WEBVTT - Ep 105: Mogwai's Stuart Braithwaite 0:00:00.720 --> 0:00:05.040 It's the one riguet I've caught about the band because 0:00:06.920 --> 0:00:07.920 it was a bit brilliant. 0:00:09.200 --> 0:00:12.760 Hello and welcome to Midnight Chats, a podcast of casual 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:17.560 interviews with leading musicians, published weekly and midnight to suit 0:00:17.600 --> 0:00:22.720 these informal and often under research conversations. This week's episode 0:00:22.800 --> 0:00:26.239 is hosted by me Stuart Stubbs, editor of Loud and 0:00:26.320 --> 0:00:30.560 Quiet magazine. Tonight's guest here on the podcast is Stuart Briefwait, 0:00:30.840 --> 0:00:33.920 the leader of Scottish band Maguire, who formed back in 0:00:34.000 --> 0:00:37.479 nineteen ninety five in Glasgow. Over the last year, they've 0:00:37.520 --> 0:00:40.320 been celebrating twenty five years of being a band together, 0:00:40.479 --> 0:00:44.440 which has also seen them release their tenth album, As 0:00:44.440 --> 0:00:47.720 the Love Continues, back in February of this year, twenty 0:00:47.800 --> 0:00:53.280 twenty one. Most importantly, though, that album, quite unexpectedly to 0:00:53.360 --> 0:00:57.200 the band and everyone perhaps went to number one. It 0:00:57.320 --> 0:00:59.800 was the first record the band have released to do so, 0:01:00.160 --> 0:01:03.000 and it's something that Stuart and I talk about on 0:01:03.040 --> 0:01:07.520 this podcast, including what actually happens when you get a 0:01:07.600 --> 0:01:10.800 number one record. We talk about that, We talk about 0:01:10.880 --> 0:01:13.600 the beginnings of Moguai, we talk about some of the 0:01:13.680 --> 0:01:16.800 music that's influenced them as always. There are a bunch 0:01:16.840 --> 0:01:20.360 of links in the description of this episode, including to 0:01:20.440 --> 0:01:23.080 some of the songs that we talk about. Also down 0:01:23.120 --> 0:01:26.560 there is a link to a report from The Guardian 0:01:26.800 --> 0:01:31.160 which contextualize something that Stuart mentions briefly but doesn't go 0:01:31.400 --> 0:01:34.360 into in too much detail. It was an incident that 0:01:34.400 --> 0:01:38.759 happened in two thousand and eight when John Lyden's entourage 0:01:39.520 --> 0:01:44.920 physically attacked Kellyokariki from the band Bloc Party. Thank you 0:01:44.959 --> 0:01:47.720 to Stuart for taking the time. I really enjoyed our 0:01:47.760 --> 0:01:50.440 conversation a couple of weeks ago, and here is in 0:01:50.480 --> 0:01:53.480 fact the first Stuart that we've had on as a guest. 0:01:54.440 --> 0:01:58.240 There's myself, but I don't think I can, although that 0:01:58.280 --> 0:02:00.640 does lead on nicely to where we pick up this 0:02:00.720 --> 0:02:08.600 conversation talking essentially about me. This episode of Midnight Chat 0:02:08.680 --> 0:02:11.880 is supported by Because Music, the record label that's home 0:02:11.919 --> 0:02:16.160 to Jango Django, Charlotte Gainsboor Christine and The Queen's Justice 0:02:16.320 --> 0:02:20.480 and Metronomy, who are in fact the most featured band 0:02:20.680 --> 0:02:23.640 by us here at Loud and Quiet over the fifteen 0:02:23.720 --> 0:02:26.480 years that we've been doing this. Joe Mount has even 0:02:26.520 --> 0:02:29.920 been here on Midnight Chats all the way back in 0:02:30.040 --> 0:02:35.440 episode eight of the podcast. Metronomy have just released a 0:02:35.600 --> 0:02:39.760 special ten year anniversary edition of that album, the English Riviera. 0:02:39.840 --> 0:02:44.119 It features not one, but six previously unreleased songs. It's 0:02:44.120 --> 0:02:49.160 available on limited numbered vinyl, which is heavyweight at a 0:02:49.200 --> 0:02:53.919 whopping one hundred and eighty grams, and the final side 0:02:53.960 --> 0:02:57.000 side D of the double vinyl is not something you 0:02:57.040 --> 0:02:59.840 can even play because it has an etching on it. 0:03:00.320 --> 0:03:01.919 I'm not going to tell you what the etching is. 0:03:02.160 --> 0:03:04.520 You will have to go and pick up a copy 0:03:04.720 --> 0:03:08.160 from your local record store right now. Thank you too, 0:03:08.440 --> 0:03:11.880 because for supporting Loud and Quiet over the years and 0:03:12.200 --> 0:03:15.760 this episode of Midnight Chats. I mean, it's twenty five 0:03:15.840 --> 0:03:17.799 years of more quie I'm guessing is this the thing 0:03:17.800 --> 0:03:19.880 that you've been mainly speaking to people about at the moment. 0:03:20.120 --> 0:03:22.119 No, not really. People are more interested in the fact 0:03:22.120 --> 0:03:24.240 that we've got a number one album than we've been 0:03:24.280 --> 0:03:28.119 going for ages. But yeah, I'm fine chatting. But both 0:03:28.160 --> 0:03:35.560 are pretty good things. It's actually no, almost twenty six years. 0:03:35.480 --> 0:03:39.240 Because you've formed in ninety five, right, yes, So what 0:03:39.400 --> 0:03:42.040 I mean I mean, firstly, like, how do you having 0:03:42.080 --> 0:03:45.800 reached that milestone of twenty five, not that it necessarily 0:03:45.840 --> 0:03:48.280 means a lot more than twenty four years, but how 0:03:48.320 --> 0:03:52.160 do you how do you feel about it that having 0:03:52.200 --> 0:03:53.160 gone that long. 0:03:53.120 --> 0:03:56.160 Feel great to be honest, really really good, and like 0:03:56.720 --> 0:03:59.080 I think maybe I think maybe because we're in quite 0:03:59.080 --> 0:04:05.480 a good place just now, that colors my perception of it. 0:04:05.920 --> 0:04:09.360 Maybe if we weren't having the greatest year, or people 0:04:09.440 --> 0:04:13.000 hadn't been as receptive to our last record or something, 0:04:13.000 --> 0:04:15.960 I'd maybe be like, oh God, maybe we've overstaid a 0:04:16.000 --> 0:04:19.960 welcome But things seem to be going well, and yeah, 0:04:19.960 --> 0:04:20.880 we're in a good place. 0:04:21.279 --> 0:04:24.159 I suppose. The reason I asked that is my own 0:04:24.400 --> 0:04:28.320 insecurity projecting here is that because the magazine that we 0:04:28.400 --> 0:04:32.080 make is in its sixteenth year at the moment, And 0:04:32.160 --> 0:04:35.440 yet I feel quite conflicted by that in a way, 0:04:35.440 --> 0:04:37.320 because as part of me that thinks, isn't that amazing 0:04:37.360 --> 0:04:40.080 We've done this thing, It's made it last this long, 0:04:40.400 --> 0:04:42.720 and it's still going and people are still interested in 0:04:42.760 --> 0:04:45.560 it and all the positive things. I certainly think that, 0:04:46.040 --> 0:04:49.520 but there's also this devil on my shoulder that's also 0:04:49.640 --> 0:04:52.279 kind of maybe a little bit embarrassed that I haven't 0:04:52.760 --> 0:04:55.160 done something else that I've not moved on that I'm 0:04:55.200 --> 0:04:57.200 still doing this thing I start when I was so young. 0:04:57.600 --> 0:05:01.279 No, no, I kind of get a little bit and 0:05:01.520 --> 0:05:05.479 I do know. I mean a really good pal of mine, Stewart, 0:05:05.680 --> 0:05:10.760 who was in the Delgados and part of Chemiconderground, he 0:05:11.080 --> 0:05:14.880 quit music to become a fireman, and I think that 0:05:15.040 --> 0:05:17.440 was kind of I can't. I think that was just 0:05:17.520 --> 0:05:19.280 kind of thinking. It was like, I want to do 0:05:19.400 --> 0:05:22.840 something because you get in this bubble, don't you, in 0:05:23.120 --> 0:05:27.880 the music world, and you think things are so important 0:05:28.080 --> 0:05:32.560 and gets so wound up of it stuff, and then 0:05:32.960 --> 0:05:35.359 you don't have to take too many steps back to 0:05:35.480 --> 0:05:41.960 be like it doesn't matter at all, Like your average 0:05:42.000 --> 0:05:46.760 person doesn't know who's number one and buys one record 0:05:46.760 --> 0:05:53.960 a year. It's kind but yeah, it's I would probably 0:05:54.000 --> 0:05:59.160 be more prone to that kind of thinking if there 0:05:59.320 --> 0:06:03.200 was anything thing else I could do. Literally, all I 0:06:03.200 --> 0:06:04.680 can do is play the guitar. 0:06:04.880 --> 0:06:09.440 And skateboarding, right, you could just become a pro skype. 0:06:10.800 --> 0:06:17.120 I really could not become a pro scare. I love skateboarding, 0:06:17.160 --> 0:06:20.560 but it's kind of like, yeah, it's just something that 0:06:20.600 --> 0:06:25.920 I really it's it's like people that I don't know 0:06:26.120 --> 0:06:29.440 get together with their mates and play red to Chili 0:06:29.440 --> 0:06:32.600 Peppers covers, you know, like they adore that and I 0:06:32.600 --> 0:06:41.960 wouldn't take that away from them. But that's me skateboarding. 0:06:41.360 --> 0:06:45.560 I'm I'm just rolling about and alling up small curbs 0:06:45.600 --> 0:06:49.359 with my equally old pals. I guess, I guess the 0:06:49.440 --> 0:06:51.960 music there is that kind of a lot of people 0:06:52.000 --> 0:06:54.000 do kind of go what God, what am I doing? 0:06:54.080 --> 0:06:57.560 And it gets tough as well to be honest in 0:06:57.680 --> 0:07:01.559 your shoes. I mean, I would just be so proud 0:07:01.600 --> 0:07:04.760 of keeping going, you know, like it couldn't be a 0:07:04.800 --> 0:07:11.760 more challenging environment to be making a print music magazine. 0:07:12.320 --> 0:07:14.600 You know. Yeah, no, it's true. This is making me 0:07:14.600 --> 0:07:23.320 feel better, Stuart, thank you today. I think it's also 0:07:23.440 --> 0:07:28.120 just about I think it's also maybe that question of 0:07:28.320 --> 0:07:31.840 time slipping away and whilst I'm doing whilst you're doing 0:07:31.840 --> 0:07:33.440 one thing. I don't mean just me in this, and 0:07:33.480 --> 0:07:35.360 I don't want it to sound like people listen to 0:07:35.400 --> 0:07:38.080 this thinking to this guy moaning about this great thing 0:07:38.120 --> 0:07:40.720 that he does. And I do genuinely love what I do, 0:07:42.240 --> 0:07:44.760 but it's also whilst doing one thing, when you commit, 0:07:45.240 --> 0:07:48.200 when you go all in on one thing, there's part 0:07:48.200 --> 0:07:50.360 of you that can't help but to think of all 0:07:50.360 --> 0:07:53.680 the things you're not trying, you know, Like I'm like you, 0:07:53.720 --> 0:07:55.720 there's nothing else I want to do as something else 0:07:55.720 --> 0:07:58.240 I think i'd be any good at. But there's part 0:07:58.320 --> 0:08:00.560 of my brain it thinks maybe I would be the 0:08:00.560 --> 0:08:03.560 best plumber in the world. Maybe I'd love plumbing if 0:08:03.600 --> 0:08:06.800 I just went and did that, you know. 0:08:07.240 --> 0:08:09.640 I mean, I've I've had to try plumbing and I'm 0:08:09.840 --> 0:08:14.440 absolutely shut Yeah, just like ended up like flooding the 0:08:14.480 --> 0:08:16.800 house and having to spend five hundred quid for some 0:08:16.840 --> 0:08:20.160 guy to come and fix the mistakes I've made. So yeah, 0:08:20.400 --> 0:08:23.120 I'm fairly staring and I'm rubbish at everything apart from 0:08:23.120 --> 0:08:27.000 playing guitar, although sometimes sometimes I'll see someone playing guitar 0:08:27.000 --> 0:08:29.360 and I'll think I'm crap at that too, But yeah, 0:08:29.440 --> 0:08:31.560 I try and bury those I bury those starts. 0:08:33.320 --> 0:08:35.880 So take me back to nineteen ninety five when you 0:08:35.960 --> 0:08:39.880 guys started. What was the what was the musical kind 0:08:39.920 --> 0:08:42.640 of landscape? I guess, what was the scene in Glasgow? 0:08:43.120 --> 0:08:47.240 What world were you going into as mog Quair, What 0:08:47.320 --> 0:08:49.600 type of bands were out there? What was the thing. 0:08:51.000 --> 0:08:54.880 It was? It was good actually the kind of the 0:08:54.960 --> 0:08:58.240 mainstream culture kind of grunge. It kind of fuzzled out 0:08:58.280 --> 0:09:05.600 and everything was Brett pop and that wasn't I'm sure 0:09:05.600 --> 0:09:09.520 you can guess, wasn't really our bag. So we kind 0:09:09.559 --> 0:09:12.320 of weren't interested in the kind of mainstream culture. And 0:09:12.320 --> 0:09:15.439 then and the and the the Glasgow music scene was great. 0:09:15.520 --> 0:09:20.920 Actually there was a very scene based around the thirteenth 0:09:21.080 --> 0:09:24.480 not Alex from Who's now in Franz Ferdinand used to 0:09:24.480 --> 0:09:28.880 book the bands there, so his band the Blisters would 0:09:28.880 --> 0:09:36.840 play Urisayatsura, Pink Cross, the Yummy for Delgado's spar Snaire 0:09:36.880 --> 0:09:41.160 from Dundee This We're kicking off. They were, so they 0:09:41.160 --> 0:09:44.959 were like the kind of the band from our scene 0:09:45.000 --> 0:09:49.120 that had kind of like amazingly gone on top of 0:09:49.120 --> 0:09:52.640 the pops and left Chemical Underground to go to Grand Royal. 0:09:52.800 --> 0:09:58.439 And so there was there was stuff happening, but Glasgow 0:09:58.480 --> 0:10:00.960 was very much a backwater then there wasn't I remember 0:10:01.559 --> 0:10:03.400 the best thing being a big deal because people were 0:10:03.400 --> 0:10:06.320 coming up to see the other bands and that hadn't 0:10:06.320 --> 0:10:08.360 really happened before. So there was a kind of like 0:10:08.480 --> 0:10:12.360 scene kind of bubbling away, but without anyone having any 0:10:12.400 --> 0:10:15.960 expectation of getting signed to a label. Or even like 0:10:16.520 --> 0:10:18.760 going on a big tour or anything. I think like 0:10:19.880 --> 0:10:22.560 everything that was pretty diy. Everyone was starting their own 0:10:22.640 --> 0:10:25.800 label to put their own seven inches and that's that's 0:10:25.840 --> 0:10:28.000 what we did. That's how we started Rock Action was 0:10:28.040 --> 0:10:31.360 to put out our first small gway seven So so 0:10:31.960 --> 0:10:36.760 it was good, but it was very very No one 0:10:36.800 --> 0:10:41.080 had any real expectations. It was kind of quite pure 0:10:41.120 --> 0:10:43.920 and in that way is when people were just doing 0:10:43.960 --> 0:10:46.520 their own thing and going to see all our friends 0:10:46.640 --> 0:10:51.200 bands and maybe going to see some bigger touring bands. 0:10:51.240 --> 0:10:54.200 So people were kind of making connections. I know, like 0:10:54.200 --> 0:10:56.640 like the Yummy Fur people kind of had connections with 0:10:56.720 --> 0:11:00.800 like some of the bands from Olympia. I know they 0:11:00.840 --> 0:11:03.080 played with like Slayer Kenny. I know I'm probably now 0:11:03.200 --> 0:11:06.199 jumping out years ahead or whatever, but there was kind 0:11:06.280 --> 0:11:11.600 of connections. But it wasn't pre Internet. The idea of 0:11:11.640 --> 0:11:14.240 like your band getting signed and going in specially of 0:11:14.280 --> 0:11:18.600 your band wearing mainstream it wasn't really a possibility. 0:11:18.920 --> 0:11:22.280 The whole scene up there was that all quite removed 0:11:22.280 --> 0:11:25.760 from britpop in the way that you guys were in 0:11:25.800 --> 0:11:29.240 their own ways. Were all those bands kind of pushing against. 0:11:28.920 --> 0:11:31.520 That in a way. I mean I know best. I know. 0:11:31.679 --> 0:11:35.560 I know Stephen quite liked liked Blur, but he didn't. 0:11:35.960 --> 0:11:39.720 They weren't copying them, you know, like yeah, people were 0:11:39.800 --> 0:11:42.520 just doing their own thing. I think people in Glasgow 0:11:42.559 --> 0:11:49.440 maybe felt more connected to American underground music like Sonic 0:11:49.480 --> 0:11:53.320 Youth and a Sonic Youth like invited Pink Cross to 0:11:53.320 --> 0:11:55.520 play with them, so there was the kind of like 0:11:57.080 --> 0:11:59.959 that kind of connection. People maybe looked across the Atlanta 0:12:00.400 --> 0:12:02.480 rather than so much down to London when there was 0:12:02.520 --> 0:12:04.360 cool stuff in London too. Back then. I remember that 0:12:04.400 --> 0:12:09.840 band like Quick Space and Ligament were obviously great. So 0:12:10.600 --> 0:12:12.800 it was definitely an interesting time. It's kind of it's 0:12:12.880 --> 0:12:18.480 kind of weird explaining or trying to explain this to 0:12:18.559 --> 0:12:22.440 like young people now because pre Internet the world was 0:12:22.559 --> 0:12:25.800 very different. Yeah, yeah, you know, I mean there's there's 0:12:25.880 --> 0:12:30.240 there's probably quite a strong argument that if it wasn't 0:12:30.240 --> 0:12:35.200 for John Peel, the bands from that time in Glasgow 0:12:36.000 --> 0:12:39.480 would never have done anything. You know, Like John like 0:12:39.760 --> 0:12:48.920 really got behind Delgado's this Arab Strap, beiln Sebastian Usaas, 0:12:48.920 --> 0:12:51.240 who are all these all these bands, like he kind 0:12:51.280 --> 0:12:56.880 of championed them and it wasn't it It went just 0:12:56.960 --> 0:13:00.560 beyond playing the songs on the radio. The other thing 0:13:01.400 --> 0:13:03.559 was the sessions, like if you've got a Peel session. 0:13:04.400 --> 0:13:06.600 I can't remember how much money it was. I think 0:13:06.600 --> 0:13:09.920 it was six hundred quid and that that's a lot 0:13:09.920 --> 0:13:12.040 of money. That's a lot of money when you're either 0:13:12.520 --> 0:13:16.520 living in a bed set or with your parents, you know, 0:13:17.160 --> 0:13:23.199 So that the money from those sessions was really important 0:13:23.520 --> 0:13:26.439 to kind of give bands money to press up seven inches, 0:13:26.960 --> 0:13:30.520 to go down to London to play more people, to 0:13:30.800 --> 0:13:33.840 get seen by any emaild maker, all that kind of stuff. 0:13:33.880 --> 0:13:37.360 And yeah, he really he really had a huge part 0:13:37.360 --> 0:13:37.720 to play. 0:13:37.840 --> 0:13:40.760 I didn't realized that they that there would have been 0:13:40.760 --> 0:13:43.400 a fae attached to a Pale session. I wonder, I 0:13:43.400 --> 0:13:45.520 wonder if that's I'm guessing that's not the case now 0:13:45.600 --> 0:13:48.000 at six music or whatever. If you if you go 0:13:48.040 --> 0:13:50.880 and play, it's for the promo of playing, right. 0:13:51.480 --> 0:13:53.240 I think that is the case, which I think is 0:13:53.280 --> 0:13:55.840 a bit of a shame actually, because I think it's 0:13:55.880 --> 0:13:59.720 a big help to to young young and you. 0:14:00.760 --> 0:14:04.440 Yeah, it's funny, well, like what you were just saying about, 0:14:04.440 --> 0:14:07.440 like obviously the Internet has just connected everyone in such 0:14:07.440 --> 0:14:10.640 a lightning speed way that wasn't back then, And I 0:14:10.679 --> 0:14:14.520 was thinking Godspeed had started around the same time as 0:14:14.559 --> 0:14:18.480 you guys, but away over in Canada in Montreal, Like, 0:14:18.800 --> 0:14:21.240 would you have would you have been aware of them 0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:24.080 and what they were doing and that that that they 0:14:24.200 --> 0:14:26.840 was kind of this just similar kind of vibe between 0:14:26.880 --> 0:14:29.360 you or would would that not have even reached you 0:14:29.440 --> 0:14:31.480 back then because there would just been nowhere of you 0:14:31.560 --> 0:14:33.080 hearing it without going there. 0:14:33.320 --> 0:14:36.960 Well, I didn't hear them till their album came out. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:14:36.960 --> 0:14:38.920 I didn't hear them till their album come out. I 0:14:38.920 --> 0:14:42.080 mean I'm guessing if, yeah, nowadays you would know about 0:14:42.120 --> 0:14:44.480 a band like that, I mean there were there's such 0:14:44.520 --> 0:14:49.000 a such a great band and clearly influenced by so 0:14:49.080 --> 0:14:51.000 much of the same music as us. Yeah you would, 0:14:51.080 --> 0:14:54.800 you would hear about them. But even that was kind 0:14:54.800 --> 0:14:57.200 of cool. Like I remember we played with them and 0:14:57.240 --> 0:15:00.440 like we all got on stage and did a big 0:15:00.480 --> 0:15:04.760 noise sham. It was awesome how we first met. I'm 0:15:04.760 --> 0:15:07.680 trying this is now going back. Maybe play the gig 0:15:07.720 --> 0:15:12.160 together in Belgium or something. Right, Yeah, they're actually a 0:15:12.160 --> 0:15:14.320 lot of fun. Those people are a lot more fun 0:15:14.360 --> 0:15:16.600 than they probably won't anyone. 0:15:16.320 --> 0:15:24.880 To keep that quiet. I saw a tweet from you. 0:15:25.240 --> 0:15:29.040 It was you mentioned like it was when Spider Lamb 0:15:29.080 --> 0:15:31.920 by Slint had turned thirty, and you said a tweet 0:15:31.960 --> 0:15:33.880 saying that you can remember the first time you heard 0:15:34.040 --> 0:15:37.080 washing by Them, you were driving your car and you 0:15:37.120 --> 0:15:38.040 nearly crushed your car. 0:15:38.320 --> 0:15:42.640 Yeah, is that true. Yeah? I can even remember exactly 0:15:42.680 --> 0:15:45.360 where it was in the motorway. I remember just like 0:15:45.720 --> 0:15:53.480 being completely entranced and like forgetting to drive, like I got. 0:15:53.720 --> 0:15:55.720 I was so into I was like, oh my god, 0:15:55.800 --> 0:15:59.080 this is like this is like the perfect music. This 0:15:59.160 --> 0:16:00.160 is amazing. 0:16:00.680 --> 0:16:05.800 Yeah, at the moment you I'm guessing was that case 0:16:05.800 --> 0:16:08.480 that you'd never heard anything like that before? Did it 0:16:08.600 --> 0:16:12.400 just sound so so different and new to what you heard? 0:16:12.880 --> 0:16:15.320 Yeah, it was pretty different, but it's also it's also 0:16:15.440 --> 0:16:21.920 really good, you know, Like I think Dominic it was 0:16:22.040 --> 0:16:24.040 on a tape Dominic gave me, and I think Dominic 0:16:24.200 --> 0:16:27.720 was more he was more in an undergrade music of 0:16:27.760 --> 0:16:29.560 the time, like I was kind of more in a 0:16:29.720 --> 0:16:33.240 like undergrade music of the sixties and seventies. So like 0:16:33.400 --> 0:16:37.080 we kind of like our record collections could have We're 0:16:37.160 --> 0:16:39.000 quite similar, but from different decades. 0:16:39.760 --> 0:16:42.320 So this is this is just as you're forming the band. 0:16:42.360 --> 0:16:44.200 You've just started the band around this time when you 0:16:44.320 --> 0:16:47.680 nearly crash your car, right yes, yeah, yeah? And did 0:16:47.720 --> 0:16:50.320 you did you know at that point? Was that a 0:16:50.400 --> 0:16:52.640 moment where you thought you wanted to not that you 0:16:53.760 --> 0:16:55.720 not that you make the same music as slind, but 0:16:56.880 --> 0:16:58.800 what you knew the type of did you know the 0:16:58.840 --> 0:16:59.960 type of music you wanted to make? 0:17:00.120 --> 0:17:03.280 Could what? I mean? We had a few bands that 0:17:03.320 --> 0:17:06.000 we were really into, and we kind of we were 0:17:06.040 --> 0:17:08.879 really into the God Machine, We were really into my 0:17:09.000 --> 0:17:14.720 Bloody Valentine and Joy Division, and I think a lot 0:17:14.720 --> 0:17:18.240 of this was us trying to do something like something, 0:17:18.359 --> 0:17:21.160 but we couldn't really play properly, so it just kind 0:17:21.160 --> 0:17:23.960 of came out a bit wonky, do I mean, like 0:17:23.840 --> 0:17:29.639 like those other bands were obsessed with, like Bardo Pond, 0:17:29.720 --> 0:17:32.360 Like remember hearing Bardo That was another band. I heard 0:17:32.359 --> 0:17:35.680 Bardo Pond on John Peel on the radio driving about 0:17:35.680 --> 0:17:37.520 and God almost crashed my car. When I heard that, 0:17:37.600 --> 0:17:42.120 I was like, this is next level, honestly. I mean 0:17:42.119 --> 0:17:43.680 I did actually crash my car well a lot in 0:17:43.720 --> 0:17:46.560 the nineties, but most of it was due to ineptitude 0:17:46.640 --> 0:17:50.840 rather than than hearing really good music. But what we're 0:17:50.880 --> 0:17:53.919 kind of trying to do was like do something like 0:17:54.320 --> 0:18:01.119 emotional like Joy Division or God Machine, but maybe with 0:18:01.200 --> 0:18:05.879 some of the like drones and kind of interesting sounds 0:18:05.920 --> 0:18:08.880 of tor toys. But a lot of this was kind 0:18:08.880 --> 0:18:14.160 of done quite accidentally because we couldn't really play that well, right, 0:18:14.520 --> 0:18:19.680 you know, like we were learning. We were learning on 0:18:19.800 --> 0:18:22.640 the on the job, you know, which in a weird way, 0:18:22.640 --> 0:18:24.880 and I think that actually happened with Joy Division two. 0:18:25.000 --> 0:18:30.159 You know, learning while you're working out what you're doing 0:18:30.640 --> 0:18:33.919 can be quite you can come up with some interesting things. 0:18:34.520 --> 0:18:38.200 There's a lot to be said for not being properly trained. 0:18:38.400 --> 0:18:43.119 Yeah, there's a lot of those happy accidents. It's like 0:18:43.119 --> 0:18:46.640 like that thing about bands like like the Velvet Underground 0:18:46.720 --> 0:18:49.400 not wanting to practice too much or the sex Pistols 0:18:49.480 --> 0:18:51.720 not wanting to practice too much because I didn't want 0:18:51.720 --> 0:18:54.159 to get better because it would lose the thing and 0:18:54.200 --> 0:18:57.439 it wasn't about Yeah, although I suppose that's more of 0:18:57.520 --> 0:19:01.120 just a punk mentality ruling over anything else. 0:19:01.720 --> 0:19:03.919 Yeah, there's a bit of a myth that sex Pistoles 0:19:03.920 --> 0:19:07.680 couldn't play. They were pretty good players, and like the Velvets, 0:19:08.520 --> 0:19:10.840 I mean John Kele's like a virtue also, but yeah, 0:19:11.760 --> 0:19:16.000 Lou Reed's had a very distinct style. Will Tucker is 0:19:16.080 --> 0:19:18.960 just doing her own thing. I mean, they're probably my 0:19:19.000 --> 0:19:22.040 favorite band of all time. Like that, I've almost got 0:19:22.080 --> 0:19:25.520 like a religious view of the Velvet Underground that's probably 0:19:25.560 --> 0:19:29.760 like completely detached to what it was actually like. I 0:19:29.920 --> 0:19:32.160 just kind of have this idea of it just being 0:19:32.200 --> 0:19:39.560 this kind of like one in a million, absolute lightning 0:19:40.040 --> 0:19:43.440 bolt of weird psychedelic perfection. 0:19:44.040 --> 0:19:47.280 Did you ever get to see Lou Reid play? 0:19:47.600 --> 0:19:49.800 Yeah? I so a few. I actually saw the Velvets too, 0:19:49.960 --> 0:19:55.639 So I saw the reunion show that I loved it, 0:19:56.080 --> 0:19:59.000 but I was very young, so I think I just 0:19:59.480 --> 0:20:01.479 was excited a bit the occasion. I know a lot 0:20:01.520 --> 0:20:06.440 of people didn't enjoy it because lou sang weird? 0:20:07.040 --> 0:20:09.840 Did he sing weird? In because I saw Lou Reid 0:20:09.960 --> 0:20:13.560 just once? And when you say sang wed, did he did? 0:20:13.640 --> 0:20:16.720 When I saw him, he would do. He would He 0:20:16.760 --> 0:20:19.480 did do some weird singing, But by that I mean 0:20:20.119 --> 0:20:22.520 he would just play the songs that you When it 0:20:22.560 --> 0:20:24.200 got to a song that you really wanted to hear, 0:20:24.440 --> 0:20:26.320 he would just do a really strange version of it. 0:20:26.680 --> 0:20:30.119 Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what he did. But it was 0:20:30.119 --> 0:20:32.280 a revery of underground show. So every song was one 0:20:32.280 --> 0:20:33.240 that you really wanted to hear. 0:20:33.480 --> 0:20:34.920 Sure, Okay, So like. 0:20:35.080 --> 0:20:37.679 The one I remember quite clearly was was Venus and 0:20:37.720 --> 0:20:41.600 Furs and he just go shiny shiny, shiny, shiny but 0:20:41.720 --> 0:20:45.320 a leather and like not sang the rhythm. Even though 0:20:45.320 --> 0:20:48.680 it's a really rhythmical song. He would almost kind of 0:20:49.200 --> 0:20:52.520 purposefully sang the wrong rhythm. I mean, I was just 0:20:53.080 --> 0:20:55.200 still just feeling it was just the fact I was 0:20:55.240 --> 0:21:00.560 watching John Cale and Stale and Morrison and Motucker. Yeah, 0:21:00.760 --> 0:21:03.440 but yeah, I think he kind of semi sabotaged it. 0:21:03.720 --> 0:21:05.879 I mean, I mean Bob Dellan does that as well. 0:21:05.960 --> 0:21:11.080 It's quite a weird old old dudes tree. You know. 0:21:11.280 --> 0:21:14.000 It's like almost like the opposite of the cure. You know, 0:21:14.119 --> 0:21:18.560 like Robert like really puts every effort into making it 0:21:18.680 --> 0:21:21.639 sounds as good as possible, and like Bob Dillan's just 0:21:21.680 --> 0:21:22.240 like fuck it. 0:21:26.600 --> 0:21:29.840 Yeah, really he really resents playing the show. It's as 0:21:29.840 --> 0:21:31.760 if he's like it's. 0:21:31.680 --> 0:21:34.760 Kind of weird because he can't really because he doesn't 0:21:34.800 --> 0:21:36.200 have to do it, doesn't. 0:21:35.960 --> 0:21:40.239 Have That's what's strange about it, right, whereas like it 0:21:40.280 --> 0:21:43.959 makes me think what was going through like lou Reed's 0:21:44.000 --> 0:21:48.000 head to do that. I mean, and also do you 0:21:48.000 --> 0:21:49.879 think the band were on board with that? Do you 0:21:49.920 --> 0:21:51.679 think the rest of the PAM were like, well, this 0:21:51.800 --> 0:21:53.399 is just what he wants to do, so we're just 0:21:53.400 --> 0:21:55.920 going to do that because we're just playing these shows 0:21:56.280 --> 0:21:57.359 for the for the cash. 0:21:57.400 --> 0:22:00.760 I guess, I don't know. I don't think he seems 0:22:00.800 --> 0:22:02.560 like the kind of person you would want to give 0:22:02.600 --> 0:22:07.000 a roud to do. Well. I really don't know it. 0:22:07.040 --> 0:22:08.680 And the weird thing about it, I mean, I don't 0:22:08.680 --> 0:22:12.160 know if you play music, but to play a song 0:22:12.280 --> 0:22:16.439 that you've been playing your whole life completely differently on 0:22:16.560 --> 0:22:21.040 purpose would be really hard. Like if I don't know, 0:22:21.040 --> 0:22:23.960 if like we suddenly decided we were going to like 0:22:24.920 --> 0:22:26.440 play mog wife you're saying, but I was going to 0:22:26.520 --> 0:22:28.480 try and play all the bits kind of like reggae 0:22:28.520 --> 0:22:31.879 or something. I mean, a would be a would be horrendous, 0:22:31.960 --> 0:22:34.760 but be it would be really difficult, Like it would 0:22:34.800 --> 0:22:36.520 be much easier to just keep playing the way it's 0:22:36.520 --> 0:22:37.000 always been. 0:22:37.880 --> 0:22:41.480 Yeah, goes to show just how much he wanted to 0:22:41.480 --> 0:22:44.800 be difficult. He was so determined to be difficult. He 0:22:44.880 --> 0:22:46.200 was willing to try that hard. 0:22:46.359 --> 0:22:48.400 I was going to say he actually once asked us 0:22:48.560 --> 0:22:52.919 to to to play with him, to do some like 0:22:53.600 --> 0:22:56.879 noise jam, and we didn't do it for such a 0:22:56.960 --> 0:23:00.920 rubbish reason that it's it's the one regret I've got 0:23:01.640 --> 0:23:07.800 about the band, because it would be brilliant. Well, I 0:23:07.800 --> 0:23:10.080 think we had the studio books, we booked the studio, 0:23:10.119 --> 0:23:13.359 and we would have had to like move the recording 0:23:13.440 --> 0:23:16.359 of our seventh album by a couple of months or something, 0:23:16.400 --> 0:23:18.679 And I don't know. That's kind of like, you know, 0:23:18.720 --> 0:23:20.399 we were talking right at the start of this about 0:23:20.400 --> 0:23:24.680 how you get so wrapped up and stuff, and you 0:23:24.680 --> 0:23:26.399 you take a step back and you're like, what the 0:23:26.440 --> 0:23:28.639 hell do I mean? Like, now I'm thinking about it, 0:23:28.720 --> 0:23:31.520