1 00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:06,720 Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to the short Stuff. I'm Josh, there's 2 00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:10,479 Speaker 1: chuck where the banana splits and this is short stuff. 3 00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:13,960 Speaker 1: Let's go. I thought you were gonna say we're bananas 4 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:17,720 Speaker 1: for banana flavoring. I should have I think we should 5 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:22,599 Speaker 1: retake this whole thing. Frankly, no, no way, not not 6 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:26,400 Speaker 1: by a million years years. Was better than mine. Uh, 7 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:28,920 Speaker 1: this is a good episode. Hats off to you for 8 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:32,480 Speaker 1: putting it together. Thank you, But the hats really come 9 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 1: off to a few a handful of astute listeners. Chuck, 10 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:40,120 Speaker 1: because I had no idea about this until in our 11 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:45,000 Speaker 1: watermelon episode. If you'll remember, you started talking about how 12 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:50,519 Speaker 1: just far off like banana candy flavor is from actual 13 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 1: banana taste, and I was like, you're absolutely right, and 14 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 1: they just like they just missed the mark so badly. 15 00:00:57,000 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 1: But after we we talked about that, um, we didn't 16 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:02,800 Speaker 1: e lies. We'd accidentally stumbled into kind of like a 17 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:07,480 Speaker 1: overlooked history of at least flavor science, if not pop 18 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 1: culture that some of our listeners wrote in, say, guys, guys, 19 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:15,119 Speaker 1: get this, that banana flavoring actually is really dead on 20 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:19,200 Speaker 1: to a banana that we don't eat anymore. It was 21 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:21,720 Speaker 1: created back at a time when there's this banana that's 22 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 1: not around any longer was popular. And that's why it 23 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 1: seems weird to us because it doesn't taste like bananas 24 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:30,560 Speaker 1: we eat today. And I just started tearing at my 25 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:32,760 Speaker 1: clothing and shaking my head left and right. I was like, 26 00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:34,840 Speaker 1: gott to get a short stuff out as fast as 27 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:37,760 Speaker 1: possible about this delirium, said, and when you heard there 28 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 1: was an O B that's right, an O G B 29 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 1: that's right. Uh. And that banana, my friends, is called 30 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:50,800 Speaker 1: is it Michelle m the gross Michelle g R O 31 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:53,960 Speaker 1: S M I C H E L. That was a 32 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:57,240 Speaker 1: banana grown in the mid of the beginning of the 33 00:01:57,240 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 1: mid nineteenth century by off he grow in Jamaica. And uh, 34 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:04,520 Speaker 1: we would you know, Big Mike would be his name 35 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 1: here in the States. But it was gross Michelle. And 36 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:11,080 Speaker 1: this stuff was great for sitting around the world because 37 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:13,120 Speaker 1: it grew in little tight bunches. It was very thick skin, 38 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:16,400 Speaker 1: it was very slow to ripen after he picked it off, 39 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:19,600 Speaker 1: and so it was really good as a as a 40 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:24,880 Speaker 1: shipping fruit until disaster struck in that right. Yeah, So 41 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:29,079 Speaker 1: so I think in the eighteen seventies around then the 42 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:32,680 Speaker 1: gross Michelle like became the dominant banana and that lasted 43 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 1: all the way. That's how it's right. That lasted all 44 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:39,799 Speaker 1: the way until the nineteen fifties when something called a 45 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 1: Panama disease or banana wilt, which is a fungal disease 46 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 1: that attacks banana plants um and it's caused by a 47 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 1: fungus called Fusarium oxy spoor um form us. Specialist Cuban say, 48 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:58,720 Speaker 1: and it aroused the dead or something. I look out 49 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:03,359 Speaker 1: behind you, chuck um and Uh, this particular soil dwelling 50 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:07,440 Speaker 1: fungus really munches down on banana crops. And so after 51 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:13,680 Speaker 1: seventy years of market dominance, the gross Michelle went basically 52 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:18,120 Speaker 1: extinct in less than a decade because this banana wilt 53 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:23,080 Speaker 1: just took hold and spread through the banana crops like wildfire. Yeah, 54 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:25,680 Speaker 1: which is a problem when you have a monoculture, when 55 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:30,400 Speaker 1: you have all these identical essentially plants and you have 56 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:33,360 Speaker 1: a fungus that attacks it, Uh, you're gonna have no 57 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 1: more bananas or any sort of monoculture. So, like you said, 58 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 1: within ten years it's gone went from the O B 59 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:46,800 Speaker 1: to the NOBI And everyone said, we gotta get a 60 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 1: new banana. We invented the cavendish, and that's what we 61 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 1: eat today. It's another monoculture, so something else comes along 62 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:57,120 Speaker 1: that's trouble. But the cavendish is resistant to Panama disease, 63 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:00,720 Speaker 1: and so far, so good. We're the cabinash is doing 64 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:04,560 Speaker 1: pretty well. Yes, but there they've identified a couple of diseases. 65 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:08,320 Speaker 1: The cavendish is not um resistant too, and so if 66 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:11,000 Speaker 1: those diseases ever took hold, we'd have the same problem 67 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 1: all over again. So the banana growing industry does not 68 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:17,280 Speaker 1: learn lessons very well. And that cavendish is if you 69 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 1: are eating a banana today, basically anywhere in the world, 70 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:26,719 Speaker 1: there's genuinely a chance that banana is a Cavendish, because 71 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:31,200 Speaker 1: not only is the cavendish the most widely grown variety 72 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:36,680 Speaker 1: that supplies the world's bananas, um the the cavendishes that 73 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:39,839 Speaker 1: are grown are actually clones of one another. Because it's 74 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:42,599 Speaker 1: really really hard to get a banana to get sexy 75 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 1: with another banana, so they use clones. They take rhizomes 76 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 1: from one plant plant that grow another plant, and so 77 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:52,640 Speaker 1: those plants are clones of one another, meaning they're not 78 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 1: very genetically dissimilar, they're pretty much identical. And um, that 79 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:02,080 Speaker 1: means that if you have a disease that can take 80 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:04,039 Speaker 1: out one of those plants, it can take out all 81 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 1: those plants. And so the Cavendish, like you said, is 82 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 1: in the same position that the gross Michelle is. We've 83 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 1: just lucked out by not happening yet. That's right. So 84 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:17,839 Speaker 1: the top banana is gone, second banana is now dominant, 85 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 1: and I think that's time for a break before I 86 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 1: think of another bad pun, and we'll be right back. Well, 87 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:28,159 Speaker 1: now we're on the road, driving in your truck. Want 88 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 1: to learn a thing or two from Josh can Chuck. 89 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:58,040 Speaker 1: It's stuff you should know, all right, alrighty, so now 90 00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:01,680 Speaker 1: we're at the part where we talk about banana candy 91 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:05,080 Speaker 1: and everything from an Hour Later's I'm sorry now and 92 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 1: Laters always said an hour Laters when I was too 93 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:13,000 Speaker 1: now and Laters, which is really that's a huge sea change. 94 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 1: And I think about it, yeah, because they're saying like, 95 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:19,360 Speaker 1: have them start now, and you're gonna be chewing them 96 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:21,679 Speaker 1: later still too, because they don't go away very fast 97 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 1: or runts or Nico wafers, any of that stuff. You've 98 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 1: probably eaten it and said, this really doesn't taste like 99 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:29,120 Speaker 1: a banana, and like you mentioned the beginning, it is 100 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:32,520 Speaker 1: because it doesn't taste like a cabinish. Apparently it does 101 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:35,880 Speaker 1: taste like a gross Michelle. And there is a very 102 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 1: nuanced story to why. Yeah, because the gist of the story, 103 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 1: the legend as it goes, is that they created this 104 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:50,440 Speaker 1: banana flavoring to to mimic the dominant banana at the time, 105 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 1: the gross Michelle. The gross Michelle went extinct, but this 106 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 1: banana flavoring carried on. And so to those of us 107 00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 1: alive today who've never had a gross Michelle, it seems 108 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:02,040 Speaker 1: weird and foreign. But it's not like the chemists like 109 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:06,839 Speaker 1: extracted gross Michelle and then injected into the candy and 110 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:09,680 Speaker 1: then that's where banana flavoring came from. It's, like you said, 111 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:11,720 Speaker 1: the whole thing was a lot more nuanced than that. 112 00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:15,360 Speaker 1: And in fact, they developed this artificial banana flavor and 113 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:18,720 Speaker 1: then tinkered with it to make it mimic the gross 114 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 1: Michelle um, which as we'll see, they apparently did pretty well. Yeah, 115 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:26,239 Speaker 1: so there was believe it or not, there's a banana 116 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 1: flavoring researcher. I think just general researcher, but an author 117 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:34,040 Speaker 1: named Nadia Rubinstein who did a lot of research on this, 118 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 1: on this story and trace the development of the banana 119 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 1: flavoring back to nineteen twelve by these New Jersey chemists, 120 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 1: the I guess the Fritz brothers. Sure, Fritcha. It's like 121 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 1: Fritz and mixed together scch. It's kind of a weird name. 122 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 1: But they said that Frish she Fris the Freshi brothers. 123 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:01,760 Speaker 1: But they were from New Jersey, so they didn't take 124 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:05,080 Speaker 1: any guff and they didn't didn't want anybody poking around 125 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 1: their banana synthesizing operation. But uh not. Eve Rubenstein found 126 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:13,840 Speaker 1: out that they did isolate from real bananas and that 127 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:16,360 Speaker 1: they were they had to have been gross Michelle because 128 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 1: that was the again, the top banana. Right, So you say, well, 129 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 1: then the story is true. They took gross Michelle essence 130 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 1: and put it into candies. Still not quite right, because 131 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:29,040 Speaker 1: it gets a little more convoluted than that, because what 132 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:32,760 Speaker 1: they extracted from the gross Michelle and identified as basically 133 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 1: banana essence is a chemical compound called amal ascetate. And 134 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:42,320 Speaker 1: it's not just found in bananas, it's found in other 135 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 1: fruits and it's actually one of the other fruits that 136 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:48,200 Speaker 1: it's really kind of predominant. It is pairs and um. 137 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:51,200 Speaker 1: Rubinstein found from a research that depending on the company 138 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:54,959 Speaker 1: you're buying from and the decade it was, uh amal 139 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:58,800 Speaker 1: ascetate would be marketed in their catalogs either as banana 140 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 1: essence or pair essence, and that over the years it 141 00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:04,160 Speaker 1: eventually is just kind of evened out into a generic 142 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:09,440 Speaker 1: fruity essence because it's it is. It depends a lot 143 00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:12,800 Speaker 1: on the power of suggestion and the nose or tongue 144 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:16,440 Speaker 1: of the beholder what fruit evokes. Yeah, and this is 145 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 1: I think where it gets super cool because, uh, if 146 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:21,720 Speaker 1: you live in the UK, you probably eat a little 147 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 1: more pear than banana, or at least historically or culturally, 148 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 1: that's sort of the deal. Then you might hear in 149 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:31,559 Speaker 1: the United States, I think Americans eat like what like 150 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:33,800 Speaker 1: a hundred and thirty bananas a or something like that. 151 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:38,280 Speaker 1: That's everyone around the world. Yeah, but the UK is 152 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 1: big on their pears and pear flavor things. So if 153 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:45,560 Speaker 1: you take the very same exact vial of that what's 154 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:49,080 Speaker 1: it called again, amial ascetate, amial acetate, he's sticking under 155 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 1: the nose. First of all, you say, get that beer 156 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:53,560 Speaker 1: pine out of your hands so you can smell something 157 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:56,480 Speaker 1: for a change, And they say, all right, and you 158 00:09:56,520 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 1: put that vial under the nose of someone from the UK, 159 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:06,400 Speaker 1: they'll say, tastes like pears. Put that same vile under 160 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 1: an American. First of all, you smack the the cheap 161 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:12,240 Speaker 1: light beer out of the American's hand and you put 162 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:14,560 Speaker 1: that under their nose, and they'll say it tastes like 163 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:19,080 Speaker 1: a banana. And it's the same thing, right, It's the 164 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:22,680 Speaker 1: same vial. It all depends on what you've been exposed to. 165 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:26,080 Speaker 1: Remember we were talking about like like Gray candy having 166 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:29,319 Speaker 1: banana flavor. If you would even be able to recognize 167 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 1: this banana flavor, like I was right in a really 168 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:35,319 Speaker 1: roundabout way, which I was sure super love that kind 169 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 1: of thing, um, because you you you have to basically 170 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:43,920 Speaker 1: tell people this is banana candy, this flavor, it's banana flavor. Um. 171 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:49,040 Speaker 1: And the thing is, though, is they really did kind 172 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:54,080 Speaker 1: of nail the taste of gross Michelle with this um 173 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:59,280 Speaker 1: amial acetate. Because upon later inspection, food science and flavoring 174 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:02,480 Speaker 1: science has gotten exponentially more sophisticated than it was back 175 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:06,840 Speaker 1: in n when the Fritzie Brothers were working UM and 176 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:10,600 Speaker 1: they found that that Gross Michelle bananas had more of 177 00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 1: a related compound called iso amal acetate than the Cavendish does. 178 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 1: And UM that because of this kind of thicker concentration 179 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:25,400 Speaker 1: of amal acetate in this this banana flavoring, it evokes 180 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:28,640 Speaker 1: the Gross Michelle way more than it does the Cavendish. 181 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 1: And like you said, beyond his food scientists, there is 182 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:35,920 Speaker 1: a a banana grower in Hawaii that does grow that 183 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:39,360 Speaker 1: top banana, the o G banana, the Gross Michelle and 184 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 1: they went out, you know, the BBC interviewed this guy 185 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:43,800 Speaker 1: and he was like, They're like, well, what it was 186 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:46,280 Speaker 1: the Gross Michelle taste? Like he said, it tastes like 187 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:49,520 Speaker 1: that fake banana flavor. Yeah, it tastes like a runt 188 00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:52,679 Speaker 1: to basically. Uh. And then and he said, you know, 189 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:54,800 Speaker 1: when I first tasted, it made me think of banana flavoring. 190 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:57,120 Speaker 1: So I want to get my hands on one of 191 00:11:57,120 --> 00:11:58,880 Speaker 1: those Gross Michelle. I want to go to Hawaii and 192 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:02,280 Speaker 1: and check this thing out. Yeah. Same here. Next time 193 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:04,319 Speaker 1: we're in Hawaii, Chuck, I'll bring you back some Gross 194 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:07,920 Speaker 1: Michells because they're great for shipping. That's right, You just 195 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:10,520 Speaker 1: drop one in the mail. Yeah. I will put some 196 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:13,599 Speaker 1: stamps on it and send it to you. Ah, you 197 00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:16,959 Speaker 1: got anything else about gross Michelle or banana flavoring. No. 198 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:20,560 Speaker 1: I thought this was super interesting. Me too. I've loved it. 199 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:23,240 Speaker 1: So thanks for all the to the listeners who wrote 200 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:26,679 Speaker 1: in to let us know about this wonderful little story. 201 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 1: Uh and in the meantime, everybody's short stuff is out. 202 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:35,440 Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of I Heart Radio. 203 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:38,480 Speaker 1: For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the I heart 204 00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:41,440 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 205 00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:42,199 Speaker 1: favorite shows.