WEBVTT - Clare and Carl 0:00:07.040 --> 0:00:10.360 Okay, we're on the plane. 0:00:10.400 --> 0:00:15.000 Okay, on the plane, AI all thirty three. Good to 0:00:15.040 --> 0:00:16.400 be here, Good to be here. 0:00:18.560 --> 0:00:21.880 In late April, my husband and I traveled to London. 0:00:22.760 --> 0:00:25.520 Are you feeling nervous about going to the UK. 0:00:25.440 --> 0:00:26.079 For the first time? 0:00:26.560 --> 0:00:32.760 It's starting to hit me. Yeah, yeah, it's starting to 0:00:32.840 --> 0:00:37.200 hit me. I hope that it's not like the first 0:00:37.240 --> 0:00:41.200 time I went back to Italy. I had never been 0:00:41.360 --> 0:00:46.600 to the UK before, and frankly, I was really nervous. 0:00:47.200 --> 0:00:51.320 In the last eighteen years, the UK media has consistently 0:00:51.440 --> 0:00:56.400 vilified me. My definitive acquittal did not change that. But 0:00:56.880 --> 0:00:59.560 I wanted to take the opportunity to talk to more 0:00:59.600 --> 0:01:03.560 people about the Lucy let Be case. In the days 0:01:03.600 --> 0:01:06.720 that followed, I interviewed people in London and in Chester 0:01:06.840 --> 0:01:10.399 connected to the case, the Countess of Chester, Hospital and 0:01:10.560 --> 0:01:14.360 the NHS, meeting them on the ground and in person 0:01:14.720 --> 0:01:18.240 for the first time. I can't say that I'm super 0:01:18.280 --> 0:01:22.440 thrilled about going on Good Morning Britain. Keeping the Lucy 0:01:22.520 --> 0:01:26.800 let Be case in the public consciousness was also a priority. 0:01:27.040 --> 0:01:29.200 On the pre call you did with Good Morning Britain, 0:01:29.880 --> 0:01:33.760 the producer was like, so, why are you sticking your 0:01:33.800 --> 0:01:38.039 head above the parapet here is just like, essentially, I 0:01:38.040 --> 0:01:42.000 don't think she's wrong. It's like you are going out 0:01:42.040 --> 0:01:44.480 there into a position that you know people are going 0:01:44.520 --> 0:01:45.440 to want to snipe at you. 0:01:46.000 --> 0:01:49.800 Right well, I mean, I feel like that's exactly the 0:01:49.840 --> 0:01:53.520 position I need to be in in this situation. That's 0:01:53.520 --> 0:01:55.880 what people were doing for me back in the day. 0:01:56.240 --> 0:01:59.320 And now I'm putting myself there because I can. I 0:01:59.360 --> 0:02:01.960 can handle it, and I know that it's for a 0:02:01.960 --> 0:02:06.720 good reason. What is that reason to pay it forward 0:02:06.760 --> 0:02:08.840 and try to help get the truth out about someone 0:02:08.880 --> 0:02:15.080 else's life and these tragic cases. Wanting to get the 0:02:15.120 --> 0:02:19.400 truth out meant I did put my anxiety aside and 0:02:19.600 --> 0:02:21.280 appear on Good Morning Britain. 0:02:22.360 --> 0:02:27.799 There are families who have lost children who believe and 0:02:28.440 --> 0:02:33.720 in fact factually have conviction. Because Lucy let Be has 0:02:33.919 --> 0:02:37.880 a conviction for the murder and attempted murder of those. 0:02:37.639 --> 0:02:42.919 Babies, questions about the grieving families understandably did come up. 0:02:43.440 --> 0:02:48.839 So when you investigate whether that conviction is unsafe, how 0:02:48.840 --> 0:02:52.040 do you handle those sensitivities? 0:02:53.360 --> 0:02:56.840 For me, I approach this as a mother and what 0:02:56.880 --> 0:02:59.120 would I want as a mother? I want to know 0:02:59.440 --> 0:03:01.359 I want to know the how, I want to know 0:03:01.400 --> 0:03:03.280 the why, and I want to make sure that the 0:03:03.280 --> 0:03:06.800 people who are accountable for what happened to my children 0:03:07.080 --> 0:03:10.800 are held accountable. And so as I approach this story, 0:03:11.160 --> 0:03:14.560 I'm very very sensitive about protecting the privacy and the 0:03:14.600 --> 0:03:19.240 dignity of the families and the victims while pursuing a 0:03:19.320 --> 0:03:23.280 course of investigation that is very, very focused on the facts. 0:03:23.639 --> 0:03:26.520 It's about what do we know about this hospital, what 0:03:26.560 --> 0:03:29.200 do we know about these cases, and what can we 0:03:29.240 --> 0:03:32.680 say we know for sure as opposed to what is speculation. 0:03:34.480 --> 0:03:37.280 I also spoke to several UK podcasts about the let 0:03:37.320 --> 0:03:42.240 Be case, including Andrew Gold for his podcast Heretics and 0:03:42.440 --> 0:03:46.520 questions about family and parenting came up here too. 0:03:47.520 --> 0:03:50.360 I suppose it's a horrible question, but would you know 0:03:50.400 --> 0:03:53.200 if you were having another child and you knew that 0:03:53.280 --> 0:03:55.320 Lucy let Be was going to be the nurse at 0:03:55.320 --> 0:03:58.440 that hospital, would you take your would you do it there? 0:03:59.480 --> 0:04:01.040 I mean I would go to the Countess of Chester 0:04:01.120 --> 0:04:03.480 Hospital for sure, but if it was at a proper hospital. 0:04:03.520 --> 0:04:07.960 I think the evidence that has revealed about the quality 0:04:07.960 --> 0:04:09.720 of care that Lucy let Bee was giving to those 0:04:09.800 --> 0:04:12.760 children was that she was highly qualified and there isn't 0:04:13.040 --> 0:04:16.440 evidence to suggest that she intentionally harmed any of these babies. 0:04:16.520 --> 0:04:20.160 So yeah, I would trust my baby in Lucy Letby's care. 0:04:20.960 --> 0:04:21.880 That's quite something. 0:04:23.839 --> 0:04:27.960 This interview was heard by a couple in Cheshire, parents 0:04:28.080 --> 0:04:31.800 who had had direct contact with Lucy let be Having 0:04:31.920 --> 0:04:35.000 been silent for a decade, they reached out to me, 0:04:35.120 --> 0:04:37.800 ready to share the story of what happened to their 0:04:37.880 --> 0:04:40.560 baby at the Countess of Chester Hospital. 0:04:42.600 --> 0:04:45.720 We want us to know for sure if any of 0:04:45.760 --> 0:04:48.400 the things that had happened to her, which we thought 0:04:48.400 --> 0:04:52.719 weld just medical, had been induced by this person that 0:04:52.839 --> 0:04:53.560 was being accused of. 0:04:53.560 --> 0:04:58.560 Medi This is doubt the case of Lucy let be 0:04:59.360 --> 0:05:28.680 Bus Episode three. Claire and Carl, what was your first 0:05:28.720 --> 0:05:29.760 experience of birth? 0:05:30.160 --> 0:05:30.240 Like? 0:05:31.320 --> 0:05:31.640 Fine? 0:05:31.760 --> 0:05:32.039 Easy? 0:05:32.160 --> 0:05:33.760 Is anything? I didn't even know it was in There 0:05:34.080 --> 0:05:37.680 wasn't enough pain. We opened said you need to push 0:05:37.720 --> 0:05:40.479 and I was like okay, and he was fine and 0:05:40.680 --> 0:05:43.280 perfect natural, no problems went home the next day. 0:05:44.040 --> 0:05:47.560 Wow. Yeah, And how about for the birth of your daughter. 0:05:49.400 --> 0:05:52.680 This is Claire who gave birth to her daughter at 0:05:52.680 --> 0:05:56.960 the Countess of Chester in May twenty sixteen, when Lucy 0:05:57.080 --> 0:06:02.960 lutb was at her supposedly most day dangerous and prolific. Yeah. 0:06:03.000 --> 0:06:05.560 I was admitted a week before and I had the 0:06:05.600 --> 0:06:11.160 same week after. The pregnancy was awful. She was transverse, 0:06:11.360 --> 0:06:14.600 which meant she was lying sideways, but she was up, 0:06:14.640 --> 0:06:18.720 she was down sideways, just kept spinning around. I was 0:06:18.760 --> 0:06:22.120 older as well, so they were a little bit concerned 0:06:22.120 --> 0:06:28.120 about that. The actual birth was in an emergency section 0:06:28.880 --> 0:06:31.160 and it was the most traumatic thing I've ever gone through. 0:06:31.760 --> 0:06:37.720 Why is that just the way it They just they 0:06:37.720 --> 0:06:40.400 came into monitor me and said, her heart ras isn't 0:06:40.480 --> 0:06:43.000 very good. I'm going to push the big red button. 0:06:43.400 --> 0:06:47.840 It's going to get very busy, very fast. And it did, 0:06:48.600 --> 0:06:50.719 and everyone flew in and they just said go on 0:06:50.760 --> 0:06:54.200 your side. Get on your side. They just said we're 0:06:54.240 --> 0:06:57.039 taking you for a section now, and I was like crying. 0:06:57.839 --> 0:06:59.520 They wanted to put me to sleep, and I said 0:06:59.560 --> 0:07:01.880 no because I want Carl to be there, because his 0:07:02.120 --> 0:07:07.039 only experience of being a father than birth. They eventually agreed. 0:07:07.480 --> 0:07:09.960 They put the sheet up and there's so many people 0:07:09.960 --> 0:07:13.120 in there, and I asked them when they're going to start, 0:07:13.160 --> 0:07:17.000 and they said, we already have. I was getting punched 0:07:17.040 --> 0:07:19.680 to death in my stomach. Her thought was going to 0:07:19.680 --> 0:07:24.559 throw up. I was sweated. She took forty seven minutes 0:07:24.600 --> 0:07:29.360 to get out. She was little, she was tiny, and 0:07:29.400 --> 0:07:31.720 they just took her straight to check her over. And 0:07:31.720 --> 0:07:34.280 that's when KRL came in, and then Kyl came back 0:07:34.320 --> 0:07:36.760 with her to me, and that's when the nurse came 0:07:36.840 --> 0:07:39.240 past and said, we got to take her. She's got 0:07:39.320 --> 0:07:43.080 national flare, and they just took her away. 0:07:44.160 --> 0:07:49.040 Nostril flairing babies is a sign of potential respiratory distress, 0:07:49.080 --> 0:07:52.080 a very serious condition in such a small baby. 0:07:53.040 --> 0:07:55.360 So when the nurse looked at her, because she was 0:07:55.400 --> 0:07:57.720 wrapped up so well, she just saw no shells really 0:07:57.720 --> 0:08:01.880 flaring and said, sorry, just took her off, Carl. And 0:08:01.920 --> 0:08:04.520 then a guy came in and said, here's a picture 0:08:04.520 --> 0:08:10.000 of her. You can see her shortly after recovery. Obviously, 0:08:10.000 --> 0:08:11.920 I was in a wheelchair and I went in to 0:08:11.960 --> 0:08:16.120 see her and she was on lying on the front 0:08:16.120 --> 0:08:17.920 with a bomb in the air, and she had a 0:08:17.920 --> 0:08:21.560 big mask on her face, a breathing mask, loads of wires. 0:08:22.240 --> 0:08:25.200 And I said to the nurse, should she be lying 0:08:25.200 --> 0:08:28.120 on a front And they were like, she's fine, she's 0:08:28.160 --> 0:08:31.440 monitored up to everything, and they said she was okay, 0:08:31.480 --> 0:08:34.360 she just can't get a big breath in. And it 0:08:34.440 --> 0:08:37.280 was actually Lucy that said that to us. She explained 0:08:37.520 --> 0:08:38.360 what was going on. 0:08:39.880 --> 0:08:45.040 Carl, Claire's husband, also recalls Lucy on the neonatal ward. 0:08:45.360 --> 0:08:48.720 Lucy left being very sharious, very quiet, just quietly doing 0:08:49.160 --> 0:08:51.080 what she needed to do. It looked like she was 0:08:51.080 --> 0:08:53.480 taking stats, so she was looking at the monitor, she 0:08:53.559 --> 0:08:55.920 writing things down, and then she spoke to us briefly, 0:08:55.920 --> 0:08:57.640 and then she went on I think she was to 0:08:57.720 --> 0:09:02.040 another baby in the corner, and then off off the room. 0:09:02.360 --> 0:09:05.400 At this point, their new baby daughter Jessica, had had 0:09:05.400 --> 0:09:09.840 a battery of tests, including X rays and a lumbar puncture, 0:09:10.200 --> 0:09:12.960 and was now on antibiotics in case of any infection. 0:09:13.840 --> 0:09:18.120 All normal procedures, but they were told one thing that 0:09:18.280 --> 0:09:21.560 was a cause for a little concern. She had had 0:09:21.640 --> 0:09:25.240 two so called pale moments. 0:09:25.640 --> 0:09:27.800 And I said, what are they in the sense where 0:09:27.800 --> 0:09:30.360 the stats druck on. We don't know why, but she's 0:09:30.400 --> 0:09:35.800 okay now, So I was like, okay. 0:09:36.679 --> 0:09:39.800 In the following days, Claire and her husband Karl, spent 0:09:39.880 --> 0:09:43.600 time between the maternity ward and the neonatal unit. And 0:09:43.679 --> 0:09:46.520 before we get to how Lucy interacted with their baby. 0:09:46.960 --> 0:09:50.720 We need to understand what conditions were actually like in 0:09:50.800 --> 0:09:55.200 Countess of Chester Hospital because those conditions, if you recall, 0:09:55.640 --> 0:09:59.559 are at the center of the alternate non criminal explanations 0:09:59.800 --> 0:10:04.000 for the increased deaths during this time. What was it 0:10:04.280 --> 0:10:06.360 like on the maternity ward at the time. 0:10:07.520 --> 0:10:10.440 Not very good, to be fair. It was really old, 0:10:11.320 --> 0:10:15.720 really hot, like ridiculously hot. The doors didn't work properly 0:10:15.880 --> 0:10:19.480 or the bathrooms weren't very good. There was loads of 0:10:19.600 --> 0:10:25.760 arguments between staff and people staying on the wards with families. 0:10:25.920 --> 0:10:29.280 There was police called, there was security there. It just 0:10:29.320 --> 0:10:30.480 didn't seem very professional. 0:10:31.640 --> 0:10:36.360 Old seventies buildings, automatic doors not working right, you have 0:10:36.360 --> 0:10:38.000 to knock on a window to get someone to let 0:10:38.000 --> 0:10:41.000 you in, you know that sort of thing. Lots of 0:10:41.040 --> 0:10:45.640 hustle and bustle, lots of noise, you know, lefts out 0:10:45.640 --> 0:10:48.679 of order. The thing that comes across the most is 0:10:48.679 --> 0:10:53.760 is there's a lot of staff complaining and they're not 0:10:54.080 --> 0:10:56.720 quiet about it. So because we were there for a 0:10:56.760 --> 0:10:59.360 week and a half or a little bit longer, these 0:10:59.360 --> 0:11:01.680 people just naturally get to know you and they're just 0:11:01.720 --> 0:11:06.120 telling you about the day and that it's nothing. Both well, 0:11:06.160 --> 0:11:09.000 this isn't working such and such as an in today, 0:11:09.559 --> 0:11:13.360 so we're understaffed, or we can't do that now because 0:11:13.400 --> 0:11:16.400 that unit's been shut down for a deep clean, so 0:11:16.440 --> 0:11:18.400 we've got everybody working on that, so you're not going 0:11:18.400 --> 0:11:21.840 to get this today. Like everything was a series of 0:11:21.880 --> 0:11:25.640 compromises that these people had to make every day because 0:11:25.679 --> 0:11:30.240 of either understaffed or under equipped, or the facilities themselves 0:11:30.240 --> 0:11:32.280 went working so they were waiting for a plumber to 0:11:32.320 --> 0:11:34.640 come in, or they were waiting for an electrician, so 0:11:34.679 --> 0:11:36.480 that area was out of use until then. 0:11:37.720 --> 0:11:40.680 And the actual saturday she was born, I actually woke 0:11:40.760 --> 0:11:42.880 up with contractions and I was like, this isn't good. 0:11:43.480 --> 0:11:45.400 So I got up and went to someone and said 0:11:45.679 --> 0:11:48.200 I'm having contractions and they went, oh, wow, well done, 0:11:48.240 --> 0:11:50.880 and I was like, no, no, this isn't good. I 0:11:50.920 --> 0:11:53.760 can't have a naturally, you know, a foot might come 0:11:53.800 --> 0:11:56.000 out or she's lying the wrong way, and they just 0:11:56.040 --> 0:11:58.840 walked away, so I was like, I need to find someone. 0:12:01.120 --> 0:12:03.280 I wasn't shocked that they were all rushed and that 0:12:03.320 --> 0:12:06.079 we were understaffed, or shocked that they were people to 0:12:06.200 --> 0:12:09.160 answer questions. Was just that's just part and part of 0:12:09.640 --> 0:12:16.800 what happens when you go through the NHS system. 0:12:16.840 --> 0:12:18.640 What was it like when you went down to visit 0:12:18.720 --> 0:12:19.760 the neonatal unit. 0:12:21.280 --> 0:12:25.080 The way it's laid out is there's a room which 0:12:25.120 --> 0:12:27.760 is very very dark to keep the lights very low, 0:12:28.320 --> 0:12:29.880 and I think that's the room where they have like 0:12:29.880 --> 0:12:31.400 the sickest children. 0:12:32.920 --> 0:12:36.679 It was very very busy. They were like shooting everywhere 0:12:36.800 --> 0:12:40.360 the staff and there was monsters going off and that 0:12:40.520 --> 0:12:42.880 room was kind of quiet, but there were nurses just 0:12:43.440 --> 0:12:48.959 like going everywhere. There never still ever and they said, 0:12:49.320 --> 0:12:53.120 she's fine, she's fine, she's doing well. That was the 0:12:53.160 --> 0:12:57.520 first night. The second night she was out of there 0:12:57.640 --> 0:13:01.400 into a separate room in a cot, no dome over it, 0:13:01.520 --> 0:13:04.600 still wired up on the monsters to check our stats 0:13:04.640 --> 0:13:05.160 all the time. 0:13:06.280 --> 0:13:09.480 What would you say The vibe of the atmosphere. 0:13:09.040 --> 0:13:14.560 Was like it seemed very intense, very stressed. The atmosphere 0:13:14.600 --> 0:13:16.719 seems like you cut it with a knife sort of thing. 0:13:16.800 --> 0:13:18.480 It was very god you know. 0:13:19.040 --> 0:13:20.800 I mean we sat there with Jessica and a cart 0:13:20.800 --> 0:13:24.680 and monitors going off behind us and nurses rushing everywhere, 0:13:24.720 --> 0:13:26.720 and they're saying, oh, this baby keeps stop breathing. We 0:13:26.720 --> 0:13:27.320 don't know why. 0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:28.560 And I was like, oh my god. 0:13:29.040 --> 0:13:32.600 You know, it was very not inappropriate, but very high. 0:13:32.920 --> 0:13:36.120 I didn't want to sit there and witness that. I know, 0:13:36.240 --> 0:13:38.720 we're in a room with poorly babies, but I was like, 0:13:38.800 --> 0:13:40.360 oh gosh. 0:13:40.559 --> 0:13:43.040 Did it seem like the nurses knew what to do? 0:13:44.600 --> 0:13:47.720 Yeah, they did too fair. 0:13:50.000 --> 0:13:52.160 One of the things that the nurses brought up was 0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:56.800 a small detail, but knowing what follows is possibly a 0:13:56.920 --> 0:14:00.360 huge clue as to what was going on on the unit. 0:14:01.280 --> 0:14:05.120 They had a fright because they went to weigh her 0:14:06.000 --> 0:14:09.760 and she was like five pounds and we told us 0:14:09.800 --> 0:14:12.199 that she was six pound three when she was born, 0:14:12.640 --> 0:14:15.120 so she's lost a lot of weight very quickly. But 0:14:15.160 --> 0:14:17.520 they went and checked with a delivery room to make 0:14:17.559 --> 0:14:21.160 sure and their scales were out. I was like, wow, 0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:23.320 so many babies have got the wrong weight right now, 0:14:25.160 --> 0:14:27.200 all these babies been born, they've got the wrong weight, 0:14:27.680 --> 0:14:29.080 which is important with a newborn. 0:14:29.520 --> 0:14:29.760 Yeah. 0:14:30.000 --> 0:14:32.040 Yeah, the buttons on what kind of food you give them, 0:14:32.080 --> 0:14:34.160 what dation you give them? Yeah. 0:14:34.760 --> 0:14:36.240 I was just shocked. 0:14:36.280 --> 0:14:40.040 Really, I was like, this really important part of a 0:14:40.080 --> 0:14:42.840 newborn baby is like how much they weigh to how 0:14:42.960 --> 0:14:46.800 much are they gaining weight? Are they losing weight, how 0:14:46.880 --> 0:14:49.360 much feed do you give them, how often you feed them, 0:14:49.560 --> 0:14:52.400 you know, things like that. I just couldn't believe it, really, 0:14:52.520 --> 0:14:55.440 for in a neonatal unit. Does it not work? You know, 0:14:55.560 --> 0:14:57.040 it's it's just ni bizarre. 0:14:57.960 --> 0:15:01.240 So if the scales were out on the maternity ward, 0:15:01.920 --> 0:15:05.080 could that mean the babies we know who died from 0:15:05.120 --> 0:15:14.360 overfeeding could have been saved? Eventually, thankfully, baby Jessica recovered. 0:15:15.720 --> 0:15:18.080 Lucy Leppie was the one who brought Jessica up to 0:15:18.160 --> 0:15:20.800 our room in the ward when she was free out 0:15:20.800 --> 0:15:23.080 of the need you to come up and sit with us, 0:15:23.760 --> 0:15:26.840 so she delivered it to us and that was a 0:15:26.920 --> 0:15:29.200 very short, quick interaction as well. She's just, you know, 0:15:30.040 --> 0:15:34.440 here's your baby kind of thing. She's all yours. My 0:15:34.720 --> 0:15:38.280 experience is very different than my wife should see, very 0:15:38.440 --> 0:15:42.120 very traumatic time for Claire, but for me it was 0:15:42.400 --> 0:15:45.920 like one of the best times of my life because 0:15:46.000 --> 0:15:49.800 my daughter's coming into the world and I thought everything 0:15:49.840 --> 0:15:53.120 was okay. So those that week and a half for 0:15:53.200 --> 0:15:56.680 me was really just filled with I can't wait to 0:15:56.720 --> 0:15:59.400 get at home and you know, make sure Claire was 0:15:59.440 --> 0:16:00.440 recovering quickly. 0:16:02.000 --> 0:16:04.560 How did it feel when you were able to go home? 0:16:05.520 --> 0:16:08.000 After Jessica finished around TOI Biotics and got the all clear, 0:16:08.440 --> 0:16:11.360 it was that she just like couldn't wait to get home, 0:16:11.400 --> 0:16:13.960 you know what I mean, just wanted to leave and 0:16:14.080 --> 0:16:17.120 never come back hever. And I got home, I just 0:16:17.200 --> 0:16:20.480 literally be put down. I just need to go outside 0:16:20.680 --> 0:16:24.000 and sit down outside and just give meself five minutes 0:16:24.160 --> 0:16:30.080 to say I'm home, you know. Yeah, it was really nice. 0:16:29.880 --> 0:16:30.320 To be here. 0:16:34.880 --> 0:16:38.840 Two years later, it's twenty eighteen and Jessica is growing 0:16:39.200 --> 0:16:43.120 healthy and happy. There had been some issues with her breathing, 0:16:43.320 --> 0:16:49.400 but she had recovered. Well, do you remember when you 0:16:49.480 --> 0:16:51.920 first heard that there was a case at the hospital 0:16:52.000 --> 0:16:53.120 against Lucy letb. 0:16:54.240 --> 0:16:54.440 Yeah. 0:16:54.520 --> 0:16:56.720 My sister in law sent me a message said have 0:16:56.760 --> 0:16:59.200 you seen this? And I read it and I was like, 0:16:59.280 --> 0:17:00.360 oh my gosh. 0:17:01.040 --> 0:17:03.360 When you hear news like that, you go I knew 0:17:03.360 --> 0:17:06.199 there was something going on in that unit, but we 0:17:06.280 --> 0:17:08.119 didn't know what at the time. You just get a 0:17:08.160 --> 0:17:11.439 feeling for there's something wrong, there's attension in it in 0:17:11.480 --> 0:17:14.919 a place, you know. But again, because my experience has 0:17:14.960 --> 0:17:20.040 been reasonably positive, I hadn't thought about it and dwelled 0:17:20.080 --> 0:17:22.000 on it as much as Claire. So when the news 0:17:22.000 --> 0:17:24.919 came out. It more affected Claire more than me, really, 0:17:25.920 --> 0:17:26.439 and it's. 0:17:26.320 --> 0:17:28.600 Sprung to my mind that these pale moments that she 0:17:28.680 --> 0:17:32.320 had that couldn't be explained, which I found very strange 0:17:32.440 --> 0:17:36.080 considering I thought these people in the hospital where it's 0:17:36.119 --> 0:17:39.920 that unit were specialized in very sick children babies. 0:17:40.960 --> 0:17:45.159 My attitude was, she's here, she's happy, she's healthy, We're lucky. 0:17:45.720 --> 0:17:48.200 We don't need to be involved, you know. 0:17:49.480 --> 0:17:53.280 I said, well, I need to find out because you 0:17:53.359 --> 0:17:54.080 didn't sit with me. 0:17:54.160 --> 0:17:58.680 Well, we wants to know for sure if any of 0:17:58.720 --> 0:18:01.200 the things that had happened to which we thought were 0:18:01.320 --> 0:18:04.960 just you know, medical had been induced by this person 0:18:05.040 --> 0:18:07.760 that was being accused of Maurer because just like everybody 0:18:07.840 --> 0:18:10.399 else and the way the media portrayed it, we just 0:18:10.560 --> 0:18:12.960 jumped to the conclusion that she must be guilty. Why 0:18:13.000 --> 0:18:14.960 would you were arrested women for that, you know, if 0:18:14.960 --> 0:18:17.800 you didn't have proper evidence, and then the news are 0:18:17.800 --> 0:18:19.679 saying there's a confession and all the rest of us. 0:18:19.680 --> 0:18:22.359 So he's just like, well, this person has been in 0:18:22.520 --> 0:18:25.600 extremely close proximity to my daughter at the time that 0:18:25.640 --> 0:18:28.880 she was extremely ill. We did want to know if 0:18:28.880 --> 0:18:32.200 she would be involved in the investigation and that's when 0:18:32.200 --> 0:18:33.200 we reached out to the police. 0:18:34.440 --> 0:18:37.679 I emailed them, I said, the only reason is because 0:18:37.760 --> 0:18:40.200 she had these two pale moments and they won't explain 0:18:40.240 --> 0:18:43.560 to me why, And they just came back and said, well, 0:18:43.560 --> 0:18:44.240 look at her file. 0:19:04.680 --> 0:19:08.800 The police, working on Operation Hammingbird, agreed to investigate Jessica's 0:19:08.840 --> 0:19:12.320 file to find out if any intentional harm had been 0:19:12.320 --> 0:19:15.959 done to their baby by lucy LETB. Did you have 0:19:16.000 --> 0:19:19.680 any particular feelings about Lucy let be at the time 0:19:19.840 --> 0:19:21.440 when you when you heard about all of this. 0:19:22.520 --> 0:19:26.040 I at the time, I was like, first off, I 0:19:26.040 --> 0:19:29.119 couldn't believe it because they were so busy. Where they 0:19:29.119 --> 0:19:32.720 find the time, they always be together, there's always two nurses, 0:19:32.920 --> 0:19:35.719 So it's like, how on earth that could have possibly happened. 0:19:36.040 --> 0:19:39.680 I don't know, you know, because literally they were everywhere 0:19:39.760 --> 0:19:42.680 there was nurses just together, flip flip flip flipped to 0:19:42.800 --> 0:19:46.000 different things. And then I was like obviously concerned that 0:19:46.359 --> 0:19:49.240 something could have happened to Jessica and I wanted to 0:19:49.280 --> 0:19:52.440 know why. But the only interaction I had with at 0:19:52.440 --> 0:19:54.760 firstly was that very first I said, this is what 0:19:54.800 --> 0:19:57.080 we've done to her. I'm bringing her back to our 0:19:57.240 --> 0:19:59.680 room the police. 0:19:59.840 --> 0:20:02.400 The actually came back to the couple. Having gone through 0:20:02.480 --> 0:20:07.000 Jessica's file, they say there is no need for further investigation. 0:20:08.160 --> 0:20:11.240 Jessica will not be a part of the case against 0:20:11.359 --> 0:20:12.040 Lucy let Be. 0:20:13.440 --> 0:20:17.920 Really relieved obviously, like thank goodness, but then still had questions, 0:20:17.960 --> 0:20:21.320 really like if she's not being investigated, why does she 0:20:21.400 --> 0:20:24.560 have these moments where has start dropped for no reason 0:20:24.600 --> 0:20:24.960 at all. 0:20:25.960 --> 0:20:28.320 It didn't matter to me because she's here, she's happy, 0:20:28.359 --> 0:20:32.320 she's healthy, she's got a great mind, she's completely just 0:20:32.680 --> 0:20:34.639 everything you could ever want out of a child. So 0:20:35.440 --> 0:20:37.919 it was like, all's well, that ends well, was my 0:20:38.119 --> 0:20:40.960 kind of feeling. At that point. 0:20:41.880 --> 0:20:45.520 We thought, okay, we're done. Then it came out again 0:20:45.600 --> 0:20:48.520 in socials and the news that she was accused of 0:20:48.680 --> 0:20:51.399 more cases. So I thought to myself, well, if they 0:20:51.440 --> 0:20:55.440 missed that first time around, maybe they missed my daughters. 0:20:55.880 --> 0:20:58.560 So I said, look, I'm not happy, like, obviously new 0:20:58.600 --> 0:21:01.720 information has come out, so reinvestigate my daughter. 0:21:03.280 --> 0:21:07.359 In light of Lucy let Be's second arrest, Operation Hummingbird 0:21:07.440 --> 0:21:11.560 agreed to take another look at baby Jessica's file. They 0:21:11.600 --> 0:21:15.360 also make Claire and Carl an unexpected offer. 0:21:15.600 --> 0:21:17.119 Would you like to meet with the head of the 0:21:17.119 --> 0:21:20.159 hospital on the head of pediatrics and they can go 0:21:20.240 --> 0:21:23.200 through what happened to Jessica while she was in the unit. 0:21:23.800 --> 0:21:26.280 And I said perfect. And I said, okay, we'll arrange 0:21:26.320 --> 0:21:29.399 that you'll pay from the Countess in the next few days. 0:21:33.240 --> 0:21:35.960 Let's talk about that. Meeting at the hospital. 0:21:36.960 --> 0:21:40.320 Very much was a please don't sue. His meeting was 0:21:40.400 --> 0:21:43.879 the field. You know, we haven't done anything wrong. Don't worry. 0:21:43.960 --> 0:21:46.760 Your child was not in any way involved. Oh but 0:21:46.920 --> 0:21:49.480 by the way, she did have all these things done 0:21:49.520 --> 0:21:52.760 to her and you should know them already. It was 0:21:52.920 --> 0:21:56.320 a very dismissive attitude. Tools it was like, well, don't worry, 0:21:56.359 --> 0:21:59.480 she's fine, was the takeaway that they were trying to 0:21:59.640 --> 0:22:00.000 give it. 0:22:01.040 --> 0:22:03.040 One of them was head of the hospital and the 0:22:03.080 --> 0:22:06.439 one was the head of pediatrics. The head of pediatrics 0:22:06.440 --> 0:22:09.159 had a piece of paper with him and they said, 0:22:09.440 --> 0:22:12.280 I've got a list here of what happened to Jessica 0:22:12.400 --> 0:22:15.560 while she was missed onto the unit. I said, okay, yeah, 0:22:15.560 --> 0:22:18.520 read it outgrade. So they said she had what we 0:22:18.520 --> 0:22:22.000 was told. And then he said she needed to be 0:22:22.040 --> 0:22:25.920 intribated and have medicine put into her lungs to help 0:22:25.960 --> 0:22:31.440 her breathe, and we were like what and said, well, 0:22:31.440 --> 0:22:33.800 it says it parents informed and we were like, no, 0:22:33.920 --> 0:22:37.360 we were not informed at all because both of us 0:22:37.359 --> 0:22:42.160 just went oh, said you put oh, my gosh. Then 0:22:42.280 --> 0:22:44.760 the head of hospital said, well, she was the sickest 0:22:44.760 --> 0:22:47.440 baby in the unit for twenty four hours. 0:22:48.480 --> 0:22:48.720 Or she. 0:22:49.760 --> 0:22:51.800 I said, if I knew that, I wouldn't have left 0:22:51.840 --> 0:22:52.520 her side. 0:22:53.119 --> 0:22:53.879 We weren't told. 0:22:55.320 --> 0:22:59.240 In a meeting lasting forty five minutes, Claire and Carl 0:22:59.440 --> 0:23:02.760 finally get their answer as to why their baby had 0:23:02.800 --> 0:23:05.040 suffered pale moments. 0:23:05.520 --> 0:23:08.160 They said, well, a baby with reflux, if they lie 0:23:08.160 --> 0:23:10.679 in the back, they hold the breath on the stats 0:23:10.720 --> 0:23:13.960 druck and I said, if I knew that, then I 0:23:13.960 --> 0:23:17.760 wouldn't be here now. No one in a unit that 0:23:17.880 --> 0:23:20.439