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Speaker 1: This is the most traumatic podcast ever and iHeartRadio podcast.

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Speaker 1: Chris Harrison and louren Zema comany from the home office

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Speaker 1: in Austin, Texas. If there is one thing that is

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Speaker 1: the most important factor in a marriage and actually the

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Speaker 1: leading cause of divorce, it may not be what you think.

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Speaker 1: It's not infidelity, it's not religion, it's not family. It's finances.

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Speaker 1: And I know as soon as you hear that word finances,

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Speaker 1: you might want to glaze over and like, oh no.

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Speaker 1: But it is such a huge issue, and it's something

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Speaker 1: that Elz and I have dealt with obviously as we've

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Speaker 1: gotten married and fallen in love and combined our houses

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Speaker 1: and our lives and all of that. It is such

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Speaker 1: an important part of a relationship, and as I said,

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Speaker 1: it causes more breakups than anything else. And so we

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Speaker 1: wanted to bring a very special guest on Today's name

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Speaker 1: is George Campbell. George is an amazing story in and

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Speaker 1: of himself. He went into mass amounts of debt and

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Speaker 1: within ten years has turned himself into a debt free millionaire.

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Speaker 1: And so he's lived the life. He's done all these things,

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Speaker 1: he's made, all the mistakes that hopefully we will keep

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Speaker 1: all of you from making And I wanted to bring

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Speaker 1: him on to talk about the importance of finances and

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Speaker 1: I know it's look, it's something that LZ is intimidated by.

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Speaker 1: She doesn't love it. In our marriage, I definitely carry

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Speaker 1: that load a little more because I'm a bit of

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Speaker 1: a nerd. I enjoy it. I like getting into the numbers.

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Speaker 1: I like talking about our investments. But it's important that

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Speaker 1: even though she doesn't love it, we share that so

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Speaker 1: she's advised on all of it. She understands it. She

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Speaker 1: knows where the bodies are buried, so to speak. So

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Speaker 1: that's why I wanted to bring George on because he

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Speaker 1: has such an amazing way of articulating these important points.

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Speaker 1: And George joins us, now, thank you so much for

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Speaker 1: jumping in. We need your advice, We need your guidance

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Speaker 1: as we begin this not just love journey, this financial journey,

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Speaker 1: because that's also what a marriage is.

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Speaker 2: George absolutely well. I co host The Ramsey Show when

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Speaker 2: we take calls every day of couples that are struggling

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Speaker 2: with money, and a lot of it comes down to communication.

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Speaker 2: They're not aligned with their values and their goals, and

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Speaker 2: so you know, We have very specific advice as to

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Speaker 2: what to do when it comes to money as a couple,

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Speaker 2: but it takes a little bit of swallowing your pride

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Speaker 2: to follow it.

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Speaker 1: It does, And I mean, why why is it? Money

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Speaker 1: is always such an interesting thing? As I've lived my

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Speaker 1: life and I've made money or what have you? You

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Speaker 1: see it changed people, You see the effect it has.

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Speaker 1: It ruins more relationships, families, marriages. What is it about

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Speaker 1: money that's always been such a button issue? A hot

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Speaker 1: button issue.

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Speaker 3: It can divide romantic relationships, sane can divide families.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and it's one of the leading causes of

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Speaker 2: divorce in America today is money fights and money problems.

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Speaker 2: So it's one of the preventative measures we can help

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Speaker 2: people with to go, hey, if we can get aligned

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Speaker 2: on this and not have this be causing strife in

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Speaker 2: your marriage, we can cause you to have success for

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Speaker 2: the next forty years in your marriage. And a lot

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Speaker 2: of it comes down, truthfully to there's past shame, there's baggage,

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Speaker 2: there's money mistakes, there was a loss of trust. At

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Speaker 2: some point we watched mom and dad fight about money,

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Speaker 2: and therefore are either not going to talk about it

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Speaker 2: or we're it's going to be my money and their money,

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Speaker 2: and that way it'll avoid arguments because brushing it under

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Speaker 2: the rug is always the best thing for a marriage.

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Speaker 1: Right exactly.

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Speaker 3: Well, and I think people think more money will lead

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Speaker 3: us to more happiness. And obviously there's an element of

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Speaker 3: just security and feeding your family and everything. But people

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Speaker 3: time money to happiness, and so they get caught up

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Speaker 3: in allowing it to divide the relationship which really would

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Speaker 3: bring them the happiness.

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Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, And the studies now show there's sort of

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Speaker 2: this happiness limit when it comes to money that hey,

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Speaker 2: if you make six figures, that's kind of the lid

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Speaker 2: beyond that money's not going to bring you more happiness.

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Speaker 2: And just yesterday we were taking calls on the Ramsay Show.

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Speaker 2: The audience calls in with their questions. They all had

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Speaker 2: six figure incomes in their marriage and they were all

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Speaker 2: broke and on the verge of divorce. Wow, and that

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Speaker 2: breaks my heart to hear that, And you go, well,

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Speaker 2: more money's not always the issue. Sometimes incomes an issue.

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Speaker 2: The issue that we do find is that debt always

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Speaker 2: puts strain on a marriage. Every single time when one

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Speaker 2: person comes into the marriage with debt. There's automatic resentment

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Speaker 2: sometimes from the other person, going, well, I worked hard to,

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Speaker 2: you know, be debt free when we're married, and now

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Speaker 2: she's bringing in this fifty thousand dollars that's on her

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Speaker 2: to pay off. Well, that's not going to get the

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Speaker 2: marriage on the right foot either.

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Speaker 1: Are you saying? Lauren Sanchez and Jeff Bezos are not

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Speaker 1: going to be happy with that thirty carrot diamond ring

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Speaker 1: she just got in their engagement.

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Speaker 2: You know, I hope that makes her happy, but studies

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Speaker 2: and history will show that it's very ephemeral. Since you're

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Speaker 2: going to be.

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Speaker 3: Last, Can I ask you a question we should have

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Speaker 3: asked you before we got married?

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Speaker 2: Sure, I'll be your your post marriage counsel. Yes, how

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Speaker 2: about that?

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Speaker 3: Well, for everybody else out there, what are I'm putting

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Speaker 3: you on the spot with this? But I would say

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Speaker 3: one to three must questions you ask your partner or

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Speaker 3: discussions that you have before you get married about finances.

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Speaker 3: What do you have to.

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Speaker 2: Get into That's really good And I love that you're

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Speaker 2: thinking about this now, because the key is it's not

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Speaker 2: too late. If you're already married and you're listening, you're like, well,

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Speaker 2: it's too late for me. But one of the main

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Speaker 2: questions you want to ask is what are your values

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Speaker 2: around spending? What are your values around debt? Do you

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Speaker 2: want to live a debt free lifestyle? Because if that's

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Speaker 2: something you value, then it's going to put strain as

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Speaker 2: the other spouse swipes that credit card and takes out

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Speaker 2: that he lock against the mortgage, And so you have

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Speaker 2: to know what are their values on spending, what are

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Speaker 2: their values on debt, and what are their future goals

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Speaker 2: with money. For some people it's yolo. It's just like

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Speaker 2: or I want to go on vacations, I want to

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Speaker 2: have great experiences, I want to retire early. Those are

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Speaker 2: great goals to have, but are they behaving in such

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Speaker 2: a way that their actions reveal they're actually aiming towards

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Speaker 2: that Because to go on those things, we have to

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Speaker 2: save money. We have to save for retirement if we

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Speaker 2: want to retire early, And so those become habits in

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Speaker 2: your mayriae that you have to create together. And budgeting

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Speaker 2: is the key to all of this is putting a

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Speaker 2: plan on paper that we both look at every single month.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, you and I maybe didn't have

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Speaker 1: that specific conversation, but another thing that I think is

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Speaker 1: important is being aligned in the ways you're speaking of.

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Speaker 1: Being together for five years, I got to see your

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Speaker 1: spending habits. You got to see mine. You knew about

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Speaker 1: my investments and vice versa and what that meant to me,

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Speaker 1: and you know, saving for the kids college and all

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Speaker 1: these things. You get to see that firsthand. Maybe that's

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Speaker 1: another reason not to just jump into you meet somebody

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Speaker 1: you get married tomorrow, because those are either conversations you

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Speaker 1: need to have or habits you need to see. What

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Speaker 1: are the biggest mistakes that married couples newly married couples

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Speaker 1: make well.

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Speaker 2: Number one, it's not talking about money because of the shame.

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Speaker 2: Number two, it's hiding things. And so there's there's you know,

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Speaker 2: situations where a spouse goes, oh, I didn't tell them

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Speaker 2: about that debt. And sometimes there's really good intentions and motives.

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Speaker 2: I didn't want to stress him out, or I had

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Speaker 2: it under control. But the problem is marriages are built

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Speaker 2: on trust and communication and transparency, and so what it

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Speaker 2: turns into is you didn't trust me, and that's everything.

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Speaker 2: When once you lose that trust, it is really really

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Speaker 2: hard to rebuild, and so you've got to put everything

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Speaker 2: out of the open up front, even if it hurts.

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Speaker 2: Have the hard conversations early on, because having them later

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Speaker 2: could be detrimental to your marriage. And so you've got

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Speaker 2: to talk about what is the full picture, what's in

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Speaker 2: the bank accounts, what's in the investments, what is all

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Speaker 2: of your debt load? And if you think someone's not

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Speaker 2: going to marry you because of your debt load, they

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Speaker 2: may not have been the person to begin if they're

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Speaker 2: not willing to go on this journey with you, to

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Speaker 2: go all right, we're a team, and we do these

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Speaker 2: debt free screams on our stage every single day here

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Speaker 2: at the Ramsey Show, where couples come and they share

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Speaker 2: their debt free story, and a lot of the times

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Speaker 2: it was when I got married he had all the

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Speaker 2: debt and I had none, or we both came with

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Speaker 2: all of our debt. But the key to them becoming

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Speaker 2: debt free every single time was combining finances and losing

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Speaker 2: those pronouns and going it's we we speak French. Now

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Speaker 2: we we it's our money, it's our debt, and we're

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Speaker 2: going to fight this thing together. And that's the number

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Speaker 2: one reason couples win with money. There's a wealth advantage

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Speaker 2: when you get married, and couples that combine finances are happier,

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Speaker 2: study show, and they make more progress.

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Speaker 3: I am loving hearing you say this, and I'm going

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Speaker 3: to give you a scenario and maybe see if you

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Speaker 3: want to expand on it more. Because this is someone

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Speaker 3: I know. I was just talking to them the other day.

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Speaker 3: They are they've been dating ten years, maybe longer I

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Speaker 3: can't remember. Still not engaged, still not living together. And

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Speaker 3: the reason that they're not buying a home together is

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Speaker 3: because the guy says that the girl doesn't make the

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Speaker 3: same amount as him, so he doesn't want to buy

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Speaker 3: a home with someone who doesn't make the same salary

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Speaker 3: as him. And I am telling her, babe, you gotta

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Speaker 3: be done at this point, like that was my advice,

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Speaker 3: because this is what her job is. Her job is

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Speaker 3: never going to make as much money as him. And

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Speaker 3: it was nuts to me to think, I don't do

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Speaker 3: you encounter this in couples where people think we have

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Speaker 3: to both be equal contributors, because I would think that

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Speaker 3: it's way more often that you can't be contributing in

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Speaker 3: the exists you.

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Speaker 1: Do when there's a huge disparity in income.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, how do you stay equal in that way.

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Speaker 2: Oh absolutely. This is a huge issue, especially for those

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Speaker 2: that are stay at home spouses. It puts them in

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Speaker 2: a very vulnerable state because if they split, well, they

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Speaker 2: haven't worked in a decade or two decades or three decades,

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Speaker 2: and so early on in the marriage we have to say,

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Speaker 2: this is our money. And that's why combining finances is

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Speaker 2: such a huge part of that. I've heard stories where

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Speaker 2: there's a stay at home spouse and my wife is

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Speaker 2: now on maternity leave. If she starts to stay home

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Speaker 2: and she does not provide an income, she's still just

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Speaker 2: as much a part of this family. She gets just

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Speaker 2: as many votes as she did before. And what happens

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Speaker 2: is you become a state at home parent and all

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Speaker 2: of a sudden, one spouse is resentful because they're bringing

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Speaker 2: home the bacon. The other spouse is resentful because they're

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Speaker 2: doing the real work at home of raising these kids,

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Speaker 2: you know, stressed out of their mind. And so what

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Speaker 2: you need to do is go, let's go listen. It

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Speaker 2: doesn't matter if you're bringing an income or not. We're

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Speaker 2: a team and all of this income is our money.

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Speaker 2: It's one pool that we pull from to accomplish our

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Speaker 2: financial goals, and don't give your spouse an allowance if

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Speaker 2: they're a state home parent.

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Speaker 1: See that's you just hit on something. We have a

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Speaker 1: couple of friends that they do just that they are,

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Speaker 1: I guess, worried that their spouse spends too much or

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Speaker 1: will spend too much, and they literally get an allowance.

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Speaker 3: Is that a red flag for you?

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Speaker 2: Doesn't that make like a person feel so good about

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Speaker 2: themselves make an allowance from their life partner. That works

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Speaker 2: when you're seven and my dad give you twenty bucks,

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Speaker 2: this mine of them all, But as a grown adult,

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Speaker 2: what does that do to your spirit?

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Speaker 3: I think it's, well, you're hitting the nailance on so

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Speaker 3: many things, but I think it's a red flag when

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Speaker 3: you're not using those our words like you're saying. I

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Speaker 3: wanted to ask you too, what do you think about?

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Speaker 3: Because I'll admit Chris and I like this, Chris, I'm

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Speaker 3: more of a like we're very aware of We're both

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Speaker 3: very aware of where our money is, how much money

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Speaker 3: we have, But day to day Chris handles that stuff

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Speaker 3: more than I do, the paying of the bills and

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Speaker 3: that kind of thing. And you can be honest, is

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Speaker 3: that an issue should I be in on it more

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Speaker 3: or is that division of labor? Okay? What do you

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Speaker 3: recommend for people?

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Speaker 2: Well, that's a great question, and there's always going to

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Speaker 2: be one person who's a little bit more of the

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Speaker 2: nerd versus the free spirit, and the nerd they just

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Speaker 2: like it more and that's okay. But what the free

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Speaker 2: spirit can't do is just check out of the conversation.

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Speaker 2: And so the key is what you guys are doing,

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Speaker 2: You're communicating. There's full transparency. Lauren can look at the

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Speaker 2: bank account at any moment and see what is going

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Speaker 2: on in that bank account and she has just as

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Speaker 2: much of a vote as Chris. It's one percent and

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Speaker 2: one hundred percent. It's not well, Chris is more seventy five,

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Speaker 2: I'm twenty five, and you know, if he wants to

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Speaker 2: do this, he can just do it. We can't have

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Speaker 2: that in a relationship. And that's where the budget is

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Speaker 2: such a helpful tool. It becomes not against. It's not

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Speaker 2: you and me, it's what does the budget say. Because

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Speaker 2: we both agreed that's going to be the bible for

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Speaker 2: how we're going to spend our money this month. And

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Speaker 2: we both agreed. Lauren gets five hundred dollars for nail

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Speaker 2: care and Chris gets one hundred and fifty dollars for

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Speaker 2: haircuts and that's okay. Then if she goes and does that,

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Speaker 2: there's no wait, how much did you spend over here?

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Speaker 2: That's ridiculous. And the problem with separate accounts is there's

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Speaker 2: no transparency. And while you get the sense of I'm

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Speaker 2: an independent person and I get to spend how I

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Speaker 2: want to spend, the problem is that at some point

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Speaker 2: one spouse is going to go, you have how much

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Speaker 2: money saved in that account? We had this goal and

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Speaker 2: we had to pull from this pool, and I didn't

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Speaker 2: know you had all this money over here, or that

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Speaker 2: you spent all this money here, And so what happens

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Speaker 2: is you commit what we call financial infidelity. It's not

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Speaker 2: quite cheating on each other, but BOYD does that hurt

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Speaker 2: the trust in the relationship when you weren't aware of

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Speaker 2: what was going on with the money. So there's always

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Speaker 2: going to be a leader in that side where Chris

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Speaker 2: just loves the numbers and he's going to be entering

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Speaker 2: the transactions in and double checking, but he also needs

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Speaker 2: to be in communication with you on what's going on,

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Speaker 2: and that communication is what creates a great man.

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Speaker 3: I hate the numbers, George, He's like, I don't.

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Speaker 2: Want to look at it. What do you guys use

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Speaker 2: to budget? I'm curious, what do you guys use to

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Speaker 2: make that plan right now?

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Speaker 1: So the main thing that was interesting about our relationship

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Speaker 1: is and a lot of this had to do with

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Speaker 1: the disparity in our age. I'm older, I've been saving

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Speaker 1: longer and investing longer. And so when I met Lauren,

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Speaker 1: I slowly started kind of revealing my life and my budget,

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Speaker 1: my world to her financially speaking.

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Speaker 3: And I will say I also from the beginning when

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Speaker 3: we started dating, I said to him, I need you

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Speaker 3: to know you are more than a decade older than me.

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Speaker 3: You've been in your career more than a decade longer

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Speaker 3: than me. I won't be at the same financial level

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Speaker 3: you're at. I won't be. I mean, I am a

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Speaker 3: hard worker and I want to be successful, but I'm

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Speaker 3: not where you're at. And so I think we had

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Speaker 3: those conversations really sure.

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Speaker 1: And they were important because again I have seen, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's happened in my family where money is just torn

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Speaker 1: people apart, and it's a horrible thing to see. And

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Speaker 1: I wanted Lauren again because I love her and I

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Speaker 1: was bringing her into my life. If I'm bringing my

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Speaker 1: children into your life, I can bring my finances into

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Speaker 1: your life. What's more personal than that. And if you

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Speaker 1: think that your kids are less than the money, then

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Speaker 1: you got some issues. And so being able to reveal

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Speaker 1: that over time show Lauren exactly what was going on.

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Speaker 1: I also find it enjoyable. I like too as we

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Speaker 1: invest in companies and invest in things do it with her.

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Speaker 1: I enjoy that conversation. I enjoy her insight. I find

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Speaker 1: her mind fascinating and it works on a level that

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Speaker 1: mine doesn't work. So having a co CEO and all

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Speaker 1: of this has been brilliant.

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Speaker 3: We don't have a like a budget. You know, we

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Speaker 3: just budgeted. I will say, we just did the wedding.

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Speaker 3: We talked about. This is the number that we want

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Speaker 3: to stay under. And I think we really trust each

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Speaker 3: other because we have the same as And I'm so

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Speaker 3: glad you mentioned values, but we have the same values

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Speaker 3: with the way we approach money, Like I fully trust

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Speaker 3: Chris's decision making choices on this is worth spending more

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Speaker 3: money on, this we should save on and that kind

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Speaker 3: of thing. But we don't sit and like budget it

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Speaker 3: all out. We might after this conversation.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and we're not. But you know, again, you're not

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Speaker 1: a we're not big spenders, you know, like we My

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Speaker 1: goal the way I grew up, which was not with

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Speaker 1: much money at all, was to always live within my

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Speaker 1: means and to live under my means. I just always have.

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Speaker 1: Maybe that's the generation I grew up in, whatever it is,

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Speaker 1: but Lauren kind of lives the same way. And it's

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Speaker 1: you know, when you meet somebody, you fall in love.

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Speaker 1: And I think it's really important when you know, we

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Speaker 1: talk politics, we talk all these things. Finances should be

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Speaker 1: maybe not number one, but maybe number two or three.

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Speaker 1: It's right up there with religion of things that are

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Speaker 1: going to break up a marriage. It really is an

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Speaker 1: important thing to be aligned on.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, kids, religion, money, and the in laws. Those

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Speaker 2: are the four things where if you're not aligned on

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Speaker 2: one of those, you might have a flat tire that

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Speaker 2: could be really harmful. And so you're you guys are

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Speaker 2: spot on with all of this. And a lot of

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Speaker 2: people think, well, I don't make enough money, we don't

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Speaker 2: make enough money to do a budget, or we make

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Speaker 2: so much money that we don't need a budget. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: but what the budget does. It's not for broke people

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Speaker 2: a rich people. All it is is an intentional plan

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Speaker 2: on paper. To where Lauren has this, it's peace of

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Speaker 2: mind and its emotional maturity to go great. I love

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Speaker 2: this plan. Let's execute on this plan because at the

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Speaker 2: end of the day, you can still do really well

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Speaker 2: with money without doing a monthly budget. If you have

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Speaker 2: an amazing income and you live on less than you make,

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Speaker 2: which you guys are doing that in a wonderful way.

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Speaker 2: But I think this plan will help you create new goals.

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Speaker 2: Let's have a generosity goal. How are we going to

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Speaker 2: give this month. Let's have a spending goal. What do

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Speaker 2: we want to do? Maybe we're going to get an

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Speaker 2: investment property. Hey, what if we I didn't know, we

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Speaker 2: could max out this retirement accout on over here and

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Speaker 2: invest in this brokerage account. If we just move some

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Speaker 2: things around in the budget this month or go we

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Speaker 2: have seventeen subscriptions we don't even use. We're being really wasteful, Chris.

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Speaker 2: We could could cut some of these gusts.

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Speaker 1: Everybody in the world now, By the way, so when

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Speaker 1: I was a kid, it was like you you're getting

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Speaker 1: magazines that you're like, I don't even read this magazine.

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Speaker 1: Now it's you know, does anybody watch AMC plus, Like.

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Speaker 2: Who's oh yeah, that one the show Gone beyond the

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Speaker 2: ninety nine sent CD some.

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Speaker 3: George, do you find that in a lot of the

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Speaker 3: couples that you talked to? Is there a commonality of

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Speaker 3: people like me who just hate dealing with it? I

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Speaker 3: know you said one's the nerd and one's the free spirit,

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Speaker 3: but I find myself very overwhelmed by it all, and

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Speaker 3: and so I just am almost like like it scares me.

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Speaker 3: You know, do people feel that way? And why do

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Speaker 3: you think it is to be fearful of stuff like

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Speaker 3: budgeting and finances and that kind of thing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I think talking about what's behind that, what's

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Speaker 2: behind that fear and that aversion and just saying that

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Speaker 2: out loud to your spouse in an honest way is

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Speaker 2: so freeing. And Chris goes, oh my gosh, I had

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Speaker 2: no idea that you had the security gland flaring up.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to add more to our emergency fund and

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Speaker 2: savings so that you feel some more peace of mind.

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Speaker 2: Or again, there's some pass baggage and shame where you go.

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Speaker 2: I didn't realize this, but the way my parents handled

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Speaker 2: money has really had has taken a toll on me.

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Speaker 2: And here's where this is coming from, and here's some

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Speaker 2: things we can do to combat this. So bring your

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Speaker 2: spouse in if they're healthy is only going to help

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Speaker 2: the situation. And the last thing to do is think

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Speaker 2: about this in vision and dreams and goals, because Lauren,

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Speaker 2: you probably have that in mind. That's an exciting thing

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Speaker 2: for you to think about. But the budget is kind

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Speaker 2: of like ugh. When you have the vision in mind,

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Speaker 2: the budget just becomes a way to reverse engineer that goal.

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Speaker 2: If we want to save one hundred thousand dollars, well

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Speaker 2: we have to save close to ten thousand dollars a month,

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Speaker 2: and so we have to have that reflected in our budget.

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Speaker 2: So it's just a reflection of your goals, your unity,

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Speaker 2: and your commitment. And luckily for you, Lauren, we have

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Speaker 2: an app called every Dollar that makes this so easy.

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Speaker 2: You both download the app you're both signed to, and

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Speaker 2: it's all digital right there on your phone, and it

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Speaker 2: looks pretty We're not looking at Excel spreadsheets and notepads.

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Speaker 2: So I'll give you guys we'll email you after the

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Speaker 2: fact a whole year of that, so you guys can

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Speaker 2: try it out and your listeners as well. I can

416
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Speaker 2: go check that out at every dollar dot com. It's

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Speaker 2: every discent tool that my wife and I use.

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Speaker 3: Wow, thank you, George. What a great rebrand. He's turning

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Speaker 3: budgets into dreams and Excel spreadsheets into pretty things. Thank you, George.

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Speaker 2: Yes, that's what I'm here for. Yeah, if I open

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Speaker 2: an Excel spreadsheet, my day is ruined. And so I'm

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Speaker 2: with you, Lauren. I'm not trying to go there, but

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Speaker 2: it really is such a key grew. I didn't grow

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Speaker 2: up with money. I was broke. I was forty thousand

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Speaker 2: dollars in debt. I met my wife here at Ramsey.

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Speaker 2: She was much smarter and much better looking, much better

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Speaker 2: with money. We got married debt free, We bought a house,

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Speaker 2: we paid off the mortgage in twenty six months, and

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Speaker 2: now we get to live our dreams in our early thirties.

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Speaker 2: And it's all because we were aligned with money. We

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Speaker 2: combined finances as soon as we were married, and we

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Speaker 2: have the same goals. What could we do with no

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Speaker 2: payments in our early thirties and so that's my dream

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Speaker 2: for couples out there.

435
00:19:56,840 --> 00:19:59,960
Speaker 1: And we've talked a lot about couples. We have kids.

436
00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:02,800
Speaker 1: One is about to graduate college, the other one is

437
00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:06,000
Speaker 1: sophomore in college. So this is that pivotal time in

438
00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:10,800
Speaker 1: their lives that you know, hit those hurdles and tripped

439
00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:13,200
Speaker 1: on five of them ended up in debt. So many

440
00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:16,480
Speaker 1: kids coming out hitting graduation in the next month, for

441
00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:19,320
Speaker 1: the spring graduation or you know, next summer they're going

442
00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:22,159
Speaker 1: to graduate. They come out, they've had loans, they have

443
00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:25,639
Speaker 1: all this stuff. What is your advice to the younger

444
00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:28,879
Speaker 1: people as they are moving into this world and as parents,

445
00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:32,119
Speaker 1: the things that we could kind of impart to them.

446
00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:34,400
Speaker 2: That's so good. Yeah. In my new book, Breaking Free

447
00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:36,560
Speaker 2: from Broke, I have a whole chapter on student loans

448
00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:39,400
Speaker 2: and how gross this industry is and how so many

449
00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:42,560
Speaker 2: students are just falling into this path because of well

450
00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:45,840
Speaker 2: intentioned parents and guidance counselors and slick college marketing and

451
00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:49,679
Speaker 2: scummy student loan companies. And what's happening is these students

452
00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:52,359
Speaker 2: are signing on the dotted line at seventeen for degree

453
00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:55,440
Speaker 2: they may not even use because mom and dad's reputation

454
00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:58,240
Speaker 2: is writing on them going to college because maybe they're

455
00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:00,879
Speaker 2: the first one, or maybe it's the alma mater. So parents,

456
00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:03,040
Speaker 2: you got to swallow your pride and stop putting your

457
00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:05,920
Speaker 2: kid in shackles because of student loan debt because you

458
00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:08,119
Speaker 2: couldn't afford and didn't plan. So the number one thing

459
00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:11,080
Speaker 2: you need to do is talk to your kids early.

460
00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:14,679
Speaker 2: Have the conversation. If you're broke, tell the kids Mommy

461
00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:17,000
Speaker 2: and Daddy don't have money. So we're gonna figure out

462
00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:19,080
Speaker 2: a plan to get you to college debt free, even

463
00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:21,760
Speaker 2: if that means you're gonna apply for scholarships and grants

464
00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:23,960
Speaker 2: for an hour a night. We're going to work part

465
00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:26,400
Speaker 2: time while we're in college. And on top of that,

466
00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:28,639
Speaker 2: maybe we go to community college for the first year

467
00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:32,520
Speaker 2: or two, knock out some prerequisites before transferring. Take debt

468
00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:34,920
Speaker 2: off the table of the conversation. Say we're not taking

469
00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:37,240
Speaker 2: on debt. How are we going to do this? For

470
00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:39,159
Speaker 2: a lot of kids, college may not even be the

471
00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:40,879
Speaker 2: right next step, And if it is, you got to

472
00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:43,160
Speaker 2: ask yourself, why am I going to the famous name

473
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:45,200
Speaker 2: brand school. Is it because of mom and dad are

474
00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:47,520
Speaker 2: pressuring me? Is it because my best friend's gonna go

475
00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:49,720
Speaker 2: there who I probably won't be friends with six months

476
00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:52,800
Speaker 2: from now. Ask yourself the real why, and stop pressuring

477
00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:55,159
Speaker 2: these seventeen year olds to take on two hundred thousand

478
00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:57,080
Speaker 2: dollars in debt that they're not gonna be able to

479
00:21:57,119 --> 00:21:58,080
Speaker 2: pay off in adulthood.

480
00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:01,000
Speaker 1: The model is broken. The model is severely broken.

481
00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:04,320
Speaker 3: Of I don't think a college education is worth what

482
00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:07,360
Speaker 3: people pay for it anymore, like I exactly. I mean,

483
00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:08,760
Speaker 3: at the end of the day, I think a lot

484
00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:11,720
Speaker 3: of people send their kids to college in large part,

485
00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:14,560
Speaker 3: which I do think is valuable for the experience. It's

486
00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:17,240
Speaker 3: a transition into adulthood. It's living on your own, but

487
00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:19,080
Speaker 3: you still have the safety net of mom and dad.

488
00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:22,200
Speaker 3: But if we're talking about like people could give themselves

489
00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:25,080
Speaker 3: a college education via the internet today, and that's kind

490
00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:27,960
Speaker 3: the problem, you know, But that's great advice, George.

491
00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:30,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, the trade schools, because what.

492
00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:32,879
Speaker 3: They don't teach you is what college in high school

493
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:34,560
Speaker 3: don't teach you is how to handle you.

494
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:37,600
Speaker 2: That's why I wrote this book is everything you never

495
00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:39,800
Speaker 2: learned but wish you did, because so many people are

496
00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:42,880
Speaker 2: falling into these traps because the parents never got financial literacy,

497
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:45,160
Speaker 2: and so they're up there trying to teach their kids

498
00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:47,880
Speaker 2: about how to build credit to go take on more debt,

499
00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:50,640
Speaker 2: which somehow leads them to a great life, and then

500
00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:53,480
Speaker 2: they go The American dream has turned into the American nightmare.

501
00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:54,520
Speaker 2: I was sold a lie.

502
00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:58,359
Speaker 1: What's funny to me is that nobody has said the

503
00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:02,360
Speaker 1: real problem, and that is it's the people giving the loans.

504
00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:07,399
Speaker 1: You cannot charge twenty fifty thirty percent whatever it is

505
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:10,680
Speaker 1: interest rate and bury these kids in debt. How come

506
00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:16,320
Speaker 1: nobody has said, Hi, I'm President Harrison. Here's the deal.

507
00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:19,520
Speaker 1: If you want to be FDIC insured, we bailed you

508
00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:22,680
Speaker 1: out for billions of dollars, you have to give student

509
00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:28,280
Speaker 1: loans at one percent two percent, so they actually serve

510
00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:31,040
Speaker 1: what they're supposed to do. How come we're always talking about, Oh,

511
00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:35,800
Speaker 1: let's forgive student loans. What No, let's change the whole system. Hey,

512
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:37,679
Speaker 1: why is it just the banks are so big that

513
00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:38,760
Speaker 1: we'll never get there?

514
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:43,120
Speaker 2: Chris, you're speaking my language now, and Dave Ramsey would

515
00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:46,119
Speaker 2: wholeheartedly agree. He goes, Hey, I'm not against forgiveness, but

516
00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:48,399
Speaker 2: if we're going to talk about forgiveness, let's stop the

517
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:51,600
Speaker 2: bleeding by shutting down this Federal student loan forgiveness program

518
00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:54,040
Speaker 2: where they got in bed with Sally May. And there's

519
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:57,240
Speaker 2: all these student loan companies lobbying to Congress to make

520
00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:01,439
Speaker 2: student loans impossible to forgive whilst over the consumers and

521
00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:03,560
Speaker 2: college is what do they do. They just raise tuition

522
00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:05,560
Speaker 2: because they know they're just going to take out more

523
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:06,280
Speaker 2: loans to pay for.

524
00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:09,240
Speaker 1: The interest rate goes up, the loans go up. It's

525
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:13,119
Speaker 1: this crazy cycle and nobody, I haven't heard anybody debate

526
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:16,159
Speaker 1: it's not about the loans. Loans are fine, it's just

527
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:18,359
Speaker 1: what we're doing to you. So by the time you

528
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:20,800
Speaker 1: pay off a two hundred thousand dollars loan, you've paid

529
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:24,159
Speaker 1: one point two million dollars and oh, absolutely, you're never

530
00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:25,880
Speaker 1: getting out from under that. Yeah.

531
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:28,280
Speaker 2: We did a whole documentary on this called Borrowed Future,

532
00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:30,200
Speaker 2: and you can go watch it on YouTube for free

533
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:33,080
Speaker 2: with your kids, and it is so eye opening to

534
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:35,880
Speaker 2: see just how gross it is. And we have inspiring

535
00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:38,320
Speaker 2: stories of how people kind of rose above this gross

536
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:41,040
Speaker 2: system and went to college debt free despite the odds,

537
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:44,080
Speaker 2: and so it's very encouraging. But man, when you look

538
00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:45,840
Speaker 2: in it just makes you want to take a shower

539
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:47,959
Speaker 2: after seeing how scummy this industry is.

540
00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:49,720
Speaker 1: It's stunningly predatorial.

541
00:24:49,920 --> 00:25:04,280
Speaker 3: Oh one hundred percent, George, you are so good at

542
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:08,160
Speaker 3: combining relationship advice with financial advice, and as we said,

543
00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:11,120
Speaker 3: finance is one of the biggest issues people face in relationships.

544
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:14,880
Speaker 3: So can I ask you again for I love numbers.

545
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:19,320
Speaker 3: Give me a couple of two to three red flags

546
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:22,480
Speaker 3: to look for when you're first dating someone or getting

547
00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:25,080
Speaker 3: more into the relationship. What are money red flags that

548
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:27,639
Speaker 3: should open your eyes about somebody you're thinking about spending

549
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:28,119
Speaker 3: your life with.

550
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:32,280
Speaker 2: Oh, this is fun, okay. Number one red flag. It's

551
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:34,560
Speaker 2: not that they have debt, because you know, while that

552
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:36,840
Speaker 2: could be a red flag if they're spending addiction or

553
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:38,960
Speaker 2: something like that, it's not that they have debt that's

554
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:40,760
Speaker 2: the red flag. It's the fact that they don't really

555
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 2: care to pay it off. They're okay staying in debt.

556
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:45,639
Speaker 2: They're okay going deeper into debt. That would be a

557
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:48,600
Speaker 2: huge red flag in a potential spouse because this tells

558
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:51,439
Speaker 2: me we're going to have a very stressful marriage. And

559
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:55,199
Speaker 2: whether it's an addiction or they just are okay, is

560
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:57,800
Speaker 2: spending all of their money to lenders every single month?

561
00:25:57,960 --> 00:25:59,480
Speaker 2: That's not going to bode well for your marriage. So

562
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:01,600
Speaker 2: that's red flag number one is they don't really care

563
00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:04,199
Speaker 2: to get out of debt. Red flag number two is

564
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:06,520
Speaker 2: that they're very secretive about money. They don't want to

565
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:10,520
Speaker 2: talk about it. They shut down every time you bring

566
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:13,280
Speaker 2: it up. That's a huge red flag that you need

567
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 2: to get to the bottom of. That may take counseling

568
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 2: from a third party, it may take a financial coach.

569
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:20,560
Speaker 2: But if you can't crack that, I'm going to say

570
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 2: we need to pause on this relationship until we can

571
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:24,840
Speaker 2: get to the bottom of why you can't talk about this.

572
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 2: And number three, they don't have any financial goals. I

573
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:30,640
Speaker 2: want to be married to someone who goes, I want

574
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:32,800
Speaker 2: to get this house, I want to do this investment

575
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:35,440
Speaker 2: over here. You want someone with some drive. Otherwise you're

576
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 2: just stagnant in your marriage and just fall into this

577
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 2: trap of consumerism, just buying more and more crap that

578
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:43,280
Speaker 2: fills up the garage, that makes it into a storage unit,

579
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:45,680
Speaker 2: and all of a sudden you're miserable with a pile

580
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 2: of stuff around you. And so I want someone who

581
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:49,600
Speaker 2: has some drive to go do some things, have some

582
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 2: amazing experiences to give outrageously. Just this morning, before I

583
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,320
Speaker 2: did this podcast, we got to go to waffle House

584
00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 2: and spend ten thousand dollars and two hours and just

585
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:00,920
Speaker 2: bless the people in their cover tabs. Give it to

586
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:03,199
Speaker 2: the white staff a bunch of money. And those are

587
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:04,720
Speaker 2: the kind of goals that my wife and I have

588
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:07,000
Speaker 2: of Man, how cool it be to cover someone's adoption

589
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:09,400
Speaker 2: one day, or buy the single Mama car and go

590
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:12,400
Speaker 2: to NAPA and Austin and have a great time. Those

591
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:13,800
Speaker 2: are the kind of dreams you have to have. And

592
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:16,920
Speaker 2: if your spouse has no dreams, then you're gonna marry

593
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:19,120
Speaker 2: a deadbeat and you're gonna be real resentful later.

594
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 1: It's not easy to spend ten grand at a waffle house.

595
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:22,359
Speaker 1: I've tried.

596
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:23,119
Speaker 3: That's impressive.

597
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 1: That's a lot.

598
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:26,120
Speaker 2: It was shocking. A hundred bucks goes.

599
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 3: Wedding number three waffle house wedding.

600
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:31,160
Speaker 2: It actually sounds exactly go to waffle house on date night, guess.

601
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:33,359
Speaker 1: And by the way, I feel good about this. I

602
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:36,040
Speaker 1: feel like we have checked off these boxes he's talking

603
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:37,000
Speaker 1: about financially.

604
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:41,240
Speaker 3: I thank god we're not getting divorced from this podcast, George. No, look,

605
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:44,160
Speaker 3: I'm taking away major things from you, and those are

606
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 3: so helpful, And it sounds like you are a big

607
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:49,159
Speaker 3: advocate for joint accounts. You are a big advocate of

608
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:51,840
Speaker 3: setting up a budget together. You are an advocate of

609
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:54,800
Speaker 3: being with someone who has the same money values, goals

610
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:57,679
Speaker 3: and dreams that you do. How early on in a

611
00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:00,720
Speaker 3: relationship do you think people should discus us money? When

612
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:02,680
Speaker 3: do you start that discussion when you're dating.

613
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:05,600
Speaker 2: Well, you know, the first date, maybe too soon to

614
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:07,200
Speaker 2: just like open up the bank account and be like,

615
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:09,120
Speaker 2: tell me all of your debt. You want to get

616
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:10,919
Speaker 2: to know someone on the personal side. You don't want

617
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:13,199
Speaker 2: to come across too overbearing, you know, especially if you're

618
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 2: a Ramsey fan like our people, they love talking about money.

619
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,159
Speaker 2: But not everyone is that comfortable, and so you have

620
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:20,560
Speaker 2: to warm up to the conversation. You know, this might

621
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:23,680
Speaker 2: be a few months into the conversation we go, Hey,

622
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:26,160
Speaker 2: what are your values around money? What are the principles

623
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:28,480
Speaker 2: that guide you when it comes to spending? What are

624
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:30,399
Speaker 2: some of the you know you have fun with it?

625
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:32,240
Speaker 2: What are some of the things you know are kind

626
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:33,879
Speaker 2: of your weaknesses when it comes to spending. Oh, I

627
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 2: love to go to Target and I love to shop

628
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 2: on Amazon. Okay, we're starting to wait in the waters.

629
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 2: And as you get into more serious relationship, let's say

630
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:43,239
Speaker 2: six months, maybe close to a year, then you can

631
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:45,960
Speaker 2: start saying like, here's kind of my picture, here's my income,

632
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:48,560
Speaker 2: here's my debt, here's my goal to pay it off,

633
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 2: Here's where I'm at. And as you get to engagement,

634
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:54,040
Speaker 2: that's when we really have to have those harder conversations

635
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:57,000
Speaker 2: and go, are we aligned totally with money? And if not,

636
00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:59,760
Speaker 2: let's get aligned. And we've got this flagship money course

637
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:02,040
Speaker 2: called Financial Peace University. This is the class my wife

638
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 2: and I went through. It's nine lessons and it's so

639
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 2: helpful to just have the same language because a lot

640
00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:08,480
Speaker 2: of people they're not bad people who want to be

641
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 2: bad with money. We were just never taught any better.

642
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:14,480
Speaker 2: So getting that financial literacy is so key. And our

643
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:17,240
Speaker 2: seven baby steps that we teach, which essentially is get

644
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 2: out of debt, have an emergency fund, invest for the future,

645
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 2: and pay off the home early, and build wealth and give.

646
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 2: That's essentially the plan. But to be in alignment on great,

647
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 2: we're heading in that same direction. Well, that's going to

648
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 2: help you grow together instead of growing apart, which is

649
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 2: what a lot of marriages do because they never talk

650
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 2: about money and they never choose to grow in that area.

651
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 1: You just ran over some beautiful repeat those again, like

652
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:41,720
Speaker 1: those are such great cornerstones. If you take nothing away

653
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 1: from this podcast other than that these are the cornerstones

654
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 1: we should all be living by.

655
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:48,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, so these are the seven Ramsey baby steps that

656
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:51,240
Speaker 2: I followed that helped me go from broke to millionaire.

657
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:53,160
Speaker 2: Along with my wife, we have a household net worth

658
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 2: of over a million dollars and we are not rich,

659
00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 2: but over a decade of following this stuff and just

660
00:29:58,280 --> 00:29:59,840
Speaker 2: getting out of debt staying out of debt, it is

661
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 2: to get here. So here's the steps. Baby. Step one

662
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 2: is one thousand dollars starter emergency fund. That's it. This

663
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:07,800
Speaker 2: should take you less than a month to get a

664
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 2: thousand bucks saved. Baby Step two we're attacking all of

665
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:14,240
Speaker 2: the consumer debt other than the house, no mortgage, but

666
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 2: using the debt snowball method. That means we're going to

667
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 2: lay out our debts from smallest to largest balance ignore

668
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 2: the interest rate because right now we're about behavior change

669
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:23,440
Speaker 2: and we want to see that momentum of knocking out

670
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 2: the small debt and small debt, and we're going to

671
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 2: knock out all of our consumer debt. Most people do

672
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:29,920
Speaker 2: this in eighteen to twenty four months, getting intense about it,

673
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 2: cutting expenses, making more. Then we have no debt, we

674
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 2: have no payments. Now Baby step three is to save

675
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:38,920
Speaker 2: an save an emergency fund of three to six months

676
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 2: of expenses. This is what protects us from going back

677
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 2: into debt ever again. And when the car breaks down,

678
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:47,360
Speaker 2: the HVACT goes out, we have the medical bill. We're

679
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:50,360
Speaker 2: not freaked out. The emergency turns into an inconvenience. That's

680
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:53,280
Speaker 2: an amazing financial foundation to build right there, No debt

681
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 2: emergency fund. Now we can move on to baby step four,

682
00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:00,600
Speaker 2: where we invest fifteen percent of our household income to retirement.

683
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 2: So if you make one hundred thousand dollars as a

684
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:05,280
Speaker 2: household income, you want to invest fifteen thousand dollars into

685
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:08,240
Speaker 2: four oh one k's and roth iras or four or

686
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:10,000
Speaker 2: three b's. That's going to set you up for a

687
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:12,480
Speaker 2: future where you can retire with dignity. And then once

688
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:14,800
Speaker 2: we have that in place, fifteen percents going, we start

689
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 2: saving for the kid's college fund to help them avoid

690
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:20,040
Speaker 2: ever going into student loan debt. That might be an

691
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:22,480
Speaker 2: education savings account or a five to twenty nine plan,

692
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:24,600
Speaker 2: and it's going to involve the kid having some skin

693
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:27,040
Speaker 2: in the game with scholarships and grants and working part time.

694
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:29,960
Speaker 2: And once we have college savings in place, we're putting

695
00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 2: some money away there. We're saving for our own retirement.

696
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 2: We have our own mask on first. Then we move

697
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:36,240
Speaker 2: on to baby step six, where we pay off the

698
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:38,760
Speaker 2: home early. And it's this simple. This is the way

699
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:40,640
Speaker 2: we did it. We take all the margin we now

700
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 2: have because we don't have debt and we've got our

701
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 2: income up, and we throw that onto the principal balance

702
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 2: of the mortgage and soon enough, most people following our

703
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 2: plan do this in about seven years, which is amazing.

704
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:54,160
Speaker 2: So think about that, in a span of ten years,

705
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 2: you went from in debt to having no payments in

706
00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 2: the world, including a mortgage. And that leads you to

707
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:01,280
Speaker 2: baby step seven, the final one, which is build wealth

708
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:03,320
Speaker 2: and give, and this is to choose your own adventure

709
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 2: where you go what kind of life do we want

710
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 2: to have. Let's take the whole family on a vacation

711
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:08,880
Speaker 2: to Hawaii. Let's go buy that single mom in the

712
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:12,200
Speaker 2: car and you're gonna retire multi millionaires. And Dave talks

713
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 2: about this in his book Baby Steps Millionaires. So many people,

714
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:18,240
Speaker 2: average people followed this plan and became millionaires just by

715
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 2: following these proven steps.

716
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:22,960
Speaker 1: And I think something that's also a good takeaway here

717
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 1: because I know the massive stress of debt and financial issues.

718
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 1: You feel like you're in this storm that you can't

719
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:38,560
Speaker 1: get out of. And it is the baby steps. This

720
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:42,280
Speaker 1: isn't an overnight cure, like you're not just going to

721
00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 1: fix it tomorrow, but it is these baby steps that

722
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:49,960
Speaker 1: will lead you to in thirty six months, you know,

723
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:53,600
Speaker 1: four years, whatever, five years, you will see the momentum change.

724
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:55,640
Speaker 1: And I think that's key for everybody because it's just

725
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:58,600
Speaker 1: you feel like it's insurmountable. There's nothing I can do.

726
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 1: I'll just keep adding on debt and it is just

727
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:02,440
Speaker 1: piles on and piles on and piles on.

728
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 2: That reminds me of this quote Chris. Most people overestimate

729
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 2: what they can accomplish in a year, but they underestimate

730
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 2: what they can accomplish in a decade. And that's the thing.

731
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 2: People would rather kind of live in mediocrity in their

732
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:17,560
Speaker 2: marriages and their careers and their finances for twenty years

733
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 2: before they wake up and go, we got to fix

734
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:22,520
Speaker 2: this thing. But think about that, in two years you

735
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 2: can totally turn a marriage around. And here's the crazy part.

736
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:26,840
Speaker 2: When people do their debt free screams on our stage

737
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 2: and share their story, so many times they say it

738
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:32,640
Speaker 2: saved our marriage. It brought us closer together for the

739
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:34,840
Speaker 2: first time, we had a goal we were aiming at

740
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:38,000
Speaker 2: together and working together towards that goal, and it brought

741
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:40,440
Speaker 2: us such unity that we've never had before. And so

742
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:43,000
Speaker 2: it's not about being nerdy on the budget. Think about this,

743
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:44,440
Speaker 2: What could that do for our marriage?

744
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:46,880
Speaker 3: It's so true, George. We had a friend who's a

745
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 3: counselor tell us that the best marriages he sees are

746
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 3: marriages where people overcome struggle together, because that's the human experience.

747
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:59,200
Speaker 3: That's getting through something together. It brings you closer to

748
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:02,400
Speaker 3: how of you know, gone through a tough time, accomplished

749
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:05,880
Speaker 3: a goal. You communicate, you learn each other more, your

750
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:08,239
Speaker 3: love is deeper. So I think, I mean, look, I

751
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:09,799
Speaker 3: don't want anybody to be in debt, but if you

752
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 3: can find a way out of that problem, I so

753
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 3: agree that relationships are stronger for it, so I love

754
00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:18,600
Speaker 3: everything that you teach and preach and share. This has

755
00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:20,399
Speaker 3: been such a great interview. Thank you so much.

756
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:23,279
Speaker 1: And by the way, if you need more, there is

757
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:28,000
Speaker 1: Breaking Free from Broke. That's George's book that is perfectly

758
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:30,320
Speaker 1: placed right behind him. Right there. You have the podcast,

759
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:32,480
Speaker 1: and I know you and Dave have an amazing podcast

760
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:35,000
Speaker 1: and it's like the number one or two podcasts in

761
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:37,040
Speaker 1: the world. Right now, what's the podcast?

762
00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 2: So we have The Ramsey Show, and then I also

763
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 2: have one that's kind of in alignment with your with yours, Chris.

764
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:44,439
Speaker 2: We have one called Smart Money Happy Hour with Dave's daughter,

765
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:47,560
Speaker 2: Rachel Cruz and I and it's pop culture, it's money,

766
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:50,239
Speaker 2: it's lighthearted, but we also hit these issues in a

767
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:52,400
Speaker 2: really fun way. So this is a great podcast to

768
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:53,759
Speaker 2: dip your toes in the water. If you're a fan

769
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:56,480
Speaker 2: of this show, Smart Money Happy Hour is the podcast

770
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:58,640
Speaker 2: for you. You can check it out on YouTube and all

771
00:34:58,680 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 2: the places you listen.

772
00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:02,360
Speaker 1: If if you want to step away from this podcast

773
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:04,719
Speaker 1: and go home tonight and have a conversation with your

774
00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:06,640
Speaker 1: spouse and say we need to take that first step,

775
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:09,440
Speaker 1: tell us the app again that we can download and

776
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:10,560
Speaker 1: start that budget.

777
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:12,759
Speaker 2: Yes, you can go to your smartphone and search for

778
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:15,040
Speaker 2: every dollar and it takes a few minutes to get

779
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:17,080
Speaker 2: your budget up and going. You're going to list your income,

780
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:19,160
Speaker 2: and you're going to list your expenses and the goals

781
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:21,479
Speaker 2: to get it to zero, where every single dollar coming

782
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:25,000
Speaker 2: in has a job working for your future instead of

783
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:26,920
Speaker 2: you paying for the past with lenders. We want to

784
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 2: get out of debt. We want to have that emergency fund.

785
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:30,879
Speaker 2: We want to start investing for the future and feel

786
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:34,319
Speaker 2: good about retiring in this crazy economy and freaking out.

787
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:37,280
Speaker 2: Let's focus on what we control, and that's our money,

788
00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:40,400
Speaker 2: our spending. And you got to drop the pronoun I

789
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 2: and his and hers. Let's work together. If you wanted

790
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:45,200
Speaker 2: a roommate, you should have signed up for that, But

791
00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:48,000
Speaker 2: you signed up for a marriage with two imperfect people

792
00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:50,480
Speaker 2: working together to try to make something beautiful.

793
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:52,040
Speaker 3: I love that, Georgie, and I love the way you

794
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:54,880
Speaker 3: advocate that the stay at home parent is working so

795
00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:57,360
Speaker 3: hard because I remember a divorce seeing a divorce attorney

796
00:35:57,400 --> 00:35:59,960
Speaker 3: say on TikTok. She said, I'm scared to say that,

797
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:01,919
Speaker 3: but people have been asking me what the number one

798
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:04,839
Speaker 3: cause of divorces, And she said the number one cause

799
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:07,560
Speaker 3: of divorce is when the working parent and a stay

800
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:11,480
Speaker 3: at home parent don't appreciate and respect each other's days,

801
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:15,399
Speaker 3: and it creates resentment, and it creates animosity. And you're

802
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 3: so right that both jobs are so hard and to

803
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 3: have that understanding and work together and say our is

804
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 3: so critical.

805
00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 1: It's and I love the way you kind of make

806
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 1: it a fun game. Think about the fun of the

807
00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:28,879
Speaker 1: future and getting that number to zero and making it

808
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:31,680
Speaker 1: a bit of a game and doing that together and

809
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 1: playing that game together instead of going against each other.

810
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:38,320
Speaker 3: George, where do you stand on pre nups? Some people

811
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:41,200
Speaker 3: say everybody should have one. Some people say it takes

812
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:43,720
Speaker 3: the romance out of things, that it's not needed.

813
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:47,439
Speaker 2: What do you say, that's a fun one, it takes

814
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:49,759
Speaker 2: the romance out of things? Well, you know, prenups are

815
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:53,800
Speaker 2: one of those situations that don't make sense for everyone,

816
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:57,640
Speaker 2: and so we recommend prenups in case of extreme wealth disparity.

817
00:36:57,960 --> 00:36:59,839
Speaker 2: Let's say one person comes into the marriage and they

818
00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:03,040
Speaker 2: have a million dollar net worth. The other person has

819
00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:05,399
Speaker 2: a negative networth of one hundred thousand dollars because they're

820
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:08,480
Speaker 2: drowning in debt. That might be a situation where you

821
00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:10,560
Speaker 2: want to have that boundary line. But here's the key.

822
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:14,520
Speaker 2: We are not concerned about the spouse necessarily. We're concerned

823
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:17,600
Speaker 2: about crazy family being involved. And so that's where the

824
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:20,439
Speaker 2: boundary line is really important. Is you know, crazy Uncle

825
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 2: Larry's not coming after Chris's money when he knows, okay,

826
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:24,560
Speaker 2: there's a prenup, I'm not going to be able to

827
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:26,920
Speaker 2: start my pizza parlor business I've always wanted to start.

828
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:30,319
Speaker 2: And so people look at prenups as if it's going

829
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:34,080
Speaker 2: to make the relationship work magically. But what happens is

830
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:37,799
Speaker 2: the tough conversations have to be had regardless, and prenups

831
00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:39,840
Speaker 2: may be one piece of that if there is that

832
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:42,279
Speaker 2: big wealth disparity. But the funny thing is the people

833
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 2: that want prenups. The guy's making forty thousand dollars and

834
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:47,200
Speaker 2: she's making thirty five thousand dollars, and he's like, well,

835
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:48,520
Speaker 2: she doesn't make as much money as me, so I

836
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:51,399
Speaker 2: got to protect myself. I'm like, bro, you're broke. There's

837
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:54,319
Speaker 2: no you don't need to worry about this. So, you know,

838
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:56,920
Speaker 2: for people that are making wild money or have for

839
00:37:56,960 --> 00:38:00,399
Speaker 2: a long time, or you know, celebrities, people like that,

840
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:02,839
Speaker 2: there tend to be more prenups involved because their life

841
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:05,440
Speaker 2: is more complicated, and there could be kids involved in

842
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:08,520
Speaker 2: multiple assets. And so it's not a we're one hundred

843
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:11,359
Speaker 2: percent anti, but for the average American, you don't need one,

844
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:14,120
Speaker 2: and it can cause some rift in the relationship where

845
00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:16,799
Speaker 2: the other spouse goes, do you not trust me? And

846
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:18,799
Speaker 2: that's where you need to be in total alignment of

847
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:20,919
Speaker 2: what we're doing, why we're doing it, and the heart

848
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:21,399
Speaker 2: behind it.

849
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:24,200
Speaker 1: George, I have so enjoyed this conversation. I could go

850
00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:26,279
Speaker 1: on for days, and I would love to have you

851
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:28,960
Speaker 1: on again because again, Louren and I obviously dive into

852
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:34,040
Speaker 1: all things relationships, and I so agree with your path,

853
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:35,440
Speaker 1: your guidance, your wisness.

854
00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:38,560
Speaker 3: I feel like we can have everybody dms of questions

855
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:40,320
Speaker 3: you have for George if we have them on again.

856
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:42,200
Speaker 2: In a listener episode.

857
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:43,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I feel like we should do a whole

858
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:46,840
Speaker 3: episode on family money stuff, because like you said, you

859
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:50,080
Speaker 3: have I mean, it is amazing to me. We know

860
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:54,400
Speaker 3: people where money has divided siblings, has divided parents and children.

861
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:57,359
Speaker 3: I mean, think about what even Lisa Marie Presley and

862
00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:00,960
Speaker 3: that family's going through publicly right now. It is so George,

863
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:02,279
Speaker 3: thank you, and we know you have so much more

864
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:04,480
Speaker 3: to share and everybody should check out your podcast.

865
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:06,640
Speaker 2: Oh it's an honor. And you guys made me look

866
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:08,360
Speaker 2: like a real pro with my wife today. This is

867
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:11,000
Speaker 2: the first thing she was like actually jealous of. She's like,

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Speaker 2: you have a really cool job. I was like, I know,

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Speaker 2: thank you for Jelsey and Chris just growing down. So

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Speaker 2: it's an honor. You guys are legends and we're so

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00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:20,360
Speaker 2: so happy to be on with you today.

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Speaker 1: George Campbell, appreciate it continued success and continue budgeting.

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00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:27,839
Speaker 2: Thank you absolutely. Chris, have a good one. Guys, thanks

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00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:28,440
Speaker 2: for listening.

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00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:31,239
Speaker 1: Follow us on Instagram at the most dramatic pod ever,

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00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:33,440
Speaker 1: and make sure to write us a review and leave

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Speaker 1: us five stars. I'll talk to you next time.