Speaker 1: It's the one riguet I've caught about the band because
Speaker 1: it was a bit brilliant.
Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to Midnight Chats, a podcast of casual
Speaker 2: interviews with leading musicians, published weekly and midnight to suit
Speaker 2: these informal and often under research conversations. This week's episode
Speaker 2: is hosted by me Stuart Stubbs, editor of Loud and
Speaker 2: Quiet magazine. Tonight's guest here on the podcast is Stuart Briefwait,
Speaker 2: the leader of Scottish band Maguire, who formed back in
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety five in Glasgow. Over the last year, they've
Speaker 2: been celebrating twenty five years of being a band together,
Speaker 2: which has also seen them release their tenth album, As
Speaker 2: the Love Continues, back in February of this year, twenty
Speaker 2: twenty one. Most importantly, though, that album, quite unexpectedly to
Speaker 2: the band and everyone perhaps went to number one. It
Speaker 2: was the first record the band have released to do so,
Speaker 2: and it's something that Stuart and I talk about on
Speaker 2: this podcast, including what actually happens when you get a
Speaker 2: number one record. We talk about that, We talk about
Speaker 2: the beginnings of Moguai, we talk about some of the
Speaker 2: music that's influenced them as always. There are a bunch
Speaker 2: of links in the description of this episode, including to
Speaker 2: some of the songs that we talk about. Also down
Speaker 2: there is a link to a report from The Guardian
Speaker 2: which contextualize something that Stuart mentions briefly but doesn't go
Speaker 2: into in too much detail. It was an incident that
Speaker 2: happened in two thousand and eight when John Lyden's entourage
Speaker 2: physically attacked Kellyokariki from the band Bloc Party. Thank you
Speaker 2: to Stuart for taking the time. I really enjoyed our
Speaker 2: conversation a couple of weeks ago, and here is in
Speaker 2: fact the first Stuart that we've had on as a guest.
Speaker 2: There's myself, but I don't think I can, although that
Speaker 2: does lead on nicely to where we pick up this
Speaker 2: conversation talking essentially about me. This episode of Midnight Chat
Speaker 2: is supported by Because Music, the record label that's home
Speaker 2: to Jango Django, Charlotte Gainsboor Christine and The Queen's Justice
Speaker 2: and Metronomy, who are in fact the most featured band
Speaker 2: by us here at Loud and Quiet over the fifteen
Speaker 2: years that we've been doing this. Joe Mount has even
Speaker 2: been here on Midnight Chats all the way back in
Speaker 2: episode eight of the podcast. Metronomy have just released a
Speaker 2: special ten year anniversary edition of that album, the English Riviera.
Speaker 2: It features not one, but six previously unreleased songs. It's
Speaker 2: available on limited numbered vinyl, which is heavyweight at a
Speaker 2: whopping one hundred and eighty grams, and the final side
Speaker 2: side D of the double vinyl is not something you
Speaker 2: can even play because it has an etching on it.
Speaker 2: I'm not going to tell you what the etching is.
Speaker 2: You will have to go and pick up a copy
Speaker 2: from your local record store right now. Thank you too,
Speaker 2: because for supporting Loud and Quiet over the years and
Speaker 2: this episode of Midnight Chats. I mean, it's twenty five
Speaker 2: years of more quie I'm guessing is this the thing
Speaker 2: that you've been mainly speaking to people about at the moment.
Speaker 1: No, not really. People are more interested in the fact
Speaker 1: that we've got a number one album than we've been
Speaker 1: going for ages. But yeah, I'm fine chatting. But both
Speaker 1: are pretty good things. It's actually no, almost twenty six years.
Speaker 2: Because you've formed in ninety five, right, yes, So what
Speaker 2: I mean I mean, firstly, like, how do you having
Speaker 2: reached that milestone of twenty five, not that it necessarily
Speaker 2: means a lot more than twenty four years, but how
Speaker 2: do you how do you feel about it that having
Speaker 2: gone that long.
Speaker 1: Feel great to be honest, really really good, and like
Speaker 1: I think maybe I think maybe because we're in quite
Speaker 1: a good place just now, that colors my perception of it.
Speaker 1: Maybe if we weren't having the greatest year, or people
Speaker 1: hadn't been as receptive to our last record or something,
Speaker 1: I'd maybe be like, oh God, maybe we've overstaid a
Speaker 1: welcome But things seem to be going well, and yeah,
Speaker 1: we're in a good place.
Speaker 2: I suppose. The reason I asked that is my own
Speaker 2: insecurity projecting here is that because the magazine that we
Speaker 2: make is in its sixteenth year at the moment, And
Speaker 2: yet I feel quite conflicted by that in a way,
Speaker 2: because as part of me that thinks, isn't that amazing
Speaker 2: We've done this thing, It's made it last this long,
Speaker 2: and it's still going and people are still interested in
Speaker 2: it and all the positive things. I certainly think that,
Speaker 2: but there's also this devil on my shoulder that's also
Speaker 2: kind of maybe a little bit embarrassed that I haven't
Speaker 2: done something else that I've not moved on that I'm
Speaker 2: still doing this thing I start when I was so young.
Speaker 1: No, no, I kind of get a little bit and
Speaker 1: I do know. I mean a really good pal of mine, Stewart,
Speaker 1: who was in the Delgados and part of Chemiconderground, he
Speaker 1: quit music to become a fireman, and I think that
Speaker 1: was kind of I can't. I think that was just
Speaker 1: kind of thinking. It was like, I want to do
Speaker 1: something because you get in this bubble, don't you, in
Speaker 1: the music world, and you think things are so important
Speaker 1: and gets so wound up of it stuff, and then
Speaker 1: you don't have to take too many steps back to
Speaker 1: be like it doesn't matter at all, Like your average
Speaker 1: person doesn't know who's number one and buys one record
Speaker 1: a year. It's kind but yeah, it's I would probably
Speaker 1: be more prone to that kind of thinking if there
Speaker 1: was anything thing else I could do. Literally, all I
Speaker 1: can do is play the guitar.
Speaker 2: And skateboarding, right, you could just become a pro skype.
Speaker 1: I really could not become a pro scare. I love skateboarding,
Speaker 1: but it's kind of like, yeah, it's just something that
Speaker 1: I really it's it's like people that I don't know
Speaker 1: get together with their mates and play red to Chili
Speaker 1: Peppers covers, you know, like they adore that and I
Speaker 1: wouldn't take that away from them. But that's me skateboarding.
Speaker 1: I'm I'm just rolling about and alling up small curbs
Speaker 1: with my equally old pals. I guess, I guess the
Speaker 1: music there is that kind of a lot of people
Speaker 1: do kind of go what God, what am I doing?
Speaker 1: And it gets tough as well to be honest in
Speaker 1: your shoes. I mean, I would just be so proud
Speaker 1: of keeping going, you know, like it couldn't be a
Speaker 1: more challenging environment to be making a print music magazine.
Speaker 2: You know. Yeah, no, it's true. This is making me
Speaker 2: feel better, Stuart, thank you today. I think it's also
Speaker 2: just about I think it's also maybe that question of
Speaker 2: time slipping away and whilst I'm doing whilst you're doing
Speaker 2: one thing. I don't mean just me in this, and
Speaker 2: I don't want it to sound like people listen to
Speaker 2: this thinking to this guy moaning about this great thing
Speaker 2: that he does. And I do genuinely love what I do,
Speaker 2: but it's also whilst doing one thing, when you commit,
Speaker 2: when you go all in on one thing, there's part
Speaker 2: of you that can't help but to think of all
Speaker 2: the things you're not trying, you know, Like I'm like you,
Speaker 2: there's nothing else I want to do as something else
Speaker 2: I think i'd be any good at. But there's part
Speaker 2: of my brain it thinks maybe I would be the
Speaker 2: best plumber in the world. Maybe I'd love plumbing if
Speaker 2: I just went and did that, you know.
Speaker 1: I mean, I've I've had to try plumbing and I'm
Speaker 1: absolutely shut Yeah, just like ended up like flooding the
Speaker 1: house and having to spend five hundred quid for some
Speaker 1: guy to come and fix the mistakes I've made. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm fairly staring and I'm rubbish at everything apart from
Speaker 1: playing guitar, although sometimes sometimes I'll see someone playing guitar
Speaker 1: and I'll think I'm crap at that too, But yeah,
Speaker 1: I try and bury those I bury those starts.
Speaker 2: So take me back to nineteen ninety five when you
Speaker 2: guys started. What was the what was the musical kind
Speaker 2: of landscape? I guess, what was the scene in Glasgow?
Speaker 2: What world were you going into as mog Quair, What
Speaker 2: type of bands were out there? What was the thing.
Speaker 1: It was? It was good actually the kind of the
Speaker 1: mainstream culture kind of grunge. It kind of fuzzled out
Speaker 1: and everything was Brett pop and that wasn't I'm sure
Speaker 1: you can guess, wasn't really our bag. So we kind
Speaker 1: of weren't interested in the kind of mainstream culture. And
Speaker 1: then and the and the the Glasgow music scene was great.
Speaker 1: Actually there was a very scene based around the thirteenth
Speaker 1: not Alex from Who's now in Franz Ferdinand used to
Speaker 1: book the bands there, so his band the Blisters would
Speaker 1: play Urisayatsura, Pink Cross, the Yummy for Delgado's spar Snaire
Speaker 1: from Dundee This We're kicking off. They were, so they
Speaker 1: were like the kind of the band from our scene
Speaker 1: that had kind of like amazingly gone on top of
Speaker 1: the pops and left Chemical Underground to go to Grand Royal.
Speaker 1: And so there was there was stuff happening, but Glasgow
Speaker 1: was very much a backwater then there wasn't I remember
Speaker 1: the best thing being a big deal because people were
Speaker 1: coming up to see the other bands and that hadn't
Speaker 1: really happened before. So there was a kind of like
Speaker 1: scene kind of bubbling away, but without anyone having any
Speaker 1: expectation of getting signed to a label. Or even like
Speaker 1: going on a big tour or anything. I think like
Speaker 1: everything that was pretty diy. Everyone was starting their own
Speaker 1: label to put their own seven inches and that's that's
Speaker 1: what we did. That's how we started Rock Action was
Speaker 1: to put out our first small gway seven So so
Speaker 1: it was good, but it was very very No one
Speaker 1: had any real expectations. It was kind of quite pure
Speaker 1: and in that way is when people were just doing
Speaker 1: their own thing and going to see all our friends
Speaker 1: bands and maybe going to see some bigger touring bands.
Speaker 1: So people were kind of making connections. I know, like
Speaker 1: like the Yummy Fur people kind of had connections with
Speaker 1: like some of the bands from Olympia. I know they
Speaker 1: played with like Slayer Kenny. I know I'm probably now
Speaker 1: jumping out years ahead or whatever, but there was kind
Speaker 1: of connections. But it wasn't pre Internet. The idea of
Speaker 1: like your band getting signed and going in specially of
Speaker 1: your band wearing mainstream it wasn't really a possibility.
Speaker 2: The whole scene up there was that all quite removed
Speaker 2: from britpop in the way that you guys were in
Speaker 2: their own ways. Were all those bands kind of pushing against.
Speaker 1: That in a way. I mean I know best. I know.
Speaker 1: I know Stephen quite liked liked Blur, but he didn't.
Speaker 1: They weren't copying them, you know, like yeah, people were
Speaker 1: just doing their own thing. I think people in Glasgow
Speaker 1: maybe felt more connected to American underground music like Sonic
Speaker 1: Youth and a Sonic Youth like invited Pink Cross to
Speaker 1: play with them, so there was the kind of like
Speaker 1: that kind of connection. People maybe looked across the Atlanta
Speaker 1: rather than so much down to London when there was
Speaker 1: cool stuff in London too. Back then. I remember that
Speaker 1: band like Quick Space and Ligament were obviously great. So
Speaker 1: it was definitely an interesting time. It's kind of it's
Speaker 1: kind of weird explaining or trying to explain this to
Speaker 1: like young people now because pre Internet the world was
Speaker 1: very different. Yeah, yeah, you know, I mean there's there's
Speaker 1: there's probably quite a strong argument that if it wasn't
Speaker 1: for John Peel, the bands from that time in Glasgow
Speaker 1: would never have done anything. You know, Like John like
Speaker 1: really got behind Delgado's this Arab Strap, beiln Sebastian Usaas,
Speaker 1: who are all these all these bands, like he kind
Speaker 1: of championed them and it wasn't it It went just
Speaker 1: beyond playing the songs on the radio. The other thing
Speaker 1: was the sessions, like if you've got a Peel session.
Speaker 1: I can't remember how much money it was. I think
Speaker 1: it was six hundred quid and that that's a lot
Speaker 1: of money. That's a lot of money when you're either
Speaker 1: living in a bed set or with your parents, you know,
Speaker 1: So that the money from those sessions was really important
Speaker 1: to kind of give bands money to press up seven inches,
Speaker 1: to go down to London to play more people, to
Speaker 1: get seen by any emaild maker, all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: And yeah, he really he really had a huge part
Speaker 1: to play.
Speaker 2: I didn't realized that they that there would have been
Speaker 2: a fae attached to a Pale session. I wonder, I
Speaker 2: wonder if that's I'm guessing that's not the case now
Speaker 2: at six music or whatever. If you if you go
Speaker 2: and play, it's for the promo of playing, right.
Speaker 1: I think that is the case, which I think is
Speaker 1: a bit of a shame actually, because I think it's
Speaker 1: a big help to to young young and you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's funny, well, like what you were just saying about,
Speaker 2: like obviously the Internet has just connected everyone in such
Speaker 2: a lightning speed way that wasn't back then, And I
Speaker 2: was thinking Godspeed had started around the same time as
Speaker 2: you guys, but away over in Canada in Montreal, Like,
Speaker 2: would you have would you have been aware of them
Speaker 2: and what they were doing and that that that they
Speaker 2: was kind of this just similar kind of vibe between
Speaker 2: you or would would that not have even reached you
Speaker 2: back then because there would just been nowhere of you
Speaker 2: hearing it without going there.
Speaker 1: Well, I didn't hear them till their album came out. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I didn't hear them till their album come out. I
Speaker 1: mean I'm guessing if, yeah, nowadays you would know about
Speaker 1: a band like that, I mean there were there's such
Speaker 1: a such a great band and clearly influenced by so
Speaker 1: much of the same music as us. Yeah you would,
Speaker 1: you would hear about them. But even that was kind
Speaker 1: of cool. Like I remember we played with them and
Speaker 1: like we all got on stage and did a big
Speaker 1: noise sham. It was awesome how we first met. I'm
Speaker 1: trying this is now going back. Maybe play the gig
Speaker 1: together in Belgium or something. Right, Yeah, they're actually a
Speaker 1: lot of fun. Those people are a lot more fun
Speaker 1: than they probably won't anyone.
Speaker 2: To keep that quiet. I saw a tweet from you.
Speaker 2: It was you mentioned like it was when Spider Lamb
Speaker 2: by Slint had turned thirty, and you said a tweet
Speaker 2: saying that you can remember the first time you heard
Speaker 2: washing by Them, you were driving your car and you
Speaker 2: nearly crushed your car.
Speaker 1: Yeah, is that true. Yeah? I can even remember exactly
Speaker 1: where it was in the motorway. I remember just like
Speaker 1: being completely entranced and like forgetting to drive, like I got.
Speaker 1: I was so into I was like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: this is like this is like the perfect music. This
Speaker 1: is amazing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, at the moment you I'm guessing was that case
Speaker 2: that you'd never heard anything like that before? Did it
Speaker 2: just sound so so different and new to what you heard?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was pretty different, but it's also it's also
Speaker 1: really good, you know, Like I think Dominic it was
Speaker 1: on a tape Dominic gave me, and I think Dominic
Speaker 1: was more he was more in an undergrade music of
Speaker 1: the time, like I was kind of more in a
Speaker 1: like undergrade music of the sixties and seventies. So like
Speaker 1: we kind of like our record collections could have We're
Speaker 1: quite similar, but from different decades.
Speaker 2: So this is this is just as you're forming the band.
Speaker 2: You've just started the band around this time when you
Speaker 2: nearly crash your car, right yes, yeah, yeah? And did
Speaker 2: you did you know at that point? Was that a
Speaker 2: moment where you thought you wanted to not that you
Speaker 2: not that you make the same music as slind, but
Speaker 2: what you knew the type of did you know the
Speaker 2: type of music you wanted to make?
Speaker 1: Could what? I mean? We had a few bands that
Speaker 1: we were really into, and we kind of we were
Speaker 1: really into the God Machine, We were really into my
Speaker 1: Bloody Valentine and Joy Division, and I think a lot
Speaker 1: of this was us trying to do something like something,
Speaker 1: but we couldn't really play properly, so it just kind
Speaker 1: of came out a bit wonky, do I mean, like
Speaker 1: like those other bands were obsessed with, like Bardo Pond,
Speaker 1: Like remember hearing Bardo That was another band. I heard
Speaker 1: Bardo Pond on John Peel on the radio driving about
Speaker 1: and God almost crashed my car. When I heard that,
Speaker 1: I was like, this is next level, honestly. I mean
Speaker 1: I did actually crash my car well a lot in
Speaker 1: the nineties, but most of it was due to ineptitude
Speaker 1: rather than than hearing really good music. But what we're
Speaker 1: kind of trying to do was like do something like
Speaker 1: emotional like Joy Division or God Machine, but maybe with
Speaker 1: some of the like drones and kind of interesting sounds
Speaker 1: of tor toys. But a lot of this was kind
Speaker 1: of done quite accidentally because we couldn't really play that well, right,
Speaker 1: you know, like we were learning. We were learning on
Speaker 1: the on the job, you know, which in a weird way,
Speaker 1: and I think that actually happened with Joy Division two.
Speaker 1: You know, learning while you're working out what you're doing
Speaker 1: can be quite you can come up with some interesting things.
Speaker 1: There's a lot to be said for not being properly trained.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a lot of those happy accidents. It's like
Speaker 2: like that thing about bands like like the Velvet Underground
Speaker 2: not wanting to practice too much or the sex Pistols
Speaker 2: not wanting to practice too much because I didn't want
Speaker 2: to get better because it would lose the thing and
Speaker 2: it wasn't about Yeah, although I suppose that's more of
Speaker 2: just a punk mentality ruling over anything else.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a bit of a myth that sex Pistoles
Speaker 1: couldn't play. They were pretty good players, and like the Velvets,
Speaker 1: I mean John Kele's like a virtue also, but yeah,
Speaker 1: Lou Reed's had a very distinct style. Will Tucker is
Speaker 1: just doing her own thing. I mean, they're probably my
Speaker 1: favorite band of all time. Like that, I've almost got
Speaker 1: like a religious view of the Velvet Underground that's probably
Speaker 1: like completely detached to what it was actually like. I
Speaker 1: just kind of have this idea of it just being
Speaker 1: this kind of like one in a million, absolute lightning
Speaker 1: bolt of weird psychedelic perfection.
Speaker 2: Did you ever get to see Lou Reid play?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I so a few. I actually saw the Velvets too,
Speaker 1: So I saw the reunion show that I loved it,
Speaker 1: but I was very young, so I think I just
Speaker 1: was excited a bit the occasion. I know a lot
Speaker 1: of people didn't enjoy it because lou sang weird?
Speaker 2: Did he sing weird? In because I saw Lou Reid
Speaker 2: just once? And when you say sang wed, did he did?
Speaker 2: When I saw him, he would do. He would He
Speaker 2: did do some weird singing, But by that I mean
Speaker 2: he would just play the songs that you When it
Speaker 2: got to a song that you really wanted to hear,
Speaker 2: he would just do a really strange version of it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what he did. But it was
Speaker 1: a revery of underground show. So every song was one
Speaker 1: that you really wanted to hear.
Speaker 2: Sure, Okay, So like.
Speaker 1: The one I remember quite clearly was was Venus and
Speaker 1: Furs and he just go shiny shiny, shiny, shiny but
Speaker 1: a leather and like not sang the rhythm. Even though
Speaker 1: it's a really rhythmical song. He would almost kind of
Speaker 1: purposefully sang the wrong rhythm. I mean, I was just
Speaker 1: still just feeling it was just the fact I was
Speaker 1: watching John Cale and Stale and Morrison and Motucker. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but yeah, I think he kind of semi sabotaged it.
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean Bob Dellan does that as well.
Speaker 1: It's quite a weird old old dudes tree. You know.
Speaker 1: It's like almost like the opposite of the cure. You know,
Speaker 1: like Robert like really puts every effort into making it
Speaker 1: sounds as good as possible, and like Bob Dillan's just
Speaker 1: like fuck it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, really he really resents playing the show. It's as
Speaker 2: if he's like it's.
Speaker 1: Kind of weird because he can't really because he doesn't
Speaker 1: have to do it, doesn't.
Speaker 2: Have That's what's strange about it, right, whereas like it
Speaker 2: makes me think what was going through like lou Reed's
Speaker 2: head to do that. I mean, and also do you
Speaker 2: think the band were on board with that? Do you
Speaker 2: think the rest of the PAM were like, well, this
Speaker 2: is just what he wants to do, so we're just
Speaker 2: going to do that because we're just playing these shows
Speaker 2: for the for the cash.
Speaker 1: I guess, I don't know. I don't think he seems
Speaker 1: like the kind of person you would want to give
Speaker 1: a roud to do. Well. I really don't know it.
Speaker 1: And the weird thing about it, I mean, I don't
Speaker 1: know if you play music, but to play a song
Speaker 1: that you've been playing your whole life completely differently on
Speaker 1: purpose would be really hard. Like if I don't know,
Speaker 1: if like we suddenly decided we were going to like
Speaker 1: play mog wife you're saying, but I was going to
Speaker 1: try and play all the bits kind of like reggae
Speaker 1: or something. I mean, a would be a would be horrendous,
Speaker 1: but be it would be really difficult, Like it would
Speaker 1: be much easier to just keep playing the way it's
Speaker 1: always been.
Speaker 2: Yeah, goes to show just how much he wanted to
Speaker 2: be difficult. He was so determined to be difficult. He
Speaker 2: was willing to try that hard.
Speaker 1: I was going to say he actually once asked us
Speaker 1: to to to play with him, to do some like
Speaker 1: noise jam, and we didn't do it for such a
Speaker 1: rubbish reason that it's it's the one regret I've got
Speaker 1: about the band, because it would be brilliant. Well, I
Speaker 1: think we had the studio books, we booked the studio,
Speaker 1: and we would have had to like move the recording
Speaker 1: of our seventh album by a couple of months or something,
Speaker 1: And I don't know. That's kind of like, you know,
Speaker 1: we were talking right at the start of this about
Speaker 1: how you get so wrapped up and stuff, and you
Speaker 1: you take a step back and you're like, what the
Speaker 1: hell do I mean? Like, now I'm thinking about it,
Speaker 1: I'm like, what the hell will we thinking? Like, that's
Speaker 1: so dumb.
Speaker 2: It might have been the thing that turned you off him,
Speaker 2: though right, I mean it might not have been.
Speaker 1: That was maybe that was in the back of my mind.
Speaker 2: It could either be the best time of your life
Speaker 2: or it could be it's the risk, and the risk
Speaker 2: is that he spends the whole time shouting at you
Speaker 2: and telling you you're awful and then you would you
Speaker 2: wouldn't been able to listen to it in the same way.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, yeah, because I mean we were there. I
Speaker 1: don't actually don't think that would have happened. I'll say
Speaker 1: that now. I think it would have been fine. I'm
Speaker 1: sure he would have been a bit weird and maybe
Speaker 1: the music wouldn't have been great, but I think it
Speaker 1: would have been nice. I don't think it would have
Speaker 1: been a dick, but we were We were there when
Speaker 1: there was all that stuff with John Lyden and his
Speaker 1: bouncers attacking Kelly from Block Party, and I've I can't
Speaker 1: listen to I know obviously now I can't really listen
Speaker 1: to him sing, and I mean, no, he was a
Speaker 1: Trump guy as well, which kind of Johnny Ron. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: he was a big Trump guy, So like that kind
Speaker 1: of paints paints a picture as well, doesn't it. But
Speaker 1: usually I can listen to people if I think they're
Speaker 1: a bit of an arsehole. But that's a step too far.
Speaker 1: I mean, I can still listen to Morsey because I
Speaker 1: never particularly held him up in a pedestal anyway.
Speaker 2: It's it's Morris is one where I've always been such
Speaker 2: a big Smith's fan. And his solo stuff. I like
Speaker 2: some of it, but it was all about the Smiths
Speaker 2: for me, really, and I'm normally quite sensitive to this
Speaker 2: sort of stuff, whereas as soon as someone's done something bad,
Speaker 2: I'm like, I've got to just I've got to reject that.
Speaker 2: I can't, I've got to just deny myself that, even
Speaker 2: if I really still love it. But the Smiths are
Speaker 2: one thing that I've managed to I guess because it's
Speaker 2: so embedded in me, those songs, and it's so removed
Speaker 2: from Morrissey, the person that that's that I'm managing to
Speaker 2: do that. But when I listened to his so I've
Speaker 2: recently listened to us. So, so you are the Quarry,
Speaker 2: which I got into. It came out when I was
Speaker 2: at university, and it's got all of those memories in it.
Speaker 2: And I recently listened to it and I felt marginally
Speaker 2: guilty that I was putting this record on, but I
Speaker 2: still really, I still really managed to enjoy it. But
Speaker 2: you don't have that problem, are you? Are you better
Speaker 2: at separating the art and the person that made it generally?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, in fact completely. The only one I can
Speaker 1: handle is Johnny Roe, And I think it's because was
Speaker 1: I really did look up to him. I really did,
Speaker 1: like I'd read his book, I'd kind of like, like
Speaker 1: was obsessed with those records public image, so sex Pistols
Speaker 1: was obsessed with it. And just when I met him
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh my god, this guy's an arshole,
Speaker 1: like I really like and not just like a bit
Speaker 1: of an arsehole, like behaving really poisonously towards Kelly, who's
Speaker 1: a really sweet person. And I suspect the fact that
Speaker 1: Kelly's black had quite a big thing to do with it,
Speaker 1: even if not directly the people around him that I
Speaker 1: was this it was just, yeah, I can't can deal
Speaker 1: with it more? See, yeah I can. Let's still listen
Speaker 1: to Smiths. I never like, I like the singing and
Speaker 1: the lyrics are fine, although like a wee bit try hard.
Speaker 1: So I wasn't like I wasn't getting his lyrics tattooed
Speaker 1: on me or anything. So I can still kind of
Speaker 1: handle it. But I mean it just lose my way.
Speaker 1: I've never seen someone sabotage themselves so badly in a
Speaker 1: really unaware way too, like that no one around her
Speaker 1: would go a lesson. I know you're starting to get
Speaker 1: into all this fucking weird shit, but just shut up
Speaker 1: about it because it's not good. It's not gonna go down.
Speaker 2: Well, do you think that comes down to him like
Speaker 2: not having any friends or not having like a not
Speaker 2: having having pushed people away throughout his life. I'm obviously
Speaker 2: have no I have no basis for this, but just
Speaker 2: from the outside, how it looks like it's a guy
Speaker 2: who you know, he's he's never on a record label
Speaker 2: for more than a record. He seems to upset a
Speaker 2: lot of people, and he doesn't seem to have anyone.
Speaker 2: He almost prides himself on being this loner, to the
Speaker 2: extent that you think maybe there's not there isn't that
Speaker 2: person who's like saying, advising him properly because he's surround
Speaker 2: he seems like this person that surrounds him. His fans
Speaker 2: are so ardent that they kind of forgive everything. And
Speaker 2: if you surround yourself only by those people, you think
Speaker 2: I can just say this stuff and it's fine. He
Speaker 2: doesn't have he doesn't have that common sense, basically doesn't
Speaker 2: have someone there being common sense for him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there is that. I also think maybe a lot
Speaker 1: of it kind of reeks of kind of like your
Speaker 1: uncle on Facebook that just starts kind of going down
Speaker 1: a weird kind of football hooligan Nigel Farage wormhole. Like
Speaker 1: you can imagine the kind of trap that's kind of
Speaker 1: led him to this worldview, you know, it's very much Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's been radicalized by poorly drawn right wing memes. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm fairly I'm fairly certain of that, but yeah, you're right,
Speaker 1: just not having someone to just go hold on a minute,
Speaker 1: it'd be funny to kind of calculate how much money
Speaker 1: it's cost him as well, because it must be a lot.
Speaker 1: Seems to be something of that kind of generation. Because yeah,
Speaker 1: Marquise Smith had become a proper gammon as well, hadn't
Speaker 1: you Like, that's kind.
Speaker 2: Of like the term gammon still makes me laugh.
Speaker 1: It's a genius.
Speaker 2: It's a genius.
Speaker 1: It's a genius. Yeah, I've mentioned that a few times
Speaker 1: when people have called me a racist. So you're like, yes,
Speaker 1: such a strange argument if I had, I mean, I'm
Speaker 1: sure if if I could be bothered getting getting flustered
Speaker 1: about anything, I'd probably go that kind of color myself.
Speaker 2: We should talk about you becoming number one. It's obviously
Speaker 2: such a huge thing. Congratulations. I mean, how did that
Speaker 2: obviously felt? I imagine it felt surreal, but tell me
Speaker 2: how it did feel.
Speaker 1: It felt unbelievable. And the whole week was just so
Speaker 1: surreal from like tell you what. Like I left the
Speaker 1: house like the record come on the Friday, and then
Speaker 1: on the Saturday, I went to take the dog for
Speaker 1: a walk and I literally five meters out of my door,
Speaker 1: a guy came up to him went the album's great,
Speaker 1: and I was like, thanks very much, like that's literally
Speaker 1: never happened to me before. And then at the end
Speaker 1: of the street, I got the email with the first
Speaker 1: day's charts, but I didn't realize what it was because
Speaker 1: I saw we were number one, and I was like,
Speaker 1: all right, this must be like the indie charts or
Speaker 1: or I think I thought it was maybe the Scottish charts.
Speaker 1: Like I just texted Traiger label label manager. I was like,
Speaker 1: what is this and he was like, it's the chart
Speaker 1: and I was like, you're choking, like it's funny. Maybe
Speaker 1: I'm not as involved as I usually am because I
Speaker 1: used to manage the band. We've had a manager again
Speaker 1: for the last few years, so maybe I would have
Speaker 1: seen this coming. If i'd been more involved, but I was.
Speaker 1: I was. I was really genuinely amazed. And then like
Speaker 1: after a couple of days, like we noticed, well my
Speaker 1: wife noticed the dude who was number two Gets kind
Speaker 1: of like really really pushing it, and she was like,
Speaker 1: this guy's going for it, like you're gonna have to
Speaker 1: We're gonna have to do something. So yeah, she started
Speaker 1: like a hashtag and stuff. Yeah, she was awesome. She
Speaker 1: really kind of went for it, and and it was
Speaker 1: pretty stressful because we were never that far ahead.
Speaker 2: Really, I think it's always really exciting and fun when
Speaker 2: if you're into things that aren't necessarily mainstream and they
Speaker 2: infiltrate the mainstream in that way, sometimes quite unexpectedly. And
Speaker 2: twenty five is poetic, twenty five years of putting out
Speaker 2: Recourse is your tenth album, and it was It was
Speaker 2: also great there was you against Gets, who really is
Speaker 2: not the kind of guy that's going to be going
Speaker 2: to be like normally challenging for a number one record
Speaker 2: himself as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah he's yeah, he's an under he's an under around
Speaker 1: musician too. Yeah, And I thought that was cool, like
Speaker 1: he's he's he's from a different, different scene. But I
Speaker 1: mean super underground. Do you mean like pirate Radio, grind DJ,
Speaker 1: it's it's it's awesome. There was there was a weird,
Speaker 1: weird one just the other week or last week, someone
Speaker 1: saying to me, like, Elton John's got a show on
Speaker 1: Apple Radio and he played us and like did a
Speaker 1: big shpiel. But how great it was? Or number one?
Speaker 1: Like all again, I'm like, this is fucking mental. Like
Speaker 1: it's mental that Elton John even knows who Magua are,
Speaker 1: and it's mental that he's talking about us having a
Speaker 1: number one album. The old the old thing is just surreal.
Speaker 2: Is there anything you can attribute to like this record?
Speaker 1: What?
Speaker 2: What did it do you think for this record? Like
Speaker 2: when you woke out your house and someone says I
Speaker 2: love the record and you said, as you say, that
Speaker 2: doesn't normally happen. I don't normally like say that when
Speaker 2: a new record comes out. What do you think? Is
Speaker 2: there anything that you think could be the reason why
Speaker 2: this was the time.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think our music probably really really works
Speaker 1: well with people sitting alone in their house, and everyone
Speaker 1: is everyone is sitting alone in their house, Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: and I mean that's maybe also I think kind of
Speaker 1: we really kind of went for it, doing like the
Speaker 1: live stream and all that stuff, so we made sure
Speaker 1: everyone knew about it. But yeah, I don't really know.
Speaker 1: It's a weird one, and yeah, you're right, tenth record.
Speaker 1: Tenth record is a cool thing to get to, but
Speaker 1: it's not a lot of people give a shit about
Speaker 1: most bands tenth record, you know, it's kind of it's
Speaker 1: pretty amazing people want to hear more after presumably having
Speaker 1: heard quite a few already. I mean, I don't know
Speaker 1: how many people have heard every single one, but I
Speaker 1: guess most people that like us have definitely heard quite
Speaker 1: a few, you know. So yeah, it's good. It's definitely
Speaker 1: a really nice thing. And it was nice to feel
Speaker 1: all the support, you know, especially from like other musicians,
Speaker 1: ones that we know, but even people we don't know,
Speaker 1: you know. It was it was really cool, really nice.
Speaker 1: So definitely it kind of I definitely took from it
Speaker 1: that I need to be as supportive as I can
Speaker 1: of other people's projects. Having experienced like how nice everyone's
Speaker 1: been about ours. I think I generally am anyway, but
Speaker 1: it definitely made me kind of think that that is
Speaker 1: an important thing to do to kind of, yeah, get
Speaker 1: behind people's music or whatever, books, films, magazines, just kind
Speaker 1: of yeah, because people put a lot into things, and
Speaker 1: especially now there's less like we were kind of chatting earlier,
Speaker 1: there's there's less media, there's less space. So kind of
Speaker 1: any any any any way that I can support people's endeavors,
Speaker 1: I'm going to try and do it and thing that's
Speaker 1: a good kind of thing for us. All.
Speaker 2: You know, did you go down to Sainsbury's to see
Speaker 2: it be stocked in there? That's what I would do
Speaker 2: if I got a number one record, I'd go straight
Speaker 2: to the supermarket to see it there.
Speaker 1: You know. The sad thing is that they still wouldn't
Speaker 1: have had it.
Speaker 2: I thought they had to have the number one record.
Speaker 1: No, they have their number one record.
Speaker 2: Oh I feel cheated by.
Speaker 1: That kind of I was aware of that. I think
Speaker 1: I must have asked when we got to number nine
Speaker 1: one year or something, be like, why am I why
Speaker 1: are we knowing Sainsbury's? Yeah, they could have. They tend
Speaker 1: to just have whatever the Foo Fighters and Ariana Grande
Speaker 1: and Yeah and seventeen now compilations, But it would have
Speaker 1: been nice to know if anyone would have bought them
Speaker 1: or why record and Sainsbury's.
Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, I just slipped it in with the
Speaker 2: chicken kievs at the tail.
Speaker 1: And why not. Yeah, like a big bag of grated
Speaker 1: vegan cheese. It's literally what I bought from Sainsbury's last night.
Speaker 1: It's in my mind.
Speaker 2: Did you but you did get sent the did you
Speaker 2: get sent the trophy? The number one trophy?
Speaker 1: We actually had to do the photos with the trophy
Speaker 1: before we knew we were number one.
Speaker 2: Oh right, And if you hadn't been number one, they
Speaker 2: would have just been destroyed.
Speaker 1: Yeah, much like our souls. If you actually look at
Speaker 1: if you actually look at it, if you actually look
Speaker 1: at the photo of us with the trophy, Barry looks
Speaker 1: really visuable. So I think he's was probably thinking we're
Speaker 1: never getting to number one. Yeah, it must actually been
Speaker 1: super weird for the rest of the band because they're
Speaker 1: probably not quite as well. I know they're not, as
Speaker 1: they're not getting sent the chart every day and phone
Speaker 1: in their pals from record labels, so they're probably just like,
Speaker 1: this is just insane.
Speaker 2: What day do you get the photo taken with the trophy?
Speaker 1: That was at the start of the week, so that
Speaker 1: was it Tuesday or something, And then I think we yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so we did the photo and the Thursday, and then
Speaker 1: I had to send it back. Yeah, but we we
Speaker 1: got real ones, which is one. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, nice, sure, if you're okay on time, I
Speaker 2: just want to ask you a few a couple more things. Yeah,
Speaker 2: there's one thing I thought we could do in twenty sixteen.
Speaker 2: I don't expect you to remember this, but you gave
Speaker 2: an interview to our magazine. We used to do a
Speaker 2: musicians survey in there where the questions were the same
Speaker 2: each month, and we'll just send them. We'll send them
Speaker 2: to artists and then send them back. It was called
Speaker 2: getting to Know You. And this was around the time
Speaker 2: of this was where Minor Victories was coming out.
Speaker 1: All right, cool, So.
Speaker 2: I thought I could ask you some of those again
Speaker 2: and you can see if you can remember what you said,
Speaker 2: then we can prepare your answers then to your answers. Now,
Speaker 2: there's just a few here that I thought would be
Speaker 2: interesting to get your updated take on.
Speaker 1: Okay. I prayed myself for my lack of personal growth,
Speaker 1: so yeah, okay, so they should be all spot I
Speaker 1: think the same.
Speaker 2: Yeah, great, can you remember who you would have put
Speaker 2: down as your style, Like, these are all pretty dumb questions.
Speaker 1: By the way, I wouldn't have taken that very seriously,
Speaker 1: so probably did I don't know, did I write Chuck Tea?
Speaker 2: You didn't, but you put you put Jimi Hendrix.
Speaker 1: Jimmy Hendrix, Oh yeah, well I think yeah, that was
Speaker 1: probably my younger style icon. And yeah, my ex wife
Speaker 1: used to. She used to one of her many criticisms
Speaker 1: of me, was that addressed like a middle aged guy
Speaker 1: who liked hip hop, which my which my retort was,
Speaker 1: I am a middle aged guy who likes hip hop.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Jimmy Hendrix probably is. Yeah. I used to
Speaker 1: rock the velvet jacket, did you Yeah, yeah, I'm obsessed
Speaker 1: with Jimmy Hendricks.
Speaker 2: Did you did you go down the whole the kind
Speaker 2: of the army, you know, with what they called bullet
Speaker 2: belts on the on the on the shoulders.
Speaker 1: Oh no, I never, I never, Nah. I just kind
Speaker 1: of went for the velvet jacket. I think that was. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I've never because he had the ruffly shirts like yes, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: and I never went that phul Hendricks. I will do
Speaker 1: at one point. Now, the Princess and the Prince, they
Speaker 1: I'll take over the the Mantle.
Speaker 2: Can you remember can you remember the first time you
Speaker 2: heard Hendricks? How old would you have fel when you've
Speaker 2: heard Hendrick?
Speaker 1: You know, we're doing pretty young? And actually I think
Speaker 1: it was the Star Spangled Banner.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, okay, yeah, yeah, I like.
Speaker 1: Appearents wear it super into music, but or wear into music,
Speaker 1: but just not as full and as I am. But
Speaker 1: I think my dad, who's a very political person, I
Speaker 1: think he played me the Star Spangled Banner and I
Speaker 1: was like, what the hell is this? So yeah, that
Speaker 1: must have been when I was pretty young.
Speaker 2: I mean that is that is as Hendrix as a
Speaker 2: track gets as well, isn't it that live? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: And it's so so wild and like barbed.
Speaker 1: And yeah, and it would it came with a really serious,
Speaker 1: like like little lecture about like an information blast about
Speaker 1: the Vietnam War and the protests and the sexties and everything. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so we'd do It would have been a lot to
Speaker 1: take in, but I was I'm sure I was more
Speaker 1: affected by the feedback than the concept of some war
Speaker 1: that had no idea about, because I was a luck.
Speaker 2: Kiad Okay, what do you think what do you think
Speaker 2: you put to people's biggest misconception about.
Speaker 1: You probably that I'm a very serious person that I
Speaker 1: write that that's exactly what you're right. Yeah, yeah, because
Speaker 1: I mean that's kind of true, and I think people
Speaker 1: are maybe over that now, But for a long time
Speaker 1: people would meet us and just be either really entertained
Speaker 1: or genuinely appalled that we were idiots.
Speaker 2: You would you have people say to you, you're actually
Speaker 2: really nice.
Speaker 1: Well, that that was one of the reasons why I
Speaker 1: stopped being rude about people. Yeah, that happened. That would
Speaker 1: happen a lot in Yeah, in my kind of early
Speaker 1: twenties round about whatever, the blurr shite T shirts and stuff,
Speaker 1: and people will say you're You're actually really nice, and
Speaker 1: then I'd be like, yeah, of course I'm really nice.
Speaker 1: And then I had a bit of a realization like
Speaker 1: maybe if people are surprised that I'm nice, it's because
Speaker 1: I'm giving the impression that I'm being that I'm a
Speaker 1: total dick, and that it should change that I should
Speaker 1: not be behaving like a total dick. Yeah.
Speaker 2: That T shirt that you mentioned, which was the Mogwai
Speaker 2: T shirt that just said Blair are shy on it.
Speaker 2: This is from like nineteen nine, right, yes, yeah, which
Speaker 2: one is just a very funny T shirt, very funny Jack.
Speaker 2: But did people not see it that way as like
Speaker 2: as a good gag. Did you get kicked back on it?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, we did, And to be totally honest, we
Speaker 1: probably deserved it. It's quite braddy, it's very bright, and
Speaker 1: I think it maybe kind of came a little bit
Speaker 1: from I was still not thinking anyone really noticed anything
Speaker 1: we did, you know. And I mean I'm not a
Speaker 1: Blur fan, but I think any of us really cared
Speaker 1: that much. It was just it was just being kind
Speaker 1: of stupid and whatever. But then again, these things are
Speaker 1: kind of hard to read, even actually after we're number
Speaker 1: one actually online, so a few people go, I can't
Speaker 1: be happy for them because I'm still so annoyed about
Speaker 1: that T shirt. Really yeah, I mean, I guess those
Speaker 1: people are huge Floor fans or whatever, and I don't
Speaker 1: know that's fair enough. If someone did that about Jimmy Hendrix,
Speaker 1: have would be pretty mad, you know, But in fact,
Speaker 1: I really wouldn't actually know think about it. I'd probably
Speaker 1: just feel like imagine saying that that's weird. But yeah,
Speaker 1: and it's also a very different time isn't it like
Speaker 1: they kind of I mean round about that time. I
Speaker 1: can't remember exactly what he said, but did Liam Gallagher
Speaker 1: not say something really bad about blurting?
Speaker 2: Like I remember, I remember Noel said that he hoped
Speaker 2: that two of them he singled out two of them.
Speaker 2: I think it was Diamond and Alex James. I think
Speaker 2: he's I think he said that he hopes they catch
Speaker 2: EIDs they don't.
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean that's which is that's a lot.
Speaker 2: I mean that that is a lot.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a lot.
Speaker 2: I mean, I mean, can you imagine if somebody if
Speaker 2: he said that now, or if anyone said that now
Speaker 2: and no, that would be the end of.
Speaker 1: Them, right, Yeah, yeah, Yeah, things have changed and probably
Speaker 1: for the better because you know what, like that's not nice.
Speaker 1: That's that's not nice. And even our T shirt is
Speaker 1: totally dumb. I mean, I'm kind of glad we did
Speaker 1: it because it's still funny, but it's not what I
Speaker 1: want people to think of when we think of our band. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but I mean again, we kind of go back to
Speaker 1: the kind of like analogue times, like things were kind
Speaker 1: of narlier, like people maybe because there wasn't social media,
Speaker 1: so people like people would like save up their like
Speaker 1: horrible things to say with people for interviews, like they
Speaker 1: were there were it was just and it's weird, like
Speaker 1: the kind of some people that have kind of kept
Speaker 1: that going. It seemed really like no Gallicer kind of
Speaker 1: does it a little bit actually, and it's it's got
Speaker 1: a bit of an old man shouts at cloud vibe
Speaker 1: about it. Do you? I mean, it's like you don't need
Speaker 1: to do that anymore, like if you, if you whatever,
Speaker 1: like you could tweet someone now, but they would actually
Speaker 1: see you say it and maybe tweet back, and you'd
Speaker 1: look terrible thing like like things have like things have changed,
Speaker 1: you know, like and like oh, I also kind of
Speaker 1: realized that all the time that I was being horrible
Speaker 1: about other bands or whatever, I could have been talking
Speaker 1: about bands I liked, you know, it could have been like,
Speaker 1: which is way more productive. I mean, who cares what
Speaker 1: Magua I think about Robbie Williams? Do I mean Robbie Williams?
Speaker 1: Or I'm trying to think of people we slagged off.
Speaker 1: It's just so pointless. It's so pointless, and like, I
Speaker 1: mean even I even remember because we Blur aren't particularly
Speaker 1: famous in America. I mean, I'm sure they do fine,
Speaker 1: but like people people in America would like ask us
Speaker 1: about that and it would be like the weirdest thing ever.
Speaker 1: They would just bea why did you do that? Like
Speaker 1: didn't realize that at that point Blur were massive pop
Speaker 1: stars and it kind of i mean, still not totally justified,
Speaker 1: but made a bit more sense doing. And that kind
Speaker 1: of put it into perspective as Yeah, a bit of
Speaker 1: a waste of energy, the fact, a total waste of energy.
Speaker 2: How about the one song that you wish you'd written?
Speaker 1: God, did I say Markimon by Television? No?
Speaker 2: You said straight hassle.
Speaker 1: Oh that's good. I really do wish it right now.
Speaker 1: That is an amazing song. I've just been thinking about
Speaker 1: marku Mian a lot recently.
Speaker 2: I mean, that is an incredible song as well.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, everything about it. I'm just all over it.
Speaker 1: It's kind of funny that like that kind of era,
Speaker 1: like that kind of like seventies CBGB punk is now
Speaker 1: kind of dad rock. Yeah, I mean I'm fine with that,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm I'm over the age that I should
Speaker 1: be listening to dad rock. But it's kind of funny that, like, yeah,
Speaker 1: stuff that was still relatively underground is now overground.
Speaker 2: Yeah, his top top gay soundtrack, The Street has so
Speaker 2: I did I had. I didn't actually know Street hastening
Speaker 2: until yesterday when I look back through.
Speaker 1: Your answer, I really did you love it?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I loved it. Yeah, it didn't. It didn't surprise
Speaker 2: me that it was one of Louie's eleven minute songs.
Speaker 2: In fact, on that record, it's the only really long song, right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: and I was I wasn't surprised that that was one
Speaker 2: that you were like, that's the one I wants.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, it's great, and it's it's called like Bruce
Speaker 1: Springsteen doing the doing the monologue at the end and
Speaker 1: the strings, everything about it. Yeah, we were talking about
Speaker 1: Louie Darlier. I actually had a dream that louvi'ed gave
Speaker 1: me a fiver when I was a young teenager, when
Speaker 1: I was first getting into the veil of underground and stuff,
Speaker 1: and I think I've kind of in my mind had
Speaker 1: this weird idea about him ever since. It's like when
Speaker 1: you were talking about being horrible to us, I was like,
Speaker 1: that would never have happened. But it's all based on
Speaker 1: a dream I had when I was like thirteen.
Speaker 2: When he gave you a fiver.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah.
Speaker 2: For previous episodes of Midnight Chat, simply search your podcast
Speaker 2: app and don't forget to follow or subscribe in order
Speaker 2: to receive new episodes as that published every week at midnight.
Speaker 2: For more information on the music magazine that makes this series,
Speaker 2: visit loud and Quiet dot com. Anyway, good night,