1 00:00:02,200 --> 00:00:06,880 Speaker 1: Ephemeral is a production of iHeart three D audio for 2 00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:09,400 Speaker 1: full exposure, listen with that phones. 3 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:21,880 Speaker 2: One of the amazing things about music is how it 4 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 2: can form connections across language. 5 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 3: Direct to the nice thing with Danielle is we don't 6 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:39,760 Speaker 3: need to use many words. We understand each other without 7 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:45,840 Speaker 3: speaking very much. We trust each other immediately. 8 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:46,599 Speaker 4: And we can be a lot more direct in our 9 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:48,400 Speaker 4: feedback and saying things to each other. 10 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:57,560 Speaker 2: The French voices here are those of siblings Danielle and 11 00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 2: Dde Jean. Together, Danielle and Dda make up the band Uman. 12 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:13,760 Speaker 1: Human Human hu Uma umen umah Man Mummen. 13 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 2: When we talked last year, their nineteen ninety two album 14 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:22,760 Speaker 2: had just been re released by the New York based 15 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 2: label Freedom to Spend. Wherever he might have heard it 16 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:29,880 Speaker 2: in the first place, this album left a strong impression 17 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:31,920 Speaker 2: on label founder Matt Worth. 18 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 5: It's an album for imagination, imagination that birds more imagination, 19 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:42,640 Speaker 5: or that inspires more imagination. I think a lot of 20 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:45,400 Speaker 5: that has to do with the way language is not 21 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:50,520 Speaker 5: only explored across dialects and regions, but also in the 22 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 5: way that it is then fractalized within the sound itself, 23 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 5: almost like this alien transmission. It feels like contact with 24 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 5: another kind of life force. Our reason to reissue this 25 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:08,400 Speaker 5: was because it just felt so hard to place in 26 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 5: time and therefore a timeless album. 27 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:18,239 Speaker 2: My interview with Danielle and Dda was conducted with a 28 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 2: live French English translator. Today we'll have some friends performing 29 00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:24,800 Speaker 2: the English translation of their words. 30 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:32,400 Speaker 1: When did you start writing producing your own music? 31 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 3: At a very young age, a friend lent me a 32 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:39,079 Speaker 3: tape recorder. I was fascinated by the stape recorder and 33 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:42,519 Speaker 3: I started experimenting with speeding up and slowing down. The sound. 34 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 4: Is the one who started playing with different bands, and 35 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:50,799 Speaker 4: at some point I joined them. We started songwriting, and 36 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:54,520 Speaker 4: then we started with instrumental music, but it happened progressively. 37 00:02:57,960 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 1: Vico pamaldu choregra. 38 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:02,799 Speaker 4: To this album. We were working mostly with choreographers for 39 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:06,679 Speaker 4: contemporary dance, and we were creating instrumental music with or 40 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 4: without voice. But part of us felt like it was frustrating, 41 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 4: like we had to hold back because the music couldn't 42 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:15,519 Speaker 4: take up all the space of this art form. And 43 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:18,040 Speaker 4: so finally with this album, we felt like we could 44 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:20,760 Speaker 4: employ our creativity and do more to give it more 45 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 4: to voice. 46 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 1: If I understand correctly, before this record, you cut a 47 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:31,960 Speaker 1: couple of albums recorded in like commercial studios in Paris, 48 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 1: and then I think for this one moved to you 49 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 1: built a home studio, right. 50 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 3: So, yes, we were recording albums of French music or 51 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 3: pop and some very commercial professional studios. But our feeling 52 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:49,840 Speaker 3: there was that the sound engineers would oftentimes impose their 53 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 3: point of view or their mixing, and so even if 54 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 3: we had less means producing, we had more freedom at 55 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:56,720 Speaker 3: a home studio. 56 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:04,040 Speaker 4: Se at those big studios, and time is money. It's 57 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:06,920 Speaker 4: very costly and there's a lot of pressure to work faster. 58 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 4: At home. We had all the time that we needed 59 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:10,000 Speaker 4: to record. 60 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 1: Did you go in with with a vision of what 61 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:21,280 Speaker 1: this album should be like? Would be like? See? 62 00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:24,240 Speaker 4: Things happen little by little and it really depends on 63 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 4: the mood I'm in at that time, so there's never 64 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 4: an overarching vision. Things happen slowly progressively. 65 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 5: This is. 66 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 3: The swell was at the time. My process was more 67 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:39,279 Speaker 3: working at night. I would come up with different harmonies 68 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:41,799 Speaker 3: and then in the morning I would propose some different 69 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:44,920 Speaker 3: ideas to Danielle and she would improvise based on those things. 70 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:47,280 Speaker 3: Then I would do gimmicks with my m one. 71 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:54,720 Speaker 1: And after did kept my melodi and the create a 72 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 1: new melody. 73 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:01,159 Speaker 4: Not always but sometimes. And what was great about it so. 74 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 3: Based on the long minutes of improv that Danielle would 75 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 3: come up with, I would sample parts on my keyboard. 76 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:12,280 Speaker 3: I was keeping a lot of their original melodies, but 77 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:14,480 Speaker 3: I was adding to them or cutting them, and that 78 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 3: was very exciting, like a ping pong match. 79 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 2: Woven across the album is a single poem, spoken eight 80 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:39,360 Speaker 2: times in eight different languages, French, Hebrew, Dutch, Vietnamese, Portuguese 81 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:42,920 Speaker 2: and English. 82 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:48,800 Speaker 3: It's this force, almost animal warm, like a kiss, fresh, 83 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 3: like the morning June that we call human warm. It's 84 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:58,040 Speaker 3: not quite sexual, but it's something to do with human 85 00:05:58,160 --> 00:05:59,000 Speaker 3: nature that is so. 86 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:02,840 Speaker 1: Tangible, some opportunity to lay. 87 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:06,159 Speaker 3: In that time, there were a lot of social liberation movements, 88 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:09,360 Speaker 3: a lot of human warmth, especially in the fall of 89 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:10,039 Speaker 3: the Berlin Wall. 90 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 5: Some of the. 91 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 3: No Man doing New Yorkshires. 92 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:25,600 Speaker 4: The poem Park came at the very end of the 93 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:28,719 Speaker 4: process of this project, and then it was integrated into 94 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:30,600 Speaker 4: other tracks, but we did it at the end. 95 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:36,040 Speaker 3: We used people that were around us and people that 96 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:39,240 Speaker 3: we knew we used those opportunities to record their voices. 97 00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:43,920 Speaker 3: So one of the first ones was Russia. That's because 98 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 3: we had a cello player that played on some of 99 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:52,040 Speaker 3: our tracks who spoke Russia. At the time, we lived 100 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:54,800 Speaker 3: in a university town, so we had lots of nationalities 101 00:06:54,839 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 3: around us. Popular for us, the voice is truly an instrument. 102 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 3: We also use phonetic syllables and sounds in the place 103 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:05,719 Speaker 3: of words. 104 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 4: Gembiells just the mom I've loved to play and have 105 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 4: fun with my voice, not just with singing, but with 106 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:20,480 Speaker 4: making noises. I like when my voice can be very breathy, 107 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 4: with lots of air, or sounds that are more jazzy. 108 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 4: And I've done a lot of world music, so I've 109 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 4: learned to create sounds that are in my nose or 110 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 4: in my forehead or other parts of my body. 111 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:46,560 Speaker 1: There is a way in which very lyric forward music 112 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 1: can be so much direct addressed from the composer, like 113 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:51,640 Speaker 1: a very specific meaning that. 114 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 3: You're supposed to take. 115 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:56,080 Speaker 1: And something that I find so enjoyable about your album 116 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 1: and so like re listenable about your album is that 117 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 1: that's not the case, that it's full of language and 118 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 1: the human voice, which is one of my favorite sounds 119 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:08,440 Speaker 1: in the world. But it's so much more ethereal and evocative, 120 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:11,680 Speaker 1: and it feels almost like choral music, like a lot 121 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:25,080 Speaker 1: of voices in concert together. Let's talk about gear for 122 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:27,720 Speaker 1: a second. What kind of Simpson in the in the samplers, 123 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 1: and what kind of gear did you have in your 124 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 1: home studio there. 125 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:34,959 Speaker 4: In the beginning, we were just experimenting. We had two 126 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 4: two track recorders, so we were recording one track and 127 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 4: then singing on the other track, and we were doing 128 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:43,400 Speaker 4: a lot of mixes and experimenting, and I think all 129 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 4: of that developed our creativity. When the first samplers came out, 130 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:49,720 Speaker 4: we had that preparation. We were ready to start using 131 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:51,679 Speaker 4: them because we had been doing this before. 132 00:08:56,040 --> 00:09:00,160 Speaker 3: JEVI. My first sampler was from Kawai. Then I had 133 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 3: an EPs from Insnic and that's what I used to 134 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:05,079 Speaker 3: do the guitar sounds on the keyboard. I had the 135 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 3: D fifty synthesizer from Roland, the j D nine to 136 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 3: ninety from Roland, the Corg wave station, the COG. We 137 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:18,960 Speaker 3: had a rhythm box from in Sonic too. We had 138 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:22,320 Speaker 3: a software called Notator. It was the ancestor of Logic, 139 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:26,280 Speaker 3: and I could create different versions of music modules. We 140 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:28,800 Speaker 3: also had a digital keyboard, the m K S twenty 141 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:31,600 Speaker 3: from Roland, which is a really important part of this album. 142 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 3: Initially I trained as a bassist. I played the bass, 143 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 3: but I don't think there's any real bass on the album. 144 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 3: I think it was all digital essentially. On this album, 145 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:45,720 Speaker 3: I was just playing the synthesizer and the sample. 146 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 4: Obviously, we played with other musicians as well on this album. 147 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:02,640 Speaker 4: We had the trumpet, the piano, and the saxophone. 148 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 3: Would play them the theme and then they would either 149 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:09,760 Speaker 3: improvise or try to play the same theme on their instrument. 150 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:16,720 Speaker 4: We recorded our guest musicians on an eight track, which 151 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:17,880 Speaker 4: allowed us to then mix the. 152 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 3: Mints, and the eight track was synchronized in the Notator software, 153 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 3: so all the synthesizer sounds were recorded digitally, and then 154 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:29,240 Speaker 3: all the other instruments were analog. 155 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:36,719 Speaker 1: The initial release, you released it in nineteen ninety two, right, 156 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:41,240 Speaker 1: So what do you remember about releasing it then? Sort 157 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:42,440 Speaker 1: of was what was the reaction? 158 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:47,000 Speaker 3: The album was very well received. We had many articles 159 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:50,120 Speaker 3: written about it, so we felt very emotional and very proud. 160 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:57,199 Speaker 4: But this album was still kind of a hybrid and 161 00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:01,640 Speaker 4: an alien people were surprised. I am little destabilized by it. 162 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:09,400 Speaker 4: At the time, it wasn't possible to compare us to anything, 163 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 4: at least in our own environment. 164 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:18,440 Speaker 3: We couldn't be classified as pop or jazz or anything else. 165 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:21,360 Speaker 3: A lot of record companies had to turn us down 166 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 3: because they didn't know how to classify us, and sometimes 167 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:26,840 Speaker 3: they did it regretfully. We could see that they liked 168 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 3: our music, but they didn't know how to sell us. 169 00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:39,240 Speaker 1: When did Matt come at you guys and be like, yo, 170 00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:41,160 Speaker 1: I want to do this record again, you want to 171 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 1: put it back out? 172 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:44,320 Speaker 3: I think it was at the beginning of Lockdown. 173 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 4: We actually got a message from Matt and didn't answer 174 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:50,439 Speaker 4: for a while because we had other things to do, 175 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:52,559 Speaker 4: but Matt was very persevering. 176 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:58,679 Speaker 3: Well. What I liked about our conversation was that it 177 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 3: didn't feel like a dialogue between an artist and a 178 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:03,960 Speaker 3: record company. It felt like a dialogue between two artists, 179 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:11,040 Speaker 3: and that really built our trust in math Is. As 180 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 3: any artist, we start out by being very cautious of 181 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 3: any commercial offer that comes our way. We've been signed 182 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 3: with Universal before in the past, and that wasn't a 183 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:22,560 Speaker 3: great experience. We felt like there was always a lot 184 00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:24,559 Speaker 3: of pressure on our heads and we didn't have a 185 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:27,679 Speaker 3: lot of freedom. But with Matt it felt different. We 186 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:31,080 Speaker 3: felt very comfortable from the start. And something to note 187 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:33,280 Speaker 3: is that we always kept the rights to our album. 188 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:36,080 Speaker 3: We always have this feeling inside of us that maybe 189 00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:37,679 Speaker 3: one day we were going to be able to use 190 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:38,120 Speaker 3: them again. 191 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:43,640 Speaker 1: How do you feel about the the re release? I mean, 192 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:45,680 Speaker 1: what sort of attention have you seen? Is it felt 193 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 1: a lot different than it did nineteen years ago. 194 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:56,559 Speaker 4: It's a very very different experience, especially because we hadn't 195 00:12:56,600 --> 00:12:59,200 Speaker 4: listened to it in so long, But of course we're 196 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:02,720 Speaker 4: extremely happy. At the time, it felt like the beginning 197 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:06,319 Speaker 4: of something, and right now that feels very different. 198 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 3: Supposed to nineteen years ago. It felt like the beginning 199 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:15,719 Speaker 3: of an adventure and also the beginning of what I 200 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:19,000 Speaker 3: felt was pure freedom of expression. At the time, I 201 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:22,120 Speaker 3: started writing children's literature and making a living from that, 202 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 3: and so I didn't feel this pressure to make best 203 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:28,120 Speaker 3: selling music anymore. The music could be one hundred percent 204 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:31,120 Speaker 3: my expression, and I felt a lot more free in 205 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:31,520 Speaker 3: doing that. 206 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:32,480 Speaker 2: Well felt that music. 207 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:37,079 Speaker 1: You know, do you still play music together. 208 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:45,120 Speaker 3: It's interesting because the re release of this album has 209 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:48,439 Speaker 3: changed our way of working together. Actually we ex more 210 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:52,839 Speaker 3: so we find ourselves working together like we did in 211 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:55,439 Speaker 3: the past maybe and you'll see it in our next album. 212 00:13:55,880 --> 00:14:01,280 Speaker 3: There's a feeling in the mood of that time, the book. 213 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:07,160 Speaker 4: And nowadays we have to work a little differently because 214 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 4: we've lived far apart and Didier lives in the south 215 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:11,679 Speaker 4: of France and I live in your parents. But we 216 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:14,199 Speaker 4: still work with this back and forth and send each 217 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:17,960 Speaker 4: other byle Well. 218 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:20,560 Speaker 1: Dan Didier, thank you so much for taking the time. 219 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 2: This episode of Ephemeralm was written by me Alex Williams, 220 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 2: produced with Max Williams and Trevor Young, edited by Casey 221 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:39,120 Speaker 2: Pegram and Rima il KLi, translated by and de Valence, 222 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 2: and performed in English by Lauren Vogelbaum and Noel Brown. 223 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:47,120 Speaker 2: With special thanks to isis O Reagan, Sammy Jo Concilio, 224 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:52,240 Speaker 2: Danielle and Didejean and Matt Wirth. The re released album 225 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:58,360 Speaker 2: is available in multiple formats on band Camp and I 226 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:04,640 Speaker 2: get our vng dot com. Just search human m Am 227 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 2: and look for us on social media. We are at 228 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 2: Ephemeral Show. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio 229 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:18,280 Speaker 2: app Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite show.