Speaker 1: This is the Patriots Catch twenty two podcasts with Evan
Speaker 1: Lazar and Alex bar and Lazarre Hell, everybody nailed it.
Speaker 2: Joined as always buy our bar gas. Here is Evan
Speaker 2: Lazar and Alex Bars. Now you can play action. Now
Speaker 2: you can boot, you can move the pocket off of
Speaker 2: that that that's how you can protect the quarterback. And
Speaker 2: not only are you protecting the quarterback, but you're protecting
Speaker 2: the pass protection as well because you're doing these things
Speaker 2: schematically that give the defense pause and force the defense
Speaker 2: to respect the run and respect the actions in the backfield.
Speaker 2: So let me just get the stray all of these things.
Speaker 2: It's not where I want to be like, it's not
Speaker 2: like the end goal. It's not the end.
Speaker 1: But you're acknowledging the run can set up the past.
Speaker 1: That whole argument we had this or about saying being
Speaker 1: tough on the line of scrimmage and pushing the defense
Speaker 1: around initially can benefit you later in the game.
Speaker 2: I am acknowledging that run actions mean more than just
Speaker 2: running the footballs. How did you like that?
Speaker 3: For?
Speaker 2: Weaseling out of saying that running the football sets up
Speaker 2: play action? That was that was pro by me? There,
Speaker 2: You just admitted it. No I saw you did? You
Speaker 2: just admitted I said, except what I said.
Speaker 1: Hello, You said that was establishing the run works?
Speaker 2: No I didn't. I said that run actions are sell
Speaker 2: to the defense.
Speaker 1: That's just establishing the run with that's more worthy.
Speaker 2: It's not about but it's not about volume of running.
Speaker 2: It's just about showing.
Speaker 1: Nobody ever say establishing the run was a volume thing.
Speaker 2: How else would you establish the run.
Speaker 1: You have to feed the round, running the football well.
Speaker 2: Or running running it early. Established the run at a
Speaker 2: high volume.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so that the number is not zero. It
Speaker 1: doesn't mean run it ten times in a row.
Speaker 2: Okay, I don't know. I feel like that's established.
Speaker 1: I've never viewed established the run as a volume thing.
Speaker 2: All right, that's a that's a good semantic.
Speaker 1: There are times where I would campaign for volume running
Speaker 1: of the I usually say that running the hell out
Speaker 1: of the ball or running the damn ball. But when
Speaker 1: I say establishing the run, I mean running it well,
Speaker 1: not running it. If you run the ball ten times
Speaker 1: in a row and all ten runs go nowhere, you
Speaker 1: didn't establish the run.
Speaker 2: You just ran the ball into a brick wall, right,
Speaker 2: which is what the nerds say, is the issue with
Speaker 2: the conversation is like you are just purposely three yards
Speaker 2: in a cloud of dusting it because you just want
Speaker 2: to establish the run.
Speaker 1: To me, if you know, if your first run gets
Speaker 1: stuffed and you'd never try it again, that's stupid too.
Speaker 1: Like there's you got to realize when you know when
Speaker 1: you got to kind of make an adjustment. But like,
Speaker 1: to me, establishing the run means, say you run it
Speaker 1: like five times on your first drive, right, three of
Speaker 1: them go for five plus, one of them goes for
Speaker 1: ten plus. Now in the defense has said, oh crap,
Speaker 1: they can run on us. We got to stack the box,
Speaker 1: or we can't send as many guys on the blitz,
Speaker 1: or we can't put as many guys back in coverage
Speaker 1: because they're just going to run on us all damn
Speaker 1: day if we keep doing what we're doing. They've already
Speaker 1: ripped off good ones here in five plays like that.
Speaker 1: To me, once you've established that mental sided, that's what
Speaker 1: establishing the run is to make. It's making the defense
Speaker 1: change the way they approach it. If you run ten
Speaker 1: times in a row, the defense stops all of it
Speaker 1: and changes nothing. You didn't establish the run, you tried to,
Speaker 1: but you didn't.
Speaker 2: So quick story and then well, I promise we'll get
Speaker 2: to the real part of the show that was not
Speaker 2: This a fun but quick story. So I just humble
Speaker 2: Bragg just bumped into the mccordy Twins on my way
Speaker 2: in this morning into the stadium because they are going
Speaker 2: to be broadcasting the game along with your friend Scott
Speaker 2: Zolac on w BZ. I think right Local, CBS Local.
Speaker 2: I feel like you should not the preseason game, the
Speaker 2: preseason opener between the Patriots and the Commanders here at
Speaker 2: Gillette Stadium at seven thirty pm Eastern time tomorrow. I
Speaker 2: should also say tomorrow, I mean Friday, if you're listening
Speaker 2: to this on the on the on demand. And I
Speaker 2: should also mention the Tom Brady statue going in tomorrow
Speaker 2: Friday before the game. And I believe six is the
Speaker 2: kickoff six o'clock in the plaza, so that will be
Speaker 2: exciting as well. If you have tickets to the game.
Speaker 2: I think this is an important thing to say. If
Speaker 2: you have tickets to the game, you're actually gonna be
Speaker 2: able to watch the Brady statue ceremony on the scoreboard
Speaker 2: and on the on the video boards so you don't
Speaker 2: have to necessarily be in the plaza for that. You
Speaker 2: can watch it as well in the stadium if you
Speaker 2: have a ticket to the preseason game. Enough plugs now
Speaker 2: did the company thing. But I saw the mccordey twins
Speaker 2: and it made me think of this story. Devin said
Speaker 2: this story at some point, I don't know when that
Speaker 2: to this play action thing that Vince will Fork used
Speaker 2: to tell him before games. Don't be coming up here,
Speaker 2: he would tell Devon. He'd say, don't worry about the run,
Speaker 2: like I got the run, like you go worry about
Speaker 2: you know what's going on behind me? Right, Like, don't
Speaker 2: be coming up here. And he said that Vince Wilfork
Speaker 2: anytime the safeties would like bite on play action and
Speaker 2: start screaming upfield to try to stop the run and
Speaker 2: they give up a play because of that, Vince Wilfork
Speaker 2: would just be irate, like he would just get on
Speaker 2: their butts for it. He would just be like, do
Speaker 2: not come up here, like do you know who I am?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 2: And Vince Wilfork, I will stop the run. You worry
Speaker 2: about the receivers not getting behind you. So that's that's
Speaker 2: the whole thing, right, Like that's the whole.
Speaker 1: That's point is like, if the other team doesn't, if
Speaker 1: the safety is don't have to keep come screaming up,
Speaker 1: does the defensive line taking care of the run? You
Speaker 1: didn't really establish the run?
Speaker 2: All right? So let's talk about practice. And I wanted
Speaker 2: to segue into that by saying, let's talk about practice,
Speaker 2: because I do think it's worth saying. There's a lot
Speaker 2: of positive reviews about what the Patriots did yesterday against
Speaker 2: the Washington Commanders and joint practice, and I don't want
Speaker 2: to take away from that. I don't want to rain
Speaker 2: on parades. I don't want to do anything like that.
Speaker 2: But we are talking about practice, so I want to
Speaker 2: keep that in perspective. They haven't they're not going to
Speaker 2: the super Bowl just yet. Right, We're stacking, We're stacking days.
Speaker 2: With that being said, with that caveat aside, it was
Speaker 2: a really positive day for the Patriots yesterday. I thought
Speaker 2: on both sides of the ball, they competed. I thought
Speaker 2: offensively for about ninety five percent of the practice they
Speaker 2: had the upper hand on the Commander's defense. Then obviously
Speaker 2: the pick at the end, which I hate that I
Speaker 2: have to put that in there. The yeah, but of it.
Speaker 1: All, did you hear me try to explain it on
Speaker 1: Felgrin Maz yesterday. No, but I called it a competitive
Speaker 1: interception and got yelled at.
Speaker 2: Oh good, good, good way to put it. Competitive interception.
Speaker 1: It wasn't in the sense like it wasn't a spray.
Speaker 1: It wasn't like, what the hell is he thinking? Kind
Speaker 1: of read he tested a window in a Hall of
Speaker 1: Fame linebacker jumped into it. Yeah, that's going to happen.
Speaker 2: So the most positive point, and I want to go
Speaker 2: big picture like we always do, and we're going to
Speaker 2: go small, go into the details, into the weeds, and
Speaker 2: I have notes, you know, facilitate notes of how like
Speaker 2: we're going to hit every position. I promise we're going
Speaker 2: to get into the minutia here. But the big picture
Speaker 2: thought that I had taking away from this was that
Speaker 2: I really thought I saw offensively, and I will admit
Speaker 2: that I watch more of the offense and the defense.
Speaker 2: Oh good, that'll be a good show. The offensively. I
Speaker 2: felt like I was seeing a lot of teach tape
Speaker 2: of the Josh McDaniels offense, like when they ran a
Speaker 2: play like this is how the script and this is
Speaker 2: how it's supposed to look when we put the play
Speaker 2: up on the video board or on the whiteboard in
Speaker 2: the meeting room, and we say like, this receiver is
Speaker 2: going to run here, and that receiver is going to
Speaker 2: run there, and we're going to get the ball out here,
Speaker 2: and we're going to read it like this. Like I
Speaker 2: saw a lot of plays where the initial look that
Speaker 2: Drake may saw, the initial picture, the initial read was opened.
Speaker 2: The ball is out on time, it was on the
Speaker 2: receivers accurately. The receivers were then transitioning and taking the
Speaker 2: ball and making some plays with it and yards after
Speaker 2: the catch, especially the tight ends and pop douglas. I thought,
Speaker 2: we're just hitting on time in rhythm throws throughout the practice,
Speaker 2: and that was highly encouraging. We saw some play action
Speaker 2: mix in there, some McDaniel's classic pull the guard, you know,
Speaker 2: play action type plays, pop passes. We saw the little
Speaker 2: quick hitters over the middle of the field from the
Speaker 2: Mario Douglas just right out of the McDaniels playbook of
Speaker 2: the slot receiver. You know, first down, we're going to
Speaker 2: be where balls out first down, we're moving the chains
Speaker 2: right where we're ahead of schedule or we're on schedule now,
Speaker 2: all of that kind of thing. That was probably the
Speaker 2: most encouraging part because I've seen joint practices and years past.
Speaker 2: I know we always talk about the Eagles joint practice,
Speaker 2: but I want to stay away from that practice for
Speaker 2: a second, because that was just I'm gonna be blunt.
Speaker 2: That was just a train wreck, right, That was just
Speaker 2: an app that.
Speaker 1: Was a historically good front against a historically bad line.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 2: I'm more talking about joint practices two years ago with
Speaker 2: the Green Bay Packers, or I want to say it
Speaker 2: was three years ago with the Las Vegas Raiders, like
Speaker 2: practices that were more competitive than the one last year
Speaker 2: that we saw against Philadelphia. Those practices it was like
Speaker 2: blips here and there where, Like Devonte Parker. I think
Speaker 2: in the Green Bay practice, they did like the forty
Speaker 2: five second thing that they did at the end of
Speaker 2: practice yesterday, and DeVante Parker got behind the defense and
Speaker 2: they hit one right, and it was like, okay, great,
Speaker 2: but the other you know, ten throws in the string
Speaker 2: work great, right, But they ended it on a high
Speaker 2: note with that same thing with Vegas. They had one
Speaker 2: forty five second one minute drill that went really, really well,
Speaker 2: at the end of one of those practices in Las Vegas.
Speaker 2: But this practice was like consistent. This looks like a
Speaker 2: Patriot offense. Just looks in rhythm. This looks on time.
Speaker 2: The line is holding up, Drake May is making the
Speaker 2: right reads, he's making the right throws, the ball is accurate,
Speaker 2: it's out on time, it's on the receiver, and we're going.
Speaker 2: And that I have not seen in a Patriot joint
Speaker 2: practice in quite some time, probably since Brady was here. Honestly,
Speaker 2: all right.
Speaker 1: So me and Reese both said that Re said on
Speaker 1: the lack of Chean and I said it on Felgrim
Speaker 1: Mez that this felt like maybe their most complete offensive
Speaker 1: practice since Brady, and I know when re said it,
Speaker 1: he said he was worried about getting caught up in
Speaker 1: the moment. I was, as well, you go back to
Speaker 1: I think somebody tweeted at me like jokingly when I
Speaker 1: like late in practice and I was like, hey, this
Speaker 1: is going great, was like, oh, so is this the
Speaker 1: mac Jones Giants practice. That's a good I mean that
Speaker 1: one's up there. Obviously it didn't mount too much, but
Speaker 1: that one's up there, yep.
Speaker 2: I forgot about that one.
Speaker 1: That's but no, it's I mean, right in look one
Speaker 1: practice best practice, since Brady kind of sounds tungue in cheek,
Speaker 1: but like you're against a team that was in the
Speaker 1: NFC Championship last year, and the Patriots from what I
Speaker 1: saw from the defense too, And I had Matt's off
Speaker 1: watching the defense, and he knows what he's watching. So
Speaker 1: we conferred notes and we both agreed that on both
Speaker 1: sides of the ball, the Patriots looked like the better team. Now,
Speaker 1: the Commanders were down a few more starters than the
Speaker 1: Patriots were, so maybe that was it. But you came
Speaker 1: away from that feeling good. You came away from that
Speaker 1: feeling like the Patriots belonged. It's been a minute since
Speaker 1: they've had one of the joint practice was practices, like
Speaker 1: you said, where it was like, yeah, that was a
Speaker 1: healthy back and forth.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's exactly how I would describe that as well.
Speaker 2: And you know, I was just really encouraged by it
Speaker 2: did not look like any element of the offense was
Speaker 2: so catastrophic that they couldn't run the offense, right, Like,
Speaker 2: it didn't look like the line was getting whooped so
Speaker 2: they couldn't run the offense or the quarterback just was
Speaker 2: in over his head, so they couldn't run the offense.
Speaker 2: So the receivers weren't getting separation down the field, so
Speaker 2: they couldn't run the offense. They had all three of
Speaker 2: those things were good enough to compete in a game
Speaker 2: or in a practice, excuse me, against a team that
Speaker 2: was in the NFC Championship game a year ago. Now.
Speaker 2: We talked a little bit about this on Patriots on filter,
Speaker 2: like maybe the Commanders overachieved a little bit last year.
Speaker 2: There's some of that going on as well, but still
Speaker 2: they are a playoff team. They are a playoff caliber opponent,
Speaker 2: and the Patriots held their own and maybe even won
Speaker 2: the practice, if you want to do that sort of thing.
Speaker 2: So that's my big picture thought, my overall takeaway. Did
Speaker 2: you have anything else to add or were you kind
Speaker 2: of in the same.
Speaker 1: I just think with Drake, so you mentioned there, like
Speaker 1: the offense as a whole was operational. There were a
Speaker 1: couple of minor things. There were some few more drops
Speaker 1: and I'd like to see and there were times I
Speaker 1: felt like the offensive line more the right than the
Speaker 1: left side. But there were times I felt like the
Speaker 1: offensive line wasn't great Drake may made it work. When
Speaker 1: the offensive line got beat. There probably were a couple
Speaker 1: of plays that could have been sacks, and whether it
Speaker 1: was him and not in the sense of like it
Speaker 1: would have been a sack in a game, sacks like
Speaker 1: we're not even going to count to the sack, because
Speaker 1: whether it was Drake getting the ball out of his
Speaker 1: hand quickly or moving in the pocket, it felt like
Speaker 1: he was able to adapt when the line was getting beat,
Speaker 1: which again wasn't to this worrying extent, but it happened.
Speaker 1: And I think as we talk about Drake going in
Speaker 1: a year two and can he be that guy that
Speaker 1: you think of when you think of a top three
Speaker 1: draft pick elevating the talent around you? How many how
Speaker 1: much have we talked about that in relation to the
Speaker 1: quarterback position here in New England, going back to the
Speaker 1: mac Jones ra right, elevating the talent around you. And
Speaker 1: there's going to be times and we can get to
Speaker 1: the offensive line depth because the starters I thought were fine.
Speaker 1: They weren't amazing, they were fine, they were solid. The
Speaker 1: backup tackles worry me. And it's the NFL. There's gonna
Speaker 1: be injuries, right, so there might be times when Drake
Speaker 1: May is going to have to elevate the offense, and
Speaker 1: I thought he elevated it yesterday, especially when it comes
Speaker 1: to the line and preventing pressures. At times. He was
Speaker 1: his own best pass protector yesterday.
Speaker 2: So I want to go throw for throw at Drake
Speaker 2: in a second. Yeah, I want to say one last thing.
Speaker 2: I think that there's when they hired Mike Rabel back
Speaker 2: in January, there was this hope that at the bare minimum,
Speaker 2: Mike Rabel was going to bring them back to the level, right,
Speaker 2: he was going to bring them back to a competent
Speaker 2: level of football that their offense especially just has not
Speaker 2: looked like the last two or three years, Like, can
Speaker 2: we get back to the sixteenth best offense in the league?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 2: And yesterday I felt like we were there. I felt
Speaker 2: like they were back to being at least a middle
Speaker 2: of the road NFL worthy, NFL caliber offense. Now to
Speaker 2: your point, to go from sixteenth to top ten to
Speaker 2: top five or whatever it ends up falling, that sort
Speaker 2: of becomes a question more about the quarterback. In my opinion,
Speaker 2: at least this year, I think the coaching has gotten
Speaker 2: them to a point of competency. I think that's what
Speaker 2: coaching does. It sets the floor of your team. Now,
Speaker 2: the talent on the roster is the question of can
Speaker 2: they get above just middle right? Can they go from
Speaker 2: middling to really good? And that I think will come
Speaker 2: down to the quarterback. The things that I saw from Drake,
Speaker 2: I'll just want to like go through a couple of
Speaker 2: the throws, because I thought some of the throws that
Speaker 2: he made yesterday were really just what's the word just excellent? Yeah,
Speaker 2: just high end place like really good. We would call them,
Speaker 2: in pro football focused parlance, big time throws dimes, right,
Speaker 2: that's what we were what we would call it. The
Speaker 2: first one that stood out to me was and I
Speaker 2: wish we had video of it to show you guys,
Speaker 2: but unfortunately I don't. I don't have that kind of poll.
Speaker 2: I can't. But he to your point earlier about like
Speaker 2: avoiding pressure, there was some pressure coming off the right side,
Speaker 2: off the right tackle, and he had two hands on
Speaker 2: the ball and he almost like you know when basketball
Speaker 2: players like swing through right, he like swung the ball
Speaker 2: through like dodge the pressure, then slid up in the
Speaker 2: pocket and then three quarters you know, throw like arm
Speaker 2: angle and dropped an off platform like all in one
Speaker 2: motion type of throw at a three quarters angle on
Speaker 2: a crossing route to Pop Douglas. That was just hip
Speaker 2: hop Douglas right in the chest, and I was just like,
Speaker 2: all right, you know that that's a good sign. This
Speaker 2: is early on in the practice. Then he on the
Speaker 2: next string of plays, he looked off the coverage and
Speaker 2: he kind of like pumped into the flat. I think
Speaker 2: it was might have been Trevon Henderson that was releasing
Speaker 2: in the flat, and they kind of had like a
Speaker 2: little bit of like a look like it could have
Speaker 2: been like a bubble or a screen into the flat,
Speaker 2: and he pumped the flat and the whole Washington defense
Speaker 2: went with the pump fake and then he came back
Speaker 2: to the middle of the field and I think he
Speaker 2: kind of no looked it to Austin Hooper over the
Speaker 2: middle of the field, and there was nobody within ten
Speaker 2: yards of Austin Hooper because of Drake, because of the
Speaker 2: coverage manipulation that he was doing. And when I saw
Speaker 2: those two throws from Drake, specifically the pocket movement and
Speaker 2: the off platform to Pop and then the throw with
Speaker 2: the manipulation to Hooper like that to me is when
Speaker 2: Drake is feeling it, like you can kind of tell
Speaker 2: there's a there's a swagger and like a playmaking ability
Speaker 2: to it that comes out where you can hell when
Speaker 2: he's sort of in that zone a little bit with
Speaker 2: what he's doing and he starts to do some of
Speaker 2: these like minutia quarterback stuff. That's not just how I'm
Speaker 2: sitting here throwing the football. I'm moving the pocket, I'm pumped,
Speaker 2: faking off coverage, and I'm throwing the ball you know
Speaker 2: where they're not. You know, I'm reading the field quickly
Speaker 2: and seeing things happen quickly. And then the throw that
Speaker 2: really I thought cemented the day for Drake May was
Speaker 2: actually a drop by Travon Henderson on a wheel route
Speaker 2: where Drake May dropped it right in the basket, but
Speaker 2: he actually made a throw just to be you know,
Speaker 2: not pick on Travon. He actually made a throw to
Speaker 2: Matt Collins as well that was right in the cover
Speaker 2: two hole, right in between the underneath corner and the
Speaker 2: safety over the top, like right in that honey hole
Speaker 2: along the sideline. And he made these like three or
Speaker 2: four rows in this band of maybe like six or
Speaker 2: seven passes. Yeah, and I was just like, all right,
Speaker 2: like this is he is he's dealing like, this is
Speaker 2: Drake May at his finest. That is that is me
Speaker 2: giving him his flowers. I want to get your taken
Speaker 2: and I want to talk about the pick, but let's
Speaker 2: give him his flowers first, because for the ninety five
Speaker 2: percent of the practice I thought he was announced. No.
Speaker 1: Like I said, I think the team as a whole
Speaker 1: was good. And we can get into some of the
Speaker 1: other individuals. I'm sure we will, but I think they
Speaker 1: were as good as they were because of Drake May.
Speaker 1: I think he elevated things more so the line than
Speaker 1: the receivers. The receivers did not help him out. Henderson
Speaker 1: had two drops, one of those was in sevens. Mac
Speaker 1: Hollins had a couple drops as well, but he elevated
Speaker 1: the group. He elevated the group doing some of the
Speaker 1: stuff you talked about and some of the stuff I
Speaker 1: talked about. And that's what the year two jump is, right, Like, Okay,
Speaker 1: last year he looked good in a bubble, didn't really
Speaker 1: amount to anything, but you saw a lot to like individually.
Speaker 1: Now it's about okay, can those individual traits actually translate
Speaker 1: to wins? And that means just making plays even if
Speaker 1: there's plays not there to be made, and not that
Speaker 1: there weren't plays to be made yesterday. But again, I
Speaker 1: think you throw, you throw Josh Dobbs out there, and
Speaker 1: no offense at Josh Dobbs. It's just like average quarterback,
Speaker 1: right replacement quarterback, you throw Josh Dobbs out there. I
Speaker 1: don't think we're gushing over the offense the way we are.
Speaker 1: I don't. I think, like the one to Austin Hooper
Speaker 1: that's not open without Drake, like that was created by
Speaker 1: Drake make.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, And I just thought, you know, he
Speaker 2: looked really good and that that portion of practice really
Speaker 2: for the vast majority, or even just little things like
Speaker 2: throwing with anticipation, like the back shoulder throw at kash
Speaker 2: On Booty. We actually do have video of it on
Speaker 2: our Patriots socials, and that balls out like, well before
Speaker 2: Booty he's.
Speaker 1: Still the route. Yeah, he's still very much in the
Speaker 1: in the early stages of the round.
Speaker 2: So when a quarterback is trusting it and he's seeing
Speaker 2: the field well and he's processing at the right speed,
Speaker 2: you see a lot of anticipatory throws, a lot of
Speaker 2: throws that are thrown before the receiver starts to break
Speaker 2: or before this receiver gets his eyes back to the quarterback,
Speaker 2: and that's when the offenses are at their most dangerous
Speaker 2: because you know that's the one they're the hardest to defend.
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you will, there's He's made quite a throw
Speaker 1: of the few of those timing sort of placement chemistry
Speaker 1: throws this summer. A bunch of Diggs, He's had a
Speaker 1: couple of Booty. It's obviously his timing's more advanced with
Speaker 1: some receivers than others, which is not necessarily surprising, right,
Speaker 1: He's been working with some of these guys a little
Speaker 1: bit longer than Diggs is just a dude. But like,
Speaker 1: I've been impressed where his chemistry is at with some
Speaker 1: of these main receivers at this stage. And that that
Speaker 1: Booty one you're talking about is a great example of
Speaker 1: like that's not something you meet somebody for the first time,
Speaker 1: you go out and you throw that, right, that is
Speaker 1: something that that's a throw you make because you and
Speaker 1: that one specific player, like two of them. It's not
Speaker 1: like him and any receiver drilling that. Him and Booty
Speaker 1: have drilled that over and over and over, so you know,
Speaker 1: he trusts Booty to be at the right place at
Speaker 1: the right time. Booty knows when and where the ball
Speaker 1: is going to be without having to look for it.
Speaker 1: Like that's that's what you want to see. That's how
Speaker 1: you develop an offense.
Speaker 2: So there are his flowers. That was his bouquet of
Speaker 2: roses at the feet for what he did yesterday, the
Speaker 2: interception at the end. I do want to break it
Speaker 2: down and talk about it. I think the biggest thing
Speaker 2: that I and I'm not in Drake May's head. This
Speaker 2: is just my read on it and based off of
Speaker 2: what he said after practice, I feel pretty good that
Speaker 2: this is basically what happened and you know, can talk
Speaker 2: about it like this. I think sometimes when he gets
Speaker 2: down there by the goal line, he gets a little
Speaker 2: bit uh excited, over zealous, right like so when he
Speaker 2: saw you know, Pop Douglas is working in the slot,
Speaker 2: and I want to get to Pop later in the show,
Speaker 2: where I thought was also a clear standout.
Speaker 1: Yesterday, best player on the field.
Speaker 2: Yes, So Pop Douglas gets open right off the line
Speaker 2: on a slant and he's open like he's going to
Speaker 2: walk into the end zone, and all Drake May has
Speaker 2: to do is put the ball on him. And I
Speaker 2: feel like Drake just got a little bit like, oh
Speaker 2: he's open, you know, like he just gets a little excited,
Speaker 2: and he didn't see out of the corner of his
Speaker 2: eye that Bobby Wagner was reading Drake's eyes. So all
Speaker 2: Drake may did was he caught the football, went right
Speaker 2: to Pop Douglas, and he just brought Bobby Wagner right
Speaker 2: to the passing lane. He brought him right to the party.
Speaker 2: And he said after practice that he needs to look
Speaker 2: Bobby Wagner off or maybe start left and then come
Speaker 2: back right, but just have some sort of eye manipulation
Speaker 2: involved in the process there to make sure that Bobby
Speaker 2: Wagner doesn't get there. Instead, what he said he tried
Speaker 2: to do is just throw it as hard as he
Speaker 2: could and basically throw it through Bobby Wagner. And when
Speaker 2: you play a really good player like like Wagner, you
Speaker 2: called him a future Hall of Famer. I think that's valid.
Speaker 2: I think that's that's fair debate. Probably not, but yeah,
Speaker 2: so Bobby Wagner just made a really good play on
Speaker 2: the football. With that being said, I think there is
Speaker 2: a conversation that certainly we bring up a lot on
Speaker 2: PU Andduce is the ringleader of this of just finishing
Speaker 2: and clutching late and having that ability to put the
Speaker 2: team over the top in those moments. And it's now
Speaker 2: it's practice. So I'm not gonna sit here and say
Speaker 2: it's the same as him failing to do that in
Speaker 2: the game. But we saw this last year and I
Speaker 2: looked it up real quick because I was just curious.
Speaker 2: No game winning drives or fourth quarter comebacks for Drake
Speaker 2: May last year. Jamean Daniels had four of them. I
Speaker 2: mean five, Well they say four. I don't know. I
Speaker 2: go buy Pro Football Reference. I don't know if it's
Speaker 2: four or five. Fine, four is what they have. Jamie
Speaker 2: Daniels had four of them. Drake May had zero at
Speaker 2: North Carolina. I feel like this was a similar conversation
Speaker 2: that they were having about Drake May where he looks
Speaker 2: like an All American or he looks like a franchise quarterback.
Speaker 2: Now at this level, from the eye test, you see it.
Speaker 2: You see the tools, you see the ability, you see
Speaker 2: the throwing ability in the in the shot making like
Speaker 2: you see, it's all right there for you to watch.
Speaker 2: But then when it comes down to it. You're in
Speaker 2: the fourth quarter and you look at the scoreboard and
Speaker 2: somehow his team is losing, right, And I feel like
Speaker 2: that happened quite a bit at North Carolina, especially the
Speaker 2: second year as a starter at North Carolina quite a bit.
Speaker 2: So you just hope, and I'm not saying that it
Speaker 2: necessarily is a pattern just yet in the NFL, because
Speaker 2: I think last year it's fair to hold it against
Speaker 2: him completely that they were in those positions. But you
Speaker 2: just hope that that's not gonna become a pattern at
Speaker 2: this level. And that's sort of the story, right, is
Speaker 2: that this looks the part looks great in shorts franchise quarterback,
Speaker 2: all the bells and whistles, but when it comes down
Speaker 2: to clutching late situations, they just don't get over the hump.
Speaker 2: And now I'm not saying that means they're gonna win
Speaker 2: four games. Maybe that means that they only win like
Speaker 2: eight or ninezer instead of ten to eleven.
Speaker 1: Playoff team look to get to get the playoffs, they're
Speaker 1: gonna to steal some games. Yeah, that usually means winning late. No,
Speaker 1: You're absolutely right, and we saw it in the end stadium,
Speaker 1: and he's got to be better late in those games. Now,
Speaker 1: being better in general will help with that. I think
Speaker 1: it's really starting and finishing. Like he's good in the middle.
Speaker 1: He's just got and if he starts better, you'll have
Speaker 1: less of these like late game situations. But that is
Speaker 1: like the next step for him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like it is. And I mean you
Speaker 2: knew his North Carolina career probably better than me, Like
Speaker 2: did you feel like that was the narrative about him
Speaker 2: at North Carolina too, because I remember in the draft
Speaker 2: that's talking about this a little bit.
Speaker 1: The second year more so, but also that program was
Speaker 1: that's kind of always been North Carolina, like even before
Speaker 1: Drake May And some programs are just you look at
Speaker 1: them at like Nebraska's another one. You look at Nebraska.
Speaker 1: If Nebraska's in a close game late, I don't care
Speaker 1: who's the quarterback, They're going to lose. That's just what
Speaker 1: they do. I think they had like eight one score
Speaker 1: losses last a couple of years ago something like that.
Speaker 1: I don't remember. They had some absurd stat about close losses.
Speaker 1: But like, North Carolina's just always sort of been one
Speaker 1: of those teams that you don't love in a close game,
Speaker 1: and that predates Drake May so hopefully kind of here
Speaker 1: that's off of him now. And also we'll see what
Speaker 1: Bill can do about that down there, because that's something
Speaker 1: we know Bill's not going to stand for. Just kind
Speaker 1: of on a tangent. But yeah, I guess that was
Speaker 1: a thing during his college career. But I and maybe
Speaker 1: this is just a college football fan and me I
Speaker 1: looked at it more of like that's North Carolina, that's
Speaker 1: what they do.
Speaker 2: I do wonder if that's something that you can coach,
Speaker 2: Like is that something Rabel can realistically because Rabel was
Speaker 2: a clutch player, and Rabel was a winning player. He's
Speaker 2: been a successful head coach with the tight Ends where
Speaker 2: they won a lot of these types of games that
Speaker 2: they probably shouldn't have won at times with Tennessee. Like
Speaker 2: can you instill that in a player? Not saying that
Speaker 2: it's not in there? Maybe it's more like like like
Speaker 2: Rabel just needs to kind of get it out of
Speaker 2: him more, you know, extent, Like you can't create that
Speaker 2: in somebody, like you're not just gonna turn him into
Speaker 2: Tom Brady, right, But.
Speaker 1: I do think there are ways to kind of drill
Speaker 1: it into him. And I think there's waste to coach
Speaker 1: around it too, which ideally you don't want to do
Speaker 1: with the quarterback position, but I think you can. There's
Speaker 1: been some quarterbacks who I'm trying to think of an
Speaker 1: example off the top of my head, who are like
Speaker 1: not super clutch in college, and.
Speaker 2: I don't think that that was really the narrative on Mahomes,
Speaker 2: Like I don't Mahomes at Texas Tech last.
Speaker 1: Homes was just like Mahomes wasn't like great at Texas Tech.
Speaker 1: He was.
Speaker 2: He was good, but he wasn't right, but he had
Speaker 2: he had good production at Texas Tech because of that
Speaker 2: offense in the style of.
Speaker 1: You to talk about like good production without winning. He
Speaker 1: was definitely one of those guys.
Speaker 2: I think that if you are a Patriots fan and
Speaker 2: you want to Now I'm not say Mahomes has what
Speaker 2: three super bowls, Like I'm not saying that Drake May
Speaker 2: is gonna win three super Bowls, But if you're a
Speaker 2: Patriots fan and you're hoping that that doesn't translate, that's
Speaker 2: one thing that that doesn't translate from college to the
Speaker 2: pros for Drake May. The active quarterback that I can
Speaker 2: think of that that was like that in college and
Speaker 2: overcame it in the pros is Mahomes.
Speaker 1: I'll give you another one, or it works in the reverse.
Speaker 1: Justin Fields is actually seen as a pretty clutch college quarterback.
Speaker 1: And I mean, I don't know how many close games
Speaker 1: he's in because he just hasn't been good, but I
Speaker 1: don't right like, he hasn't necessarily been in that spot.
Speaker 2: So all right, moving on, not a pretty impressive practice,
Speaker 2: I would say from Josh Dobbs, like, I just want
Speaker 2: to throw that out there, not that not that it
Speaker 2: matters that bit much in the grand scheme of things,
Speaker 2: but I just wanted to say that for the credit.
Speaker 1: Where credits do we do that?
Speaker 2: We talk about the whole roster, right you always get
Speaker 2: on me about talking about the whole team.
Speaker 1: That's fair.
Speaker 2: I'm covering the whole day once. But I thought that
Speaker 2: he had a nice practice himself. I got maybe the
Speaker 2: best throw that actually was completed was the slot fade
Speaker 2: to Matt Collins at the end of practice, Like that
Speaker 2: was probably the best best completion of the practice for
Speaker 2: either team that I saw, and it was a throw
Speaker 2: by Josh Dobbs, so credit to him. I want to
Speaker 2: talk about the offensive line. I was going to go
Speaker 2: receiver first, but I'm an offensive line guy, so we're
Speaker 2: going to go on offensive line first. I was really
Speaker 2: felt really good at coming out of the practice about
Speaker 2: the way that the starting five looked. Now it wasn't
Speaker 2: the full starting five. Morgan Moses continues to be a
Speaker 2: limited participant, as he has been pretty much all summer.
Speaker 2: I am I still am small sea concerned about that,
Speaker 2: but I understand like it's a plan, there's a there's
Speaker 2: a plan in mind, and Rabel has a plan for
Speaker 2: the Morgan Moses and it's year twelve and he's thirty four,
Speaker 2: and they're just trying to keep them healthy. It's I
Speaker 2: think Carlton Davis is in a similar boat. And when
Speaker 2: Week one rolls around against the Raiders, then Morgan Moses
Speaker 2: is going to be out there and right tackle. That's
Speaker 2: That's what I'm yeah, uh, that's what I'm holding out
Speaker 2: hope for. But really the focus yesterday was on the
Speaker 2: left side of the line.
Speaker 1: Let's see this though on Moses, Like, I'm not concerned
Speaker 1: injury wise. It's not like, oh, there's some secret injury
Speaker 1: they're hiding, and even if there is, he's generally played
Speaker 1: through injuries. In his career. Are you worried at all
Speaker 1: about you know, the five sets of eyes right see
Speaker 1: through the same set of that thing, the chemistry with
Speaker 1: the rest of the line. When when does he miss
Speaker 1: too much time that you because I mean they still
Speaker 1: have three preseason games and a bunch of practices left,
Speaker 1: But like, when do you start to worry he could
Speaker 1: be building chemistry with Drake in the line and he's
Speaker 1: missing that opportunity or are you there yet?
Speaker 2: I'm not there yet because I think the one advantage
Speaker 2: is like if it's a tackle, like they're more out
Speaker 2: on islands, then let's say the interior. I think it's
Speaker 2: it's more important in terms of seeing it through the
Speaker 2: same set of eyes with the three guys on the interior,
Speaker 2: because that's they're gonna see the stunts, the picks, the
Speaker 2: actions up front that defenses use to get guys free,
Speaker 2: Like a lot of that stuff happens in between the
Speaker 2: guards and not as much of it happens like when
Speaker 2: you're out a tackle, it's kind of just the guys
Speaker 2: out in front of you and you're just kind of
Speaker 2: dancing with the edge rusher. When you have guys coming
Speaker 2: through the a gaps that are blitzing, when you have stunts,
Speaker 2: when you have twists like those things, the games like
Speaker 2: that stuff all usually happens on the interior. So from
Speaker 2: that aspect, like, if it has to be anybody that's
Speaker 2: in and out of practice, I'd rather be a tackle
Speaker 2: than the guard, if that makes sense. With Moses, my
Speaker 2: concern more with him is that it's been better when
Speaker 2: he's practiced in full. It's been better of late, So
Speaker 2: I'm hoping that this is just a slow build in
Speaker 2: every aspect. But out of the shoot, I didn't think
Speaker 2: he looked great in team when he was out there.
Speaker 2: I thought he looked a little slow. But maybe that
Speaker 2: was him just kind of easing into it and getting
Speaker 2: his timing back and his rhythm back, because it's rhythmic
Speaker 2: position tackle. You know, you gotta you gotta get your
Speaker 2: feet right, you gotta get your cadence correct, you gotta
Speaker 2: come out of the stance at the right time and
Speaker 2: time up the snap count and like all that stuff.
Speaker 2: So maybe it's that is a slow burn in all
Speaker 2: fronts with Morgan Moses, which to your point, is not ideal.
Speaker 2: It's not ideal from from that stampo.
Speaker 1: Christ, Yeah, when I say, because I'm with you, I'm
Speaker 1: like little concerned about Morgan Moses. When I say I'm concerned,
Speaker 1: it's not like, oh my god, he's hurt, Like he's
Speaker 1: already hurt in the thirty four year old. He's banged
Speaker 1: up and he can't handle it. I'm not worried with doubt.
Speaker 1: I think when the time comes to be out there,
Speaker 1: he'll be out there. It's about him being on the
Speaker 1: same page as everybody and being ready. It's just about him,
Speaker 1: you know, getting ready for it. That there's a tipping
Speaker 1: point with rest days, and look, to be fair, they've
Speaker 1: given Carlton Davis a ton of rest days. I don't
Speaker 1: think in terms of a how do I phrase this
Speaker 1: because I don't want to minimize Carlton Davis is doing
Speaker 1: because it shouldn't be like Carlton Davis's assignment is week
Speaker 1: to we study this receiver, learn him, learn what he does,
Speaker 1: cover him. I don't know how much of that he's
Speaker 1: doing it practice. I don't know how deep Carlton Davis's
Speaker 1: assignments are in the playbook compared to maybe what Morgan
Speaker 1: Moses is doing. Right. Yeah, so Carlton Davis, I don't
Speaker 1: think like it hurts him as much missing practice time.
Speaker 1: Does that make sense? Like, I'm not saying that Carlton
Speaker 1: Davis isn't I.
Speaker 2: Feel no, I feel the same. I feel the same
Speaker 2: way about Gonzales. I feel the same way about both
Speaker 2: those corners. Like, as far as I'm concerned with Carlton
Speaker 2: Davis and Christian Gonzales Week one against the Raiders, you
Speaker 2: got to be out there, But until then you're on ice.
Speaker 1: What are they gaining? I guess in these practice it's
Speaker 1: what they stand to gain in these practices versus with
Speaker 1: Moses gains. I think Moses can gain more of these practices.
Speaker 1: I think it tackled in general, such as Moses. I
Speaker 1: think a tackle can gain more in this setting than
Speaker 1: a cornerback can, especially a veteran to a veteran. With Gonzalez,
Speaker 1: take all the time, Like yeah, we want to take
Speaker 1: all the time they need. I don't want to. You
Speaker 1: don't rush a star player like that back, especially for
Speaker 1: you know, not meaningful games. Speaking of which, did you
Speaker 1: have to like control yourself when Tatum walked out to practice.
Speaker 1: We'll talk without anything. I want to talk about great
Speaker 1: question of Drake made by the way good football talk.
Speaker 2: Listen as every once in a while as a team employee,
Speaker 2: I have to serve up a softball, all right, as.
Speaker 1: About the Duke Q and c rafies. Not a softball
Speaker 1: to those guys, haven't. That's the real deal.
Speaker 2: Okay, So I want to I want to stick on
Speaker 2: the topic of BND. Okay, h really quickly. I was
Speaker 2: I going to say, we'll get back to the corners
Speaker 2: and we can talk about that. Let's let's stick on
Speaker 2: the offensive line. So I think the most encouraging thing, uh,
Speaker 2: from this practice on overall was probably the play of
Speaker 2: the offensive line and how a competent they looked, at
Speaker 2: least the starting five. Will Campbell I thought really held
Speaker 2: his own in team. I really I think I saw
Speaker 2: I saw maybe one pressure that he allowed in team, uh.
Speaker 2: But for the most part, I thought he was really
Speaker 2: good in team. Now one on ones, Dietrich Wise and
Speaker 2: him kind of went back and forth, and there was
Speaker 2: some splitting of hairs of who won those.
Speaker 1: Reps pressure in team, because there was one where I
Speaker 1: thought Drake may stepped into it as much as he
Speaker 1: allowed the pressure.
Speaker 2: There was one where I thought he got beat around
Speaker 2: his edge pretty good.
Speaker 1: But we're talking about every ones.
Speaker 2: I didn't really think. I was watching the line pretty
Speaker 2: closely and I didn't really see much of it. There
Speaker 2: was another one where it looked like he went to
Speaker 2: go block the guy and then the rusher slanted inside,
Speaker 2: and then he kicked out and blocked the blitzer coming
Speaker 2: off the edge, and he left the inside rusher to
Speaker 2: treveon Henderson. But if you watched it, it looked like
Speaker 2: Will Campbell whiffed. But I actually think he realized like
Speaker 2: mid punch that that was not his guy, and so
Speaker 2: he went and got the other guy. But it looked
Speaker 2: in in you know, looked in the live viewing of it,
Speaker 2: that he whiffed on the block, But I don't think
Speaker 2: he actually did. And I actually, I actually been really
Speaker 2: encouraged about how well he picks up blitzes coming off
Speaker 2: of his edge. He's like, really good at that at
Speaker 2: seeing a post snap when a guy is coming off
Speaker 2: the edge and blitzing like a like a slot blitzer,
Speaker 2: a safety blitz is coming off the edge and sort
Speaker 2: of passing his guy off to the interior and going
Speaker 2: out and getting the blitzer. He's really good at that.
Speaker 2: I thought that he had a really nice block. I
Speaker 2: believe it was on Wise actually in the run game
Speaker 2: that sprung Travon Henderson for a nice gain. And I
Speaker 2: think they're going to consistently be able to stretch out
Speaker 2: that left side, whether it's on like a toss or
Speaker 2: outside zone or whatever the case may be, because they're
Speaker 2: gonna have two great athletes over there with him and Wilson.
Speaker 2: So if they're going to run the ball left, I
Speaker 2: expect it to be to the perimeter left. Now, hopefully
Speaker 2: that doesn't become too predictable, but that would be my guess.
Speaker 1: So I want to ask you something about Campbell because
Speaker 1: this is something that and you see this stuff better
Speaker 1: than me, but I feel like a big piece of
Speaker 1: growth for him through these first few weeks. Look, every tackle,
Speaker 1: every offensive line is going to get beat at some point.
Speaker 1: Even the greats will get beat. But what makes something
Speaker 1: that can make the greats the greats is if you
Speaker 1: get beat initially, can you recover and mitigate it and
Speaker 1: maybe get beat, but it wasn't a blowby, and you
Speaker 1: buy your quarterback or an extra second, or even you recover
Speaker 1: entirely that you win the rep where you should have
Speaker 1: gotten beat. I feel like with Will Campbell he was
Speaker 1: just when he was getting beat early in camp he
Speaker 1: was getting beat. That was it. It was clean, and
Speaker 1: he's getting beat less now. But I think the more
Speaker 1: encouraging thing for me is even when he does get beat,
Speaker 1: it feels like it's he's able to mitigate it now,
Speaker 1: whether that's just again buying that extra time or he
Speaker 1: had a rep yesterday. I don't remeber who was against,
Speaker 1: but he had a rep yesterday where it looked like
Speaker 1: he was beat. The guy got in his chest, started
Speaker 1: pushing them back. He just kind of sank his weight
Speaker 1: and basically gave the other guy like you want to
Speaker 1: go through me, fine, go through me, Like let's go.
Speaker 1: And he was just too strong for the guy to
Speaker 1: move him. So that's been the most encouraging thing for
Speaker 1: me for Campbell is I don't want to say, like,
Speaker 1: I know this sounds kind of dumb. Ohmencouraged because he's
Speaker 1: getting beat not his bed, but blah. But it's not that.
Speaker 1: It's that when he loses initially, right when the first
Speaker 1: step goes to the defender, the rep's not over because
Speaker 1: he's doing a better job, especially on that outside in
Speaker 1: Wise tried to get him on the outside in yesterday,
Speaker 1: I think got half a step on him, and Campbell
Speaker 1: kind of registered it, reset himself, and he I think
Speaker 1: he came back and he ultimately won the rep. Even
Speaker 1: though Wise had the first half step on him. He
Speaker 1: wasn't doing that at the beginning of camp, and when
Speaker 1: he was getting beat, he was just getting beat. And
Speaker 1: I feel like his recovery ability has gotten a lot
Speaker 1: better very quickly.
Speaker 2: So you hit the nail on the head. Stn't sell yourself.
Speaker 2: Sure you saw it right. The biggest thing that I
Speaker 2: see with Will Campbell when I watch him in pass
Speaker 2: pro is he because of his length, and I don't
Speaker 2: want to make it.
Speaker 1: You don't want to go there. It becomes a whole thing.
Speaker 2: But it's really what it is. He is an aggressive setter.
Speaker 2: So some guys and I say this all I feel
Speaker 2: like a broken record, and I apologize, but it's just
Speaker 2: this is what it really is, the bottom line of this.
Speaker 2: Some guys like Trent Brown is always the poster child
Speaker 2: for me of this, are so freaking big that they
Speaker 2: can just sit back in their chair and catch guys.
Speaker 2: They're just gonna sit back, They're gonna clipse the quarterback
Speaker 2: and they're gonna let him come to me because they
Speaker 2: can't go through me. I'm too big, they can't go
Speaker 2: through me. So I'm just gonna keep him at my
Speaker 2: fingertips and I'm gonna let him come to me, and
Speaker 2: I'm gonna sit back in my chair and I'm gonna
Speaker 2: I'm gonna catch him like a baseball catcher would like
Speaker 2: I'm literally gonna catch him right. But with Will Campbell,
Speaker 2: because of his length, if he does if he tries
Speaker 2: to sit back and be patient and let them come
Speaker 2: to him, they're going to consistently establish first contact because
Speaker 2: their arms are longer than his arms.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: In order to combat that, what Will Campbell does at
Speaker 2: times is he aggressively goes out and he tries to
Speaker 2: be the be the aggressor in the rep. The issue
Speaker 2: with being the aggressor in the rep as a tackle
Speaker 2: is that when you whiff on the punch, you get
Speaker 2: those ugly misses, you get the blowbys because you're overaggressive
Speaker 2: and you're getting your weight is getting distributed, you know,
Speaker 2: off balance, and then you're punching and then if you
Speaker 2: don't land your punch, then he's going to blow right
Speaker 2: by you. And I have so he has to figure
Speaker 2: this out in terms of and it's on him, and
Speaker 2: I know that the coaches are helping him with it too,
Speaker 2: to strike that balance of playing within his limitation but
Speaker 2: also understanding that you can still be a little bit
Speaker 2: more patient than what he has been at times to
Speaker 2: avoid those blowbys. Jared Wilson, on the other hand, I
Speaker 2: think is fantastic at recovery when he missus his initial punch.
Speaker 2: I think that's still something that Campbell is maybe trying
Speaker 2: to work on a little bit, is how do I
Speaker 2: recover and keep my base and keep my.
Speaker 1: Better at it.
Speaker 2: I think he just gotten better at it, and I
Speaker 2: think that that I don't think that anything has truly
Speaker 2: changed other than him finding out what works, like finding
Speaker 2: that balance and striking that cord of how exactly am
Speaker 2: I going to play at this level with what well,
Speaker 2: you can call him thirty three inch arms with thirty
Speaker 2: three inch but this whole can of worms.
Speaker 1: They are the opening the worms is like suggesting you're
Speaker 1: lying they are thirty three inch arms. Say it with
Speaker 1: your chest because it is a fact. The NFL got
Speaker 1: the combine measurement wrong.
Speaker 2: Here we go again. How do I play with that
Speaker 2: within that framework? And I think he has gotten better
Speaker 2: at it, and I'm encouraged by what I've seen in
Speaker 2: that respect. But I think that's his biggest issue is
Speaker 2: when he is because of the way that he plays
Speaker 2: the position, the loss has become ugly because of the
Speaker 2: fact that he's setting so aggressively a lot of the time.
Speaker 2: It's like a vertical set too, which is like inherently
Speaker 2: a hit or miss thing. And like the best vertical
Speaker 2: setters of all time are like Joe Thomas and like
Speaker 2: the great Tackles right like they they were able to
Speaker 2: master the art of the vertical set and be able
Speaker 2: to do that consistently. And Joe Thomas didn't have quite
Speaker 2: as short arms as Will Campbell, but he was also
Speaker 2: on the shorter side of the spectrum in terms of
Speaker 2: arm length as well, so vertical setting was really important
Speaker 2: for him to master. So that's a technical aspect of
Speaker 2: it all. I thought you you to explained it great.
Speaker 2: I think that Will Campbell's getting better at it. I've
Speaker 2: seen him sort of also like anticipate those inside moves
Speaker 2: a little bit more because he knows that other opponents
Speaker 2: are going to try to attack that weakness, and so
Speaker 2: he's he's doing a little bit of a better job
Speaker 2: of sliding his feet and recovering to that inside move.
Speaker 2: I keep saying the same thing about Campbell. If I
Speaker 2: was him, I would just continue to trust your feet
Speaker 2: like you have. He has really smooth, great agility. He's
Speaker 2: a really good athlete. He's got great foot speed. Like,
Speaker 2: just continue to trust that you can move your feet
Speaker 2: instead of punching and reaching and over extending, just keep
Speaker 2: your base and just slide, you know, like a basketball
Speaker 2: player defending Jason Tatum out on the perimeter, right, just
Speaker 2: slide your feet and stay in front of him that way.
Speaker 2: I think he's he's growing, like he's getting better at that,
Speaker 2: because this was the same thing at LSU. Like at LSU,
Speaker 2: you know, there was some ugly misses, Like there was
Speaker 2: some ugly whiffs in pass protection on his tape in
Speaker 2: college that a lot of people that were Will Campbell
Speaker 2: naysayers or detractors, you know, would cherry pick just likely
Speaker 2: would cherry pick the good reps right, and he they
Speaker 2: would cherry pick these reps. So it's a it's a
Speaker 2: work in progress, but I think he's getting a little
Speaker 2: bit better at it. And I thought, again, well, I
Speaker 2: think it's interesting about him, and then I want to
Speaker 2: move on to Wilson. He is so much better in
Speaker 2: team than he is in one on ones. Campbell, Yeah, like,
Speaker 2: Campbell's so much better in team.
Speaker 1: Say this is me just kind of I don't know, uh,
Speaker 1: making excuses for Campbell or people Will Campbell fanboy or whatever.
Speaker 1: I'm kind of disillusioned with offensive defensive line one on
Speaker 1: ones in this camp because so many times tackles or
Speaker 1: not just tackles. Everybody has been beaten with inside moves
Speaker 1: where it's like, all right, if you go that far inside,
Speaker 1: like yeah, you were able to get around him. If
Speaker 1: you go that far inside in the game, the guard's
Speaker 1: gonna be there, and you're just gonna run into the guard.
Speaker 1: Like I don't know, I feel like there's been too
Speaker 1: many of those in this camp for me, and maybe
Speaker 1: that was always the case. I'm watching a closer now
Speaker 1: because of Campbell. This is not just a Will Campbell take.
Speaker 1: I mean I've always felt this way about like the
Speaker 1: wide receiver corner, right, it's kind of the same thing.
Speaker 1: We talk about those all the time, where it's like.
Speaker 2: The offensive line. D line ones are definitely more translatable
Speaker 2: to game.
Speaker 1: They're more translatable, but again, like if you go all
Speaker 1: the way around inside, yeah, you're gonna run into the guard,
Speaker 1: Like that space isn't there. Now if they actually, like
Speaker 1: so when they do the three on threes, because they
Speaker 1: do in the same setting, but they do three on
Speaker 1: three instead of one on one, that one I like
Speaker 1: that one. I can buy a little more. Or if
Speaker 1: they did the one on one and the like the
Speaker 1: guard actually stood there like where he'd stand instead of
Speaker 1: sort of getting out of the way, Like I don't know,
Speaker 1: it's kind of like the one on ones where it's like,
Speaker 1: all right, yeah, the wide receiver toasted the corner, but
Speaker 1: the corner was sitting underneath he went over the top
Speaker 1: in the game, there's a safety there, and that that's
Speaker 1: not actually like applicable. I just feel like there's been
Speaker 1: some of those moments.
Speaker 2: Absolutely. I think the best thing about one on ones
Speaker 2: is just working on technique and working on Oh I'm sure,
Speaker 2: but my point is is, like we chart wins and
Speaker 2: losses with one on ones, where I think more like
Speaker 2: when you practice them as a player, it's more important
Speaker 2: of like there's like this thing that I need to
Speaker 2: work on, and so I'm going to work on it. Now.
Speaker 1: When I say I'm disillusioned, I mean as an evaluation tour,
Speaker 1: not on the whole exercise itself value. I was just explaining, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I just like, again i'd weigh eleven on a lie.
Speaker 1: I always wait eleven on eleven more. But I'm like
Speaker 1: even the seven on sevens in this camp have just
Speaker 1: been like, I get why they do them, and they're
Speaker 1: important to do, and I understand that my evaluation is
Speaker 1: based almost exclusively in eleven's I'm really not looking at
Speaker 1: much else of what goes on the one thing. I'll
Speaker 1: look at one on one just like just play power, right,
Speaker 1: can you just physically right? Anchor?
Speaker 2: So with Jared Wilson, I want to talk about him
Speaker 2: a little bit. I just continue to just be wowed
Speaker 2: by Jared Wilson, like he's just as ken Kitten Wallace,
Speaker 2: but he's just really freaking good and you see that and.
Speaker 1: Outl look, that's not exactly what Kadon Wallace say.
Speaker 2: I know, but I have to be a little bit
Speaker 2: more PG than that. I got him to it a
Speaker 2: little bit with Paul about this the other day on
Speaker 2: PU because I was already ready to annoy Jared Wilson
Speaker 2: as an NFL starter and just be like done with it, right,
Speaker 2: and he's, you know, let's wait and see, let's see
Speaker 2: what the whole season looks like, and all that kind
Speaker 2: of stuff. And I suppose that is fair. But when
Speaker 2: you're you know, going up against Doron Pain, you know,
Speaker 2: in a joint practice, and Doron Pain tries to like
Speaker 2: speed the power bowl and just like go right into
Speaker 2: your chest and Jared Wilson just stops some stone cold
Speaker 2: and like doesn't move an inch. Like it's hard to
Speaker 2: not be like this is this is guy can play right,
Speaker 2: Like this guy is pretty right freaking good. As Caden
Speaker 2: Wallace said, you talked a lot about, or we talked
Speaker 2: a lot about and you brought it up with Campbell.
Speaker 2: The recovery talent that that, to me is Jared Wilson's
Speaker 2: best trade. His ability to keep his feet and keep
Speaker 2: his base, uh and then refit the hands like after
Speaker 2: if his initial punch gets swatted, because a lot of
Speaker 2: uh what I see a lot with pass rushers in
Speaker 2: the one on ones especially, they try to swat his
Speaker 2: hands out of the way, like two hands wipe and
Speaker 2: like they'll swat his hands and he just has his
Speaker 2: ability to just like, be patient, keep his bass about him,
Speaker 2: move his feet to recover, and then refit the hands
Speaker 2: on back underneath the shoulder blades or you know, the
Speaker 2: the chest pad, and like he just does that and
Speaker 2: just gets his hands underneath the guy and wins the rep.
Speaker 2: And it's it's incredible to watch a rookie. It's not
Speaker 2: so much like like the movement, Like the movement's obviously incredible,
Speaker 2: but it's the it's the hand fighting to me, like
Speaker 2: the chess match of it. He thinks it like he can.
Speaker 2: He's already processing the game at a really high level
Speaker 2: that is beyond what most rookies, especially with his little experience,
Speaker 2: do at this level. And I wonder when I was
Speaker 2: talking to his coaches in Duke Mannyweather when I wrote
Speaker 2: the feature about him after the draft, Duke pointed out
Speaker 2: a really good thing that I don't know if we
Speaker 2: put enough stock into think about the the defensive tackles
Speaker 2: in Georgia practice that Jared Wilson had faced on this
Speaker 2: scout team. So he was on the scout team the
Speaker 2: first two years that he was at Georgia, and he
Speaker 2: was facing the starting defense for Georgia in practice every
Speaker 2: single day.
Speaker 1: I think, don't people bring this up with Patrick's or
Speaker 1: tannat Alabama, probably with like the receivers that he faced.
Speaker 2: So he's going up against Jalen Carter and Jordan Davis
Speaker 2: and like all these stud Georgia defensive tackles that we've
Speaker 2: seen come out of the draft the last couple of years.
Speaker 2: So he really, even though he wasn't game experienced at Georgia,
Speaker 2: he was kind of like battle tested in a lot
Speaker 2: of ways from those practices. And I see that, like
Speaker 2: I see him being wise beyond his years and those respects.
Speaker 2: So I, Paul, I don't know how it's gonna look
Speaker 2: for seventeen games, right, we might be getting ahead of
Speaker 2: ourselves a little bit of putting Jared Wilson into the
Speaker 2: Patriots Hall fam Like I heard that they chiseled a
Speaker 2: statue that's going to go right next to Brady's statue
Speaker 2: that they're going to unveil tomorrow night of Campbell and
Speaker 2: Jared Wilson. But Jared Wilson, I just have been blown
Speaker 2: away by how cerebral and like advanced he is as
Speaker 2: a blocker for this point in his career, and how
Speaker 2: young he is. He's like twenty two years old and
Speaker 2: he's already got all these nuances to the position down.
Speaker 2: So I'm really impressed with Wilson. Continued to be thought
Speaker 2: he was good yesterday. The one guy that I thought
Speaker 2: had a little bit of a rough practice was Garrett
Speaker 2: Bradberry at center.
Speaker 1: And he was rotating too.
Speaker 2: This is becoming a little bit of a competition, I
Speaker 2: would say, between him and Ben Brown. And I'm really
Speaker 2: curious to see. We won't really probably won't really get
Speaker 2: a feel for this tomorrow night in the preseason game,
Speaker 2: but once we get into the joint practices next week
Speaker 2: in Minnesota or I'll be with Deuce next week, that
Speaker 2: is going to be really interesting to see if they
Speaker 2: start cutting into Garrett Bradberry's starter reps at center with
Speaker 2: Ben Brown and at what point I know you don't
Speaker 2: want to keep and I'm with you on the whole
Speaker 2: shuffling with the rookies and stuff like that. I think
Speaker 2: at this point, Jared Wilson's probably locked into left guard
Speaker 2: and that's where they're gonna play him. But is there
Speaker 2: any well, do you think about it right moving him
Speaker 2: over one spot if it really goes south with Bradbury.
Speaker 1: Do you think they locked Jared Wilson at center at
Speaker 1: left guard so early because they believe that's his best position,
Speaker 1: because they didn't trust him at center because remember he
Speaker 1: had a couple of bad snaps there.
Speaker 2: I think it's a combination of the I think they
Speaker 2: like the experience that Bradbury brings to center that Wilson
Speaker 2: obviously wouldn't. Yeah, I think it helps a young quarterback
Speaker 2: to have an experience center, and I think that's the thought.
Speaker 2: But if Bradbury can't hold up, he can't hold on.
Speaker 1: So I'm still where I'm at, where I've been at
Speaker 1: with one in dentdum. If you believe Jared Wilson's your
Speaker 1: long term center, I don't see a ton of value
Speaker 1: in playing him at left guard this year. Like if
Speaker 1: you believe he's a long term center and like him
Speaker 1: and Bradbury are essentially a wash, or he's better than Bradbury, right,
Speaker 1: I don't see a ton of value in playing him
Speaker 1: at left guard this year just to get Bradbury in
Speaker 1: there for the veteran Like, like, Wilson's a smart guy,
Speaker 1: he'll learn, he'll pick it up. I don't necessarily worry
Speaker 1: about that. Also, you can probably get a veteran in
Speaker 1: at left guard who can help him. The one addendum
Speaker 1: is if he can't snap the ball, he can't snap
Speaker 1: the ball. If you can't get it back to the quarterback,
Speaker 1: you can't play center. I don't care who you are, right, So,
Speaker 1: if they're worried about his snaps, leave mcguard and maybe
Speaker 1: maybe leave mcgard long term at that point, because he
Speaker 1: hasn't been working on his snaps now that he's been
Speaker 1: at the guard so much so he hasn't even really
Speaker 1: a chance to work on that, which gets to the
Speaker 1: development thing.
Speaker 2: But think the advantage of playing him as a rookie
Speaker 2: at guard with the still with the long term plan
Speaker 2: of him. Yeah, playing center is just getting the game experience.
Speaker 1: Yes, he's still gonna have to learn center.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you're but you're still getting in game experience
Speaker 2: and you're still blocking.
Speaker 1: You do that at center too.
Speaker 2: Right, But at center you have you brought up snapping.
Speaker 2: But then there's also the mental.
Speaker 1: Ass right, So he's gonna have to learn that eventually.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: I'd rather learn it sooner and just get accustomed to it.
Speaker 2: That's fair. I just think that as a rookie.
Speaker 1: But if he can't snap the ball. He can't snap
Speaker 1: the ball.
Speaker 2: I just wonder if the thought process is for his
Speaker 2: rookie year at left guard, he's going to have a
Speaker 2: gap or a guy in front of him. You just
Speaker 2: block that dude, And it's just it's a one one line.
Speaker 2: I'm thinking right like, you're not thinking about, Oh who's
Speaker 2: the mic? Oh who is this blitz coming from? Are
Speaker 2: we in the right protection? Are we in the right
Speaker 2: run fit? Are we like we're not thinking about it.
Speaker 2: We're not thinking about snapping. We're literally just taking our
Speaker 2: gap or we're taking our man.
Speaker 1: And what are you doing? Like, I don't know. We
Speaker 1: don't need to get ahead of the off season. But
Speaker 1: just like I think, if you think he's a center,
Speaker 1: playmate center. If you think he's a guard, playment guard.
Speaker 1: If he can't snap the ball, he's probably a guard.
Speaker 1: If you think he can't snap the ball and it
Speaker 1: was just rough, you gotta gi him opportunities to work
Speaker 1: on it and get better. That's where I'm out with it.
Speaker 1: So with Bradbury, I said this, like, I don't I
Speaker 1: think Ben Brown's a fine player if he's your fifth
Speaker 1: best offensive lineman, and we could argue whether he would
Speaker 1: or wouldn't be in this alignment. If Ben Brown's your
Speaker 1: fifth best offensive lineman, you're okay, You're okay. You're not great,
Speaker 1: but you're okay, You're fine. He'll he'll do enough for you.
Speaker 1: I think I think Garrett Bradbury can be that guy too.
Speaker 1: I think he was that guy took He's taking a
Speaker 1: step back the last two years if he keeps back tracking.
Speaker 1: And Ben Brown's a young guy. Last year was his
Speaker 1: first year of experience, so he comes in now the
Speaker 1: whole of the year of his belt. I've been telling
Speaker 1: you guys not to sleep on Ben Brown. Like I
Speaker 1: would be okay if Ben Brown's a week one starting center.
Speaker 1: I'd rather be Jared Wilson, but I'd be okay if
Speaker 1: it's Ben Brown.
Speaker 2: I like Ben Brown's size. I think that's the big
Speaker 2: thing that stands out to him is that he's a
Speaker 2: bigger center compared to brad Berry. So he just takes
Speaker 2: up more space and he's harder to move and all
Speaker 2: that good stuff. And that alone at a position like
Speaker 2: center can be helpful just because it's really that's what
Speaker 2: it is, right, Like it's just don't get pressed back
Speaker 2: into the pocket, right And so if he can do that,
Speaker 2: then that's helpful now. But Bradberry specifically, I just saw
Speaker 2: him and Eddie Goldman. I tried, I had to look
Speaker 2: it up. I forgot who the freaking commander's nose tackles.
Speaker 2: But Eddie Goldman's like a veteran nose tackle. He's a solid,
Speaker 2: rotational run stuffer, exactly what you think of in your
Speaker 2: prototypical NFL NOS tackle. And I just thought in one
Speaker 2: on ones and then a little bit in team you
Speaker 2: just see brad Berry on skates like you see him
Speaker 2: trying to your point earlier, like trying to put his
Speaker 2: feet in the ground and anchor. And it's not that
Speaker 2: he's losing these reps in a hurry. It's that after
Speaker 2: like the second or third step, he starts to get
Speaker 2: pushed back and starts to strain and isn't able to
Speaker 2: put his feet in the ground and drop anchor. That's
Speaker 2: the concern with him now. On the one hand, like
Speaker 2: it's I don't see him getting like blown by in
Speaker 2: pass protection, you don't really get blown by the center,
Speaker 2: but he's getting overpowered, which is center like if you
Speaker 2: can't if he can't take the nose tackle and put
Speaker 2: his feet in the ground and dig in and anchor
Speaker 2: against NFL caliber nose tackles. Then it's hard to survive
Speaker 2: that center with That.
Speaker 1: Goes back to my point about the one on ones,
Speaker 1: like you can't really run around a center. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: not something if that other people screwed up, right, right,
Speaker 1: So I will say one more thing on Ben Brown though. Yep,
Speaker 1: and we haven't even mentioned cole Strange at this point.
Speaker 1: Them playing Ben Brown at guard is not good news
Speaker 1: for Cole Strange because what this is gonna come down to,
Speaker 1: Evan if we can do a little mini roster projection
Speaker 1: sort of thing here. Yeah, there's kind of been a
Speaker 1: clear line of demarcation between the linemen. They're gonna keep
Speaker 1: in the linemen they aren't gonna keep right, So you're
Speaker 1: starting five. Everybody's healthy. Campbell, Moses Wilson own Wen now
Speaker 1: and will say Bradbury for now, right, So that's your
Speaker 1: starting five. They're gonna keep Marcus Bryant the way they've
Speaker 1: been using him, encouraged by Marcus Bryant. Uh, They're gonna
Speaker 1: keep Marx Brant the way they've us him. They're gona
Speaker 1: keep Kaden Wallace the way they've been using him. It's
Speaker 1: either gonna be Demontrey Jacobs or maybe they go out
Speaker 1: and they get a true left tackle during waivers because
Speaker 1: they don't have a real backup left tackle right now.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's Marcus Bryant. Maybe it's not tvd Well he's
Speaker 1: has he even repped with the second unit.
Speaker 2: Yeah no, but I'm just saying left tackle like I am.
Speaker 2: I'm with everybody that he can.
Speaker 1: Out of sight, out of mind, can't make a club
Speaker 1: from the top or Derek Fine. So they're gonna keep
Speaker 1: the left tackle TBD, Demantre Jacobs, Vederian Lowe a waiver
Speaker 1: signing something.
Speaker 2: I think you need. You only need one of those
Speaker 2: two guys. I don't think you need both because I
Speaker 2: think a point Marcus Brant enough that he's he makes it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so maybe this change is my take, But Campbell,
Speaker 1: Moses Wilson, and WHENU Bradbury, Bryant, Caden Wallace. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: still think they're keeping another tackle. That's eight, So now
Speaker 1: you're at nine. It's Ben. It's basically Ben Brown and
Speaker 1: Cole Strange for the last spot in my mind, and
Speaker 1: I the advantage Cole Strange had in that matchup is
Speaker 1: Ben Brown was exclusively a center and Cole Strange maybe
Speaker 1: it wasn't a great center, but he played it and
Speaker 1: he could play garden center. Well, now if Ben Brown
Speaker 1: can also play garden center and they're both left guard
Speaker 1: center highbrids, now it's just a sprint to the finish.
Speaker 1: Who's a better player? Am I you? Ben Brown? Am
Speaker 1: I wrong?
Speaker 2: No? But that's just such a tough I.
Speaker 1: Want to pick on him. But like when I say,
Speaker 1: who's a better player, who's been better in this camp
Speaker 1: so far?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Be close.
Speaker 2: I thought Cold Strange had a rough day yesterday.
Speaker 1: It's close, and I don't think that that. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm not slamming that shut. Maybe Cole Strange comes out
Speaker 1: and it is awesome tomorrow and we're we're reopening the conversation.
Speaker 1: But the advantage Cole straight Strange had was positional versatility. Right,
Speaker 1: Maybe Brown, Maybe Ben Brown can't play guard, maybe sucks
Speaker 1: at it, and then that changes it.
Speaker 2: But like he's got the body type.
Speaker 1: If he comes out here tomorrow, Ben Brown plays a
Speaker 1: really good left guard. I mean, are you keeping Cole
Speaker 1: Strange as a ninth lineman?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 1: Right, So that's kind of an And this is for
Speaker 1: like this show. Take right, Ben Brown getting reps pack
Speaker 1: up left guard is actually kind of a big deal
Speaker 1: when it comes to the roster because it puts Cole
Speaker 1: Strange on the bubble where otherwise he might not have
Speaker 1: been there.
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, I'm totally with you on that.
Speaker 1: I guess the caveat would be the same thing I
Speaker 1: said for Jared Wilson. If Ben Brown outright wins the
Speaker 1: center job and Garrett Bradbury doesn't want to be here
Speaker 1: as a backup, well now Cole Strange is your backup center.
Speaker 1: So Garrett Bradbury is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I know what you meant. I'm with you
Speaker 2: one hundred percent with that. That is exactly how I
Speaker 2: took the Ben Brown at left guard thing I practice
Speaker 2: the other day was they're trying to see if he
Speaker 2: can play guard too, because if you're going to make
Speaker 2: the team as a backup, and especially if you're going
Speaker 2: to be active on game day as a top interior backup,
Speaker 2: you have to be able to play all three positions. Yeah,
Speaker 2: because normally you're not going to have two backup interior
Speaker 2: offensive lineman active on game day. Normally they just go
Speaker 2: with one. So if they're going to do that, then
Speaker 2: you have to be able to play all three spots.
Speaker 2: So they're trying to see if Ben Brown can play
Speaker 2: guard so that if he's the top backup on game day,
Speaker 2: they know that he can play all three and even if.
Speaker 1: They have too, Like I think they're going to have
Speaker 1: this weird setup where Cayden Wallace is going to be
Speaker 1: like a backup right guard, right tackle.
Speaker 2: I actually think that that's a great idea for Caden Wallace,
Speaker 2: and I know that we all sort of thought because
Speaker 2: of where he was drafted, you hope that he could
Speaker 2: become a starter. But if you drafted like a two
Speaker 2: position backup that's or a top backup at two different positions,
Speaker 2: and he ends up being like a guard tackle flex
Speaker 2: who's really a right side player primarily, it's not ideal
Speaker 2: for a top one hundred pick, but it's not the
Speaker 2: worst case scenario. At least at least you got like
Speaker 2: a good like sixth or seventh offensive lineman out of
Speaker 2: the pick. I could live with it. I could live
Speaker 2: with it. It wasn't like he was drafted fourth overall like
Speaker 2: Will Campbell, right like, you can live with that being
Speaker 2: Kayden Wallace's career path. I want to talk about Marcus
Speaker 2: Bryan because I'm I'm getting more and more encouraged about
Speaker 2: Marcus Brian. I'm gonna give this take to so I'm
Speaker 2: gonna give this take today and then tomorrow he's gonna
Speaker 2: play a ton in the preseason game. We'll see how
Speaker 2: it goes. How about that, because we'll see like this,
Speaker 2: he's gonna play a ton tomorrow. We know that all
Speaker 2: these rookies are probably gonna play a little bit. Uh,
Speaker 2: and especially the back of the draft rookies like Marcus
Speaker 2: Bryan is drafted in the seventh round. I expect to
Speaker 2: see a lot of him, and I'm excited to see
Speaker 2: what it looks like on tape because I feel like
Speaker 2: his past protection has been pretty decent when he's out
Speaker 2: there at right tackle. The thing that I like so
Speaker 2: much about Marcus Bryan is his flexibility. We're just talking
Speaker 2: about this with the guards. He played left tackle in
Speaker 2: college opposite arm On Membu at Missouri, and now they're
Speaker 2: training him to play right tackle. So we know he.
Speaker 1: Started at right tackle for a year and a half
Speaker 1: in college at SMU before transferred.
Speaker 2: So we know he can play ball. He might be
Speaker 2: a true swing tackle and if he's a true swing tackle.
Speaker 2: That's a home run pick.
Speaker 1: That's tremendous value.
Speaker 2: Yeah, have you drafted a swing tackle if you drafted
Speaker 2: the next likely Adrian Waddle? You know I loved in
Speaker 2: the seventh round. Uh great pick. Yeah, great pick. And
Speaker 2: I'm hoping that that's what they got out of Marcus Briant.
Speaker 2: But you thought he had a little bit of a
Speaker 2: rough day yesterday.
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, I thought he got blown by a couple
Speaker 1: of times. That I mean, I thought he got blown
Speaker 1: by a couple times. Demontre Jacobs didn't have a good
Speaker 1: day either. I just thought the backup tackles as a
Speaker 1: whole just and I'm worried about their tackle depth overall.
Speaker 2: Well, that's why I'm worried about it too, And that's
Speaker 2: why I'm sort of hoping that this thing with Marcus
Speaker 2: Bryant six because he's he looks to me, just based
Speaker 2: off the practices, I think he's already uh cleared Demontree Jacobs, Yes,
Speaker 2: which I understand that's not the bar, but for a backup.
Speaker 1: That is kind of Yes, he's the top backup. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he drafted him to be your backup tackle. He's cleared
Speaker 1: the Yeah, he's a rookie, and there's inherent unknowns that
Speaker 1: come with that and after him, especially on the left side,
Speaker 1: because when they drafted him, we all thought he was
Speaker 1: the right tackle. Yep, right, we all thought, all right,
Speaker 1: maybe he's a long term project behind Morgan Moses, maybe
Speaker 1: he becomes that backup swing tackle. But like he profiles
Speaker 1: like a right tackle in the Patriots system. So you
Speaker 1: look at that and it's like, okay, who's so who
Speaker 1: who like Evan today? Who's their backup left tackle?
Speaker 2: I still think it's probably ve Darien Lowe And okay, he's.
Speaker 1: The guy who's done three practices all with the third team. Yeah,
Speaker 1: who wasn't good last year?
Speaker 2: He was not good last year.
Speaker 1: Right, So they don't have a backup left tackle. They don't.
Speaker 1: This is but this comes that's Bryant. That's great. After that,
Speaker 1: that pipeline drives it like sure, but they can still play.
Speaker 2: But I think the one thing I would just say
Speaker 2: that to kind of play Devil's advocate to that, how
Speaker 2: many teams have four good tackles?
Speaker 1: All right, that's fair.
Speaker 2: How many teams have two good tackles?
Speaker 1: Very few? But I just when you have a thirty
Speaker 1: four year old on one side and a rookie on
Speaker 1: the other.
Speaker 2: It's a fair concern. But I would say that that
Speaker 2: is my concern with the entire team.
Speaker 1: If Marcus Bryant, yeah, I have depth concern. He's about
Speaker 1: a lot of positions.
Speaker 2: That's fair.
Speaker 1: If Marcus Bryant can be like Adrian Waddell, I'm with you, like, great,
Speaker 1: that'd be great, that would be excellent, that would be okay.
Speaker 1: If you need him to spot start for Morgan Moses
Speaker 1: in a couple of games, great, You know he can
Speaker 1: fill in on both sides whenever you need him. He
Speaker 1: allows you to carry You don't have to carry four tackles,
Speaker 1: you can just carry three and really like you will
Speaker 1: still have a backup right tackling Kyan Wallace, even if
Speaker 1: he's counted as a guard, so you're gonna have three
Speaker 1: and a half tackles, which would be fine. He just
Speaker 1: needs to be able to play a little bit on
Speaker 1: the left side.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there you go the whole all right.
Speaker 1: Well, you know if Arma on Memmick couldn't be moved
Speaker 1: and he's so good at right, well, why don't they
Speaker 1: just draft the guy that was on the left side instead?
Speaker 1: Maybe that maybe that there was something to that whole thing.
Speaker 2: He is, uh, he is the exact type of offensive
Speaker 2: lineman that if you're a line coach you want to
Speaker 2: work with. He's six seven, three ten pounds with really
Speaker 2: really high end athleticism. So if you can just teach
Speaker 2: them the position and coach them up on technique and
Speaker 2: all that good stuff, He's got all of the tools
Speaker 2: in the world and from a physical standpoint to be
Speaker 2: a serviceable NFL tackle, they just got to get him there.
Speaker 2: They's got to coach them up. And hopefully with this
Speaker 2: coaching staff, it's they have the coaching that can do that,
Speaker 2: you know, with Morone and the seventeen offensive line coaches
Speaker 2: that they have now, like, hopefully they can get guys
Speaker 2: to that point. Hopefully we're back in the world where
Speaker 2: you know Lee Adrian Waddell or you know Cam Fleming
Speaker 2: or whatever like that's back in play, Like they can
Speaker 2: develop those kinds of players again, That's that's the hope.
Speaker 2: And I see that maybe happening before our eyes a
Speaker 2: little bit with Marcus Priyant.
Speaker 1: Well that's encouraging.
Speaker 2: So that's the offensive line. I want to talk about
Speaker 2: receivers and I promise we are going to talk a
Speaker 2: little bit about defense as well, but I want to
Speaker 2: talk about their receivers, and then I want to take
Speaker 2: some calls because I know these people have been waiting
Speaker 2: for a while. Can I start on the receivers, Yes,
Speaker 2: you can.
Speaker 1: You owe me an apology.
Speaker 2: I owe you an apology about.
Speaker 1: What I gave a take three days in a camp.
Speaker 2: You gave a take.
Speaker 1: I gave a take that. Hey, by the way, it
Speaker 1: wasn't a loud take. It wasn't a hint banging the
Speaker 1: table take.
Speaker 2: Well, now you're gonna say it with your chest, so
Speaker 2: say it with your chest.
Speaker 1: I said at the time, Javon Baker was having a
Speaker 1: good start to camp.
Speaker 2: You did, and everybody, well, I wasn't on the show
Speaker 2: that laughed at you know.
Speaker 1: You came up to me after and laughed at me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you texted me and you laughed at me. And I
Speaker 1: still don't know whether or not Chevon Baker's.
Speaker 2: Making everybody's just laughing at it.
Speaker 1: I still don't know whether not Chevon Baker's making the team.
Speaker 1: But he's a hell of a lot closer than he
Speaker 1: was at the start of camp. I'll tell you that.
Speaker 2: So I wanted to go a big picture on the
Speaker 2: receivers for a second, and then go a little picture again.
Speaker 2: So let's zoom out for a second when we can
Speaker 2: get to your Javon Baker take.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying I'm starting three years doing Taekwon. It
Speaker 1: never caught on. I just sort of off the cuff.
Speaker 1: Give one, Jon Baker taken.
Speaker 2: It, and every and everybody roasted you for it.
Speaker 1: I'll give you that they're doing Taekwon against any bo.
Speaker 1: This is what Taekwon does. This is this is.
Speaker 2: Taekwon's time to shine. This isn't real football. This is
Speaker 2: Taekwon's time to shine. OTAs in training camp is like
Speaker 2: Taekwon Thornton might as well be Randy freaking Moss at
Speaker 2: this time of year.
Speaker 1: Like this isn't hurt.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is what he does. And then he'll land
Speaker 2: on his collar bone trying to catch a pass and
Speaker 2: he'll get hurt and he'll be out for six weeks.
Speaker 2: This is what Taekwon does. Back to the are the
Speaker 2: receivers that are currently on the Patriots roster. The question
Speaker 2: that I have with you at wide receiver because I
Speaker 2: I've been on some of some shows over the last
Speaker 2: couple of weeks. I was in your spot yesterday on
Speaker 2: the On the Crossover podcast on my old stomping grounds
Speaker 2: on Seal n S. There's a there's some buzz building
Speaker 2: for this wide receiver room, that this wide receiver room
Speaker 2: might actually be legit, not just competent, but might actually
Speaker 2: be legit. Like I feel like there's people that are
Speaker 2: now starting to come out of the woodwork and say,
Speaker 2: maybe we should start rating this Patriots wide receiver room
Speaker 2: a little bit with a little bit more of respect,
Speaker 2: Like where are you on that? Because it's better than
Speaker 2: it's been and there's no doubt about that. But I
Speaker 2: might not be ready to all of a sudden start
Speaker 2: talking about like this is like a top half of
Speaker 2: the league wide receiver room or wherever you want to
Speaker 2: put that. You understand what I'm getting at, because I
Speaker 2: feel like we're sorry to get into that categy.
Speaker 1: Here's the thing. I think we're done with the conversation
Speaker 1: about are they like the worst room in the league
Speaker 1: right or at the bottom five. We got a really
Speaker 1: good example of just how far they've come. That commander's
Speaker 1: wide receiver room blows.
Speaker 2: Okay, well, Terry McLarin, Well, then on ter McLaren right now, Well,
Speaker 2: he will be out there.
Speaker 1: Everybody else besides him. They nobody got opened yesterday, zach
Speaker 1: Ertz did none otherwise. Did they have one instance of
Speaker 1: a receiver getting separation with the first team with the
Speaker 1: Patriots top two corners out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean they had a one that they have,
Speaker 2: like a I think he's a UDFA that they're all
Speaker 2: pretty high on. He like he Moss Marcus Jones at
Speaker 2: one point, but.
Speaker 1: It sounds like us, Oh, the DFA Moss the five
Speaker 1: eight corner. There's hope. Yeah, we've been in those shoes, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I got clipped for making fun of the
Speaker 2: Commander's receiver room, So I'm gonna be careful.
Speaker 1: The point the point, the point being like we're not
Speaker 1: there anymore. Are they the best room in the league? No?
Speaker 1: Are they the worst room in the league? Definitely not.
Speaker 1: I think it's a representative room. Stefan Diggs, if he
Speaker 1: is truly as healthy as he looks, right, Stefan Diggs
Speaker 1: raises the level of that, and that's important. But I
Speaker 1: gotta give here's what it. So, I wanted an apology
Speaker 1: from you. Here's we're all given apology. Okay, I was
Speaker 1: down on Kishan Buoti because and you guys have heard
Speaker 1: me give this spiel before, like the consistency was not there,
Speaker 1: and I just didn't think he was going to get there.
Speaker 1: I just thought it was going to be flashes and
Speaker 1: that was it, and he was going to be this
Speaker 1: fringy player. He hasn't had necessarily some of those apex
Speaker 1: high point flashes, and I guess he has the last
Speaker 1: couple of days, like the beginning of camp, he didn't
Speaker 1: have these like unbelievable plays, like the jaw dropping plays.
Speaker 1: He was getting open and he was catching two to
Speaker 1: three passes a day, and he was just constantly involved.
Speaker 1: And that's what I needed to see from him. I
Speaker 1: know the high level stuff is there, but that's not
Speaker 1: going to be every play. Are you still able to
Speaker 1: find ways to contribute between it? And that's what he
Speaker 1: really didn't. I'll throw out his first year because he
Speaker 1: essentially got bench for the whole year. That's what he
Speaker 1: didn't do last year when he wasn't making unbelievable plays,
Speaker 1: he wasn't making any plays. He wasn't just making an
Speaker 1: okay play. And he's made a ton of okay, solid,
Speaker 1: move the chains plays in this camp, and if you're
Speaker 1: gonna be a guy wh's gonna be on the field
Speaker 1: sixty sixty five at least that percent of the time,
Speaker 1: which is what it looks like. The roles that's in
Speaker 1: store for him, you have to be able to do that.
Speaker 1: You have to be able to move the change as
Speaker 1: well as is take the top off down the field.
Speaker 1: And he's done that. So Stefan Diggs being healthy, Kayshawn
Speaker 1: body showing some tremendous consistency. MATC. Collins has kind of
Speaker 1: popped here in the last couple of days. Like, yep,
Speaker 1: the floor is so much higher. I don't know if
Speaker 1: the ceilings that much higher compared to where it's been.
Speaker 1: The floor is so much higher because because of Digs
Speaker 1: and booty mainly, and I'll throw mac Hollins in there
Speaker 1: as well.
Speaker 2: That's a good that's a that's a good way of
Speaker 2: putting it. I still don't know if the ceiling is
Speaker 2: astronomically high in terms of the top end talent in
Speaker 2: the room. Like I Diggs is a good player. I'm
Speaker 2: excited about Diggs. I've said a million times. I think
Speaker 2: he's gonna catch a hundred passes this year.
Speaker 1: Pops looked awesome.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I want to get to Pop in a second,
Speaker 2: but I still am not sure without Kyle Williams, who's
Speaker 2: been a little bit quiet. If Kyle Williams had been
Speaker 2: had come in here and started and just was tearing
Speaker 2: up camp and looked like the steal of the draft,
Speaker 2: he looked like Glad McConkey, right, then maybe I would
Speaker 2: sit here and say, Okay, I I feel like the
Speaker 2: ceiling is a little bit higher what I definitely agree
Speaker 2: with you on and I thought you put it well.
Speaker 2: The floor of this room is much higher than it
Speaker 2: has been the last couple of years, which is encouraging.
Speaker 2: The one guy that I feel like has really blown
Speaker 2: me away, though, is Pop. Like I've just been extremely
Speaker 2: impressed with how at home he looks in the slot
Speaker 2: and this offense. And we always knew that the slot
Speaker 2: produced in this offense. And I guess it was maybe
Speaker 2: me not giving him enough credit. But he even talked
Speaker 2: about it. And I asked him about it after practice
Speaker 2: the other day, just what do you attest to the
Speaker 2: mental growth in your game? And he said that he
Speaker 2: studied like he studied harder and he focused, you know,
Speaker 2: and he studied harder, and it's not I never had
Speaker 2: any reservations about Pop Douglas, the separator Like Pop Douglas,
Speaker 2: the athletic ability that he brings to the table. I
Speaker 2: think he's very I think he's I think he's a weapon.
Speaker 2: I think he's athletic. I think he's bursty. I think
Speaker 2: he's quick. I think he can separate. What I just
Speaker 2: didn't know about was was he going to be able
Speaker 2: to grasp the nuances to expand beyond what is essentially
Speaker 2: like you know, a pseudo gadget player, right, and he has,
Speaker 2: to his credit, he has you know, you look it up.
Speaker 2: Last year he's at sixty six catches for like just
Speaker 2: over six hundred yards. He was under ten yards per catch.
Speaker 2: I thought that maybe that was what he was capable of,
Speaker 2: And watching him in this training camp, I'm starting to
Speaker 2: think that maybe there's more. There's more there, that he
Speaker 2: has another level that he can reach. Sandri Still is
Speaker 2: a good nickel like he's a good slot corner. And
Speaker 2: Pop Douglas had that man in Hell yesterday like he
Speaker 2: was torching Sandra Still for most of that practice. And
Speaker 2: I know Sanders still gets to pick at the end,
Speaker 2: so he kind of gets the last laugh.
Speaker 1: Bobby Wagner made that.
Speaker 2: But Bobby Wagner and Sanders still was dusted at the
Speaker 2: line of scrimmage again by Bob Douglas on that play
Speaker 2: and just got lucky that the ball deflected in the
Speaker 2: air right to him. So I felt like, especially early
Speaker 2: on in this practice, that Bob Douglas was had him
Speaker 2: in the torture chamber like he was in in the
Speaker 2: freaking hurricane. And uh, Douglas has come a long way
Speaker 2: in terms of the nuances like understanding where the space is,
Speaker 2: where the options are in the raw, how do I
Speaker 2: get open against man, how do I settle against zone?
Speaker 2: How do I make myself available as quickly as possible
Speaker 2: to the quarterback as a target, And you just see
Speaker 2: the quick hitters are just McDaniel's vintage McDaniels, you know,
Speaker 2: like Edelman Welker vintage McDaniels. So I guess after all
Speaker 2: of that glazing, my question is about with Pop, like
Speaker 2: how statistically like, how high truly is this ceiling.
Speaker 1: He's got to stay healthy. That's my big question with Pop.
Speaker 1: That's been my question with Pop as long as he's here.
Speaker 1: I've always believed he can be, you know, a real
Speaker 1: offensive threat. Maybe not in a volume sense. I've said this,
Speaker 1: I don't think he's a high volume player, and they
Speaker 1: might not need him to be. I think that's digs
Speaker 1: in this offense. But anytime the ball is in his hands,
Speaker 1: it can be touchdown from anywhere on the field for
Speaker 1: multiple I.
Speaker 2: Just wonder, like what, because I'm just to stay healthy.
Speaker 2: He's got to stay healthy, but like, is there is
Speaker 2: there a volume level for him? Like because it realistically
Speaker 2: he was like I said, he's a sixty sixty five
Speaker 2: catch guy.
Speaker 1: As he was, I stand by, like, I don't he
Speaker 1: I think he should be on the field in eleven.
Speaker 1: I think he's a part of your offense in base eleven.
Speaker 1: When you go into twelve or twenty one, he's probably
Speaker 1: the guy I'm taking off the field. Yeah, so that
Speaker 1: limits him a little bit. Yeah, but I still think
Speaker 1: those plays where he's on the field, he can be
Speaker 1: tremendously impactful. So, you know, things I'll be looking at
Speaker 1: with him. He's not like total catches is not going
Speaker 1: to be what I'm looking at with him. It's going
Speaker 1: to be you know, yards, can he get that yards
Speaker 1: yards per catch? I think yards after the catch is
Speaker 1: big number with him. I think you know what percent
Speaker 1: of his catches go for first downs? That could be
Speaker 1: a number where I think he could be one of
Speaker 1: the you know where he could lead the team, be
Speaker 1: one of the better receivers in the league. Maybe not
Speaker 1: total first downs percentega catchers for first downs, that kind
Speaker 1: of thing. Again, I don't think he's your volume guy.
Speaker 1: I don't think you need him to be your volume guy.
Speaker 1: Which is fine. I think I've said this for everybody
Speaker 1: wants to because he's small and the lines up in
Speaker 1: the slot. Everybody wants to camp him to Julian Edelman.
Speaker 1: But when right when Julian Edelman was getting one hundred
Speaker 1: and twenty targets and get the cramp beat out of him,
Speaker 1: Danny Amandola with his speed and he was faster than
Speaker 1: people realize. Is taken off down the field, or maybe
Speaker 1: Chris Hogan's a better camp for this. He's not small,
Speaker 1: but like Chris Hogan's taken off down the field and
Speaker 1: using his speed to create separation and cashing in on defenses,
Speaker 1: collapsing down to take away that volume guy. That's what
Speaker 1: I think Pop's role is. He's not Edelman that might
Speaker 1: end up being Digs honestly, the way they draw this
Speaker 1: thing up, or it could even be mc hollins. He
Speaker 1: could be like a Jacobe Myers type. I think Douglas
Speaker 1: is the guy that when they bring that safety closer
Speaker 1: to the line, or when they go single high to
Speaker 1: get somebody extra in the box because you're running the
Speaker 1: ball well establishing the run, or because you just keep
Speaker 1: hitting step On Diggs on these five yard hitches in
Speaker 1: these seven yard inns and all right, we got to
Speaker 1: bring somebody down. Well, now that's when you send Pop up,
Speaker 1: or that's when you do some sort of screen or
Speaker 1: end around and get him out on the perimeter and
Speaker 1: get him isolated one on one on a tackler and
Speaker 1: he can make something explosive happen. That's the role I
Speaker 1: think he's going to thrive in.
Speaker 2: So I think that that's a role that I thought
Speaker 2: that he was going to thrive in this camp. He's
Speaker 2: just it has been so good, and I just wonder,
Speaker 2: is there a I think the better cop would probably
Speaker 2: be like Troy Brown, Dion Branch level to pop Douglas,
Speaker 2: because he's not Edelman or Welker like those guys.
Speaker 1: Branch might be a better one.
Speaker 2: I think the biggest thing about but.
Speaker 1: Those guys were like the number one receiver.
Speaker 2: But I think the biggest thing about Edelman and Pop
Speaker 2: and what's different between the two of them is Edelman
Speaker 2: was built like a running back like Edelman was.
Speaker 1: Like dense, dense and popas more straight lines, right.
Speaker 2: But Edelman was just a dense dude that could take
Speaker 2: those hits over the middle of the field. Welker the
Speaker 2: same way, but Edelman more so. Edelman was like an
Speaker 2: MMA fighter like that guy was. He was chiseled so
Speaker 2: like he had that ability. I don't know if Pop
Speaker 2: has that ability, but can they kind of like hey,
Speaker 2: like does his separation lend itself to so much space
Speaker 2: that like he can just kind of get into YAC
Speaker 2: mode and and get away from the traffic or b
Speaker 2: does he learn that like Dion Branch sixth sense, like
Speaker 2: when to duck down, when to know the journey is over,
Speaker 2: to like avoid the b almost.
Speaker 1: I don't want him to do I when I say
Speaker 1: I don't want him to do I want him to
Speaker 1: take care of himself. I want him stay healthy, but
Speaker 1: like he's so good after the catch, I don't want
Speaker 1: him to lose that. Now, there's a fine line. He
Speaker 1: probably he kept fumbling his rookie year because he was
Speaker 1: trying to extend plays too much. But like, I don't
Speaker 1: want I don't want him becoming Tyler Lockett. And I
Speaker 1: know that's an extreme example, but his best. I think
Speaker 1: he's best when the balls in his hands. That's what's
Speaker 1: crazy about him having this good camp. You really don't
Speaker 1: do yack in camp. He's more of a threat to
Speaker 1: me after the catch than before it. So I don't
Speaker 1: want him being a guy that has to worry about
Speaker 1: protecting himself and giving up opportunities after the catch. That's
Speaker 1: where I want him thriving. That's where I want him
Speaker 1: really crea.
Speaker 2: I guess I don't disagree that that's the strength of
Speaker 2: his game. I think his separation ability is the best
Speaker 2: part of his game.
Speaker 1: Oh see, I think it's after the cat. I still
Speaker 1: go back like that game he had in Dallas. Do
Speaker 1: you remember that? And I think Mac Jones through like
Speaker 1: three picks an act game, So you throw that one aside,
Speaker 1: But like remember that one up the side on where
Speaker 1: he hits the half juke backspin, like like he looks
Speaker 1: like he looks like Tyreek Kill on that plane. I'm
Speaker 1: not saying he's tyray Kill, but he looks like Tyrek
Speaker 1: Kill on.
Speaker 2: I've heard him compared to Dollar Store Tyree like.
Speaker 1: I want him doing Day Three's a right fower. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I want him doing that sort of stuff. That's what
Speaker 1: I want him doing. That's where I think he's at
Speaker 1: his best.
Speaker 2: I think is his separation is his best? Like they're
Speaker 2: both good traits, yes, but I just wonder, I wonder
Speaker 2: what the volume where we can get to.
Speaker 1: We should ask volume. This would be fun. We should
Speaker 1: do like catch twenty two.
Speaker 2: See we can grab him real quick after practice and
Speaker 2: what's your best?
Speaker 1: We both will know, Pop. We both think you're very good.
Speaker 1: But we had a little argument. Do you think you're
Speaker 1: at your best before the catch or after the catch?
Speaker 2: That's a good question.
Speaker 1: I'm curious what he thinks.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know, Matt. If they're gonna
Speaker 2: if they'll give catch twenty two a guest, I think
Speaker 2: that that that's practice.
Speaker 1: We can go to him. He doesn't have to come
Speaker 1: in here.
Speaker 2: Guess all right, Well, maybe we'll do that. Because we
Speaker 2: both like Pop. We've all have Pop since the beginning. Well,
Speaker 2: I don't want to give us credit for discovery ring
Speaker 2: Pop Douglas, but I don't want to not give us
Speaker 2: credit for discovering Pop Douglas because we might have discovered
Speaker 2: media sense. We were some of the first people talking
Speaker 2: about I'm going to pat ourselves on the back for
Speaker 2: a second with this and then then I want to
Speaker 2: move on. Yeah, So Alex and I covered the Shrine
Speaker 2: Bowl that Pop Douglas was in. That was twenty twenty two,
Speaker 2: twenty three, twenty three because Bill O'Brien was hired, so
Speaker 2: twenty twenty three, and we use the site, a very
Speaker 2: good site, mock Draft Database. They did a really good
Speaker 2: job of compiling like all the experts opinions on the
Speaker 2: draft and where everybody is and Pop Dougl we were two.
Speaker 2: There was other reporters there. I'm not going to give
Speaker 2: us the loan credit, but we were the ones that
Speaker 2: were really covering those practices, like on a with a
Speaker 2: big platform like we were doing it here on Patriots
Speaker 2: dot com. It was a good sized platform. And Pop
Speaker 2: Douglas's projection was He's going to go on drafted and
Speaker 2: he wasn't really like the seven hundred something up that
Speaker 2: it wasn't really on anybody's radar. And mock draft database
Speaker 2: has a chart at chart where it shows like the
Speaker 2: trajectory of a player, whether it's up down, up, down
Speaker 2: of his stock and as after the Shrine Bowl, after
Speaker 2: Alex and I discovered this jitterbug receiver out of Liberty,
Speaker 2: his line graph went from like all the way down
Speaker 2: here to like all the way up that.
Speaker 1: He went from like seven something to like the like
Speaker 1: three tens something like that ended up around two fifteen. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I went on with with Tom Kern when we were there,
Speaker 1: and I said, he was like, who'd you see him?
Speaker 1: Because the whole big thing was day Flowers was there, yes,
Speaker 1: and his say Flowers was supposed to be the story.
Speaker 1: And I was like, well, Jay Flowers didn't practice, but
Speaker 1: if that's what you want, yeah, let me tell you about.
Speaker 1: And then there was another guy because you kept getting
Speaker 1: them mixed.
Speaker 2: Up from Jackson Dallas Daniels, Dallas Daniels, from Jackson State.
Speaker 1: And it's another like small shifting there was.
Speaker 2: It was like three tiers and we made the That
Speaker 2: was when the nickname day three Z became a thing
Speaker 2: with Pop Douglas. It was like Zay Flowers was there
Speaker 2: and he was the Day one version of this archetype.
Speaker 2: Then Pop Douglas was there, keep going and he was
Speaker 2: like the Day three version of this archetype. And then
Speaker 2: Dallas Daniels was there and he was like the UDFA
Speaker 2: version of this archetype. And it was those three guys
Speaker 2: and they all were playing the same who's the Day
Speaker 2: two guy in Well, I don't think there was, Well
Speaker 2: Josh Downs was the Day two guy, but he was
Speaker 2: right Dallas Daniels, Yeah, Mass Jesus Pirates, no way, that's amazing.
Speaker 1: He was on the Broncos at one point.
Speaker 2: So so that that's Pop Douglas. We discovered Pop Douglas.
Speaker 2: I'm giving us credit for.
Speaker 1: That from a media standpoint.
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, like he discovered credit right, Yeah, true,
Speaker 2: that that's fair.
Speaker 1: The credit we we we were responsible for bringing him
Speaker 1: to the mainstream where where like the guys like we,
Speaker 1: we didn't start the band, We didn't create the band,
Speaker 1: but we were the ones who like went to some
Speaker 1: random concert and a dingy bar one night, saw this
Speaker 1: band that rock, and then went out and told everybody, hey,
Speaker 1: you gotta listen to this band, and then the band
Speaker 1: blows up.
Speaker 2: We started the fire. What we started the fire? Sure,
Speaker 2: there you go. All right, let's get to the phones.
Speaker 1: We didn't even do defense.
Speaker 2: Yet, I know, but they been waiting for over an hour.
Speaker 1: The whole team have quick you know, I'm always right.
Speaker 2: I'm going to get to the defense. All right, let's
Speaker 2: see if these guys are still holding. What's up Sean
Speaker 2: and Vancouver? How are we doing good?
Speaker 5: I have a couple of things. So with the offensive
Speaker 5: line that I'm saying, they will be, but if they're
Speaker 5: the worst offensive line in the league again, they'll still be.
Speaker 5: And I guarantee it's a lot better than last year.
Speaker 5: Last year they had four players who probably don't even
Speaker 5: make an NFL roster, and they're one player that was
Speaker 5: their best offensive lineman he has down here. So yeah,
Speaker 5: it's it's gonna be better. And I mean not to
Speaker 5: say that it's going to be in the top half,
Speaker 5: but it'll be better than it will.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 5: The other thing I want to talk about is, uh, sorry,
Speaker 5: I just have to catch my person.
Speaker 2: Yeah, be careful out there, Sean.
Speaker 5: Yeah, no, I'm on my way to a fitting for
Speaker 5: audacity some walking along the six Street. Sorry about the traffic. Yeah, Well,
Speaker 5: the other thing I wanted to tell you not to
Speaker 5: talk about other podcasts, but I was listening to this
Speaker 5: fantasy podcast about fantasy football, and they made me feel
Speaker 5: the best about the Patriots that I felt in years.
Speaker 5: Like they have this thing called ice and fire, and
Speaker 5: they have two eyes players, the Drake May and their
Speaker 5: other eye players. We've been talking about it, You've been
Speaker 5: talking about us. So it just made me feel so
Speaker 5: much better about this team.
Speaker 2: So I'll leave be on that thanks to the call, Sean,
Speaker 2: be safe out there, Sean, don't be dodging traffic to
Speaker 2: talk to us. So I've said this before, but I'll
Speaker 2: say it again. This is the first time since maybe
Speaker 2: since I've actually been professionally covering the team that the
Speaker 2: Patriots have fantasy relevant players.
Speaker 1: But they do, and they don't because Josh McDaniels inherently
Speaker 1: makes all his players fantasy irrelevant because he's such a
Speaker 1: game plan coach.
Speaker 2: Okay, but like you're drafting digs, yeah, digs probably. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you're drafting Hunter hen because tight ends not ye, you're
Speaker 2: drafted Hunter Henry.
Speaker 1: And I'm not like they've been fantasy.
Speaker 2: Relevant, like running back wise, they've had some fantasy relevant
Speaker 2: running backs over the years.
Speaker 1: I mean PPR.
Speaker 2: I don't know if I'm touching running backs right now
Speaker 2: with the Patriots, but maybe Henderson late Why the PPR
Speaker 2: league get wide receiver having a relevant player like Stefan
Speaker 2: Diggs and so.
Speaker 1: That's fantasy relevant wide receivers.
Speaker 2: Yes, maybe Pop Douglas too. Maybe I think the Pop
Speaker 2: Douglas thing with fantasy that's gonna hurt him as the touchdowns, Like,
Speaker 2: I don't think he's gonna have the touchdown production to
Speaker 2: be super fantasy relevant, but maybe I guess prime Edelman
Speaker 2: was probably fantasy relevant. So like eighteen nineteen, maybe we
Speaker 2: covered some teams in that range that had Patriot fantasy
Speaker 2: players that were relevant at wide receiver. But you might
Speaker 2: have to go all the way back to Brandon Cooks
Speaker 2: seven in twenty seventeen to like, because Edelman was always
Speaker 2: just the slot machine, right, Like, he wasn't a big
Speaker 2: touchdown guy or really a big fantasy producer. But yeah,
Speaker 2: it's a it's a it's a good time right now
Speaker 2: that they they're finally turning the curve in that sort
Speaker 2: of respect. All right, Patty is an aguan. What's up,
Speaker 2: Patty guys? How you doing good?
Speaker 3: So Alex, I gotta apologize. I'm sorry for tasking you
Speaker 3: with what I tasked you with yesterday.
Speaker 1: I got him the shirt.
Speaker 3: I appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Patty gave me a PEPSI to give to Paul Nice.
Speaker 1: I think I gave it a mic and made mic
Speaker 1: to it. But all right, there you got nice.
Speaker 3: If you, like I said, if you want one for
Speaker 3: like golfin Altun went to the studio for you, buddy.
Speaker 3: But what I one of my big takeaways from yesterday
Speaker 3: was I don't think this team is going to lack
Speaker 3: effort at all this coming year, especially after Brabel jumped
Speaker 3: in the piles during the skirmish. And a question for
Speaker 3: you guys, do you do you think that like we
Speaker 3: might actually have like a real NFL team this year
Speaker 3: because I don't know what the hell what we watched
Speaker 3: people last two seasons, but it was an NFL football.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: No, thanks for the representative group, and you're absolutely right
Speaker 1: about the effort. They love their coach.
Speaker 2: So is that the question that I have that I
Speaker 2: keep coming back to with what Patty just said because
Speaker 2: I'm with him like that, is that the bar for
Speaker 2: this year?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 2: Are you happy as a Patriot fan? This year. If
Speaker 2: the bar is just yep, that was an NFL season,
Speaker 2: like we had football season.
Speaker 1: Two checkboxes for me. We've been over this, two check
Speaker 1: taxes for me.
Speaker 2: Week eighteen is a meaningful game, so we had a
Speaker 2: football season.
Speaker 1: So well, no, there's two parts. This Week eighteen is
Speaker 1: a meaningful game, yes, and meaningful for the playoffs, not
Speaker 1: the draft, not like last year. Right, if they you know,
Speaker 1: need help Week eighteen and they win, but another team
Speaker 1: wins that they need to lose it fine, whatever, there's
Speaker 1: a caveat to that though. They have to be better
Speaker 1: at the end of the year than they are at
Speaker 1: the beginning, or at least very level the whole way through.
Speaker 1: They can't start five and four in finish six and eleven. Right,
Speaker 1: they can't do one of those things because even go
Speaker 1: back to the end of Bill, they've been falling apart
Speaker 1: at the end of seasons. So Week eighteen matters, and
Speaker 1: it matters because you built as the season went on.
Speaker 1: You were better at the end than you were at
Speaker 1: the beginning. So those are my two. And Drake May
Speaker 1: doesn't turn the ball over a million times, I guess
Speaker 1: that would be my.
Speaker 2: My only thing with the Week eighteen matters. Thing is
Speaker 2: that week eighteen, I think it was week eighteen. By
Speaker 2: this point, they were technically alive in twenty twenty two.
Speaker 1: So that's why I added the caveat about being better
Speaker 1: at the better in.
Speaker 2: The twenty twenty two season. If they had won in Buffalo,
Speaker 2: they were in the playoffs.
Speaker 1: They should help.
Speaker 2: I thought it was when.
Speaker 1: They needed help. I remember that they needed help. I
Speaker 1: thought it was when they needed help.
Speaker 2: Regardless they were technically it was a if they had
Speaker 2: won the game, they were alive the point.
Speaker 1: Well, but that's why, because we had this conversation already,
Speaker 1: That's why did that caveat. Why did that game they started?
Speaker 1: What did they start that year? Yeah, they started they
Speaker 1: were over five hundred for a little bit there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they we earned six and four and then they went
Speaker 1: five and two or two and five down the stretch. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So that's why I added the kate, you got to
Speaker 1: be better at the end. In the beginning, you got
Speaker 1: to be in the playoffs. We gotta be better at
Speaker 1: the end of the beginning. If they start two and
Speaker 1: five and finish eight and nine and they get knocked
Speaker 1: out on the last week of the year, I mean
Speaker 1: I got to see how it all plays out. But
Speaker 1: I might not hate that. That might be Okay, they
Speaker 1: gave me what they need to give me, Like maybe
Speaker 1: a little better than that, just with their schedule being
Speaker 1: as bad as it is, but like that's kind of
Speaker 1: what I'm looking for.
Speaker 2: Fair enough? All Right, Nate is in Connecticut. What's up, Nate? Yeah,
Speaker 2: we got you, all right.
Speaker 4: So my question for you guys is about Kyle Duggart.
Speaker 4: I know he's someone you haven't really mentioned at all
Speaker 4: on the two shows. What have you guys seen out
Speaker 4: of him these past couple of training camps? You know,
Speaker 4: yet I haven't really heard really anything about him. Is
Speaker 4: he is he's still under that lump from his injury
Speaker 4: this pre year, or is the bouncing back sort of
Speaker 4: and he's getting back into the groove.
Speaker 2: Thanks you guys, Thanks for the calling Nate. That's a
Speaker 2: good segue onto the defense. So let's get to that
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Speaker 2: dot Patriots dot com slash community. All right, Kyle Duggar
Speaker 2: is a good segue by Nate there. This is becoming
Speaker 2: kind of like the receiver topic of how good is
Speaker 2: this receiver room? Actually, how good is this safety room actually,
Speaker 2: and what's going on at safety has become another hot
Speaker 2: button area of concern, if you will. And Kyle Dugger
Speaker 2: has had a slow camp, and I think the thing
Speaker 2: that makes it different from past camps kind of like
Speaker 2: what Nate was asking with Kyle Dugger is usually with
Speaker 2: Kyle Dugger there's some splash plays mixed in there where
Speaker 2: like even if it's kind of fluky, like he'll get
Speaker 2: a pick six, or he'll intercept the pass, or he'll
Speaker 2: recover a fumble or like something right, something like usually
Speaker 2: splashy happens with Kyle Dugger that makes him noticeable on
Speaker 2: the practice field. This year, I feel like the only
Speaker 2: thing that I'm noticed seeing is him not exactly holding
Speaker 2: up in coverage.
Speaker 1: He was better yesterday, I guess, not in coverage, he's
Speaker 1: better overall. I say, yeah, I've said that, like I
Speaker 1: want to play Coyle Lugger in the box. I just
Speaker 1: want to play Kyle Lugger in the box and let
Speaker 1: him hunt the football. Yeah, that's where he's at his best.
Speaker 1: Let him do that. They haven't been able to do
Speaker 1: that the last couple of years because they don't have
Speaker 1: a true deep safety. And then Jabrill Peppers was away
Speaker 1: from the team and he was just the guy. So
Speaker 1: they have Jalen Hawkins, they have Marcus EPs. Hopefully he
Speaker 1: can do it now. Is lil think Peppers is a
Speaker 1: tremendous player. I still think Kyle Dugger is a starting
Speaker 1: caliber player if you put him in that role where
Speaker 1: he can succeed, which they should be able to do,
Speaker 1: especially in this defense. Uh. And then I like their
Speaker 1: dad Hawkins, Epps, Craig Woodsins. Craig Woodson has shown some flashes.
Speaker 1: See if Dell Pettis ends up sticking around, But they
Speaker 1: have to be healthy. Duggar and Peppers are both significant
Speaker 1: ifs when it comes to health. Epps is coming off
Speaker 1: of torn acl. If they're healthy, it's a really good
Speaker 1: safety room if they're healthy. And that's not like, that's
Speaker 1: not an insignificant if with this group.
Speaker 2: So I think we're this uh. And we got a
Speaker 2: an email about this as well, you know, titled defending
Speaker 2: tight Ends. I think that where this is all stemming
Speaker 2: from is that Kyle Dugger, when he's been asked to
Speaker 2: defend tight ends throughout his career, and then even in
Speaker 2: the practice yesterday against Zach Ertz, he got beat a
Speaker 2: couple times by Ertz. It's not an area of his
Speaker 2: game that I think is a particular strength, like man
Speaker 2: coverage against tight ends. And if it's not Kyle Duggart.
Speaker 2: And then you watch Jabrill Peppers and he's been playing
Speaker 2: sort of the hybrid role still where he's you know,
Speaker 2: been in the box quite a bit or even I've
Speaker 2: seen him actually in the third down pass rush package
Speaker 2: quite a bit. Two he he did that a little
Speaker 2: bit as a rookie. Yeah, Peppers like third three level
Speaker 2: guy right now. With this defense, I think Peppers is
Speaker 2: gonna definitely be here and be active for the Patriots defense.
Speaker 2: So if Peppers is doing that sort of thing, and
Speaker 2: you don't want Dugger playing the deep part of the
Speaker 2: field because you don't really think that's a particular strength
Speaker 2: of his and he's not holding up covering tight ends,
Speaker 2: this is how we're getting to these rumors about Kyle
Speaker 2: Dugger And I think I don't know if a rumor
Speaker 2: might be a little strong more might have just been
Speaker 2: a take. I think Badard was sort of the first one. Yeah,
Speaker 2: let's call it a take by Greg that maybe Kyle
Speaker 2: Duggart could be on the outside looking in and Look,
Speaker 2: this is what happens too with new coaching staffs. Like
Speaker 2: this coaching staff gets here, they start to get into
Speaker 2: camp and figure out the roster and how the pieces
Speaker 2: of the roster fit together, and they just might look
Speaker 2: at it a little bit differently. I think when the
Speaker 2: Patriots signed Peppers and Dugger both to those extensions, they
Speaker 2: were just thinking, good football players. We're gonna keep good
Speaker 2: football players here. This is what we're gonna do. Now
Speaker 2: that Vaabel's in here, I wonder if him and Terrell
Speaker 2: Williams are looking at it and being like, well, they're redundant, right,
Speaker 2: There's too much overlap to these two skill sets, whereas
Speaker 2: a Craig Woodson or a Jalen Hawkins might be able
Speaker 2: to offer a little bit more of a free safety
Speaker 2: body type. And we don't need we don't really love
Speaker 2: Dugger and Peppers together. And I wonder if we are
Speaker 2: going down that path, that might not mean that Kyle
Speaker 2: Duggar is gone this year like it might. This might
Speaker 2: be a next offseason thing where they fished his contract.
Speaker 1: Makes it tough for right.
Speaker 2: They'd have to probably find a trade, and I think
Speaker 2: that's hard to do.
Speaker 1: And I just wouldn't sell low on a guy like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So that's where we're at with Kyle Dugger. You know,
Speaker 2: the emailers said, uh so can we just get ready
Speaker 2: for brock Bowers to go for ten for one fifteen
Speaker 2: in week one. My hope about this this, uh you know,
Speaker 2: to this point with Bowers coming in here week one,
Speaker 2: I'm hoping that Rabel is going to have uh that
Speaker 2: Belichick game plan gene where he's going to be able
Speaker 2: to say anybody but Bowers. Yeah, and maybe that means brackets.
Speaker 2: Maybe that means, you.
Speaker 1: Know, horner. I think it means corner, a corner.
Speaker 2: Maybe that means like Robber or low whole help all
Speaker 2: the time, so that you're you're not truly bracketing him,
Speaker 2: but you kind of are bracketing him with two eyeballs,
Speaker 2: you know, four set, two sets, four eyeballs on brock
Speaker 2: Bauers most of the game. I would like to think
Speaker 2: that they're gonna make the Raiders beat them without feeding
Speaker 2: brock Bauers at that level. But we'll see what happens.
Speaker 1: In a long way to be a corner because when
Speaker 1: you look at why, you know, Vegas' receivers, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: give you the list here. Alex Bachman, Patriots legend, Kwan Baker,
Speaker 1: Jack Beck Patriots legend Philip dor Set, which, by the way.
Speaker 2: Is he the first Philip dor Set is still in
Speaker 2: the league? Yes, it you know who else is still
Speaker 2: in the league? And he was here yesterday? Remember Carl Davis. Yes,
Speaker 2: he's on the Commanders. Yeah, I know, I knew that, Carl.
Speaker 2: I knew that. I had no idea Philip doris Set.
Speaker 1: Still in the league. Is he the first ever NFL
Speaker 1: player to catch a touchdown pass from his owner?
Speaker 2: Wait?
Speaker 1: What is Philip dor Set the first ever NFL player
Speaker 1: to catch a touchdown pass from his owner?
Speaker 2: Who owns him?
Speaker 1: The Oh?
Speaker 2: Oh, I see what you're I Actually he's not.
Speaker 1: Did Brady own the Raiders last year? When did that
Speaker 1: become official?
Speaker 2: I think this year?
Speaker 1: Oh? Because then I forgot the band also doesn't own
Speaker 1: the right I forgot the Okay, but you get the point. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's wild filter, said k Troon Jackson, Shedrick Jackson, Colin Johnson,
Speaker 1: Tommy Mellech, Jakobe Myers, your guy, Dante Thornton who apparently
Speaker 1: is having a good camp. Uh, Trey Tucker and Seth Williams,
Speaker 1: so not exactly like Jacoby can play. Right If Jack
Speaker 1: Betch is like a nice player, you put Gonzales on Jacoby,
Speaker 1: Alex Austin can cover Jack Betch. Yeah, I'm not worried
Speaker 1: about that, like you can put Carlton Davis on on
Speaker 1: brock Bowers.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So I definitely with the to go back to
Speaker 2: the safety thing. They've talked about wanting to be interchangeable
Speaker 2: back there, but I do think that we might be
Speaker 2: gravitating towards more traditional roles, like true free and strong
Speaker 2: safety roles. And right now, Pepper's is definitely in the
Speaker 2: driver's seat to be the strong safety and between Jalen
Speaker 2: Hawkins and and I would say right now it's probably
Speaker 2: Hawkins and Woodson competing and maybe a little bit of
Speaker 2: Epps in that competition as well. They're competing for a
Speaker 2: free safety role. And I could see a world where
Speaker 2: Dugger is like a package situational player, like he's not
Speaker 2: somebody that's on the field all the time like he
Speaker 2: has been the last couple of years. And it'll be
Speaker 2: interesting to see where they go from there. But maybe
Speaker 2: it is Woodson at free Pepper's a strong Dugger as
Speaker 2: like the third like the like a true Nickel dime safety, right,
Speaker 2: if they want to go three safety, then he's the
Speaker 2: third guy in especially in obvious past, Like I think
Speaker 2: that's where you want to take dougger off the field
Speaker 2: is when you know that they're going to pass the ball. Yeah,
Speaker 2: if he's out there on first down to stop the
Speaker 2: run and to play aggressively and do all that kind
Speaker 2: of stuff, I think he can still be a productive
Speaker 2: player for him. But I wonder if there's a world
Speaker 2: where when we talk about true starters, like we're really
Speaker 2: talking about Peppers with a true free safety like a
Speaker 2: and Hawkins or Craig Woodson, And then that leaves the
Speaker 2: whole conversation about you know who really is covering the
Speaker 2: tight end because I don't. I don't think that that's
Speaker 2: Pepper's strong suit either. I think Pepper's strong suit is
Speaker 2: roaming and being in the box and blitzing and playing
Speaker 2: at the second.
Speaker 1: Hun prob best two safeties are both ideally box safety.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So we'll see where that all ends up. That's
Speaker 2: a big question. The other part of the defense that
Speaker 2: I wanted to get to, I've been really now, look
Speaker 2: the commanders, you said it earlier the Commander's wide receiver
Speaker 2: room sans Terry McLaurin is it's it's scary Terry, So
Speaker 2: it's not a great room. That being said, I think
Speaker 2: Alex Austin has really solidified himself as like a third
Speaker 2: corner in this league. I think he can be that
Speaker 2: player for them. And DJ James, I thought, had another
Speaker 2: decent practice yesterday where he held up pretty well.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I like DJ James, and corner is a position
Speaker 1: where I'm always a little more concerned with depth than others,
Speaker 1: especially with you know, Carlon davis injury history, and DJ
Speaker 1: James isn't a guy one out there a lot. If
Speaker 1: he has to play his third corner in a game
Speaker 1: or two this year, like, I'm comfortable with that. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna give you one other guy, by the way, he's
Speaker 1: going to make the team that Yeah, literally nobody is
Speaker 1: talking about and I kind of know why they're not
Speaker 1: talking about it, but he he's gonna be my Oscar projection.
Speaker 1: I'm telling you right now, he's going to make the team.
Speaker 1: Trey Avery, Okay, he was with Tenant and Verraible in Tennessee.
Speaker 1: He primarily played special teams and kind of was their
Speaker 1: last rotational corner. It's exactly what Marcell's Dial did here
Speaker 1: last year. And they signed Tray Avery or they claimed
Speaker 1: him off waivers, which tells you that they like him
Speaker 1: because they didn't wait for him to pass waivers. They
Speaker 1: claimed him off waivers after Marcel's Dal got hurt. Trey
Speaker 1: Avery's gonna make this team. I feel really strongly about this.
Speaker 1: The corner room is going to be Austin, Avery, Davis, Gonzalez,
Speaker 1: DJ James, Marcus Jones. I'd like to see Isaiah Bolden
Speaker 1: get run. I feel like I've been saying that for
Speaker 1: three years now, and at this point I'm maybe just
Speaker 1: yelling into the void. Yeah, those six guys, that's their
Speaker 1: corner room. I feel very strongly about that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I like it like I think it's it's
Speaker 2: good on paper. Obviously, with a second team all pro
Speaker 2: like Gonzala, who's on the upward trajectory, in Carlon Davis
Speaker 2: at the top of the depth charter, it's easy to
Speaker 2: say it's a it's a good room. But what I've
Speaker 2: really been encouraged by is just how well DJ James
Speaker 2: and Alex Austin have held up. Now it's the Patriots
Speaker 2: receiver room, and this is the commander's receiver room. So
Speaker 2: I'll put that caveat in there next week when the
Speaker 2: Patriots go to Minnesota. I don't Justin Jefferson's been kind
Speaker 2: of like hamstring slash on Justin Jefferson. I'll see you
Speaker 2: week wanting it right now in training camp, So I
Speaker 2: don't know if he's going to be out there next week.
Speaker 2: But they also have Jordan Addison. Of course he's suspended,
Speaker 2: but yeah, he can still practice for now. So that's
Speaker 2: we're going up a level, is my point. So even
Speaker 2: if it's just Addison and there's no Justin Jefferson, Like,
Speaker 2: how does Austin and DJ James look against Jordan Addison,
Speaker 2: who I think is a much better receiver, maybe not
Speaker 2: better than Diggs, but like better than the receivers that
Speaker 2: the Commanders certainly have outside of Terry McLaurin. So interesting
Speaker 2: to see how those practices go for those depth corners.
Speaker 1: But yeah, and I mean the they also have you know,
Speaker 1: Rondelle Moore's a the NFL receiver representative. Yeah, like they
Speaker 1: have some it's a lot better even without even if
Speaker 1: you want to take out Jefferson, I and Addison. It's
Speaker 1: a better room, I think than what Washington has.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would agree with that.
Speaker 1: Oh, I you know it's on Minnesota, Bryson nesbit nice.
Speaker 1: So maybe when Member Bill used to do this like
Speaker 1: they he'd always sign or claim off waivers one guy
Speaker 1: that they faced and joint practices. Yeah, I don't want
Speaker 1: to ask you any of the Commander's tackles look good
Speaker 1: to you, Laramie Tunzel like that's gonna get on be
Speaker 1: on the bubble.
Speaker 2: Maybe, you know, honestly, I thought Laramie Tunzel was the
Speaker 2: only one that looked look decent, good player, good football.
Speaker 2: So uh yeah, I'm interested to see you if we
Speaker 2: want as we go up, you know, above weight class
Speaker 2: as they say here with the wide receiver position, if
Speaker 2: those depth corners still hold up. But you know, in
Speaker 2: some ways and in terms of Gonzo like him pulling
Speaker 2: a hand like that's not good, Like it's not good
Speaker 2: for any of your anybody if you're good players to
Speaker 2: get hurt. I'm not saying yeah, but in some respects
Speaker 2: like having Alex Austen and DJ James get this much
Speaker 2: exposure is.
Speaker 1: Not a valuable rep.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a valuable reps and there's no questions about
Speaker 2: Christian Gonzalez's ability. He doesn't necessarily need the reps at
Speaker 2: the same way. So to get an extended look to
Speaker 2: evaluate Austin and DJ James has been a decent development.
Speaker 2: And if you want to look at it like glass
Speaker 2: half full of Gonzo getting hurt during camp, I'd say
Speaker 2: that's the way to look at it. And I do
Speaker 2: wonder DJ James because he's not the biggest corner. I
Speaker 2: do wonder if there's like a slot flexibility in his future,
Speaker 2: like maybe he could play more inside and have that
Speaker 2: ability as well, because I still think that they want
Speaker 2: to have a guy that they can put inside. It's
Speaker 2: a little bit bigger. I don't think that that's Alex
Speaker 2: Austen's game. I think Alex Austen's too like tight hipped
Speaker 2: in like an upright move uh to play the slot.
Speaker 2: So I feel like, you know, Marcus Jones right now
Speaker 2: is going to play the slot. But I'm I'm on
Speaker 2: an island with Marcus Jones on the PU panel. I'm
Speaker 2: the only guy that still thinks that Marcus Jones is
Speaker 2: a good corner, I guess, but I still think, yeah,
Speaker 2: so Marcus Jones, But he just has to stay healthy
Speaker 2: if they want to have a bigger body type there.
Speaker 2: Marcel's dial obviously going out was really the front runner
Speaker 2: for that role, I would say, until he got hurt.
Speaker 2: So now maybe it's DJ James. Once Gonzales and Davis
Speaker 2: start practicing again, maybe this it becomes DJ James. This
Speaker 2: is not you know, I'm not there's not any intel,
Speaker 2: don't aggregamy whatsoever. I just feel like Carlton Davis and
Speaker 2: carl and Christian Zales, like you know that week in
Speaker 2: between where it's like right after the third pre singing game,
Speaker 2: but it's not week one yet.
Speaker 1: That yet, Labor Day weekend, that in between week.
Speaker 2: I think we're gonna see zero in seven out there
Speaker 2: with you. Yeah, so I'm I I still don't have
Speaker 2: any concern there. In terms of the line scrimmage on
Speaker 2: the defense side of the ball. From practice yesterday, I
Speaker 2: thought Barmore and Milton Williams showed well. I thought, you know,
Speaker 2: those guys are gonna play, are They're gonna translate against
Speaker 2: every team pretty much. I think I think they're just
Speaker 2: gonna be good. I'm really optimistic about what we've seen
Speaker 2: so far out of Harold Landry. I just I don't
Speaker 2: know what it's going to mask A mask too. I
Speaker 2: don't know if his past rush production or like his
Speaker 2: win rate and all that fancy stuff is all going
Speaker 2: to go back to where it was when Rabel was
Speaker 2: in Tennessee. But I thought he was disruptive yesterday on
Speaker 2: a handful of occasions. I think he just fits the scheme.
Speaker 2: He knows the scheme. He's pretty good on as a
Speaker 2: looper on some on those stunts or the tn s
Speaker 2: on the end of the line. I thought he was
Speaker 2: productive on some of those yesterday as well. He looks
Speaker 2: like he's in great shape and came in ready to go.
Speaker 2: I've been pleasantly not surprised, but just like it's been
Speaker 2: good for Harold Landry. It's been good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's kind of what we expect, right, it
Speaker 1: was gonna be this. You know, he's not gonna be
Speaker 1: Miles Garrett. He's not going to be this overwhelming pass rusher.
Speaker 1: But his presence, you feel his presence, Yeah, he feels
Speaker 1: presence when he's out there.
Speaker 2: Anybody else on defense that stood out to you.
Speaker 1: So just camp as a whole, because like I feel
Speaker 1: like we even talked in a while. There's been a
Speaker 1: lot of practices between the last time we did the show.
Speaker 1: Now I am very pleasantly surprised about Kiros Tonga. I
Speaker 1: Kiros a good day yesterday too, So this this, it
Speaker 1: relates to yesterday. I thought kiris Tong was gonna be
Speaker 1: the god who's gonna play twenty five thirty percent of
Speaker 1: the time third and short, fourth and short goal line.
Speaker 1: That was going to be it. He's got a little
Speaker 1: movement to him, and he's not Aaron Donald, but like
Speaker 1: there were a couple of times he created pressure as
Speaker 1: a pass rusher. That's actually something I'm gonna be watching
Speaker 1: for out there tomorrow.
Speaker 2: Night, Like I want to get to that in a second.
Speaker 1: So just like can he play on first and ten?
Speaker 1: Can he play on second and five? He's kind of
Speaker 1: in between downs. Because I've said this, I'm a little
Speaker 1: worried about the run defense as a whole. If Kiris
Speaker 1: Tonga can be more than just a strict situational player,
Speaker 1: that's gonna help him out a lot. So I've been
Speaker 1: really surprised by him. He's been awesome, Like I've really
Speaker 1: enjoyed watching him. He is he seems like a like
Speaker 1: he seems like he gets it too, Like I like
Speaker 1: when we talk to him, I like that he says, yes, he.
Speaker 2: Is a he's a strong dude, like he's a And
Speaker 2: I think what's impressing me the most about him, to
Speaker 2: your point, is like his bull rush and the pass
Speaker 2: rush is legit, Like he can legitimately dent the pocket
Speaker 2: with that level of bull rush, and he's he's an
Speaker 2: angry rusher, like you can hear it when he like
Speaker 2: collides with like a garter or center and he starts
Speaker 2: to bowl rush like it's gonna be it's gonna be
Speaker 2: a long way to Grandma's house. Like he's not gonna
Speaker 2: blow by people, but he's gonna push the pocket and
Speaker 2: he's gonna end up in the quarterback slap at some point.
Speaker 2: I've been really pleasantly surprised, I'll use that phrase here,
Speaker 2: like I've been pleasantly surprised at how uh noticeable he
Speaker 2: has been in the pass rush, Like he's a legitimate
Speaker 2: pocket pusher. And if he can do that, then he
Speaker 2: does become more of a regular player because even on
Speaker 2: first and ten, like he's out there to stop the run.
Speaker 2: But when they play pass, like when they play action
Speaker 2: or they drop back on first and ten. Well, he's
Speaker 2: not a liability now because he can just dent the
Speaker 2: pocket like that's that's the when a nose tackle becomes
Speaker 2: like a more regular player. You know, Vince Wolfwork wasn't
Speaker 2: blown by people either, but Vince Wolfwork would walk the
Speaker 2: center right back into the quarterback slap and that's a
Speaker 2: valuable as said as well, So I'm with you. That
Speaker 2: was a good shout on Tanga. You said, uh, what
Speaker 2: you were looking forward to a little bit there tomorrow night.
Speaker 2: I want to preview the game a little bit here
Speaker 2: at the end. What are you watching for? I know
Speaker 2: that preseason the starters don't usually play much these days,
Speaker 2: and that's a bummer for some fans. But I think
Speaker 2: that there's a lot of interesting, you know, competitions that
Speaker 2: are still shaking themselves out at the back end of
Speaker 2: the roster that I'm going to be watching for, especially
Speaker 2: backup tackles.
Speaker 1: You seem a little higher on Marcus Bryant than me.
Speaker 1: But and even if you are, like, it's game action,
Speaker 1: what does Marcus Bryant look like, especially on the left side,
Speaker 1: Cole Strange, Ben Brown, that dynamic, It's a lot of
Speaker 1: stuff that we talked about, Javon Baker, the back end
Speaker 1: of that wide receiver room, a position we didn't talk about.
Speaker 1: I'll give you this one linebacker. So splaining Gibbons Ellis
Speaker 1: are going to make the team? Yep, those are kind
Speaker 1: of sideline of sideline faster athletic guys. Are they going
Speaker 1: to keep Marte Mapuh's a fourth one of those guys?
Speaker 1: Is their room for a thumper? Is there a fourth guy?
Speaker 1: And I don't think Joanna is gonna play because he's hurt.
Speaker 1: But like again, splaining, Gibbons Ellis are all making the team.
Speaker 1: Does a fourth linebacker make the team? If so? Who?
Speaker 1: Monty Rice is a guy we probably should talk a
Speaker 1: little more about. Played for Rabel and Tennessee had a
Speaker 1: good spring, hasn't done as much this summer. Yeah, Like,
Speaker 1: does somebody emerge in that conversation? So I then give yours?
Speaker 1: Then I'll do kickers?
Speaker 2: Okay, good, good idea? So offensive line. I've been waiting
Speaker 2: since May to watch Will Campbell on tape in a
Speaker 2: Patriot Yeah and so, so just getting some film on
Speaker 2: Will Campbell because I admit, even as a guy that
Speaker 2: likes to watch the trenches during practice without being able
Speaker 2: to review the tape of what exactly happened. There's a
Speaker 2: lot of bodies and flying parts and things like that.
Speaker 2: It's hard to really diagnose sometimes in the live viewing
Speaker 2: of practice what exactly happened when there is a breakdown
Speaker 2: on the offensive line. So watching Will Campbell studying his
Speaker 2: film a little bit in a Patriot uniform, I'm really
Speaker 2: looking forward to that. Jared Wilson too, But I think
Speaker 2: all of us are sort of on Campbell watch at
Speaker 2: this point, and I like that. I like that people
Speaker 2: want to talk about the offensive line. I love that,
Speaker 2: So I.
Speaker 1: Love that that line had to be historically bad to
Speaker 1: get to this point. Yeah, but hey, we're here whatever.
Speaker 2: We're here. So Will Campbell He's number one on my list.
Speaker 2: Like when I will release like a after further review
Speaker 2: film review after the game, probably on Saturday night, and
Speaker 2: it might be the lead story, honestly, is how the
Speaker 2: rookies and how especially Will Campbell looked in their preseason debut.
Speaker 2: So I'm looking forward to seeing that with Campbell. I
Speaker 2: think the other things that I'm looking forward are the
Speaker 2: same as what you kind of laid out there. But
Speaker 2: really the wide receiver you know, Baker, Chisholm, Polk, those
Speaker 2: guys need to continue to point the arrow upward if
Speaker 2: they're gonna make the team. Like if they don't really
Speaker 2: need to keep six, right, like they don't need to
Speaker 2: keep six, you need to make them need to keep six,
Speaker 2: right if that makes sense, like they don't. You can
Speaker 2: get a lot of teams carry six now, but you
Speaker 2: can carry five and be good. So if they're gonna
Speaker 2: carry six receivers, it's because Javon Baker just had such
Speaker 2: a good summer that they don't want to cut bait
Speaker 2: with him just yet, you know. Or Chisholm had a
Speaker 2: great preseason and they won't and he had like this
Speaker 2: Edelman breakout during the preseason and they don't want to
Speaker 2: cut him just yet. So those receivers have got to
Speaker 2: earn spots. Depth along the offensive line is obviously another
Speaker 2: big one. You know, how does a cold strange look
Speaker 2: Marcus Bryant, Caden Wallace if he plays in the game.
Speaker 2: Those guys as well. I'm not looking out too much
Speaker 2: on defense, to be honest with you. I feel like
Speaker 2: they're defensively they kind of know who there, Like fifteen
Speaker 2: guys are that are going to play a lot, but
Speaker 2: we'll see maybe about you know those young corners in
Speaker 2: Austin and DJ James. So you do your kicker minute.
Speaker 2: We got three minutes to go, perfect amount of time.
Speaker 2: I might have a I have a like a a
Speaker 2: half baked take. So what's your You give yours.
Speaker 1: First, because mine's going to undo yours, my.
Speaker 2: Half bag take on the kicker thing. If we get
Speaker 2: through the Minnesota game and Borgoalis is steady from what
Speaker 2: we've seen over the last what I would say, like
Speaker 2: a week and a half maybe from him, I think
Speaker 2: it's over. I think it's over. You're not going to
Speaker 2: cut a draft pick.
Speaker 1: Oh, I get to bring back my two kickers take.
Speaker 2: You're not going to cut the draft pick if it's
Speaker 2: even and he's already it's probably even to maybe a
Speaker 2: little bit of an edge towards Borgalis at this point.
Speaker 2: And I just don't see a world unless Borgoalis falls
Speaker 2: apart in the next couple of weeks. In the preseason
Speaker 2: where Parker Romo.
Speaker 1: When do you remember the two kickers take? Yeah, I
Speaker 1: was very proud.
Speaker 2: What was your actual kicker take?
Speaker 1: So my actual kicker take is this. It has been
Speaker 1: closed between the two of them. They've both been absolutely nails.
Speaker 1: Borgals hasn't missed in like two weeks. H Parker Romo
Speaker 1: finally missed his first kick yesterday, and I'm not kidding
Speaker 1: he missed it by this much like they've both been
Speaker 1: locked in. So I'm thinking about this right, and we're
Speaker 1: missing half the story. When we talk about it. We
Speaker 1: we use the field goals because they're easy, right, it's
Speaker 1: good or it's not good. The field goals might not
Speaker 1: be the deciding factor here. If they're both good, it's
Speaker 1: gonna be the kick. It's gonna be the kickoffs. This
Speaker 1: is so you It's gonna be a kickoffs and I'm waiting.
Speaker 2: I love it.
Speaker 1: Can't wait till we get to talk talk to Jeremy Springer, Yanks.
Speaker 1: I want to ask them about this.
Speaker 2: I can't wait, Marian to talk to the special you
Speaker 2: can't wait. Yeah, so sorry. Sorry.
Speaker 1: Springer's talked about how he thinks there's going to be
Speaker 1: more kickoff returns this year. They moved that touch back
Speaker 1: up to the thirty five. Right. Team don't want to
Speaker 1: deal with that, So that tells me the Patriots don't
Speaker 1: want to deal with it. They want to put the
Speaker 1: ball and play and cover, So you got to be able.
Speaker 1: You can't be kicking the ball in the end zone. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but you don't want to kick it so short that
Speaker 1: you can't set up your return coverage. So follow you
Speaker 1: need which kicker can work it if they're both hitting
Speaker 1: every field goal, right, Okay, which kicker is better at kickoffs?
Speaker 1: Which one's consistently getting the ball inside the five but
Speaker 1: not putting it in the end zone. Now that's not
Speaker 1: as black and white judging as field goals because even
Speaker 1: if they put it in the side the five, there
Speaker 1: is a play call on that we don't know. And Okay,
Speaker 1: he put it inside, but it was on the right
Speaker 1: sideline when it was supposed to be in the middle,
Speaker 1: or he kicked it like this and he's supposed to
Speaker 1: kick like that. Whatever, Right, But it might come down
Speaker 1: to who's the better kickoff kicker, and again not knowing
Speaker 1: the play calls, just looking at who's more consistently getting
Speaker 1: the ball in that range where you want to get it.
Speaker 1: I would say Borgoalis by a smidge in the kickoff
Speaker 1: stuff we've seen them do in practice. Hopefully the Patriots
Speaker 1: are scoring a lot, because I want to see a
Speaker 1: lot of kickoffs, because I think that might be more
Speaker 1: than anything else, which determines the kicker battle. That might
Speaker 1: matter more than the field goals. If they're both going
Speaker 1: to be this good.
Speaker 2: I just don't see a world and also.
Speaker 1: Sorry, I want with that the kickoff returner battle is
Speaker 1: important too.
Speaker 2: We'll see that's smart night, So begals. You invested a
Speaker 2: six round I'm picking the guy, and I just feel
Speaker 2: like it would have to have been an app like
Speaker 2: a Justin rhor Wasser esque train wreck for to cut
Speaker 2: a sixth round pick. And the fact that Bergalis is
Speaker 2: at least even with Parker Roman and probably maybe a
Speaker 2: little bit better at this point than Parker Romo.
Speaker 1: Parco hadn't missed till Yes, that's kind of insane. He
Speaker 1: was like twenty I think he ate his first twenty
Speaker 1: three before he missed it. Just that's wild.
Speaker 2: It's hard for me to envision a world where they
Speaker 2: cut the draft pick. It is, so that's it.
Speaker 1: I will sort of bring back my two kicker takes now,
Speaker 1: don't there are not. I'm not saying they're going to
Speaker 1: keep two kickers.
Speaker 2: You think they're gonna try even.
Speaker 1: Though I met fifty two players on my roster projection
Speaker 1: right now. And I could do it if I wanted.
Speaker 1: I could do it if I wanted. Yes, they could
Speaker 1: maybe if a team's worried about the kicker situation, if
Speaker 1: Parker Romo is still not missing in the preseason, can
Speaker 1: they get when they get a seventh round pick for Nicktop,
Speaker 1: can you do some sort of pick swap or something
Speaker 1: and get a pick for John Parker Romo?
Speaker 2: So really quickly, and then we got to go. I
Speaker 2: want to I want to unpack your your kickoff thing
Speaker 2: a little bit because I think this is I actually
Speaker 2: find it a tad a bit interesting.
Speaker 1: It is interesting and the play is interesting.
Speaker 2: So basically, the the best kick in the current rules
Speaker 2: is to bounce it like inside the ten yard line,
Speaker 2: but to like keep it in bounce.
Speaker 1: No, so the best thing you.
Speaker 2: Can do because he has to go in the landing zone.
Speaker 1: Right. So okay, so a touchback, there's two touchbacks now.
Speaker 2: Because it bounces into the end zone. It's the last
Speaker 2: Touchbown's twenty.
Speaker 1: That's to the twenty. That's the old touchbacks. So that's
Speaker 1: what you want to do, right, But are any teams
Speaker 1: just gonna willingly let the ball bounce into the end
Speaker 1: zone and start at the twenty. Maybe I don't think so.
Speaker 1: If you don't trust yourself in this format to return
Speaker 1: the ball to the twenty, I'm sorry, you suck.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: It's not that you don't trust it, but a lot
Speaker 2: of a lot of coaches I you don't. It's not
Speaker 2: so much about the return, it's about this ball security.
Speaker 2: I think for a lot of coaches.
Speaker 1: If you don't trust yourself to hold onto the ball
Speaker 1: and run twenty yards and risk that much field position.
Speaker 1: Remember they're lining up on the thirty five. Yeah, right,
Speaker 1: that's that's where the coverage team is.
Speaker 2: So so in your mind, the best where would you want? Ideally,
Speaker 2: because you want the ball, you want to put the
Speaker 2: ball in the landing zone, but not in the end zone.
Speaker 1: You can't come short. Short of the landing zone is
Speaker 1: the forty.
Speaker 2: Right, But you don't want it to go in the end.
Speaker 1: You can't go directly the end zones. That's thirty five.
Speaker 1: So this is what I need to ask Springer, because
Speaker 1: I've heard both sides of the arguments on this. If
Speaker 1: you kick it as deep as possible without it going
Speaker 1: into the end zone, you have more time to develop
Speaker 1: your coverage, play whatever you have drawn up, because there's
Speaker 1: like stunts and twists and stuff.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, no, they were pretty creative with it last year.
Speaker 1: But the flip side of that is if you kick
Speaker 1: it to like the eighteen nineteen, well, now the other
Speaker 1: team doesn't have time to set up their blocking, So
Speaker 1: that might just be I might ask him and he'll say,
Speaker 1: I can't give away that strategy, like that might be
Speaker 1: a different thing team to team. I look at it
Speaker 1: like a punt. I want to put it as close
Speaker 1: to the goal line as possible as Also, then you're
Speaker 1: pressuring them to catch it and not let it roll
Speaker 1: into the end zone at the eighteen, Like it's not
Speaker 1: gonna ll the end zone for the eighteen.
Speaker 2: But what I would say is the ideal and then
Speaker 2: we got to go. But I we started a little late,
Speaker 2: so it's okay. Yeah, what I would say is the ideal.
Speaker 2: And the people that are listening to this.
Speaker 1: Right now, these are the ones.
Speaker 2: These are the diehards.
Speaker 1: We call these p ones. I if it would me, yeah.
Speaker 2: I would want to land it like right outside the
Speaker 2: end zone. Yeah, and I'm putting it right on a
Speaker 2: spot that Brennan's schooler is just sprinting to as part
Speaker 2: of the coverage unit, and I am hoping that Brennan's
Speaker 2: school is, like in Tennessee last year, is going to
Speaker 2: come down and light the dude up.
Speaker 1: Well right like that, You have to.
Speaker 2: Remember the schooler can't move until the ball is caught, right, So,
Speaker 2: but he's still got up over twenty miles an hour
Speaker 2: in Tennessee, he.
Speaker 1: Did, but the guy's going to be gone by the time.
Speaker 1: Schooler's got to go thirty five yards to get to
Speaker 1: where that ball is, and he can't start running till
Speaker 1: the guys already caught.
Speaker 2: No, I'm not saying he's going to get the ball.
Speaker 2: I'm saying he's just going to be in the path
Speaker 2: so that when the guy starts moving up the field,
Speaker 2: you can get that collision. So then when you have
Speaker 2: to do either that's it's to fear, feel position or
Speaker 2: maybe even you make it.
Speaker 1: That makes sense, But that's hard because you can't kick it.
Speaker 1: This is where I like when I said we don't
Speaker 1: know exactly what the kickoff play is, we can't fully
Speaker 1: judge it. You can't run that play if you're kicking
Speaker 1: the ball in the middle of the field. Because now
Speaker 1: the returner.
Speaker 2: Can go left right, you have to You've got to
Speaker 2: pin him in the corner, which is hard, you.
Speaker 1: Know, goes out of bounds. Now you really blue, so
Speaker 1: you're trying to really I kind of like it because
Speaker 1: the old it's not back, but the old coffin corner
Speaker 1: sort it back. If you're going to do that, ideally
Speaker 1: of school, are in another guy and you kick in
Speaker 1: the middle, and you vice that's what I would do.
Speaker 2: Okay, just I think I know the answer to this. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you have to kick it off the tee.
Speaker 1: So somebody told me they changed that, and then I
Speaker 1: don't know. I thought I saw them doing it it camp.
Speaker 1: The other thing is like last year teams figured out
Speaker 1: if you laid the ball down flat on the tee
Speaker 1: instead of standing up. I want to make you go
Speaker 1: get me one of those footballs to show it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like if you laid the ball flat on the tee,
Speaker 1: you could put this weird spin on it, which now
Speaker 1: that you don't need to kick it as far teams
Speaker 1: willing to do. And then they said, no, it has
Speaker 1: to be standing up on it.
Speaker 2: But you can't drop kick it.
Speaker 1: You can't. Well, you still do the drop kick but
Speaker 1: that's a whole other thing.
Speaker 2: I know. But I'm saying, like, they can't put like
Speaker 2: Bryce Barringer out there to literally punt it. It has
Speaker 2: to be it's not a free kick like you have.
Speaker 1: You can't do a free kick. No, But there was
Speaker 1: a thing where some teams were literally experimenting, do you
Speaker 1: know what driver off the deck means? Yes, essentially that
Speaker 1: they were just going to put the ball on the grass,
Speaker 1: no tea and kick it because you could make it
Speaker 1: spin a certain way and it made it really hard
Speaker 1: to catch, and it just created a whole other thing
Speaker 1: for the return team to worry about. And then the
Speaker 1: league said, no, the ball has to be upright on
Speaker 1: the tee. But then there was a whole conversation about okay,
Speaker 1: well it has to be upright on the tee. What
Speaker 1: if it's not on the tee, can you kick off
Speaker 1: without a tea? And I don't remember where that conversation went.
Speaker 1: That's another thing we have to ask Springer.
Speaker 2: Okay, so this this is the only show that you're
Speaker 2: going to get ten minutes on the kickoffs. I promise
Speaker 2: you that, like this is the only show in New
Speaker 2: England that is going to talk about the kicks and
Speaker 2: break down the kickoffs like we just did. So you're welcome.
Speaker 2: I hope you enjoyed it. You're welcome. That was just
Speaker 2: for you guys. There. So next week, a couple housekeeping
Speaker 2: things here before we sign off. I am going to
Speaker 2: Minnesota next week for the joint practices. We are going
Speaker 2: to have a show. It's going to be Thursday, four
Speaker 2: to six pm Eastern time because the Vikings practice at
Speaker 2: noon Central time, so there's like time differences. I'm not
Speaker 2: going to try to confuse you guys. It's math. It's hard.
Speaker 2: But we're going to be on from four to six
Speaker 2: Eastern time next Thursday, so we will have a show.
Speaker 2: We will talk about both practices, so we'll have plenty
Speaker 2: of things to talk about. I will which will be
Speaker 2: all well and good and lots of fun. And so
Speaker 2: then we'll see you guys. Then, thanks for watching, thanks
Speaker 2: for listening, Thanks for listening to the special teams talk
Speaker 2: as well. If you're still here with us, and we'll
Speaker 2: see you guys next week.
Speaker 1: Bye.
Speaker 2: Hey, this is deuced. Thanks for tuning into the show.
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Speaker 1: Thanks a lot,