WEBVTT - Fantasy Novel Recommendations w/ Author Nicola Griffith + Moon Knight Ep 3 & Comic News 0:00:01.040 --> 0:00:03.760 Warning. This podcast contains spoilers for the limited series Moon 0:00:03.840 --> 0:00:07.960 Night on Disney Plus, also the novel Hills, some light 0:00:08.039 --> 0:00:13.360 spoilers by Nicola Griffith, and a number of other fantasy novels, 0:00:14.880 --> 0:00:34.440 so beware. Hello, my name is Jason Stepsion. Welcome next 0:00:34.479 --> 0:00:37.400 Our Vision the Crooked Podcast, where we dive deep into 0:00:37.440 --> 0:00:40.480 your favorite shows, movies, comics and pop culture. In today's episode, 0:00:40.800 --> 0:00:45.120 and previously on lots of comic book news, lead casting 0:00:45.159 --> 0:00:49.600 announcement in the upcoming Percy Jackson series on Disney Plus Plus. 0:00:49.640 --> 0:00:52.720 The MCU's Ironheart series has named its directors, and we 0:00:52.760 --> 0:00:57.120 will do our recap of episode three of Moonnight. In 0:00:57.200 --> 0:01:01.640 the airlock. We're gonna be talking about out fantasy and 0:01:01.720 --> 0:01:05.480 sci fi authors, especially by queer and marginalized authors. And 0:01:05.520 --> 0:01:08.600 then for the Hive Mind, we'd be talking to award 0:01:08.640 --> 0:01:14.440 winning author of many stories including Ammonite, including So Lucky 0:01:15.040 --> 0:01:19.759 and one of Rosie and My favorites Hilled Nicola Griffith, 0:01:20.160 --> 0:01:23.360 and in our nerd out, a listener will pitch us 0:01:23.440 --> 0:01:27.160 on the Illuminatus trilogy. Joining me today to talk about 0:01:27.200 --> 0:01:30.640 all of that and more is The Great, the Powerful 0:01:31.400 --> 0:01:39.319 The Godzilla comic book creating various theory pieces, writing the 0:01:39.360 --> 0:01:43.039 great content creating. Rosie Knight, Rosie, how are you? 0:01:43.319 --> 0:01:46.800 It's me. I'm okay, I have it's content mind. I'm 0:01:46.920 --> 0:01:50.320 scared of the content creating minds. One day to be here. 0:01:51.400 --> 0:01:54.440 The minds are endless and they never stop, and you 0:01:54.520 --> 0:01:56.440 have to just keep mining the same stuff. 0:01:57.000 --> 0:01:59.880 It's like being Instadgy's just there's too many levels. Just 0:02:00.080 --> 0:02:02.760 you's going down, always something else to mine. 0:02:03.160 --> 0:02:07.720 Okay, let's get into the news. Marvel Comics announced recently 0:02:07.920 --> 0:02:10.839 at the Fan Expo in Philadelphia a new title, All 0:02:10.880 --> 0:02:13.760 Out Avengers. This seems like it's going to be kind 0:02:13.760 --> 0:02:17.799 of in the vein of non stop Spider Man created 0:02:17.840 --> 0:02:22.480 by the creative team. All Out of Avengers is of Greg 0:02:22.600 --> 0:02:27.200 land Who, the artist Greg land Who if you've listened 0:02:27.240 --> 0:02:30.880 to us and you know Greg land can be divisive, 0:02:31.320 --> 0:02:36.720 and the novelist Derek Landy. This apparently is going to 0:02:36.800 --> 0:02:41.920 be a kind of like it seems just reading parsing 0:02:41.960 --> 0:02:46.959 the press release tea leaves gonna be something of a 0:02:47.240 --> 0:02:51.280 Ultimates kind of take on the Avengers, more action packed. Certainly, 0:02:52.480 --> 0:02:55.079 you know, the press release basically says they're going to 0:02:55.160 --> 0:02:57.480 just drop you media res into the middle of some 0:02:57.600 --> 0:03:00.720 pitch battle and it's going to be like that, just fight, fight, fight, 0:03:00.760 --> 0:03:04.360 fight fight, action action action action. Your thoughts, Yeah, thoughts 0:03:04.400 --> 0:03:05.000 on Greg Land? 0:03:05.639 --> 0:03:08.280 Well, I've had a lot of Greg Land photo tracing. No, 0:03:08.400 --> 0:03:12.480 but here's one of those artists where every soften I'll 0:03:12.480 --> 0:03:13.840 see a piece of art and I'm like, Oh, my 0:03:13.919 --> 0:03:16.519 fucking god, that's Greg Land. That is so fucking good. 0:03:16.760 --> 0:03:19.280 And I really hope he's bringing that angle to this. 0:03:19.360 --> 0:03:22.360 He can be good, he can be good like and 0:03:22.400 --> 0:03:25.080 you know what, the thing that I really like about 0:03:25.080 --> 0:03:27.080 this is it's doing the thing that Marvel does best, 0:03:27.120 --> 0:03:31.240 which is where Marvel looks to what indie comics are doing, 0:03:31.320 --> 0:03:34.600 looks to what weird other licenses are doing, and it's like, oh, 0:03:34.639 --> 0:03:38.000 we should be doing that. And there's been this incredible space. 0:03:38.040 --> 0:03:40.920 You know, We've talked about that, James Stoko, Godzilla stuff 0:03:41.000 --> 0:03:45.000 like there is you know, these unbelievable artists, Michael Fife, like, 0:03:45.040 --> 0:03:47.400 there's all these different people who are making these comics. Well, 0:03:47.400 --> 0:03:49.280 when you pick them up, you feel like you're just 0:03:49.400 --> 0:03:52.080 in an action movie. You feel even that, you know, 0:03:52.240 --> 0:03:55.080 I have a lot of moral quandaries with it, but 0:03:55.120 --> 0:03:58.520 the Keanu Reeves comic that he that he wrote with 0:03:58.520 --> 0:04:03.720 Matt Kintzak. You know that those comics, there's just this 0:04:04.000 --> 0:04:07.920 unbelievable tone, just boom boom boom boom, action explosions. It's 0:04:07.960 --> 0:04:10.920 not necessarily about like a deeper narrative or selling an 0:04:10.920 --> 0:04:14.240 ip for a movie. It's about the kinetic force of 0:04:14.600 --> 0:04:17.080 what comic book art can do. Like Young Avengers, you know, 0:04:17.120 --> 0:04:19.120 we talk about that a lot, that era of Marvel. 0:04:19.160 --> 0:04:21.640 They were doing stuff where you just go, oh my god, 0:04:21.720 --> 0:04:23.760 how how did this happen? How did you put this 0:04:23.839 --> 0:04:26.279 on the page? And I love that the description is 0:04:26.279 --> 0:04:30.719 they're just like action explosions, no questions. So I want 0:04:30.760 --> 0:04:33.440 to see what that looks like. And I'm hoping it's 0:04:33.440 --> 0:04:38.440 going to be weird and explosive and kind of really exciting, 0:04:38.680 --> 0:04:41.240 because that's not something I feel like we're getting as 0:04:41.279 --> 0:04:44.159 much in Big two comics. So I will be open 0:04:44.200 --> 0:04:45.960 minded to it, and I will definitely put the first 0:04:45.960 --> 0:04:47.279 issue on my pull list. 0:04:47.680 --> 0:04:50.800 Next we get a new big news. This is kind 0:04:50.800 --> 0:04:53.240 of big news, secretly big news, really huge read. 0:04:53.440 --> 0:04:55.120 This is definitely big news. 0:04:55.279 --> 0:04:59.520 Yes, a new origin for Thor. Marvel has announced that 0:04:59.520 --> 0:05:02.800 a new event one million BC, we'll release this ter 0:05:02.920 --> 0:05:09.520 line will delve into the newly revealed origin of Thor, 0:05:09.800 --> 0:05:15.360 our favorite god of Thunder. The image that this announcement 0:05:16.040 --> 0:05:22.520 was teased with showed the phoenix for symbol. No further 0:05:22.560 --> 0:05:26.279 details were available, but of course we learned back in 0:05:26.279 --> 0:05:30.719 twenty twenty one that Lady Phoenix, who is the original 0:05:30.839 --> 0:05:34.760 host of the Phoenix well original the host of it 0:05:35.279 --> 0:05:37.839 that we know right right, the host of the Phoenix 0:05:37.880 --> 0:05:43.120 Force in a million BC, is actually Thor's real mom. 0:05:43.800 --> 0:05:47.840 So there is da There was that reveal, So this 0:05:48.080 --> 0:05:50.279 is going to be very interesting. Your thoughts. 0:05:50.880 --> 0:05:55.040 Yeah, I'm like, mix up this weird stuff. I the 0:05:55.080 --> 0:05:59.360 Phoenix Force. It's truly immortal in the world of Marvel Comics, 0:05:59.400 --> 0:06:01.880 like it will always be there. It's echo Hou holds 0:06:01.920 --> 0:06:04.720 the Phoenix Force every different character, you know. I love 0:06:04.760 --> 0:06:07.280 the Phoenix Force. I'm my eighties X men baby, so 0:06:07.279 --> 0:06:09.279 I'm here to see it. I love Thor, I love 0:06:09.320 --> 0:06:12.240 word cosmic stuff, so I'm open to it. As always, 0:06:12.360 --> 0:06:14.359 as we always say on the shows to the people 0:06:14.360 --> 0:06:17.560 who listen, anything like this is always interesting to keep 0:06:17.560 --> 0:06:20.400 an eye on if you love the MCU, because when 0:06:20.400 --> 0:06:23.400 they set up something like this, it could end up 0:06:23.520 --> 0:06:26.320 in a different way. I'm not saying that in Thor, 0:06:26.360 --> 0:06:29.640 Love and Thunder Thor is gonna suddenly hold the Phoenix 0:06:29.680 --> 0:06:32.719 Force or connect with it, but the idea of changing 0:06:32.760 --> 0:06:36.279 Thor's origin, of introducing something that's not fully as Guardian, 0:06:36.560 --> 0:06:40.839 that seems like they could be seeding something. Also, that 0:06:41.000 --> 0:06:43.800 issue Avenges forty three, that's got letters by like one 0:06:43.800 --> 0:06:46.320 of my favorite letters, Corey Pettit, so shout out to 0:06:46.400 --> 0:06:50.719 Corey anytime I see his name. I'm like, yeah, those's good. 0:06:51.120 --> 0:06:55.200 And to your point, we are entering a period of 0:06:55.240 --> 0:07:00.720 the MCU where we can reasonably expect to see the 0:07:00.920 --> 0:07:07.800 X Men, Jean Gray, potentially the Phoenix Force arrive on screens, 0:07:07.920 --> 0:07:11.200 you know, in the in the near term, so you 0:07:11.280 --> 0:07:16.840 never know. Exciting next up, AX, how would we pronounce 0:07:16.840 --> 0:07:20.320 his AX Judgment day? AXE Judgment Day? What do you think? 0:07:20.360 --> 0:07:21.080 Do you think this is. 0:07:21.040 --> 0:07:23.760 Pree for all? I think it's because it's called the periods. 0:07:23.800 --> 0:07:28.800 I think it's AX, but obviously the acronym is AX, 0:07:28.920 --> 0:07:31.120 so that sounds cool as hell. And they probably also 0:07:31.120 --> 0:07:31.480 want you to. 0:07:31.520 --> 0:07:36.760 Say acts from a really a wow blockbuster creative team 0:07:36.840 --> 0:07:42.400 of Kieran Gillen one of our favorites period and Valario 0:07:42.440 --> 0:07:48.000 Shitty the Wonderful Artist comes Ax Judgment Day and this 0:07:48.600 --> 0:07:50.800 so the press, Rea says, quote kicking off after the 0:07:50.800 --> 0:07:54.000 Eternals boldly attack Mutant Kind's new home in Kracoa. Why 0:07:54.040 --> 0:07:57.320 would you do that? Internal spoiler alert, don't do that. 0:07:57.640 --> 0:08:00.440 This complex saga will pay off various plants thirds that 0:08:00.480 --> 0:08:03.160 have defined these franchise in recent years, including muton Kinds 0:08:03.240 --> 0:08:07.480 new found immortality, the Eternals discovery of long hidden truth 0:08:07.520 --> 0:08:11.360 about their species, and the Avengers intense dealings with the Celestials. 0:08:11.400 --> 0:08:16.200 So a pretty big crossover event with and this one, 0:08:17.040 --> 0:08:19.680 I think for sure will have some revealed absolutions in 0:08:19.760 --> 0:08:21.040 the MCU going forward. 0:08:21.280 --> 0:08:23.840 We we've long said and this is not just us too, 0:08:23.880 --> 0:08:26.080 This is we as the general fan. This is you 0:08:26.160 --> 0:08:28.559 who's listening. This is people at home, This is people 0:08:28.560 --> 0:08:31.240 who have only really read a couple of trades. It 0:08:31.240 --> 0:08:33.520 has seemed like for a long time a really smart 0:08:33.520 --> 0:08:35.080 way for them to bring the X Men into the 0:08:35.160 --> 0:08:37.640 MCU would be some kind of Avengers versus x Men. 0:08:37.720 --> 0:08:41.320 That's a badass team up explosion. It's the kind of 0:08:41.320 --> 0:08:44.520 thing everyone wants to see and now that the Eternals 0:08:44.559 --> 0:08:48.640 exist in the MCU, it seems like it's probably not 0:08:48.679 --> 0:08:54.000 a coincidence to reimagine that battle including the Eternals, who 0:08:54.000 --> 0:08:56.400 have often been on the outside of things. I'm sure 0:08:56.440 --> 0:09:00.240 there's a different universe, a different timeline that we would 0:09:00.240 --> 0:09:03.000 be living in where this would be Avengers, X Men 0:09:03.040 --> 0:09:05.319 and the Inhumans, but that's not the world we're living in. 0:09:05.400 --> 0:09:07.840 We're living in the world of the Eternals, you know, 0:09:08.559 --> 0:09:10.760 And so I think it's very telling. I think this 0:09:10.880 --> 0:09:14.560 is really exciting because I read amore X Men number one, 0:09:14.760 --> 0:09:16.920 which was Kieran Gillan jumping back on the X Men 0:09:17.080 --> 0:09:20.080 after a while, and it was so good and so 0:09:20.320 --> 0:09:24.480 funny and so exciting. It launches the new age of 0:09:25.320 --> 0:09:28.000 the Second Age of Krokoha, which they're calling the Age 0:09:28.040 --> 0:09:30.480 of Destiny, because the lady and icon Destiny is back. 0:09:30.520 --> 0:09:32.120 I love her, and she's. 0:09:32.040 --> 0:09:33.079 Back saying she's crazy. 0:09:33.720 --> 0:09:37.880 It's some crazy Sun's so crazy. Will never win. Everyone 0:09:37.960 --> 0:09:40.679 knows that's the rule. Like, you can't do anything about it. 0:09:40.720 --> 0:09:44.120 So every time she's got something to say, I'm like that, Oh, 0:09:44.200 --> 0:09:44.719 there we go. 0:09:44.920 --> 0:09:47.840 Oh that's why Moira tagget, you know, she didn't want 0:09:47.880 --> 0:09:50.199 her back. She said, no, pre cogs, it's a bad idea. 0:09:50.920 --> 0:09:52.440 And so I think this is going to be a 0:09:52.480 --> 0:09:55.040 massive event. I think the creative team is badass. 0:09:55.320 --> 0:09:55.800 It is. 0:09:56.360 --> 0:09:58.160 If you have recently set up a Paul List and 0:09:58.200 --> 0:10:00.800 have X Men books on it, you may experience for 0:10:00.840 --> 0:10:04.320 the first time the epic highs and devastating lows of 0:10:04.320 --> 0:10:08.840 an event where suddenly there's twenty five books in your thing. 0:10:08.880 --> 0:10:10.959 But it seems like this will be relatively small. I 0:10:10.960 --> 0:10:13.080 think it's going to be like Immortal X Men X 0:10:13.120 --> 0:10:16.040 Men Red, so it's going to be X tight or heavy. 0:10:16.320 --> 0:10:18.080 But this is one I think to keep an eye 0:10:18.080 --> 0:10:21.600 on because, like we said, blockbuster Creative Team unreal art, 0:10:22.040 --> 0:10:27.079 but also could potentially seed some things that we may 0:10:27.120 --> 0:10:29.120 be seeing in the future of them. 0:10:29.600 --> 0:10:33.480 I agree. So it's interesting to think about, like, really, 0:10:34.480 --> 0:10:38.080 how close I mean, two of the three teams already exist, right, 0:10:38.080 --> 0:10:41.319 We've got the Avengers here, Eternals are here, X Men 0:10:41.360 --> 0:10:45.560 to come. But I keep thinking, so, you know, in 0:10:45.600 --> 0:10:51.319 the comics, the Avengers eventually move into the like the 0:10:51.760 --> 0:10:55.240 body of a celestial to use as their new Age 0:10:55.280 --> 0:10:56.920 Q And of course at the end of Eternals, right, 0:10:57.040 --> 0:10:59.640 we've got this celestial that is sticking out of the 0:10:59.640 --> 0:11:03.000 ocean and very cool looking, very very cool, and I 0:11:03.040 --> 0:11:05.240 have to assume that at some point an Avengers team 0:11:05.280 --> 0:11:07.720 is going to move in there. Do you have any 0:11:08.520 --> 0:11:11.480 thoughts about who would be a member of that team? 0:11:12.280 --> 0:11:16.200 Surprisingly, I do so. I think that we're about to 0:11:16.360 --> 0:11:20.560 enter the era that we have so smartly how the 0:11:20.679 --> 0:11:26.280 Jacket Avengers they wore bomber jackets. They included you know, 0:11:26.800 --> 0:11:30.560 Circe who he saw. They included Dane Whitman as Black Knight. 0:11:30.800 --> 0:11:34.880 They included uh, you know, wonder Man, somebody who we 0:11:34.960 --> 0:11:37.880 know is deeply connected to wander and Vision. You know. 0:11:38.240 --> 0:11:41.560 I think that there's a lot of potential hercules someone 0:11:41.600 --> 0:11:43.560 that we've been expecting to see in this Avengers for 0:11:43.600 --> 0:11:46.040 a long time. I think that we could see I 0:11:46.080 --> 0:11:48.079 think that we're on the right track imagining that we're 0:11:48.080 --> 0:11:50.960 going to see multiple different versions of the Avengers. But 0:11:51.080 --> 0:11:53.959 I think that if we're going to get like a 0:11:54.000 --> 0:11:57.040 primary just Avengers team, I think we're looking more at 0:11:57.040 --> 0:12:00.920 that kind of like Jacket Avengers kind of wild era 0:12:01.040 --> 0:12:02.880 that also is an era that could cross over with 0:12:02.920 --> 0:12:06.240 like a Monica Rambo. Yeah, Avengers, you know which I 0:12:06.280 --> 0:12:08.400 think is very likely. So could we see a sword 0:12:09.040 --> 0:12:11.480 kind of created Avengers. I want to see them living 0:12:11.520 --> 0:12:13.720 in that celestial That was like so cool. 0:12:14.200 --> 0:12:18.360 I think it's going to be Monica Rambo, Jane Foster 0:12:18.520 --> 0:12:22.080 thor doctor Strange. 0:12:22.280 --> 0:12:25.080 Oh you know what Falcon Captain America. 0:12:24.679 --> 0:12:28.960 That with Falcon Cats in America ye blade Oh yeah, 0:12:29.000 --> 0:12:35.040 and then whatever they're going to like, uh whoever the 0:12:35.080 --> 0:12:36.240 new Black Panther. 0:12:36.080 --> 0:12:40.240 Is yes, which we will see when Wakanda Forever comes out. 0:12:40.880 --> 0:12:44.280 So very exciting. Yeah, I can't wait to pick this 0:12:44.320 --> 0:12:46.960 one up. Next up, we go to d C DC's 0:12:47.000 --> 0:12:50.160 Death of Justice League and Dark Crisis. DC is promoting 0:12:50.200 --> 0:12:53.480 the Justice League's demise in the Death of Justice League 0:12:53.559 --> 0:12:56.480 the final issue of the series, and that's it. They're 0:12:56.520 --> 0:12:59.400 not going to do Justice League anymore again. Ever again, 0:12:59.440 --> 0:13:05.480 it happened over, It's done, that's it. Fans were told 0:13:05.640 --> 0:13:08.360 Justice League. Justice League would face a dark army of villains, 0:13:08.720 --> 0:13:10.520 but now we get our first look at who makes 0:13:10.600 --> 0:13:12.880 up this villainous group. In preview RT for Justice League 0:13:13.040 --> 0:13:16.520 number seventy five, which is out will be out next week. 0:13:17.520 --> 0:13:20.240 It has come from the creative team Josh Williamson and 0:13:20.360 --> 0:13:25.120 artist Ralfisnoval your thoughts on the death of Justice League 0:13:25.120 --> 0:13:25.760 in Dark Crisis. 0:13:25.760 --> 0:13:28.240 I'm such a fan of Joshua Williamson and everything that 0:13:28.320 --> 0:13:30.440 he's done on this. I really discovered him during his 0:13:30.520 --> 0:13:32.319 time on Flash, and I just think he's doing a 0:13:32.360 --> 0:13:38.280 lot of really exciting stuff. I deeply respect and appreciate 0:13:39.080 --> 0:13:43.480 the editorial idea of basically eliminating the Justice League just 0:13:43.600 --> 0:13:46.040 before this kind of huge trial of the Amazons and 0:13:46.080 --> 0:13:48.760 introducing this new age of themis gerra I think it's 0:13:48.800 --> 0:13:53.520 really smart. I love creepy dark Dark Crisis. I like 0:13:53.760 --> 0:13:56.959 the you know, I like the metal stuff that they 0:13:56.960 --> 0:13:59.000 were doing with DC. It was really over the top 0:13:59.000 --> 0:14:02.080 and kind of ninety six. Dream Raffer is a great artist, 0:14:02.120 --> 0:14:05.760 so I think this is really interesting. It it feels 0:14:05.800 --> 0:14:08.680 almost a bit like to me, like people aren't talking 0:14:08.720 --> 0:14:12.600 about it, and I feel like when it happens, people 0:14:12.640 --> 0:14:15.040 are going to start talking about it, you know, Like 0:14:15.160 --> 0:14:18.080 this is even though we know as comic book fans, 0:14:18.640 --> 0:14:22.400 the Justice League is not gonna go away forever spoiler right, spoiler, 0:14:23.080 --> 0:14:25.920 it's still a big deal. Like remember when they killed 0:14:25.960 --> 0:14:29.360 Superman Superman, that's we still talk about that event, Like 0:14:29.480 --> 0:14:32.920 this is a thing that is occurring. I mean it's. 0:14:32.840 --> 0:14:36.960 As I cried, an Adventures dissemble and this was like 0:14:37.600 --> 0:14:41.200 the second time in five years that didn't even think. 0:14:41.440 --> 0:14:44.320 Yeah. Also, there's like really cool artists, Like I really 0:14:44.360 --> 0:14:47.600 like Stephanie Phillips, She's done a brilliant job writing like Harlequin, 0:14:47.760 --> 0:14:49.920 a bunch of cool stuff. Leila del Luca is an 0:14:49.920 --> 0:14:53.920 amazing artist. Emmanuela Lupaccino, like they're gonna have They're gonna 0:14:53.920 --> 0:14:57.240 they're bringing in like an a team, And I want 0:14:57.240 --> 0:14:59.840 to see what the ramifications are because there's a lot 0:14:59.840 --> 0:15:02.360 of books people really love at the moment, you know, 0:15:02.920 --> 0:15:05.760 the night Wing stuff is like so spectacular. Like, I 0:15:05.800 --> 0:15:08.360 want to know how this affects it. What does it 0:15:08.440 --> 0:15:11.320 mean for Trial of the Amazons? You know, is it 0:15:11.360 --> 0:15:14.160 gonna be is that gonna leave a power vacuum that's 0:15:14.200 --> 0:15:16.200 gonna impact that? Or is this more of a kind 0:15:16.240 --> 0:15:18.960 of will there be a twist that means this doesn't 0:15:19.000 --> 0:15:21.360 really affect it. I like to see how these things 0:15:21.400 --> 0:15:22.720 tie in, so I think it's really cool. 0:15:24.680 --> 0:15:28.520 Next up, Percy Jackson on Disney Plus Casts its title 0:15:28.560 --> 0:15:31.920 role cast. It's Percy, the Percy Jackson and the Olympian 0:15:32.080 --> 0:15:36.280 series at Disney Plus has cast Walker Scobell from you 0:15:36.360 --> 0:15:38.760 might know him from the Netflix film The Adam Project 0:15:38.760 --> 0:15:41.520 and title role. The series, of course, is an adaptation 0:15:41.720 --> 0:15:45.200 of the Rick reard In book series and was ordered 0:15:45.240 --> 0:15:48.880 by the streamer back in back in January. This is 0:15:49.000 --> 0:15:53.720 relevant because, and particularly for today's episode, where we're trying 0:15:53.760 --> 0:16:00.640 to focus on creators who are elevating voices and working 0:16:00.640 --> 0:16:04.000 from a personal experience that is out of perhaps what 0:16:04.120 --> 0:16:08.800 people are considered the mainstream. We're talking about disability, literature, 0:16:09.520 --> 0:16:13.120 queer creators, queer characters, etc. And Percy Jackson has both 0:16:13.160 --> 0:16:20.440 ADHD and dyslexia and triumphs and takes part in a 0:16:20.480 --> 0:16:25.360 bunch of rip roaring adventures despite these his disabilities NERD 0:16:25.440 --> 0:16:28.800 and has long been an advocate for marginalized and underrepresentative 0:16:29.000 --> 0:16:32.120 of voices in why fiction. And I know that this 0:16:32.280 --> 0:16:35.440 is something as our producer Saul was telling us in 0:16:35.760 --> 0:16:37.640 the pre pro meeting, this is something that a lot 0:16:37.640 --> 0:16:40.360 of fans of the series have really been waiting for. 0:16:40.640 --> 0:16:44.160 Yeah, like the movies didn't necessarily deliver for everyone on 0:16:44.280 --> 0:16:46.080 kind of the scope of what these can be, So 0:16:46.160 --> 0:16:50.240 I think a series gives a long kind of format 0:16:50.280 --> 0:16:52.800 storytelling is like a better space for telling these kind 0:16:52.800 --> 0:16:55.240 of epic stories of a kid who's like half god, 0:16:55.320 --> 0:16:58.400 half human, you know. And yeah, and he definitely the 0:16:58.480 --> 0:17:01.240 ADHD and dyslexia thing is way ahead of its time, 0:17:01.280 --> 0:17:04.080 and the way that Rick writes it is it is, 0:17:05.680 --> 0:17:08.480 it's helpful, it's what makes him him, you know. It's 0:17:08.640 --> 0:17:10.480 very much in the mindset of how people think about 0:17:10.520 --> 0:17:12.639 disability now, which is it's a part of you, and 0:17:12.680 --> 0:17:14.520 it's a good part of you. It's just society that 0:17:14.560 --> 0:17:17.000 doesn't see it. And I'm a big fan of Rick, 0:17:17.080 --> 0:17:19.320 not just because of these books, which obviously, like we read, 0:17:19.359 --> 0:17:23.199 they were one of those primary sci fi fantasy kind 0:17:23.240 --> 0:17:25.399 of books when you're a kid, but he has a 0:17:25.440 --> 0:17:28.200 he actually has an imprint called Rick Rawdan Presents, which 0:17:28.280 --> 0:17:33.720 is like specifically focused on publishing brilliant middle grade and 0:17:34.560 --> 0:17:37.680 kind of sci fi fantasy, magical books but like from 0:17:37.760 --> 0:17:41.080 underrepresented authors. And I've seen so many incredible books come 0:17:41.080 --> 0:17:43.720 out of that imprint, and I just think he's kind 0:17:43.720 --> 0:17:45.840 of doing that thing that you always hope when somebody 0:17:45.840 --> 0:17:48.840 writes something that's really special to you, which is the 0:17:48.840 --> 0:17:51.439 bigger his platform grows, the more good he does with it. 0:17:51.480 --> 0:17:54.520 And I think something that's really exciting about a Percy 0:17:54.600 --> 0:17:57.080 Jackson show on Disney plass is I think that that 0:17:57.440 --> 0:18:00.119 mentality is going to come through into the show and 0:18:00.200 --> 0:18:02.840 I'm really excited to see how it translates to the 0:18:02.840 --> 0:18:06.160 on screen representation as well. And I like that they 0:18:06.200 --> 0:18:09.160 cast the actual kid this kid as well, he's a baby, 0:18:09.520 --> 0:18:11.160 Like that's what I want to see. 0:18:11.160 --> 0:18:15.560 Up next, Ironheart gets its directors. Ryan Coogler is joining 0:18:15.640 --> 0:18:19.199 as a producer. This per Deadline, Marvel's Ironheart series on 0:18:19.240 --> 0:18:25.040 Disney Plus is moving into the different stages of production now. 0:18:25.040 --> 0:18:28.080 Of course, Ironheart is the story of Reary Williams, who 0:18:28.320 --> 0:18:31.399 is as of now canonically the smartest character in the 0:18:31.400 --> 0:18:35.000 Marvel universe, a genius inventor, kind of like the heir 0:18:35.200 --> 0:18:38.399 to a lot of the things that Tony Stark has done. 0:18:39.200 --> 0:18:42.320 She will get her own advanced suit of armor. And 0:18:42.400 --> 0:18:45.840 of course we're down, We're down in iron Man right now. 0:18:45.880 --> 0:18:48.560 We need we need someone in the armor right now, 0:18:48.640 --> 0:18:51.320 and it very much could be Reree Williams at some 0:18:51.359 --> 0:18:53.960 point in time. Your thoughts, This is really exciting, Yeah, 0:18:54.000 --> 0:18:54.720 it's really exciting. 0:18:55.680 --> 0:18:59.560 It connects to one of the things that we love 0:18:59.640 --> 0:19:04.359 the most, which is like the reality that really is 0:19:04.400 --> 0:19:06.320 going to be a big part of the Black Panther world. 0:19:06.520 --> 0:19:07.200 It's Yeah, with. 0:19:07.280 --> 0:19:10.920 Ryan being there, it seems like that is the case. 0:19:11.040 --> 0:19:12.840 We were talking about this in a pre pro and 0:19:12.880 --> 0:19:15.119 you had I don't know if this is your theory, 0:19:15.280 --> 0:19:17.119 but it was the first I heard of it. You 0:19:17.160 --> 0:19:19.639 had a good theory about how they may approach Black 0:19:19.680 --> 0:19:20.840 Panther going forward. 0:19:21.160 --> 0:19:24.359 Yeah, this is my current theory. I think that Marvel 0:19:24.440 --> 0:19:28.840 really sees the impact that Black Panther had and the 0:19:30.080 --> 0:19:31.960 what it meant to people around the world, what it 0:19:31.960 --> 0:19:34.000 meant to black people, what it meant to African American 0:19:34.000 --> 0:19:35.800 people in America, and I think that they're going to 0:19:35.920 --> 0:19:38.760 use it as a tempole space for black heroes, and 0:19:38.800 --> 0:19:40.600 I think that is going to be their hub. I 0:19:40.600 --> 0:19:45.160 think that Reary Williams, who went to MIT and it 0:19:45.240 --> 0:19:47.920 is like this unbelievably smart student. I don't think it's 0:19:47.960 --> 0:19:51.800 a coincidence that Ryan Coogler is producing that show and 0:19:51.840 --> 0:19:54.760 that Black Panther is one of the few movies were 0:19:54.800 --> 0:19:57.560 kinda Forever that has ever been allowed to film actually 0:19:57.600 --> 0:20:00.480 on the MIT campus because they said it would elevate 0:20:00.520 --> 0:20:04.040 the school and promote the meanings. I don't think that 0:20:04.080 --> 0:20:06.479 you're going to go to MIT and not see re Re, 0:20:07.040 --> 0:20:09.119 you know, and we just say, you know, Rua Williams 0:20:09.240 --> 0:20:12.600 created by Eve Ewing, who's just so brilliant, Mike Darto, 0:20:12.680 --> 0:20:15.520 Brian Michael Bendis, Kevin Lebron, They're like, this is a crew. 0:20:15.560 --> 0:20:18.960 But Eve was such a huge part of bringing Reedy 0:20:19.040 --> 0:20:23.400 to life and making this character that we just all 0:20:23.520 --> 0:20:26.440 love so much who immediately became a fan fave. And also, 0:20:26.440 --> 0:20:27.960 if you think about re Read, the thing I think 0:20:28.080 --> 0:20:30.359 is really exciting about this is this is not just 0:20:30.400 --> 0:20:33.720 about new black characters. We're about to go into Armor Wars, 0:20:34.040 --> 0:20:36.199 so we're gonna have this story where Roady is going 0:20:36.240 --> 0:20:38.359 to be at the center of Armor Wars. It's going 0:20:38.400 --> 0:20:41.280 to be a story about somebody misusing Stark Tech, and 0:20:41.359 --> 0:20:43.440 Roady is going to need as many people as possible 0:20:43.480 --> 0:20:46.919 on his side who understands Stark Tech, who understand technology. 0:20:47.080 --> 0:20:49.600 Tony is no longer there. I would love to see 0:20:49.680 --> 0:20:53.840 re Re brought in have a major part of that storyline. 0:20:54.119 --> 0:20:56.160 And I don't think it's a I don't think it's 0:20:56.160 --> 0:21:00.560 a mistake either. That uh MJ played by the wonderful 0:21:00.800 --> 0:21:06.159 Daya and in Spider Man No Way Home where she 0:21:06.280 --> 0:21:08.280 going to college, she's going to Mit. I think that 0:21:08.320 --> 0:21:12.920 they are. It can't be a coincidence we're looking. I 0:21:12.960 --> 0:21:17.400 would imagine that they will meet. And to your point, 0:21:18.119 --> 0:21:22.399 maybe this is the the we're kind of witnessing the 0:21:22.440 --> 0:21:27.000 early formations of what will be a hub for the 0:21:27.040 --> 0:21:32.720 Brown superheroes in the MCU. Let's go to our recap 0:21:32.960 --> 0:21:36.760 of Moonnight episode three, The Friendly Type, written by Bodomeo 0:21:36.800 --> 0:21:40.680 and Peter Cameron and Sabir Prasada and directed by Mohammed Diab. 0:21:42.160 --> 0:21:47.000 This was I was not expecting this episode to delve 0:21:48.400 --> 0:21:57.879 into Stephen slash Marks experiences with this kind of like 0:21:58.200 --> 0:22:04.200 consciousness dislocation, essentially mental illness in the way that it presents, 0:22:05.640 --> 0:22:08.560 and this did it in a really evocative and interesting way. 0:22:08.720 --> 0:22:13.040 Let's get into recap. Okay Layla had We open with 0:22:13.200 --> 0:22:14.879 what we can only expect to be some kind of 0:22:16.240 --> 0:22:19.480 cold open of which we will learn more. Layla is 0:22:19.520 --> 0:22:23.560 having her passport forged, and she is griping about Mark 0:22:23.800 --> 0:22:26.480 and what just went down with the SCAAB and how 0:22:26.520 --> 0:22:28.240 now she has to go back to home to Egypt, 0:22:28.280 --> 0:22:31.080 and she's not really too enthused about going back to Egypt. 0:22:31.400 --> 0:22:34.040 She's been gone ten years, during which time she has 0:22:34.080 --> 0:22:41.080 been busy repatriating ancient relics, which is a highly moral, 0:22:41.240 --> 0:22:45.960 of course activity, also a very illegal activity, and also 0:22:46.040 --> 0:22:48.320 one which she's not exactly doing out of the goodness 0:22:48.359 --> 0:22:50.800 of her heart. She is she admits, like, yeah, making 0:22:50.840 --> 0:22:55.320 money from some of that, Like I returned most of them, 0:22:55.400 --> 0:22:57.840 and then some of them I do sell for a profit. 0:22:58.160 --> 0:23:01.800 Layla's father, we learn, was archaeologist, which is very much 0:23:01.800 --> 0:23:05.119 in keeping with the original Moon Night. Yeah, it's the 0:23:05.160 --> 0:23:06.280 original moon Night comic. 0:23:07.080 --> 0:23:11.840 If Layla is on Marline, who is Moonnight's often lover 0:23:12.000 --> 0:23:15.719 and partner. Her father was an archaeologist. Her father was 0:23:15.800 --> 0:23:18.320 innate to the origins of Moonnight, which we also get 0:23:18.320 --> 0:23:20.960 into this episode, so definitely taking from those comacs. 0:23:21.280 --> 0:23:24.800 And apparently her dad taught her the importance of the 0:23:24.920 --> 0:23:32.640 forged documents when smuggling illicit artifacts across borders, and we're 0:23:32.680 --> 0:23:35.480 left to wonder what possibly her dad would think of 0:23:35.520 --> 0:23:37.680 her now. And then we flashed through the desert. Somewhere 0:23:37.680 --> 0:23:40.320 in the desert, Arthur Harrow, guided by the scab arrives 0:23:40.720 --> 0:23:44.040 at a mountain and we understand that this must be 0:23:44.119 --> 0:23:49.600 the tomb of Ahmit. Elsewhere we meet Mark media res 0:23:49.760 --> 0:23:53.960 like he is running into three tough guys, three local 0:23:53.960 --> 0:23:59.920 guys who have just killed some person that has information 0:24:00.080 --> 0:24:03.840 that Mark needs. And they are apparently in some way 0:24:04.080 --> 0:24:07.520 either working for or affiliated with Arthur Harrow, and they 0:24:07.560 --> 0:24:13.760 have knives and they twirl them flashily, and then Mark 0:24:14.000 --> 0:24:16.600 fights them and he seems to have things pretty much 0:24:16.600 --> 0:24:19.840 in hand, but then he seizes reflection in a knife blade, 0:24:19.840 --> 0:24:22.040 and all of a sudden, he's hurtling through time and 0:24:22.080 --> 0:24:24.000 we understand that he's lost time. Now this is very 0:24:24.000 --> 0:24:27.439 interesting because you'd think, and we have been primed to 0:24:27.520 --> 0:24:31.679 expect that when something like this happens, the Stephen or 0:24:31.680 --> 0:24:34.760 whoever the other person is that is, you know, waiting 0:24:34.800 --> 0:24:38.160 on the bench, will then seize the body. But instead 0:24:38.600 --> 0:24:41.560 Mark has just lost an unknown amount of time. And 0:24:41.640 --> 0:24:43.440 he finds himself in the back of a taxi on 0:24:43.440 --> 0:24:46.800 the way to the airport, and he as he's driving by, 0:24:46.840 --> 0:24:48.720 he sees two of the tough guys that he was 0:24:48.800 --> 0:24:52.119 just fighting on the street and he goes out and 0:24:53.160 --> 0:24:56.600 he goes to fight them again, but then another glance 0:24:56.640 --> 0:24:59.000 at his reflection, and the cycle repeats, and now Mark 0:24:59.080 --> 0:25:01.359 is somewhere else in the city having just murdered one 0:25:01.400 --> 0:25:03.120 of the guys. What do you think is going on here? 0:25:03.240 --> 0:25:05.040 Is because this is interesting, This. 0:25:05.000 --> 0:25:07.960 Is the thing, This is the interesting moment. So when 0:25:08.000 --> 0:25:10.920 it first happens, I think we see Stephen say Mark 0:25:11.000 --> 0:25:12.960 stop doing that or something, and you think, oh, well, 0:25:13.040 --> 0:25:16.879 Stephen's taking the body. But as Mark wakes up and 0:25:16.920 --> 0:25:19.480 he's stabbed this guy killing him, you know, the body 0:25:19.480 --> 0:25:22.320 count here is very high. Mark's like, Stephen, what did 0:25:22.359 --> 0:25:25.199 you do? Steven's like, right, I didn't do that. So 0:25:25.240 --> 0:25:27.200 that I think the implication is here. 0:25:27.320 --> 0:25:31.400 Jake Lockley way. 0:25:29.840 --> 0:25:32.560 Because they are reimagining these characters in ways that we 0:25:32.600 --> 0:25:35.600 haven't seen before. So it could be Jake Lockley. It 0:25:35.680 --> 0:25:38.720 could be, for all we know, Konshu like a more 0:25:39.080 --> 0:25:42.400 he's violently. It could be a character we haven't met yet. 0:25:42.400 --> 0:25:45.280 It could be a reimagining of mister Knight. But obviously 0:25:45.520 --> 0:25:48.760 I think the the immediate answer would be Jake Lockley. 0:25:48.760 --> 0:25:50.919 And if I was Easter air hunting, which I always am, 0:25:51.000 --> 0:25:53.800 I would say Mark waking up in the back of 0:25:53.840 --> 0:25:55.240 a taxi, Jake Lockley. 0:25:54.920 --> 0:25:55.800 As a taxi driver. 0:25:55.920 --> 0:25:58.920 I feel like they won us to think of that. Also, 0:25:59.200 --> 0:26:03.080 a funnyasterg from the opening Forger section, which is only 0:26:03.119 --> 0:26:06.080 for people with hard of hearing or who have captions 0:26:06.119 --> 0:26:08.960 on the forger who is credited as a forger. They 0:26:09.040 --> 0:26:12.360 name her Leagaro, which is this really funny like nineteen 0:26:12.520 --> 0:26:16.040 forties Marvel Egyptian hero who is also called Dyna Man. 0:26:16.240 --> 0:26:17.879 So no, it's not the character, but that was the 0:26:17.880 --> 0:26:21.240 funny st egg. But yeah, I think we're venturing into 0:26:23.040 --> 0:26:27.560 more altars or personalities, or whichever version they decide to do. 0:26:27.920 --> 0:26:31.800 And I think that, though it doesn't really get explored 0:26:31.880 --> 0:26:34.480 much further here, I think a lot of people who 0:26:34.480 --> 0:26:37.040 are watching the show are wondering when we're going to 0:26:37.119 --> 0:26:39.600 see that, because it's such a key part of his personality. 0:26:39.720 --> 0:26:42.639 And this definitely hints that we're on the way there, 0:26:42.680 --> 0:26:46.280 and also that both Mark and Stephen are less comfortable 0:26:46.320 --> 0:26:48.440 with violence than we first thought. 0:26:48.760 --> 0:26:52.719 And then there's a burgeoning alliance kind of a relationship 0:26:52.800 --> 0:26:57.480 at least between the two, if a rocky one, it 0:26:57.520 --> 0:27:00.399 will be interesting to see how they both react to 0:27:01.680 --> 0:27:04.760 the understanding that there are more than them coming back 0:27:04.840 --> 0:27:07.600 three because I don't. I don't think they've grasped that 0:27:07.800 --> 0:27:10.199 quite yet. Although we are left with the with the 0:27:10.280 --> 0:27:15.760 absolutely quite clear fact that there's someone not Stephen, not Mark, 0:27:15.760 --> 0:27:16.440 who is coming through. 0:27:16.520 --> 0:27:18.439 I think you actually touched on something there that's that 0:27:18.520 --> 0:27:22.000 I hadn't necessarily given the show credit for the two 0:27:22.960 --> 0:27:25.679 the two of them being the primary personalities at this 0:27:25.720 --> 0:27:28.480 point as we know, it seemed like a strange choice 0:27:28.520 --> 0:27:30.640 to me. But now that you mentioned that, I guess 0:27:30.640 --> 0:27:32.439 it's given them time to kind of get to know 0:27:32.520 --> 0:27:36.600 each other, build a rapport before potentially there is more conflict. 0:27:36.720 --> 0:27:39.159 So it becomes a situation where it's the two of 0:27:39.200 --> 0:27:43.320 them together understanding whatever is about tappen next in this 0:27:43.359 --> 0:27:45.199 episode and the following three. 0:27:46.040 --> 0:27:48.440 So Mark has just killed one of the tough guys 0:27:48.440 --> 0:27:51.960 that leaves him with one more. Kanshu comes through as 0:27:51.960 --> 0:27:56.320 a voice and is like, torture this guy, but this 0:27:56.359 --> 0:27:59.240 one is really like a kid, like a young kid, 0:28:00.520 --> 0:28:06.280 and a bunch of things happen, and basically the kid, 0:28:06.960 --> 0:28:09.560 uh you know, is being held up by like his 0:28:09.680 --> 0:28:12.720 tie and he cuts the tiny falls to his death. 0:28:13.320 --> 0:28:16.680 Mark argues then with Stephen. He warns Steven, listen, you 0:28:16.720 --> 0:28:19.399 got to stay out of my way. Mark wants to 0:28:19.440 --> 0:28:21.480 ask the other gods for help. Why don't we ask 0:28:21.520 --> 0:28:23.000 the other gods for help? Well, you know, why don't we? 0:28:23.200 --> 0:28:26.040 Why don't we tell them what hero is planning? And 0:28:26.080 --> 0:28:28.560 kan She was like, no, they would, they wouldn't. They 0:28:28.600 --> 0:28:30.480 would just get annoyed. They're tired of me. They don't 0:28:30.520 --> 0:28:33.360 want to listen to me. They if if I'm involved, 0:28:33.400 --> 0:28:36.199 they will just ignore it. But I but actually I 0:28:36.200 --> 0:28:38.160 think I do know a way how we could get 0:28:38.160 --> 0:28:41.640 their attention without you having to go with them. Uh, 0:28:41.680 --> 0:28:43.800 and it's a bad plan, but just let me go. 0:28:44.480 --> 0:28:49.280 So basically, Kanshu causes an eclipse. So immediately the gods 0:28:49.280 --> 0:28:52.440 opened a portal and are like, Mark, come here, you 0:28:52.480 --> 0:28:54.600 need to talk to us, because this is a no no, 0:28:54.800 --> 0:28:57.239 just kind of like displaying to the to humanity that 0:28:57.280 --> 0:29:00.200 we exist. Mark goes to the portal. He finds himself 0:29:00.200 --> 0:29:04.360 inside the Great Pyramid at Giza. Mark meets the avatars 0:29:04.360 --> 0:29:07.240 of the gods. Basically, they're human representatives on Earth who 0:29:07.320 --> 0:29:10.000 the gods will speak through on occasion. One of them 0:29:10.040 --> 0:29:13.000 is Yatsul, who is the representative of hathor goddess of 0:29:13.080 --> 0:29:16.800 music and love and apparently you're left too. We are 0:29:16.880 --> 0:29:20.880 left to surmise an old flame of Kanshu, just like 0:29:21.000 --> 0:29:23.080 left on red after a while. 0:29:24.400 --> 0:29:26.920 Yeah, consh She's like that was a time when Konschu 0:29:26.960 --> 0:29:34.200 used to like my rhythm. He's too upset to like yeah. 0:29:34.800 --> 0:29:39.600 Yeah. The other gods and their representatives include Horace, Isis, 0:29:39.640 --> 0:29:42.960 tefnut Osiris, and Hathor of course, and they take control 0:29:43.000 --> 0:29:45.800 of their avaturus bodies, and they invite Kanschhu to take 0:29:45.840 --> 0:29:49.360 control of Stephen slash Mark and to make his case 0:29:49.560 --> 0:29:52.080 about what's going on and what they should do about 0:29:52.080 --> 0:29:56.560 Ahmed and Arthur Harrow. The gods have long huge to 0:29:56.600 --> 0:29:59.640 a philosophy of non intervention in human affairs, because, as 0:29:59.680 --> 0:30:01.760 they say, the humans to have just moved past them. 0:30:01.760 --> 0:30:04.120 They don't really care about us anymore. So we've kind 0:30:04.120 --> 0:30:07.200 of been, you know, doing things in the background. Kan 0:30:07.280 --> 0:30:11.200 Chu finds this to be weak. A weak course of 0:30:11.200 --> 0:30:14.360 action is like basically cowardly, and he charges Arthur Harrow, 0:30:14.840 --> 0:30:19.240 his former avatar, with attempting to release Omit. Harrow arrives 0:30:19.680 --> 0:30:22.520 through a portal to defend himself. He denies that this 0:30:22.600 --> 0:30:26.240 is what he's doing. Kan Chu then using the Mark 0:30:26.280 --> 0:30:29.240 Spector receiver and Grant body takes a swing at Arthur Harrow, 0:30:29.320 --> 0:30:31.200 He's stopped by one of the gods who's like, listen, 0:30:31.200 --> 0:30:32.760 you can't do that here. There's no violence here. What 0:30:32.800 --> 0:30:37.440 are you doing. Haro then accuses Kanshu of essentially exploiting 0:30:39.200 --> 0:30:42.360 a mentally ill manned Stephen Grant slash Mark Spector, a 0:30:42.400 --> 0:30:48.400 person who is, you know, a quite willing servant, an 0:30:48.400 --> 0:30:52.120 avatar of Kanchu, but also one who is not in 0:30:52.160 --> 0:30:54.680 a place, is not in a place to really give 0:30:54.720 --> 0:30:58.040 their consent to be the avatar of Kanchu. And I 0:30:58.080 --> 0:31:01.760 think Haro, from what we've seen, I think Arthur Harrow 0:31:01.800 --> 0:31:04.120 has something of a point. But of course we don't 0:31:04.160 --> 0:31:05.640 know the whole story yet, but I would say that 0:31:05.720 --> 0:31:08.200 it certainly it looks bad for Kanschhu. He was not 0:31:08.240 --> 0:31:10.880 the most trustworthy of gods. From what we've seen. 0:31:11.040 --> 0:31:14.520 Does Arthur wanna like be killing people minority reports? Yes, 0:31:14.760 --> 0:31:18.040 they can make yes, yes in this moment, in this 0:31:18.120 --> 0:31:21.280 pyramid is the episode? Does he seem like he's making 0:31:21.360 --> 0:31:25.400 lots of good points and legitimately canall Stephen and Mark. Absolutely. 0:31:25.800 --> 0:31:27.880 That's why I came away from this episode. I was 0:31:27.920 --> 0:31:31.040 like one Stephen, Mark not very good at like this 0:31:31.080 --> 0:31:33.080 would have been so easy to just cover up and 0:31:33.080 --> 0:31:36.120 be like, I'm doing fine. This guy's trying to release Alma. 0:31:36.240 --> 0:31:38.720 He has a compass. They were struggling, they were going 0:31:38.720 --> 0:31:41.080 through it, and Harrow came off looking good. So no 0:31:41.200 --> 0:31:43.320 surprise is that the gods were. 0:31:43.240 --> 0:31:47.880 Like yeah, Mark. Mark then admits that to the room, 0:31:48.000 --> 0:31:51.760 to the avatars of the gods, to Kanchu, and to Arthur. 0:31:51.800 --> 0:31:55.320 Harrow's like, listen, uh, I'm going through it a little 0:31:55.320 --> 0:31:59.400 bit and I need help. For sure, I would like 0:31:59.480 --> 0:32:02.560 some help. And that was I felt that that was 0:32:02.600 --> 0:32:06.000 a big step for Mark to take. But he also says, listen, 0:32:06.080 --> 0:32:08.400 that doesn't change the fact that Arthur Harrow wants to 0:32:08.400 --> 0:32:09.680 go on a killing spring. He wants to kill a 0:32:09.720 --> 0:32:11.840 lot of people, and he wants to release Omit to 0:32:11.880 --> 0:32:14.360 do that. He wants to just commit genocide on a 0:32:14.360 --> 0:32:17.680 global scale. And then the gods are likenh we go 0:32:17.720 --> 0:32:20.720 with Harrow and the matters closed. That's it, We're shutting 0:32:20.760 --> 0:32:25.360 it down. They leave, but then Yatzil hangs around clearly 0:32:26.440 --> 0:32:30.520 has some sort of warm feeling for Mark, and she 0:32:30.600 --> 0:32:33.760 points Mark to a clue by which he might find 0:32:33.760 --> 0:32:39.240 Omit's tumb without the scareub the Sarcophagus of Senfu, which 0:32:39.320 --> 0:32:44.360 apparently has recently hit the black market. Leyla and Mark reunite. 0:32:44.480 --> 0:32:46.560 You get a feeling from these scenes that clearly they 0:32:46.600 --> 0:32:48.600 were actually in love. At one point, and Mark tells 0:32:48.600 --> 0:32:53.280 her that he's listen, I'm sorry for hiding how much 0:32:53.280 --> 0:32:55.840 I was struggling from you, and they come to an 0:32:55.920 --> 0:33:00.520 uneasy piece. They then arrive at the home of Mogart, 0:33:00.520 --> 0:33:03.520 the antiquities dealer on the banks of the Nile, where 0:33:03.800 --> 0:33:06.120 they are going to find sin Foo's sarcophagus. Leaylan and 0:33:06.120 --> 0:33:08.560 Mark are posing as this kind of like married couple 0:33:08.600 --> 0:33:11.880 who just want to study this sarcophagus for a second. 0:33:11.880 --> 0:33:13.920 Mogart is like, why are you so interested in sin 0:33:14.000 --> 0:33:16.400 foo sarcophagus? And Mark's like, ADDI yeah, don't worry about it. 0:33:16.440 --> 0:33:18.760 Mark does another bad job, but covering up, He's like. 0:33:18.960 --> 0:33:24.080 Very bad, very very bad Mark. Then, of course, of 0:33:24.120 --> 0:33:27.520 course Mark doesn't know anything about Egyptology, right, and Laylan 0:33:27.640 --> 0:33:31.440 knows some stuff, but not as much as this third 0:33:31.440 --> 0:33:34.600 person who is waiting in the wings, Stephen Grant. And 0:33:35.920 --> 0:33:40.160 Mark is like, I know that I need to let 0:33:40.200 --> 0:33:42.520 Stephen out so he can read these higher glyphs so 0:33:42.560 --> 0:33:44.800 we can understand how to find om It's tomb. But 0:33:44.840 --> 0:33:48.520 I really don't want to do it, but fuck okay, 0:33:48.560 --> 0:33:52.680 I'll do it. Stephen then talks Mark through the puzzle 0:33:52.720 --> 0:33:55.760 and the sarcophagus. Before they can learn anything, Mogart interrupts 0:33:55.800 --> 0:34:00.400 and takes Mark prisoner. Then Harrow interrupts, offering Mogart the 0:34:00.440 --> 0:34:03.520 Scarab in exchange for Layla and Mark, who's surely like 0:34:03.600 --> 0:34:07.800 he's gonna kill soon after. Harrow then vows Wow's Mogart 0:34:07.840 --> 0:34:12.440 with a small display of its power. Mark dons the 0:34:12.480 --> 0:34:14.560 suit and then we get the big fight and it 0:34:14.600 --> 0:34:18.160 is an action packed episode Moonnight and Laylah versus Harrow's 0:34:18.200 --> 0:34:22.600 people and and Mogart's people. Laila we see can really 0:34:22.640 --> 0:34:23.360 handle herself. 0:34:23.520 --> 0:34:27.920 And they are killing people. They killing people. 0:34:28.080 --> 0:34:33.440 They're flat out dropping people to the ground. And we 0:34:33.560 --> 0:34:36.400 also get a great uh We get a great front 0:34:36.520 --> 0:34:41.920 row view seat of how powerful the Moonnight suit is 0:34:42.080 --> 0:34:46.520 and Kanshu's blessing is because he is stopping bullets with 0:34:46.560 --> 0:34:49.440 his cape. He is taking damage that is not killing him. 0:34:50.120 --> 0:34:52.799 Ice comic book Moon Cape, you know, he jumps off 0:34:52.840 --> 0:34:55.960 and you see, it's in the Crescent Moon, and it's 0:34:56.000 --> 0:34:58.960 all very common. This is actually very superhero episode in 0:34:59.000 --> 0:34:59.360 the way. 0:34:59.239 --> 0:35:04.600 That really we get to see how how deadly Moonnight 0:35:04.760 --> 0:35:08.360 is with those moon orangs, possibly crafted by Clint Barton 0:35:08.440 --> 0:35:12.840 in the past. Stephen Grant watching all of this from 0:35:12.920 --> 0:35:16.960 somewhere else, you know, inside the consciousness of Mark is 0:35:17.000 --> 0:35:21.040 appalled and the violence. Yeah, he's appalled at the violence 0:35:21.040 --> 0:35:23.840 that Specter is unleashing. And he manages to seize control 0:35:23.880 --> 0:35:25.759 of the body, and all of a sudden, the suit 0:35:25.920 --> 0:35:29.320 morphs into the Mister Knight variety. He immediately gets impaled 0:35:29.320 --> 0:35:32.480 by a spear and he's like, okay, you know what, Mark, 0:35:32.520 --> 0:35:35.920 you take it? Yeah, I got about you take it. 0:35:36.160 --> 0:35:39.120 And so Mark is just like back in the body 0:35:39.200 --> 0:35:43.000 and is immediately like double speared by by some of 0:35:43.080 --> 0:35:46.279 Morgart's men. Meanwhile, Layla is at the Sarcophagus and she's 0:35:46.280 --> 0:35:50.960 fighting one of Margo's henche's, and we watch as Layla 0:35:51.080 --> 0:35:52.880 takes off her necklace, which we think is just like 0:35:52.920 --> 0:35:55.800 a stylish and striking statement piece, but no, it's actually 0:35:55.840 --> 0:35:58.520 like a double edged like dagger, too dagger than street. 0:35:58.640 --> 0:36:02.160 She straight up murders a sorry back and then runs 0:36:02.200 --> 0:36:04.759 to Mark's rescue, but gets the wind knocked out of 0:36:04.800 --> 0:36:08.320 her by Margot and Mark needing to run to her rescue, 0:36:08.320 --> 0:36:10.560 then like just basically snaps all the spears out of 0:36:10.560 --> 0:36:14.080 his body, which is a really impressive display of healing factor. 0:36:14.520 --> 0:36:19.960 He then kills Margot with a moon orang. Layla grabs 0:36:20.000 --> 0:36:22.399 the whatever was in Sanfu's tomb, which we've later learned 0:36:22.440 --> 0:36:25.080 as a map, and they and they go off to 0:36:25.360 --> 0:36:28.080 find out. In the car, Laila and Mark are talking 0:36:28.120 --> 0:36:30.840 about what Harrow had said about Mark and all the 0:36:30.880 --> 0:36:33.359 things he had revealed about how Mark was mentally ill 0:36:33.400 --> 0:36:35.319 and how he's struggling, although they don't quite you know, 0:36:35.440 --> 0:36:38.840 name it as anything. And she's upset that. She's like, 0:36:38.920 --> 0:36:41.440 you know, every time I find out something about you, 0:36:41.520 --> 0:36:43.520 it's like you're a whole new other person. It's like 0:36:43.560 --> 0:36:46.600 I don't know you at all. And Mark, kind of 0:36:46.640 --> 0:36:49.319 surprisingly but also refreshingly, he's like, you're right, you don't 0:36:49.400 --> 0:36:53.520 know me. Now. Don't let Harrow, you know, get in 0:36:53.560 --> 0:36:56.160 between us. Don't let him poison us against each other, 0:36:56.239 --> 0:36:59.719 because we need to stay strong right now. And after 0:36:59.719 --> 0:37:02.680 a while they arrive at a place in the desert 0:37:02.719 --> 0:37:04.960 where they can read this map, which turns out to 0:37:04.960 --> 0:37:09.360 be a star map. They have to call Stephen again 0:37:09.440 --> 0:37:12.520 because he's the only one that can put all these 0:37:12.560 --> 0:37:14.960 pieces together in the way that they need to go together. 0:37:15.040 --> 0:37:17.480 Mark is annoyed again, but he knows it's right. Stephen 0:37:17.520 --> 0:37:20.200 takes over, and what I think is one of the 0:37:20.239 --> 0:37:23.360 best single moments of acting, like in a Disney plus 0:37:23.400 --> 0:37:28.319 Marvel show, is Oscar Isaac looking into his reflection as 0:37:28.360 --> 0:37:33.000 Mark Spector and then wordlessly transforming into Stephen Grant with 0:37:33.120 --> 0:37:36.240 just like a relaxation of his face. It was really 0:37:36.280 --> 0:37:40.360 really cool. Stephen then swings into action. He's really excited 0:37:40.360 --> 0:37:42.600 by all this. He assembles the map while man explaining 0:37:42.680 --> 0:37:47.000 ancient Egyptian navigation techniques. But apparently, here's the thing. The 0:37:47.000 --> 0:37:49.719 map was created thousands of years ago. The stars have 0:37:49.880 --> 0:37:53.360 moved since then, so they need to know the actual 0:37:53.480 --> 0:37:55.719 date of when this map was created in order for 0:37:55.760 --> 0:37:58.319 them to figure out where Amus tomb is. Kanshu comes 0:37:58.320 --> 0:38:00.000 back Conch. She's like, oh, you know what, I remember 0:38:00.200 --> 0:38:03.680 the night that this was created. Really well, give me 0:38:03.719 --> 0:38:06.279 a hand, Stephen, do do what I do. Let's turn 0:38:06.520 --> 0:38:09.319 the stars back to the positions they were thousands of 0:38:09.400 --> 0:38:11.400 years ago on the night this map was created. So 0:38:11.440 --> 0:38:14.840 they do so, and people all around the world, we 0:38:14.880 --> 0:38:17.239 would assume, although we only see people in Egypt, but 0:38:17.239 --> 0:38:19.480 we would assume all around the world people would see 0:38:19.880 --> 0:38:25.239 the sky just warping with trails of stars as the 0:38:25.320 --> 0:38:29.520 sky gets rewound back centuries and centuries and centuries and centuries. 0:38:30.640 --> 0:38:33.000 And of course we understand that the gods had already 0:38:33.040 --> 0:38:37.560 warned Kanshu about the eclipse, and so they as as 0:38:37.560 --> 0:38:40.240 soon as they get wind of this, which is quite quickly, 0:38:40.280 --> 0:38:43.000 they are going to lock Kanchu up. Yeah, and Kanhu's like, 0:38:43.000 --> 0:38:44.960 listen when that happens, Mark, I need you to free me. 0:38:45.640 --> 0:38:47.080 So okay, They're gonna lock me up, and then I 0:38:47.080 --> 0:38:49.360 need you to free me. The god's an imprisoned Conshu 0:38:49.440 --> 0:38:52.400 in a que country statue. They just like suck his energy. 0:38:52.520 --> 0:38:56.440 It was there already there are and and his energy 0:38:56.480 --> 0:38:59.120 goes into it. Stephen collapses or Mark or whoever he 0:38:59.200 --> 0:39:01.920 is in that moment, Jake Blockley who knows, and the 0:39:01.960 --> 0:39:06.680 gods avatars show Harrow the Conshu statue and Haro's like, hey, 0:39:06.760 --> 0:39:08.279 can I be alone to just kind of like talk 0:39:08.320 --> 0:39:10.799 shit to this. He can hear me in there, right, 0:39:10.880 --> 0:39:12.279 and they're like, yeah, we think so He's like, all right, 0:39:12.400 --> 0:39:13.960 let's just give me a little privacy so I can 0:39:13.960 --> 0:39:18.080 talk shit to this to Kanchu Haro, it's quite clear 0:39:18.160 --> 0:39:21.200 from the things he says now carries a lot of 0:39:21.239 --> 0:39:24.720 animosity and probably rightly so, from his time as Conchu's avatar. 0:39:26.000 --> 0:39:28.480 And then he essentially says, listen, what I'm gonna do 0:39:29.520 --> 0:39:32.440 with AMA's help, I e Mass murder on a global scale. 0:39:33.000 --> 0:39:35.600 It's really it's really your fault. It's your fault, one 0:39:35.640 --> 0:39:39.200 hundred percent, your fault for the way that you treated 0:39:39.239 --> 0:39:41.040 me as your avatar and for the things I had 0:39:41.040 --> 0:39:43.200 to do as your avatar. And we are onto episode 0:39:43.280 --> 0:39:47.560 four next week. Your thoughts on this on this episode, Rosie. 0:39:47.200 --> 0:39:49.359 There's lots of stuff to dig into here. I mean, 0:39:49.960 --> 0:39:52.600 this introduces us. One of the things I think is 0:39:52.640 --> 0:39:56.360 really interesting is this introduces us to like the Egyptian gods. 0:39:56.640 --> 0:40:00.279 And obviously they are real gods from real history, but 0:40:00.320 --> 0:40:02.960 in Marvel, those gods all exist. So it's like the 0:40:03.040 --> 0:40:05.440 Heliopolitans is what they call them. That's basically like a 0:40:05.440 --> 0:40:08.680 god supergroup. So I thought that was really interesting. A 0:40:08.719 --> 0:40:11.800 lot of connections to Thor. That's where Isis and Osiris 0:40:12.239 --> 0:40:15.279 all debuted in nineteen seventy five Store two three nine. Like, 0:40:15.760 --> 0:40:18.480 I thought that was really interesting because I wonder if 0:40:18.480 --> 0:40:20.960 we're gonna ever get to the space of having like 0:40:21.000 --> 0:40:24.440 an ancient Egyptian as guardian kind of space in the 0:40:24.480 --> 0:40:27.680 Marvel universe. We know that they mentioned are the members 0:40:27.680 --> 0:40:30.440 in Black Panther, you know they mentioned bast so I 0:40:30.480 --> 0:40:33.200 thought that was really cool. I like anything that's like 0:40:33.239 --> 0:40:36.879 cosmic or mythological. I think the Jake Lockley was it him? 0:40:37.040 --> 0:40:39.600 Was it not? Is there another altar coming through? That's 0:40:39.640 --> 0:40:44.480 the big theory piece. I also think that this is 0:40:44.520 --> 0:40:47.160 a really big episode for Leila, who is definitely like 0:40:47.239 --> 0:40:51.040 huge one of our favorite characters. May Klamaui is just 0:40:51.080 --> 0:40:53.800 so great. She has this real evy from the Mummy energy. 0:40:53.880 --> 0:40:56.960 She's very like cheeky, and she turns up in Egypt 0:40:57.080 --> 0:40:59.759 to help Mark even though he's mad, disrespectful, he wanted 0:40:59.800 --> 0:41:01.800 to get divorce. He didn't tell her. He has like 0:41:01.840 --> 0:41:04.960 a secondary personality like Steven's kind of winning creepy to her, 0:41:05.160 --> 0:41:06.759 but she was just there. She was like, pow, I 0:41:06.760 --> 0:41:08.719 don't care I'm going to Egypt. I'm gonna help you 0:41:08.760 --> 0:41:11.920 out and in this so we really learn in this 0:41:12.000 --> 0:41:16.000 episode that they're definitely leaning into the scarlet scarab thing. 0:41:16.000 --> 0:41:18.799 If you actually watch the trailers, there's a photo of 0:41:18.920 --> 0:41:21.160 Layla and her dad and next to it is a 0:41:21.200 --> 0:41:24.400 scarlet piece of cloth with a scarab onnet. So I 0:41:24.440 --> 0:41:28.000 really think we're getting that Marlene mixed with this potential 0:41:28.080 --> 0:41:33.439 connection that she may have to the Scarab. I'm I'm 0:41:33.480 --> 0:41:35.600 really interested to see where things go, because this is 0:41:35.640 --> 0:41:38.960 another show like Hawkeye Wear. For example, Anton Mogart, who 0:41:38.960 --> 0:41:41.440 you mentioned, is this in this is this kind of 0:41:41.520 --> 0:41:45.680 art dealer, black market dodgy guy. He's been to madrapor 0:41:45.760 --> 0:41:48.480 with Leila. That's a big drop. In the comics, he 0:41:48.600 --> 0:41:51.680 is a Moonnight villain. He debuted in Moonnight number three 0:41:52.160 --> 0:41:54.680 and he was called Midnight Man Midnight Man, And so 0:41:55.520 --> 0:41:57.600 did he really die in this episode or are we 0:41:57.640 --> 0:42:00.440 going to see him come back again and kind of 0:42:00.520 --> 0:42:03.200 be a more primary antagonist. It looked like he didn't 0:42:03.200 --> 0:42:05.319 do very well, but in the comics he gets like 0:42:05.400 --> 0:42:07.800 disfigured and then comes back as a kind of masked 0:42:07.840 --> 0:42:11.560 hero who works alongside the Number one Missing character from 0:42:11.560 --> 0:42:15.040 this series likely a good thing. Ral Bushman, who is 0:42:15.080 --> 0:42:20.160 like a was Moonnight's partner on the Fateful Trip where 0:42:20.160 --> 0:42:23.319 he gained his powers. That's a very problematic character, so 0:42:23.360 --> 0:42:25.359 if they reimagined, it would have to be kind of 0:42:25.400 --> 0:42:30.120 like a Umbaku Star reimagining, where you take a character 0:42:30.120 --> 0:42:33.400 that has really problematic elements and make something really special. 0:42:34.040 --> 0:42:36.759 The fact that Mogart was there makes me think that 0:42:36.840 --> 0:42:42.680 we might have some kind of Bushman illusion or situation 0:42:43.480 --> 0:42:46.000 as we go forward, because also in this episode, Harrow 0:42:46.080 --> 0:42:52.160 hints at what happened to Laila's dad on this archaeological quest, 0:42:52.239 --> 0:42:56.680 and we also know that in Moonnight's origin, as you've 0:42:56.719 --> 0:43:01.200 mentioned before, he was part of a kind of terrible 0:43:01.239 --> 0:43:04.120 tragedy in the desert, and we know that in this 0:43:04.280 --> 0:43:08.440 show Mark Spector was accused of murdering an archaeologist. So 0:43:08.680 --> 0:43:10.640 I think we can put together some clears that there's 0:43:10.640 --> 0:43:13.719 going to be a tragic situation going on, and. 0:43:13.680 --> 0:43:16.959 We should mention that the actor Gaspard Uliel, who played 0:43:16.960 --> 0:43:21.480 Anton Morgart, passed away this January in a skiing accident. 0:43:23.280 --> 0:43:27.880 The mage poor name drop was interesting because clearly, you 0:43:27.880 --> 0:43:33.920 know Madrapoor is a city of a vast illegal interests, 0:43:33.960 --> 0:43:36.719 so it would make sense that stolen antiquities moved through there, 0:43:38.440 --> 0:43:41.200 and of course it's a place that has strong ties 0:43:41.239 --> 0:43:41.799 to the X Men. 0:43:42.000 --> 0:43:44.680 Yeah, that's the wildest thing to me. Like every time 0:43:44.760 --> 0:43:47.880 they say, I know they established it, Sharon Carr, powerbroker, 0:43:48.239 --> 0:43:50.560 that's probably where they're going. But I always think of 0:43:50.600 --> 0:43:52.879 the X Men of Wolverine, of Patch. You know, it's 0:43:52.920 --> 0:43:54.800 so exciting every time I hear them say it. 0:43:55.400 --> 0:43:58.719 Yeah, so just just for people who don't know, in uh, 0:43:59.120 --> 0:44:01.400 I think it's supposed to In like early nineties, late eighties, 0:44:01.640 --> 0:44:05.799 Wolverine got his own solo series. And how this guy 0:44:06.160 --> 0:44:07.920 managed to be in the X Men and then do 0:44:08.000 --> 0:44:10.240 all the adventures he did on his own while traveling 0:44:10.520 --> 0:44:13.120 like coast to coast and internationally, I don't know. But 0:44:13.239 --> 0:44:15.279 this guy was a very busy guy, and he spent 0:44:15.320 --> 0:44:20.080 a lot of time living in Madopoor under this persona 0:44:20.200 --> 0:44:25.320 of Patch who is this kind of Rapscallion bar Denizen 0:44:25.560 --> 0:44:31.960 later club owner who rubbed elbows with pirates and various gangsters, 0:44:32.080 --> 0:44:36.879 but was a good guy. And you know, honestly, most 0:44:36.960 --> 0:44:41.279 of Wolverine is set there. So whenever magicpoor comes up, 0:44:41.320 --> 0:44:43.440 I'm thinking, oh gosh, here comes the x Menter. 0:44:43.400 --> 0:44:45.680 And we in Falcon and the Winter Soldier. They even 0:44:45.760 --> 0:44:48.080 had the Princess Bar, which is where Patch would always 0:44:48.080 --> 0:44:51.160 hang out, So like they want us to make those connections. 0:44:51.600 --> 0:44:53.920 And I also saw put a really cool note that 0:44:53.920 --> 0:44:55.960 I wouldn't really have thought of, which is like post 0:44:56.040 --> 0:45:00.200 Shang Chi, Jai Ling is running the ten Ring and 0:45:00.320 --> 0:45:03.040 that's obviously going to be deeply connected to Madripal. Now 0:45:03.200 --> 0:45:06.560 that Sharon Kaw and Leila, I'm like, yeah, probably, But 0:45:06.719 --> 0:45:08.880 Jai Ling and Leila, I'm like, I would like to 0:45:08.960 --> 0:45:12.400 see that, Like that's a relationship I want to know about. Like, 0:45:12.920 --> 0:45:15.320 so I think they this is an episode where it 0:45:15.440 --> 0:45:18.759 seems like it's just this action packmom superhero, but it 0:45:18.920 --> 0:45:21.640 seems like they're they're spreading a lot of seeds that 0:45:21.760 --> 0:45:24.400 could kind of sprout into different things, whether they're in 0:45:24.480 --> 0:45:26.120 this show or in The Great or MCU. 0:45:26.719 --> 0:45:29.400 Yeah, I agree. And I can't help but notice that 0:45:29.520 --> 0:45:35.279 the episode starts with Mark Spector losing time, passing out, 0:45:35.840 --> 0:45:39.960 losing time, waking up in a different place, not knowing 0:45:40.040 --> 0:45:41.799 how he got there. We can only assume that someone 0:45:41.840 --> 0:45:43.720 else was in control of the body, but not Stephen, 0:45:43.760 --> 0:45:45.759 because Steven's not talking about it, and Steven doesn't seem 0:45:45.800 --> 0:45:48.239 to know what happened either. And here at the end 0:45:48.280 --> 0:45:52.520 of this we have Stephen, who was in control at 0:45:52.520 --> 0:45:58.680 the time, passing out after Conshou's energy is trapped in 0:45:58.960 --> 0:46:03.759 the statue. I wonder, when Mark slash Stephen wake up 0:46:04.680 --> 0:46:07.560 where we are? Like where we are? Is that a 0:46:07.680 --> 0:46:14.040 moment when Jake or whoever the other personality is comes through. 0:46:15.800 --> 0:46:19.640 But I think I would expect that we're going to 0:46:20.280 --> 0:46:22.720 a new kind of place in the next episode. 0:46:22.719 --> 0:46:25.080 I think so too, especially if you think about how 0:46:25.880 --> 0:46:28.680 prominent the museum was in the first episode, and then 0:46:28.760 --> 0:46:31.560 in the second episode, has Stephen got closer to Mark, 0:46:31.600 --> 0:46:34.600 the museum was suddenly he was fired, he suddenly couldn't 0:46:34.600 --> 0:46:37.520 be there anymore. And in this episode when he's embracing Mark, 0:46:37.560 --> 0:46:41.040 he's in Egypt. So the idea of another altar, another personality, 0:46:41.080 --> 0:46:44.400 another side of himself coming out, it makes sense that 0:46:44.560 --> 0:46:46.840 that would potentially lead us to a different space. 0:46:47.719 --> 0:46:50.440 And it's also interesting to me, and who knows if 0:46:50.480 --> 0:46:55.759 this means anything, but when this unknown personality came through, 0:46:55.960 --> 0:46:59.320 it was when to your point one, it kind of 0:46:59.440 --> 0:47:06.839 hints that maybe certainly Mark is maybe less has less 0:47:06.840 --> 0:47:10.040 of an affinity for violence than we were expecting, which 0:47:10.080 --> 0:47:13.360 would And it was also moments where it seemed like 0:47:15.000 --> 0:47:17.319 the body of Steven slash Mark was in its most 0:47:17.600 --> 0:47:24.320 perilous state, which would kind of it suggests maybe that 0:47:24.520 --> 0:47:30.360 whoever the other personality is, that they are somehow letting 0:47:30.920 --> 0:47:34.640 Stephen and Mark run around and do things until like 0:47:34.760 --> 0:47:38.880 there's an emergency and they need to take control. So 0:47:39.280 --> 0:47:42.080 it would suggest that whoever that other personality is, they 0:47:42.160 --> 0:47:48.680 are moving pieces around in a more direct way than 0:47:48.800 --> 0:47:51.000 either Stephen or Mark and have more of a full 0:47:51.080 --> 0:47:52.600 picture maybe than Steven or Mark. 0:47:52.760 --> 0:47:55.800 Yeah, it definitely there is a hint here, and for 0:47:55.880 --> 0:47:58.000 the beginning, I thought from the beginning, I thought it 0:47:58.080 --> 0:48:00.279 was quntrue, but we know that that's not the case now. 0:48:00.520 --> 0:48:02.680 And also something else interesting to think about is like 0:48:02.760 --> 0:48:05.680 who is keeping them alive? Who is giving them the power? 0:48:05.760 --> 0:48:09.440 If Konshu has been trapped in the comics, Mark being 0:48:09.480 --> 0:48:12.960 separated from Konshu usually leads to him losing his powers 0:48:13.040 --> 0:48:15.759 or having to regain them in a different way by 0:48:15.800 --> 0:48:18.800 meeting the priests of Konshu by gaining an artifact. So 0:48:18.960 --> 0:48:21.879 I think that the idea that there may be more 0:48:21.960 --> 0:48:24.920 puppet master alter or a different person who is more 0:48:25.000 --> 0:48:27.520 in control and is allowing them to kind of have 0:48:27.680 --> 0:48:30.160 their fun where they can until it becomes dangerous would 0:48:30.200 --> 0:48:30.959 make a lot of sense. 0:48:31.280 --> 0:48:34.359 When we're back, we'll be discussing fantasy and science fiction 0:48:35.600 --> 0:48:52.120 and interviewing the great author Nicola Griffith. Welcome to the 0:48:52.160 --> 0:48:56.040 air lock. This podcast is coming out on Friday, April fifteenth, 0:48:56.239 --> 0:48:59.200 and it is the same day that the latest Fantastic 0:48:59.280 --> 0:49:04.320 Beasts movie is releasing in theaters. We won't be covering 0:49:04.360 --> 0:49:08.080 that just because you know, I have covered a lot 0:49:08.160 --> 0:49:12.799 of JK Rowling content over the course of my career, 0:49:12.880 --> 0:49:15.480 and I've enjoyed it. But I just don't think that 0:49:15.719 --> 0:49:19.960 I can I can possibly give her money anymore or 0:49:20.560 --> 0:49:23.120 take part in any kind of situation that would potentially 0:49:23.200 --> 0:49:28.000 give her money, particularly with the kind of climate in 0:49:28.120 --> 0:49:34.320 society right now towards trans people and the increasing peril 0:49:34.520 --> 0:49:40.080 and aggressive language that the lgbt q AI community writ 0:49:40.239 --> 0:49:43.239 large is being faced with. So we wanted to take 0:49:43.360 --> 0:49:47.440 this opportunity to just talk about other authors, other creatives 0:49:48.000 --> 0:49:51.640 in the sci fi fantasy space, with a focus on 0:49:53.480 --> 0:49:57.080 queer creators, creators of color, just like a more diverse 0:49:57.120 --> 0:49:59.840 set of sci fi and fantasy creators. That's what we 0:50:00.000 --> 0:50:02.800 I wanted to do. So with that, gosh, do you 0:50:02.840 --> 0:50:06.040 have any thoughts on the New Fantastic Beast movie and JK. 0:50:06.239 --> 0:50:08.759 Rowling in general and this whole situation that we find 0:50:08.800 --> 0:50:09.320 ourselves in. 0:50:09.800 --> 0:50:12.560 Yes, I do have. I do have thoughts about it. 0:50:12.680 --> 0:50:14.920 I am exactly on the same page as you. You know, 0:50:15.040 --> 0:50:18.759 this is something that was a large part of my childhood. 0:50:18.800 --> 0:50:21.080 I am the age that I was in school and 0:50:21.360 --> 0:50:24.840 was basically analogous ages to the kids in the books. 0:50:24.880 --> 0:50:27.040 It was a book series that meant a lot to me. 0:50:27.120 --> 0:50:29.120 I worked in a bookshop so I would be able 0:50:29.239 --> 0:50:31.520 to go to the opening nights when I was still 0:50:31.560 --> 0:50:35.120 not legally even old enough to really work. It was 0:50:35.160 --> 0:50:36.719 something that meant a lot to me. But it's something 0:50:36.800 --> 0:50:38.840 that I now can no longer enjoy. It's something I 0:50:38.960 --> 0:50:42.319 used to cover. It's part of what my knowledge base 0:50:42.440 --> 0:50:44.080 is the same as you. That was part of my career, 0:50:44.280 --> 0:50:46.480 and there's just you know what, there's better stories out 0:50:46.520 --> 0:50:50.400 there told by people who aren't actively harming communities that 0:50:50.480 --> 0:50:52.359 I love and care about, and we're going to talk 0:50:52.400 --> 0:50:53.840 about them, and it's going to be amazing, and I 0:50:53.920 --> 0:50:56.799 feel incredibly lucky to share this space with you, someone 0:50:56.840 --> 0:50:59.520 who cares about this stuff and understands exactly why we're 0:50:59.640 --> 0:51:00.879 folks on something else. 0:51:01.440 --> 0:51:05.360 I just think it's terribly alarming, right, it's alarming. This 0:51:05.560 --> 0:51:08.239 is not to say that it was not dangerous and 0:51:09.520 --> 0:51:13.920 potentially toxic, harmful rhetoric previously, but I think like the 0:51:14.000 --> 0:51:18.279 events of like the last six months even just make 0:51:18.360 --> 0:51:22.880 it feel much more pressing and uh and something that 0:51:23.239 --> 0:51:25.440 kind of like actively needs to be pushed back against. 0:51:25.560 --> 0:51:28.399 I think the situation is that the reason that it's 0:51:28.640 --> 0:51:32.279 always been so dangerous is that having prominent figures with 0:51:32.440 --> 0:51:35.920 huge followings who are seen as respectable or liberal or 0:51:36.280 --> 0:51:40.719 whatever else saying these things are why these legislations can 0:51:40.760 --> 0:51:42.719 be brought in. It's why they have the support, it's 0:51:42.760 --> 0:51:46.560 why people know these terminologies. It's so it has an 0:51:46.640 --> 0:51:50.880 active effect that is negative and dangerous and sometimes fatal. 0:51:51.400 --> 0:51:54.000 And I absolutely agree with you, it's it's it's time 0:51:54.080 --> 0:51:56.280 to push back on it, and it's time to celebrate 0:51:56.360 --> 0:52:00.560 other stuff that lifts people up and and open spaces 0:52:00.600 --> 0:52:03.040 for people and changes people's lives in a positive way 0:52:03.120 --> 0:52:04.480 rather than a dangerous one. 0:52:04.840 --> 0:52:07.279 In the realm of books. I love that turns out 0:52:07.320 --> 0:52:09.759 that the author was a shithead. Enders Game. Enders Game 0:52:09.880 --> 0:52:11.200 is like one of was one of the things I 0:52:11.280 --> 0:52:15.800 was thinking about. That is a friend's older brother like 0:52:16.000 --> 0:52:20.160 recommended it to me, and it like crushed me. Like 0:52:20.280 --> 0:52:23.080 I was sobbing at the end of that book. And 0:52:23.160 --> 0:52:27.040 then it became quite clear like in not recent years, 0:52:27.080 --> 0:52:28.600 but I would say in the last like eight years 0:52:28.680 --> 0:52:30.919 or so, that Orson Scott Card had some really terrible views, 0:52:30.960 --> 0:52:36.520 particularly on the issues of homosexuality and LGBTQAI issues, and 0:52:36.600 --> 0:52:38.920 it just, man, I just had to drop that. I 0:52:39.080 --> 0:52:43.160 just had to drop that series that not not interact 0:52:43.200 --> 0:52:45.799 with any Orson Scott Card content anymore. And I gotta 0:52:45.800 --> 0:52:47.160 say you, I love Enders Game. I think it's a 0:52:47.160 --> 0:52:52.600 great book still because none of that toxic ideas that 0:52:52.680 --> 0:52:55.160 he has are you know, it's been a number of 0:52:55.239 --> 0:52:57.040 years since I read it, but it seemed present in 0:52:57.120 --> 0:52:57.879 the book at the time. 0:52:58.480 --> 0:53:02.040 I will say, just he calls if I'm not mistaken, 0:53:02.160 --> 0:53:04.040 like the aliens in that are. 0:53:04.000 --> 0:53:04.960 Called the buggers. 0:53:05.080 --> 0:53:08.880 Yeah, buggers. Bugger is like slang for gay sex in England, 0:53:09.560 --> 0:53:12.359 so he really he built well, it's the same mine. 0:53:12.520 --> 0:53:14.480 Mine was like, this is so funny because you don't 0:53:14.520 --> 0:53:16.120 really think of him as like a sci fi author. 0:53:16.160 --> 0:53:18.120 But one of the first books that I ever really 0:53:18.200 --> 0:53:20.560 remember that was like deep when this was when I 0:53:20.640 --> 0:53:22.759 was a little little kid, when I was deep into 0:53:23.160 --> 0:53:24.960 that felt that you were really going into space is 0:53:25.440 --> 0:53:28.000 Charlie and the Great Glass Elevator, which is the sequel 0:53:28.080 --> 0:53:30.320 to Charlie and the Chocolate Factory by Rodahl, who it 0:53:30.360 --> 0:53:33.880 turns out, is like a massive anti semi But like 0:53:34.040 --> 0:53:36.440 when I was a kid, I remember that book. He 0:53:36.760 --> 0:53:40.520 goes up in the elevator right with his family and 0:53:40.680 --> 0:53:42.560 they go on the US they end up on a 0:53:42.600 --> 0:53:45.000 space station, and that was one of the first interactions 0:53:45.000 --> 0:53:47.480 I had with sci fi. But again, you learn these 0:53:47.560 --> 0:53:49.640 things and then you're like, well, let me find someone else. 0:53:49.719 --> 0:53:52.200 And luckily there are like a ton of amazing creators 0:53:52.239 --> 0:53:54.319 who are who are doing the opposite, who are using 0:53:54.520 --> 0:53:56.480 doing the thing that people have always done with sci fi, 0:53:56.520 --> 0:53:59.680 which is and fantasy, which is to make analogous stories 0:53:59.680 --> 0:54:03.719 about real wild depression and find like the important way 0:54:03.800 --> 0:54:04.640 to kind of talk about it. 0:54:05.160 --> 0:54:09.160 My personal philosophy is when things like this occur, and 0:54:09.280 --> 0:54:18.320 particularly with particular UH focus on on Jk's work in 0:54:18.400 --> 0:54:21.520 the Harry Potter series, which which is again a story 0:54:21.640 --> 0:54:24.239 series of series of books that I really love and 0:54:24.640 --> 0:54:28.480 UH and through which I found a community of like 0:54:28.560 --> 0:54:33.920 minded people whose company and relationships I still enjoy. My 0:54:34.400 --> 0:54:38.000 personal philosophy is like, Okay, no more money, I'm not 0:54:38.239 --> 0:54:41.840 gonna support this. I'm not going to be buying the 0:54:42.719 --> 0:54:46.120 legacy of Hogwarts game, I'm not gonna be covering the stuff. 0:54:46.480 --> 0:54:49.440 But when it comes to like what happens? Can I 0:54:49.520 --> 0:54:53.960 reread the books that one is more, I kind of 0:54:54.040 --> 0:55:00.120 feel like seizing these works from their author is like 0:55:00.200 --> 0:55:03.000 a kind of like a revolution For me. It feels 0:55:03.080 --> 0:55:06.239 like a revolutionary act of like, fuck you, you don't 0:55:06.280 --> 0:55:08.840 own this anymore, in the sense that like the people 0:55:09.000 --> 0:55:12.560 whose lives were touched by this and who found other 0:55:12.680 --> 0:55:17.120 connections through these stories, they should not now have to 0:55:17.280 --> 0:55:21.080 vacate this space because it turns out are bad. What 0:55:21.200 --> 0:55:24.879 should happen is they should then seize this space from 0:55:25.000 --> 0:55:29.840 you and continue in their cultural relationships, the bonds that 0:55:29.920 --> 0:55:32.399 they have with the communities they've created, and they should 0:55:32.440 --> 0:55:34.000 just like seize this story from me. So that's like 0:55:34.080 --> 0:55:37.360 how I feel about it when it comes like, you know, 0:55:37.440 --> 0:55:40.000 there are chapters still in Harry Potter that I like 0:55:40.120 --> 0:55:42.480 to read, but I just will never give her money anymore. 0:55:42.640 --> 0:55:43.160 I just can't. 0:55:43.400 --> 0:55:45.160 I think there's a lot of like power in that, 0:55:45.280 --> 0:55:47.560 and a lot also a lot of those conversations, Like 0:55:47.680 --> 0:55:51.120 there's an amazing non binary cartoonist that we were talking about, 0:55:51.160 --> 0:55:55.919 Maya Cababe who made Harry Potter fansy and called Harry 0:55:55.960 --> 0:55:58.560 Potter and the problematic author that was all about that 0:55:58.840 --> 0:56:03.040 kind of journey, and I think it's really important to 0:56:03.160 --> 0:56:06.600 have those conversations and to kind of talk about what 0:56:06.760 --> 0:56:10.160 it means like to separate that from the eyes. I mean, 0:56:10.239 --> 0:56:13.680 I personally don't get any joy out of rereading them anymore, 0:56:13.800 --> 0:56:16.800 but I used to. There was there was chapters in 0:56:16.880 --> 0:56:18.600 Harry Potter that that was the only way I could 0:56:18.640 --> 0:56:20.200 go to sleep as a kid, was to read the 0:56:20.280 --> 0:56:22.680 chapter where he's on the night bus and he's got 0:56:22.719 --> 0:56:24.880 the hot chocolate and the hot water bottle. Yeah, and 0:56:24.960 --> 0:56:26.799 he's on his way. You know, that was And it's 0:56:26.880 --> 0:56:30.600 it's sad to lose those things, but that's the power 0:56:30.640 --> 0:56:33.719 of the singular author. Right, Yeah, that's power of it. 0:56:34.880 --> 0:56:37.480 Let's move on to just what we're reading and any 0:56:37.640 --> 0:56:41.399 kind of stories, authors, wonderful tales, creators that we want 0:56:41.440 --> 0:56:43.800 to lift up right now. Do you have any recommendations? 0:56:44.040 --> 0:56:46.760 Yeah, I talk a lot. There's a there's a brilliant 0:56:46.960 --> 0:56:49.200 book that I read a lot of YA books that 0:56:49.960 --> 0:56:52.319 which I guess comes from that legacy of these books 0:56:52.360 --> 0:56:54.680 that we're talking about that we really enjoy. There's a 0:56:54.719 --> 0:56:56.520 book I read that I sort of haven't forgotten about 0:56:56.560 --> 0:56:59.640 that I've reread a couple of times called Cemetry Boys 0:56:59.680 --> 0:57:04.440 by A Thomas's trans author trans lead character, and it 0:57:04.600 --> 0:57:08.640 is just so wonderful. It's about a boy called Yadril 0:57:09.440 --> 0:57:13.520 who wants to become a Bruha and tries to summon 0:57:14.760 --> 0:57:20.560 a spirit to prove it, but ends up freeing a 0:57:20.720 --> 0:57:24.200 different spirit and then it becomes this kind of really 0:57:24.320 --> 0:57:30.560 dynamic exploration of love and friendship and legacy. And I 0:57:30.760 --> 0:57:33.880 just that book is so wonderful and it's very much 0:57:33.960 --> 0:57:37.080 to me like the kind of power of when somebody 0:57:37.120 --> 0:57:40.720 gets to tell a story that represents who they are 0:57:41.120 --> 0:57:44.640 but is also just absolutely unburdened and it's just allowed 0:57:44.680 --> 0:57:47.760 to be completely free and adventurous and fantastical. I think 0:57:47.840 --> 0:57:52.640 that's kind of the power ironically that actually a lot 0:57:52.680 --> 0:57:55.280 of Harry Potter and stuff was missing because Harry Potter 0:57:55.440 --> 0:57:57.440 is like it takes from a lot of different stories, 0:57:57.480 --> 0:58:00.480 but those stories were often the same stories being told 0:58:00.520 --> 0:58:04.120 by the same people. So symmetry boys is I always 0:58:04.160 --> 0:58:06.200 tell everyone just go and buy that book. It's it's 0:58:06.280 --> 0:58:06.680 so good. 0:58:07.320 --> 0:58:10.960 One book that I read recently that I just absolutely 0:58:11.040 --> 0:58:14.360 love is The Space Between Worlds by Makaia Johnson. I 0:58:14.360 --> 0:58:18.880 think it's her debut novel, and it is a really 0:58:19.040 --> 0:58:24.400 wonderful here's that word again, multiverse story, high concept in 0:58:24.560 --> 0:58:29.640 which people from let's just call it like Earth one 0:58:30.800 --> 0:58:38.840 travel to various closely related dimensions in order to see, Oh, 0:58:38.920 --> 0:58:42.720 of there are there any technology that they've developed that 0:58:42.840 --> 0:58:47.000 that can help us deal with the ecological disaster that 0:58:47.160 --> 0:58:50.520 our current planet is under, or you know, help us 0:58:51.080 --> 0:58:54.760 you know, grow food more efficiently, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. There 0:58:54.800 --> 0:58:56.720 anything we can learn from these other worlds in glean 0:58:56.800 --> 0:59:00.720 and bring back to our world. All through that, there 0:59:01.000 --> 0:59:03.800 is the idea there is you know, You're left to 0:59:03.880 --> 0:59:07.680 wonder as you read the early parts of this story, like, okay, 0:59:08.000 --> 0:59:11.560 but is it happening in reverse? Are there are there 0:59:11.640 --> 0:59:14.000 people from the other Earth coming to it? And so 0:59:14.560 --> 0:59:17.040 all of those questions are things that get answered. It's 0:59:17.080 --> 0:59:23.840 a really amazing story about about class, about race. It 0:59:24.000 --> 0:59:28.720 is a wonderful sci fi tale, really like heartbreakingly told. 0:59:28.880 --> 0:59:31.760 Just a really good, really good book, really surprising, and 0:59:31.920 --> 0:59:36.200 a great multiverse story that unfolds in a way that 0:59:36.320 --> 0:59:37.320 you're not expecting. 0:59:38.360 --> 0:59:40.920 One of my favorite things that I always talk about 0:59:41.200 --> 0:59:43.680 when people ask about like what's like a good queer 0:59:43.840 --> 0:59:46.720 comic or what's like a good story that kind of 0:59:46.760 --> 0:59:49.520 focused on different kinds of people. Tillie Walden, who is 0:59:49.600 --> 0:59:51.880 like one of our greatest living cartoonists and who is 0:59:51.920 --> 0:59:56.120 painfully talented for someone in the early twenties, made this 0:59:56.400 --> 1:00:00.640 unbelievable hundreds of pages long web comic called on Sunbeam, 1:00:00.720 --> 1:00:03.680 which you can also buy in a beautiful bound edition, 1:00:03.800 --> 1:00:05.680 but they never took down the free web comic, which 1:00:05.720 --> 1:00:11.919 I love, and it is the most sprawling, strange, beautifully 1:00:12.080 --> 1:00:15.800 illustrated story about these kids on this spaceship and this 1:00:16.040 --> 1:00:20.920 kind of ongoing journey that's about them and about the 1:00:21.040 --> 1:00:24.840 journeys they're going on in their relationships, but it's also 1:00:24.880 --> 1:00:26.960 about the journey of growing up. But it's also just 1:00:27.040 --> 1:00:31.560 a really cool, weird, quiet space story. But there are 1:00:31.680 --> 1:00:35.440 elements of magical school fantasy to it. The spaceship kind 1:00:35.480 --> 1:00:40.040 of grows and shifts and it's so wondrous and when 1:00:40.080 --> 1:00:42.120 you read it you don't really realize till the end. 1:00:42.280 --> 1:00:45.360 But there is a very specific focus on a certain 1:00:45.480 --> 1:00:48.560 kind of character, and there is a very specific decentering 1:00:49.360 --> 1:00:54.320 of like the usual male heroic protagonist. And it's one 1:00:54.360 --> 1:00:56.720 of the most sort of subtly radical books that I've 1:00:56.760 --> 1:00:58.760 read in a long time. And it's also Tilly's art 1:00:58.880 --> 1:01:03.920 is so beautiful and intricate, Like this is one of 1:01:03.960 --> 1:01:05.680 those comics where you can really go back and just 1:01:05.760 --> 1:01:08.520 read it a million times and you always notice something different. 1:01:09.760 --> 1:01:12.240 Next. This is specifically why we're going to have our 1:01:12.440 --> 1:01:13.560 guest in our next segment. 1:01:13.600 --> 1:01:13.840 Come on. 1:01:14.680 --> 1:01:18.600 But Nicola Griffith's hild Yeah talked about in various places 1:01:19.000 --> 1:01:25.840 from twenty thirteen. Nicola is a wonderful writer, queer writer, 1:01:27.360 --> 1:01:33.760 disabled writer who writes really empathically and wonderfully in just 1:01:33.920 --> 1:01:36.240 like ways that are completely evocative. There are scenes in 1:01:36.320 --> 1:01:38.880 Hill that I think about all the time. I reread 1:01:39.040 --> 1:01:42.040 all the time because they're just about you know, like 1:01:42.400 --> 1:01:44.360 I came to like, I think a lot of people 1:01:44.480 --> 1:01:46.600 comic books in sci fi and fantasy, because like there's 1:01:46.640 --> 1:01:49.480 this feeling of like outsider news, like you're looking for 1:01:50.720 --> 1:01:57.280 you're looking for a place where your own personal strangeness 1:01:57.960 --> 1:02:00.640 and the way you don't fit, like the piece about 1:02:00.680 --> 1:02:02.640 you that maybe don't fit. You're looking for the way 1:02:02.840 --> 1:02:04.400 that world where they do kind of fit. 1:02:04.560 --> 1:02:04.680 Right. 1:02:05.240 --> 1:02:09.320 And this is like page one of hild describing the 1:02:09.400 --> 1:02:10.800 character hill To, who at this point as a three 1:02:10.840 --> 1:02:13.600 year old girl, she liked time at the edges of things, 1:02:13.680 --> 1:02:15.560 the edges of the crowd, the edge of the pool, 1:02:15.600 --> 1:02:17.480 the edge of the wood were almost pass but none 1:02:17.520 --> 1:02:19.800 quite belonged. And that's basically the entire book is how 1:02:19.920 --> 1:02:24.240 this character who is a woman in a world where 1:02:24.800 --> 1:02:27.800 women are not viewed as having any kind of power, 1:02:28.040 --> 1:02:30.520 and their work is seen as somehow lesser work. There's 1:02:30.560 --> 1:02:34.760 a great, really evocative, very small moment where like a 1:02:34.880 --> 1:02:39.080 certain warrior who is having a dalliance with one of 1:02:39.120 --> 1:02:43.640 the women characters, offers to help her, you know, bring 1:02:43.760 --> 1:02:45.600 some of the washing in. But as long as it's 1:02:45.720 --> 1:02:48.120 night and no one will see that he is helping 1:02:48.200 --> 1:02:50.480 her with like women's work, you know, in exchange for 1:02:50.600 --> 1:02:53.040 them hanging out longer. Like there's all these little moments 1:02:53.120 --> 1:02:56.600 that bring you into the power of the people like 1:02:56.680 --> 1:03:00.640 who are overlooked, And it's just like a really really 1:03:00.720 --> 1:03:03.800 really really amazing book, really really amazing books. That's like 1:03:04.240 --> 1:03:07.600 there's some great plot turns, really hard like pounding like 1:03:07.680 --> 1:03:10.120 suspense and action, but all these also these really like 1:03:10.280 --> 1:03:16.800 internal quiet moments about noticing the way people interact, Noticing 1:03:16.880 --> 1:03:20.360 the way people treat the main character, Notice how they 1:03:20.440 --> 1:03:23.920 treat each other, Notice how they act when they're anxious. 1:03:24.080 --> 1:03:27.400 It's a lot about noticing, which is what I love 1:03:27.440 --> 1:03:27.760 about it. 1:03:28.200 --> 1:03:31.600 Yeah, there's so much detail. Nikolas an amazing I love 1:03:31.640 --> 1:03:34.000 that book so much. And Nikolas another amazing book coming 1:03:34.040 --> 1:03:36.600 out called Spear, which is kind of this queer authorian 1:03:37.000 --> 1:03:38.760 me imagining, and it's not out yet, so I won't 1:03:38.760 --> 1:03:41.800 get too deep into details, but it definitely comes from 1:03:41.840 --> 1:03:46.200 that same space of the edges, Like we're on the edges, 1:03:46.280 --> 1:03:50.200 and the journey is to find the other people who 1:03:50.320 --> 1:03:52.440 are our family, who are also on the edges, to 1:03:52.480 --> 1:03:54.600 find that community. And I think that's such a powerful 1:03:54.680 --> 1:03:57.800 thing kind of about all of these books and what 1:03:57.920 --> 1:04:01.280 we look for. Strek is going to be like one 1:04:01.360 --> 1:04:03.000 of the most This is one of the books I 1:04:03.080 --> 1:04:05.240 think about the most that I've read recently, which is 1:04:05.320 --> 1:04:09.800 called Pet by a quakm Ezi, and it is like, 1:04:12.200 --> 1:04:16.880 this is like the kind of transgressive fiction that I 1:04:16.960 --> 1:04:20.120 feel like doesn't often get published, but this did. And 1:04:20.280 --> 1:04:23.400 it is a kid's book, but it's also an adults book, 1:04:23.560 --> 1:04:28.080 and it is set in a futuristic world where where 1:04:28.200 --> 1:04:34.600 monsters don't exist, but then a monster escapes out of 1:04:35.520 --> 1:04:40.959 an artist's canvas and suddenly this young black trans girl 1:04:41.120 --> 1:04:45.200 who is the protagonist begins to question whether or not 1:04:45.280 --> 1:04:48.480 these monsters do exist, and whether or not what the 1:04:48.600 --> 1:04:50.800 society has done by kind of shunning them. And it's 1:04:50.880 --> 1:04:53.720 really analogous to all this incredibly deep stuff. And as 1:04:53.800 --> 1:04:55.439 you read it as an adult, I feel like there's 1:04:55.480 --> 1:04:59.480 so many terrifying, emotionally wrought layers to it. But it 1:04:59.560 --> 1:05:02.920 also imagines a world where, in you know, the beginning, 1:05:03.120 --> 1:05:06.240 a black trans girl is safe, and in that way, 1:05:06.280 --> 1:05:10.360 it's this incredibly utopian. It's that use of radical imagination 1:05:10.480 --> 1:05:12.080 that we will talk about a lot like to make 1:05:12.120 --> 1:05:14.200 a better world, you have to imagine it. And I 1:05:14.240 --> 1:05:16.560 feel like in a way, Hill does that in a 1:05:16.720 --> 1:05:20.680 historical way where it rewrites history and broadens the scope 1:05:20.720 --> 1:05:23.560 of who was involved, which is just true because the 1:05:23.720 --> 1:05:26.920 people didn't not exist, they were just written out. And 1:05:27.000 --> 1:05:28.560 Pet does it in a way where it helps us 1:05:28.880 --> 1:05:31.680 to imagine like a future. And I just that book 1:05:31.720 --> 1:05:33.400 I think about so much. I feel like it's one 1:05:33.440 --> 1:05:36.480 of those books where in years to come it will 1:05:36.520 --> 1:05:38.880 become a kind of you know, I always think about 1:05:39.200 --> 1:05:42.160 very different book, but Neil Gaiman Stardust, that's a book 1:05:42.160 --> 1:05:43.800 where you could give it to a kid and you 1:05:43.800 --> 1:05:45.320 could give it to an adult, and two people would 1:05:45.320 --> 1:05:48.120 read it in totally different ways. And Pet really feels 1:05:48.200 --> 1:05:51.200 like a great contemporary version of one of those kind 1:05:51.240 --> 1:05:54.160 of timeless, ageless stories. 1:05:54.400 --> 1:05:57.640 And then my last wreck, I'm going to go nonfiction. 1:05:58.480 --> 1:06:01.680 There are a lot of heroin things going on right 1:06:01.720 --> 1:06:03.880 now in the news, and it can be like difficult 1:06:03.960 --> 1:06:10.440 to like process everything. Susan Sontag, the essayist, philosopher, writer, novelist, thinker, 1:06:10.960 --> 1:06:15.560 wrote a really moving and wise and powerful book called 1:06:15.720 --> 1:06:18.440 Regarding the Pain of Others. It's really like a long essay, 1:06:19.440 --> 1:06:24.360 and it's about how in modern life. It's kind of 1:06:24.400 --> 1:06:27.800 a companion to her essay on photography, just like about 1:06:27.880 --> 1:06:31.200 what it means to like regard images that have been 1:06:31.320 --> 1:06:36.040 mass produced and moved from different places. And it's a 1:06:36.200 --> 1:06:40.320 companion in that it posits that in the modern world, 1:06:40.440 --> 1:06:43.480 like it's never been easier for us to see and 1:06:43.680 --> 1:06:49.560 engage with images that depict other people suffering, other people's pain, 1:06:49.680 --> 1:06:51.520 et cetera. And so like, how do we deal with that? 1:06:51.600 --> 1:06:52.360 How do we sit with that? 1:06:53.040 --> 1:06:53.640 What do we do? 1:06:54.960 --> 1:06:59.880 What does it mean if you can't quote unquote do anything, 1:07:00.240 --> 1:07:02.720 is it enough to just look at it and think 1:07:02.760 --> 1:07:04.960 about it and feel something about it? I found it 1:07:05.720 --> 1:07:08.120 very moving and very wise. And it's a book that 1:07:08.200 --> 1:07:10.920 I think about a lot all the time still. 1:07:11.440 --> 1:07:14.000 And I'm going to end with We've talked about, you know, 1:07:14.600 --> 1:07:17.760 the Boy Wizard, the Boy who Lived. It's something we 1:07:17.840 --> 1:07:21.200 talk about a lot. It's an overarching story of our time. 1:07:21.440 --> 1:07:23.440 But I have read a book that comes out in 1:07:23.560 --> 1:07:28.080 May called The Marvelers by Donnielle Clayton, and it feels 1:07:28.520 --> 1:07:32.160 like it could be and it should be that next 1:07:32.320 --> 1:07:36.040 kind of cultural phenomenon book. Oh wow, it's a global 1:07:37.160 --> 1:07:41.920 reimagining of the magical story, like magical school story. It's 1:07:41.920 --> 1:07:44.320 about a girl called Ella who goes to this Arkanam 1:07:44.520 --> 1:07:49.720 training academy for Marvelers and she is a conjurer at 1:07:49.800 --> 1:07:52.439 this school in the sky. But she's the first ever 1:07:53.240 --> 1:07:56.520 conjurer to attend, and that means that she is the 1:07:57.600 --> 1:08:01.280 target for people who don't trust her, who are suspicious 1:08:01.320 --> 1:08:04.240 of it. And it is this kind of it's so 1:08:04.600 --> 1:08:07.360 magical and it gives you that feeling of walking through 1:08:07.400 --> 1:08:10.880 the halls, those magical, cozy feelings you want. But it's 1:08:10.920 --> 1:08:15.160 also a book that deals with racial integration, it deals 1:08:15.200 --> 1:08:18.639 with generational trauma. But all the while is it feels 1:08:18.800 --> 1:08:23.360 like this huge moment for fantasy. Kids from all around 1:08:23.400 --> 1:08:26.759 the world study at these schools. You know, there's different 1:08:27.439 --> 1:08:30.800 notions of what it is to be magical and to 1:08:30.880 --> 1:08:34.639 be from a different place that feels just miles away 1:08:34.680 --> 1:08:37.320 from the stereotypes of old And I think it could 1:08:37.360 --> 1:08:40.360 be a big moment for people like us who love 1:08:40.520 --> 1:08:42.920 these books, and hopefully for kids who love these books. 1:08:42.920 --> 1:08:44.800 I feel like The Marvelers could be that. 1:08:44.920 --> 1:08:47.840 Book out May third really excited for that. Up next 1:08:47.880 --> 1:09:02.160 to our discussion with the author Nicola Griffith. Welcome to 1:09:02.160 --> 1:09:04.400 the Hive Mind, where we explore topic and more detail 1:09:04.479 --> 1:09:06.400 with the help of expert guests. This week we're absolutely 1:09:06.439 --> 1:09:09.479 thrilled to have Nicola Griffith, the award winning author of 1:09:09.600 --> 1:09:13.040 So Lucky, Hilled, the Odd, and other books, and of 1:09:13.120 --> 1:09:15.920 course the upcoming novel Spear, which is available April nineteenth. 1:09:16.240 --> 1:09:17.760 Hella, Nikola, thank you so much. 1:09:19.080 --> 1:09:20.640 Hi, it's great to be here. 1:09:21.240 --> 1:09:23.639 Yeah, thank you so much for joining us and taking 1:09:23.680 --> 1:09:26.919 the time. We're both really big fans of your stories 1:09:27.200 --> 1:09:30.000 and we're so stoked to talk to you. Something that 1:09:30.040 --> 1:09:32.519 we often do when we talk to people on here 1:09:32.640 --> 1:09:36.280 is like, what was your origin story with fantasy, with 1:09:36.560 --> 1:09:39.080 sci fi, with kind of stories that made you want 1:09:39.200 --> 1:09:40.479 to write stories? 1:09:40.840 --> 1:09:45.840 Wow, That's a bit like saying, why are you who 1:09:45.960 --> 1:09:54.560 you are? Panic? Okay. Basically, my first introduction to story was, 1:09:54.760 --> 1:09:57.880 like I'm guessing, like most people, my mum telling me 1:09:58.040 --> 1:10:02.120 stories at bedtime, and she would make up stories and 1:10:02.240 --> 1:10:05.839 then she would read me kids' books, that is, kids' 1:10:05.920 --> 1:10:10.840 versions of myths, Greek myths and legends, and so my 1:10:11.000 --> 1:10:15.439 first introduction to story was obviously all made up. I 1:10:15.560 --> 1:10:21.639 think most kids they like things that are completely not real. Yeah, 1:10:22.200 --> 1:10:24.880 but they can't really tell me. Everything is new to 1:10:25.000 --> 1:10:29.519 a child, right, you're three. You've never seen a bunny before, 1:10:29.640 --> 1:10:33.679 so you don't know a bunny can't talk, so talking rabbit, 1:10:33.760 --> 1:10:37.800 it's like, that's perfectly normal. But I never is some 1:10:37.960 --> 1:10:39.479 part of me. I don't think I ever let go 1:10:39.640 --> 1:10:44.240 of that. I feel that way also about nature. I 1:10:44.320 --> 1:10:47.599 felt the same kind of thrill going for a walk 1:10:47.720 --> 1:10:52.320 under the trees that I do getting lost in a story. 1:10:52.360 --> 1:10:55.479 It's the same kind of journey for me. It's a 1:10:55.600 --> 1:11:00.759 getting lost, finding my own way and discovering things about 1:11:00.840 --> 1:11:04.040 me in this other place, whether it's a story or 1:11:04.040 --> 1:11:10.240 an actual geographic location. And to me, story writing stories 1:11:10.400 --> 1:11:14.400 is really the very best way to capture both those things, 1:11:14.439 --> 1:11:17.599 and I think it's probably why almost everything I write 1:11:17.720 --> 1:11:20.519 has a lot of nature in it. I hope that 1:11:20.680 --> 1:11:23.760 makes sense. I hope I'm answering the question because I. 1:11:23.880 --> 1:11:26.280 Love that and that it was like listening to a 1:11:26.320 --> 1:11:28.160 wonderful story. We're both just, like. 1:11:29.680 --> 1:11:32.920 Nikola, a big fan of your stories, as Rosie said, 1:11:32.960 --> 1:11:37.439 particularly Ammonite, which is your first novel. I believe about 1:11:37.960 --> 1:11:40.880 it's sci fi colony, a sci fi story about all 1:11:40.920 --> 1:11:46.080 women's colony in Space and Hild, which I found randomly 1:11:46.320 --> 1:11:49.479 in a bookstore under one of the you know, the 1:11:49.600 --> 1:11:53.120 suggestions from the from the workers at the bookstore, and 1:11:53.240 --> 1:11:55.280 I just happened to pick it up and I loved it. 1:11:55.400 --> 1:11:57.479 I think one of the things that I love about 1:11:57.479 --> 1:12:02.799 your writing is how how you bring the reader into 1:12:03.200 --> 1:12:07.320 the way characters notice things, in particular the way characters 1:12:07.360 --> 1:12:12.880 who aren't close to power are in power notice things 1:12:13.000 --> 1:12:18.240 that the people in power don't. I think in particular, 1:12:18.240 --> 1:12:23.040 there's a scene in Hild where where hilled Is has 1:12:23.160 --> 1:12:27.479 noticed that Edwin, the king is nervous about something is 1:12:27.560 --> 1:12:30.720 having a lot of meetings, but she can't quite unpack what. 1:12:30.960 --> 1:12:33.880 And then she asks one of his guesses, guesses, one 1:12:33.920 --> 1:12:37.200 of his warrior companions, so what's going on in the meetings? 1:12:37.720 --> 1:12:39.599 And the warrior companion is like, I don't know, it's 1:12:39.640 --> 1:12:42.200 boring old men talking about stuff. So she's like, okay, 1:12:42.600 --> 1:12:44.680 let me get this guy some food, men off and 1:12:44.720 --> 1:12:47.799 open up when they when they're when they're not hungry anymore, 1:12:47.840 --> 1:12:49.840 and then she just talks to him about different things 1:12:49.880 --> 1:12:52.519 that perhaps he's noticed, and then she's able to kind 1:12:52.560 --> 1:12:56.160 of through this unwind what it is that is gnawing 1:12:56.280 --> 1:12:59.080 at the king, and then she's able to in a 1:12:59.280 --> 1:13:02.120 in a very power powerful way, use that information in 1:13:02.240 --> 1:13:06.080 a way that's a little manipulative but also is very 1:13:06.160 --> 1:13:08.120 smart in the way that she's getting the thing that 1:13:08.200 --> 1:13:11.200 she wants, but also getting the king the thing that 1:13:11.280 --> 1:13:15.360 he wants. How much do you think about that when 1:13:15.400 --> 1:13:17.400 you're when you're writing It's it's just something I love 1:13:17.439 --> 1:13:19.000 about the way you write. 1:13:19.040 --> 1:13:22.080 Most of those scenes. I remember that particular scene very 1:13:22.120 --> 1:13:24.800 well because I remember thinking, Okay, she needs to get 1:13:24.840 --> 1:13:27.840 him something to eat, Like, what the fuck did they eat? 1:13:27.960 --> 1:13:33.800 Then I had to okay, right, hair, they ate hairs, right, 1:13:33.920 --> 1:13:36.760 let's look pie and hair and but so yes, I 1:13:36.800 --> 1:13:39.360 do remember that scene really well. And she was very young, 1:13:39.680 --> 1:13:44.360 as I fool, so I was discovering it kind of 1:13:44.600 --> 1:13:48.000 with Hilt. I knew she needed a moment where she 1:13:48.200 --> 1:13:53.280 had to bring everything she had learnt together in this one, 1:13:55.240 --> 1:13:58.720 like she had to behave like a seer, as though 1:13:58.840 --> 1:14:02.639 she had magic, but of course she doesn't, because it's 1:14:02.680 --> 1:14:05.000 not a fantasy booky, even though it reads a bit 1:14:05.160 --> 1:14:09.280 like that, she had to make other people think that 1:14:09.439 --> 1:14:14.519 she was magic, and she had this prophetic gift. And 1:14:14.880 --> 1:14:18.280 so before I wrote that scene, did I know exactly 1:14:18.920 --> 1:14:21.800 how she was going to do that? No, I really 1:14:21.880 --> 1:14:25.040 had no clue. I just had a feeling. I just 1:14:25.640 --> 1:14:29.000 knew what the place felt like and how she felt, 1:14:29.560 --> 1:14:32.080 and what it might be like to be surrounded by 1:14:32.200 --> 1:14:36.360 all these yesses with swords and spears and she's got 1:14:36.439 --> 1:14:38.640 nothing except well, now by this time she has her 1:14:38.680 --> 1:14:43.920 little sex. Actually not that little bit. So I suppose 1:14:43.960 --> 1:14:48.920 it's a bit like saying, how where does inspiration come from? 1:14:49.080 --> 1:14:51.000 I don't really know. It comes from a lot of 1:14:51.160 --> 1:14:55.400 work and putting clues together. Basically, you're seeing in this 1:14:55.720 --> 1:14:59.560 book through hilld my process as a writer, which is 1:15:00.200 --> 1:15:07.120 part serendipity, part smart, part research, and part just trusting 1:15:07.520 --> 1:15:10.680 that it will be there when you step off the 1:15:10.880 --> 1:15:14.760 edge that you're building your bridge. As you walk, there's 1:15:14.800 --> 1:15:16.920 this chasm and you're heading towards it, and you just 1:15:17.040 --> 1:15:20.559 have to have faith that there'll be something there when 1:15:20.600 --> 1:15:21.200 you get there. 1:15:21.479 --> 1:15:24.000 That's really interesting and it kind of that kind of 1:15:24.600 --> 1:15:26.439 talk speaks to one of the things I really wanted 1:15:26.479 --> 1:15:30.040 to know, how did you kind of discover Hill? Because 1:15:30.080 --> 1:15:32.640 I'm from England, I've been to Whitby a lot. I 1:15:32.800 --> 1:15:35.360 was a goth when I was a teenager. I loved Dracula. 1:15:35.479 --> 1:15:36.160 It was really. 1:15:36.040 --> 1:15:40.200 Important place to me. But I'd never heard of I'd 1:15:40.240 --> 1:15:42.120 never heard of hilld I'd never heard of this story. 1:15:42.200 --> 1:15:45.880 How did you discover her? And then what made you 1:15:45.960 --> 1:15:48.720 want to tell the story of hild and bring it 1:15:48.840 --> 1:15:49.879 to a wider audience. 1:15:50.200 --> 1:15:54.120 I discovered her the day I discovered Whitby. I'd been 1:15:54.600 --> 1:15:57.280 living in Hull. I don't know if you ever spent 1:15:57.400 --> 1:16:01.920 any time in Hull, very depressed, quite depressing city in 1:16:02.000 --> 1:16:04.519 the northeast of England, where at the time when I 1:16:04.640 --> 1:16:08.280 was living the unemployment rate was twenty five percent. Wow. 1:16:08.760 --> 1:16:12.200 And it literally smelled because the drains were all falling. 1:16:12.320 --> 1:16:14.599 I mean, it was just a terrible place to live. 1:16:15.120 --> 1:16:16.680 And I'd been having a bit of a hard time. 1:16:16.800 --> 1:16:20.639 So one weekend I escaped and went up the coast 1:16:21.320 --> 1:16:25.879 and went to Whitby. And I'd heard obviously, I'd read Dracula, 1:16:26.160 --> 1:16:29.320 I'd heard of Whitby, so I was expecting all the steps. 1:16:29.439 --> 1:16:33.360 I was expecting the abbey. What I really was not 1:16:33.800 --> 1:16:36.759 expecting was what happened when I got to the abbey, 1:16:37.320 --> 1:16:41.639 which is back in the day. It's changed now there's 1:16:41.920 --> 1:16:44.400 much more control about who can go in, But back 1:16:44.439 --> 1:16:47.680 in the day you just kind of walked through it 1:16:47.840 --> 1:16:51.519 and there was this stone threshold and I remember crossing 1:16:51.600 --> 1:16:56.879 that threshold and it was like history just came fisting 1:16:57.080 --> 1:17:00.960 up through me, and I was just it just turned 1:17:01.000 --> 1:17:05.160 me inside out like a sock. Suddenly. It's like, I 1:17:05.200 --> 1:17:08.400 don't know, if you're familiar with there's a kind of 1:17:08.520 --> 1:17:12.760 New Age theory that some parts of the earth that 1:17:13.160 --> 1:17:17.439 the layer between the world and the other world is 1:17:17.600 --> 1:17:21.560 very thin. I think Whitby is if you buy into that, 1:17:21.840 --> 1:17:26.679 is one of those thin places. There's a real sense 1:17:26.800 --> 1:17:31.280 of imminence and otherness there. And so I just walked 1:17:31.439 --> 1:17:35.040 into it and it was like it was like sticking 1:17:35.160 --> 1:17:38.360 my head into a perfectly ordinary wardrobe and finding I 1:17:38.479 --> 1:17:42.280 was in Narnia. It was just I was blown away, 1:17:43.560 --> 1:17:46.560 and so I had to I had to know what 1:17:46.840 --> 1:17:50.080 is this place? Who built this place, where does it 1:17:50.200 --> 1:17:53.800 come from, why here, what's it about? What does it mean? 1:17:54.600 --> 1:17:57.360 And so I went to the little tourist place attached 1:17:57.439 --> 1:18:00.920 to the abbey, which is much bigger now amazing, but 1:18:01.040 --> 1:18:03.920 then it was just like a tatty little place next door, 1:18:04.640 --> 1:18:07.360 and they had a few little brochures, and I read 1:18:07.479 --> 1:18:10.760 that the abbey had been founded fourteen hundred years ago 1:18:10.840 --> 1:18:13.080 by this woman called Hill, And I knew a bit 1:18:13.200 --> 1:18:16.120 about history at this point, and I thought, well, fourteen 1:18:16.200 --> 1:18:21.080 hundred years ago, that was the quote Dark Ages. So 1:18:22.439 --> 1:18:25.840 how come a woman in the Dark Ages, when Mike 1:18:26.200 --> 1:18:30.680 was right and women supposedly were just chattel and had 1:18:30.720 --> 1:18:35.719 no power, how could she possibly have created this amazing 1:18:35.800 --> 1:18:40.879 place and done such things and still be known today, 1:18:41.120 --> 1:18:46.240 well partially known today. And so I went to try 1:18:46.280 --> 1:18:48.760 to find a book about her, and there wasn't a 1:18:48.800 --> 1:18:55.040 book about her. There's no scholarly monograph, there's no TV series, 1:18:55.120 --> 1:18:59.559 there's no cartoon, there's not even a racy romance novel. 1:18:59.600 --> 1:19:04.080 There was nothing, ringing silence. The only thing I could 1:19:04.120 --> 1:19:11.280 find was Venerable Beads, History of the English Church and People, 1:19:12.240 --> 1:19:16.240 and that has less than five pages about her, and 1:19:16.400 --> 1:19:23.160 most of that is really typical Saints stories that could 1:19:23.160 --> 1:19:26.600 apply to anybody, so that it's not real information. And 1:19:27.160 --> 1:19:30.280 there was there was no information. So now by this 1:19:30.400 --> 1:19:35.880 time I'm on fire with curiosity. So I researched that 1:19:36.000 --> 1:19:40.439 book on and off for I would say, fifteen years, 1:19:41.640 --> 1:19:43.880 because I went to Whitby in the eighties and it 1:19:44.040 --> 1:19:46.040 was in the back of my mind all that time. 1:19:46.400 --> 1:19:50.120 And then gradually, sometime in the nineties, I started picking 1:19:50.200 --> 1:19:54.920 up history books and actually reading and working my way 1:19:55.080 --> 1:20:00.240 back through notions of history. So I started with old 1:20:00.280 --> 1:20:04.240 fashioned mid twentieth century history, and by the time I'd 1:20:04.280 --> 1:20:08.040 finished researching, although toupy Frank, I'm still not finished researching. 1:20:08.080 --> 1:20:09.720 I'm going to be researching this for the rest of 1:20:09.760 --> 1:20:12.639 my life. By the time I got to the point 1:20:12.640 --> 1:20:14.479 where I was ready to write the book, shall I say, 1:20:14.560 --> 1:20:18.519 the first book, I was talking to the people doing 1:20:18.640 --> 1:20:22.320 the research before it was published in two thousand and eight, 1:20:22.880 --> 1:20:27.320 early career researchers. They were discovering blogs and so you 1:20:27.400 --> 1:20:31.200 could you could just go online and find these people 1:20:31.320 --> 1:20:33.600 and what they were doing and talk to them in 1:20:33.720 --> 1:20:37.320 the comments. And they didn't know who I was. They 1:20:37.400 --> 1:20:40.760 didn't know whether I was amazingly famous or nobody or 1:20:40.840 --> 1:20:43.840 a lunatic, and so they were very cautious at first, 1:20:43.960 --> 1:20:48.240 so I would have to elicit information from them. They 1:20:48.439 --> 1:20:52.280 didn't like risking stuff. They didn't like to say something 1:20:52.320 --> 1:20:55.519 unless they could give you ten footnotes, and so I 1:20:55.560 --> 1:20:58.519 remember one time I was trying to find out what 1:20:59.240 --> 1:21:05.280 the Anglos Saxon's thought about dogs, what was their attitude 1:21:05.360 --> 1:21:08.479 to dogs, and there was like, we know nothing about dogs. 1:21:09.040 --> 1:21:13.920 I said, okay, so if Hill had a Pekinese, and 1:21:13.960 --> 1:21:16.439 they're like, she wouldn't have had a Pekinese, that's just no. 1:21:16.680 --> 1:21:19.320 And I said, well there, you see, you do know something. 1:21:20.920 --> 1:21:24.760 So what kind of dog might she have had? So 1:21:25.160 --> 1:21:28.080 and then we went from there. But oh, it was 1:21:28.280 --> 1:21:31.719 like blood from a stone at first, getting this information 1:21:31.840 --> 1:21:35.200 from these people. So anyway, that's how it began, that's 1:21:35.240 --> 1:21:39.280 how I really needed to do it. And like I say, 1:21:39.360 --> 1:21:44.720 there was just no information. So I researched everything. I 1:21:44.920 --> 1:21:52.160 researched flora and fauna and building techniques and textile production 1:21:52.320 --> 1:21:57.439 and agriculture and the weather. Everything. Everything was different then. 1:21:58.479 --> 1:22:02.559 And I decided I was just build the seventh century. 1:22:02.560 --> 1:22:06.000 I was going to build the whole goddamn century, and 1:22:06.080 --> 1:22:08.840 then I was going to put Hilp in it and 1:22:09.000 --> 1:22:11.519 see how she behaved, what happened, How on earth she 1:22:11.640 --> 1:22:15.000 could have done this? And the only way to do 1:22:15.200 --> 1:22:20.200 that was by making her a child so I could 1:22:20.280 --> 1:22:25.000 discover along with her. But that that wasn't a deliberate choice. 1:22:25.439 --> 1:22:28.439 What happened was I got basically got drunk one day 1:22:30.320 --> 1:22:32.680 and I thought, oh, you know, screw this, It's my 1:22:32.800 --> 1:22:36.320 birthday tomorrow. I cannot go another year without starting this 1:22:36.640 --> 1:22:40.840 goddamn book. I thought, right, I'm going to start, and 1:22:40.920 --> 1:22:42.519 I had no idea what's going to just I'm going 1:22:42.560 --> 1:22:46.120 to write a paragraph, and so I began and there 1:22:46.240 --> 1:22:49.880 she was. She was, this three year old girl under 1:22:49.920 --> 1:22:56.320 a tree, and I thought, holy shit, that that's the 1:22:56.439 --> 1:22:59.240 key to everything. And then I was off. So, yeah, 1:22:59.320 --> 1:23:04.400 a mix of hard work, guessing, and alcohol, I suppose 1:23:05.560 --> 1:23:06.200 how I did that. 1:23:06.760 --> 1:23:11.720 Yeah, it sounds as if, and guessing from from the 1:23:12.160 --> 1:23:16.840 content of your other works, that this that the process 1:23:16.960 --> 1:23:21.320 of creating Hilt was very different than than what you've 1:23:21.439 --> 1:23:25.000 done previously or even since, with some of your more 1:23:25.040 --> 1:23:28.479 personal kind of works in different genres. Would you say 1:23:28.520 --> 1:23:29.679 that is that the case? 1:23:30.080 --> 1:23:35.160 They're all different, and yet they're all the same. I 1:23:35.360 --> 1:23:39.439 rarely write a book without some part of it having 1:23:40.240 --> 1:23:44.000 grown in my writer's brain, in my back brain, some 1:23:44.120 --> 1:23:46.639 little factoid that's stuck to another one and is sort 1:23:46.640 --> 1:23:49.720 of mutating in there, And then a few years later, 1:23:50.320 --> 1:23:54.840 this this thing springs out full blown. So in that sense, 1:23:54.920 --> 1:24:00.720 the process is the same. But almost every single thing 1:24:00.800 --> 1:24:06.680 I write is trying to answer a question, so so Emmonite. 1:24:06.800 --> 1:24:09.880 For example, my first book, the question I was trying 1:24:09.960 --> 1:24:13.639 to ask, trying to answer, was a question I saw 1:24:13.840 --> 1:24:18.080 being asked all the time in science fiction and not 1:24:18.479 --> 1:24:23.120 answered satisfactorily, not giving me the answer I wanted, which is, basically, 1:24:23.760 --> 1:24:28.840 are women human? I mean, because most science fiction books, 1:24:29.439 --> 1:24:32.600 if you had a world only of women, they behaved 1:24:32.960 --> 1:24:37.719 like half a thing, they didn't behave like whole human beings. 1:24:39.160 --> 1:24:40.720 And I thought, you know, no, I don't buy that 1:24:40.880 --> 1:24:43.479 answer at all, So I'm going to have to figure 1:24:43.520 --> 1:24:46.439 this out. So I wrote EMM and I basically to 1:24:46.520 --> 1:24:49.840 answer that question slower ever, came from a different kind 1:24:49.880 --> 1:24:53.960 of question, a much more personal question actually about who 1:24:54.120 --> 1:24:57.200 are you when you have nothing left? Is there such 1:24:57.200 --> 1:25:02.519 a thing as an essential self? And then the three 1:25:02.720 --> 1:25:07.800 out books those came from a dream. I had this 1:25:08.680 --> 1:25:14.240 dream that there was this woman, completely naked, sprawled on 1:25:14.400 --> 1:25:18.920 the carpet of an absolutely empty apartment, but sprawled in 1:25:19.040 --> 1:25:22.120 a really you know, like a lion on the velt, 1:25:22.479 --> 1:25:28.720 actually not afraid of anything, sprawled and it was absolutely 1:25:28.800 --> 1:25:31.439 empty apartment. I mean there weren't even light fixtures, it 1:25:31.600 --> 1:25:34.719 was that empty. And I was thinking, well, that's odd 1:25:34.880 --> 1:25:37.200 in my dream. And then the next thing I know, 1:25:37.400 --> 1:25:41.680 this woman wakes, is woken up by a gun to 1:25:41.840 --> 1:25:46.479 her head, and instead of going or freaking out even 1:25:46.920 --> 1:25:51.840 she just sits right up with a big flashlight and 1:25:52.000 --> 1:25:55.680 breaks the guy's neck boom like that, split second, no hesitation, 1:25:56.360 --> 1:26:02.320 and I going, whoa, well, who was who's that? 1:26:03.760 --> 1:26:04.640 And how come she. 1:26:04.840 --> 1:26:08.320 Could do that? What would make it possible? What kind 1:26:08.360 --> 1:26:12.320 of person could do that? And so the three out 1:26:12.400 --> 1:26:15.920 books were all about answering that question. How she got 1:26:16.000 --> 1:26:20.360 to be that person in that place at that time. So, yeah, 1:26:20.400 --> 1:26:22.880 it's always a question. Hill was like, how did this 1:26:23.040 --> 1:26:25.920 abby be like this? How could he'll do what she did? 1:26:27.680 --> 1:26:31.400 I think. I think the only book I've ever written 1:26:31.520 --> 1:26:35.719 that is not about answering a question but more about 1:26:35.880 --> 1:26:39.519 just getting stuff out because it needed to be out 1:26:40.479 --> 1:26:44.400 was So Lucky, my book about the woman diagnosed with 1:26:44.520 --> 1:26:44.840 their mess. 1:26:45.600 --> 1:26:46.200 And it's not. 1:26:46.520 --> 1:26:50.200 Autobiographical in the sense the character is not really very 1:26:50.320 --> 1:26:53.120 much like me, although I did give her an English 1:26:53.200 --> 1:26:54.960 accent because I was going to be doing the audio 1:26:55.080 --> 1:27:01.360 narration and I just couldn't. Actually in that sense, she's likely. 1:27:01.800 --> 1:27:04.960 But that book has always made me slightly uncomfortable because 1:27:05.000 --> 1:27:08.960 it's not my usual thing. And also it doesn't do 1:27:09.280 --> 1:27:12.080 what every other book I've ever done does, which is 1:27:12.200 --> 1:27:17.679 to basically center what most people would consider the other 1:27:18.320 --> 1:27:21.840 because in So Lucky, it's the only book about the 1:27:21.960 --> 1:27:25.560 difference of the character about her being disabled. Or my 1:27:25.640 --> 1:27:28.559 other books, you've got disabled people, you've got queer people, 1:27:28.640 --> 1:27:35.200 you've got women, et cetera, and it doesn't matter, it 1:27:35.600 --> 1:27:38.240 doesn't make any difference to the character them. It's all 1:27:38.280 --> 1:27:42.200 her blue eyes rather than green eyes. It's a nothing, 1:27:43.080 --> 1:27:46.080 Whereas So Lucky was very much that the difference was 1:27:46.120 --> 1:27:46.759 a something. 1:27:47.000 --> 1:27:50.479 It was the thing with Spear, you kind of you 1:27:50.600 --> 1:27:53.720 definitely continue that former version, which is every kind of 1:27:53.880 --> 1:27:56.880 character and involved in a kind of this, in this 1:27:57.040 --> 1:28:00.120 case an epic kind of reimagining of Arthurian law. So 1:28:00.600 --> 1:28:04.720 what's what's that question that Spear is answering? 1:28:05.760 --> 1:28:14.240 How do I retake Camelot for real people? Because the 1:28:14.439 --> 1:28:18.880 matter of Britain, the whole Arthurian cycle, it's essentially a 1:28:19.040 --> 1:28:25.800 national origin story, and so it's got this nativist, supremacist 1:28:26.800 --> 1:28:33.000 manifest destiny creme baked in and and I thought, you know, 1:28:33.320 --> 1:28:37.800 I love that legend. I love this notion of Camelot. 1:28:37.960 --> 1:28:40.560 I don't I don't care about it being a specific 1:28:41.400 --> 1:28:44.840 time or a specific place for me. Camelot's all about 1:28:44.920 --> 1:28:48.960 the dream mm hmm. It's about the the fight for 1:28:50.040 --> 1:28:54.680 justice and equity. And so I needed to find a 1:28:54.800 --> 1:28:59.880 way to write that but still make it our theory. 1:29:00.040 --> 1:29:04.479 And so that's how I did Spirit. That's why I 1:29:04.560 --> 1:29:07.280 wrote Spear, and also because it seemed like a really 1:29:07.400 --> 1:29:13.840 nifty idea. Honestly, to be honest, I really thought it 1:29:13.960 --> 1:29:16.800 was going to be a short story. I thought it 1:29:16.840 --> 1:29:19.879 would take me two weeks. I set the Hill sequel aside. 1:29:20.160 --> 1:29:21.840 I thought, okay, I'll get this done in two weeks, 1:29:21.880 --> 1:29:26.000 get back to Meanwood, and this thing just rowed out. 1:29:26.439 --> 1:29:30.360 I mean it just I can't tell you. After I 1:29:30.479 --> 1:29:33.320 wrote Spear and then I went back to Memewood, I 1:29:33.760 --> 1:29:37.000 wrote more in the first year of the pandemic in 1:29:37.160 --> 1:29:40.439 one year than I have ever written. I wrote two 1:29:40.560 --> 1:29:44.920 hundred thousand words. Wow, I think they were all good words. 1:29:45.080 --> 1:29:48.479 I wrote Spear, and I wrote a lot of Meme. 1:29:48.600 --> 1:29:52.920 I finished Meanwood, which is a very large book, and 1:29:53.040 --> 1:29:57.200 I just it just I was just really fired up. 1:29:57.320 --> 1:30:00.920 And the pandemic meant that I didn't have to stop 1:30:01.240 --> 1:30:03.679 to do things like even go to the doctor because 1:30:03.720 --> 1:30:05.280 no one was going to that. I didn't have to 1:30:05.680 --> 1:30:07.519 go out for dinner with anyone. I didn't have to 1:30:07.600 --> 1:30:10.559 go to conferences. I just got to stay at home 1:30:10.640 --> 1:30:16.240 and live in this early medieval world and it was wonderful. So, yeah, 1:30:16.320 --> 1:30:19.160 Spear was a confluence of all the things I love, 1:30:19.840 --> 1:30:22.680 all the things I love about Hilt, but also then 1:30:23.439 --> 1:30:28.559 completely free a lot of Hilt's exterior stresses. I mean, 1:30:28.680 --> 1:30:32.679 Parite is not. She doesn't have to worry about taking 1:30:32.840 --> 1:30:38.599 care of anybody. Really, She's young and free and makes 1:30:38.680 --> 1:30:41.360 the most of it. And I loved that. It felt 1:30:41.439 --> 1:30:41.880 really good. 1:30:42.320 --> 1:30:45.160 You wrote a New York Times up ed in twenty 1:30:45.240 --> 1:30:50.000 eighteen about your role as a queer writer with disabilities 1:30:50.760 --> 1:30:53.760 and how that influences your work and how important it 1:30:53.880 --> 1:30:57.439 is to be a representative for other people in the 1:30:57.479 --> 1:31:02.280 space who are looking for stories. Has anything changed since. 1:31:02.120 --> 1:31:07.080 That time, Oh, it's been amazing. Yeah, it is changing 1:31:07.280 --> 1:31:12.080 a lot. I'm really I'm thrilled. Actually, I've seen just 1:31:12.360 --> 1:31:15.680 I would say in the last five years and absolute 1:31:15.880 --> 1:31:24.840 explosion of disability literature. It's incredible, particularly in first of all, 1:31:24.920 --> 1:31:31.479 in the YA space, lots of YA cripplet, and now 1:31:33.800 --> 1:31:38.240 in the science fiction and fantasy space, there's an awful 1:31:38.360 --> 1:31:43.719 lot of literature about disabled characters with disabled characters. Should 1:31:43.760 --> 1:31:49.080 I say so, it's incredible. I'm still seeing a lot 1:31:49.120 --> 1:31:56.479 of resistance in more mainstream literary presses. What they want 1:31:56.560 --> 1:31:59.280 if you're disabled and you've got a disabled character, they 1:31:59.400 --> 1:32:02.680 want the book to be about the character's disability struggles. 1:32:03.280 --> 1:32:06.640 They don't want to just see them going whoo, you know, 1:32:06.880 --> 1:32:11.080 and whacking someone's head off with the sword. No, they 1:32:11.160 --> 1:32:16.040 want they want authenticity and their notion. Because they are 1:32:16.479 --> 1:32:21.880 ableists and most of us are honestly ablest, they think 1:32:22.000 --> 1:32:23.879 that the authentic experience is suffering. 1:32:24.120 --> 1:32:24.280 You know. 1:32:24.280 --> 1:32:29.960 I've seen the same thing with literature, especially memoir from 1:32:30.400 --> 1:32:35.080 immigrants and refugees, that all people want is their trauma story. 1:32:35.479 --> 1:32:38.280 Give us your drama. They don't want to know about 1:32:38.320 --> 1:32:42.000 the success and the joy and any of that stuff. 1:32:42.439 --> 1:32:46.559 So I'm still seeing that resistance, and also I'm seeing 1:32:47.560 --> 1:32:49.880 I would like to see more changes. Should I put 1:32:49.920 --> 1:32:56.240 it in criticism, I would rather see more people with 1:32:56.479 --> 1:33:04.000 disabilities reviewing fiction with disabled characters as opposed to non 1:33:04.080 --> 1:33:08.280 disabled people. I mean, I get so tired of seeing 1:33:08.360 --> 1:33:13.680 these books by non disabled people about disabled characters who 1:33:13.840 --> 1:33:18.640 kill themselves yep, and calling it wonderful and authentic. And 1:33:18.720 --> 1:33:22.880 I'm thinking, ah, well, I shouldn't say what I'm thinking. 1:33:23.000 --> 1:33:28.519 It's unprinciple. I would have to be considerably bleaped. But 1:33:28.680 --> 1:33:30.719 I'm not happy. I mean, I remember having a conversation 1:33:30.920 --> 1:33:34.280 with a writer who'd been sent one of these books 1:33:34.840 --> 1:33:39.040 to review, I think for the Washington Post, might be 1:33:39.080 --> 1:33:41.160 in the New York Times. She's like, I'm having a 1:33:41.280 --> 1:33:43.400 really hard time with it. So we talked about it, 1:33:43.479 --> 1:33:46.760 and I said, you need to say it. You need 1:33:46.920 --> 1:33:51.439 to say why it's wrong, why it's bad. And that 1:33:51.720 --> 1:33:57.599 was very difficult for her because her stance to reviewing 1:33:57.920 --> 1:34:01.360 is always lift up the writer. And I said this, 1:34:01.680 --> 1:34:04.040 you cannot lift her up for this, lift her up 1:34:04.080 --> 1:34:08.559 for every single thing in the book. Accept this. Yeah, 1:34:08.760 --> 1:34:11.560 and she did, and I was so pleased. So I 1:34:11.680 --> 1:34:14.559 was really grateful and glad. But that's what we need. 1:34:14.640 --> 1:34:15.400 We need more of that. 1:34:15.800 --> 1:34:19.160 Yeah, I agree, it's actually really shocking. I'm disabled, and 1:34:19.400 --> 1:34:24.000 that same trope of the honorable sacrifice. There was a 1:34:24.840 --> 1:34:26.880 YA book when I was a young kid, and I 1:34:26.960 --> 1:34:30.679 had a lot of community within the disability activism movement, 1:34:30.920 --> 1:34:33.719 but there was a book that would be given around 1:34:34.360 --> 1:34:36.439 and it was a YA book written by a man 1:34:36.520 --> 1:34:38.840 who had a son who had cerebral palsy. And at 1:34:38.880 --> 1:34:42.600 the end that the son gets set on fire and 1:34:42.720 --> 1:34:46.040 he dies, and the book is told from his perspective, 1:34:46.320 --> 1:34:49.280 and the perspective is he is glad that he's dying 1:34:49.320 --> 1:34:51.680 because it will be like good for his family. And 1:34:51.760 --> 1:34:54.960 that was a book that they legitimately gave to disabled kids, 1:34:55.040 --> 1:34:57.400 to people I know who had cerebral palsy like and 1:34:57.520 --> 1:35:00.040 that is still going on twenty years later, and and 1:35:00.080 --> 1:35:01.240 it kind of blows my mind. 1:35:01.960 --> 1:35:05.360 Look how long it took for queer lit to change 1:35:05.479 --> 1:35:10.240 from the lesbian giving it up so her bisexual clirll 1:35:10.320 --> 1:35:13.240 friend could have a normal life. I mean, really, that 1:35:13.360 --> 1:35:17.120 went on for eighty years. So in this sense, I 1:35:17.160 --> 1:35:21.880 think Cripplet is doing relatively well. It has a long 1:35:21.920 --> 1:35:24.960 way to go, but it's following many of the same 1:35:26.800 --> 1:35:30.960 paths I think. Has queer lit died. Yeah, So there 1:35:31.040 --> 1:35:34.280 is hope. There's hope it's coming. I just wish it 1:35:34.280 --> 1:35:36.519 would hurry up and get here a bit quicker. 1:35:36.960 --> 1:35:40.800 What are you reading now? What if for our listeners 1:35:41.120 --> 1:35:44.600 maybe thinking, oh, that sounds I've been waiting for a 1:35:44.640 --> 1:35:46.880 story like this. This is something I'd like to read. 1:35:47.439 --> 1:35:50.080 Well right now, I haven't been reading a lot of stories. 1:35:50.320 --> 1:35:53.720 Let me see, I've been reading a lot of nonfiction 1:35:54.240 --> 1:36:04.920 about small, tedious things in early medieval times. I love 1:36:05.000 --> 1:36:09.040 to hear it because I know, well, for example, I mean, 1:36:09.080 --> 1:36:13.519 this is actually more about Spear than Hilp. But I 1:36:13.800 --> 1:36:16.599 just read a really good book, and it's from two 1:36:16.640 --> 1:36:21.320 thousand and eight, all about our fury and literature and 1:36:21.640 --> 1:36:25.439 all the tropes that have been used, and how it's so. 1:36:25.600 --> 1:36:27.800 It's there's a whole set of different articles, so each 1:36:27.960 --> 1:36:31.840 article takes a different stance, but it's fascinating to see 1:36:31.960 --> 1:36:37.400 how much really serious scholarship has gone into the whole 1:36:38.040 --> 1:36:41.479 are a legend? I really wish I'm actually I say, 1:36:41.479 --> 1:36:45.040 I'm really glad I hadn't read that book before I 1:36:45.120 --> 1:36:48.360 wrote Spear, Otherwise I might say, well, were you not 1:36:48.560 --> 1:36:51.719 taking it? But let me see what have I read 1:36:52.800 --> 1:36:57.320 in the particularly the queer and fantasy space in the 1:36:57.439 --> 1:37:02.400 last year or two. It's I read Alex Harrow for 1:37:02.520 --> 1:37:06.599 the first time last year, so I read her novella 1:37:07.479 --> 1:37:10.599 A Spindle Splintered, and she's got a new one coming out, 1:37:10.640 --> 1:37:14.599 I think in a couple of months, called The Mirror Mended, 1:37:14.920 --> 1:37:19.880 and that it's really great. It is another kind of retelling, 1:37:20.080 --> 1:37:21.599 and so I want to get back to this notion 1:37:21.680 --> 1:37:25.719 of retelling in a minute. Also Samantha Shannon, who wrote 1:37:26.160 --> 1:37:29.040 The Priory of the Orange Tree. Yes, I'm drawing a 1:37:29.080 --> 1:37:30.760 bit of a blank. What I tend to do when 1:37:30.760 --> 1:37:35.400 I'm in writing mode is I read nonfiction and then 1:37:35.439 --> 1:37:40.240 I reread old favorites and poetry. I read poets. So 1:37:40.800 --> 1:37:44.640 I've basically subscribed to Poetry Magazine and just read that 1:37:44.840 --> 1:37:47.080 every month, you know, I read a couple of those 1:37:47.120 --> 1:37:48.360 and then go to sleep. 1:37:50.120 --> 1:37:55.439 Speaking of rereading things that you love, I'm often drawn 1:37:55.680 --> 1:37:59.479 to some scenes in Hill just because that, you know, 1:38:00.600 --> 1:38:03.120 they're so evocative, and one that I go back to 1:38:03.240 --> 1:38:11.080 again and again is the moment when Edwin King asks 1:38:11.320 --> 1:38:14.519 Hill to it gives her a challenge. She has to carry, 1:38:15.000 --> 1:38:17.840 you know, and she has to pour a cup for 1:38:18.000 --> 1:38:23.479 the King while carrying this extremely heavy torque armband that 1:38:23.600 --> 1:38:27.920 he has given her, and she finds a very inventive 1:38:28.520 --> 1:38:32.439 way to carry this out, surprising everyone. And it's a 1:38:32.479 --> 1:38:34.640 big moment. And there's other big moments like this, And 1:38:36.439 --> 1:38:39.200 when I'm reading them, all was thinking, God, for a 1:38:39.360 --> 1:38:44.439 child to be there and bluff the king to the 1:38:44.520 --> 1:38:47.240 point that the king is saying, Okay, well, we're going 1:38:47.320 --> 1:38:48.880 to do this thing that you're telling us to do, 1:38:49.000 --> 1:38:50.560 but if you're wrong, I'm going to feed you to 1:38:50.680 --> 1:38:54.200 my dogs. What is it like to write these scenes 1:38:54.280 --> 1:38:59.280 where you're just putting this child into these into these 1:39:00.120 --> 1:39:04.479 positions of great, great peril because I'm always so much 1:39:04.560 --> 1:39:05.640 more nervous than she is. 1:39:08.040 --> 1:39:14.920 Well, that's That's the thing about kids, is that I 1:39:15.000 --> 1:39:18.040 suppose part of me is trying to hild as say, 1:39:18.520 --> 1:39:21.679 a seven year old with the heavy and the talk, 1:39:21.960 --> 1:39:28.320 the armoring, trying to write her the way I would 1:39:28.560 --> 1:39:32.200 like to have been, you know, as a kid. I 1:39:32.280 --> 1:39:34.920 mean I was one of those I was always in fights. 1:39:35.040 --> 1:39:37.840 I like to climb trees, you know, I was. I 1:39:37.960 --> 1:39:41.160 wanted to live a big life. I wanted to do 1:39:41.479 --> 1:39:46.560 amazing things, and to me Hill there is that opportunity 1:39:46.720 --> 1:39:51.320 to do that, and so I didn't have a lot 1:39:51.400 --> 1:39:54.680 of fear as a seven year old, and so I 1:39:55.080 --> 1:39:59.240 give hild the kind of fear and caution I had 1:39:59.280 --> 1:40:01.840 as a seven year ol, which is she kind of 1:40:02.000 --> 1:40:06.719 knows that she's in great danger, but it doesn't freak 1:40:06.800 --> 1:40:09.759 her out. You know, she doesn't have a thundering heart, 1:40:09.920 --> 1:40:13.080 and she doesn't get sweaty. She's not part of her 1:40:13.200 --> 1:40:17.840 Her body doesn't really believe it. Her mind does because 1:40:17.840 --> 1:40:24.759 everyone tells her. But really, deep down, she knows she's immortal, 1:40:24.960 --> 1:40:26.679 like all kids do. We all think. 1:40:29.280 --> 1:40:30.439 So she's she's like that. 1:40:30.640 --> 1:40:33.639 But but then when I write the scene where someone 1:40:33.800 --> 1:40:36.000 threatens her that way, it gives me a shiver. I go, 1:40:38.320 --> 1:40:40.640 I can't I can't wait for someone else to read it, 1:40:40.840 --> 1:40:43.759 you know, I there are there. I love those moments 1:40:43.800 --> 1:40:47.840 in work going. I have playlists and I tend to 1:40:47.920 --> 1:40:53.040 type in rhythm and then something like happens and that 1:40:53.200 --> 1:40:59.160 girl and I always imagine the music swelling. It never does, 1:40:59.200 --> 1:41:03.400 because it's never that way. But yeah, it feels like that. 1:41:03.520 --> 1:41:07.240 It feels like this huge, amazing moment. I love writing. 1:41:07.479 --> 1:41:12.479 It's such a It's the best job I've ever had 1:41:12.520 --> 1:41:14.120 in my life, and I expect to have it till 1:41:15.120 --> 1:41:17.080 I dropped dead, which hopefully won't be for a really 1:41:17.160 --> 1:41:19.720 long time because I'm having too much fun and I 1:41:19.800 --> 1:41:21.679 have too much, too much to write. 1:41:22.920 --> 1:41:26.439 Speaking of can what if anything? Can you tell us 1:41:26.640 --> 1:41:27.559 of mean Wood? 1:41:27.760 --> 1:41:35.080 It's long. It is about thirty percent longer than Hill. 1:41:35.600 --> 1:41:37.639 Oh wow, it's wow wow wow long. 1:41:38.439 --> 1:41:44.400 And it starts almost immediately. Let me see when how 1:41:44.479 --> 1:41:48.600 many maybe four months after the end of Hill, and 1:41:48.720 --> 1:41:54.719 then it goes for four years and talk about endless 1:41:54.840 --> 1:42:03.320 regime change. Yeah wow. So she lends a lot about war. 1:42:04.680 --> 1:42:09.160 She has some very difficult times, but also she has 1:42:09.280 --> 1:42:14.439 these amazing joyous moments, and the book does end with 1:42:14.600 --> 1:42:18.160 a great sense of excitement and discovery and adventure. So 1:42:18.320 --> 1:42:20.360 that's pretty much all I'm going to say. 1:42:20.680 --> 1:42:24.240 We can't wait, We can't wait for it. Thank you 1:42:24.360 --> 1:42:26.840 Nicola for joining us. It's been wonderful to talk to you. 1:42:27.439 --> 1:42:29.200 It's been my pleasure. Thank you. 1:42:29.840 --> 1:42:31.760 Thanks so much to Nicola Griffith for coming on the 1:42:31.800 --> 1:42:41.760 show up next nerd Out. In Today's nerd Out, where 1:42:41.800 --> 1:42:44.559 you tell us what you love and why, Dave aka 1:42:44.760 --> 1:42:49.200 mister Fire to his students, pitches us on the Illuminatus trilogy. 1:42:49.520 --> 1:42:52.080 Hello Nerds, I'm coming to you today to talk about 1:42:52.120 --> 1:42:55.559 one of my favorite forms of nerdery, which is books, 1:42:55.880 --> 1:42:59.560 specifically the Illuminatus trilogy, written by Robert Anton Wilson and 1:42:59.720 --> 1:43:05.240 Robert Shay. Wilson and Shay were editors for Playboy. Specifically, 1:43:05.560 --> 1:43:09.080 they were dealing with letters to the magazine. Apparently some 1:43:09.160 --> 1:43:12.160 people really were reading it for the articles, and many 1:43:12.200 --> 1:43:15.599 of the letters that they received were about conspiracy theories. 1:43:15.960 --> 1:43:18.800 And the two of these guys decided between them that 1:43:19.080 --> 1:43:22.479 they were going to ask the question not which of 1:43:22.560 --> 1:43:25.720 these conspiracy theories are true, but rather what if all 1:43:25.800 --> 1:43:29.200 of them are true? And these books, this trilogy is 1:43:29.320 --> 1:43:33.439 conceived as a sort of journey through what if every 1:43:33.479 --> 1:43:36.360 single one of these conspiracies were true? What if not 1:43:36.520 --> 1:43:40.240 only someone other than who we think killed John F. Kennedy, 1:43:40.360 --> 1:43:43.240 What if a bunch of people killed John F. Kennedy altogether? 1:43:43.800 --> 1:43:47.200 What if John Dillinger is still alive? What if Adam 1:43:47.280 --> 1:43:51.439 Weishaupt killed George Washington and replaced him in order to 1:43:51.520 --> 1:43:54.439 bring the Bavarian Illuminati into power in the United States 1:43:54.840 --> 1:43:58.920 and either spread or stop the spread of cannabis being 1:43:59.000 --> 1:44:02.400 grown by George Washingrington and Thomas Jefferson. What if the 1:44:02.600 --> 1:44:05.880 MC five were spreading secrets with their song Kick Out 1:44:05.920 --> 1:44:08.800 the Jams. All of these things, all of these conspiracy 1:44:08.880 --> 1:44:13.720 theories are treated as completely real in these novels. The 1:44:13.840 --> 1:44:16.519 three books that make up the Illuminatus trilogy, The Eye 1:44:16.560 --> 1:44:20.559 in the Pyramid, The Golden Apple, and Leviathan all kind 1:44:20.600 --> 1:44:26.320 of work together, spinning this wild, drug fueled narrative building 1:44:26.400 --> 1:44:30.240 towards a gigantic music festival that has the names of 1:44:31.000 --> 1:44:33.240 hundreds of made up bands, some of which are now 1:44:33.360 --> 1:44:39.439 real bands. They all together craft a story of talking 1:44:39.600 --> 1:44:44.840 dolphins and an Atlantis that's real, built with Lovecraftian monsters. 1:44:45.439 --> 1:44:50.040 Novels from Pension and Vonnegut are referenced. This is the 1:44:50.240 --> 1:44:53.240 kind of stuff that will blow your mind and probably 1:44:53.360 --> 1:44:56.240 heard it more than just a little. These books are 1:44:56.560 --> 1:45:01.639 extremely important to some of our favorite writers and TV writers. 1:45:01.720 --> 1:45:06.439 Damon Lindelof, You'll see elements of this in Lost in Fringe. 1:45:06.520 --> 1:45:08.879 You see this from Chris Carter in The X Files. 1:45:09.640 --> 1:45:13.439 Alan Moore has called Robert Anton Wilson an inspiration. We 1:45:13.560 --> 1:45:16.880 see this also from people like Grant Morrison, and now 1:45:17.479 --> 1:45:20.640 with the rise of what may be the Illuminati in 1:45:20.720 --> 1:45:24.599 our new doctor Strange trailer. We know that this may 1:45:24.680 --> 1:45:28.479 be the origin of that term coming back into the 1:45:28.640 --> 1:45:32.880 narrative once again. So check out these books. They're great. 1:45:33.120 --> 1:45:34.439 You will absolutely love them. 1:45:34.720 --> 1:45:36.479 Thanks Dave for submitting. If you want to be featured, 1:45:36.520 --> 1:45:38.280 send your nerd out pitch to x Ray at cricket 1:45:38.320 --> 1:45:43.040 dot com instructions or in the show notes. Big thank 1:45:43.120 --> 1:45:44.880 you to Dave for his nerd out and of course 1:45:45.000 --> 1:45:48.560 Nikola Griffith for joining us, and of course for the 1:45:48.640 --> 1:45:52.599 great Rosie Knight for co hosting this podcast today. It's 1:45:52.640 --> 1:45:56.120 been a wonderful day of discussions that I hope are 1:45:56.200 --> 1:45:58.720 meaningful to some people. Rosie, it is plug time. What 1:45:58.840 --> 1:45:59.439 are we plug in? 1:46:00.360 --> 1:46:02.280 It's me. You can find me. 1:46:02.800 --> 1:46:07.320 I'm back after two seconds. You can find me Rosie 1:46:07.360 --> 1:46:13.280 marks on Instagram. I recently visited a very incredible community 1:46:13.360 --> 1:46:17.800 cinema called Vidiots that's being built in in La I've 1:46:17.880 --> 1:46:20.599 got a little fundraiser running through my Instagram, so feel 1:46:20.640 --> 1:46:21.720 free to go there and learn a. 1:46:21.760 --> 1:46:23.960 Little bit more. I'll have a big feature coming up 1:46:24.040 --> 1:46:27.519 about them at Nerdict. It's a really incredible space that's 1:46:27.560 --> 1:46:29.240 going to be a video store where you can actually 1:46:29.320 --> 1:46:32.160 rent DVDs and blu rays, as well as a community 1:46:32.240 --> 1:46:35.120 cinema that will have a space for local people to 1:46:35.720 --> 1:46:39.120 screen films, to speak to talk to know each other, 1:46:39.200 --> 1:46:43.080 and it will have a huge, beautiful screen to screen movies. 1:46:43.840 --> 1:46:48.320 Vidiots is continuing like this unbelievable legacy of female owned 1:46:48.479 --> 1:46:51.120 female helm video store in Santa Monica that's been there 1:46:51.120 --> 1:46:53.800 since the eighties, So just generally good stuff. So go 1:46:54.000 --> 1:46:56.559 check out Vidiots. Support them. They're in the support mode 1:46:57.080 --> 1:46:59.240 at the moment because they're still building the new location. 1:47:00.240 --> 1:47:02.800 So yeah, that's that's my big pluck it. It was 1:47:03.080 --> 1:47:03.599 very cool. 1:47:04.000 --> 1:47:06.800 I'm really excited for videots, and it seems like it's 1:47:06.840 --> 1:47:10.120 such a really wonderful project to get behind and that 1:47:10.240 --> 1:47:13.439 already has like a lot of really wonderful people supporting it. 1:47:13.520 --> 1:47:18.080 That's a cool one. Check out our videos on the 1:47:18.200 --> 1:47:21.719 Uncultured YouTube channel. Catch the next episode April twenty second, 1:47:21.760 --> 1:47:25.760 when we'll be revisiting WandaVision and anticipation. This is gonna 1:47:25.760 --> 1:47:28.320 be really fun. I'm excited to rewatch WandaVision and I'm 1:47:28.360 --> 1:47:31.599 excited to talk about it because the Multiverse of Madness 1:47:31.680 --> 1:47:33.960 is coming, folks. Doctor Stranger in the multiverseit of Madness, 1:47:34.000 --> 1:47:36.280 which I think we both expect to see a lot 1:47:36.360 --> 1:47:39.280 of the repercussions of the events of WandaVision in that movie. 1:47:39.400 --> 1:47:41.040 Be sure to send out your nerd out submissions to 1:47:41.120 --> 1:47:43.519 x raycrookd dot com instructures during the show notes and 1:47:43.600 --> 1:47:46.120 don't forget we love the five star ratings, folks. We 1:47:46.160 --> 1:47:48.519 love them, We absolutely love them. We thrive on them. 1:47:48.600 --> 1:47:51.160 Please send us the five star ratings. If you're thinking 1:47:51.200 --> 1:47:54.160 about like a four, don't even think about it. Give 1:47:54.240 --> 1:47:56.080 us a five. We need the five. 1:47:56.320 --> 1:47:56.639 Baby. 1:47:57.040 --> 1:47:58.840 X ray Vision is a Crooked Media production. The show 1:47:58.920 --> 1:48:00.639 is produced by Chris Lord and rub In. The show 1:48:00.720 --> 1:48:03.639 is executive produced by myself and Sandys Rhard are editing 1:48:03.680 --> 1:48:07.160 in sound design, news by Vascilla's Fatopoulos, Dellan Villanueva and 1:48:07.280 --> 1:48:10.000 Matta Group provide video production support, and Alex Rella for 1:48:10.160 --> 1:48:13.120 handle social media. Thank you Brian Vasquez for theme music. 1:48:13.640 --> 1:48:13.960 Bye