1 00:00:02,080 --> 00:00:05,280 Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the thing, 2 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:10,320 Speaker 1: My chance to talk with artists, policymakers and performers, to 3 00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 1: hear their stories, What inspires their creations, what decisions change 4 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:20,480 Speaker 1: their careers, what relationships influenced their work. A new book 5 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:25,599 Speaker 1: called Dating Tips for the Unemployed follows its hero Irish Smiles, 6 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:29,360 Speaker 1: as she haplessly meanders through New York City looking for 7 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:33,519 Speaker 1: love and work, and then finding darkly humorous ways to 8 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:37,280 Speaker 1: sabotage that love and work. The book's author is also 9 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:41,360 Speaker 1: named Irish Smiles. She's earned her reputation as a wickedly 10 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 1: funny chronicler of disaffection, family dysfunction, and self loathing. Smiles 11 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:51,960 Speaker 1: was precocious from a very early age, with highbrow literary tastes. 12 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 1: In the fifth grade, although she found her love for 13 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 1: the classics via an unexpected inspiration. There were these cartoons 14 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:02,639 Speaker 1: of Mr Magoo and it was like Mr Magoo does 15 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:06,320 Speaker 1: the Classics. And there was one adaptation of Moby Dick 16 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:10,560 Speaker 1: where Mr Magoo plays Ishmael, the lone survivor of the Peaquad, 17 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 1: who in this case is is seventy year old man 18 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 1: got blind. And this blind deaf millionaire. He's the only one. 19 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 1: He's the only one who survives. Anyway, I was so 20 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:23,760 Speaker 1: taken with it. I was in fifth grade. So I 21 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:25,920 Speaker 1: went to the library and got the book and I 22 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:29,000 Speaker 1: was trying to read that, and then my um my 23 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:32,040 Speaker 1: school teacher saw the book on my desk and started 24 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:34,760 Speaker 1: laughing at me, which I thought there was a gentler 25 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:36,920 Speaker 1: way to suggest that maybe it was a bit advanced. 26 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:40,200 Speaker 1: But I showed him where did you grow up? With 27 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 1: town in di Cell's Long Island, So that was very 28 00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:44,640 Speaker 1: was a very wooded back then. Because you said you'd 29 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 1: like to quote go around and climb trees, It wasn't 30 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:50,760 Speaker 1: really that wooded, but I found the trees and those 31 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:55,400 Speaker 1: I climbed Um, all three trees that block, you climbed them. 32 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 1: It was somewhat I mean, there were trees around. It 33 00:01:57,520 --> 00:02:02,800 Speaker 1: was a suburb Um but also Dix Hills. Interesting it 34 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 1: is where John Coltrane went to die. Um. I found 35 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 1: that out recently. I'm not sure why he went to 36 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:13,400 Speaker 1: the no but also and also it's near Um. Speaking 37 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:16,520 Speaker 1: of literature, I grew up on Ibsen Court, which all 38 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:19,920 Speaker 1: the streets on my block were named after authors, but 39 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:21,960 Speaker 1: no one knew, because I think the planners of the 40 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:24,280 Speaker 1: town had these like high hopes for the people who 41 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:26,400 Speaker 1: would move in, and instead it was just all of us, 42 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:31,320 Speaker 1: and it was more mall culture. So um, they thought 43 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:33,200 Speaker 1: it would be like a bunch of literary right. So, 44 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:35,359 Speaker 1: for example, I grew up near the Walt Whitman Mall 45 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 1: because Walt Whitman's birthplaces in Melville. But no one knew 46 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:41,880 Speaker 1: that Walt Whitman was a poet. So when it came 47 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:45,720 Speaker 1: time to learn about Walt Whitman in in high school, 48 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:47,680 Speaker 1: everyone was like, Oh, this guy is named after our mall, 49 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:54,400 Speaker 1: he must not be that bad. Your parents super brainiac people, 50 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 1: are they like reading all the time and playing opera 51 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:02,600 Speaker 1: in the house. And you've been a very culture cultural No, um, no, 52 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 1: culture culture. No, actually that's not true. Well, my parents 53 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:09,400 Speaker 1: were working so much when I was growing up. You 54 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:12,640 Speaker 1: have siblings. I have two older brothers, so you have 55 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 1: two older brothers and than you. Yes, but my father 56 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:18,040 Speaker 1: was a big reader and so but we didn't have 57 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:20,520 Speaker 1: any books in the house because why buy them when 58 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:23,240 Speaker 1: you could borrow them from the library. So in the 59 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 1: summertime we would go to the library and like get 60 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 1: a whole bunch of books on long loan, and then 61 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 1: we would take them with us to Greece, where my 62 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:33,119 Speaker 1: mother is from, and read them over there and get 63 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 1: them ruined on the beach, which always excited me because 64 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 1: I thought I'm going to bring the books. I brought 65 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 1: the books back ruined, but I thought I was bringing 66 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 1: them back with the secret history. And how lucky for 67 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:44,880 Speaker 1: someone else that happened after they've been all over the world. 68 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 1: This ordinary water stains on this book some Greece. Now, 69 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 1: so your own connection which lives on now? Correct? You? 70 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:58,960 Speaker 1: You you live in Greece part time? Well, I really 71 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:01,680 Speaker 1: just say that to make myself sound more interesting. How 72 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 1: much of what you say is just to make you 73 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:05,839 Speaker 1: sound we're interesting? How much of it is Factum? Very 74 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:08,120 Speaker 1: little of what I say is to make myself sound 75 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 1: more interesting. But some of what I write is to 76 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:12,720 Speaker 1: make myself sound more interesting. So I never would have 77 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 1: said I live in Greece for part of the time. Um, 78 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 1: But I did write that in my bio to give 79 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:21,560 Speaker 1: myself a little extra glamour. Okay, I lived there like 80 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:25,240 Speaker 1: three or four months of the year. You do, now, Yeah, 81 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:29,720 Speaker 1: except for right that that right now, I'm here. Now, 82 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:33,560 Speaker 1: what did your dad do? Um? He well, growing up, 83 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:38,920 Speaker 1: my parents um had a party store. But did they 84 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:41,480 Speaker 1: really Yeah? Yeah, I grew up with all sorts of 85 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:43,719 Speaker 1: I mean I thought that that's what they were into, 86 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:46,200 Speaker 1: so I really embraced that hard and was really into 87 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:48,359 Speaker 1: partying for a long time. But it turns out it 88 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:50,800 Speaker 1: was just like they got into it accidentally. They're just 89 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 1: you know, business people, so you're doing like a kid's 90 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:58,800 Speaker 1: party store. Were like they'd sell party supplies and novelty items. 91 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:01,080 Speaker 1: So like I grew up, there's yeah, a lot of 92 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:05,440 Speaker 1: would be cushions around my house, like tons. Um, we've 93 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 1: only recently gotten through all of them, you know. Uh. Yeah, 94 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:11,919 Speaker 1: I didn't have a lot of Like my parents weren't 95 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:15,360 Speaker 1: into material objects, so I didn't have which is important 96 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:18,160 Speaker 1: in suburban Long Island. I didn't have like the best clothes, 97 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:20,599 Speaker 1: but like on Halloween, I was the best dressed. But 98 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:23,240 Speaker 1: the only every other year was like a nightmare for me. 99 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:25,159 Speaker 1: I mean every other time of year, all the kids 100 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:27,440 Speaker 1: would you know, tease me, but on Halloween, I was 101 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:31,599 Speaker 1: like I had everything. You're a goddess. Yeah, I don't 102 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:33,159 Speaker 1: want to see. Were you close to your parents? But 103 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:36,240 Speaker 1: you think your parents understood you. Did they cultivate sides 104 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:40,320 Speaker 1: of you that are have kind of evolved Now you're writing. 105 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:43,719 Speaker 1: Did you show your parents you're writing and did you 106 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:48,640 Speaker 1: share with them stuff you wrote? Um? No, Well then 107 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 1: I was. I was always writing a journal, and my 108 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:53,000 Speaker 1: father asked me once if he could, if he could 109 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 1: read what I was writing. And so I said, okay, 110 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:58,160 Speaker 1: but after I die, because you wrote I really want 111 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 1: to kill my father. It was just that's how it's done. 112 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:05,280 Speaker 1: You know my posthumous papers, You don't. You don't publish 113 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:08,920 Speaker 1: your your journal before you die. Although I have published 114 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 1: a selection of my journal in my upcoming book. I 115 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:14,479 Speaker 1: just slipped it in there just to promote it. But 116 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:17,599 Speaker 1: you wrote a journal and you didn't share it with anybody. No, 117 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:20,719 Speaker 1: that was the whole you know, the whole point of it, um, 118 00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 1: and that it would be published posthumously. But I'm not 119 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:28,679 Speaker 1: sure about that anymore. I mean, that was my idea 120 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 1: when I took it up in fourth grade. But you know, 121 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 1: my legacy as every fourth grader should be concerned with. 122 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 1: But in retrospect, I'm not sure it's such a I've 123 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:40,960 Speaker 1: been looking over the pages and I'm not I'm not 124 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:43,839 Speaker 1: sure if I actually am going to publish them after 125 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:45,719 Speaker 1: I die, I might have to destroy them. You started 126 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:48,159 Speaker 1: writing that when you were how old? Fourth grade? I think? 127 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:50,839 Speaker 1: What kinds of things did you write in fourth grade? Um? Well, 128 00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 1: that's you'll just have to wait. Give us just a 129 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:57,920 Speaker 1: vague notion of what you vote. Was it all about, 130 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 1: like you know, today I walked home from school, it 131 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:04,120 Speaker 1: was cold or was it? Was it beyond that? Was it? Like? Well? 132 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:08,279 Speaker 1: It changed? So there were sometimes there were crushes, a 133 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 1: lot of crushes, um, I think, which you might think 134 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 1: sounds out a lescent, But that's what the romantic poets 135 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 1: were doing. So there's a long tradition of that sort 136 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:21,800 Speaker 1: of thing, um, you know. And then I was trying 137 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:24,720 Speaker 1: to work on my my descriptions for a while, so 138 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:30,200 Speaker 1: I would describe water and trees, how many patients. Mostly 139 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:34,600 Speaker 1: it's the good stuff we need to add down. It's volumes. Yeah, 140 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 1: I don't think. I don't think I'm actually gonna publish 141 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 1: it any anymore. That was the idea then, though. But 142 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 1: one time I had when I first came out of 143 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 1: college and I had started, I had it I wanted 144 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:46,840 Speaker 1: to be a writer, and so I had written this thing, 145 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 1: and I had this idea. I told my parents, you know, 146 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:50,960 Speaker 1: instead of getting a job, I'm going to be a 147 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:57,440 Speaker 1: columnist because that's really easy. No, it's just what you said, 148 00:07:57,640 --> 00:07:59,720 Speaker 1: what you say, and what's real or no, I mean 149 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:02,080 Speaker 1: that's I was at the point where I thought, you 150 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 1: just want to be something and then you do it. 151 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:08,480 Speaker 1: Um So, so I had read them this thing that 152 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:11,080 Speaker 1: I had written. I mean, I thought it was funny, 153 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 1: but their faces kind of just fell because it was 154 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:18,920 Speaker 1: really depressing. It turns out anyway, the point is, don't 155 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:20,840 Speaker 1: show your work to your parents. They won't get it 156 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:22,800 Speaker 1: because they just look at it to sort of like 157 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 1: figure out what's wrong with you, you know, like some 158 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:28,640 Speaker 1: kind of Rosetta stone, to like where they failed, rather 159 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:31,640 Speaker 1: than seeing its literary merit, Like, you know, where they 160 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:34,800 Speaker 1: failed is pretty much where my writing succeeds, I think. 161 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 1: And neither of them writers ever. Well, my father is creative, 162 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:41,720 Speaker 1: so he's he used to write and to do different. 163 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:44,160 Speaker 1: He has a sort of artistic temperament. When is your 164 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:48,719 Speaker 1: writing change beyond the journal that we're never going to 165 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 1: be reading. Um well, I guess I didn't really begin 166 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:59,520 Speaker 1: writing properly until I was around twenty eight or twenty nine. 167 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:02,520 Speaker 1: I'm and I was writing before that and fancied myself 168 00:09:02,559 --> 00:09:04,600 Speaker 1: a writer, but I didn't really become I was kind 169 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 1: of more of a dilettante um. And what changed were 170 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 1: we in the gap between ten and twenty eight? What 171 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:12,680 Speaker 1: were you doing? You went to college for what? Oh? 172 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 1: I went to UM, I went to n y U 173 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:20,200 Speaker 1: to study acting. Um. What were your feelings about that? Oh? 174 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 1: It was you know, I wanted to be an actress, 175 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 1: but there was a lot of time there. I missed academics. 176 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:28,360 Speaker 1: You know, at especially at n y U, it's a 177 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 1: conservatory program, so it's a lot of money to be 178 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 1: pretending to be in a large body of water or 179 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 1: holding a coffee cup for like hours and hours everything. 180 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:41,000 Speaker 1: That's exactly the two analogies I always mentioned. People, I say, 181 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 1: you're hip deep in some viscous substance, and now let's 182 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:49,120 Speaker 1: change the viscosity and change and change. And then everybody 183 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:51,720 Speaker 1: wore black clothes and smoked and drank a lot of coffee. 184 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:55,520 Speaker 1: I did that for two years, principally because studio. Yeah, 185 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:58,679 Speaker 1: I was in the Strasburg was I really So that's 186 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 1: why you say hip deep and avy and drinking coffee. Yeah, 187 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:06,280 Speaker 1: that's what I went to. Who are your teachers? Ms? 188 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 1: Sandr Marsha No, yes, yes, Jeff he was my teacher. 189 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:17,920 Speaker 1: Who yes, Yeah, I mean that was that was I 190 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:21,080 Speaker 1: I enjoyed it. I just um, I just wanted to 191 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:24,600 Speaker 1: study more things while I was in school, and then 192 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 1: I kind of got away from it. I think it 193 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 1: was a very good thing because I guess as an 194 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:30,000 Speaker 1: actor you have to audition a lot, and I don't 195 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 1: think you know, I guess that's your real job, not 196 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:36,480 Speaker 1: actually acting, and for most people, a few people actually 197 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 1: have the opportunity. I think that's that that's that's potentially right. 198 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:42,080 Speaker 1: And I also think that the job is really what 199 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:44,680 Speaker 1: do you do with your stuff when you're not acting? Yeah. 200 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:47,079 Speaker 1: I always say to people, the task is to find 201 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:50,599 Speaker 1: out how much you like acting, because you're going to 202 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:52,880 Speaker 1: get to do so little of it. So what I 203 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:54,679 Speaker 1: found out when I was at acting school and why 204 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:57,720 Speaker 1: I stayed with it for two years, is I really 205 00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:01,080 Speaker 1: I had discovered the nightlife in New York City, and 206 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 1: I had never had a social life in high school 207 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:06,280 Speaker 1: because I had so many you know, my god, you're 208 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 1: my doppel gang or keep going, Really, what happened to me? 209 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 1: I'm in New York. I got a couple of bucks 210 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:13,480 Speaker 1: in my pocket. My what's party? Yeah? Well it was wasted. 211 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:16,800 Speaker 1: It was extraordinary. And I mean as a as a 212 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:18,680 Speaker 1: as a young woman in New York City, you're really 213 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:20,920 Speaker 1: sort of taken up. And I was weird in high school, 214 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:24,120 Speaker 1: you know, because I was really too enthusiastic. I was 215 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:27,960 Speaker 1: involved in all of these extracurricular activitis. And I was 216 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:30,440 Speaker 1: in the I founded the debate club with one other 217 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:33,520 Speaker 1: with one other student. He was the president because he 218 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:35,680 Speaker 1: was a senior, and I was the vice president because 219 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:39,360 Speaker 1: I was a freshman, and we were the only members. 220 00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:41,520 Speaker 1: That was the club for independent thought. There was the 221 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:43,560 Speaker 1: drama club, of course, and then I was president of 222 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 1: my class and um whils. I was in the I 223 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:50,400 Speaker 1: was in the kick line, the dance team, the swim team. 224 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:53,520 Speaker 1: I was in running. But then my knees gave out, 225 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:58,480 Speaker 1: so I was just really busy all the time. Um. 226 00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 1: But then when I came to college, it was like 227 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:02,880 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you don't have to do anything. 228 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:05,760 Speaker 1: You don't you barely have to go to class. There's 229 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:08,439 Speaker 1: no required of you. Yeah, so I was like oh 230 00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 1: now I can. Just so the real work was at night, 231 00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:12,640 Speaker 1: you know, going out, being out until like five in 232 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:17,400 Speaker 1: the morning, and um at that time, let's see, there 233 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:19,679 Speaker 1: was a remember the first time I went to a 234 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:24,199 Speaker 1: nightclub called Chaos, and it was like the world broke open. 235 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:28,640 Speaker 1: And and the thing is I was so weird in 236 00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 1: high school. But then all of these men they thought 237 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:33,360 Speaker 1: I was so sophisticated and interesting. That's what they said. 238 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:36,560 Speaker 1: I understand, you know, and they were like, you don't 239 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:39,520 Speaker 1: really you don't seem eighteen. I thought for sure you 240 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:41,920 Speaker 1: were twenty one. I thought this was that meant I 241 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 1: was sophisticated. They were just saying, like, I thought you 242 00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:47,840 Speaker 1: were like legal and on the level that I could 243 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 1: feed you. And I wasn't get in trouble as I'm 244 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:56,080 Speaker 1: passing you this Manhattan. Yeah, when you stopped going to 245 00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:59,600 Speaker 1: the drama program and you transferred to Gallatin correct and 246 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:02,160 Speaker 1: when you transferred to Galaton, you study philosophy and literature 247 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:06,000 Speaker 1: sort of, Yeah, yeah, that's what did they call it 248 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:09,400 Speaker 1: a Gallaton? They call it individualized studies. So basically you 249 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:12,600 Speaker 1: could just string together, yeah, would be as many books 250 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:15,280 Speaker 1: as possible. And then and then when you left in 251 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:17,559 Speaker 1: your heart. You left acting. You did not only leave 252 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:19,360 Speaker 1: the acting program. You decided I'm not going to be 253 00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:21,560 Speaker 1: an actress. Did not do that. I want, I figured 254 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:24,200 Speaker 1: I would be an actress after after college, but I 255 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:26,920 Speaker 1: just didn't need to do that. Yeah, I could do 256 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:29,200 Speaker 1: that later, But then the further I got from them, 257 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:32,719 Speaker 1: she went two years to uh Gallaton and you were 258 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:36,120 Speaker 1: studying independent thought? Were you writing then? I was? I 259 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:39,560 Speaker 1: was writing poetry. But you but you discount that and say, 260 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:44,920 Speaker 1: no serious writing until Why No, I was writing somewhat seriously, 261 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:48,200 Speaker 1: but I mean I wasn't writing with the kind of 262 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:51,000 Speaker 1: rigor to really put together a body of work. You know, 263 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:55,960 Speaker 1: I was dabbling or calling myself a writer, But I mean, 264 00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:59,120 Speaker 1: you really need to put in many many hours, well 265 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:05,880 Speaker 1: hours every day to be a writer consistently. Um. So 266 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:07,760 Speaker 1: before that, I just did a lot of drinking and 267 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 1: talking about writing and then you know, a little writing. 268 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:12,520 Speaker 1: And when you say you did a lot of drinking, 269 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:16,240 Speaker 1: was that something that you were doing um with groups 270 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:18,439 Speaker 1: of people with friends and it was all social and 271 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:21,800 Speaker 1: carefree and reckless. Or were you like going home and 272 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:25,600 Speaker 1: cracking open a bottle of old Smuggler and having that 273 00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:29,640 Speaker 1: at four in the morning by yourself or both? Um? Yeah, both. 274 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:32,560 Speaker 1: I mean I guess when I first started drinking, I 275 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:38,960 Speaker 1: actually started drinking. Um, I mean yeah, I guess. There 276 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:40,960 Speaker 1: were a few times where I drank alone, mainly because 277 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:43,480 Speaker 1: I wanted to make sure that I wasn't doing it 278 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 1: out of pure pressure. Do I really enjoy this? It 279 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:51,120 Speaker 1: turns out I did. I don't need you. Yeah, But 280 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 1: I mean it was both social and you know, and 281 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:57,960 Speaker 1: then eventually it's just it's great all the time. And 282 00:14:58,000 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 1: were you crushing on these men that were trying to 283 00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 1: buy these Manhattan's when you were trying to figure out 284 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:05,360 Speaker 1: if you were really twenty one years old? Um? Some 285 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:07,800 Speaker 1: of them I liked. I guess sometimes I just like 286 00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:10,440 Speaker 1: that they liked me. You know, it's always you wanted 287 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 1: to be adored. Yeah, it doesn't everyone two years at Gallaton. 288 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:19,880 Speaker 1: So you're done after four years and you leave college 289 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:24,720 Speaker 1: and you say you want to what. Well, I wanted 290 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 1: to be a writer obviously at that point. I mean 291 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:29,960 Speaker 1: I always do that. I always wanted to actress actings 292 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:32,520 Speaker 1: over No, I still wanted to be an actor, I mean, 293 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:34,600 Speaker 1: and I had thought maybe I'd be a movie star 294 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:38,680 Speaker 1: to support my writing, you know, reasonable stuff. There you 295 00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 1: go again and UM and then I then I had 296 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:46,880 Speaker 1: an idea to maybe be um a business mogul to 297 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 1: support my acting, which would support the writing. UM, so 298 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:55,720 Speaker 1: human rights were it was all business mogul movie star. Yeah. 299 00:15:55,840 --> 00:15:59,400 Speaker 1: Well I actually, I mean I did. I was a teacher. 300 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:02,640 Speaker 1: I talked, I so so, but but I didn't do 301 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:05,200 Speaker 1: it for any good reason. I mean I had I 302 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:08,240 Speaker 1: was teaching with Teach for America teachers and teaching fellows 303 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 1: at a at at a troubled school in the South Bronx. 304 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:13,120 Speaker 1: How long did you do that? Um? I did it 305 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:15,120 Speaker 1: for a year and then it was the school was 306 00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:18,480 Speaker 1: taken over by the state, so they got rid of everyone, 307 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:20,520 Speaker 1: and then I went to UM. Then I went to 308 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:24,160 Speaker 1: a different school. How many years total teaching to to 309 00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:26,920 Speaker 1: to that? I was teaching middle school? So you took 310 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:30,680 Speaker 1: two years to teach for no good reason? Well, because 311 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:33,320 Speaker 1: I think because I needed a job. I mean that 312 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:35,560 Speaker 1: I didn't have any good intentions that I was going 313 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 1: to save anyone. But I think this is why I 314 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 1: lasted at the at this public school, because all of 315 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 1: the Teach for America fellows quit within a month because 316 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:47,360 Speaker 1: you know, they were being threatened and things like that. 317 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:50,840 Speaker 1: So were they being threatened by the students. Yes, both 318 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:53,640 Speaker 1: of the eventually ended up having to teach Jim too, 319 00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:55,520 Speaker 1: because both of the gym teachers by the end of 320 00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 1: the year were jumped. It was a very rough school 321 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 1: for your assaulted at all. No, but I was often 322 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:07,760 Speaker 1: sore from breaking up fights. What was it in your 323 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:10,360 Speaker 1: in your mind that I thought you thought you were 324 00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:13,919 Speaker 1: you were born to referee fights among middle school children 325 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:16,119 Speaker 1: in the Bronx. Well, I just needed I mean, I 326 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 1: just have this image of you being like, you know, 327 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:20,199 Speaker 1: here here now enough of that, and you're like stepping 328 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:23,920 Speaker 1: in between like somebody with a broken bottle and a chair. No, actually, 329 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 1: one time someone did have a chair over another another 330 00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:30,200 Speaker 1: kid's head. That wasn't Actually, that wasn't one time. How 331 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 1: many fights did you break up during your two year career? Oh? 332 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:35,920 Speaker 1: It was multiple times a day, right, and then ended 333 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:38,560 Speaker 1: after two years? Why? Well, in order for me to 334 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:41,560 Speaker 1: escape to graduate school and you went to graduate school 335 00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:45,560 Speaker 1: were Um? I went to City College to study writing 336 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:48,639 Speaker 1: for how long? Um? I tried to stretch that out 337 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:51,680 Speaker 1: as long as possible. Again, I mean that's why I say, 338 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:54,720 Speaker 1: first of all, The truth is, graduate school is most 339 00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:56,879 Speaker 1: of the time, unless someone's becoming a doctor, it's pretty 340 00:17:56,920 --> 00:17:59,480 Speaker 1: much a shelter for for kids who just don't want 341 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:02,639 Speaker 1: to grow up. Yeah, And I mean that's why I 342 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 1: had even considered a PhD, because I was like, I'm 343 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:09,600 Speaker 1: just gonna make this last forever. Um. But so I 344 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:12,600 Speaker 1: was there for a few years. I was also teaching 345 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:16,440 Speaker 1: in the I was teaching undergraduate humanities and creative writing 346 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:18,639 Speaker 1: at the same time. And all the time you're doing this, 347 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:22,920 Speaker 1: what's funny to you, what's entertaining to you, what's humored 348 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:25,440 Speaker 1: to you? What are you reading? What are you watching 349 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:28,359 Speaker 1: listening to? Did you go to the theater to the 350 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:30,880 Speaker 1: movies all the time? Well, I was reading. I've I've 351 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:33,240 Speaker 1: always been reading all of the time. But what were 352 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:38,680 Speaker 1: you reading? What were you reading that was funny? Um, 353 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:40,719 Speaker 1: I don't know, perhaps a little bit of Donald barthel 354 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:44,280 Speaker 1: Me Selene Journey to the End of the Night. I 355 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:47,560 Speaker 1: never I've never really read anything that's been exclusively funny. 356 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:51,680 Speaker 1: I like things that are very very serious, but that 357 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:55,680 Speaker 1: make you laugh consistently, because I think that that's more 358 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:58,560 Speaker 1: truthful and how life is, or at least that's how 359 00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 1: I experienced life. Um, were your movie cover? Yeah, I 360 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:11,119 Speaker 1: like to go to the movies alone. That sounds so sad, 361 00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:15,600 Speaker 1: it's perfect. Well, you don't need anybody go to the movies. 362 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:17,840 Speaker 1: It's you. I don't understand the whole world for the 363 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:20,399 Speaker 1: people up there on screen. Why do people go with 364 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:22,800 Speaker 1: other people? They just chew and then they look at 365 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:25,400 Speaker 1: you and you can hear them breathing. I don't understand 366 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:28,880 Speaker 1: going to the movies with another person. Um, I love 367 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:31,080 Speaker 1: going to the movies alone. That's the way to do it. 368 00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:33,760 Speaker 1: And if you can, if you to go in the 369 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:35,920 Speaker 1: afternoon to a movie that's been out and really for 370 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:38,560 Speaker 1: a really long time, and you have the whole theater, 371 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:41,760 Speaker 1: especially in New York City. I mean when I was younger, 372 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:43,960 Speaker 1: I was living in a very small place. Now it's 373 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:47,040 Speaker 1: just small, but my early place was very small. So 374 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:51,400 Speaker 1: you go to this place and it's this huge room 375 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:54,399 Speaker 1: all to yourself. I mean it's like you're you're like 376 00:19:54,440 --> 00:20:03,560 Speaker 1: a kid for a little Yes, coming up smiles, talks 377 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:06,119 Speaker 1: about what she used to do with many of her days, 378 00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:15,119 Speaker 1: drink heavily explore the Here's the thing archives. I spoke 379 00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:18,280 Speaker 1: with the late Elaine Stritch, who wasn't a native New Yorker, 380 00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:21,880 Speaker 1: but became one of the city's most iconic residents. When 381 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:25,080 Speaker 1: she retired and finally left the city, she knew what 382 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:28,719 Speaker 1: she was going to miss. The personality of human beings 383 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 1: in New York. They are so opened and second, they're 384 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:40,639 Speaker 1: not watching what they're doing. They're not you know, they're 385 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:44,920 Speaker 1: they're not watching their language, They're not watching anything. They're 386 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:50,440 Speaker 1: just going through life saying what. Yeah, all right, fuck 387 00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:54,920 Speaker 1: you take a listen at Here's the Thing dot org. 388 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:09,159 Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin and you were listening to Here's 389 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:13,080 Speaker 1: the Thing. Author Irish Smiles is honest about her life. 390 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:16,880 Speaker 1: Both of her books humorously deal with very real issues 391 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:20,840 Speaker 1: of alienation and self abuse. Both of these were present 392 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:23,280 Speaker 1: in her life even when she was in graduate school 393 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:27,640 Speaker 1: and working jobs on the side. I was teaching creative 394 00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:31,200 Speaker 1: writing and humanities at the at the school to undergraduates, 395 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 1: and I had picked up some some jobs waitressing and 396 00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:37,080 Speaker 1: as a hostess. But I wasn't good at those so 397 00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:41,520 Speaker 1: because um I had well, I was drinking really heavily. 398 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:44,880 Speaker 1: Uh so, and then they gave me this brunch. Also, 399 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:46,879 Speaker 1: I'm just not a good waitress, but they gave me 400 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:49,760 Speaker 1: this brunch shift, right, So I would go out and 401 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:52,080 Speaker 1: I would drink until four in the morning or five, 402 00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:54,879 Speaker 1: and then I would have to be there later. And 403 00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 1: usually it was like I don't know, I was coming 404 00:21:57,280 --> 00:21:59,080 Speaker 1: off some kind of bender. And then I had to 405 00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:02,680 Speaker 1: um carry the drinks during brunch, which was really it's 406 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:05,680 Speaker 1: really hard to carry a tray with drinks, and especially 407 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:09,119 Speaker 1: when you have the shakes so like that the glasses 408 00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:12,080 Speaker 1: are rattling all over the place unless you drink one 409 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 1: and and then I mean so every I mean I 410 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:19,520 Speaker 1: spilled a lot of drinks or sometimes the customers would 411 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:23,560 Speaker 1: catch them in time, you know, because I would lower 412 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:26,920 Speaker 1: the I would lower the tray really slowly. Many people 413 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:29,000 Speaker 1: came there. It was kind of a game see if 414 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:31,399 Speaker 1: you can catch the drinks when they well. One of 415 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:33,400 Speaker 1: the games was I was so bad at the job 416 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:35,919 Speaker 1: that the manager was like, are you sure you should 417 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:37,760 Speaker 1: be in service? But then every time you tried to 418 00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:39,960 Speaker 1: broach the subject of my quitting, I would start to 419 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:42,080 Speaker 1: tear up because I was very sensitive and wanted to 420 00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 1: do well. And then it became sort of a game 421 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:46,399 Speaker 1: like who am I going to quit? Or is he 422 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:49,200 Speaker 1: going to fire me? The people around you know, like 423 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:52,760 Speaker 1: like whoever you were close with, friends, family, did they 424 00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:57,160 Speaker 1: know you had a drinking problem? Well it was anybody 425 00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:01,200 Speaker 1: uh trying to intercede there, know, because I was really 426 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:03,919 Speaker 1: great at drinking. I mean there was. That's why it 427 00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:06,439 Speaker 1: was hard. It was hard to stop. I mean I 428 00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:09,760 Speaker 1: was That's like pretty much that was my main thing. 429 00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:17,920 Speaker 1: That was like my art form partying. Um. Yeah, drink 430 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:20,720 Speaker 1: at home. Yeah, and maybe have some you know, have some, 431 00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:23,440 Speaker 1: have a friend over. I don't know, it just sort 432 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:26,160 Speaker 1: of it's not that it would begin. It basically never stopped. 433 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:30,480 Speaker 1: You know. To say where it begins is like I 434 00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:37,919 Speaker 1: don't know, um birth um. But but so it was 435 00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:39,679 Speaker 1: hard to give up because that was so much of 436 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:41,960 Speaker 1: my identity and people around me loved it because I 437 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:44,400 Speaker 1: was always giving parties and I was creating a lot 438 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:47,240 Speaker 1: of fun. I mean I wasn't a miserable drink. I 439 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:50,920 Speaker 1: was drunk. I was. It was just hurting me. Um. 440 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:52,680 Speaker 1: And also I mean the reason that I gave it 441 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:57,440 Speaker 1: up is because I wanted to become something I wanted. 442 00:23:57,480 --> 00:23:59,399 Speaker 1: I mean I realized that like, you know, you you 443 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:01,760 Speaker 1: drink and you have created a wonderful time, But what 444 00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:05,960 Speaker 1: do you, what have you made? And so I wanted 445 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:08,800 Speaker 1: to be a writer. I wanted to make something. So 446 00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:11,159 Speaker 1: when did that change? When you did you decide that 447 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:14,800 Speaker 1: drinking was not compatible with who you really wanted to be? Well, 448 00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:17,159 Speaker 1: it was really becoming harder and harder to keep doing it, 449 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:22,160 Speaker 1: I mean physically, Um that hangovers were becoming pretty bad. 450 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,159 Speaker 1: I just started to realize that I was kind of 451 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:29,399 Speaker 1: I was getting further and further away from anything that 452 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:32,360 Speaker 1: I ever wanted to do. And I had big dreams 453 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:36,639 Speaker 1: and I just was not getting anywhere near them. And um, 454 00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:41,919 Speaker 1: I figured, either I have to revise my dreams, my aspirations, um, 455 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:44,760 Speaker 1: or make a change in my life in order to 456 00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:48,440 Speaker 1: actually accomplish something. And you did make that change. I did, 457 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:51,800 Speaker 1: and it was kind of the most exciting. I say, 458 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,520 Speaker 1: the biggest adventure and the most exciting time of my 459 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:59,479 Speaker 1: life was five years I spent I'd completely retired from 460 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:04,399 Speaker 1: social and I was just kind of writing and living 461 00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:06,440 Speaker 1: like a monk, I mean on the outside of the 462 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:12,880 Speaker 1: after graduate school. Yeah, year around I was I guess 463 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:16,200 Speaker 1: when you went into the cave, when I went into 464 00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:18,200 Speaker 1: the cave, And then I kind of came out five 465 00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:22,639 Speaker 1: years later with a book and happily got it published 466 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:25,800 Speaker 1: and and now I'm sort of, you know, trying to 467 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:28,760 Speaker 1: be a human again. So what I wonder is when 468 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:30,600 Speaker 1: you go into this kind of cloister, when you go 469 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:33,280 Speaker 1: into the cave, why don't you stay there? If it 470 00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:41,280 Speaker 1: was so fruitful, Ultimately you're missing it was great. But 471 00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:43,600 Speaker 1: I don't I think again it was. It was an 472 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:46,439 Speaker 1: extreme and it's not sustainable in the same way that 473 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:49,080 Speaker 1: I mean basically, I took everything that I was giving 474 00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:51,560 Speaker 1: to like my drinking and party lifestyle, and put it 475 00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:56,480 Speaker 1: into into work. And I don't think that you know this, 476 00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:59,080 Speaker 1: the pendulum swings and it has to come back another 477 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:02,440 Speaker 1: another obsession. Yeah, and so it was, it was good. 478 00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:05,720 Speaker 1: But now I'm I'm trying to sort of cultivate some 479 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:07,840 Speaker 1: kind of balance, and you know, I want to have 480 00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:11,080 Speaker 1: a have a personal life, so I'm trying to figure 481 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:15,080 Speaker 1: that out. Um, although it's I'm very intense, it would 482 00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:18,719 Speaker 1: be a lot I long for the cave in truth, 483 00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:24,360 Speaker 1: but you know, it's a new challenge to sort of 484 00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:28,200 Speaker 1: be balanced in the middle. Moderate but doesn't sounds like terrible. 485 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:30,480 Speaker 1: Who wants to be moderate at anything? And you came 486 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:34,320 Speaker 1: out with the book called iris has free time? What 487 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:36,600 Speaker 1: do you do? What? What do you do with a book? 488 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:39,159 Speaker 1: If you're a writer and you write a book and 489 00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:44,000 Speaker 1: your parents aren't at cannap for something and or Simon 490 00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:49,000 Speaker 1: and Schuster and you're you're you're you with all of 491 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:51,600 Speaker 1: the defining things about who you are? What do you 492 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:53,000 Speaker 1: do with that book when you're done? Where do you 493 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:57,720 Speaker 1: go with it? Well, happily I had met um, a 494 00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:04,360 Speaker 1: professor at City College who liked my work and encouraged 495 00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:07,920 Speaker 1: me to keep writing, and so I showed it to him, 496 00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:11,720 Speaker 1: and then he introduced me or referred me to a 497 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:15,280 Speaker 1: few different agents, which means that they, you know, put 498 00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:18,000 Speaker 1: my cover letter at the top, and then rejected me 499 00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:20,919 Speaker 1: before all of the other all of the other people. 500 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:25,000 Speaker 1: But then one of them, finally, one of them kind 501 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:27,360 Speaker 1: of took me, took me on, and so we made 502 00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:30,600 Speaker 1: our way and got the book out um because of 503 00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:36,479 Speaker 1: how it was published by Counterpoint Um. But those meetings 504 00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:38,160 Speaker 1: like for you, when you're pitching a book or you're 505 00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:42,000 Speaker 1: selling a book to them, what's it like for you? 506 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,600 Speaker 1: You know, out of a period of intense isolation, if 507 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:46,520 Speaker 1: you will, and now you've got to be a bit 508 00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:50,320 Speaker 1: more collaborative. Was that difficult for you to collaborate with them? Um? 509 00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:54,239 Speaker 1: It was terrible. It was how much did they want 510 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:56,520 Speaker 1: to change your book? Well? I mean, and that was 511 00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:58,919 Speaker 1: that's why it was a little bit of a process. 512 00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:02,679 Speaker 1: In the beginning. I had seen a couple of agents 513 00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:05,879 Speaker 1: who who liked it, but they were like, yes, but 514 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:08,080 Speaker 1: what we wanted you need to change it all around 515 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:10,760 Speaker 1: and do this and and so that was really scary 516 00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:14,840 Speaker 1: because after five years you think, well, this is my chance. 517 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:17,920 Speaker 1: Do I go agree with them or But I didn't 518 00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:19,560 Speaker 1: want to change it. I didn't believe in that. So 519 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:23,240 Speaker 1: I took a risk and I, um sort of stuck 520 00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:26,879 Speaker 1: to my guns, found another agent, finally found a publisher 521 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:31,880 Speaker 1: who didn't also didn't want me to change it. Um. 522 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:33,320 Speaker 1: And it was just sort of the same thing with 523 00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:36,719 Speaker 1: my with my second book. Um, I think you know 524 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:40,360 Speaker 1: it's an editor is is important, but it has to 525 00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:43,680 Speaker 1: be the right editor. In your first book, did you 526 00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:50,480 Speaker 1: have the right editor to some degree? Even? Sure? Sure woman, yes, 527 00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:53,560 Speaker 1: But I I think that What I mean is that 528 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:58,080 Speaker 1: lots of people and now I think, especially now there's 529 00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:00,680 Speaker 1: there's this idea of like writing as much more collaborative 530 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:03,440 Speaker 1: and so a lot of people put their hands on it, 531 00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:05,400 Speaker 1: and I don't think that's a good idea. I think 532 00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:08,160 Speaker 1: that comes from the comes from so many people are 533 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:10,760 Speaker 1: going to graduate school for writing, and so they have 534 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:12,600 Speaker 1: this idea that they're going to like work, shop it 535 00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:15,840 Speaker 1: and put it through the committee, and the more eyes 536 00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:18,640 Speaker 1: it has, the better. And I don't think so I 537 00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:20,480 Speaker 1: don't think it should be collaborative at all. I think 538 00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:24,000 Speaker 1: even you know, really can't be Kenneth No, and it 539 00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:28,120 Speaker 1: gets dulled down, and it should be you know, individual 540 00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:33,160 Speaker 1: and full of I mean, I'd rather see you know better, 541 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:37,680 Speaker 1: that it be imperfect but extravagant than some kind of 542 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:42,720 Speaker 1: like measured. Yeah, when you've been working on your second book, 543 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:44,720 Speaker 1: your your second book is coming out. It just came 544 00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:47,320 Speaker 1: out a month ago. And was it the same publishers 545 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:53,280 Speaker 1: different Hoteon Mifflin Harcourt. Was it better this experience? Um? Different? 546 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 1: The counterpoint is as an independent publisher, and so I 547 00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:01,720 Speaker 1: was the big fish there, so they you know, really 548 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:04,000 Speaker 1: gave it a push. But then at the same time, 549 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:08,320 Speaker 1: because they're an independent publisher, they have less influence. So 550 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:11,920 Speaker 1: now I'm a small fish at a big house. Um. 551 00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:18,680 Speaker 1: So it's been it's been, uh great. I like them, 552 00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:21,680 Speaker 1: and I'm very excited because Houghton Mifflin is also the 553 00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:26,120 Speaker 1: publisher of cliffs Notes, So I feel like that's one 554 00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:31,120 Speaker 1: step closer to publishing cliff Notes from my own book. Yeah, 555 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:36,000 Speaker 1: which is important because then people won't even have to 556 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:38,640 Speaker 1: read my book anymore. They can just you know, study 557 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:41,960 Speaker 1: up on the symbolism and the foreshadowing, which is important. 558 00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:46,720 Speaker 1: Without actually and just you know, my book could disappear completely. 559 00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:49,400 Speaker 1: The title of your first book was Iris Has Free Time? 560 00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:52,160 Speaker 1: Iris Has Free Time? Came out when two thousand and 561 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:55,320 Speaker 1: thirteen June, not too long ago. And how would you 562 00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:58,680 Speaker 1: and how would you characterize, if it'll how you've changed 563 00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:00,720 Speaker 1: as a writer since your second came up, which is 564 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:07,840 Speaker 1: called dating tips for the UM. I think that when 565 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:13,000 Speaker 1: I right now, I UM. I used to have to 566 00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:16,080 Speaker 1: write a lot more before I found the beginning of something, 567 00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:19,720 Speaker 1: and now I kind of have a better sense of 568 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:24,440 Speaker 1: you know, I can get there faster, so there's there's 569 00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:31,200 Speaker 1: less wasted. I'm just you know, I guess, yeah, that's it. Yeah, 570 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:35,120 Speaker 1: I'm getting better with practice. That happens. Where do you 571 00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:38,520 Speaker 1: living now? Oh? I live in UM in New York, 572 00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:44,040 Speaker 1: city over um on the sort of the middle East side, 573 00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:47,640 Speaker 1: which is really nice over there. I moved to around 574 00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:50,360 Speaker 1: Beekman Place, which is I moved there because I'm getting 575 00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:52,640 Speaker 1: on in my years and that's where Anti Maim lived. 576 00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:54,640 Speaker 1: So I feel like I'm entering my main years and 577 00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:59,080 Speaker 1: it's a good place to establish my spinster pad. I 578 00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:02,200 Speaker 1: really like it be a spinsters at a goal. No, 579 00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:06,600 Speaker 1: um no, do you fear that no one will get you? 580 00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:10,080 Speaker 1: Do I fear no one will get me? Um? Yeah, 581 00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:12,120 Speaker 1: I mean I guess I would. I would like to 582 00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:16,080 Speaker 1: meet someone do date? When you date men, Like, when 583 00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:17,400 Speaker 1: you meet a guy that you like, what do you 584 00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:20,479 Speaker 1: typically like about them? Well, that doesn't happen that often, 585 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:25,760 Speaker 1: I like, but it does happen. Describe that you want 586 00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:29,520 Speaker 1: someone who's clever, funny. No, And I don't generally don't 587 00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:31,480 Speaker 1: go in for for looks. I've noticed I sort of 588 00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:33,520 Speaker 1: have a pattern of dating kind of like a lot 589 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:38,720 Speaker 1: of like hideous creatures. Yeah, I don't know. I guess 590 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:42,040 Speaker 1: there was just tend to be more interesting or I 591 00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:43,960 Speaker 1: don't know. I don't think they're hideous, but I mean 592 00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:49,280 Speaker 1: according to the standard, the standard, Um, I mean, they're 593 00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:52,600 Speaker 1: not pretty boys. But you don't care. And I guess 594 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:55,840 Speaker 1: I noticed a slight pattern. I what I go in 595 00:32:55,920 --> 00:33:00,680 Speaker 1: for is like a man I really like man. No, 596 00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:03,320 Speaker 1: no, no no, because he was again hate. I have a 597 00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:07,720 Speaker 1: real thing against him. Um but no, I don't like 598 00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:10,320 Speaker 1: him either because I don't like all those pretensions to 599 00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:13,200 Speaker 1: intellect and all of that. I don't don't like arrogance. 600 00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:16,360 Speaker 1: But so some I've noticed that I have a pattern 601 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:19,239 Speaker 1: with sort of like, um, I guess like dummies, you know, 602 00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:23,640 Speaker 1: because sometimes you know, smarter men don't they're not. They 603 00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:26,040 Speaker 1: sometimes they're not they don't know how to handle me. 604 00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:30,720 Speaker 1: They're nervous. But like a guy who's not that bright 605 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:35,000 Speaker 1: doesn't know enough to be nervous. So he's just so 606 00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:38,960 Speaker 1: he's sort of like you know, just he's just more 607 00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:43,600 Speaker 1: he's just more simple, proactive. Yeah, he's not like doubting, 608 00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:47,880 Speaker 1: he's not worrying and elemental. Yeah. I don't know. I'm 609 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:50,440 Speaker 1: but you don't care what you're single? No I do. 610 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:52,760 Speaker 1: I'd like to meet someone. I'd like to meet someone nice. 611 00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:54,920 Speaker 1: I'm gonna be funny if you met your husband going 612 00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:57,680 Speaker 1: to a costume shop somewhere in Minneola. Oh, that sounds 613 00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:00,560 Speaker 1: so romantic. It could be great. Now before we have 614 00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:04,920 Speaker 1: you read something for us, Um, what are your dating 615 00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:07,120 Speaker 1: tips for the unemployed? Because you yourself, I've never really 616 00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:09,640 Speaker 1: been unemployed, have you? You? When you talk about your life, 617 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:13,320 Speaker 1: that arc is working, working, working and having a job, 618 00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:16,480 Speaker 1: whether it was what you whether it defined you until 619 00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:18,600 Speaker 1: you can get to the point now where you're a writer. Well, 620 00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:21,240 Speaker 1: I've spent Yeah, I've been unemployed. I mean it hasn't 621 00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:24,960 Speaker 1: been even my jobs didn't seem that seriously when you 622 00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:27,839 Speaker 1: had a job, I've always felt unemployed. I guess it's 623 00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:30,319 Speaker 1: the state of life. I think so, And that's why 624 00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:32,160 Speaker 1: I called the book that because it's not all about 625 00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:35,280 Speaker 1: being unemployed. But I think it's, you know, the idea, 626 00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:38,480 Speaker 1: it's it's really I guess if you're trying to date 627 00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:41,160 Speaker 1: when you're unemployed, it's like you're you're a mess, but 628 00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:43,560 Speaker 1: you're trying. You have to make this presentation that you're 629 00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,640 Speaker 1: attractive in some way. And I think I've always felt 630 00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:49,759 Speaker 1: that way at my core, even now when people ask 631 00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:51,600 Speaker 1: me what I do, and I thought it would all 632 00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:54,040 Speaker 1: be solved if I could say a writer or a novelist, 633 00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:57,799 Speaker 1: and now I say I'm a writer. And I feel embarrassed, 634 00:34:57,840 --> 00:34:59,920 Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, I feel like I'm law 635 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:03,840 Speaker 1: dying or it's not true, I'm not writing enough, so 636 00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:05,520 Speaker 1: I don't know if that feeling will ever be over. 637 00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:09,120 Speaker 1: One of your dating tips for the unemployed, Well, um, 638 00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:12,040 Speaker 1: so there's not actually any tips, And I mean the 639 00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:15,200 Speaker 1: book is not actually any tips. It's just it's stories 640 00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:18,360 Speaker 1: that form a novel about, you know, kind of being 641 00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:23,960 Speaker 1: in that awkward period and feeling unformed. But there's one 642 00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:27,520 Speaker 1: piece where there where the character reads an article about 643 00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:32,920 Speaker 1: dating tips for the unemployed, and the tips there there's two. Um, 644 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:38,640 Speaker 1: it's never date anyone more or less miserable than you. Um, 645 00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:44,239 Speaker 1: that's the one tipa exactly because even if if you 646 00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:48,279 Speaker 1: go with someone who is less miserable than you, then eventually, 647 00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:49,759 Speaker 1: and even if you can fake it for a while, 648 00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:52,160 Speaker 1: eventually they'll find out that you're more miserable and they 649 00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:55,319 Speaker 1: just you have to be miserables date each other. Non 650 00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:58,640 Speaker 1: miserables date each other. How do you determine this is 651 00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:00,560 Speaker 1: the next tip. How do you determine and who is 652 00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:03,040 Speaker 1: a miserable and who is a non miserable? Because everyone 653 00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:05,680 Speaker 1: goes around and presents themselves as a non miserable pretty 654 00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:11,919 Speaker 1: much and about their misery very very few. And one 655 00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:14,440 Speaker 1: way that you can determine that is how people answer 656 00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:18,440 Speaker 1: the question what do you do? So if you answer 657 00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:21,360 Speaker 1: it honestly and you say, I'm an accountant or I 658 00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:25,200 Speaker 1: you know, um, I wait tables, then that person is 659 00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:28,000 Speaker 1: pretty okay with themselves. But if they answer it with 660 00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:30,560 Speaker 1: some sort of clever thing, if they say, like, you know, 661 00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:33,920 Speaker 1: I'm a I'm a I make the toast on the 662 00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:39,040 Speaker 1: astronaut whatever, I'm an astronaut toastmaker. You know, somebody their 663 00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:42,160 Speaker 1: breakfast on the space and they're obviously and they don't 664 00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:44,799 Speaker 1: actually do that, you know, but they respond with like 665 00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:48,520 Speaker 1: too much charm, like compulsive charm, almost defensive charm, like 666 00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:51,760 Speaker 1: actually happy people don't feel the need to be that charming, 667 00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:53,920 Speaker 1: which is why, by the way, why I am so 668 00:36:53,960 --> 00:37:01,560 Speaker 1: adorable and charming, because I've spent years compensating for my misery. Um. 669 00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:04,400 Speaker 1: But so yeah, So that's how you can tell. So 670 00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:08,480 Speaker 1: for example, if someone responds if you say like on 671 00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:12,239 Speaker 1: on social media on Facebook, things like that, if it 672 00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:17,799 Speaker 1: says under occupation, if a person writes blowfish right, then 673 00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:22,120 Speaker 1: that person is definitely miserable. If a person writes Bonds Trader, 674 00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:25,920 Speaker 1: that person is not miserable. So the bonds Trader and 675 00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:30,399 Speaker 1: the blowfish will never work out. That's what you need 676 00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:33,840 Speaker 1: to know. Between Do you have a little extrap you 677 00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:38,200 Speaker 1: want to read? I don't know, let me see what 678 00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:43,440 Speaker 1: to read. Whatever amount you read, it's fantastic just to 679 00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:48,120 Speaker 1: go with. Just do whatever you want to do. Um, okay, well, 680 00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:51,520 Speaker 1: since I mentioned uh, I guess I'll read the family 681 00:37:51,560 --> 00:38:03,280 Speaker 1: politics politics right, yeah, sure, okay. My family is downstairs yelling. 682 00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:06,600 Speaker 1: They're not arguing. That's just how they talk. It's a 683 00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:09,400 Speaker 1: Greek thing, that's what we say. But the truth is, 684 00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:11,960 Speaker 1: when we visit Greece, people remark on how loud we are. 685 00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:16,799 Speaker 1: We respond it's an American thing. I'm in my old 686 00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:18,879 Speaker 1: room at my parents house because I just got into 687 00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:21,880 Speaker 1: a fight with my brother Teddy. He was going on 688 00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:25,640 Speaker 1: about the internet, spelling the end of physical books. Lowering 689 00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:28,640 Speaker 1: his voice to just a yell, he said, in the future, 690 00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:31,560 Speaker 1: no one's gonna want your precious little books, Iris. The 691 00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:35,160 Speaker 1: book will be obsolete. I told him he was wrong, 692 00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:38,640 Speaker 1: that people will always want books. Then he said nan 693 00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:41,080 Speaker 1: nan nan nana, and I lost it and ran upstairs. 694 00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:44,719 Speaker 1: So now I'm up here digging out old swimming trophies 695 00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:47,920 Speaker 1: and dance costumes from under my bed. I have a 696 00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:52,520 Speaker 1: trophy from nineteen ninety two that says highest Achiever. I 697 00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:54,440 Speaker 1: dust it off and think about bringing it back to 698 00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:57,319 Speaker 1: my apartment in Manhattan. Maybe I could turn it into 699 00:38:57,320 --> 00:39:01,640 Speaker 1: a cigarette holder or something. I try on a blue 700 00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:04,400 Speaker 1: ballet costume, and I'm excited to find it still fits. 701 00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:07,160 Speaker 1: I look at myself in the mirror and think about 702 00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:10,800 Speaker 1: Zelda Fitzgerald. She was my age when she took up ballet. 703 00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:15,240 Speaker 1: Taking stock of my reflection, I understand for the first 704 00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:20,280 Speaker 1: time her insanity. I turn in my tutu and notice 705 00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:23,680 Speaker 1: my thighs are thicker than they used to be. I'm 706 00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:29,000 Speaker 1: an oversized child, a monster of wilted potential. I put 707 00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:30,920 Speaker 1: on my point shoes and attempt a few poses in 708 00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:34,759 Speaker 1: front of the mirror. After a while, I changed back 709 00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:38,640 Speaker 1: into my regular clothes and head downstairs. Everyone is standing 710 00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:41,600 Speaker 1: around the kitchen table yelling at the top of their lungs, 711 00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:45,960 Speaker 1: agreeing that Bush has betrayed the party. I hold up 712 00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:48,480 Speaker 1: a hanger with the tutu on it and ask my mom, 713 00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:52,799 Speaker 1: what's the best way to remove wrinkles from tool. What 714 00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:55,279 Speaker 1: do you want with that old thing? Now throw it out? 715 00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:58,520 Speaker 1: No way, I say, I can't believe you had it 716 00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:00,640 Speaker 1: all scrunched up in a bag. I could use it 717 00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:04,439 Speaker 1: for a Halloween costume or my author photo. A web 718 00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:07,120 Speaker 1: magazine is going to publish one of my stories this spring. 719 00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:11,160 Speaker 1: Oh god, she says, steam it. Maybe hang it in 720 00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:15,759 Speaker 1: the shower. I pull out the blue tool. Worry a 721 00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:18,480 Speaker 1: loose sequin. Then sit at the end of the table 722 00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:22,640 Speaker 1: and listen. I don't know how to talk to them. 723 00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:25,680 Speaker 1: All they ever talk about is politics, which I've given up, 724 00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:29,440 Speaker 1: having decided long ago that cultivating opinions about politics is 725 00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:34,120 Speaker 1: against my better interests. I lean right economically, which as 726 00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:36,240 Speaker 1: a writer would put me at odds with the artistic 727 00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:40,520 Speaker 1: and academic communities in which I work. I recognize my 728 00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:45,719 Speaker 1: views are somewhat paradoxical. For example, idealistically speaking, I'm a 729 00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:50,200 Speaker 1: rugged individualist. The government is a necessary evil, I like 730 00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:54,839 Speaker 1: to say, like boyfriends. But practically speaking, were it not 731 00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:58,200 Speaker 1: for my parents, I would need government handouts more than anyone. 732 00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:03,200 Speaker 1: I'm prime welfare material, in fact, trying to assuage my 733 00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:07,000 Speaker 1: father's disappointment in the maccayan candidacy last election. My mother 734 00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:10,520 Speaker 1: told him, on the bright side, if Obama is elected, 735 00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:15,239 Speaker 1: the government will help us support IRIS. It's pretty well 736 00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:17,840 Speaker 1: understood in my family that I can't take care of myself, 737 00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:20,759 Speaker 1: which is why family values are so important to me. 738 00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:24,160 Speaker 1: It's paramount that I marry so as to preserve my 739 00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:28,160 Speaker 1: identity as a rugged individualist. If my parents ever cut 740 00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:30,160 Speaker 1: me loose and I were forced to rely on the 741 00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:34,399 Speaker 1: state for support, my whole ideology would crumble. I don't 742 00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:37,960 Speaker 1: approve of social programs. F DR ruined this country with 743 00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:40,839 Speaker 1: this pink O rescue plan. Let those in need pull 744 00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:44,080 Speaker 1: up their socks, I say, all while dreaming of the 745 00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:48,040 Speaker 1: day that my parents burden me might be transferred to 746 00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:51,000 Speaker 1: a rich husband and I might continue to cultivate my 747 00:41:51,080 --> 00:42:00,920 Speaker 1: pioneer spirit in safety. Fantastic pantest. What's your favorite holiday? Halloween? 748 00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:08,000 Speaker 1: Of course? Are you writing another book now? Um? Yes, 749 00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:11,080 Speaker 1: I'm I'm completing I'm starting a new novel, but I'm 750 00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:15,440 Speaker 1: completing a volume of light verse, sort of called Girls 751 00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:19,799 Speaker 1: Who Wear Glasses. It's poems about you know, love and 752 00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:27,440 Speaker 1: partying and and sex. Um, but they rhyme. It's a 753 00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:31,360 Speaker 1: sort of updated Dorothy Parker Ogden Nash kind of thing rhyming. 754 00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:36,080 Speaker 1: I mean, who doesn't love that Irish smiles. Dating Tips 755 00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:41,680 Speaker 1: for the Unemployed is available in bookstores now. Oh, I 756 00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:43,719 Speaker 1: forgot to give you your prime. Oh my god, I'm 757 00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:47,040 Speaker 1: so glad you reminded me. Okay, now tell tell our 758 00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:49,400 Speaker 1: listeners what exactly it is I'm getting. I won the 759 00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:53,160 Speaker 1: blurb Contest, the National blurb Contest that's right for your book, 760 00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:55,480 Speaker 1: for my book, and the blurb Contest of the The 761 00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:59,120 Speaker 1: award ceremony was held where at the Econo Lodge in 762 00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:01,719 Speaker 1: New York City, in the lobby next to the ice 763 00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:05,400 Speaker 1: machine at six am during their free continental breakfast. I 764 00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:07,440 Speaker 1: was so sorry I couldn't make it. I told you 765 00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:10,440 Speaker 1: I was crushed. I'm sorry you couldn't make it too. 766 00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:12,839 Speaker 1: Did you accept on my behalf? I did? I did? 767 00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:16,239 Speaker 1: May I see it? Yes? Um? So this is your 768 00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:18,680 Speaker 1: whole price package. It comes with it, IRIS has free 769 00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:22,839 Speaker 1: time bag. My god, I mean. And then here's your 770 00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:30,239 Speaker 1: award for your actual blurb. I love it. And of 771 00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:33,680 Speaker 1: course there you know it is a signed copy of 772 00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:35,719 Speaker 1: the book. A signed copy of the book with your 773 00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:38,120 Speaker 1: blurb printed on the back. Now in the book, and 774 00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:40,200 Speaker 1: the book that's been published is my blurb on the 775 00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:44,480 Speaker 1: back of the book. Is not an alternate version. You 776 00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:46,400 Speaker 1: just have these made up for me as a gift. 777 00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:49,120 Speaker 1: I'm on the book. You you've made it. Have you 778 00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:52,000 Speaker 1: ever eaten entimates? Oh? Yes, I love them? Did I 779 00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:54,040 Speaker 1: say I didn't read this book and I didn't have to. 780 00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:57,239 Speaker 1: On the cover it said Irish smiles and that's more 781 00:43:57,280 --> 00:44:00,960 Speaker 1: than enough for me. Like logos for Coca Cola, Frido's 782 00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:05,600 Speaker 1: and antimons Iris's name assures me that what's inside is 783 00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:11,440 Speaker 1: so yummy. This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to 784 00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:12,200 Speaker 1: here's the thing.