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Speaker 2: All right, welcome to tonight. You're at the volume heavy Wednesday.
Speaker 2: Everybody hope loth you guys are having a great week.
Speaker 2: Today we are going to do a deep dive series
Speaker 2: preview on a series that is going to be between
Speaker 2: two very interesting and somewhat similar teams in the Indiana
Speaker 2: Pacers and the Cleveland Cavaliers. I could think of nobody
Speaker 2: better than our favorite person who covers the calves in
Speaker 2: the league, mister Carter Rodriguez. You guys might recognize him.
Speaker 2: He's been on the show a few times before. Very
Speaker 2: busy man this time year, as are all of us,
Speaker 2: and he was kind enough to donate some of his
Speaker 2: time to help us get a little bit more familiar
Speaker 2: with this matchup. Carter, First of all, how you doing man?
Speaker 4: Doing good? I love coming on here. I think you
Speaker 4: do such a good job covering I know our our listeners.
Speaker 4: You know there are national guys who get on on
Speaker 4: the list so to speak, that people that they get
Speaker 4: grumpy with you are luckily in the good graces of
Speaker 4: many of our of our of our listeners for your
Speaker 4: coverage of the team. So I've always appreciated your perspective
Speaker 4: on hoops.
Speaker 3: Glad to be on.
Speaker 2: I really appreciate that. I'm glad to hear that we're
Speaker 2: having some support over at the Chase Down. You guys
Speaker 2: have done amazing work over the years. It's been fun
Speaker 2: to watch your guys' pod grow. So just kind of
Speaker 2: big picture, I've been talking about this on my show,
Speaker 2: like I think that there are some similarities between the
Speaker 2: Pacers and the Calves in a league that we have
Speaker 2: so many different types of styles. You've watched these like
Speaker 2: slow down, methodical, big and strong teams. You see these
Speaker 2: like matchup attacking, high pick and role heliocentric style teams.
Speaker 2: You've got these very driven, kick oriented, spacing oriented teams
Speaker 2: like Boston, and then we've got these like speed equal
Speaker 2: opportunity type of teams. And what I found fascinating is
Speaker 2: you have some similarities in the way that both of
Speaker 2: these teams like to pressure the ball and they like
Speaker 2: to try to force turnovers. And get out in transition.
Speaker 2: Both of these teams can struggle a little bit with
Speaker 2: defensive rebounding because they have some perimeter size shortcomings or
Speaker 2: interior strength kind of shortcomings. From time to time. Both
Speaker 2: teams are very much like everyone's free. Like, you're going
Speaker 2: to see Max Struce look to put the ball on
Speaker 2: the floor and make plays or take aggressive catch and
Speaker 2: shoot shots. You're going to see you know, Aaron Nesmith,
Speaker 2: you know, rip through a close out and pull back
Speaker 2: dribble and take a tough off the dribble jump shot
Speaker 2: in the mid range. You're going to see everybody on
Speaker 2: both teams look to be aggressive. It's very equal opportunity.
Speaker 2: A lot of games where you look at the box
Speaker 2: score and there's six dudes in double figures for both
Speaker 2: of these teams. So I think that there is a
Speaker 2: lot of similarities between these two teams. Has this been
Speaker 2: something that you've noticed throughout this season? If you what
Speaker 2: has been like your like fan perspective as a team
Speaker 2: in the Eastern Conference with legitimate championship aspirations watching the
Speaker 2: Pacers from Afar, Well, I just.
Speaker 4: Think they're I think they're a really really good team.
Speaker 4: I think I'm probably higher on this Pacers team than
Speaker 4: most of my peers in the Cavs community. I just
Speaker 4: I was in on them to start the year. My my,
Speaker 4: my beloved co host, Justin Rohan was much much lower
Speaker 4: on them.
Speaker 3: They finally won him over.
Speaker 4: You know, I just think I think they I think
Speaker 4: much like this Cavs offense, especially this year, there's kind
Speaker 4: of been you know, the offenses can be so electric
Speaker 4: and so exciting that sometimes it belies some of the
Speaker 4: ability on the other end of the floor for both
Speaker 4: of these teams, you know, the ability to pressure the ball,
Speaker 4: the ability to play big. You know, this is another
Speaker 4: two big team.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 4: You know, I got to feel really good about my
Speaker 4: my Cavaliers being trendsetters with all these two big land
Speaker 4: ups popping up all over the all over the league.
Speaker 4: But like, you know, I just think they can play
Speaker 4: a lot of defensive styles. You know, they despite having
Speaker 4: you know, a perceived week we clink at the top
Speaker 4: of the chain and you know, Darius and and tyresee defensively.
Speaker 4: You know, I do think there are real differences. You know,
Speaker 4: I think in terms of perimeter shot creation, Indy is
Speaker 4: just not you know, they don't got a Donovan Mitchell,
Speaker 4: you know, like Haliburton can go through stretches of that,
Speaker 4: but I don't think that's like his favorite way to play.
Speaker 4: And like I think like they lean a little more
Speaker 4: egalitarian than the Calves in that sense, like you know,
Speaker 4: when Robert meets the Road, it's gonna be a lot
Speaker 4: of Donovan Mitchell for the Calves. And similarly on the
Speaker 4: other side of the floor, I don't think the Calves
Speaker 4: have a blender in the post like Pascal Siakam. So
Speaker 4: you know, I do think like there are similarities in
Speaker 4: the build, especially like in how these teams have kind
Speaker 4: of come up small market, mostly homegrown, mostly you know,
Speaker 4: organically built or you know, really smartly built piece by
Speaker 4: piece as opposed to like one cataclysmic sea change type
Speaker 4: of you know, a headline grabbing move. But I do
Speaker 4: think there are different in ways that either team I
Speaker 4: think is actually gonna have a hard time matching each other.
Speaker 4: Like I I the joke I've kind of keep making
Speaker 4: after two, you know, relative laugh for a series in
Speaker 4: the first round that that ridiculous comeback last night nonwithstanding,
Speaker 4: is that is that I kind of feel like both
Speaker 4: teams are going to be shell shocked in the first quarter.
Speaker 3: On offense, We're.
Speaker 4: Like, wait, you you can do something to make our
Speaker 4: our offense harder, because just neither team really had any resistance.
Speaker 4: I mean, Andy was assisting on like seventy six percent
Speaker 4: of their field goals at one point. It was like
Speaker 4: just an outrageous like twelve fourteen percent higher than number two.
Speaker 4: In the playoffs, the Calves obviously posted the best offensive
Speaker 4: series in the history of the sport by offensive rating
Speaker 4: against Miami. I do think both these teams are like, oh, wait, okay,
Speaker 4: this is actually what playoff hoops was supposed to be.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, there are these obvious differences. I'm glad
Speaker 2: you pointed out the Mitchell Siakam piece because there is
Speaker 2: like a certain amount of Tyrese Haliburton through his high
Speaker 2: level playmaking and Darius Garland through his just relentless dribble
Speaker 2: penetration will start the engine, so to speak, for both
Speaker 2: of these teams in the half court. But the Pacers
Speaker 2: have like this low post matchup attacking option that they
Speaker 2: can go to, and you also see like a two
Speaker 2: man game element with him in Tyrese Haliburton, and then
Speaker 2: with the Calves you have this as we've seen, particularly
Speaker 2: in the two Celtics wins that they had this year,
Speaker 2: Like in Crunch Time, they have a guy that can
Speaker 2: pick on a matchup and just create his own shot
Speaker 2: over and over and over again from the perimeter, which
Speaker 2: Tires can do. But it's as you mentioned, it's a
Speaker 2: lot more of like he likes to dribble, drive against
Speaker 2: switches and either kick to shooters or try to finish
Speaker 2: around the rim. It's not necessarily a mix it up,
Speaker 2: high level, over the top shot making type of approach.
Speaker 2: I love the part that you said earlier, just talking
Speaker 2: about how both of these teams are gonna kind of
Speaker 2: have like a certain amount of success against each other.
Speaker 2: Like there's certainly a challenge in the sense that Cleveland
Speaker 2: and Indiana present more resistance defensively than each other. But
Speaker 2: I do think both of these teams will score on
Speaker 2: each other. I think that there's a rhythm element to where,
Speaker 2: like I think we will see points in this series
Speaker 2: where it's like, WHOA, the Pacers are in a really
Speaker 2: good groove right now, or oh, the Calves are in
Speaker 2: a really good groove right now, manifest in different ways,
Speaker 2: Like the Calves are very much a higher volume three
Speaker 2: point shooting team that has multiple dudes on the floor
Speaker 2: that will take contested threes off the catch.
Speaker 3: When they're there.
Speaker 2: Max Strews and DeAndre Hunter's tested three point shooting in
Speaker 2: the Heat series was like eye popping, like it was amazing.
Speaker 2: Whereas the Pacers don't have as many guys who will
Speaker 2: shoot off the catch when they're being chased off the line.
Speaker 2: It's much more of like a close out attacking. They'll
Speaker 2: take a little bit more in the mid range off
Speaker 2: the ball. The Calves will take mid range and pick
Speaker 2: and roll from their main guys. But you'll see, like
Speaker 2: you know, guys driving closeouts and taken in the mid range.
Speaker 2: So it'll manifest in different ways. But I do think
Speaker 2: both teams will be able to score on each other.
Speaker 2: You look like you were about to say something. Did
Speaker 2: you want to jump in Yeah, I'm just gonna say yeah.
Speaker 4: I think, you know, I think on both sides of
Speaker 4: the ball, it's just going to be a lot. I
Speaker 4: think it's it's going to be harder work for these
Speaker 4: defenses too. Again, these seems are just better than who
Speaker 4: they played in the first round, So, like I know,
Speaker 4: it's like not a crazy it's a relatively obvious statement
Speaker 4: if you pull the camera back enough. But like, you know,
Speaker 4: I think for the Cavs, you know, one thing that
Speaker 4: I'm really keeping an eye on guarding the Pacers is
Speaker 4: Siakham because this is a team that under Kenny Atkinson switched.
Speaker 3: Way, way, way way more than they did under JB. Bickerstaff.
Speaker 4: And you can do that against the Miami Heat, even
Speaker 4: against like a Bam out of Bayo, who's obviously grown
Speaker 4: a lot as an offensive player, but like still to
Speaker 4: this day, we'll like have a favorable matchup and won't
Speaker 4: demand the ball, you know, we'll kind of fill the
Speaker 4: dunker spot and kind of wait for a duck in
Speaker 4: as opposed to like you put Sam Merrill on a
Speaker 4: switch on Pascal Siakam. Siakam is going to find his
Speaker 4: way to the ball, He's going to get kind of
Speaker 4: the spin cycle going, he's going to draw fouls, he's
Speaker 4: going to make you send help, and then you get
Speaker 4: into rotation. I mean, Miami just could not break the
Speaker 4: Calves defensive shell. That was all four games. It was
Speaker 4: just you know, very I mean, on very very few
Speaker 4: occasions did the Calves even have to be disciplined in
Speaker 4: their rotations because.
Speaker 3: They were not in rotation.
Speaker 4: You know, I think I think Indy is going to
Speaker 4: be much better, uh situated to do that, primarily with Pascal,
Speaker 4: uh you know. And then it takes me to a
Speaker 4: thing that the Cabs didn't break out too much against
Speaker 4: the Heat, but they broke out a ton of the
Speaker 4: regular season, which is how often are they going to
Speaker 4: go zone? Because if there's one thing that makes post
Speaker 4: catches difficult and Matt mismatch hunting difficult, it's a it's
Speaker 4: a good old two three zone. In one of the
Speaker 4: games the Cavs beat the Pacers earlier in the year
Speaker 4: that see I come cook them in the entire first half.
Speaker 4: He only had like three attempts in the second half
Speaker 4: because they just zoned him up and said, hey, we're
Speaker 4: not going to just let you catch it on the
Speaker 4: block and bump bump, spin shoot. So like that schematic
Speaker 4: question is going to be really interesting to me, is
Speaker 4: are they going to go zone to try to block
Speaker 4: off the Pascal post up, you know, blender because he
Speaker 4: even kicking good shots on Mobile and Alan, you know,
Speaker 4: like he's he's job, he's a great player. He's done
Speaker 4: a nice job even against our best defenders. And if
Speaker 4: you go zone, does that open up a three point machine?
Speaker 4: You know, as you mentioned, they're not the best contested
Speaker 4: three point shooters, but like it's a pretty good open
Speaker 4: three point generating machine. And zone you are dancing with
Speaker 4: that a little bit.
Speaker 2: The Pacers will burn you with wide open three point
Speaker 2: shooting there with that core five man lineup, there's not
Speaker 2: really a guy in that group that if you left open,
Speaker 2: is just going to consistently miss. And like the big
Speaker 2: one is Nie Smith. Like Nie Smith working up into
Speaker 2: the mid forties just makes him an entirely different type
Speaker 2: of player than he was in the past. And the
Speaker 2: you know, the piece with Siakam like on the film.
Speaker 2: And actually, let me just i we'll start with the
Speaker 2: Pacers on offense here in a minute. Let me quickly
Speaker 2: go through our series metrics, just so that everyone knows
Speaker 2: this is basically what happened during the regular season. There
Speaker 2: were guys in and out of the lineup NonStop. Jared
Speaker 2: Allen played in all four games, but no one else did.
Speaker 2: Andrew Nemhard and Miles Turner were the only starters to
Speaker 2: play in all four for Indie Tyres. Haliburton only played
Speaker 2: in two games. The only game where most of the
Speaker 2: starters played against each other was their first matchup back
Speaker 2: on January twelfth. It's a very weird game. The Calves
Speaker 2: controlled the game for about two and a half quarters
Speaker 2: and then the indie bench group just beat the shit
Speaker 2: out of the Calves. And it was kind of a
Speaker 2: weird game because Ty Jerome was out, so it was
Speaker 2: like back in the Karis Lavert days, and you know,
Speaker 2: Karris Lavert not as just not as gifted as a
Speaker 2: backup guard. The Calves completely lost control during that stretch.
Speaker 2: The Pacers brought a bunch of full court pressure too,
Speaker 2: and the Calves kind of just fell apart in that stretch.
Speaker 2: It kind of felt a lot like regular season basketball,
Speaker 2: like it was just it was one of those games.
Speaker 4: Well, I'll say, dude, that is that remains the one
Speaker 4: thing I kind of keep looking at the Calves for
Speaker 4: in terms of, like, you know, a thing that they
Speaker 4: just have consistently demonstrated they don't love dealing with is
Speaker 4: ball pressure. You know, big physical, you know, like everyone
Speaker 4: thinks it's long wings, It's not long wings. It is
Speaker 4: dudes who get into your chest and make a Arius
Speaker 4: and Donovan back up like they love a drop coverage, dude,
Speaker 4: Like they love They love, you know, being able to
Speaker 4: survey and use their in and out dribbles and operate
Speaker 4: in the tight spaces that the drop affords them.
Speaker 3: They love that.
Speaker 4: They do not like it when they're backing up, especially
Speaker 4: Darius because you know his size and athletic limitations. You know,
Speaker 4: it's hard for him if he's not turning the corner consistently.
Speaker 4: So I thought they passed a really nice test in
Speaker 4: the first round Davion. They they tried that with Davion, Mitchell,
Speaker 4: Pelo Larson, guys who tried to beat them up a
Speaker 4: little bit more like that was clearly something Spoe went
Speaker 4: to from like Game two onward didn't matter.
Speaker 3: So like like easy.
Speaker 4: Mode test passed gets a little bit harder when it's
Speaker 4: Niee Smith and nim Hard and McConnell, uh, you know,
Speaker 4: being nasty and physical with them.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 4: So that's one thing I'm really keeping an eye on
Speaker 4: is the paces are going to probably pick up full court,
Speaker 4: would be my guess for big stretches of this series.
Speaker 4: I think they're going to try to hide Haliburton on Strus,
Speaker 4: on Hunter on anyone who's playing the three, and it's
Speaker 4: going to be a matter of is the pressure going
Speaker 4: to stop the Cavs offense from flowing? Didn't work for
Speaker 4: didn't work for Miami, But like the personnel is just
Speaker 4: better bam out of bio accepted in Indy.
Speaker 2: So yeah, that January twelve game was a great example
Speaker 2: of what you're talking about. They were also playing up
Speaker 2: in passing lanes off of the ball pressure too, so
Speaker 2: like as Garland and Mitchell would try to move the
Speaker 2: ball up the floor, there was some turnovers in those
Speaker 2: sorts of situations.
Speaker 4: Go ahead, But I do think this is interesting, Like
Speaker 4: that's where like the physical limitations of a Darius or
Speaker 4: Adonoman come in, because like if you're backpedaling, it's hard
Speaker 4: to put pace on those passes. Oh no, like it's
Speaker 4: really really hard to. You know, Like Darius, if he's
Speaker 4: going to make a cross court pass, he's not Luke
Speaker 4: or Lebron, like he's got to step into it. So
Speaker 4: if all his momentum is going that way and he's
Speaker 4: trying to get at the opposite direction, that's where you
Speaker 4: get kind of those ducks that Indy can go pick
Speaker 4: off playing the passing lanes as aggressively as they were.
Speaker 2: We saw Jarris Walker have some success to on the
Speaker 2: Calves guards with just some pressure and back pressure and
Speaker 2: poking away at the basketball. There was definitely some interesting
Speaker 2: stuff in that game. But then at the same time,
Speaker 2: we had another game later in the season where the
Speaker 2: Pacers played all their guys and the Calves sent a
Speaker 2: skeleton crew down to Indy and they almost beat them anyway,
Speaker 2: And a big part of that is ty Jerome is
Speaker 2: just incredible. And when we get to Calves on offense,
Speaker 2: I want to focus on that for a minute, because
Speaker 2: there's like a level that the Calves are at right
Speaker 2: now that is even higher than they were at any
Speaker 2: point during the regular season. We did get a look
Speaker 2: at some of the ways they were defending Tyre's Halliburton,
Speaker 2: mainly just that Jared Allen wasn't coming too aggressively up
Speaker 2: to the level they were a little bit more willing
Speaker 2: to concede pull up threes to Halliburton. Haliburton's in a
Speaker 2: really good groove right now, which is going to be
Speaker 2: the first thing that we'll get to. But metrics just
Speaker 2: for everybody. The Pacers ended up going three and one
Speaker 2: in the season series, but they had a negative net rating.
Speaker 2: They had a one ozh six offensive rating, the Calves
Speaker 2: at a one oh nine offensive rating, So the Calves
Speaker 2: actually outscored him by three point three points per one
Speaker 2: hundred possessions in the four matchups. The Pacers did win
Speaker 2: the rebounding battle by small margin, grabbing fifty one point
Speaker 2: three percent of available rebounds, but once again, not really
Speaker 2: anything worth digging too far into there. I found that
Speaker 2: to be the case in almost all of my series previews.
Speaker 2: You're really just looking at like individual matchups, what it
Speaker 2: looks like. Oh, here's a few possessions of Siakam and
Speaker 2: Mobilely going at each other.
Speaker 3: This is what it.
Speaker 2: Looks like like that kind of stuff. But let's start
Speaker 2: with the Pacers on offense. And so I want to
Speaker 2: start with the idea of the Halliburton pick and roll,
Speaker 2: so it it will manifest in a bunch of different ways,
Speaker 2: a lot of him two man game with Siakam, where
Speaker 2: teams will often look to switch and attack in the post,
Speaker 2: like we talked about earlier. But I want to start
Speaker 2: with the Tyres Halliburton, Miles Turner pick and pop, which
Speaker 2: is the foundation concept of what makes the Pacers offense work.
Speaker 2: So how do you think the Calves will go about
Speaker 2: trying to contain the tyres Haliburton pick and roll.
Speaker 4: I think this is going to be you know, I've
Speaker 4: spent a lot of time of this appearance so far
Speaker 4: talking about the things I think Andy is really good at,
Speaker 4: because I do think it's going to be swept under
Speaker 4: the rug. I think talking about a rude awakening going
Speaker 4: from a you know, sometimes Dame Lillard Brook Lopez pick
Speaker 4: and roll or an aj Green Brook Lopez pick and
Speaker 4: roll defensive pair, to like it's going to be Max Druce,
Speaker 4: it's gonna be Isaac Okoro, it's going to be DeAndre
Speaker 4: Hunter uh and Evan Mogle or Jared Allen, and those
Speaker 4: guys are going to close out so much better. They're
Speaker 4: going to be much They're going to feel much safer
Speaker 4: switching the Miles Turner action. Like I I'm not sure,
Speaker 4: but if you were, if you had asked me what
Speaker 4: I thought, you know, Kenny's staff would say about uh
Speaker 4: death by Miles Turner switch post ups. I think they're
Speaker 4: pretty cool with that, you know. I just think like
Speaker 4: that is not going to be a problem for them,
Speaker 4: especially with how not strong Indie is on the offensive boards.
Speaker 4: They were twenty ninth in the regular season. Like, if
Speaker 4: you're getting a men shot attempt from you know, a
Speaker 4: contested you know, twelve foot turnaround for Miles Turner, which
Speaker 4: is kind of his preferred type of post up anyway, Like,
Speaker 4: I think you're fine with that. I think even if
Speaker 4: you do play it straight and you hedge and recover,
Speaker 4: you know, the way Evan and Jarrett can close ground
Speaker 4: is just so much better than Bobby Portis or Brook Lopez. Like,
Speaker 4: I think that action is like not going to be
Speaker 4: there for them as much as they wanted to be.
Speaker 4: And like I think, and frankly, if you're the Pacers, you're,
Speaker 4: in my opinion, you're kind of doing the Calves a
Speaker 4: favor by not having Siakam in that screen almost every
Speaker 4: time now, like and just kind of depending on Turner
Speaker 4: as more of a spacer. That's kind of what I
Speaker 4: would do if I were Indy, just because I just
Speaker 4: think the Calves are really well equipped because they're not
Speaker 4: going to have Darius on Tyres, They're not going to
Speaker 4: have Donovan on Tyres. They're going to put their big, strong,
Speaker 4: long wings on him. And like, I don't think Max
Speaker 4: can hold up against Siakam, but he can hold his
Speaker 4: ground a little bit in the switch and but against Turner,
Speaker 4: like you kind of just got to be okay with
Speaker 4: that and trust that your help is going to be good.
Speaker 4: And I think the Calves help was so good in
Speaker 4: Miami series. Like I know Miami played a very very
Speaker 4: bad series, don't get me wrong, but like the timing
Speaker 4: was so dialed in from them that I think you
Speaker 4: can give up a short term disadvantage knowing that you're
Speaker 4: burning clock, you're eating more like if the Calves are
Speaker 4: making the pacers work into the bottom ten seconds of
Speaker 4: the shot clock, the possessions kind of already a win.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think that the early the early portion of the
Speaker 2: series will see less switching. I would especially early in games.
Speaker 2: One of the things I noticed on film is Jared
Speaker 2: Allen was very keyed on the pop. And what I
Speaker 2: mean by that is like in instead of coming up
Speaker 2: to the level where he's fully committing to basically being
Speaker 2: two on the ball and conceding the pick and pop,
Speaker 2: he's kind of making a judgment call based on how
Speaker 2: the on ball defenders doing so if the on ball
Speaker 2: defender is like fully compromised, then he'll jump over there
Speaker 2: and help. But if he sees that the on ball
Speaker 2: defenders in the position to flatten out the drive, he'll
Speaker 2: kind of be more keyed up towards Miles Turner. To
Speaker 2: your point, though, I think that action inevitably trends towards
Speaker 2: switching and Jared Allen having to hold up on an
Speaker 2: island against Tyreus Haliburton. Now, one of the things with
Speaker 2: Tyres that made him kind of go through the spiral
Speaker 2: that he went through over the previous year between the
Speaker 2: start of last year to where he is now, was
Speaker 2: he with the hamstring just didn't quite look very explosive
Speaker 2: attacking switches on the perimeter. As we saw last night
Speaker 2: against Giannis. There is a pretty important moment one, yeah, exactly,
Speaker 2: and it was an example of what the tug of
Speaker 2: war will look like.
Speaker 3: I think.
Speaker 2: I think a substantial part of the tug of war
Speaker 2: will be can Tyrese Haliburton get dribble penetration against the
Speaker 2: Cavs bigs in you know, ISO situations. But one of
Speaker 2: the things that's interesting about India is like they do
Speaker 2: not marry themselves to Tyrese Haliburton shot creation If it's
Speaker 2: not what the game calls for. And so one of
Speaker 2: the things that I think we could end up seeing,
Speaker 2: to your point, is like a lot more of Siakam
Speaker 2: action trying to get switches for Siakam to look to attack.
Speaker 2: And then I would not be surprised. I would assume
Speaker 2: that we're gonna end up seeing Donovan Mitchell guard Nemhard
Speaker 2: and Garland end up guarding Nie Smith, because that would
Speaker 2: be my Nie Smith is a little bit less of
Speaker 2: a threat as a movement shooter, although Nie Smith has
Speaker 2: a little bit more of a bag than I think
Speaker 2: people give him credit for. But I think they'll be
Speaker 2: more comfortable hedging and recovering with Garland out of Nie
Speaker 2: Smith action than they would out of Nemhart action. But
Speaker 2: don't be surprised if we end up seeing a little
Speaker 2: bit more of Nemhart on the ball in this series
Speaker 2: in the event that they view like they have a
Speaker 2: better opportunity to get him going. He's a good drop
Speaker 2: coverage player. He like last night, the first shot that
Speaker 2: got everything going for them, and that's you know run
Speaker 2: late in the game was him just coming off of
Speaker 2: ball screen and pulling up a three from you know
Speaker 2: thirty feet at the top of the key. Nem Hard
Speaker 2: can play or a Nie Smith can Yeah, Nemhrd can play.
Speaker 2: I get them all confused anyway. The ultimately, though, what
Speaker 2: I see what I see happening is the Pacers, whether
Speaker 2: it's through the Siakam post up double teams, which we
Speaker 2: did see plenty of that in the regular season, where
Speaker 2: the Calves tried to double Siakam out of the post,
Speaker 2: or if it's Haliburton beating someone off the dribble, or
Speaker 2: if it's Nie Smith bringing in or Nemhard bringing in
Speaker 2: low manhelp. I do think rotation basketball would be much
Speaker 2: more of a factor for the Calves in this series
Speaker 2: than it was against the Heat. They will have to
Speaker 2: fly around, they will have to make plays in rotation,
Speaker 2: but that push and pull, it's all about how much
Speaker 2: you get compromised that If Jared Allen can hold up
Speaker 2: pretty well on switches, if the Calves guards can hold
Speaker 2: up pretty well on switches against Theakam so they don't
Speaker 2: have to as dramatically overhelp in those sorts of situations,
Speaker 2: those are gonna be the kinds of things that have
Speaker 2: a large impact on the quality of looks that the
Speaker 2: Calves get that said, like, there is a flat out
Speaker 2: like shot making piece to what the Calves do, which
Speaker 2: is absolutely insane. And like, guys, they had a one
Speaker 2: thirty six offensive rating in the first round. They had
Speaker 2: a one eighteen half court offensive rating in the first round.
Speaker 2: There half court offensive rating was better than what the
Speaker 2: Boston Celtics posted overall in the offensive rating area in
Speaker 2: the first round against a Heat last year. Yes, very
Speaker 2: different team, but with Davion Mitchell and Andrew Wiggins out there,
Speaker 2: it's a different type. There's some defenders out there that
Speaker 2: they were just consistently compromising. It's shot making Ti Jerome
Speaker 2: and Donovan Mitchell's off the dribble shot making in that
Speaker 2: first round was absurd, Max Strus and DeAndre Hunter and
Speaker 2: there over the top shot making in catch and shoot
Speaker 2: situations was absurd. And so I think a big part
Speaker 2: of it is going to be, like, if the Calves
Speaker 2: shot making is there, there's not going to really be
Speaker 2: much at the Pacers do to stop them. So let's
Speaker 2: move to the Caves on offense. When we were talking
Speaker 2: about specific specific actions that you think the Calves will
Speaker 2: be leaning on as pet actions in the half court,
Speaker 2: what are you looking at for the Calves in the
Speaker 2: second round series.
Speaker 4: Well, they were a lot more aggressive in picking at
Speaker 4: weak points than I thought they were going to be
Speaker 4: in that heat series. Like they've been a pretty like
Speaker 4: we just run our offense the way we run it,
Speaker 4: and we'll just keep attacking till you mess up. And
Speaker 4: that was kind of their philosophy most of the regular season,
Speaker 4: and like that still helped true, don't get me wrong,
Speaker 4: Like the machine didn't stop worrying. But they were really mean,
Speaker 4: Like they were really mean to Tyler Hero. They and
Speaker 4: once they decided to stop being mean to Tyler Hero,
Speaker 4: they got really mean to kill el Ware and started
Speaker 4: really abusing him in space with with empty side pick
Speaker 4: and rolls.
Speaker 3: Jared Allen has kicked his ass man such a like.
Speaker 4: Like I keep joking because like Jared's such a sweet
Speaker 4: soul that I think people like don't don't think about
Speaker 4: it this way, and like in general, like you know,
Speaker 4: I think we can kind of flatten out that archetype
Speaker 4: of like I'm a I'm an athletic vertical rim protecting,
Speaker 4: finishing big that's my thing, you know, And I think
Speaker 4: sometimes we really flatten out that archetype and kind of
Speaker 4: assume everyone's about as good as each other, you know,
Speaker 4: because like they're all doing the same basic job, but
Speaker 4: like you don't really see how different that job can
Speaker 4: be in terms of how effective you can be doing
Speaker 4: it until you watch like Jared just abuse Kloware, like
Speaker 4: with how he's spacing his pick and roll dives and
Speaker 4: all that fun stuff.
Speaker 2: I want to cut you off for a second here,
Speaker 2: because this is something that that I feel victim too too.
Speaker 2: That what you're making, what the point you're trying to make,
Speaker 2: is very important, which is like people just like tie
Speaker 2: Jared Allen into the same tier as like Nick Claxton
Speaker 2: or like every other Robert Williams, Like, yeah, they're all
Speaker 2: just like the same. It's like this And by the way,
Speaker 2: I am admitting guilt here, I personally underrated Jared Allen
Speaker 2: coming into this stretch. I viewed him as just another
Speaker 2: one of these dudes who can defend and drop, do
Speaker 2: a little bit of switching and can be a vertical
Speaker 2: spacer as he's on the role. And it's like, it's
Speaker 2: so much more complicated than that. I watched Jared Allen
Speaker 2: kick the shit out of some really good players this
Speaker 2: year and had to head matchups, and it's the relentless
Speaker 2: rim running that was the big thing that he kept
Speaker 2: getting behind kellel Ware Like he just kept getting behind him,
Speaker 2: and that was really the problem was kelll just like
Speaker 2: kept getting into position where he was in a drop,
Speaker 2: but he still wasn't able to account for the role man,
Speaker 2: which is like, it's the whole purpose of the job
Speaker 2: is don't let the roller behind you the worst of
Speaker 2: both worlds exactly, and so like he'll do that. Jared
Speaker 2: Allen is like the type of release valve that you
Speaker 2: get from an Isaiah Hartenstein as a short range shot
Speaker 2: maker in terms of the types of little floaters and
Speaker 2: pushots that he can make. He is an ass kicker
Speaker 2: on the glass. And then the big thing is is
Speaker 2: on defense. He has become such a gifted switch defender
Speaker 2: that it unlocks so many different things for them defensively.
Speaker 2: And like I had to have my own little personal
Speaker 2: wake up call with Jared Allen this year where I'm like,
Speaker 2: this guy is not a league average replacement starting level center.
Speaker 2: He's in that upper tier of centers in this league.
Speaker 2: Maybe not in the same level as the guys at
Speaker 2: the top, but he's in that next tier below them,
Speaker 2: and that really is a talent piece that I think
Speaker 2: just gets consistently overrated with the Cavs. But anyway, you
Speaker 2: go back to what your YEA, Well, it's.
Speaker 4: Because it's not a bag related an understanding of where
Speaker 4: you are in space, and it's a coordination when you
Speaker 4: catch the ball, you know, you know, being able to
Speaker 4: take a pocket pass at your knees and not break
Speaker 4: your stride on the on your dive to the rim.
Speaker 4: Like it's all these little like game within a game
Speaker 4: type of types of things for him, And like that
Speaker 4: is where I think on offense, I think the Cavs
Speaker 4: this is going.
Speaker 3: To be a great series for the Cavs bigs.
Speaker 4: You know, I think Siakam's taking a couple of steps
Speaker 4: back as a defender as he's gotten a little bit older.
Speaker 4: You know, he went you know, he started his career
Speaker 4: as the defender, you know, chaos agent. I think he's
Speaker 4: just a little not bad by any means, but a
Speaker 4: little worse. And like I just think Turner is going
Speaker 4: from a series where it's kind of tailor made for him,
Speaker 4: where he's just way his footspeed is just way better
Speaker 4: than Brooke and he's way more physical and just straight
Speaker 4: up better than Bobby Portis, who's a player. I don't love,
Speaker 4: to be honest, I just don't think crazy highly of
Speaker 4: even though you know, I know he's been helpful for
Speaker 4: them and in big moments too, Like now he's going
Speaker 4: to have to not only protect the rim against you know,
Speaker 4: the relentless rim pressure of the Tiger Romes, the Dariuses
Speaker 4: and the Donovans of the world, but also not let
Speaker 4: them get behind him, to your point of, like you know,
Speaker 4: so like I wonder if they're going to try to
Speaker 4: hedge in show and try to do that because like switching,
Speaker 4: I don't know if I don't know if switching is
Speaker 4: the best idea for them.
Speaker 2: Don't think Turner is gonna be able to switch. I
Speaker 2: think that that's the interesting part. Like I think the
Speaker 2: Pacers actually have a little bit more playmaking talent in
Speaker 2: my opinion in terms of like overall passing talent. But
Speaker 2: I think that the calves are going to be able
Speaker 2: to compromise the Pacers more at the point of attack
Speaker 2: because of that big issue, which is like to your point,
Speaker 2: like it's just an entirely different animal in the front
Speaker 2: court that he's dealing with in this case, it's just
Speaker 2: going from you know, Kyle Kuzma to to Evan Mobley
Speaker 2: is just an entirely different animal.
Speaker 4: You know. Yeah, I just think I just think, like ideally,
Speaker 4: you know, I mean, I just think nim Hard Nie
Speaker 4: Smith's job is gonna it's one just gonna be really
Speaker 4: important in this series. I feel like they're probably like
Speaker 4: who I'm most keyed in on in terms of Indie's
Speaker 4: ability to keep this close. Like if they're fighting over
Speaker 4: these if they're fighting through these screens and staying connected
Speaker 4: to the back of the hip of Darius and Donovan
Speaker 4: and Tie, that is so much different than it if
Speaker 4: they're getting wiped out. I just think the Caps are
Speaker 4: going to get a wide open look.
Speaker 3: That's the series right there.
Speaker 2: What you're talking about is the series because stay Van
Speaker 2: Gundhi did a really nice job of breaking this down
Speaker 2: when he was discussing the uh uh oh No, I
Speaker 2: think it was actually zach Low. I think it was Zachlo.
Speaker 2: I think I was listening to Zachlo the other day.
Speaker 2: Did a beautiful job of explaining like why the Drew
Speaker 2: holiday trade was so damaging to the Bucks, and it
Speaker 2: was because in order to run the types of coverages
Speaker 2: that involve traditional bigs, meaning like not switching, but at
Speaker 2: the level coverages or drop coverages, things along those lines.
Speaker 2: You have to stay attached to the ball handler. You
Speaker 2: have to as soon as that piece falls off, your
Speaker 2: defense is going to get cut to pieces. Turner will
Speaker 2: get destroyed in space. So to your point, the dynamic
Speaker 2: of the ball pressure of Kniesmith and Nemhard, how would
Speaker 2: you if you were coaching the pacers, how would you
Speaker 2: match up those two?
Speaker 4: On Garland and Mitchell, I'm doing I'm going nim Hard
Speaker 4: on Darius because I think he is the slightly nastier,
Speaker 4: pushy er grab ear of the defenders, at least from
Speaker 4: what I watched. I won't pretend to be like, oh,
Speaker 4: hard core pacers expert year, but like I think, I
Speaker 4: think the nastier, uh more physical guy on Darius is
Speaker 4: probably the way i'd go. And Nie Smith just like,
Speaker 4: just do your job, stay and stay connected, do your best, fight,
Speaker 4: be tough and physical. But like you know, I think
Speaker 4: Donovan also just gets the line a little better than
Speaker 4: Darius does, you know, So like the pushy grabby stuff,
Speaker 4: Donovan's got a little bit better at the at the
Speaker 4: grift game, uh than than Darius, But I mean it's
Speaker 4: gonna be I just think those guys are gonna really
Speaker 4: gonna swing the series on both ends. Like because like
Speaker 4: to your point, on the other side, I know we're
Speaker 4: talking Cavs offense, nim Hart is gonna have to go
Speaker 4: beat up Donovan or Darius.
Speaker 2: One of those guys gonna have to do damage. That's
Speaker 2: that's an that's an important part of this too. The
Speaker 2: there there was some nem Hart spent some time on
Speaker 2: Mitchell in the regular season, and Mitchell was able to
Speaker 2: get separation against him easily. But this we've seen all
Speaker 2: the way back since the Brunson series last year. Like
Speaker 2: there's no doubt that uh uh that Nie Smith is
Speaker 2: a little bit vulnerable to over the top shot making
Speaker 2: because he's a little bit shorter or Nemhard, I should say,
Speaker 2: Nie Smith is a bigger, better athlete, and so I
Speaker 2: actually think that makes sense to match him up with
Speaker 2: Mitchell in terms of being able to get better contests
Speaker 2: on his pull up jump shots. But again, that's gonna
Speaker 2: be the The point you're making is important. The ball
Speaker 2: pressure matchup on both ends of the floor is going
Speaker 2: to be absolutely key, and whether it's on pacers, on offense,
Speaker 2: Nemhard being able to consistently compromise a guy like Donovan Mitchell,
Speaker 2: or if it's on the other end of the floor
Speaker 2: and it's like Mitchell keeps getting don keeps getting penetration
Speaker 2: against Nie Smith, or Garland keeps getting penetration against Nemhart.
Speaker 2: Those are going to be the starts of all of
Speaker 2: this because when the teams get into their flow, neither
Speaker 2: team is going to be able to stop each other.
Speaker 2: Once they get into their flow, it's gonna be who
Speaker 2: can stop the team from getting into the flow as
Speaker 2: often and.
Speaker 4: Who can crack the shell more consistently. And like, that's
Speaker 4: why I'm gonna pick the Cavs in the series, just
Speaker 4: because I think, you know, as much respect as I
Speaker 4: have for Indy, and I hope that's coming through Like
Speaker 4: I'm not this is in lip service. I think they're
Speaker 4: an awesome team. I think they're actually better than their
Speaker 4: record and better than their point differential at their best.
Speaker 4: I think Carlisle's the top three or four coach in
Speaker 4: the league. I just I just I really respect this team.
Speaker 4: But you just look at how many ways the Calves
Speaker 4: have to poke at you. You know, they're going to
Speaker 4: play two of Darius and Darius Donovan and tie for
Speaker 4: forty eight minutes. It's a ridiculous amount of perimeter creation.
Speaker 4: And then Evan has gotten so much better as a
Speaker 4: mismatch masher, a better shooter off the dribble, a better
Speaker 4: ability to drive against you know, fellow bigs and get
Speaker 4: them on his back hip as opposed to you know
Speaker 4: them just kind of sliding their feet with them. I
Speaker 4: just think they have more ways to make Indy send
Speaker 4: that second guy in the ball and you know, Indy,
Speaker 4: it's you know it's going to be. I think the
Speaker 4: Calves are going to live with what Indy does and
Speaker 4: switch and of just try to keep them in front
Speaker 4: of them until they absolutely can't. And I just think
Speaker 4: the Calves have more ways to.
Speaker 3: Do that right now. Yeah, I.
Speaker 2: When I look at the way that playoff series inevitably
Speaker 2: kind of trend as you start to figure out ways
Speaker 2: to shut down pet actions, you know, whether it's like,
Speaker 2: let's say the Calves figure out like, oh, like we
Speaker 2: can switch the turner Haliburton pick and roll boom, Like
Speaker 2: that's an advantage that we have there, Like oh, we
Speaker 2: on Siakam post ups. As long as we play the
Speaker 2: hide high side and force him towards the baseline and
Speaker 2: we double from the baseline, we can rotate out of
Speaker 2: it relatively quickly. It does tend to degenerate into matchup
Speaker 2: attacking basketball inevitably. And at that point, who do I
Speaker 2: think is the better team at hitting tough playoff shots?
Speaker 2: And I have Donovan Mitchell, I have Max Strus and
Speaker 2: DeAndre Hunter who can hit tough, contested catch and shoot
Speaker 2: jump shots. There's a level of off the dribble shot
Speaker 2: making with Ty Jerome. We didn't get to talk too
Speaker 2: much about Garland today. Actually, I think we both agree
Speaker 2: that we're picking I'm picking the Caves and six? Are
Speaker 2: you picking the Cabs and six?
Speaker 4: I'm gonna go in five? But I think, oh, okay,
Speaker 4: I think it could go seven very comfortably. I mean,
Speaker 4: I'm not sure Indy can win the series. Uh that
Speaker 4: is like probably the bridge I'm not willing to cross,
Speaker 4: and well, can you know, if things go really really,
Speaker 4: if everything goes perfect Brandy everything was bad for the Cabs,
Speaker 4: I think, and he can win the series. But like
Speaker 4: I think the range of outcomes, like if I were
Speaker 4: setting betting odds for like Calves and five cabs and
Speaker 4: six cabs and seven Indian seven, Like they'd all be
Speaker 4: like closer.
Speaker 3: Than you'd think from adds perspective.
Speaker 4: So I think is not as slight as much as
Speaker 4: I just think it's easier to close out of series
Speaker 4: at home than on the road.
Speaker 2: The the there's I was just really the the backup
Speaker 2: guard dynamic two between ty Drome and t J McConnell's
Speaker 2: another kind of interesting similarity between the two teams that
Speaker 2: all so manifests in a different way because TJ is
Speaker 2: just this TJ McConnell blows me away with his ability
Speaker 2: to beat people off the dribble. It's amazing, Like he.
Speaker 3: Just hosts people off the dribble all day.
Speaker 2: Look but tied to But Tie does it a little
Speaker 2: bit more methodically and does it a lot with like
Speaker 2: body position and leverage and it. But Ti Jerme, I
Speaker 2: think is a substantially better over the top shot maker.
Speaker 2: But are you worried at all about the Darius Garland
Speaker 2: toe injury? What are you hearing on that front? Like,
Speaker 2: how are you feeling about that particular situation. I'm about
Speaker 2: two minutes.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm no reporter, so you know, I only have
Speaker 4: what's available in front of me. You know, publicly, I'm
Speaker 4: going to be worried about it until I see him
Speaker 4: play and be good because that toe it. You know,
Speaker 4: as you know you were a hooper, Like toes are important.
Speaker 4: They're how you balance their how you push start and stop.
Speaker 4: And like Darius is a start and stop player, he
Speaker 4: is not a straight line. Let me just get ahead
Speaker 4: of steam and I'll be good type of player.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 4: I think with the back last year seizing up literally
Speaker 4: every every three minutes of game action, you could really
Speaker 4: see how much the inability to stop and start made
Speaker 4: his game flat and lose its flavor, you know. And
Speaker 4: you know the toe isn't as important as a back,
Speaker 4: but it's pretty darn important.
Speaker 3: Uh and uh.
Speaker 4: And you know he's gonna have ten full days off
Speaker 4: between games. You know, you can't ask for much better
Speaker 4: than that at this point of the year. So I
Speaker 4: think I think we'll know how serious the toe injury
Speaker 4: is when we see if he plays or not. If
Speaker 4: he's out in a game one, then I'm gonna be
Speaker 4: like pretty nervous. That's seriously concern. However, I still think
Speaker 4: the Calves can and should win the series even if
Speaker 4: he only plays in half the games.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the starts off quickness pieces everything, Like I've I've
Speaker 2: dealt with like different types of toe injuries over the years,
Speaker 2: And the big thing is when you're when you're going
Speaker 2: full speed and you need to stop, your foot literally
Speaker 2: rams into the front of your shoe and it's just super,
Speaker 2: super uncomfortable. But we'll be keeping an eye on that.
Speaker 2: I'm picking the Calves and six. If I just really
Speaker 2: quickly for Pacers fans, if I was making the case
Speaker 2: for how you'd win the series, this is how it
Speaker 2: would look. A big part of the Calves attack is
Speaker 2: forcing turnovers and getting out in transition. Tyre's Haliburton doesn't
Speaker 2: turn the ball over. Tyres is really good at punishing
Speaker 2: help and recover types of sequences. He's a relentless advantage attacker,
Speaker 2: meaning like he just finds where the help is at
Speaker 2: any point in time and is going to make the
Speaker 2: requisite kickout passes. The Pacers have a rhythm piece to
Speaker 2: their game on offense that can catch a lot of
Speaker 2: momentum and get really hot for extended stretches, and they
Speaker 2: do have the ball pressure piece to where they could
Speaker 2: potentially play the Calves into bad stretches, and so I
Speaker 2: do think even with the Calves winning the series, there
Speaker 2: will be stretches of this series where the Pacers go
Speaker 2: on extended runs or win games. I think that they
Speaker 2: have advantages in that regard. So if they can just
Speaker 2: somehow maintain that momentum over the course of the series,
Speaker 2: there's absolutely a version of this where they can win,
Speaker 2: especially if Tyre's Haliburton is playing at the level that
Speaker 2: he was playing. That said, I think the Calves are
Speaker 2: a substantially better defensive team on the front line, and
Speaker 2: I think they are a more versatile defensive team on
Speaker 2: the front line, which gives them a lot of flexibility
Speaker 2: with adjustments over the course of the series. And then
Speaker 2: that over the top shot making piece is just such
Speaker 2: a ceiling razor when you get into some of these
Speaker 2: slow down clutch situations at the end of games, Carter,
Speaker 2: I know you need to go. Why don't you just
Speaker 2: quick tell everybody where your work is so that we
Speaker 2: can send them that way and then we'll get you
Speaker 2: out of here.
Speaker 3: All right.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you can follow a Chase Down pod on any
Speaker 4: social media platforms.
Speaker 3: If you are if you are.
Speaker 4: If you are a video pod guy, go Calves YouTube
Speaker 4: channels where we're hosted. Can I end this pod with
Speaker 4: a question for you? Though, I can hijack real quick
Speaker 4: and let it and then it on this. If the
Speaker 4: Calves sweep this series, if they just or like win,
Speaker 4: you know, in a dominant fashion, maybe it's not sweet,
Speaker 4: but it's a Calves and five and four and three
Speaker 4: of the four wins. It's just like a oh, the
Speaker 4: Calves are winning this game kind of thing. Will that
Speaker 4: meaningfully change how you feel about a Boston series in
Speaker 4: the next round.
Speaker 2: Dude, I'm so close to picking Cleveland it's not even funny.
Speaker 2: There's the big thing is is that I think Jason
Speaker 2: Tatum is playing at an insanely high level, and then
Speaker 2: he's substantially better than he was last year in the postseason.
Speaker 2: I think the rest of the team is not. I
Speaker 2: think the rest of the team is I think the
Speaker 2: rest of the team is more banged up. I think
Speaker 2: they have several shooters that are really shaky right now
Speaker 2: in their confidence and clean catch and shoot situations. I
Speaker 2: think that there is a version of that series where
Speaker 2: Tatum just becomes too much to handle. Of course, and
Speaker 2: I definitely am waiting to see how the second round
Speaker 2: plays out. But if the Calves just beat the shit
Speaker 2: out of the Pacers and their offense still looks completely unguardable,
Speaker 2: the vision I can't get out of my head is
Speaker 2: the way that the Calves just chewed up and spit
Speaker 2: out the Celtics and the Blender ever since they dropped
Speaker 2: down twenty in the first quarter of that game in Boston,
Speaker 2: where like there is like a relentless PCE and the
Speaker 2: Blender so to speak, that really can cause the Celtics
Speaker 2: defense some problems. And so I think this Cavs team
Speaker 2: is reaching a special level on offense and I'm very,
Speaker 2: very close, but I will wait to see what happens
Speaker 2: in the second round series.
Speaker 4: One last thing st out of the season for me
Speaker 4: that never gets discussed. It was a justin find What
Speaker 4: do you think the net rating was for the Boston
Speaker 4: Celtics starters in the regular season three hundred and fifty
Speaker 4: seven minutes.
Speaker 2: So this is Porzingis at center, Horford off.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Porzengis, Drew Brown, Tatum White. I would assume plus
Speaker 4: ten or so your row point zero in over three
Speaker 4: hundred minutes, dead even on the season. Wow, wows under
Speaker 4: it was actually.
Speaker 3: Negative for most of the season.
Speaker 4: They had a late run that pushed them to a
Speaker 4: net neutral Wow it under just wow, justin pulled it.
Speaker 4: I couldn't believe it wasn't like a big like five
Speaker 4: alarm fire.
Speaker 3: Dude.
Speaker 2: Celtics fans are getting sick of Porzingis. I don't know
Speaker 2: if you've seen. I've noticed they think he no showed
Speaker 2: the first round. So that's a that's a whole thing
Speaker 2: as well. But Ay, we really appreciate you making the time.
Speaker 2: I know you're close because I just had a couple
Speaker 2: of good ones to throw at you know you're fine,
Speaker 2: Carter I, sincerely, I appreciate you taking the time to
Speaker 2: join us today. Again, everybody, go follow and support the
Speaker 2: Chase Down podcast will be covering every game in the
Speaker 2: second round series here at OOPS tonight, as always been.
Speaker 2: Sincerely appreciate you guys for supporting us and supporting the show.
Speaker 2: We will see you later tonight live after Lakers Wolves.
Speaker 3: What's up? Guys?
Speaker 2: As always, I appreciate you for listening to and supporting
Speaker 2: OOPS tonight. They would actually be really helpful for us
Speaker 2: if you guys would take a second and leave a
Speaker 2: rating and a review. As always, I appreciate you guys
Speaker 2: supporting us, but if you could take a minute to
Speaker 2: do that.
Speaker 3: I really appreciate it.
Speaker 4: The volume