact, the Pope always called the parish in Gaza,

906
00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:06,600
Speaker 9: you know, every night, and the pastor there was a

907
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:08,759
Speaker 9: member of that group. So though there are a lot

908
00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:13,080
Speaker 9: of groups in France have similar investigations going on, we

909
00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:16,120
Speaker 9: never heard the end about the Franciscans of the Immaculate

910
00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:17,640
Speaker 9: in Italy and elsewhere.

911
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:18,600
Speaker 5: They were put.

912
00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:22,880
Speaker 9: Under a moderator and no resolutions. So they're going to

913
00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:26,400
Speaker 9: be those canonical investigations that need to be completed. Opus

914
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:31,200
Speaker 9: Stay they changed the law regarding personal predators. It's a

915
00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:34,520
Speaker 9: complicated canonical thing. Won't go into but you know, Opa

916
00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:38,760
Speaker 9: Stay was given the opportunity to submit their own revised

917
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:42,760
Speaker 9: statutes and they were at a meeting when the Pope

918
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:44,319
Speaker 9: died in which they were going to come up with

919
00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:49,520
Speaker 9: their final proposal. So they suspended the statute proposal. New

920
00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:52,239
Speaker 9: Pope's going to take that up. So those are some

921
00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:54,920
Speaker 9: of the things. These are canonical issues, and the reason

922
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:58,319
Speaker 9: they're important is everybody else is watching and if they

923
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:01,120
Speaker 9: feel that if these groups feel they're treated unfairly, and

924
00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:04,240
Speaker 9: everyone else is going to be suspicious. If fairness is evident,

925
00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:07,120
Speaker 9: that's how you have social harmony in the church.

926
00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:10,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's get into some of the other areas that

927
00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:14,440
Speaker 1: pope will be contending with. The Pope Leo when he

928
00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:18,240
Speaker 1: was Cardinal Robert Privos is being quoted in the media

929
00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:21,840
Speaker 1: as saying this In a twenty twenty twelve addressed Catholic

930
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:26,440
Speaker 1: pastors who preach against legalization of abortion or the redefinition

931
00:49:26,520 --> 00:49:32,360
Speaker 1: of marriage are portrayed as being ideologically driven, severe and uncaring.

932
00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:34,719
Speaker 1: He went on to call out the media for depicting

933
00:49:34,719 --> 00:49:38,839
Speaker 1: the quote homosexual lifestyle and same sex partners with their

934
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:43,080
Speaker 1: adopted children as a challenge your thoughts, Bob on these

935
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:49,440
Speaker 1: quotes and the upsetment that some gay groups are communicating today.

936
00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:52,200
Speaker 1: They say, wait, this is a departure from Pope Francis.

937
00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:55,320
Speaker 1: He was welcoming us and this is these these comments

938
00:49:55,320 --> 00:49:58,160
Speaker 1: are just abrasive and hostile.

939
00:49:59,719 --> 00:50:02,160
Speaker 10: Well, I'm glad to hear that. I mean, that's actually

940
00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:05,320
Speaker 10: the thirteen years ago, and the question is right now.

941
00:50:05,640 --> 00:50:09,320
Speaker 10: Pope France has said a lot of strong things about

942
00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:13,279
Speaker 10: pro life, about protecting life and the woman protecting life

943
00:50:13,320 --> 00:50:17,279
Speaker 10: at the end of natural life, but he didn't do much,

944
00:50:17,719 --> 00:50:21,080
Speaker 10: and I would like to see some more action and

945
00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:25,120
Speaker 10: even drum beating. France has actually discouraged people from doing

946
00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:29,160
Speaker 10: from being obsessed and focused on the pro life issues

947
00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:31,360
Speaker 10: and the gay issues, and I think that that was

948
00:50:31,400 --> 00:50:33,600
Speaker 10: to his detriment because he just kind of in advance

949
00:50:33,640 --> 00:50:35,319
Speaker 10: and announced, yeah, we're going to say this, but we're

950
00:50:35,320 --> 00:50:37,399
Speaker 10: not going to do anything as far as the gay

951
00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:40,120
Speaker 10: thing goes. In addition to what Father was just saying

952
00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:45,320
Speaker 10: about the high handedness that France has often showed towards

953
00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:49,640
Speaker 10: these other groups, I would hope that in addition to

954
00:50:49,719 --> 00:50:54,959
Speaker 10: following the law, that Leo would look deeply into why

955
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:58,120
Speaker 10: it is that it's been so difficult to move the

956
00:50:58,160 --> 00:51:01,880
Speaker 10: needle within the church on homosexuals, and clearly there is

957
00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:06,240
Speaker 10: some kind of protective network that exists. It was also

958
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:09,800
Speaker 10: personal when it came to Francis with the cases of Unchetta,

959
00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:13,440
Speaker 10: and it appears also with Reupnik to some degree. But

960
00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:16,160
Speaker 10: we know that there's some kind of protective network here

961
00:51:16,280 --> 00:51:20,239
Speaker 10: that needs to be rooted out. It simply can't go

962
00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:23,200
Speaker 10: on that at a time when as we're learning that

963
00:51:23,600 --> 00:51:25,360
Speaker 10: the young priests were coming into the church in the

964
00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:30,760
Speaker 10: United States and elsewhere are deeply, deeply satisfied being heterosexual.

965
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:34,320
Speaker 10: Homosexuals aretending not to go into the seminary that the

966
00:51:34,719 --> 00:51:37,800
Speaker 10: church in terms of its general culture has kind of turned.

967
00:51:38,239 --> 00:51:41,960
Speaker 10: There can't any longer be this network that has protected

968
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:45,799
Speaker 10: the Macharics and the Unchettas, and on and on and on,

969
00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:48,120
Speaker 10: and he's going to have to look very carefully into this.

970
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:49,799
Speaker 10: John Paul wasn't able to do it, and we know

971
00:51:49,840 --> 00:51:50,960
Speaker 10: he would like to have done it.

972
00:51:52,600 --> 00:51:53,480
Speaker 5: Benedict was not.

973
00:51:53,440 --> 00:51:55,120
Speaker 10: Able to do it, and we know he would like

974
00:51:55,160 --> 00:51:58,400
Speaker 10: to have done it. Francis talked about it, he issued

975
00:51:58,440 --> 00:52:01,399
Speaker 10: some documents, but was still not very far from where

976
00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:03,960
Speaker 10: we were when he became pope. So this is a

977
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:09,640
Speaker 10: burning issue life and redefining sexuality in the family in

978
00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:12,960
Speaker 10: a way that makes sense. And stands strong against the

979
00:52:13,120 --> 00:52:15,720
Speaker 10: activism of these homosexual groups.

980
00:52:16,320 --> 00:52:18,759
Speaker 2: Father, I want you to invite you into this. I

981
00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:20,200
Speaker 2: know you're probably champion it a bit.

982
00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:20,800
Speaker 5: Go ahead.

983
00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:23,799
Speaker 9: Yeah, No, Bob's got a very good point. And this

984
00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:26,960
Speaker 9: goes back to what member Bishop Morlino, who made a

985
00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:29,680
Speaker 9: speech to the US bishops and says, you know, we

986
00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:32,520
Speaker 9: have to confront the fact that there's a homosexual problem

987
00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:35,239
Speaker 9: in the clergy and this cannot be tolerated. So what

988
00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:37,600
Speaker 9: it basically means is the Vatican has to make it

989
00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:42,360
Speaker 9: clear priests who are unchased, meaning they don't live, you know,

990
00:52:42,600 --> 00:52:48,120
Speaker 9: Christian teaching about sexual purity, they're unchased. They are a

991
00:52:48,120 --> 00:52:51,080
Speaker 9: blot on the priesthood. They have to reform their lives

992
00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:54,440
Speaker 9: or be removed. Because you can have a system in

993
00:52:54,480 --> 00:52:58,320
Speaker 9: which people are expected to teach a series of propositions

994
00:52:58,320 --> 00:53:00,680
Speaker 9: that the Church considers to be the true truth, and

995
00:53:00,760 --> 00:53:03,399
Speaker 9: yet they reject them in their own lives, and I'm

996
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:06,200
Speaker 9: sure in private tell people, you know, don't pay attention

997
00:53:06,280 --> 00:53:06,920
Speaker 9: to this stuff.

998
00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:07,960
Speaker 5: So that's a problem.

999
00:53:08,280 --> 00:53:12,120
Speaker 9: And then you know, the more general issue is is

1000
00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:14,440
Speaker 9: it the role of a bishop as a shepherd to

1001
00:53:14,480 --> 00:53:17,880
Speaker 9: protect the flock in ways that are going to upset

1002
00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:21,960
Speaker 9: some people, and it always is. You know, we're not

1003
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:25,840
Speaker 9: here to please governments, We're not here to please cooperations,

1004
00:53:26,640 --> 00:53:30,080
Speaker 9: We're not here to please the homosexual lobby, which says

1005
00:53:30,320 --> 00:53:34,839
Speaker 9: it's unfair that the Catholic Church stigmatizes what we do. Well,

1006
00:53:34,840 --> 00:53:38,040
Speaker 9: the answer is, you can go where you want as

1007
00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:41,239
Speaker 9: a person. We hope you'll embrace Catholicism, but don't try

1008
00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:44,359
Speaker 9: to subvert Catholic teaching in the name of Christ, saying well,

1009
00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:45,800
Speaker 9: Jesus was never severe.

1010
00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:47,600
Speaker 5: What do you mean he wasn't severe.

1011
00:53:47,719 --> 00:53:50,640
Speaker 9: Jesus is the author of the Bible, which says that

1012
00:53:50,680 --> 00:53:54,200
Speaker 9: homosexual activity is an abomination, So we have to get

1013
00:53:54,239 --> 00:53:54,799
Speaker 9: to that point.

1014
00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:58,920
Speaker 1: Raymond Cardinal Privos, now Pope Leo was head of the

1015
00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:02,040
Speaker 1: dicastria that selected and dispatched.

1016
00:54:02,080 --> 00:54:03,080
Speaker 2: We have to just say it.

1017
00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:08,120
Speaker 1: Many bishops, notably Bishop Strickland in the United States in Tyler, Texas,

1018
00:54:08,719 --> 00:54:12,640
Speaker 1: Bishop ray in France, both were removed, one for saying

1019
00:54:12,680 --> 00:54:16,880
Speaker 1: things on social media that you was overboard about Pope Francis.

1020
00:54:17,160 --> 00:54:21,080
Speaker 1: One for being too orthodox and having really thriving seminarians

1021
00:54:21,160 --> 00:54:24,080
Speaker 1: in the diocese, but they were too traditional for the

1022
00:54:24,120 --> 00:54:27,640
Speaker 1: Vatican's taste. I read one story where Provos ran the

1023
00:54:27,760 --> 00:54:31,120
Speaker 1: visitation that looked into Bishop Ray.

1024
00:54:31,719 --> 00:54:33,080
Speaker 2: Your thoughts on.

1025
00:54:33,520 --> 00:54:36,279
Speaker 1: What this tells us and do you think it might

1026
00:54:36,400 --> 00:54:40,600
Speaker 1: restore or he might restore those bishops back to practice.

1027
00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:46,799
Speaker 10: Bob Well about Strickland, I'm doubtful, although I don't have

1028
00:54:46,840 --> 00:54:51,440
Speaker 10: any insight, any insight into that that I think was

1029
00:54:51,560 --> 00:54:55,040
Speaker 10: kind of a personal clash that Bishop Strickland had over

1030
00:54:55,080 --> 00:54:57,960
Speaker 10: what he thought but Francis was doing and often his

1031
00:54:59,080 --> 00:55:03,400
Speaker 10: arguments were well were well taken. This question in France

1032
00:55:03,520 --> 00:55:07,400
Speaker 10: bothers me a bit more because when someone is described

1033
00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:10,600
Speaker 10: as being too orthodox and they have too many seminarians

1034
00:55:10,640 --> 00:55:15,080
Speaker 10: coming in and the dioces is flourishing, it seems to

1035
00:55:15,120 --> 00:55:20,040
Speaker 10: me to be normal human reaction to look at it

1036
00:55:20,080 --> 00:55:21,640
Speaker 10: and say, hey, why is this working?

1037
00:55:21,960 --> 00:55:24,400
Speaker 1: Too many people want salvation, too many people want to

1038
00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:25,160
Speaker 1: serve Jesus.

1039
00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:25,840
Speaker 2: What's happening?

1040
00:55:25,840 --> 00:55:26,160
Speaker 1: You know?

1041
00:55:26,640 --> 00:55:28,880
Speaker 10: People are showing up and they want to be priests. Well,

1042
00:55:29,040 --> 00:55:31,440
Speaker 10: why is there there anything wrong with that? And if look,

1043
00:55:31,480 --> 00:55:33,719
Speaker 10: if they're going overboard, and maybe they are, you know,

1044
00:55:33,960 --> 00:55:35,880
Speaker 10: maybe there's a there's a kind of a spirit of

1045
00:55:36,239 --> 00:55:39,480
Speaker 10: rebellion that can even take place in these traditional plays. Well,

1046
00:55:39,760 --> 00:55:42,080
Speaker 10: you don't abolish it, though. What you try to do

1047
00:55:42,239 --> 00:55:44,480
Speaker 10: is you try to work with them. And we hear

1048
00:55:44,560 --> 00:55:48,920
Speaker 10: a lot that Cardinal Prevost was a listener, that he

1049
00:55:48,960 --> 00:55:52,560
Speaker 10: would listen and proceed in a kind of a calm

1050
00:55:52,600 --> 00:55:55,479
Speaker 10: and mature way to make decisions. So I'm a little

1051
00:55:55,480 --> 00:55:58,279
Speaker 10: worried about that, of course, because it just seems to

1052
00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:02,800
Speaker 10: me inexplicable. It could be that somebody put pressure on him.

1053
00:56:03,360 --> 00:56:07,720
Speaker 10: Certainly in the case of the appointment of McElroy in Washington,

1054
00:56:07,800 --> 00:56:10,040
Speaker 10: d C. We have to think that that was the

1055
00:56:10,040 --> 00:56:14,399
Speaker 10: hand of the Pope specifically reaching in there and saying

1056
00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:17,719
Speaker 10: I want him moving from San Diego to Washington, d C.

1057
00:56:18,320 --> 00:56:21,160
Speaker 10: So some of these decisions may not be entirely his,

1058
00:56:21,400 --> 00:56:24,480
Speaker 10: but he's going to have to take on the responsibilities. Now,

1059
00:56:24,480 --> 00:56:26,080
Speaker 10: if we don't want a church that is just going

1060
00:56:26,120 --> 00:56:30,560
Speaker 10: to continue to collapse, and you know, it'll have a

1061
00:56:30,680 --> 00:56:33,720
Speaker 10: large number of faithful people, but it'll continue to collapse.

1062
00:56:33,760 --> 00:56:38,640
Speaker 10: Its influence will continue to collapse. The evangelization, the carrying

1063
00:56:38,960 --> 00:56:42,080
Speaker 10: out of the message of Jesus to the world begins

1064
00:56:42,120 --> 00:56:44,480
Speaker 10: to be weaker and weaker. We don't want that. Then

1065
00:56:44,520 --> 00:56:46,560
Speaker 10: we need to take some new directions and it's not

1066
00:56:46,640 --> 00:56:48,839
Speaker 10: the ones that we've had the past twelve years. There

1067
00:56:48,880 --> 00:56:49,960
Speaker 10: was no Francis effect.

1068
00:56:51,719 --> 00:56:53,480
Speaker 2: Father, Do you want to add anything there quickly?

1069
00:56:53,680 --> 00:56:53,839
Speaker 3: Well?

1070
00:56:53,920 --> 00:56:54,279
Speaker 5: So, yes.

1071
00:56:54,360 --> 00:56:57,719
Speaker 9: I think it's incumbent on the Pope restore or to

1072
00:56:57,719 --> 00:57:01,000
Speaker 9: give an assignment to bishops who are in ways I

1073
00:57:01,040 --> 00:57:05,399
Speaker 9: consider unjust. Bishop Daniel Fernandez and Puerto Rico has no assignment.

1074
00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:07,920
Speaker 9: He should be made a bishop of adiaces or an

1075
00:57:07,960 --> 00:57:12,040
Speaker 9: auxiliary bishop, same with Strickland and Bishop Ray. He was

1076
00:57:12,120 --> 00:57:16,320
Speaker 9: mistreated and he should also be given an assignment because

1077
00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:19,280
Speaker 9: the Pope basically removed them in their diocese as a

1078
00:57:19,280 --> 00:57:22,000
Speaker 9: form of punishment, but he didn't suspend them, so they

1079
00:57:22,040 --> 00:57:26,200
Speaker 9: still fully function as priests and mass and confession. This

1080
00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:27,840
Speaker 9: is an anomalous situation.

1081
00:57:28,040 --> 00:57:28,960
Speaker 5: It shouldn't happen.

1082
00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:30,160
Speaker 2: Okay.

1083
00:57:30,160 --> 00:57:32,600
Speaker 1: We talked about the sex abuse crisis a little earlier

1084
00:57:32,640 --> 00:57:35,720
Speaker 1: and how Pope Francis shielded friends and colleagues at times

1085
00:57:35,760 --> 00:57:39,480
Speaker 1: from justice, ignoring the Christ of victims. It has to

1086
00:57:39,520 --> 00:57:42,760
Speaker 1: be said Pope Leo has his own record in Peru

1087
00:57:42,960 --> 00:57:46,720
Speaker 1: and Chicago that has gotten some coverage since yesterday.

1088
00:57:47,800 --> 00:57:48,479
Speaker 2: A number of.

1089
00:57:48,360 --> 00:57:50,959
Speaker 1: Girls in Peru claimed a priest abuse them. They went

1090
00:57:51,000 --> 00:57:56,200
Speaker 1: to privos and they claim no investigation was ever opened.

1091
00:57:56,880 --> 00:57:59,240
Speaker 1: What will Pope Leo's approach be. Do you think to

1092
00:57:59,320 --> 00:58:02,080
Speaker 1: restore confidence and transparency in the church?

1093
00:58:02,240 --> 00:58:03,200
Speaker 2: What is required now?

1094
00:58:03,320 --> 00:58:03,600
Speaker 5: Father?

1095
00:58:03,760 --> 00:58:08,320
Speaker 9: Briefly, well, this case in Peru, I read from the

1096
00:58:08,360 --> 00:58:10,880
Speaker 9: point of view of the complaining people, meaning the people

1097
00:58:10,920 --> 00:58:14,560
Speaker 9: feel offended by what Cardinal prevost how we handled the matter.

1098
00:58:14,920 --> 00:58:16,440
Speaker 9: I think it would be good if we got an

1099
00:58:16,480 --> 00:58:20,240
Speaker 9: explanation of that. The Peruvian bishops issued a statement a

1100
00:58:20,240 --> 00:58:24,640
Speaker 9: while ago saying that he did everything right. The candid

1101
00:58:24,720 --> 00:58:27,720
Speaker 9: lawyer for the three girls who say they're abused by

1102
00:58:27,760 --> 00:58:30,360
Speaker 9: two priests say he didn't, So I think we need

1103
00:58:30,440 --> 00:58:34,480
Speaker 9: enlightenment on that. There's also the case in Chicago, whereas

1104
00:58:34,560 --> 00:58:38,400
Speaker 9: head of the Augustinian Order, he assigned a priest to

1105
00:58:38,440 --> 00:58:41,960
Speaker 9: live who had been accused by multiple accusations and sexual

1106
00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:45,240
Speaker 9: abuse of minus. He was put into a rectory which

1107
00:58:45,320 --> 00:58:48,800
Speaker 9: was located in close proximity to a Catholic grammar school.

1108
00:58:49,240 --> 00:58:52,320
Speaker 9: And that this was in fact something that Cardinal Supek

1109
00:58:52,400 --> 00:58:57,640
Speaker 9: had apologized for previously doing a similar assignment. So those

1110
00:58:57,680 --> 00:59:02,480
Speaker 9: things should be dealt with. And you know, the Pope

1111
00:59:02,560 --> 00:59:05,479
Speaker 9: if he says, you know, I regret decisions I made

1112
00:59:05,480 --> 00:59:08,240
Speaker 9: and I apologize, it'll be over. I mean, that's just

1113
00:59:08,320 --> 00:59:09,440
Speaker 9: the way you clear things up.

1114
00:59:09,480 --> 00:59:11,920
Speaker 1: Well, as you said the other day, just let a

1115
00:59:12,000 --> 00:59:17,800
Speaker 1: due process trial and investigation proceed and then show no

1116
00:59:17,920 --> 00:59:19,240
Speaker 1: favoritism to anyone.

1117
00:59:19,600 --> 00:59:21,040
Speaker 2: Everyone is under the same law.

1118
00:59:21,280 --> 00:59:24,320
Speaker 1: That would restore I think confidence if we just did

1119
00:59:24,360 --> 00:59:27,760
Speaker 1: that over and under before we go. Will he live

1120
00:59:27,800 --> 00:59:29,240
Speaker 1: in the Apostolic.

1121
00:59:28,680 --> 00:59:34,360
Speaker 10: Palace, Bob, Yes, yes, yes, I think that what we

1122
00:59:34,440 --> 00:59:37,720
Speaker 10: saw by the way he presented himself and whatnot. And remember,

1123
00:59:37,760 --> 00:59:43,800
Speaker 10: Francis didn't go to Santa Marta because it's uncomfortable or

1124
00:59:43,800 --> 00:59:46,160
Speaker 10: it's humble. He just didn't want to be isolated. And

1125
00:59:46,160 --> 00:59:48,880
Speaker 10: I think it's a much better place for the pope

1126
00:59:48,880 --> 00:59:50,880
Speaker 10: to be and he probably understands that as well.

1127
00:59:50,960 --> 00:59:52,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, Father agreed.

1128
00:59:53,560 --> 00:59:56,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, And let's face it, it's more humble dwellings than

1129
00:59:56,760 --> 00:59:57,560
Speaker 1: the Santa Martin.

1130
00:59:57,600 --> 00:59:58,320
Speaker 2: I've been to both.

1131
00:59:58,400 --> 01:00:01,080
Speaker 1: I can tell you ones like the hill. The other

1132
01:00:01,520 --> 01:00:05,120
Speaker 1: is like a little hostel. The Apostolic Palace is not

1133
01:00:05,200 --> 01:00:08,200
Speaker 1: as the hallways are grand, but the room it's a

1134
01:00:08,320 --> 01:00:10,560
Speaker 1: tiny room. Yeah, I mean it's not much and it's

1135
01:00:10,640 --> 01:00:13,400
Speaker 1: drafty in the winter. One last caveat this is not

1136
01:00:13,880 --> 01:00:16,360
Speaker 1: a president or Prime Minister. This is the two hundred

1137
01:00:16,360 --> 01:00:19,760
Speaker 1: and sixty seventh successor of Saint Peter the Apostle, the

1138
01:00:19,800 --> 01:00:22,320
Speaker 1: Prince of the Apostles, and there is grace that it

1139
01:00:22,400 --> 01:00:24,840
Speaker 1: comes with that office, and that's getting lost in a

1140
01:00:24,880 --> 01:00:27,640
Speaker 1: lot of these conversations I'm seeing in the media. It

1141
01:00:27,680 --> 01:00:31,280
Speaker 1: has power to not only remake the church, but the man.

1142
01:00:31,080 --> 01:00:33,400
Speaker 2: Who holds that office. We will watch the.

1143
01:00:33,400 --> 01:00:36,920
Speaker 1: Rise of Pope Leo the fourteenth together and pray that

1144
01:00:36,960 --> 01:00:40,320
Speaker 1: God guides him and shapes him in these days to come.

1145
01:00:41,920 --> 01:00:44,080
Speaker 1: I hope you'll come back to a Royo Grande soon

1146
01:00:44,160 --> 01:00:47,320
Speaker 1: and the posse I think we'll keep rolling on.

1147
01:00:47,440 --> 01:00:48,080
Speaker 2: What do you think?

1148
01:00:48,240 --> 01:00:51,640
Speaker 1: Drop a comment below and make sure you subscribe to

1149
01:00:51,720 --> 01:00:55,000
Speaker 1: the Royal Grande podcast on our YouTube channel wherever you

1150
01:00:55,040 --> 01:00:58,080
Speaker 1: get your podcasts, and like us, why live a dry,

1151
01:00:58,320 --> 01:01:00,760
Speaker 1: narrow trickle of a life when if you fill it

1152
01:01:00,800 --> 01:01:03,800
Speaker 1: with good things, it can flow into a broad, thriving

1153
01:01:04,400 --> 01:01:05,320
Speaker 1: Arroyo Grande.

1154
01:01:05,880 --> 01:01:08,520
Speaker 2: I'm raiming Arroyo. We'll see you next time. Thanks for

1155
01:01:08,640 --> 01:01:10,200
Speaker 2: diving in. By No.

1156
01:01:11,440 --> 01:01:15,160
Speaker 1: Arroyo Grande is produced in partnership with iHeart Podcasts and

1157
01:01:15,200 --> 01:01:17,360
Speaker 1: it's available on the iHeartRadio Apple

1158
01:01:17,360 --> 01:01:31,520
Speaker 2: Wherever you get your podcasts