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Speaker 1: It's the podcast that it is. This is the podcast

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Speaker 1: that it is, not the one it's not. I'm Robert

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Speaker 1: Evans Behind the Bastards Part two an intro, But are

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Speaker 1: you I'll never do that again? Um, I'm so sorry.

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Speaker 1: I like it. No, I feel like I'm getting all

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Speaker 1: of the treats right now between the appropriate intro and

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Speaker 1: then to see an intro. Would you say you're going

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Speaker 1: to do neither one of these again? No? Never. Next

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Speaker 1: episode I'm going to introduce by just shouting out the

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Speaker 1: name of a famous ethnic cleansing and then uh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's gonna be very bad. But this time you've got

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Speaker 1: a song. Of course. Our guest today in part two

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Speaker 1: of our Population Control episode, as in part one, is

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Speaker 1: Samantha McVeigh of stuff your mom never told you, Samantha,

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Speaker 1: mom never told you stuff mom never told you yet?

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Speaker 1: Know you and my mom specifically, Yeah to how are

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Speaker 1: you doing, Samantha? Has has life changed dratically for you

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Speaker 1: since part one? Well? I did go visit my dog,

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Speaker 1: who I do put her away during recordings because she

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Speaker 1: is a very loud barker. But h yeah, so you

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Speaker 1: know that always makes me a little happier. That's good. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's always good to see dogs. I don't remove Anderson

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Speaker 1: because I have separation anxiety. Yeah, but I feel like

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Speaker 1: Anderson so much better behaved than Peaches. Peaches is just

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Speaker 1: kind of allowed just wait for somebody to get a

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Speaker 1: package delivered. She hates the package delivery pieces, like she's like,

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Speaker 1: is it for me? No? Fuck you? Right? Anderson has

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Speaker 1: that in common with Jeff Bezos. There you go. Wait,

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Speaker 1: is Anderson making just as much money for every package

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Speaker 1: being delivered to two thousand dollars a second son of

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Speaker 1: a bit? Yeah, and she does not share a dime

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Speaker 1: of it. It's very frustrating, very rudy dog I have. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: she has so many jet skis that she can't even use.

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Speaker 1: Got to make that bank? You you do? You? Anderson

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Speaker 1: speaking of making that bank, not at all, speaking of

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Speaker 1: making that bank, speaking of population control. When we left

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Speaker 1: off our long winding story about the Dalkon Shield and

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Speaker 1: the population control movement, we had gotten to Margaret Sanger.

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Speaker 1: Have you heard Does that name ring a bell to you? Samantha? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: of course we have kind of mentioned her previous previous

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Speaker 1: episodes with previous Yeah, yeah, she's you know again kind

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Speaker 1: of seen as the founder of planned parenthood, at least

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Speaker 1: the organizations that became it, and popularizer of the term

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Speaker 1: birth control. And in many ways, Margaret was a bridge

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Speaker 1: between the eugenics movement, which was fundamentally racist, and the

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Speaker 1: population control movement, which was usually racist but not necessarily racist.

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Speaker 1: It's actually a much more complicated kind of terrible. Um.

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Speaker 1: Margaret was not a eugenicist in the Nazi way. She

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Speaker 1: supported birth control access for everybody, including the kind of

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Speaker 1: white people that you kind of assumed she felt were

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Speaker 1: a superior race. She was comfortable talking to fascists. In

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Speaker 1: her nineteen thirty autobiography, she wrote, always, to me, any

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Speaker 1: aroused group was a good group, and therefore I accepted

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Speaker 1: an invitation to talk to the women's branch of the

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Speaker 1: ku Klux Klan at Silver Lake, New Jersey, one of

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Speaker 1: the weirdest experiences I had in lecturing. So she did

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Speaker 1: talk to the KKK. There are pictures that will claim

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Speaker 1: to be her with the KKK. They're not her. Um.

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Speaker 1: There's no picture of that meeting. But she did give

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Speaker 1: a speech to a women's KKK group. UM. And you

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Speaker 1: can find a lot online about Singer's racism. It's a

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Speaker 1: very frustrating subject to research because she definitely was problematic,

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Speaker 1: but also her her status as founding mother of the

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Speaker 1: safe contraception movement in the US has made her the

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Speaker 1: target of a bunch of disingenuous right wingers who want

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Speaker 1: to paint planned parenthood and birth control as part of

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Speaker 1: a racist plot to wipe out black people. And that

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Speaker 1: is not true. It wasn't true of Margaret Sanger, to

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Speaker 1: be honest. Um, she did embark on something called the

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Speaker 1: Negro Project, and that is a not a great thing

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Speaker 1: to call anything. Yeah, but it was not what you

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Speaker 1: might assume it was. It was an effort to spread

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Speaker 1: education and access to birth control in black communities, particularly

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Speaker 1: throughout the South. The reality of the project is complex.

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Speaker 1: Singer and her colleagues did deliberately appeal to white racists

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Speaker 1: in their attempts to get funding for the project. I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna quote from a right up by New York University here, Sanger,

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Speaker 1: Ryan Art, and Sanger secretary Florence Rose drafted a report

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Speaker 1: on birth control and the Negro skillfully using language that

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Speaker 1: appealed to both eugenicists fearful of unchecked black fertility and

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Speaker 1: progressives committed to shepherding African Americans into middle class culture.

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Speaker 1: The reports stated that Negroes present the great problem of

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Speaker 1: the South, as they are the group with the greatest economic,

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Speaker 1: health and social problems, and outlined a practical birth control

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Speaker 1: program geared toward a population characterized as largely illiterate and

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Speaker 1: that still breed carelessly and disastrously, a line borrowed from

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Speaker 1: a June nineteen thirty two Birth Control Review article by W. E. B. Dubois.

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Speaker 1: So again very problematic, also quoting W. B. D b

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Speaker 1: Uh yeah, and it's it was not. Again this is

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Speaker 1: framed modern and modern times by usually like right wing

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Speaker 1: anti birth control people as like evidence of her racism.

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Speaker 1: The Negro Project was very popular with black community leaders

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Speaker 1: at the time, and it would be unfair to frame

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Speaker 1: it as an act of genocide. Sanger wrote repeatedly of

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Speaker 1: the importance of bringing in black doctors, stating at one point,

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Speaker 1: I do not believe that this project should be directed

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Speaker 1: or run by white medical men, which is good if

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Speaker 1: you're going to do a healthcare project like focused on

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Speaker 1: the black community like that, that that shows like she

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Speaker 1: she was not, like she was capable of understanding like

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Speaker 1: what was necessary in order to actually reach people. Yeah yeah, nine.

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Speaker 1: She argued in a letter that black ministers needed to

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Speaker 1: be heavily involved in the project in order to gain

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Speaker 1: the trust of their communities. We do not want word

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Speaker 1: to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population,

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Speaker 1: and the minister is the man who can straighten out

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Speaker 1: that idea if it ever occurs to any of their

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Speaker 1: more rebellious members. Again, it's a problematic language there. But

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Speaker 1: also like, there's no evidence she was actually going in

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Speaker 1: for genocide because she was again doing the same thing

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Speaker 1: with white people. She was a birth control across the

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Speaker 1: board advocate, right, she wanted everyone to have more access

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Speaker 1: to contraceptives. Um, there are people on the right like

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Speaker 1: Denisia Suza who will spread wildly untrue claims about Singer,

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Speaker 1: like that she called black people human weeds and a

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Speaker 1: minis to civilization, and there is no evidence of this.

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Speaker 1: Singer's own legacy contains enough problematic facts without making up lies.

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Speaker 1: She was a eugenicist, and she wrote in nineteen twenty

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Speaker 1: three that birth control does not mean contraception indiscriminately practiced.

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Speaker 1: It means the release and cultivation of the better elements

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Speaker 1: in our society and the gradual suppression, elimination, and eventual

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Speaker 1: extinction of defective stocks, those human weeds who threatened the

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Speaker 1: blooming of the finest flowers of American civilization. So she

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Speaker 1: did call people human weeds, but she wasn't referring to

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Speaker 1: black people. She was referring more to mentally challenged people,

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Speaker 1: more to people with like who are prone to diseases.

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Speaker 1: And that's bad, Like, that's really bad. But she was

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Speaker 1: not like a for exterminating everything but white people. She

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Speaker 1: was for exterminating people she considered unhealthy, or at least

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Speaker 1: exterminating them from the gene pool, which is again bad.

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Speaker 1: But let's be accurate about the kind of bad it is,

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Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, we don't need to make it anymore. Yeah, criminal.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what I would say, because it's not

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Speaker 1: flower either. It's bad. It's already bad. She didn't want

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Speaker 1: to make that humanity better by wiping out black people.

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Speaker 1: She wanted to make black people and white people better

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Speaker 1: by wiping out folks who had what she considered to

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Speaker 1: be like bad qualities through selective breeding. And that's really terrible.

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Speaker 1: Also to classify for herself what those bad qualities are

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Speaker 1: like Yeah, that is bad, but like it's not the

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Speaker 1: kind of bad like again, because they tried a friend

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Speaker 1: that Like, no, the progressives always been trying to wipe

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Speaker 1: out black people. Like, that's not what she was doing. Um, information,

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Speaker 1: she was just a bad person. She was she was

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Speaker 1: There's plenty that's bad about her. Yeah, let's be actually

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Speaker 1: honest when we condemn someone. She also stated during another speech,

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Speaker 1: I believe now immediately there should be national sterilization for

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Speaker 1: certain dysgenic types of our population who are being encouraged

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Speaker 1: to breed and would die out where the government not

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Speaker 1: feeding them. Um, you know that's bad, But again it's

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Speaker 1: the kind of like. Part of why they like to

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Speaker 1: try to frame her badness as something different is because

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Speaker 1: if you're accurate about it, you can find a funk

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Speaker 1: load of Republicans who say that the poor should starve, right,

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Speaker 1: like the people who can't work on their own in

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Speaker 1: find Jordan Peterson talking about like how terrifying it is

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Speaker 1: that some people aren't intelligent enough to be in the military,

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Speaker 1: and like say, like, because so what do we do

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Speaker 1: with those people? Like that's a really like what Margaret

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Speaker 1: Sanger was saying back then is still common today. Um,

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Speaker 1: people dress it up a little bit more. I mean

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Speaker 1: it kind of relates to the COVID things like that's fine,

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Speaker 1: they're already they're already problems if they die, so's they're unproductive. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they're unproductive, they're on the government. Actually, Um, yeah, she

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Speaker 1: just she was bad. She just was not the kind

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Speaker 1: of bad people liked SUSA like to paint her as.

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Speaker 1: And in fact, a lot of progressive black leaders at

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Speaker 1: the time liked Margaret Sanger and what she was trying

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Speaker 1: to do. Uh. In one nine letter to Dr C. J.

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Speaker 1: Gamble of Procter and Gamble fame, she urged him to

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Speaker 1: get over his resistance to hiring a full time negro physician,

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Speaker 1: as quote, the colored negroes can get closer to their

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Speaker 1: own members and more or less lay their cards on

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Speaker 1: the table, which means they're ignorant, superstitions and doubt. Um.

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Speaker 1: And again she's also she's number one saying that black

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Speaker 1: people are ignorant and superstitious, which is bad, but also

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Speaker 1: saying that like, no, you get educated black people to

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Speaker 1: talk to them about birth control. So again, she's a

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Speaker 1: problematic person, but not what do SUSA likes to paint

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Speaker 1: her as. She was very paternalistic in her dealings with

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Speaker 1: black people. Obviously that is extremely clear for reading anything

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Speaker 1: about her um, But her own letters and correspondence don't

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Speaker 1: show she wanted to eliminate groups of people, um other

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Speaker 1: than like she wanted to eliminate groups of people, I guess,

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Speaker 1: but not that the way that is portrayed um. In

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Speaker 1: she wrote that quote, the Negro race has reached a

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Speaker 1: place in history when every possible effort should be made

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Speaker 1: to have every Negro child count as a valuable contribution

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Speaker 1: to the future of America. Negro parents, like all parents,

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Speaker 1: must create the next generation from strength, not from weakness,

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Speaker 1: from health, not from despair. See it's complicated here, especially

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Speaker 1: since one of the things historians who are honest will

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Speaker 1: point out is that if you're judging people by the

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Speaker 1: standards of the time, Margaret Sanger was woke for her

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Speaker 1: period of time. Like she she had enlightened views on

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Speaker 1: race relations for the time, right, Yeah, and she got

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Speaker 1: some kind of equality and understanding that the the way

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Speaker 1: to talk to people is not by telling them what

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Speaker 1: to do, but to actually include the I guess, yeah,

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Speaker 1: exactly exactly, to include them and to include their community,

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Speaker 1: and to like yeah, again, everything is bad back there.

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Speaker 1: It's still bad now. It was even worse than I

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Speaker 1: guess in that standard and that time standards, she was

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Speaker 1: seen as progressive, that leer as again like the eighties

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Speaker 1: when they stopped saying yeah things as well. Yeah, she

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Speaker 1: was better on race relations than most white people of

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Speaker 1: her social class in that time. Um, because her actual

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Speaker 1: thing wasn't race as much as it was eliminating people

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Speaker 1: she thought weren't intelligent enough, people who were poor and

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Speaker 1: thus unintelligent, Like that was the kind of people that

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Speaker 1: Margaret Sanger wanted to wipe out. Um, yeah, he just wanted,

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Speaker 1: you know, because to kill all of a certain other groups.

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Speaker 1: It's fine, fine, Yeah, it's it's fine. Yeah. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: it's yeah. I'm gonna quote now from a write up

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Speaker 1: in the Journal of Past and Present that kind of

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Speaker 1: points out the the actual kind of eugenicist Margaret Singer was.

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Speaker 1: She argued that contraception was not merely a personal choice,

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Speaker 1: but a public good, indeed a pantasa for social problems

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Speaker 1: for the unfit. It was a duty, and Sanger became

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Speaker 1: convinced that states had to intervene when necessary to prevent

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Speaker 1: their propagation. Her movement would thus court government repression to

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Speaker 1: gain visibility and sympathy for the cause of liberating individuals

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Speaker 1: from unwanted birth, while striving to win state support for

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Speaker 1: top down programs to shape populations. Sanger herself felt that

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Speaker 1: she never had a country and instead devoted her life

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Speaker 1: to the movement. For her, birth control was a secular

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Speaker 1: faith that would advance peace between people's by reducing Malthusian

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Speaker 1: pressures and depriving militant nationalists of cannon fodder. So that

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Speaker 1: is interesting to me, um, because that's why she's kind

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Speaker 1: of the founder of the population control movement. And that's

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Speaker 1: where it splits from eugenics, because she's not talking about like,

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Speaker 1: I want the white race to succeed. She's talking about,

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Speaker 1: I want to engineer humanity, and birth control is the

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Speaker 1: way to do that. And I'm you know, she above

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Speaker 1: all else frightened of overpopulation, and particularly overpopulation of poor people, Right,

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Speaker 1: that's kind of her thing. So yeah, in the nineteen

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Speaker 1: thirties and forties, obviously, eugenics was still very big. Various

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Speaker 1: fascist states adopted hardcore racist eugenicist policies. Hitler's policies were

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Speaker 1: based heavily on a different state, and federal policies in

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Speaker 1: the United States that had been named it breeding and

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Speaker 1: immigration restrictions of certain groups of people. Uh Hitler described

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Speaker 1: the invasion of Eastern Europe and its subsequent genocides as

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Speaker 1: the planned control of population movements to restore the numbers

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Speaker 1: and qualities of the Aryan race. Japan's imperial government, on

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Speaker 1: the other hand, set itself to the task of purifying

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Speaker 1: what they called the Yamato race. Now, when all of

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Speaker 1: the dust had settled from World War Two, the horrors

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Speaker 1: of the death camps proved to be the nail in

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Speaker 1: the coffin for eugenics as a worldwide movement. Obviously, remnants

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Speaker 1: of eugenics policies remain in the US for a frightening

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Speaker 1: long time, and one can argue even into today in

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Speaker 1: some ways. But no longer was eugenic thinking something you

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Speaker 1: could advocate openly without drawing nasty comparisons to Nazis. So

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Speaker 1: the Nazis kind of kill eugenics as a respectable movement

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Speaker 1: because of you know, the death caffs. Like people see

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Speaker 1: where that leads. But population control, like this is part

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Speaker 1: of why what's kind of like brilliant about what Sanger

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Speaker 1: and other population control advocates do when they split from

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Speaker 1: the eugenics movement. Population control only gets more popular after

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Speaker 1: World War Two. Margaret Sanger herself even pointed to Nazi

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Speaker 1: extermi nation centers as evidence of the quote widespread devaluation

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Speaker 1: of human lives that was caused when people didn't have

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Speaker 1: birth control. Um like, because basically there were so many

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Speaker 1: useless people that it made everyone's life worth lesson that's

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Speaker 1: what made these these massacres possible. And instead, if we

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Speaker 1: had just sterilized people with quote dysgenic qualities of body

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Speaker 1: and mind, these death camps would never have become a thing.

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Speaker 1: That's the whole reach. Like that's yeahs like you had

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Speaker 1: to play in order to justify why your cause could

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Speaker 1: be better than this bad cause. But because it wasn't happening,

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Speaker 1: it happened. M Yeah, yeah, it's and it's like that's

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Speaker 1: a bad way to explain. It's it's all bad. It's

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Speaker 1: very bad. Um. Yeah. So Sanger and her fellow travelers

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Speaker 1: believed that intelligence was the most important qualities to select

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Speaker 1: forth idiots they felt should be discouraged from breeding. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of problems with this, but the chief

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Speaker 1: one is that dumb and poor were synonyms for people

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Speaker 1: like Margaret Singer, and they always have been. For the

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Speaker 1: population control mo When they talk about wanting to like,

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Speaker 1: you know, stop unintelligent people from breeding, they're talking about

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Speaker 1: poor people, right. What they really mean is uneducated or

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Speaker 1: not educated to my standards. Aldous Huxley cited research that

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Speaker 1: suggested an inverse correlation between intelligence and fertility. Basically, Huxley

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Speaker 1: was pointing out that like intelligent people have less children

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Speaker 1: and he called for a world population policy. And in

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Speaker 1: this Huxley was making the same argument that Mike Judge

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Speaker 1: did in the movie Idiocracy, which is why I find

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Speaker 1: that movie problematic because the whole the fundamental idea like

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Speaker 1: idiocracy is everything Margaret Singer was talking about, if we

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Speaker 1: let dumb people breed, the world will become stupid, which

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Speaker 1: isn't how genetics works. But yeah, it's it's bad. Um,

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Speaker 1: it's frustrated to me, Like the degree to which people

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Speaker 1: like right now is just like idiocracy, and it's like, no,

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Speaker 1: it's not like these people are anyway. Very first, the

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Speaker 1: whole concept of who is an idiot who isn't as

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Speaker 1: a um problematic in itself. Like, yeah, and it's part

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Speaker 1: of you know, honestly, like the fact that there's so

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Speaker 1: many folks who were like you know, quote unquote coastal

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Speaker 1: elites who like to clare folks in the Deep South

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Speaker 1: to be dumb because of like the way they talk

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Speaker 1: or the differences in their education is part of what

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Speaker 1: like has makes those people easier to recruit by folks

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Speaker 1: who are trying to take advantage of them. Um, it's

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Speaker 1: very it's all very frustrating. It's it's very frustrating. But

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Speaker 1: you know what's not frustrating. This is frustrating. It's not

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Speaker 1: time for an ad pivot. I'm just going to keep

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Speaker 1: popping about racism. Yeah, sorry in the late night that

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Speaker 1: that was a little bit of a fake out there

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Speaker 1: and you see that that was good. Okay, what are

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Speaker 1: we doing here? You're like, is there a second part

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Speaker 1: of the segment that I didn't know? Right back into

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Speaker 1: bigot Aldous Huxley. So, in the late nineteen forties and

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Speaker 1: early fifties, thinkers like Huxley began to panic over the

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Speaker 1: thought of a population explosion, which they considered to be

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Speaker 1: an existential threat on the level of a nuclear war

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Speaker 1: because the poorest nations on Earth, the global South, had

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Speaker 1: the highest populations and most rapid rates of population growth.

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Speaker 1: This is where population control advocates focus their efforts. So again,

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Speaker 1: we're not racist. We're not trying to call certain races.

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Speaker 1: But the poor are having the most babies and we

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Speaker 1: want to stop that. And also all of the poor

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Speaker 1: live in these specific countries, and they're not white, right right,

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Speaker 1: It's not about race. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In nineteen fifty eight,

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Speaker 1: Dwight D. Eisenhower called a meeting of his National Security

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Speaker 1: Council to discuss foreign aid. He told them they neglected

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Speaker 1: what he viewed as the biggest threat to their future,

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Speaker 1: even more dire than the Cold War. And I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: quote from historian Matthew Connolly here, who's quoting someone who

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Speaker 1: is in that NSC meeting with Eisenhower. In all our

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Speaker 1: discussions of the problem of underdeveloped countries and the kind

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Speaker 1: of assistance which we could effectively provide them, we had

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Speaker 1: not yet faced up to what was really the most

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Speaker 1: serious problem, namely that of exploding population growths. As far

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Speaker 1: as he could see, continued the President, the only solution

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Speaker 1: to this problem throughout the world was finding an effective

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Speaker 1: two cent contraceptive. Eisenhower thought that something drastic had to

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Speaker 1: be done to solve this problem, though he certainly did

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Speaker 1: not know how to get started on this solution, and

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Speaker 1: he furthermore could not himself get it started. So Eisenhower

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Speaker 1: did form a Presidential Commission on US fourign aid and

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Speaker 1: test them with the goal of finding ways for the

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Speaker 1: US to help poorer nations reduced fertility rates. In an

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Speaker 1: NSC meeting, he confided to his men that overpopulation was

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Speaker 1: quote a constant worry to him and from time to

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Speaker 1: time reduced him to despair. So he is the basics

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Speaker 1: I've been trying to put him in basis for Thanos. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: for this character. Okay, yeah, I'm waving get in now.

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Speaker 1: I will say though, Eisenhower also doesn't think that the

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Speaker 1: president can do anything about this. He thinks that that's

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Speaker 1: like not the job of the federal government to provide contraceptives. Um.

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Speaker 1: So he thinks it's critical and import but he also

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Speaker 1: thinks that like, I can't do this or have the

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Speaker 1: government do this because that would be wrong, which I

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Speaker 1: don't know, it seems weird to me. Um. Yeah. Around

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Speaker 1: the same time, population control advocates had started pushing the

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Speaker 1: u in, which was new at the time, and US

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Speaker 1: government to distribute contraceptives in poor countries as a way

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Speaker 1: to curb birthrates, but Ike refused to consider this, stating

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Speaker 1: I cannot imagine anything more emphatically a subject that is

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Speaker 1: not a proper political or government activity or function or responsibility.

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Speaker 1: Once he left office, Eisenhower became the honorary co chair

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Speaker 1: of the Planned Parenthood Federation of America, right alongside Harry Truman. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I meant she didn't know that Harry Truman and Eisenhower

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Speaker 1: were like chairman of the Plan Parnet. I'm having so

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Speaker 1: many questions right now, like that Republicans used to be

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Speaker 1: very different. I mean again, we talked about this in

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Speaker 1: episode we just recorded. But like Barry Goldwater, who was

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Speaker 1: like seen as the first Trump like was a pro

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Speaker 1: abortion access advocate at the end of his life. So

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Speaker 1: Republicans have really gone off the deep ense recently. But

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Speaker 1: it is worth pointing out how recent they're like antipathy

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Speaker 1: to birth control and stuff is right, I mean, to

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Speaker 1: be fair, the difference today seems to be that they're

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Speaker 1: more worried about, you know, people being born as to

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Speaker 1: whether or not they die later, They're okay, they're dying later.

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Speaker 1: Part now they have always been because Dwight Eisenhower was

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Speaker 1: a big murdering people advocate. Yeah, I mean, and in

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Speaker 1: fairness to most of the people he murdered were Nazis,

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Speaker 1: so like you got to give him some credit, but

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Speaker 1: he killed a lot of people who weren't Nazis. We

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Speaker 1: can talk about the Congo and ship. Yeah, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think that was under him, And like, you know Korea,

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Speaker 1: well that was Truman, I guess. Yeah, yeah, yeah, a

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Speaker 1: lot of the Cold Wars started. Yeah, I mean Eisenhower's

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Speaker 1: complex Korean was under Truman. Um. Yeah, Eisenhower was complicated

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Speaker 1: because he is one of the only presidents, maybe the

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Speaker 1: only whoever like directly did ounce the military industrial complex,

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Speaker 1: and he did it right when it was like starting off.

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Speaker 1: He was like, this is happening, and it's bad and

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Speaker 1: it's going to destroy our entire country if we let it.

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Speaker 1: But also he's who it got started under Um and

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Speaker 1: he let it happen and then kind of on his way,

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh, by the way, I left you

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Speaker 1: all with a big old problem. So I don't know,

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Speaker 1: complicated figure Eisenhower still is one of the best presidents

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Speaker 1: we ever had. But all of our presidents are criminals,

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Speaker 1: so you know, yeah, quotation marks around best. So um yeah.

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Speaker 1: Once he left office, Ike winds up as the honorary

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Speaker 1: co chair of Planned Parenthood, and in this position he

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Speaker 1: turned his focus to lambasting welfare programs, including federally funded

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Speaker 1: birth control, which it just started to be a thing.

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Speaker 1: His issue was that the United States was spending money

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Speaker 1: with one hand to slow up population growth among responsible families,

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Speaker 1: and with the other providing financial incentives for increasing production

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Speaker 1: by the ignorant, feeble minded or lazy. Oh now that's fun,

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Speaker 1: not racial talk at all. No, No, what's fun about

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Speaker 1: that is like, obviously White was not a Nazi because

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Speaker 1: he helped the story of the Nazis, but also feeble

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Speaker 1: minded is almost directly the translation of one of the

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Speaker 1: terms that the Germans used to justify the eugenics programs

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Speaker 1: that turned into the Holocaust, right, you know, uh, useless

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Speaker 1: eaters was a less polite term the Germans had for Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that was so the Holocaust started not with the extermination

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Speaker 1: of the Jews or of other races, but with the

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Speaker 1: extermination of Again, what we're called useless eaters. And this

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Speaker 1: a lot has its roots a lot in so like

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Speaker 1: a million Germans start to death during World War One

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Speaker 1: because the British blockade them in Germany cannot feed itself um,

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Speaker 1: which is like one of the things that it's why

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Speaker 1: Hitler invaded Eastern Europe, why he wanted to get Ukraine

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Speaker 1: in particular, UM. And so one of the things Hitler

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Speaker 1: wanted to do when the Nazi thinkers wanted to do,

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Speaker 1: was get rid of all these quote unquote useless eaters

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Speaker 1: because they were afraid that when Germany was blockaded again

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Speaker 1: in the inevitable next war, these people would use up

426
00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:58,080
Speaker 1: like precious food stores that working people could be And

427
00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:02,840
Speaker 1: so the Holocaust star did with the gassing of um

428
00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:07,320
Speaker 1: physically handicapped people who were seen as again useless eaters.

429
00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:09,520
Speaker 1: Like that's where it got started. Before they gass people

430
00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:14,120
Speaker 1: at a racial level, they were gassing the disabled. So wow,

431
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:18,600
Speaker 1: cool stuff. And again Eisenhower's rhetoric directly mirrors what the

432
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:20,960
Speaker 1: Nazis were saying in the early period of their time

433
00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:26,480
Speaker 1: and power, which is cool, very cool and good. Yeah,

434
00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:31,879
Speaker 1: a delight is a delight, you know what doesn't advocate

435
00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:36,320
Speaker 1: for the extermination of large segments of the population. Uh,

436
00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:41,200
Speaker 1: perhaps the products and services that sponsor this very podcast.

437
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:45,440
Speaker 1: That's true. They do not, they absolutely don't. Every time

438
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:47,280
Speaker 1: we get a new sponsor, we send them an email

439
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:50,200
Speaker 1: that says genocide with a question mark, and they always

440
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:54,040
Speaker 1: respond to no, and then we're good to go. I

441
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:58,560
Speaker 1: felt like, it's like, shrug no, no, we only accept

442
00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:01,320
Speaker 1: a hard no. We are that's one of our lines. Yeah,

443
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:04,719
Speaker 1: that's yeah, that's that's why we are not sponsored by

444
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:07,440
Speaker 1: Procter and Gamble, because they gave us the shrug emoji

445
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:09,520
Speaker 1: and we were like, that's not enough, that's not enough.

446
00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:12,840
Speaker 1: I G. Farben had the same response, which you know,

447
00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:17,280
Speaker 1: shocking from the makers of zion B. Anyway, here's the ads.

448
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:28,240
Speaker 1: Oh we're back. So Dwight D. Eisenhower Again, it was

449
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:31,000
Speaker 1: not a Nazi, but his rhetoric echoed Nazi rhetoric, which

450
00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:34,600
Speaker 1: is a recurring problem for what we call population control

451
00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:37,879
Speaker 1: advocates like Raven Holt, the guy who just say, just

452
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:41,840
Speaker 1: because you're not a Nazi doesn't mean you're not a racist, asshole. Yeah,

453
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:45,720
Speaker 1: the Nazis were mostly the Nazis were mostly destroyed by

454
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:50,920
Speaker 1: other racists, just less racists. Yeah, it was a bunch

455
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:54,080
Speaker 1: of the men who landed at Normandy were like, well,

456
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:55,760
Speaker 1: I don't like the Jews either, but what you're doing

457
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:58,800
Speaker 1: isn't okay like that, Like, let's let's be honest about it, right,

458
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:02,240
Speaker 1: Really you read some of the ship George Patton wrote

459
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 1: about Jewish people while he was beating the Nazis, and

460
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:09,679
Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, he was pretty fucking racist. Um yeah,

461
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:13,480
Speaker 1: so uh yeah, Matthew. Anyway, the point I'm getting to

462
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 1: here is that population control advocates, while not Nazis, often

463
00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:21,480
Speaker 1: said ship that sounded like Nazi rhetoric. Matthew Connelly, great historian, writes, quote,

464
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:25,560
Speaker 1: all population control movements tended to diagnose social and political

465
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:29,639
Speaker 1: problems as pathologies with a biological basis. All shared the

466
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:33,440
Speaker 1: idea that society should reproduce themselves by design, even if

467
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:36,120
Speaker 1: that meant controlling how people disposed of their own bodies.

468
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:38,919
Speaker 1: And all looked at human beings not as individuals, but

469
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:41,960
Speaker 1: as populations which could be shaped through a combined force

470
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:45,719
Speaker 1: of politics and science. Not great thing to look at

471
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:53,960
Speaker 1: human beings as yeah, we're all these things just coming

472
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:58,359
Speaker 1: into a combination of pretty much people are not people

473
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:02,879
Speaker 1: humanity does not exist, and people are just people aren't

474
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:06,040
Speaker 1: people except for me and the people that I and

475
00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:09,040
Speaker 1: sixty years ago the people like me were white. But

476
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:11,640
Speaker 1: now people who aren't white can be people like me

477
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:13,520
Speaker 1: as long as they're the kind of smart that I

478
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:17,000
Speaker 1: recognize as smart. And also they can acknowledge and all

479
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:21,199
Speaker 1: acknowledged that I am the supreme superior form of that

480
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:25,640
Speaker 1: human being. If you can acknowledge that, then yes, then

481
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:29,720
Speaker 1: we can all be white together. Perfect been waiting for

482
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:32,800
Speaker 1: someone to tell me that. Oh my god. Yeah. In

483
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:35,919
Speaker 1: the nineteen sixties, population control advocates began to lobby the

484
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 1: World Bank of the US Agency for International Development us AID,

485
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:42,399
Speaker 1: asking them for birth control programs in the global South.

486
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:44,840
Speaker 1: They held out against this at first, largely out of

487
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:47,359
Speaker 1: fear of the political consequences, mainly because they were scared

488
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:49,680
Speaker 1: they would anger the Catholic Church, which was then is

489
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 1: now very against contraception. UM. Now this started a change

490
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 1: under LBJ, who complained that he was quote not going

491
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 1: to piss away foreign aid in nations where they refus

492
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 1: used to deal with their own population problems. One of

493
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:04,800
Speaker 1: the nice things about l b J is he never

494
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:09,720
Speaker 1: really pulled us punches. I was gonna say, that's fairly direct. Okay, okay,

495
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:13,880
Speaker 1: all right now, near the end of the nineteen sixties,

496
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 1: U s A, which made up more than half of

497
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:18,400
Speaker 1: all foreign aid from the United States, began providing large

498
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:22,359
Speaker 1: scale assistance for birth control around the world in Bolivia, Bangladesh,

499
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:26,000
Speaker 1: South Korea, Pakistan, Thailand, and Tunisia. More than two thirds

500
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:28,800
Speaker 1: of national family planning budget came from foreign aid, maybe

501
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 1: mainly U s A. And again at this point, because

502
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:34,200
Speaker 1: you know, South Korea is today one of the wealthier

503
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:36,720
Speaker 1: nations on the planet. At this point, it's a war

504
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:40,160
Speaker 1: racked country that's like barely getting out of a devastating

505
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:42,800
Speaker 1: conflict like they are. It is considered, in the words

506
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:44,680
Speaker 1: of the white popol time, third world at that point

507
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:47,520
Speaker 1: in time, um, which is why it's it's getting aid

508
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:51,120
Speaker 1: in that way. In nineteen sixty five, Reimert Ravenholt took

509
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:54,639
Speaker 1: over us AIDS Office of Population. Under his auspices, it

510
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 1: would grow from basically nothing to a multibillion dollar international

511
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:01,520
Speaker 1: crusade against overpopulation. Raven Holt was a true believer as

512
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:05,080
Speaker 1: well as profoundly charming and well connected. Thanks to thanks

513
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 1: to this, his office had no oversight whatsoever. He could

514
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 1: spend the money allotted to him by Congress. However he

515
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:14,679
Speaker 1: saw fit. Yeah, that's not a recipe for disaster at all. No,

516
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:17,840
Speaker 1: it's gonna go great. It's gonna be a good story

517
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:22,720
Speaker 1: for Matthew Connelly quote. His preferred strategy was national inundation,

518
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:26,399
Speaker 1: based on the idea that making contraceptives freely available, ideally

519
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:29,920
Speaker 1: at the very doorstep of consumers, could increase usage. Massive

520
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:32,760
Speaker 1: purchasing contracts of as many as a hundred million monthly

521
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:36,199
Speaker 1: pill cycles also ensured that pharmaceutical companies would join in

522
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 1: defending his growing budget and encourage corporate support for his organization.

523
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 1: When some of these US back contraceptives were siphoned off

524
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 1: and resold, raven Holt was unconcerned. This black market constituted

525
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:50,280
Speaker 1: a free distribution network. He also used NGOs to provide

526
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:53,840
Speaker 1: training and sterilization and distribute low cost abortion kits even

527
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:57,080
Speaker 1: where abortion was illegal. Raven holt strategy, according to a

528
00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:00,800
Speaker 1: Population Council officer, was to make abortion so easy to

529
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:03,720
Speaker 1: perform and so widely used that it would be meaningless.

530
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 1: When raven holt superiors tried to remove him, they found

531
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 1: it was all but impossible his supporters were too numerous.

532
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 1: M hm sucks. M hmm. So he said easy accessible,

533
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 1: but not necessarily safe. Would that be exactly? So there's

534
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:22,000
Speaker 1: a lot of what he's doing that's mine obviously, Like

535
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 1: I think everyone should have access to safe and cheap

536
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:29,200
Speaker 1: contraception everywhere in the world. Safe is key and one

537
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:31,320
Speaker 1: of the things that raven Holt is able to do

538
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 1: in order to get as much Because for raven Holt,

539
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:36,920
Speaker 1: it's safe is not as important as numerous. What he

540
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:39,960
Speaker 1: wants is to stop as many babies being born as possible. Yeah,

541
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 1: I'm just imagining he's just sending out packages of hangars.

542
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:47,160
Speaker 1: Yeah he would, Yeah, he would have if he if

543
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:48,760
Speaker 1: he thought that that would have done it. But like

544
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:51,360
Speaker 1: he would have preferred something that's easier to get people

545
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 1: on but may have some of the same consequences as

546
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:57,719
Speaker 1: using a hangar um because people are going to use

547
00:29:57,800 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 1: the hangar, but people might take a pill that has

548
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:03,120
Speaker 1: also a horrible effect of it. Because again, so yeah,

549
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 1: we're gonna get to that. This all brings us back

550
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:08,360
Speaker 1: around to the Dalkon Shield because Reynard Ravenholt, ray to

551
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 1: his buddies, was the man who approved H Robbins that

552
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 1: pharmaceutical company's request for the U. S Government to buy

553
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:16,320
Speaker 1: up all of the unsold millions of Dalkon shields and

554
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:19,320
Speaker 1: sell them in bulk to the global South. Now, I

555
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:22,040
Speaker 1: want you to remember, to save money. Robbins was selling

556
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:25,040
Speaker 1: these shields in massive bulk packages of a thousand each,

557
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:28,480
Speaker 1: and they were unsterilized, sterilized. My favorite part of the

558
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 1: whole thing is, yeah, just basically, yeah, this was very uncommon.

559
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, crap. And the wire hangar isn't an

560
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:43,160
Speaker 1: or isn't a bacterious super highway, so that's good. Yeah.

561
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:48,480
Speaker 1: So obviously selling unsterilized i U d s was very odd.

562
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 1: I U d s were always sold sterile in the

563
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:54,080
Speaker 1: United States. U s A demanded an explanation as to

564
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 1: why Robbins was shipping them unsterilized, and an employee for

565
00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 1: AH Robbins wrote back that the shields were being sold

566
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 1: that way for the purpose of reducing price and thereby

567
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 1: attaining wider use uh and is intended for restricted sale

568
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:08,960
Speaker 1: to family planning support organizations who will limit their distribution

569
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 1: to those countries commonly referred to as less developed. So USA,

570
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 1: it was like it worries us that these are unsterilized.

571
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:17,600
Speaker 1: H Robins says, don't worry. That makes them cheaper and

572
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 1: we're only selling them to poor people. And the response, Okay, cool,

573
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:25,680
Speaker 1: thanks man. Yeah, that's exactly what they said. Yeah, because again, right,

574
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 1: Raven Holts all about national inundation. He just wants as

575
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:31,719
Speaker 1: much contraception out there as possible and like consequences be damned.

576
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:39,320
Speaker 1: So he's fine with this. He's a good guy. Three five,

577
00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 1: that's fine. I think it's rid of someone I don't

578
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:44,480
Speaker 1: think is smart because they don't read the same books

579
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:50,760
Speaker 1: that I read. Then it's all good, great ship right here.

580
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:54,800
Speaker 1: So Robbins explained that medical practitioners in those countries were

581
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:58,760
Speaker 1: expected to sterilize shields by soaking them and disinfectant. Now,

582
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:02,160
Speaker 1: this was again very uncommon. Normally, you just get them

583
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:05,280
Speaker 1: sterilized and you wear sterile gloves and you insert them.

584
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 1: Having people sterilize them introduces a potential for someone to

585
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 1: funk up and not sterilize them properly, which is why

586
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:14,320
Speaker 1: it's not the way you do something like an I U. D.

587
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:16,960
Speaker 1: In a contemporary write up of this, Mother Jones noted

588
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:20,760
Speaker 1: quote in the United States, according to private gynecologists we interviewed.

589
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:23,120
Speaker 1: The insertion of an I U D that had merely

590
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:26,400
Speaker 1: been soaked into disinfectant before use would possibly be grounds

591
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:31,040
Speaker 1: for a malpractice suit. Robbins insists that the sterilization procedure

592
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:34,000
Speaker 1: it recommended was effective, but it is highly likely that

593
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 1: few people ever read the instructions. The company attached only

594
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:40,200
Speaker 1: one set of instructions for each pack of a thousand shields,

595
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:43,520
Speaker 1: and those were printed, and only three languages English, French,

596
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:46,480
Speaker 1: and Spanish. Although the devices were destined for forty two

597
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:51,360
Speaker 1: countries from Ethiopia to Malaysia, we're still only ten inserts

598
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:54,280
Speaker 1: were provided per hundred shields, adding a measurably to the

599
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 1: problem of infection. Oh well, so, in my mind it

600
00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:00,120
Speaker 1: really was like an Ikea level of instructions to it,

601
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 1: where you get brief stick figures and they're like, good luck.

602
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 1: You know, I'll give you. I'll give a keya credit.

603
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:09,400
Speaker 1: They generally, wherever they sell i Kea products, print them

604
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:14,280
Speaker 1: in the language most common in that country. I'm sure. Yeah,

605
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:16,120
Speaker 1: it looks like the foreign language to me, trying to

606
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 1: put mostly nonsense, but also very few people put Ikea

607
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 1: in Ikea furniture inside their bodies. I mean, I feel

608
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 1: like that could be an Ikea furniture like that. Yeah,

609
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 1: at least just say yeah, there'd be a bunch of

610
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:34,720
Speaker 1: extra eyes and d's and g s to the name.

611
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:40,240
Speaker 1: But yeah. So H. Robbins also assured USA that actual

612
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 1: medical professionals weren't needed to insert the dalkon s field

613
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 1: into patients. A lot of these devices were headed to

614
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:49,040
Speaker 1: rural family planning clinics, and the drug company insisted that

615
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 1: staff without medical degrees were more than capable of handling

616
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:54,720
Speaker 1: the job. USA pushed back in this case, too, noting

617
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:56,920
Speaker 1: that in the United States, there's been numerous reports of

618
00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:59,479
Speaker 1: adverse reactions from patients who had taken that who had

619
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 1: had the dalt Un shield inserted by doctors who weren't gynecologists.

620
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 1: If m d s had trouble following the instructions, surely

621
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:09,480
Speaker 1: random aid workers who weren't even doctors in like the

622
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 1: Ethiopian countryside world also make mistakes. So H. Robbins did

623
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:17,800
Speaker 1: with pharmaceutical giants do best. They commissioned a study that

624
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:21,080
Speaker 1: would show exactly what they needed it to show a

625
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:23,400
Speaker 1: study or did they just lie they paid for a

626
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:26,840
Speaker 1: study that showed what they needed. Yeah, and the study

627
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:29,880
Speaker 1: they paid for showed that paramedics could learn to reliably

628
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:33,840
Speaker 1: insert the dalkon shield in a half hour. Oh wait,

629
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:36,200
Speaker 1: of course they said they could just insert it, or

630
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:38,840
Speaker 1: that they could do it correctly and safely learned they

631
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:40,759
Speaker 1: could correctly learn how to do it safely in a

632
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:45,600
Speaker 1: half hour, paramedics. Number one, they paid for this study.

633
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:48,720
Speaker 1: Number two. Most of these aid workers, and again fucking

634
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:54,000
Speaker 1: rural like Ethiopia, are like like aid workers, Like a

635
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:56,400
Speaker 1: lot of them aren't paramedics or any other kind of

636
00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:58,480
Speaker 1: medical professional, but some of them are still putting these

637
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:00,960
Speaker 1: things in people as what we would like to talk

638
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:03,480
Speaker 1: about the fact that the white girl from America who

639
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:09,640
Speaker 1: claimed to be a nurse who killed millions, like many orphans, yea,

640
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:12,759
Speaker 1: many orphans. Yeah, but that just happened recently. I'm sure

641
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:16,160
Speaker 1: that didn't happen back then. No, no, no, well actually yeah,

642
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:18,280
Speaker 1: I mean different things happened back then. It was usually

643
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:20,200
Speaker 1: more of a government thing. I don't know that it

644
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:23,160
Speaker 1: was anyway, we'll get it. I'm just thinking, like, in general,

645
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:25,560
Speaker 1: if you want white people to try to send help,

646
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:28,520
Speaker 1: this was one of those send help moments. Oh yeah,

647
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:30,879
Speaker 1: a ton of babies get killed by this. It's it's

648
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:35,360
Speaker 1: fucking god, I get left with that hurts, keep going yeah,

649
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 1: well you know, um so yeah, h Robbins like pays

650
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 1: for this study and are like, see, you can teach

651
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:42,719
Speaker 1: people to do it in a half hour. We're not

652
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:44,879
Speaker 1: actually going to teach the people we sell these two

653
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:46,400
Speaker 1: to do it. We're just going to give them instructions

654
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:49,600
Speaker 1: they probably can't read. But potentially, if they were paramedics

655
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:51,759
Speaker 1: and had a proper instructions, they could learn how to

656
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:54,560
Speaker 1: do it. And that's enough for USA to give it

657
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:58,520
Speaker 1: and be like hell, yeah, cool, yeah, here's millions of dollars.

658
00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:03,200
Speaker 1: So Ray Ravenholt gave the Dalkon shield his rubber stamp,

659
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:06,600
Speaker 1: and suddenly hundreds of thousands of Dalkon shields, all paid

660
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:08,560
Speaker 1: for by the U. S. Treasury, were out on their

661
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:11,160
Speaker 1: way to forty two different nations. This happened at the

662
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 1: same time that a planned parenthood study revealed pregnancy rates

663
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:17,279
Speaker 1: in excess of six percent from Dalkon shield insertion in

664
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:21,240
Speaker 1: places like Costa Rica and Yugoslavia, in nearly fifteen percent

665
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:25,000
Speaker 1: in one Latin American country. So because they're not being

666
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:28,719
Speaker 1: put in right so again, sometimes the amount of unintended

667
00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:31,759
Speaker 1: pregnancies with dalkon shields in some places like fift because

668
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:33,680
Speaker 1: the people putting them in don't know how to do it.

669
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:36,240
Speaker 1: And you have to remember that we're not just talking

670
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:39,799
Speaker 1: about unintended pregnancies here. Remember the dalkon shield is a

671
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:44,080
Speaker 1: bacterial super highway in the best of conditions, and that's

672
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:48,520
Speaker 1: in when it's sterile, right, Yeah. And patients in these

673
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:51,480
Speaker 1: poorer nations who were receiving unsterile shields and having them

674
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:56,160
Speaker 1: inserted with unsterile applicators suffered from infections, miscarriages, and death

675
00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:58,000
Speaker 1: at vastly higher rates than what was seen in the

676
00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:00,719
Speaker 1: United States. We do not know and will never know

677
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:03,640
Speaker 1: the full toll from this because nobody bothered to take

678
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:06,279
Speaker 1: any sort of notes on it, like nobody gave a

679
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:08,400
Speaker 1: ship about how many people actually got hurt by this

680
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:11,920
Speaker 1: thing in these countries. We do, however, have some specific

681
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:15,239
Speaker 1: stories of individual victims to highlight the horror. For Mother

682
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:18,800
Speaker 1: Jones quote, when Maria Aguirez woke up on the morning

683
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:21,960
Speaker 1: of June ninety seven, she was at first two drenched

684
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:24,120
Speaker 1: with sweat to feel the blood. They had warned her

685
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:25,960
Speaker 1: at the clinic that there might be some bleeding, but

686
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:28,520
Speaker 1: this was more than a period. Her skirt, the worn sheet,

687
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:30,759
Speaker 1: the matt were soaked through more than her. After her

688
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:33,160
Speaker 1: oldest daughter's birth, when the midwife had at one point

689
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:36,120
Speaker 1: simply prayed dimly, Maria must have realized that the baby

690
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:38,400
Speaker 1: was already awakened fussing. He was still fussing an hour

691
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:41,200
Speaker 1: later when Maria's sister, someone by the older children, came

692
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 1: running in. Maria was no longer sweating because she died

693
00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:46,400
Speaker 1: as a result of, in fact, an infection that her

694
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:49,040
Speaker 1: Dalkon shield gave her. Yeah, and I'm wondering if, like

695
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:51,479
Speaker 1: some of these numbers that they say, it's effectives because

696
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:57,279
Speaker 1: they died, Yeah, they were pregnant. That works for Ray Ravenholtz. Yeah, exactly. Yeah,

697
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:02,760
Speaker 1: he stops the pregnantcy. That's all that matters to Ray.

698
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:05,759
Speaker 1: Population control advocates like Ray Ravenholt had been willing to

699
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:08,520
Speaker 1: look the other way at unsterile medical devices implanted by

700
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:11,840
Speaker 1: qualified people. They were not particularly concerned by victims like

701
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:14,879
Speaker 1: Maria Aguires as events by the fact that neither us

702
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:17,959
Speaker 1: AID or any other international organization even tried to track

703
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:20,440
Speaker 1: down all the fatalities and injuries caused by the overseas

704
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:23,480
Speaker 1: importation of the Dalkon shield. The only thing that actually

705
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:26,160
Speaker 1: disturbed them was the evidence that the shield was ineffective

706
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:28,120
Speaker 1: as a birth control method, because it was okay to

707
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 1: endanger the lives of poor children, but it was not

708
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 1: okay to risk them having more kids. We can't have

709
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:37,320
Speaker 1: more kids. You didn't do what we wanted. Damn. Now again,

710
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:39,640
Speaker 1: we don't have any sort of authoritative numbers on the

711
00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:41,719
Speaker 1: number of deaths and injuries as a result of the

712
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:44,840
Speaker 1: millions of Dalkon shields imported to the global South. Author

713
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:47,880
Speaker 1: Morton Mints estimates that quote shield related p I D

714
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:52,400
Speaker 1: pelvic inflammatory infection killed hundreds, possibly thousands of women outside

715
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:54,839
Speaker 1: the United States. If the shield were in a third

716
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:58,200
Speaker 1: world country where there are no doctors, no antibiotics, becomes infected,

717
00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:02,920
Speaker 1: she's going to die. And again, this is the seventies.

718
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:06,280
Speaker 1: Antibiotics are not as common as they are now, especially

719
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:11,560
Speaker 1: in places like Ethiopia. You know, still under Raven Holtz guidance.

720
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:13,760
Speaker 1: The name of the game for us AID was national

721
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:16,200
Speaker 1: inundation and I U D s That worked eight to

722
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:18,359
Speaker 1: nine percent of the time. We're better than bringing more

723
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:21,719
Speaker 1: poor people into the world. As lawsuits against Age Robin

724
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:23,759
Speaker 1: spun up in the United States, the company sent one

725
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:25,759
Speaker 1: of their employees on a tour of Asia to sell

726
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:28,560
Speaker 1: more shields. In every place he stopped, the employee would

727
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:31,120
Speaker 1: be met by the local USA population officer, who would

728
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:33,759
Speaker 1: assemble a group of local physicians for the Robin's employee

729
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:36,840
Speaker 1: to lecture and sell to. When Robbins was finally forced

730
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:39,920
Speaker 1: to discontinue the product in nineteen seventy four, US aid

731
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:42,080
Speaker 1: was left, in the words of a Mother Jones reporter,

732
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:45,480
Speaker 1: holding the bag, or rather the bulk pack, they had

733
00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:48,319
Speaker 1: no choice but to issue an international recall. We don't

734
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:51,120
Speaker 1: know how many women and isolated mountain villages across India

735
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:53,879
Speaker 1: and Guatemala and wherever else actually learned that the thing

736
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:56,600
Speaker 1: in their uterus had been recalled for being dangerously unsafe,

737
00:39:56,760 --> 00:39:59,120
Speaker 1: because again, no one at Age Robbin's for U s

738
00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:01,720
Speaker 1: A cared to find out. It just was not important

739
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:05,839
Speaker 1: to them. The lack of communication, Yeah, already, and then

740
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:07,920
Speaker 1: that's how they did the recall. So I can't did

741
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:10,919
Speaker 1: we talk about whether or not the lifespan how long

742
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:13,959
Speaker 1: that's supposed a shield is supposed to last five years?

743
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:17,920
Speaker 1: Which means yeah. And and removal again, because it's spiked

744
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:21,520
Speaker 1: removal as a nightmare for people to actual surgical procedure.

745
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:24,239
Speaker 1: I'm saying yeah, and people die from that as well.

746
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:27,560
Speaker 1: And again the number but probably thousands, probably a death

747
00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:32,439
Speaker 1: toll of thousands worldwide. The Dalkon Shield was a major

748
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:34,799
Speaker 1: national story in the US, where it killed maybe a

749
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:37,880
Speaker 1: couple of dozen people, but it's spread overseas, funded by

750
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:40,880
Speaker 1: US tax dollars, was not well known. Mother Jones is

751
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:43,160
Speaker 1: the only outlet I have found who actually covered that

752
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:45,600
Speaker 1: part of the story during that time in any kind

753
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:47,400
Speaker 1: of detail, and they deserve a lot of credit for that.

754
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:50,879
Speaker 1: It is an excellent article. A nineteen eight five article

755
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:53,319
Speaker 1: I found in the Washington Post, for example, didn't even

756
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:57,720
Speaker 1: mention that the Dalkon Shield had been sold overseas. Mother Yeah, yeah,

757
00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:01,239
Speaker 1: why why would you care? Therefore? Come? Yeah, they're poor,

758
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:09,320
Speaker 1: they're poor in they're not Ethiopia. Yeah. Mother Jones actually

759
00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:12,359
Speaker 1: interviewed Ray Ravenholt in nineteen seventy nine to ask why

760
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:14,640
Speaker 1: he had given the seal of American goodwill to this

761
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 1: whole bloody endeavor, and the picture they paint of him

762
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:19,840
Speaker 1: is bizarre and not very positive. And I'm going to

763
00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:24,000
Speaker 1: read the description that journalist wrote about meeting ray oh

764
00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:27,239
Speaker 1: No in person. He is a tall, affable Midwesterner with

765
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:29,879
Speaker 1: an engaging smile and a marked inability to sit still

766
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:31,840
Speaker 1: once he warms up to the subject at hand. No,

767
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:34,160
Speaker 1: sooner had we gotten through the introductions than he bounded

768
00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:36,360
Speaker 1: off to one corner of his spacious office and returned

769
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:41,000
Speaker 1: with his latest contraceptive enthusiasm, a plastic guns style laparoscopic

770
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:44,560
Speaker 1: device which, when aimed through the vagina, shoots little plastic

771
00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:48,520
Speaker 1: bands around the fallopian tubes, resulting in permanent sterilization. He

772
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:51,279
Speaker 1: demonstrated by placing one foot up on his chair and

773
00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:54,400
Speaker 1: shooting the bands at his shoelace, only after he completed

774
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 1: the simulated sterilization of his left foot, where we able

775
00:41:57,000 --> 00:42:02,759
Speaker 1: to bring the subject round to the Talcott shield. So

776
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:05,160
Speaker 1: he had this in his office as like a toy.

777
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:09,040
Speaker 1: Just keeps us little like fucking gun thing for wrapping

778
00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:11,680
Speaker 1: up collopian tubes sheets it at his foot to impressive

779
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 1: journalist for real, he's got to be a serial killer.

780
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:19,160
Speaker 1: He's a ten bundy. There's no way we didn't use

781
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:20,759
Speaker 1: this on a woman like hey, hey, I got something

782
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:23,160
Speaker 1: for you. Yeah, tie your hands behind your back. Let

783
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:25,840
Speaker 1: me show you. So you're gonna love this. What's the

784
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:31,040
Speaker 1: fucking Ray raven Holt? Uh so uh? Mother Jones continues,

785
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:34,320
Speaker 1: and this is Ray raven Holt speaking, and they're quoting him. Robbins.

786
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:36,160
Speaker 1: The company didn't know there was any problem with it

787
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:38,560
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy two, he insisted, which is not true.

788
00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:41,160
Speaker 1: When we countered that Ah Robbins had been deluged with

789
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:44,520
Speaker 1: reports of adverse reactions by that time, raven Holt smiled

790
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:48,160
Speaker 1: patiently and explained, you don't really know anything until you

791
00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:50,680
Speaker 1: have a very very large number of people who have

792
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:53,279
Speaker 1: used it. You might have one kind of impression from

793
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:56,560
Speaker 1: ten thousand people, another from a hundred thousand. You might

794
00:42:56,600 --> 00:43:00,520
Speaker 1: need a million ten million before you really know. So

795
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:03,960
Speaker 1: it's not tell everybody's dead. Then you actually you have

796
00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:07,320
Speaker 1: to have a dent rating of because you've got wrong.

797
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:10,319
Speaker 1: If you've given it to ten thousand women and two

798
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:14,200
Speaker 1: thousand of them have horrible, horrible, life altering reactions to it,

799
00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:16,239
Speaker 1: you gotta give it to another ten million before you

800
00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:19,120
Speaker 1: can really tell if it's dangerous. I mean again, it's

801
00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:21,080
Speaker 1: kind of like what we're going through with a pandemic.

802
00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:27,920
Speaker 1: Yeah that bad. Come on, yeah, come in, Yeah, it's fine.

803
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:31,920
Speaker 1: It's only people. That's not a big deal. When pressed,

804
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:35,359
Speaker 1: Ravenholt did eventually agree that us AID had heard some

805
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:38,480
Speaker 1: of the tens of thousands of stories of septic pregnancies, infections,

806
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:41,000
Speaker 1: and miscarriages that had flooded the US media by nineteen

807
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:44,000
Speaker 1: seventy three, but he pivoted immediately from that to leaning

808
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:47,360
Speaker 1: forward with enthusiasm to tell the Mother Jones reporter his

809
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:50,640
Speaker 1: own pet theory about i U D induced pelvic infections.

810
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:54,880
Speaker 1: This is ray women who frequently change sexual partners have

811
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:57,600
Speaker 1: these intercurrent, low grade infections. The i U D can't

812
00:43:57,640 --> 00:44:01,239
Speaker 1: cause an infection. The body tolerates anything at sterile. Wait,

813
00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:03,560
Speaker 1: isn't that the same kind of argument about the rape?

814
00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:08,200
Speaker 1: You know your body rejects, Oh my god, what is happening? Well,

815
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:13,600
Speaker 1: because he knows the Dalkon shields are being sent unsterilized

816
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:19,759
Speaker 1: and that obviously not everybody is going to properly sterilize them. Um,

817
00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:22,920
Speaker 1: and also because the data existed at this point, he

818
00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:25,920
Speaker 1: knows that the Dalkon shield is a magnet for infections

819
00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:30,840
Speaker 1: by design. It's awesome stuff, and when Mother Jones This

820
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:32,880
Speaker 1: is my favorite part, when Mother Jones pointed out to

821
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:35,759
Speaker 1: him that the infections uh that he was blaming on

822
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:38,839
Speaker 1: promiscuity might be caused by the non sterile devices being

823
00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:42,480
Speaker 1: exported by us AID. Raven Holt defended his agency shipping

824
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:45,279
Speaker 1: out unsterile Dalcon shields by pointing out that all the

825
00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:47,000
Speaker 1: other i U d s they shipped out to poor

826
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:54,319
Speaker 1: people were supplied unsterile too. Oh great, that's awesome, good job, bro.

827
00:44:56,360 --> 00:45:02,479
Speaker 1: Uh okay, I love the again, the gymnastics that someone

828
00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:04,080
Speaker 1: has to go through and be like no, no, no,

829
00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:06,480
Speaker 1: no, no no, this is cool. And let me tell you

830
00:45:06,640 --> 00:45:10,200
Speaker 1: it's fine. It's fine, it's fine, it's fine. It's because

831
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:13,480
Speaker 1: we're always this year responsible, right, And you know before

832
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:15,680
Speaker 1: gotten many people called us out. No one really really

833
00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:17,799
Speaker 1: talked about like here, why are they talking about it?

834
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:20,400
Speaker 1: Why are we talking about it? Yeah? Was the problem?

835
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:22,920
Speaker 1: Let me show you my little toy. Yeah, let me

836
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:24,960
Speaker 1: show you my you want you wanted to sterilize my

837
00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:30,160
Speaker 1: foot again one more time? You know who won't sterilize

838
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:35,080
Speaker 1: your foot? Samantha? Oh god, products and services that support

839
00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:39,839
Speaker 1: this podcast. Okay, um, this has gone. Yeah, I don't

840
00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:53,480
Speaker 1: know what I am anymore. Ah, we are back and

841
00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:59,400
Speaker 1: just having a good old time. I'm crossing my legs

842
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:04,320
Speaker 1: and explictly so as sleazy as the justifications Ray raven

843
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:08,439
Speaker 1: Holt gave to Mother Jones were he had to issue them.

844
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:10,920
Speaker 1: By nineteen seventy nine, Dalkon shields were still in use

845
00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:12,880
Speaker 1: around the world, and they were in the bodies of

846
00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:15,759
Speaker 1: more than four hundred and forty thousand people. Five years

847
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:19,000
Speaker 1: after age Robins suspended sales of the device, medical practitioners

848
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:22,160
Speaker 1: in Pakistan, India, and South Africa were still inserting Dalkon

849
00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:28,240
Speaker 1: shields into new patients. It's pretty good stuff, Mother Jones

850
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:30,759
Speaker 1: wrote at the time in nineteen seventy nine. It is

851
00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:33,080
Speaker 1: impossible to know how frequently this is still taking place,

852
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:34,680
Speaker 1: but our own sources have told us of at least

853
00:46:34,719 --> 00:46:36,880
Speaker 1: two cases. In Nairobi, Kenya. On the wall of the

854
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:39,840
Speaker 1: Family Planning Association clinic, there is a poster advertising the

855
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:42,879
Speaker 1: Dalkon shield. In early May nineteen seventy nine, a young

856
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:45,000
Speaker 1: woman patient at this clinic was offered, among other birth

857
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:48,760
Speaker 1: control options, at Dalkon shield. In Ottawa, Canada, Pierre Blaize,

858
00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:51,440
Speaker 1: senior consultant to the Bureau of Medical Devices told us

859
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:54,359
Speaker 1: the shield was being inserted as late as nineteen seventy seven,

860
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:59,840
Speaker 1: two years after he had been withdrawn to the US market. Finally, Yep, yep, yep. Finally,

861
00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:02,360
Speaker 1: neither a I D nor even the FDA would have

862
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:05,120
Speaker 1: any way of stopping H. Robbins from privately dumping its

863
00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:07,440
Speaker 1: own unsold stock of dalco on shields if the company

864
00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:09,239
Speaker 1: was of a mind to do so, and it was.

865
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:12,799
Speaker 1: In a recent interview, Robin's attorney, Franklin Tatum, admitted to

866
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:15,080
Speaker 1: us that his client was still selling the devices through

867
00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:17,640
Speaker 1: the first quarter of nineteen seventy five, even as they

868
00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:20,160
Speaker 1: were being recalled through a I D and allegedly destroyed.

869
00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:23,320
Speaker 1: So he was personally he was still doing it even

870
00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:26,919
Speaker 1: though the company was still selling it, even after they

871
00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:28,960
Speaker 1: like they were not only selling it through a I D.

872
00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:32,200
Speaker 1: They were selling it directly to other poorer nations while

873
00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:34,680
Speaker 1: they were fighting court cases in the US and pulling

874
00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:37,320
Speaker 1: it off of that market. And um, of course nothing

875
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:39,520
Speaker 1: really happened to him. No, why wouldn't. I mean, the

876
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:42,600
Speaker 1: company got destroyed, But the people responsible to THESEUS are

877
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:45,920
Speaker 1: millionaires and their kids are still millionaires and probably funding

878
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:50,239
Speaker 1: Ben Shapiro were someone today, um it self great self,

879
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:56,400
Speaker 1: very good, um just cool shit. So Ray Ravenholt had

880
00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:59,160
Speaker 1: the power and influence to put a stop to most,

881
00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:01,120
Speaker 1: if not all, of this, but he chose not to,

882
00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:04,320
Speaker 1: And the question why is easy to answer. Ray was

883
00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:07,480
Speaker 1: a pretty open dude. In nineteen seventy seven, Ravenhold give

884
00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:09,600
Speaker 1: an interview to the St. Louis Post Dispatch where he

885
00:48:09,640 --> 00:48:14,080
Speaker 1: insisted that population explosions, unless stopped, would lead to revolutions.

886
00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:17,960
Speaker 1: Population control, Ray explained, was necessary in order to maintain

887
00:48:18,239 --> 00:48:21,400
Speaker 1: the normal operation of US commercial interests around the world.

888
00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:24,080
Speaker 1: Without our trying to help these countries with their economic

889
00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:27,080
Speaker 1: and social development, the world would rebel against the strong

890
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:30,520
Speaker 1: US commercial presence. The self interest thing is the compelling

891
00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:36,640
Speaker 1: element self interest. That's really fascinating, honest. I mean, like, yeah,

892
00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:40,600
Speaker 1: ridiculously honest. Um, I just love that it all results

893
00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:43,239
Speaker 1: in women dying, and we gotta golve the women they're

894
00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:46,359
Speaker 1: giving they're they're making babies well, and specifically, what he's

895
00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:51,400
Speaker 1: saying here is we have to sterilize large chunks of

896
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:55,360
Speaker 1: the developing world as they call it, the Third World,

897
00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:58,240
Speaker 1: the Global South. We have to sterilize these poor people

898
00:48:58,719 --> 00:49:03,120
Speaker 1: because otherwise they're going to destroy capitalism like they are going. Yeah,

899
00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:06,200
Speaker 1: the world will rebel against us commercial presence if we

900
00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:10,960
Speaker 1: don't reduce their populations. They're gonna realize that we're sucking

901
00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:13,960
Speaker 1: the yah. Yeah, that we are really screwing them over.

902
00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:15,719
Speaker 1: So this is the best way to kill them, kill

903
00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:19,120
Speaker 1: them all. Yeah. Again, the bad guys generally capitalism in

904
00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:24,520
Speaker 1: the end. So most population control advocates supported a variety

905
00:49:24,560 --> 00:49:28,000
Speaker 1: of methods to achieve their raims. Economic development, healthcare, expanded

906
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:30,839
Speaker 1: women's rights. All of these can reduce family size. Ray

907
00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:35,520
Speaker 1: Ravenholt preferred instead to focus on contraceptives, and only contraceptives.

908
00:49:35,560 --> 00:49:37,920
Speaker 1: Before the Dalkon Shield rose to popularity, he'd done this

909
00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:40,279
Speaker 1: by trying to flood the global South with hormonal birth

910
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:43,000
Speaker 1: control pills. These were sold over the counter in places

911
00:49:43,040 --> 00:49:46,319
Speaker 1: like Bangladesh, with no doctor consultation required and precious little

912
00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:49,920
Speaker 1: information about what the health consequences might be. In Bangladesh,

913
00:49:49,960 --> 00:49:54,440
Speaker 1: this caused what one reporter called a biological disaster. Quote,

914
00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:57,720
Speaker 1: the average Bangladeshi woman weighs ninety two pounds and suffers

915
00:49:57,719 --> 00:50:00,440
Speaker 1: from chronic malnutrition. Even in a hundred and already five

916
00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:02,600
Speaker 1: pound American woman, The pill is known to deplete the

917
00:50:02,600 --> 00:50:06,120
Speaker 1: body's supply of vitamins A, basics D, and folic acid,

918
00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:08,800
Speaker 1: hence the special vitamins sold in the US as supplements

919
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:11,400
Speaker 1: to the pill. Furthermore, no less than nine of the

920
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:14,680
Speaker 1: Bangladeshi women who accepted the pill were breastfeeding. According to

921
00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:18,000
Speaker 1: a study by the International Planned Parenthood Federation, babies nursed

922
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:19,960
Speaker 1: by pill users grew at an average rate that was

923
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:22,200
Speaker 1: only two thirds of that of babies nursed by non

924
00:50:22,239 --> 00:50:25,879
Speaker 1: pill users. Ending world hunger is the most common rationalization

925
00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:29,080
Speaker 1: for the top down approach to population control, but in Bangladesh,

926
00:50:29,160 --> 00:50:32,040
Speaker 1: A I D was creating its own kind of chemically

927
00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:38,920
Speaker 1: induced famine. Motherfucker Jesus Christ, it's pretty bad kidding me.

928
00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:42,000
Speaker 1: So a big part of what's happening here is that

929
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:44,480
Speaker 1: these birth control pills that USA had been handing out

930
00:50:44,520 --> 00:50:48,279
Speaker 1: in Bangladesh had been judged safe for American women, and

931
00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:53,040
Speaker 1: American women have were much better fed, had much better nutrition,

932
00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:55,239
Speaker 1: did not have the same kind of vitamin deficiencies that

933
00:50:55,239 --> 00:50:59,719
Speaker 1: Bangladeshi women did. They were larger like, so obviously the

934
00:50:59,800 --> 00:51:01,960
Speaker 1: same pill that works on them is going to be

935
00:51:02,040 --> 00:51:05,040
Speaker 1: toxic to people who are smaller and who have Yeah,

936
00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:08,759
Speaker 1: it's just it's horrible. Essentially, they had to have supplements

937
00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:12,719
Speaker 1: like that because, of course all that mattered was that

938
00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:16,279
Speaker 1: they weren't having as many babies. That doesn't however, maybe death, sure,

939
00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:20,080
Speaker 1: let's do this whatever. Yeah, And obviously, data in the

940
00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:22,360
Speaker 1: US at this time already showed that high estrogen pills

941
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:25,359
Speaker 1: had more health consequences than low estrogen pills. Um and

942
00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:28,279
Speaker 1: so in the US, birth control pills had switched over

943
00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:30,840
Speaker 1: to low estrogen birth control pills, but that meant there

944
00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:33,200
Speaker 1: were still millions of high estrogen birth control pills that

945
00:51:33,360 --> 00:51:35,760
Speaker 1: like nobody in the U s would buy. So obviously

946
00:51:35,840 --> 00:51:37,640
Speaker 1: Ray Ravenho bought them all and shipped them off to

947
00:51:37,640 --> 00:51:39,680
Speaker 1: poor people. Of course, we're gonna go. We're gon hand

948
00:51:39,719 --> 00:51:41,759
Speaker 1: about somewhere. We gotta make fun money somehow. We can't

949
00:51:41,800 --> 00:51:45,600
Speaker 1: waste this. Come on, come on. Yeah. And one of

950
00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:48,480
Speaker 1: the most breathtakingly unethical moments in the history of birth control,

951
00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:50,960
Speaker 1: marketers for us AID even found a way to turn

952
00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:53,680
Speaker 1: one of the common consequences of high estrogen pills, which

953
00:51:53,719 --> 00:51:57,520
Speaker 1: was painfully swollen breasts, into a positive. They started promoting

954
00:51:57,560 --> 00:52:00,600
Speaker 1: the pills in rural Bangladesh with the tagline it makes

955
00:52:00,600 --> 00:52:03,759
Speaker 1: your breasts more beautiful. It is good for you, including

956
00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:08,120
Speaker 1: the tailors who have to make bigger brasiers. You want

957
00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:16,000
Speaker 1: big boobies, try those, baby, I got you. Your boobs

958
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:18,759
Speaker 1: are gonna be amazing. You know when you're laying down

959
00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:23,520
Speaker 1: and people come to see you dead, don't be legit.

960
00:52:25,080 --> 00:52:31,640
Speaker 1: J christ Uh. Now, we focused rightfully on age Robbins

961
00:52:31,680 --> 00:52:34,680
Speaker 1: in the horrifying Dalcan Shield, but the terrible reality of

962
00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:37,440
Speaker 1: Western doctors forcing unsafe i u D s on impoverished

963
00:52:37,440 --> 00:52:40,319
Speaker 1: women actually goes back even further than that. In the

964
00:52:40,360 --> 00:52:44,400
Speaker 1: early nineteen sixties, western population control programs in rural India

965
00:52:44,440 --> 00:52:48,040
Speaker 1: and Pakistan started using experimental spiral and ring shaped i

966
00:52:48,239 --> 00:52:50,359
Speaker 1: u d s. These specific i u d s had

967
00:52:50,360 --> 00:52:53,240
Speaker 1: been widely discredited by doctors at the time as causing

968
00:52:53,280 --> 00:52:56,680
Speaker 1: extremely high rates of infection, pain, and bleeding. I'm gonna

969
00:52:56,760 --> 00:53:00,480
Speaker 1: quote now from the website Climate and Capitalism. Just at this. J.

970
00:53:00,680 --> 00:53:03,720
Speaker 1: Robert Wilson, chair of obstetrics and gynecology at Temple University,

971
00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:06,640
Speaker 1: told the nineteen sixty two Population Council conference i u

972
00:53:06,719 --> 00:53:09,240
Speaker 1: D should be ruled out regardless. We have to stop

973
00:53:09,280 --> 00:53:13,120
Speaker 1: functioning like doctors he said, In fact, it may well

974
00:53:13,200 --> 00:53:15,440
Speaker 1: be that the incidence of infection is going to be

975
00:53:15,480 --> 00:53:18,360
Speaker 1: pretty high in the patients who need the device most. Again,

976
00:53:18,560 --> 00:53:20,960
Speaker 1: if we look at this from an overall long range view,

977
00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:23,040
Speaker 1: these are the things I have never said out loud

978
00:53:23,080 --> 00:53:25,520
Speaker 1: because I don't know how it's going to sound. Perhaps

979
00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:29,440
Speaker 1: the individual patient is expendable in the general scheme of things,

980
00:53:29,760 --> 00:53:36,960
Speaker 1: particularly if the infection she acquires is sterilization but not lethal. Expendable, expendable,

981
00:53:38,200 --> 00:53:44,040
Speaker 1: So yeah, no mask on there, Like, yeah, she's expendable.

982
00:53:44,080 --> 00:53:46,800
Speaker 1: And honestly, if she gets a horrible infection that renders

983
00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:49,600
Speaker 1: her sterile, that's a win that if we did what

984
00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:51,919
Speaker 1: we said that we're going to do right, we can

985
00:53:51,920 --> 00:53:55,520
Speaker 1: hold that population just right out in the open with it.

986
00:53:55,520 --> 00:53:59,880
Speaker 1: It's amazing. Yeah, I mean I give that guy on

987
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:02,200
Speaker 1: honestly more credit than I give Raven Holt, because he's

988
00:54:02,239 --> 00:54:05,000
Speaker 1: not Raven Holtz is saying the same thing but dressing that.

989
00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:07,560
Speaker 1: This guy's just like, yeah, fuck him, like it's about

990
00:54:07,640 --> 00:54:09,440
Speaker 1: stopping him from giving birth. I don't care how we

991
00:54:09,480 --> 00:54:12,200
Speaker 1: do it. Don't worry about the doctor's oath. Just go

992
00:54:12,239 --> 00:54:15,240
Speaker 1: ahead and do your thing. Yeah, we can't act like doctors.

993
00:54:15,239 --> 00:54:18,120
Speaker 1: These are poor people and they're not white. So it's fine.

994
00:54:18,120 --> 00:54:23,879
Speaker 1: It's fine about this control, this good ship. Yeah, uh yeah.

995
00:54:24,280 --> 00:54:28,000
Speaker 1: Wilson's fellow obstetrician, Alan Goodmocker, an influential figure in the

996
00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:31,239
Speaker 1: Population Council and i PPF extolled the benefits of I

997
00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:34,279
Speaker 1: U d S in a similar vein, no contraceptive could

998
00:54:34,280 --> 00:54:36,400
Speaker 1: be cheaper. And also once the damn thing is in,

999
00:54:36,440 --> 00:54:39,080
Speaker 1: the patient cannot change her mind. In fact, we will

1000
00:54:39,080 --> 00:54:41,320
Speaker 1: hope she will forget it's there, and perhaps in several

1001
00:54:41,320 --> 00:54:46,480
Speaker 1: months wonder why she has not conceived. Oh wait what? Yeah,

1002
00:54:46,719 --> 00:54:53,120
Speaker 1: it's pretty bad, right, It's like roofy. Yeah, hopefully the

1003
00:54:53,200 --> 00:54:56,880
Speaker 1: dumbastards will forget they even have it. You'll never remember

1004
00:54:56,960 --> 00:55:02,719
Speaker 1: and then oh god, yeah it's pretty bad right, I

1005
00:55:02,760 --> 00:55:07,560
Speaker 1: don't like now. A lot of the evidence for this

1006
00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:09,799
Speaker 1: episode comes from a couple of different sources, but most

1007
00:55:09,840 --> 00:55:12,520
Speaker 1: of them written by one man, Matthew Connolly, who has

1008
00:55:12,560 --> 00:55:15,760
Speaker 1: done more to unravel and expose the whole horrific story

1009
00:55:15,840 --> 00:55:18,880
Speaker 1: of the population control movement than probably any other Westerner.

1010
00:55:19,280 --> 00:55:22,800
Speaker 1: His book, Fatal Misconception lays out the whole sordid tale.

1011
00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:27,960
Speaker 1: In it, he concludes the great tragedy of population control.

1012
00:55:28,080 --> 00:55:31,319
Speaker 1: The fatal misconception was to think that one could know

1013
00:55:31,480 --> 00:55:34,759
Speaker 1: other people's interests better than they know it themselves. But

1014
00:55:34,840 --> 00:55:38,520
Speaker 1: if the idea of planning other people's families is now discredited,

1015
00:55:38,680 --> 00:55:41,880
Speaker 1: this very human tendency is still with us. The essence

1016
00:55:41,920 --> 00:55:45,920
Speaker 1: of population control, whether it targeted migrants, the unfit, or

1017
00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:48,680
Speaker 1: families that seemed either too big or too small, was

1018
00:55:48,719 --> 00:55:52,040
Speaker 1: to make rules for other people without having to answer

1019
00:55:52,080 --> 00:55:54,920
Speaker 1: to them. It appealed to the rich and powerful, because

1020
00:55:55,120 --> 00:55:58,280
Speaker 1: with the spread of emancipatory movements and the integration of markets,

1021
00:55:58,480 --> 00:56:01,360
Speaker 1: it began to appear easier and more profitable that to

1022
00:56:01,480 --> 00:56:05,920
Speaker 1: control populations than to control territory. That's why opponents were

1023
00:56:05,920 --> 00:56:08,640
Speaker 1: correct in viewing it as another chapter in the unfinished

1024
00:56:08,640 --> 00:56:19,319
Speaker 1: history of imperialism more profitable Holy Fund. Yeah Yeah, And

1025
00:56:19,400 --> 00:56:22,840
Speaker 1: that chapter, Samantha, is in fact not finished. Today. You

1026
00:56:22,840 --> 00:56:25,040
Speaker 1: can still find many of these same attitudes present and

1027
00:56:25,120 --> 00:56:27,759
Speaker 1: well meaning powerful people today. In May two thousand nine,

1028
00:56:27,840 --> 00:56:30,880
Speaker 1: a group of billionaires including Bill Gates, Ted Turner, David Rockefeller,

1029
00:56:30,880 --> 00:56:33,640
Speaker 1: George Soros, and Warren Buffett all met in semi secrecy

1030
00:56:33,640 --> 00:56:38,520
Speaker 1: to discuss what they termed a nightmarish scenario over population.

1031
00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:42,680
Speaker 1: The London Sunday Time said they considered this a potentially

1032
00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:47,000
Speaker 1: disastrous environmental, social, and industrial threat since at present more

1033
00:56:47,000 --> 00:56:50,000
Speaker 1: than projected population growth was expected to occur in the

1034
00:56:50,040 --> 00:56:52,640
Speaker 1: global South. We can assume they were worried about precisely

1035
00:56:52,680 --> 00:56:55,600
Speaker 1: the same nations and sorts of people as Ray Ravenholt.

1036
00:56:55,719 --> 00:56:58,480
Speaker 1: And it's interesting that David Rockefeller attended because in the

1037
00:56:58,560 --> 00:57:01,200
Speaker 1: nineteen sixties his father is one of the major founders

1038
00:57:01,200 --> 00:57:04,319
Speaker 1: of the Population Council, which helped fund and drive through

1039
00:57:04,320 --> 00:57:08,040
Speaker 1: lobbying everything we've talked about today. In nineteen seventy, journalists

1040
00:57:08,040 --> 00:57:11,920
Speaker 1: Steve Weissman termed people like Rockefeller members of the American

1041
00:57:12,040 --> 00:57:16,320
Speaker 1: population elite. In an immortal line for Ramparts magazine. He noted,

1042
00:57:16,920 --> 00:57:20,200
Speaker 1: in the hands of the self, seeking humanitarianism is the

1043
00:57:20,240 --> 00:57:29,280
Speaker 1: most terrifying ism of all. Wow, all right, so caring

1044
00:57:29,360 --> 00:57:32,120
Speaker 1: about people and uh and I'm wanting to help enough?

1045
00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:37,960
Speaker 1: How help people survive? Well, No, it's it's it's when

1046
00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:41,360
Speaker 1: you're it's when you try to cloak your desire to

1047
00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:45,800
Speaker 1: control other people's behavior as wanting to help them, right,

1048
00:57:46,240 --> 00:57:49,960
Speaker 1: It's not wanting to help someone to force a contraceptive

1049
00:57:49,960 --> 00:57:51,960
Speaker 1: on them that they don't know the consequences of and

1050
00:57:52,040 --> 00:57:54,160
Speaker 1: that will harm them, and that you're not going to

1051
00:57:54,160 --> 00:57:55,960
Speaker 1: give them follow up care and provide them with the

1052
00:57:56,000 --> 00:57:58,880
Speaker 1: essential vitamins and stuff. It is. It is helping someone

1053
00:57:58,920 --> 00:58:00,720
Speaker 1: to be like, hey, here's a bunch of free condoms,

1054
00:58:00,760 --> 00:58:02,840
Speaker 1: here's how you use them. Or here's much birth control pills,

1055
00:58:02,840 --> 00:58:04,280
Speaker 1: here's how you use them. Here's what you need to

1056
00:58:04,320 --> 00:58:05,960
Speaker 1: know about how it will affect your body. Here's what

1057
00:58:06,000 --> 00:58:07,760
Speaker 1: you need to take in order for this to be safe.

1058
00:58:08,200 --> 00:58:12,240
Speaker 1: You know. That is helping people. It's helping people to say,

1059
00:58:12,640 --> 00:58:16,480
Speaker 1: you know, here's access to vaccine. You know that will

1060
00:58:16,520 --> 00:58:19,200
Speaker 1: deal with a problem that you have in this region. Um,

1061
00:58:19,240 --> 00:58:21,240
Speaker 1: it's not helping people to, for example, do with the

1062
00:58:21,240 --> 00:58:23,880
Speaker 1: CIA did in Pakistan and secretly give people a fake

1063
00:58:23,960 --> 00:58:25,920
Speaker 1: vaccine in order to get blood samples to track down

1064
00:58:25,920 --> 00:58:29,800
Speaker 1: Osama bin laden, which is the thing that happened. It's

1065
00:58:29,800 --> 00:58:33,400
Speaker 1: not like historic maze and ice at all. Yeah, And

1066
00:58:33,440 --> 00:58:36,600
Speaker 1: the biggest problem here is that, in no way is

1067
00:58:36,680 --> 00:58:40,880
Speaker 1: over population actually a problem. Over Population is not driving

1068
00:58:40,920 --> 00:58:44,240
Speaker 1: climate change. Over Population is not the issue we're dealing

1069
00:58:44,280 --> 00:58:46,760
Speaker 1: with here. It's what all these billionaires are focusing on

1070
00:58:46,960 --> 00:58:49,280
Speaker 1: because in part, if you can get other people to

1071
00:58:49,320 --> 00:58:51,680
Speaker 1: think that overpopulation is the problem, that people won't look

1072
00:58:51,720 --> 00:58:55,040
Speaker 1: at billionaires is maybe part of the problem. Um. But yeah,

1073
00:58:55,080 --> 00:58:59,680
Speaker 1: this is this brings me to the conclusion of this story, um,

1074
00:58:59,800 --> 00:59:02,919
Speaker 1: the because yeah, there are some people who have learned

1075
00:59:02,960 --> 00:59:05,280
Speaker 1: from the past of the population control movement, from this

1076
00:59:05,360 --> 00:59:07,840
Speaker 1: chapter in the history of imperialism, and one of those

1077
00:59:07,840 --> 00:59:11,600
Speaker 1: groups is the Sierra Club. Like most environmental organizations, the

1078
00:59:11,600 --> 00:59:14,600
Speaker 1: Sierra Club bought whole hog into population control throughout the

1079
00:59:14,600 --> 00:59:16,600
Speaker 1: twentieth century. They thought that the best way to protect

1080
00:59:16,680 --> 00:59:19,920
Speaker 1: wild nature was to reduce the human population, and they

1081
00:59:19,960 --> 00:59:21,680
Speaker 1: bought into a lot of the stuff that we've talked

1082
00:59:21,720 --> 00:59:23,160
Speaker 1: about today and helped to fund it and all that

1083
00:59:23,240 --> 00:59:27,120
Speaker 1: horrible shit. But in they published a blog post repudiating

1084
00:59:27,160 --> 00:59:33,920
Speaker 1: that history, titled the Overpopulation Myth and its Dangerous Connotations. Yeah,

1085
00:59:33,920 --> 00:59:37,920
Speaker 1: it took him a while, right. The article is brutal

1086
00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:41,080
Speaker 1: and unsparing. It points out that the Population Bomb in

1087
00:59:41,160 --> 00:59:43,720
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty eight book by Paul Erlick that was probably

1088
00:59:43,760 --> 00:59:47,720
Speaker 1: the single most influential inspiration behind modern fears of overpopulation,

1089
00:59:48,120 --> 00:59:51,640
Speaker 1: was also profoundly racist. It quote opens its fearmongering. With

1090
00:59:51,680 --> 00:59:54,880
Speaker 1: a sensationalized account of traveling through Delhi, India during a

1091
00:59:54,920 --> 00:59:58,920
Speaker 1: taxi ride, author Paul Airlick notes people visiting, arguing and screaming,

1092
00:59:58,960 --> 01:00:01,520
Speaker 1: thrusting their hands through the a taxi window begging. Since

1093
01:00:01,560 --> 01:00:05,520
Speaker 1: that night, I've known the feel of overpopulation. What Erlich

1094
01:00:05,600 --> 01:00:08,320
Speaker 1: fails to mention, however, is that while Delhi's population was

1095
01:00:08,360 --> 01:00:10,520
Speaker 1: just say of three million, both New York and Paris

1096
01:00:10,600 --> 01:00:13,600
Speaker 1: housed about eight million at the time. Air Lick's emphasis

1097
01:00:13,600 --> 01:00:16,520
Speaker 1: on an Indian city as the exemplification of overpopulation was

1098
01:00:16,520 --> 01:00:19,320
Speaker 1: part of a large and continuing pattern of focusing blame

1099
01:00:19,360 --> 01:00:21,720
Speaker 1: on the Global South and mostly the non white people

1100
01:00:21,720 --> 01:00:25,400
Speaker 1: who lived there, as affluent Western Europeans and Americans. And

1101
01:00:26,720 --> 01:00:28,640
Speaker 1: in this article, which is quite good, the Seria Club

1102
01:00:28,680 --> 01:00:32,240
Speaker 1: makes the accurate point that our actual population with overpopulation

1103
01:00:32,320 --> 01:00:34,160
Speaker 1: has nothing to do with the raw number of humans

1104
01:00:34,160 --> 01:00:35,800
Speaker 1: on Earth, and certainly not in the number of people

1105
01:00:35,800 --> 01:00:37,960
Speaker 1: who live in the Global South. It has everything to

1106
01:00:38,000 --> 01:00:41,080
Speaker 1: do with the wildly outsized amount of resources consumed by

1107
01:00:41,080 --> 01:00:44,040
Speaker 1: a privileged few, namely you and me and everybody listening

1108
01:00:44,080 --> 01:00:47,600
Speaker 1: to this podcast. The world's wealthiest half billion people are

1109
01:00:47,640 --> 01:00:50,960
Speaker 1: responsible for fifty percent of the planet's carbon dioxide emissions

1110
01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:57,560
Speaker 1: despite making up six percent of the population. Yep, like it. Yep,

1111
01:00:57,720 --> 01:01:00,200
Speaker 1: there's so many things. I just can't understand the whole

1112
01:01:00,440 --> 01:01:05,000
Speaker 1: overpopulation movement in itself, not seeing that as a travesty

1113
01:01:05,120 --> 01:01:09,720
Speaker 1: to humanity in general. Yeah, and it's it is fundamentally

1114
01:01:09,840 --> 01:01:13,000
Speaker 1: racist while also being a thing that people who would

1115
01:01:13,000 --> 01:01:15,960
Speaker 1: call themselves anti racist buy into because they see, look

1116
01:01:15,960 --> 01:01:17,920
Speaker 1: at all these giants, these all these families that are

1117
01:01:17,960 --> 01:01:21,040
Speaker 1: nine and ten kids, and you know, Mexico and Guatemala,

1118
01:01:21,080 --> 01:01:24,280
Speaker 1: in in in Paraguay or whatever. Uh, Like, that's we

1119
01:01:24,360 --> 01:01:26,760
Speaker 1: gotta that's a problem part of has to be part

1120
01:01:26,760 --> 01:01:28,720
Speaker 1: of the climate change problems. Like, no, dude, it's the

1121
01:01:28,760 --> 01:01:31,720
Speaker 1: fact that your family has three cars for two people, right,

1122
01:01:32,440 --> 01:01:35,280
Speaker 1: Like that is a bigger driver every lion on using

1123
01:01:35,320 --> 01:01:38,320
Speaker 1: all kinds of emissions. Yet But okay, it's absolutely the

1124
01:01:38,360 --> 01:01:41,320
Speaker 1: poor people who's living on and more to the point,

1125
01:01:41,400 --> 01:01:43,680
Speaker 1: it's not even really honestly, if we want to actually

1126
01:01:43,680 --> 01:01:45,480
Speaker 1: get at the core of the problem with climate change,

1127
01:01:45,520 --> 01:01:47,640
Speaker 1: it's not even like the fact that your family has

1128
01:01:47,680 --> 01:01:51,000
Speaker 1: three cars. It's that there is this giant system of

1129
01:01:51,080 --> 01:01:55,640
Speaker 1: mega corporations that profit based off of releasing emissions into

1130
01:01:55,640 --> 01:01:58,800
Speaker 1: the air that also effectively control the levers of government

1131
01:01:58,880 --> 01:02:01,120
Speaker 1: and very effectively market to all of us, and also

1132
01:02:01,240 --> 01:02:04,760
Speaker 1: very effectively stop reforms and things like public transportation that

1133
01:02:04,760 --> 01:02:08,560
Speaker 1: would reduce our need, like our dependence on emissions generating vehicles.

1134
01:02:08,600 --> 01:02:11,400
Speaker 1: Like it's all bad, but it's sure as hell not

1135
01:02:11,480 --> 01:02:14,040
Speaker 1: the pop It's not the fault of somebody in Ethiopia

1136
01:02:14,080 --> 01:02:16,840
Speaker 1: who has eight kids, you know, if that I mean

1137
01:02:16,920 --> 01:02:20,200
Speaker 1: to be fair in general, Like the poverty situation is

1138
01:02:20,240 --> 01:02:25,280
Speaker 1: not because that they are wasting ship. That's not That's

1139
01:02:25,280 --> 01:02:28,919
Speaker 1: not that poor people are the best at not wasting ship.

1140
01:02:29,400 --> 01:02:32,200
Speaker 1: But I remember one time in Mosle in Iraq, we

1141
01:02:32,200 --> 01:02:34,520
Speaker 1: were like hanging out with this this group of like

1142
01:02:34,960 --> 01:02:37,600
Speaker 1: civil defense people, like basically e m t s, like

1143
01:02:37,640 --> 01:02:40,280
Speaker 1: going into collapsed buildings in the day and pulling people

1144
01:02:40,280 --> 01:02:42,240
Speaker 1: out of the rubble. And like they wanted to watch

1145
01:02:42,240 --> 01:02:44,880
Speaker 1: a movie. So they took apart an old refrigerator and

1146
01:02:44,920 --> 01:02:47,400
Speaker 1: an old like giant like not one of the flat screens,

1147
01:02:47,400 --> 01:02:49,680
Speaker 1: one of the big boxy TVs, and they wired the

1148
01:02:49,680 --> 01:02:52,400
Speaker 1: TV through the refrigerator into a generator so that we

1149
01:02:52,440 --> 01:02:55,000
Speaker 1: could watch I think it was Patriot Games on like

1150
01:02:55,120 --> 01:03:02,160
Speaker 1: some fucking local channels. Okay, yeah, yeah, they didn't waste ship.

1151
01:03:02,480 --> 01:03:05,040
Speaker 1: There wasn't things wasted. That's that's the problem. Is the

1152
01:03:05,080 --> 01:03:07,560
Speaker 1: conversation is who's wasting one? And who was actually the

1153
01:03:07,560 --> 01:03:10,880
Speaker 1: problematic issue in this conversation? And what are you really

1154
01:03:10,880 --> 01:03:13,280
Speaker 1: getting at? You just want to be in the hierarchy

1155
01:03:13,280 --> 01:03:16,360
Speaker 1: and make sure you come out on top. Yeah, exactly,

1156
01:03:16,400 --> 01:03:19,560
Speaker 1: Like there's sucking people listening to this, probably including me,

1157
01:03:19,600 --> 01:03:22,520
Speaker 1: who have bought new TVs when old ones were not

1158
01:03:22,600 --> 01:03:25,480
Speaker 1: permanently broken but just became a problem. It just you

1159
01:03:25,560 --> 01:03:27,800
Speaker 1: wanted something nicer. It's it's a bigger screen. I want

1160
01:03:27,840 --> 01:03:35,800
Speaker 1: the big screen with a better Yeah. Yeah, I'm sorry.

1161
01:03:36,120 --> 01:03:42,280
Speaker 1: Yeah anyway, Well, thank you for the horror nightmare that

1162
01:03:42,320 --> 01:03:45,919
Speaker 1: you just put me through. Robbery once again and then

1163
01:03:45,960 --> 01:03:48,880
Speaker 1: and Sophie, uh, there are a lot of things that

1164
01:03:48,920 --> 01:03:51,800
Speaker 1: I will be horrified of now. I feel like my

1165
01:03:51,960 --> 01:03:54,960
Speaker 1: I U D maybe trying to crawl out of me. Um,

1166
01:03:55,000 --> 01:03:58,240
Speaker 1: thank you for that. I did not use a vaginal

1167
01:03:58,480 --> 01:04:01,640
Speaker 1: death crab yea for mine. And I want to be clear,

1168
01:04:01,680 --> 01:04:02,760
Speaker 1: like I've tried to make a point of this. I'm

1169
01:04:02,800 --> 01:04:04,280
Speaker 1: not saying I d are bad. I hope that's not

1170
01:04:04,280 --> 01:04:08,440
Speaker 1: what anyone takes out of this, like the obviously shield was,

1171
01:04:10,480 --> 01:04:14,080
Speaker 1: and you know, the Marina might wind up being something

1172
01:04:14,120 --> 01:04:15,640
Speaker 1: like that. We don't really know what the whole story

1173
01:04:15,720 --> 01:04:16,840
Speaker 1: is going to be on that, although I know a

1174
01:04:16,880 --> 01:04:18,480
Speaker 1: lot of people who haven't and have had no problem

1175
01:04:18,480 --> 01:04:21,560
Speaker 1: with it. Like the bad guy in this is again imperialism,

1176
01:04:22,680 --> 01:04:26,680
Speaker 1: and also talking about the healthcare in general, who has

1177
01:04:26,720 --> 01:04:31,040
Speaker 1: provided what type of care and what is being who

1178
01:04:31,080 --> 01:04:34,400
Speaker 1: has the privilege of getting the better not whatever whatnot.

1179
01:04:34,480 --> 01:04:37,280
Speaker 1: So that's also the conversation. But yeah, the vaginal death

1180
01:04:37,320 --> 01:04:40,880
Speaker 1: crabs something that I will always remember. Thank you. I

1181
01:04:41,000 --> 01:04:42,800
Speaker 1: love that this was our first meeting. That that's what

1182
01:04:42,960 --> 01:04:46,000
Speaker 1: our conversation talking about vaginal death crabs. And we can

1183
01:04:46,200 --> 01:04:49,720
Speaker 1: hear us play as vaginal death crabs when you know

1184
01:04:49,800 --> 01:04:53,040
Speaker 1: in two were able to finally go on tour. Yeah,

1185
01:04:53,160 --> 01:04:55,919
Speaker 1: I'm so excited for this. I've got my uku lately

1186
01:04:55,960 --> 01:04:59,640
Speaker 1: ready will actually be opening for the Eagles. Oddly enough,

1187
01:04:59,680 --> 01:05:04,800
Speaker 1: it was strange cook, Ye, my dream is coming true. Amazing.

1188
01:05:06,520 --> 01:05:09,600
Speaker 1: Uh Okay, well, you got anything you want to plug

1189
01:05:09,640 --> 01:05:12,320
Speaker 1: before we roll out of here. Samantha again, you can

1190
01:05:12,360 --> 01:05:14,920
Speaker 1: find me on stuff. Mom never told you a podcast

1191
01:05:14,960 --> 01:05:17,600
Speaker 1: with I heart wherever you get your podcast, and you

1192
01:05:17,640 --> 01:05:20,160
Speaker 1: can find me as a McVay Samantha m c v

1193
01:05:20,320 --> 01:05:23,439
Speaker 1: e y. That is the spelling, not the other one.

1194
01:05:23,600 --> 01:05:25,520
Speaker 1: I just want to put that out there on both

1195
01:05:25,560 --> 01:05:32,560
Speaker 1: Instagram or Twitter. Yeah, and I am not available anywhere

1196
01:05:32,760 --> 01:05:36,400
Speaker 1: you cannot find me. Don't try. I will destroy you.

1197
01:05:38,400 --> 01:05:43,360
Speaker 1: Challenge accepted. Yep, You're so weird sometimes, Robert, I don't know.

1198
01:05:43,440 --> 01:05:45,280
Speaker 1: I don't know how do There's so many episodes of

1199
01:05:45,280 --> 01:05:47,360
Speaker 1: this fucking podcast. I can't end all of them like

1200
01:05:47,400 --> 01:05:50,560
Speaker 1: a competent professional. I feel like I got surprised into

1201
01:05:50,560 --> 01:05:54,920
Speaker 1: a two partter. I was like, what more death traps? Yeah, okay, yeah.

1202
01:05:54,960 --> 01:05:56,920
Speaker 1: We said at some point early in the series that

1203
01:05:56,960 --> 01:05:59,560
Speaker 1: we mostly we would only rarely do two parters, and

1204
01:05:59,600 --> 01:06:02,120
Speaker 1: then we seated to pivot to only doing two parters

1205
01:06:02,160 --> 01:06:04,960
Speaker 1: almost in the I don't know how I let that.

1206
01:06:05,400 --> 01:06:08,840
Speaker 1: What if we do in the occasional twice per week?

1207
01:06:09,000 --> 01:06:12,400
Speaker 1: And then it was like I order or just twice

1208
01:06:12,400 --> 01:06:16,160
Speaker 1: per Welcome to the Welcome in my world. Never enough

1209
01:06:16,240 --> 01:06:24,280
Speaker 1: good bad information out there, pieces old