WEBVTT - The Gate - Why Protecting Bear Hunting is Important 0:00:00.320 --> 0:00:03.200 Interstate Batteries has been a proud supporter of the Sportsman's 0:00:03.320 --> 0:00:07.320 Nation since day one, with over two hundred locations throughout 0:00:07.360 --> 0:00:11.040 the US and offering twelve thousand different types of batteries. 0:00:11.320 --> 0:00:14.400 Stop into your local Interstate Battery store today and let 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:21.640 them help you find the right batteries for your everyday life. God, 0:00:21.640 --> 0:00:23.720 I mean, I've never seen a bear on my property, 0:00:24.040 --> 0:00:26.400 but it's my dream the one day see a bear 0:00:26.600 --> 0:00:29.440 on the property's walking right through the backyard. Start putting 0:00:29.480 --> 0:00:32.400 some food out for him. He's the one who doesn't 0:00:32.400 --> 0:00:38.960 like he's converted. It didn't take much. Yeah, man, I'm weak. 0:00:41.000 --> 0:00:43.000 That's a lot of people. A lot of people don't 0:00:43.040 --> 0:00:46.240 understand baiting like they have this. It's a it's a 0:00:46.880 --> 0:00:50.120 it's kind of a you know, it's like is it fair? 0:00:50.600 --> 0:00:53.159 And that's really not the right question, because if the 0:00:53.280 --> 0:00:58.840 macro concern is the health of wildlife and they're how 0:00:58.880 --> 0:01:01.760 they live inside of habitat, then we have to go 0:01:01.840 --> 0:01:04.800 back to what's the best management tool for this reason. 0:01:05.480 --> 0:01:08.399 And then once you actually start baiting bearrass, you realize 0:01:08.400 --> 0:01:13.759 how hard it is. I believe that bears are going 0:01:13.880 --> 0:01:17.840 to be the gateway to the hunting community, and so 0:01:17.920 --> 0:01:21.800 if we guard that gate, they're never gonna get anything else. 0:01:30.720 --> 0:01:32.920 My name is Clay Nukeleman. I'm the host of the 0:01:32.959 --> 0:01:37.319 Bear Hunting Magazine podcast. I'll also be your host into 0:01:37.360 --> 0:01:40.800 the world of hunting the icon of the North American 0:01:40.840 --> 0:01:46.399 wilderness bear. We'll talk about tactics, gear conservation, but will 0:01:46.440 --> 0:01:49.280 also bring you into some of the wildest country on 0:01:49.400 --> 0:01:57.800 the planet. Chasing Bear. We had the opportunity to sit 0:01:57.840 --> 0:02:02.520 down with James Brandenburg, the Arkansas state chair of the 0:02:02.560 --> 0:02:06.920 Southeast Chapter of the back Country Hunters and Anglers Organization 0:02:07.120 --> 0:02:11.519 at the Global headquarters. We had an incredible conversation about 0:02:12.160 --> 0:02:16.240 some of the tough issues and tough questions related to 0:02:16.480 --> 0:02:21.560 large predator hunting and specifically baiting and using hounds for bear. 0:02:22.200 --> 0:02:25.760 James is a is a newer hunter, and we had 0:02:25.760 --> 0:02:29.160 a really open dialogue about some of the questions that 0:02:29.240 --> 0:02:33.200 he's had and undoubtedly some of the questions that other 0:02:33.520 --> 0:02:36.280 hunters and non hunters might have had. One of the 0:02:36.480 --> 0:02:39.920 iconic phrases that came up inside of this podcast is 0:02:39.960 --> 0:02:45.200 the idea that bear hunting is the gate for the 0:02:45.240 --> 0:02:49.240 anti hunting community to come into the sphere of hunting. 0:02:50.160 --> 0:02:54.960 Why wouldn't we want a strong gate, with a strong narrative, 0:02:55.520 --> 0:02:59.720 with a strong understanding throughout the hunting community of why 0:02:59.840 --> 0:03:02.160 we do the things that we do and how we 0:03:02.280 --> 0:03:05.960 do it. I think sometimes in the broader hunting community 0:03:06.000 --> 0:03:09.520 there's a sense that people would just like us to 0:03:09.680 --> 0:03:13.320 give this to the anti hunting community because they don't 0:03:13.480 --> 0:03:16.640 understand it. And it's probably one of the harder things 0:03:16.720 --> 0:03:22.840 about modern hunting to understand. Well, if bear hunting using 0:03:22.880 --> 0:03:26.919 hounds and bait was not the gate, then the next 0:03:27.080 --> 0:03:30.079 lowest rung on the ladder would be the gate, and 0:03:30.080 --> 0:03:33.520 we'd be in the same problem. So the answer is 0:03:33.600 --> 0:03:37.120 to strengthen the gate. That's what we talked about on 0:03:37.160 --> 0:03:41.240 this podcast is filling in the gaps, building a strong 0:03:41.400 --> 0:03:46.160 narrative that makes sense and shows the rational aspects, also 0:03:46.240 --> 0:03:51.080 the traditional aspects, and all the positive benefits of bear hunting. 0:03:51.760 --> 0:03:56.360 If you're in the Southeastern United States in Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, 0:03:56.640 --> 0:04:02.040 or Florida, Alabama, check out the Southeast chapter of the 0:04:02.080 --> 0:04:06.000 back Country Hunters and Anglers. This group is dedicated to 0:04:06.120 --> 0:04:11.720 the preservation of access for hunters and anglers onto public lands. 0:04:12.240 --> 0:04:15.720 Public lands have typically been an issue that's been related 0:04:15.760 --> 0:04:19.960 to mostly public land in the West, or historically that's 0:04:19.960 --> 0:04:23.640 been where we think about these issues being. But the 0:04:23.680 --> 0:04:27.600 Southeast is full of public lands. A matter of fact, Florida, 0:04:28.120 --> 0:04:30.919 I think has some of the most public land of 0:04:30.960 --> 0:04:34.080 any state in the country. So we've got issues here 0:04:34.200 --> 0:04:39.120 in the Southeast. Check out the back country Hunters and Anglers. 0:04:49.920 --> 0:04:53.919 Welcome to the Bear Hunting Magazine podcast. The day is 0:04:54.400 --> 0:05:00.640 June four. We're at the Bear Hunting Magazine Global head quarters. 0:05:00.760 --> 0:05:04.200 So we've got Jed here, Jed the Plothound, We've got 0:05:04.320 --> 0:05:07.520 Colby the Bear Tech, and our our guest today is 0:05:07.640 --> 0:05:11.200 James Brandenburg. James, I'll give I'll give a short introduction 0:05:11.279 --> 0:05:13.920 of of how I know you, and then I'll turn 0:05:14.000 --> 0:05:15.360 it over to you a little bit to tell us 0:05:15.360 --> 0:05:18.600 a little bit about yourself. But so James is a 0:05:18.760 --> 0:05:21.000 native our kans and the way I know you is 0:05:21.080 --> 0:05:25.040 through back country hunters and Anglers. So James is the 0:05:25.279 --> 0:05:29.800 lead here in Arkansas Fort State Chair. Okay, so that's official. 0:05:30.160 --> 0:05:32.320 At the time we got to know each other, there 0:05:32.320 --> 0:05:35.280 really wasn't a state chair. But yeah, so James is 0:05:35.360 --> 0:05:38.320 with a back country Hunters and Anglers aside from being 0:05:38.360 --> 0:05:41.720 a father and husbands and hunter and golfer and you know, 0:05:42.080 --> 0:05:47.120 fisherman fisherman. Yeah, so before we get into you, I 0:05:47.160 --> 0:05:49.400 want to tell people what we're gonna talk about. Just 0:05:49.520 --> 0:05:52.080 catch them right at first, because there may be some 0:05:52.200 --> 0:05:56.320 delay before we talk about this. But so James and 0:05:56.320 --> 0:05:58.800 I have been have been talking, and we thought it 0:05:58.800 --> 0:06:00.680 would be a good idea. Well was the one that 0:06:00.720 --> 0:06:03.039 actually had the idea, but to have a podcast where 0:06:03.120 --> 0:06:06.760 we talked about many of the misconceptions about bear hunting. 0:06:07.680 --> 0:06:10.720 And so James is, I'm not gonna say you're new 0:06:10.839 --> 0:06:12.760 to hunting. I don't know if that would be accurate, 0:06:12.800 --> 0:06:16.720 but you didn't You didn't grow up with specifically bear hunting. Oh, 0:06:16.839 --> 0:06:21.320 definitely not. Yeah, And so there's somebody who's new to 0:06:21.400 --> 0:06:24.240 it doesn't understand it. There are a lot of questions 0:06:24.240 --> 0:06:28.200 that people might have, specifically about running bear with hounds, 0:06:28.400 --> 0:06:31.479 hunting bear over bait. I mean, I'm not afraid to 0:06:31.560 --> 0:06:34.839 say that those things are hard to understand. It's the 0:06:35.000 --> 0:06:38.719 thing that even many hunters don't understand. And so we're 0:06:38.760 --> 0:06:43.239 gonna have a discussion about about these things today. Yeah, yeah, 0:06:43.279 --> 0:06:47.600 I mean, from my perspective, my background. Uh, grew up 0:06:47.720 --> 0:06:51.160 northwest Arkansas. As we've talked about, you know, is mostly 0:06:51.320 --> 0:06:55.320 my outdoor activity was golf. Um I did not. You 0:06:55.320 --> 0:06:58.200 will be the first golfer on the show. Excellent, excellent. 0:06:58.600 --> 0:07:03.320 I love being stinked in some way. Um. I didn't 0:07:03.360 --> 0:07:06.560 actually start hunting until I was trying to do the 0:07:06.600 --> 0:07:09.479 math on this on the way down here. Um. I 0:07:09.600 --> 0:07:13.480 think it was eight or nine years ago. So I've 0:07:13.520 --> 0:07:17.240 got three boys. My oldest will turn nineteen, and then 0:07:17.360 --> 0:07:20.000 I have a seventeen year old, and or he'll be 0:07:20.080 --> 0:07:22.880 seventeen and he'll be four. My youngest will be fourteen 0:07:23.360 --> 0:07:29.360 this summer. So um, first one was interested in hunting, 0:07:29.960 --> 0:07:31.960 so I thought, well, I might as well at least 0:07:31.960 --> 0:07:34.280 get my hunter safety card and then I can buy 0:07:34.320 --> 0:07:36.880 a license, I can take him out. Okay, So at 0:07:36.880 --> 0:07:39.040 this time you weren't interested in hunting. I mean, I 0:07:39.080 --> 0:07:41.360 was a little bit curious about it, but not. I 0:07:41.440 --> 0:07:44.200 was much more interested in fishing, you know, and I 0:07:44.400 --> 0:07:46.440 and I started that. Not too long before that, I 0:07:46.480 --> 0:07:49.360 started fly fishing, and I really got hooked on on 0:07:49.400 --> 0:07:52.960 that start. I did not intend to pun I'm very 0:07:53.000 --> 0:07:56.600 sorry about that. No, So I so I started with 0:07:56.640 --> 0:08:00.480 that and and that was kind of my introduction into 0:08:00.520 --> 0:08:07.880 things outside the Yeah, yeah, very opposite everybody else's. UM. 0:08:07.920 --> 0:08:10.040 So I went through all kinds of things with them, 0:08:10.080 --> 0:08:12.560 and I'll and i'll we won't go into all of that, 0:08:12.600 --> 0:08:17.160 but that's how I got started with hunting. Um. Now, 0:08:17.600 --> 0:08:20.040 up in Missouri, you know, I know, down here in Arkansas, 0:08:20.120 --> 0:08:22.360 for example, let's just talk about deer hunting for a minute. 0:08:22.600 --> 0:08:25.720 You can bait down here. Well, in Missouri, you don't bait. 0:08:26.560 --> 0:08:30.560 And so a lot of what informed my early ethics 0:08:30.560 --> 0:08:33.000 around hunting I just had to do with the regulations 0:08:33.000 --> 0:08:35.760 for where I was hunting. So then I then I 0:08:35.800 --> 0:08:38.640 started hearing even though I lived in Arkansas, we hunted 0:08:38.640 --> 0:08:40.760 in Missouri. That's where my in laws. I should I 0:08:40.760 --> 0:08:43.920 should spell that part out too. So we went to 0:08:43.960 --> 0:08:46.199 where my in laws lived and hunted up there. It's 0:08:46.240 --> 0:08:49.760 close to where we live. So those rules are what 0:08:49.880 --> 0:08:52.959 informed my own personal ethics. And so I would kind 0:08:52.960 --> 0:08:55.920 of like, well, why would you, I mean, baiting is bad, right, 0:08:55.960 --> 0:08:58.080 and I hear about it in Arkansas. I'm like, well, 0:08:58.360 --> 0:09:00.280 I kind of looked down my nose on it little 0:09:00.280 --> 0:09:03.839 bit for why, I don't know, I mean, she's I've 0:09:03.840 --> 0:09:05.360 only been hunting a couple of years. Who am I 0:09:05.400 --> 0:09:08.200 to tell somebody else? Right? But then as I've gotten 0:09:08.240 --> 0:09:11.720 more and more involved in in hunting and and started 0:09:11.720 --> 0:09:14.319 to be exposed to different things. On the one hand, 0:09:14.360 --> 0:09:16.400 I've kind of realized, Okay, there's different ways to do 0:09:16.440 --> 0:09:19.640 it in different places, and maybe one is not necessarily 0:09:19.679 --> 0:09:22.560 worse than the other. But there's also these other things 0:09:22.600 --> 0:09:25.360 that I think I do feel still like a new hunter, 0:09:25.520 --> 0:09:28.760 And so there's these different ideals that I that I 0:09:28.880 --> 0:09:34.120 come to, and I'm like, I think it's worth Yeah, 0:09:34.360 --> 0:09:36.760 I think I think a lot of people, if you 0:09:36.800 --> 0:09:40.720 don't know bear hunting, for example, you might wonder why 0:09:40.720 --> 0:09:42.520 do they have to use dogs? Why do they have 0:09:42.559 --> 0:09:44.920 to use bait that doesn't seem fair? And and so 0:09:45.000 --> 0:09:48.080 I wanna we're gonna turn the tables, you know, I 0:09:48.120 --> 0:09:51.080 want to ask you those questions, and not my intention 0:09:51.160 --> 0:09:54.240 to to be confrontational, but I'm gonna kind of play 0:09:54.280 --> 0:09:58.240 Devil's advocate for a minute, and um, hopefully we can 0:09:58.679 --> 0:10:01.160 kind of give give people on both sides something to 0:10:01.200 --> 0:10:04.160 think about. I think I think just talking about that 0:10:04.200 --> 0:10:07.760 stuff and discussing it openly is a better way to 0:10:07.800 --> 0:10:10.880 do it, rather than getting on Facebook and arguing about 0:10:10.920 --> 0:10:13.040 it and you don't know somebody on the other side 0:10:13.080 --> 0:10:14.880 of the screen, You have no idea what they're about. 0:10:15.960 --> 0:10:18.440 You know, let's just talk about it openly. And I 0:10:18.520 --> 0:10:23.040 think inside of conversation like this, you really do create 0:10:23.200 --> 0:10:28.559 a the thoughts, the ethics, the narrative, the way that 0:10:28.679 --> 0:10:31.880 you say things kind of gets formulated in a formal 0:10:32.000 --> 0:10:34.760 conversation like this, And so I think we'll probably say 0:10:34.760 --> 0:10:37.640 a lot of things that probably a lot of bear 0:10:37.720 --> 0:10:40.720 hunters that have done this their whole life would understand. 0:10:40.760 --> 0:10:43.680 They'd be like, yeah, that's just the way that um. 0:10:43.720 --> 0:10:46.839 But at the same time, it hopefully will I mean, 0:10:46.920 --> 0:10:48.920 I mean, I don't know what you're gonna ask me. 0:10:49.040 --> 0:10:51.839 So I hope we come to some good, good conclusions 0:10:51.880 --> 0:10:55.120 here of of ways to to think about this stuff, 0:10:55.160 --> 0:10:57.640 because there is an answer. I mean, if if the 0:10:58.640 --> 0:11:02.480 if the answer was word just we're just guys that 0:11:02.520 --> 0:11:05.480 are just trying to find the easiest way out to 0:11:05.600 --> 0:11:09.120 kill an animal and we're just lazy and we're we 0:11:09.200 --> 0:11:10.960 don't enjoy chat. I mean, you know, if if like 0:11:11.000 --> 0:11:14.600 all the negative stereotypes are true, then we're just dirt balls. 0:11:14.600 --> 0:11:18.679 So there's there's got to be a way of looking 0:11:18.720 --> 0:11:20.240 at it that makes sense. And and the way that 0:11:20.320 --> 0:11:22.960 I've always said it is that I believe that if 0:11:23.000 --> 0:11:25.679 we were in if we could remove ourselves from this 0:11:25.760 --> 0:11:30.960 planet and go to another place that was just in 0:11:31.040 --> 0:11:35.960 some standard of you know, just nous, and you could 0:11:35.960 --> 0:11:40.080 present the case for hunting large predators based upon the 0:11:40.120 --> 0:11:42.120 world that we'd come from, because we're not there anymore, 0:11:42.440 --> 0:11:44.520 I think we'd win. I mean, it's it's rational, it 0:11:44.559 --> 0:11:49.400 makes sense, that's sustainable, it's uh, there's all these positive things, 0:11:49.520 --> 0:11:54.880 and then the negative things oftentimes are not as rational. 0:11:55.679 --> 0:11:59.959 They're emotional, and there really aren't totally based in fact. 0:12:00.400 --> 0:12:04.480 That being said, nothing's perfect there. There there's bad they're 0:12:04.520 --> 0:12:06.640 bad things that have They are bad people at bait 0:12:06.679 --> 0:12:08.960 bears and run hounds. Well, there's bad people and everything. 0:12:09.040 --> 0:12:12.200 I mean, bad people that play tennis. Yeah, and golf. 0:12:12.480 --> 0:12:17.480 O'm gonna say that one. You know what, we keep 0:12:17.480 --> 0:12:20.040 going back this golfing. I kind of I told I've 0:12:20.080 --> 0:12:22.360 told you this. I despised golf as a kid. My 0:12:22.520 --> 0:12:25.200 dad pushed me to be a golfer and I was like, no, 0:12:25.320 --> 0:12:31.000 I'm not a golfer. Don't bring up golf. Well, hey, 0:12:31.320 --> 0:12:33.160 I think that's a good introduction just for people that 0:12:33.320 --> 0:12:35.120 listen to like the first six or seven minutes of 0:12:35.160 --> 0:12:38.440 the podcast. Let's talk before we dive into all that stuff. 0:12:38.880 --> 0:12:42.320 Let's let's talk about let's talk about back country hunters 0:12:42.360 --> 0:12:45.040 and anglers. Let's just give a I mean, even if 0:12:45.040 --> 0:12:47.360 we even if we just talked for a short period 0:12:47.400 --> 0:12:51.360 of time here about it, like, uh, describe what back 0:12:51.360 --> 0:12:53.679 country Hunters and Anglers is from even just like a 0:12:53.800 --> 0:12:58.520 national perspective, and then what's happening here in Arkansas. B 0:12:58.720 --> 0:13:03.240 h A is the uh, the voice for wild public land, 0:13:03.280 --> 0:13:07.200 public water, and wildlife in North America. That's the tagline. 0:13:08.120 --> 0:13:12.920 And um, you know when we think about public land, 0:13:13.040 --> 0:13:17.160 public water, places where people go to hunt, or they 0:13:17.200 --> 0:13:21.040 go to hike, or they go to fish or bird 0:13:21.080 --> 0:13:22.960 watch whatever it is. You know, so much of that 0:13:23.040 --> 0:13:29.000 activity takes place in publicly held land and water. But 0:13:30.600 --> 0:13:34.440 b h A you know, got started I want to say, 0:13:35.640 --> 0:13:41.559 fifteen years ago, you know something roughly its evidentially the 0:13:41.640 --> 0:13:47.959 last two three years, you know. Um, And so originally 0:13:48.520 --> 0:13:51.400 you think about public land and and we're here sitting 0:13:51.400 --> 0:13:55.679 in northwest Arkansas, were blessed to have national forest. I mean, 0:13:55.720 --> 0:13:59.920 we're basically sitting in the middle of it, but law 0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:02.520 out of a lot of parts of the country don't 0:14:02.559 --> 0:14:04.880 have that. Of course, public land was a big deal 0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:07.440 out west. There's so many millions of acres of it 0:14:07.480 --> 0:14:11.840 out there, and when they're started to become threats to that, 0:14:12.320 --> 0:14:14.760 to you know, getting rid of that public land, I 0:14:14.760 --> 0:14:17.440 think that's when the movement really started to to take 0:14:17.520 --> 0:14:20.240 hold and people started to pay attention to it. Now 0:14:20.280 --> 0:14:23.120 you think about it, there's public land exists for a 0:14:23.200 --> 0:14:28.800 lot of reasons and recreation. It certainly is great for recreation, 0:14:28.880 --> 0:14:31.680 and it's there for other uses as well, and b 0:14:31.920 --> 0:14:36.560 h A recognizes those uses. But the part of the 0:14:36.680 --> 0:14:40.800 b h A steps up for is is the wildlife 0:14:40.920 --> 0:14:45.040 that's on it and and the people who use public 0:14:45.120 --> 0:14:48.480 lands and public waters for that purpose, to give them 0:14:48.520 --> 0:14:53.640 a voice at the table um now here in in 0:14:53.640 --> 0:14:56.880 in the Southeast. You know, Arkansas right now is part 0:14:56.880 --> 0:14:59.760 of the Southeast chapter of b h A. We have 0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:03.400 of six states. Now Tennessee is just just ready to 0:15:03.440 --> 0:15:06.680 break off and become their own state chapter. So we'll 0:15:06.720 --> 0:15:12.360 be six states Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia and Florida 0:15:12.760 --> 0:15:15.360 and um, so we're kind of a regional chapter. It's 0:15:15.360 --> 0:15:17.760 a little bit of an experiment within b h A. 0:15:18.880 --> 0:15:22.320 But within each state, you know, we we've got a 0:15:22.400 --> 0:15:26.520 leadership structure and and we focus on the issues that 0:15:26.560 --> 0:15:30.800 are particular to that area. So Arkansas, it might be 0:15:31.000 --> 0:15:34.560 the Buffalo River, it might be um you know, the 0:15:34.840 --> 0:15:39.080 Ozark National Forest, might be something different in Louisiana. It's 0:15:39.160 --> 0:15:41.840 something different in every one of the states. But the 0:15:41.960 --> 0:15:44.040 great thing that we have, and I don't think most 0:15:44.040 --> 0:15:47.280 of the rest of the country understands this, we've all 0:15:47.320 --> 0:15:54.000 got that that Southern camaraderie, you know, the Southeast Conference mentality. 0:15:54.120 --> 0:15:56.160 You know, it's us against everybody else. It just matters 0:15:56.200 --> 0:16:01.880 more here. So um, but here in Arkansas, what we're 0:16:01.880 --> 0:16:05.560 specifically doing right now is building out leadership structure. We've 0:16:05.600 --> 0:16:10.000 recruited some just awesome guys that stepped up at first 0:16:10.040 --> 0:16:13.280 and said they want to be involved in helping. And 0:16:13.360 --> 0:16:16.160 we're not doing anything super formal with that right now 0:16:16.200 --> 0:16:19.080 other than you know, take advantage of their skills and 0:16:19.120 --> 0:16:23.120 their talents and desires and then you know, over the 0:16:23.160 --> 0:16:27.000 next I don't know, let's say six or eight months, 0:16:27.680 --> 0:16:32.360 we will start identifying the we'll name the seats on 0:16:32.400 --> 0:16:35.080 the bus, We'll start putting people in those seats on 0:16:35.120 --> 0:16:36.720 the bus, and we're gonna figure out where to drive 0:16:36.760 --> 0:16:41.720 the bus. That's the analogy that I like to use UM. 0:16:41.760 --> 0:16:45.440 And we don't have any formal goals around you know, 0:16:46.720 --> 0:16:48.840 being being the next state to break out of the 0:16:48.920 --> 0:16:52.200 chapter or anything like that right now. But but what 0:16:52.240 --> 0:16:54.360 we do have is we want to get that leadership 0:16:54.360 --> 0:16:59.080 structure in place so that we can benefit from the 0:16:59.120 --> 0:17:03.320 rest of the Southeast Chapters leadership. And then UM bring 0:17:03.360 --> 0:17:05.920 BHAs message here to Arkansas. And what does that mean 0:17:05.960 --> 0:17:08.000 for Arkansas? That's another question we get all the time, 0:17:08.000 --> 0:17:09.520 like why do I need to join b h A 0:17:10.960 --> 0:17:15.199 UM what's important in public lands and waters here in Arkansas? 0:17:15.320 --> 0:17:18.119 Think about where does a lot of our duck hunting happen, 0:17:18.720 --> 0:17:23.680 public land, public water. UM. You know, we've got world 0:17:23.720 --> 0:17:30.080 class trout fisheries, striper fisheries, we've got UM, you know, 0:17:30.280 --> 0:17:33.520 just just all these different resources in the state that 0:17:34.520 --> 0:17:37.159 we've got that heritage of taking advantage of those here 0:17:37.480 --> 0:17:43.280 in Arkansas. And yeah, we're not maybe under direct threat 0:17:43.480 --> 0:17:46.119 right now. Let's hope we never get there. But but 0:17:46.200 --> 0:17:50.560 let's let's have something in place for if it ever 0:17:50.600 --> 0:17:53.679 did happen. Exactly right, and I think you said it, 0:17:53.720 --> 0:17:56.639 but a lot of the Western issues revolve around public 0:17:56.720 --> 0:18:00.119 lands actually being sold back to the state. That a 0:18:00.200 --> 0:18:02.920 pretty big deal. Like there's just keep you know, public 0:18:02.960 --> 0:18:05.280 public lands and public hands and that's pretty much what 0:18:05.400 --> 0:18:09.560 that is referring back to. And and in super Layman's 0:18:09.600 --> 0:18:12.520 short terms, is that it doesn't sound so bad for 0:18:12.920 --> 0:18:15.000 public land to be sold back to the state, except 0:18:15.040 --> 0:18:18.119 the history of that transaction usually means that once it 0:18:18.240 --> 0:18:20.199 sold to the state, they don't have enough money to 0:18:20.240 --> 0:18:23.720 maintain it, and they shut stuff down, and they potentially 0:18:23.760 --> 0:18:26.960 even ended up setting it into private hands. So it's 0:18:27.000 --> 0:18:30.240 like what what b h A from what I understand, 0:18:30.280 --> 0:18:33.040 and I'm a member of b h A, is that 0:18:33.400 --> 0:18:37.359 you know, no net loss of public land anywhere in 0:18:37.400 --> 0:18:40.800 the country, and an expansion of public lands and just 0:18:40.880 --> 0:18:43.520 the rights of who gets to go there, and and 0:18:43.560 --> 0:18:46.359 a lot of those issues are more Western stuff, but 0:18:46.400 --> 0:18:49.360 there's plenty of stuff here in Arkansas that I'm sure 0:18:49.400 --> 0:18:51.919 that you guys will get involved with. C w D 0:18:52.080 --> 0:18:54.480 is another one just to briefly touch on, you know, 0:18:55.000 --> 0:18:58.119 that was something that was passed at Rendezvous just back 0:18:58.160 --> 0:19:02.919 in early May. And um, we'll be we'll be advocating 0:19:03.040 --> 0:19:06.119 for more money for research and things like that. You know, 0:19:06.160 --> 0:19:09.679 obviously here in Arkansas there's parts of area that's a 0:19:09.680 --> 0:19:12.360 big deal. Yeah, you know, I think the biggest thing 0:19:12.400 --> 0:19:15.720 that b h A has done on a national scale 0:19:15.760 --> 0:19:19.440 has brought attention to public lands and and seeing and 0:19:19.440 --> 0:19:23.080 and they've made it They've made it cool to appreciate 0:19:23.119 --> 0:19:27.159 public lands, and that is a I mean, it's kind 0:19:27.160 --> 0:19:30.639 of a no brainer. But I mean I think it myself. 0:19:30.680 --> 0:19:32.840 I've been influenced by it. I mean, I'm in public 0:19:32.920 --> 0:19:34.960 land my whole life, and it's kind of like you 0:19:35.080 --> 0:19:38.359 just it's just your right and seeing. That's where like 0:19:38.400 --> 0:19:41.040 a difference of how how you and I grew up. 0:19:41.720 --> 0:19:47.000 Because in twenty I think it was ten, we were 0:19:47.000 --> 0:19:50.440 on vacation, maybe it's even twenty sixteen. We're on vacation 0:19:50.440 --> 0:19:53.880 in Colorado and we're driving through National Forest and BLM 0:19:53.960 --> 0:19:57.199 Land and I'm I'm on my phone, like the kids are, 0:19:57.320 --> 0:20:00.399 so what's public land mean? Dad? I'm like, man, I 0:20:00.440 --> 0:20:04.000 don't quite understand that. So, I mean I'm googling what's 0:20:04.000 --> 0:20:07.160 the difference between BLM and for a service land and 0:20:07.200 --> 0:20:09.639 what is that. And we actually took I mean, you know, 0:20:09.760 --> 0:20:12.560 much to my wife's chagrin, we just turned off the 0:20:12.640 --> 0:20:15.399 highway in one place and just took off, took the 0:20:15.520 --> 0:20:19.120 took the gate down, drove across, put the gate back up, 0:20:19.520 --> 0:20:23.720 and just drove out into this, into this rolling pasture, 0:20:24.440 --> 0:20:29.240 you know, public land, and just went driving around, took pictures, 0:20:29.280 --> 0:20:30.960 you know, until it was my wife was like, Okay, 0:20:30.960 --> 0:20:33.679 this is enough, let's go back to the road. And 0:20:33.920 --> 0:20:36.480 uh that's when that's for me, when it started to 0:20:36.480 --> 0:20:39.720 become real that like, okay, this is what it means, 0:20:39.720 --> 0:20:41.520 like this is a place we can go and just 0:20:41.560 --> 0:20:44.159 go do stuff. But I didn't have that experience growing up, 0:20:44.160 --> 0:20:47.960 so I had to physically experience it to get it. Yeah. Well, 0:20:48.000 --> 0:20:51.320 I think it's and I think just the knowledge of 0:20:51.800 --> 0:20:54.520 the knowledge of the history of public lands and so 0:20:54.640 --> 0:20:57.399 powerful too. And I mean this is something that I 0:20:57.800 --> 0:21:01.160 would have known before. But it's like I can't can't 0:21:01.160 --> 0:21:02.879 be denied that b h A has brought it to 0:21:02.880 --> 0:21:06.439 the forefront and that this experiment with public lands in 0:21:06.520 --> 0:21:10.240 North America is a very unique thing to the world, 0:21:10.840 --> 0:21:14.520 very unique thing for man the history of mankind that 0:21:14.720 --> 0:21:17.879 a government would say this land is for everybody, because 0:21:17.960 --> 0:21:23.240 typically kings and monarchs took stuff for themselves, Like for real, 0:21:23.320 --> 0:21:26.640 like the that's the king's forest, you can't go in there. 0:21:27.000 --> 0:21:29.879 I mean, that's typically how the world has worked for 0:21:29.920 --> 0:21:33.000 a thousand years. And that's the that's what money does. 0:21:33.640 --> 0:21:37.720 You know, money, Money buys you exclusion in a lot 0:21:37.760 --> 0:21:42.800 of cases. And so it was a happy accident. I 0:21:42.840 --> 0:21:45.679 think it was just an experiment. I mean, it was 0:21:45.880 --> 0:21:49.000 Roosevelt and a bunch of other people that were just like, hey, 0:21:49.160 --> 0:21:54.440 these these places are worth protecting. Let's make this eternally 0:21:54.960 --> 0:21:58.199 the land, uh, you know, the land owned by the 0:21:58.240 --> 0:22:01.680 people and citizens the United States. And what we can't 0:22:01.680 --> 0:22:04.560 forget and we can't forget inside that narrative is that 0:22:04.880 --> 0:22:08.520 Roosevelt most of those guys that were influential inside of that, 0:22:08.920 --> 0:22:12.120 did it because they loved hunting. I mean for real, 0:22:12.960 --> 0:22:17.199 I mean obviously the purpose of it was bigger than that, 0:22:17.280 --> 0:22:19.800 and Roosevelt knew that. I mean, like this is you know, 0:22:19.840 --> 0:22:21.680 not everybody's gonna just come here to hunt, and there's 0:22:21.720 --> 0:22:23.680 some places that you couldn't hunt. I mean, the national 0:22:23.720 --> 0:22:28.040 parks and stuff, but in general that they were. Roosevelt 0:22:28.080 --> 0:22:30.760 loved land because he loved to hunt. I'm reading a 0:22:30.760 --> 0:22:35.080 book by Roosevelt right now called Tales of the Grizzly. 0:22:35.240 --> 0:22:37.679 I think he spelled grizzly with an S rather than 0:22:37.800 --> 0:22:41.400 Z like we do today. And it was his his 0:22:41.560 --> 0:22:44.080 book that he wrote about all his bear hunting. And 0:22:44.240 --> 0:22:47.639 I'm actually pretty amazed at the knowledge that he had 0:22:47.760 --> 0:22:54.359 chapters and chapters on on bear, uh just bear related, 0:22:54.840 --> 0:22:58.439 not biology really, but just his observations anyway. I mean, 0:22:58.440 --> 0:23:00.560 the guy was in love with wild place is because 0:23:00.560 --> 0:23:03.639 of wildlife and because he loved to hunt and and 0:23:03.640 --> 0:23:08.720 and it's an interesting thing to think about how people 0:23:08.760 --> 0:23:12.240 who love to go out and and hunt that wildlife. 0:23:12.720 --> 0:23:14.920 I mean, yeah, I get it people, some people want 0:23:14.960 --> 0:23:17.480 to go look at it. But the ones spending the 0:23:17.480 --> 0:23:20.879 money on it and contributing to it are the hunters 0:23:20.920 --> 0:23:24.440 and anglers who are out there pursuing it for their 0:23:24.480 --> 0:23:29.720 recreational purpose. And uh, we can't beat that drum loud enough. 0:23:30.600 --> 0:23:35.719 Where where where wildlife has cultural value, deep cultural value, 0:23:35.920 --> 0:23:40.640 specifically through hunting it is it is protected. And where 0:23:40.680 --> 0:23:43.800 wildlife is protected, the other way to protect wildlife. Wildlife 0:23:43.840 --> 0:23:47.240 is through game but regulations, but primarily through habitat preservation. 0:23:47.640 --> 0:23:50.320 I mean, we can't have bear and deer and turkeys 0:23:50.320 --> 0:23:52.120 and elk unless we got a place for him to live. 0:23:52.480 --> 0:23:54.399 So if you love wildlife, want to protect it, you 0:23:54.400 --> 0:23:58.000 protect habitat. And I mean that is the drum. That's 0:23:58.080 --> 0:24:03.280 the drum. And and them back to even jumping into 0:24:03.359 --> 0:24:05.560 what we're gonna talk about. I mean, I think it's 0:24:05.560 --> 0:24:10.439 important that we understand the foundational the foundational ethics for 0:24:10.600 --> 0:24:15.119 why we're not just justified, but why it is right 0:24:15.520 --> 0:24:20.000