WEBVTT - How COVID Denial Affects Healthcare Workers

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<v Speaker 1>It's Friday, December four. I'm Oscar Ramrors from the Daily

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<v Speaker 1>Dive podcast in Los Angeles, and this is reopening America.

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<v Speaker 1>We are seeing coronavirus continue to spread across the country.

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<v Speaker 1>Hospitalizations and debts are also on the uptick, and doctors

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<v Speaker 1>and nurses are caught in the middle with treating the

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<v Speaker 1>sick and people who still think the virus isn't as

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<v Speaker 1>bad as some make it seem. Some healthcare workers call

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<v Speaker 1>it COVID denial, and on top of the physical and

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<v Speaker 1>mental demands of the job, they say this makes it

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<v Speaker 1>harder for them to provide care. Sarah Krause, health reporter

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<v Speaker 1>at The Wall Street Journal, joins us for more on

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<v Speaker 1>this extra challenge healthcare workers are facing. Thanks for joining us, Sarah,

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks for having me. We're unfortunately seeing cases of coronavirus rise,

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<v Speaker 1>hospitalizations rise, debts rise. We're really hitting a bad part

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<v Speaker 1>of this pandemic all over again. And one of the

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<v Speaker 1>things that we always like to check in on is

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<v Speaker 1>our doctors, our nurses, our healthcare workers. It's been a

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<v Speaker 1>tough go for them. You know, they're the ones on

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<v Speaker 1>the front lines dealing the patients all the time and

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<v Speaker 1>helping people get better. And we've done stories in the

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<v Speaker 1>past before already on the podcast about the burnout that

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<v Speaker 1>the doctors and nurses are facing, some of them are

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<v Speaker 1>retiring early, all that jazz. But right now you wrote

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<v Speaker 1>an article, Sarah, about how some of this coronavirus disbelief

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<v Speaker 1>is really affecting them. You know, it's hard for them

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<v Speaker 1>to go there every day, but still constantly hear people

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<v Speaker 1>say that it's not as bad as it seems, or

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<v Speaker 1>it's a hoax, etcetera, etcetera. So, Sarry, tell us a

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<v Speaker 1>little bit about some of the conversations you were having

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<v Speaker 1>with doctors and nurses about this. So I spoke with

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<v Speaker 1>several doctors and nurses across the country and basically what

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<v Speaker 1>they described or treating patients who are seriously ill in

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<v Speaker 1>the hospital as part of their day job, and then

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<v Speaker 1>going home and either in the line at the grocery

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<v Speaker 1>store or through family or friends and family hearing from

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<v Speaker 1>people who think the virus as a hoax or just

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<v Speaker 1>not as serious as public health officials have said it is.

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<v Speaker 1>And they say that that sort of disbelief on top

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<v Speaker 1>of months of the physical and mental demands of caring

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<v Speaker 1>for very sick patients during the pandemic is frustrating and draining,

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<v Speaker 1>and the overarching is that if the broader public is

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<v Speaker 1>not taking the pandemic and the associated risks seriously, does

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<v Speaker 1>it risk furthering the virus has spread. I mean, it's

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<v Speaker 1>a weird situation. We see it a lot playing out

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<v Speaker 1>in the media, obviously how bad it is. We see

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<v Speaker 1>our local elected officials talking about it constantly, imposing new

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<v Speaker 1>restrictions and lockdowns, and that's probably fuel some of the

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<v Speaker 1>frustration on the part of people not wanting to go

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<v Speaker 1>through that. You know. Obviously huge economic effects that are

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<v Speaker 1>going on because of it is hard for a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of people. And despite these huge numbers, there's a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of people that have not gotten this, and maybe some

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<v Speaker 1>people don't know somebody that might have gotten it, so

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<v Speaker 1>it might fuel some of that skepticism they said, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>some of this in their sort of groups of family

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<v Speaker 1>and friends is rooted in the fact that there were

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<v Speaker 1>parts of the country that shut down before the virus

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<v Speaker 1>was widely circulating there. So there's this frustration from economic losses,

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<v Speaker 1>whether it be a job or just instability in a

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<v Speaker 1>person's household. Financial situations that contribute to this frustration as

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<v Speaker 1>shutdowns continue, as the numbers continue to swell. You had

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<v Speaker 1>a story about a nurse in El Paso, Texas who

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<v Speaker 1>had a patient in early November, wheeling him out of

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<v Speaker 1>the intensive care unit, and he was still saying that

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<v Speaker 1>it wasn't that bad, that the media was exaggerating it.

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<v Speaker 1>She said that she took that time to say that

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<v Speaker 1>he was the only person that she had treated that

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<v Speaker 1>day that was able to converse with her, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>and that also the distance that she was treating are

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<v Speaker 1>the most severe that she had seen in ten years

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<v Speaker 1>as a nurse. So she said that in that situation,

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<v Speaker 1>the patient changed their minds. Other healthcare professionals that I

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<v Speaker 1>talked to said at times they faced more of an

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<v Speaker 1>uphill climb in convincing those around them that this is real.

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<v Speaker 1>And one of the things that came up repeatedly in

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<v Speaker 1>the conversations I had with healthcare workers and what they

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<v Speaker 1>hear from the communities around them are patients, is there

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<v Speaker 1>have been conflicting messages around the merits of mask wearing

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<v Speaker 1>early on, and because the virus continues to spread, now

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<v Speaker 1>there's not only a pandemic fatigue, but there's a little

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<v Speaker 1>bit of whiplash in terms of what measures should I

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<v Speaker 1>or should I not be taking? Is it actually making

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<v Speaker 1>a difference? Yeah, that might have been one of the

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<v Speaker 1>biggest drawbacks. I think that the CDC was involved early

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<v Speaker 1>on when the recommendations were bouncing back and forth. And

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<v Speaker 1>you know, they talk a lot about in your conversations

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<v Speaker 1>with them, you know, misinformation, and they hope that, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>the quality of care doesn't go down, and a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of them are nervous we're getting to the point where

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<v Speaker 1>vaccines are going to be improved, and public polling out

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<v Speaker 1>there says that a lot of Americans don't want to

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<v Speaker 1>take the vaccines for a variety of reasons, right, And

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<v Speaker 1>that's one of the many sort of knock on effects

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<v Speaker 1>that they described as fearing in this one is you know,

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<v Speaker 1>if people don't think there is merit to mass wearing

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<v Speaker 1>other mitigation measures, that they won't do it, the virus

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<v Speaker 1>will continue to spread. But also when a vaccine is available,

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<v Speaker 1>these feelings will contribute to some Americans not getting vaccinated

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<v Speaker 1>because they didn't think it was serious in the first place,

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<v Speaker 1>or they have distrust of the vaccine. Yet another knock

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<v Speaker 1>on effects from it was the concern about overcrowding having

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<v Speaker 1>so much of a burden. If this continues to spread

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<v Speaker 1>on the health care system, that you run out of

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<v Speaker 1>beds with the ability to care not only for COVID

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<v Speaker 1>patients but also sort of routine, elective but still important procedures,

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<v Speaker 1>or in remote parts of the country where there's maybe

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<v Speaker 1>you know, a main trauma center and then that serves

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<v Speaker 1>as a hub that if that's still COVID patients that

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<v Speaker 1>can't accept the normal car accident injuries or other injuries

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<v Speaker 1>that might come through that then must be treated in

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<v Speaker 1>smaller facilities that have less experience doing so. So they

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<v Speaker 1>sort of described this ripple of fact that has a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of different components to it. On the vaccine front,

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<v Speaker 1>one of the latest Gallipole said about Americans say that

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<v Speaker 1>they wouldn't get vaccinated. I don't like to hear that

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<v Speaker 1>type of stuff, especially considering how hard people have been

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<v Speaker 1>pushing for the vaccines to get through the process and everything.

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<v Speaker 1>I think this kind of encapsulates a lot of this.

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<v Speaker 1>One of the nurses you spoke to said, Hey, I

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<v Speaker 1>check your cholesterol and show you a number, and you

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<v Speaker 1>believe us. But when it comes to this, you're not

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<v Speaker 1>believing us now, and that's got to be frustrating for

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<v Speaker 1>these healthcare workers that are in the trenches working on this.

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<v Speaker 1>And you also mentioned that there's a lot of local

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<v Speaker 1>public health meetings that some of these nurses are taking

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<v Speaker 1>their time to go to as well, so they're not

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<v Speaker 1>just treating patients in the hospitals, they're also going to

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<v Speaker 1>these public meetings to help get the word out. And

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<v Speaker 1>even then still there's back and forth on it. I

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<v Speaker 1>described a meeting in Idaho where a local public health

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<v Speaker 1>board invited both doctors from a local hospital system as

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<v Speaker 1>well as to other individuals who advocated for unproven treatments

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<v Speaker 1>and made assertions that there's no evidence that masks prevent

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<v Speaker 1>the spread of COVID nineteen, which is incorrect. And so

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<v Speaker 1>the doctors that I spoke with who were at that meeting,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, sort of spoke about frustration, feeling like they

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<v Speaker 1>are up against conflicting and incorrect messages on top of

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<v Speaker 1>their day job of caring for patients. And you know,

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<v Speaker 1>one of them sort of described it feels like a

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<v Speaker 1>parallel universe when you see people dying of a virus,

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<v Speaker 1>or you see a virus having longer term complications for

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<v Speaker 1>some patients. At your day job, and then you go

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<v Speaker 1>home or in your surrounding community, it's not taken seriously, right, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean it's very hard. I know there's been a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of politicization throughout this whole process of the pandemic,

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<v Speaker 1>and even in my own circles. You know, I heard

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of people saying, oh, you know, this is

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<v Speaker 1>all going to go away after the election. It's quite

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<v Speaker 1>the contrary. It's actually gotten worse very recently. And you

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<v Speaker 1>see today we're we have record hospitalizations as of yesterday,

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<v Speaker 1>a record new case count, more than two hundred thousand.

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<v Speaker 1>Deaths are continuing to climb, and so I think one

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<v Speaker 1>of the challenges here is you have this continued spread,

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<v Speaker 1>and in some parts of the country, the worse it's

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<v Speaker 1>been yet, on top of many months of lockdowns and

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<v Speaker 1>fits and starts. So you have this sort of frustration

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<v Speaker 1>and desire among a lot of people to get back

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<v Speaker 1>to normal and find a way to live with it.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, I think from the doctor's perspective and nurses perspective,

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<v Speaker 1>you're also coming off many months of pretty intense shift

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<v Speaker 1>caring for sick people, and so um I think We're

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<v Speaker 1>at a moment where some of those frustrations are bubbling up.

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<v Speaker 1>Sarah Krause, health reporter at the Wall Street Journal. Thank

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<v Speaker 1>you very much for joining us, Thank you for having me.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Oscar Ramirez and this has been reopening America. Don't

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<v Speaker 1>forget the effort today's big news stories. You can check

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<v Speaker 1>me out in the Daily Dive podcast every Monday to Fridays.

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<v Speaker 1>So follow us on I Heart Radio or wherever you

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