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Speaker 1: Gosh, what's upby Budy Angela.

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Speaker 2: Ye, I'm here with my guy main Ou, and of

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Speaker 2: course New York Times best selling author Shaka Sangar is

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Speaker 2: here with us. You have a new book, How to

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Speaker 2: Be Free. So congratulations on that, Thank you.

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Speaker 3: Thank you. I'm super excited. Three and ten years is crazy.

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Speaker 1: That is amazing.

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Speaker 2: By the way, on your list of goals of things

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Speaker 2: that you wanted to accomplish, you have definitely been checking

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Speaker 2: those things off the list.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's just one of the things.

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Speaker 3: One of my core practices is like writing down what

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Speaker 3: I want to manifest in my life and then executing

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Speaker 3: against what I write down.

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Speaker 2: All right, so this book is a proven guide to

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Speaker 2: escaping life's hidden prisons. And I saw, first of all,

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Speaker 2: I want to say this, you did Joe Rogan's podcast.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I wanted how.

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Speaker 1: Was that for you?

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Speaker 3: It was actually great. It was Joe is really curious

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Speaker 3: and he creates space for like real storytelling, the real conversations,

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Speaker 3: And it was like one of the most relaxed experience

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Speaker 3: as I had. I thought going in in to be

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Speaker 3: a little more intense, but literally he was like super

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Speaker 3: chill and we vibed for like three hours, you know.

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Speaker 3: So that was amazing.

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Speaker 1: Because I remember you were doing it.

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Speaker 2: So I searched like to see and I saw that

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Speaker 2: there were some people that.

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Speaker 1: Of course, there was some backlash because I think.

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Speaker 2: About different audiences, right, hearing your story for the first time,

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Speaker 2: because I feel like we know from when Oprah had

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Speaker 2: you on, We've heard from writing My Wrongs, the book

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Speaker 2: that you did a few years ago where you tell

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Speaker 2: your story, and I feel like, you know, Joe Rogan's

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Speaker 2: fans may not have all been privy to hearing that

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Speaker 2: and knowing about your experience and being familiar. I saw

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Speaker 2: some people saying it was amazing, But then there's always

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Speaker 2: this type of judgment that can come to Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I mean, you know the people in the comment section,

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Speaker 3: you know, it's kind of like I think I wrote

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Speaker 3: this new book for them because they're trapped in their

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Speaker 3: own hidden prisons of being haters and judgmental judgment. Right,

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Speaker 3: So the comments section, I was just just told my

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Speaker 3: wife and my sons they have to comment sec that

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Speaker 3: all the time. While but you know, the way do

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Speaker 3: I look at it is like anytime that people are

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Speaker 3: coming at me, I always think about what is their

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Speaker 3: real hurt, like, what's behind it?

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Speaker 4: Why would they be coming at somebody like you.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I think I think a lot of them.

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Speaker 3: People get stuck in my old story. Right. So I

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Speaker 3: went to prison for nineteen years, seven years of solitary confinement,

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Speaker 3: and over the last fifteen years, I've had an incredible

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Speaker 3: amount of success. And so people don't think that when

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Speaker 3: you've done made a poor decision, that you're actually deserving

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Speaker 3: of any type of success, right, And so I don't

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Speaker 3: mean to.

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Speaker 4: Cut you off. So I'm feeling this, right, So I

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Speaker 4: always say, because I did.

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Speaker 5: Prison time myself, I did ten years, four year solitary confinement,

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Speaker 5: I feel like the way you start doesn't determine how

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Speaker 5: you finished.

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Speaker 3: I want to talk that talk, right, Yeah, So this

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Speaker 3: is this.

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Speaker 4: The same thing we were talking about.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely absolutely, But I think people want us to be

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Speaker 3: stuck there because they're really stuck in their own kind

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Speaker 3: of hitting press through that I.

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Speaker 4: Go through that.

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Speaker 5: I go through that all the time with people with

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Speaker 5: guys caught up in things that I may have done

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Speaker 5: and things that I may have been.

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Speaker 4: Involved in years ago. When they caught up, they're so

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Speaker 4: caught up in it that they think that that's me.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I mean you know, when you

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Speaker 3: when you think about people, especially people that don't know you, right,

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Speaker 3: and like, you know, we get we have an opportunity.

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Speaker 3: Either we give people agency and access to our lives

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Speaker 3: or we deny them entry. And so when I know

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Speaker 3: that people are kind of stuck in that old story,

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Speaker 3: it's really more reflection of them than it is me,

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Speaker 3: because I've moved on with my life, you know what

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Speaker 3: I'm saying. And like when I left, when I left

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Speaker 3: physical prison, it was like I was already free, like mentally,

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Speaker 3: you know what I mean. And so when I see

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Speaker 3: those kind of moments where people are trapped, I'm like,

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Speaker 3: that's their own narrative. That's why I say this book

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Speaker 3: really yeah, And that's why I say this book is

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Speaker 3: really for people like that. It's like it gives them

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Speaker 3: an opportunity to really look into their lives and say, Okay, well,

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Speaker 3: what's what's holding me back to where I want to

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Speaker 3: hold another human being I don't even know back, you

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Speaker 3: know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 4: Find fault, yeah in them?

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Speaker 5: And then I always find that the people that do

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Speaker 5: that the most are not in like the worst situations.

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Speaker 1: Well that's their own directed.

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Speaker 2: I do find that when people like come at you

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Speaker 2: like that, it's because a lot of times that's like

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Speaker 2: a self reflection on things about themselves that they're unhappy with.

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Speaker 2: Or sometimes I think when people are in that space,

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Speaker 2: they don't want anyone else to be thriving, you know,

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Speaker 2: or see that in other people. I when I was

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Speaker 2: reading this book and then I watched the Young Thug

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Speaker 2: interview that he did with Big Bank, right, this is

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Speaker 2: all happening like around the same time, because I got

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Speaker 2: my copy of the book and then that interview dropped,

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Speaker 2: and I was thinking about Young Thug talking about his

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Speaker 2: early life and what shaped him into who he is today,

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Speaker 2: and like a lot of experiences that he had to have,

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Speaker 2: you know, as far as people close to him getting killed,

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Speaker 2: and you talk about your brother's murder in this book,

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Speaker 2: you know as well, and the emotions that you went

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Speaker 2: through after that, And I was just thinking there was

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Speaker 2: a lot of things we didn't know about him, and

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Speaker 2: maybe things that he has not yet even figured out

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Speaker 2: how he could heal from those things too. And I

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Speaker 2: saw that in a lot of times, we talk to

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Speaker 2: people and we don't know their stories, like what got

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Speaker 2: them to where they are right now to make these

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Speaker 2: types of decisions.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's one of the reasons that I continue to

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Speaker 3: write and concede to share stories because I think that

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Speaker 3: part is important. You know, we look at these artists

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Speaker 3: and we formulate an opinion based on their art, not

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Speaker 3: based on their real lives, and they're partially responsible for

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Speaker 3: that as well, because what you communicate to the world

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Speaker 3: can oftentimes dictate how people perceive you or grow to

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Speaker 3: to know who you are. And especially you know, you

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Speaker 3: think about young Thug and all the things that's going

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Speaker 3: on with these different allegations, the leaks from the phone

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Speaker 3: and what I you know, what I talk to young

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Speaker 3: people would always say is just like you know, you

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Speaker 3: have to own your own narrative, otherwise the world will

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Speaker 3: try to tell you who you are. And what I've

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Speaker 3: realized is that the reasons so many don't own their

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Speaker 3: own narrative because they don't even recognize the way that

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Speaker 3: they hitting prisons show up in their lives like trauma.

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Speaker 3: So when I was writing about my brother, my brother

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Speaker 3: was murdered in twenty twenty one, I come home. You know,

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Speaker 3: I'm the one of the resourceful ones in the family,

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Speaker 3: I'm coming being responsible son make this path as easy

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Speaker 3: as possible for my step mom, for my dad. And

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Speaker 3: I was sitting there and I was watching my mother

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Speaker 3: go through this grieving process, and I started feeling this

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Speaker 3: overwhelming sense of guilt, and so I couldn't even fully

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Speaker 3: grieve for my brother because what I realized in that moment,

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Speaker 3: I made somebody else's mother feel like that. And so

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Speaker 3: that was my hit in prison was that I couldn't

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Speaker 3: really grievee And what I ended up doing is I

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Speaker 3: ended up writing a letter to the person responsible for

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Speaker 3: murdering my brother. And through that process of just exercising

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Speaker 3: that emotion, I started to kind of free myself up

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Speaker 3: and develop this deep sense of gratitude for the experience

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Speaker 3: I had with my brother. So that's how I kind

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Speaker 3: of navigated and that was the unlock for me, was

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Speaker 3: gratitude is how I navigated grief.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, you know, people talk about frek guilt and

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Speaker 2: it's a lot because you wrote that letter, right, and

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Speaker 2: sometimes people are like, how could you forgive somebody who

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Speaker 2: did something like that? But you I listened to you

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Speaker 2: on Oprah and you talked about the forgiveness that you

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Speaker 2: received and a lot of times we want forgiveness from

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Speaker 2: people and reappreciate that, but then when it's time for

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Speaker 2: us to turn around and forgive somebody, that's a hard

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Speaker 2: thing to.

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Speaker 3: Do, absolutely, And I think one of the things is

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Speaker 3: when you say that you believe something, the universe is

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Speaker 3: definitely going to test that belief. And in the book,

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Speaker 3: one of the things that I talk about is I

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Speaker 3: received a letter from the guy who shot me. You know,

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Speaker 3: I got shot when I was seventeen years old. This

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Speaker 3: is three decades later. I get this letter, and my

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Speaker 3: initial reaction wasn't the thoughtful person that believes in redemption,

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Speaker 3: Like I was triggered back to that moment of like, oh,

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Speaker 3: this is the guy. And one of the things that

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Speaker 3: I didn't realize was that the thing that had me

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Speaker 3: really angry was that I had never saw this guy's face.

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Speaker 3: Like our exchange was a quick little word exchange, and

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Speaker 3: you know, he shot shot multiple times, hit me three times.

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Speaker 3: So for all these years, I subconsciously had been carrying

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Speaker 3: this kind of mystery person around, like I kind of

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Speaker 3: knew the name, I knew some affiliations, but I didn't

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Speaker 3: I never saw his face. And so when I got

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Speaker 3: the letter. He's in prison. Now he's been he's actually

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Speaker 3: been in prison. He was in prison like after he

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Speaker 3: shot me, he killed somebody, and so he ended up

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Speaker 3: in prison like right before I ended up in prison.

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Speaker 3: But we never was at the same prison. So when

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Speaker 3: I got the letter, I'm like, I'm really respecting in prison.

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Speaker 3: It don't take much for me to just be like,

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna put one thousand dollars on your book. Take

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Speaker 3: care of dude, right. And what I realized in that

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Speaker 3: moment was like, this is the universe saying what do

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Speaker 3: you really believe about second chances? What do you really

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Speaker 3: believe about forgiveness? And so I started actually to write

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Speaker 3: him a letter back. And then I decided to actually

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Speaker 3: write my mother, who I was in the process of

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Speaker 3: healing our relationship with, and I realized I didn't owe

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Speaker 3: him a letter. I accepted the letter of forgiveness, I

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Speaker 3: mean apology. I accept that. And for me, it's really

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Speaker 3: like forgiveness was for me. It wasn't really about him, right,

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Speaker 3: you know what I mean? And then so with my

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Speaker 3: mom that became more important. It was like, you know,

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Speaker 3: how am I healing this relationship with the woman who

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Speaker 3: gave birth to me and how do we grow together?

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Speaker 3: And what I learned from that is that forgiveness is

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Speaker 3: very complex, because I thought I had forgave my mother,

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Speaker 3: you know, and then what I realized I forgave her

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Speaker 3: with conditions. I forgive you, but I need you to

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Speaker 3: act this way.

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Speaker 2: Right, you want her to change what she had done

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Speaker 2: that was hurtful to you. But when you forget somebody,

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Speaker 2: that doesn't mean they're going to be a different person

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Speaker 2: or the person that you want them to be.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that I mean, they could be worse, they can

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Speaker 3: be better. I mean my mom is not the same,

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Speaker 3: you know, right what it's saying, right, But it's really

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Speaker 3: about like how do we shape it within ourselves? Right?

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Speaker 3: And that's the hidden part of it because sometimes we

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Speaker 3: think that, oh, I forgave you, but then you do

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Speaker 3: one thing that I dislike, and now I take fifteen

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Speaker 3: steps back to one question.

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Speaker 4: The god that wrote you the letter that shot you,

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Speaker 4: he was apologetic.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, because what happened is he came across my book.

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Speaker 3: Another brother was reading one of my books in there,

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Speaker 3: and he started reading the book and he was like, oh,

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Speaker 3: I exactly know this story. I'm the guy who poured

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Speaker 3: that trigger. I never knew. I wouldn't even have wrote

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Speaker 3: his name even if I did, But I never knew

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Speaker 3: the guy. I just talked about how that shaped how

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Speaker 3: I thought about life. And so after I got shot,

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Speaker 3: I just started carrying a gun every day. And then,

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Speaker 3: you know, fourteen months later I shot somebody, right, And

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Speaker 3: so he got the book and he read it and he

239
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Speaker 3: was like, oh, I want to apologize to this guy,

240
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Speaker 3: you know, And I thought that was I thought it

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Speaker 3: was courateous of him, not only to be in a

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Speaker 3: state of maturity to think about how do I apologize

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Speaker 3: to somebody else, but like his safety could have potentially

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Speaker 3: been compromising for him to do that. I was like,

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Speaker 3: you know, I gotta respect that if nothing else.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not doing anything for him. Yeah, to have

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Speaker 1: done that.

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Speaker 2: And your mom for seventeen years, she didn't come and

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Speaker 2: see you, Yeah, while you were locked up.

250
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Speaker 1: What was her reason for that?

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Speaker 2: And I hear a lot of times people feel like

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Speaker 2: when they go to prison that they're forgotten about. People

253
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Speaker 2: are moving on with their lives, and then when you

254
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Speaker 2: come home sometimes people feel like, well, I'm home now.

255
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Speaker 2: This person didn't look out for me that I don't

256
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Speaker 2: feel no responsibility to all the people who forgot about

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Speaker 2: me while I.

258
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Speaker 1: Was locked up.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I used to feel like that, you

260
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Speaker 3: know that the early part of my incarceration, I was

261
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Speaker 3: very angry at my family. I was very disappointed. I

262
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Speaker 3: felt abandoned by my friends. You know, It's one of

263
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Speaker 3: the things I tell the young guys when they're out

264
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Speaker 3: on the streets, like it's all good until the handcuffs

265
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Speaker 3: go on, and I can guarantee you within sixty eight

266
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Speaker 3: almost everybody's gone, right, and you may be lucky to

267
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Speaker 3: have a grandma or on or you know, pops like

268
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Speaker 3: my dad kind of rolled out the whole nineteen years.

269
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Speaker 1: Man had a lot of women.

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Speaker 4: You're lucky, Yeah about anybody. Fortunately, I was very fortunate.

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Speaker 3: But that's different from like the guys you grew up

272
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Speaker 3: on the back right, think of your family. Yeah, I

273
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Speaker 3: had people step in that you wouldn't even thought they

274
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Speaker 3: would have been the ones. But the people who you

275
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Speaker 3: think will be there, they're the first ones to slide off,

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Speaker 3: you know. And so with my mom when she finally

277
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Speaker 3: did come to see me, some of them was just

278
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Speaker 3: like very logistical. I was a lot of times I

279
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Speaker 3: was locked far away you know, Yeah, She's like, I

280
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Speaker 3: don't drive on the highway by myself, and you know,

281
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Speaker 3: so it was all those things. But for me, I

282
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Speaker 3: was like, I don't I didn't want to come home.

283
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Speaker 3: Like I talk about in the book, is that I was.

284
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Speaker 3: I was incarcerated before I ever went to prison, because mentally,

285
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Speaker 3: I have brought into this idea that my life can

286
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Speaker 3: only have two outcomes. You're going to be dead in

287
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Speaker 3: jail before your twenty ones, right, And so I lived

288
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Speaker 3: based on that narrative. But I was free way before

289
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Speaker 3: I got I was free before I even knew if

290
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Speaker 3: I was ever getting out of prison, because I had

291
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Speaker 3: unlocked something in my mind that was like, no matter

292
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Speaker 3: what the circumstances are, here's the kind of man I'm

293
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Speaker 3: gonna be. Here's the kind of person that I'm gonna

294
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Speaker 3: be even within this environment, whether I get out or not.

295
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Speaker 3: And so part of that was I had to free

296
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Speaker 3: myself from this anger, you know, Like you know, people

297
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Speaker 3: see my story Noine, it's like, oh, this must have

298
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Speaker 3: been like a model prisoner. I'm like, I was wilding

299
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Speaker 3: it at the first eight years. I'm like thirty six

300
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Speaker 3: missconducts new case. Seven years in solitary confinement. But when

301
00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:17,080
Speaker 3: I got to that place where I was like, you know,

302
00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:20,760
Speaker 3: I want to produce different outcomes anger, giving up that

303
00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:23,760
Speaker 3: anger was one of them. And in order to give

304
00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:25,640
Speaker 3: that up, I had to look at who am I

305
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Speaker 3: all angry at? You know?

306
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Speaker 4: How did you do that?

307
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Speaker 5: Because I say things like not giving the fuck is freedom?

308
00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:38,079
Speaker 5: Meaning caring less of what people think? Are you not

309
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Speaker 5: worrying about the opinions of others?

310
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Speaker 4: That's freedom?

311
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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 5: Living your ultimate you know who you are, no matter

313
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Speaker 5: what that looks like, no matter what that looks like

314
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Speaker 5: to other people, that's freedom.

315
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Speaker 4: So how did you get away from the anger?

316
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Speaker 3: Yeah? For me, it was like recognizing. So I had

317
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Speaker 3: this idea that I was like, you know, the kid

318
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Speaker 3: who wasn't angry, right, because all my friends' minds be like, oh,

319
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Speaker 3: you're so mannable, you're so thoughtful, but they didn't never

320
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Speaker 3: saw the other side, you know what I'm saying. And

321
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Speaker 3: so I had kind of bought into the idea that

322
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Speaker 3: I only get active when somebody has done something offensive, right,

323
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Speaker 3: But in reality I realized that I had heard a

324
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Speaker 3: lot of people you know what I mean, and that

325
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Speaker 3: I was really this angry kid and what happened was

326
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Speaker 3: I started journaling, and it's what I call active journaling, right,

327
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Speaker 3: And I really talk about it in the book because

328
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Speaker 3: sometimes people are like, oh, you just write a thing down.

329
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Speaker 3: It's like, no, you write it down so you could

330
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Speaker 3: be clear about it. But then what are the action

331
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Speaker 3: steps you're going to take to heal from it? And

332
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Speaker 3: for me, I would write when I was in solitary,

333
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Speaker 3: whenever I would like find myself like really really angry,

334
00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:47,560
Speaker 3: like my neighbor blew the power out one time. I'm

335
00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:49,640
Speaker 3: literally writing my journal like, yo, when I get out,

336
00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:52,400
Speaker 3: I'm a shank doog blah blah, you know what I mean.

337
00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:54,440
Speaker 3: But then I would go back and read it because

338
00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:56,560
Speaker 3: that was the active part, Like don't just write it,

339
00:14:56,600 --> 00:14:58,360
Speaker 3: but go back and read it when you're not angry.

340
00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:01,080
Speaker 3: And I was reading one day and I was like,

341
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Speaker 3: this sounds like a mad man. This is not how

342
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Speaker 3: I see myself, but this is really who I've become, right,

343
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Speaker 3: And so I knew like if I wanted to be

344
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Speaker 3: a different person, I had to heal that person, and

345
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Speaker 3: I had to get down to the roots of like,

346
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Speaker 3: you know who I thought I was, but to who

347
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Speaker 3: I actually was, and that was a game change, you

348
00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:21,600
Speaker 3: know what I mean, And so I started. I still

349
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Speaker 3: have all my journals from prison. I still really helps you. Yeah,

350
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Speaker 3: going back and reading absolutely like.

351
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Speaker 2: You know, in this book you will also talk about

352
00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:41,080
Speaker 2: another incident that really shaped you as a kid. The

353
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Speaker 2: neighbor of c. M. Yeah, and I know certain names.

354
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Speaker 2: You know you're not going to give absolutely, Yeah, but

355
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Speaker 2: this was a neighbor. You guys would go over there,

356
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Speaker 2: all the kids watched the Kung fu flicks, you know,

357
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Speaker 2: have a good time. This particular time, you guys were

358
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Speaker 2: They said, some of the kids can come and stay

359
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Speaker 2: the night, and he attempted to molest you.

360
00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:03,920
Speaker 1: And that was something that you did not tell your parents.

361
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Speaker 2: And it's you know, I think that that is a

362
00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:10,320
Speaker 2: hard thing because you feel like, did I do something wrong?

363
00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:16,400
Speaker 2: And that happens right, And you also feel like I've

364
00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:19,400
Speaker 2: heard children say this too. They don't want to endanger

365
00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:23,000
Speaker 2: their parents. Also, by then the parents go over there,

366
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Speaker 2: they get into a fight.

367
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Speaker 1: Who knows what can happen.

368
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Speaker 2: I've heard people say that things have happened and that's

369
00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:31,640
Speaker 2: why they didn't tell their parents. But then you went

370
00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:35,480
Speaker 2: on to attempt to break into his home and that

371
00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:38,760
Speaker 2: was kind of your revenge, but nobody knew what had

372
00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:41,840
Speaker 2: happened to you, and it took you a long time

373
00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:46,080
Speaker 2: to even be able to reveal that. But we don't

374
00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:49,960
Speaker 2: know sometimes, like what children are dealing with and going through.

375
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Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely, It's one of the reasons that I'm super

376
00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:57,240
Speaker 3: sensitive when it comes to mentoring young people. And you know,

377
00:16:57,280 --> 00:17:00,840
Speaker 3: you see these kids who have been labeled as acting out,

378
00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:04,040
Speaker 3: and because of my own experiences, I know that none

379
00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:05,960
Speaker 3: of these things are without cause. And so in the

380
00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:08,840
Speaker 3: case of Cem, you know, this was a trusted family friend,

381
00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:11,840
Speaker 3: and you know, this guy attempted to molest me, and

382
00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:15,600
Speaker 3: you know, as a result of that, I literally broke

383
00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:17,080
Speaker 3: into his house and like in my mind, I'm like,

384
00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:19,520
Speaker 3: we're gonna steal all this stuff, We're gonna destroy it.

385
00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:22,480
Speaker 3: And I ended up getting caught. And when I got caught,

386
00:17:22,600 --> 00:17:24,320
Speaker 3: you know, my parents was like, we didn't raise you

387
00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:25,679
Speaker 3: like this, and why would you do this? And so

388
00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:28,280
Speaker 3: they were really upset. But the thing is they had

389
00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:30,920
Speaker 3: never created space for us to tell the full truth.

390
00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:34,440
Speaker 3: And so as a kid, you have something that violation

391
00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:37,600
Speaker 3: of trust and you internalize that, and it's one of

392
00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:39,840
Speaker 3: the things like when I talk about why I wrote

393
00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:43,119
Speaker 3: this book. I've met so many people who have internalized

394
00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:47,400
Speaker 3: the behaviors of others, whether it's childhood trauma, whether it's assault,

395
00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:50,400
Speaker 3: whether it's violence, you take on that identity. That's where

396
00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:54,240
Speaker 3: negative self taught comes from. And so when my parents,

397
00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:58,240
Speaker 3: like they punished me for the behavior, I internalized that

398
00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:00,600
Speaker 3: even more of like, well, maybe I did something wrong,

399
00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:03,639
Speaker 3: but maybe it was my fault. And so for years

400
00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:06,560
Speaker 3: I was angry with them, and you know, and there

401
00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:08,919
Speaker 3: was a shame attached to that. Right I had got

402
00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:13,120
Speaker 3: arrested in front of our whole block, you know, yeah,

403
00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:15,639
Speaker 3: Like they literally was like, what is you doing? Yeah,

404
00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:19,480
Speaker 3: so now you got that embarrassment, and it's one of

405
00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:21,560
Speaker 3: the things that you know, for me, when I got

406
00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:23,520
Speaker 3: to a space where I talked to my parents, this

407
00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:26,199
Speaker 3: was like, I mean, this wasn't that long. It's like

408
00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:28,240
Speaker 3: three years ago. I was like fifty years old when

409
00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:29,560
Speaker 3: I called my dad and I was like, hey, I

410
00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:32,000
Speaker 3: just want to talk to you about something that I

411
00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:36,000
Speaker 3: realized I was still carrying this anger about that. They

412
00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:39,200
Speaker 3: never understood my wife and they never even questioned it.

413
00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:41,320
Speaker 3: And I'm like, if you know your kid to be good,

414
00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:45,000
Speaker 3: otherwise and they do something that's so outside of who

415
00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:47,119
Speaker 3: you know them to be, Like, you got to be

416
00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:49,400
Speaker 3: patient and interrogate that, you know what I mean, because

417
00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:52,280
Speaker 3: otherwise it kind of imprisons them and it's shame. And

418
00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:54,199
Speaker 3: that's what happened to me. But when I talked to

419
00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:58,440
Speaker 3: my parents, it was amazing, you know, that they were

420
00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:02,080
Speaker 3: both present and willing to go on that journey, and

421
00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:03,879
Speaker 3: especially like with my dad, like that has to be

422
00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:06,679
Speaker 3: hard as a father's like you're trusting your child in

423
00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:09,280
Speaker 3: the care of another man who you respect, right, and

424
00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:12,000
Speaker 3: then this guy attempts to take advantage of your child.

425
00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:14,639
Speaker 2: You know, I just thank god that you were able

426
00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:16,520
Speaker 2: to get out of that situation.

427
00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:19,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I attribute that to like my siblings,

428
00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:23,120
Speaker 3: like being being having older siblings, you kind of become

429
00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:25,520
Speaker 3: a little bit more savvy about life than if you're

430
00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:27,119
Speaker 3: trying to figure it out on your own, you know.

431
00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:30,040
Speaker 3: And so anytime I felt like I was in some

432
00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:32,359
Speaker 3: type of danger, I had kind of examples from my

433
00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:35,040
Speaker 3: siblings and how to move, yeah, how to move Yeah.

434
00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:37,840
Speaker 3: But I think about all the kids who probably didn't.

435
00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:39,840
Speaker 4: That didn't a lot. It's a lot, a lot, it's

436
00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:41,000
Speaker 4: a lot. It's a lot.

437
00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:43,119
Speaker 5: I'm working on a book, and I've been working on

438
00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:44,600
Speaker 5: this book for a while.

439
00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:45,399
Speaker 4: It's almost ready.

440
00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:49,560
Speaker 5: I've been talking about it for a while now, and

441
00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:52,440
Speaker 5: it kind of reminds me of what you what you

442
00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:54,919
Speaker 5: got going on and what you're doing. The name of

443
00:19:54,920 --> 00:20:00,000
Speaker 5: my book is called All the Freedom Right, and it's

444
00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:03,280
Speaker 5: to me, it's it's like my philosophy in my in

445
00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:06,879
Speaker 5: my in my uh my game, and how I feel

446
00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:09,359
Speaker 5: about what it takes to to stay out of prison.

447
00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:12,680
Speaker 5: So it's like for people that it's either just got

448
00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:15,080
Speaker 5: out of jail or it's about to write. So you know,

449
00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:17,480
Speaker 5: they got all those pre release programs and stuff like that.

450
00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:20,600
Speaker 5: You know, here's a book, not big, but just something

451
00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:22,359
Speaker 5: that could you know, you read a chapter day or

452
00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:24,719
Speaker 5: something like that, like Delhi Meditations or something like that,

453
00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:26,800
Speaker 5: and just to help give you some game on how

454
00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:31,280
Speaker 5: to stay you know, mentally, you know, prepared for all

455
00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:33,280
Speaker 5: of the things that you gotta deal with. You know,

456
00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:39,000
Speaker 5: I like what you did you're doing because that's something

457
00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:42,080
Speaker 5: that I don't think I included that in the book, right,

458
00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:44,520
Speaker 5: about the mental prisons, about some of the things that

459
00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:45,880
Speaker 5: kind of hold us back.

460
00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:47,200
Speaker 4: Because you can.

461
00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:52,119
Speaker 5: Be free physically but yet still trapped in this in

462
00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:54,879
Speaker 5: this this, this this world where you just locked in.

463
00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:57,480
Speaker 3: Absolutely, Yeah, that's That's one of the things. When I

464
00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:00,680
Speaker 3: wrote this book, I was super intentional about making it

465
00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:04,879
Speaker 3: accessible to people who have never been incarcerated. And actually

466
00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:07,560
Speaker 3: that's more of my audience because I've worked in tech,

467
00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:10,000
Speaker 3: you know, I've been an investor in tech, I've worked

468
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:12,639
Speaker 3: in entertainment, I produced, I've done all types of stuff.

469
00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:15,399
Speaker 3: And I've seen people out here who have never stepped

470
00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:18,399
Speaker 3: foot in the jail that are way more incarcerated, Like

471
00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:23,200
Speaker 3: I mean, imposter syndrome, doubt. What is that? Yeah, that's

472
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:24,919
Speaker 3: when you're showing up in the space and you're not

473
00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:26,520
Speaker 3: being your authentic self.

474
00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:28,680
Speaker 1: And you feel like you don't belong there.

475
00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:32,480
Speaker 5: And how about the guy that continuously wants to be

476
00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:33,760
Speaker 5: something that you know he's not.

477
00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:41,200
Speaker 3: That is it is aspect.

478
00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:50,800
Speaker 2: Is when you really do deserve to be somewhere and

479
00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:53,320
Speaker 2: you feel like you don't. Absolutely, you know, you feel

480
00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:55,760
Speaker 2: like even though you can have all of the accolades

481
00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:58,320
Speaker 2: and the knowledge, and you go in a room and

482
00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:01,680
Speaker 2: you know, it's interesting to me because even your friendship

483
00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:04,640
Speaker 2: with and you talk about this, and Ben Harwitz called

484
00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:06,720
Speaker 2: in when you were on with Oprah.

485
00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:07,160
Speaker 3: That's my guy.

486
00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:10,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, and even of how you guys met, but it

487
00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:14,919
Speaker 2: was you know, I even was like, man, when Oprah

488
00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:16,720
Speaker 2: introduced you and then you guys were going to have

489
00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:18,719
Speaker 2: dinner and they were like, oh, this guy did this,

490
00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:20,000
Speaker 2: let's not have him at the house.

491
00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:20,639
Speaker 3: Yeah.

492
00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:24,399
Speaker 1: I felt like, I don't know, it bothered me, you

493
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:25,000
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying.

494
00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:27,240
Speaker 2: I know that'shit brother, and then and that things have

495
00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:29,120
Speaker 2: come around, and it's so interesting to me to see

496
00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:33,000
Speaker 2: how people can have this perception of somebody who they'll

497
00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:35,160
Speaker 2: be like, well, he murdered someone, he went to jail

498
00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:37,119
Speaker 2: to prison for nineteen years.

499
00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:39,480
Speaker 1: I don't know if we should have them.

500
00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:41,840
Speaker 3: I mean, that's not unreasonable.

501
00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:44,440
Speaker 1: Right, I understand that, and it's not unreasonable.

502
00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:47,399
Speaker 3: But from our culture, we're like, oh, that's you know

503
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:50,119
Speaker 3: what I mean, because we have we have proximity to

504
00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:53,440
Speaker 3: it quite often, right, And there's different when you don't

505
00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:55,919
Speaker 3: have proximity to it and you're coming from Because I

506
00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:57,720
Speaker 3: think about this all the time, like when you come

507
00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:01,639
Speaker 3: from a different space and don't have proximity to someone

508
00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:04,360
Speaker 3: like me, I can imagine it's not the easiest thing

509
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:05,600
Speaker 3: to be like come from my home.

510
00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:09,480
Speaker 2: Right, Donald Trunk has done some awful things and been

511
00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:12,320
Speaker 2: convicted of them, and he's the president.

512
00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:14,800
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. And I but I.

513
00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:17,879
Speaker 2: Will say when I said that, I also was just

514
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:22,160
Speaker 2: thinking about it in the context of I thought about

515
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:26,200
Speaker 2: Michael Rubin, right, and how he didn't understand like how

516
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:30,480
Speaker 2: somebody could be falsely imprisoned until Meek Miles situation and

517
00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:34,879
Speaker 2: seeing how probation can really just keep you like locked

518
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:38,240
Speaker 2: in forever psychl Yeah, exactly.

519
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:41,560
Speaker 4: It's coming from such a such a such a.

520
00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:43,280
Speaker 1: Place of privilege, and that's yeah.

521
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:46,320
Speaker 5: Totally oblivious to this type of lifestyle in the world

522
00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:49,720
Speaker 5: for us that we had some body right.

523
00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:55,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.

524
00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:58,320
Speaker 5: When she said when she said, uh, he did nine

525
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:12,639
Speaker 5: years in solitary, I said, he was getting Busyand.

526
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:10,000
Speaker 2: Do you feel like now it's been a lot more

527
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:14,000
Speaker 2: people like because I do feel like this whole movement now,

528
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:17,200
Speaker 2: you know, we see so many different organizations that are

529
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:19,960
Speaker 2: talking about like the prison system, and there's been a

530
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:22,960
Speaker 2: lot more stories of people who have been unfairly targeted.

531
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:27,639
Speaker 2: When you see the disparities between who's you know, getting representation,

532
00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:30,800
Speaker 2: who's getting the longer sentences, who's going to prison, And

533
00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,280
Speaker 2: it's something that has been a lot more awareness about it.

534
00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:35,760
Speaker 2: Do you feel like now since when you first came home,

535
00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:40,200
Speaker 2: it's been a lot more like acceptance and also people

536
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:41,920
Speaker 2: just feeling like, Wow, that's your story.

537
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:43,560
Speaker 1: We need to do something together. I feel like it

538
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:44,520
Speaker 1: used to be like that.

539
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:44,840
Speaker 5: No.

540
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:46,600
Speaker 3: I mean we've done a lot of work, you know,

541
00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:49,600
Speaker 3: like like outside of the work that I've done more recently,

542
00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:53,320
Speaker 3: which has been more focused on business entrepreneurship, early part

543
00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:57,160
Speaker 3: of my career was literally working on changing policies, including

544
00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:00,479
Speaker 3: helping meet meals get out. So I work with fifty

545
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:03,920
Speaker 3: I work with Reform Alliance, Jessica Van those like we

546
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:06,240
Speaker 3: was in the trenches. We were like, we're gonna cut

547
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:09,040
Speaker 3: the prison system and half by fifty percent. And so

548
00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:11,680
Speaker 3: that work, that storytelling that we did, we really brought

549
00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 3: people proximate to like what does transformation look like? And

550
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:17,879
Speaker 3: so you think about Topeka, you think about Wilow, you

551
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:20,840
Speaker 3: think about those of us who've actually put ourselves out

552
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:23,560
Speaker 3: in the most vulnerable way. Right, I think, out of everybody,

553
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:26,359
Speaker 3: I probably had a more serious case. So I'm constantly

554
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:30,560
Speaker 3: getting that, getting that scrutiny. But It's the thing like

555
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 3: even when even when I think about, even though this

556
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:35,160
Speaker 3: is not what this book is about, what I realized

557
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:37,920
Speaker 3: that we had to help people break through their own

558
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 3: interpretation of who they think is in prison, right, you know,

559
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:43,960
Speaker 3: because it's easy to just have those judgments. But then

560
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:46,840
Speaker 3: you started to meet chef Jeff and you realize this guy,

561
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:49,879
Speaker 3: he's an executive chef, but he was also incarcerated and

562
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:52,479
Speaker 3: taught himself how to cook in the kitchen. And so

563
00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:54,720
Speaker 3: being able to share those stories, like that's what really

564
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:57,239
Speaker 3: kind of shifted the narrative. And now you know, but

565
00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:00,399
Speaker 3: there's a there's a downside to that too, because not

566
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:02,119
Speaker 3: everybody who comes out of prison is going to be

567
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:05,040
Speaker 3: Shocker or Wallow or Mano or to peak it right,

568
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:08,480
Speaker 3: because you gotta you have to separate our talent from

569
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:11,080
Speaker 3: our actual background, you know what I mean. Like I'm

570
00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:14,080
Speaker 3: actually really talented while I'm on book three, not because

571
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:15,479
Speaker 3: I was in prison, you know what I mean?

572
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:18,320
Speaker 4: So doesn't get.

573
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, Like like to Peaka's really talented, she just

574
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:24,200
Speaker 3: happened to have been in prison. Wilo is really talented.

575
00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:26,000
Speaker 3: It just happened to be in prison. And so we

576
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:29,159
Speaker 3: have to really separate that part because everybody think the

577
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:30,879
Speaker 3: next person coming out is going to be the next

578
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:32,600
Speaker 3: so and so. And it's like, I've been writing for

579
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:35,679
Speaker 3: twenty five years. You know, I wrote my first journal

580
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:39,440
Speaker 3: twenty five years ago when I was transforming my life.

581
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,399
Speaker 3: So all of this this is like the hard earned wisdom.

582
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:45,840
Speaker 3: This is like, this isn't like recent. This is like, hey,

583
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:49,240
Speaker 3: for twenty five years, I've been on this journey. Here's

584
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,359
Speaker 3: what i learned from prison. Here's what I've learned from entrepreneurship,

585
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 3: Here's what I learned from investing, and here's what I've

586
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:59,119
Speaker 3: learned in corporate And everybody has a hidden prison, but

587
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 3: every prison has a right.

588
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:04,879
Speaker 1: You know, this writing. I think the talent that you

589
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:05,200
Speaker 1: have with that.

590
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:06,720
Speaker 2: Now, there's one part of the book where you talk

591
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:10,600
Speaker 2: about writing a letter to the warden, which I was like,

592
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:12,960
Speaker 2: you would even think to do such a thing, but

593
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:15,800
Speaker 2: you wanted to see if you could get out of solitary.

594
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:19,720
Speaker 2: But you also wanted to say, look, I did everything

595
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:21,080
Speaker 2: I said I was going to do, and those were

596
00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:24,119
Speaker 2: the bad things, you know. But now I'm saying, instead

597
00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:25,879
Speaker 2: of the negative things that I want to do, I

598
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:27,640
Speaker 2: want you to believe that I'm going to be able

599
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 2: to do.

600
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 1: These positive things.

601
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:31,480
Speaker 2: He said, you said, if truth is what matters most

602
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:33,359
Speaker 2: in our dialogue, I encourage you to reflect on what

603
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:36,040
Speaker 2: I'm about to propose should do. On the off chance

604
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:39,040
Speaker 2: allow me to re enter general population. I give you

605
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:41,639
Speaker 2: my word that for the remainder of my incarceration, I

606
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 2: will dedicate myself solely to nurturing my writing talent and

607
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 2: mentoring the.

608
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:46,879
Speaker 1: Young guys on the yard.

609
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 2: Gifts I discovered in this place and wish to share

610
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:50,840
Speaker 2: with prisoners and then the world.

611
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:51,920
Speaker 1: That's amazing.

612
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:55,040
Speaker 3: That were absolutely it was the only kind of war.

613
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:58,359
Speaker 1: It was the only time that because when I was reading,

614
00:27:58,400 --> 00:27:59,360
Speaker 1: I said, they're.

615
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 4: Not letting that word.

616
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:03,240
Speaker 3: But here's the thing. I was reading all this philosophy right,

617
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 3: and I was like, okay, if the truth is what matter,

618
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:09,480
Speaker 3: Like I told you when I came to prison, I'm

619
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:12,119
Speaker 3: never following the rules. Here's the proof of that. I

620
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:15,199
Speaker 3: got thirty five minutes conducts. Only things that matter? Is

621
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:17,000
Speaker 3: am I a man of my word? Clearly I'm a

622
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:19,120
Speaker 3: man of my words. If you believe me in the negative,

623
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:21,680
Speaker 3: can you believe me in a postive? And you should

624
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:22,200
Speaker 3: be able.

625
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:25,520
Speaker 1: To yeah to myself. This philosophical shit really was.

626
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:30,760
Speaker 4: Well, he advocated for me and I had you had

627
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 4: nine in there already.

628
00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:34,119
Speaker 3: Yeah, so at that time I had I had been

629
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:36,800
Speaker 3: in solitary about two and a half and I had

630
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 3: been in prison about ten and a half and then

631
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 3: but it still took some time for me to get out.

632
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 3: But he advocated for me for the next couple of years.

633
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 1: That's amazing.

634
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:46,320
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, And then I got out of I was

635
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 3: a man of my word. I literally focused on writing.

636
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:51,880
Speaker 3: I wrote. I wrote a total of six books before

637
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:54,160
Speaker 3: I got out of prison. I started off writing fiction

638
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:57,280
Speaker 3: and I mentored a young young man on the block.

639
00:28:57,400 --> 00:28:59,080
Speaker 3: Like a lot of those guys, they even look up

640
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:01,360
Speaker 3: to me to this day. And I go back and sat,

641
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 3: I was, I was like, you Records Island yesterday, I

642
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:06,080
Speaker 3: could I kicked the project. Yeah, we kicked the book

643
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:06,760
Speaker 3: to off.

644
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:09,040
Speaker 1: And you're donating books for the prisons.

645
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 3: So we've donated books to thirteen hundred prisons, which comes

646
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:16,360
Speaker 3: around to almost a million people who are incarcerated. And

647
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:18,080
Speaker 3: so they got the book before the rest of the

648
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:21,440
Speaker 3: world because their life is a metaphor. And I wanted

649
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:24,240
Speaker 3: to make sure that people are incarcerated.

650
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:29,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, you better signed the publishing company. But even look,

651
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 2: even when Shaka came home and you know, had the book,

652
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 2: he had to push those books himself on the streets.

653
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:40,400
Speaker 3: Yeah. I was really out the trunk with us. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

654
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 3: I started off hustling books all around Detroit parks, gentlemen clubs,

655
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:48,160
Speaker 3: you name it. I was there and eventually, yeah, yeah,

656
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 3: I used to.

657
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:52,480
Speaker 1: Be there every Saturday starlet party.

658
00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:00,520
Speaker 3: They sim Detroit is a whole back I'm chop to

659
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:05,680
Speaker 3: slangy books and yeah, yeah, but that was the path.

660
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:08,560
Speaker 3: And eventually one of those books made it to Oprah,

661
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:09,760
Speaker 3: and then that was a game changer.

662
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 1: You never know what can happen. Boy, let me tell you.

663
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 4: That's all. You got to do it.

664
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:17,240
Speaker 2: Just like Shaka said, He'll set down the intention and

665
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:18,440
Speaker 2: you just got to finish it.

666
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:20,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, because I wrote, I literally wrote that down, so

667
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 3: all the things I live now, because I really want

668
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:25,760
Speaker 3: people to understand this about what makes this book so

669
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:29,800
Speaker 3: amazing to me is that I'm not just pulling stories

670
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 3: from out of the thin air and saying, hey, you

671
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 3: see what Lebron did, you can do it too. I

672
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 3: don't know what that's like. I'm not a forty year

673
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 3: old hooper with a twenty year history. Right. What I

674
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 3: do know is that the things that I said I

675
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 3: was going to do when I got out, I wrote

676
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:46,959
Speaker 3: those things down. I practice mindfulness. I practiced meditation, and

677
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 3: I practiced it in a way that requires a lot

678
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:52,440
Speaker 3: of activation. Like you can't just write something down and

679
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:55,400
Speaker 3: forget it. Right, I'm in solitary. I write my first book.

680
00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 3: I asked a guy's on the cell block. You want

681
00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 3: to read this book? A guy was like, Yo, this

682
00:30:59,040 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 3: ain't Oprah.

683
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 1: I have that right here.

684
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 2: Yes, I think that is so ironic. You said, does

685
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 2: anyone to read this book? I just wrote someone down

686
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 2: to tear? Responded back, don't nobody want to read that shit?

687
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 2: This ain't Oprah? And look at that next thing. You know,

688
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:15,920
Speaker 2: you said, I'm gonna write something worthy of Oprah herself

689
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:17,120
Speaker 2: taking the time out to read it.

690
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 1: Who would have ever thunk it?

691
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:20,600
Speaker 3: Yeah? I mean I was in solitary, so I couldn't

692
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:22,880
Speaker 3: get active. So I'm like, okay, what can I do?

693
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:25,440
Speaker 3: And I'm like, okay, well, actually this guy just gave

694
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:27,560
Speaker 3: me a goal, Like I want to write. I don't

695
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:29,239
Speaker 3: want to just be a good writer for someone's been

696
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:30,800
Speaker 3: in prison. I want to be one of the best

697
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 3: in the world. And what's the better measurement is if

698
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 3: over read it, you rise to that level. And so

699
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 3: now she's on book number three, which to tell you

700
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:40,440
Speaker 3: a lot about I got Joe Rogan over here and

701
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 3: Oprah over here. So wow, I got Pee Aelou.

702
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 2: Now listen, you talk about the keys to releasing anger, right,

703
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:56,160
Speaker 2: write down your anger, identify primary emotion, create a counter mantra,

704
00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:59,560
Speaker 2: and then meditate to release anger. So no, just thinking

705
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 2: about working through that, because what I love is at

706
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:04,680
Speaker 2: the end of each chapter you are giving people, you know, just.

707
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:07,120
Speaker 1: Really like the tools to dig deeper. You call it

708
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:07,880
Speaker 1: digging deeper.

709
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:10,480
Speaker 3: Absolutely, yeah. And what I love about the Digging Deeper

710
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:12,520
Speaker 3: chapters that you notice there's like a little door at

711
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 3: the top. And the door is because I wanted people

712
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 3: to know that you can access this anytime, you can

713
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 3: come in and out, because that's life, right. Sometime you're

714
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 3: going to get it right, and sometimes you're going to

715
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:23,959
Speaker 3: take a little step back, and it's like, once you

716
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:26,080
Speaker 3: take that step back, just know that you can go

717
00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 3: back to these tools and it'll help release you from

718
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 3: that that hit in prison.

719
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:32,240
Speaker 1: Now Another thing that was really impactful in your life

720
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:34,840
Speaker 1: was marriage. And see Lizy here too. You didn't change

721
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:36,160
Speaker 1: her name in the book. You didn't have to.

722
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 5: Now.

723
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:42,160
Speaker 2: One thing you were gifted was mirrors, right, and the

724
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 2: elder who gifted the mirror said to you, and marriage,

725
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:46,680
Speaker 2: you become a mirror to your partner. What you reflect

726
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 2: is what you will receive in return. If you reflect love,

727
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 2: patients are understanding, you will get that back. But if

728
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:55,080
Speaker 2: you reflect anger, resentment, or indifference, that too will come

729
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:57,760
Speaker 2: back to you. A happy marriage is built not just

730
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:00,640
Speaker 2: on love, but on the reflections you too to create

731
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 2: every day. And you talk about love being an active choice.

732
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, and it's marital love, but it's also self

733
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 3: love and it's also relational love and friendship and all

734
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:14,320
Speaker 3: those things are like really the primary drivers in life.

735
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:17,200
Speaker 3: To me personally, it's like how much shown up in love?

736
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 3: How much shwn up in love with my wife, how

737
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 3: much swn up in love as a father, how much

738
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:23,720
Speaker 3: shwn up in love as a friend. And it all

739
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 3: comes back to self love because that's what eradicates self doubt,

740
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:31,280
Speaker 3: negative self talk, And when you're in relation with anybody,

741
00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 3: like you're only going to get out of it what

742
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:34,720
Speaker 3: you put into it right, And it doesn't mean it's

743
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:37,719
Speaker 3: like perfect. Like sometimes that mirror is dirty and dusty

744
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:39,960
Speaker 3: and strange stuff and you gotta clean it off and

745
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:41,640
Speaker 3: you got to get back to like, Okay, why don't

746
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:43,920
Speaker 3: we show up in each other's life in the first place?

747
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:46,920
Speaker 3: And I'm fortunate and lucky to have a brilliant, beautiful

748
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:50,440
Speaker 3: wife and that that makes me happy. It's like dope, man.

749
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:52,960
Speaker 2: I just am blown away by all the work that

750
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:56,120
Speaker 2: you've been doing every single you know, I've read three

751
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:57,280
Speaker 2: of your books at this point.

752
00:33:57,480 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, the letters to your sons.

753
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:02,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, also, which was amazing for you for us to

754
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 2: be able to read, you know. May now you have

755
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 2: a son, you have a daughter. Do you ever write,

756
00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:11,479
Speaker 2: like when is the last time you've written anything? Because

757
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:14,480
Speaker 2: I do think that writing is a really purposeful different

758
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:15,040
Speaker 2: type of.

759
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:21,400
Speaker 4: Practice to them. Yeah, no, never other than textas it's.

760
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:23,920
Speaker 2: Not crazy that text messages makes it like so when's

761
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:26,920
Speaker 2: the last time somebody wrote you something like physically?

762
00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 3: But it's all writing though, like I mean, like even

763
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 3: I wrote, I wrote a great percentage of this book,

764
00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:33,920
Speaker 3: like literally in my notes, like I'll be up late

765
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:36,759
Speaker 3: at night or tak Yeah, and I'll have like a

766
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:39,080
Speaker 3: thought of like, you know, story, I'm just put it

767
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:40,840
Speaker 3: in my notes and like and I you know, I

768
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:44,040
Speaker 3: try to encourage the young people I mentor about the craft,

769
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 3: right because there is the craft of writing. Then that's storytelling.

770
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:49,800
Speaker 3: But I think all of it, all of it matters,

771
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 3: you know. That's that's I outline that in the book. Like,

772
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:54,680
Speaker 3: use whatever tools you have at your disposal to get

773
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:55,439
Speaker 3: those stories out.

774
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:56,240
Speaker 1: So you can talk toil.

775
00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:59,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, I do that too, I do it all. I'll

776
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:02,080
Speaker 3: be like no because you know, sometimes you move in

777
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:04,719
Speaker 3: life is happening and you don't want to miss the

778
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:07,279
Speaker 3: energy at that moment. So get a chance to share

779
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:09,080
Speaker 3: all these truths in a variety of ways.

780
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:12,560
Speaker 2: What are some of the things that have happened since

781
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:15,000
Speaker 2: you've been writing, even from you know, when you first

782
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:17,640
Speaker 2: came home and writing your wrongs came out. But what

783
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:19,880
Speaker 2: are some things that people have said to you in

784
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:22,680
Speaker 2: ways that you've affected their lives, that have touched on

785
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:23,319
Speaker 2: you know.

786
00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 3: What's really amazing and truly the greatest honor that I've

787
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:31,200
Speaker 3: ever received is the consistency of feedback from people who

788
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:34,440
Speaker 3: read my work. You know, every day, like literally every

789
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:36,880
Speaker 3: day for probably the last ten years, I get a message,

790
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:40,799
Speaker 3: text message, DM, I get something from somebody saying, hey,

791
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 3: this really helped me. And you know, when I was

792
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:45,200
Speaker 3: writing this book, I have like my friends, so I'm like, yo,

793
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:47,160
Speaker 3: can you read this for me? Can you just let

794
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 3: me know? Is it resonating? And that hidden prison piece

795
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:54,960
Speaker 3: has been really opening people up. And I mean I've

796
00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:57,520
Speaker 3: got friends from all walks of life who are like, hey,

797
00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:00,200
Speaker 3: I was trying to work through something deep in my

798
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:04,719
Speaker 3: life and like joy that's been the brothers in my life.

799
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:07,680
Speaker 3: They've been like on fire about that chapter because they're like,

800
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:10,439
Speaker 3: we don't even talk about how do we as men

801
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:14,680
Speaker 3: access joy? You know. And so that that consistent feedback

802
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:16,799
Speaker 3: has been credit's been over ten years. I always get

803
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:20,200
Speaker 3: something positive from all of my different writers, even sometimes

804
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:23,840
Speaker 3: stuff I've written just online, you know, And so's the

805
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:26,160
Speaker 3: that's the greatest, you know, part of all of this

806
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 3: journey is like I'm a writer's writer, and so to

807
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:31,960
Speaker 3: have people you know, move by my words that that

808
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:33,000
Speaker 3: means everything to me.

809
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:36,400
Speaker 2: All right, well, I love it, and you know, lastly,

810
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:37,759
Speaker 2: I want to end with this part. You said the

811
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:39,080
Speaker 2: one thing I right for used to do was get

812
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:42,320
Speaker 2: stuck in a loop of negative negativity. The moment a negative,

813
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:45,799
Speaker 2: the service, I counted it with positive affirmations. These are

814
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:48,239
Speaker 2: like real things you know that we can do, you said.

815
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:51,400
Speaker 2: I meditated on gratitude, grounding myself and the blessings I

816
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 2: already had, rather than the challenges I faced. It's all

817
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:57,440
Speaker 2: about a commitment to shifting my mindset. It wasn't just

818
00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:00,440
Speaker 2: about pushing through. It was about creating a found of

819
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:03,920
Speaker 2: self belief that allowed me to see possibilities instead of

820
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:07,200
Speaker 2: obstacles and to keep moving forward with hope and purpose.

821
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:10,319
Speaker 2: And I think that's impactful. There's things that I still

822
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:13,280
Speaker 2: struggle with myself to these days. I think everybody struggles

823
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:14,000
Speaker 2: with forgiveness.

824
00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:16,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, would would you think that's like one of your

825
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:18,200
Speaker 3: bigger hitting prisons that forgiveness.

826
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:22,839
Speaker 1: I think that it's hard to say.

827
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:25,359
Speaker 2: There's people that have been like so awful that I

828
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:27,319
Speaker 2: just never even want to deal with them and forget

829
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:28,120
Speaker 2: that they exist.

830
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 1: And so I'm not a vengeful person.

831
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:32,960
Speaker 2: I'm more of a you don't exist to me at

832
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:34,280
Speaker 2: all anymore type of person.

833
00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 3: But if you still entertain the pain that they cause,

834
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:39,840
Speaker 3: they do exist to you, and so real forgiveness is

835
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:41,160
Speaker 3: about how do you release that?

836
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:44,200
Speaker 2: So we're not going to sit down and be cool

837
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:45,719
Speaker 2: like you said, we don't got to kick it.

838
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:47,319
Speaker 1: But but if you.

839
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:50,680
Speaker 3: Release it, you're having a whole different free experience.

840
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:53,520
Speaker 1: It's like pretending it didn't exist releasing it.

841
00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:56,600
Speaker 3: But it's not pretending because if you pretend they always

842
00:37:56,600 --> 00:38:00,160
Speaker 3: come back, they always don't come back. It's really is

843
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:04,240
Speaker 3: deciding that, hey, you can no longer occupy this space

844
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:06,799
Speaker 3: in my life and that I'm going to walk out

845
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:09,680
Speaker 3: of this door to the freest version of myself because

846
00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 3: I've given up all anger, animosity, attachment to this old

847
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:15,719
Speaker 3: thing that no longer says.

848
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:18,480
Speaker 2: You know what I tell people when it's like a situation,

849
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 2: because you know, sometimes your friends will have a tendency

850
00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:24,319
Speaker 2: to like send you stuff about a person like you're like,

851
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:25,839
Speaker 2: oh my god, I cannot stand this person. I don't

852
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 2: even want to think about it, but they'll send you

853
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:30,279
Speaker 2: like you see this, Oh they said this, they said that,

854
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:33,080
Speaker 2: And I'm like, just don't even mention that person to me,

855
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:36,239
Speaker 2: like just erasing like eternal you've seen eternal Sunshinel, the

856
00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:39,440
Speaker 2: spotless mind, is it like erasing it out of my brain.

857
00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:41,320
Speaker 2: That helped me a lot.

858
00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:43,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that's that's that's, that's part of what

859
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:45,440
Speaker 3: that's part of what giving it up is. Right as

860
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:48,680
Speaker 3: you stop entertaining the old story, but you also have

861
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:50,920
Speaker 3: to like create real boundaries with the people in your

862
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:53,360
Speaker 3: life who can continue to bring that.

863
00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:58,040
Speaker 1: I don't even that, don't mention their name, it doesn't exist.

864
00:38:58,120 --> 00:38:58,719
Speaker 1: I moved on.

865
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:02,960
Speaker 2: You know, let's keep going, but definitely practices in here that,

866
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:05,440
Speaker 2: like you said, this doesn't have to be just for

867
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:09,200
Speaker 2: people who were justice impacted, but also for somebody like

868
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:12,280
Speaker 2: myself who is trying to get out of my own free.

869
00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:18,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, your mind, man, two shackles and athletes, executives, entrepreneurs.

870
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:22,560
Speaker 3: Everyday people are just trying to live free persons themselves.

871
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:24,120
Speaker 3: That's really who this book is.

872
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:25,879
Speaker 1: And I'm really hoping he's going to help me, know.

873
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:31,600
Speaker 3: Praying for the first step were you were already you

874
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:33,719
Speaker 3: already started the first step by reading it, and now

875
00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:34,080
Speaker 3: you get a.

876
00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:38,640
Speaker 1: Chance to share. Got another copy, you can have this

877
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 1: one all right? Well, Shaka, thank you so much for

878
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:43,040
Speaker 1: joining us.

879
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:46,200
Speaker 2: I really appreciate you and I know you have respect

880
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:49,360
Speaker 2: all over on tour so people can check you out.

881
00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:52,799
Speaker 3: Right well up only Detroit, I'm coming, Atlanta, all over,

882
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:55,880
Speaker 3: l A, you name it, I'm there. So I'm super excited.

883
00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:57,960
Speaker 1: I got to pull up somewhere because.

884
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:01,239
Speaker 3: Come full of the I know I'm not.

885
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:02,799
Speaker 2: Gonna I want it to come, but I can't because

886
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:04,480
Speaker 2: I'll be traveling when you're in Detroit.

887
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:05,960
Speaker 3: But we'll figure it out.

888
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:07,760
Speaker 1: We're gonna figure it out, please, And we're.

889
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 3: Gonna relaunch probably at the top of the year too,

890
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:12,200
Speaker 3: So we're going in like, this work is so important

891
00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:14,440
Speaker 3: to me and I really want as many people in

892
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:16,600
Speaker 3: the world to have access to it as possible. So

893
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:18,560
Speaker 3: I'm gonna do a second tour just to make sure

894
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:21,360
Speaker 3: that I'm touching the people and really sharing these truths

895
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:21,839
Speaker 3: in this book.

896
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:23,319
Speaker 1: So all right, come back and see us.

897
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:25,440
Speaker 2: Let's see what we already know, what type of meditation

898
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:26,359
Speaker 2: Mano has been doing.

899
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:29,080
Speaker 1: Stop it's way up