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Speaker 1: The Hunting Collective is presented by Element. I guess I

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Speaker 1: grew up on a Hey, everybody, welcome to episode one

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Speaker 1: hundred and forty nine. We're almost all the way through

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Speaker 1: October already. That's very sad and poignant for me. How

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Speaker 1: about you, Philip? How about me? What? How are you feeling, buddy?

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Speaker 1: I was check in with you. I'm doing great. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's almost it's almost Halloween, spooky times. What's what's the

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Speaker 1: costume plan over there? You know I don't have one yet.

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Speaker 1: My kid is iron Man. Yeah, I'm pretty excited about that.

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Speaker 1: Last year, of course, I was Duck Holiday, the white

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Speaker 1: clock Cowboy. Yeah, that was normal times when we could

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Speaker 1: see each other. I still have my costume. Maybe I'll

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Speaker 1: break it out again because I'm feeling lazy. But I

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Speaker 1: should get more creative. Yeah, I mean, you could just

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Speaker 1: do any other doc holiday kind of costume. Just remove

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Speaker 1: the white claw in this in Canada, what do you

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Speaker 1: have like cut off jean shorts? It was a sassy

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Speaker 1: number short ripped jeane shorts. I've got my Yeah. Still

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Speaker 1: I saw my cowboy hat with the drink holders and

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Speaker 1: the straws. It's like, you know, maybe I'll just I'll

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Speaker 1: swap out the swap out white cloth for whiskey and

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Speaker 1: just get a little yeah, you know, just just just

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Speaker 1: to just prepare for election night. I'm gonna be uh,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna be a stormtrooper, as is my wife, and

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Speaker 1: my son is gonna be our boss. Kylo Wren. I

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Speaker 1: love you. You're gonna be very excited for those those images. Phil.

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Speaker 1: I'm only doing it because I love my son. I'm

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Speaker 1: not going to protest, so you know, but I already

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Speaker 1: did dress up like a stort trip for his birthday,

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Speaker 1: and I was feeling it. I was feeling it, uh,

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Speaker 1: feeling the dark side, if you will. Sure. So we

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Speaker 1: got a big episode today. We told you last week

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Speaker 1: at We're gonna talk about wound loss and bow hunting

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Speaker 1: and all the things surrounding that. The data, um, the emotion,

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Speaker 1: the feeling hunters get when you wound an animal with

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Speaker 1: archery tackle and it uh it's never found, or it's

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Speaker 1: found and you lose the meat, on and on. So

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Speaker 1: that's that's what we canna talk about today with the

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Speaker 1: Great Janice. But tell us the lot via an eagle

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Speaker 1: who we find out gave himself his own nickname, and

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Speaker 1: then Sam Longren, our good buddy who had a tough

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Speaker 1: experience this year. So we get onto that. But before

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Speaker 1: we do that, with the emails continue to pile in

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Speaker 1: after the Paul Basher episode and then last week with

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Speaker 1: Brian Lynn. UM, thank you guys so much. Once again,

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Speaker 1: I think this is the high point for the old

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Speaker 1: th HC inbox. So please keep those emails coming to

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Speaker 1: th HC at the Mediator dot com no matter what

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Speaker 1: the subject. I want to read them, and I promise

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Speaker 1: I try to read as many as I absolutely can't. Um.

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Speaker 1: And if you're if you're not busy, go over to

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Speaker 1: drink l L m n T dot com slash Mediator

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Speaker 1: check out our wonderful title sponsor, Drink Element and they're

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Speaker 1: wonderful sugar free a lecture Lie beverage that we are

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Speaker 1: now going to next time we get together, Phil, whenever

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Speaker 1: that is we're going to turn. We have to create

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Speaker 1: a new cocktail called the Bitter Vegan. So I'll leave

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Speaker 1: it up to you to creative. Okay, all right, it's

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Speaker 1: gonna be a tiki drink. Get filling his tiki drinks. Well,

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Speaker 1: speaking of some of your fans, Phil, some of your

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Speaker 1: greatest fans. We've got an email from a fellow named

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Speaker 1: Ben Upton. You want to hear this email? Yeah? Um,

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Speaker 1: he says, my name is Ben Upton. Even you can't

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Speaker 1: mess that name up, Ben, which is right? I think

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Speaker 1: I nail it, he said. I'm writing in to provide

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Speaker 1: Phil with some encouragement to finish his son Er safety

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Speaker 1: course and get excited about hunting. While I know Fillers

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Speaker 1: received plenty of messages, both gentle and otherwise from all

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Speaker 1: sorts of people, I am here to nudge fill on

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Speaker 1: as a fellow video game lover this work. Yet up there, Phil,

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Speaker 1: you're feeling this, I am continue. Yeah. I know. Well,

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Speaker 1: I'm an avid hunter and hunting represents most of my identity.

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Speaker 1: I also really love video games. Phil. I know a

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Speaker 1: lot of folks in the hunting community, especially one Steve

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Speaker 1: and Ronnella frown on the idea of video games. But

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Speaker 1: I'm here to tell you that you don't have to

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Speaker 1: sacrifice one for the other. While I prioritize hunting, thinking

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Speaker 1: about hunting, and preparing for hunting over just about anything else.

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Speaker 1: When I do have downtime, I still love to play

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Speaker 1: video games. Don't let the bullies over at Metator convince

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Speaker 1: you that video games are detrimental to an outdoor lifestyle.

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Speaker 1: They all have downtime hobbies. Bands, for example, seems to

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Speaker 1: be drinking. It's fine. Yeah, that's really is, uh, Phil.

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Speaker 1: Once you experience how we're wording it to be to

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Speaker 1: dedicate yourself to preparing for a hunt, waking up early,

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Speaker 1: putting in the miles, and working hard to put good

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Speaker 1: quality meat on the table of the family, you'll understand

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Speaker 1: why we're all pushing you so hard to complete your

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Speaker 1: hunter's head. That being said, sometimes there is no sound

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Speaker 1: in the worl world better than the so sweet staccato

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Speaker 1: of your PlayStation after a long day's hunt. The blood,

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Speaker 1: sweat and tears that you put into that day and

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Speaker 1: that week pursuing wild game will make those video games

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Speaker 1: all the more enjoyable. That's coming from our buddy Ben

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Speaker 1: Up and he said, so, cheers, do you feel crack

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Speaker 1: a white cloth? Finish your damn hunter education and keep

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Speaker 1: providing us with the content we all love so much.

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Speaker 1: Thanks been a commentary film. I mean that was a

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Speaker 1: very compelling argument. Um. I just want to say, first off,

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Speaker 1: the bat, I'm it's going to happen this. By next week,

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Speaker 1: it will be done. I also want to say that

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Speaker 1: if there are any destiny two players on PlayStation four

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Speaker 1: who want to, you know, do some stuff with me

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Speaker 1: before the next DLC comes out next month, hit me

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Speaker 1: up on Instagram. I'd love to run some dungeons, some raids. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, get a hold of me. I don't know

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Speaker 1: what you're talking about. I have no I have no

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Speaker 1: idea what you just said, but it sounded inviting. I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't laugh either too. Um. All right, we got a

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Speaker 1: whole lot of other real serious stuff to get to.

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Speaker 1: A bunch of your emails, and we're gonna skip one

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Speaker 1: from Blake McGhee. Blake McGee, of course, I'm sure it's

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Speaker 1: written in before. He says, your podcast really has me

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Speaker 1: examining my own ethics and morals around hunting. I agree

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Speaker 1: with you about not quote unquote farming out the responsibility

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Speaker 1: of killing to someone else, and like you said, this

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Speaker 1: journey of iron out the nuances of our experience is

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Speaker 1: and should be a lifelong one. This past weekend, while

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Speaker 1: sitting in the stand, I had a thought, if my

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Speaker 1: joy of hunting is derived from the experience in the pursuit,

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Speaker 1: not just the killing of an animal. Could I be

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Speaker 1: happy with the hunting season if I didn't kill one?

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Speaker 1: I know you had to struggle this season with your

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Speaker 1: Montana elk. I'll be very interested in hearing your take

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Speaker 1: what you anticipate your emotions would be if you were

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Speaker 1: completely unsuccessful for a hunting season. That's going from Blake, well, Blake, uh,

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Speaker 1: I'd I've never had. I will say that I've never

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Speaker 1: had a totally in completely unsuccessful hunting season. And you know,

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Speaker 1: talking about an entire year or even entire fall, entire spring.

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Speaker 1: I've always kind of been able to fill a tag

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Speaker 1: or two along the way somewhere. But I will tell

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Speaker 1: you to flat out, straight up, Montana has been kicking

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Speaker 1: my ass um It seems every other state I go to,

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Speaker 1: I feel a tag. But Montana is stingy. Man. It

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Speaker 1: has been stingy for me for reasons I can't explain.

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Speaker 1: But you know, it's a it's a shot right to

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Speaker 1: the ego to not be able to be successful in

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Speaker 1: any in any long stretch of time, as I would

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Speaker 1: would couch my time in Montana thus far. But you know,

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Speaker 1: it's this is a hard thing to think about. It's

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Speaker 1: a hard thing to talk about. So those of you

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Speaker 1: that are the middle October here and maybe haven't filled

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Speaker 1: a tag, whether you're new or veteran hunter, whether it's

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Speaker 1: because you haven't had time to go outside and spend

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Speaker 1: because of whatever reason, or you spent a lot of

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Speaker 1: time and you just haven't found the success that you

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Speaker 1: were hoping for. I don't know that I have any

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Speaker 1: one shred of advice to get you thinking in the

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Speaker 1: right way. But to answer Blake's question, could I be

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Speaker 1: happy with the honey season if I didn't kill an animal?

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Speaker 1: Not fully? Um? Not fully? I think it's a little

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Speaker 1: bit trite. It's, you know, to say, oh, it's all

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Speaker 1: I'm out there for the experience. I mean, I'm out

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Speaker 1: there for the experience up until the point where I

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Speaker 1: want to provide for my family and I want to

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Speaker 1: have success. And the thing I've been been thinking about

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Speaker 1: and training for and preparing for for for my entire

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Speaker 1: life kind of strung along here throughout the years, so

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Speaker 1: you know, I it's it's really easy to say it's

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Speaker 1: all about the journey and the experience. People that usually

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Speaker 1: say that are the ones that aren't killing stuff, are

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Speaker 1: the ones that aren't having the success that they that

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Speaker 1: they want. So in the moment when you're pursuing animals

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Speaker 1: and it's not working out, one thing I do is

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Speaker 1: just take a step back and look around and enjoy

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Speaker 1: the scenery and enjoy the fact that I'm out there

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Speaker 1: doing what I love and I have something I love

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Speaker 1: so much, like hunting. Um. But beyond that, you should

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Speaker 1: be bummed if you don't kill something. You should be

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Speaker 1: seriously bummed, um, and probably a little bit hungry along

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Speaker 1: the way, because you know, no matter what, it's so

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Speaker 1: much better having elk or deer or pheasant or turkey

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Speaker 1: on the table than it is, uh beef or chicken

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Speaker 1: or pork or whatever. So um, that's my thing. And

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Speaker 1: and thank you Blake for writing. Then we're gonna move

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Speaker 1: on to John Stell stell flu Let mean, come on,

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Speaker 1: John S s t E l l F l u E.

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Speaker 1: How would you spell that stell flu stell flu. That's

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Speaker 1: probably pretty easier than I made it sound, all right, John,

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Speaker 1: he said, I joined your conversation with Brian Lynn that

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Speaker 1: was last week. If you haven't listened to it, stopped

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Speaker 1: now I'll go back and listen to episode with Brian

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Speaker 1: Lynn from Sports AND's Alliance. We'll take a break and

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Speaker 1: we're back, he said. One part that was thought broken

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Speaker 1: to me was when you said, don't find yourself at

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Speaker 1: the extreme, don't go yelling at vegans on the street.

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Speaker 1: I agree with this, but what is extreme extreme to

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Speaker 1: you and I may be different than extreme to a vegan,

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Speaker 1: an anti hunter, or even a non hunter. I know

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Speaker 1: I'm not telling you anything you don't know, but as

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Speaker 1: the fall hunting continues to happen, my social media feeds

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Speaker 1: are full of what many people think are just a

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Speaker 1: picture of a deer or a pheasant or some ducks.

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Speaker 1: In our mind, not extreme at all. But to a

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Speaker 1: non hunter or an anti hunter, those same pictures could

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Speaker 1: be viewed as extreme when those pictures are captions or

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Speaker 1: hashtag in a certain way. Of course, I saw one

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Speaker 1: recently that bothered me. It was an i G photo

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Speaker 1: of a bunch of dead Canadian geese. He says, Canadian geese,

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Speaker 1: Remember their Canada geese? They didn't, They're not Canadian. Uh,

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Speaker 1: Their candidates remember that stacked on a tailgate and it

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Speaker 1: was hashtagged. Piles make smiles. Well, not everyone is going

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Speaker 1: to smile at this. Some will consider this extreme. I

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Speaker 1: know you've talked about this before regarding gripping grins, and

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Speaker 1: I think this is something that we all need to

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Speaker 1: be talked about more. One thing I have tried to

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Speaker 1: incorporate in my grip and grinds is a story. Now.

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Speaker 1: I understand that everyone enjoys whipping up a story like

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Speaker 1: I do, but having some context around a photo can

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Speaker 1: allow the view which to receive that photo an entirely

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Speaker 1: different manner. Uh. And he sent some posts where he's

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Speaker 1: illustrating what he tries to do. Um. The overall question,

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Speaker 1: I mean, we've covered grip and grins a whole lot

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Speaker 1: on this show, right Phil, I mean you're you're you're

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Speaker 1: read in on the on on what that is. Yeah, yep,

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Speaker 1: to the point where some people like, just stop talking

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Speaker 1: about it. We get it, we get it, we get it. Um.

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Speaker 1: But to to to address what John is saying here,

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Speaker 1: I get it, man Um, It's hard to level set

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Speaker 1: everyone's perspective on something that you do on social media

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Speaker 1: or otherwise. It's hard to think of what everyone might

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Speaker 1: uh think about something that you've posted or some or

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Speaker 1: some picture or some ways. But there But to his

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Speaker 1: example of piles make smiles. That's obviously not taking into

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Speaker 1: consideration some folks that never shot a pilot Canadian. Dammit, John,

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Speaker 1: Canada geese before you, bastard, John, you got me seeing Canadian.

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Speaker 1: But we do love Canada. Um. And by by the way,

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Speaker 1: a lot of people were upset at a lot of

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Speaker 1: Canadians wrote in last week we're upset at Brian Lynn

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Speaker 1: for saying that hockey is like soccer on ice. And

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Speaker 1: so I just want to say, in in this time

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Speaker 1: of cancel culture, I disavow that statement, um, and I

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Speaker 1: do not want anybody to think that I agree that

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Speaker 1: hockey is soccer on ice. Hockey is a lovely sport

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Speaker 1: played by mostly Canadians, and we love, we love the

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Speaker 1: country of Canada. That that statement was both offensive to

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Speaker 1: Canadians and all Europeans. So good job Brian Lynn. Now

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Speaker 1: we disavalue. Uh, we don't want to get canceled. We're

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Speaker 1: a little bit scared of that, so we like to

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Speaker 1: keep going on our show. So but but anyway, I

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Speaker 1: don't even know what I was saying. Everybody knows when

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Speaker 1: somebody is going to be a little more brass or

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Speaker 1: you know, crass about something like hunting and sharing dead animals.

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Speaker 1: Some people just say, I'm gonna do what I do,

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Speaker 1: and I'm gonna celebrate the way I celebrate and just

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Speaker 1: and I'm not really gonna think about what everyone in

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Speaker 1: the world might think of what I'm up to UM.

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Speaker 1: And I've said in the past the way that I

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Speaker 1: approach it has changed over the years. When I first

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Speaker 1: got into podcast and when I first got into thinking

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Speaker 1: that I might have something to say on a public forum,

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Speaker 1: I really did want to want to tell people to

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Speaker 1: to think hard about this grip and grin and how

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Speaker 1: non hunters viewed us, because I was in a in

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Speaker 1: a in a spot in my life where I was

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Speaker 1: surrounded by a bunch of non hunters at my workplace

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Speaker 1: and in my life, and they are they were all

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Speaker 1: asking me, why do you guys do that? UM? And

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Speaker 1: I wanted to get across the people that that is

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Speaker 1: that is often what what those folks think when they

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Speaker 1: see these grip and grins or whatever images that we

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Speaker 1: throw out there. So I still do believe that, I

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Speaker 1: do believe that you have an opportunity to UM go

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Speaker 1: out there and share something that's going to shine a

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Speaker 1: positive light on everybody. You have that opportunity and you

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Speaker 1: do and almost everything in your life. UM. But at

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Speaker 1: the same time, I'm not going to be the one

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Speaker 1: to tell you what to do. I'm just not. UM.

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Speaker 1: I hope that if you listen to this podcast, you're

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Speaker 1: you're kind of gathering, um, some insights and perspectives on

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Speaker 1: important topics and ways that are productive to move throughout

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Speaker 1: the social media and the rest of your life. I

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Speaker 1: know I have learned and gotten better over over time, UM,

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Speaker 1: and learned what I want to share, what I not

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Speaker 1: want to share, because I think hard about everything I

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Speaker 1: put on social media and I don't really want to

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Speaker 1: live my life there. UM. I want to curate the

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Speaker 1: things I post there in a certain way so that

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Speaker 1: because I know there's a lot of people that follow

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Speaker 1: me there that don't know me, that don't know who

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Speaker 1: I am, that don't know why I say what I say.

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Speaker 1: They're not my inner circle. I've never met them and

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Speaker 1: I probably never will meet them. And so I try

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Speaker 1: to understand my audience. UM. In terms of what John saying, Man,

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Speaker 1: just understand your audience and post what you think is

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Speaker 1: appropriate and you and most people know when they're poking

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Speaker 1: the bear, and know when they're trolling and know when

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Speaker 1: they're throwing this thing that we do back in everyone's

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Speaker 1: face purposefully, and that's something just turns me off. And

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Speaker 1: if I see it, I walk away from it. I

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Speaker 1: don't need it around me. Um, and I don't imagine

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Speaker 1: anybody does. So you feel like that sums her up there, Philip, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: good job, thanks, thanks, But um, I'm gonna crack I

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Speaker 1: need to crack a white claw after some of these,

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Speaker 1: some of these emails. But before we get to anything,

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Speaker 1: before we get to our great friend Janice a lot

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Speaker 1: being eagle patel Us and Sam Longer and to talk

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Speaker 1: about wounding loss, We've got a little not so sharp

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Speaker 1: moment for you. Play the jingle, phil No, just kidding,

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Speaker 1: not so sharp movement, so you don't have to before

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Speaker 1: we get going here on this this uh particular not

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Speaker 1: to a shart moment. We have to continue to address this, folks.

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Speaker 1: I have accounted, and I am looking. I'm trying to

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Speaker 1: find a non poop related not to a sharp moment

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Speaker 1: to read. I'm trying to give you people, uh free

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Speaker 1: field sharpeners from our friends at work sharp and you

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Speaker 1: just can't get off the poop stories and I don't

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Speaker 1: know what it is. I don't know if it's it's

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Speaker 1: something that Phil and I have done to deserve this. Um,

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Speaker 1: where are we at, Phil? What do we do? I

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Speaker 1: think I might just have to read one of them. No,

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Speaker 1: I won't let you. Yeah, yeah, I mean, don't you

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Speaker 1: guys want to win the field sharpener? And yeah, you're not.

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Speaker 1: You're not going to do that with with the poop stories,

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Speaker 1: We've we've talked about this and honestly, I don't even

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Speaker 1: want to acknowledge them. Ben, I feel like we're just

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Speaker 1: it's just encouragement even just bringing it up. This this

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Speaker 1: one came from Jeremy minor Um, and Jeremy says, I

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Speaker 1: submit for your pleasure, a shitty, not so sharp moment.

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Speaker 1: Picture this in your mind if you will. I was

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Speaker 1: new to hunting and was invited by a buddy to

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Speaker 1: partake in the December deer drive with a college buddy

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Speaker 1: and his family. On one particular drive, I asked where

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Speaker 1: should I stand. My buddy proceeds to tell me just

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Speaker 1: walk along the timber line fence next to the waterway

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Speaker 1: until you see a pile of spent shells from a

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Speaker 1: previous hunt. You could stand there. So I did just

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Speaker 1: that and started walking to my spot. It was my

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Speaker 1: first time actually deer hunting, and I was excited. I

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Speaker 1: was walking through some marsh grass with no issues. But

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Speaker 1: as I got close to where I thought I was

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Speaker 1: supposed to stand, I heard a squishing sound. My next

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Speaker 1: step would be one I would never forget. As I

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Speaker 1: took one more step, it felt like I fell into

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Speaker 1: a sinkhole. I found myself up to my waist and

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Speaker 1: what I thought was mud. How you feeling, Phil, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna take a big swing here and guess that it's

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Speaker 1: not mud. M picture of the old Vietnam movies where

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Speaker 1: soldiers are holding their weapons high above their heads while

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Speaker 1: crossing a river. That was me. As I stood there,

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Speaker 1: up to my waist with a old twenty gage held

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Speaker 1: high over my head, I caught a good whiff of

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Speaker 1: a rank stench. As I crawled out, I realized I

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Speaker 1: did not sink into a pit of mud. As my

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Speaker 1: eyes and nose started to burn, I realized quickly I

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Speaker 1: was in a lot of shit, A literal pit of ship,

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Speaker 1: a ship pit. Um. I'm done, I quit. I can't

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Speaker 1: That is I was going to be a serious journalist.

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Speaker 1: You know. When I was in college, people would ask

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Speaker 1: me what are you gonna do? I would say, like

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Speaker 1: change the world, and oh, you're you're saying you're not

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Speaker 1: proud of this man, You're not proud of what you've built. Here.

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Speaker 1: I feel like I'm in a similar ship pit right.

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Speaker 1: I can't get out of it too. I can't get

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Speaker 1: out of it, but let's put our rifles above her

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Speaker 1: heads and move move on. You see, I had actually

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Speaker 1: stepped into a spot where an old leech bed tie

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Speaker 1: had been laid decades ago. This tile happened to be

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Speaker 1: connected to a nearby dairy barn, so as you can imagine,

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Speaker 1: it was ripe. There was nobody around, and I knew

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Speaker 1: the deer drive was beginning, so I leaned forward and

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Speaker 1: laid my belly to try to wiggle myself free from

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Speaker 1: my pitch shiit situation. After a minute or two, I

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Speaker 1: could feel myself slowly coming free and I was able

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Speaker 1: to pull my legs out of this stinky sludge. I

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Speaker 1: managed to get myself completely out, but it wasn't good.

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Speaker 1: Ripe dairy cow shit covered me from the waist down.

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Speaker 1: I was soaked cold and coated in a thick layer

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Speaker 1: of sludge. As I stand there trying to shake the

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Speaker 1: ship clumps off of my pants and boots, trying not

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Speaker 1: to gag and not get my hands or shotguns messy.

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Speaker 1: I realized no deer should be able to ever smell me.

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Speaker 1: So I stood there waiting to finish the deer drive.

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Speaker 1: All of a sudden, from down wind, a nice ten

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Speaker 1: point buck came up from behind me and stopped at

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Speaker 1: about twenty yards. It stood there sniffing the air, trying

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Speaker 1: to figure out if there was a human close by

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Speaker 1: or just some dumbass who fell in some ship. It

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Speaker 1: was my first experience with a deer that close ever

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Speaker 1: in the wild. The drive finished and the buck got away.

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Speaker 1: Wait a minute, the drive finished and the buck got away.

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Speaker 1: How did that happen? But he says, But the stench

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Speaker 1: from my ship soak pants and boots remained. My friends

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Speaker 1: gathered around to point, laugh, and eventually gag. At my situation,

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Speaker 1: there was no way a vehicle ride was going to happen,

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Speaker 1: so I began the slow wattle of shame back up

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Speaker 1: the field to deer camp. My friends were waiting with

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Speaker 1: a hose, ready to begin the process of cleaning up

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Speaker 1: my mess. The pants and Andys went straight into the trash.

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Speaker 1: Luckily it happened to be the same size as another

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Speaker 1: guy in camp who offered a clean, fresh pair of

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Speaker 1: old jeans to get me home. No ondies were offered,

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Speaker 1: so I was told to just keep that pair of jeans.

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Speaker 1: The boots had to be power washed off and were

395
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Speaker 1: able to be salvage, but they rode in the back

396
00:20:57,040 --> 00:20:59,480
Speaker 1: of the truck. It was a fantastic day that led

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Speaker 1: to my deeper passion for friends, family, and hunting white

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Speaker 1: tailed deer. I'm so happy to say I've been hunting

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Speaker 1: with this group of jackasses ever since, and they've supplied

400
00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:10,879
Speaker 1: plenty of notz a sharp moments, including someone getting hit

401
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Speaker 1: in the eye from a baseball pitch of a handwarmer,

402
00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:17,320
Speaker 1: and someone getting stitches because he tried to open a

403
00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:19,960
Speaker 1: sleeve of crackers with a buck knife that slipped from

404
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Speaker 1: his hands and stuck in his leg. You get the picture.

405
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Speaker 1: When we do jew drives at this location, Miner's ship

406
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Speaker 1: hole is a specific spot on the map that brings

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Speaker 1: back a good laugh and a burn to the eyes

408
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Speaker 1: and nostrils. Keep up the good work, Jeremy playing a jingle.

409
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Speaker 1: Phil Sharp not so Sharp moment shop you don't have

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Speaker 1: all right, Well we uh we we we landed in

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Speaker 1: the middle there, buddy. That was that was it was

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Speaker 1: a ship story. But it wasn't it was It wasn't

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Speaker 1: the human variety. So I think we're in the clear.

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Speaker 1: That's the the reason I'm giving it a pass. But

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Speaker 1: I'd like to officially put put an end to digit

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Speaker 1: stories starting right now. Yea, We're never gonna do it again. People,

417
00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:14,520
Speaker 1: people are over. If you send in a ship story

418
00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:17,040
Speaker 1: expecting a field sharpen, you will not receive one. You

419
00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:20,280
Speaker 1: will not received one. But Jeremy will receive one, and

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00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:22,080
Speaker 1: he'll receive one from our friends of work sharp. He's

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00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:23,840
Speaker 1: gonna get a field sharpen. We're gonna ship it right

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00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:25,359
Speaker 1: to his house, be able to sharpen knives and do

423
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:27,200
Speaker 1: all kinds of crazy things with it in the field.

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Speaker 1: You can go over to their YouTube page and check

425
00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:32,399
Speaker 1: out their weekly sharpening tips and all the other continent

426
00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:35,520
Speaker 1: or YouTube page check their website out. Generally, please support

427
00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:38,520
Speaker 1: our advertisers because they support us, and without them we

428
00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:43,359
Speaker 1: do not do this whole thing. So moving on to

429
00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:48,119
Speaker 1: more more not so sharp moments in the woods of

430
00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:51,359
Speaker 1: a more serious nature. We're gonna get ourselves over to

431
00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:55,639
Speaker 1: be honest and Sam to talk about wound loss and archery,

432
00:22:55,960 --> 00:23:05,160
Speaker 1: ELK and beyond. Please enjoy. All right, guys, we are

433
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,600
Speaker 1: gonna talk about some important stuff now. Um, like we

434
00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:11,680
Speaker 1: always do here on t HC. We'll introduce our panel.

435
00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:15,199
Speaker 1: Uh maybe not including Phil because we just heard that

436
00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:17,840
Speaker 1: he still hasn't completed his hunter safety course so he

437
00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:21,760
Speaker 1: can't really commentate on this issue. But first, Sam Longer,

438
00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:26,639
Speaker 1: Hey Sam, howden uh the great Joannice the Eagle to

439
00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:29,800
Speaker 1: tell us, Hey, Johnny, Well, I didn't get a setup

440
00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:32,679
Speaker 1: like that. Yeah, and in the future you can just

441
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:36,119
Speaker 1: say just Johnny too. I'm cool with that, Okay, I

442
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:38,720
Speaker 1: thought I needed to. I always want to build you up. Sam.

443
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:40,359
Speaker 1: We don't have to. You don't have to call me

444
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:43,440
Speaker 1: sir or Mr. Just Johnny is good. Okay, I can

445
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:45,800
Speaker 1: do that for you. Sam. You gotta get yourself a

446
00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:48,679
Speaker 1: good nickname like that. Well, you can't come up with

447
00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:51,160
Speaker 1: your own nickname, then that's not true, because that's how

448
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:59,280
Speaker 1: the Latin and Eagle started. Oh you came up? Okay.

449
00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:03,119
Speaker 1: I didn't propose owes it as a nickname for myself.

450
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:06,920
Speaker 1: I just made a joke that the Labban eagle had

451
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:09,520
Speaker 1: not spotted anything after I had come back from a

452
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:13,840
Speaker 1: glassing session, and it's just sort of stuck. Well for Sam,

453
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:16,159
Speaker 1: he's in listeners obviously won't be able to see this,

454
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:18,159
Speaker 1: but he's in a room with two pronghorns kind of

455
00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:20,280
Speaker 1: flanking him on either side, so we could call you

456
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:27,800
Speaker 1: the pronghorn. I was already planning on it cut that

457
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:32,320
Speaker 1: you cut that out, and there's Philip. The engineers say hello, Philip, Hey,

458
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:35,200
Speaker 1: how's it going? Oh it's going really good? Um. Great.

459
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:37,840
Speaker 1: Once again, for all your listeners were on Squadcast. Are

460
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:40,040
Speaker 1: not a sponsor, so if this has done't sound good

461
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:43,000
Speaker 1: or it's all messed up, it's their fault. Um. And

462
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:45,400
Speaker 1: we'll keep on going here. We're gonna talk about something

463
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:48,639
Speaker 1: today that UM. I don't want to pat ourselves on

464
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 1: the back too early for for really digging into this,

465
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:53,720
Speaker 1: but I do want to start by saying this. I

466
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:57,240
Speaker 1: I believe this is something that isn't quite covered enough

467
00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,600
Speaker 1: and hunting media. It's something we could all think about

468
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:03,320
Speaker 1: a little bit more planned for, a little bit more understand,

469
00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:06,280
Speaker 1: a little bit more, UM on a lot of levels,

470
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:10,400
Speaker 1: and so I you know, and It's happened to almost

471
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:13,040
Speaker 1: every hunter that I know that goes out in the

472
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:15,439
Speaker 1: field in any regular clip. It's happened to me, It's

473
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:18,440
Speaker 1: happened to Sam, It's happened to Yanni, happened Ryan Callahan

474
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:21,920
Speaker 1: last year, happened to Steve Ronella. If you watched our

475
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:25,879
Speaker 1: Colorado episode of Netflix, Um, and his was with the muzzleloader.

476
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:29,639
Speaker 1: So this is uh, I don't I don't know how

477
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:31,560
Speaker 1: we would couch it, Yanni. Would you call it a

478
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:35,040
Speaker 1: common occurrence? How would you kind of describe wounding an

479
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:39,159
Speaker 1: animal and not recovering it in terms of of frequency,

480
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:44,720
Speaker 1: I guess relevancy, yes, sir, And it's certainly higher with

481
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:49,080
Speaker 1: different animals and different methods of take. But I'd say

482
00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:52,800
Speaker 1: that it's uh, it's a constant. How's that. That's a

483
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:56,280
Speaker 1: good one. That's a good one. That's a good one. Sam, Um,

484
00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:58,440
Speaker 1: When you're thinking about this, is this something that you

485
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,000
Speaker 1: I can tell you that in this elk season, as

486
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:04,320
Speaker 1: as we ran around Montana, you know a third of

487
00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:06,640
Speaker 1: the people I talked to that are regular hunters that

488
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:08,959
Speaker 1: do it as much as the folks of us here

489
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:12,360
Speaker 1: that have taken a hunter safety courses do it. We

490
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:15,159
Speaker 1: you know, it's a third of the people have wounded

491
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:18,639
Speaker 1: an elk that I've talked to this year. Um, you know,

492
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:21,280
Speaker 1: what's your what's your thoughts, Just like a general collection

493
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:24,720
Speaker 1: of the people that you talked to, it wouldn't be

494
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:27,880
Speaker 1: dissimilar to to what you've heard. And I've been lucky

495
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 1: to live here in Montana a bit longer than you have,

496
00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:35,480
Speaker 1: and it's like that every year. Every year I hear

497
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:39,440
Speaker 1: about a dozen or more dozen more hunters who had

498
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 1: elk with arrows and then don't find them. Yeah. Yeah,

499
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 1: And I think, as as Janni mentioned, you know, archery

500
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:49,359
Speaker 1: tackle plus the toughness, the historic toughness of an elk

501
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:52,359
Speaker 1: will do that. Um, maybe up the frequency a little

502
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:56,280
Speaker 1: bit in regards to wounding loss, but um, we all

503
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 1: have stories about it. So we're gonna tell some stories

504
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:01,879
Speaker 1: and talk about specific instances and and certainly try to

505
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 1: highlight the emotions and kind of the way that you

506
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:07,920
Speaker 1: think about this, because when when we use the word

507
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:11,240
Speaker 1: wounding loss, loss is really the feeling that I've had

508
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 1: in the past. Um, it's a it's a true feeling

509
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:17,200
Speaker 1: of loss because it's one you value, the animal, you value,

510
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 1: the meat, you value, the experience and losing wounded game

511
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:24,960
Speaker 1: kind of not kind of. It absolutely dampens that entire

512
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:28,840
Speaker 1: experience from from the beginning to of course the end results.

513
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:31,440
Speaker 1: So you know, it's something I take rather seriously. We've

514
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 1: talked about it on this show a couple other times,

515
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:36,119
Speaker 1: but never kind of really in depth. From a lot

516
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:40,159
Speaker 1: of angles. That's what we're gonna do. Um, Sam, you

517
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 1: want to kind of Sam had Sam has the most

518
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:45,320
Speaker 1: recent occurrence of this. UM. I don't know if we'll

519
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:47,359
Speaker 1: call it loss because you ended up finding the animal,

520
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:51,280
Speaker 1: but you did lose a ton of of important and

521
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:57,119
Speaker 1: delicious elk meat in the process. Yeah. Um, so let's see.

522
00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:03,280
Speaker 1: I guess that was mid to late September. Uh, John Dombeck,

523
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:06,880
Speaker 1: our data and analytics guy here at Meat Eater, UH,

524
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:10,160
Speaker 1: and I just tried to sneak out for a before

525
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:14,840
Speaker 1: work hunt, um, pretty pretty close to our our houses. Uh.

526
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:18,719
Speaker 1: Started hiking like four in the morning, got way up

527
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 1: over this mountain and dropped into some super elky country

528
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:28,240
Speaker 1: and I bugled once and had just a big nasty

529
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:31,479
Speaker 1: bugle response. That one of those where it's just like,

530
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 1: oh man, that's a big bowl. And we just we

531
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 1: charged down into where he was. He kept he kept

532
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 1: piping off and we got inside about a hundred yards

533
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 1: and then I was I set set John up kind

534
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 1: of in between and down down wind, tried to cow

535
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:52,840
Speaker 1: call this bowl in through this really dense cover, but

536
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,720
Speaker 1: he hung up, wouldn't come any further. I could tell

537
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:58,080
Speaker 1: he was about fifty yards off, but he was just bugling,

538
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 1: telling the cow to come over to him. And then

539
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,760
Speaker 1: finally I decided to cut him off with a bugle,

540
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:06,840
Speaker 1: and then he took off uphill and John kind of

541
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:10,360
Speaker 1: saw John kind of throw up his hands and and

542
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 1: I was like, no, no no, we let's let's chase him.

543
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:14,560
Speaker 1: I said, come on, and I just went running up

544
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:16,840
Speaker 1: the hill, smashing through the brush. I thought John was

545
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 1: right behind me, um, but it turns out the bowl

546
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 1: had just uh just gone up hill to try to

547
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 1: outflank us. He was coming right back down at me,

548
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:31,120
Speaker 1: just trying to be uphill, trying to have the dominant position. Um.

549
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 1: And I basically just walked. I just walked out into

550
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:38,760
Speaker 1: just a slight little clearing, and there he was standing

551
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 1: there looking at me at thirty yards And I mean

552
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 1: I was in full fusion camera with a face mask

553
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 1: up and arrow already on the string, and he was

554
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:50,200
Speaker 1: looking right at me, but just didn't really you know,

555
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 1: I just didn't really see me. He was kind of

556
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:56,400
Speaker 1: stepping out into the open right as I was, and

557
00:29:56,480 --> 00:30:00,080
Speaker 1: I drew and there was a little bit of a

558
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 1: bush covering up his vitals, and I was just like,

559
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:05,160
Speaker 1: I just you know, I was waiting for him to

560
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:07,840
Speaker 1: take one more step, and he he took that step,

561
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 1: and I was holding right on, you know, right on

562
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 1: his rib cage. I always tried to count a couple

563
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:19,440
Speaker 1: of ribs back from the shoulder, and I let the

564
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:23,840
Speaker 1: arrow fly, and um, right as I did, I just

565
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 1: all I remember is just kind of a flash of

566
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:30,280
Speaker 1: color and he just kind of kind of spun and

567
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 1: took off. I and I mean it with within all

568
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:38,920
Speaker 1: of that, I couldn't really see the flight of my arrow,

569
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:41,880
Speaker 1: but I know it went the direction I you know,

570
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:45,520
Speaker 1: told it too. But I thought I missed. I I didn't.

571
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:50,400
Speaker 1: I didn't hear the thwack that you that you look for,

572
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 1: that you that you want to hear with an arrow impact,

573
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:57,080
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, I was kind of stunned. It

574
00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:00,480
Speaker 1: all happened really fast, and then then you know, five

575
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:05,320
Speaker 1: minutes later, John finally finally crushed up through the brush

576
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:08,600
Speaker 1: to me and and sees me with you on my

577
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:13,120
Speaker 1: hat off and it Stephanie goes, what what happened? I

578
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:15,120
Speaker 1: was like, I just shot at that bowl. He's like,

579
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:17,400
Speaker 1: what you saw it? Again? I thought it was gone?

580
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:20,440
Speaker 1: Um so he I mean, he was, you know, probably

581
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 1: forty yards behind me. Hadn't even had any idea that

582
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:27,480
Speaker 1: I had had that that direct interaction with it. We

583
00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 1: walked up and we're just, you know, going to look

584
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:32,120
Speaker 1: for my arrow because, like I said, I thought I

585
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:37,280
Speaker 1: missed because I didn't hear the impact. But there there's

586
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:40,479
Speaker 1: a there's my arrow covered laying They're covered in blood

587
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 1: and there's big spurts of blood all over the place,

588
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 1: and we're like, well, what do you know? Looks like

589
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:51,840
Speaker 1: it looks like I did tag him. Uh So it wasn't,

590
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 1: you know, it was it clear there's a full pastor

591
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:57,320
Speaker 1: at that point it was yeah, yeah, but it wasn't.

592
00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:00,760
Speaker 1: It was clearly not lung blood, there weren't bubbles in it.

593
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:04,960
Speaker 1: But it was also clearly not gut blood because it

594
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:07,960
Speaker 1: didn't have that smell. So it was a little bit

595
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:10,360
Speaker 1: hard to parse out. And like I said, I just

596
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 1: I just didn't get a clear view of the of

597
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:18,360
Speaker 1: the arrow impact because the bowl kind of spun at

598
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 1: the sound of the bow. Like I know, the arrow

599
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 1: flew straight, but the but the bowl reacted to the

600
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 1: sound of the the bow going off and took off.

601
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 1: So I just I didn't really know what to think.

602
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 1: But we waited for an hour and a half. We

603
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:39,520
Speaker 1: both kind of called in to work to let folks

604
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 1: know what was afoot and that we might not be

605
00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:47,400
Speaker 1: sitting at our laptops hammering away. Uh right, first thing

606
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:49,880
Speaker 1: at nine am, I mean then this this, This was

607
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:58,240
Speaker 1: I think eight thirty in the morning. Um. Yeah, So

608
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 1: we we gave it quite a while. I'm always super

609
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:03,720
Speaker 1: cautious with elk not to not to try to blood

610
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 1: trail too quickly and bump them. Um. But then we

611
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:12,480
Speaker 1: started started off on the on the blood trail. Um,

612
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 1: pretty dense stuff, lots of blown old, blown down and

613
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:20,120
Speaker 1: burnt trees. But it was pretty good blood. I like

614
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:22,960
Speaker 1: to go along and wherever I find blood, I put

615
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:25,600
Speaker 1: a stick in the ground so that I can line

616
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:29,080
Speaker 1: up those sticks later on if I lose blood. I

617
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:31,320
Speaker 1: can kind of get a feel for the general direction

618
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:37,040
Speaker 1: of travel. Um. We followed that blood trail for I

619
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:40,800
Speaker 1: believe about three or four hundred yards kind of up

620
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:44,080
Speaker 1: uphill and kind of over this rise, and then it

621
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:48,480
Speaker 1: kind of just started trickle out to pin pricks and

622
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 1: then just disappeared and we got We were down our

623
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:54,640
Speaker 1: hands and knees for quite a while looking trying to

624
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 1: pick it up, because there was it was kind of

625
00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:58,520
Speaker 1: that kind of at a divergence, it's like there's a

626
00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:00,720
Speaker 1: major game trail going off one way, a major game

627
00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:05,800
Speaker 1: trail going off another way. The feeling that I got

628
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:07,960
Speaker 1: from the general direction of travel was more of like

629
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 1: a left trajectory, which would have made sense going downhill

630
00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:15,960
Speaker 1: into a bit of a swampy, uh kind of water

631
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:22,040
Speaker 1: hole wallow area. And so we left our stuff at

632
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 1: the at the last blood, you know, and I started

633
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:29,160
Speaker 1: tracking myself on on X and I had John track himself,

634
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:31,600
Speaker 1: and we we went off and kind of the natural

635
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:34,879
Speaker 1: fall lines, the natural ways we would have we would

636
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:38,400
Speaker 1: have thought it might have gone, and then just started

637
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:41,960
Speaker 1: doing loops, trying not to cover the same country twice.

638
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:45,600
Speaker 1: By looking at our tracks, it was really deliberately trying

639
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:48,480
Speaker 1: to grid out the country, trying to cover everything because

640
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:51,719
Speaker 1: you know, how those high mountain forests are. Can it

641
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:58,160
Speaker 1: can kind of start to look pretty uniform after a while. Um,

642
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:02,120
Speaker 1: we kept looking, kept looking, Uh, just couldn't pick up

643
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:06,439
Speaker 1: any more blood, couldn't couldn't find the animal. We went

644
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:10,920
Speaker 1: back and and and kept, you know, just scouring the

645
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:13,400
Speaker 1: area around the last blood, trying to pick up that

646
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:17,800
Speaker 1: next drop to give us a sense of the trajectory.

647
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:23,880
Speaker 1: But you know, all of a sudden, it's like noon,

648
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:27,920
Speaker 1: one o'clock and John had work piling up in a

649
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:32,480
Speaker 1: big meeting he had to lead later that afternoon. Um,

650
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:35,600
Speaker 1: we're both out of water, we're both out of food

651
00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:38,359
Speaker 1: because you know, it was going to be a morning hunt.

652
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:40,800
Speaker 1: Wanted to be light. We had to climb two thousand

653
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:43,960
Speaker 1: feet up in the dark. And um, but you know,

654
00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:47,719
Speaker 1: we got pretty stressed out by the whole situation. Ended

655
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:49,560
Speaker 1: up slugging down on a bunch of water and a

656
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 1: bunch of food. And you know, I had responsibilities, John

657
00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:57,319
Speaker 1: had responsibilities, and uh, we ended up making the call

658
00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:01,880
Speaker 1: to back out, um, figuring the animal went aways and

659
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:05,160
Speaker 1: we didn't want to push it. Um, which I feel

660
00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:08,440
Speaker 1: is a pretty standard decision to make. A lot of

661
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:10,440
Speaker 1: people will do that. You don't want to kind of

662
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:12,960
Speaker 1: give it a minute, come back with a fresh mind.

663
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:16,239
Speaker 1: So we ran home. I bust out a bunch of work,

664
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:21,120
Speaker 1: John did his meeting. UM we were able to you know,

665
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:23,880
Speaker 1: talk to a bunch of co workers and see if

666
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:29,560
Speaker 1: anybody wanted to come help us look. Spencer new Hearth volunteered, UM,

667
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:35,600
Speaker 1: and we headed back in around for thirty. Uh me

668
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:38,319
Speaker 1: a little bit ahead of Well, No, they got there

669
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:39,920
Speaker 1: a little early, and they came up and met me.

670
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:45,640
Speaker 1: UM got back up, looked until dark, couldn't find any

671
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:48,600
Speaker 1: more blood. You know, big kept doing big loops through

672
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:53,320
Speaker 1: the country. But I packed. I packed over night gear um,

673
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:57,120
Speaker 1: thinking that might happen. So they walked out. I spent

674
00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:00,400
Speaker 1: I spent the night just under the stars at the

675
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:05,080
Speaker 1: point where I found the last blood, and uh woke

676
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:11,399
Speaker 1: up again at first light and just kept looking, kept

677
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:15,680
Speaker 1: doing loops, kept you know, keeping my eye on the

678
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:21,359
Speaker 1: on X track and just you know, trying to fill

679
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:24,240
Speaker 1: in the blanks and the just kind of the broad

680
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:28,959
Speaker 1: array of directions where he could have gone. Then about Sam,

681
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:30,719
Speaker 1: when I got a question, when you're doing that, when

682
00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:34,880
Speaker 1: you're doing that gritting, what's your like average distance between

683
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:38,719
Speaker 1: track lines? That you're trying to, you know, keep so

684
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:40,960
Speaker 1: that you're not going, you know, too far that you're

685
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:43,200
Speaker 1: missing something, but not like right on top of itself.

686
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:45,600
Speaker 1: Do you have a number that you kind of shoot for,

687
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:49,359
Speaker 1: you know, Johnny, it was it was a little bit

688
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:52,880
Speaker 1: more frenetic than that. I didn't have anything in particular.

689
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:55,759
Speaker 1: I was just at a at a you know, relatively

690
00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:58,719
Speaker 1: tight zoom range. I was trying to keep it probably

691
00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:02,960
Speaker 1: about fifty seven five hundred yards off of my other tracks,

692
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:06,040
Speaker 1: but my first tracks were just kind of zig zags

693
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:08,480
Speaker 1: all over the place. We were just I was just running,

694
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:10,439
Speaker 1: and we were just running through the country, just trying

695
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:12,719
Speaker 1: to cover as much of it as we could. And

696
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:14,799
Speaker 1: so then after that, I was I was trying to

697
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:19,400
Speaker 1: just do my best to cover in the blank spots

698
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:22,360
Speaker 1: after that. And so you slept, you slept out. You

699
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:25,399
Speaker 1: just roll out of sleeping bag and and just lay

700
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:28,759
Speaker 1: under the stars. Yeah. Yeah, didn't bring didn't bring a tent.

701
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:32,239
Speaker 1: It was it had gotten fairly warm, pretty warm that day. Um,

702
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 1: it had been pretty cool the day before and it

703
00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:37,480
Speaker 1: was very cool the rest of the week, but it

704
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:39,480
Speaker 1: did get warm that day is when we had a

705
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:41,799
Speaker 1: bunch of smoke, but the wind kind of blew out

706
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:45,319
Speaker 1: the smoke that day and it was direct sunlight. Yeah,

707
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:48,239
Speaker 1: but about go ahead, well that you know, you you

708
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:51,759
Speaker 1: when you're laying out there in the at night at

709
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:54,040
Speaker 1: you like your confidence waynes I always try to think

710
00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:55,960
Speaker 1: of like when do I start the grid search or

711
00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:58,719
Speaker 1: and when do I narrow in on just where it

712
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:01,680
Speaker 1: just a blood trail? Uh? Like what's that? You know,

713
00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:05,520
Speaker 1: what's the dividing line between those two things? Um? And

714
00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:08,200
Speaker 1: at the same time, you got to think about like

715
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:11,359
Speaker 1: people should should hear from you that, you know during

716
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:13,680
Speaker 1: that evening, what are you thinking? You know, you're laying

717
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:16,120
Speaker 1: out there thinking I'm screwed here, this is a waste

718
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:18,759
Speaker 1: of time, or like you know, what's the what's the

719
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:21,919
Speaker 1: what's going through your head? So what was going through

720
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:25,480
Speaker 1: my head is just like I can't believe this is

721
00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:29,200
Speaker 1: happening again. You know, this happened to me once before,

722
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:36,200
Speaker 1: and and I you know, really I didn't ever want

723
00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:38,279
Speaker 1: to let it happen again. I really like swore to

724
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:40,720
Speaker 1: myself that it wouldn't happen again, that I would only

725
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:45,880
Speaker 1: make really good shots on ELK, that I would always

726
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:48,920
Speaker 1: be as close as I could I would practice as

727
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:51,920
Speaker 1: much as I possibly could. I would shoot my broad

728
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:55,799
Speaker 1: heads as often as I could, because that's, you know,

729
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:58,600
Speaker 1: giant differential that a lot of people failed to account

730
00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:01,000
Speaker 1: for that broadheads just don't fly. I like field points.

731
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:04,799
Speaker 1: So I was, I was beating myself up left and right.

732
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 1: I was in a really bad place mentally. Um, I

733
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:15,040
Speaker 1: was just just it's extremely upset. I barely slept that night,

734
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:20,080
Speaker 1: you know, it was. I was when first light started

735
00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:23,799
Speaker 1: to you know, kind of illuminate the landscape a little bit.

736
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:25,560
Speaker 1: I was just I was just sitting there awake and

737
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:30,560
Speaker 1: got up and started looking again. Yeah, that's a feeling

738
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:33,920
Speaker 1: that we'll we'll let you finish your story, but I

739
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:35,960
Speaker 1: do want to talk about like that feeling and if

740
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:39,800
Speaker 1: if it's comparable to anything else in life. Um, because

741
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:42,160
Speaker 1: it's a it's a shifty feeling. I mean, you can

742
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 1: describe it in many in many ways, but I've I've

743
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:48,160
Speaker 1: certainly had it um before too. Or you just can't sleep,

744
00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:51,600
Speaker 1: you don't know, they're so you you're replaying the story

745
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:53,680
Speaker 1: you just told. You end up replaying that story in

746
00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:56,400
Speaker 1: your head every time you close your eyes. You're like,

747
00:40:56,719 --> 00:40:58,480
Speaker 1: if I would have just if I would have if

748
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:02,560
Speaker 1: I only could have. Why didn't I this question? Yeah? Yeah,

749
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:08,399
Speaker 1: And the hardest part about that is is when you

750
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:15,800
Speaker 1: don't have, you know, you don't necessarily have some sort

751
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 1: of error to point to. I made what I felt

752
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:26,279
Speaker 1: like was a good, clean, ethical, broadside shot. The arrow

753
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:32,240
Speaker 1: went exactly where it was supposed to go. It passed

754
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:35,280
Speaker 1: cleanly through the elk. I'm not sure where at this point,

755
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:38,239
Speaker 1: I'm not sure where it passed through the elk. But

756
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:40,960
Speaker 1: you know, the thirty thirty yards is a is a

757
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:43,840
Speaker 1: chip shot. I don't take shots past forty yards in

758
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:46,160
Speaker 1: the field, but I feel like thirty as well within

759
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:51,440
Speaker 1: my wheelhouse, and it was you know, I felt like

760
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:53,080
Speaker 1: I had him dead to right, So I felt like

761
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:58,279
Speaker 1: I did everything right. I knew I didn't push him

762
00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:00,920
Speaker 1: off a off a bed or anything. We waited nearly

763
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:05,120
Speaker 1: two hours before following the blood trail in a significant way. So,

764
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:08,440
Speaker 1: you know, sometimes when when you can look at a

765
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:12,720
Speaker 1: mistake and have that to point to, then you can

766
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:16,600
Speaker 1: seek to correct that mistake the next time. But when

767
00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:24,680
Speaker 1: there's a lack of you know, learning or you know, uh,

768
00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:28,920
Speaker 1: some lesson in it, but the lesson is obscured, it

769
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:33,040
Speaker 1: makes it more difficult to process mentally, so so saying

770
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:35,400
Speaker 1: he was so chewed up you couldn't tell where the

771
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:39,640
Speaker 1: impact was when you found him. Yeah, Yeah, it was

772
00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:41,359
Speaker 1: right at the back of the rib cage, so it

773
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:44,319
Speaker 1: was liver blood that I was looking at. Oh so

774
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:52,600
Speaker 1: you do know that you hit him back? Yep? M janny.

775
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:55,160
Speaker 1: Did you ever have that that sense when you're in

776
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:59,000
Speaker 1: a situation like this where you feel like you've done everything,

777
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:01,200
Speaker 1: just about every thing you can do, and maybe the

778
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:04,440
Speaker 1: animal did something you didn't expect, or they just circumstances

779
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:06,720
Speaker 1: like where there's just you have no control over the outcome.

780
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:11,040
Speaker 1: Sometimes how matter much of practice, unless you think about this,

781
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:14,279
Speaker 1: I'm gonna critically are of yourself. Well, I mean, there's

782
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:18,960
Speaker 1: always things that are out of out of your control,

783
00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:22,160
Speaker 1: and it just depends on what what part of the

784
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:27,080
Speaker 1: this whole, the story or the um you know, the process,

785
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:30,000
Speaker 1: which part you want to you know, talk about, because

786
00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:33,080
Speaker 1: you know you can only control so much. And as

787
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:34,920
Speaker 1: much as we all think we can even control our

788
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:38,040
Speaker 1: own brains and emotions in the moment of truth as

789
00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:41,120
Speaker 1: they call it, when when you're taking the shot, even

790
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:45,040
Speaker 1: that sometimes gets away from us, and uh, you know.

791
00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:48,040
Speaker 1: That's why when I'm shooting, especially these days, I shoot

792
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:51,200
Speaker 1: fewer arrows and I just try to take like take

793
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:54,719
Speaker 1: a solid minute or two between every single arrow, and

794
00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:56,600
Speaker 1: that way, when I put an arrow on my string,

795
00:43:56,640 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, like, Okay, this is the one. Make sure

796
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:01,480
Speaker 1: that this is the one that is going to go

797
00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:04,480
Speaker 1: exactly where you want it to be. And like I

798
00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:06,960
Speaker 1: like to go weeks on end where I don't have

799
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:10,200
Speaker 1: a bad hit on a target. Uh. And last night,

800
00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:13,440
Speaker 1: actually I was shooting and had like I had an

801
00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:15,799
Speaker 1: instance where I had been holding probably a little bit

802
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:18,399
Speaker 1: longer than I usually do, and then the wind kind

803
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:20,200
Speaker 1: of kicked up and it blew my bow off a

804
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:23,040
Speaker 1: target a little bit, and I came back to it

805
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:26,680
Speaker 1: and I was starting to like lose my back strength

806
00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:28,839
Speaker 1: a little bit, and I could feel that I was collapsing.

807
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:32,319
Speaker 1: And what I should have done is let down and

808
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:36,400
Speaker 1: then refocused and try it again. But instead I just

809
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:41,279
Speaker 1: I lost focus, and my brain, you know, said, I

810
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:43,440
Speaker 1: was just like, now you can still pull this off,

811
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:46,279
Speaker 1: you know, and I shot and it ended up what

812
00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:50,840
Speaker 1: would have been like a very far forward like brisket shot,

813
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:54,800
Speaker 1: you know, might have been into the cavity. Maybe not me.

814
00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:56,840
Speaker 1: It's hard to tell when you're shooting at a deer target,

815
00:44:56,880 --> 00:45:01,160
Speaker 1: you know, But um, yeah, I don't know. It just

816
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:03,719
Speaker 1: depends on what part of what part of it all

817
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:07,400
Speaker 1: you want to talk about that you can or cannot control. Um.

818
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:09,560
Speaker 1: I mean, I've been on blood trails and where you

819
00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:11,160
Speaker 1: think you're gonna find them, and then all of a sudden,

820
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:13,680
Speaker 1: it just starts raining that turns into snow and it

821
00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:17,400
Speaker 1: gets dark and the next morning there's of eight inches.

822
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:19,480
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter if it's two inches or eight inches,

823
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:23,040
Speaker 1: but there's so much snow on the ground that there

824
00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:25,000
Speaker 1: is no more trailing at that point. And so it

825
00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:27,720
Speaker 1: goes from like being a blood trail into a grid

826
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:31,359
Speaker 1: search like Sam was just describing, and that's totally out

827
00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:37,040
Speaker 1: of your control. I mean, there are people that if

828
00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:40,279
Speaker 1: you knew that weather was coming that and and I

829
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:43,239
Speaker 1: think all of us should that should like adjust what

830
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:46,319
Speaker 1: sort of shot you're gonna take right where it's four

831
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:48,479
Speaker 1: pm and you know it's gonna be dark in three

832
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:52,239
Speaker 1: hours and you have rain that's gonna turn into snow overnight,

833
00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:55,840
Speaker 1: you should probably only be taking shots where you're like,

834
00:45:55,840 --> 00:45:58,520
Speaker 1: when I release this arrow, that elk or beer or

835
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:02,200
Speaker 1: whatever is only gonna go twenty fifty or a hundred

836
00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:04,799
Speaker 1: yards and keel over and die like there's not gonna

837
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:07,680
Speaker 1: be any Like I wonder if this shot is going

838
00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:12,000
Speaker 1: to kill him? Um instances, right, because you know that

839
00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:14,040
Speaker 1: there's a higher chance that if you're on a blood trailer,

840
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:17,080
Speaker 1: you're gonna end up losing it. Um. So yeah, I

841
00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:19,719
Speaker 1: don't know. I think they answer your question is it's

842
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:22,839
Speaker 1: very difficult. There's just so much that's you know, that's

843
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:25,960
Speaker 1: out of your control. And uh, it just points to

844
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:28,920
Speaker 1: the fact that we should all do our best when

845
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:31,920
Speaker 1: we're practicing and when we're in the moment of truth

846
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:35,719
Speaker 1: of you know, controlling what we can control and being

847
00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:38,120
Speaker 1: as good at it as we can. Yeah, that's a

848
00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:40,560
Speaker 1: skilling of itself. Man, That's that's a skill very much

849
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:45,480
Speaker 1: akin to sports. Um, being able to perform in the

850
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:47,480
Speaker 1: you know, to do what you've practiced in a pressure

851
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:51,479
Speaker 1: field moment like that's not that's not too far away

852
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:54,120
Speaker 1: from an analogy to a basketball player, football player, somebody

853
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:56,120
Speaker 1: that you know it's all on the line and you

854
00:46:56,200 --> 00:46:58,720
Speaker 1: gotta do it for them. It's just a fake trophy.

855
00:46:58,719 --> 00:47:02,040
Speaker 1: But yeah, in this case, there's there's real consequences. So

856
00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:05,279
Speaker 1: but you don't I guess and control. What I had

857
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:07,600
Speaker 1: in my head based on Sam's story up to this

858
00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:11,120
Speaker 1: point is that moment when you release the arrow, you

859
00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:14,640
Speaker 1: put the arrow exactly where you wanted just so happens

860
00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:16,640
Speaker 1: the animal is not in the spot where it was

861
00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:19,560
Speaker 1: when you pulled the trigger or release the arrow. And

862
00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:22,160
Speaker 1: this at this point and so as much as you

863
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:25,560
Speaker 1: can't control the rest of the scenario, even the scenario

864
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:27,719
Speaker 1: where your thirty yards from from an elk, and I

865
00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:31,200
Speaker 1: think the dynamics of calling an elk certainly changed this

866
00:47:31,239 --> 00:47:34,160
Speaker 1: a bit because they're moving into you, across from you.

867
00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:36,880
Speaker 1: That it's not sitting in a tree stands shooting down

868
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:39,560
Speaker 1: at a deer walking down a trail when he doesn't

869
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:43,080
Speaker 1: know you're there. So so you know, I just think

870
00:47:43,160 --> 00:47:46,440
Speaker 1: even the moment of kill, you know which I want

871
00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:48,560
Speaker 1: to talk about this idea of fair kill rather than

872
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:51,960
Speaker 1: fair chase. Even at the moment of kill, even if

873
00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:55,000
Speaker 1: you when that air releases, if it flies to the

874
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:58,040
Speaker 1: hole in the timber that Sam shot through, and you think, perfect,

875
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:01,680
Speaker 1: that's a dead elk, and that elk spins, takes a step,

876
00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:06,520
Speaker 1: reacts in a certain way. Um, yeah, your lack of

877
00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:11,080
Speaker 1: control even in that micro scenario is clear. So yeah,

878
00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:12,959
Speaker 1: it's it's enough to throw it off and you can't

879
00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:14,760
Speaker 1: beat yourself up for it. I mean, if you're honest

880
00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:17,040
Speaker 1: with yourself and the end, you really did everything that

881
00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:19,839
Speaker 1: could be done, and you bear down and you took

882
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:21,880
Speaker 1: the extra time to make the shot, and you can

883
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:24,000
Speaker 1: say no, I did not rush it, and my pin

884
00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:27,400
Speaker 1: was rested and the animal was there, you know, and

885
00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:29,680
Speaker 1: the animal wasn't aware of me. That's a big thing

886
00:48:29,719 --> 00:48:33,040
Speaker 1: to write where if you're on an animal and he's

887
00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:35,520
Speaker 1: like aware of you and he's like, uh, you know,

888
00:48:35,560 --> 00:48:39,440
Speaker 1: they're gonna most likely there could jump or wheel. So

889
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:42,200
Speaker 1: that's again something to be considered in that moment of truth.

890
00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:44,160
Speaker 1: It gets tough, but again, yeah, you're totally right if

891
00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:47,160
Speaker 1: you're if you can, if you're honestly yourself and you

892
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:49,520
Speaker 1: say you did everything to the best of your ability,

893
00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:52,760
Speaker 1: and then the animal spins or there is a branch

894
00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:55,080
Speaker 1: that you know you couldn't see even though Sam said

895
00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:59,080
Speaker 1: there was a branch there. Um, there's there's certainly times

896
00:48:59,640 --> 00:49:01,640
Speaker 1: I didn't with the rifle once where like I shot

897
00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:04,920
Speaker 1: a deer and did not kill the deer, didn't even

898
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:07,200
Speaker 1: hit him. And turns out that you know, I shot

899
00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:10,120
Speaker 1: up it was like a two inch sapling that completely

900
00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:12,840
Speaker 1: like just was not registered by my brain as it

901
00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:17,920
Speaker 1: was you know, cover that was in front of its vitals. Um.

902
00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:21,840
Speaker 1: So yeah, well, Sam, give us a give us the update,

903
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:23,719
Speaker 1: and let's hear the rest of the story, because I

904
00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:26,200
Speaker 1: think the end when you actually find the cells as

905
00:49:26,239 --> 00:49:30,160
Speaker 1: interesting as anything. But but keep on going. Yeah. So,

906
00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:32,719
Speaker 1: like I said, I just kind of kept trying to

907
00:49:32,760 --> 00:49:35,719
Speaker 1: fill in the grid that next morning, and I think

908
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:38,640
Speaker 1: it was I mean it was right around eight thirty

909
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:44,960
Speaker 1: the next morning, so about twenty four hours after after

910
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:48,799
Speaker 1: the shot. Um, I was walking through this kind of

911
00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:53,360
Speaker 1: low meadow and caught a got a smell, you know,

912
00:49:53,640 --> 00:49:57,319
Speaker 1: scent of something dead. Um. It was pretty faint, but

913
00:49:57,560 --> 00:50:00,040
Speaker 1: you know, you know when you smell it. And I

914
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:02,960
Speaker 1: pulled out my my little wind checker because there wasn't

915
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:07,319
Speaker 1: a definitive wind direction that I could really take note of,

916
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:10,640
Speaker 1: and so I was just puffing and then going in

917
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:15,680
Speaker 1: the exact opposite direction of of the you know, the

918
00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:18,879
Speaker 1: dust from my my wind checker going up wind kept

919
00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:24,080
Speaker 1: going up this little gully. Um, following that scent got stronger,

920
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:26,560
Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden I came over a

921
00:50:26,680 --> 00:50:32,840
Speaker 1: rise and there was just chaos and commotion. And I

922
00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:36,000
Speaker 1: had brought my dog in with me that night, not

923
00:50:36,160 --> 00:50:38,880
Speaker 1: that he's you know, a blood trailing dog or anything,

924
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:43,319
Speaker 1: just thinking, you know, you know, he has better knows

925
00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:45,080
Speaker 1: than I do, and I wanted a little bit of

926
00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:50,279
Speaker 1: company sleeping out overnight. He starts going nuts. Um. But

927
00:50:50,440 --> 00:50:52,680
Speaker 1: you know, pretty quickly I realized that they were just

928
00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:58,840
Speaker 1: bears everywhere in in in this little this little gullie.

929
00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:01,239
Speaker 1: I didn't even bet for register that there was a

930
00:51:01,239 --> 00:51:04,200
Speaker 1: dead elk on the ground, but you know, obviously made sense.

931
00:51:04,239 --> 00:51:09,320
Speaker 1: But um, I saw so kind of as the picture

932
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:13,080
Speaker 1: became clear, I saw a big sow brown black bear.

933
00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:17,400
Speaker 1: She was woofing at me up on her hind legs,

934
00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:20,440
Speaker 1: about seventy five yards off. And then I registered that

935
00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:24,839
Speaker 1: she had to year old cubs up a tree. Kind

936
00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:27,440
Speaker 1: of right buyer. And so I was like backing off,

937
00:51:27,640 --> 00:51:30,240
Speaker 1: going whoa, whoa, whoa. I had my had my pistol

938
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:36,879
Speaker 1: drawn the safety off, my bear spray too on my hip, um,

939
00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:39,600
Speaker 1: and just kind of backing off giving them some space.

940
00:51:40,560 --> 00:51:46,080
Speaker 1: And then I hear big and it's straight above me.

941
00:51:46,920 --> 00:51:50,080
Speaker 1: And I looked up and saw another probably hundred and

942
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:53,400
Speaker 1: fifty pound black bear up a tree directly above my

943
00:51:53,440 --> 00:51:56,760
Speaker 1: head that I had like backed up to. So there's

944
00:51:56,880 --> 00:51:59,719
Speaker 1: four bears in there. Three of them had gone off

945
00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:02,360
Speaker 1: one way, one had gone another way, and I was

946
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:05,040
Speaker 1: right underneath and one of them. And you know that that,

947
00:52:05,160 --> 00:52:08,920
Speaker 1: you know, kind of threw me into a different level of,

948
00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:13,120
Speaker 1: you know, kind of concerned for the situation. I backed

949
00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:17,400
Speaker 1: out a little bit further, yelling the whole time, um,

950
00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:20,160
Speaker 1: but you know, letting them know that they could get

951
00:52:20,160 --> 00:52:22,000
Speaker 1: out of their trees. And as soon as I saw

952
00:52:22,040 --> 00:52:24,839
Speaker 1: that bigger one come out of the tree, I kind

953
00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:27,800
Speaker 1: of kind of rushed it a little bit and shouted,

954
00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:29,959
Speaker 1: and it ran off, and the cubs had come down

955
00:52:30,120 --> 00:52:34,359
Speaker 1: and they ran off, and I just kind of made

956
00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:38,840
Speaker 1: a big scene. UM, fired my pistol once into the ground,

957
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:44,360
Speaker 1: just kind of for good measure, and claimed the claimed

958
00:52:44,360 --> 00:52:48,439
Speaker 1: the carcass. Um my bowl was bull was lying there

959
00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:53,560
Speaker 1: by far the biggest bull elk I've ever killed. Um,

960
00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:57,719
Speaker 1: it's really cool animal, really old, it's been I think

961
00:52:57,800 --> 00:53:01,680
Speaker 1: Ben you said, he's probably you know, kind of in

962
00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:04,040
Speaker 1: regression probably used to be bigger than he was now

963
00:53:04,120 --> 00:53:08,640
Speaker 1: his his bases are like six eight inches around. It's

964
00:53:08,680 --> 00:53:10,200
Speaker 1: the kind of it's the it's the kind of elk

965
00:53:10,239 --> 00:53:12,040
Speaker 1: have you've been out there a long time doing it

966
00:53:12,560 --> 00:53:15,120
Speaker 1: that you really want to kill. I mean, it's just

967
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:17,680
Speaker 1: the not only uniqueness of what was on its head,

968
00:53:17,719 --> 00:53:21,440
Speaker 1: but obviously the age and just the narties just just

969
00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:24,279
Speaker 1: by the head that I saw later on, just a

970
00:53:24,320 --> 00:53:28,200
Speaker 1: gnarly noble by by the looks of of his just

971
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:33,680
Speaker 1: his skull and his anilers. Yeah, yeah, tough motherfucker. Um,

972
00:53:33,719 --> 00:53:40,320
Speaker 1: but he had you know, he was completely rotten. Um

973
00:53:40,520 --> 00:53:45,560
Speaker 1: bears had eaten the pile of meat off them. So

974
00:53:45,600 --> 00:53:49,520
Speaker 1: he's just torn apart, rotten. I mean the ground around

975
00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:57,680
Speaker 1: him was moving with maggots. It was very very gruesome. Um.

976
00:53:57,719 --> 00:54:00,440
Speaker 1: I was. I was just devastated. I mean I was.

977
00:54:00,480 --> 00:54:06,000
Speaker 1: I was crying. It was very very upset. Um. And

978
00:54:06,160 --> 00:54:08,080
Speaker 1: I had been going light and fast. I didn't carry

979
00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:10,719
Speaker 1: my pack with me when I went out looking that

980
00:54:10,760 --> 00:54:13,000
Speaker 1: morning because I just wanted to be moving fast, covering

981
00:54:13,040 --> 00:54:16,040
Speaker 1: as much country as I could, So I didn't have

982
00:54:16,080 --> 00:54:18,480
Speaker 1: a didn't have a sharp knife, so I need to

983
00:54:18,520 --> 00:54:20,680
Speaker 1: walk away for a second I walked back to my pack,

984
00:54:21,280 --> 00:54:27,879
Speaker 1: he had gone about another half a mile maybe from

985
00:54:27,920 --> 00:54:31,400
Speaker 1: the last blood, and I followed very clearly along the

986
00:54:31,520 --> 00:54:35,400
Speaker 1: major game trail he had followed, seeing just no blood

987
00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:36,920
Speaker 1: at all. And I came and I went and got

988
00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:39,319
Speaker 1: my knife in my pack and my stuff, and I

989
00:54:39,400 --> 00:54:45,239
Speaker 1: came back again looking again just zero blood. Zero. You

990
00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:46,640
Speaker 1: know this. I mean, there's a lot of elk in

991
00:54:46,680 --> 00:54:49,280
Speaker 1: that country, so you know there's elk sign, but nothing

992
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:54,520
Speaker 1: really distinctive as like that big bowl and and coming

993
00:54:54,520 --> 00:54:58,040
Speaker 1: back in again, um one of the bears that order

994
00:54:58,080 --> 00:55:00,000
Speaker 1: you returned and I had to run it off again.

995
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:07,640
Speaker 1: And uh, but I was looking at my on X track,

996
00:55:07,719 --> 00:55:12,200
Speaker 1: and I had walked within within a hundred and fifty

997
00:55:12,400 --> 00:55:17,200
Speaker 1: feet of him the day before when John and I

998
00:55:17,239 --> 00:55:20,520
Speaker 1: were up there that that morning, and it's just such thick,

999
00:55:20,600 --> 00:55:23,880
Speaker 1: dense country, and I was just kind of over a

1000
00:55:23,920 --> 00:55:26,840
Speaker 1: little rise in the next gully and I just didn't

1001
00:55:26,840 --> 00:55:31,719
Speaker 1: see him. So you know, I was damned close to

1002
00:55:31,840 --> 00:55:34,359
Speaker 1: just walking right up to him. If I had, if

1003
00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:43,120
Speaker 1: I had been just thirty yards to the east and

1004
00:55:43,200 --> 00:55:45,279
Speaker 1: higher up on a little finger, I definitely would have

1005
00:55:45,320 --> 00:55:51,120
Speaker 1: seen him. But I didn't thirty yards man. Yeah, that's

1006
00:55:51,120 --> 00:55:53,120
Speaker 1: got to be the part of the tough The toughest

1007
00:55:53,120 --> 00:55:56,080
Speaker 1: part is knowing how close in so many ways you

1008
00:55:56,160 --> 00:55:59,360
Speaker 1: were to you know, just if he would have bled

1009
00:55:59,360 --> 00:56:01,360
Speaker 1: just a little bit more, if you'd have been thirty yards,

1010
00:56:01,440 --> 00:56:02,600
Speaker 1: or if that air would have been a couple of

1011
00:56:02,640 --> 00:56:07,160
Speaker 1: inches you know to the left, Um, what you would

1012
00:56:07,160 --> 00:56:10,279
Speaker 1: have what what the outcome would have been. Yeah, And

1013
00:56:10,560 --> 00:56:13,319
Speaker 1: I was looking at I was able to see the

1014
00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:19,440
Speaker 1: exit wound, and um, it was basically a clean path

1015
00:56:19,760 --> 00:56:25,120
Speaker 1: path through kind of perpendicular to the animal um and

1016
00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:27,320
Speaker 1: it hit at the back of the rib cage, exited

1017
00:56:27,400 --> 00:56:29,760
Speaker 1: back at the rib cage. But that that exit wound

1018
00:56:29,880 --> 00:56:34,040
Speaker 1: was tiny. I mean, it just just it just sealed up,

1019
00:56:34,520 --> 00:56:37,600
Speaker 1: you know, as as you hear people say, but it

1020
00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:41,839
Speaker 1: just it just sealed up. There wasn't really any blood

1021
00:56:41,880 --> 00:56:45,480
Speaker 1: coming out of it. It was mid body. Uh, not

1022
00:56:45,600 --> 00:56:48,120
Speaker 1: the shot you aim for, but a completely lethal shot.

1023
00:56:48,440 --> 00:56:51,080
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm guessing he probably took an hour or

1024
00:56:51,120 --> 00:56:56,800
Speaker 1: two to die. Um, but you know, he ran about

1025
00:56:56,960 --> 00:57:00,960
Speaker 1: three quarters of a mile and laid down own and

1026
00:57:00,960 --> 00:57:03,839
Speaker 1: and died. So I mean that's like that's what you

1027
00:57:04,239 --> 00:57:08,640
Speaker 1: kind of have to expect from milk I've killed like,

1028
00:57:08,800 --> 00:57:13,120
Speaker 1: I've killed four bowls with my bow and now, and

1029
00:57:13,400 --> 00:57:18,320
Speaker 1: I mean even even the most perfect double lung passed through,

1030
00:57:18,400 --> 00:57:21,800
Speaker 1: they still run a couple hundred yards. The first bowl

1031
00:57:21,800 --> 00:57:23,640
Speaker 1: I ever killed, I shot through the heart with the

1032
00:57:23,640 --> 00:57:26,000
Speaker 1: thirty at six and eighty yards and he still ran

1033
00:57:26,720 --> 00:57:29,360
Speaker 1: a hundred yards and then took a header off a cliff.

1034
00:57:29,800 --> 00:57:33,160
Speaker 1: You know, they're just tough animals. And uh, you know,

1035
00:57:33,200 --> 00:57:34,840
Speaker 1: if I had had good blood, we would have had

1036
00:57:34,960 --> 00:57:38,280
Speaker 1: him for sure. If I had just feared off a

1037
00:57:38,280 --> 00:57:41,760
Speaker 1: little in in another direction looking that first day, I

1038
00:57:41,800 --> 00:57:44,600
Speaker 1: would have had him for sure. But yeah, so I

1039
00:57:45,040 --> 00:57:49,040
Speaker 1: ended up cutting the head off, skinning and out notching

1040
00:57:49,080 --> 00:57:53,480
Speaker 1: my tag and and walking out of there. And you know,

1041
00:57:53,720 --> 00:57:56,080
Speaker 1: it was I had already decided the day before that

1042
00:57:56,160 --> 00:57:58,280
Speaker 1: I was going to notch my tag whether or not

1043
00:57:58,320 --> 00:58:01,480
Speaker 1: I found him, be as I knew I had drawn blood,

1044
00:58:02,480 --> 00:58:06,040
Speaker 1: um likely in a lethal manner, and I was, I was.

1045
00:58:06,320 --> 00:58:08,320
Speaker 1: I had already decided that I was done elk cunting

1046
00:58:08,360 --> 00:58:11,560
Speaker 1: for that year, for this year, and I mean, and

1047
00:58:11,600 --> 00:58:13,280
Speaker 1: I had a moose tag this year, so I had

1048
00:58:13,280 --> 00:58:15,080
Speaker 1: a lot of other things to do. But you know,

1049
00:58:15,160 --> 00:58:18,480
Speaker 1: I was devastated, felt awful, and I felt like, you know,

1050
00:58:18,600 --> 00:58:21,320
Speaker 1: that was kind of a like the punishment I was

1051
00:58:21,320 --> 00:58:23,560
Speaker 1: gonna lay on myself. I felt like it was the

1052
00:58:23,600 --> 00:58:26,800
Speaker 1: ethical thing to do, but I felt like I needed to,

1053
00:58:27,400 --> 00:58:29,560
Speaker 1: I need to kind of lash myself a little bit

1054
00:58:29,640 --> 00:58:34,280
Speaker 1: because I had messed up or I hadn't done things right,

1055
00:58:34,320 --> 00:58:36,880
Speaker 1: even though I still can't quite put my finger on

1056
00:58:36,920 --> 00:58:39,920
Speaker 1: what exactly I did wrong in the moment, but I

1057
00:58:39,920 --> 00:58:42,560
Speaker 1: felt like that was that was necessary. But since I

1058
00:58:42,560 --> 00:58:45,840
Speaker 1: had already made that decision, I decided to carry the

1059
00:58:45,840 --> 00:58:48,000
Speaker 1: the antlers out of there. But you know, I don't

1060
00:58:48,000 --> 00:58:50,800
Speaker 1: look at them as as a trophy or a prize

1061
00:58:50,880 --> 00:58:54,000
Speaker 1: or something that I'll display with the same level of

1062
00:58:54,680 --> 00:58:58,200
Speaker 1: pride that I do with other with other elk. It's

1063
00:58:58,200 --> 00:59:03,240
Speaker 1: almost it's almost as a reminder. But um, yeah, so

1064
00:59:03,360 --> 00:59:06,960
Speaker 1: that was that. Yeah, I don't know. I can definitely

1065
00:59:06,960 --> 00:59:09,120
Speaker 1: relate on a lot of levels to to that last

1066
00:59:09,160 --> 00:59:13,000
Speaker 1: point you made, because I don't if if if a

1067
00:59:13,080 --> 00:59:15,520
Speaker 1: kill doesn't go well, if the killing of an animal

1068
00:59:15,520 --> 00:59:18,440
Speaker 1: doesn't go well, and it's my fault. Even if you know,

1069
00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:22,280
Speaker 1: I shot at a meal deer last year eight times. Uh.

1070
00:59:22,400 --> 00:59:24,280
Speaker 1: Come to find out, the rifle I was usually had

1071
00:59:24,280 --> 00:59:26,320
Speaker 1: some copper foiling in the barrel and just wouldn't hold

1072
00:59:26,320 --> 00:59:29,360
Speaker 1: a group. Never borrow what I did, um and end

1073
00:59:29,480 --> 00:59:31,160
Speaker 1: up having taken to a gunsmith. But at the time

1074
00:59:31,200 --> 00:59:35,000
Speaker 1: I didn't know that, um and and the deer didn't

1075
00:59:35,000 --> 00:59:36,920
Speaker 1: go more than a hundred yards. Did you not shot

1076
00:59:36,960 --> 00:59:39,720
Speaker 1: that gun? Then? Yeah, we shot that gun. Yea, we

1077
00:59:39,800 --> 00:59:41,800
Speaker 1: shot Sam Solholt and I shot that gun. And it

1078
00:59:41,920 --> 00:59:45,400
Speaker 1: was I was hitting rocks at five yards UM right

1079
00:59:45,440 --> 00:59:48,600
Speaker 1: prior to that, so and it and it it just

1080
00:59:48,720 --> 00:59:51,600
Speaker 1: changed overnight. It was about two or three days later

1081
00:59:51,640 --> 00:59:53,959
Speaker 1: and there was a bunch of snow. It went from

1082
00:59:54,360 --> 00:59:59,560
Speaker 1: sixty degrees to degrees in a blizzard. So that could

1083
00:59:59,560 --> 01:00:01,680
Speaker 1: have been it also could have been nothing to do

1084
01:00:01,720 --> 01:00:03,480
Speaker 1: with that fouling. It could have been everything to do

1085
01:00:03,560 --> 01:00:06,400
Speaker 1: with me. Um. But the next barre season, I took

1086
01:00:06,400 --> 01:00:08,440
Speaker 1: the gun out to try to to sight it in

1087
01:00:08,520 --> 01:00:10,760
Speaker 1: and it wouldn't. It wouldn't hit a piece of cardboard

1088
01:00:10,760 --> 01:00:14,320
Speaker 1: at at a hundred yards two hundred yards UM and

1089
01:00:14,400 --> 01:00:16,080
Speaker 1: so there's no way for me to know if that

1090
01:00:16,160 --> 01:00:19,240
Speaker 1: was me or a combination of both things. But they

1091
01:00:19,320 --> 01:00:21,960
Speaker 1: definitely Sam was there. We went through. It was basically

1092
01:00:22,000 --> 01:00:27,760
Speaker 1: a blizzard that that opening day last year. Um, yeah,

1093
01:00:27,880 --> 01:00:30,040
Speaker 1: so it was. It was cold and wet and and

1094
01:00:30,080 --> 01:00:32,840
Speaker 1: who knows what what it was. But I mean, I

1095
01:00:33,080 --> 01:00:35,160
Speaker 1: you know, I shot at any times, but it didn't

1096
01:00:35,200 --> 01:00:38,080
Speaker 1: go more than a hundred yards somewhere I first pulled

1097
01:00:38,080 --> 01:00:41,280
Speaker 1: the trigger on it, and and it didn't suffer for

1098
01:00:41,360 --> 01:00:44,280
Speaker 1: more than five or ten minutes after I hit it

1099
01:00:44,280 --> 01:00:46,720
Speaker 1: in the front leg the first time. Um, and then

1100
01:00:46,760 --> 01:00:48,120
Speaker 1: I was shooting out it through a bunch of thick

1101
01:00:48,160 --> 01:00:51,440
Speaker 1: brush to try to put it down. And you know,

1102
01:00:51,560 --> 01:00:54,160
Speaker 1: so it was it was a rodeo. It was not.

1103
01:00:54,640 --> 01:00:56,560
Speaker 1: It didn't make me proud in terms of what I

1104
01:00:57,360 --> 01:01:00,080
Speaker 1: my end of it. And um, you know, it was

1105
01:01:00,120 --> 01:01:01,800
Speaker 1: a nice it was a decent buck, and it was

1106
01:01:01,840 --> 01:01:06,320
Speaker 1: a tough hunt, um in a really cool area with

1107
01:01:06,400 --> 01:01:08,360
Speaker 1: some good buddies. But still when I look at that deer,

1108
01:01:08,400 --> 01:01:10,880
Speaker 1: I just kind of think about my own failure and

1109
01:01:11,120 --> 01:01:13,400
Speaker 1: you know, the ridiculousness of shooting eight times at a

1110
01:01:13,440 --> 01:01:16,920
Speaker 1: meal deer. I don't think of like how cool it was.

1111
01:01:17,040 --> 01:01:21,120
Speaker 1: Those other factors that were badass. Um, I think about

1112
01:01:21,440 --> 01:01:23,400
Speaker 1: why the hell am I shooting eight times at a deer?

1113
01:01:23,440 --> 01:01:28,880
Speaker 1: That's ridiculous? For whatever the reasons were, so so so.

1114
01:01:28,960 --> 01:01:32,160
Speaker 1: Now when someone asked you how many bullets do you

1115
01:01:32,200 --> 01:01:34,640
Speaker 1: take into the field, with your answer, I take a

1116
01:01:34,680 --> 01:01:38,919
Speaker 1: whole box. You go for twenty. I've always just taken

1117
01:01:38,920 --> 01:01:42,439
Speaker 1: a whole box. You've been a twenty guy your whole life. Always, Yeah,

1118
01:01:42,640 --> 01:01:45,360
Speaker 1: most always I'll have a box. I'll have, you know,

1119
01:01:45,920 --> 01:01:49,640
Speaker 1: a couple in my pocket of course, a full a

1120
01:01:49,680 --> 01:01:52,200
Speaker 1: full mag in the in the rifle, and then the

1121
01:01:52,200 --> 01:01:54,840
Speaker 1: rest of the box in my pack. Almost always, because

1122
01:01:54,880 --> 01:01:56,800
Speaker 1: you never know, you never know what's gonna happen. You

1123
01:01:56,880 --> 01:02:00,120
Speaker 1: might have to research your gun in on the fly. Um,

1124
01:02:00,120 --> 01:02:02,440
Speaker 1: So that's good to have. It's good to be prepared

1125
01:02:02,440 --> 01:02:04,560
Speaker 1: in that way. But you know, there again, it's like

1126
01:02:04,600 --> 01:02:09,040
Speaker 1: these are ridiculously like they're embarrassing. You feel like, man,

1127
01:02:09,120 --> 01:02:11,360
Speaker 1: I'm you know, I think about hunting all the time.

1128
01:02:11,400 --> 01:02:14,000
Speaker 1: I've I've been shooting rifles since I was twelve. What

1129
01:02:14,160 --> 01:02:17,640
Speaker 1: in the world is going on? Um, that's not fair

1130
01:02:17,680 --> 01:02:20,360
Speaker 1: to that deer that I couldn't get myself together to

1131
01:02:20,440 --> 01:02:23,040
Speaker 1: make to make that happen. And then in that case,

1132
01:02:23,120 --> 01:02:25,440
Speaker 1: I was pulled the trigger the first time and was

1133
01:02:25,480 --> 01:02:27,520
Speaker 1: looking at that deer waiting for him to drop, and

1134
01:02:28,200 --> 01:02:30,200
Speaker 1: the guys I was with where we don't see where

1135
01:02:30,240 --> 01:02:32,120
Speaker 1: you hit, and I pull the trigar again, we don't

1136
01:02:32,120 --> 01:02:34,600
Speaker 1: see where you hit. I pull the sugar again. It

1137
01:02:34,640 --> 01:02:40,320
Speaker 1: hit him in the leg. So it was confusing, frustrating,

1138
01:02:40,680 --> 01:02:43,360
Speaker 1: piss me off moment. But I said, you know, I

1139
01:02:43,360 --> 01:02:45,480
Speaker 1: say all that to say, like, I know what Sam's

1140
01:02:45,480 --> 01:02:47,000
Speaker 1: feeling in terms of when you look at that deer,

1141
01:02:47,040 --> 01:02:49,440
Speaker 1: you're not thinking. Man, I can't wait to tell us,

1142
01:02:49,440 --> 01:02:53,120
Speaker 1: Tellbdy the story of this one. It's gonna be great. Um.

1143
01:02:53,160 --> 01:02:56,320
Speaker 1: There's some like modicum of shame there that you gotta

1144
01:02:56,360 --> 01:02:59,360
Speaker 1: deal with when you're looking at it. So that's certainly

1145
01:02:59,400 --> 01:03:04,080
Speaker 1: part of it, certainly part of it. But um, we

1146
01:03:04,120 --> 01:03:06,880
Speaker 1: should talk about this notching tags when you when when

1147
01:03:06,960 --> 01:03:11,080
Speaker 1: when you don't recover an animal, or even when you do.

1148
01:03:11,160 --> 01:03:14,240
Speaker 1: In your case, Sam, Um, I think you're notching of

1149
01:03:14,280 --> 01:03:18,600
Speaker 1: a tag is probably so well. I guess the point

1150
01:03:18,680 --> 01:03:21,040
Speaker 1: is you had planned to to not your tag before

1151
01:03:21,120 --> 01:03:24,920
Speaker 1: you found the bull, right, Yeah. Yeah, I had told

1152
01:03:24,920 --> 01:03:26,960
Speaker 1: myself when I walked out of the aircume, hell or

1153
01:03:27,000 --> 01:03:29,439
Speaker 1: high water, I wasn't gonna have a valid ELK tag.

1154
01:03:30,640 --> 01:03:33,800
Speaker 1: And we know through there's a there's a good article

1155
01:03:33,840 --> 01:03:37,040
Speaker 1: that we've all read and this is it's been sometimes

1156
01:03:37,040 --> 01:03:38,880
Speaker 1: since this was published on the mediator dot com, but

1157
01:03:38,920 --> 01:03:42,360
Speaker 1: a good article buy our good friend and writer Pat

1158
01:03:42,440 --> 01:03:46,680
Speaker 1: Durkin about wounding loss and depending on what state you're in,

1159
01:03:47,520 --> 01:03:51,800
Speaker 1: UM game agencies, when they put together their population data

1160
01:03:51,840 --> 01:03:54,439
Speaker 1: and they put together a tag allotment in those things

1161
01:03:54,480 --> 01:03:58,120
Speaker 1: for the year and for the units they're they're assuming

1162
01:03:58,200 --> 01:04:01,640
Speaker 1: some wounding loss, uh, building that into their set data set.

1163
01:04:02,320 --> 01:04:05,200
Speaker 1: And so from a practical standpoint, you can say, well,

1164
01:04:05,440 --> 01:04:09,160
Speaker 1: I wounded this animal. That's part of it, and that

1165
01:04:09,600 --> 01:04:13,240
Speaker 1: is taken into account by the folks that that afforded

1166
01:04:13,280 --> 01:04:15,560
Speaker 1: me this tag or allotted me this tag out of

1167
01:04:15,560 --> 01:04:19,040
Speaker 1: the larger group of tags that were UM that were sold.

1168
01:04:19,440 --> 01:04:22,920
Speaker 1: And so I'm gonna keep hunting because that's what essentially,

1169
01:04:22,960 --> 01:04:25,160
Speaker 1: that's what is in the plan for them and maybe

1170
01:04:25,200 --> 01:04:27,560
Speaker 1: should be in the plan for me. But I imagine

1171
01:04:27,600 --> 01:04:30,240
Speaker 1: what people are notching tags, are notching tags for more

1172
01:04:30,240 --> 01:04:34,959
Speaker 1: personal reasons than practical I feel like that's true, Johnny, Yeah,

1173
01:04:35,120 --> 01:04:38,440
Speaker 1: for sure, have you arned you've notched? Have you notched

1174
01:04:38,480 --> 01:04:43,560
Speaker 1: tags before? Thanks you didn't recover? I never have, never have,

1175
01:04:44,040 --> 01:04:46,400
Speaker 1: But I don't know if i've ever been faced Well,

1176
01:04:46,400 --> 01:04:48,120
Speaker 1: I mean I was telling you before we started it

1177
01:04:48,200 --> 01:04:50,360
Speaker 1: two years ago. I guess I was faced with it

1178
01:04:50,600 --> 01:04:55,280
Speaker 1: with that scenario, and I chose not to notch my tag.

1179
01:04:55,640 --> 01:05:00,960
Speaker 1: Um and even after I saw if if, if I can,

1180
01:05:01,160 --> 01:05:04,640
Speaker 1: I can really quickly tell my story of archery hunting

1181
01:05:05,400 --> 01:05:09,440
Speaker 1: um and uh, and I can tell you sort of

1182
01:05:09,440 --> 01:05:14,360
Speaker 1: my decisions that that I made after it. But um,

1183
01:05:14,480 --> 01:05:17,080
Speaker 1: it was like the first or second night. Uh, my

1184
01:05:17,160 --> 01:05:19,080
Speaker 1: hunting partner was actually packing the bowl out, so I

1185
01:05:19,120 --> 01:05:22,840
Speaker 1: was out by myself and ended up getting a great

1186
01:05:22,880 --> 01:05:26,600
Speaker 1: shot like exactly forty yards on the mark on a

1187
01:05:27,040 --> 01:05:29,840
Speaker 1: like a four by five. I had ranged the log

1188
01:05:30,160 --> 01:05:32,360
Speaker 1: that he was going to step over ahead of time.

1189
01:05:32,720 --> 01:05:35,240
Speaker 1: I told myself, if he goes to that log and

1190
01:05:35,600 --> 01:05:38,840
Speaker 1: you know, stops near, I'm like, it's money. It's forty yards.

1191
01:05:39,400 --> 01:05:42,320
Speaker 1: And I had been shooting a lot that summer, felt

1192
01:05:42,360 --> 01:05:46,040
Speaker 1: really good, and uh took the shot and hit him

1193
01:05:46,040 --> 01:05:48,320
Speaker 1: exactly where I wanted to hit him. If I had

1194
01:05:48,320 --> 01:05:50,200
Speaker 1: to do it all over again, I wouldn't change a

1195
01:05:50,320 --> 01:05:54,040
Speaker 1: single thing. Um, just pretty much like saw the red

1196
01:05:54,080 --> 01:05:57,160
Speaker 1: spot and I'm thinking to myself, smoked him. Well, he

1197
01:05:57,560 --> 01:06:00,720
Speaker 1: wheels and he turns and he's running off, and I'm like, man,

1198
01:06:00,760 --> 01:06:03,520
Speaker 1: I don't really have that grade of arrow penetration. Like

1199
01:06:03,560 --> 01:06:07,480
Speaker 1: I can see a solid foot maybe more, um, maybe

1200
01:06:07,480 --> 01:06:09,560
Speaker 1: half my arrow. I should have pretty long arrow. It's

1201
01:06:09,560 --> 01:06:12,640
Speaker 1: almost thirty inches, so if half my arrow is in him,

1202
01:06:12,680 --> 01:06:17,560
Speaker 1: that was fifteen inches. And he runs off, and I'm thinking, man, like,

1203
01:06:17,960 --> 01:06:21,560
Speaker 1: that was not great penetration, and so I gave it.

1204
01:06:21,600 --> 01:06:24,360
Speaker 1: I was gonna give a little bit longer, and I

1205
01:06:24,400 --> 01:06:26,320
Speaker 1: was gonna give like a couple hours, and then it

1206
01:06:26,360 --> 01:06:30,040
Speaker 1: started to rain, and so I think, I like ninety minutes.

1207
01:06:30,080 --> 01:06:32,120
Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, I'm gonna at least go to where

1208
01:06:32,320 --> 01:06:34,480
Speaker 1: I last saw him, see what kind of blood I

1209
01:06:34,520 --> 01:06:37,960
Speaker 1: can find. Um, just kind of assess the situation. So

1210
01:06:38,000 --> 01:06:41,360
Speaker 1: I go over. I find my arrow. It's got nice pink,

1211
01:06:41,400 --> 01:06:44,440
Speaker 1: frothy blood on it, a fair amount of blood on

1212
01:06:44,440 --> 01:06:46,840
Speaker 1: the ground. I pick it up and I just kind

1213
01:06:46,840 --> 01:06:49,760
Speaker 1: of peek over a little rise and I see the

1214
01:06:49,800 --> 01:06:52,760
Speaker 1: bowl down below me. And he takes off and I

1215
01:06:52,800 --> 01:06:56,040
Speaker 1: can hear him sort of breathing through that hole in

1216
01:06:56,080 --> 01:07:00,280
Speaker 1: his side where you can sort of hear air moving

1217
01:07:00,360 --> 01:07:02,640
Speaker 1: through an animal that's it's not his mouth, you know,

1218
01:07:03,480 --> 01:07:07,080
Speaker 1: And uh, he runs off, and I'm like, well, backing

1219
01:07:07,080 --> 01:07:09,200
Speaker 1: out for sure, now, you know. So I back out.

1220
01:07:09,600 --> 01:07:13,480
Speaker 1: The rain kind of continues and it's getting dark, and

1221
01:07:13,520 --> 01:07:15,200
Speaker 1: at that point I'm like, well, I'm just gonna have

1222
01:07:15,240 --> 01:07:17,880
Speaker 1: to wait till the morning. Well get up in the

1223
01:07:17,920 --> 01:07:21,640
Speaker 1: morning and it was I don't know, somewhere six eight

1224
01:07:21,840 --> 01:07:25,520
Speaker 1: inches of snow or so, and uh so I literally

1225
01:07:25,560 --> 01:07:28,320
Speaker 1: had no there was no blood trail. Um My hunting

1226
01:07:28,360 --> 01:07:31,480
Speaker 1: partner showed back up that uh I don't know, one

1227
01:07:31,560 --> 01:07:34,120
Speaker 1: too late in the morning. It was nine o'clock or so,

1228
01:07:34,920 --> 01:07:38,160
Speaker 1: and we with the snow. It actually made gritting easy

1229
01:07:38,600 --> 01:07:41,720
Speaker 1: because you know, you just walk straight line and just

1230
01:07:41,800 --> 01:07:43,400
Speaker 1: kind of, you know, when you come back, you just

1231
01:07:43,480 --> 01:07:46,080
Speaker 1: like you can see your old tracks ten yards away

1232
01:07:46,160 --> 01:07:48,560
Speaker 1: or whatever, and just you know, make another uh you

1233
01:07:48,600 --> 01:07:52,200
Speaker 1: know pass. And we basically did that over I don't

1234
01:07:52,240 --> 01:07:56,360
Speaker 1: know until dark that night, and it we probably covered

1235
01:07:57,520 --> 01:08:00,920
Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe a square mile you and just

1236
01:08:00,920 --> 01:08:03,200
Speaker 1: just tromped all over everything. But we're at that point

1237
01:08:03,280 --> 01:08:06,240
Speaker 1: we were just looking for one antler that was gonna

1238
01:08:06,240 --> 01:08:08,120
Speaker 1: be sticking up out of the snow and probably just

1239
01:08:08,400 --> 01:08:10,520
Speaker 1: a bump in the snow that would you know, show

1240
01:08:10,600 --> 01:08:15,160
Speaker 1: us the body and uh, it did not find it. Best.

1241
01:08:15,200 --> 01:08:17,360
Speaker 1: I can tell you that what I think happened is

1242
01:08:17,479 --> 01:08:21,560
Speaker 1: I probably got one long and with that kind of penetration,

1243
01:08:21,800 --> 01:08:24,400
Speaker 1: I don't know, but you never know. I feel like

1244
01:08:24,400 --> 01:08:26,840
Speaker 1: if I would have gotten to like the way we

1245
01:08:26,880 --> 01:08:31,160
Speaker 1: gritted that area, I would have found him. Um, But

1246
01:08:31,240 --> 01:08:33,360
Speaker 1: they can go long ways on on a long They

1247
01:08:33,360 --> 01:08:35,360
Speaker 1: can go long ways and live on one long. They

1248
01:08:35,360 --> 01:08:36,960
Speaker 1: can go a long ways and die on one long.

1249
01:08:37,080 --> 01:08:39,479
Speaker 1: So I can't tell you what happened. Did not notch

1250
01:08:39,520 --> 01:08:43,840
Speaker 1: my tag. UM continue to hunt, And then like two

1251
01:08:43,920 --> 01:08:46,760
Speaker 1: or three days later at a bowl we called a

1252
01:08:46,800 --> 01:08:49,519
Speaker 1: bowl in and he came by me top pin range

1253
01:08:49,880 --> 01:08:53,360
Speaker 1: and he was walking, and I thought I was good

1254
01:08:53,439 --> 01:08:56,439
Speaker 1: enough to just follow him as he walked and let

1255
01:08:56,439 --> 01:09:00,960
Speaker 1: my arrow loose, And that turned out to be a mistake. Um,

1256
01:09:01,200 --> 01:09:03,240
Speaker 1: from here on out, I'll always try to stop an

1257
01:09:03,280 --> 01:09:07,120
Speaker 1: animal with a cal call or grunt or something. And

1258
01:09:07,120 --> 01:09:09,519
Speaker 1: then settled my pin and shoot because what I thought

1259
01:09:09,560 --> 01:09:11,640
Speaker 1: was gonna tuck in right behind his shoulder ended up

1260
01:09:11,720 --> 01:09:16,479
Speaker 1: hitting in that like I didn't don't even think I

1261
01:09:16,520 --> 01:09:19,200
Speaker 1: got liver, so I was even behind the liver. The

1262
01:09:19,320 --> 01:09:24,160
Speaker 1: arrow basically showed hair and fat, zero blood and he

1263
01:09:24,240 --> 01:09:27,160
Speaker 1: was in a giant metal like a meadow that's literally

1264
01:09:27,160 --> 01:09:31,719
Speaker 1: a mile long and probably I don't know, yards across,

1265
01:09:32,160 --> 01:09:35,360
Speaker 1: and so we were able to watch that bowl, follow

1266
01:09:35,400 --> 01:09:38,120
Speaker 1: his trail see that there was little to no blood.

1267
01:09:38,200 --> 01:09:40,639
Speaker 1: He actually hooked back up with three bowls that he'd

1268
01:09:40,680 --> 01:09:43,120
Speaker 1: been feeding with earlier before we called him over to

1269
01:09:43,240 --> 01:09:47,960
Speaker 1: us and went back to feeding and then slowly worked

1270
01:09:47,960 --> 01:09:50,720
Speaker 1: their way into the timber. So the next morning we

1271
01:09:50,880 --> 01:09:54,920
Speaker 1: followed that bowl for there was just we had the

1272
01:09:54,920 --> 01:09:58,360
Speaker 1: fresh snow now and I had like pin drops every

1273
01:09:58,600 --> 01:10:02,280
Speaker 1: I don't know, ten thirty ft, you know, like a

1274
01:10:02,439 --> 01:10:05,559
Speaker 1: pin drop, and we could stay on his track and

1275
01:10:05,560 --> 01:10:08,519
Speaker 1: find that pin drop, and we went over two ridges

1276
01:10:09,360 --> 01:10:13,280
Speaker 1: and eventually his tracks ran into like a whole herd

1277
01:10:13,320 --> 01:10:17,600
Speaker 1: of elk tracks and there was no more you know,

1278
01:10:17,720 --> 01:10:21,840
Speaker 1: following him. So at that point we did quit hunting,

1279
01:10:22,240 --> 01:10:23,719
Speaker 1: but we were also at the end of the trip.

1280
01:10:24,520 --> 01:10:27,920
Speaker 1: Uh would I have punched my tag? I guess I

1281
01:10:27,960 --> 01:10:30,320
Speaker 1: didn't punch my tag because I hunted in a rifle

1282
01:10:30,400 --> 01:10:35,040
Speaker 1: season and killed a bull. Um. So that's how that

1283
01:10:35,080 --> 01:10:37,320
Speaker 1: went for me. Both of those times. I feel like

1284
01:10:37,400 --> 01:10:41,360
Speaker 1: again one long because we didn't find him. I'm guessing

1285
01:10:41,400 --> 01:10:45,960
Speaker 1: the bull lived that shot that went right through him,

1286
01:10:46,000 --> 01:10:48,680
Speaker 1: with what the arrows showed and the sign showed and

1287
01:10:48,720 --> 01:10:52,560
Speaker 1: the way he acted, like, my guess is that it

1288
01:10:52,640 --> 01:10:58,520
Speaker 1: went through a space somewhere between his guts and the diaphragm. Um,

1289
01:10:58,600 --> 01:11:00,559
Speaker 1: and and again didn't kill him. Do I know that

1290
01:11:00,600 --> 01:11:02,719
Speaker 1: for sure? No, there could have been some festering wound

1291
01:11:03,000 --> 01:11:09,160
Speaker 1: and he could have you know, perished months later. But again,

1292
01:11:09,200 --> 01:11:12,200
Speaker 1: like Sam said, man, they are tough. They take uh

1293
01:11:12,400 --> 01:11:17,360
Speaker 1: antler times to their flanks all the time, and um

1294
01:11:17,479 --> 01:11:19,360
Speaker 1: probably don't live through all of them, live through some

1295
01:11:19,439 --> 01:11:22,679
Speaker 1: of them. But yes, I think that's like the only

1296
01:11:22,760 --> 01:11:25,320
Speaker 1: time I've been faced with whether or not I'm gonna

1297
01:11:25,360 --> 01:11:27,599
Speaker 1: like punch a tag and know both those I chose

1298
01:11:27,640 --> 01:11:30,760
Speaker 1: not to, and I actually filled my tag later with

1299
01:11:30,880 --> 01:11:34,640
Speaker 1: a with a bull tag. Um, I think if I

1300
01:11:34,680 --> 01:11:38,240
Speaker 1: was in sam situation and I found one of those bulls,

1301
01:11:38,280 --> 01:11:40,120
Speaker 1: even if it was later, if I had something to

1302
01:11:40,200 --> 01:11:43,760
Speaker 1: go on, you know, I was able to like had

1303
01:11:43,760 --> 01:11:45,519
Speaker 1: a zone that I could search and I had found

1304
01:11:45,560 --> 01:11:48,200
Speaker 1: him even had I even though it was wasted. If

1305
01:11:48,200 --> 01:11:51,000
Speaker 1: I was packing antlers out of the mountains, a notch

1306
01:11:51,000 --> 01:11:54,559
Speaker 1: attack for sure. But if I'm putting like mega effort

1307
01:11:54,600 --> 01:11:58,280
Speaker 1: into it, and signs are showing that like it's fifty

1308
01:11:58,320 --> 01:12:01,720
Speaker 1: fifty whether that animals living or not. I'm not necessarily

1309
01:12:01,720 --> 01:12:04,719
Speaker 1: going to punch the tag. It's it's it's the sign

1310
01:12:04,880 --> 01:12:07,640
Speaker 1: and everything's gonna have to tell me and show me

1311
01:12:07,640 --> 01:12:10,040
Speaker 1: where like inside of me, I'm like, you know what,

1312
01:12:10,280 --> 01:12:16,680
Speaker 1: more than likely that animals dead? Yeah, um yeah, And

1313
01:12:16,720 --> 01:12:19,080
Speaker 1: I think for many people that travel out west Ard, well,

1314
01:12:19,160 --> 01:12:22,800
Speaker 1: really travel anywhere. Many outfitters I've hunted with half a

1315
01:12:22,800 --> 01:12:26,200
Speaker 1: dozen outfitters I can think of that that would have

1316
01:12:26,320 --> 01:12:28,960
Speaker 1: had this role. If you draw blood, that's your tag.

1317
01:12:29,920 --> 01:12:34,280
Speaker 1: Many outfitters will enact that on one private property. Um.

1318
01:12:34,320 --> 01:12:36,559
Speaker 1: And I've always really agreed with that because I've been

1319
01:12:36,560 --> 01:12:40,160
Speaker 1: a part of some camps where um, there's a lot

1320
01:12:40,200 --> 01:12:42,320
Speaker 1: of wounded animals in a very short amount of time

1321
01:12:42,560 --> 01:12:45,559
Speaker 1: and a lot of you know, you really want a

1322
01:12:45,680 --> 01:12:48,479
Speaker 1: client in that case to to think really long and

1323
01:12:48,520 --> 01:12:51,200
Speaker 1: hard where they want to pull that trigger. Um. Because

1324
01:12:51,240 --> 01:12:53,360
Speaker 1: one of the things I guess it in returning maybe

1325
01:12:53,400 --> 01:12:55,880
Speaker 1: a little bit to like the the in the moment

1326
01:12:56,400 --> 01:13:00,880
Speaker 1: decision making one of the things that happens on well

1327
01:13:00,880 --> 01:13:03,040
Speaker 1: what I guess we me and Clay Nuken we're calling

1328
01:13:03,040 --> 01:13:05,920
Speaker 1: transient hunts where you have like seven days to hunt,

1329
01:13:06,040 --> 01:13:10,160
Speaker 1: right you know, Samsun was and in nearly his backyard,

1330
01:13:10,479 --> 01:13:13,320
Speaker 1: you know, in his in his hometown. He that tag

1331
01:13:13,360 --> 01:13:15,840
Speaker 1: goes until the end of the year, um if you

1332
01:13:15,880 --> 01:13:19,360
Speaker 1: want to count shoulder seasons even longer. And so he

1333
01:13:19,400 --> 01:13:21,479
Speaker 1: doesn't have like a time restriction. But when a lot

1334
01:13:21,520 --> 01:13:23,240
Speaker 1: of people that are listening to this, when you're talking

1335
01:13:23,280 --> 01:13:25,559
Speaker 1: about and maybe you can talk about this to Yanni

1336
01:13:25,640 --> 01:13:30,599
Speaker 1: being a guide, you have six days to hunt and

1337
01:13:30,640 --> 01:13:33,360
Speaker 1: you're on your last day or you you know, you

1338
01:13:33,400 --> 01:13:36,639
Speaker 1: have three days to hunt or ten days hunt, doesn't matter.

1339
01:13:36,680 --> 01:13:39,240
Speaker 1: You have a time limit and that's the time you

1340
01:13:39,280 --> 01:13:42,800
Speaker 1: have to hunt that tag. I think a lot of

1341
01:13:42,840 --> 01:13:45,519
Speaker 1: times I've seen people at the very end of these

1342
01:13:45,920 --> 01:13:49,040
Speaker 1: hunts where you're traveling into a spot, You're willing to

1343
01:13:49,080 --> 01:13:51,599
Speaker 1: take shots you wouldn't otherwise, You're willing to do things

1344
01:13:51,600 --> 01:13:54,719
Speaker 1: you wouldn't otherwise, and a lot of times that turns

1345
01:13:55,120 --> 01:13:58,479
Speaker 1: that turns bad um for the animal and for for

1346
01:13:58,520 --> 01:14:00,280
Speaker 1: the hunter. So I don't know, there's a lot of

1347
01:14:00,280 --> 01:14:04,360
Speaker 1: situations that kind of when we we when it comes

1348
01:14:04,400 --> 01:14:07,680
Speaker 1: down to pulling the trigger, that expand the scenarios on

1349
01:14:07,760 --> 01:14:10,200
Speaker 1: which you would would do it, which you would pull

1350
01:14:10,200 --> 01:14:12,920
Speaker 1: the trigger, whether it's yeah, I'd like to mention that

1351
01:14:13,000 --> 01:14:17,839
Speaker 1: it takes a very mature hunter two have that control

1352
01:14:17,960 --> 01:14:21,639
Speaker 1: in that situation time and time again. And it only

1353
01:14:22,120 --> 01:14:24,640
Speaker 1: you only become that way. I think through lots and

1354
01:14:24,720 --> 01:14:29,960
Speaker 1: lots of experience, um, and people that have just you know,

1355
01:14:30,120 --> 01:14:33,760
Speaker 1: shot at a lot of things and then wounded a

1356
01:14:33,840 --> 01:14:35,960
Speaker 1: lot of things and killed a lot of things. And

1357
01:14:36,080 --> 01:14:38,559
Speaker 1: I personally and certainly not there even all that time

1358
01:14:38,600 --> 01:14:40,760
Speaker 1: I had as a guide. I got a lot of

1359
01:14:40,800 --> 01:14:43,120
Speaker 1: experience from it, but what I didn't get from it

1360
01:14:43,200 --> 01:14:46,960
Speaker 1: was having to control my own you know, emotions in

1361
01:14:47,000 --> 01:14:49,280
Speaker 1: the moment of truth, you know. And so that's something.

1362
01:14:50,160 --> 01:14:52,639
Speaker 1: But now, you know, kind of learning to do more

1363
01:14:52,720 --> 01:14:55,000
Speaker 1: of because I'm getting to hunt a little bit more myself,

1364
01:14:55,040 --> 01:14:59,240
Speaker 1: and I always uh, you know, guiding other people. UM.

1365
01:14:59,280 --> 01:15:02,360
Speaker 1: But there's like, I know very few hunters that like

1366
01:15:02,439 --> 01:15:05,800
Speaker 1: are so good where they're like, yeah, I don't shoot

1367
01:15:05,960 --> 01:15:08,760
Speaker 1: forty yards at an elk. And the reason they say

1368
01:15:08,760 --> 01:15:11,639
Speaker 1: that is because they've had all those experiences that we're

1369
01:15:11,640 --> 01:15:14,720
Speaker 1: talking about right now. They have like a limit to

1370
01:15:14,840 --> 01:15:17,720
Speaker 1: where it's just like in their mind it's gonna be

1371
01:15:18,479 --> 01:15:21,719
Speaker 1: and it's probably not gonna be percent nothing is in hunting,

1372
01:15:21,840 --> 01:15:25,960
Speaker 1: but like in their mind, that's like and they every

1373
01:15:26,000 --> 01:15:28,960
Speaker 1: single moment, you know, they might even pass something at

1374
01:15:29,000 --> 01:15:32,000
Speaker 1: fifteen yards because maybe it didn't stop moving or you

1375
01:15:32,000 --> 01:15:36,320
Speaker 1: know whatever. Um maybe because like that second bowl I shot,

1376
01:15:36,400 --> 01:15:38,879
Speaker 1: even though you grunt at him or cow call at him,

1377
01:15:38,920 --> 01:15:40,719
Speaker 1: maybe he doesn't stop me. He just kind of keeps

1378
01:15:40,720 --> 01:15:43,760
Speaker 1: walking as he's looking at you. And again you have

1379
01:15:43,840 --> 01:15:47,760
Speaker 1: to be like, I'm not going to shoot until it's right.

1380
01:15:47,920 --> 01:15:52,040
Speaker 1: And uh, it just takes a lot, a lot of

1381
01:15:52,120 --> 01:15:55,600
Speaker 1: experience to be in that moment and not want it

1382
01:15:55,720 --> 01:15:59,559
Speaker 1: so bad that you let your emotions take over. That's

1383
01:15:59,560 --> 01:16:02,320
Speaker 1: such a good point, like wanting it's so bad, Like

1384
01:16:02,680 --> 01:16:05,040
Speaker 1: no matter the scenario, no matter whether you've spent ten

1385
01:16:05,040 --> 01:16:07,080
Speaker 1: tho dollars on an elk hunt and this is your

1386
01:16:07,120 --> 01:16:09,200
Speaker 1: ten thousand dollars and all the time and all the

1387
01:16:09,200 --> 01:16:11,759
Speaker 1: practice and all the gear you bought and all the pressure.

1388
01:16:12,160 --> 01:16:14,200
Speaker 1: That's one version, but there's so many other versions of

1389
01:16:14,240 --> 01:16:17,320
Speaker 1: where those emotions come into play. Well, And we tell

1390
01:16:17,360 --> 01:16:19,479
Speaker 1: people all the time that you've really got to want

1391
01:16:19,520 --> 01:16:22,200
Speaker 1: it really bad. I mean that that's the that's the

1392
01:16:22,400 --> 01:16:25,760
Speaker 1: that's the way I became successful Elk Hunter, Right, I

1393
01:16:26,200 --> 01:16:29,599
Speaker 1: went through a lot of failure trying to figure it out,

1394
01:16:29,680 --> 01:16:32,240
Speaker 1: trying to learn, just going all the time by myself.

1395
01:16:32,280 --> 01:16:36,200
Speaker 1: And it's that it's that dogged desire to succeed that

1396
01:16:36,320 --> 01:16:38,880
Speaker 1: makes you good. But you need to learn to rain

1397
01:16:39,000 --> 01:16:42,400
Speaker 1: that in, like at the moment of truth White right,

1398
01:16:42,400 --> 01:16:47,040
Speaker 1: when it's finally coming together, Like the penultimate moment is

1399
01:16:47,080 --> 01:16:51,120
Speaker 1: when you can't want it too bad, and and and

1400
01:16:51,160 --> 01:16:53,479
Speaker 1: but you also at the same time you have to

1401
01:16:53,600 --> 01:17:00,640
Speaker 1: capitalize on very brief windows of opportunity and and like

1402
01:17:00,760 --> 01:17:03,639
Speaker 1: this that this pole, this this year, it's a great

1403
01:17:03,680 --> 01:17:07,240
Speaker 1: example of that. Like, you know, I did have a good,

1404
01:17:07,280 --> 01:17:11,680
Speaker 1: clean shot, but it was it was a quickly disappearing opportunity.

1405
01:17:11,760 --> 01:17:14,519
Speaker 1: And so you gotta want it bad, but you can't

1406
01:17:14,560 --> 01:17:16,840
Speaker 1: want it to want it too bad. So it's it's

1407
01:17:16,880 --> 01:17:20,880
Speaker 1: really difficult to parts where that where that line lies, Sam,

1408
01:17:20,920 --> 01:17:26,400
Speaker 1: would Sam, would you take that shot again? Everything everything

1409
01:17:26,439 --> 01:17:31,679
Speaker 1: being the same, would you would you shoot again? Yeah? Yeah,

1410
01:17:31,760 --> 01:17:34,160
Speaker 1: that's a that's a shot that I I would take.

1411
01:17:34,240 --> 01:17:36,200
Speaker 1: And I had a couple and I wrote a long

1412
01:17:36,920 --> 01:17:41,240
Speaker 1: post about this on you know, Instagram, Facebook, and I had.

1413
01:17:41,880 --> 01:17:44,360
Speaker 1: You know, most people kind of commiserate, but a couple,

1414
01:17:44,800 --> 01:17:48,880
Speaker 1: a couple holier than now, folks who I won't mention

1415
01:17:48,960 --> 01:17:52,519
Speaker 1: by name, talking about oh before I was a mature hunter,

1416
01:17:53,600 --> 01:17:56,479
Speaker 1: and uh, you know I I never do that kind

1417
01:17:56,479 --> 01:18:00,760
Speaker 1: of thing again. And like you, you didn't, you didn't

1418
01:18:00,760 --> 01:18:04,920
Speaker 1: read my my story. Like I, I I do not feel

1419
01:18:04,960 --> 01:18:07,960
Speaker 1: like I made I made a bad judgment call. I

1420
01:18:07,960 --> 01:18:10,400
Speaker 1: don't think I rushed the shot. I don't think it

1421
01:18:10,520 --> 01:18:15,400
Speaker 1: was a bad shot to take. Um. You know, I

1422
01:18:16,000 --> 01:18:19,200
Speaker 1: probably would have put my no. And that he's on

1423
01:18:19,400 --> 01:18:21,439
Speaker 1: he was on a hair trigger. You know. I shoulder

1424
01:18:21,439 --> 01:18:24,840
Speaker 1: bladed a bowl one time, like totally non lethally. I

1425
01:18:24,880 --> 01:18:31,040
Speaker 1: got like three inches of penetration. And I looked for

1426
01:18:31,080 --> 01:18:34,280
Speaker 1: a couple of days and saw that bowl later and

1427
01:18:34,320 --> 01:18:39,439
Speaker 1: he knocked the arrow out and was pushing cows again.

1428
01:18:39,520 --> 01:18:41,559
Speaker 1: So I felt like he had he had survived. So

1429
01:18:41,600 --> 01:18:44,960
Speaker 1: since then I tried to move backwards from that shoulder,

1430
01:18:45,000 --> 01:18:47,120
Speaker 1: to get away from that shoulder. But I mean in

1431
01:18:47,760 --> 01:18:51,080
Speaker 1: a situation where they're on a hair trigger at close range,

1432
01:18:51,120 --> 01:18:54,200
Speaker 1: I might move a little bit closer to the to

1433
01:18:54,320 --> 01:18:56,960
Speaker 1: the shoulder. I guess. I mean, there there's some things

1434
01:18:57,040 --> 01:18:59,920
Speaker 1: to derive from this. But but no, I don't. I

1435
01:19:00,360 --> 01:19:04,120
Speaker 1: would probably take that shot again, and and others like it. Yeah,

1436
01:19:04,320 --> 01:19:06,439
Speaker 1: and I you have to think of the situation. Man.

1437
01:19:06,479 --> 01:19:08,280
Speaker 1: Then this goes back to that We've had plenty of

1438
01:19:08,320 --> 01:19:11,760
Speaker 1: conversation on this show about ethics and um and no

1439
01:19:11,800 --> 01:19:15,599
Speaker 1: matter how much you think about what ethics are and

1440
01:19:15,600 --> 01:19:18,479
Speaker 1: and really how you would put them into practice, they're

1441
01:19:18,520 --> 01:19:20,600
Speaker 1: still the moment of truth. And once you what you

1442
01:19:20,920 --> 01:19:23,400
Speaker 1: just well described saying as that pen ultimate moment where

1443
01:19:23,439 --> 01:19:27,160
Speaker 1: you are in control of of what happens, and when

1444
01:19:27,200 --> 01:19:29,240
Speaker 1: when you release that air, that ultimate moment, you're not

1445
01:19:29,280 --> 01:19:33,280
Speaker 1: really in control of much of it. And so there's uh,

1446
01:19:33,360 --> 01:19:37,559
Speaker 1: this idea that I've been tracking with that I think

1447
01:19:37,600 --> 01:19:40,040
Speaker 1: this this really this conversation really leads to, which is

1448
01:19:40,520 --> 01:19:44,120
Speaker 1: rather than maybe not in replacing fair chase, but in

1449
01:19:44,120 --> 01:19:46,040
Speaker 1: in adding to it or making it a little bit

1450
01:19:46,080 --> 01:19:49,439
Speaker 1: more substantial in this pen ultimate moment, is this idea

1451
01:19:49,439 --> 01:19:52,960
Speaker 1: of fair kill and fair kill is essentially it's a

1452
01:19:53,040 --> 01:19:55,519
Speaker 1: It's a million things. It's a million things. It's certainly

1453
01:19:55,520 --> 01:19:58,400
Speaker 1: the practice the preparation being able to understand that you're

1454
01:19:58,520 --> 01:20:01,559
Speaker 1: the lethality of you perly with whatever weapon you're holding.

1455
01:20:02,000 --> 01:20:05,120
Speaker 1: But it's also being able to understand the impact of

1456
01:20:05,160 --> 01:20:08,599
Speaker 1: those decisions and and try to train yourself mentally in

1457
01:20:08,640 --> 01:20:14,160
Speaker 1: some instances physically too, you know, to make that that decision,

1458
01:20:14,200 --> 01:20:18,280
Speaker 1: that penultimate decision, and all fairness um to the animal

1459
01:20:18,320 --> 01:20:21,280
Speaker 1: and not to yourself, not to not to give in too.

1460
01:20:21,360 --> 01:20:25,000
Speaker 1: As as you guys both described that emotion of wanting

1461
01:20:25,040 --> 01:20:26,920
Speaker 1: to get it done, needing to get it done. I

1462
01:20:26,960 --> 01:20:28,840
Speaker 1: spend all this money and all this time and all

1463
01:20:28,880 --> 01:20:32,280
Speaker 1: this emotion and sacrifice for this, and now I'm going

1464
01:20:32,360 --> 01:20:36,200
Speaker 1: to I'm going to expand my ethical boundaries because I

1465
01:20:36,240 --> 01:20:40,559
Speaker 1: want it so damn bad. Um. That's like the most

1466
01:20:40,680 --> 01:20:43,599
Speaker 1: natural selfish reaction in that moment. And I think this

1467
01:20:43,680 --> 01:20:45,679
Speaker 1: idea of being fair to the animal in the moment

1468
01:20:45,680 --> 01:20:48,600
Speaker 1: of kill is the idea that you have to somehow

1469
01:20:49,080 --> 01:20:51,519
Speaker 1: as hard as it is, and as to your point

1470
01:20:51,600 --> 01:20:53,639
Speaker 1: saying to like to judge someone else for not doing

1471
01:20:53,680 --> 01:20:56,599
Speaker 1: it as holier than now. But this idea of personally

1472
01:20:56,640 --> 01:20:59,960
Speaker 1: trying to hold yourself to some sort of fairness at

1473
01:21:00,040 --> 01:21:03,840
Speaker 1: that moment um, it is impossibly hard as that. It

1474
01:21:03,960 --> 01:21:06,559
Speaker 1: just is because some people are better, some people are

1475
01:21:06,600 --> 01:21:09,519
Speaker 1: just If you read psychology books, I mean, and listen

1476
01:21:09,560 --> 01:21:11,840
Speaker 1: to psychologists. Some people are better in the moment. Some

1477
01:21:11,880 --> 01:21:16,160
Speaker 1: people are able to compartmentalize their emotions and and and

1478
01:21:16,200 --> 01:21:19,200
Speaker 1: have tunnel vision and focus on the moment. Some people

1479
01:21:19,240 --> 01:21:22,640
Speaker 1: are not. Some people, UM are are influenced by the

1480
01:21:22,640 --> 01:21:25,960
Speaker 1: existential at all times. So it's it's a it's a

1481
01:21:26,000 --> 01:21:28,880
Speaker 1: tough thing, but that's that's one philosophy that I've tried

1482
01:21:28,920 --> 01:21:33,479
Speaker 1: to personally apply UM and trying to make this work,

1483
01:21:33,520 --> 01:21:38,760
Speaker 1: and I still suck. But UM, I'm trying. Yeah, And

1484
01:21:38,800 --> 01:21:43,639
Speaker 1: it's it's so situational UM. An example I Another example

1485
01:21:43,680 --> 01:21:46,439
Speaker 1: I'd like to share is my my first archery bowl.

1486
01:21:47,120 --> 01:21:52,000
Speaker 1: UM was a substantially similar experience. I called it into

1487
01:21:52,000 --> 01:21:56,559
Speaker 1: about thirty yards and dense timber and shot it through

1488
01:21:56,560 --> 01:22:02,360
Speaker 1: an even smaller window. Uh, got one lung, got pretty

1489
01:22:02,400 --> 01:22:06,599
Speaker 1: good blood. But it was it was late. We were

1490
01:22:06,720 --> 01:22:08,800
Speaker 1: way up in the mountains. I was with my girlfriend

1491
01:22:08,960 --> 01:22:12,120
Speaker 1: at the time, and it crossed a creek in a

1492
01:22:12,240 --> 01:22:14,799
Speaker 1: swampy area, and then we couldn't pick up blood anymore,

1493
01:22:14,840 --> 01:22:16,920
Speaker 1: and she was getting freaked out. It was dark. She

1494
01:22:16,960 --> 01:22:19,200
Speaker 1: had to work in the morning, so we hiked all

1495
01:22:19,200 --> 01:22:23,800
Speaker 1: the way out of there and dropped her off and

1496
01:22:23,920 --> 01:22:26,360
Speaker 1: slept like two hours, and then picked up a buddy

1497
01:22:26,400 --> 01:22:27,840
Speaker 1: and we went all the way back in there. And

1498
01:22:27,880 --> 01:22:31,479
Speaker 1: this was hours away from where I lived in the Zula,

1499
01:22:31,560 --> 01:22:34,960
Speaker 1: so I mean probably three you know, two and a

1500
01:22:35,000 --> 01:22:39,400
Speaker 1: half hour drive, three and a half hour hiking. Um.

1501
01:22:39,439 --> 01:22:42,280
Speaker 1: But we went back in spent hours trying to pick

1502
01:22:42,360 --> 01:22:44,400
Speaker 1: up the next blood. It had crossed this creek and

1503
01:22:44,479 --> 01:22:48,720
Speaker 1: taken a right angle and went and went downhill, and

1504
01:22:48,800 --> 01:22:53,240
Speaker 1: we were able to find it. Uh just I think

1505
01:22:53,240 --> 01:22:59,000
Speaker 1: it was twenty three hours after the shot, and it

1506
01:22:59,120 --> 01:23:01,719
Speaker 1: was cold, there was some snow on the ground, and

1507
01:23:01,960 --> 01:23:08,200
Speaker 1: I lost maybe three pounds of meat around the ball joints.

1508
01:23:08,200 --> 01:23:12,320
Speaker 1: So the same thing, you know, left a blood trail

1509
01:23:13,400 --> 01:23:16,200
Speaker 1: because of responsibilities and just needing to kind of a

1510
01:23:16,240 --> 01:23:19,519
Speaker 1: mental reset, and I came back in and recovered that

1511
01:23:19,680 --> 01:23:22,320
Speaker 1: entire animal. And it was just a difference of air

1512
01:23:22,400 --> 01:23:29,280
Speaker 1: temperature between between uh taking it all home and losing

1513
01:23:29,320 --> 01:23:32,400
Speaker 1: all of it in, you know. And I remember thinking

1514
01:23:32,479 --> 01:23:34,600
Speaker 1: the day after that that if I killed it the

1515
01:23:34,720 --> 01:23:37,200
Speaker 1: day after that, I would have had that would have

1516
01:23:37,280 --> 01:23:39,920
Speaker 1: had that elk. So it was just the it was

1517
01:23:39,960 --> 01:23:43,760
Speaker 1: just the warm weather that was that was the difference. Yeah,

1518
01:23:43,760 --> 01:23:46,559
Speaker 1: I was I've had a lot of those discussions. Mark

1519
01:23:46,600 --> 01:23:49,200
Speaker 1: Kenny and I talked about this on this podcast last year,

1520
01:23:49,400 --> 01:23:51,840
Speaker 1: and I've talked about a lot of folks and the

1521
01:23:51,880 --> 01:23:55,200
Speaker 1: white tail space. When I was coming up watching Hunter

1522
01:23:55,240 --> 01:23:59,559
Speaker 1: Specialties dvs or named DVDs, it was videotapes and real

1523
01:23:59,640 --> 01:24:02,600
Speaker 1: Dream Starbucks and things like that. This is this is

1524
01:24:02,680 --> 01:24:04,200
Speaker 1: kind of the cadence of how it would go. They

1525
01:24:04,200 --> 01:24:05,680
Speaker 1: shoot the deer and be like, but we gotta let

1526
01:24:05,720 --> 01:24:07,280
Speaker 1: him lay. We gotta, you know, let's go back to

1527
01:24:07,280 --> 01:24:09,160
Speaker 1: the truck, give it about four or five hours, we'll

1528
01:24:09,200 --> 01:24:12,599
Speaker 1: come back and we'll track them. That was always kind

1529
01:24:12,640 --> 01:24:15,920
Speaker 1: of how it went, and I think for new hunters

1530
01:24:15,920 --> 01:24:18,920
Speaker 1: that can be a little bit confusing. Um, especially when

1531
01:24:18,920 --> 01:24:20,880
Speaker 1: you're hunting in an evening, when you're gonna leave something

1532
01:24:21,000 --> 01:24:24,559
Speaker 1: lay overnight. UM. I had a situation in Iowa where

1533
01:24:24,560 --> 01:24:27,600
Speaker 1: I was I was filming a guy. He shoots this

1534
01:24:27,680 --> 01:24:30,880
Speaker 1: giant buck. I was filming it. I'm watching this era

1535
01:24:30,920 --> 01:24:33,200
Speaker 1: go in. I'm like that that that buck ran right

1536
01:24:33,200 --> 01:24:34,680
Speaker 1: down in there and laid down for a couple of

1537
01:24:34,720 --> 01:24:37,600
Speaker 1: hours and died. He was shot in the liver um

1538
01:24:37,600 --> 01:24:40,680
Speaker 1: with a rage broadhead. And I was sure and the

1539
01:24:40,760 --> 01:24:43,120
Speaker 1: hunter wanted to wait and I wanted to go, and

1540
01:24:43,160 --> 01:24:44,960
Speaker 1: we had this, you know, we just had. It was

1541
01:24:45,000 --> 01:24:47,760
Speaker 1: a friendly debate about it. It was his property, so

1542
01:24:47,800 --> 01:24:49,920
Speaker 1: I wasn't gonna get the final call anyway, and his deer,

1543
01:24:50,800 --> 01:24:53,280
Speaker 1: and so we waited, and my argument was like, man,

1544
01:24:53,320 --> 01:24:54,720
Speaker 1: he said, if we bump him, he's gonna go to

1545
01:24:54,760 --> 01:24:57,080
Speaker 1: the neighbors. Then we got problems. And I said, well,

1546
01:24:57,439 --> 01:25:00,280
Speaker 1: I think he's dead and I really would like the

1547
01:25:01,280 --> 01:25:03,559
Speaker 1: to get the meat out of this thing. Um. And

1548
01:25:03,600 --> 01:25:06,120
Speaker 1: if we leave him lay, there's we've been seeing coyotes

1549
01:25:06,160 --> 01:25:09,680
Speaker 1: all weak. Those kyats are gonna be on them. Um,

1550
01:25:10,040 --> 01:25:13,400
Speaker 1: They're going to be right on him. So that was

1551
01:25:14,120 --> 01:25:17,600
Speaker 1: a discussion we had. He ultimately decided, because it was

1552
01:25:17,640 --> 01:25:19,599
Speaker 1: his deer and his property, that we were gonna wait.

1553
01:25:19,680 --> 01:25:21,639
Speaker 1: He didn't want to push this deer under the neighbors.

1554
01:25:21,800 --> 01:25:23,920
Speaker 1: We waited. We came back in the morning and that

1555
01:25:23,960 --> 01:25:25,760
Speaker 1: deer was laying right where I thought he would be

1556
01:25:26,120 --> 01:25:30,160
Speaker 1: half eaten by coyotes. Um. And I think at some

1557
01:25:30,280 --> 01:25:33,599
Speaker 1: level that becomes that's a big part of that is

1558
01:25:33,960 --> 01:25:37,240
Speaker 1: Um exactly what you're talking about, Sam, How long do

1559
01:25:37,280 --> 01:25:40,639
Speaker 1: you leave something lay? What's the judgment call? There and

1560
01:25:40,920 --> 01:25:44,120
Speaker 1: do you risk risks pushing him and never finding him,

1561
01:25:44,320 --> 01:25:46,400
Speaker 1: knowing that you're probably gonna lose some meat in your

1562
01:25:46,400 --> 01:25:49,639
Speaker 1: case to black bears. But in that case the coyotes. Um,

1563
01:25:49,680 --> 01:25:51,599
Speaker 1: there's a whole lot to that equation too, in terms

1564
01:25:51,640 --> 01:25:54,360
Speaker 1: of when do you set off and and what kind

1565
01:25:54,360 --> 01:25:56,559
Speaker 1: of country are you in and all those types of things. Um.

1566
01:25:56,680 --> 01:25:59,479
Speaker 1: So I think that's another important deal. And in that

1567
01:25:59,479 --> 01:26:06,439
Speaker 1: case it was it was hot too. But I want

1568
01:26:06,439 --> 01:26:08,320
Speaker 1: to move on, maybe start with you, Yanni, because you've

1569
01:26:08,320 --> 01:26:11,320
Speaker 1: been doing this as long as anybody, and I had

1570
01:26:11,360 --> 01:26:14,280
Speaker 1: an impact, you know, via the Netflix show and Meat

1571
01:26:14,320 --> 01:26:17,160
Speaker 1: Eater and your work on that. I think that the

1572
01:26:17,479 --> 01:26:20,639
Speaker 1: work that you do has has a larger impact than

1573
01:26:20,720 --> 01:26:24,080
Speaker 1: maybe then a lot of people are industry. Do you

1574
01:26:24,120 --> 01:26:27,519
Speaker 1: feel like we talk about this enough, um, across the

1575
01:26:27,560 --> 01:26:30,760
Speaker 1: media spectrum in hunting, across everything. If you were trying

1576
01:26:30,800 --> 01:26:32,719
Speaker 1: to tally up all the stuff you watch and listen

1577
01:26:32,800 --> 01:26:36,760
Speaker 1: to and and think about in the hunting space. Um,

1578
01:26:37,040 --> 01:26:42,400
Speaker 1: and you're specifically just asking if we talk about wound loss. Yeah, yeah,

1579
01:26:42,520 --> 01:26:46,680
Speaker 1: I mean, yes, this this this scenario where we are

1580
01:26:47,439 --> 01:26:50,440
Speaker 1: wounding an animal and losing it, and the ethics involved

1581
01:26:50,479 --> 01:26:53,519
Speaker 1: and the notching of the tags, the general idea that

1582
01:26:53,640 --> 01:26:58,240
Speaker 1: hunters fail a lot in very serious ways. Man, it's

1583
01:26:58,240 --> 01:27:01,360
Speaker 1: hard for me to say if like, yeah, it's certainly

1584
01:27:01,400 --> 01:27:05,200
Speaker 1: not growing up watching hunting media and reading hunting media,

1585
01:27:05,320 --> 01:27:07,640
Speaker 1: it didn't seem like it was part of the conversation.

1586
01:27:08,760 --> 01:27:11,880
Speaker 1: I feel that like now that I'm a part of it,

1587
01:27:11,920 --> 01:27:16,559
Speaker 1: And certainly when I was even guiding, uh a decade ago,

1588
01:27:16,760 --> 01:27:21,480
Speaker 1: it was certainly a part of the conversation in my crew. Um,

1589
01:27:21,520 --> 01:27:25,840
Speaker 1: we happened to be guiding right when arrows made a

1590
01:27:25,880 --> 01:27:33,160
Speaker 1: big leap from like heavy aluminum you know giants to

1591
01:27:34,200 --> 01:27:36,840
Speaker 1: like the speed freaks since you know, things of like

1592
01:27:36,920 --> 01:27:41,519
Speaker 1: the early two thousand's, um and mid two thousands, and

1593
01:27:41,600 --> 01:27:45,680
Speaker 1: when everybody started shooting really light, really fast U you know,

1594
01:27:46,120 --> 01:27:50,559
Speaker 1: um graphite arrows right, and UM we saw I go

1595
01:27:50,800 --> 01:27:54,360
Speaker 1: from like a lot of clean pass throughs to like

1596
01:27:54,479 --> 01:27:57,479
Speaker 1: these like sand described earlier where people were and that

1597
01:27:57,560 --> 01:28:00,200
Speaker 1: was passing routes on shoulders, And then we'd get these

1598
01:28:00,200 --> 01:28:02,640
Speaker 1: shots with these fast arrows that would hit shoulders and

1599
01:28:02,680 --> 01:28:04,800
Speaker 1: go in like three inches and you just would like

1600
01:28:05,240 --> 01:28:07,599
Speaker 1: watch and walk away. We would even start the blood trail.

1601
01:28:07,640 --> 01:28:09,240
Speaker 1: It was like it wasn't even worth it, but yeah,

1602
01:28:09,600 --> 01:28:12,200
Speaker 1: it's gone, you know. So we always had that conversation

1603
01:28:12,280 --> 01:28:15,000
Speaker 1: going a lot. And it's something that in a guide

1604
01:28:15,000 --> 01:28:18,479
Speaker 1: camp you're maybe more aware of because you're seeing so

1605
01:28:18,680 --> 01:28:21,000
Speaker 1: much of it. And at the end of you know,

1606
01:28:21,439 --> 01:28:24,040
Speaker 1: every season, you can tally it up and you know,

1607
01:28:24,240 --> 01:28:27,120
Speaker 1: someone's like, yeah, my guys shot three times and he

1608
01:28:27,200 --> 01:28:29,880
Speaker 1: maybe only hit once, didn't recover one that somebody else

1609
01:28:29,920 --> 01:28:31,920
Speaker 1: had one that you know what I mean. So it

1610
01:28:32,000 --> 01:28:34,040
Speaker 1: was just easier to have that conversation around a lot.

1611
01:28:34,080 --> 01:28:36,679
Speaker 1: So I don't know, I feel like now, at least

1612
01:28:37,439 --> 01:28:40,280
Speaker 1: amongst our crew, we talk about it a lot. Is

1613
01:28:40,320 --> 01:28:44,479
Speaker 1: it like do I scroll through Instagram right now and

1614
01:28:44,520 --> 01:28:50,800
Speaker 1: see anybody? It's mostly dead animals that you see, uh,

1615
01:28:51,360 --> 01:28:55,120
Speaker 1: and usually not not dead ones like Sam's where he's

1616
01:28:55,120 --> 01:28:58,439
Speaker 1: telling a bigger story there with a with an eaton carcass.

1617
01:28:58,479 --> 01:29:01,479
Speaker 1: It's usually just like a guy with a fairly fresh

1618
01:29:01,479 --> 01:29:08,040
Speaker 1: looking elk and and that's it and it's congratulations. Um.

1619
01:29:08,080 --> 01:29:11,160
Speaker 1: So I don't know, Uh, yeah, it's definitely but do

1620
01:29:11,320 --> 01:29:13,000
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know, I mean, am I gonna,

1621
01:29:13,600 --> 01:29:17,160
Speaker 1: I haven't killed, I haven't wounded something yet? Uh? This

1622
01:29:17,240 --> 01:29:20,720
Speaker 1: year and lost it And if I do, I mean,

1623
01:29:20,760 --> 01:29:22,720
Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, I'll probably post about it to

1624
01:29:22,800 --> 01:29:28,200
Speaker 1: like share the story of you know what happened. Um,

1625
01:29:28,240 --> 01:29:31,200
Speaker 1: But yeah, overall, I don't know. I guess the question

1626
01:29:31,240 --> 01:29:34,360
Speaker 1: is is, like does it need to be talked about more? Um?

1627
01:29:34,680 --> 01:29:38,400
Speaker 1: Is there? Like like what's the value in it? Right? Like,

1628
01:29:38,600 --> 01:29:42,160
Speaker 1: it's certainly valuable I think in the hunting community to

1629
01:29:42,280 --> 01:29:44,920
Speaker 1: talk about it because I think that hopefully it just

1630
01:29:45,000 --> 01:29:49,679
Speaker 1: makes all of us practice more and and like be

1631
01:29:49,680 --> 01:29:54,920
Speaker 1: better at at what we're doing. Um. But like Jim

1632
01:29:55,200 --> 01:29:59,080
Speaker 1: Heffelfinger points out in that article that Pat wrote, it's

1633
01:29:59,160 --> 01:30:04,519
Speaker 1: like all the other predators aren't held to the same

1634
01:30:04,600 --> 01:30:08,400
Speaker 1: thing of of like of ethics and these like kills. Right,

1635
01:30:08,479 --> 01:30:12,200
Speaker 1: It's not like every time a mountain lion jumps onto

1636
01:30:12,280 --> 01:30:14,840
Speaker 1: the back of a mule deer that that thing dies.

1637
01:30:15,160 --> 01:30:19,240
Speaker 1: My buddy Jimmy over in Colorado. Every other year he's

1638
01:30:19,280 --> 01:30:21,600
Speaker 1: got a buck that will be roaming in the backyard

1639
01:30:21,640 --> 01:30:23,840
Speaker 1: all winter long. It's got like a patch of hair

1640
01:30:23,920 --> 01:30:26,320
Speaker 1: missing off its rear end. Like how do you think

1641
01:30:26,360 --> 01:30:29,760
Speaker 1: that happened? You know, like a hundred didn't shoot it off? No,

1642
01:30:29,880 --> 01:30:32,600
Speaker 1: I got raked off by a mountain lion's clause. And

1643
01:30:32,600 --> 01:30:34,160
Speaker 1: now his dear has got to go through the whole

1644
01:30:34,160 --> 01:30:37,719
Speaker 1: winter with like, you know, a twelve inch by twelve

1645
01:30:37,800 --> 01:30:39,840
Speaker 1: inch square patch missing out his rear end where he

1646
01:30:39,880 --> 01:30:43,080
Speaker 1: doesn't have any installation, and uh, most of the time,

1647
01:30:43,080 --> 01:30:45,080
Speaker 1: as far as he can tell, you know, they live

1648
01:30:45,200 --> 01:30:47,559
Speaker 1: through it. Yeah, but mountain lions like don't practice in

1649
01:30:47,560 --> 01:30:53,880
Speaker 1: their backyards. Uh, and listen to podcasts about and no,

1650
01:30:54,000 --> 01:30:56,120
Speaker 1: they don't know, they don't know, but by no, by

1651
01:30:56,120 --> 01:30:58,800
Speaker 1: no means, by no means do they. I think maybe

1652
01:30:58,800 --> 01:31:01,080
Speaker 1: the point that Jim's making that I agree with and

1653
01:31:01,120 --> 01:31:03,880
Speaker 1: I think that you're backing up, is like there's there's

1654
01:31:03,920 --> 01:31:07,360
Speaker 1: like there is an acceptable amount of this just by

1655
01:31:07,400 --> 01:31:11,559
Speaker 1: what we're partaking in, like we have we have to

1656
01:31:11,640 --> 01:31:14,719
Speaker 1: decide what the acceptable amount is for us personally, and

1657
01:31:14,720 --> 01:31:17,320
Speaker 1: and like why it happened is more of a personal endeavor.

1658
01:31:17,360 --> 01:31:21,320
Speaker 1: But in general, you know, Um, another good quote in

1659
01:31:21,360 --> 01:31:24,080
Speaker 1: here in that article for Patrick, and please go go

1660
01:31:24,200 --> 01:31:26,280
Speaker 1: give that a read because it kind of lines out

1661
01:31:26,320 --> 01:31:28,960
Speaker 1: some of the good and bad in terms of wounding

1662
01:31:29,040 --> 01:31:32,040
Speaker 1: loss Um. But there's there's a ton of good quotes

1663
01:31:32,080 --> 01:31:33,680
Speaker 1: in here, but I think one of them is it

1664
01:31:33,800 --> 01:31:37,720
Speaker 1: comes from Jim Heffelfinger, and it's really about is it

1665
01:31:37,840 --> 01:31:42,920
Speaker 1: objective or subjective? And and he talks about um. He says,

1666
01:31:42,960 --> 01:31:46,960
Speaker 1: brutality varies greatly with hunter density, thickness of vegetation, terrain,

1667
01:31:47,080 --> 01:31:50,200
Speaker 1: and hunt structures. Like many mortality factors, a number of

1668
01:31:50,200 --> 01:31:52,559
Speaker 1: deer left in the field after the hunting season would

1669
01:31:52,560 --> 01:31:55,679
Speaker 1: be very difficult to estimate accurately, and any estimate would

1670
01:31:55,680 --> 01:31:58,920
Speaker 1: not be applicable to wide areas were subsequent years. And

1671
01:31:58,960 --> 01:32:01,960
Speaker 1: basically what he's saying is it's damn hard to figure

1672
01:32:02,000 --> 01:32:06,600
Speaker 1: this out. There's so many variables across the board to

1673
01:32:06,760 --> 01:32:09,600
Speaker 1: try to take like a percentage. And and one of

1674
01:32:09,600 --> 01:32:12,360
Speaker 1: the variables is was win or hunters admitting to this?

1675
01:32:12,760 --> 01:32:14,519
Speaker 1: And who were they telling they would be having to

1676
01:32:14,520 --> 01:32:16,559
Speaker 1: tell them in the game. For surveys that that you

1677
01:32:16,600 --> 01:32:20,120
Speaker 1: get from most every state you buy a tagging or

1678
01:32:20,200 --> 01:32:22,439
Speaker 1: draw a tagging, you'd have to be admitting to this

1679
01:32:22,479 --> 01:32:24,959
Speaker 1: at some level. And and and who knows how truthful

1680
01:32:25,000 --> 01:32:27,320
Speaker 1: folks would be even in that, even in that sense.

1681
01:32:27,640 --> 01:32:31,599
Speaker 1: But interestingly, all the surveys I've ever taken, whether written

1682
01:32:31,760 --> 01:32:34,519
Speaker 1: or the phone call you get in January, I don't

1683
01:32:34,560 --> 01:32:38,599
Speaker 1: think I've ever been asked a question about me either

1684
01:32:38,920 --> 01:32:41,720
Speaker 1: me either you know, so, how do you are you there?

1685
01:32:41,720 --> 01:32:45,639
Speaker 1: Are they generally just taking there's some studies mentioned that article,

1686
01:32:45,680 --> 01:32:48,679
Speaker 1: but they're just generally taking this idea of a certain

1687
01:32:48,720 --> 01:32:56,679
Speaker 1: percentage um and applying it in in a generalized fashion. Um,

1688
01:32:56,720 --> 01:33:00,400
Speaker 1: you know. They He talks about a penn State professor

1689
01:33:00,400 --> 01:33:02,400
Speaker 1: who said research in the past twenty years suggests that

1690
01:33:02,439 --> 01:33:05,479
Speaker 1: only one to two of deer shot by hunters aren't found,

1691
01:33:06,360 --> 01:33:08,840
Speaker 1: and that Pennsylvania in this case loses way more deer

1692
01:33:08,840 --> 01:33:11,640
Speaker 1: to cars and trucks than undercovered hunting losses UM. And

1693
01:33:11,680 --> 01:33:14,000
Speaker 1: outside hunting season, we might they say, we might lose

1694
01:33:14,040 --> 01:33:17,679
Speaker 1: five to twelve tops to other factors, and that's mostly

1695
01:33:17,720 --> 01:33:21,800
Speaker 1: cars um. And so there's there's just a ton you know,

1696
01:33:21,840 --> 01:33:23,720
Speaker 1: when it comes to the data side of things. I

1697
01:33:23,760 --> 01:33:25,840
Speaker 1: don't know that there's a whole lot we can talk about.

1698
01:33:25,920 --> 01:33:28,519
Speaker 1: It's a really tough thing that's never gonna get pinned down,

1699
01:33:29,240 --> 01:33:32,439
Speaker 1: um in any real way that I can see based

1700
01:33:32,479 --> 01:33:34,599
Speaker 1: on a lot of these experts and what I've seen,

1701
01:33:35,040 --> 01:33:37,080
Speaker 1: And so then it just comes down to ethics and

1702
01:33:37,080 --> 01:33:40,160
Speaker 1: and some of the other less tangible ship that we

1703
01:33:40,160 --> 01:33:42,880
Speaker 1: can talk about that we often do. Yeah, But you know,

1704
01:33:42,920 --> 01:33:44,840
Speaker 1: at the same time, one thing that really jumped out

1705
01:33:44,840 --> 01:33:47,639
Speaker 1: to me about that article was that he he said,

1706
01:33:48,640 --> 01:33:51,080
Speaker 1: you know, he's spends a lot of time in this

1707
01:33:51,560 --> 01:33:58,920
Speaker 1: explaining how deer and elk un populations are estimated and

1708
01:33:58,960 --> 01:34:06,360
Speaker 1: accounted for, and was saying that Colorado estimates wounding loss

1709
01:34:06,400 --> 01:34:09,680
Speaker 1: for bull elk. Colorado has the biggest elk population and

1710
01:34:09,720 --> 01:34:12,640
Speaker 1: the most elk hunting of any state, and they just

1711
01:34:13,080 --> 01:34:17,519
Speaker 1: across the board assume that percent of bulls that are

1712
01:34:17,600 --> 01:34:21,000
Speaker 1: killed every year aren't aren't being found, and so that

1713
01:34:21,000 --> 01:34:24,000
Speaker 1: that varies pretty widely from some of the other states

1714
01:34:25,160 --> 01:34:28,040
Speaker 1: that are just talking about whitetail deer that account for

1715
01:34:28,080 --> 01:34:31,759
Speaker 1: a lot smaller wounding loss, accounts for a lot smaller

1716
01:34:31,760 --> 01:34:36,040
Speaker 1: percentage of the overall population loss every year. And I

1717
01:34:36,040 --> 01:34:38,320
Speaker 1: think it just goes to show that elk are incredibly

1718
01:34:38,360 --> 01:34:41,680
Speaker 1: difficult to bring down. They just have that really that

1719
01:34:41,760 --> 01:34:44,280
Speaker 1: strong will to live. And I mean, I've I've heard

1720
01:34:44,280 --> 01:34:47,880
Speaker 1: that from hunters my whole life. You guys who have

1721
01:34:47,960 --> 01:34:51,080
Speaker 1: hunted all over the world in Africa and Asia, and

1722
01:34:51,439 --> 01:34:53,519
Speaker 1: they'll tell you that elk are one of the hardest

1723
01:34:53,600 --> 01:34:56,800
Speaker 1: to bring down. Just have so much fight in them.

1724
01:34:56,800 --> 01:34:59,080
Speaker 1: And I mean that's an intangible too. But you know,

1725
01:34:59,160 --> 01:35:02,360
Speaker 1: I think it's really in deicative that that Colorado just

1726
01:35:02,479 --> 01:35:05,280
Speaker 1: across the board assumes that fifteen percent of bowls won't

1727
01:35:05,280 --> 01:35:07,200
Speaker 1: be recovered, and I think it's and it says that

1728
01:35:07,240 --> 01:35:11,599
Speaker 1: twenty five percent of cows, that's right, aren't recovered. And

1729
01:35:11,600 --> 01:35:14,800
Speaker 1: you know, explain a lot of this is really uh,

1730
01:35:15,200 --> 01:35:17,880
Speaker 1: out of this is really cognitive that you know, you

1731
01:35:17,920 --> 01:35:20,200
Speaker 1: look a lot harder when you've got a bowl on

1732
01:35:20,280 --> 01:35:23,920
Speaker 1: the line. Um. Often when you're hunting cows, you know

1733
01:35:23,960 --> 01:35:26,240
Speaker 1: you're in kind of a a group of them and

1734
01:35:26,240 --> 01:35:34,200
Speaker 1: it's hard to tell what one did what. Um, yeah, yeah.

1735
01:35:34,240 --> 01:35:37,160
Speaker 1: Well you also you also think like over the years,

1736
01:35:37,200 --> 01:35:40,960
Speaker 1: Colorado has it's changing now, but has had as much

1737
01:35:41,000 --> 01:35:43,640
Speaker 1: over the counter activity from out of state hunters is

1738
01:35:44,439 --> 01:35:48,360
Speaker 1: any state. And you put that into those archery seasons

1739
01:35:48,439 --> 01:35:51,919
Speaker 1: being long, um, a lot of over the counter tags,

1740
01:35:52,439 --> 01:35:56,760
Speaker 1: a lot of elk, a lot of interactions. Um, that

1741
01:35:56,840 --> 01:35:58,559
Speaker 1: number is going to go up. And then you've got

1742
01:35:58,560 --> 01:36:00,559
Speaker 1: to add in there that elk are as tough as

1743
01:36:00,560 --> 01:36:02,760
Speaker 1: they are, it's tough to bring down as they are.

1744
01:36:02,840 --> 01:36:06,519
Speaker 1: And then that number seems the way it seems very

1745
01:36:06,760 --> 01:36:11,000
Speaker 1: very reasonable, UM, in terms of you know that that

1746
01:36:11,040 --> 01:36:13,760
Speaker 1: particular situation. So to the to that quote I read

1747
01:36:13,800 --> 01:36:17,320
Speaker 1: by Jim it you know, it's so hard you couldn't

1748
01:36:17,360 --> 01:36:21,200
Speaker 1: apply the archery specific method of take the game animal

1749
01:36:21,280 --> 01:36:24,760
Speaker 1: and the state. UM, you'd have to you know, you

1750
01:36:24,800 --> 01:36:27,679
Speaker 1: can't compare really one to the other. And even probably

1751
01:36:27,680 --> 01:36:30,880
Speaker 1: withinside a state, if you have a very limited entry

1752
01:36:31,000 --> 01:36:34,519
Speaker 1: white tail season and a wide open archery season for elk,

1753
01:36:35,000 --> 01:36:37,439
Speaker 1: the wound lost percentages are gonna be way different even

1754
01:36:37,479 --> 01:36:41,040
Speaker 1: within that with those two scenarios. So as a it's

1755
01:36:41,040 --> 01:36:44,519
Speaker 1: a tough thing to nail down for sure. But maybe

1756
01:36:44,560 --> 01:36:48,519
Speaker 1: back to the UM, to the media point, because I

1757
01:36:48,240 --> 01:36:51,120
Speaker 1: I do think as much as I think this is

1758
01:36:51,200 --> 01:36:54,880
Speaker 1: kind of trite now like social media has a big

1759
01:36:54,920 --> 01:36:57,679
Speaker 1: impact on new hunters for sure. I mean the term

1760
01:36:57,760 --> 01:37:02,519
Speaker 1: influencer exists for a reason. UM. And I I've I

1761
01:37:02,600 --> 01:37:04,800
Speaker 1: ran into a guy in a in a turkey camp

1762
01:37:05,240 --> 01:37:10,280
Speaker 1: years ago, UM that shot and wounded a turkey with

1763
01:37:10,400 --> 01:37:14,640
Speaker 1: archer with archery equipment, and in some way expressed to

1764
01:37:14,680 --> 01:37:18,080
Speaker 1: me that he had never seen he didn't understand what

1765
01:37:18,200 --> 01:37:21,920
Speaker 1: wounding an animal looked like, what it was. He understood

1766
01:37:21,920 --> 01:37:24,720
Speaker 1: everything about success what the where the shot had to go,

1767
01:37:25,439 --> 01:37:28,360
Speaker 1: where like how far the animal is gonna run, what

1768
01:37:28,439 --> 01:37:29,920
Speaker 1: it looked like when you shot it, what it looked

1769
01:37:29,920 --> 01:37:31,640
Speaker 1: like when it was dead, how to eat it, how

1770
01:37:31,680 --> 01:37:34,400
Speaker 1: to cut it up? But he had never seen or

1771
01:37:34,439 --> 01:37:37,120
Speaker 1: been exposed to that same level of clarity when it

1772
01:37:37,200 --> 01:37:40,880
Speaker 1: came to wounding an animal, because he got all his

1773
01:37:41,520 --> 01:37:45,320
Speaker 1: gumption to go hunting off social media and some some

1774
01:37:45,960 --> 01:37:48,880
Speaker 1: very famous individuals that we were showing a lot of

1775
01:37:48,960 --> 01:37:51,840
Speaker 1: hunting there. So I don't know if you know that's

1776
01:37:51,840 --> 01:37:54,559
Speaker 1: addicative of a lot of new hunters, if they do

1777
01:37:54,680 --> 01:37:56,280
Speaker 1: or do not. But I, like you said, yeah, on

1778
01:37:56,320 --> 01:37:58,800
Speaker 1: our platforms, I think we probably talked about it, you

1779
01:37:58,800 --> 01:38:01,280
Speaker 1: know at a good a good clip and as much

1780
01:38:01,320 --> 01:38:04,559
Speaker 1: as it happens, we mentioned it. Um. But I don't know,

1781
01:38:04,680 --> 01:38:06,400
Speaker 1: like if you thought about this, Sam, do you feel

1782
01:38:06,439 --> 01:38:09,000
Speaker 1: like social media, particularly just because of the way it is,

1783
01:38:09,840 --> 01:38:14,440
Speaker 1: dead animals get more likes, so you see who're dead animals? Right? Yeah? Absolutely?

1784
01:38:14,479 --> 01:38:16,559
Speaker 1: And I and I think, uh, you know, kind of

1785
01:38:16,600 --> 01:38:20,920
Speaker 1: within the social media influencer sphere, I think of many

1786
01:38:21,080 --> 01:38:27,439
Speaker 1: many people are loathe to portray their own mistakes. You know,

1787
01:38:27,880 --> 01:38:31,720
Speaker 1: we all try to give the best, best version of

1788
01:38:31,720 --> 01:38:35,120
Speaker 1: ourselves on social media. I mean, anytime I run into

1789
01:38:35,120 --> 01:38:37,000
Speaker 1: a friend from college or high school, they're like, you

1790
01:38:37,080 --> 01:38:39,320
Speaker 1: hunt all the time. It's cool that you get to

1791
01:38:39,400 --> 01:38:43,280
Speaker 1: hunt for work like I. I hunt on the weekends

1792
01:38:43,280 --> 01:38:46,679
Speaker 1: just like everybody else, um or before or after work.

1793
01:38:47,280 --> 01:38:49,360
Speaker 1: You know, I don't. I don't usually post a lot

1794
01:38:49,400 --> 01:38:51,759
Speaker 1: of selfies of me sitting here on my basement pounding

1795
01:38:51,760 --> 01:38:54,840
Speaker 1: on my computer. UM. And I think that's even more

1796
01:38:54,880 --> 01:38:58,080
Speaker 1: true with the higher levels people have higher followerships. They

1797
01:38:58,120 --> 01:39:01,080
Speaker 1: don't want to. I think it's a natural thing to

1798
01:39:01,240 --> 01:39:04,479
Speaker 1: portray the best version of yourself, not the worst. But

1799
01:39:04,600 --> 01:39:07,519
Speaker 1: at the same time, you know, we have one of

1800
01:39:07,560 --> 01:39:11,639
Speaker 1: the one of the biggest platforms in the hunting world

1801
01:39:11,680 --> 01:39:16,400
Speaker 1: being on on Netflix, and season nine of Meat Eater

1802
01:39:17,040 --> 01:39:20,160
Speaker 1: dropped on Netflix like a few days before the situation

1803
01:39:20,200 --> 01:39:22,559
Speaker 1: that happened to me this year. I had just seen

1804
01:39:23,200 --> 01:39:26,640
Speaker 1: Steve's Colorado hunt where he wounded a bull elk with

1805
01:39:26,680 --> 01:39:31,160
Speaker 1: a muzzle loader. Um, and he did not recover it.

1806
01:39:32,680 --> 01:39:35,720
Speaker 1: He did punch his tag or or stopped hunting. I don't.

1807
01:39:35,760 --> 01:39:37,800
Speaker 1: I don't remember if he if he actually made that,

1808
01:39:38,800 --> 01:39:41,439
Speaker 1: you know, the actual action of punching the tag. I

1809
01:39:41,439 --> 01:39:45,240
Speaker 1: don't remember, but you know he had to wrestle with that,

1810
01:39:45,320 --> 01:39:47,599
Speaker 1: and I think he did it very well and talked

1811
01:39:47,600 --> 01:39:53,120
Speaker 1: about how you know, he he could make some peace

1812
01:39:53,160 --> 01:39:57,080
Speaker 1: with it, knowing that there's that there's no zero sum

1813
01:39:57,479 --> 01:40:02,800
Speaker 1: in in in the wild, that that bowl either survived

1814
01:40:03,479 --> 01:40:06,160
Speaker 1: or if it died, it would feed, you know, it

1815
01:40:06,200 --> 01:40:09,559
Speaker 1: could it might feed a black bear cub. That that

1816
01:40:09,680 --> 01:40:16,000
Speaker 1: might make the difference between that bear surviving and not

1817
01:40:16,120 --> 01:40:19,040
Speaker 1: making through making through its first winter. And I I

1818
01:40:19,120 --> 01:40:21,719
Speaker 1: knew that for a fact that two black bear cubs,

1819
01:40:22,040 --> 01:40:24,559
Speaker 1: we're going to be very well fed on that elk.

1820
01:40:24,640 --> 01:40:27,080
Speaker 1: And that wasn't exactly what I went out trying to do.

1821
01:40:27,200 --> 01:40:30,679
Speaker 1: I wasn't too worried about those those cubs. And clearly

1822
01:40:31,200 --> 01:40:34,599
Speaker 1: that that spot has a very healthy bear population. If

1823
01:40:34,640 --> 01:40:37,760
Speaker 1: I ran, oh yeah, and those those thousands of maggots too, right,

1824
01:40:37,880 --> 01:40:40,960
Speaker 1: you're not like trying to like feed the fly population

1825
01:40:41,000 --> 01:40:43,759
Speaker 1: and help them out. But like none of that stuff

1826
01:40:43,760 --> 01:40:45,920
Speaker 1: goes to waste, man, it all just goes right back

1827
01:40:45,920 --> 01:40:48,160
Speaker 1: into the earth. And you're and if this is a

1828
01:40:48,160 --> 01:40:51,280
Speaker 1: place where you frequent, like you frequent this these mountains,

1829
01:40:51,320 --> 01:40:52,800
Speaker 1: like you might get a chance to hunt that bear

1830
01:40:52,880 --> 01:40:55,439
Speaker 1: later on you know, like well, I mean I gave

1831
01:40:55,479 --> 01:40:59,120
Speaker 1: I gave Janice here the way point of that carcass

1832
01:40:59,200 --> 01:41:01,240
Speaker 1: so he could try to go hunt bears. Don't Yanni,

1833
01:41:01,320 --> 01:41:03,840
Speaker 1: did you end up making up there? I never did.

1834
01:41:03,960 --> 01:41:07,439
Speaker 1: I never did. But hunted not not right to that car,

1835
01:41:07,479 --> 01:41:10,519
Speaker 1: because but I certainly hunted the area just in general,

1836
01:41:10,800 --> 01:41:13,840
Speaker 1: uh like around it like that roughly that same ridge.

1837
01:41:14,560 --> 01:41:17,400
Speaker 1: And um was you know, knowing that you had seen

1838
01:41:17,400 --> 01:41:19,920
Speaker 1: so many bears. I was always on the lookout, sure,

1839
01:41:20,040 --> 01:41:21,680
Speaker 1: and I would have I probably would have gone. I mean,

1840
01:41:21,720 --> 01:41:23,200
Speaker 1: I killed a bear of this spring, so I don't

1841
01:41:23,200 --> 01:41:25,880
Speaker 1: have a bear tag this fall. So but if I had,

1842
01:41:26,400 --> 01:41:28,320
Speaker 1: I probably would have tried to arrow one of those

1843
01:41:28,360 --> 01:41:31,240
Speaker 1: bears when I was in there with the elk, or

1844
01:41:31,320 --> 01:41:34,880
Speaker 1: gone back with a rifle once the Yeah, I guess

1845
01:41:34,880 --> 01:41:37,400
Speaker 1: the bear rifle. Bear season was open at that time.

1846
01:41:38,960 --> 01:41:41,720
Speaker 1: So I don't know. It's there's there's no there's no

1847
01:41:41,880 --> 01:41:44,280
Speaker 1: complete loss if you look at it in at an

1848
01:41:44,320 --> 01:41:47,360
Speaker 1: ecosystem level. And I mean that that may be just

1849
01:41:47,400 --> 01:41:50,679
Speaker 1: a platitude that makes itself helps us make make ourselves

1850
01:41:50,720 --> 01:41:53,920
Speaker 1: feel better about it. But I think I think it's

1851
01:41:53,920 --> 01:41:58,880
Speaker 1: important for us to take a you know, a landscape

1852
01:41:59,000 --> 01:42:02,960
Speaker 1: level approach to what we do because wildlife managers should

1853
01:42:03,000 --> 01:42:05,880
Speaker 1: do and that's how natural systems function. It isn't it, Yeah,

1854
01:42:05,920 --> 01:42:07,560
Speaker 1: it isn't. It isn't right. It is a It is

1855
01:42:07,600 --> 01:42:09,559
Speaker 1: a platitude at some of it. But when you when

1856
01:42:09,560 --> 01:42:10,920
Speaker 1: you shoot at elk and you don't recover it and

1857
01:42:11,000 --> 01:42:13,120
Speaker 1: you shed some tears, like I feel like you've on

1858
01:42:13,240 --> 01:42:15,960
Speaker 1: emotional level, You've done You've done the work you need

1859
01:42:16,000 --> 01:42:18,960
Speaker 1: to do in terms of understanding the impact to you

1860
01:42:19,040 --> 01:42:21,280
Speaker 1: and the animal and everything. So I mean, there's that

1861
01:42:21,960 --> 01:42:23,880
Speaker 1: like if you were to just say that happens and

1862
01:42:24,000 --> 01:42:27,599
Speaker 1: just keep on rolling that that probably isn't isn't quite

1863
01:42:27,800 --> 01:42:31,920
Speaker 1: enough depending on the scenario. Um. But when you when

1864
01:42:31,960 --> 01:42:35,960
Speaker 1: you can first deal with the personal emotions and then

1865
01:42:36,040 --> 01:42:38,639
Speaker 1: deal and then and then let that dissipate, and then

1866
01:42:38,800 --> 01:42:43,520
Speaker 1: and understand the ecosystem and how it functions above that,

1867
01:42:43,520 --> 01:42:47,400
Speaker 1: that's that's that's totally natural, I think, UM, But you

1868
01:42:47,400 --> 01:42:50,000
Speaker 1: know I and I would say that I said before

1869
01:42:50,000 --> 01:42:53,160
Speaker 1: we started recording that my dad told me not to

1870
01:42:53,160 --> 01:42:56,519
Speaker 1: talk about wounding animals early in my hunting life. I

1871
01:42:56,800 --> 01:42:59,639
Speaker 1: don't know that he ever told me that specifically. Um,

1872
01:42:59,720 --> 01:43:02,560
Speaker 1: and I can't remember I'm ever saying, hey, son, you know,

1873
01:43:02,600 --> 01:43:04,559
Speaker 1: if you wound one, don't tell anybody, but I must

1874
01:43:04,600 --> 01:43:06,840
Speaker 1: I must have wounded as a twelve year old, I

1875
01:43:06,880 --> 01:43:08,960
Speaker 1: must have wounded two or at least two deer with

1876
01:43:09,000 --> 01:43:12,520
Speaker 1: the right but before I killed my first one. Um,

1877
01:43:12,560 --> 01:43:15,800
Speaker 1: And so so we definitely went through that. But I'm

1878
01:43:15,840 --> 01:43:19,960
Speaker 1: glad like as the years have gone by that um

1879
01:43:20,000 --> 01:43:23,559
Speaker 1: this traditional idea that that you don't really talk about

1880
01:43:23,600 --> 01:43:26,280
Speaker 1: as much as as has changed. So the fact that

1881
01:43:26,280 --> 01:43:29,600
Speaker 1: it's on Netflix Stephen Ellis talking about it is a

1882
01:43:29,640 --> 01:43:33,439
Speaker 1: big deal UM to me personally, that that that we

1883
01:43:33,479 --> 01:43:36,360
Speaker 1: can do that and and it it works for everybody,

1884
01:43:36,560 --> 01:43:38,920
Speaker 1: and and it's not something that the quote unquote anti

1885
01:43:39,000 --> 01:43:43,160
Speaker 1: hunters will attack us for um as much anymore. I'm

1886
01:43:43,200 --> 01:43:46,599
Speaker 1: not afraid of that, that's for sure. So, um, Phil,

1887
01:43:46,680 --> 01:43:49,880
Speaker 1: you're you've been here the whole time, what whenever? What

1888
01:43:49,920 --> 01:43:51,479
Speaker 1: do you think about this when you get on your

1889
01:43:51,520 --> 01:43:55,160
Speaker 1: first hunt, when you get out there? Uh, and your

1890
01:43:55,160 --> 01:43:59,400
Speaker 1: face with this like ultimate moment. I don't know, I

1891
01:43:59,439 --> 01:44:02,120
Speaker 1: guess I mean, so, as you guys have been talking,

1892
01:44:02,160 --> 01:44:07,760
Speaker 1: I've been doing some hunter safety. I finished events in

1893
01:44:07,800 --> 01:44:13,240
Speaker 1: the last hour. We coerced him into it. Coincidentally, the

1894
01:44:13,280 --> 01:44:16,760
Speaker 1: what I'm doing is on marksmanship right now. Um, I mean,

1895
01:44:16,840 --> 01:44:18,240
Speaker 1: I don't, I don't. I don't know, man, I feel

1896
01:44:18,240 --> 01:44:19,920
Speaker 1: like it's just one of those things where it's just like,

1897
01:44:20,160 --> 01:44:22,479
Speaker 1: you know, you do everything in your power to to

1898
01:44:22,920 --> 01:44:25,760
Speaker 1: to do everything correctly, but you know, you guys, you

1899
01:44:25,760 --> 01:44:27,760
Speaker 1: guys have been talking about this. There's a million there's

1900
01:44:27,760 --> 01:44:31,280
Speaker 1: a million variables, but you have the power to to

1901
01:44:31,479 --> 01:44:34,720
Speaker 1: you know, shift things as much in your favor as

1902
01:44:34,720 --> 01:44:38,040
Speaker 1: possible and the animals favor. Um, you know I'm gonna

1903
01:44:38,040 --> 01:44:40,360
Speaker 1: do my best. Ben Okay, I know you will. Phil,

1904
01:44:40,640 --> 01:44:43,240
Speaker 1: I know you will. I just wonder of all this

1905
01:44:43,280 --> 01:44:45,360
Speaker 1: is not like the most happy, go lucky way for

1906
01:44:45,400 --> 01:44:50,800
Speaker 1: you to experience this. You know your your excitement level. Uh,

1907
01:44:51,080 --> 01:44:53,160
Speaker 1: what's the number there so we can tell our friend

1908
01:44:53,280 --> 01:44:56,479
Speaker 1: Eric Hall Oh, I don't know. I mean like, honestly,

1909
01:44:56,479 --> 01:44:58,719
Speaker 1: the more I work on on on the hunter safety course,

1910
01:44:58,920 --> 01:45:02,479
Speaker 1: my my number goes up. I drifted away from it,

1911
01:45:02,880 --> 01:45:08,639
Speaker 1: but I'm I'm I'm coming back. People are pissed at you, man, Yanni.

1912
01:45:08,760 --> 01:45:12,320
Speaker 1: Yanni has developed apathy for the situation. But people in

1913
01:45:12,400 --> 01:45:16,160
Speaker 1: my Instagram games are just hunting is not for everybody.

1914
01:45:16,240 --> 01:45:18,960
Speaker 1: It's true. Be honest. I see what you're doing and

1915
01:45:19,000 --> 01:45:23,760
Speaker 1: it's working. I'm not trying to do anything, man, I'm

1916
01:45:23,800 --> 01:45:29,240
Speaker 1: being very just straightforward about you. I know, I sense

1917
01:45:29,320 --> 01:45:34,320
Speaker 1: your your disappointment. It I respond to you way more

1918
01:45:34,320 --> 01:45:37,360
Speaker 1: than Ben. Yeah, every time Yanni's on and the heat

1919
01:45:37,560 --> 01:45:39,920
Speaker 1: Now you're just stirring the pot film he was staring

1920
01:45:40,000 --> 01:45:44,360
Speaker 1: the pot. Well, you never know. We may this may

1921
01:45:44,400 --> 01:45:47,000
Speaker 1: give us a chance to invite one of your listeners

1922
01:45:47,000 --> 01:45:48,760
Speaker 1: on the hunt with me and Phil on his first hunt,

1923
01:45:48,800 --> 01:45:52,559
Speaker 1: so you can give the play by play anyhow, Man,

1924
01:45:52,640 --> 01:45:54,720
Speaker 1: let me throw something out that I thought i'd bring

1925
01:45:54,800 --> 01:45:58,240
Speaker 1: up for this conversation. It is always fine, kind of interesting.

1926
01:45:58,400 --> 01:46:01,479
Speaker 1: We start talking about ethics and then the decisions we

1927
01:46:01,520 --> 01:46:04,040
Speaker 1: make about how we kill animals and how clean we

1928
01:46:04,080 --> 01:46:06,559
Speaker 1: try to do them. I feel like that we never

1929
01:46:06,680 --> 01:46:14,639
Speaker 1: extend the same, uh, you know, level of care towards

1930
01:46:14,720 --> 01:46:18,400
Speaker 1: you know, how quickly and cleanly and and all that

1931
01:46:18,439 --> 01:46:22,360
Speaker 1: we kill a small game animal or a bird is

1932
01:46:22,400 --> 01:46:25,280
Speaker 1: like that we do with a with a big game animal.

1933
01:46:25,600 --> 01:46:28,200
Speaker 1: I mean, all the servers are just held on this

1934
01:46:28,320 --> 01:46:31,240
Speaker 1: pedestal that you just it has to be, you know,

1935
01:46:31,840 --> 01:46:36,519
Speaker 1: one bullet dead as soon as possible, etcetera. Yet, like

1936
01:46:36,920 --> 01:46:41,120
Speaker 1: when a flock of ducks fly by, like I'm often

1937
01:46:41,240 --> 01:46:44,640
Speaker 1: like not shooting, and everybody else in the blind empties

1938
01:46:44,680 --> 01:46:49,000
Speaker 1: their gun and sometimes zero birds fall out of the

1939
01:46:49,000 --> 01:46:53,519
Speaker 1: sky right, And so it's like that is way like

1940
01:46:53,640 --> 01:46:58,000
Speaker 1: two totally different things, and it's completely acceptable to do

1941
01:46:58,040 --> 01:47:00,760
Speaker 1: that with ducks or I don't know, maybe am I not?

1942
01:47:00,920 --> 01:47:04,720
Speaker 1: Do you guys think it's acceptable to Janni Yanni? If

1943
01:47:04,720 --> 01:47:07,519
Speaker 1: you if you think if elk are fifteen percent, as

1944
01:47:07,520 --> 01:47:09,600
Speaker 1: the City of Colorado says, I mean, ducks have to

1945
01:47:09,640 --> 01:47:13,360
Speaker 1: be approaching fifty. And last last weekend, I was with

1946
01:47:13,400 --> 01:47:18,320
Speaker 1: some friends in a in a duck camp. You guys

1947
01:47:18,320 --> 01:47:22,160
Speaker 1: know HANSI in production and he had two new buddies.

1948
01:47:22,640 --> 01:47:27,000
Speaker 1: The duck hunting was terrible. Um, I never even shot.

1949
01:47:27,000 --> 01:47:31,120
Speaker 1: I fired my gun once and missed. But the second

1950
01:47:31,160 --> 01:47:35,680
Speaker 1: day we're out there, we shot four ducks, well, the

1951
01:47:35,720 --> 01:47:37,800
Speaker 1: group shot four ducks. I didn't shoot any of them,

1952
01:47:38,000 --> 01:47:41,040
Speaker 1: and we were covered two and lost two that they're

1953
01:47:41,080 --> 01:47:44,200
Speaker 1: winged and swam off and got in the wind. And

1954
01:47:44,720 --> 01:47:47,400
Speaker 1: I mean HANSI almost flipped his canoe chasing after one

1955
01:47:47,479 --> 01:47:49,439
Speaker 1: and it got into the reeds. And he never found

1956
01:47:49,479 --> 01:47:53,760
Speaker 1: it and like, and he exhibited an incredible dedication to

1957
01:47:53,800 --> 01:47:56,559
Speaker 1: trying to get that duck, like literally put himself in

1958
01:47:56,640 --> 01:48:00,040
Speaker 1: danger of trying to do it, and and opened my

1959
01:48:00,120 --> 01:48:03,080
Speaker 1: eyes because I've been duck hunting my entire life, and

1960
01:48:03,520 --> 01:48:06,800
Speaker 1: I've seen so many people just be well, that one

1961
01:48:06,840 --> 01:48:09,320
Speaker 1: got away. Hopefully maybe it'll maybe it'll make it. Maybe

1962
01:48:09,360 --> 01:48:11,639
Speaker 1: it's kyote food you got, the coyote's gotta eat too.

1963
01:48:12,040 --> 01:48:16,800
Speaker 1: And that's that's wounding loss in that in that one

1964
01:48:16,880 --> 01:48:20,320
Speaker 1: duck shoot last weekend. And I've seen that my entire life,

1965
01:48:20,479 --> 01:48:25,439
Speaker 1: that that ducks are difficult to recover and uh and

1966
01:48:25,560 --> 01:48:29,040
Speaker 1: hunters don't don't get don't pay them that same respect

1967
01:48:29,479 --> 01:48:33,639
Speaker 1: as as large animals. And I wonder if that's because

1968
01:48:33,640 --> 01:48:35,760
Speaker 1: we actually pay them less respect or because it's a

1969
01:48:35,760 --> 01:48:40,720
Speaker 1: bigger pay off to find your elk. I I don't know.

1970
01:48:40,800 --> 01:48:43,559
Speaker 1: It's it's difficult to understand that with ducks. I mean,

1971
01:48:43,560 --> 01:48:45,240
Speaker 1: you see a lot of duck hunters hold Yeah, they

1972
01:48:45,280 --> 01:48:47,920
Speaker 1: hold a duck up right like like a little you know,

1973
01:48:48,000 --> 01:48:49,800
Speaker 1: like I think they look like they want to pet

1974
01:48:49,800 --> 01:48:53,320
Speaker 1: this duck when they kill it. And how beautiful ducks are.

1975
01:48:53,720 --> 01:48:55,880
Speaker 1: So I think there's like respect after the kill. I

1976
01:48:55,880 --> 01:48:58,760
Speaker 1: think one of one of the big parts here is

1977
01:48:58,800 --> 01:49:00,280
Speaker 1: that I always say that the hunters of when the

1978
01:49:00,280 --> 01:49:04,040
Speaker 1: gloves come off, you know, when Farrell hogs in Texas

1979
01:49:04,120 --> 01:49:07,240
Speaker 1: as a whole, that's a party um for people, and

1980
01:49:07,240 --> 01:49:08,920
Speaker 1: and the ethics kind of go out the door. But

1981
01:49:09,040 --> 01:49:11,960
Speaker 1: in this case you can there isn't just one tag

1982
01:49:12,280 --> 01:49:15,280
Speaker 1: and oftentimes you do not have to draw that tag

1983
01:49:15,439 --> 01:49:18,920
Speaker 1: unless we're talking about cranes or or something like that,

1984
01:49:19,080 --> 01:49:23,880
Speaker 1: or swans. When in the waterfowl world, um, so you

1985
01:49:23,960 --> 01:49:26,559
Speaker 1: have you feel like there's carte blanche and if you

1986
01:49:26,640 --> 01:49:29,240
Speaker 1: don't get today's limits, you could get tomorrow's limit, and

1987
01:49:29,520 --> 01:49:33,040
Speaker 1: and there's not such a you know, on a personal level,

1988
01:49:33,160 --> 01:49:36,679
Speaker 1: you duck hunt can be ten ducks or three ducks

1989
01:49:36,800 --> 01:49:39,719
Speaker 1: or or whatever, depending on where you're at. And so

1990
01:49:40,640 --> 01:49:44,280
Speaker 1: I imagine people just take less umbrage of of the

1991
01:49:44,360 --> 01:49:47,760
Speaker 1: seriousness of of notching your tag or or getting your

1992
01:49:47,760 --> 01:49:51,439
Speaker 1: limit when when there's less to be worried about there.

1993
01:49:51,479 --> 01:49:53,840
Speaker 1: I don't know, but I do think that that has

1994
01:49:53,880 --> 01:49:58,280
Speaker 1: a lot to do with it. Interesting. Yeah, yeah, I

1995
01:49:58,280 --> 01:50:00,880
Speaker 1: think you're probably right about that. Then it's it does

1996
01:50:01,000 --> 01:50:04,000
Speaker 1: it does vary by by animal, but I think, you know,

1997
01:50:04,080 --> 01:50:10,080
Speaker 1: the some of the overarching lessons remain. I think I

1998
01:50:10,120 --> 01:50:11,920
Speaker 1: think one thing we need to point to is that

1999
01:50:12,160 --> 01:50:15,040
Speaker 1: death is rarely clean. We try to make it as

2000
01:50:15,120 --> 01:50:18,479
Speaker 1: much as we can, but even you know that perfect

2001
01:50:19,320 --> 01:50:21,760
Speaker 1: heart shot with an exit wound is going to be

2002
01:50:24,600 --> 01:50:29,240
Speaker 1: messy mess Yeah, and lung shots aren't aren't aren't immediate

2003
01:50:29,280 --> 01:50:32,200
Speaker 1: death either. Yeah. I mean I think you should you know,

2004
01:50:32,240 --> 01:50:34,519
Speaker 1: And I've seen this is like a growing thing on

2005
01:50:34,560 --> 01:50:36,400
Speaker 1: social media. Like I trained so I can be I

2006
01:50:36,439 --> 01:50:39,280
Speaker 1: want to be perfect. That's my My goal is to

2007
01:50:39,320 --> 01:50:41,479
Speaker 1: shoot an elk and have it, you know, shoot a duck,

2008
01:50:41,520 --> 01:50:44,519
Speaker 1: shoot whatever I train. But I'll tell you right now,

2009
01:50:44,600 --> 01:50:48,479
Speaker 1: and to being fully transparent, the times that I've failed

2010
01:50:48,479 --> 01:50:52,840
Speaker 1: in the woods have almost always gone back to my

2011
01:50:52,960 --> 01:50:55,720
Speaker 1: lack of preparation with the gear and my lack of

2012
01:50:55,760 --> 01:50:59,280
Speaker 1: practice with that same gear. And it doesn't mean just

2013
01:50:59,360 --> 01:51:02,719
Speaker 1: the bow or the right full It means everything, all

2014
01:51:02,760 --> 01:51:06,280
Speaker 1: of it um, whether it's not having your range find

2015
01:51:06,360 --> 01:51:08,559
Speaker 1: or attached to your bino harness so you can drop

2016
01:51:08,600 --> 01:51:11,360
Speaker 1: it when you need to draw, or a million different

2017
01:51:11,360 --> 01:51:14,200
Speaker 1: things that go that go into it. Me personally, I

2018
01:51:14,240 --> 01:51:17,160
Speaker 1: can just say that almost every time something has happened

2019
01:51:18,479 --> 01:51:22,479
Speaker 1: that I would say was was poor on the animal's end.

2020
01:51:22,560 --> 01:51:26,360
Speaker 1: I could go back to my own preparation on many levels,

2021
01:51:26,960 --> 01:51:32,080
Speaker 1: um and fix something and fix something, So you know,

2022
01:51:33,120 --> 01:51:35,200
Speaker 1: I take I know you do too, Yanni, I know

2023
01:51:35,240 --> 01:51:37,240
Speaker 1: you do too, same because you your work with the

2024
01:51:37,240 --> 01:51:38,880
Speaker 1: bridge or bowman and do a bunch of shoots in

2025
01:51:38,880 --> 01:51:41,519
Speaker 1: the summertime. We all love going to the Total Archery Challenge.

2026
01:51:41,560 --> 01:51:44,400
Speaker 1: And I've got a big, big elk in my backyard

2027
01:51:44,439 --> 01:51:47,720
Speaker 1: and Yanni's got targets in his backyard, and so we

2028
01:51:47,840 --> 01:51:50,840
Speaker 1: definitely do that and take pride in that, um. And

2029
01:51:50,880 --> 01:51:57,240
Speaker 1: that's an important part of what you can control. So yeah, yeah,

2030
01:51:57,280 --> 01:52:00,400
Speaker 1: I think I mean to kind of close out thought

2031
01:52:00,479 --> 01:52:04,360
Speaker 1: for me. I think over the years, I've certainly become

2032
01:52:05,600 --> 01:52:08,400
Speaker 1: a little sort of like I guess like hardened to

2033
01:52:09,400 --> 01:52:12,840
Speaker 1: the emotions of this the wounded thing. And maybe it's

2034
01:52:12,840 --> 01:52:15,080
Speaker 1: because you know, I just saw a lot of it,

2035
01:52:15,160 --> 01:52:17,519
Speaker 1: you know, guiding, and he's sort of like just become

2036
01:52:17,640 --> 01:52:21,000
Speaker 1: like kind of like it's just like part of the deal, right,

2037
01:52:21,479 --> 01:52:25,519
Speaker 1: And I think, what like what makes me want to

2038
01:52:25,560 --> 01:52:29,360
Speaker 1: do good? It's not always necessarily so the animal dies quickly,

2039
01:52:29,400 --> 01:52:32,719
Speaker 1: but like so that I don't have to go through

2040
01:52:32,760 --> 01:52:37,679
Speaker 1: those emotions, those shitty emotions, and I have success because

2041
01:52:37,720 --> 01:52:39,960
Speaker 1: I liked the meat. I want to eat that meat.

2042
01:52:40,280 --> 01:52:43,760
Speaker 1: But like that's why I'm not. I'm not like trying

2043
01:52:43,760 --> 01:52:47,240
Speaker 1: to be a better hunter necessarily for the animal's sake.

2044
01:52:47,800 --> 01:52:50,880
Speaker 1: It's it's for selfish reasons. And that's because like I

2045
01:52:50,960 --> 01:52:53,960
Speaker 1: want the success and what that equals, whether it's the

2046
01:52:54,040 --> 01:52:56,920
Speaker 1: meat or the picture on the Instagram or and not

2047
01:52:57,040 --> 01:52:59,840
Speaker 1: having to go blood trail and not having to like

2048
01:53:00,360 --> 01:53:02,719
Speaker 1: you know, think about it for two days and whether

2049
01:53:02,800 --> 01:53:06,400
Speaker 1: or not I got the animal. Um, But like that

2050
01:53:06,600 --> 01:53:09,120
Speaker 1: that's what drives me, you know. It's not it's not

2051
01:53:09,200 --> 01:53:11,960
Speaker 1: because like I'm like, oh, I don't want the animal

2052
01:53:12,000 --> 01:53:15,599
Speaker 1: to suffer. The animals gonna suffer anyways, no matter how

2053
01:53:15,640 --> 01:53:20,360
Speaker 1: I kill it, Like you're taking its life. Yeah, I agree,

2054
01:53:21,080 --> 01:53:23,120
Speaker 1: I agree. I think if you appeal all that back. Man,

2055
01:53:23,160 --> 01:53:25,120
Speaker 1: we always talk about like the game like qualities of

2056
01:53:25,200 --> 01:53:27,519
Speaker 1: hunting here and something like you want to win the

2057
01:53:27,560 --> 01:53:30,040
Speaker 1: game at some level, you want to have I have

2058
01:53:30,120 --> 01:53:33,599
Speaker 1: a I always like the best feeling when I kill

2059
01:53:33,640 --> 01:53:37,559
Speaker 1: an animal is the feeling of accomplishment and and however

2060
01:53:37,640 --> 01:53:40,880
Speaker 1: that comes. Um, i'd much rather have that feeling than

2061
01:53:40,920 --> 01:53:43,160
Speaker 1: the feeling Sam had or or I've had in the past,

2062
01:53:43,280 --> 01:53:47,720
Speaker 1: or or whatever. Um so complicated. But I agree with

2063
01:53:47,720 --> 01:53:50,240
Speaker 1: you the Janni, I think it it would be false

2064
01:53:50,320 --> 01:53:52,519
Speaker 1: to say, like I all of a sudden start caring

2065
01:53:52,520 --> 01:53:54,360
Speaker 1: only about the animal when I'm about to kill it.

2066
01:53:54,400 --> 01:53:57,439
Speaker 1: I mean, that's not that's just not true. Yeah, And Yanni,

2067
01:53:57,680 --> 01:53:59,680
Speaker 1: I think I think something that really stood out to

2068
01:53:59,680 --> 01:54:01,960
Speaker 1: me the air was that, you know, you feel a

2069
01:54:01,960 --> 01:54:05,080
Speaker 1: little hardened to it. And you know, one thing I

2070
01:54:05,160 --> 01:54:06,800
Speaker 1: wanted to bring up as I have a good, really

2071
01:54:06,800 --> 01:54:09,400
Speaker 1: good buddy from college who's been trying to get into

2072
01:54:09,479 --> 01:54:13,439
Speaker 1: hunting the last couple of years, and he a couple

2073
01:54:13,439 --> 01:54:15,400
Speaker 1: of years ago when he was on his first deer

2074
01:54:15,479 --> 01:54:17,600
Speaker 1: hunt and he had he had heard a story of

2075
01:54:18,000 --> 01:54:20,840
Speaker 1: a friend who had wounded a deer and hadn't recovered it.

2076
01:54:20,920 --> 01:54:23,439
Speaker 1: And he he had called me and just wanted to,

2077
01:54:23,520 --> 01:54:26,599
Speaker 1: you know, know my perspective on that, and like, how

2078
01:54:26,720 --> 01:54:30,040
Speaker 1: how could that happen? Like what a tragedy that somebody

2079
01:54:30,200 --> 01:54:32,720
Speaker 1: didn't recover the deer that they put an arrow through.

2080
01:54:33,520 --> 01:54:37,680
Speaker 1: And I told him that nobody wants that. It's sad,

2081
01:54:37,720 --> 01:54:40,040
Speaker 1: but it does happen. That it had happened to me,

2082
01:54:40,120 --> 01:54:42,920
Speaker 1: and that if he hunted long enough, it would happen

2083
01:54:42,960 --> 01:54:47,000
Speaker 1: to him. And so this year I I partially felt

2084
01:54:47,000 --> 01:54:49,720
Speaker 1: like I that I had jinxed him because he drew

2085
01:54:49,760 --> 01:54:52,560
Speaker 1: his first elk tag this year, a spike elk in

2086
01:54:53,120 --> 01:54:59,600
Speaker 1: uh Nevada, and he shot a bowl with his with

2087
01:54:59,680 --> 01:55:01,640
Speaker 1: his ful and hit it like kind of high and

2088
01:55:01,720 --> 01:55:05,560
Speaker 1: back and didn't bleed much. And they looked hard and

2089
01:55:05,600 --> 01:55:09,440
Speaker 1: couldn't find it. And then later that week he shot

2090
01:55:09,480 --> 01:55:11,600
Speaker 1: one and killed it and put his tag on it.

2091
01:55:11,720 --> 01:55:14,040
Speaker 1: And you know, he he had called me wanted to

2092
01:55:14,080 --> 01:55:16,880
Speaker 1: share in his excitement and everything. But but then later

2093
01:55:16,920 --> 01:55:18,920
Speaker 1: in the conversation he told me that he had lost

2094
01:55:18,960 --> 01:55:22,400
Speaker 1: one and was very interested to know my my take

2095
01:55:22,440 --> 01:55:25,040
Speaker 1: on that. And he knew I had killed the tag

2096
01:55:25,280 --> 01:55:29,200
Speaker 1: and killed an elk but not recovered the meat and

2097
01:55:29,240 --> 01:55:31,440
Speaker 1: still punched my tag, and he wanted to know if I,

2098
01:55:31,800 --> 01:55:34,400
Speaker 1: if I felt like he did did the wrong thing there,

2099
01:55:34,480 --> 01:55:39,120
Speaker 1: that he should have walked away without without an elk

2100
01:55:39,200 --> 01:55:41,400
Speaker 1: and had punched his tag and called and called it,

2101
01:55:41,520 --> 01:55:45,600
Speaker 1: called it quits. And I told him, like, man, this

2102
01:55:45,680 --> 01:55:48,800
Speaker 1: is your first big game animal like your freezer has

2103
01:55:48,840 --> 01:55:53,240
Speaker 1: never seen wild game before that tag is meant for

2104
01:55:53,280 --> 01:55:57,440
Speaker 1: you to take an elk comb, and so it's it's

2105
01:55:57,440 --> 01:56:01,560
Speaker 1: a philosophical it's a philisop offical choice at that point

2106
01:56:02,520 --> 01:56:05,360
Speaker 1: that you're allowed to make. And I told him that

2107
01:56:05,360 --> 01:56:08,320
Speaker 1: I did not fault him for not punching his tag

2108
01:56:08,760 --> 01:56:11,800
Speaker 1: and taking one home. He's got he's got three kids

2109
01:56:11,800 --> 01:56:16,000
Speaker 1: and a wife, and no, I mean not like they

2110
01:56:16,040 --> 01:56:17,920
Speaker 1: want for anything, but they don't have wild game in

2111
01:56:17,960 --> 01:56:20,160
Speaker 1: their freezer, and he was so excited to feed them

2112
01:56:20,160 --> 01:56:22,560
Speaker 1: wild game for the first time. And I'm like, you

2113
01:56:22,640 --> 01:56:25,080
Speaker 1: absolutely should have kept hunting. I'm glad you did. I'm

2114
01:56:25,120 --> 01:56:28,320
Speaker 1: glad you brought an elcomb for your family. It's a

2115
01:56:28,320 --> 01:56:30,520
Speaker 1: shame that happened, and you can tell you feel badly

2116
01:56:30,560 --> 01:56:33,280
Speaker 1: about it. You're gonna try not to ever let that

2117
01:56:33,360 --> 01:56:37,480
Speaker 1: happen again. But that that tag is for you to

2118
01:56:37,520 --> 01:56:40,840
Speaker 1: remove an animal from the woods, and if you want to,

2119
01:56:40,880 --> 01:56:43,200
Speaker 1: if you want to cut it up into tatters for

2120
01:56:44,520 --> 01:56:49,000
Speaker 1: your own personal you know, self flagellation for a mistake,

2121
01:56:49,200 --> 01:56:51,720
Speaker 1: You're welcome to do that, but but there's no one

2122
01:56:52,000 --> 01:56:55,400
Speaker 1: forcing you too. There's no legal mandate that you do that.

2123
01:56:55,520 --> 01:56:58,200
Speaker 1: So I told him I supported his decision to keep hunting.

2124
01:56:58,240 --> 01:57:01,000
Speaker 1: I'm glad that he gets to feed his his children

2125
01:57:01,120 --> 01:57:04,920
Speaker 1: elk for the first time. Um. But I told him

2126
01:57:04,960 --> 01:57:09,200
Speaker 1: that my freezers was still half full at that point

2127
01:57:09,240 --> 01:57:12,120
Speaker 1: in time, and that it didn't, you know, change my

2128
01:57:12,200 --> 01:57:16,200
Speaker 1: ability to feed myself wild game throughout the winter to

2129
01:57:16,320 --> 01:57:18,440
Speaker 1: not recover an elk, And I went and killed a

2130
01:57:18,520 --> 01:57:23,080
Speaker 1: moose two weeks three weeks later. Um, and now I

2131
01:57:23,080 --> 01:57:26,560
Speaker 1: have zero freezer space and a couple deer that I

2132
01:57:26,600 --> 01:57:29,240
Speaker 1: want to still kill at this point. So it's always

2133
01:57:29,240 --> 01:57:31,640
Speaker 1: a little bit different calculus. But I think we need

2134
01:57:31,680 --> 01:57:34,480
Speaker 1: to remind people that, you know, while it can be

2135
01:57:34,520 --> 01:57:37,280
Speaker 1: an ethical choice to to punch a tag on an

2136
01:57:37,360 --> 01:57:41,080
Speaker 1: unrecovered and animal, you you don't you don't necessarily have to.

2137
01:57:41,440 --> 01:57:44,680
Speaker 1: And um, you know, I think I think feeding yourself

2138
01:57:44,800 --> 01:57:48,000
Speaker 1: is is the highest goal of hunting and and and

2139
01:57:48,040 --> 01:57:53,840
Speaker 1: should you know, is still a rational consideration in this discussion. Yeah,

2140
01:57:53,920 --> 01:57:56,320
Speaker 1: well I think that's a great place to end it. Um,

2141
01:57:56,520 --> 01:57:59,760
Speaker 1: thank you guys. I mean I do in terms of

2142
01:58:00,040 --> 01:58:03,560
Speaker 1: my concluder, as Steve would say, I just think that

2143
01:58:04,040 --> 01:58:08,000
Speaker 1: hopefully talking about this um at length like this, and

2144
01:58:08,120 --> 01:58:10,400
Speaker 1: hearing other stories and being able to relate to things

2145
01:58:10,400 --> 01:58:12,240
Speaker 1: as Sam just said right there, just being able to

2146
01:58:12,240 --> 01:58:13,920
Speaker 1: have someone to relate to that you feel like you

2147
01:58:13,960 --> 01:58:16,000
Speaker 1: can say, like, this happened to you, this happened to me.

2148
01:58:16,080 --> 01:58:18,840
Speaker 1: What should I do? Um? I think that's important for

2149
01:58:18,840 --> 01:58:21,640
Speaker 1: everybody in there that goes hunting. So we'll keep talking

2150
01:58:21,680 --> 01:58:24,560
Speaker 1: about it at a at a at a clip that's respectable,

2151
01:58:24,600 --> 01:58:26,640
Speaker 1: and when it happens, we'll address it and you'll you'll

2152
01:58:26,640 --> 01:58:29,280
Speaker 1: always hear hear about it from us. Man, let's have

2153
01:58:29,680 --> 01:58:31,640
Speaker 1: let's have Eric hall on and talk to him about

2154
01:58:31,680 --> 01:58:36,000
Speaker 1: I'd like to get his perspective. He's not we will

2155
01:58:36,080 --> 01:58:38,080
Speaker 1: at that point. I probably could call him up right now.

2156
01:58:38,160 --> 01:58:41,800
Speaker 1: He jumped right in. He's been sending me Eric, He's

2157
01:58:41,840 --> 01:58:45,840
Speaker 1: been sending me uh T shirt ideas for the air

2158
01:58:45,960 --> 01:58:49,600
Speaker 1: Call T shirts. So he's into it. He's he's back

2159
01:58:49,600 --> 01:58:51,560
Speaker 1: on the he's back on the TC. He left us

2160
01:58:51,560 --> 01:58:52,920
Speaker 1: for like a couple of weeks and I was wondering

2161
01:58:52,960 --> 01:58:56,120
Speaker 1: where he might have gone. But he's back with Avengece.

2162
01:58:56,480 --> 01:58:58,880
Speaker 1: Don't don't let him go, man, keep him in alive. Well,

2163
01:58:59,080 --> 01:59:04,320
Speaker 1: we need him, we need alright boys, We'll talk to

2164
01:59:04,400 --> 01:59:07,400
Speaker 1: you and I really appreciate it. Um, Thanks for joining us.

2165
01:59:07,800 --> 01:59:20,120
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me. Yeah. Thanks Ben. That's it. That

2166
01:59:20,320 --> 01:59:22,200
Speaker 1: is all another episode in the books. Thank you too,

2167
01:59:22,440 --> 01:59:26,080
Speaker 1: Janice and Sam as always h for diving into that.

2168
01:59:27,160 --> 01:59:29,640
Speaker 1: Be sure to go to our website and read um

2169
01:59:29,680 --> 01:59:32,000
Speaker 1: our good friend Pat Jerkins article. Also you can read

2170
01:59:32,760 --> 01:59:36,080
Speaker 1: Ryan Callahan's article from last year talking about his wounded

2171
01:59:36,080 --> 01:59:39,680
Speaker 1: elk from last season. So and you can, as we

2172
01:59:39,680 --> 01:59:42,360
Speaker 1: said during the show there you can watch the on

2173
01:59:42,480 --> 01:59:47,520
Speaker 1: Netflix the Colorado Muzzloader Hunt with Steve or Heat wounds

2174
01:59:47,840 --> 01:59:49,960
Speaker 1: an Elk. And so there's a lot of examples of

2175
01:59:50,000 --> 01:59:53,040
Speaker 1: that going on. But it's important to talk about be

2176
01:59:53,120 --> 01:59:56,920
Speaker 1: open about. Boy, you know, I wasn't was anything for me.

2177
01:59:56,960 --> 01:59:58,520
Speaker 1: It was a hit to the ego, so I might

2178
01:59:58,560 --> 02:00:01,520
Speaker 1: as well just lay it all out there for um.

2179
02:00:01,560 --> 02:00:04,920
Speaker 1: There's no no use in trying to hide it. Um.

2180
02:00:05,040 --> 02:00:08,840
Speaker 1: And and that's that's something all the way around. But Phil,

2181
02:00:09,040 --> 02:00:10,720
Speaker 1: we've had we had a little gift come to the

2182
02:00:10,760 --> 02:00:13,240
Speaker 1: office the other day. I'm not in the office, so

2183
02:00:13,280 --> 02:00:16,360
Speaker 1: I didn't get mine, but you got something from a

2184
02:00:16,480 --> 02:00:20,040
Speaker 1: very special Yeah. I can only assume you have one too.

2185
02:00:20,080 --> 02:00:22,320
Speaker 1: But I go into the office a couple of times

2186
02:00:22,320 --> 02:00:25,840
Speaker 1: a week to set up the soundboard for some recordings,

2187
02:00:26,160 --> 02:00:30,080
Speaker 1: and on my desk was a shirt um. On the

2188
02:00:30,080 --> 02:00:33,960
Speaker 1: front it says fill the Engineer th HC podcast Bosa Montana.

2189
02:00:34,040 --> 02:00:38,600
Speaker 1: On the back it says, hey Ben Phil Eric call here.

2190
02:00:40,680 --> 02:00:43,480
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna assume that was from our good friend

2191
02:00:43,680 --> 02:00:47,960
Speaker 1: Eric call. Yes. Uh, Eric called the leader of th

2192
02:00:48,240 --> 02:00:53,680
Speaker 1: HC nation, the Czar, the beating heart of the land

2193
02:00:53,680 --> 02:00:55,840
Speaker 1: of th HC. I don't know, like I think I've

2194
02:00:55,920 --> 02:00:58,120
Speaker 1: I've received more gifts from Eric Hall than my own

2195
02:00:58,200 --> 02:01:01,560
Speaker 1: children in my lifetime. Yeah, well, he loves you. He

2196
02:01:01,560 --> 02:01:05,440
Speaker 1: loves you dearly, and that's that's serious. You know, like

2197
02:01:05,640 --> 02:01:07,800
Speaker 1: a lot of podcasts, they'll they'll come up with some

2198
02:01:07,800 --> 02:01:11,680
Speaker 1: some I think relatively lame like ways to describe the

2199
02:01:11,720 --> 02:01:15,520
Speaker 1: people that listen. Um, Like, don't a lot of famous

2200
02:01:15,560 --> 02:01:22,800
Speaker 1: people have, like Taylor Swift like swift ease, Yeah, beliebers, beliebers.

2201
02:01:23,600 --> 02:01:25,920
Speaker 1: We don't have that. So maybe we maybe people can

2202
02:01:25,960 --> 02:01:27,680
Speaker 1: write into th HD at the media dot com. What

2203
02:01:27,720 --> 02:01:30,200
Speaker 1: should we call the listeners? I mean, Eric Hall is

2204
02:01:30,200 --> 02:01:34,840
Speaker 1: the leader, the Graham pumba um of of the cult.

2205
02:01:34,960 --> 02:01:38,960
Speaker 1: Is it a THC cult? I mean I prefer not

2206
02:01:39,040 --> 02:01:42,200
Speaker 1: to attach that word to our listeners. Probably a good idea.

2207
02:01:42,320 --> 02:01:44,400
Speaker 1: Probably good day. Well right in at THC the media

2208
02:01:44,480 --> 02:01:46,640
Speaker 1: dot Com, thank you for the wonderful shirt. I can't

2209
02:01:46,640 --> 02:01:49,840
Speaker 1: wait to see Phil wearing it as a bass layer

2210
02:01:50,120 --> 02:01:53,760
Speaker 1: when he kills his first dear and he's gonna take

2211
02:01:53,760 --> 02:01:56,040
Speaker 1: it off and pose for his first grip and grin

2212
02:01:56,160 --> 02:02:00,560
Speaker 1: with that shirt on Eric call. So we're I think

2213
02:02:00,560 --> 02:02:02,240
Speaker 1: that's a pretty good idea, Phil, that was just off

2214
02:02:02,240 --> 02:02:04,480
Speaker 1: the cuff. But I think if you wear it underneath

2215
02:02:04,560 --> 02:02:07,440
Speaker 1: your first light, um, and then and whip it out

2216
02:02:07,520 --> 02:02:10,160
Speaker 1: for your first grip and grant that you'll posted into

2217
02:02:10,200 --> 02:02:15,240
Speaker 1: social media with like hashtag piles equal smiles or whatever.

2218
02:02:15,680 --> 02:02:21,360
Speaker 1: Um oh yeah, you know me, that'll be that'll it'll

2219
02:02:21,360 --> 02:02:24,560
Speaker 1: probably like in your face animal rats look at this

2220
02:02:25,240 --> 02:02:27,760
Speaker 1: something like that. All right, Well, it was a great

2221
02:02:27,800 --> 02:02:30,560
Speaker 1: episode today. Hopefully it was thoughtful and hopefully we didn't

2222
02:02:30,600 --> 02:02:33,240
Speaker 1: annoy you with the ship stories. There's a moratorium. Don't

2223
02:02:33,240 --> 02:02:35,560
Speaker 1: send them into anymore your band from the thhd calt

2224
02:02:35,640 --> 02:02:38,000
Speaker 1: You can't join the call if you're gonna send email

2225
02:02:38,040 --> 02:02:42,160
Speaker 1: in ship stories. Okay, just get it together, say bye, Phil,

2226
02:02:42,480 --> 02:02:47,040
Speaker 1: good bye, because I can't go a week without doing

2227
02:02:47,360 --> 02:03:01,240
Speaker 1: right drinking in Heaven