WEBVTT - The backlash against EVs is growing. Uber is pushing back. 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:04.520 Welcome to Zero. I am Akshatrati. This week, can Uber 0:00:04.760 --> 0:00:21.520 Go Green? It may surprise you to learn that Europe's 0:00:21.520 --> 0:00:25.639 biggest lobbyist for electric cars isn't an automaker or the 0:00:25.640 --> 0:00:31.360 battery industry. It's Uber. That's surprising because in recent months 0:00:31.640 --> 0:00:34.400 there has been a slowdown in electric car sales and 0:00:34.479 --> 0:00:38.720 automakers want a reprieve on their green goals. Not Uber, 0:00:38.800 --> 0:00:42.000 though the right hailing company has been leading the charge 0:00:42.120 --> 0:00:45.800 to get regulators to change the rules and get more 0:00:45.840 --> 0:00:49.640 electric vehicles on the road. On this week's episode, I 0:00:49.720 --> 0:00:53.639 got to ask the company CEO, Dara Kosroshai about it. 0:00:55.040 --> 0:00:57.680 He was in London recently making the case that Uber 0:00:57.680 --> 0:01:01.120 customers should op for the electric car in their app, 0:01:01.720 --> 0:01:05.800 even if it means waiting a few extra minutes. As 0:01:05.800 --> 0:01:09.040 an occasional Uber taker, the green feature is something I 0:01:09.080 --> 0:01:12.200 am familiar with and it is a step in the 0:01:12.240 --> 0:01:16.200 right direction, But it's only available in two hundred cities 0:01:16.520 --> 0:01:21.119 out of the ten thousand that have Ubers. As you'll 0:01:21.160 --> 0:01:24.679 hear in the conversation. In twenty twenty, Uber set some 0:01:24.840 --> 0:01:28.959 big goals about going electric for twenty twenty five, twenty 0:01:28.959 --> 0:01:33.280 thirty and twenty forty. It's unlikely that the company will 0:01:33.280 --> 0:01:35.880 meet the twenty twenty five goals, and even the twenty 0:01:35.920 --> 0:01:39.160 thirty goals are going to be a stretch, but the 0:01:39.200 --> 0:01:43.040 company is sticking with them because uberc is going electric 0:01:43.360 --> 0:01:46.759 being good for business, not just for the planet. There 0:01:46.760 --> 0:01:49.480 are other reasons to go electric. We talk about driver 0:01:49.600 --> 0:01:52.040 lesque cars and I tried one of those for the 0:01:52.080 --> 0:01:55.280 first time in San Francisco this summer, and we talk 0:01:55.320 --> 0:01:58.600 about flying taxis a climate solution. I haven't tried yet, 0:01:59.440 --> 0:02:03.000 but we and stop. There few CEOs of major companies 0:02:03.040 --> 0:02:05.440 sit down with a climate journalist, so I asked him 0:02:05.440 --> 0:02:10.000 about carbon accounting and also about a just transition. That's 0:02:10.000 --> 0:02:13.560 why this is one of our longer episodes. Whether you're 0:02:13.560 --> 0:02:16.079 a fan of uber or not, what the company does 0:02:16.120 --> 0:02:35.800 on climate will have a big impact. Welcome to Zero, Dara, 0:02:36.080 --> 0:02:36.400 thank you. 0:02:36.400 --> 0:02:37.760 It's great to be here now. 0:02:37.919 --> 0:02:41.960 I'm an engineer. I studied chemical engineering. You're an engineer. 0:02:41.960 --> 0:02:47.560 You studied electrical engineering. And sometimes I think about the background, 0:02:47.560 --> 0:02:50.119 the education and what that brings to the jobs we do, 0:02:50.440 --> 0:02:52.880 and for me, it's very much being informed by the science, 0:02:53.520 --> 0:02:57.280 being curious about the world, asking good and hard questions. 0:02:58.240 --> 0:03:00.720 Is there anything from your engineering days This is a 0:03:00.720 --> 0:03:04.280 while back that you still carry in running a company 0:03:04.320 --> 0:03:07.400 that's one hundred and fifty billion dollars worth and operates 0:03:07.440 --> 0:03:08.280 in seventy countries. 0:03:08.560 --> 0:03:11.040 Very much so, very much so. And for me, what 0:03:11.160 --> 0:03:15.320 engineering taught me was how to break down complex problems 0:03:15.960 --> 0:03:19.480 into much simpler artifacts and then solve those artifacts and 0:03:19.520 --> 0:03:24.320 then recompute into a more complex answer. I still to 0:03:24.360 --> 0:03:29.079 this day remember And it's a very basic precept vector math, right, 0:03:29.120 --> 0:03:32.080 which is you look at three dimensional problems. And for me, 0:03:32.240 --> 0:03:34.760 I was always like challenging myself figure out the answer 0:03:34.800 --> 0:03:37.400 to the three dimensional problem. When you break it down 0:03:37.840 --> 0:03:42.920 to single dimensionary problems, you get very simple answers and 0:03:42.960 --> 0:03:44.720 you can work your way through it. And I think 0:03:44.760 --> 0:03:47.760 with business and in many things in life, people tend 0:03:47.800 --> 0:03:51.680 to over complicate things and sometimes people want to They 0:03:51.720 --> 0:03:55.640 almost want to show off their ability to understand complexity, etc. 0:03:56.120 --> 0:03:59.520 Those are people who I think succeed and engineering really 0:03:59.560 --> 0:04:03.000 taught me that break down the problem, make it simple 0:04:03.000 --> 0:04:07.440 for yourself, understand what's core and what's not core, and 0:04:07.480 --> 0:04:09.640 then move on the. 0:04:09.640 --> 0:04:11.680 Other thing we do as engineers is solve problems. 0:04:11.840 --> 0:04:13.160 Yeah, And have problems. 0:04:13.360 --> 0:04:16.000 When you were made CEO of Uber, there were plenty 0:04:16.040 --> 0:04:18.559 of problems you had to deal with. There was Uber 0:04:18.560 --> 0:04:21.480 having the reputation of a toxic culture. It seems you've 0:04:21.560 --> 0:04:23.839 changed that and made it a happier place to work. 0:04:24.360 --> 0:04:27.840 Then during the pandemic, people stopped taking ubers because well, 0:04:27.880 --> 0:04:30.640 we were all locked down and you had to pivot 0:04:30.880 --> 0:04:34.680 to deliveries. And that's now nearly half of your revenues. 0:04:35.560 --> 0:04:38.880 And in that same period you also set out ambitious 0:04:38.920 --> 0:04:41.960 climate goals. This is a climate podcast, we're going to 0:04:41.960 --> 0:04:42.400 talk about that. 0:04:42.560 --> 0:04:42.920 Sure. 0:04:43.440 --> 0:04:46.599 So in twenty twenty, Uber pledged to be all electric 0:04:46.640 --> 0:04:50.360 in Europe, US and Canada by twenty thirty and everywhere 0:04:50.400 --> 0:04:54.559 else by twenty forty. The company also committed eight hundred 0:04:54.600 --> 0:04:58.280 million dollars toward that goal by twenty twenty five. Your 0:04:58.360 --> 0:05:01.920 latest sustainability report for twenty twenty three says you spent 0:05:02.000 --> 0:05:05.880 about four hundred and forty million dollars. What have you 0:05:05.960 --> 0:05:07.240 put it to work? 0:05:07.880 --> 0:05:12.400 The most significant part of our investment has been incentives 0:05:12.839 --> 0:05:17.320 for drivers to essentially make more money per ride. I 0:05:17.360 --> 0:05:21.120 think that everyone in terms of these climate goals has 0:05:21.120 --> 0:05:25.760 had really good intentions, but they will remain good intentions 0:05:26.400 --> 0:05:31.279 until and unless you can create economic flywheels to really 0:05:31.320 --> 0:05:36.400 start to scale those ambitions into the reality of business. 0:05:37.000 --> 0:05:40.920 And for our business, there's a flywheel that has to happen, right, 0:05:41.040 --> 0:05:45.120 is if you want more riders to take electric rides, 0:05:45.160 --> 0:05:48.360 you actually have to have drivers who are driving evs 0:05:48.440 --> 0:05:51.240 and are hybrids to start with as well. And you 0:05:51.279 --> 0:05:53.600 need the supply in order to create the demand. If 0:05:53.640 --> 0:05:55.599 you don't have enough supply, then if someone asks for 0:05:55.600 --> 0:05:57.880 an Uber Green, they may be waiting twelve thirteen minutes. 0:05:57.920 --> 0:06:00.080 That's not good enough. So we had to get the 0:06:00.160 --> 0:06:06.400 economic flywheel going. And our business is always starts with supply. 0:06:06.600 --> 0:06:09.440 How many drivers, quality drivers can we get on the platform. 0:06:09.960 --> 0:06:12.600 As it related to climate, it's how many drivers can 0:06:12.640 --> 0:06:17.720 we convince to buy the next vehicle, make that purchase 0:06:17.760 --> 0:06:20.000 an EV And as a result, we have to make 0:06:20.000 --> 0:06:25.000 it economically attractive to these drivers. Their vehicles are their offices. 0:06:25.040 --> 0:06:27.719 They make a living with these vehicles. So the majority 0:06:27.760 --> 0:06:31.400 of our investment has gone to create incentives per ride, 0:06:31.440 --> 0:06:36.800 incentives for drivers who are driving EV on Uber to 0:06:36.839 --> 0:06:40.120 make more money. And those incentives originally started fifty cents 0:06:40.120 --> 0:06:42.640 a ride. Now in the US it's based on a 0:06:42.680 --> 0:06:45.480 certain number of rides. You make a special incentive if 0:06:45.520 --> 0:06:48.000 you have over two hundred rides, and we have these 0:06:48.000 --> 0:06:51.920 incentives all over the world. That makes driving an EV 0:06:52.160 --> 0:06:54.960 on a per trip basis more profitable for the average 0:06:55.040 --> 0:06:58.279 Uber driver. That allows them to afford to pay somewhat 0:06:58.320 --> 0:07:01.000 more for those evs because they do tend to be 0:07:01.040 --> 0:07:03.720 more expensive. There is in a secondhand market, and that 0:07:03.760 --> 0:07:05.760 creates a flywheel that we're talking about. 0:07:06.120 --> 0:07:08.640 There's also the question of the upfront cost, because if 0:07:08.720 --> 0:07:11.240 they have to get that extra earning, they have to 0:07:11.280 --> 0:07:14.679 buy that car. And one hope was that you would 0:07:15.000 --> 0:07:18.680 charge say a Londoner, which is me, when I take 0:07:18.680 --> 0:07:21.200 an Uber here, I pay a clean air fee and 0:07:21.280 --> 0:07:24.680 that goes into a pot that would help subsidize the 0:07:24.720 --> 0:07:27.960 buying of the vehicle because it still is on an 0:07:28.000 --> 0:07:30.240 upfront basis most of the time a little more expensive 0:07:30.280 --> 0:07:34.280 than your gasoline car. Has that happened. Have you helped 0:07:34.400 --> 0:07:38.559 drivers subsidize the purchase of the vehicle, not just once 0:07:38.600 --> 0:07:40.840 they have the vehicle, actually make more money and how 0:07:40.880 --> 0:07:42.880 many electric vehicles have you helped? 0:07:43.280 --> 0:07:45.760 Very much? So? So the London has been a huge 0:07:45.760 --> 0:07:48.840 success for us. If you step back. Right now, the 0:07:48.880 --> 0:07:52.320 average Uber driver is moving over to EV's five times 0:07:52.360 --> 0:07:55.480 faster than the average driver. That's a big success, but 0:07:55.600 --> 0:07:57.640 still we got a long way to go. About ten 0:07:57.680 --> 0:08:02.240 percent of or overall miles or EV in Europe and California, 0:08:02.280 --> 0:08:05.600 it's closer to twenty percent. Here in London, we're approaching 0:08:05.600 --> 0:08:08.800 a third of our miles being EV. A big part 0:08:08.840 --> 0:08:11.880 of that was a clean air fund where we are 0:08:11.880 --> 0:08:14.560 reinvesting that clean air fund to make it easier for 0:08:14.640 --> 0:08:17.520 drivers to buy vehicles. There are great deals going on 0:08:17.560 --> 0:08:19.840 with Kias right now in London. It's pretty extraordinary you 0:08:20.280 --> 0:08:23.360 see on the streets here. So that has definitely been 0:08:23.360 --> 0:08:25.559 a success, and I think London again was a tip 0:08:25.880 --> 0:08:30.760 of the spear, so to speak, our top marketplace. More generally, 0:08:31.120 --> 0:08:33.800 what we're trying to do is we're investing in the 0:08:33.920 --> 0:08:37.319 per trip incentive and then we're working with our OEM 0:08:37.400 --> 0:08:42.840 partners to secure discounts on purchase of the vehicles. We 0:08:42.920 --> 0:08:46.240 also a lot of our drivers may not want to 0:08:46.360 --> 0:08:50.280 jump into EV's cold, so to speak, so we've also 0:08:50.400 --> 0:08:53.720 established rental programs. For example, Hurts is a big partner 0:08:53.760 --> 0:08:56.400 for us that allow drivers to kind of try before 0:08:56.440 --> 0:08:59.920 you buy, Understand what it means to drive an EV 0:09:00.640 --> 0:09:05.040 some of them have charging anxiety, etc. Understand where chargers 0:09:05.040 --> 0:09:08.120 are available, how much time it takes, and then switch 0:09:08.160 --> 0:09:10.840 over from a rental to a purchase as well. So 0:09:10.960 --> 0:09:13.839 hopefully we can work with industry to make it more affordable, 0:09:14.080 --> 0:09:17.000 and then we're going to put our investment, the majority 0:09:17.040 --> 0:09:18.959 of our investment on a per ride basis. 0:09:19.360 --> 0:09:21.840 But how many drivers have said that they've used your 0:09:21.840 --> 0:09:23.720 subsidy to actually buy an electric vehicle? 0:09:24.080 --> 0:09:28.040 So one hundred and eighty two thousand drivers are now 0:09:28.120 --> 0:09:32.000 on evs on the platform. It's about three times what 0:09:32.120 --> 0:09:34.240 it was last year when I was here for first 0:09:34.280 --> 0:09:39.280 Go Get event. How many specific drivers have bought specifically 0:09:39.320 --> 0:09:42.199 because of our discounts, I actually don't know. My guess 0:09:42.240 --> 0:09:46.160 is it's a significant number. But is it over fifty 0:09:46.240 --> 0:09:48.000 or fifty or below fifty, I'm not sure. 0:09:48.600 --> 0:09:52.439 About ten percent of all miles driven are electric now 0:09:52.960 --> 0:09:55.440 on the Uber platform. London is far ahead. 0:09:55.679 --> 0:09:56.280 That's a third. 0:09:56.960 --> 0:09:59.160 But the target one you'd set it was for London 0:09:59.280 --> 0:10:01.760 to be one h percent electric by twenty twenty five. 0:10:02.280 --> 0:10:04.160 Even if it's the end of twenty twenty five, that's 0:10:04.200 --> 0:10:07.320 you know, fifteen months away, how are you going to 0:10:07.360 --> 0:10:09.480 go from a third to one hundred percent. 0:10:10.040 --> 0:10:11.640 I think those targets at this point are going to 0:10:11.640 --> 0:10:13.960 be very difficult to hit for us. And you know 0:10:14.000 --> 0:10:16.679 the fact is that I've always said that climate is 0:10:16.720 --> 0:10:19.400 a team sport, and we need government to come in, 0:10:19.440 --> 0:10:22.120 we need industry to come in. We certainly are leaning 0:10:22.120 --> 0:10:24.840 in with our own pocketboats and with a bunch of 0:10:24.840 --> 0:10:28.880 our innovation as focused on making evs more delightful, available 0:10:29.120 --> 0:10:32.480 for everybody. So while I think those twenty twenty five 0:10:32.520 --> 0:10:35.079 targets will be very challenging for us to hit, we 0:10:35.200 --> 0:10:37.760 got twenty thirty targets. We got twenty forty targets, and 0:10:37.800 --> 0:10:42.160 for us, you know, these targets drive outsize ambition at 0:10:42.200 --> 0:10:44.880 the company. One of the wonderful things that I love 0:10:44.920 --> 0:10:47.680 about Uber is like we put these targets in place, 0:10:48.120 --> 0:10:51.959 the whole team rallies behind them. It excites everyone. We 0:10:52.000 --> 0:10:56.760 have a new sustainability leader, Rebecca, who came from Tesla 0:10:56.800 --> 0:10:58.600 as well, which is one of the leading companies in 0:10:58.600 --> 0:11:01.439 that space. So you know, we're going to push to 0:11:01.480 --> 0:11:03.600 hit those targets. Twenty twenty five is going to be hard, 0:11:03.960 --> 0:11:06.120 but we got our twenty thirty targets that are ambitious, 0:11:06.160 --> 0:11:08.839 and certainly twenty forty targets that are both ambitious and 0:11:08.920 --> 0:11:09.640 I think doable. 0:11:10.240 --> 0:11:12.320 Over the past two years, we've seen a number of 0:11:12.880 --> 0:11:17.559 pioneering sustainability companies face the kinds of challenge you're facing, 0:11:17.600 --> 0:11:21.440 which is set out an ambitious goal. Maybe you're not 0:11:21.480 --> 0:11:23.320 going to be able to hit it, or maybe you're 0:11:23.360 --> 0:11:25.920 able to hit it, but in the process you've had 0:11:25.920 --> 0:11:29.800 to invest money to get there, while your competitors have not. 0:11:30.120 --> 0:11:32.840 So the pioneers get punished one way or another, whether 0:11:32.880 --> 0:11:36.439 they meet the goal or they don't. And a Cambridge 0:11:36.520 --> 0:11:41.040 University report that just recently came out said that pioneering 0:11:41.040 --> 0:11:44.720 companies shouldn't be punished. Instead, one way out for them 0:11:45.160 --> 0:11:49.000 is to lobby governments to raise the ambition for everybody 0:11:49.040 --> 0:11:51.800 to level the playing field for your sector. And that 0:11:51.880 --> 0:11:55.720 is something you're doing now. You announced in September that 0:11:55.840 --> 0:11:59.959 you warn the European Union to have all right heling 0:12:00.160 --> 0:12:03.640 be electric by twenty thirty, and you say climate is 0:12:03.640 --> 0:12:06.920 a team sport. How many other right healing companies or 0:12:06.960 --> 0:12:09.280 taxi companies have joined that lobbying effort. 0:12:09.760 --> 0:12:12.520 I'm not aware of any at this point. And you know, 0:12:12.559 --> 0:12:15.920 I do think that while short term some of the 0:12:15.960 --> 0:12:20.679 pioneering companies, as you have said, may have a disadvantage 0:12:20.679 --> 0:12:24.320 because they're investing where others aren't, I do think that 0:12:24.480 --> 0:12:29.400 long term climate investment makes sense. Right. It's ultimately when 0:12:29.400 --> 0:12:34.160 you look into EV today for an Uber driver, we're 0:12:34.200 --> 0:12:38.480 not telling the Uber driver to buy an EV because 0:12:38.520 --> 0:12:41.319 it's good for the climate now it is, or because 0:12:41.320 --> 0:12:43.400 it's going to help us hit our targets. It is. 0:12:43.920 --> 0:12:45.720 You know that that purchase is going to help us 0:12:45.760 --> 0:12:47.760 hit our targets. We're telling it to buy an EV 0:12:47.840 --> 0:12:51.480 because it makes sense. And if you look over a 0:12:51.559 --> 0:12:54.640 two year to a five year timeframe, you take an 0:12:54.720 --> 0:12:59.040 into account cost of petrol versus charging, you look at 0:12:59.120 --> 0:13:03.079 maintenance costs, it actually makes economic sense for a driver 0:13:03.520 --> 0:13:06.120 to buy an EV. And so I think actually the 0:13:06.160 --> 0:13:09.040 formula that we have is yes, this is the right 0:13:09.040 --> 0:13:11.400 thing to do. It is can we afford to invest 0:13:11.440 --> 0:13:15.839 eight hundred million? We can, and we have. Now it's 0:13:15.840 --> 0:13:17.679 about making the economics work, and I think we're on 0:13:17.720 --> 0:13:18.520 a good path. 0:13:19.240 --> 0:13:23.719 As a platform, and as the largest right hailing platform, 0:13:24.200 --> 0:13:28.280 you also have consumers who may not think green. But 0:13:28.840 --> 0:13:31.200 if it shows up as the first option, which is 0:13:31.280 --> 0:13:34.480 kind of the default, and default is a very powerful 0:13:34.559 --> 0:13:36.760 place to be. It really is you can actually drive 0:13:36.880 --> 0:13:41.280 behavior change. Why just making it easier for somebody to 0:13:41.320 --> 0:13:43.440 get an electric noweres are you doing that? 0:13:43.800 --> 0:13:47.760 Well, Actually, what we're doing now is that many times 0:13:47.800 --> 0:13:51.000 when you order a regular Uber X, you're gonna get 0:13:51.160 --> 0:13:54.439 a Tesla or you will get an EV So it's 0:13:54.440 --> 0:13:56.920 happening to me. Yeah, I mean, if you're trying to change, 0:13:57.480 --> 0:14:01.560 you should have used an Uber Green. But that's okay, yeah, exactly. 0:14:01.679 --> 0:14:04.760 So you know, we run this marketplace, and the marketplace 0:14:04.880 --> 0:14:07.160 essentially is very flexible in terms of the kind of 0:14:07.200 --> 0:14:10.679 cars that we can dispatch you and obviously we want 0:14:10.720 --> 0:14:14.720 to dispatch an efficient dispatch that's within five six minutes, 0:14:15.240 --> 0:14:18.559 so the driver isn't driving them any empty miles. It's 0:14:18.600 --> 0:14:21.400 important for congestion in the city and emissions in a 0:14:21.440 --> 0:14:25.400 city as well. But what we're seeing is that one 0:14:25.440 --> 0:14:30.200 in four Uber customers actually has had their first experience 0:14:30.240 --> 0:14:33.480 with an EV on Uber. So a lot of what 0:14:33.560 --> 0:14:36.560 we talk about is moving drivers over. But as you know, 0:14:36.640 --> 0:14:39.720 the EV experience as a writer is really nice. It's quiet, 0:14:39.840 --> 0:14:44.160 the cars are new, spacious interiors, especially the backseat, et cetera. 0:14:44.640 --> 0:14:48.200 So I do think that there are these preconceived notions 0:14:48.240 --> 0:14:51.800 about EV's. I think unfortunately EV's have to some extent 0:14:51.840 --> 0:14:54.720 become politicized. Right is are you on the right or left? 0:14:54.720 --> 0:14:57.840 Et cetera. They're just really good products. So to the 0:14:57.880 --> 0:15:02.480 extent that we can increase exposure to this next generation 0:15:02.720 --> 0:15:05.720 of vehicles, which we truly feel are a better way 0:15:05.760 --> 0:15:08.040 going forward and good for the environment, then it can 0:15:08.080 --> 0:15:09.200 be a win win for everybody. 0:15:09.440 --> 0:15:12.080 And I've heard you say that on the Uber platform, 0:15:12.400 --> 0:15:17.840 electric rides get higher tips. Yes, is that the reason 0:15:17.840 --> 0:15:20.120 why they get higher tips? That is just a better ride, 0:15:20.200 --> 0:15:22.200 or is it that the people who are choosing it 0:15:22.240 --> 0:15:25.240 are just I don't know, I'm making a moral judgment here, 0:15:25.280 --> 0:15:28.240 but more moral people who want to support drivers more. 0:15:28.480 --> 0:15:31.000 We think it's a combination of both. You know, it's 0:15:31.040 --> 0:15:34.320 not a directly causal relationship, so there's some correlation there. 0:15:34.360 --> 0:15:37.440 I think you're absolutely right. But the experience is a 0:15:37.480 --> 0:15:41.280 good experience. The ride is a really cool ride. And 0:15:41.760 --> 0:15:46.080 I drive a Tesla, and I'll tell you I've heard 0:15:46.280 --> 0:15:49.000 many times people, first of all, that they have trouble 0:15:49.000 --> 0:15:51.280 with the handle, although they're getting much better at it, 0:15:51.560 --> 0:15:52.880 and when they get in the car, they're like, Wow, 0:15:52.880 --> 0:15:53.680 this is really cool. 0:15:54.160 --> 0:15:54.360 You know. 0:15:54.400 --> 0:15:59.400 They like it. It's something different and delight usually translates into 0:15:59.600 --> 0:16:02.600 better and then hopefully more tips for the drivers, which 0:16:02.600 --> 0:16:02.960 is great. 0:16:03.640 --> 0:16:06.520 Now I do take Ubergreen most of the time, et cetera. 0:16:06.640 --> 0:16:07.880 I'm doing the experiment. 0:16:09.960 --> 0:16:13.920 But Uber provides electric option or a green option, only 0:16:13.920 --> 0:16:17.480 in two hundred cities. You operate in ten thousand cities. 0:16:18.240 --> 0:16:20.360 Now I've not done the math, but I'm pretty sure 0:16:20.600 --> 0:16:23.560 majority of those cities have electric cars now, if not 0:16:23.600 --> 0:16:25.880 all ten thousand, at least five thousand of them. So 0:16:26.000 --> 0:16:29.000 why is the green option still only in two hundred cities. 0:16:29.160 --> 0:16:32.080 Well, first of all, we focus on our largest cities, right, 0:16:32.120 --> 0:16:34.480 So the two hundred cities tend to be the cities 0:16:34.520 --> 0:16:38.520 that have the most rides, et cetera. And for us, 0:16:38.680 --> 0:16:41.000 it is about this flywheel, right. We've got to establish 0:16:41.040 --> 0:16:44.040 a supply. A supply you can build demand and the 0:16:44.080 --> 0:16:47.160 flywheel can start working. And the fact is that if 0:16:47.200 --> 0:16:49.280 you try to do things ten thousand times, you're going 0:16:49.320 --> 0:16:50.960 to be less successful if you try to do two 0:16:51.000 --> 0:16:54.240 hundred times. So our ambition is absolutely, we want to 0:16:54.240 --> 0:16:56.840 get to the ten thousand cities, but we have to 0:16:56.880 --> 0:17:01.760 operationalize all this on the ground, and the operationalizing can 0:17:01.880 --> 0:17:05.280 take some time. Now, I would tell you that a 0:17:05.320 --> 0:17:08.120 lot of people focus on cars. Uber is much more 0:17:08.119 --> 0:17:12.480 about other types of transportation. So in many markets now 0:17:12.680 --> 0:17:16.840 we're sponsoring kind of There are electric three wheelers in 0:17:16.840 --> 0:17:20.080 India and increasingly electric two wheelers in a lot of 0:17:20.160 --> 0:17:23.720 Latin American countries, and we're sponsoring that. But the big 0:17:23.760 --> 0:17:27.200 emissions come from cars, which is why the focus is there. 0:17:27.480 --> 0:17:30.360 There's also now an option in Uber in some places, 0:17:30.359 --> 0:17:32.560 at least it's there in the UK where you can 0:17:32.840 --> 0:17:35.359 book public transit. You can book a eurostart to go 0:17:35.400 --> 0:17:37.840 to Paris. How much of the business is coming from 0:17:37.920 --> 0:17:40.840 actually ordering a public transit from the platform. 0:17:40.920 --> 0:17:43.120 It's a small but growing part of our business and 0:17:43.200 --> 0:17:46.040 the growth rates are very impressive. And for us. The 0:17:46.080 --> 0:17:49.879 first theme for us is that our number one competitor 0:17:50.480 --> 0:17:54.720 is personal car ownership, right, and we want in the US, 0:17:54.960 --> 0:17:56.480 we want you to get rid of that second car, 0:17:57.119 --> 0:17:59.120 and in many other places in the world we want 0:17:59.119 --> 0:18:00.960 you to get rid of the car. You know, cars 0:18:00.960 --> 0:18:04.560 are utilized three to four percent of the time, very 0:18:04.560 --> 0:18:08.520 inefficient use of space, very inefficient use of emissions, if 0:18:08.520 --> 0:18:10.720 you want to call it that, et cetera. And so 0:18:11.160 --> 0:18:14.560 what we see is that in cities that have high 0:18:14.800 --> 0:18:20.240 public transit penetration, Uber does very well. Why because people 0:18:20.400 --> 0:18:23.600 use public transit often for community to work, et cetera. 0:18:24.160 --> 0:18:29.080 There are different circumstances where transit and Uber and trains, 0:18:29.520 --> 0:18:32.439 and for example here in London and a lot of 0:18:32.480 --> 0:18:38.119 other cities, line bikes can put together offerings on demand, 0:18:38.160 --> 0:18:43.280 offerings that can serve you in a multiplicity of situations 0:18:43.280 --> 0:18:44.200 that you might face. 0:18:44.440 --> 0:18:47.359 I've been in London for twelve years and I don't 0:18:47.359 --> 0:18:49.280 have a car, and one reason I don't have a 0:18:49.320 --> 0:18:50.919 car is because I can either get a taxi your 0:18:51.000 --> 0:18:53.880 right hailing option and rest of the time transit really work. 0:18:54.000 --> 0:18:58.120 So the theory that customer, so to speak, the. 0:18:58.000 --> 0:19:01.600 Theory makes sense to me. But there's still the goal 0:19:01.680 --> 0:19:04.080 that you have to try and get to electric and 0:19:04.680 --> 0:19:07.199 lobbying on your own is going to be one thing 0:19:07.240 --> 0:19:10.000 you're doing, but that's not going to take you all 0:19:10.000 --> 0:19:13.240 the way. The other thing you're doing now is you 0:19:13.320 --> 0:19:17.400 are partnering with automakers. So you announced a partnership with BYD, 0:19:17.640 --> 0:19:21.200 the Chinese electric car giant really now the world's largest 0:19:21.359 --> 0:19:24.200 electric car maker. Where you want to bring one hundred 0:19:24.240 --> 0:19:29.120 thousand cars onto the Uber platform from bad By when. 0:19:30.720 --> 0:19:32.760 I'd say by twenty thirty, although we don't have a 0:19:32.760 --> 0:19:37.120 specific timeframe there for BYD, but certainly our ambitions are significant, 0:19:37.680 --> 0:19:40.040 and we've always said that climate is a team sport. 0:19:40.280 --> 0:19:43.800 No one company can succeed here, and anyone's success kind 0:19:43.840 --> 0:19:46.840 of adds to the whole right. Climate success in the 0:19:46.960 --> 0:19:50.760 US helps China, Climate success in China helps Europe and 0:19:50.840 --> 0:19:54.439 vice versa. So really, in terms of the ecosystem, we 0:19:54.480 --> 0:19:58.040 need governments to play their part. We need OEMs to 0:19:58.160 --> 0:20:03.199 manufacture a four doable, high quality cars, and then we 0:20:03.240 --> 0:20:06.959 need the charging infrastructure to also come into play, not 0:20:07.119 --> 0:20:08.720 just in the center of cities where a lot of 0:20:09.320 --> 0:20:14.720 more fortunate people live, but in the neighborhoods and areas 0:20:15.000 --> 0:20:17.120 where our drivers live as well, many of whom don't 0:20:17.119 --> 0:20:21.240 have garages to be able to charge overnight. So we're 0:20:21.320 --> 0:20:26.000 working with obviously governments, with OEMs like BID and many 0:20:26.040 --> 0:20:30.760 other OEM partners with charging partners. We announced a great 0:20:31.080 --> 0:20:35.760 venture with Octopus Energy and BID and ourselves to bring 0:20:35.800 --> 0:20:40.760 a thousand chargers to our drivers at incredibly affordable rates 0:20:40.800 --> 0:20:43.800 as well, So it really is working with the ecosystems 0:20:43.800 --> 0:20:47.760 to drive success there. And Bid is a terrific manufacturer. 0:20:48.040 --> 0:20:50.960 They've got scale and they're building excellent cars. 0:20:54.560 --> 0:20:57.359 After the break, I asked Dara what a just climate 0:20:57.400 --> 0:21:01.200 transition would look like for Uber's workforce. By the way, 0:21:01.400 --> 0:21:03.640 if you've been enjoying this episode, please take a moment 0:21:03.680 --> 0:21:06.280 to rate and review the show on Spotify and Apple. 0:21:06.600 --> 0:21:16.560 It helps other listeners find the show. How are you 0:21:16.600 --> 0:21:20.200 going to manage geopolitical tensions that are rising with China 0:21:20.720 --> 0:21:24.480 with the West because your goal to go electric is 0:21:24.760 --> 0:21:28.119 sooner in Western markets in US, Canada and Europe you 0:21:28.160 --> 0:21:30.880 want to be electric by twenty thirty, whereas the rest 0:21:30.880 --> 0:21:34.880 of the world twenty forty. Of course, cheap Chinese evs 0:21:35.000 --> 0:21:39.040 that are good, safe, effective would help your goal, would 0:21:39.040 --> 0:21:41.320 make your life easier. But how will you manage it 0:21:41.359 --> 0:21:42.399 with the geopolitics? 0:21:42.680 --> 0:21:45.919 I think the good news is that there are many 0:21:46.040 --> 0:21:48.720 OEMs and local oem so for example, Tesla is a 0:21:48.800 --> 0:21:53.480 terrific OEM and very popular model in the US. Volkswagen 0:21:53.560 --> 0:21:58.119 and many other European manufacturers are also moving their ev 0:21:58.600 --> 0:22:02.480 offerings and broadening them in ways that are quite constructive. 0:22:03.040 --> 0:22:06.919 So I think their first approaches work with local OEMs 0:22:06.960 --> 0:22:12.119 and encourage them to keep making investments not just in evs, 0:22:12.720 --> 0:22:16.120 but also to develop secondary markets for evs as well. 0:22:16.160 --> 0:22:19.360 About two thirds of our drivers are buying used cars 0:22:19.440 --> 0:22:22.960 versus new cars, so that's an important development as well. 0:22:23.760 --> 0:22:28.680 I think from my standpoint, we can control geopolitics different countries, 0:22:28.720 --> 0:22:32.440 different nations or areas like the EU. They are going 0:22:32.480 --> 0:22:37.199 to make their decisions based on considerations that can't just 0:22:37.359 --> 0:22:43.480 take climate into account, their other considerations, their local manufacturing sectors, economies, etc. 0:22:44.520 --> 0:22:48.399 We think that we have enough flexibility with a player, 0:22:48.720 --> 0:22:52.119 with both local players and then Chinese players, to bring 0:22:52.160 --> 0:22:55.240 these vehicles to the world right and a BYD vehicle 0:22:55.280 --> 0:22:58.280 in Brazil is just as valuable as a BID vehicle 0:22:58.520 --> 0:23:04.239 in London as well. And while tariffs are not a 0:23:04.280 --> 0:23:07.520 good thing for the climate, they may be necessary based 0:23:07.560 --> 0:23:09.960