Speaker 1: Welcome to Movie Crush, a production of I Heart Radio. Hey, everybody,
Speaker 1: welcome to Movie Crush Friday. Uh, Filmmaker edition with Ben
Speaker 1: Harrison of Greatest Gin, Friendly Fire? What else, Greatest Discovery,
Speaker 1: Greatest Discovery. Of course that's the latest iteration of your
Speaker 1: Star Trek podcast. Yeah, we're reviewing a Star Trek piccard
Speaker 1: right now. How's that going on? Oh? Man, I really
Speaker 1: like the show. Is having a lot of fun watching it. Um, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think, I mean it's ah, there's only ten episode
Speaker 1: of it, and I'm and I think we've as of
Speaker 1: this recording, we've reviewed seven and uh, I'm already sad
Speaker 1: that we're almost out. So it's a limited series. I
Speaker 1: mean it's this is season one, so it's coming back.
Speaker 1: It's already been renewed. But uh, but yeah, it's like
Speaker 1: this modern television thing where instead of making twenty six
Speaker 1: episodes of a season and make ten or thirteen, Yeah,
Speaker 1: which is you know, let's be honest, it's not great
Speaker 1: for you, sex for me, it's uh, it's putting me
Speaker 1: out of house and home. See if we can get
Speaker 1: some more Epps going next season, guys. Um, yeah, but
Speaker 1: you know, Star Trek was a kind of a limited
Speaker 1: resource when we started podcasting about it, and it is
Speaker 1: no longer there. They've announced that Discovery is renewed through
Speaker 1: season five, so there there's a lot of new stuff
Speaker 1: coming and uh and that's good. No, forgive me, but
Speaker 1: did you guys ever do anything with all the original stuff?
Speaker 1: We have reviewed a couple of original series episodes on
Speaker 1: Greatest Discovery, because especially with Discovery, they go back and
Speaker 1: reference things from past episodes because I guess Discovery is
Speaker 1: set a little bit before the events of original series.
Speaker 1: Oh no, ship, it's a prequel. Yeah, it's kind of
Speaker 1: a prequel. And uh, well so yeah, seasons one and
Speaker 1: two are prequel and then uh, through events that I
Speaker 1: shan't spoil that the next season will not be set
Speaker 1: in the same timeline. Um, but we've we've gotten We've
Speaker 1: gone back and kind of done our homework on a
Speaker 1: couple of t O S episodes because that's uh, Adam
Speaker 1: and my star Trek is TNG. So that's that's where
Speaker 1: we started. What are all these letters podcasts the original series?
Speaker 1: And TN is the Next Generation? Is this how the
Speaker 1: nerds refer to it? Yeah, that's how we refer to it.
Speaker 1: Chuck Yeah, but you didn't start out as a Star
Speaker 1: Trek nerd. That's not why you did it, is it.
Speaker 1: I mean I started out as a person who really
Speaker 1: liked Star Trek. I don't know. I don't, I don't.
Speaker 1: It's a calling yourself a Christian, you know, it's like
Speaker 1: it seems a little presumptuous, like I'm not saying I'm
Speaker 1: christ like I'm saying I like the works of Gene Roddenberry. Okay, well,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do a podcast about the Christianity prequel. Okay, wow,
Speaker 1: it's called it's called the Torah whoa Burn? Uh, it's
Speaker 1: called total Darkness because there was nothing else. Dude, Chuck,
Speaker 1: did you just call for burning Tora's I don't think
Speaker 1: I can keep on keep going with this podcast, all right,
Speaker 1: see you later. Good episode. Uh. We're recording remotely everyone,
Speaker 1: because we don't want to die. Yeah. We're socially distancing,
Speaker 1: even in podcast form. We are socially distancing because you
Speaker 1: are in Los Angeles where you make your home. Yes,
Speaker 1: is here, winsome and charming wife, I do. Uh. Hopefully,
Speaker 1: if if our summer hangs aren't canceled due to the virus,
Speaker 1: you'll you'll get to hang out with her this summer
Speaker 1: in the lake house. That's right, that's gonna be. Uh.
Speaker 1: I feel like everything is up in the fucking air
Speaker 1: right now. It really feels like that, you know. I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't think I'm not like going down the road
Speaker 1: where I think, like, you know, ten million people are
Speaker 1: gonna die. My father's is uh is saying a billion
Speaker 1: to anyone who will listen to him. So that's really comforting.
Speaker 1: It's funny. Mean, I just saw go ahead. He's like
Speaker 1: a you know, a guy that he's like an old
Speaker 1: guy that watches the television, you know, the twenty four
Speaker 1: hour television news networks way too much for health health.
Speaker 1: So that's where he's getting that number. We'll been. There
Speaker 1: are some people that say, a a thinning of the herd,
Speaker 1: as it were, it's good for the planet, an over
Speaker 1: burdened planet that we already have. You know what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: that's a pretty maccab approach to climate change. Uh, well, Nana,
Speaker 1: not climate change. I'm talking about this pandemic. What do
Speaker 1: you you've been talking about climate change? I'm saying. I'm saying,
Speaker 1: if you're if if a thinning of the herd is
Speaker 1: good for the planet. It's not good for the people
Speaker 1: that got thinned. Oh sure, okay, let's see what you mean.
Speaker 1: I got you. Well, you know Bonnie Prince Billy has
Speaker 1: a song about that that basically says, even when humans
Speaker 1: are gone, that's it's still not the end of anything.
Speaker 1: We just think it is. Yeah, the earth continues right, well,
Speaker 1: talking about something more uplifting speaking, Yes, let's let's talk
Speaker 1: about this hell Allegory movie. All right, so we're talking
Speaker 1: about Barton Fink. This is our continuation, folks of the
Speaker 1: Coen Brothers film series. Yeah, quick sides, people will here.
Speaker 1: We skipped the Miller's Crossing Raising Arizona right because has
Speaker 1: Ben Acker stole My Miller's Crossing episode? Who stole My
Speaker 1: Raising Arizona episode? Deck Shepherd? You want to start ship
Speaker 1: with him? Yeah? I saw that at the at the
Speaker 1: fish Market one time, which which one uh Seattle los
Speaker 1: los feless I forget what it's called a Yeah, they
Speaker 1: probably live around there. They seem like Los feless types. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I should have. I should have challenged him to an
Speaker 1: old timey boxing match, a pugilist sparking. Yeah, Marcus of
Speaker 1: Queensberry rules played them some sweet chin music. I think
Speaker 1: I's got a glass gin. You would have had no problem.
Speaker 1: But I can't throw a punch to save my life.
Speaker 1: I've never had so I don't even know. I've beat
Speaker 1: people up in my dreams. Does that count? They? Speaking
Speaker 1: of dreams, let's talk about this dream allegory film well
Speaker 1: before we do, I have a quick side story. I
Speaker 1: was just on a little um and people of movie
Speaker 1: crush Land will probably here this twice because I will
Speaker 1: probably talk about it again on a mini crush. But
Speaker 1: I just went on a little buddy trip with my
Speaker 1: best friend Eddie to see to travel to three cities
Speaker 1: to see Bonnie Prince Billy saying the aforementioned musician play
Speaker 1: shows with Jonathan Richmond. So we went to d C
Speaker 1: Philly in New York, and in New York at the
Speaker 1: Town Hall, standing outside, Ethan Cohen right next to me,
Speaker 1: No kidding, which is obviously a big one for both
Speaker 1: of us, like huge, huge level. They'd be like Alexander
Speaker 1: Pain or Paul Thomas Anderson or you know, do you
Speaker 1: feel confident that you know the difference between Joel and
Speaker 1: Ethan so competent? Okay, because I don't. I don't think.
Speaker 1: I think I've seen them in interviews always together, so
Speaker 1: I don't know that I that's how they get you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like I think I would be, like, it's one of
Speaker 1: the Cohen brothers, either Joel or Ethan, tall, dark haired
Speaker 1: gentleman married to Free mcdormant. Ethan is the shorter kind
Speaker 1: of Yeah, I think I know that intellectually, but my
Speaker 1: instinct is that it's the opposite. Like when I've got there,
Speaker 1: I've got my my biography of the Cohen Brothers here
Speaker 1: next to me, written by Ronald Bergen. It's good, It's
Speaker 1: it's early. It came out pretty early in their career.
Speaker 1: This is like a book I picked up at the
Speaker 1: Strand for like a dollar and a half back when
Speaker 1: I lived in New York, and it goes up through
Speaker 1: like not much further past uh the Big Lebowski. But
Speaker 1: I read I reread the chapter on Barton Fink last
Speaker 1: night and uh, yeah, there's just a picture of the
Speaker 1: two of them on the cover, and uh, And I
Speaker 1: was I was thinking to myself, if I ever met
Speaker 1: one of these guys, I would be embarrassed to say
Speaker 1: I wasn't sure which one. Well, you just say, Mr
Speaker 1: Cohen in your cover. So I see him out there.
Speaker 1: I'm not the kind of guy that would well, actually
Speaker 1: kind of in that guy that would just literally say hi,
Speaker 1: I love your work. But I was a little inebriated,
Speaker 1: so I was like, I'm just gonna be cool here. Uh.
Speaker 1: Ten minutes later, I'm in the drink line and he
Speaker 1: and his wife are walking by me, and she looks
Speaker 1: at me right in the face and says, is this
Speaker 1: the drink line? That was really long? And I was
Speaker 1: at the front of and I said, instead of saying
Speaker 1: it is, but boy, I would love to buy you
Speaker 1: and your husband a drink. Just jump right in here.
Speaker 1: I said, yep, it's the drink line. And I've been
Speaker 1: mad for three fucking days. Is oh man, that was
Speaker 1: my chance? That was that was your chance. You You
Speaker 1: could have painted the town red with his blood. Yes,
Speaker 1: you could have murdered, taken him back to your hotel,
Speaker 1: woken up next to his lifeless body. Oh look at you.
Speaker 1: They're on their movie refs in there. So anyway that happened.
Speaker 1: And I'm sure in his mind, of course, he didn't
Speaker 1: think about it at all, but in his mind he
Speaker 1: would have thought, boy, I'm glad that guy didn't buy
Speaker 1: me in jurnks. Anyone I had to make small talk
Speaker 1: for two minutes with him, he would have told me
Speaker 1: about his podcast. I would not have done that. I
Speaker 1: that would be the most obnoxious route to take with
Speaker 1: that conversation, don't you know. Well, it's it's interesting because
Speaker 1: you your podcast is about being a film buff and
Speaker 1: I think that this movie is is really like kind
Speaker 1: of they're the peak of their film buffery being shown
Speaker 1: and in their work, and so yeah, this is like
Speaker 1: incredibly deep cut film nerds stuff that they're referencing here. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it is. Um, I mean, let's just dive in. Um.
Speaker 1: My uh story with this film is I saw it
Speaker 1: in the movie theater with one of my other best friends, Jim,
Speaker 1: and then um, when it came out on VHS when
Speaker 1: I was in college. My other friend Eddie, who just
Speaker 1: went on this trip with us, we probably watched Barton
Speaker 1: Fink twenty five times in the couple of years that
Speaker 1: we lived together, no joke. That's uh. That is far
Speaker 1: more than the FDA recommended a lot. Man, it was
Speaker 1: a big one for us. Man. We and you know
Speaker 1: how it has been college when you have the VHS's
Speaker 1: line around, You've got like twelve of them, so you
Speaker 1: end up watching all those movies memorize, memorized the ones
Speaker 1: that you've got. Yeah, but it had been a long
Speaker 1: time since i'd seen it, so it was cool to
Speaker 1: revisit What's what's your story with it? I think it
Speaker 1: was it was just a yeah, picked that but at
Speaker 1: the movie rental at one point in college. And I
Speaker 1: never really realized what a big impact it had when
Speaker 1: it first came out, because I think, like Miller's Crossing
Speaker 1: had not been a huge box office success for them,
Speaker 1: and then this movie went to con and got Best Director,
Speaker 1: Best Picture, and Best Actor, which had never happened before,
Speaker 1: and it was like one of these prestige films that
Speaker 1: that really, like you know, had had a moment in
Speaker 1: the culture. And I think I was too young to
Speaker 1: be aware of things like that, so it just didn't
Speaker 1: It didn't register for me until I was in college later. Yeah,
Speaker 1: here we go with I was curious about the box
Speaker 1: office once he said that, still not much about six
Speaker 1: million bucks. This is before they were household names, though,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, they were right. They were certainly
Speaker 1: the delight of me and my friends and like college
Speaker 1: film buffs and you know, coastal elites. But they, I mean,
Speaker 1: Fargo is what really broke them up. And right, yeah, well,
Speaker 1: and I think, uh, you know, the independent film world
Speaker 1: hadn't hadn't really like grown and you know, like the
Speaker 1: there were obviously independent films going back to the beginning
Speaker 1: of cinema, but this, you know there there wasn't as
Speaker 1: much of a like an industry around it back then.
Speaker 1: You can go and say it was pre Sereal. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was before Cereal invented podcasting. I'm looking at the
Speaker 1: order here, Barton Fink and then Hudsucker, which we'll get
Speaker 1: to next. Yeah, um, and then Fargo. Fargo was always
Speaker 1: earlier than I think because it feels like late Coen
Speaker 1: Brothers to me, because I had seen all those other
Speaker 1: films well, and it was such a break for them too,
Speaker 1: because it's Miller's us saying Barton Fink, Hudsucker are all
Speaker 1: these kind of period pieces, are about a certain moment
Speaker 1: in American life. They're about like kind of class signifiers
Speaker 1: that we don't really have anymore. They're all these all
Speaker 1: these like things that are are like somewhat alien to
Speaker 1: us now, but are are fun to like revisit, whereas
Speaker 1: Fargo has just set in the present. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: that was looking now in blood simple as obviously was
Speaker 1: the present for the time Raising Arizona was, but it
Speaker 1: was also a movie kind of weirdly that didn't feel
Speaker 1: time specific at all. It's kind of a temporal Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's the word. Uh. And then yeah, three in a
Speaker 1: row that we're set. What I mean, what is this thirties?
Speaker 1: I think it's one, right, because there's the scene where
Speaker 1: the where the film executive has his his colonel uniform
Speaker 1: and and he's like, this hasn't gotten three yet, A
Speaker 1: just had costume with this. Yeah, and of course the
Speaker 1: USO dance later come on, give the Navy a spin.
Speaker 1: That great scene. Yeah, And that's like that scene is
Speaker 1: so wild to me because it it's it sort of
Speaker 1: feels somewhere in between a real scene and a dream sequence,
Speaker 1: like yeah, there's no there's no warning that he is
Speaker 1: likely to go to a USO dance, there's no there's
Speaker 1: no context for it that they don't there's no like,
Speaker 1: you know, newsreel footage cut into like give you you know,
Speaker 1: a sense of time where like the us has decided
Speaker 1: to enter the war or anything. He's just he's just
Speaker 1: like finishes his script and then he's dancing at a
Speaker 1: USO dance A great dance too. It's that's always been
Speaker 1: any and I don't dance much at all, but anytime
Speaker 1: I've had a few and I'm at a wedding or something,
Speaker 1: I will pull out a couple of the Barton moves
Speaker 1: to the delight of no one. I'm a podcaster. How
Speaker 1: do things that are important? Oh man, it's so good.
Speaker 1: Uh people in brown suits. And I remember there was
Speaker 1: a joke about Hudsucker about something about big and brown,
Speaker 1: and I think it may have been after these two films,
Speaker 1: the studio was like, don't use any more brown and
Speaker 1: scale it back, and he said something about setting out
Speaker 1: to make the biggest brownest movie they could. I guess
Speaker 1: Brown's had a great cinema color. I don't know. I
Speaker 1: love it, ove me two. I mean this this movie
Speaker 1: really does have a palette, and it it feels like
Speaker 1: it almost like inspires some later French cinema with how
Speaker 1: gross it gets, like the the gooey noess of the
Speaker 1: of the wallpaper glue coming down the walls. Like it
Speaker 1: feels like, uh, that's the guy that directed Emily. It
Speaker 1: feels like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, super interested in walls
Speaker 1: that were covered in goo. Yeah, well who did do Emily?
Speaker 1: That was one of the brothers, right that I just mentioned,
Speaker 1: did you know? And Caro am I wrong? H it's
Speaker 1: the same guy that did Alien four Jesus. I just
Speaker 1: looked up Emily and it was Amelia the very bad
Speaker 1: Amelia Earhart biopic Jean Pierre Janet. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's
Speaker 1: it because they were the same guys who did Delicatessen,
Speaker 1: which also had a bunch of gross. Yeah. Moisture, yeah,
Speaker 1: gross moisture is is really a watchword in there in
Speaker 1: there of the um. Yeah, I mean this is a
Speaker 1: like an early example of that as far as I
Speaker 1: can tell. And uh and and yeah, very brown, very
Speaker 1: like very unpleasant seeming. You sort of wonder, like, what
Speaker 1: is what is motivating Barton? Because he doesn't he has
Speaker 1: the opportunity to move to a nice hotel when he
Speaker 1: first arrives in Hollywood and it doesn't doesn't take it.
Speaker 1: But he also it's not because he like doesn't I
Speaker 1: feel like he deserves it or anything like he he
Speaker 1: thinks a lot of himself, but and and but he
Speaker 1: has I mean it's and it's it's not this like
Speaker 1: delusion that he's like, uh, you know, obsessed with the
Speaker 1: plight of the common man. He doesn't want to live
Speaker 1: like the common man. He wants to write about the
Speaker 1: common man. Yeah, that's interesting. Um, I was I'd seen
Speaker 1: this movie so many times and I just kind of
Speaker 1: know it by heart, and it never really occurred to
Speaker 1: me until the other night on what an obnoxious character
Speaker 1: he is. Yeah. I think I just loved the movie
Speaker 1: so much. I didn't stop to think the fact that
Speaker 1: their protagonist was. I mean, you're rooting for him, but
Speaker 1: he's awful that he's the last guy you want to
Speaker 1: be stuck to a next to at a party. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like part of like, like John Goodman's character feels super dangerous,
Speaker 1: but you kind of love him because he is willing
Speaker 1: to sit there despite how obnoxious Spartan is. The first
Speaker 1: like three times they hang out, uh huh. Well, and
Speaker 1: he says that at the end, you know you don't listen.
Speaker 1: That's sort of the thing right there. Yeah, he wants
Speaker 1: to write about the common man, but he's just from
Speaker 1: that distance perspective, I think, Yeah, he's like he's naive
Speaker 1: and he doesn't know he's naive, right, Yeah, Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: a good way saying it that he can he can
Speaker 1: both hold it in his mind that he wants to
Speaker 1: be the playwright of the common man, but also have
Speaker 1: no interest in you know, like like he the way
Speaker 1: he talks to the common man, who he imagines John
Speaker 1: Goodman is is so dismissive. So yeah, so so insulting. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean he's Goodman is constantly saying in that first meeting, boy,
Speaker 1: I could tell you some stories, and and a true
Speaker 1: artist who was really interested in that would immediately reply
Speaker 1: with why I'd love to hear are some of those
Speaker 1: stories I could really help inform my work? Hold on,
Speaker 1: let me grab my notebook. I need I need wrestling
Speaker 1: stories specifically, and John Goodman has them to offer Big
Speaker 1: Ben in Tights. Um. It also struck me the other
Speaker 1: day how funny it is that the Coen Brothers, at
Speaker 1: some point, and you know that, I'm sure you know
Speaker 1: the backstory, but for the benefit of the listener, when
Speaker 1: they got writer's block, which I just demonstrated, when they
Speaker 1: got writer's block writing Miller's Crossing, they stopped for like
Speaker 1: two weeks or something and knocked the script out. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like this, this ironically was the script that cleared the
Speaker 1: writer's block for them. They just burped it out. They said, yeah,
Speaker 1: some people go on a walk, they wrote a movie,
Speaker 1: they write a cinematic masterpiece. Yeah exactly. But at some point, um,
Speaker 1: one of them looked at the other and said, you know,
Speaker 1: let's write a story about a big play play right
Speaker 1: in New York that thinks a lot of himself. It
Speaker 1: gets moved out to l A to write movies, and
Speaker 1: he moves next door to a serial killer. Like that's
Speaker 1: the premise of the film. Yeah, the um, it's it's
Speaker 1: very not there their experience like there. I read a
Speaker 1: quote from them saying like, yeah, like we've actually had
Speaker 1: kind of a really easy time in Hollywood, like once
Speaker 1: we got our first movie done, like we've never had
Speaker 1: any trouble getting getting to keep making movies, which you know,
Speaker 1: many directors get a few movies and then they have
Speaker 1: one that doesn't do well at the box office and
Speaker 1: they get put in movie jail and they never come back.
Speaker 1: And the Coen Brothers like very emphatically did not have
Speaker 1: Barton Fink's experience like that, this is not a you know,
Speaker 1: semi autobiographical tale by any extent. Yeah, but it was
Speaker 1: a movie that supposedly was based on and I didn't
Speaker 1: know much of this stuff until I kind of dove
Speaker 1: back in. But a playwright named Clifford Odets, which is
Speaker 1: I'm sure you saw that stuff too, Yeah, and and
Speaker 1: kind of taking a lot of elements out of the
Speaker 1: timeline because there was this like theater movement in the
Speaker 1: thirties in New York that has a lot to do
Speaker 1: with what parton Fink talks about the theater of the
Speaker 1: common man, of vernacular theater that uh, you know, would
Speaker 1: have been really well established by the time the events
Speaker 1: of this movie take place. But this this movie doesn't
Speaker 1: really take place in real history, you know. Yeah, although
Speaker 1: they do pepper it with you know, thinly veiled characters
Speaker 1: of of real people at the time. Obviously, well no
Speaker 1: one knows, not many people know about Clifford Adets, But
Speaker 1: clearly John C. Mahoney is is William Faulkner spent off right.
Speaker 1: He even looks just like him. Yeah, And I think
Speaker 1: the I think that the movie that he's got on
Speaker 1: his on the door of his bungalow slave ship is
Speaker 1: the name of it, a film that Faulkner actually wrote
Speaker 1: on Hollywood. Yeah, Man, how good is John Mahoney in
Speaker 1: this movie? He's great, He's uh, he's a lot like
Speaker 1: I feel like there's a temptation to take that character
Speaker 1: and go really big with it. And the only time
Speaker 1: he's really super big is when he's off screen, when
Speaker 1: he's like screaming in the in a room that you
Speaker 1: can't see him in. Where's my honey? Yeah, Like he's
Speaker 1: he's pretty subtle, despite um, despite like that temptation. I
Speaker 1: think I thought that that was It's one of my
Speaker 1: favorite characters in the film. Just like you know, he
Speaker 1: like he's totally stripped of dignity by the end of
Speaker 1: it when he's like, you know, it's revealed that he's
Speaker 1: basically like not even the author that he claims to be.
Speaker 1: Man W P. William Phony Mayhew so many great lines,
Speaker 1: and he did write a wrestling movie to Faulkner wrote
Speaker 1: a or at least worked on a wrestling movie called Flesh. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's starred Wallace Beery, who was the real actor that
Speaker 1: they said that Barton was writing for. Does So here's
Speaker 1: a question that maybe you know the answer to like
Speaker 1: it was there in the thirties and forties, like a
Speaker 1: big market for wrestling pictures or is that is that
Speaker 1: kind of like is that part of the like synthesized
Speaker 1: reality here. I think it's probably kind of real. I mean,
Speaker 1: if there was a movie called Flesh about a German wrestler,
Speaker 1: it would not surprise because you know how they were
Speaker 1: making movies at the time. They didn't they didn't make
Speaker 1: a movie. They were like, let's make seventies, right and
Speaker 1: see what happens, right, And and that's like like the
Speaker 1: the executive character that is like he's so um he
Speaker 1: has no like actual respect for the art form. You know,
Speaker 1: he's like, uh Jack Lipnick. He he just talks about
Speaker 1: you know, like we got a war picture, a Bible
Speaker 1: picture of wrestling picture, like it's it's it's just inventory
Speaker 1: for him. It's it's it's he considers these things to
Speaker 1: be like basically commodities, depending on who he's talking to
Speaker 1: or like what part of the sentence he's in, because
Speaker 1: he also claims to, you know, love the writer above
Speaker 1: all other you know, all other creatives. The writer's kissing
Speaker 1: king at Capital Pictures, kissing partner thinks a Shoe so great,
Speaker 1: one of my favorites. Uh, and he was. He was
Speaker 1: so great. Um, Jack Lipnick like one of the great
Speaker 1: characters and all of their movies I think. And Michael
Speaker 1: Lerner just fucking fantastic. Uh I think was he in?
Speaker 1: Um it seems like he did something else with them.
Speaker 1: I know they re use actors a lot. Yeah, there's
Speaker 1: kind of the the Coen brother stable of actors to
Speaker 1: Turo and Goodman here in in a pre Lebowski pairing.
Speaker 1: Oh I see back first serious man much later in there. Okay,
Speaker 1: that's right. Yeah. And the great John Polido, the late
Speaker 1: great John Polido, who just passed away a few years ago,
Speaker 1: as Lou. Oh, I didn't. I didn't realize he'd passed.
Speaker 1: That's too bad. Yeah, he think he died in like,
Speaker 1: um just and he was. He's been in a bunch
Speaker 1: of Collen Brothers movies. One of the great character actors.
Speaker 1: And as as Lou, Yeah, used used to own some
Speaker 1: shares in the company. No longer so great, but like
Speaker 1: maybe the character with the least dignity of anyone in
Speaker 1: this in this film. Yeah, and it's funny because he's
Speaker 1: the one he gets so called out in that meeting
Speaker 1: because he translates what is the correct translation, which is,
Speaker 1: you know, you're the property of Capital Pictures. You really
Speaker 1: need to sort of tell us what's going on here,
Speaker 1: And he's right, and he gets so totally sold out,
Speaker 1: son of a bitch. Uh and then he's just back
Speaker 1: in the next scene like that. It was entirely for
Speaker 1: Burton's benefit and not real We get a very young
Speaker 1: Steve Bashimi. It's one of the first times I remember
Speaker 1: seeing him. I think, is Jet within exclamation point, I'm
Speaker 1: chet uh yeah, the I'm just distracted by this cast list.
Speaker 1: So many of these people were also in Star Trek things,
Speaker 1: so really it always leaps out to me. Yeah. The
Speaker 1: the guy that works the clapper in the in the
Speaker 1: when he gets to see the rushes of the other
Speaker 1: wrestling pictures is Max Garden Chick who played rom on
Speaker 1: Deep Space nine. I didn't realize that didn't didn't recognize
Speaker 1: him because he's usually he's usually got a bunch of
Speaker 1: prosthetic makeup to make him look like a FERENGHI, so,
Speaker 1: uh well, a young touch Euro as well. Um, John
Speaker 1: Goodman fantastic learner. Um, you've got Judy Davis is Audrey,
Speaker 1: who just I had such a big crush on her
Speaker 1: still do. Yeah, she's a She's a delight. Um. It's
Speaker 1: these are all actors that are still with us too,
Speaker 1: Like the the the careers have really like developed and grown.
Speaker 1: But I think John Goodman was the only like really
Speaker 1: really really famous person in this right, yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: come to think of it, to Turo, this is sort
Speaker 1: of before everyone, you're right, had had become more household names,
Speaker 1: even you know, my favorite character in the film has
Speaker 1: been Geisler Tony and it was the first thing that
Speaker 1: I had seen Tony Shalubin and my friend Jim and
Speaker 1: I Jim got to know him and then hooked me
Speaker 1: up for a movie crush interview with him, and and
Speaker 1: I just fond. I was like, man, I said, I'm
Speaker 1: such a fan, but I said, been ben. Geisler is
Speaker 1: one of the great great all time Cohen Brothers characters.
Speaker 1: So great every both of the scenes are so great.
Speaker 1: He has so much range too, because like he can
Speaker 1: play the he can play monk, and he can play
Speaker 1: like a you know, like a cop or whatever. But he,
Speaker 1: like this character is like is so big and brassy
Speaker 1: and he's amazing yeah, I think he said that. There
Speaker 1: was just I think they, the Coen Brothers are just like,
Speaker 1: you cannot go big enough for us in this role,
Speaker 1: so just just chew it up. And that that one
Speaker 1: great opening line when he gets and he rings up
Speaker 1: lipnic or lou Hey, lou How's lipnics as mell this
Speaker 1: morning so great. One of the great fake phone calls
Speaker 1: in movie history. I think, real screwy. Yeah, I got
Speaker 1: this right here, real screwy. Alright, no, alright, ship okay, alright. No.
Speaker 1: The use of the word no to mean yes, it's
Speaker 1: like it is all through this movie. Anytime somebody means yes,
Speaker 1: there they say no, no, no, no, okay no. Yeah.
Speaker 1: They do that a lot. And then Barton also has
Speaker 1: that great part um towards the end when Judy Davis
Speaker 1: dies yeah and he goes to the door and he
Speaker 1: nods yes and says no. Even they do that thing
Speaker 1: where they they do recurring dialogue, like repeating dialogue. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's really interesting. That's something that I first noticed in Lebowski,
Speaker 1: like the way like the you know, when he's like
Speaker 1: watching the TV at the beginning and George George H. W.
Speaker 1: Bush is saying this unchecked aggression against Iraq will not stand.
Speaker 1: And then Lebowski like two scenes later, going like this
Speaker 1: unchecked aggression will not stand. Man. Yeah, they're they're obsessed
Speaker 1: with that idea that that like that idea of picking
Speaker 1: up little kind of memes of culture and and then
Speaker 1: repeating them later. And it's always it's always a subtle thing,
Speaker 1: but I love it. Yeah, it's one of my favorites.
Speaker 1: Chet and introduces himself like three or four times in
Speaker 1: that opening scene. My name is Chet. I'm Chet. And
Speaker 1: then at the end he writes his name with the
Speaker 1: exclamation point and shoves it across the table. Chet. Judge
Speaker 1: Trow takes the paper, folds it up and puts it
Speaker 1: in his jacket. I'll need this to remember. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: that introductory scene is so great And this is the
Speaker 1: stuff that really occurs to me is what puts the
Speaker 1: Cohens in a different realm of filmmaking and and just
Speaker 1: the reality of a movie is the when Chet is
Speaker 1: introduced and Barton rings that bell and it rings and
Speaker 1: rings and rings, and you hear the steps coming up
Speaker 1: from some cellar below and the thing is still ringing,
Speaker 1: and you think, like, is it even still ringing? And
Speaker 1: then here he touches it with his finger and it's
Speaker 1: like his his nail is so chewed up, like he's
Speaker 1: got he's got real bad uticles. Um. Yeah, I love
Speaker 1: the atmosphere that it strikes in that in that first
Speaker 1: time he's in the hotel is amazing because it's not
Speaker 1: it's it's not the old Hollywood that we imagine, right,
Speaker 1: it doesn't. It doesn't show an exterior with palm trees
Speaker 1: and you know, drop top student bakers. It's it's always
Speaker 1: you're always inside the hotel. And despite the fact that
Speaker 1: the lobby is really cavernous, it also feels like really
Speaker 1: like close and coying. And you know, when he's in
Speaker 1: his room, he can't see anything out the window. There's
Speaker 1: just like a brick wall out there, and you don't
Speaker 1: you know, Hollywood isn't this sunny, open, exciting place for
Speaker 1: Barton Fink. It's it's very it's very closed in and
Speaker 1: it's kind of depicted in the way that New York
Speaker 1: is often depicted in filmed. Totally, it totally reads this
Speaker 1: New York. Um. Obviously they did a lot of this
Speaker 1: for the sense of isolation, but you know, you never
Speaker 1: see anyone in this giant, giant, fucking sort of tenement
Speaker 1: apartment hotel. The lobby is always empty, the hallways are empty.
Speaker 1: Yet there are you know, hundreds of pairs of shoes
Speaker 1: down an endless hallway, but the only person you ever
Speaker 1: see is Chet and Charlie. Yeah. I would. I would
Speaker 1: love to find a hotel that charges twenty five dollars
Speaker 1: a week. I know. I mean I would put up
Speaker 1: with the with the wallpaper coming down the wall like
Speaker 1: that week. I would. I would just keep it. I
Speaker 1: would just you know, like, yeah, let it flow. Yeah, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I keep a room in Minneapolis. It's only twenty five
Speaker 1: bucks a week. Who cares? Um the way Barton two
Speaker 1: or into Turo, the way they developed this character, and
Speaker 1: um his physical traits. You know, he's always kind of
Speaker 1: hunched over and hump backed, and he walks with his
Speaker 1: is it pigeon toed yeah, whereas toes pointing yeah. And
Speaker 1: I think everything about this was a choice, you know,
Speaker 1: they think. The Cohen Brothers are well known for being
Speaker 1: super super specific, Like that finger on the bell was,
Speaker 1: if not Steve Bashimi, someone else who they were like,
Speaker 1: we need to get a really nasty finger, like all
Speaker 1: that ship matters to them. I'm wondering in retrospect, I
Speaker 1: interpreted it as bruised, But I'm wondering in retrospect if
Speaker 1: if if what I was seeing was shoe polish on
Speaker 1: the finger, like like residue from his totally hireless polishing
Speaker 1: of shoes. Yeah. I didn't even notice that that was
Speaker 1: there a black smudge or something. Yeah, I mean his
Speaker 1: finger just looks very discolored. Yeah, it's totally shoe polished.
Speaker 1: That makes a lot of sense. Yeah, I read that
Speaker 1: Umo like spent a lot of time with the Cohen brothers.
Speaker 1: He's spent like a month just hanging around them before
Speaker 1: before they made the film, just to kind of get
Speaker 1: to get their vibe. And that's a level of commitment
Speaker 1: that I really admire. You know, just just develop a
Speaker 1: working relationship, you know, like that's that's not always easy
Speaker 1: to do when you're making a film and you might
Speaker 1: have no rehearsal time built into the schedule or anything. Yeah,
Speaker 1: especially back then, I mean they this movie obviously had it.
Speaker 1: They were starting to get some budgets because they made these,
Speaker 1: you know, pretty impressive period pieces. Yeah, but this this
Speaker 1: film had a third of the budget of Miller's Crossing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this was a big down budget for them. Well, I
Speaker 1: wonder if that is one reason they didn't fill that
Speaker 1: lobby with extras and went with the more uh, because
Speaker 1: I mean there's not a ton of extras in the
Speaker 1: whole movie except for that USO dancing, right, Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: that is the one. There's not a lot of people around.
Speaker 1: Usually they're in an office, Yeah, secretary, there's another person,
Speaker 1: there's lou there's lipnik. But it doesn't feel like cheap
Speaker 1: the way there's there's a lot of you know, independent
Speaker 1: films that don't get the budget to have a lot
Speaker 1: of extras, and and you can you can really feel
Speaker 1: the corners being cut and you you don't in this movie. No,
Speaker 1: they didn't do a lot of exteriors. That's where you
Speaker 1: can save you know, they were clearly hold up on
Speaker 1: a stage somewhere. Yeah, Um, the stage that the hotel
Speaker 1: interiors were built in, the where the you know, the
Speaker 1: hallway and and his room was the the hangar that
Speaker 1: the Spruce Goose was originally in. Yeah, and apparently the
Speaker 1: like it was a real challenge to build this set
Speaker 1: because all of the walls were wired with like gas lines,
Speaker 1: that could be individually turned on and off so that
Speaker 1: you know, when Goodman is running down the hallway, they've
Speaker 1: got guys up on the cat looks above like like
Speaker 1: turning knobs to to engage the gas. It's like some
Speaker 1: special kind of gas that burns a lot cooler than
Speaker 1: you know would or whatever, so they can. I mean,
Speaker 1: they had to rebuild the set every time they did
Speaker 1: another take, but they you know, they didn't want to
Speaker 1: like actually kill the actor. I guess, yeah. I mean
Speaker 1: they clearly put a little money into that ending sequence
Speaker 1: with the fire. Um, but even then they send two detectives.
Speaker 1: It's not um, they're not. They're not. They're a lot
Speaker 1: of the Swat team. No, and they're not a lot
Speaker 1: of exteriors with I mean, there's that one sequence with
Speaker 1: with Mahoney and Judy Davis in clearly Griffith Park, but
Speaker 1: you only see a couple of cards go by, Like
Speaker 1: they're not throwing a ton of money down to recreate
Speaker 1: old Hollywood, And that had to have been a conscious choice. Yeah, right,
Speaker 1: it doesn't. It's there's no romanticism in in the Hollywood
Speaker 1: that Barton Fink comes to. And it it's interesting because
Speaker 1: that conversation he has at the beginning, he's sort of
Speaker 1: He's like, oh, I don't want to go do that, Like,
Speaker 1: you know, Rebel was the famous people and go to
Speaker 1: fancy parties. Like That's not what he winds up doing
Speaker 1: at all, not at all. Like the only like bright
Speaker 1: and well lit places are Lipnicks office and Lipnicks backyard pool. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it's interesting now that I'm thinking about it, they
Speaker 1: finally did kind of scratch that itch if they were
Speaker 1: unable to hear with Hail Caesar, they went really big, Yeah,
Speaker 1: with the great sort of ode to old Hollywood. Right. Yeah, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I've never really thought of this movie and that one
Speaker 1: being connected, but I guess they really are like similar,
Speaker 1: similar time period and everything. Yeah. I wonder if there's
Speaker 1: an Easter Egg or two and Hail Caesar that I
Speaker 1: never picked up on. I bet you there is. We'll
Speaker 1: get to it eventually. Yeah. What was the name of
Speaker 1: the hotel? Earl? Just so many great details, man, And
Speaker 1: I think that's what sets the Coen Brothers apart. Like
Speaker 1: the part where he goes into the room for the
Speaker 1: first time and he looks down at the station an
Speaker 1: airy and rolls the pencil away and there's the spot
Speaker 1: where the dust didn't settle. Yeah, it's that's the stuff
Speaker 1: that puts them over the top. It's so great. The
Speaker 1: the like note for the prop department on that I
Speaker 1: would love to read, you know, yeah, yeah, that would
Speaker 1: have been a fun prop because you just get a
Speaker 1: little die to maceous earth and sprinkle it on a
Speaker 1: page until it looks dusty, yeah, with like a like
Speaker 1: a sieve, Yeah, exactly, and then make sure that pencil
Speaker 1: doesn't move. Yeah, it's great hot set um I read that.
Speaker 1: They also um like that the idea of that of
Speaker 1: that photograph being like the one piece of decoration in
Speaker 1: the room was something that they came up with really
Speaker 1: early on, like like they had conversations like what would
Speaker 1: be in the room, like how how would it feel
Speaker 1: to be in there? And it's sort of become you know,
Speaker 1: because there's a brick wall outside his window, it's kind
Speaker 1: of his only his only view to the outside world.
Speaker 1: And the fact that he never gets to see any
Speaker 1: other parts of the hotel also you know, make you
Speaker 1: feel really isolated in there. But I love I love
Speaker 1: the way that photo kind of becomes his reality in
Speaker 1: the end. Yeah, I mean they bring that back around.
Speaker 1: Uh there at Zooma Beach. If you've seen that stretch
Speaker 1: of beach a gazillion times, yeah, I mean I've shot
Speaker 1: tin TV commercials right there. But it's also, of course
Speaker 1: very famously from Planet of the Apes. Oh no way, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's it, dude. Wow. You can tell because of the
Speaker 1: big rock. There's that big cliff right right, and I
Speaker 1: mean that's the only place you can get that look
Speaker 1: that close to l A Yeah wow. Otherwise you got
Speaker 1: to go up the PC quite a bit damn dirty. Ye. Well,
Speaker 1: I don't have time to go all the way of
Speaker 1: the man. No, let's just shoot it. It's uma. What
Speaker 1: is your thought about the um what happens in this
Speaker 1: film at the end, and sort of the the allegory
Speaker 1: of it all and seeing that woman on the beach
Speaker 1: and the pelican diving in, and do you read too
Speaker 1: much into that or is what it means? I mean
Speaker 1: the I feel like parts of this I like have
Speaker 1: picked up from stuff I have read over the years,
Speaker 1: and maybe I'm not sure how much I can take
Speaker 1: credit forward here, but I guess my read is that
Speaker 1: Goodman is sort of satan and that the like the
Speaker 1: rest of l a are like is you know, it's
Speaker 1: hell like and and when when Goodman is close, it
Speaker 1: gets hot in the hotel and uh and I don't
Speaker 1: know why, like you know why the scene at the
Speaker 1: beach at the end. But but it Barton's life as
Speaker 1: he knew it is is over right, like the like
Speaker 1: he's he's stuck in this contract where they're gonna they're
Speaker 1: just gonna mind him for writing that they don't produce.
Speaker 1: And and somehow he finds himself on this beach with
Speaker 1: the head in the box or the mcguffin in the
Speaker 1: box anyway. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Um, it's like he's
Speaker 1: it's it's like he's trapped in the painting in the
Speaker 1: hotel room. Like he's gone even further into the trap somehow. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think. And in fact now i'm reading because I
Speaker 1: was just thinking it would surprise me for some reason
Speaker 1: if the Cohen Brothers really had a bunch of intention
Speaker 1: behind these symbols. Yeah. I think that they like to
Speaker 1: kind of just the kids. Um. Yeah, there's a lot
Speaker 1: of comparisons made to this from this movie to Kafka,
Speaker 1: and they in this in this biography really reject those comparisons.
Speaker 1: Are like we're we don't. We're not like Kafka. People
Speaker 1: like we don't like I never read much Kafka and
Speaker 1: didn't consciously think about him when we were writing this movie. So, um,
Speaker 1: I think they like the the symbolism is maybe a
Speaker 1: lot less explicitly connected to anything, and it's it's more
Speaker 1: open to interpretation than Kaska. Yeah, for sure. Um. I
Speaker 1: think Ethan or Joel said, because they were asking about
Speaker 1: the symbolism and he said, we never ever go into
Speaker 1: our films with anything like that in mind. He said,
Speaker 1: there's never anything approaching that kind of specific intellectual breakdown.
Speaker 1: It's always just a bunch of instinctive things that feel
Speaker 1: right for whatever reason. Yeah, I think they just have
Speaker 1: their world that they're comfortable in, right, and uh, it
Speaker 1: looks cool to see a hallway on fire. I mean
Speaker 1: they definitely create an alternate reality. Some people think this
Speaker 1: like kind of from the midpoint on when it descends
Speaker 1: into this almost sort of a weird horror movie totally
Speaker 1: is all a dream of Barton's. And of course they
Speaker 1: they wouldn't say that that's the case, but I think
Speaker 1: it is open to interpretation. I like that. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like if you sit and think about like the shot
Speaker 1: where they camera like pans away from the bed and
Speaker 1: goes down the drain hole in the sink, like you
Speaker 1: could you could describe a ton of meaning to that,
Speaker 1: or you could just let it be like this wild
Speaker 1: tripped out moment that happens that it doesn't need to
Speaker 1: necessarily have that much meaning. Well, I mean it's it's
Speaker 1: obviously sort of a not not because I think their
Speaker 1: sense of humor is really kind of you know, twisted
Speaker 1: h and they do things to funk with people. So
Speaker 1: having bar and in the other room beginning to initiate
Speaker 1: the sex or I guess Judy Davis kind of initiates it,
Speaker 1: and then going you know, the shot of either if
Speaker 1: it's not the train going into into the tunnel, they
Speaker 1: literally take a camera into a sinkhole. But then from
Speaker 1: that point on it gets really weird. All those sounds. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it sounds like, uh, I don't know, it sounds
Speaker 1: like people screaming and stuff. Yeah, like like it's it's
Speaker 1: literally like the the slavering masses in in Hell. Right,
Speaker 1: That's sort of where my head went. Anyways, Um, this
Speaker 1: is their first Roger Deakins shot film. That was kind
Speaker 1: of a curveball that they threw him on set, apparently like, hey,
Speaker 1: so in this scene, we want you to set up
Speaker 1: pretty far back and then have the camera plunge down
Speaker 1: the hole in the in the sink drain. And he's like,
Speaker 1: uh okay, right, like and I don't know they have
Speaker 1: like uh, I guess maybe it was on our last
Speaker 1: episode that we talked about what their reputation is like
Speaker 1: to work with that they kind of they're a little
Speaker 1: bit stand offish, and they'll they'll just go off and
Speaker 1: talk to each other in hushed tones off in the
Speaker 1: corner and and that can be a little off putting.
Speaker 1: But Roger Degans apparently just loves working with them and
Speaker 1: had a ton of fun working on this movie. One
Speaker 1: thing he said was that the scenes that they shot
Speaker 1: in the theater where you know it's Burton Fink standing
Speaker 1: in the wings and then going out to accept his
Speaker 1: applause um, they finished that day at even thirty am
Speaker 1: because they've gotten everything they needed and didn't I feel
Speaker 1: like they needed to keep shooting really, so they just
Speaker 1: dismissed everybody from the set. Well, and as you know,
Speaker 1: that is crazy town, like like when you get what
Speaker 1: do you get off work on a film set before
Speaker 1: the twelve hour and more, you're like, yes, yeah, well,
Speaker 1: I mean it's just so inefficient to do that. I'm
Speaker 1: surprised you because usually a director will say, well, you know, ship,
Speaker 1: we got some time, let's try and pick up something
Speaker 1: else at least, right. Uh. Yeah, but I don't know,
Speaker 1: like I guess, uh, this is film number four for them. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they're maybe they were competent at this point. It's at
Speaker 1: four notes five right because blood simple raising Arizona, others crossing.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and then this is number four, number four. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So I don't know, Like like the more season directors
Speaker 1: do like keep you know, like there's there's some famous
Speaker 1: story about somebody seeing Steven Spielberg and the grocery store
Speaker 1: and going like are you making Jurassic Park right now?
Speaker 1: And he's like yes, yeah, Like why are you picking
Speaker 1: through the cucumbers? Yeah? Like how do you how do
Speaker 1: you like, how do you also be like getting groceries tonight? Yeah?
Speaker 1: That's weird. It's like a nine to five, you know,
Speaker 1: for for a certain level of success. Yeah, that is
Speaker 1: very strange. Um, the sound design in this movie too,
Speaker 1: you know, the Coen Brothers are very well known for
Speaker 1: not only their scores, which the score and this is great,
Speaker 1: but just the sound design. Um, the weird choices they make,
Speaker 1: like the the vacuum sound every time a door opens
Speaker 1: and shuts in that hotel. Yeah, there's like different pressure
Speaker 1: on the on the inside versus the outside of Burton
Speaker 1: Finx room. Um. Yeah. And I kept turning my TV
Speaker 1: up a little bit when I was watching this because
Speaker 1: because especially when he likes sticks his head out into
Speaker 1: the hallway to you know, when he hears John Goodman, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, making strange noises in his room, like the Um,
Speaker 1: that stuff is pretty subtle. And um, if you if
Speaker 1: you don't have the TV really cranked, you might miss
Speaker 1: some of it. Yeah. This is a movie that bears
Speaker 1: allowed viewing, um, which you can do because it's not
Speaker 1: especially loud movie. Yeah, there's no explosions that you're gonna
Speaker 1: have to like reach for the remote like turn it down,
Speaker 1: turn Did Rachel watch us with you or no? She
Speaker 1: was she was at work when I watched it. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I kind of wish we had watched it together. Though
Speaker 1: I think this is Uh has seen it. I'm not
Speaker 1: sure if she has. I'll have to ask her. Um.
Speaker 1: Speaking of the down the drain pipe scene, there's the
Speaker 1: other great scene in the USO dance at the very
Speaker 1: end um in that slow mo fight. This choreographed so beautifully,
Speaker 1: and that camera works this way through it and then
Speaker 1: into the horn of the trumpet. Yeah, I love the
Speaker 1: I love that the that he is like the instigating
Speaker 1: He's like the catalyst for a fight between the Navy
Speaker 1: and the Army. Like once he's once he's on the floor,
Speaker 1: all they care about is beating each other up. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's definitely kind of thing where he's like crawling out
Speaker 1: on his hands and knees or something. Um, there's a
Speaker 1: lot of things in this movie that I still do today,
Speaker 1: Like one was the dance thing. Another thing, and this
Speaker 1: is mainly just for the benefit of my friend Eddie.
Speaker 1: He's the only person who ever gets any of him,
Speaker 1: or my friend Jim. But and now you. But I
Speaker 1: still anytime someone hands me a flask, I still turn
Speaker 1: it up for like an impossibly long time, and I
Speaker 1: might even be regulating the flow, so I'm not taking
Speaker 1: like a you know, five shots at once. Just because
Speaker 1: John Mahoney when he's in the bathroom that first needed,
Speaker 1: He tips it up and you just hear that little
Speaker 1: little gurgling sound for like ten seconds. Come come by
Speaker 1: my office later. I've got drinking to do right now, son,
Speaker 1: you are dripping. He's so good. Uh. And some of
Speaker 1: the lines to um, a lot of them are are
Speaker 1: from Tony shalub Um, just classic Cohen Brother's line when
Speaker 1: he's talking about the uh seeing a writer on on
Speaker 1: on the back load or whatever. He's like, Jesus, think
Speaker 1: throw a rock in here, and you'll hit one and
Speaker 1: do me a favor, think throw it odd so great,
Speaker 1: it's so good. It's like it is kind of a
Speaker 1: funny self dunk, like even though this movie isn't really
Speaker 1: about them, like to write an entire movie about like
Speaker 1: about how up his own ass a writer can be.
Speaker 1: And then the derision everybody else has for for writers.
Speaker 1: When when he gets Dollywood, the uh, I'd like even further,
Speaker 1: like the the amount of formula that they talk about
Speaker 1: with each you know, with each kind of movie, like
Speaker 1: it's a wrestling picture. He's gotta have a dame or
Speaker 1: or an orphan that he protects. He's like, which one
Speaker 1: button both maybe which is dame. He's got Dame question
Speaker 1: mark or question market, not this piece of paper later
Speaker 1: and like and like the fact that it is all
Speaker 1: just kind of paint by numbers, like who like it's
Speaker 1: it's you know, you just like fill out the save
Speaker 1: the cat formula and then write the scenes and and
Speaker 1: and that's really like never how the Cohen Brothers have
Speaker 1: have done there have written their stuff, you know, like
Speaker 1: they're they're much more interested in taking it in a
Speaker 1: totally surprising direction that is completely unlike other cinema. And
Speaker 1: uh and I think that that's one of the things
Speaker 1: that I'm really drawn to with their work, is that
Speaker 1: like you don't feel like you like even when even
Speaker 1: when their movies follow like a fairly conventional story arc,
Speaker 1: you know, individual scenes will totally come out of nowhere
Speaker 1: and and you never know what's coming next. Yeah, they're
Speaker 1: real life and their whole point of view is never
Speaker 1: real life, like you said, even if it's said in
Speaker 1: modern times, there's just something that it's a Cohen Brothers
Speaker 1: world still somehow. Yeah, and we're just living in it baby,
Speaker 1: yeah man. Uh And it's a world where, uh, like
Speaker 1: you were saying the disrespect to the writer in Hollywood.
Speaker 1: William Faulkner is a souse. You know, he's not a
Speaker 1: great writer, he's a great souse. I love how many
Speaker 1: times he says souse in that scene because parton just
Speaker 1: keeps going kind of going on, and he just keeps going,
Speaker 1: shaking his head south south. It's one of the great
Speaker 1: words to and that's good good Crossrood puzzle word. Uh.
Speaker 1: In that moment too where Shalub, I mean, I feel
Speaker 1: like I could talk for an hour just on Tony
Speaker 1: Shaloub's two scenes. Um, that moment where he leaps forward
Speaker 1: onto his desk a little bit, yea, where he's talking
Speaker 1: about uh, never make lip Nick like you he's taken
Speaker 1: an interest. Do you realize what that means? Oh my god,
Speaker 1: he's so distraught. And then when he's like, I really
Speaker 1: haven't written anything. Who said right, Jesus, Jack can't read?
Speaker 1: You gotta tell it to him. Jack can't read so
Speaker 1: great man. I wish all their movies were about Hollywood.
Speaker 1: I mean in a lot of ways. I mean not
Speaker 1: all of them are, but all of them are kind
Speaker 1: of yeah, you know, like even even when they're not
Speaker 1: about Hollywood, I feel like they're kind of about movies. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like the you know, the playing with with all of
Speaker 1: your expectations of what a movie Cannon should be. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like I mean far ago, it feels it's like, hey, like, hey,
Speaker 1: you know what if we made a hit film about
Speaker 1: about cops in what is it? Northern Minnesota? Yeah, like
Speaker 1: a kidnapping gone wrong. It's like daring you too not
Speaker 1: care about this movie. Like it almost feels like it's
Speaker 1: it's a it's a issuing a challenge to the audience, Like, right,
Speaker 1: you can't even imagine that this would be an interesting film.
Speaker 1: You would be wrong totally. Um, the movie Barton Fink
Speaker 1: just builds this unease kind of throughout the whole thing,
Speaker 1: this sort of impending doom. And where it really kind
Speaker 1: of um ramps up I think is obviously the second half.
Speaker 1: But that screening room sequence with the wrestling dailies, Yeah,
Speaker 1: so effective somehow. Yeah, like that he is a guy
Speaker 1: that doesn't have much experience with with pictures. He doesn't
Speaker 1: he doesn't go to the picture as much. What an
Speaker 1: alienating experience it would be to just see the raw
Speaker 1: material from which a film is edited. Yeah, because he's
Speaker 1: not learning anything about writing a wrestling movie with those rushes.
Speaker 1: It's all just I will destroy him over and over
Speaker 1: and they start coming at a faster clip, and that
Speaker 1: sense of unease is just building and building because you
Speaker 1: see his face. He's just like, this isn't helping me,
Speaker 1: this is making it worse. Yeah, And it's just flesh
Speaker 1: on flash like it's so it's so like gross looking. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's pretty grassy, big men in tights. Mm hmm. Let's
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about the hotel room scene with
Speaker 1: Judy Davis when she comes over to do what she
Speaker 1: did for Bill. So many times I thought that that
Speaker 1: was going to be a scene about her sort of
Speaker 1: becoming his muse. First time I saw it, and it
Speaker 1: really does not go in that direction at all. I
Speaker 1: mean mused being the most charitable way to describe it.
Speaker 1: And maybe the fact that she's a woman and doesn't
Speaker 1: get any respect in this time and place and could
Speaker 1: be a great writer in her own right, but has
Speaker 1: to sort of has to sort of get her work
Speaker 1: out through like you know, people, the great men around
Speaker 1: her or whatever. Um. I'm curious if, um, that's got
Speaker 1: to be a true thing. That was Faulkner accused of
Speaker 1: having a ghostwriter. Boy, I don't know. I bet you
Speaker 1: any I bet you anything they got that from real life.
Speaker 1: I'm curious. I'll have to go back in a look later.
Speaker 1: But um, that scene is it's about seven minutes long, which, um,
Speaker 1: if you've never written movies or made a movie or anything,
Speaker 1: it probably doesn't sound like a long time. But for listeners,
Speaker 1: if you're watching a film, kind of kind of think
Speaker 1: about how long scenes are. Seven minutes is super super
Speaker 1: long for one scene in one room with two people, right,
Speaker 1: like the a scene structure is based on, you know,
Speaker 1: two characters enter a scene wanting two different things, and
Speaker 1: you know it's like it's conflict resolution written small, the
Speaker 1: way a you know, two hour movie is about conflict.
Speaker 1: Conflict resolution writ large. And to spend seven minutes doing
Speaker 1: that is it's pretty audacious, I think. And it's kind
Speaker 1: of the central scene in the film, aside from the climax. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I agree, because they go so many places in this
Speaker 1: seven minutes. He's he's sort of having an anxiety attack
Speaker 1: when she shows up, and she goes right into this soothing,
Speaker 1: uh sort of mommy soothed angry child mode, and then
Speaker 1: she lets it slip that she had done this so
Speaker 1: many times for Bill and that ramps up this big
Speaker 1: revelation and then he goes berserk and she again brings
Speaker 1: him back down. Like the the amount of emotional places
Speaker 1: this scene goes is current kind of crazy. Um has
Speaker 1: also got one of the great lines. Uh. Sometimes instead
Speaker 1: of a waif, he'd have a the wrestler protect an
Speaker 1: idiot man Child Studios always hated that instead of a waif. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the the and then like giving into the sexual tension
Speaker 1: at the end, despite the fact, like the films, the
Speaker 1: scene start with him being under the gun right, like
Speaker 1: the clock is ticking on getting something and and by
Speaker 1: the end of the scene you don't care about that anymore,
Speaker 1: which is an amazing magic trick like that that they're
Speaker 1: able to hide that tension by the end of the scene. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I guess because Barton is able to stop and perform
Speaker 1: some coital X, you do kind of forget about it,
Speaker 1: and then I guess the very next scene is well,
Speaker 1: the next scene is the next morning, and that's when
Speaker 1: sort of the nightmare begins, right, But he goes straight
Speaker 1: from there over to Leipnics, doesn't he. Right, They have
Speaker 1: the pool side meeting and it's kind of the first
Speaker 1: moment where Barton is a little kg you know. He
Speaker 1: he says like, I'm not going to tell you what's
Speaker 1: in my mind, because you know, giving giving voice to
Speaker 1: these words before they're on the page could despoil them.
Speaker 1: And it's not. I guess, uh, I guess Goodman leaves
Speaker 1: leaves the mysterious package in his room. That's when Barton
Speaker 1: finds the Holy Bible and finds the words another great
Speaker 1: Coen Brothers thing. Oh my god. And that guy is
Speaker 1: the is the evil uh the evil worker in the
Speaker 1: Hudsucker building right, and the next he's the one that's
Speaker 1: scraping wearing Hudsucker's name off of the President's office and
Speaker 1: then and then fights the the elevator technician at the end. Boy,
Speaker 1: I want to think that's the same guy in their world. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he just had these different jobs. Um, but but this
Speaker 1: is kind of like when when he starts to be
Speaker 1: able to write, and I think that like maybe the
Speaker 1: like the subtlest joke in the in the movie is
Speaker 1: that this script is obviously just kind of a warmed
Speaker 1: over version of his play Yeah yeah, which is not
Speaker 1: at all. So so many of the words are the same,
Speaker 1: like the fishmongers and everything and it's just, uh, he's like,
Speaker 1: this is the best thing I've ever written. It's like
Speaker 1: it's you know when a band releases their second album
Speaker 1: and it's just like, yeah, this is kind of just
Speaker 1: your first album again. Yeah. Yeah, Well, and then the
Speaker 1: reaction from Learner like, uh, little fruity, maybe a little
Speaker 1: bit for the critics, but yeah, we don't want him
Speaker 1: wrestling with his emotions. I know, I want to know
Speaker 1: what that script was. I know that's one of the
Speaker 1: great like unresolved things in the Coen Brothers annals, I think,
Speaker 1: is what movie did he write? Yeah? The the other
Speaker 1: very Cohen's uh sort of subtle joke is when um
Speaker 1: Charlie's he agrees to clean up the body that obviously
Speaker 1: he had killed and and two tuos in the bathroom
Speaker 1: and you see him carrying the body out and and
Speaker 1: just box her head on the dresser on the way out.
Speaker 1: They have so many little subtle things like that in
Speaker 1: their films, and I think that's just those are the
Speaker 1: nuggets that set them apart. You know, Yeah, you can't
Speaker 1: imagine that that it is something that they come up
Speaker 1: with in the script phase, right, Like, I don't know, man,
Speaker 1: there's details. Yeah, but like I can see them being
Speaker 1: on set and be like, you know, it would be
Speaker 1: really funny. You know, yeah, just bonker on the head,
Speaker 1: uh the other thing this midpoint you know, or not midpoint.
Speaker 1: I guess it's more sort of the third act it
Speaker 1: becomes the plot gets really weird, and um, the cinematically
Speaker 1: gets really weird. And it's such a strange for I mean,
Speaker 1: this was a mainstream movie. It didn't do great at
Speaker 1: the box office, but I think this was their effort
Speaker 1: to make something that people would see. And it's and
Speaker 1: it takes such a strange turn for a mainstream film.
Speaker 1: It a like the surreality of it starts getting dialed
Speaker 1: up to eleven in a way that you just don't
Speaker 1: see like studio movies doing. And yeah, I mean it's
Speaker 1: it's it's kind of what the movie is making fun of,
Speaker 1: right like the like it's the it's the inner struggle
Speaker 1: that the movie is kind of preoccupied with, and um,
Speaker 1: you know, maybe even like signaling to the audience like
Speaker 1: if if you're not here for this, like you know,
Speaker 1: if if you're not like interested in seeing Barton Fink's play,
Speaker 1: you probably won't be able to make it through this,
Speaker 1: Like I for sure want to see Barton Finks play
Speaker 1: Oh totally dude, absolutely, um you. And then we get
Speaker 1: to the end with the that's where it really goes
Speaker 1: off the rails or or um you know, as far
Speaker 1: as definitely leaving reality is the hallway fire. These two
Speaker 1: detectives that are so amazing. Yeah, I don't recognize those
Speaker 1: actors from other things. Maybe the maybe the taller of
Speaker 1: the two detectives look a little familiar to me, but
Speaker 1: I definitely recognize him. Yeah, they're great, and there they
Speaker 1: have kind of a lot of the movie on their shoulders.
Speaker 1: Like if if they don't somehow feel more threatening than
Speaker 1: John Goodman, like that flip when he chases them down
Speaker 1: the hallway with the shotgun is not going to feel
Speaker 1: as big. No, I agree, um, and that that picture too,
Speaker 1: they show of Madman Munt like Charlie, such a lovable,
Speaker 1: affable guy, and of course they went with John Goodman
Speaker 1: because he is one of the more affable people in
Speaker 1: the history of movies. Yeah. Like his his atility and
Speaker 1: this is very similar to his utility as as Walter
Speaker 1: soab check, which is that he's like he like on
Speaker 1: paper is terrifying. But you can't help loving him, Yeah
Speaker 1: for sure. But that photo they really get across so
Speaker 1: much in that little snapshot of him in a in
Speaker 1: a line up room or whatever getting his mug shot
Speaker 1: just looking like totally unhinged. So you know, that just
Speaker 1: sets up this whole ending with the the shotgun against
Speaker 1: the forehead and the Heil Hitler. What was that all about?
Speaker 1: Do you have a take on that? I mean, just
Speaker 1: to peg the evil needle? You think it was a
Speaker 1: weird line. It it almost goes by like it's just
Speaker 1: like it doesn't even it doesn't make sense, like this
Speaker 1: cop is not coated as Jewish, like like everybody everybody
Speaker 1: in the Hollywood parts of the movie, he as coded
Speaker 1: as Jewish and they throw the K word around pretty liberally. Uh,
Speaker 1: But like, yeah, I guess it's just like the beginning
Speaker 1: of the war and he is like he is like
Speaker 1: a source of of evil. Maybe, so, I mean, it
Speaker 1: didn't he didn't indicate at all that he's any sort
Speaker 1: of a not see or white supremacist, even though the
Speaker 1: things weren't even linked at the time, although he could
Speaker 1: play one of no brother weren't thewn that now I
Speaker 1: think about it, he was a klansman right, and another
Speaker 1: character that is like really fun to be around until
Speaker 1: you realize what what a nightmare he is. Is he
Speaker 1: a klansman, No, he's the Bible salesman. But is he
Speaker 1: at the clan rally too? Yeah? He he's He's the
Speaker 1: one that says, don't let don't let that flag touch
Speaker 1: the ground. That's right, that's right. He's got he's got
Speaker 1: the one hole in the hood because he's a he's
Speaker 1: the cyclops. I can't wait to get to that one.
Speaker 1: That's one of my favorites. Oh Man is great. I
Speaker 1: mean that movie and this movie both definitely build a
Speaker 1: lot from Sulivan's Travels, which is like an old old
Speaker 1: movie about a motion picture executive who has made a
Speaker 1: bunch of light comedy films and you know, wants to
Speaker 1: wants to make a bigger, uh you know, more ambitious,
Speaker 1: more artistic film called Old Brother where Art thou and
Speaker 1: Sullivan's Travels is a road film where he like you know,
Speaker 1: finds himself in the depression South and sees that the
Speaker 1: you know, the comedy films that he's made are actually
Speaker 1: like really meaningful to people and bring light two very
Speaker 1: dark times for people, and and that that that's actually
Speaker 1: like a it's it's actually a worthy aspiration to make,
Speaker 1: to make entertainment that is just an escape for people.
Speaker 1: And and like oh, brother ware Art thou as a
Speaker 1: as as the Coen Brothers road movie comedy depression era
Speaker 1: films and this movie as there as they're like, you know,
Speaker 1: nineteen forties Hollywood film. Both feel like they're really grounded
Speaker 1: in in inspiration from Solivan's travels. I need to see that.
Speaker 1: That was referenced also in Grand Canyon. Um at the
Speaker 1: end was Steve Martin talks about Grand Cany era, talks
Speaker 1: about Sulivan's travels. It's one I don't know, Grand Canyon. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you don't know Grand Canyon. That was um Danny Glover
Speaker 1: and Mary mc McDonell and Kevin Klein. It was a
Speaker 1: movie about l A and sort of race relations and
Speaker 1: Hugh and humans. I think it was. I want to say,
Speaker 1: Lawrence Kasden, it's a good movie. I'm looking. I'm thinking
Speaker 1: now and whether or not that movie might age poorly
Speaker 1: because I feel like it was sort of in the
Speaker 1: aftermath of the l A Riot, so it may not
Speaker 1: exists well today, you know, since we solved racism, right, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: that that there was that period where we thought we
Speaker 1: had solved racism and we realized how how wrong we
Speaker 1: were as a society. Uh but yeah, Sullivan's travels he
Speaker 1: he he literally says, you know, you ever seen the
Speaker 1: movie Canyon was the same year as this? Oh? Really? Yeah,
Speaker 1: they don't exist in the same timeline for me, But
Speaker 1: I guess that kind of makes sense. Not a bad movie, though,
Speaker 1: I just I'm just curious about eight as well, a
Speaker 1: movie like Barton fink Age as well, because it's just
Speaker 1: sort of timeless like so many of their films. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: I watched some some Lawrence Kasdan movie recently that I
Speaker 1: just could not get into. Had to turn it off.
Speaker 1: It was like something it was kind of like an
Speaker 1: erotic thriller and really and um, I'm trying to trying
Speaker 1: to find it here. I don't associate him with erotic
Speaker 1: or thriller. I know. Yeah, it doesn't. Oh maybe it
Speaker 1: was Body Heat that wasn't him. That was DiPalma writer
Speaker 1: and directed it, William Hurt and Kathleen Turner. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I was thinking of um Di Palma's Body Double. Okay,
Speaker 1: both of those are both good movies, both very erotic. Actually, yeah,
Speaker 1: I put it on like one night, and I just
Speaker 1: I didn't connect to it at all. So which body
Speaker 1: heat or body double body heat? I didn't know that
Speaker 1: was a lyric ast a movie that's crazy, yeah, weird
Speaker 1: right in the so like right in his right in
Speaker 1: the same eras when he was doing Star Wars, stuffy
Speaker 1: kind of funny, you know, like I guess like a
Speaker 1: palate cleanser. The way partner think is Ti Miller's crossing, Like,
Speaker 1: let me just like do something a little bit different different.
Speaker 1: So Um, in the end, Charlie, let's Barton go. I
Speaker 1: think it was. It could never have been a consideration
Speaker 1: to kill Barton. That would have been a very poor
Speaker 1: way to end this film. Um. I think his punishment
Speaker 1: is to let him live, even perhaps Yeah, no, definitely.
Speaker 1: It doesn't feel like Barton wins anything in this movie.
Speaker 1: And and in fact, like that that beach scene at
Speaker 1: the end, like is sort of it's sort of a
Speaker 1: joke about that, right because he's like he comes straight
Speaker 1: from Lipnocks office to the beach where the feeling is
Speaker 1: not the the triumph of of or the freedom of
Speaker 1: being on the beach. It's the feeling of being trapped
Speaker 1: in that hotel room. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And it's
Speaker 1: funny to think about headlines the next day, you know.
Speaker 1: And and if this is all real and not a dream,
Speaker 1: it's like, you know, l a hotel burns down, serial
Speaker 1: killer murders, you know, hundreds of people right because it's
Speaker 1: ostensibly full. Those shoes are always out every night. Shoes
Speaker 1: are always out, and no one's getting out of those rooms.
Speaker 1: It's one of the most popular features of the hotel,
Speaker 1: earl uh. And then Barton goes to the beach and
Speaker 1: you know, it's a great sequence at the end with
Speaker 1: the box. You know it isn't mine. Yeah, And speaking
Speaker 1: of great sound design, I love that moment when he
Speaker 1: can't hear her at first because of the surf, Like
Speaker 1: the it's kind of a hard, hard needle to thread
Speaker 1: with sound design, Like somebody speaking and you can tell
Speaker 1: that they're saying something, but you can't make it out.
Speaker 1: And why so good at decoding the human voice that
Speaker 1: you know, like it has to be really distorted. Why yeah?
Speaker 1: And why is she talking to him? Well, because he's
Speaker 1: she doesn't need him kind of tweed suit sitting on
Speaker 1: the beach staring at her with a head in the box. Yeah,
Speaker 1: what's in the box? What did the box? Such a
Speaker 1: great movie? It was good to see it after all
Speaker 1: these years too, Yeah, holds up great? How did the
Speaker 1: This may be like one of the great ending shots,
Speaker 1: second only maybe two big Lebowski after that really long
Speaker 1: wonner when the guy bowls a perfect strike. That pelican
Speaker 1: just plunking into the ocean. Yeah, what how did they
Speaker 1: get that? I don't know. I've always wondered about that
Speaker 1: because this was pre c G I, there would there
Speaker 1: would have been no c G I pelican. No. Um,
Speaker 1: they clearly added that sound design, right, Yeah, there wasn't
Speaker 1: a boom mico over the over the water there. I
Speaker 1: don't know. I'm curious. I bet you there's an answer
Speaker 1: out there that we could, uh, we could track down.
Speaker 1: But um, or maybe it was just fortuitous and good
Speaker 1: luck and the Coen Brothers are like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: did you see that fucking belican? Yeah? I kind of
Speaker 1: feel like it was that way it might have been. Um,
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think about seed pelicans on beaches in
Speaker 1: l A. But now can count on one hand the
Speaker 1: times I went to the beach in l A. You
Speaker 1: know what, I mean that is an East Cider. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I I've been to the beach zero times since I
Speaker 1: moved to Los Angeles. The only time I ever went
Speaker 1: was when someone came in from out of town that
Speaker 1: was wanted to go to Venice Beach or something in
Speaker 1: Venice Beach is kind of fun. But the parking, give
Speaker 1: me a break. I know. The parking is a fucking bitch.
Speaker 1: It's terrible. It's the worst. Okay, uh, since we brought
Speaker 1: this up earlier, I uh just just caught my eye
Speaker 1: in this biography, and I feel like I should get
Speaker 1: it into the record before we stopped recording, because we'll
Speaker 1: get we'll get, we'll get tweets. Delicate Tessen I think
Speaker 1: was at Con the same year as this movie. Oh
Speaker 1: really yeah, wow, yeah, I guess that all makes sense.
Speaker 1: In early nineties, totally nuts. Boy, you saved us, so
Speaker 1: I didn't. The the wetness of the walls didn't directly,
Speaker 1: it was just it was just in the in the zeitgeist,
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, everybody was obsessed with wet walls. All right, buddy,
Speaker 1: you got anything else? Um? I don't, but I do
Speaker 1: want to say thanks for getting me to watch this
Speaker 1: movie again. Yeah, it had been a while for me
Speaker 1: as well. And um, what is next, Hudsucker? So we're
Speaker 1: gonna finish you. Oh you didn't get to do Millards,
Speaker 1: but this will finish their period. Is a great guy,
Speaker 1: and I'm glad that he got it. Yeah, Ben, he
Speaker 1: he took that one. I don't blame him. Uh so, yeah,
Speaker 1: so we'll get Hudsucker in the can and then move
Speaker 1: right on into the geeze now looking at it the
Speaker 1: second half of their career. Yeah, that's uh some exciting stuff.
Speaker 1: I'm I'm really looking forward to it. Yeah, and they
Speaker 1: get a lot more fun too. Um, raising Arizona is fun,
Speaker 1: but I'm really looking forward to some of their undersung films.
Speaker 1: I think like Intolerable Cruelty and Burn. After reading Total Movies,
Speaker 1: I really enjoyed a lot. Yeah. I mean Hudsucker is
Speaker 1: like a real ald timer for me as well. So
Speaker 1: oh great, Paul Newman, Yeah, I'm super jazzed. All right, dude, Well,
Speaker 1: thanks for coming on, and uh I'll hitch up off
Speaker 1: and about about Hudsucker. Awesome. Uh Yeah. People can listen
Speaker 1: to my podcasts at maximum Fun dot org or just
Speaker 1: search for the Greatest Generation or Friendly Fire or the
Speaker 1: greatest discovery in your podcast app. You're kid at that.
Speaker 1: Always forget that. With guests, you gotta plug their ship,
Speaker 1: you know, check out friendly Fire. I'm behind myself because
Speaker 1: I've been obsessing about other podcasts for a moment. So
Speaker 1: all of my regulars have built up many, many shows
Speaker 1: that I'm gonna be tacking. Man. We have some some
Speaker 1: great ones coming up, so I can't wait. Yeah, all right, buddy, Thanks,
Speaker 1: all right? Check awesome talking to a Man. Bite Joy
Speaker 1: Crush has produced, edited, and engineered by Ramsey Hunt here
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