Speaker 1: Of the law and Order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies.
Speaker 3: These episodes are based on.
Speaker 2: These are our stories, done done. Hello, welcome to That's
Speaker 2: Messed Up an SVU podcast.
Speaker 3: I'm Liza Traeger.
Speaker 1: And I'm Kara Klank, And you know what we do here, guys.
Speaker 1: We just talk about an SVU episode, We talk about
Speaker 1: the true crime that was based on and then we
Speaker 1: interview a fabulous guest. And before that we just kind
Speaker 1: of check in for a minute. So Lisa ban We
Speaker 1: bansed our baby. So at this point, we're a little
Speaker 1: bit of a time machine right now, like we're recording
Speaker 1: a few days before we normally do. But at this point,
Speaker 1: Lisa will be returned as a resident of Los Angeles.
Speaker 4: We're so excited. I did to welcome you back.
Speaker 2: Because I feel like you guys obviously want to talk
Speaker 2: about Stabler's return and the crossover event and everything. But
Speaker 2: I will be on a plane, I will be moving.
Speaker 2: Well we're talking. It's like it's fucked up the time.
Speaker 2: I don't know how to speak. I feel like I'm
Speaker 2: gonna do it but I did just do it. You're
Speaker 2: seeing behind the curtain. We had to do this sooner
Speaker 2: and then I don't know. I'm going I'm definitely excited
Speaker 2: that not every story from now on will not be
Speaker 2: like well, my mom said, well, me and my dad
Speaker 2: did this so or like drama with the cat, drama
Speaker 2: with the dog. But my mom's like, we're gonna miss you.
Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, you're just gonna miss someone screaming
Speaker 2: at you for no reason. Sure, no, but I'm going
Speaker 2: to miss them so much. But I'm excited to move whatever,
Speaker 2: YadA YadA. It'll be stressful for sure. I think I'm
Speaker 2: gonna have to bring a printer on with me as
Speaker 2: a carry on.
Speaker 4: I don't understand that. Didn't I pack a printer for
Speaker 4: you here?
Speaker 2: Yeah, but my parents bought me. I can't again, I'm
Speaker 2: like fourteen, but I got a printer. Ship it. We're
Speaker 2: scared it's gonna break because my dad, because we're doing
Speaker 2: the brand shipping. My dad's like, well, can you write fragile?
Speaker 2: I'm like greyhound, We'll throw it and piss on it. Okay,
Speaker 2: there's no way it's gonna be taken care of nicely.
Speaker 2: So now he's scared the printer is gonna be destroyed,
Speaker 2: so he's finding stuyrofoam in the basement. I mean, this
Speaker 2: is gonna be a fun a few days of packing
Speaker 2: my whole life and outfits.
Speaker 1: My mom used to pick a fight with me anytime
Speaker 1: I was going away, like if I was going away
Speaker 1: to college, or I was going away for camp for
Speaker 1: the summer, or like even for like a long trip.
Speaker 1: We would always get into a fight right before does
Speaker 1: your parents do your mom? Does your mom do that?
Speaker 5: Well?
Speaker 2: You know why. It's because she loves you but can't
Speaker 2: express it. Yeah, she just turned down.
Speaker 1: You would always just get into a fight, like right
Speaker 1: before a big trip.
Speaker 2: Now, the amount that parents love their children is truly sickening.
Speaker 2: Get a life, guys, got a hobby. Parents are so desperate.
Speaker 3: I mean yeah, I.
Speaker 1: Literally my toddler pooped in her bathing soup bottom yesterday
Speaker 1: and I cleaned it up with not even a wine.
Speaker 2: You know, it's like we love them so much. Well,
Speaker 2: so obviously the news of the world is little nas
Speaker 2: xworking on the devil.
Speaker 3: I love it.
Speaker 1: And at this point I hope people are still talking
Speaker 1: about it. I know it'll be next week. But it's
Speaker 1: it's my favorite thing. I haven't even watched the video yet, Lisa,
Speaker 1: and I'm so on Little naz X's side.
Speaker 2: It's crazy, like, oh no, I love them, but it
Speaker 2: reminded me because everyone's like the children, the children. And
Speaker 2: our friend Solomon Georgio had an amazing tweet.
Speaker 3: He goes, we.
Speaker 2: Don't care about your ugly ass children. Shut up, we don't.
Speaker 1: Care, and my friend wrote and goes, when did it
Speaker 1: become Cardi b and Megan is Stallion and Little naz
Speaker 1: X's job to raise your kid?
Speaker 2: Like what are you talking about? Like, also, priests rape children,
Speaker 2: so go away with your religious nonsense. Is this too
Speaker 2: much for an intro?
Speaker 1: I think so maybe, But I also agree like with
Speaker 1: your tweet that you had where you were like, I
Speaker 1: just adult people believing in the devil is just so like.
Speaker 1: Also on Real Housewives this week, I know it's a
Speaker 1: franchise you don't watch, but there was a franchise on Dallas.
Speaker 4: One of the they did like a shaman thing. They
Speaker 4: had like a shaman knight, and.
Speaker 1: One of the women was like that kind of made
Speaker 1: me upset because you're not supposed to turn to anyone
Speaker 1: except for Jesus, and that lets the devil in.
Speaker 2: When you do things like that, that lets the devil.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I just hadn't heard like an adult person
Speaker 1: reference the Devil as an imminent threat in like a
Speaker 1: long time, Like I just didn't think that was a thing.
Speaker 2: No, it's pretty embarrassing. I keep laughing at myself, just
Speaker 2: being like if I was someone that was like the Devil,
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I don't just stand it at all.
Speaker 2: And then people are like, and he's promoting Satanism with
Speaker 2: his Devil shoes and it's like and then someone posted
Speaker 2: this YouTuber I follow is like, Nike is supporting Satan,
Speaker 2: how dare they? And Miley Cyrus is wearing the Satan
Speaker 2: shoes and you guys are You're still so ignorant to
Speaker 2: the fact that Hollywood's run by Satan. I'm like, none
Speaker 2: of us take it seriously. Yeah, it's just su cool.
Speaker 2: We're fucking cool. I asked her a sneaker head friend
Speaker 2: if he got the Satan shoes, but he said it
Speaker 2: was sold out in a minute, so shit, it was old.
Speaker 2: They only released six sixty six of them, which is amazing,
Speaker 2: and there's real blood.
Speaker 1: I couldn't even get Ivy park pants. I mean, I
Speaker 1: can't imagine the Satan shoes.
Speaker 2: Shit. No, I want to tell far Bag too. I
Speaker 2: just I'm good at concert tickets. I've definitely spent a
Speaker 2: lot of my time on Ticketmaster apps, calling on the website.
Speaker 2: I got a Dell tickets. It took me an hour
Speaker 2: and a half, but I did it, like I am
Speaker 2: going to concert tickets. I got Gaga tickets, old fashioned
Speaker 2: ticket Master way, but the drops on fashion. I haven't
Speaker 2: honed in on that skill yet. But I love him.
Speaker 2: The whole thing is like religious people said gay people
Speaker 2: are going to hell. He's like, fine, I'll go to
Speaker 2: fucking hell and I'm gonna watch a devil. Yeah. No,
Speaker 2: he's so cute. And then I didn't realize this, but
Speaker 2: I guess uh, Old Country Road had very dirty lyrics
Speaker 2: because he's like I talked about leaning in on a bladder.
Speaker 3: You don't, bitches, It's not my fault you showed it
Speaker 3: to your children.
Speaker 2: But also children don't get it. Like I watched The
Speaker 2: Simpsons as a kid, and I didn't get most of
Speaker 2: the jokes till I was older.
Speaker 1: These are the same people that are like letting their
Speaker 1: kids like TWRK to fully dirty songs on TikTok, and
Speaker 1: they're like, isn't that cute? Or like half the songs
Speaker 1: that kids dance to and dance competitions are like filthy
Speaker 1: songs about sex. I mean it's just like kids don't
Speaker 1: get it or you have to explain things to your kids,
Speaker 1: like it's just not I don't agree with satanic panic,
Speaker 1: with fucking any of the shit that goes on with
Speaker 1: like the old Tipper Gore shit from the nineties of
Speaker 1: like putting ratings on music and like music is going
Speaker 1: to corrupt you. Like who's one person that now as
Speaker 1: an adult is like fuck man, if I never got
Speaker 1: into led Zeppelin, I think my life would have gone
Speaker 1: real different. Like that's just no one's saying that shit
Speaker 1: like it's just crazy.
Speaker 2: Also, the name Tipper is out of control. I don't
Speaker 2: understand that. But I think we're skipping over the most
Speaker 2: important point, which is like all my queer ass friends
Speaker 2: are like if I had this as a teen, it
Speaker 2: would have changed my life.
Speaker 4: Yes, it's fully homophobic.
Speaker 1: I think the panic too because the people were talking
Speaker 1: about how other rap groups have talked about the Devil
Speaker 1: before and Satan and other. A ton of other people
Speaker 1: have done stuff like that and no one cares.
Speaker 2: But because it's like this black gay man, that's a problem,
Speaker 2: you know, It's just never happened. I can't think of
Speaker 2: a gay pop man star in heels twerk like in
Speaker 2: my life.
Speaker 1: So twerking on the lap of the devil. I think
Speaker 1: he was counting on that that you'd never seen that before.
Speaker 2: Being of TikTok. I don't know if you saw this,
Speaker 2: but I guess a popular TikToker was on Jimmy Fallon
Speaker 2: do all the famous kiktok dances, and there was a
Speaker 2: tweet and it's like I didn't realize this because the
Speaker 2: TikTok dances look so stupid, but they're originated by black
Speaker 2: young people that are amazing.
Speaker 1: Who are so good, and then like white girls do
Speaker 1: the slowed down like like completely robotic version of it,
Speaker 1: and that's like the stuff that goes like viral.
Speaker 2: I didn't know. I'm an idiot. And then someone tweeted,
Speaker 2: this is the legit movie bring it On. Yeah, like
Speaker 2: this is bring it On? And I was watching all
Speaker 2: the black people do the dances, and I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: this is fucking cool, Like how are these basic bees
Speaker 2: on television. I mean, I don't want to be mad
Speaker 2: at teenagers, but yeah, it's so fucked up. I don't know,
Speaker 2: but all thrilling, TikTok you.
Speaker 1: I've become very into YouTube. I know, Liza, I'm worried
Speaker 1: about you. You're buying merch You're buying coffee from YouTubers, like,
Speaker 1: I don't know what's going on.
Speaker 2: I am gonna buy I'm a Chamberlain coffee, but I'm
Speaker 2: obsessed with them a Chamberlain.
Speaker 3: But now it's gone. I watch Inked.
Speaker 2: It's like a tattoo magazine. I've watched hours it's just
Speaker 2: tattoo artists making fun jokes. And I've and then I've
Speaker 2: been watching like Harper's Bizarre What I Eat in a
Speaker 2: Day and it's celebrities talking about what they eat. And
Speaker 2: then I started watching nutritionists watch with the celebrities eating
Speaker 2: a day and then judge them. And I don't even
Speaker 2: watch Netflix and nothing. I'm just like Svu and you
Speaker 2: Tube all day every day. It's never enough content. I'm
Speaker 2: just like waiting for Tricksy to put out a new
Speaker 2: makeup tutorial. I just like, oh god, I yeah, but
Speaker 2: Emma Chamberlain is my new God.
Speaker 1: Wow, and she's twenty. She's nineteen. She wanted to clarify
Speaker 1: for everybody she's nineteen.
Speaker 2: But like she was like, look, I got birkenstocks, and
Speaker 2: I was like, oh my god, I have birkenstocks in
Speaker 2: my storage. I can't wait to wear my birkenstocks again.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I'm susceptible to marketing.
Speaker 2: Maybe maybe if I was a kid, I would become
Speaker 2: into Satan honestly, Like, yeah, I am blinded by marketing.
Speaker 2: I'm a merch whore.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I'm basic, Like I think I just like things because
Speaker 2: people are selling them to me. I do want to
Speaker 2: say that before I leave. My family did find a
Speaker 2: new game. Oh, I'm bringing back Gammon to La. My
Speaker 2: dad gifted me a little sit you teach play. I
Speaker 2: don't know how to play Backgammon. I think you're gonna
Speaker 2: love it. We're gonna have fun. But then we started
Speaker 2: playing Rummy Cube, which yeah, I don't know who plays
Speaker 2: Rummy Cube. And then we played with my sister and
Speaker 2: the girl masks and she's good and we.
Speaker 3: Learned a lot from her. She's been playing for a while.
Speaker 2: But I got a message from someone saying that lots
Speaker 2: of people are regressing to their teenage self since we're
Speaker 2: all moving in back with their parents. Like it's not
Speaker 2: just me screaming at my mother that everyone is just
Speaker 2: regressing to their twin bed life, bad behaviors, bad communication.
Speaker 1: And that's okay. We're all going to get out of
Speaker 1: it at some point. We're all going to graduate back
Speaker 1: into queen beds and full beds and everything's gonna be fine.
Speaker 3: Are you gonna put my bed together? Bt?
Speaker 2: Dubs?
Speaker 1: I mean, if you're asking me if it's the first
Speaker 1: time I've put a bed frame together seven and a
Speaker 1: half months pregnant.
Speaker 2: The answer is absolutely not. I've done it before and
Speaker 2: I will do it again.
Speaker 3: That's like I was scared of, but I think I have.
Speaker 1: I think like I'll be over there with my twenty
Speaker 1: dollars Ikia drill ooh.
Speaker 2: It is it's gonna be an ikea bed. Yeah, all right,
Speaker 2: this is this turned into a text message at the end.
Speaker 2: We really came in strong with opinions and we're ending
Speaker 2: with just the message at the end.
Speaker 3: I love it.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's get into our episode. We have a really
Speaker 1: great one today, so let's jump right in.
Speaker 2: So this is institutional fail. It's season seventeen, and then
Speaker 2: according to Hulu and lots of sources, it's episode three,
Speaker 2: and then if you go somewhere else on the internet,
Speaker 2: it's episode four.
Speaker 4: I think it's episode four.
Speaker 1: I think Hulu puts together episode sometimes, like they'll put
Speaker 1: together like episodes that are like to be continued episodes,
Speaker 1: when really they're their own episodes.
Speaker 2: So I think it's actually episode four.
Speaker 1: That's according to this sview fandom, and I feel like
Speaker 1: that should be our kind of bible, because people in
Speaker 1: the UK are listening, they don't have Hulu. You know,
Speaker 1: I don't know for sure, and we have personally found
Speaker 1: multiple mistakes in IMDb, so I don't know.
Speaker 2: If that makes us better than everyone. But okay, we're
Speaker 2: going to get into this episode. It's pretty heartbreaking, one
Speaker 2: of the saddest. I don't even know how to pick
Speaker 2: which one's sad, and they're all sad, but whatever hurts.
Speaker 3: Your heart, you know.
Speaker 2: So it starts with a super little cute boy. He's
Speaker 2: so cute.
Speaker 1: I like needed to not cast a boy that was
Speaker 1: this cute. It was too heartbreaking. He was so cute, and.
Speaker 2: He's on the chair and his kitchen and he's looking
Speaker 2: for food to eat and there's just nothing. There's no food,
Speaker 2: and so he unlocks the front door and starts walking
Speaker 2: down the hallway of this building. It's a giant apartment building.
Speaker 2: People are selling drugs outside, it's bustling, it's nighttime, and
Speaker 2: this little angel is just walking trying to find food.
Speaker 2: And he goes to bodega. And this made me miss
Speaker 2: Bodega's I know, that's not the point of this. We
Speaker 2: should be sad for this hungry child, but I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: what I would give to be in New York and
Speaker 2: have a bagel and cheese right now and put Cheetos
Speaker 2: inside of it.
Speaker 3: Okay, So.
Speaker 2: He goes and he has some coins, which I was
Speaker 2: shocked by. But he had money. Yeah, but he he
Speaker 2: buys like snowballs, the pink snowballs, it looks like, which
Speaker 2: is a perfect kid snack.
Speaker 3: It's like, yeah, I'll take the pink.
Speaker 2: I was about to say pink fuzzy ball, but that
Speaker 2: sounds disgusting, not delicious. And the bodega guy, obviously is like,
Speaker 2: whoa bro, Where's where's your mom? And cut to William
Speaker 2: Dodds and I think I might be calling him Gallagher
Speaker 2: throughout this episode, So if you hear Gallagher, I'm talking
Speaker 2: about William Dodds eyebrow, yes, who we have previously referred
Speaker 2: to as the biggest eyebrow guy in Hollywood, which I
Speaker 2: think he is. But then some people did point out
Speaker 2: to us Eugene and Dan Levy are also heavy into
Speaker 2: the eyebrow game. We respect that, like obviously we recognize
Speaker 2: them as eyebrow canon.
Speaker 5: Go on.
Speaker 2: Okay, So William is walking out with our queen Marishka
Speaker 2: and she's wearing a black dress, and you know, if
Speaker 2: she's at a function and she's in a gown, shit's
Speaker 2: about to go down.
Speaker 1: Okay, they like, yeah, they're never just going to show
Speaker 1: Olivia like going home and like tucking into bed.
Speaker 4: After a nice night out.
Speaker 2: That's never gonna happen. No, she's going to a crime
Speaker 2: scene in a gown, and that is That's exactly what happens.
Speaker 2: So I see he's already at the bodega and we
Speaker 2: have a former guest, William Scott Winter's officer.
Speaker 3: Doom is there.
Speaker 2: Yes, So that was really thrilling to see. And he's
Speaker 2: of course like missing kid. I don't need this. Get
Speaker 2: the sex police over here. So I sees at the
Speaker 2: bodega and Benson shows up and we're at the credits.
Speaker 2: We're like, we need to find what's up with this
Speaker 2: child and what's going to happen. So after the credits,
Speaker 2: we are with Benson and the kid and she's doing
Speaker 2: her kid voice, like, oh, it's you know, playing games
Speaker 2: to get information.
Speaker 3: I don't want to.
Speaker 2: I was about to do an impression, but then I
Speaker 2: remember not very good at those. So she's playing psychology
Speaker 2: games with the kid. We do find out his name
Speaker 2: is Bruno. I love that name. The doctor, doctor Darby Wilder,
Speaker 2: who's one of the most beautiful women in the world.
Speaker 2: She informs Benson this is a neglected kid. He has cavities,
Speaker 2: he's dirty, he's not being taken care of. And the
Speaker 2: Doctor's like, I need to talk to these parents, and
Speaker 2: Benson's like, get in line, bitch, on the talk to
Speaker 2: the parents. Clearly, we don't know where the parents are.
Speaker 2: So Rollins is at the apartments. She's talking to neighbors.
Speaker 2: She's trying to figure everything out. Careese is their iced tea.
Speaker 2: The whole gang is there. They're talking to everyone outside
Speaker 2: of the projects, trying to like figure stuff out. We
Speaker 2: get the name of the mother. Her name is Manuela
Speaker 2: and the last name is Dominican, so we have some
Speaker 2: clues and Rollins is super pregnant here. She is very,
Speaker 2: very pregnant, and she's just like desperate to be on
Speaker 2: the scene. And it's like, just sit and do paperwork.
Speaker 2: What is wrong with you? I don't understand this work ethic.
Speaker 2: I will never understand this work ethic. Like, you are
Speaker 2: so pregnant. Take I mean you're actually the day before
Speaker 2: you gave birth, we went out to brunch.
Speaker 1: You were doing errands, so right, but I wasn't at
Speaker 1: a crime scene.
Speaker 2: No, I wasn't.
Speaker 1: Like you gotta let me tail this suspect, Like, I mean,
Speaker 1: she really is like a little bit of overachiever.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so Benson's like, sit your ass down and
Speaker 2: call the food stamps people and figure something out. You're
Speaker 2: you're not coming with us. Benson and Creesy go to
Speaker 2: social Services and we see one of the biggest stars
Speaker 2: of our lifetime, Whoopy Goldberg.
Speaker 1: Huge, huge influence on me, huge person I've been obsessed.
Speaker 2: With since childhood. Love Love Love. What was your movie
Speaker 2: growing up? My movie?
Speaker 1: I mean probably sister act. Yeah, same, But like I
Speaker 1: loved her in so many things.
Speaker 2: I just thought she was great.
Speaker 1: Well, the thing is to my uncle was a really
Speaker 1: small part in this movie with her in jumpin Jack Flash.
Speaker 1: So I just like would watch that movie even though
Speaker 1: it was like it was like a little too scary
Speaker 1: for me to watch, but I'd be like, Whoopy Goldberg,
Speaker 1: and like, I just loved her always. I've met her
Speaker 1: a couple of times too. And yeah, I've met her
Speaker 1: a couple of times. I think I've met her three.
Speaker 4: Times, and every time I always, I mean I obviously.
Speaker 2: I'm like remember me, like I was kind of teller.
Speaker 1: I mean I met her working on a couple of
Speaker 1: projects in New York and then she was.
Speaker 2: On Drag Race.
Speaker 1: And yeah, I don't know if people know this, this
Speaker 1: is an interesting fact. Abou would be Goldberg and maybe
Speaker 1: it's made up, but this is what I heard. She
Speaker 1: when she was a young kid, she witnessed a plane
Speaker 1: fall out of the sky. She basically saw a plane crash,
Speaker 1: so she does not fly. So when she did Drag Race,
Speaker 1: she literally took a bus, like I mean a tour
Speaker 1: bus obviously, probably a beautiful, lovely bus. Not like a greyhound,
Speaker 1: and she took she buses out with all of her
Speaker 1: people to like go do projects on the West coast
Speaker 1: and then comes back like she does not fly. I
Speaker 1: want to know where she vacations, though, I know that's
Speaker 1: really Meammy, Like yeah, Florida. Yeah, I was gonna say,
Speaker 1: or I forgot about drag Race and she means so
Speaker 1: much everyone because every drag queen was in tears wanting
Speaker 1: to hug her.
Speaker 2: She had to hug everybody. Yeah, is that what happens?
Speaker 2: She was hugging everybody and then this is really embarrassing.
Speaker 2: But I'm obsessed with the movie rat Race. Oh okay,
Speaker 2: my favorite.
Speaker 1: Is making a set and making a face to us,
Speaker 1: like we watch it every Christmas.
Speaker 5: Now.
Speaker 2: My dad is obsessed with Amy Smart. I love brecken Meyer.
Speaker 3: It is the funniest movie. John Lovetz is incredible.
Speaker 2: I also just have to say the who people birthing
Speaker 2: is true?
Speaker 4: Is there a part of rat Race where they go
Speaker 4: it is a race?
Speaker 2: And I am for the way, Yes, that is mister bean.
Speaker 4: Okay, my friend and I used to always say that.
Speaker 2: But I never seen the movie. I thought Hannah was
Speaker 2: giving this emotion like wrap it up bitches. We have
Speaker 2: an episode to cover, but instead more rat race material,
Speaker 2: which is shocking and exciting.
Speaker 4: This is how we know we have the right producer
Speaker 4: for our show.
Speaker 2: I also can't believe it's a Christmas holiday movie and
Speaker 2: there's great Nazi jokes, which is okay, now I'm telling
Speaker 2: you to wrap it up, let's go. But seeing Whoopy
Speaker 2: Goldberg INNSVU is it's amazing, you know, it's huge make stars.
Speaker 2: It's a lot of people before they're famous, a lot
Speaker 2: of people during their years of famous, but like to
Speaker 2: have whoopee is it's exciting.
Speaker 1: I think every season they try to get a few
Speaker 1: jewel names, like they try to get a few big
Speaker 1: names to kind of like be the jewel in the
Speaker 1: crown of the season, and Whoopy is for sure that
Speaker 1: for this season.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So she's working at Child Services and we also
Speaker 2: meet Keith, who is the caseworker, and when asked about Bruno,
Speaker 2: he's like, ah, what, I don't know.
Speaker 3: So that's not a good sign.
Speaker 2: Okay, we all know Child Protective Services their overworks, too
Speaker 2: many caseloads, not enough funding. This is a tale is
Speaker 2: old at this time and Keith is played by John Macgaro,
Speaker 2: who I'm obsessed with, and he was in Orange is
Speaker 2: the New Black as one of the husbands, and he's
Speaker 2: just a really good act and.
Speaker 1: He's in Penn fifteen. Oh yeah, this is star studded.
Speaker 1: So we get a last name.
Speaker 2: Bruno is Zuno and Keith says he's like, yeah, I
Speaker 2: was there a couple of weeks ago. The kids looks
Speaker 2: fine and they're like, kids, excuse me. So they have
Speaker 2: to go to the building immediately because where what is
Speaker 2: this other child? And the elevator is broken. They have
Speaker 2: to walk up the stairs of this giant building. It's
Speaker 2: super hot, but Benson's in a jacket. It's very confusing,
Speaker 2: very old Augusto Sage County vibes, where it's like, take
Speaker 2: your coat off if it's so hot, Julia Roberts, just
Speaker 2: take your coat off. So they're here's a half sister
Speaker 2: named Keisha Houston and she's eight years old. When they
Speaker 2: get to the door, Benson says, it's unlocked. That's not
Speaker 2: a good sign. The TV's playing the furnace. It's just
Speaker 2: we know something bad's about to happen. All the foreshadowing
Speaker 2: leads to something you can't even imagine. They unfortunately find
Speaker 2: Keisha laying in a dog cage, passed out, and Keith goes,
Speaker 2: oh my god, and it's like, yeah, bitch, why weren't
Speaker 2: you doing your job? There is a pulse, but it's
Speaker 2: super faint. She's so tiny for being eight years old,
Speaker 2: and Cariesy is so sensitive. He looks like he's about
Speaker 2: to cry. He can't handle this, and so they go
Speaker 2: to the hospital. There's still no sign of the mother
Speaker 2: and the baby is starvation, dehydration, infections, and the doctor
Speaker 2: doesn't know if she's gonna make it. Iced Tee, the
Speaker 2: investigator of the streets that he is, he does find
Speaker 2: the mother and she has a cardboard sign and she
Speaker 2: is super sweaty, hot, strung out. I would love to
Speaker 2: talk to the makeup department about how they got her
Speaker 2: so sweaty and stuff and her hair was mad. It
Speaker 2: was just like very good costuming work. And it's Maria
Speaker 2: Ruez from Orange is the New Black, so lots of crossover.
Speaker 2: Cariese's talking to Keith, the child services person, and we
Speaker 2: find out what we already know. He's working too much.
Speaker 2: His coworker's on maternity leave. Not a rollins person. Lisa
Speaker 2: tregger person, but she's off, she's taken a break. We're
Speaker 2: now in interrogation. Ic and Rollins are talking to Manuela,
Speaker 2: who's the mother, and she's like, listen, it's Keisha's fault.
Speaker 2: If she behaved, she wouldn't be starved in a cage,
Speaker 2: So that's it. You don't blame the what's going on here?
Speaker 2: And she says that when she was a kid, she
Speaker 2: got beat up with electrical wires and chords until she bled,
Speaker 2: So she's like, do you want me to do that?
Speaker 2: So this is a nice statement about generational trauma and
Speaker 2: how everyone needs to be in therapy, but you know, yeah,
Speaker 2: Maslow's hierarchy.
Speaker 3: If needs it's hard, okay.
Speaker 2: Benson during the interrogation, she knocks on the window and
Speaker 2: the detectives go and meet her in the little spy
Speaker 2: room and Keisha has died. So now this mother is
Speaker 2: going down for murder. But she's so high she doesn't
Speaker 2: even understand what's going on. Benson and Rollins now are
Speaker 2: with Barba, and Barba's like, so, what's going on with
Speaker 2: child services?
Speaker 3: Whose fault is it? What's going on?
Speaker 2: The news is pissed, like there's just a lot of
Speaker 2: emotions and they're trying to figure shit out. So Rollin's
Speaker 2: and Benson are talking to Barba and they're like, we
Speaker 2: need to fucking take down Child Services.
Speaker 3: They're not doing their job.
Speaker 2: If they did their job, they would see Keisha was
Speaker 2: in a fucking cagun starving. No one has visited these
Speaker 2: children in forever. And Barbara, who everyone is horny for,
Speaker 2: is like, get over your emotions in this maternal outrage.
Speaker 2: I need some evidence, relaxed ladies. So the suspender man, it's.
Speaker 1: A very big relax ladies. Or I mean, yeah, he's
Speaker 1: he's evidence based.
Speaker 2: I get that, but he's.
Speaker 3: Not being very empathetic.
Speaker 2: No. And also, you know, just emotions are valid, and
Speaker 2: the patriarchy has told us they're not valid and we
Speaker 2: shouldn't listen to them, but they are very real. And
Speaker 2: if our body has emotions, it's because we want to
Speaker 2: shut up.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: So we're back with whoopee yay at Child Services and
Speaker 2: Keith is there and they're figuring stuff out and the
Speaker 2: Deputy commissioner walks into the meeting and he looks like
Speaker 2: a child pretending to be a grown man. That's his face.
Speaker 2: It's like, why is this child face on this grown
Speaker 2: man body. That's the vibe I get from the Deputy
Speaker 2: Commissioner and they and he says, listen, you need a subpoena.
Speaker 2: What are you? What are you fucking doing here? And
Speaker 2: get out of here. So back at the precinct, they're
Speaker 2: looking at the notes and they're looking at all the reports,
Speaker 2: and what they figure out the detectives is there's all
Speaker 2: this conflict within the notes, and there's all these reports
Speaker 2: that are backdated, and basically they're fudging the paperwork, and
Speaker 2: they need to figure out what and.
Speaker 3: Why all this What is this?
Speaker 1: Like months and months of reports have been submitted the
Speaker 1: day that this girl has passed. This little girl has
Speaker 1: passed away. So that's suspicious, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So Barbara raises his eyebrows in a very sassy manner,
Speaker 2: and so he, you know, he's tipped off by this
Speaker 2: fucked up paperwork, and so he's gonna go meet Dodds
Speaker 2: and figure stuff out. And Dodds, he you know, this
Speaker 2: is a classic character. It's just like always wants to
Speaker 2: make things difficult. And so now Barbara and Benson have
Speaker 2: to convince him and Josh Paus, who is Hank Abraham,
Speaker 2: who's in charge of some cop stuff. I mean, I
Speaker 2: don't even know all these commissioners. There are so many
Speaker 2: leaders of this. What do you know what he is? No,
Speaker 2: he's just like this guy, Hank Abraham.
Speaker 1: He's like higher up and Social Services is under his purview,
Speaker 1: and he obviously does not want this getting out that
Speaker 1: Social Services has like mass erosion to it as a system.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's all about the bad press and it doesn't
Speaker 2: matter that children are dead and being abused. It's like,
Speaker 2: I don't want this on the news, you know, I'm
Speaker 2: trying to trying to have a political career, and so
Speaker 2: Eyebrows and Josh Peius Hank Abraham tell them you can't
Speaker 2: investigate it.
Speaker 3: Stop it.
Speaker 2: I'm telling you you need to stop it. And then
Speaker 2: this is like one of my favorite moments of the episode.
Speaker 2: Benson and Barbara outside and she's like, oh, this sucks,
Speaker 2: and he goes, I don't work for them, I work
Speaker 2: for the DA's office. So Barbara switch, you know, being
Speaker 2: a dick about the emotions. He's won our hearse once again,
Speaker 2: and he's like, I'm going to take over.
Speaker 3: I don't answer to nobody.
Speaker 2: So that's really exciting Barbara does a press conference and
Speaker 2: he lets the world know exactly what is happening. Cut
Speaker 2: to Keith and he's putting flowers on Keisha's memorial outside
Speaker 2: of her home, and Careesy has to arrest him, and
Speaker 2: Iisen Rollins and the team are like arresting the deputy
Speaker 2: commissioner in Whoopi Goldberg and taking all the laptops and
Speaker 2: files from the Child Protective Services and they're charged for
Speaker 2: a bunch of stuff. And then Hank Abraham's at the
Speaker 2: beat of the press conference pissed his hell, and Barba's like,
Speaker 2: what bitch? And then Baylis said at fifty thousand dollars
Speaker 2: per defendant, which is pretty steep for underworked, I mean,
Speaker 2: underpaid government workers.
Speaker 3: So they're going to rikers.
Speaker 2: Barba, Hank and Marishka and Rawlins are outside and He's like,
Speaker 2: I told you to stop, and Barbara is like shut up,
Speaker 2: and so they have a nice little thing. But then
Speaker 2: Hank calls Barbara poppy, which is this racist? It might
Speaker 2: be I don't know, is this a slur?
Speaker 1: It seems like a weird thing for like, yeah, white
Speaker 1: guy to say to a Latino guy.
Speaker 2: I don't know, Raphael, you know, don't. The only poppy
Speaker 2: that's appropriate is Britney spears a song from the album's circus.
Speaker 2: That's the only time whites can say poppy, I think,
Speaker 2: or I mean, I guess since six.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: So at the hospital, Manuela's handcuffed to a bed and
Speaker 2: as asking Rollins, like, can you please get the judge
Speaker 2: to release me to go to Keisha's funeral?
Speaker 3: So this is fucking dark.
Speaker 2: I mean, she's so now, she's not been able to
Speaker 2: get drugs, and so I think everything is like hitting her.
Speaker 2: She's handcuffed to this bed, her daughter's dead. This is
Speaker 2: just fucking dark. And Rollins wants to know how did
Speaker 2: it get this bad? What fucking happened? And she explains
Speaker 2: she was sober, she was doing good. And then of
Speaker 2: course a man, of course, her ex, who is Bruno's father,
Speaker 2: not Keisha's, got back out of jail and they started
Speaker 2: partying and doing drugs, and she's like, but we weren't junkies,
Speaker 2: we were just having fun. But the guy didn't like
Speaker 2: Keisha because that wasn't his daughter, so he treated Keisha
Speaker 2: not well. And instead of kicking the man to the curb,
Speaker 2: who's mistreating your child? She told Keisha you better behave
Speaker 2: or you're gonna get whatever this guy wants to do
Speaker 2: to you.
Speaker 3: And god, this is bad.
Speaker 2: So Felipe got shot fourth of July weekend and that
Speaker 2: like broke her world apart. So that's when she relapsed
Speaker 2: again and just became a fledged drug addict. Was after
Speaker 2: this guy got shot. Now Keith is in jail as well.
Speaker 2: That's the child services guy. He's in an orange suit,
Speaker 2: and the lawyer is annoying. This is one of those
Speaker 2: situations where the lawyer's protecting the child services and the
Speaker 2: people at large and not really looking out for the guy.
Speaker 3: So the lawyers we know not to trust him.
Speaker 2: And Careese straight up is like, yo, you're the lowest
Speaker 2: man on the totem pole. This is a union lawyer,
Speaker 2: so you need to watch out for yourself because they're
Speaker 2: gonna blame you. Like Caresee's always looking out for everybody.
Speaker 2: He's an angel among us. So Dodds and Abraham are like,
Speaker 2: back down, back down. You don't have a political bone
Speaker 2: in your body, and it's like, yeah, that's a good
Speaker 2: thing for a sex crimes detective. Okay, we don't need
Speaker 2: politics with the rape police.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So this is Meanwhile, like I.
Speaker 1: Think, like some of the stakes here are supposed to
Speaker 1: be that Olivia is up for lieutenant. Like they mentioned
Speaker 1: at the very very beginning of the episode that like, uh,
Speaker 1: he looks like lieutenant might be right around the corner,
Speaker 1: you know, So like it's supposed to be, like they think,
Speaker 1: sort of threatening her to back down, that she'll be
Speaker 1: the kind of person that goes, Okay, I'll back down
Speaker 1: because I want this promotion.
Speaker 2: And that's just not Olivia Benson. No, she has put
Speaker 2: herself into multiple hostage situations to save a person.
Speaker 4: Yeah, bitch, don't give a shit about a promotion. Plus,
Speaker 4: she has a nice apartment.
Speaker 3: She does have a nice apartment.
Speaker 2: Carisee's little speech to Keith worked, so Keith wants to
Speaker 2: talk to Carisy and he explains that Whoopy Goldberg, that
Speaker 2: not Whoopie but her character who I don't remember because
Speaker 2: her name's fucking Whoopy Goldberg. I'm talking about Whoopie. I
Speaker 2: just don't need any sound bites coming out of this.
Speaker 2: But she told Keith stop coddling the clients. This is casework,
Speaker 2: not social work. She wanted him to stop taking their
Speaker 2: calls and told him explicitly to like pay less attention
Speaker 2: to the children and the She also told him that
Speaker 2: you don't have to visit the kids, just write it down.
Speaker 2: And so he got himself a new lawyer, and that's
Speaker 2: why he's explaining everything. And Whoop's character's name is Jeanette.
Speaker 2: So Jeanette called him in Saturday to come into the
Speaker 2: office and stood over him as he filed false reports
Speaker 2: that he visited Keisha's home. They filed lies for half
Speaker 2: the staff all day long. And he's willing to testify
Speaker 2: because this is going to haunt him for the rest
Speaker 2: of his life. We know that he is a good
Speaker 2: spirit and he did probably get into this job to
Speaker 2: be a good person. Court's happening, and this is a
Speaker 2: very like Richard gear Razzle dazzle moment. The two men
Speaker 2: are going at it. It's like they're about to break
Speaker 2: into song. He's, you know, Barba's in full suspender mode
Speaker 2: at this point, and the doctor takes the stand. She
Speaker 2: is beautiful. I'm obsessed with her and we need Yeah.
Speaker 2: I hope she's a guest one day. She's in a
Speaker 2: lot of episodes. I think eleven if just my memory,
Speaker 2: I don't remember. It's not written. I just want everyone
Speaker 2: to know if I'm right. That's my own heart and skill.
Speaker 2: So so Keith is on the stand and he's spilling
Speaker 2: the beans about falsifying records and he was put on
Speaker 2: probation for spending too much time with clients, but was
Speaker 2: taken off of probation when he started to falsify the reports.
Speaker 2: So this place is just very corrupt, and we get
Speaker 2: a lot of details about this. The defense attorney is
Speaker 2: doing a good job, like do you care about Keisha
Speaker 2: or do you care about staying out of jail? So
Speaker 2: he's doing his job. You know, we hate him, but
Speaker 2: he's doing good work. That's why he makes the big bucks.
Speaker 2: So Manuela is doing eight years in jail, and this
Speaker 2: moment is ice cold. So Manuela is with Ice and
Speaker 2: she gets to see Bruno because the ride was late
Speaker 2: and she missed Keisha's funeral. So they're making it up
Speaker 2: to her by letting her have some time with Bruno.
Speaker 3: And Ice is ice.
Speaker 2: Cold in this scene. I really like this scene. And
Speaker 2: she's flipping out about Bruno and Ice. He says he's
Speaker 2: been placed in a great family and hopefully when he
Speaker 2: gets older, he'll forget all of this and you, I
Speaker 2: don't know if we've ever seen ice this cold, right
Speaker 2: like maybe to like full blown hoodlums, but this moment
Speaker 2: was you see the little heart in iced tea in
Speaker 2: finn because to be like, I hope this kid never
Speaker 2: fucking remembers you. That's harsh, that's really but she killed her,
Speaker 2: her daughter. It's like, yeah, be harsh to her. But
Speaker 2: this was just an incredible scene, no mercy. Whoopee takes
Speaker 2: the stand, This is amazing. So she says, I had
Speaker 2: no idea Keith should have came to me sooner. I
Speaker 2: you know, I feel very sad for Keisha. But Barbara
Speaker 2: starts questioning and he's going deep and Whoopee is in
Speaker 2: the deep end on the stand because he brings in
Speaker 2: the paperwork. He has the receipts, as the kids say
Speaker 2: these days, and he goes, how did a hundred and
Speaker 2: sixty or like one hundred and seventy files get filed
Speaker 2: for eight different caseworkers and their families in one day?
Speaker 2: And he starts saying, like one of some of the
Speaker 2: reports are for people that moved away or that are dead,
Speaker 2: and like just none of the paperwork is mixing up,
Speaker 2: and he's getting her and her face is just she's just.
Speaker 3: Such a good actress.
Speaker 2: It's like, because the whole episode I was wondering, like
Speaker 2: this is such a small part, Like why is Whoopee here?
Speaker 3: Like what did what's happening here?
Speaker 5: She's got to do.
Speaker 2: The view, baby, She's got to the view. She can't
Speaker 2: do full shooting days. She's just doing She's doing what
Speaker 2: she can. Yeah, And it's like the whole episode, I'm like,
Speaker 2: what's what's happening?
Speaker 3: What's happening?
Speaker 2: And this is where you're like, no one else could
Speaker 2: fucking do this but will be Goldberg but one of
Speaker 2: the greatest actresses of our time.
Speaker 3: Like she takes the stand.
Speaker 2: It's this blank stare, but it says so much so
Speaker 2: it's like in the distance, not caring, but beat down,
Speaker 2: but there's something happening in her brain.
Speaker 3: It's just like such a powerful performance.
Speaker 2: And Whoopee finally breaks and she goes, I didn't want
Speaker 2: any of this, And he says, what, you didn't want
Speaker 2: to advance your career by ignoring child death and pain
Speaker 2: or you didn't want to get caught and she says,
Speaker 2: God himself could not do this job and these like
Speaker 2: and she goes into this whole thing about how like
Speaker 2: these children are raised by wolves, it's the drudges of society.
Speaker 2: This is the worst thing ever. They come to you
Speaker 2: as criminals, and then what the fuck do you do
Speaker 2: with them? You know, they come to you as like yeah,
Speaker 2: it's she's basically blaming everybody. And the scene gives you
Speaker 2: chills because it's like, you get these motherfuckers and you
Speaker 2: let them out into the world, and then they mistreat
Speaker 2: these children and then I have to fucking deal with them.
Speaker 2: You're fucking creating this. And the judge says, do you
Speaker 2: need a break? Everyone's like, uh, what's just stop it?
Speaker 2: So she says, like, after twenty five years of pushing
Speaker 2: papers and quotas, you all know it and you want
Speaker 2: escapegoat me so you can feel better about yourself. She's like, oh, what,
Speaker 2: you don't know that there's poor people. You don't see
Speaker 2: fucking poor people and homeless people on the trains and
Speaker 2: turn your back. You turn your back on poor people
Speaker 2: all the fucking time because it's too much. It's too
Speaker 2: much to fucking take it all in. I'm getting chills
Speaker 2: thinking about it. It's like one of the most powerful
Speaker 2: moments on sview and it's just like kind of a
Speaker 2: lecture to us as people and viewers, because we've all
Speaker 2: probably been in a situation where we see something terrible
Speaker 2: and hard to look at, and you turn your fucking
Speaker 2: back to keep going out with your friends or to
Speaker 2: meet someone at dinner, and you go onto the next
Speaker 2: train cart And so I love the moments where you're
Speaker 2: not above what's happening in the show, like you are
Speaker 2: this person too, and what he's going to let you
Speaker 2: hear it. And she goes, you want to put me
Speaker 2: in jail. Fucking look in the mirror, my friend, look
Speaker 2: in the damn mirror. And then she's just calm as
Speaker 2: hell and nodding her head, and she's sent to Bellevue.
Speaker 2: She had a full nervous breakdown. She pled to manslaughter.
Speaker 2: So then Matt the deputy commissioner, the one that looks
Speaker 2: like a child.
Speaker 3: He's going to do a year.
Speaker 2: And then an outside board is going to calm help
Speaker 2: restructure stuff because Keith's already in prison. He like testified,
Speaker 2: you know, so I don't have any updates on him here, Okay,
Speaker 2: So then Dodds is doing a little game with Benson
Speaker 2: at the end and she doesn't care, like, shut up, Dods,
Speaker 2: just be real with her.
Speaker 3: It's like, you're so annoying.
Speaker 2: But the SVU detectives broke a giant situation, something that
Speaker 2: has been fucked up for decades in the city, but
Speaker 2: SVU will always get to the bottom of it. So
Speaker 2: hopefully some great changes will happen with Child Protective Services.
Speaker 2: And then Dodds tells Benson at the end, like you're
Speaker 2: a lieutenant now, but we're going to need a sergeant
Speaker 2: and we have a great replacement. She goes, great, when
Speaker 2: can I interview him? And he goes, you don't have to,
Speaker 2: it's my son, Like I want to do like a
Speaker 2: song from a sitcom, like this is like too silly.
Speaker 1: Well it's also like it's also like the episode starts
Speaker 1: out with Dodds and Benson being like all chummy, and
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, this is like he's really changed, because
Speaker 1: like he was really kind of evil in some of
Speaker 1: the earlier episodes and you're like, oh, I guess he's
Speaker 1: like a good guy now, and then at the end
Speaker 1: it's like, no, he's still just like a dick that's
Speaker 1: going to make Olivia do whatever he wants because he
Speaker 1: has power.
Speaker 2: Over her in their jobs. And then the episode ends
Speaker 2: with Rollin's rubbing her pregnant belly and sighing heavily.
Speaker 3: With the way to the world.
Speaker 1: I think that that's like the show sort of like
Speaker 1: dramatically sort of tossing to like motherhood and like what
Speaker 1: is it? What are the implications of like bringing a
Speaker 1: child into this world? And is everybody ready for it?
Speaker 1: And a lot of people aren't. And these are the
Speaker 1: people that are. You see their children in acs and
Speaker 1: you know, that's what I got from the belly rub.
Speaker 1: But maybe I'm reading too far into it.
Speaker 3: Oh that's exactly it.
Speaker 2: Of course, it's you know, an illusion now not what
Speaker 2: is a metaphor a metaphors but yeah, so it ends
Speaker 2: on a pregnant belly.
Speaker 1: Reb Yeah, it's a pretty like it's a tough episode
Speaker 1: because it's like the show is attempting to tackle a
Speaker 1: super enormous issue in most major cities, not just New
Speaker 1: York with with you know, child services and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: That just the like the problems in these systems, and
Speaker 1: you know they have to do it in forty three
Speaker 1: minutes or whatever.
Speaker 2: So it's kind of it's ambitious and what Pie Goldberg
Speaker 2: should have won an Emmy for this. Did she not?
Speaker 3: I don't know. Oh, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I feel we would have known if she did. But
Speaker 2: she did not win an Emmy for this, Just so
Speaker 2: you know, yeah, I mean, even though she did not
Speaker 2: win an Emmy for this, she is an egot, baby, Yes,
Speaker 2: not a lot of those out there. It's true.
Speaker 1: I can only think of like her and John Legend
Speaker 1: and John Legends and he got yeah, he just became
Speaker 1: an egot recently.
Speaker 3: Oh oh my god, I mean he's perfect.
Speaker 1: All right, Let's take a quick break and when we
Speaker 1: come back, get ready to get sad.
Speaker 2: Okay, we are back back back again.
Speaker 1: And the sad thing about this episode is that it
Speaker 1: could probably be based on a few cases, but it
Speaker 1: is widely thought to be based on the case of
Speaker 1: nicks Mary Brown, who was a seven year old girl
Speaker 1: and the longtime victim of child abuse who was ultimately
Speaker 1: murdered by her stepfather. So I'll just give this is
Speaker 1: just up top a trigger warning for this episode. There's
Speaker 1: going to be I'm going to try to really be
Speaker 1: quick about the details because it is really I don't
Speaker 1: know why, Like it's since I had a kid these
Speaker 1: episodes are more difficult for me to talk about, but
Speaker 1: this I'm just not going to get into a lot
Speaker 1: of super detail if you'd like to, ei, there's plenty
Speaker 1: of articles you can research if you'd like really really
Speaker 1: specific details on this. But essentially, she was killed in
Speaker 1: two thousand and six. This episode aired nine years later
Speaker 1: in twenty fifteen, but has a lot of parallels in
Speaker 1: terms of the failures of social services to help a
Speaker 1: child in need that ended in tragic results. And I
Speaker 1: looked really extensively into also how to pronounce her name.
Speaker 1: Most news outlets were pronouncing it Nix Mary. I read
Speaker 1: some places that it was Knies Marie, But I just
Speaker 1: I'm just going to stick with like the way that
Speaker 1: newscasters were saying it, because I don't want to be
Speaker 1: I don't want to like offensively try to do a
Speaker 1: pronunciation that's incorrect. And also none of my research was conclusive.
Speaker 1: So Nix Maury was a seven year old girl living
Speaker 1: with her mother named Nick Salis Santiago and her stepfather,
Speaker 1: Cesar Rodriguez in the Bedsti neighborhood of Brooklyn in New
Speaker 1: York City. They lived in a three bedroom apartment with
Speaker 1: Nix Murray and her five siblings. It's really kind of
Speaker 1: hard to get an idea of this of the family
Speaker 1: tree here. I believe that Nick Salise had four children,
Speaker 1: including Nick Marie when she met Cesar, so I think
Speaker 1: that the most number of children in the home that
Speaker 1: were his were two. I think the baby was definitely his,
Speaker 1: And then I read about a teenager. It was really
Speaker 1: hard to get the ages of the siblings, and their
Speaker 1: names are not anywhere either, So that's just like some
Speaker 1: general infe about the family. Everything's heartbreaking about this case.
Speaker 1: But what's really really heartbreaking about it is that Nick
Speaker 1: Maury was treated worse than any of her siblings, Like
Speaker 1: for some reason, she was quoted in one article as
Speaker 1: the family scapegoat, Like I don't know they her parents
Speaker 1: constantly said that she was a troublemaker and that she
Speaker 1: would break her siblings toys on purpose.
Speaker 4: I don't really care. I don't really think any of
Speaker 4: that matters.
Speaker 1: But she was definitely given the opposite of preferential treatment.
Speaker 1: She was like, she was definitely sort of targeted by
Speaker 1: her stepfather. And on January tenth, two thousand and six,
Speaker 1: Ni Salise, the mother went upstairs to her neighbor and
Speaker 1: told her that her daughter, Nix Maury, had drowned. And
Speaker 1: so when the neighbor, whose name was Olbis Rivera, arrived
Speaker 1: at the apartment, she was shocked and truly traumatized by
Speaker 1: what she saw. She saw seven year old Nick Murray,
Speaker 1: who was much like in the episode, severely underweight. She
Speaker 1: was thirty six pounds, So for some contexts my not
Speaker 1: even two year old daughter, it is like thirty thirty
Speaker 1: one pounds, and she is large, but you should be
Speaker 1: twenty pounds heavier than thirty six pounds at the age
Speaker 1: of seven. And so she was severely undernourished and skinny,
Speaker 1: and she had been beaten by her stepfather. He had
Speaker 1: beaten her with his fists and belts, and her head
Speaker 1: had been slammed against the bathtub, and all of this
Speaker 1: was in retaliation for taking a cup of yogurt from
Speaker 1: the fridge and that she was apparently not allowed to have,
Speaker 1: and for a printer that he allegedly said that she
Speaker 1: had broken or jammed. So after he beat her, he
Speaker 1: put her body into what the family called quote unquote
Speaker 1: the dirty room, which was this rodent infested room where
Speaker 1: she had previously been tied up and left with only
Speaker 1: a litter box to use as a toilet.
Speaker 2: This is just like all really really horrible. It's torture.
Speaker 2: It's like full blown torture.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's really gross that they the stepfather always
Speaker 1: insisted she was this troublemaker who stole food and broke
Speaker 1: her siblings toys and stuff, and it's like I don't
Speaker 1: care what she does, Like no child deserves this kind
Speaker 1: of treatment. So ultimately, the medical examiner determined that she
Speaker 1: was killed by a fatal bloat to the head two
Speaker 1: days before she actually died, so she had a subdural hematoma,
Speaker 1: and that emmy said she died of child abuse syndrome.
Speaker 2: So this was like long a long time coming.
Speaker 1: So the mother apparently, well, I learned later, after her
Speaker 1: daughter is beaten and left there, she bathed her, she
Speaker 1: tried to get her warm, she apparently did some things
Speaker 1: and then put her to bed. But the child did
Speaker 1: die and was apparently gasping for air. It was like
Speaker 1: a horrible, horrible, horrible end that this poor angel had
Speaker 1: to go through. And the mother, once she was dead,
Speaker 1: calmly goes upstairs tells her neighbor RIVERA, my daughter drowned.
Speaker 2: I need to call nine one one.
Speaker 1: The neighbor calls nine one one, and Rivera testified that
Speaker 1: Nick Salice was completely calm, but the minute she got
Speaker 1: on the phone with a nine to one one call,
Speaker 1: the mom started wailing and moaning and going on and on,
Speaker 1: and then when they hung up, it completely stopped and
Speaker 1: she was calm again. So she testified that she believed
Speaker 1: the crying was fake and that the grieving and all
Speaker 1: this emotional, this, all this emotion was fake.
Speaker 2: What's strange is why would you get the neighbor to
Speaker 2: watch you lie to the police.
Speaker 1: I think she had to borrow the neighbor's phone to
Speaker 1: call nine one one.
Speaker 2: Got it.
Speaker 1: So Rivera's testimony ended up being crucial, improving that Nick
Speaker 1: Marie's mother did nothing to help her, like she was
Speaker 1: sitting there for a prolonged period of time meeting assistance
Speaker 1: and her mother did nothing and honestly waited until she
Speaker 1: was dead to call nine one one.
Speaker 4: Obviously, they go to trial.
Speaker 1: At trial, Rodriguez, the stepfather, tries to pin the whole
Speaker 1: murder on the mother, says she did it basically.
Speaker 2: Even though he had it's to beating her.
Speaker 1: He I sort of tried to make it seem like
Speaker 1: the mother dealt the death blow, even though there's like
Speaker 1: no evidence for that. And it was revealed a trial
Speaker 1: that he routinely had beaten her, he had routinely he
Speaker 1: had molested her, he had locked her in this dirty room,
Speaker 1: like we discussed again, and this is such a fucked
Speaker 1: up detail. But at trial they showed the jury photos
Speaker 1: of the fridge and it was stocked. This is what's
Speaker 1: different from the episode. These people had a fridge filled
Speaker 1: with milk, pancake, mixed salami, tortillas, cream, cheese, lettuce, and
Speaker 1: the yogurt that she was punished for allegedly stealing. It
Speaker 1: wasn't like they were rationing out or they didn't have
Speaker 1: enough food, Like, they had plenty of food in their
Speaker 1: fridge and they were just punishing this girl for taking
Speaker 1: something to eat when she's severely underweight and probably starving.
Speaker 1: So it's really just it's like unbelievable. They find her
Speaker 1: DNA obviously on his belt and jeans. I mean, his
Speaker 1: lawyer must have been like, were fucked because there really
Speaker 1: was no way to get this guy out of this.
Speaker 1: They tried to argue because he had a world's greatest
Speaker 1: dad mug.
Speaker 4: That he was an Okay, dude, are you kidding me?
Speaker 2: That's like, I mean, I feel bad laughing, but that
Speaker 2: is no.
Speaker 1: I know, I'm trying to bring a little bit of
Speaker 1: levity to like maybe one of the worst cases I've
Speaker 1: read about.
Speaker 2: You know, it's like a Simpson's story, like exactly, It's
Speaker 2: like in.
Speaker 1: The office he has world's best boss.
Speaker 2: Mug and he's the worst boss.
Speaker 4: Like it's just crazy.
Speaker 2: So the jury was shown.
Speaker 1: Also a horrific detail was they were shown a tape
Speaker 1: of Rodriguez and Santiago at Target the night before she
Speaker 1: Nick Murray died with all of their other children besides
Speaker 1: Nick Murray, because they obviously couldn't bring her out because
Speaker 1: she had already been beaten so badly. And they're taking
Speaker 1: out buying the other five kids sweets, toys, d Brat's
Speaker 1: dolls like all this wait, sorry, they're just called brad Stalls.
Speaker 1: I just am a fan of de Brat. It's really crazy,
Speaker 1: Like all the kids are in the video, everybody looks happy,
Speaker 1: I'm fine, and there's just this one child that they
Speaker 1: just treat horribly and that.
Speaker 2: I just wonder what the other kids thought and It's
Speaker 2: like I would never blame the other children for not
Speaker 2: doing something about it, but like I am curious what
Speaker 2: they were thinking.
Speaker 1: I think that in those kind of situations, those kids
Speaker 1: are like, as long as it's not me, I mean,
Speaker 1: don't I think that, like you literally get you have
Speaker 1: to build up like a protective barrier with this trauma
Speaker 1: that you have and say, well, if she's getting hit,
Speaker 1: I'm not getting hit.
Speaker 2: Like it's just terrible.
Speaker 1: But I'm not a psychologist, and I don't think any
Speaker 1: of the kids. I think maybe the oldest was fifteen
Speaker 1: or something or and I'm not even positive about that
Speaker 1: timeline because I read an article about the fifteen year
Speaker 1: old having to get therapy because the father forced him
Speaker 1: to do some weird sex.
Speaker 2: Well, I was about to say, even if it wasn't
Speaker 2: as bad as Nick Marie, I'm sure that he abused
Speaker 2: the children.
Speaker 1: Yes, I'm sure he abused the other children, but it
Speaker 1: was actually really difficult to find any evidence of it,
Speaker 1: or like it wasn't reported on. Everybody was really focusing
Speaker 1: on her, like this case rocked New York. Like I
Speaker 1: lived in New York when this case came out.
Speaker 2: I remember her name. I remember reading about it, like
Speaker 2: it was really, really horrible. I really like that you
Speaker 2: are boots on the ground of a lot of New
Speaker 2: York crimes.
Speaker 1: And I was reading the free paper every morning, so
Speaker 1: I was getting a lot of you know, horrible, horrible
Speaker 1: brief reporting on a lot of bad crimes. In the
Speaker 1: spring of two thousand and eight, Rodriguez was convicted. He
Speaker 1: was sentenced to twenty six and a third years to
Speaker 1: twenty nine years in prison. So he was given twenty
Speaker 1: five years for first degree manslaughter and one and a
Speaker 1: third to four years for false imprisonment. And he briefly
Speaker 1: addressed the court and said, I'm just sorry for causing
Speaker 1: anybody any emotional pain or distorted memories about the child.
Speaker 1: I'm just sorry. I loved Nick Murray. And then a
Speaker 1: woman in the crowd yelled murderer, and I'd like to
Speaker 1: give her a high five because I don't really care
Speaker 1: for this man's words.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you know this woman, please send us a
Speaker 2: DM or an email. We would love a little lunch date.
Speaker 1: We will send her very merch. I would love to
Speaker 1: send her free merch for yelling out murderer. So this
Speaker 1: is a kind of a crazy twist in this case too,
Speaker 1: is like, so Santiago and Rodriguez had separate trials, so
Speaker 1: the Santiago is the mother. She is described in one
Speaker 1: article I read as slow witted, like she really had
Speaker 1: sort of a tough life. She had four kids by
Speaker 1: the time. She was twenty two and was living in
Speaker 1: a shelter when she met Rodriguez and they got married.
Speaker 1: So then he lost his job, became increasingly violent. You know,
Speaker 1: I think her options, this is what her defense tried
Speaker 1: to pause. It was that her options were limited. It
Speaker 1: was like, take my six children back to a shelter
Speaker 1: or stay with this violent man. So she stayed with
Speaker 1: the man. At one point, she miscarried, and there were
Speaker 1: conflicting articles I read that said she blamed Nix Marie
Speaker 1: for her miscarriage somehow I don't understand how that I mean.
Speaker 1: And then other articles I read that said that Rodriguez
Speaker 1: had actually beat her and that's what caused the miscarriage.
Speaker 1: So it was really hard to find, you know, fully
Speaker 1: verified information on that. But she did have this miscarriage
Speaker 1: that ended up really traumatizing her. She took the fetus
Speaker 1: home in a jar and kept it in her bedroom,
Speaker 1: so that was something that like the social worker would
Speaker 1: see when she came by, and it was like people
Speaker 1: could see that this woman something was off, and just
Speaker 1: nothing was done, you know. Her lawyers tried to push
Speaker 1: for her to get criminally negligent homicide, which would carry
Speaker 1: a max of four years in prison, and then it
Speaker 1: obviously continued to blame Rodriguez for the murder itself. She
Speaker 1: claimed to not know what he was doing, but like
Speaker 1: there was other evidence that she would often tell him
Speaker 1: to discipline nicks Marie, that it was her being like
Speaker 1: she stole the yogurt, can you go smack her around?
Speaker 5: Like?
Speaker 1: And so I don't think the mother is fully innocent
Speaker 1: here at all. And her lawyer did try to, you know,
Speaker 1: present that she ministered to her daughter, put her in
Speaker 1: a warm bath after this beating, gave her water, like,
Speaker 1: dressed her like, put her near to bed near the
Speaker 1: radiator so she could warm up. I don't really I
Speaker 1: don't really know. And the lawyer argued that with her
Speaker 1: poor education, she could not have known that Nix Marie
Speaker 1: W was dying from the subdural hematoma, even though it's
Speaker 1: been said that she was like gasping for air and
Speaker 1: calling for her mom. So it's like really awful. In
Speaker 1: two thousand and eight, the same year. Later the same year,
Speaker 1: she was found guilty of manslaughter, which is the same.
Speaker 2: Verdict that Rodriguez received.
Speaker 1: So she was acquitted of secondary murder because she was
Speaker 1: previously convicted of four lesser crimes, assault for binding the
Speaker 1: daughter with a bungee cord, giving her a black eye,
Speaker 1: unlawful imprisonment, and endangering her welfare. Santiago was sentenced to
Speaker 1: forty three years in prison, So while her husband got
Speaker 1: max twenty nine for actually committing the murder, she got
Speaker 1: forty three years in prison. She had no reaction when
Speaker 1: the verdict was read and the judge said that there
Speaker 1: would be an order of protection to keep her from
Speaker 1: seeing her other children. I read a really interesting article
Speaker 1: in the New York Times too about the sort of
Speaker 1: pressure that society puts on mothers and that her punishment
Speaker 1: was so much worse because she is seen as a
Speaker 1: mother who failed, rather than a man who beat a
Speaker 1: child to death. You know, like, I think that the
Speaker 1: disparity in their sentences is really wild, and unfortunately, I
Speaker 1: do think it is a cycle of violence that repeats itself.
Speaker 1: I'm sure she didn't come from a you know, from
Speaker 1: what I've read about her, she did not come from
Speaker 1: a super stable background, and so it just continued and continued,
Speaker 1: and she thought, this is probably how life goes.
Speaker 2: I don't think.
Speaker 4: I don't know, But her reaction after her daughter died
Speaker 4: also is suspect.
Speaker 1: But there's speculation that she had, you know, cognitive issues,
Speaker 1: cognitive issues exactly, developmental issues, et cetera. So the real
Speaker 1: connection to this case is and the episode is that
Speaker 1: it shone a huge spotlight on the New York City
Speaker 1: Administration for Children's Services ACS and their failure to handle
Speaker 1: her case correctly. There had been two previous reports against
Speaker 1: the family, one in two thousand and four, two years
Speaker 1: before her death, that was unsubstantiated, and the second was
Speaker 1: in December of two thousand and five when she showed
Speaker 1: up at school with a black eye.
Speaker 2: ACS has said that they tried to access the.
Speaker 1: Home several times and Rodriguez always blocked their entry, and
Speaker 1: that there was a time where she had to get
Speaker 1: stitches and he brought her to the hospital, and when
Speaker 1: Social Services met her at the hospital, he swore at
Speaker 1: her and ended the conversation, and so he obviously knew
Speaker 1: he was committing crimes and was trying to keep the
Speaker 1: I wish that they had been able to pile more
Speaker 1: charges against him, like endangering the other children or you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like I obviously am always pissed about sexism everywhere,
Speaker 2: but in this case, I'm not even I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 2: put her in jail.
Speaker 3: I don't give a fuck, Like.
Speaker 1: It is weird that I want her in jail, But
Speaker 1: you don't think it's like a little crazy that she's
Speaker 1: serving fourteen more years than her husband.
Speaker 2: No, that's what I was gonna say, Like, I don't
Speaker 2: want her serving less time, I want him serving more time.
Speaker 1: Yes, that's if he's in jail forty three years, he
Speaker 1: doesn't get out until he's in his seventies.
Speaker 2: And I think that's great, you know, because he also
Speaker 2: like sexually abused her, Like yeah, more charging.
Speaker 1: I think that, like, yeah, I don't know if those
Speaker 1: were like not provable or what, but it's really horrible.
Speaker 1: But much like in the episode, there was a report
Speaker 1: that they had visited the home.
Speaker 2: Everyone looked good, there was plenty of food.
Speaker 1: Toys, and meanwhile Nicks Marie was twenty pounds underweight, had
Speaker 1: missed forty six days of school and had showed up to.
Speaker 2: School with welts and cuts and bruises.
Speaker 1: So I don't really know where the disconnect is of like,
Speaker 1: I don't really care that there's a bunch of Tonka
Speaker 1: trucks around, like look at the child, like she does
Speaker 1: not look healthy. So the media came after ACS very hard,
Speaker 1: and six Children's Services employees were disciplined over this. The
Speaker 1: excuse was much like what b Goldberg's monologue that the
Speaker 1: investigators are swamped with cases, and the Bloomberg administration said
Speaker 1: that ACS was responding by hiring five hundred and twenty
Speaker 1: five more workers at the time, and he also created
Speaker 1: a city panel much like they said that they were
Speaker 1: doing at the end of this SPU episode that advocated
Speaker 1: multiple changes. Some included better communication with school officials about absenteeism,
Speaker 1: a twenty four hour abuse hotline and then instant response teams,
Speaker 1: and new training for police personnel regarding sensitivity to abuse children.
Speaker 1: And then some of the key changes were police were
Speaker 1: they were going to get a full time supervisor a
Speaker 1: lieutenant which is Benson's rank at the end of this episode,
Speaker 1: to supervise the sort of child well fair headquarters and
Speaker 1: be a liaison between two agencies, and case workers would
Speaker 1: be required to seek entry orders when denied access to
Speaker 1: the home. So you can't just like I understand that
Speaker 1: a social worker cannot fight a man to get into
Speaker 1: the home, but there has to be a way that
Speaker 1: you back it up and get into the home. Like
Speaker 1: if someone's refusing you access.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like, if someone's refusing you access, that's more evidence
Speaker 2: to fucking go into that home.
Speaker 4: Right exactly.
Speaker 1: And school officials will have more license to alert authorities
Speaker 1: when a student has too many unexplained absences. So by
Speaker 1: March of two thousand and eight, which this case, like
Speaker 1: was from two thousand and six to two thousand and eight,
Speaker 1: this case was constantly in the media and ACS launched
Speaker 1: a one million dollar recruitment drive for new welfare caseworkers.
Speaker 1: They had a lot of applications, but retention was really
Speaker 1: difficult because it's a very very difficult job. In two
Speaker 1: thousand and seven, they reported that seventeen percent of the
Speaker 1: caseworkers had quit and the pay for the position at
Speaker 1: that time was thirty nine thousand dollars a year, which
Speaker 1: in New York City, that's a very very low amount
Speaker 1: of money to try to make a living on and
Speaker 1: live in within the five boroughs and take care of
Speaker 1: this population.
Speaker 2: If anything good came out of this.
Speaker 1: Horrific, horrific ordeal that this poor little girl had to
Speaker 1: go through. It was Nick Murray's Law, which was proposed
Speaker 1: in two thousand and six by a New York State senator,
Speaker 1: and the law was designed to deter or prevent child
Speaker 1: abuse related crimes by charging parents connected to the crime
Speaker 1: of the death of their children with first degree murder.
Speaker 1: So the maximum punishment in New York would be twenty
Speaker 1: five years to life in prison. I don't know how
Speaker 1: state government works, but it said. The State Senate passed
Speaker 1: Knicks Murray's Law on February of two thousand and six,
Speaker 1: but then Governor Patterson, the governor of New York, signed
Speaker 1: the bill into law in nine and that requires a
Speaker 1: sentence of life without parole for parents or guardians who
Speaker 1: kill a child.
Speaker 4: So since the passage.
Speaker 1: Of the law, reports to the New York States Child
Speaker 1: Abuse Hotline have increased, so at least there's become hopefully
Speaker 1: you know, and honestly, since it's happened, there have been
Speaker 1: several other high profile cases where children have died in
Speaker 1: acs custody and it is a broken system, but we
Speaker 1: need to fix it because we just can't have kids
Speaker 1: falling through the cracks like this.
Speaker 2: It's just too sad. And do we have any information
Speaker 2: on what happened to the other children or is that
Speaker 2: all super private? They were all moved to foster care. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and then that makes me wonder, like what is their
Speaker 2: future going to be like and what they saw in
Speaker 2: the home and is you know, is that just going
Speaker 2: to be a fucking cycle with them in this broken
Speaker 2: system again. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So anyway, very intense episode, very intense true crime. And
Speaker 1: you know, I just hope that there have been some
Speaker 1: changes at least to the acs where there are at
Speaker 1: least where people are not trying to cover up their
Speaker 1: visits and get paperwork done and fill quotas, because just
Speaker 1: this isn't the kind.
Speaker 2: Of and I think a lot of people go into
Speaker 2: case work, have big hearts and want to do this
Speaker 2: work and then I'm sure very quickly it fucking breaks
Speaker 2: you seeing all these grafic things in and out, and
Speaker 2: then you're not compensated in any way.
Speaker 3: It's like.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I mean the faster here system is also
Speaker 1: like extremely biased against families of color, and it's that's
Speaker 1: another issue as well, Like it's something like four times
Speaker 1: more children get removed from their parents from families of color.
Speaker 1: And I just think that I work for this organization
Speaker 1: that I'll talk more about later in the episode. But
Speaker 1: I was trained in sort of like trying to recognize
Speaker 1: biases when you're in homes of like what what is
Speaker 1: considered a safe home. You know, like a rug on
Speaker 1: the floor is nice, but it's not a necessity, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. Like, for example, another bias we
Speaker 1: were trained on was you can walk into a home
Speaker 1: and be speaking to a small child and they're not
Speaker 1: looking you in the eye, and you could think, oh,
Speaker 1: they're being abused, they are keeping a secret, they're nervous
Speaker 1: around adults.
Speaker 3: What's going on.
Speaker 1: In Native American cultures, it's disrespectful to look an adult
Speaker 1: in the eye. So you know, you have to go
Speaker 1: in knowing that there's all these different cultures to consider,
Speaker 1: and there's all these biases that both state employees and
Speaker 1: volunteers and all different people have when they're going in
Speaker 1: to like observe how a family lives in their own home.
Speaker 1: That's an example, But you know there's certain, there's just
Speaker 1: ways in which I think social workers can sometimes judge
Speaker 1: with their own biases. But anyway, we have a hard
Speaker 1: hitting interview coming up, and I'm excited to talk to
Speaker 1: our next guest. All right, now it is time for
Speaker 1: our guest. I'm so excited to talk to this person.
Speaker 1: She is the best. She has been on Original A,
Speaker 1: Law and Order, she's been on S few A couple
Speaker 1: of times. She does mention that her character is Hooker,
Speaker 1: because that is truly the name of the of the
Speaker 1: character Hooker. You can check the IMDb, so I don't
Speaker 1: think she's being derogatory. And she's been in some classic
Speaker 1: SVU episodes. She's the lead singer of a metal band
Speaker 1: called Alakine's Gun. And she is hopefully just the first
Speaker 1: of many guests that we're going to get who have
Speaker 1: starred on Orange as the New Black, a show that
Speaker 1: Lisa and I are both obsessed with, where she played
Speaker 1: Maria Ruis. Please guys, give it up for Manuela herself.
Speaker 1: Jessica Pimental, You're our first guest that we're talking to
Speaker 1: in in Europe. This is pretty impressive.
Speaker 5: Well, I there's no pressure to represent the entire continent.
Speaker 3: Then I have to be honest.
Speaker 2: And I know this is crazy and I know it's
Speaker 2: all acting, but because of your Orange character, I was
Speaker 2: so intimidated and scared to talk to you. I was
Speaker 2: like kind of panicked. And right away you're just like
Speaker 2: so kind and great and I know it's all make believe,
Speaker 2: but yeah, I was very nervous.
Speaker 5: You know, why would you be scared of Maria? I
Speaker 5: think she's she is, she's great, she's awesome. She's misunderstood
Speaker 5: a bit, she's been through some shit and uh, you
Speaker 5: know she's in jail. What the fuck? Sorry for my
Speaker 5: part of my French. You know, it's a rough life, man.
Speaker 5: I don't blame her for some of the things that
Speaker 5: she's done.
Speaker 1: Well, we definitely want to talk to you about Orange,
Speaker 1: but let's just like really quickly kick off with some
Speaker 1: SVU questions.
Speaker 2: So our first.
Speaker 4: Question is tell us about working with Bruno.
Speaker 1: That little kid was so cute, the one that played
Speaker 1: your little son.
Speaker 5: Oh my god, that little boy as cute as he
Speaker 5: looked in the TV show. No, this is good. He's
Speaker 5: a thousand times cuter in real life. I'm sorry, No, no, no,
Speaker 5: the nightmare. No, he was actually the sweetest. He was
Speaker 5: so shy, and he was so tiny and skinny like
Speaker 5: and he was so and he played so well. It
Speaker 5: was like did I do a cut? Like? He was
Speaker 5: so sweet.
Speaker 2: My god, it was like too much.
Speaker 1: I thought they they've done it too, it's too cute,
Speaker 1: Like you gotta find a less cute kid.
Speaker 2: This kid's breaking my heart.
Speaker 5: But that's the whole point. I mean, how could you
Speaker 5: not like watch that little boy and not be totally heartbroken?
Speaker 5: And he was just like that, and he was wonderful
Speaker 5: to work with. He was so like well behaved. He
Speaker 5: wasn't a brat like a lot of our A lot
Speaker 5: of our movie kids can be brats sometimes. I have
Speaker 5: had like a hundred movie kids at this point in
Speaker 5: my life, and they're not all easy to work with,
Speaker 5: you know, But this kid was a dream. He was
Speaker 5: sweet and lovely.
Speaker 4: Okay, a plus for Bruno.
Speaker 2: I love it well. And then that scene with the
Speaker 2: you getting to visit Bruno iced Tea is harsh with you.
Speaker 2: I've never seen him be this straightforward and mean to
Speaker 2: somebody before. It was like a wild scene. I don't
Speaker 2: know if there's a question, how was it acting with him?
Speaker 5: ICE's ice And I think that's really I had done
Speaker 5: scenes with him before in a previous you know, one
Speaker 5: of my other previous hooker roles, and he was great.
Speaker 5: He's really personable. He's great to work with.
Speaker 3: But it was that.
Speaker 5: Particular episode that we became friends. Koca was there too,
Speaker 5: she's amazing. Their daughter's amazing. I mean, this family, they're
Speaker 5: all great. But I it's very professional. He's very easy
Speaker 5: to work with. He loves to play around, play with acting,
Speaker 5: you know, as we're doing a scene and we had too,
Speaker 5: like he chewed me out a couple of times in
Speaker 5: that episode. Man, I got like, people are taking this
Speaker 5: thing personally. I think, I don't know, but.
Speaker 2: It's one of the more heartbreaking episodes.
Speaker 5: It is really sad, but I mean everyone gives such
Speaker 5: great speeches about just how the system is overrun and overcrowded,
Speaker 5: and like whoopee Goldberg's big monologue there. It made me
Speaker 5: think about my mom a loge as my mom worked
Speaker 5: in the mental health fields. She's a psychologist, and she
Speaker 5: would come home completely exhausted because these are people that
Speaker 5: are just kind of thrown away and like things are
Speaker 5: never getting better, and it's very rough work, especially in
Speaker 5: such a big City, and I just thought that that
Speaker 5: episode was just.
Speaker 2: Really well well done, well made for sure.
Speaker 1: I mean, you're from New York and I was living
Speaker 1: in New York at the time of the case that
Speaker 1: this was based on, the Nick Murray Brown case.
Speaker 2: Do you remember that?
Speaker 1: Like, uh huh, yeah, I was gonna say it was
Speaker 1: so pervasive, Like I just feel like anybody that lived
Speaker 1: in New York at that time, like would remember that.
Speaker 5: Absolutely. That's one of those stories that you hear on
Speaker 5: the news and you just weep, you know, because it's
Speaker 5: just so tragic, and you know that there were hundreds
Speaker 5: of people that would have taken her in or wanted
Speaker 5: to help, or or just people that can't imagine that
Speaker 5: this happens down the street, down the block and your
Speaker 5: neighborhood could be a kid that you see all the
Speaker 5: time and then one day you don't see them anymore.
Speaker 5: I mean, it's really heartbreaking. I think they did a
Speaker 5: good job of telling that story. I mean, you know,
Speaker 5: even Manoela, my character had had that moment where it
Speaker 5: kind of clicks for her that so it's like, oh
Speaker 5: my god, what have I done?
Speaker 2: You know, right right?
Speaker 3: What did they do for hair and makeup?
Speaker 5: For you.
Speaker 2: You were like so sweast, sweaty, and the hair was stiff,
Speaker 2: like what did they put on.
Speaker 1: You when they first find you? You're real, like you're
Speaker 1: real sweat. It's like a very slick layer.
Speaker 5: It's just straight grease. Man. It was gross. It was
Speaker 5: so gross. And I remember the costume and the makeup people.
Speaker 5: We hadn't had a meeting before, and I really I
Speaker 5: feel like that first scene you see me was the
Speaker 5: first scene we did, and the costumely is like, but
Speaker 5: she looks so healthy, like, how are we going? She
Speaker 5: was like, oh no, we really screwed up here, like
Speaker 5: we got she looks nice, like she looks good, and
Speaker 5: they're like, don't you worry? And that those hair and
Speaker 5: makeup people they got. I mean they had to wash
Speaker 5: my hair every day after shooting, and I think we
Speaker 5: had we shot those scenes in three days, but it
Speaker 5: was just layers of goop and gook and teased out.
Speaker 5: Then my teeth had these this yellow coating to really
Speaker 5: make and look rotted out and like you had and
Speaker 5: brush your teeth in weeks.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because you have great teeth, and you got to
Speaker 1: make it look like you've been that you've been using
Speaker 1: for a while so that's not that's not an easy
Speaker 1: can't just have you show up with those pearly whites.
Speaker 2: Acting like a like a drug user, right.
Speaker 5: So they they really cooked up those teeth. It was
Speaker 5: totally crazy. And it's so funny because my brother and
Speaker 5: his wife my sister in law were watching me shoot
Speaker 5: that scene and he was like still he got like upset.
Speaker 5: He's like, oh my god, oh my, Like you don't
Speaker 5: want to see someone you love like all messed up
Speaker 5: like that, you know. And they were they were watching
Speaker 5: this and they just couldn't believe that that change how
Speaker 5: much they really messed me up. But it really was
Speaker 5: like grease and like like some kind of silicone spray.
Speaker 3: Oh okay.
Speaker 5: And at one point, you know, they were setting up
Speaker 5: a camera shot and I was sitting outside. We were
Speaker 5: like in uptown New York and I'm sitting down on
Speaker 5: the sidewalk and someone actually gave me money.
Speaker 2: That's awesome.
Speaker 5: Cameras like because the cameras were pretty far away and
Speaker 5: the lighting you know, we were doing a night shot,
Speaker 5: so there was like no real lighting up yet because
Speaker 5: we're waiting for the sun to set. And someone just
Speaker 5: like felt sorry for the people were looking at me
Speaker 5: like oh disgusting, like pulling their kids away from me.
Speaker 5: You know, it was insane.
Speaker 3: It was so wow.
Speaker 4: That just shows the hair and makeups did a really
Speaker 4: good job.
Speaker 5: But we did a great job.
Speaker 4: It made you look the part.
Speaker 1: So because you've been doing like so many law and
Speaker 1: orders and stuff, like when you ended up doing this role,
Speaker 1: like they just call you in and say we have
Speaker 1: this part for you?
Speaker 2: Or do they do you audition every time? Or like,
Speaker 2: how does it work?
Speaker 5: I auditioned for it. I think it's still uh good
Speaker 5: to audition for sometimes because sometimes you think like an
Speaker 5: actor might be the perfect for that role, the perfect
Speaker 5: person for that role, but then they come in and
Speaker 5: something's not quite right. So they did call me into audition,
Speaker 5: but maybe the list is a little shorter, you know. Sometimes.
Speaker 1: I remember when I was auditioning in New York for commercials.
Speaker 1: I would be in there with like sometimes like Boo
Speaker 1: from Orangees and New Black would be in with me, or.
Speaker 2: Like someone else. I'd be like, well, why am I here?
Speaker 2: Why am I here?
Speaker 1: You never know they're going to pick these amazing actors.
Speaker 2: Well, so over thirty five Oranges, the New Black people
Speaker 2: have been on SVU have you seen any of.
Speaker 3: Your pals, like, like, have you chatted about it?
Speaker 5: Of course? Listen, Law and Order is a rite of
Speaker 5: passage for every New York actor. It's like not official
Speaker 5: until you get that that ton ton money. You're like, yes,
Speaker 5: you have to do one, you know, and if you
Speaker 5: can do more, that's awesome. It's kind of like just
Speaker 5: always kind of grounding work. It always brings you back
Speaker 5: to your humble beginnings so to speak. You know.
Speaker 1: So, I guess by the time you had done like
Speaker 1: this episode of SVU two, you'd already been on the
Speaker 1: Law and Order set like a bunch of times. But like,
Speaker 1: how do you find the set there? Like everybody tells
Speaker 1: us it's like a well oiled machine that everybody's like
Speaker 1: so pro. I mean, I'm sure it's like, did you
Speaker 1: have any like specific thoughts about like working on that set.
Speaker 5: No, everyone is pro and they crank these out so
Speaker 5: they know what they're doing, they know how to do it.
Speaker 5: They get it done. You know. The only thing that
Speaker 5: we had a little setback with was so now it's
Speaker 5: the juicy part. Our lovely Miss Hargitay went to the
Speaker 5: MTV Music Awards on a Sunday night and she was
Speaker 5: supposed to shoot Monday morning.
Speaker 2: Oops, was this during the Taylor Swift time?
Speaker 5: It was exactly that. Oh my gosh. So as we
Speaker 5: can see, she had a lot of fun and I
Speaker 5: think she missed her plane. I'm not sure if she
Speaker 5: missed her plane or forgot or didn't want to take
Speaker 5: the plane, but we had to move some things around
Speaker 5: that day.
Speaker 2: I love it, but.
Speaker 5: I mean, you know, that's life. She does this so
Speaker 5: many of them, you know, like let her live.
Speaker 3: I know exactly.
Speaker 1: It's like how they once in a while let her
Speaker 1: wear a cocktail dress on the show. We're like, look live.
Speaker 1: She's been in four hundred and seventy five plus episodes
Speaker 1: of this show.
Speaker 5: She's given her whole life to that show. Let her live.
Speaker 5: But I mean they were they were so quick to
Speaker 5: just figure out how to make things work without her
Speaker 5: there that it wasn't even an issue. But she had
Speaker 5: a great time.
Speaker 1: That amazing. So let me ask you about let's ask
Speaker 1: I can't. I mean, we were both like huge oranges
Speaker 1: and new Black fans, like we both watched all the
Speaker 1: way the whole thing, every single episode, obsessed. I mean,
Speaker 1: how did you find it? Different being on I mean,
Speaker 1: that must have been such a different kind of show.
Speaker 5: Every show is a different experience, every every show is
Speaker 5: their own family. Every show has their own way of working.
Speaker 5: Every show has different energy. We our crew was amazing,
Speaker 5: is amazing. They're still amazing. They're out there still working
Speaker 5: doing what did they do? Our crew was always amazing,
Speaker 5: always professional, always on point. Our actors, well, you know
Speaker 5: our actors. Everybody brings their A game every time time
Speaker 5: and if they don't, you're going to know about it.
Speaker 5: You know, it's not acceptable. But everyone did their a game.
Speaker 5: Everyone put their literally, blood, sweat and tears into that
Speaker 5: show to make those characters believable and make them people
Speaker 5: that you want to have discussions about after people that
Speaker 5: you work you're going to think about years later. Bringing
Speaker 5: real life stories to life in the comfort of your
Speaker 5: own home. We worked with the Women's Prison Association at
Speaker 5: some points, helping them, donating to them or raising money
Speaker 5: for them, and listening to their stories how they, you know,
Speaker 5: ended up in prison and how they were getting out,
Speaker 5: you know, what the transitions were like. And just in general,
Speaker 5: I think everyone just put their heart and soul into
Speaker 5: that project. So and these characters we played them for
Speaker 5: so many years there, and they evolved so much over
Speaker 5: that time that they're always very very special. They're going
Speaker 5: to all be very special to us.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm embarrassed to say how hard I like, super
Speaker 1: super crying after I finished the last episode.
Speaker 3: Like I just want to say, I cried a lot.
Speaker 5: I was.
Speaker 4: I was alone in my sister's apartment and I was like,
Speaker 4: don't come.
Speaker 2: Home for a few minutes. I was like by myself dying.
Speaker 2: Oh no, no, Well, pajamas reminded me. I also, I
Speaker 2: really am a fan of your fashion. I love that
Speaker 2: dress you wore the sag Wards.
Speaker 3: It was so good. And there was like a blue.
Speaker 2: Dress that you wore to some premiere and yeah.
Speaker 5: Oh thank you so much. Yah.
Speaker 1: We were wondering, like, how does that? How does your
Speaker 1: red carpet style work? Do you do that on your
Speaker 1: own or do you get help or what's up?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 5: I have help. I have had wonderful stylists that have
Speaker 5: picked things for me. But a lot of the times
Speaker 5: I do pick things in advance, or like I'll see
Speaker 5: something and I just say one, I need to wear
Speaker 5: this and I don't know what too yet. But someday someday,
Speaker 5: like that red dress. I wore the scandalous red dress.
Speaker 5: I just saw that on a runway and I was like,
Speaker 5: I need to wear that, and then we got nominated
Speaker 5: and I'm like, and I'm gonna wear it then. But
Speaker 5: just in general, yeah, or I'll find a designer that
Speaker 5: I'm feeling at the time, and then wonderful stylists or
Speaker 5: publicists or whatever will help get me those dresses and
Speaker 5: then we've you know, we'll try on a few, see
Speaker 5: what feels right, see what works. But mostly it's just
Speaker 5: like superhero attitude is like usually the what we're going for,
Speaker 5: some kind of royal superhero, just don't mess with me
Speaker 5: vibe in.
Speaker 2: General, And you've been acting for so long, Like you
Speaker 2: went to the you know, the Fame high school and
Speaker 2: you went to college for the dramatic arts.
Speaker 3: What sparked you?
Speaker 2: Like, do you remember that one show or movie or
Speaker 2: like what got you into acting?
Speaker 5: I have always been a musician my entire life, and
Speaker 5: I really dedicated a lot of my youth to studying music,
Speaker 5: playing the violin, and I did a lot of that
Speaker 5: outside of school. And so then I got to an
Speaker 5: age around junior high where there were special also special
Speaker 5: junior highs in New York where you could go for
Speaker 5: if you were an athlete, or if you were a mathematician,
Speaker 5: if or you were in science whatever. And my school
Speaker 5: had a great artistic program, but the music wasn't quite
Speaker 5: challenging enough for me in that music program. So I
Speaker 5: auditioned for drama in junior high and started doing that.
Speaker 5: And I always loved, you know, reading Shakespeare, I loved
Speaker 5: reading plays. I love Joan of arc I love you know,
Speaker 5: great old drama dramatic things. But then I went to
Speaker 5: performing art high school and I was a music major.
Speaker 5: But I started having problems with my hands because I
Speaker 5: was playing about eight hours a day on average, you know,
Speaker 5: on an average day, some days a little more, some
Speaker 5: days a little less. And I was took a real
Speaker 5: big toll on me on my hands physically, you know.
Speaker 5: I started developing arthritis, tendonitis, repetitive you know, movement things,
Speaker 5: and having music all day. It was like a little
Speaker 5: too much. But the only way you could stay in
Speaker 5: that school is if you auditioned for something else. You
Speaker 5: couldn't just stay and not do anything right. So I
Speaker 5: was able to audition for the drama program in my
Speaker 5: second year and got in and then I was able
Speaker 5: to do both. I was able to still take music
Speaker 5: class and theory class. But then I remember seeing Mercedes
Speaker 5: Rule in the Rose Tattoo in theater on the round,
Speaker 5: and I was completely just blown away. And I'd always
Speaker 5: been going to theaters. I'd always had a great relationship with,
Speaker 5: you know, going to Broadway shows. My mom used to
Speaker 5: make sure we always went. New York kids are very spoiled.
Speaker 5: We're very lucky. A lot of us get to go
Speaker 5: to a lot of plays, get to go to the
Speaker 5: met We get to go see you know, ABT Ballet Company,
Speaker 5: We get to do a lot of cool stuff. So
Speaker 5: I'm not you know, I was no stranger to theater,
Speaker 5: but I just remember seeing her in that play and
Speaker 5: how captivating she was and how captivated the audience was.
Speaker 5: And I'd never seen theater in the realm before, and
Speaker 5: this plays just driven by these two people. It was
Speaker 5: super intense, and I thought, you know, if maybe I
Speaker 5: can't do music now and then I can just start
Speaker 5: really focusing on this, and I think I'll be happy
Speaker 5: doing this. And I really love it. You know, it's
Speaker 5: a great escape. It's imagination, it's it's awesome, and so
Speaker 5: I continued. I took a year off and got myself
Speaker 5: together and figured out where I wanted to go and
Speaker 5: ended up going to the American Academy of Dramatic Arts
Speaker 5: and working on a degree in theater and then just
Speaker 5: off out the bet. Just yeah, been working since.
Speaker 1: So tell us a little bit about the metal music.
Speaker 1: Neither of us. My husband's super into it. When I
Speaker 1: told him I was interviewing you, he was like, send
Speaker 1: me her band. I'm going to listen to it. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, he got you one new listener on Spotify.
Speaker 1: But but like, how did you get into that? I mean,
Speaker 1: I know you said you were a musician like in school.
Speaker 2: I ha, did it make its way to metal? Just
Speaker 2: like teen angst Man's that I go?
Speaker 5: One day? One day my friend and junior high handed
Speaker 5: me this tape called King Diamond, Who's you know, big
Speaker 5: heavy metal guy, a Danish guy. And I was hooked
Speaker 5: from that point on, you know, And it wasn't just metal.
Speaker 5: I'd always kind of been attracted to that stuff. I remember,
Speaker 5: I love rock and roll. Jone Jet was on TV
Speaker 5: and I was like, she has got it down, like
Speaker 5: that woman, She's got it down. That's how you live,
Speaker 5: you know. I remember seeing that video when I was very,
Speaker 5: very very little, and I thought, man, she figured it
Speaker 5: all out, you know. And then just getting older, growing
Speaker 5: up in New York, your friends, you know, introduced you
Speaker 5: to all new stuff. And then we had a great
Speaker 5: hardcore scene, hardcore and punk scene, so that we had
Speaker 5: CBGB's every Sunday matinee, we had the Limelight would have
Speaker 5: Matt would have like hardcore shows or metal shows, and
Speaker 5: then we would hide in the bathroom and then it
Speaker 5: would turn into the dance party that we were too
Speaker 5: young to go to, but then we'd died in the
Speaker 5: shampoo room. Back then, you see all these great bands,
Speaker 5: and then you go to a rave and then and
Speaker 5: then what else. I mean, we had so many clubs,
Speaker 5: so many awesome New York bands, and then then the
Speaker 5: venues were getting bigger and people from out of town
Speaker 5: would come in. That's how I met my guy, he's
Speaker 5: from his band played in one of my favorite clubs
Speaker 5: along with my friends. And then you just start branching
Speaker 5: out meeting people. And yeah, heavy metal, not just heavy
Speaker 5: metal music in general, but hardcore, punk, metal, goth stuff
Speaker 5: that that stuff spoke to me in a way that
Speaker 5: regular top forty stuff didn't speak to me. I wasn't
Speaker 5: living that life. I wasn't, you know, like everyone's.
Speaker 2: So cute, everything so good.
Speaker 5: Worring, Yeah, worring. I want to do you know, dragons
Speaker 5: and magic or someone that was singing about my pain
Speaker 5: or singing about the rough streets of New York or
Speaker 5: you know. That's what attracted me. If you're gonna live
Speaker 5: through music and have a reality that is not yours,
Speaker 5: it should be interesting at least.
Speaker 1: I lived with a hardcore band for a month in
Speaker 1: Boston named American.
Speaker 5: Nightmare, one of my favorites. I love them real.
Speaker 1: They used to play and you lived with the whole band,
Speaker 1: I the lead singer. Okay, I didn't live with him
Speaker 1: in a romantic way. I lived with my friend in
Speaker 1: like another room in the apartment. Okay, yeah, I'm that way.
Speaker 5: I remember the first time American Nightmare played CBGB's it
Speaker 5: was a quite a spectacle. They caused quite a stir.
Speaker 2: Ooh, like, who were these guys.
Speaker 5: They're awesome. They're not from around here, They're from Boston.
Speaker 2: I had no clue about that. Yeah, it's just a
Speaker 2: little thing about me.
Speaker 5: She just likes to throw that out every once in
Speaker 5: a while. You know.
Speaker 1: Actually it just came to me because I don't know,
Speaker 1: maybe I separated them in my mind, but when you
Speaker 1: said hardcore, I was like, oh, hardcore, Yeah, I knew
Speaker 1: this band. I was thinking of metal as like a
Speaker 1: separate thing, but they are kind of hardcore punk metal.
Speaker 1: It's all like from the same kind of family.
Speaker 5: We all used to go see everyone's shows. You'd go
Speaker 5: to a ska show and then a punk show, and
Speaker 5: we'd go swing dancing on Wednesdays, and then you know,
Speaker 5: go to the goth club and look at the floor
Speaker 5: and be all depressed, and then like, you know, like
Speaker 5: we were pretty pretty open to everything musically. I think
Speaker 5: I was not everyone. I was pretty open to everything musically,
Speaker 5: and I just loved experiences. I love. It's nothing like
Speaker 5: growing up in New York City. You know, it's really
Speaker 5: really something special, Especially in the nineties, you know, we
Speaker 5: had just everything was just open and anything could happen
Speaker 5: all the time. Right, it's been you know, I think
Speaker 5: back on those days and like, wow, some magical things happened.
Speaker 4: Oh my husband just texted me, he's really loving your band.
Speaker 5: He's listening to to ala Quine's gun.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just in. You have a new fan.
Speaker 5: Awesome, give him the horns up right there?
Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, love her, love Maria Luiz, love Manuela,
Speaker 1: don't love Manuela, don't love the character.
Speaker 4: Love Jessica. Love Jessica. She's so great.
Speaker 2: I love all her scoop and gossip and yeah, she's
Speaker 2: just a badass. And I do love how much she
Speaker 2: loves her characters.
Speaker 1: And yeah, and now my husband like, actually, he was like,
Speaker 1: I love this band.
Speaker 2: She was texting me. I found it funny that Jared
Speaker 2: is a metal.
Speaker 1: Head huge like hugely like just sits like writing and
Speaker 1: it's like dinner like loves it.
Speaker 2: I really can't imagine. Yeah, it's hard to it's hard.
Speaker 2: It's hard to imagine. But then I also can't imagine
Speaker 2: any other music he would be into. So then he's
Speaker 2: into much random music. Jared's into so much random music.
Speaker 2: So my dad, sorry to bring this up with my
Speaker 2: dad again, No, but he's a hoarder. So he keeps
Speaker 2: bringing up old DVDs and I keeping like, I don't know,
Speaker 2: I'll see if Jared wants them, and he's like no,
Speaker 2: and then he won't give him.
Speaker 6: But I don't know if Jared do not bring any
Speaker 6: more DVDs into my home, Like I'm literally he already
Speaker 6: was like we're moving to Blue Ray, so we already
Speaker 6: have so many Blue Wratt and now it's like they're
Speaker 6: becoming completely obsolete.
Speaker 4: Anyway, let's get to the post mortem of this episode.
Speaker 5: What have we learned?
Speaker 1: This is obviously a fucking gut wrenching episode, a horrific,
Speaker 1: horrific true crime.
Speaker 4: A few lessons to learn from it?
Speaker 2: Well, I think a big one is, you know, like
Speaker 2: we always say, don't go to jail for a man,
Speaker 2: don't let a man hurt your children. I don't is
Speaker 2: that a good one? Like, yeah, fucking kids over boyfriends.
Speaker 2: I think that is a lesson for sure.
Speaker 1: And obviously there's a lot of reform to be done
Speaker 1: to the foster's care system and there's a lot of
Speaker 1: kids that are slipping through the cracks.
Speaker 4: That's not not the best.
Speaker 2: No, it sucks, And it's just like it makes you
Speaker 2: feel so powerless and how big these problems are and
Speaker 2: that it's been this way for thousands of years in
Speaker 2: all of humanity, that we just like let our most
Speaker 2: vulnerable people fucking perish like this, and it's like.
Speaker 1: That, and it's like in the in the episode, obviously
Speaker 1: you're supposed to kind of be like, yeah, WHOOPI Goldberg's
Speaker 1: a little bit of a villain and so like, but
Speaker 1: I think in reality, a lot of foster care workers
Speaker 1: are or case workers and people that work in for.
Speaker 2: The state are really trying.
Speaker 1: But it is an overloaded system with low compensation, and
Speaker 1: like it's just it's broken.
Speaker 2: So it's not it's not.
Speaker 1: Necessarily I don't think there's like villains out there being
Speaker 1: like let's just do the paperwork and let kids get
Speaker 1: beat up. Like I don't think that that's like a
Speaker 1: probably commonplace.
Speaker 2: But it's just a very overworked system. And now that
Speaker 2: you did meant, now that you've mentioned, now that you've
Speaker 2: said it, we're gonna say it.
Speaker 3: Wait, what's the community of my life?
Speaker 2: But we don't say that, but now we've said it.
Speaker 2: Woo pee Goldberg, give her another oscar. I mean the
Speaker 2: performance of a SVU history. I think, like that monologue
Speaker 2: on the stand to me is chilling as fuck.
Speaker 4: What b Goldberg should be the first person to egot twice?
Speaker 1: Yeah, she just fully just read does a lap around
Speaker 1: people and egots a second time.
Speaker 2: You know what's gonna be. It's that married couple that
Speaker 2: wrote the Frozen song. Those fuckers are just gonna keep
Speaker 2: gotting in circles and just like fucking each other with
Speaker 2: their Oscar dildos like they are. They can't stop winning.
Speaker 1: Well, I guess you know more about that Frozen couple
Speaker 1: than I do. But oh, another thing is is if
Speaker 1: mrsha Hart is gonna go to the VMA's and get
Speaker 1: em party and she's gonna miss her flight, everyone's just
Speaker 1: got to give her a pass. She's the hardest working
Speaker 1: woman in show business and we're just gonna give her
Speaker 1: a fucking pass. Okay, she'll get to set when she
Speaker 1: gets to set, Okay.
Speaker 2: And this is not fully a post mortem, but Bade
Speaker 2: Wong was on last Culturista's podcast one that I listened
Speaker 2: to with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, and they asked
Speaker 2: him to describe Marishka in three words. And I think
Speaker 2: you guys might would like to hear this. You can
Speaker 2: listen to the episode. But he described Marishka as dedicated, moral,
Speaker 2: and irreverent.
Speaker 3: So that's pretty funny.
Speaker 2: And then Matt goes, we love a moral queen, and
Speaker 2: I just keep saying that to myself over and over
Speaker 2: on my walks to nobody.
Speaker 3: I'm just like, we love a moral queen.
Speaker 2: Queen for sure. So that's just something that I thought
Speaker 2: you guys would like to know. But yeah, also, if
Speaker 2: you see something, say something or not, I don't know,
Speaker 2: or it could be safe, but yeah, no, definitely.
Speaker 1: I mean like people in the building of this, like
Speaker 1: if you if you're someone is in your building that
Speaker 1: you feel like is But that's tricky too because it's
Speaker 1: like there's biases and there's things you don't know about
Speaker 1: what's going on with people's families, like you don't.
Speaker 4: Know all chat services.
Speaker 2: To cultural services because you hear somebody.
Speaker 1: Maybe yelling at their kid, like you know, it's like
Speaker 1: that's it's just not necessary just because it's like the
Speaker 1: way you wouldn't do it.
Speaker 4: It's it's a slippery slope.
Speaker 2: So I also just keep thinking about how their fridge
Speaker 2: was stocked and it's like, I know that's something like
Speaker 2: the yogurt like that, it's like they had the means,
Speaker 2: like what the fuck?
Speaker 1: No, it was like I think it was like this
Speaker 1: little girl was strong willed, and it's like they say,
Speaker 1: it's like how we talked about in the fritzl case.
Speaker 4: It was more satisfied.
Speaker 1: He had so many daughters to choose from, he chose
Speaker 1: the one whose spirit he wanted to break. You know,
Speaker 1: like this little girl was probably really strong willed, and
Speaker 1: that was just like that something in this in this
Speaker 1: father and this mother that where they punished her all
Speaker 1: the time.
Speaker 2: And maybe we can all focus on not looking away
Speaker 2: when things are difficult and taking that extra moment to
Speaker 2: like reach out to someone that's on the street or
Speaker 2: like give someone.
Speaker 3: Money or go pro to.
Speaker 2: I don't know, just don't look away if you have
Speaker 2: an opportunity. Yeah, that's great advice. Well, because now I'm
Speaker 2: thinking about that. What's happening in Echo Park. That's all
Speaker 2: so fucked up. That's like that kind of news, And
Speaker 2: just like the Derek Chauvin trial starting, and then the
Speaker 2: fucking laws, the Jim Crow laws that are happening in Atlanta.
Speaker 2: It's just like, I know, shitty things have been happening always,
Speaker 2: but I don't know if it's because the Internet or
Speaker 2: we're more aware and we're older now or what, but
Speaker 2: it just seems like so huge and so many shitty things.
Speaker 1: Do you know that that representative in Georgia who got
Speaker 1: arrested for knocking is a friend of mine?
Speaker 5: No?
Speaker 2: I did not.
Speaker 1: Her brother is her brother is my good friend. She
Speaker 1: went to my summer camp. I knew her when she
Speaker 1: was a teenager, and oh yeah she I've been following
Speaker 1: her career in the in politics and anyway. Yeah, if
Speaker 1: you haven't read about what happened to park Cannon in Georgia,
Speaker 1: please look it up. She's awesome and I think, honestly
Speaker 1: we're going to be hearing a lot more from her,
Speaker 1: and that's great.
Speaker 2: The one funny thing about that I saw on the
Speaker 2: internet was someone wrote like, oh, if they want to
Speaker 2: play petty, black people are the most petty people. And
Speaker 2: if we can't have snacks one hundred and fifty feet
Speaker 2: from the thing, we'll have a booth one hundred and
Speaker 2: fifty one feet away. Trust us, we will be handing
Speaker 2: out snacks. So I don't know, but I just wish
Speaker 2: people didn't have to fight so hard, Like, yeah, that's
Speaker 2: the thing, Like it's just it's just all too much.
Speaker 2: I don't know, is that a lesson? Is that what
Speaker 2: you like to hear? It's all too fucking much. And
Speaker 2: you know, I hope you find the joy in your days,
Speaker 2: but don't let things pass you by if you can
Speaker 2: make a difference somehow.
Speaker 1: All right, let's get into what would this you peg Do?
Speaker 1: What this your peg Do is our weekly segment where
Speaker 1: we direct you towards organizations or articles or resources that
Speaker 1: can help shed some more light on the topic.
Speaker 4: That we covered in today's episode.
Speaker 1: Today, I mentioned earlier that I am a volunteer for
Speaker 1: a foster advocacy organization called KASA. It stands for quarter
Speaker 1: Pointed Special Advocate. These arequarter pointed special advocates and guardians
Speaker 1: for foster children. And I joined this organization after Trump
Speaker 1: was elected in twenty sixteen, and I was trained to
Speaker 1: become a volunteer. And I've worked with a couple of kids.
Speaker 1: I'm currently working with one. You work with one at
Speaker 1: a time, and you basically are the child's advocate, so
Speaker 1: you speak to the court on behalf of that child. Now,
Speaker 1: the child has a lawyer, the child's parents probably have
Speaker 1: a lawyer. The child has social workers, they have teachers,
Speaker 1: they have school counselors, they have all these people around them,
Speaker 1: and your job is just to speak for the child
Speaker 1: like you create a relationship with the child where you
Speaker 1: can say what the child wants. It's a great organization.
Speaker 1: I would encourage everybody to look into it. The website
Speaker 1: is KASA gl dot org, so that's national CASA g
Speaker 1: AL dot org.
Speaker 4: That's also going to be in our show notes.
Speaker 1: And if you have the time, it's really like once
Speaker 1: you do the training, it's a monthly it's more of
Speaker 1: a monthly commitment, and then you write court reports and
Speaker 1: stuff like that. But I think it really does make
Speaker 1: a huge difference. There are statistics that show that kids
Speaker 1: with kasas have more success with getting adopted or graduating school,
Speaker 1: and so it's just like extra eyes on kids in
Speaker 1: this system. So yeah, you can message me if anyone
Speaker 1: has any more questions about it. But I work for
Speaker 1: the KASA in La and I know that they have
Speaker 1: them all over the country.
Speaker 3: Kara, I'm very proud to be your friend.
Speaker 2: I'm glad you are you are ACASA, and that you
Speaker 2: know these kids are lucky enough to work with you. Now,
Speaker 2: next week you're welcome. Don't interrupt me again. Okay, next
Speaker 2: week we will be covering the episode intent season nineteen,
Speaker 2: episode eight. It is a wild one, and you can
Speaker 2: always watch the episodes on Hulu or Peacock or any
Speaker 2: international service you use. And you know, check us out
Speaker 2: on social media. We're pretty fucking active and talk soon.
Speaker 2: Bye bye. That's Messed Up as an Exactly Right production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
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Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
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Speaker 2: Thank you so much to SBU super fan and our
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