1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio Happy Friday. I am Tracy be 3 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:17,480 Speaker 1: Wilson and I'm Holly fry So. One of our episodes 4 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:19,840 Speaker 1: this week was about the myth of the Lost Cause 5 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: of the Confederacy, which I know is still a highly 6 00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 1: emotional topic for a lot of people. Yes, it is 7 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:34,320 Speaker 1: from numerous directions. Um. I don't mean to laugh because 8 00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:38,480 Speaker 1: it's not a problem. It's just funny how it continues. 9 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 1: Everything's a little absurd to me, uh in life. So 10 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:47,880 Speaker 1: anytime I laugh and it seems disrespectful, I'm just laughing 11 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:50,880 Speaker 1: at the human condition because it's all I can do. Yeah, 12 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:53,479 Speaker 1: as I was working at it, I was thinking, do 13 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:56,080 Speaker 1: I have family members who fought for the Confederacy. I 14 00:00:56,240 --> 00:01:00,800 Speaker 1: must have, because like I know that that my family 15 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:06,200 Speaker 1: has been in in North Carolina for at least a 16 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:10,679 Speaker 1: hundred and eighty years or something. Um. And so fortunately 17 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:13,640 Speaker 1: my brother had made a family tree, and I started 18 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:17,240 Speaker 1: poking through that just to sort of satisfy my own 19 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 1: curiosity because it wasn't something it was something that I 20 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:23,800 Speaker 1: assumed but didn't actually know. Um. I feel like as 21 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:26,319 Speaker 1: a child, I had this latent hope that maybe some 22 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:28,640 Speaker 1: North Carolina ancestor had run off to the North and 23 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 1: fought for the union, and I think some family member 24 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:33,440 Speaker 1: had been like, no, that didn't happen. But yeah, I 25 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:35,120 Speaker 1: started poking through it, and I was like, ah, yeah, 26 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 1: here's multiple people. Here's somebody who died of disease in Richmond, 27 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 1: and uh, like, I think it was a second great 28 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 1: grandfather who did not personally serve, but who had two 29 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 1: older brothers who were killed in action. There were multiple 30 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 1: which was not surprising considering, you know, knowing for a 31 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 1: fact that most of my family, or possibly all of them, 32 00:01:57,880 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 1: were in North Carolina in the mid nineteenth century. I 33 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:07,880 Speaker 1: did not have any family in the South during its 34 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 1: almost Um, yeah, I don't. I don't, like I said, 35 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:12,120 Speaker 1: Like I said at the end of the episode, I 36 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:14,919 Speaker 1: feel a little bit weird. This gets into like personal psychology, 37 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 1: but I just don't have that like identity connection through 38 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:24,680 Speaker 1: time to the family tree. Sure, like it's I know 39 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 1: some of those facts, but I've I've never been like 40 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:32,200 Speaker 1: and that is what created me. I don't know. It's 41 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 1: just because I was always a rebellious little brat that 42 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 1: tended to like dismiss an issue everything related two expectations 43 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:47,920 Speaker 1: of my family or if I just don't have that gene. Yeah, yeah. Um. 44 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 1: One of the things that I tried to make clear 45 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 1: in the episode, but I hope I made clear enough, 46 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 1: is that, like, the South takes a lot of criticism 47 00:02:56,720 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 1: for the preponderance of this narrative, but like as was 48 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 1: a case and so many things and the history of 49 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 1: the United States, the North was complicit in this too, 50 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:10,800 Speaker 1: So it's not something It's not like the the Southern 51 00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 1: you know, political and public figures made something up that 52 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 1: you know, the northern political establishment fought back hard against. 53 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 1: Right there, there really just was a sense of, oh, 54 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 1: if we can just keep the peace with the South, 55 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:29,359 Speaker 1: everything will be better. Even though that meant just like 56 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:34,320 Speaker 1: disregarding all of the black Americans had you know, been 57 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 1: through generational trauma and meaningfully harmed by all of this 58 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:40,920 Speaker 1: in so many ways, it becomes an interesting thing to me. 59 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 1: I think you you framed it so beautifully in your 60 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 1: outline is saying like it prioritized the union and the 61 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 1: comfort and emotional well being of white people over the 62 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 1: people they had actually harmed and what had started the war, 63 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 1: And what becomes really interesting to me to think about. 64 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:58,800 Speaker 1: And this gets into a whole like political theory space 65 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 1: that I'm not really equip to do. But it's like, 66 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 1: if you are making concessions of that nature that devalue 67 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:10,880 Speaker 1: other human beings to preserve a thing, what are you 68 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 1: actually preserving? Right? Is that a worthwhile union? At that point? 69 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 1: I know that's a terrible sentiment and probably it will 70 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 1: make a lot of people angry, But it's just from 71 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:25,360 Speaker 1: a theoretical point of view, one of those things where 72 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 1: I'm like, where do you get to the point where 73 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 1: you're like, yes, we can negotiate through this by ignoring 74 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 1: all of the harm that took place and you know, 75 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 1: kind of like coddling around it. Yeah, it's a very 76 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 1: strange thing to wrap my head around. Um. I also 77 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 1: did want to, like, I did not reference the involvement 78 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:50,159 Speaker 1: of Indigenous people or the effects of the war on 79 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:52,560 Speaker 1: Indigenous people at all, because that feels like, in a 80 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:56,160 Speaker 1: lot of ways, an entire separate episode. But I did 81 00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 1: want to acknowledge that, like, yes, that also was a 82 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:02,080 Speaker 1: whole fact or of it, of the Civil War that 83 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:04,720 Speaker 1: involved oh kinds of pieces that we did not talk 84 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:08,200 Speaker 1: about in this episode. Man, it's such a weird year, 85 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:10,600 Speaker 1: and I have no idea what's going to be happening 86 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:14,640 Speaker 1: when this episode. We moved this episode, this episode ahead 87 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:17,880 Speaker 1: of the line because, in a similar situation to what 88 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:20,159 Speaker 1: we talked about in the listener mail of this episode, 89 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:23,960 Speaker 1: we we have been working ahead because we're each going 90 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:26,520 Speaker 1: to be out at the end of the year, and 91 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 1: so we got to write episodes to get so there's 92 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:33,160 Speaker 1: podcasts while we're gone, And so similarly, um, we have 93 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:36,840 Speaker 1: some weeks of podcasts that are already recorded. Um, And 94 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:39,800 Speaker 1: we moved this one up ahead of some things in 95 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:44,120 Speaker 1: the line, both just for some seasonal reasons, but then 96 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:47,719 Speaker 1: also the less time would elapse between recording it and 97 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 1: having it come out. Yeah, I feel like the juggles 98 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:55,919 Speaker 1: we do of our calendar would probably be like a 99 00:05:56,040 --> 00:06:00,839 Speaker 1: slightly dry but still rather witty sitcom, like, well but 100 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:03,480 Speaker 1: if we move this to here, wait wait wait wait wait, 101 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 1: that won't work. Go back, go back, go back. Wait 102 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:08,480 Speaker 1: when when is Casey going to be out? Is? Can 103 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:11,320 Speaker 1: he edit that? We have a lot of back and 104 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 1: forth online that is exactly that conversation in vary considerations. Yeah, yeah, 105 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 1: you've been a thing. Yeah, uh, I was so delighted 106 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:28,839 Speaker 1: that this week I finally got to talk with Curry 107 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 1: Sautner for the show. She and I have been trying 108 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 1: to figure out when we could get her on and 109 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:35,040 Speaker 1: when our schedules could work out so we could have 110 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:38,279 Speaker 1: a chat, and I was so excited that it finally happened. 111 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 1: She's like one of the most energetic and compelling guests 112 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:48,719 Speaker 1: because she is excited about education and sharing the Constitution 113 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:52,960 Speaker 1: in a way that everyone feels included and recognizes that 114 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:56,839 Speaker 1: it accounts for them. And she knows so much because 115 00:06:56,880 --> 00:07:00,160 Speaker 1: she works with constitutional scholars all of the time him 116 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:02,040 Speaker 1: and has access to these people, which she mentioned on 117 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 1: the show. Uh to be like, hey, I know this 118 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 1: interpretation is shifted. What was going on today versus blah 119 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:10,360 Speaker 1: blah blah um, And you know, I was. I was 120 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:14,120 Speaker 1: thankful that she She talked about how much they've kind 121 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:19,040 Speaker 1: of gotten hammered with questions and people being interested in 122 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 1: recent years, as you know, debates about what the Constitution 123 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 1: does and does not do or does and does not 124 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 1: lay out have gotten more and more heated. It was 125 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:31,239 Speaker 1: a really really cool chat and she's just lovely. Yeah, 126 00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:35,240 Speaker 1: have you ever been to the Constitution Center? No, but 127 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 1: now it's like top of my list. When she was 128 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:39,680 Speaker 1: saying that people that go there that think it's going 129 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 1: to be boring come out like rapidly excited and giggling, 130 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 1: I'm like, I have to go there. Yeah. So I 131 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 1: I went there the last I think it was the 132 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:50,800 Speaker 1: last time that I went to Philadelphia. I went there, 133 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 1: um because, as I mentioned at some point recently on 134 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 1: the show, I'll basically do ride along with my spouse 135 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 1: when he's going there for something else, and then I 136 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:03,440 Speaker 1: just go to museums and walk around and do whatever 137 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:06,240 Speaker 1: I want while I'm there. And I had made myself 138 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:08,800 Speaker 1: a sort of museum path for this particular day that 139 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:11,240 Speaker 1: started at the Constitution Center and then looped around to 140 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:15,800 Speaker 1: a couple of other places. And I had zero idea 141 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:22,320 Speaker 1: what to expect at all, And uh, what was like, Wow, 142 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:26,360 Speaker 1: this is a way more interactive experience than I thought 143 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:30,960 Speaker 1: I was going to have from something called the Constitution Center. Right. 144 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 1: I Also, you know, it's such a surprising and cool, 145 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:41,440 Speaker 1: fortuitous happenstance that they were already working on so much 146 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 1: online engagement and being able to do lessons and sessions 147 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 1: online way before COVID. Ever, happened. So for them that 148 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:55,440 Speaker 1: was like an instant pivot, which um is just extraordinarily 149 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 1: good luck. Right, because we've we've talked with other people 150 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 1: at other museum is about how it was really a 151 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:03,440 Speaker 1: struggle to figure out how to do the same kind 152 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 1: of of engagement and programming they would normally do, but 153 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:10,440 Speaker 1: do it in a virtual space, whereas for the Constitution Center, 154 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:13,120 Speaker 1: they've already been in that space. So they were just like, Okay, 155 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 1: now everybody can come to these which is very cool. Yeah, yeah, 156 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:22,319 Speaker 1: I really do want to um study the Constitution. Whenever 157 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:24,800 Speaker 1: I talked to her, I really cannot stress enough if 158 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:29,559 Speaker 1: you have never looked at their interactive Constitution online, it's 159 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:33,360 Speaker 1: really really robust, like not only can you, you know, 160 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:35,880 Speaker 1: look at any part of the Constitution and who was 161 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:38,320 Speaker 1: influential in that part of the Constitution and it it 162 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 1: really does just kind of blossom out in this like 163 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:44,319 Speaker 1: information tree of different places you can go related to it. 164 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 1: It contextualizes all of it and that document in such 165 00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 1: a way that you really gained a deeper appreciation I did, 166 00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:55,600 Speaker 1: anyway of how much it is, as Curry was saying, 167 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 1: about us, it's about you, it is about me. Is 168 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 1: if you are A, U s that A and it 169 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:04,440 Speaker 1: is about you, which was sort of a strange and 170 00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 1: marvelous thing. And I love that almost everything they do 171 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:13,040 Speaker 1: is is free to the public. Yeah, Constitutional scholarship getting 172 00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:17,080 Speaker 1: very exciting. I'm working on something related and I'm like, 173 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:19,880 Speaker 1: I gotta go look at that interactive Constitution as soon 174 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:22,880 Speaker 1: as we're done here. Yes, I think you should. I 175 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 1: think you would get a huge kick out of it 176 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:29,400 Speaker 1: because it really is one from an information architecture standpoint, 177 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 1: it's just smartly designed, like it is really intuitive to use. 178 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:37,520 Speaker 1: You don't have to go down on the rabbit holes, 179 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 1: but if you want to, no matter what your level, 180 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:44,800 Speaker 1: that's really like your you will have your needs met. 181 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:46,600 Speaker 1: And that was another thing that I loved that she 182 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:49,200 Speaker 1: talked about was that like she's having conversations in some 183 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 1: of these lessons now where second graders are talking to 184 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 1: people like in their eighties and they're having actual discussions 185 00:10:56,280 --> 00:10:59,200 Speaker 1: about the Constitution in a way that is enlightening for 186 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:01,920 Speaker 1: both of them and any cases, which is just an 187 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 1: incredibly cool thing. Um, I'm a fan, can you tell? 188 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:11,720 Speaker 1: So I hope everybody does check it out, because especially 189 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:14,959 Speaker 1: if you're at all interested in the Constitution, or maybe 190 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:18,040 Speaker 1: you feel like you don't have as good a grip 191 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:21,439 Speaker 1: on all of it as you should. Wherever you want 192 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:23,400 Speaker 1: to start, there's a level that will give you the 193 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 1: amount of information you need. Thank you for hanging out 194 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:29,120 Speaker 1: with This is Friday. We hope everyone continues to stay 195 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:32,400 Speaker 1: safe and it's taking care of themselves. Uh. You can 196 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:34,480 Speaker 1: always subscribe to the show on the I heart Radio app, 197 00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:36,680 Speaker 1: but Apple podcasts, and wherever it is you listen. We 198 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:44,280 Speaker 1: hope you have a great weekend. Stuff you missed in 199 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:47,120 Speaker 1: History Class is a production of I heart Radio. For 200 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:49,880 Speaker 1: more podcasts from I heart Radio, visit the i heart 201 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 202 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 1: favorite shows.