1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:04,520 Speaker 1: Welcome to Zero. I am Akshatrati. This week, can Uber 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 1: Go Green? It may surprise you to learn that Europe's 3 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:25,639 Speaker 1: biggest lobbyist for electric cars isn't an automaker or the 4 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:31,360 Speaker 1: battery industry. It's Uber. That's surprising because in recent months 5 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 1: there has been a slowdown in electric car sales and 6 00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 1: automakers want a reprieve on their green goals. Not Uber, 7 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:42,000 Speaker 1: though the right hailing company has been leading the charge 8 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:45,800 Speaker 1: to get regulators to change the rules and get more 9 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:49,640 Speaker 1: electric vehicles on the road. On this week's episode, I 10 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:53,639 Speaker 1: got to ask the company CEO, Dara Kosroshai about it. 11 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:57,680 Speaker 1: He was in London recently making the case that Uber 12 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 1: customers should op for the electric car in their app, 13 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 1: even if it means waiting a few extra minutes. As 14 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:09,040 Speaker 1: an occasional Uber taker, the green feature is something I 15 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:12,200 Speaker 1: am familiar with and it is a step in the 16 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:16,200 Speaker 1: right direction, But it's only available in two hundred cities 17 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:21,119 Speaker 1: out of the ten thousand that have Ubers. As you'll 18 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:24,679 Speaker 1: hear in the conversation. In twenty twenty, Uber set some 19 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:28,959 Speaker 1: big goals about going electric for twenty twenty five, twenty 20 00:01:28,959 --> 00:01:33,280 Speaker 1: thirty and twenty forty. It's unlikely that the company will 21 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 1: meet the twenty twenty five goals, and even the twenty 22 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:39,160 Speaker 1: thirty goals are going to be a stretch, but the 23 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:43,040 Speaker 1: company is sticking with them because uberc is going electric 24 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:46,759 Speaker 1: being good for business, not just for the planet. There 25 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 1: are other reasons to go electric. We talk about driver 26 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:52,040 Speaker 1: lesque cars and I tried one of those for the 27 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:55,280 Speaker 1: first time in San Francisco this summer, and we talk 28 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:58,600 Speaker 1: about flying taxis a climate solution. I haven't tried yet, 29 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:03,000 Speaker 1: but we and stop. There few CEOs of major companies 30 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:05,440 Speaker 1: sit down with a climate journalist, so I asked him 31 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:10,000 Speaker 1: about carbon accounting and also about a just transition. That's 32 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:13,560 Speaker 1: why this is one of our longer episodes. Whether you're 33 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:16,079 Speaker 1: a fan of uber or not, what the company does 34 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:35,800 Speaker 1: on climate will have a big impact. Welcome to Zero, Dara, 35 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:36,400 Speaker 1: thank you. 36 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:37,760 Speaker 2: It's great to be here now. 37 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:41,960 Speaker 1: I'm an engineer. I studied chemical engineering. You're an engineer. 38 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 1: You studied electrical engineering. And sometimes I think about the background, 39 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:50,119 Speaker 1: the education and what that brings to the jobs we do, 40 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:52,880 Speaker 1: and for me, it's very much being informed by the science, 41 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 1: being curious about the world, asking good and hard questions. 42 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 1: Is there anything from your engineering days This is a 43 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 1: while back that you still carry in running a company 44 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:07,400 Speaker 1: that's one hundred and fifty billion dollars worth and operates 45 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 1: in seventy countries. 46 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 2: Very much so, very much so. And for me, what 47 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:15,320 Speaker 2: engineering taught me was how to break down complex problems 48 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:19,480 Speaker 2: into much simpler artifacts and then solve those artifacts and 49 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 2: then recompute into a more complex answer. I still to 50 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:29,079 Speaker 2: this day remember And it's a very basic precept vector math, right, 51 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:32,080 Speaker 2: which is you look at three dimensional problems. And for me, 52 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 2: I was always like challenging myself figure out the answer 53 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 2: to the three dimensional problem. When you break it down 54 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 2: to single dimensionary problems, you get very simple answers and 55 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 2: you can work your way through it. And I think 56 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:47,760 Speaker 2: with business and in many things in life, people tend 57 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:51,680 Speaker 2: to over complicate things and sometimes people want to They 58 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 2: almost want to show off their ability to understand complexity, etc. 59 00:03:56,120 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 2: Those are people who I think succeed and engineering really 60 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 2: taught me that break down the problem, make it simple 61 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 2: for yourself, understand what's core and what's not core, and 62 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:09,640 Speaker 2: then move on the. 63 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:11,680 Speaker 1: Other thing we do as engineers is solve problems. 64 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:13,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, And have problems. 65 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 1: When you were made CEO of Uber, there were plenty 66 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:18,559 Speaker 1: of problems you had to deal with. There was Uber 67 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:21,480 Speaker 1: having the reputation of a toxic culture. It seems you've 68 00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:23,839 Speaker 1: changed that and made it a happier place to work. 69 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:27,840 Speaker 1: Then during the pandemic, people stopped taking ubers because well, 70 00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 1: we were all locked down and you had to pivot 71 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 1: to deliveries. And that's now nearly half of your revenues. 72 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:38,880 Speaker 1: And in that same period you also set out ambitious 73 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:41,960 Speaker 1: climate goals. This is a climate podcast, we're going to 74 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 1: talk about that. 75 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:42,920 Speaker 2: Sure. 76 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:46,599 Speaker 1: So in twenty twenty, Uber pledged to be all electric 77 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:50,360 Speaker 1: in Europe, US and Canada by twenty thirty and everywhere 78 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:54,559 Speaker 1: else by twenty forty. The company also committed eight hundred 79 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:58,280 Speaker 1: million dollars toward that goal by twenty twenty five. Your 80 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:01,920 Speaker 1: latest sustainability report for twenty twenty three says you spent 81 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 1: about four hundred and forty million dollars. What have you 82 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:07,240 Speaker 1: put it to work? 83 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:12,400 Speaker 2: The most significant part of our investment has been incentives 84 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:17,320 Speaker 2: for drivers to essentially make more money per ride. I 85 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:21,120 Speaker 2: think that everyone in terms of these climate goals has 86 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:25,760 Speaker 2: had really good intentions, but they will remain good intentions 87 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:31,279 Speaker 2: until and unless you can create economic flywheels to really 88 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 2: start to scale those ambitions into the reality of business. 89 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:40,920 Speaker 2: And for our business, there's a flywheel that has to happen, right, 90 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 2: is if you want more riders to take electric rides, 91 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:48,360 Speaker 2: you actually have to have drivers who are driving evs 92 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:51,240 Speaker 2: and are hybrids to start with as well. And you 93 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:53,600 Speaker 2: need the supply in order to create the demand. If 94 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:55,599 Speaker 2: you don't have enough supply, then if someone asks for 95 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:57,880 Speaker 2: an Uber Green, they may be waiting twelve thirteen minutes. 96 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:00,080 Speaker 2: That's not good enough. So we had to get the 97 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 2: economic flywheel going. And our business is always starts with supply. 98 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 2: How many drivers, quality drivers can we get on the platform. 99 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:12,600 Speaker 2: As it related to climate, it's how many drivers can 100 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:17,720 Speaker 2: we convince to buy the next vehicle, make that purchase 101 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 2: an EV And as a result, we have to make 102 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:25,000 Speaker 2: it economically attractive to these drivers. Their vehicles are their offices. 103 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:27,719 Speaker 2: They make a living with these vehicles. So the majority 104 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 2: of our investment has gone to create incentives per ride, 105 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 2: incentives for drivers who are driving EV on Uber to 106 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 2: make more money. And those incentives originally started fifty cents 107 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 2: a ride. Now in the US it's based on a 108 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:45,480 Speaker 2: certain number of rides. You make a special incentive if 109 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 2: you have over two hundred rides, and we have these 110 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:51,920 Speaker 2: incentives all over the world. That makes driving an EV 111 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 2: on a per trip basis more profitable for the average 112 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:58,279 Speaker 2: Uber driver. That allows them to afford to pay somewhat 113 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:01,000 Speaker 2: more for those evs because they do tend to be 114 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:03,720 Speaker 2: more expensive. There is in a secondhand market, and that 115 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 2: creates a flywheel that we're talking about. 116 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 1: There's also the question of the upfront cost, because if 117 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:11,240 Speaker 1: they have to get that extra earning, they have to 118 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:14,679 Speaker 1: buy that car. And one hope was that you would 119 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:18,680 Speaker 1: charge say a Londoner, which is me, when I take 120 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 1: an Uber here, I pay a clean air fee and 121 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:24,680 Speaker 1: that goes into a pot that would help subsidize the 122 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:27,960 Speaker 1: buying of the vehicle because it still is on an 123 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:30,240 Speaker 1: upfront basis most of the time a little more expensive 124 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:34,280 Speaker 1: than your gasoline car. Has that happened. Have you helped 125 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:38,559 Speaker 1: drivers subsidize the purchase of the vehicle, not just once 126 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 1: they have the vehicle, actually make more money and how 127 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 1: many electric vehicles have you helped? 128 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:45,760 Speaker 2: Very much? So? So the London has been a huge 129 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:48,840 Speaker 2: success for us. If you step back. Right now, the 130 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:52,320 Speaker 2: average Uber driver is moving over to EV's five times 131 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:55,480 Speaker 2: faster than the average driver. That's a big success, but 132 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 2: still we got a long way to go. About ten 133 00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:02,240 Speaker 2: percent of or overall miles or EV in Europe and California, 134 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 2: it's closer to twenty percent. Here in London, we're approaching 135 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:08,800 Speaker 2: a third of our miles being EV. A big part 136 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:11,880 Speaker 2: of that was a clean air fund where we are 137 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:14,560 Speaker 2: reinvesting that clean air fund to make it easier for 138 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:17,520 Speaker 2: drivers to buy vehicles. There are great deals going on 139 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:19,840 Speaker 2: with Kias right now in London. It's pretty extraordinary you 140 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 2: see on the streets here. So that has definitely been 141 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:25,559 Speaker 2: a success, and I think London again was a tip 142 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:30,760 Speaker 2: of the spear, so to speak, our top marketplace. More generally, 143 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:33,800 Speaker 2: what we're trying to do is we're investing in the 144 00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:37,319 Speaker 2: per trip incentive and then we're working with our OEM 145 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:42,840 Speaker 2: partners to secure discounts on purchase of the vehicles. We 146 00:08:42,920 --> 00:08:46,240 Speaker 2: also a lot of our drivers may not want to 147 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 2: jump into EV's cold, so to speak, so we've also 148 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:53,720 Speaker 2: established rental programs. For example, Hurts is a big partner 149 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 2: for us that allow drivers to kind of try before 150 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 2: you buy, Understand what it means to drive an EV 151 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 2: some of them have charging anxiety, etc. Understand where chargers 152 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:08,120 Speaker 2: are available, how much time it takes, and then switch 153 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:10,840 Speaker 2: over from a rental to a purchase as well. So 154 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:13,839 Speaker 2: hopefully we can work with industry to make it more affordable, 155 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:17,000 Speaker 2: and then we're going to put our investment, the majority 156 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:18,959 Speaker 2: of our investment on a per ride basis. 157 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:21,840 Speaker 1: But how many drivers have said that they've used your 158 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:23,720 Speaker 1: subsidy to actually buy an electric vehicle? 159 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 2: So one hundred and eighty two thousand drivers are now 160 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:32,000 Speaker 2: on evs on the platform. It's about three times what 161 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:34,240 Speaker 2: it was last year when I was here for first 162 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:39,280 Speaker 2: Go Get event. How many specific drivers have bought specifically 163 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:42,199 Speaker 2: because of our discounts, I actually don't know. My guess 164 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 2: is it's a significant number. But is it over fifty 165 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:48,000 Speaker 2: or fifty or below fifty, I'm not sure. 166 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:52,439 Speaker 1: About ten percent of all miles driven are electric now 167 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:55,440 Speaker 1: on the Uber platform. London is far ahead. 168 00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 2: That's a third. 169 00:09:56,960 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 1: But the target one you'd set it was for London 170 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 1: to be one h percent electric by twenty twenty five. 171 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 1: Even if it's the end of twenty twenty five, that's 172 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:07,320 Speaker 1: you know, fifteen months away, how are you going to 173 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:09,480 Speaker 1: go from a third to one hundred percent. 174 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:11,640 Speaker 2: I think those targets at this point are going to 175 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:13,960 Speaker 2: be very difficult to hit for us. And you know 176 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:16,679 Speaker 2: the fact is that I've always said that climate is 177 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:19,400 Speaker 2: a team sport, and we need government to come in, 178 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 2: we need industry to come in. We certainly are leaning 179 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:24,840 Speaker 2: in with our own pocketboats and with a bunch of 180 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:28,880 Speaker 2: our innovation as focused on making evs more delightful, available 181 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:32,480 Speaker 2: for everybody. So while I think those twenty twenty five 182 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:35,079 Speaker 2: targets will be very challenging for us to hit, we 183 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:37,760 Speaker 2: got twenty thirty targets. We got twenty forty targets, and 184 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:42,160 Speaker 2: for us, you know, these targets drive outsize ambition at 185 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 2: the company. One of the wonderful things that I love 186 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:47,680 Speaker 2: about Uber is like we put these targets in place, 187 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:51,959 Speaker 2: the whole team rallies behind them. It excites everyone. We 188 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:56,760 Speaker 2: have a new sustainability leader, Rebecca, who came from Tesla 189 00:10:56,800 --> 00:10:58,600 Speaker 2: as well, which is one of the leading companies in 190 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:01,439 Speaker 2: that space. So you know, we're going to push to 191 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:03,600 Speaker 2: hit those targets. Twenty twenty five is going to be hard, 192 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 2: but we got our twenty thirty targets that are ambitious, 193 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:08,839 Speaker 2: and certainly twenty forty targets that are both ambitious and 194 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:09,640 Speaker 2: I think doable. 195 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:12,320 Speaker 1: Over the past two years, we've seen a number of 196 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:17,559 Speaker 1: pioneering sustainability companies face the kinds of challenge you're facing, 197 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:21,440 Speaker 1: which is set out an ambitious goal. Maybe you're not 198 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:23,320 Speaker 1: going to be able to hit it, or maybe you're 199 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:25,920 Speaker 1: able to hit it, but in the process you've had 200 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 1: to invest money to get there, while your competitors have not. 201 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:32,840 Speaker 1: So the pioneers get punished one way or another, whether 202 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:36,439 Speaker 1: they meet the goal or they don't. And a Cambridge 203 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:41,040 Speaker 1: University report that just recently came out said that pioneering 204 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:44,720 Speaker 1: companies shouldn't be punished. Instead, one way out for them 205 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 1: is to lobby governments to raise the ambition for everybody 206 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:51,800 Speaker 1: to level the playing field for your sector. And that 207 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:55,720 Speaker 1: is something you're doing now. You announced in September that 208 00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:59,959 Speaker 1: you warn the European Union to have all right heling 209 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:03,640 Speaker 1: be electric by twenty thirty, and you say climate is 210 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:06,920 Speaker 1: a team sport. How many other right healing companies or 211 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:09,280 Speaker 1: taxi companies have joined that lobbying effort. 212 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 2: I'm not aware of any at this point. And you know, 213 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 2: I do think that while short term some of the 214 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:20,679 Speaker 2: pioneering companies, as you have said, may have a disadvantage 215 00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:24,320 Speaker 2: because they're investing where others aren't, I do think that 216 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:29,400 Speaker 2: long term climate investment makes sense. Right. It's ultimately when 217 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 2: you look into EV today for an Uber driver, we're 218 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:38,480 Speaker 2: not telling the Uber driver to buy an EV because 219 00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:41,319 Speaker 2: it's good for the climate now it is, or because 220 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:43,400 Speaker 2: it's going to help us hit our targets. It is. 221 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:45,720 Speaker 2: You know that that purchase is going to help us 222 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:47,760 Speaker 2: hit our targets. We're telling it to buy an EV 223 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:51,480 Speaker 2: because it makes sense. And if you look over a 224 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:54,640 Speaker 2: two year to a five year timeframe, you take an 225 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:59,040 Speaker 2: into account cost of petrol versus charging, you look at 226 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:03,079 Speaker 2: maintenance costs, it actually makes economic sense for a driver 227 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:06,120 Speaker 2: to buy an EV. And so I think actually the 228 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:09,040 Speaker 2: formula that we have is yes, this is the right 229 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 2: thing to do. It is can we afford to invest 230 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:15,839 Speaker 2: eight hundred million? We can, and we have. Now it's 231 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:17,679 Speaker 2: about making the economics work, and I think we're on 232 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:18,520 Speaker 2: a good path. 233 00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:23,719 Speaker 1: As a platform, and as the largest right hailing platform, 234 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:28,280 Speaker 1: you also have consumers who may not think green. But 235 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:31,200 Speaker 1: if it shows up as the first option, which is 236 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:34,480 Speaker 1: kind of the default, and default is a very powerful 237 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:36,760 Speaker 1: place to be. It really is you can actually drive 238 00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:41,280 Speaker 1: behavior change. Why just making it easier for somebody to 239 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:43,440 Speaker 1: get an electric noweres are you doing that? 240 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:47,760 Speaker 2: Well, Actually, what we're doing now is that many times 241 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:51,000 Speaker 2: when you order a regular Uber X, you're gonna get 242 00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:54,439 Speaker 2: a Tesla or you will get an EV So it's 243 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 2: happening to me. Yeah, I mean, if you're trying to change, 244 00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:01,560 Speaker 2: you should have used an Uber Green. But that's okay, yeah, exactly. 245 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:04,760 Speaker 2: So you know, we run this marketplace, and the marketplace 246 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:07,160 Speaker 2: essentially is very flexible in terms of the kind of 247 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:10,679 Speaker 2: cars that we can dispatch you and obviously we want 248 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:14,720 Speaker 2: to dispatch an efficient dispatch that's within five six minutes, 249 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:18,559 Speaker 2: so the driver isn't driving them any empty miles. It's 250 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:21,400 Speaker 2: important for congestion in the city and emissions in a 251 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:25,400 Speaker 2: city as well. But what we're seeing is that one 252 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:30,200 Speaker 2: in four Uber customers actually has had their first experience 253 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:33,480 Speaker 2: with an EV on Uber. So a lot of what 254 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:36,560 Speaker 2: we talk about is moving drivers over. But as you know, 255 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:39,720 Speaker 2: the EV experience as a writer is really nice. It's quiet, 256 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:44,160 Speaker 2: the cars are new, spacious interiors, especially the backseat, et cetera. 257 00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:48,200 Speaker 2: So I do think that there are these preconceived notions 258 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:51,800 Speaker 2: about EV's. I think unfortunately EV's have to some extent 259 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:54,720 Speaker 2: become politicized. Right is are you on the right or left? 260 00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:57,840 Speaker 2: Et cetera. They're just really good products. So to the 261 00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 2: extent that we can increase exposure to this next generation 262 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:05,720 Speaker 2: of vehicles, which we truly feel are a better way 263 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:08,040 Speaker 2: going forward and good for the environment, then it can 264 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:09,200 Speaker 2: be a win win for everybody. 265 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:12,080 Speaker 1: And I've heard you say that on the Uber platform, 266 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:17,840 Speaker 1: electric rides get higher tips. Yes, is that the reason 267 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:20,120 Speaker 1: why they get higher tips? That is just a better ride, 268 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:22,200 Speaker 1: or is it that the people who are choosing it 269 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:25,240 Speaker 1: are just I don't know, I'm making a moral judgment here, 270 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:28,240 Speaker 1: but more moral people who want to support drivers more. 271 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:31,000 Speaker 2: We think it's a combination of both. You know, it's 272 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:34,320 Speaker 2: not a directly causal relationship, so there's some correlation there. 273 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 2: I think you're absolutely right. But the experience is a 274 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:41,280 Speaker 2: good experience. The ride is a really cool ride. And 275 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:46,080 Speaker 2: I drive a Tesla, and I'll tell you I've heard 276 00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:49,000 Speaker 2: many times people, first of all, that they have trouble 277 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 2: with the handle, although they're getting much better at it, 278 00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:52,880 Speaker 2: and when they get in the car, they're like, Wow, 279 00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:53,680 Speaker 2: this is really cool. 280 00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 1: You know. 281 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:59,400 Speaker 2: They like it. It's something different and delight usually translates into 282 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:02,600 Speaker 2: better and then hopefully more tips for the drivers, which 283 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:02,960 Speaker 2: is great. 284 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:06,520 Speaker 1: Now I do take Ubergreen most of the time, et cetera. 285 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 2: I'm doing the experiment. 286 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:13,920 Speaker 1: But Uber provides electric option or a green option, only 287 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:17,480 Speaker 1: in two hundred cities. You operate in ten thousand cities. 288 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:20,360 Speaker 1: Now I've not done the math, but I'm pretty sure 289 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:23,560 Speaker 1: majority of those cities have electric cars now, if not 290 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:25,880 Speaker 1: all ten thousand, at least five thousand of them. So 291 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 1: why is the green option still only in two hundred cities. 292 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:32,080 Speaker 2: Well, first of all, we focus on our largest cities, right, 293 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:34,480 Speaker 2: So the two hundred cities tend to be the cities 294 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:38,520 Speaker 2: that have the most rides, et cetera. And for us, 295 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:41,000 Speaker 2: it is about this flywheel, right. We've got to establish 296 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:44,040 Speaker 2: a supply. A supply you can build demand and the 297 00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:47,160 Speaker 2: flywheel can start working. And the fact is that if 298 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:49,280 Speaker 2: you try to do things ten thousand times, you're going 299 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:50,960 Speaker 2: to be less successful if you try to do two 300 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:54,240 Speaker 2: hundred times. So our ambition is absolutely, we want to 301 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:56,840 Speaker 2: get to the ten thousand cities, but we have to 302 00:16:56,880 --> 00:17:01,760 Speaker 2: operationalize all this on the ground, and the operationalizing can 303 00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:05,280 Speaker 2: take some time. Now, I would tell you that a 304 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:08,120 Speaker 2: lot of people focus on cars. Uber is much more 305 00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:12,480 Speaker 2: about other types of transportation. So in many markets now 306 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:16,840 Speaker 2: we're sponsoring kind of There are electric three wheelers in 307 00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:20,080 Speaker 2: India and increasingly electric two wheelers in a lot of 308 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:23,720 Speaker 2: Latin American countries, and we're sponsoring that. But the big 309 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:27,200 Speaker 2: emissions come from cars, which is why the focus is there. 310 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:30,360 Speaker 1: There's also now an option in Uber in some places, 311 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:32,560 Speaker 1: at least it's there in the UK where you can 312 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:35,359 Speaker 1: book public transit. You can book a eurostart to go 313 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:37,840 Speaker 1: to Paris. How much of the business is coming from 314 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 1: actually ordering a public transit from the platform. 315 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:43,120 Speaker 2: It's a small but growing part of our business and 316 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:46,040 Speaker 2: the growth rates are very impressive. And for us. The 317 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:49,879 Speaker 2: first theme for us is that our number one competitor 318 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:54,720 Speaker 2: is personal car ownership, right, and we want in the US, 319 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:56,480 Speaker 2: we want you to get rid of that second car, 320 00:17:57,119 --> 00:17:59,120 Speaker 2: and in many other places in the world we want 321 00:17:59,119 --> 00:18:00,960 Speaker 2: you to get rid of the car. You know, cars 322 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:04,560 Speaker 2: are utilized three to four percent of the time, very 323 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 2: inefficient use of space, very inefficient use of emissions, if 324 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:10,720 Speaker 2: you want to call it that, et cetera. And so 325 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 2: what we see is that in cities that have high 326 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:20,240 Speaker 2: public transit penetration, Uber does very well. Why because people 327 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 2: use public transit often for community to work, et cetera. 328 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 2: There are different circumstances where transit and Uber and trains, 329 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:32,439 Speaker 2: and for example here in London and a lot of 330 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:38,119 Speaker 2: other cities, line bikes can put together offerings on demand, 331 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:43,280 Speaker 2: offerings that can serve you in a multiplicity of situations 332 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:44,200 Speaker 2: that you might face. 333 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:47,359 Speaker 1: I've been in London for twelve years and I don't 334 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:49,280 Speaker 1: have a car, and one reason I don't have a 335 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:50,919 Speaker 1: car is because I can either get a taxi your 336 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:53,880 Speaker 1: right hailing option and rest of the time transit really work. 337 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:58,120 Speaker 2: So the theory that customer, so to speak, the. 338 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:01,600 Speaker 1: Theory makes sense to me. But there's still the goal 339 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:04,080 Speaker 1: that you have to try and get to electric and 340 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:07,199 Speaker 1: lobbying on your own is going to be one thing 341 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:10,000 Speaker 1: you're doing, but that's not going to take you all 342 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:13,240 Speaker 1: the way. The other thing you're doing now is you 343 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:17,400 Speaker 1: are partnering with automakers. So you announced a partnership with BYD, 344 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:21,200 Speaker 1: the Chinese electric car giant really now the world's largest 345 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:24,200 Speaker 1: electric car maker. Where you want to bring one hundred 346 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:29,120 Speaker 1: thousand cars onto the Uber platform from bad By when. 347 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:32,760 Speaker 2: I'd say by twenty thirty, although we don't have a 348 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:37,120 Speaker 2: specific timeframe there for BYD, but certainly our ambitions are significant, 349 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:40,040 Speaker 2: and we've always said that climate is a team sport. 350 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:43,800 Speaker 2: No one company can succeed here, and anyone's success kind 351 00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:46,840 Speaker 2: of adds to the whole right. Climate success in the 352 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:50,760 Speaker 2: US helps China, Climate success in China helps Europe and 353 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:54,439 Speaker 2: vice versa. So really, in terms of the ecosystem, we 354 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:58,040 Speaker 2: need governments to play their part. We need OEMs to 355 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:03,199 Speaker 2: manufacture a four doable, high quality cars, and then we 356 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:06,959 Speaker 2: need the charging infrastructure to also come into play, not 357 00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:08,720 Speaker 2: just in the center of cities where a lot of 358 00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:14,720 Speaker 2: more fortunate people live, but in the neighborhoods and areas 359 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:17,120 Speaker 2: where our drivers live as well, many of whom don't 360 00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:21,240 Speaker 2: have garages to be able to charge overnight. So we're 361 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:26,000 Speaker 2: working with obviously governments, with OEMs like BID and many 362 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 2: other OEM partners with charging partners. We announced a great 363 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:35,760 Speaker 2: venture with Octopus Energy and BID and ourselves to bring 364 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:40,760 Speaker 2: a thousand chargers to our drivers at incredibly affordable rates 365 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:43,800 Speaker 2: as well, So it really is working with the ecosystems 366 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:47,760 Speaker 2: to drive success there. And Bid is a terrific manufacturer. 367 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:50,960 Speaker 2: They've got scale and they're building excellent cars. 368 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:57,359 Speaker 1: After the break, I asked Dara what a just climate 369 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:01,200 Speaker 1: transition would look like for Uber's workforce. By the way, 370 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:03,640 Speaker 1: if you've been enjoying this episode, please take a moment 371 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:06,280 Speaker 1: to rate and review the show on Spotify and Apple. 372 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:16,560 Speaker 1: It helps other listeners find the show. How are you 373 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:20,200 Speaker 1: going to manage geopolitical tensions that are rising with China 374 00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:24,480 Speaker 1: with the West because your goal to go electric is 375 00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:28,119 Speaker 1: sooner in Western markets in US, Canada and Europe you 376 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:30,880 Speaker 1: want to be electric by twenty thirty, whereas the rest 377 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:34,880 Speaker 1: of the world twenty forty. Of course, cheap Chinese evs 378 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:39,040 Speaker 1: that are good, safe, effective would help your goal, would 379 00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:41,320 Speaker 1: make your life easier. But how will you manage it 380 00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:42,399 Speaker 1: with the geopolitics? 381 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:45,919 Speaker 2: I think the good news is that there are many 382 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:48,720 Speaker 2: OEMs and local oem so for example, Tesla is a 383 00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:53,480 Speaker 2: terrific OEM and very popular model in the US. Volkswagen 384 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:58,119 Speaker 2: and many other European manufacturers are also moving their ev 385 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:02,480 Speaker 2: offerings and broadening them in ways that are quite constructive. 386 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:06,919 Speaker 2: So I think their first approaches work with local OEMs 387 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:12,119 Speaker 2: and encourage them to keep making investments not just in evs, 388 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:16,120 Speaker 2: but also to develop secondary markets for evs as well. 389 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:19,360 Speaker 2: About two thirds of our drivers are buying used cars 390 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:22,960 Speaker 2: versus new cars, so that's an important development as well. 391 00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:28,680 Speaker 2: I think from my standpoint, we can control geopolitics different countries, 392 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:32,440 Speaker 2: different nations or areas like the EU. They are going 393 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:37,199 Speaker 2: to make their decisions based on considerations that can't just 394 00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:43,480 Speaker 2: take climate into account, their other considerations, their local manufacturing sectors, economies, etc. 395 00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:48,399 Speaker 2: We think that we have enough flexibility with a player, 396 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:52,119 Speaker 2: with both local players and then Chinese players, to bring 397 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:55,240 Speaker 2: these vehicles to the world right and a BYD vehicle 398 00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:58,280 Speaker 2: in Brazil is just as valuable as a BID vehicle 399 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:04,239 Speaker 2: in London as well. And while tariffs are not a 400 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:07,520 Speaker 2: good thing for the climate, they may be necessary based 401 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:09,960 Speaker 2: on what governments are trying to achieve. We think we 402 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:13,600 Speaker 2: can work with kind of reality as it is and 403 00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:16,439 Speaker 2: accomplish our goals, you know, with or without tariff so 404 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:16,840 Speaker 2: to speak. 405 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:20,919 Speaker 1: We've talked about electric vehicles as a new term climate solution. 406 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:26,080 Speaker 1: You have clear targets, but autonomy and autonomous vehicles can 407 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:30,000 Speaker 1: also help meet your goal. They are more energy efficient 408 00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:33,320 Speaker 1: and they can be cheaper in the long term, and 409 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:35,240 Speaker 1: that can be a game changer to try and make 410 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:40,320 Speaker 1: electric cars a reality. I rode in a Weimo in 411 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:43,320 Speaker 1: San Francisco two months ago, I think, and I was amazed. 412 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:44,800 Speaker 2: It was great and how. 413 00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:47,880 Speaker 1: Well it managed. It felt like it was a human 414 00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:51,480 Speaker 1: driving the car, but it felt weird when the steering 415 00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:54,040 Speaker 1: wheel was moving on its own. Yes, and you know, 416 00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:57,040 Speaker 1: I hadn't done one before, so I did go in 417 00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:01,280 Speaker 1: with trepidation, but I walked out just after one and 418 00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:05,040 Speaker 1: I felt good. It was a wow moment. 419 00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:05,760 Speaker 2: It really was. 420 00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:08,200 Speaker 1: And I think about climate solutions all the time. There 421 00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:10,439 Speaker 1: are plenty of good ones, but very few where I 422 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:16,679 Speaker 1: go wow, and autonomous vehicles can do that. What is 423 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:21,000 Speaker 1: your vision for Uber and bringing autonomous vehicles to people? 424 00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:24,320 Speaker 2: So if I step back, we think that the future 425 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:31,600 Speaker 2: for Uber is electric, shared, autonomous, and ultimately multimodal as well. 426 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:37,000 Speaker 2: We think autonomous brings incredible promise in terms of safety 427 00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:42,600 Speaker 2: and affordability and availability. Ultimately, the autonomous driver it's a 428 00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:45,119 Speaker 2: single driver that just keeps getting better and better and 429 00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:49,000 Speaker 2: better year after year after year. Versus newer drivers who 430 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:50,960 Speaker 2: have to learn every single time they have to earn 431 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:53,560 Speaker 2: their license. The autonomous drivers learned its license and is 432 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:56,040 Speaker 2: just going to get better. So for us, safety is 433 00:24:56,119 --> 00:25:01,000 Speaker 2: incredibly important here. Their footprint is electric with which is great, 434 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 2: and I share the same exact experience when I first 435 00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:08,800 Speaker 2: took that Weayma it is a delightful, wonderful experience. So 436 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 2: I think it goes back to what I was talking 437 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:16,760 Speaker 2: about in terms of evs. The best way to drive 438 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:21,480 Speaker 2: EV adoption is if the product is great, and the 439 00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:24,439 Speaker 2: product is delightful, and the product is a product that 440 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:27,440 Speaker 2: drivers love or riders love, and so I do think 441 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:30,840 Speaker 2: that automis can be a complimentary part of the solution, 442 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:34,520 Speaker 2: which is, if it's a great experience and it happens 443 00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:37,800 Speaker 2: to be electric, why the heck not? Why isn't that great? 444 00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:42,000 Speaker 2: It also make the streets safer. It'll also hopefully help 445 00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:45,320 Speaker 2: not you, but many give up their personal car as well. 446 00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:48,639 Speaker 2: So it is absolutely part of the formula, but it 447 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:51,360 Speaker 2: is again it's a part we have to go electric 448 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:56,240 Speaker 2: shared we think is a really important part of sustainability 449 00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:59,520 Speaker 2: as well, so we're investing actively in building up uber 450 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:02,879 Speaker 2: x share. Now it's combustion vehicles and evs as well, 451 00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:05,400 Speaker 2: but to get two or more riders in a car 452 00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:09,439 Speaker 2: really helps the climate footprint. Then you have autonomous, and 453 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:12,000 Speaker 2: then of course you have multimodal, which is transit, et cetera. 454 00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:14,439 Speaker 2: All of it has to come together in order for 455 00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:16,760 Speaker 2: us to get to the promised land, so to speak. 456 00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:21,160 Speaker 1: Uber was early in autonomy, and then it got out 457 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:25,680 Speaker 1: of autonomy. You sold your business in twenty twenty, and 458 00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:29,720 Speaker 1: now you're back in it with partners, you have way 459 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:34,840 Speaker 1: more coming onto your platform. You're working with Cruise. Do 460 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:37,240 Speaker 1: you regret losing the edge? 461 00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:40,080 Speaker 2: No, no, not at all. And I would tell you 462 00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:42,959 Speaker 2: that first and foremost in terms of that decision was 463 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:49,400 Speaker 2: really what our expertise as a company afforded us. Uber 464 00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:54,720 Speaker 2: is a software company. We move fast. We're constantly innovating, 465 00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:59,040 Speaker 2: pushing the envelope, and that kind of speed and that 466 00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:04,760 Speaker 2: kind of culture is difficult to achieve, both with software 467 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:07,359 Speaker 2: and hardware. There are very few companies that have done it. 468 00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:10,639 Speaker 2: The pacing of building autonomous, the care that you have 469 00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:13,159 Speaker 2: to take the pacing of building hardware. You know you 470 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:15,600 Speaker 2: take kind of one shot every three years, so to speak, 471 00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:20,119 Speaker 2: in terms of platforms. It requires a level of perfection 472 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:24,200 Speaker 2: and a level of planning that wasn't part of the 473 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:27,560 Speaker 2: Uber DNA. You know, part of innovation is making all 474 00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:30,480 Speaker 2: kinds of mistakes and being okay with it, and being 475 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,720 Speaker 2: okay with that process of making a mistake, learning, gaining 476 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:35,720 Speaker 2: better the next time, the next time, the next time. 477 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:40,639 Speaker 2: And the cultures in terms of how we were building 478 00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:43,439 Speaker 2: for marketplace and for eats, was very different from the 479 00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:45,679 Speaker 2: culture of how we were building for Autonomous and they 480 00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:49,720 Speaker 2: are almost two different companies. And ultimately we decided that, 481 00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:53,280 Speaker 2: you know, the main quest for Uber was to build 482 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:57,200 Speaker 2: this marketplace that allows anyone to get anything, go anywhere, 483 00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:01,960 Speaker 2: really wire up and on demand and logistics system for 484 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:04,560 Speaker 2: your local city, and then drive it to a sustainable 485 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:09,560 Speaker 2: future as well. And when I look at the autonomous players, 486 00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:13,159 Speaker 2: you know, the only thing Weimo's working on is autonomy. 487 00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:16,119 Speaker 2: The only thing Cruise is working on is autonomy. Or 488 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:20,000 Speaker 2: we ride or a wave here. That's their singular passion. 489 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:23,360 Speaker 2: And I think companies that have singular passions tend to succeed. 490 00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:26,000 Speaker 2: It was time for us to figure out what our 491 00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:28,600 Speaker 2: singular passion is and just like we work with many 492 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:31,160 Speaker 2: OEMs and many drivers out there, we're going to work 493 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:32,520 Speaker 2: with many autonomous partners. 494 00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:36,639 Speaker 1: Now they're on your platform in some places. So right now, 495 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:39,800 Speaker 1: what is the hold up for you to scale it quickly? 496 00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:44,000 Speaker 2: The biggest holdup is availability of autonomous vehicles right it is. 497 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:48,120 Speaker 2: The technology is still proving itself out. There are very 498 00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:51,360 Speaker 2: few players who have taken the driver out. Wemo is 499 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:54,760 Speaker 2: one of them. So it really is the pace of 500 00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:59,200 Speaker 2: maturity for autonomous and the regulatory framework as well. Not 501 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:02,840 Speaker 2: every every country or city has the kind of regulatory 502 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:05,719 Speaker 2: environment that you need. That is the real hold up. 503 00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:09,960 Speaker 2: And then of course there's hardware. Right these are very 504 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:15,440 Speaker 2: expensive vehicles today. The economics of autonomous don't pencil out 505 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:17,680 Speaker 2: based on the revenue you can make on ride share. 506 00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:20,400 Speaker 2: I do think they will pencil out over the next 507 00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:25,000 Speaker 2: five to fifteen years. So it's a combination of technology, hardware, platform, 508 00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:27,000 Speaker 2: and ultimately economics that'll make it work. 509 00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:30,440 Speaker 1: Now. The thing that spooks people, and it did when 510 00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:32,920 Speaker 1: I sat in a Waydow, is that there is no 511 00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:36,760 Speaker 1: human there. And when an autonomous card gets into an 512 00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:39,960 Speaker 1: accident and someone gets killed or hurt, which has happened 513 00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:42,760 Speaker 1: in the past. Regulators can come down, and they can 514 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,800 Speaker 1: come down pretty hard. They can shut down a service 515 00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:48,600 Speaker 1: which they've done, or cause a recall. And the limited 516 00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:52,000 Speaker 1: number of autonomous vehicles that there are, in one way, 517 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:57,600 Speaker 1: it might feel unfair because humans probably and in numbers, 518 00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:02,320 Speaker 1: actually make more mistakes, yes than robots do now. But 519 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:05,600 Speaker 1: should we hold robots to a higher standard. 520 00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:08,920 Speaker 2: I think we should, and it may seem illogical in 521 00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:12,360 Speaker 2: some ways or unfair, but I think that people understand 522 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:16,080 Speaker 2: that humans are fallible. We should be aiming higher for 523 00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:21,160 Speaker 2: autonomous and this technology. How much higher is a debate. 524 00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:24,240 Speaker 2: Should a robot driver does it need to be three 525 00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:27,000 Speaker 2: times better, five towns better, ten times better. I think 526 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,960 Speaker 2: that's up to the regulators. The other consideration is that 527 00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:35,280 Speaker 2: when autonomous makes a mistake in one way or the other, 528 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:39,480 Speaker 2: there is only one driver who is essentially maybe driving 529 00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:42,120 Speaker 2: one thousand people, ten thousand people, or one hundred thousand people, 530 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:47,640 Speaker 2: So the cost of a mistake can be significantly higher 531 00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:51,400 Speaker 2: and kind of the blast radius of a potential error 532 00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:54,440 Speaker 2: can be much higher, which again I think logically makes 533 00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:57,680 Speaker 2: sense in terms of the higher hurdle right different drivers, 534 00:30:57,720 --> 00:30:59,360 Speaker 2: human drivers that are making mistakes all the time for 535 00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:03,240 Speaker 2: different reasons, and having one poor driver on the road, 536 00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:05,840 Speaker 2: you have to get off the road. But that threat 537 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:09,640 Speaker 2: is a localized threat, so to speak. With autonomous the 538 00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:14,160 Speaker 2: driver is much bigger, so to speak. So again, I 539 00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:16,200 Speaker 2: do think it makes sense to hold a higher hurdle, 540 00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:20,800 Speaker 2: higher bar, But ultimately, I think the promise of this technology, 541 00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:23,720 Speaker 2: which is becoming realized, is it will be safer, it 542 00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:26,840 Speaker 2: will save lives, and I think we will be seeing 543 00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:29,000 Speaker 2: it in the next five to fifteen years, and I 544 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:32,520 Speaker 2: think that's a terrific thing. We will then, I would 545 00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:37,000 Speaker 2: say in the next three to seventy years, start to 546 00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:40,200 Speaker 2: focus on economics. And anytime you build a newer product, 547 00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:46,040 Speaker 2: every company, including us, you're willing to accept lower returns 548 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:48,880 Speaker 2: because it is a product that's growing. It's an investment 549 00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:51,440 Speaker 2: in the future. I think ultimately the reason why we're 550 00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:54,560 Speaker 2: doing it it is safer, it will be cheaper, and 551 00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:58,000 Speaker 2: so yes, while the margins on autonomous will be lower 552 00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:01,320 Speaker 2: than not autonomous in the early years, we think long 553 00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:04,080 Speaker 2: term it can be great for business and it can 554 00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:05,040 Speaker 2: be great for society. 555 00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:09,560 Speaker 1: So the other thing that is even further out, although 556 00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:13,160 Speaker 1: it could be as real as this year is flying taxis. Yes, 557 00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:16,320 Speaker 1: there is likely to be a Chinese company that may 558 00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:18,680 Speaker 1: have a commercial service before the end of the year, 559 00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:21,640 Speaker 1: and there are a few others waiting in the wings 560 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:26,560 Speaker 1: stink to be on the Uber platform. Now. I've had 561 00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:30,320 Speaker 1: a long running skeptical fight with a professor of flying taxis, 562 00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:37,080 Speaker 1: and I'm skeptical at is that it's the problem with autonomy. 563 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:40,240 Speaker 1: If the step towards going to something that is such 564 00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:44,120 Speaker 1: a new mode of transport is so many, it will 565 00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:46,960 Speaker 1: just take longer to get there because people are not familiar, 566 00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:52,280 Speaker 1: people feel trepidation, people will want to see how it goes, 567 00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:54,880 Speaker 1: and that just extends it. The other one is, of course, 568 00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:58,440 Speaker 1: the technology, which has been getting there now, so that 569 00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:01,720 Speaker 1: that's one place where my skepticism has been more moderated 570 00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:04,760 Speaker 1: because the technology is real. You can actually see them 571 00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:08,280 Speaker 1: at least in trials right now, and if one becomes commercial, 572 00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:12,520 Speaker 1: you know it's real. Uber was ahead of the game, 573 00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:15,959 Speaker 1: and an Elevate program that was about flying taxis just 574 00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:19,200 Speaker 1: like the Autonomy one. You shut that down. How are 575 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:20,600 Speaker 1: you thinking about faying taxis today? 576 00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:24,720 Speaker 2: I think very similarly. And then we merge Elevator into 577 00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:27,000 Speaker 2: joe By Aviation. We have a big investment in joe 578 00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:29,760 Speaker 2: b really for the same reason it was. Building hardware 579 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:33,880 Speaker 2: is different from building software and networks. But I'm very 580 00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:38,440 Speaker 2: optimistic about what's going on with vertical takeoff and landing. 581 00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:41,760 Speaker 1: Even more so than av you know, I think. 582 00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:45,160 Speaker 2: Av will touch more people, right, and will affect more lives. 583 00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:50,680 Speaker 2: But I think if you step back, the cities of 584 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:54,680 Speaker 2: the world are building in three dimensions, right, So commercial 585 00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:57,640 Speaker 2: living has gone in three dimensions, residential living has gone 586 00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:02,960 Speaker 2: three dimensions. But our transportation systems are in two dimensions. 587 00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:05,440 Speaker 2: And you know, maybe they have two planes, right, there's 588 00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:09,600 Speaker 2: the on surface and then some places have metro subways, etc. 589 00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:12,239 Speaker 2: But essentially two planes, and or. 590 00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:14,319 Speaker 1: There's the boring company which never worked out, but you. 591 00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:17,000 Speaker 2: Know, you know it's but it's the same idea, right. 592 00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:22,799 Speaker 2: It's no wonder that our transportation infrastructure, no matter how 593 00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:26,960 Speaker 2: much investment goes into it, eventually becomes overwhelmed. And so 594 00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:31,680 Speaker 2: you need to introduce at scale, this third dimension into 595 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:37,239 Speaker 2: our transportation infrastructure and battery technology, fly by wire technology, 596 00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:42,960 Speaker 2: the sonic envelope of these vehicles. It is happening, and 597 00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:45,960 Speaker 2: I do think that it will start with use cases 598 00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:49,320 Speaker 2: that are specific, you know, call it bus routes, going 599 00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:53,560 Speaker 2: to train stations or airports for example, is a great 600 00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:56,600 Speaker 2: use case. That's what Joe Baviation is starting with. And 601 00:34:56,640 --> 00:34:59,839 Speaker 2: then over a period of time it will expand from 602 00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:02,399 Speaker 2: the you know, I do think in some ways the 603 00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:08,640 Speaker 2: commercial the beginning of the commercial introduction of these two technologies, 604 00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:11,239 Speaker 2: there's going to be quite a competition to see what 605 00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:14,880 Speaker 2: gets commercial faster. Ultimately, autonomous will touch more people, but 606 00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:17,319 Speaker 2: Vitol is absolutely going to be part of our life 607 00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:19,440 Speaker 2: going forward and it will save so much time. 608 00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:23,320 Speaker 1: When you think about climate solutions, there is a tendency, 609 00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:26,120 Speaker 1: the right one to think about carbon as a constraint 610 00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:28,839 Speaker 1: and you want to reduce emissions. That's the point, right, 611 00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:31,879 Speaker 1: this is a climate solution. However, the other dimension is 612 00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:35,239 Speaker 1: how is it a better solution? So we've talked a 613 00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:37,279 Speaker 1: lot about the better solution. Now let's come to the 614 00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:43,160 Speaker 1: carbon constraint. When I look at your sustainability report and 615 00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:47,680 Speaker 1: your carbon accounting, you have Scope one and Scope two emissions, 616 00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:51,160 Speaker 1: which are direct emissions that come from either maybe natural 617 00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:54,319 Speaker 1: gas if it's burned in a building, or power that's 618 00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:57,279 Speaker 1: being supplied to you in the form of coal or 619 00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:01,200 Speaker 1: gas given offices in the world, very small fraction of 620 00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:04,760 Speaker 1: your emissions. Majority of your emissions come from the fuel 621 00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:09,399 Speaker 1: that is used by the drivers driving Uber, and you're 622 00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:11,719 Speaker 1: talking about how that can go electric and eventually that 623 00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:15,640 Speaker 1: electricity becomes decarbonized, so you get to zero. There's a 624 00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:18,480 Speaker 1: portion of your carbon emissions that are embedded in your 625 00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:21,320 Speaker 1: activity that you do not count today. So take deliveries. 626 00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:24,520 Speaker 1: For example, when I order Uber Eat and I am vegetarian, 627 00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:27,480 Speaker 1: so I don't typically order meat. I'll eat it when 628 00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:30,919 Speaker 1: I'm traveling, but never at home. But people do order meat, 629 00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:35,879 Speaker 1: and so if you're ordering a hamburger versus you're ordering dall, 630 00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:40,640 Speaker 1: the common footprint of those deliveries very different. Just like 631 00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:44,799 Speaker 1: you can drive people to take electric cars by changing 632 00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:49,200 Speaker 1: the green option in your app, you could be doing 633 00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:54,160 Speaker 1: the same thing by getting people to buy more vegetarian food. 634 00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:57,759 Speaker 1: But you're not accounting for those emissions today, So that 635 00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:00,560 Speaker 1: doesn't give you the incentive to do it. Why don't 636 00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:01,080 Speaker 1: you have it in. 637 00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:03,320 Speaker 2: Your cost I think it's a great call. It's certainly 638 00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:07,440 Speaker 2: something that we should and we'll look at our focus 639 00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:10,319 Speaker 2: right now in our delivery business is more related to 640 00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:13,960 Speaker 2: the packaging that all food comes from, right, that vegetarian 641 00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:18,640 Speaker 2: meal often comes in a container that is not compostable, 642 00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:22,480 Speaker 2: may not be recyclable, etc. So that's the problem that 643 00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:25,719 Speaker 2: we're trying to take on first. In terms of sustainable packaging, 644 00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:29,719 Speaker 2: we for example, announced a pilot in Paris now to 645 00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:34,719 Speaker 2: fund sustainable packaging in Paris. We now have a marketplace, 646 00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:39,480 Speaker 2: for example, where restaurants can easily identify and buy sustainable 647 00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:43,600 Speaker 2: packaging that applies to every single piece of food or 648 00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:47,799 Speaker 2: even grocery that you buy on Uber Eats, and I 649 00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:50,560 Speaker 2: believe at this point that should be our focus. I 650 00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:54,439 Speaker 2: think once we solve sustainable packaging, or once we feel 651 00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:57,520 Speaker 2: like we have enough momentum and sustainable packaging, because we 652 00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:00,920 Speaker 2: don't today. Even some restaurants are confused about what packaging 653 00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:03,600 Speaker 2: is sustainable versus what is not sustainable. Sometimes they think 654 00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:07,280 Speaker 2: they're being sustainable, they have the best intentions, but technically 655 00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:11,120 Speaker 2: they're not where they need to be. We're very very early, 656 00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:15,400 Speaker 2: unfortunately as it relates to our delivery business, to really 657 00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:19,319 Speaker 2: start to scale sustainable packaging. Once we do that, I'll 658 00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:20,959 Speaker 2: take on your point of view. 659 00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:25,040 Speaker 1: There, you could start at least by accounting for the 660 00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:28,360 Speaker 1: emotions even if you don't set targets. And I appreciate 661 00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:30,040 Speaker 1: these are all hard things and you have to take 662 00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:32,080 Speaker 1: on harder challenges as you solve the easier ones. 663 00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:34,960 Speaker 2: I think the other issue for us with accounting, and 664 00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:38,480 Speaker 2: it's a good point is I'll have to as I 665 00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:42,480 Speaker 2: think about your your issue live, it is going to 666 00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:49,839 Speaker 2: be difficult for us to understand exactly what restaurants are offering. Yeah, right, 667 00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:54,080 Speaker 2: the weight of that hamburger, right, two hamburgers may have 668 00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:57,759 Speaker 2: a very different climate profile depending on the size of 669 00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:01,319 Speaker 2: that hamburger, the ingredients, etc. And the fact is, while 670 00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:03,640 Speaker 2: we have a general view of what the ingredient list is, 671 00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:06,360 Speaker 2: it's going to be much harder for us to specifically 672 00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:09,680 Speaker 2: understand what's happening. But again, it is definitely something for 673 00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:10,400 Speaker 2: us to consider. 674 00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:13,360 Speaker 1: It's sort of the power of the platform, which brings 675 00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:17,359 Speaker 1: you supply and demand, is also one where you can 676 00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:22,120 Speaker 1: drive change. And it's not a problem that just Uber 677 00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:25,319 Speaker 1: is dealing with companies like Unilever, you know, who have 678 00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:31,120 Speaker 1: two billion customers, but two million suppliers are also having 679 00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:32,839 Speaker 1: to deal with it. They're having to go to them 680 00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:35,160 Speaker 1: and be like you have to report this because we're 681 00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:38,319 Speaker 1: all in it together. This is how we meet our goals. So, yeah, 682 00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:40,359 Speaker 1: it's a hard problem and you have to think through it, 683 00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:42,120 Speaker 1: but I feel like there are ways in which you 684 00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:45,200 Speaker 1: can get to it. It's an additional step somebody has 685 00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:47,400 Speaker 1: to do, but it makes you a little more conscious 686 00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:50,040 Speaker 1: about both the business as you run it, but also 687 00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:51,040 Speaker 1: the choice so that it can. 688 00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:53,520 Speaker 2: Make and it might make for more healthy eating too, 689 00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:54,799 Speaker 2: so that might not be a bad thing. 690 00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:59,319 Speaker 1: Yeah. The other thing that comes on climate that we 691 00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:02,880 Speaker 1: we don't talk about when we talk about solutions. We 692 00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:06,080 Speaker 1: talk about technologies, we talk about carbon but the third piece, 693 00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:09,680 Speaker 1: which is crucial is people. I'm sure you've heard of 694 00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:14,480 Speaker 1: the phrase the just transition, the transition that will bring 695 00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:20,439 Speaker 1: people along. Now, let's take one solution autonomous vehicles. That 696 00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:25,200 Speaker 1: will mean eventually fewer people driving cars, so fewer drivers. 697 00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:29,120 Speaker 1: How are you making sure that the drivers who are 698 00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:32,160 Speaker 1: earning their income on Uber today will be ready for 699 00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:34,880 Speaker 1: a future where technology is doing their job instead. 700 00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:37,640 Speaker 2: Well, it is a real issue that we have to 701 00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:41,200 Speaker 2: think about, and we have been very clear with our 702 00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:44,400 Speaker 2: driver based to some extent, our drivers on our platform 703 00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:47,680 Speaker 2: are competing against the next driver who comes onto our platform, 704 00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:50,960 Speaker 2: whether that's a human driver or a robot driver. So 705 00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:54,640 Speaker 2: I think drivers understand how the platform works, and there's 706 00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:57,960 Speaker 2: constantly new supply of drivers coming onto the platform. So 707 00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:01,480 Speaker 2: for us, one is communication being very clear. Second for 708 00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:05,400 Speaker 2: us is finding different use cases. So for example, there 709 00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:07,640 Speaker 2: are going to be real challenges in terms of delivery 710 00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:11,920 Speaker 2: and providing autonomous delivery. It's promising, but coming out of 711 00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:15,160 Speaker 2: the restaurant, putting the food in or delivering the food 712 00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:19,239 Speaker 2: in high rise provides different logistical challenges. Same thing in 713 00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:24,120 Speaker 2: terms of grocery shopping. Right, So one is offering different 714 00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:27,840 Speaker 2: types of work for drivers to be able to transition 715 00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:30,680 Speaker 2: into over a long period of time, maybe they go 716 00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:34,160 Speaker 2: from driving to delivering to shopping. We're even now working 717 00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:36,600 Speaker 2: on actually there's a group of our drivers and some 718 00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:40,720 Speaker 2: non drivers who are working on AI labeling and translation 719 00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:46,959 Speaker 2: and essentially training AI agents as well as another kind 720 00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:49,440 Speaker 2: of work. So that to the extent that there are 721 00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:52,600 Speaker 2: autonomous vehicles coming onto the platform, maybe our drivers are 722 00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:56,000 Speaker 2: training those autonomous vehicles. So we are working with expanding 723 00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:58,400 Speaker 2: the scope of work. But I think the question that 724 00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:00,719 Speaker 2: you're asking, it's a very big question in terms of 725 00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:03,680 Speaker 2: the role of automation in general. Now, I do think 726 00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:07,319 Speaker 2: that there's a drama in terms of our robots going 727 00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:10,560 Speaker 2: to replace the humans. What we've seen over and over 728 00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:13,879 Speaker 2: again in history is that robots complement humans and then 729 00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:16,560 Speaker 2: humans can move on to different kinds of work or 730 00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:19,600 Speaker 2: higher value work. My hope is that the same happens 731 00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:23,640 Speaker 2: in terms of the transportation industry. But we're definitely doing 732 00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:26,200 Speaker 2: our part in terms of expanding the scope of the 733 00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:28,200 Speaker 2: opportunities on the platform. 734 00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:30,640 Speaker 1: And within that same framework there so that the esg. 735 00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:34,000 Speaker 1: The environmental witch we've talked about the social side where 736 00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:38,120 Speaker 1: there has been a move over this period to have 737 00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:42,280 Speaker 1: more and more benefits being given to the drivers. Yes, 738 00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:45,319 Speaker 1: and in some places like here in the UK you 739 00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:49,080 Speaker 1: have vacation pay, in other places you get pensions etc. 740 00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:53,880 Speaker 1: You've said you prefer or it is actually better for 741 00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:55,799 Speaker 1: the driver to have the hybrid choice that they're not 742 00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:58,520 Speaker 1: an employee. They are able to come on the platform 743 00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:00,520 Speaker 1: and leave it when they want. And why is it 744 00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:03,320 Speaker 1: better for them do not have employee benefits? 745 00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:07,640 Speaker 2: Well, the number one, two and three reason why people 746 00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:10,360 Speaker 2: come onto the platform or drivers come onto the platform 747 00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:16,600 Speaker 2: is flexibility. Flexibility and flexibility employment benefits always come with demands, right, 748 00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:19,040 Speaker 2: which is where are you going to work, when are 749 00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:21,360 Speaker 2: you going to work, what are your hours, et cetera. 750 00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:24,560 Speaker 2: So there's a trade off, right. With flexibility, drivers get 751 00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:29,239 Speaker 2: to make their own work hours where they want to go, 752 00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:33,400 Speaker 2: and we think ultimately the best solution is retain flexibility, 753 00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:37,960 Speaker 2: but then add to that certain protections that you associate 754 00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:40,840 Speaker 2: with full time jobs, whether it's a minimum pay or 755 00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:45,520 Speaker 2: pension benefits, time off, insurance, etc. So we think the 756 00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:48,799 Speaker 2: hybrid solution is a better solution. It makes driving for Ruber, 757 00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:53,799 Speaker 2: delivering for Uber more attractive, so our network becomes more 758 00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:56,480 Speaker 2: liquid ETAs get better, improves the quality of our network 759 00:43:56,480 --> 00:43:58,800 Speaker 2: as well. We think that's the right solution going forward. 760 00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:01,200 Speaker 2: Thank you, Tor, Thank you really appreciate it. 761 00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:12,239 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to zero and now for the 762 00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:20,200 Speaker 1: sound of the week. That's the driver of the future, 763 00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:25,600 Speaker 1: an algorithm driving away more. Also, please do check out 764 00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:29,279 Speaker 1: an excellent investigation from my colleagues into how Uber has 765 00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:32,440 Speaker 1: been selectively locking out some drivers in New York City 766 00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:37,319 Speaker 1: between rides and thus dramatically reducing their pay. You can 767 00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:40,160 Speaker 1: read that investigation on Bloomberg dot com and it's linked 768 00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:43,359 Speaker 1: in the show notes. If you like this episode, please 769 00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:45,160 Speaker 1: take a moment to rate or review the show on 770 00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:48,840 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Share this episode with a friend 771 00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:52,279 Speaker 1: or with someone who owns more than one car. You 772 00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:55,000 Speaker 1: can get in touch at zero pod at bloomberg dot net. 773 00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:58,880 Speaker 1: Zero's producer is might Le Rau, Bloomberg's Head of podcast 774 00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:01,760 Speaker 1: is Stage boun and head of Talk is Brendan Newnan. 775 00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:05,520 Speaker 1: Our theme music is composed by Wonderly Special thanks to 776 00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:10,720 Speaker 1: Aaron Rudkoff, Schawon Wagner, Ethan Steinberg, Jessica Beck, and Monique Molima. 777 00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:12,960 Speaker 1: I am Akshatrati Banks