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Speaker 1: Welcome to Strictly Business, Variety's weekly podcast featuring conversations with

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Speaker 1: industry leaders about the business of media and entertainment. I'm

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Speaker 1: Cynthia Littleton, co editor in chief of Variety. On today's episode,

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Speaker 1: we bring you a fantastic, a rollicking panel about the

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Speaker 1: creator economy. It was recorded on January eighth at the

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Speaker 1: Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas. Variety hosted a two

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Speaker 1: day summit at CEES this year. Day two was all

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Speaker 1: about the creator economy. The panel we're featuring here has

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Speaker 1: a fabulous cross section of people who are in the trenches,

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Speaker 1: doing the work and making money at it. My great

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Speaker 1: Variety colleague Todd Spangler did a skilled job of steering

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Speaker 1: the conversation into specifics that illuminate this unique media marketplace.

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Speaker 1: The panel is still hear from our Lewis Ball, chief

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Speaker 1: Product and Strategy Officer for Rich Bloom, Executive vice president

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Speaker 1: and general manager of Creator Programs for tb Alessandra Katanese,

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Speaker 1: CEO of Smoth, Aleen Drexler, founder and CEO of Betch's Media,

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Speaker 1: Griffin Hadrill, co founder and CEO of Elevate, and Hannah Stocking,

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Speaker 1: an award winning content creator who had seventy three million

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Speaker 1: followers across various social media platforms at the time we recorded.

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Speaker 1: She's probably got more now, So please enjoy this full

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Speaker 1: panel and take notes.

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Speaker 2: Oh, we have a real live creator here, Hannah Stocking,

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Speaker 2: who has more than seventy three million followers, maybe more

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Speaker 2: than that now, yeah, yes, at last count. Anyway, so

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Speaker 2: we'll just go down the row here and tell us

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Speaker 2: a little bit about yourself, what you do, and what

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Speaker 2: the creator economy means to you.

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Speaker 3: Well, hello, everybody, I'm Hannah Stocking, very happy to be here.

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Speaker 3: I've been in the space for about thirteen years now

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Speaker 3: and I just want to say thank you guys so

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Speaker 3: much for coming back in the day. I mean, it

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Speaker 3: was always a dream of mine to bridge the gap

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Speaker 3: between traditional and digital and being able to have these

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Speaker 3: conversations is just a dream come true. And I'm really

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Speaker 3: excited that we're, you know, starting to bridge this gap.

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Speaker 3: The creator economy is something you know, I'm extremely passionate about.

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Speaker 3: I feel like back in the day it was definitely

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Speaker 3: overlooked and there's so much work ethic involved, and I

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Speaker 3: feel like creators now are you know, starting to think

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Speaker 3: like entrepreneurs, business owners and We're almost our own digital

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Speaker 3: media company. And I think that's that's really special.

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Speaker 2: And I think that's that Squares was something that I've

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Speaker 2: observed is that people don't understand how hard folks like

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Speaker 2: can oftalcking work. It's a full time job and a half. Anyway,

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Speaker 2: moving on here, Griffin Hadral, Yeah, I'm Griffin Elevated. You

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Speaker 2: know you've known Hannah for some time.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I've twenty six ten years so yeah, yeah, yeah, hear,

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Speaker 4: and I've done the last time.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Throughout the years, Griffin Hadrill. I run an influencer media

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Speaker 4: and content marketing company called Elevate. We're based actually out

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Speaker 4: in Las Vegas. We work with thousands of creators over

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Speaker 4: the years. You know, we actually just just got a

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Speaker 4: call from my account in a.

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Speaker 5: Couple of weeks ago.

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Speaker 4: We've so we paid out over eleven thousand creators over

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Speaker 4: the past several years, so a lot of ten ninety nine.

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Speaker 4: But excited to be up here. Influencer has been something

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Speaker 4: I've been super passionate about since Vine and the YouTube

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Speaker 4: and the musically into tiktoks.

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Speaker 2: All right. Next, we have Lewis Ball, who is a

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Speaker 2: Chief Product Strategy Officer at Ray One. Time known as

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Speaker 2: broadband TV. Tell us what the company does today.

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Speaker 6: We started right at the side of the create economy.

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Speaker 2: We were talking earlier.

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Speaker 6: I'm not even sure we called it the credit economy

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Speaker 6: back in two thousand and six, thousand and five. But

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Speaker 6: today our focus is on building ay I for creators.

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Speaker 6: We just launched a platform called Made in December, focus

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Speaker 6: on allowing creators who have to wear an unbelievable amount

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Speaker 6: of different hats, from being their creative strategies from production

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Speaker 6: to community engagement to you know, putting their data analyst

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Speaker 6: on and managing all of their auxiliary monetization channels. There's

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Speaker 6: so many things. Often you know, just one person doing

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Speaker 6: this or a couple of people or a small team.

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Speaker 6: So our focus is on using AI to be able

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Speaker 6: to develop creators into more media companies, also in the

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Speaker 6: process of helping them enjoy creating more, reducing burnout and

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Speaker 6: so on and so forth.

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Speaker 2: Okay, next, we have a Leen Drexler who is CEO

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Speaker 2: of Betches.

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Speaker 7: Tayamileen Drexler, CEO and co founder of Beaches Media, launched

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Speaker 7: Beatches fifteen years ago. Now with my two childhood friends,

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Speaker 7: bootstrapped it, got acquired two years ago and now I'm

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Speaker 7: building batches into the future. We sat at an interesting

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Speaker 7: intersection between the creator economy and I guess I don't

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Speaker 7: want to even call it traditional media, but modern media

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Speaker 7: because we ourselves, our brands operate like a creator. We

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Speaker 7: have the trust and the loyalty and the fan obsession

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Speaker 7: of a creator, but the scale and reach of a

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Speaker 7: modern media company. So we work with creators, and we

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Speaker 7: ourselves are creators. And we worked with Jake Shane on

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Speaker 7: a big Uber eats campaign I was telling you earlier

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Speaker 7: about for the Holidays and Megan thee Stallion and all.

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Speaker 7: But then we also develop creators in house, like Hannah Berner,

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Speaker 7: who came through our doors for a while.

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Speaker 5: All right.

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Speaker 2: Next we have Rich Bloom, who is gm off creator

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Speaker 2: program is at two B. You're kind of the Internet

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Speaker 2: startup inside of Fox Corporation.

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Speaker 8: A TWOB is by many measures, the biggest AT supported

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Speaker 8: streaming platform. We have over one hundred million monthly active users.

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Speaker 8: We stream over billion hours a month, and it's a

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Speaker 8: completely free, at supported platform with very low friction. And

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Speaker 8: so I joined last year in April to launch and

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Speaker 8: build QB for creators. It's been live for about seven months.

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Speaker 8: The mission of QB for Creators is to give creators

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Speaker 8: a pathway to Hollywood that allows them to maintain their

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Speaker 8: authenticity that made them popular in the first place, give

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Speaker 8: them creative freedom, and importantly allow them to maintain ownership

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Speaker 8: of their IP while getting into the streaming space. We

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Speaker 8: launched in June with about six creators and a few

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Speaker 8: hundred episodes of content, and we're scaling really quickly with

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Speaker 8: about one hundred and fifty creators on the platform now

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Speaker 8: over thirteen thousand episodes of content. And it's a mix

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Speaker 8: of non exclusive library content that they're already making, and

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Speaker 8: then also we're funding exclusive production for content that lives

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Speaker 8: on tubing.

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Speaker 2: And then right there in the end, we have Ali

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Speaker 2: Cantonese Yes CEO Smash, which is probably the longest running

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Speaker 2: YouTube native comedy brand out there.

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Speaker 9: Smash is a twenty year old median production company did

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Speaker 9: buy Anthony piden Ian Heacocks. They were creator duo that

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Speaker 9: started in their bedroom. It was a website first and

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Speaker 9: then it became a YouTube channel once they realized that

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Speaker 9: hosting video content on their website was very expensive.

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Speaker 2: And Smash at one point was the number one most

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Speaker 2: subscribe channel world on YouTube.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, we're also the first to hit one thousand subscribers,

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Speaker 9: ten thousand subscribers, a million subscribers, and ten million subscribers.

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Speaker 2: They're og creators. Yeah, and what's next for Smash You've

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Speaker 2: got a live special coming up. Yeah.

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Speaker 9: Next Friday the sixteenth, we have a live ticketed event.

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Speaker 9: So it's a live streamed live show. It's called Smash

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Speaker 9: Hospital and it's an improv focused hospital. Think the Pit

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Speaker 9: meets Gray's Anatomy.

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Speaker 2: We liked have.

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Speaker 9: Fun, we like comedy, and so we have some really

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Speaker 9: strong improvisers on our talent roster. We have about fifteen

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Speaker 9: creators that we work with and they're very talented.

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Speaker 2: And tell us a little bit about your origin story.

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Speaker 2: How did you get into this business in this career.

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Speaker 2: Did you grow up thinking you wanted to be a

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Speaker 2: creator and you know, creating fun and interesting stuff on

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Speaker 2: YouTube which probably didn't exist.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So I actually grew up pretty poor and I

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Speaker 3: remember looking up on Google what's the occupation I could

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Speaker 3: make the most money, And at the time, it was

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Speaker 3: be a doctor. So I said, you bet. So I

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Speaker 3: actually got a volleyball scholarship to college and crazy, but

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Speaker 3: I double majored in biology and chemistry and did embryonic

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Speaker 3: stem cell research. And while I was at the gym

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Speaker 3: one day training for volleyball, I met a couple Viners

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Speaker 3: and they said something funny to me. I guess I

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Speaker 3: said something funny to them back, and they were like, hey, okay, uh,

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Speaker 3: why why don't you come out and vine with us?

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Speaker 3: And I thought that was so crazy because I just

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Speaker 3: assumed vines were just off the cuff videos that you

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Speaker 3: just take of your cat and so anyways, they were

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Speaker 3: all really funny, and it was just an opportunity to

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Speaker 3: get out of the house and not just hang out

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Speaker 3: with my cats and my parents and so anyways, I

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Speaker 3: made my first vine.

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Speaker 2: And fine, in case you didn't know, that's the six

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Speaker 2: second video platform. The Twitter shutdown, but it was super popular.

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Speaker 2: I mean it prefigured TikTok. If they just hung on

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Speaker 2: to it, I don't know. Yeah, the different.

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Speaker 3: They're like six second videos. But anyways, I got one

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Speaker 3: hundred thousand followers in one day. It went viral, and

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Speaker 3: the Viners basically sat me down and they said, you

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Speaker 3: have a fan base. Now you owe it to your

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Speaker 3: fans to come out with more content. We're vining tomorrow

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Speaker 3: at ten am sharp come with three ideas, and I was.

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Speaker 2: Like, okay, why not.

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Speaker 3: I you know, still stuck with you know, my degrees

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Speaker 3: and finished all that. And then my goal was to

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Speaker 3: just you know, take a year off while I studied

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Speaker 3: for the MCAT and just do vines on the side

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Speaker 3: and make enough money for med school. And then you know,

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Speaker 3: months went by and I made that, and then my

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Speaker 3: parents are confused. I'm confused and my dad still confused

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Speaker 3: at what I did.

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Speaker 2: Do you do?

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Speaker 3: And he doesn't get it? But yeah, that was about

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Speaker 3: thirteen years ago, and I'm like a cockroach in the bathroom.

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Speaker 3: You know, you can't get rid of me. It's still

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Speaker 3: kicking somehow.

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Speaker 2: Has your goal been to become a TV movie actor?

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Speaker 2: I mean, you've been in Wrong Paris, It's this movie

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Speaker 2: with Miranda Carosgrove, right, and you're in this new microdrama

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Speaker 2: called Playback just coming out soon. What is your career

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Speaker 2: path now?

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Speaker 3: Well, when I first started, short form content wasn't really

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Speaker 3: a lucrative form. It was just so long ago. It

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Speaker 3: was honestly purely off of delusion.

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Speaker 2: I love finding as a verb. That's such a throwback.

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Speaker 3: Well, I just feel like then versus now. It's more

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Speaker 3: like now I'm starting. What's changed is scale and intention,

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Speaker 3: And you know, my intention now is to create IP

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Speaker 3: brand partnerships, diving into traditional film. And how I learned

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Speaker 3: how to do social media is to be in other

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Speaker 3: people's social media videos. And now you know, it's being

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Speaker 3: done now and it can't be overlooked that creators are

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Speaker 3: diving into the traditional space and creating their own TV

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Speaker 3: shows and movies, and so yeah, I was fortunate enough

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Speaker 3: to be in Netflix, Romcom and a couple other movies

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Speaker 3: and verticals where I can really just learn how it works.

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Speaker 3: And yeah, the goal is to kind of keep doing

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Speaker 3: what I'm doing, create brands, start brands, own them, and

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Speaker 3: also do that as well.

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Speaker 2: Griffin, let me ask you, you know what, give us a

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Speaker 2: level set. What does your business look like today? And

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Speaker 2: how has that changed in the last three or four years.

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Speaker 4: Oh, that's a good question, I would say. So when

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Speaker 4: this start, you know, years and years ago, it was

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Speaker 4: really you know, we developed a model where we paid creators,

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Speaker 4: we represented the brand, right, so we worked on behalf

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Speaker 4: of the brand, finding ways for them to integrate with creators.

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Speaker 4: Very early on in the creator industry. So we had

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Speaker 4: to spend a lot of time, money, attention, people manpower

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Speaker 4: to educate companies that the creator space was a valuable

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Speaker 4: space to be in.

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Speaker 5: Turns out we were right.

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Speaker 4: But I think for all the good reasons, I think

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Speaker 4: creator economy is shifting so much, and right now more

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Speaker 4: than ever. I think, to Hannah's point on franchising, we

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Speaker 4: used to pay creators and I think just a flat

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Speaker 4: rate for participation in a brand campaign, if you will. Now,

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Speaker 4: I think what we're seeing is more collaboration with the

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Speaker 4: creators to help them franchise, help them earn the.

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Speaker 2: Upside, and so that's based on performance metrics.

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Speaker 5: That's based on performance metrics.

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Speaker 4: I think what we're trying to look at now is

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Speaker 4: how do we represent the brand, but also how do

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Speaker 4: we represent the creator in a unique partnership where we're

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Speaker 4: developing joint ventures between the brand and the creator. We're

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Speaker 4: developing upside opportunities and models where the creator has unlimited

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Speaker 4: earning potential if the franchise opportunity goes well. And in

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Speaker 4: addition to that, I think we're trying to re engineer

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Speaker 4: what does the future of creator dealmaking look like? So

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Speaker 4: we're empowering creator first so that they can be an

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Speaker 4: authentic representation to the brand. That's how we're changing and

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Speaker 4: we're modernizing. And I would say in addition to that,

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Speaker 4: we're also seeing as much as things are living in

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Speaker 4: the digital world, we're trying to bring those out in

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Speaker 4: the physical world. So we just launched the stunts and

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Speaker 4: activation business, or we're doing all sorts of fun, crazy

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Speaker 4: things that require a lot of releases and legal sign offs,

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Speaker 4: but it's super exciting. How do we bring creators into

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Speaker 4: the physical world, how do we bring brands into the

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Speaker 4: physical world, and then how do we amplify that into

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Speaker 4: the digital world?

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Speaker 2: Lewis when it comes to pain points that creators have,

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Speaker 2: I mean, are they they're much the same that they've

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Speaker 2: always been, haven't they? Or what is different today?

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Speaker 6: Well, I mean when we started, when folks run their

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Speaker 6: bedroom webcam, you know, there was a sixteen x nine format,

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Speaker 6: there was one platform. Really, I mean there's a couple

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Speaker 6: of a little I mean obviously still there. It's still there,

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Speaker 6: still doing pretty well, and people would aim for maybe

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Speaker 6: like a three or four minute video because that's what

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Speaker 6: performed really well in the era of the algorithm being

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Speaker 6: a little bit more predictable.

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Speaker 2: We're talking about YouTube.

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Speaker 5: We're talking about YouTube.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, so that's where things started. I mean, now we're

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Speaker 6: at the point where there's legitimate other video platforms that

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Speaker 6: you know, creators can generate revenue from. There's a whole

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Speaker 6: bunch of different formats. We're talking about everything from you know,

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Speaker 6: like thirty second content all the way up to you know,

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Speaker 6: feature length films and so things have got ultimately far

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Speaker 6: more complex, but there's a lot of stuff that hasn't changed.

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Speaker 6: And the stuff that hasn't changed is the creator's ability

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Speaker 6: to peep duels these things. So I think the job

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Speaker 6: of the creator has become infinitely more challenging. And that's

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Speaker 6: why for us, I think when we when we look

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Speaker 6: at the opportunity around AI and what we're investing in,

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Speaker 6: that's all a lot of these that was a lot

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Speaker 6: of more problems coming down with AI generated content, and

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Speaker 6: there's going to be some other stuff there that is

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Speaker 6: going to be a wall wind for both creators and

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Speaker 6: platforms navigate. But ultimately AI gives the ability for creators

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Speaker 6: to be able to enhance everything that they do.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's important I think to distinguish AI as a

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Speaker 2: management tool is a technology management thing versus AI generated content. Aleen,

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Speaker 2: we were talking about this a little bit, and your

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Speaker 2: point was that trust becomes the currency for creators in

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Speaker 2: an AI saturated world. Can you extrap a little little.

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Speaker 7: Bit more on that or just thinking about the future,

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Speaker 7: what is going to be apparent is that we're going

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Speaker 7: to have a lot of AI generated content on every platform. Well,

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Speaker 7: there is a lot right now. Can you imagine what

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Speaker 7: it's going to be like in just one year, like,

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Speaker 7: let alone five to ten. I think that a prob

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Speaker 7: a challenge for creators will be having to keep up

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Speaker 7: with the volume. I do think that audiences will might

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Speaker 7: get sick of it, and we'll want to go back

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Speaker 7: to finding real human connection, whether that's online and offline,

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Speaker 7: and that's something that I'm personally investing in with batches.

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Speaker 7: But I do think that trust is going to be

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Speaker 7: the number one form of currency for brands to reach audiences,

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Speaker 7: for creators to reach their own audiences, just all across

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Speaker 7: the board, You're going to have to use metrics that

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Speaker 7: relay trust and less about scale. I think that's what's

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Speaker 7: where we're headed. I'm excited to use AI though, to

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Speaker 7: power the content and enable us to connect with our audiences.

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Speaker 7: But I think people, no matter what, especially as AI

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Speaker 7: becomes really prevalent online, they're going to be creeving human

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Speaker 7: connection and that's what we already do. So I'm excited

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Speaker 7: to see how we can do that even better with AI.

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Speaker 2: Hanna, let me ask you, how do you view this

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Speaker 2: AI content trend?

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Speaker 6: Is?

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Speaker 2: Does that mean for you and your business?

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Speaker 3: Well, I'm already I'm already using it. I'm definitely using

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Speaker 3: it as a tool. I think it's super cost efficient

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Speaker 3: for me and time efficient, and right now I'm kind

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Speaker 3: of using chatchept trying to kind of spark ideas. I

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Speaker 3: don't think creatively it's where it needs to be yet. However,

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Speaker 3: it does provoke thoughts for me where I can kind

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Speaker 3: of write concepts around and then when it comes to editing,

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Speaker 3: I definitely play around with realism the effects a lot,

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Speaker 3: and then just silly the effects and I basically go

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Speaker 3: on chat cept, I figure out the exact prompt to

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Speaker 3: use in what I'm looking for, I throw it in

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Speaker 3: clean or nano banana, and then it just spits it out.

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Speaker 2: And it's beautiful. But have you been deep faked? I mean,

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Speaker 2: is that an issue for you as a creator.

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Speaker 3: I haven't that I know about.

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Speaker 2: I don't mean to give anybody.

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Speaker 9: Is ignorance might be bliss there, what's it said, ignorance?

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Speaker 9: It might be bliss?

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Speaker 2: What What is your perspective on this? From you know,

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Speaker 2: Smash's point of view, Alley, is it that nothing replaces

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Speaker 2: spontaneous human comedy.

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Speaker 9: I think personally, AI has its functions, and I am

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Speaker 9: sure that we're not even seeing or maybe even contemplating

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Speaker 9: the ways in which it can bring positives to the industry.

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Speaker 9: I'm sure there's a lot that we have to work

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Speaker 9: out professionally. And from Smash's standpoint, AI does not understand nuance.

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Speaker 9: It doesn't understand the complexity of a joke, it doesn't

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Speaker 9: understand comedic timing. It's not going to replace the people

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Speaker 9: and the humanity behind content of our kind anyway. And

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Speaker 9: you know, I'm sure that there are people out there

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Speaker 9: who might disagree. But the same way, I can't go

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Speaker 9: to Egypt and tell jokes that are American. You know,

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Speaker 9: you can't have AI trying to tell right. It just

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Speaker 9: doesn't translate well. And it's everything from slang and local

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Speaker 9: jargon or just you know, even like if you think

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Speaker 9: about going to a different country, they have different political leaders, celebrities,

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Speaker 9: they have different phrases or terms of sayings, right, So

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Speaker 9: there's just different ways to communicate.

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Speaker 5: You know.

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Speaker 9: One of my closest friends is Irish and she has

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Speaker 9: her little Irish sayings and I'm always like, what does

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Speaker 9: that mean? What did you just say? What does that mean?

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Speaker 9: And she's like, oh, you've never heard that. It means

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Speaker 9: da da da, And to her that's a normal phrase.

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Speaker 9: To me, I've never heard it before. So I feel

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Speaker 9: the same way with Ai. I'm sure that in time

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Speaker 9: it will learn. But I think from Smash's perspective, the

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Speaker 9: beauty and the funny is never in intentionality. It's always

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Speaker 9: in the casual conversations that we have person to person,

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Speaker 9: you know, and smash Mouth is a prime example of that.

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Speaker 9: It's one of our biggest podcasts besides Reddit Stories. It's

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Speaker 9: just having chatting and they're not trying to be funny.

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Speaker 9: They don't have scripted jokes ready to go. They just

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Speaker 9: find the funny in the conversation, in the friendship, in

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Speaker 9: the collaboration, and that's an organic thing that I don't

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Speaker 9: know if AI will ever be able to create.

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Speaker 5: You know.

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Speaker 6: The interesting thing there though, is that I remember back

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Speaker 6: in the day, what Hollywood would say about the first

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Speaker 6: YouTube content. Probably garbage would be a word arted amongst

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Speaker 6: many of the studio. That's where it would start it, right,

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Speaker 6: But look where we are today. It's two hundred fifty

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Speaker 6: you know, midoll.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, for a lot of people, YouTube is TV, and

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Speaker 2: AI might become that.

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Speaker 9: But my point isn't that AI is garbage. My point

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Speaker 9: is that AI doesn't understand the nuance behind comedy specific

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Speaker 9: It's worry because.

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Speaker 6: It underdea And that's why it's interesting because creators are

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Speaker 6: now in that space where Hollywood maybe was fifteen twenty

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Speaker 6: years ago, because I think we're constantly surprised what happens

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Speaker 6: with AI week after week. I mean, it might be

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Speaker 6: next week that it suddenly is magically funny.

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Speaker 9: Right, I guess the point I'm making is now the

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Speaker 9: nuance be hind comedy is an organic and a very

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Speaker 9: personal touch that I don't think AI is capable of.

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Speaker 2: The chatty UBT can't tell jokes.

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Speaker 9: We might not know the future, but what we do

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Speaker 9: know is that AI is very good at learning what

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Speaker 9: we already know.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, you need to Smash GVT and a hand a

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Speaker 4: gbtse the creativity that comes out of both those channels

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Speaker 4: are like second to none. You know, as much as

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Speaker 4: I know you probably problem chat GBT. There's nothing's competing

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Speaker 4: with Hannah's mind or smashed his creativity around their content.

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Speaker 2: Rich let me ask you, why is creator content and

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Speaker 2: original content from creators? Why is that something to be

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Speaker 2: as interested in? Because like simply rebroadcasting stuff they've already

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Speaker 2: produced on YouTube that seems redundant. What's the strategy here?

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Speaker 8: So we're doing more than that, But there is great

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Speaker 8: value for TB's audience and for creators to take existing

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Speaker 8: content and have it live on TB. For to our

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Speaker 8: audience skews younger over half our audience or gen Z millennial.

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Speaker 8: We heard really clearly from them that they wanted more

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Speaker 8: unique storytelling and the number one place they pointed to

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Speaker 8: was creator content. And we had a couple of originals

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Speaker 8: like Sideline featuring Noah Beck that was our biggest original

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Speaker 8: of all time, that solidified the desire for it, and

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Speaker 8: a lot of tow B secret sauce is the breath

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Speaker 8: and depth of our libraries. So we have the biggest

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Speaker 8: library of any streaming service. We have three thousand movies

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Speaker 8: and TV shows, so our approach to creator is really

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Speaker 8: unique to to B so we're really good at creating

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Speaker 8: these We talk a lot about creating rabbit holes of fandom,

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Speaker 8: and so with the signals we saw from our audience,

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Speaker 8: with everything just going on in the ecosystem, it was

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Speaker 8: a natural progression for us to really go deep and

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Speaker 8: wide with getting creator content that in these fandoms that

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Speaker 8: we already have, and what we're seeing on TV is

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Speaker 8: someone might come and watch a video from Watcher is

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Speaker 8: a great creator in the horror and paranormal space, and

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Speaker 8: then they'll watch it to be movie. And then we

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Speaker 8: are also getting exclusive content where we're funding new original

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Speaker 8: content from creators, getting an exclusive window that's appealing to

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Speaker 8: our existing audience and also drawing audience of fans for.

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Speaker 2: MACREA gall you can address is it's sort of the

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Speaker 2: Saturday Night Live model in it, and I think Alean

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Speaker 2: you mentioned something like this too, where you have creators

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Speaker 2: who've become super famous in their own right. I'm going

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Speaker 2: to bigger and better things maybe or different things. How

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Speaker 2: do you manage That's the bet that I have.

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Speaker 7: I think it's great that you are creators that you've

437
00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:48,760
Speaker 7: developed in your brand have gone on to become bigger

438
00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:52,159
Speaker 7: than you could have even imagined. The reason, you know,

439
00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:55,200
Speaker 7: I started Betches because I cared about a brand. I

440
00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:57,239
Speaker 7: didn't want to be the face of it, because I

441
00:23:57,280 --> 00:24:00,320
Speaker 7: wanted it to live on beyond me, because I knew

442
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:02,320
Speaker 7: that that's where the value is. I knew I wouldn't

443
00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:05,040
Speaker 7: ever be able to exit if I was the face.

444
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:08,440
Speaker 7: What you're seeing now, though, is with the creator economy,

445
00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:11,639
Speaker 7: it's turned that idea on its head. I believe that

446
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:16,879
Speaker 7: I have the brand that is like the New Age SNL,

447
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:19,880
Speaker 7: where people can come to make it and whether they

448
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:22,719
Speaker 7: come and stay and create things like hot Ones and

449
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:27,439
Speaker 7: sean at Complex, or they go on and become huge

450
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:29,720
Speaker 7: on their own. But that's my bet and that's what

451
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:33,560
Speaker 7: my vision is for. When it comes to talent within Betches,

452
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:37,200
Speaker 7: it's the talent has to fit within the Betch's ethos.

453
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:39,960
Speaker 7: It has to be women who are funny, or people

454
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:43,159
Speaker 7: who make our audience who are young women laugh and

455
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:47,240
Speaker 7: also make them feel seen or less alone. That's exactly

456
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:49,800
Speaker 7: It's about sticking to that brand and sticking to that

457
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:53,919
Speaker 7: vision and knowing exactly who your audience is and what

458
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:54,960
Speaker 7: their behaviors are like.

459
00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:57,879
Speaker 2: Ali, do you have any thoughts on this, Yeah.

460
00:24:57,640 --> 00:24:59,879
Speaker 9: We have a very similar model. We're so happy to

461
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,560
Speaker 9: work with creators who have existed in the Smash ecosystem,

462
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:07,160
Speaker 9: are not from the Smash ecosystem, or will live beyond

463
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 9: the Smash ecosystem. Some of them are full time, most

464
00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:12,680
Speaker 9: of them are part time, which is the new term

465
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:16,199
Speaker 9: for freelance. But essentially what that means to us is

466
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:19,880
Speaker 9: every single member of our cast is working on independent

467
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:23,240
Speaker 9: projects beyond us, and we support those independent projects very often.

468
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:27,199
Speaker 9: Arasha just had a show that she put together, a

469
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:29,440
Speaker 9: live show that became a film. It was called How

470
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:31,920
Speaker 9: I Met Your Mazi. It was very specific to her culture.

471
00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:35,080
Speaker 9: She did it with her partner Lily. We supported that.

472
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:37,600
Speaker 9: Not only did we help invest a little bit in

473
00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:41,440
Speaker 9: the celebration of it, but we also marketed it on

474
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:44,960
Speaker 9: our socials, which is a very easy, low lift thing

475
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:48,120
Speaker 9: for us to do to support another creator, especially somebody

476
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:51,520
Speaker 9: that we love to work with. If one of our

477
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:54,359
Speaker 9: biggest talent, or any of our talent left to go

478
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:57,880
Speaker 9: do something beyond us, no matter what it was, we'd

479
00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:00,399
Speaker 9: be happy to support their dream to get there in

480
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:02,600
Speaker 9: any way, shape or form. And that's why Anthony and

481
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:05,199
Speaker 9: Ian have taken a big step back. You know, I

482
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 9: think Anthony more in particular loves to work behind the

483
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:11,160
Speaker 9: camera because he loves to work on the strategy of content.

484
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:15,159
Speaker 9: And Ian in particular still is on camera and is

485
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 9: working on a lot of his like solo stand up

486
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:21,320
Speaker 9: routines and acts, so like that's something he's investing in.

487
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 9: They're all artists. The two founders of our company are artists. However,

488
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:28,880
Speaker 9: they have expanded this cast well before me in order

489
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:30,919
Speaker 9: to make sure that we have a future and to

490
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:33,119
Speaker 9: invest in the future generations of talent.

491
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:37,120
Speaker 2: And there's brand value that accrues to you somebody being

492
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:40,480
Speaker 2: a Smash alumni or something. Absolutely, And you know, I

493
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 2: think this works at a platform level too. Neil Mohanna

494
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 2: YouTube says, Look, Jimmy Donaldson, mister Beece, he can go

495
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,600
Speaker 2: do this Amazon show and that's great, Like he'll always

496
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:51,720
Speaker 2: have a home at YouTube. The challenge is how to

497
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:55,240
Speaker 2: pick your targets and where to spend your time and energy?

498
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:56,240
Speaker 2: How do you do that?

499
00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:59,480
Speaker 3: Always crawling on the floor, It just desperate for ideas

500
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 3: all the time. It really is at least for me,

501
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,240
Speaker 3: a rat race. It's a twenty four to seven job.

502
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 3: I think consistency is key in this space. I think

503
00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:12,240
Speaker 3: if you do take some time off, your engagement takes

504
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:14,440
Speaker 3: a severe hit, and then when you need to come back,

505
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:16,159
Speaker 3: you need to make sure you come back with a

506
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:19,440
Speaker 3: bang or video. I say twenty four to seven because

507
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:22,040
Speaker 3: even if I'm having a conversation with someone, I'm still

508
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:25,680
Speaker 3: thinking of, oh ideas or how can I elevate myself

509
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:28,560
Speaker 3: and create more IP and all of that.

510
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:32,479
Speaker 8: I can talk about this from Twov's perspective as a

511
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:37,200
Speaker 8: new platform in the space asking creators to do something new.

512
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:40,439
Speaker 8: When it comes to exclusive content, we hear from creators

513
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:42,639
Speaker 8: again and again like the most valuable resource we have

514
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:46,439
Speaker 8: is our time. So for us, we're really mindful in

515
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 8: terms of working with creators and getting not exclusive content.

516
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:51,840
Speaker 8: It's a really low friction way to get access to

517
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:54,639
Speaker 8: a bigger audience. About thirty percent of our audience is

518
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 8: not on YouTube. And then when it comes to exclusive content,

519
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:00,679
Speaker 8: it's really working with creators and finding passion projects that

520
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 8: they have. It's really clear us if we're selling them

521
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:05,800
Speaker 8: on it, it's not going to work. It has to

522
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:07,639
Speaker 8: be something where they're like, I want to take this

523
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:10,119
Speaker 8: thing I've been making and elevated, or I have something

524
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 8: new I want to make and they have to really

525
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:14,640
Speaker 8: believe in it and want to make it, or it's

526
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:17,920
Speaker 8: not going to work because of one of the big

527
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:21,280
Speaker 8: reasons being burnt out and how they're being pulled in

528
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 8: so many different directions.

529
00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:25,280
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's a bit hyperbolic, perhaps, but I think most

530
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:27,800
Speaker 6: creators a slave to the algorithm. You know, it's very

531
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:29,879
Speaker 6: difficult to know. I mean here Hannah talking about like

532
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:32,280
Speaker 6: how it feels like a you know, a hempstore, a whale.

533
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:34,840
Speaker 6: If you get how the wheel stops, good luck getting

534
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:37,119
Speaker 6: it back up. It's difficult. We've seen creator after creator

535
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:40,280
Speaker 6: after creator over the last ten, fifteen, twenty years lose

536
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 6: that career really because because of that, I think it's

537
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 6: been going down. I think the average creator spends about

538
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 6: forty six percent of their time actually creating. But that's

539
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 6: why they got into this business. The good news is,

540
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 6: I think that's been on the gradualty decline. Algorithms get

541
00:28:56,240 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 6: more advance. That increases the need for you to play

542
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 6: into the algorithm and make sure you adapt your content.

543
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:07,680
Speaker 6: You're continue improving. But I think what we're seeing now

544
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:10,800
Speaker 6: is especially with AI and generality of AI, that's going

545
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:12,320
Speaker 6: to start to change, Like creators are going to be

546
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:14,040
Speaker 6: able to get back to what they love. I mean,

547
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 6: my hope is that like if we look at like

548
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 6: this utopic future, you know, maybe there's some sort of

549
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 6: universal based income and now you know, the creator economy

550
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 6: is booming because there are so many more creators.

551
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:25,400
Speaker 2: But they can focus on creating.

552
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 6: They have to do all of the busy work, all

553
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 6: of the administration, all of the stuff that requires there.

554
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 6: So I think it's definitely where at the bottom of

555
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 6: where it is right now. But I think we're going

556
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:36,400
Speaker 6: to start saying anything I would.

557
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 5: Say it is. It is an issue, though, like there is.

558
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:40,480
Speaker 4: I think from the way I view it is from

559
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 4: a platform perspective and from a brand perspective, we do

560
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 4: have to get better about supporting creators. Whether it's accounting practices,

561
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,320
Speaker 4: whether it's developing better creative I mean, we need to

562
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:54,320
Speaker 4: hold those things to high regard. And I think that's

563
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 4: what we're doing as an agency. We make our accounting

564
00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 4: almost a seamless process for creators. We meet them in

565
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 4: the middle where they're at what payment platforms they're receiving

566
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 4: if they're independent management companies, making sure.

567
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 5: They get paid out quickly.

568
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:10,240
Speaker 4: But in addition to that, it's also developing creative around that.

569
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:13,720
Speaker 4: I started this business with my childhood best friend, Moses,

570
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:17,120
Speaker 4: who's sitting over there and Gabby, and Moses is a

571
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:20,360
Speaker 4: creator first, and so he was the one who showed

572
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 4: me a lot of the ways in which creators do struggle.

573
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 4: And I had to stay close to that problem for

574
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 4: a long time. So I think it's building business practice

575
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:32,720
Speaker 4: that supports creators quickly, efficiently, and we need to do

576
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:34,960
Speaker 4: a better job modernizing it. So I don't think there

577
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 4: is no The problem's not finished and for a long time,

578
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:39,760
Speaker 4: and I think we'll always be tweaking that.

579
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:41,600
Speaker 2: All right, We're almost at a time, But I wanted

580
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:44,479
Speaker 2: to ask the van a one more question. What are

581
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 2: the metrics that you use to quantify the creator economy?

582
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:54,480
Speaker 2: And we talked a little bit about number of followers.

583
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 2: That's a signal, right, but it's not the full picture

584
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:02,000
Speaker 2: of what it's somebody brings to the table. What are

585
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 2: the metrics that matter that really are the things that

586
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 2: you focus on here?

587
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:14,719
Speaker 3: I would probably say engagement, How many shares you get, reposts,

588
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:19,600
Speaker 3: now comments and likes. We live in an attention economy,

589
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 3: and now it's almost like attention almost isn't even enough.

590
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 3: It's like you need you need to have that emotional

591
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:28,840
Speaker 3: connection with your fans, and I think once you have that,

592
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 3: it's going to completely translate across all of your engagements.

593
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:36,959
Speaker 2: And so that consideration goes into the content creation at

594
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:39,800
Speaker 2: the front end of it. Right, Yeah, absolutely, you want

595
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:42,240
Speaker 2: to make sure you hit all of those buttons.

596
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:45,840
Speaker 7: Anybody else, I would say since day one, even when

597
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 7: followers were important, I was always looking like you said, engagement, right,

598
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 7: but specifically sends or shares, because the best thing that

599
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:57,040
Speaker 7: I ever hear when I meet people who are like,

600
00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,040
Speaker 7: oh I love betcha, is like and they'll show me

601
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 7: their DM like I'm constantly sending your dms between me

602
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 7: and my friends. And that's why I'm saying it's about connection.

603
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 7: I think that's when you know you have something when

604
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:11,400
Speaker 7: it not only sparks like yeah you like it, okay, next,

605
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 7: but then it's like I thought of you, and I'm

606
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:15,000
Speaker 7: going to send it to you, and now we're going

607
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 7: to start a conversation and maybe reconnect, maybe this is

608
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:21,080
Speaker 7: an old friend from the past or something like that.

609
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 7: I think that is the most important thing. Like Handa said,

610
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:27,400
Speaker 7: it's about emotional connection. That absolutely should drive everything that

611
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:27,840
Speaker 7: you make.

612
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 6: Frustrated, anything to do with loyalty, anything you can measure

613
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:33,440
Speaker 6: that content's become a commodity. I mean, I think we

614
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:35,760
Speaker 6: can already say that content has become a commodity. The

615
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:39,959
Speaker 6: quality of it overseas varies massively, but creating contents part

616
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:42,760
Speaker 6: of it. Building an audience is pretty super hard, and

617
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 6: so anything where you can measure it they actually have loyalty,

618
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:48,160
Speaker 6: whether that's a small amount of users or a large amount,

619
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:50,040
Speaker 6: I think that's the thing that really truly matters.

620
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:53,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, originally, just actually quickly, what is the equation that

621
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:56,600
Speaker 2: used to evaluate the creators you want to work with?

622
00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 8: I would be great if we just had a formula

623
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:01,360
Speaker 8: that's split out the right answer, so to us followers,

624
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:04,800
Speaker 8: like a very top level metric that decisions aren't made on.

625
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:08,360
Speaker 8: But it's sort of like the first level of filtering scale.

626
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:11,520
Speaker 8: Then we're, like other people said, we're looking at engagement.

627
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 8: The other thing we're really looking at when it comes

628
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 8: to creating exclusive content where we want to make sure,

629
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 8: there's like a really loyal audience. Are other signals like

630
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:23,440
Speaker 8: have they sold content? Do they have a Patreon or

631
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:27,360
Speaker 8: an svod service? Do they have live events? Like do

632
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:29,960
Speaker 8: their fans open their wallet and even buy hats and

633
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:32,160
Speaker 8: T shirts? And that's more of a signal that a

634
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:36,320
Speaker 8: creator has this really deep engagement versus more of a

635
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:39,680
Speaker 8: surface level engagement that might be more reliant on an algorithm.

636
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:43,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, a real community. Okay, all right, well we'll have

637
00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:45,440
Speaker 2: to leave it there. Thank you everybody, great discussion, Thanks

638
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 2: a lot, Thanks.

639
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.

640
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 10: Be sure to leave us a review with the podcast

641
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:51,160
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642
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:52,840
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643
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:55,240
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644
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:59,240
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645
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:02,320
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