1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:03,200 Speaker 1: Interstate Batteries has been a proud supporter of the Sportsman's 2 00:00:03,320 --> 00:00:07,320 Speaker 1: Nation since day one, with over two hundred locations throughout 3 00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:11,040 Speaker 1: the US and offering twelve thousand different types of batteries. 4 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:14,400 Speaker 1: Stop into your local Interstate Battery store today and let 5 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:21,640 Speaker 1: them help you find the right batteries for your everyday life. God, 6 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 1: I mean, I've never seen a bear on my property, 7 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:26,400 Speaker 1: but it's my dream the one day see a bear 8 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:29,440 Speaker 1: on the property's walking right through the backyard. Start putting 9 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:32,400 Speaker 1: some food out for him. He's the one who doesn't 10 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:38,960 Speaker 1: like he's converted. It didn't take much. Yeah, man, I'm weak. 11 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:43,000 Speaker 1: That's a lot of people. A lot of people don't 12 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:46,240 Speaker 1: understand baiting like they have this. It's a it's a 13 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:50,120 Speaker 1: it's kind of a you know, it's like is it fair? 14 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:53,159 Speaker 1: And that's really not the right question, because if the 15 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:58,840 Speaker 1: macro concern is the health of wildlife and they're how 16 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:01,760 Speaker 1: they live inside of habitat, then we have to go 17 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 1: back to what's the best management tool for this reason. 18 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:08,399 Speaker 1: And then once you actually start baiting bearrass, you realize 19 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:13,759 Speaker 1: how hard it is. I believe that bears are going 20 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:17,840 Speaker 1: to be the gateway to the hunting community, and so 21 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 1: if we guard that gate, they're never gonna get anything else. 22 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:32,920 Speaker 1: My name is Clay Nukeleman. I'm the host of the 23 00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:37,319 Speaker 1: Bear Hunting Magazine podcast. I'll also be your host into 24 00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 1: the world of hunting the icon of the North American 25 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:46,399 Speaker 1: wilderness bear. We'll talk about tactics, gear conservation, but will 26 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 1: also bring you into some of the wildest country on 27 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:57,800 Speaker 1: the planet. Chasing Bear. We had the opportunity to sit 28 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:02,520 Speaker 1: down with James Brandenburg, the Arkansas state chair of the 29 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:06,920 Speaker 1: Southeast Chapter of the back Country Hunters and Anglers Organization 30 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:11,519 Speaker 1: at the Global headquarters. We had an incredible conversation about 31 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:16,240 Speaker 1: some of the tough issues and tough questions related to 32 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:21,560 Speaker 1: large predator hunting and specifically baiting and using hounds for bear. 33 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 1: James is a is a newer hunter, and we had 34 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:29,160 Speaker 1: a really open dialogue about some of the questions that 35 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:33,200 Speaker 1: he's had and undoubtedly some of the questions that other 36 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 1: hunters and non hunters might have had. One of the 37 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:39,920 Speaker 1: iconic phrases that came up inside of this podcast is 38 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:45,200 Speaker 1: the idea that bear hunting is the gate for the 39 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:49,240 Speaker 1: anti hunting community to come into the sphere of hunting. 40 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:54,960 Speaker 1: Why wouldn't we want a strong gate, with a strong narrative, 41 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 1: with a strong understanding throughout the hunting community of why 42 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 1: we do the things that we do and how we 43 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:05,960 Speaker 1: do it. I think sometimes in the broader hunting community 44 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:09,520 Speaker 1: there's a sense that people would just like us to 45 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 1: give this to the anti hunting community because they don't 46 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:16,640 Speaker 1: understand it. And it's probably one of the harder things 47 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 1: about modern hunting to understand. Well, if bear hunting using 48 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:26,919 Speaker 1: hounds and bait was not the gate, then the next 49 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:30,079 Speaker 1: lowest rung on the ladder would be the gate, and 50 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:33,520 Speaker 1: we'd be in the same problem. So the answer is 51 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:37,120 Speaker 1: to strengthen the gate. That's what we talked about on 52 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 1: this podcast is filling in the gaps, building a strong 53 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 1: narrative that makes sense and shows the rational aspects, also 54 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 1: the traditional aspects, and all the positive benefits of bear hunting. 55 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:56,360 Speaker 1: If you're in the Southeastern United States in Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, 56 00:03:56,640 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 1: or Florida, Alabama, check out the Southeast chapter of the 57 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 1: back Country Hunters and Anglers. This group is dedicated to 58 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:11,720 Speaker 1: the preservation of access for hunters and anglers onto public lands. 59 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:15,720 Speaker 1: Public lands have typically been an issue that's been related 60 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 1: to mostly public land in the West, or historically that's 61 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:23,640 Speaker 1: been where we think about these issues being. But the 62 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:27,600 Speaker 1: Southeast is full of public lands. A matter of fact, Florida, 63 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:30,919 Speaker 1: I think has some of the most public land of 64 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:34,080 Speaker 1: any state in the country. So we've got issues here 65 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:39,120 Speaker 1: in the Southeast. Check out the back country Hunters and Anglers. 66 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:53,919 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bear Hunting Magazine podcast. The day is 67 00:04:54,400 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 1: June four. We're at the Bear Hunting Magazine Global head quarters. 68 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:04,200 Speaker 1: So we've got Jed here, Jed the Plothound, We've got 69 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 1: Colby the Bear Tech, and our our guest today is 70 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 1: James Brandenburg. James, I'll give I'll give a short introduction 71 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:13,920 Speaker 1: of of how I know you, and then I'll turn 72 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:15,360 Speaker 1: it over to you a little bit to tell us 73 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:18,600 Speaker 1: a little bit about yourself. But so James is a 74 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 1: native our kans and the way I know you is 75 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:25,040 Speaker 1: through back country hunters and Anglers. So James is the 76 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:29,800 Speaker 1: lead here in Arkansas Fort State Chair. Okay, so that's official. 77 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 1: At the time we got to know each other, there 78 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:35,280 Speaker 1: really wasn't a state chair. But yeah, so James is 79 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 1: with a back country Hunters and Anglers aside from being 80 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:41,720 Speaker 1: a father and husbands and hunter and golfer and you know, 81 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:47,120 Speaker 1: fisherman fisherman. Yeah, so before we get into you, I 82 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 1: want to tell people what we're gonna talk about. Just 83 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 1: catch them right at first, because there may be some 84 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 1: delay before we talk about this. But so James and 85 00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:58,800 Speaker 1: I have been have been talking, and we thought it 86 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:00,680 Speaker 1: would be a good idea. Well was the one that 87 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:03,039 Speaker 1: actually had the idea, but to have a podcast where 88 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:06,760 Speaker 1: we talked about many of the misconceptions about bear hunting. 89 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:10,720 Speaker 1: And so James is, I'm not gonna say you're new 90 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 1: to hunting. I don't know if that would be accurate, 91 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:16,720 Speaker 1: but you didn't You didn't grow up with specifically bear hunting. Oh, 92 00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:21,320 Speaker 1: definitely not. Yeah, And so there's somebody who's new to 93 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:24,240 Speaker 1: it doesn't understand it. There are a lot of questions 94 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:28,200 Speaker 1: that people might have, specifically about running bear with hounds, 95 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:31,479 Speaker 1: hunting bear over bait. I mean, I'm not afraid to 96 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:34,839 Speaker 1: say that those things are hard to understand. It's the 97 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:38,719 Speaker 1: thing that even many hunters don't understand. And so we're 98 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:43,239 Speaker 1: gonna have a discussion about about these things today. Yeah, yeah, 99 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:47,600 Speaker 1: I mean, from my perspective, my background. Uh, grew up 100 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:51,160 Speaker 1: northwest Arkansas. As we've talked about, you know, is mostly 101 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 1: my outdoor activity was golf. Um I did not. You 102 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:58,200 Speaker 1: will be the first golfer on the show. Excellent, excellent. 103 00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:03,320 Speaker 1: I love being stinked in some way. Um. I didn't 104 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:06,560 Speaker 1: actually start hunting until I was trying to do the 105 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:09,479 Speaker 1: math on this on the way down here. Um. I 106 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:13,480 Speaker 1: think it was eight or nine years ago. So I've 107 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:17,240 Speaker 1: got three boys. My oldest will turn nineteen, and then 108 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 1: I have a seventeen year old, and or he'll be 109 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 1: seventeen and he'll be four. My youngest will be fourteen 110 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 1: this summer. So um, first one was interested in hunting, 111 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:31,960 Speaker 1: so I thought, well, I might as well at least 112 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:34,280 Speaker 1: get my hunter safety card and then I can buy 113 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:36,880 Speaker 1: a license, I can take him out. Okay, So at 114 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 1: this time you weren't interested in hunting. I mean, I 115 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 1: was a little bit curious about it, but not. I 116 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 1: was much more interested in fishing, you know, and I 117 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:46,440 Speaker 1: and I started that. Not too long before that, I 118 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:49,360 Speaker 1: started fly fishing, and I really got hooked on on 119 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 1: that start. I did not intend to pun I'm very 120 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 1: sorry about that. No, So I so I started with 121 00:07:56,640 --> 00:08:00,480 Speaker 1: that and and that was kind of my introduction into 122 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 1: things outside the Yeah, yeah, very opposite everybody else's. UM. 123 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 1: So I went through all kinds of things with them, 124 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 1: and I'll and i'll we won't go into all of that, 125 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:17,160 Speaker 1: but that's how I got started with hunting. Um. Now, 126 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 1: up in Missouri, you know, I know, down here in Arkansas, 127 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:22,360 Speaker 1: for example, let's just talk about deer hunting for a minute. 128 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 1: You can bait down here. Well, in Missouri, you don't bait. 129 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 1: And so a lot of what informed my early ethics 130 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:33,000 Speaker 1: around hunting I just had to do with the regulations 131 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:35,760 Speaker 1: for where I was hunting. So then I then I 132 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:38,640 Speaker 1: started hearing even though I lived in Arkansas, we hunted 133 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 1: in Missouri. That's where my in laws. I should I 134 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:43,920 Speaker 1: should spell that part out too. So we went to 135 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:46,199 Speaker 1: where my in laws lived and hunted up there. It's 136 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 1: close to where we live. So those rules are what 137 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:52,959 Speaker 1: informed my own personal ethics. And so I would kind 138 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 1: of like, well, why would you, I mean, baiting is bad, right, 139 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:58,080 Speaker 1: and I hear about it in Arkansas. I'm like, well, 140 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:00,280 Speaker 1: I kind of looked down my nose on it little 141 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:03,839 Speaker 1: bit for why, I don't know, I mean, she's I've 142 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 1: only been hunting a couple of years. Who am I 143 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:08,200 Speaker 1: to tell somebody else? Right? But then as I've gotten 144 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:11,720 Speaker 1: more and more involved in in hunting and and started 145 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:14,319 Speaker 1: to be exposed to different things. On the one hand, 146 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:16,400 Speaker 1: I've kind of realized, Okay, there's different ways to do 147 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:19,640 Speaker 1: it in different places, and maybe one is not necessarily 148 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:22,560 Speaker 1: worse than the other. But there's also these other things 149 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:25,360 Speaker 1: that I think I do feel still like a new hunter, 150 00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:28,760 Speaker 1: And so there's these different ideals that I that I 151 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:34,120 Speaker 1: come to, and I'm like, I think it's worth Yeah, 152 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:36,760 Speaker 1: I think I think a lot of people, if you 153 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:40,720 Speaker 1: don't know bear hunting, for example, you might wonder why 154 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 1: do they have to use dogs? Why do they have 155 00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:44,920 Speaker 1: to use bait that doesn't seem fair? And and so 156 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:48,080 Speaker 1: I wanna we're gonna turn the tables, you know, I 157 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:51,080 Speaker 1: want to ask you those questions, and not my intention 158 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:54,240 Speaker 1: to to be confrontational, but I'm gonna kind of play 159 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 1: Devil's advocate for a minute, and um, hopefully we can 160 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 1: kind of give give people on both sides something to 161 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 1: think about. I think I think just talking about that 162 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:07,760 Speaker 1: stuff and discussing it openly is a better way to 163 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 1: do it, rather than getting on Facebook and arguing about 164 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:13,040 Speaker 1: it and you don't know somebody on the other side 165 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 1: of the screen, You have no idea what they're about. 166 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:18,440 Speaker 1: You know, let's just talk about it openly. And I 167 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 1: think inside of conversation like this, you really do create 168 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:28,559 Speaker 1: a the thoughts, the ethics, the narrative, the way that 169 00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:31,880 Speaker 1: you say things kind of gets formulated in a formal 170 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:34,760 Speaker 1: conversation like this, And so I think we'll probably say 171 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:37,640 Speaker 1: a lot of things that probably a lot of bear 172 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:40,720 Speaker 1: hunters that have done this their whole life would understand. 173 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:43,680 Speaker 1: They'd be like, yeah, that's just the way that um. 174 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:46,839 Speaker 1: But at the same time, it hopefully will I mean, 175 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know what you're gonna ask me. 176 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:51,839 Speaker 1: So I hope we come to some good, good conclusions 177 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 1: here of of ways to to think about this stuff, 178 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 1: because there is an answer. I mean, if if the 179 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:02,480 Speaker 1: if the answer was word just we're just guys that 180 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:05,480 Speaker 1: are just trying to find the easiest way out to 181 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:09,120 Speaker 1: kill an animal and we're just lazy and we're we 182 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:10,960 Speaker 1: don't enjoy chat. I mean, you know, if if like 183 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:14,600 Speaker 1: all the negative stereotypes are true, then we're just dirt balls. 184 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:18,679 Speaker 1: So there's there's got to be a way of looking 185 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:20,240 Speaker 1: at it that makes sense. And and the way that 186 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:22,960 Speaker 1: I've always said it is that I believe that if 187 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:25,679 Speaker 1: we were in if we could remove ourselves from this 188 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:30,960 Speaker 1: planet and go to another place that was just in 189 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:35,960 Speaker 1: some standard of you know, just nous, and you could 190 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:40,080 Speaker 1: present the case for hunting large predators based upon the 191 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 1: world that we'd come from, because we're not there anymore, 192 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:44,520 Speaker 1: I think we'd win. I mean, it's it's rational, it 193 00:11:44,559 --> 00:11:49,400 Speaker 1: makes sense, that's sustainable, it's uh, there's all these positive things, 194 00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:54,880 Speaker 1: and then the negative things oftentimes are not as rational. 195 00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:59,959 Speaker 1: They're emotional, and there really aren't totally based in fact. 196 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:04,480 Speaker 1: That being said, nothing's perfect there. There there's bad they're 197 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:06,640 Speaker 1: bad things that have They are bad people at bait 198 00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:08,960 Speaker 1: bears and run hounds. Well, there's bad people and everything. 199 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:12,200 Speaker 1: I mean, bad people that play tennis. Yeah, and golf. 200 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:17,480 Speaker 1: O'm gonna say that one. You know what, we keep 201 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:20,040 Speaker 1: going back this golfing. I kind of I told I've 202 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 1: told you this. I despised golf as a kid. My 203 00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:25,200 Speaker 1: dad pushed me to be a golfer and I was like, no, 204 00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 1: I'm not a golfer. Don't bring up golf. Well, hey, 205 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 1: I think that's a good introduction just for people that 206 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:35,120 Speaker 1: listen to like the first six or seven minutes of 207 00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:38,440 Speaker 1: the podcast. Let's talk before we dive into all that stuff. 208 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:42,320 Speaker 1: Let's let's talk about let's talk about back country hunters 209 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:45,040 Speaker 1: and anglers. Let's just give a I mean, even if 210 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:47,360 Speaker 1: we even if we just talked for a short period 211 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 1: of time here about it, like, uh, describe what back 212 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:53,679 Speaker 1: country Hunters and Anglers is from even just like a 213 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:58,520 Speaker 1: national perspective, and then what's happening here in Arkansas. B 214 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:03,240 Speaker 1: h A is the uh, the voice for wild public land, 215 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:07,200 Speaker 1: public water, and wildlife in North America. That's the tagline. 216 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 1: And um, you know when we think about public land, 217 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:17,160 Speaker 1: public water, places where people go to hunt, or they 218 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:21,040 Speaker 1: go to hike, or they go to fish or bird 219 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:22,960 Speaker 1: watch whatever it is. You know, so much of that 220 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:29,000 Speaker 1: activity takes place in publicly held land and water. But 221 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:34,440 Speaker 1: b h A you know, got started I want to say, 222 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:41,559 Speaker 1: fifteen years ago, you know something roughly its evidentially the 223 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:47,959 Speaker 1: last two three years, you know. Um, And so originally 224 00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:51,400 Speaker 1: you think about public land and and we're here sitting 225 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:55,679 Speaker 1: in northwest Arkansas, were blessed to have national forest. I mean, 226 00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 1: we're basically sitting in the middle of it, but law 227 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:02,520 Speaker 1: out of a lot of parts of the country don't 228 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:04,880 Speaker 1: have that. Of course, public land was a big deal 229 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:07,440 Speaker 1: out west. There's so many millions of acres of it 230 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:11,840 Speaker 1: out there, and when they're started to become threats to that, 231 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:14,760 Speaker 1: to you know, getting rid of that public land, I 232 00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:17,440 Speaker 1: think that's when the movement really started to to take 233 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:20,240 Speaker 1: hold and people started to pay attention to it. Now 234 00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 1: you think about it, there's public land exists for a 235 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 1: lot of reasons and recreation. It certainly is great for recreation, 236 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:31,680 Speaker 1: and it's there for other uses as well, and b 237 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:36,560 Speaker 1: h A recognizes those uses. But the part of the 238 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:40,800 Speaker 1: b h A steps up for is is the wildlife 239 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 1: that's on it and and the people who use public 240 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:48,480 Speaker 1: lands and public waters for that purpose, to give them 241 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:53,640 Speaker 1: a voice at the table um now here in in 242 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:56,880 Speaker 1: in the Southeast. You know, Arkansas right now is part 243 00:14:56,880 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 1: of the Southeast chapter of b h A. We have 244 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:03,400 Speaker 1: of six states. Now Tennessee is just just ready to 245 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 1: break off and become their own state chapter. So we'll 246 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:12,360 Speaker 1: be six states Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia and Florida 247 00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:15,360 Speaker 1: and um, so we're kind of a regional chapter. It's 248 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 1: a little bit of an experiment within b h A. 249 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:22,320 Speaker 1: But within each state, you know, we we've got a 250 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:26,520 Speaker 1: leadership structure and and we focus on the issues that 251 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:30,800 Speaker 1: are particular to that area. So Arkansas, it might be 252 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 1: the Buffalo River, it might be um you know, the 253 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 1: Ozark National Forest, might be something different in Louisiana. It's 254 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 1: something different in every one of the states. But the 255 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:44,040 Speaker 1: great thing that we have, and I don't think most 256 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:47,280 Speaker 1: of the rest of the country understands this, we've all 257 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 1: got that that Southern camaraderie, you know, the Southeast Conference mentality. 258 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:56,160 Speaker 1: You know, it's us against everybody else. It just matters 259 00:15:56,200 --> 00:16:01,880 Speaker 1: more here. So um, but here in Arkansas, what we're 260 00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:05,560 Speaker 1: specifically doing right now is building out leadership structure. We've 261 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:10,000 Speaker 1: recruited some just awesome guys that stepped up at first 262 00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:13,280 Speaker 1: and said they want to be involved in helping. And 263 00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:16,160 Speaker 1: we're not doing anything super formal with that right now 264 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:19,080 Speaker 1: other than you know, take advantage of their skills and 265 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:23,120 Speaker 1: their talents and desires and then you know, over the 266 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:27,000 Speaker 1: next I don't know, let's say six or eight months, 267 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:32,360 Speaker 1: we will start identifying the we'll name the seats on 268 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:35,080 Speaker 1: the bus, We'll start putting people in those seats on 269 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:36,720 Speaker 1: the bus, and we're gonna figure out where to drive 270 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 1: the bus. That's the analogy that I like to use UM. 271 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 1: And we don't have any formal goals around you know, 272 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:48,840 Speaker 1: being being the next state to break out of the 273 00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:52,200 Speaker 1: chapter or anything like that right now. But but what 274 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:54,360 Speaker 1: we do have is we want to get that leadership 275 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:59,080 Speaker 1: structure in place so that we can benefit from the 276 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:03,320 Speaker 1: rest of the Southeast Chapters leadership. And then UM bring 277 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:05,920 Speaker 1: BHAs message here to Arkansas. And what does that mean 278 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:08,000 Speaker 1: for Arkansas? That's another question we get all the time, 279 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:09,520 Speaker 1: like why do I need to join b h A 280 00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:15,199 Speaker 1: UM what's important in public lands and waters here in Arkansas? 281 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:18,119 Speaker 1: Think about where does a lot of our duck hunting happen, 282 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:23,680 Speaker 1: public land, public water. UM. You know, we've got world 283 00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:30,080 Speaker 1: class trout fisheries, striper fisheries, we've got UM, you know, 284 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:33,520 Speaker 1: just just all these different resources in the state that 285 00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:37,159 Speaker 1: we've got that heritage of taking advantage of those here 286 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:43,280 Speaker 1: in Arkansas. And yeah, we're not maybe under direct threat 287 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:46,119 Speaker 1: right now. Let's hope we never get there. But but 288 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:50,560 Speaker 1: let's let's have something in place for if it ever 289 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:53,679 Speaker 1: did happen. Exactly right, and I think you said it, 290 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:56,639 Speaker 1: but a lot of the Western issues revolve around public 291 00:17:56,720 --> 00:18:00,119 Speaker 1: lands actually being sold back to the state. That a 292 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:02,920 Speaker 1: pretty big deal. Like there's just keep you know, public 293 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:05,280 Speaker 1: public lands and public hands and that's pretty much what 294 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:09,560 Speaker 1: that is referring back to. And and in super Layman's 295 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:12,520 Speaker 1: short terms, is that it doesn't sound so bad for 296 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:15,000 Speaker 1: public land to be sold back to the state, except 297 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:18,119 Speaker 1: the history of that transaction usually means that once it 298 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:20,199 Speaker 1: sold to the state, they don't have enough money to 299 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:23,720 Speaker 1: maintain it, and they shut stuff down, and they potentially 300 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:26,960 Speaker 1: even ended up setting it into private hands. So it's 301 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:30,240 Speaker 1: like what what b h A from what I understand, 302 00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:33,040 Speaker 1: and I'm a member of b h A, is that 303 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:37,359 Speaker 1: you know, no net loss of public land anywhere in 304 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:40,800 Speaker 1: the country, and an expansion of public lands and just 305 00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:43,520 Speaker 1: the rights of who gets to go there, and and 306 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:46,359 Speaker 1: a lot of those issues are more Western stuff, but 307 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:49,360 Speaker 1: there's plenty of stuff here in Arkansas that I'm sure 308 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:51,919 Speaker 1: that you guys will get involved with. C w D 309 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:54,480 Speaker 1: is another one just to briefly touch on, you know, 310 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:58,119 Speaker 1: that was something that was passed at Rendezvous just back 311 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:02,919 Speaker 1: in early May. And um, we'll be we'll be advocating 312 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:06,119 Speaker 1: for more money for research and things like that. You know, 313 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:09,679 Speaker 1: obviously here in Arkansas there's parts of area that's a 314 00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:12,360 Speaker 1: big deal. Yeah, you know, I think the biggest thing 315 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:15,720 Speaker 1: that b h A has done on a national scale 316 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:19,440 Speaker 1: has brought attention to public lands and and seeing and 317 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:23,080 Speaker 1: and they've made it They've made it cool to appreciate 318 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:27,159 Speaker 1: public lands, and that is a I mean, it's kind 319 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:30,639 Speaker 1: of a no brainer. But I mean I think it myself. 320 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:32,840 Speaker 1: I've been influenced by it. I mean, I'm in public 321 00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:34,960 Speaker 1: land my whole life, and it's kind of like you 322 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:38,359 Speaker 1: just it's just your right and seeing. That's where like 323 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:41,040 Speaker 1: a difference of how how you and I grew up. 324 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:47,000 Speaker 1: Because in twenty I think it was ten, we were 325 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:50,440 Speaker 1: on vacation, maybe it's even twenty sixteen. We're on vacation 326 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:53,880 Speaker 1: in Colorado and we're driving through National Forest and BLM 327 00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:57,199 Speaker 1: Land and I'm I'm on my phone, like the kids are, 328 00:19:57,320 --> 00:20:00,399 Speaker 1: so what's public land mean? Dad? I'm like, man, I 329 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:04,000 Speaker 1: don't quite understand that. So, I mean I'm googling what's 330 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:07,160 Speaker 1: the difference between BLM and for a service land and 331 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:09,639 Speaker 1: what is that. And we actually took I mean, you know, 332 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:12,560 Speaker 1: much to my wife's chagrin, we just turned off the 333 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:15,399 Speaker 1: highway in one place and just took off, took the 334 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:19,120 Speaker 1: took the gate down, drove across, put the gate back up, 335 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:23,720 Speaker 1: and just drove out into this, into this rolling pasture, 336 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:29,240 Speaker 1: you know, public land, and just went driving around, took pictures, 337 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:30,960 Speaker 1: you know, until it was my wife was like, Okay, 338 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:33,679 Speaker 1: this is enough, let's go back to the road. And 339 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:36,480 Speaker 1: uh that's when that's for me, when it started to 340 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:39,720 Speaker 1: become real that like, okay, this is what it means, 341 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:41,520 Speaker 1: like this is a place we can go and just 342 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:44,159 Speaker 1: go do stuff. But I didn't have that experience growing up, 343 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:47,960 Speaker 1: so I had to physically experience it to get it. Yeah. Well, 344 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:51,320 Speaker 1: I think it's and I think just the knowledge of 345 00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:54,520 Speaker 1: the knowledge of the history of public lands and so 346 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:57,399 Speaker 1: powerful too. And I mean this is something that I 347 00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:01,160 Speaker 1: would have known before. But it's like I can't can't 348 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:02,879 Speaker 1: be denied that b h A has brought it to 349 00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:06,439 Speaker 1: the forefront and that this experiment with public lands in 350 00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:10,240 Speaker 1: North America is a very unique thing to the world, 351 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 1: very unique thing for man the history of mankind that 352 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:17,879 Speaker 1: a government would say this land is for everybody, because 353 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:23,240 Speaker 1: typically kings and monarchs took stuff for themselves, Like for real, 354 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:26,640 Speaker 1: like the that's the king's forest, you can't go in there. 355 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:29,879 Speaker 1: I mean, that's typically how the world has worked for 356 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:33,000 Speaker 1: a thousand years. And that's the that's what money does. 357 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:37,720 Speaker 1: You know, money, Money buys you exclusion in a lot 358 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:42,800 Speaker 1: of cases. And so it was a happy accident. I 359 00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:45,679 Speaker 1: think it was just an experiment. I mean, it was 360 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:49,000 Speaker 1: Roosevelt and a bunch of other people that were just like, hey, 361 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:54,440 Speaker 1: these these places are worth protecting. Let's make this eternally 362 00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:58,199 Speaker 1: the land, uh, you know, the land owned by the 363 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:01,680 Speaker 1: people and citizens the United States. And what we can't 364 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:04,560 Speaker 1: forget and we can't forget inside that narrative is that 365 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:08,520 Speaker 1: Roosevelt most of those guys that were influential inside of that, 366 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:12,120 Speaker 1: did it because they loved hunting. I mean for real, 367 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:17,199 Speaker 1: I mean obviously the purpose of it was bigger than that, 368 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:19,800 Speaker 1: and Roosevelt knew that. I mean, like this is you know, 369 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:21,680 Speaker 1: not everybody's gonna just come here to hunt, and there's 370 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:23,680 Speaker 1: some places that you couldn't hunt. I mean, the national 371 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:28,040 Speaker 1: parks and stuff, but in general that they were. Roosevelt 372 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:30,760 Speaker 1: loved land because he loved to hunt. I'm reading a 373 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:35,080 Speaker 1: book by Roosevelt right now called Tales of the Grizzly. 374 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:37,679 Speaker 1: I think he spelled grizzly with an S rather than 375 00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:41,400 Speaker 1: Z like we do today. And it was his his 376 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:44,080 Speaker 1: book that he wrote about all his bear hunting. And 377 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:47,639 Speaker 1: I'm actually pretty amazed at the knowledge that he had 378 00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:54,359 Speaker 1: chapters and chapters on on bear, uh just bear related, 379 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:58,439 Speaker 1: not biology really, but just his observations anyway. I mean, 380 00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 1: the guy was in love with wild place is because 381 00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:03,639 Speaker 1: of wildlife and because he loved to hunt and and 382 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:08,720 Speaker 1: and it's an interesting thing to think about how people 383 00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:12,240 Speaker 1: who love to go out and and hunt that wildlife. 384 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:14,920 Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, I get it people, some people want 385 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:17,480 Speaker 1: to go look at it. But the ones spending the 386 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:20,879 Speaker 1: money on it and contributing to it are the hunters 387 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:24,440 Speaker 1: and anglers who are out there pursuing it for their 388 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:29,720 Speaker 1: recreational purpose. And uh, we can't beat that drum loud enough. 389 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:35,719 Speaker 1: Where where where wildlife has cultural value, deep cultural value, 390 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:40,640 Speaker 1: specifically through hunting it is it is protected. And where 391 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:43,800 Speaker 1: wildlife is protected, the other way to protect wildlife. Wildlife 392 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:47,240 Speaker 1: is through game but regulations, but primarily through habitat preservation. 393 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:50,320 Speaker 1: I mean, we can't have bear and deer and turkeys 394 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:52,120 Speaker 1: and elk unless we got a place for him to live. 395 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:54,399 Speaker 1: So if you love wildlife, want to protect it, you 396 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 1: protect habitat. And I mean that is the drum. That's 397 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:03,280 Speaker 1: the drum. And and them back to even jumping into 398 00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:05,560 Speaker 1: what we're gonna talk about. I mean, I think it's 399 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:10,439 Speaker 1: important that we understand the foundational the foundational ethics for 400 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:15,119 Speaker 1: why we're not just justified, but why it is right 401 00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:20,000 Speaker 1: that we have the right to hunt, you know, and 402 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:23,240 Speaker 1: and and the main thing too is that it's worked. 403 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:27,680 Speaker 1: This it's no longer an experiment, you know, seventy five 404 00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:29,960 Speaker 1: years ago, it was kind of an experiment, you know. 405 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:33,399 Speaker 1: Roosevelt them in eight eighty nine, I think eight seven 406 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:35,520 Speaker 1: maybe was when they created the Boot and Crockett Club, 407 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:38,600 Speaker 1: and that was kind of the beginning point of coming 408 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:42,600 Speaker 1: from this century of mass degradation of wildlife. And then 409 00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:44,720 Speaker 1: all these guys were like, wait a minute, all this 410 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:46,800 Speaker 1: big game is gonna die off. We gotta do something. 411 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:48,520 Speaker 1: So I mean that's that's kind of like a point 412 00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:51,720 Speaker 1: when you could say something started then forty or fifty 413 00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:56,120 Speaker 1: years later, uh Aldo Leopold, a bunch other guys started, 414 00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 1: you know, it just it just kind of built on 415 00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:01,080 Speaker 1: and this idea of wildlife management, that we can manage 416 00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:04,560 Speaker 1: this wildlife strategically and manage land. And and it's like 417 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:07,000 Speaker 1: back then it was kind of an experiment, Let's see 418 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:09,879 Speaker 1: if this works. And then now here we are hundred 419 00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:13,280 Speaker 1: and twenty years later, hundred and thirty years later in 420 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:15,840 Speaker 1: the North American midle of wildlife conservation, and what we've 421 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:19,680 Speaker 1: done with habitat is created a continent that has more 422 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:22,640 Speaker 1: big game than any place on the Earth. I tell 423 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:26,200 Speaker 1: people that on YouTube almost daily. I'm pointing my finger 424 00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:28,720 Speaker 1: for all those of you listening, I'm pointing at Kolbe 425 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:31,680 Speaker 1: for emphasis. Now, I'm serious because on our YouTube channel 426 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:34,640 Speaker 1: we get a lot of interaction from people from other countries. 427 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:38,280 Speaker 1: They see shoot a bear and they they it just 428 00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 1: makes the well for them. It is they think it's 429 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:45,679 Speaker 1: the last one on the earth. Yeah for real. I 430 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:48,639 Speaker 1: mean they're like these are endangered. It's always in broken English, 431 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:51,959 Speaker 1: you know, and it's like these are in dangerous. How 432 00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:56,560 Speaker 1: could you do this? I hope your family dies. We 433 00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:59,480 Speaker 1: have to do today. I translated a comment I didn't 434 00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:01,600 Speaker 1: know what it was, and it was actually a good comment. 435 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:06,960 Speaker 1: But and and I'm always and I have the same 436 00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:10,000 Speaker 1: banter that always go back. It's just like we have 437 00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:13,240 Speaker 1: more big game than any place on the earth. Most 438 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:16,400 Speaker 1: places killed out their big game a thousand years ago, 439 00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:19,840 Speaker 1: or they put it, you know, it's held in reserve somewhere, 440 00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:23,840 Speaker 1: you know, by the barons or you know, the kings 441 00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:28,080 Speaker 1: or whatever it is. And you can't you can't go 442 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:30,520 Speaker 1: over there and do that. Don't don't shoot the king's 443 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:35,800 Speaker 1: deer or whatever it is. Yeah, yeah, well, so, I 444 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:38,760 Speaker 1: mean that's that's the thing that's so powerful to me, 445 00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:41,400 Speaker 1: is that what we're doing is not an experiment. It's 446 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:44,600 Speaker 1: it's working. And uh, and it's the hunters that have 447 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:49,600 Speaker 1: primarily done it, and that's just hard to deny. And uh, 448 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:51,600 Speaker 1: that doesn't give us a right to just do whatever 449 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,720 Speaker 1: we want. I mean, it doesn't, it doesn't. But but 450 00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:57,840 Speaker 1: it is well, and it's still we still can't always 451 00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:00,919 Speaker 1: agree on what that means. Is hunters right there, And 452 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:03,880 Speaker 1: that's that's a good maybe that's a good lead into 453 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:10,639 Speaker 1: even the conversation at hand. Just yeah, so Bear hunting. 454 00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:13,160 Speaker 1: If we're gonna if we're gonna open up that that 455 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,800 Speaker 1: can you know, hunting large predators in general is a 456 00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:21,840 Speaker 1: it's a hot button topic. It's a controversial topic amongst 457 00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:26,560 Speaker 1: people that have no concept of hunting or rural lifestyle 458 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:31,960 Speaker 1: or tradition or scientific base wildlife management. It's a hot 459 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:35,679 Speaker 1: button with them, but it's also a hot button with 460 00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:42,040 Speaker 1: people hunters are our allies that don't understand. Um So, 461 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:46,600 Speaker 1: and when we say large predators in North America, what 462 00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:50,480 Speaker 1: we're talking about is grizzly bearris, black bears, and mountain lions. Basically, 463 00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:52,600 Speaker 1: those would be the large pred polar You can hunt 464 00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:55,800 Speaker 1: polar bears in a few places. Um but those are 465 00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:58,880 Speaker 1: those are the primary targets that that's that's what we're 466 00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:04,680 Speaker 1: talking about. Um So, what would what would you say 467 00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:07,719 Speaker 1: or where would you like to start with? Just just 468 00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:09,680 Speaker 1: kind of something and if you if you wanted even 469 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:14,640 Speaker 1: to just pick a certain a certain method of honey, Well, 470 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:17,800 Speaker 1: let's let's because I brought it up before, So let's 471 00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:21,639 Speaker 1: talk about baiting a little bit. I knew you were 472 00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:25,320 Speaker 1: going to bring it up. Yeah, you were ready, um 473 00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:34,880 Speaker 1: baited yourself into that one. Wow. So so, you've walked 474 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:42,920 Speaker 1: into my trap. Uh exactly, so ensnared another another form call. 475 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:44,600 Speaker 1: But you gotta you gotta jump in here too. I'm 476 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:50,160 Speaker 1: gonna help me. I'm gonna dial them back now, all right. So, 477 00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:56,080 Speaker 1: so when it comes to baiting, obviously some places in 478 00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:58,200 Speaker 1: the u S you can, in some places you can't. 479 00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:05,520 Speaker 1: So as I came so first of all, you know, 480 00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:08,160 Speaker 1: my first introduction to big game hunting was obviously white tail, 481 00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:10,080 Speaker 1: as it is for most people. And that's about all 482 00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:12,240 Speaker 1: I did, and that's about all I wanted to do. 483 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:15,480 Speaker 1: And then um started to get a little bit more 484 00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:17,680 Speaker 1: interested in maybe a western hunt. I went on a 485 00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:21,520 Speaker 1: prong horn hunt last fall, and that was fun. You know, 486 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:25,080 Speaker 1: I would say that equating it to something in the 487 00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:27,480 Speaker 1: fishing world, that's like taking your kid out and going 488 00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:31,120 Speaker 1: blue yeo fishing you know, some worms and going to 489 00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:33,880 Speaker 1: the dock. And I mean it's not quite that easy. 490 00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:36,720 Speaker 1: It's it's a little more difficult than that. But lots 491 00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:38,640 Speaker 1: of things to see, lots of game. You get to 492 00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:42,160 Speaker 1: see it moving around all over the place. Okay, so 493 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:44,440 Speaker 1: I've crossed that bridge. I'm like, Okay, now stuff's getting 494 00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:49,479 Speaker 1: a little more interesting to me. Um, but like when 495 00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:55,800 Speaker 1: it comes to hunting bears, Um, why why would you 496 00:29:55,960 --> 00:30:00,280 Speaker 1: use bait? Why? And and I even only just took 497 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:04,120 Speaker 1: up archery hunting last fall and never wasn't successful at all, 498 00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:08,720 Speaker 1: didn't really get a shot at anything. But um, why 499 00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:14,000 Speaker 1: would you why would you need bait to to to 500 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:17,840 Speaker 1: hunt a bear? Well? Can I ask you a question first? 501 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:21,600 Speaker 1: We'll see, let me put it back now, like, would 502 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:26,320 Speaker 1: you like from a new hunter coming into this, would 503 00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:29,959 Speaker 1: you have ethical issues like if you were to go 504 00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:32,680 Speaker 1: do it? Yeah? Yeah, I think that's what would you 505 00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:35,840 Speaker 1: would what would be what would be the thing that 506 00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:38,600 Speaker 1: would be like this could be bad? See, I would 507 00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:42,080 Speaker 1: I feel a little uneasy about it from the standpoint 508 00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:48,080 Speaker 1: of altering the natural habit of the natural habit of 509 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:50,840 Speaker 1: the bear exactly take an advantage of it. And that's 510 00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:55,560 Speaker 1: I think that's just something that's formed in me over time. 511 00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:58,840 Speaker 1: It's not necessarily you know, I'm not repeating. I mean 512 00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:01,200 Speaker 1: I've heard that said before, but I think from the 513 00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:06,680 Speaker 1: standpoint of, um, if I wanted to try to be 514 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:11,120 Speaker 1: as natural of environment as I could, then the use 515 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:15,760 Speaker 1: of bait to me feels like I'm altering that in 516 00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:19,640 Speaker 1: a way. That's unfair to the animal. Okay, no, that's good. 517 00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:24,200 Speaker 1: You know. I think the baseline understanding that a lot 518 00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:28,400 Speaker 1: of people don't have about bear is that bears are 519 00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:33,239 Speaker 1: so widely geographically distributed from the I say this all 520 00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:35,920 Speaker 1: the time, from the Atlantic Ocean to the Pacific Ocean, 521 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:39,200 Speaker 1: from the northern boreal forest all the way down to 522 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:42,800 Speaker 1: Old Mexico as the native black bear range. And we're 523 00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:44,840 Speaker 1: talking about black bears, I'm talking about baiting. Let's just 524 00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:47,640 Speaker 1: say that and and that. Why is that? Why is 525 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:49,400 Speaker 1: it only black bears on that you're talking about that? 526 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:53,120 Speaker 1: Just because we know pretty baiting grizzlies would be like 527 00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:56,640 Speaker 1: a pretty rare thing. It's legal in Alaska kind a 528 00:31:56,680 --> 00:32:00,480 Speaker 1: few places, because just not that it's they just feel 529 00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:02,760 Speaker 1: like it's more relevant to talk about baiting black bears. 530 00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:05,800 Speaker 1: Why isn't it legal though, Well, because they don't have 531 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:08,440 Speaker 1: any trouble. Well, that's a great question. Because they don't 532 00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:16,080 Speaker 1: have any trouble managing the populations with other methods. So 533 00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:19,480 Speaker 1: that is ultimately so if you understand this, why geographic 534 00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:23,719 Speaker 1: distribution of black bear in these wide varieties of habitats 535 00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:27,760 Speaker 1: eastern deciduous forests basically from where we're at right now 536 00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:30,400 Speaker 1: in western Arkansas all the way to the Atlantic Ocean 537 00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:35,720 Speaker 1: for the most part today is heavily forested eastern deciduous forest. 538 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:40,920 Speaker 1: Most places in Arkansas the visibility is about fifty yards. 539 00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:43,239 Speaker 1: So what I'm getting at, and I can describe in 540 00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:47,200 Speaker 1: more detail, is that the only places that you can 541 00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:51,360 Speaker 1: bait bears, it is used as a management tool to 542 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:54,480 Speaker 1: harvest the amount of bears that they need harvested out 543 00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:56,959 Speaker 1: of a certain region. So it's more of a scientific 544 00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:01,280 Speaker 1: approach rather than a convenience. I mean that that is, 545 00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:05,520 Speaker 1: that's not even like doctored up theory, that that is 546 00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:07,840 Speaker 1: the truth. You don't have to go to your like 547 00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:10,760 Speaker 1: bear hunter manual and this is what you say, that's 548 00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:14,600 Speaker 1: actually that's what the biologist would say exactly. No, I'm 549 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:17,400 Speaker 1: being serious. I mean sometimes people we we spend things. 550 00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:20,640 Speaker 1: And when I say we, I'm just telling like mankind 551 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:23,800 Speaker 1: in general can spend something to make it feel like 552 00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:27,960 Speaker 1: it's in his favor. But I mean, uh, like a 553 00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:30,760 Speaker 1: lot of Western states if they can harvest, because what 554 00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:36,600 Speaker 1: what states do state biologists. The ethic of wildlife management 555 00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:39,400 Speaker 1: organizations run by the federal government of the state government 556 00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:43,200 Speaker 1: is that we want to utilize wildlife for the people, 557 00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:47,120 Speaker 1: but also for the greatest good of that particular species 558 00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:49,600 Speaker 1: of animals in general. I mean, that's the ethic of it. 559 00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:54,520 Speaker 1: And so wildlife managers say, we have this amount of habitat, 560 00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:58,600 Speaker 1: we have this number of animals, This amount of habitat 561 00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:03,280 Speaker 1: will hold this number of animals. We that population of 562 00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:07,280 Speaker 1: animals expands by this mathematical percentage every year, and for 563 00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:10,160 Speaker 1: bear that's ten percent per year. So if you have 564 00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:13,680 Speaker 1: a population of a thousand animals next year, you're gonna 565 00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:21,920 Speaker 1: have animals. The next year you're gonna have yeah, you know. 566 00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:24,640 Speaker 1: And and so just so what they say is to 567 00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:28,600 Speaker 1: stabilize the pon So once that population fills up the habitat, 568 00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:33,799 Speaker 1: then they have to take out the surplus animals every year. 569 00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:38,840 Speaker 1: And so they find ways to do that through management tools, 570 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:41,680 Speaker 1: which would either be through spot and stock hunting. Where 571 00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:45,359 Speaker 1: there's no can't bait, can't run hounds. All you can 572 00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:46,759 Speaker 1: do is just go out in the woods and try 573 00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:49,920 Speaker 1: to kill a bear. Um they did that in Arkansas 574 00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:54,359 Speaker 1: for twenty one years from night to two thousand one, 575 00:34:54,960 --> 00:35:00,280 Speaker 1: and we killed about five two maybe the maximum amount 576 00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:02,720 Speaker 1: of bears we ever killed was fifty in the entire 577 00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:06,400 Speaker 1: state in a given year. Well, the population began to 578 00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:08,600 Speaker 1: expand so much that the game and Fish said, we 579 00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:11,800 Speaker 1: have to have a way to manage these bears through hunters. 580 00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:14,520 Speaker 1: And so they said, we're going to open up baiting 581 00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:17,320 Speaker 1: bears on public land, and we're gonna manage these bears 582 00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:21,200 Speaker 1: through Arkansas's bow hunters. I mean, so, so baiting was 583 00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:23,160 Speaker 1: the only way that it could be done. And the 584 00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:29,000 Speaker 1: private land in Arkansas private land in certain zones in Arkansas, 585 00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:32,279 Speaker 1: and so baiting is a management tool. And that was 586 00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:34,880 Speaker 1: the That was the foundational point, James, that I was 587 00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:38,440 Speaker 1: gonna say that has to be understood is that we 588 00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:41,600 Speaker 1: take these things and we turn them into and I'm 589 00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:45,960 Speaker 1: gonna air quotes sport. I mean, because we enjoy hunting. 590 00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:48,759 Speaker 1: We do, and I didn't enjoy it, we wouldn't do it. 591 00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:53,280 Speaker 1: And and so what what somebody might see as sport, 592 00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:56,480 Speaker 1: But actually we're killing two birds with one beautiful stone, 593 00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:00,200 Speaker 1: and that beautiful stone is is that we're managing high 594 00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:04,240 Speaker 1: life based upon science, based upon things that have worked 595 00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:07,839 Speaker 1: in the past and are working extremely well. But we're 596 00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:13,520 Speaker 1: also enjoying, enjoying the resource. We're enjoying hunting. We're enjoying 597 00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:16,360 Speaker 1: bear meat, we're enjoying the challenge. We're enjoying these things 598 00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:20,600 Speaker 1: and so um, so that would be like the foundational thing. 599 00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:25,080 Speaker 1: This is a management tool. Let me go on? Shall 600 00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:30,799 Speaker 1: I go on? Please? Please do the the management tools. 601 00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:34,759 Speaker 1: The more effective management tool is, the more selective that 602 00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:38,920 Speaker 1: hunters can be. So like in bating, I can be 603 00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:42,520 Speaker 1: highly selective on which animal I take out, and the 604 00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:47,160 Speaker 1: hunting culture of a certain region dictates kind of how 605 00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:50,560 Speaker 1: that plays out. What we're what we're trying to do 606 00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:54,160 Speaker 1: in Arkansas is to build and this is this is 607 00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:57,759 Speaker 1: gonna throw people off. But well, I won't use the 608 00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:01,680 Speaker 1: catch phrase I'll throw people off. We are I'm we're 609 00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:06,920 Speaker 1: trying to tell people shoot older mature males over bait. Yeah, 610 00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:10,520 Speaker 1: that's the target animal. The T word. Don't say it, 611 00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:19,400 Speaker 1: no for real? Um. And so if there's a reason 612 00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:23,520 Speaker 1: for that, there's a biological reason for that, right absolutely. 613 00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:27,200 Speaker 1: I mean to an older mature males already contributed to 614 00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:31,080 Speaker 1: the gene pool and he is, there is no net 615 00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:34,319 Speaker 1: loss on the population when he is extracted. So by 616 00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:39,600 Speaker 1: targeting older mature males, we we give preference to juveniles 617 00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:42,560 Speaker 1: and females and let them grow up and do what 618 00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:45,160 Speaker 1: they do. So I mean like hunting older mature males 619 00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:48,360 Speaker 1: is the best thing to do in almost any type 620 00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:51,840 Speaker 1: of population. And so when I say the most effective, 621 00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:53,560 Speaker 1: like we could go out here on private land and 622 00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:55,759 Speaker 1: good bear country in Arkansas and get seven or eight 623 00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:58,520 Speaker 1: ten bears coming into our bait. Now, could you go 624 00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:00,279 Speaker 1: in there with a bow and kill one on any 625 00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:03,200 Speaker 1: given day? Man, you you've got your work cut out 626 00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:05,000 Speaker 1: for you. And a lot of people wouldn't understand that, 627 00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:08,719 Speaker 1: and that didn't necessarily what this conversation is about. But 628 00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:14,280 Speaker 1: you can be selective when I go into the national 629 00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:18,120 Speaker 1: forest to hunt bears. Let me just stop right there 630 00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:20,640 Speaker 1: and say, are those points clear? Yeah? I'm not a 631 00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:24,319 Speaker 1: selective And it's a management I think the management tool 632 00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:31,440 Speaker 1: piece of it is. That's like a uh, like a 633 00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:35,880 Speaker 1: lightning strike kind of thing. Um when we when we 634 00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:41,080 Speaker 1: talk about hunting a conservation, and and most hunters will 635 00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:47,000 Speaker 1: use that as a justification hunting his conservation. Okay, So 636 00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:50,320 Speaker 1: if we're gonna use hunting a conservation, then we want it, 637 00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:53,520 Speaker 1: we need to be effective with it. And so in 638 00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:56,600 Speaker 1: bear hunting, you know, even though I don't. I don't 639 00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:59,200 Speaker 1: do that right now, and I don't didn't. Let's say 640 00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:02,480 Speaker 1: I don't understand it. If that's the best way to 641 00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:08,040 Speaker 1: manage that population for a conservation, then I that's a gateway, 642 00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:11,400 Speaker 1: like I can I can step over that chasm that 643 00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:13,799 Speaker 1: I had. Now I have a bridge to get from 644 00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:15,520 Speaker 1: one side to the other, and I can say, Okay, 645 00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:20,040 Speaker 1: I can respect that. I can understand that now, I 646 00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:24,080 Speaker 1: mean I could. I I could say, maybe baiting isn't 647 00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:26,480 Speaker 1: the right way to go about other species, and we 648 00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:30,480 Speaker 1: don't have to get into that. But but for bears, Okay, 649 00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:32,840 Speaker 1: I get it. And that's a good point. Probably for 650 00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:35,480 Speaker 1: white tailed deer, we could kill all the white tailed 651 00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:39,879 Speaker 1: deer we needed without baiting in Arkansas. Probably, yeah, I mean, 652 00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:43,319 Speaker 1: but we might have to sharpen our skills a little bit. 653 00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:47,600 Speaker 1: But but I know what you're saying. I'm picking up. Okay, 654 00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:50,440 Speaker 1: here's here's the Here's I think the term would be. 655 00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:54,640 Speaker 1: The counter factual is what if there was no baiting. 656 00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:56,880 Speaker 1: Let's look at that world. Let's look at the world 657 00:39:56,880 --> 00:40:01,080 Speaker 1: of Arkansas where you know, people just said you can't 658 00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:04,720 Speaker 1: bait bears, that's wrong. Well, this is what would happen 659 00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:09,440 Speaker 1: is that. And I know this because I have tracked 660 00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:12,440 Speaker 1: Arkansas bear hunting for the last twenty years. And I 661 00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:15,000 Speaker 1: mean there are very few people in state of Arkansas 662 00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:17,480 Speaker 1: that are consistently going out and killing bears in the 663 00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:21,480 Speaker 1: National Forest, just without bait, without hounds, just like going 664 00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:24,160 Speaker 1: out and just hunting them like deer. Very few people now. Granted, 665 00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:26,080 Speaker 1: if that was the only thing we could do, there 666 00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:28,680 Speaker 1: would be more people doing it, and people would find 667 00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:31,520 Speaker 1: ways to be successful maybe, but you'd also lose some 668 00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:34,040 Speaker 1: people because you can only go out and beat your 669 00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:37,360 Speaker 1: head against the rock for so long before you give up. Yes, 670 00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:41,279 Speaker 1: that's a good point. So here's what would happen. I mean, 671 00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:43,440 Speaker 1: I can guarantee it. This is what would happen. Is 672 00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:45,720 Speaker 1: we would maybe get to a point where we killed 673 00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:50,560 Speaker 1: a hundred and fifty bears a year, where and and 674 00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:54,120 Speaker 1: and we have got to take out four hundred bears 675 00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:58,839 Speaker 1: a year for this bear population not to just explode. Well, 676 00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:02,359 Speaker 1: and so I think that's a good segue into something 677 00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:04,319 Speaker 1: else I wanted to ask you about, which is what 678 00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:08,080 Speaker 1: happens when the bear population explodes? Good question. So, so 679 00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:15,239 Speaker 1: bear hunting as um it's a management tool obviously you've 680 00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:17,399 Speaker 1: got if you get too many bears, you get too 681 00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:19,719 Speaker 1: many of any animal on the landscape, you know, that 682 00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:24,440 Speaker 1: causes problems with what they eat and the habitat they 683 00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:28,200 Speaker 1: you know, they destroy the habitat um. But but what 684 00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:31,160 Speaker 1: else goes on? Well, there's a there's a phrase that 685 00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:35,280 Speaker 1: biologists used called cultural tolerance. So what is the cultural 686 00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:37,840 Speaker 1: tolerance of this region for people to have bears walking 687 00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:41,879 Speaker 1: through their yard and people bears walking up on their 688 00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:45,640 Speaker 1: porch eating their bird feeders, stuff like this. But here, 689 00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:48,799 Speaker 1: here's here's a version of what would happen, is that 690 00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:52,719 Speaker 1: bears would begin to saturate into places that people don't 691 00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:55,719 Speaker 1: want them. There would be bears, you know, on I 692 00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:58,080 Speaker 1: live kind of in the city limits of a rural 693 00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:01,520 Speaker 1: town in northwest Arkansas. I mean, if there were bears 694 00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:05,799 Speaker 1: walking through this town every day, rummaging through people's we'd 695 00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:08,520 Speaker 1: have all kinds of problems that would put pressure on 696 00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:10,719 Speaker 1: the game and fish. Game and fish would have to 697 00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:14,400 Speaker 1: trap foward to five hundred problem bears a year, massive 698 00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:17,640 Speaker 1: amount of money, massive amount of energy that had problem bears, 699 00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:23,080 Speaker 1: and ultimately bears would die. Ultimately, ultimately they would euthanize 700 00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:26,719 Speaker 1: the amount of bears that they would have to. I mean, 701 00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:28,719 Speaker 1: it would be a good experiment to just let this 702 00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:32,000 Speaker 1: thing go for fifty years and see how many bears 703 00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:35,279 Speaker 1: they had to euthanize in order to stabilize the population 704 00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:39,400 Speaker 1: with grizzlies. Now exactly. We did a we did a 705 00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:46,560 Speaker 1: podcast with Joe ondellas Yellostone Bear Country Association, Western Bear Foundation. Now, yeah, 706 00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:51,919 Speaker 1: there the state officials killed forty four grizzly bears last year, 707 00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:55,879 Speaker 1: euthanized forty four problem grizzly bears that they had, and 708 00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:59,440 Speaker 1: you know out there they have they don't want to 709 00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:03,000 Speaker 1: kill those things like there, this is like last resort 710 00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:09,000 Speaker 1: they harvest. They killed euthanized forty four bears. What we're 711 00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:13,200 Speaker 1: fighting for out there is a twenty bear hunter quota 712 00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:16,719 Speaker 1: for bears. All we're saying is those have twenty bear 713 00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:20,560 Speaker 1: tags a year that we can utilize, and uh, they're 714 00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:24,280 Speaker 1: killing more, they're killing more. Inside of that, what happens 715 00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:28,080 Speaker 1: when you start to hunt a predator like that man 716 00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:30,120 Speaker 1: that we talked a little bit about this on the 717 00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:33,520 Speaker 1: podcast that that just came out. But when you have 718 00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:39,040 Speaker 1: an unhunted population of of top predators apex predators. They 719 00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:42,760 Speaker 1: just get bold and it changes them. They get bold 720 00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:46,080 Speaker 1: and it changes them and they become dangerous. The most 721 00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:49,560 Speaker 1: dangerous grizzly bears on the planet are out there in 722 00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:54,680 Speaker 1: the Yellowstone Region, um and what and so you know, 723 00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:56,880 Speaker 1: I've thought, well, what good is it gonna do to 724 00:43:56,960 --> 00:44:01,640 Speaker 1: kill twenty bears out in these places, because you're not 725 00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:04,080 Speaker 1: gonna hunt them like in the city limits of Cody, Wyoming, 726 00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:06,719 Speaker 1: where they're actually causing problems. Do you understand I'm saying, 727 00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:08,719 Speaker 1: we're we're hunting. We'd be hunting these bears in the 728 00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:11,479 Speaker 1: national forest, out in the wilderness. But if they're out there, 729 00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:14,120 Speaker 1: if you hunt them out there and leave enough space 730 00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:15,719 Speaker 1: out there for them to live, they don't have to 731 00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:18,720 Speaker 1: go to Joe described it that it's like a bucket. 732 00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:21,280 Speaker 1: You know, there's only so much volume in that bucket 733 00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:24,719 Speaker 1: for bears. The bucket is full, and now water is 734 00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:27,040 Speaker 1: flowing over the top. And so these grizzly bears are 735 00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:30,280 Speaker 1: in a bunch of places they were never even naturally before. 736 00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:33,880 Speaker 1: I mean, like, that's the way I understood Gym Sessions 737 00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:36,360 Speaker 1: and Joe to say it is that there are grizzly 738 00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:40,239 Speaker 1: bears now today in that region, inhabiting places that historically 739 00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:45,040 Speaker 1: grizzlies didn't even live, like plane, you know, like and so. 740 00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:48,120 Speaker 1: And it's because there's this bucket that's a really good bucket. 741 00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:51,320 Speaker 1: It's full spilling out. So if you killed, if you 742 00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:54,280 Speaker 1: harvested some of those bears out of the main bucket, 743 00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:57,440 Speaker 1: they wouldn't be having to flow out. Isn't part of 744 00:44:57,480 --> 00:45:02,000 Speaker 1: the argument um in the courts around grizzly bears, this 745 00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:06,759 Speaker 1: argument about connecting populations together, and you would have to 746 00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:10,040 Speaker 1: have a certain number of I mean, you would have 747 00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:13,920 Speaker 1: to overflow that bucket to force those populations to go together. 748 00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:20,000 Speaker 1: So it seems like there's this I mean, it's not counterintuitive, 749 00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:22,960 Speaker 1: but it's like the two ideas clash with each other, 750 00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:27,040 Speaker 1: Like we we we must have these bears connect with 751 00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:32,799 Speaker 1: the other populations. But when they overflow the bucket, it's 752 00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:36,040 Speaker 1: you know, broader water takes the easiest course downhill. And 753 00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:39,239 Speaker 1: so that's Cody Wyoming, let's say, or wherever it is 754 00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:42,200 Speaker 1: that they think. Some of those arguments are probably just 755 00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:45,440 Speaker 1: a good way for them to stall this thing inside 756 00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:48,000 Speaker 1: of court. I mean, would it be ideal for these 757 00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:51,640 Speaker 1: like the Cellway bitter Root population of grizzlies and this other. 758 00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:54,640 Speaker 1: And I'm not an expert really on the geography there, 759 00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:56,640 Speaker 1: but I mean, would it be ideal that all these 760 00:45:56,640 --> 00:45:59,719 Speaker 1: populations inner bread and their bears moving back and forth. 761 00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:03,880 Speaker 1: I'm sure it would be, But is it essential? No, 762 00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:07,440 Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's from what I have filtered, But 763 00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:10,239 Speaker 1: it is a I mean, the anti hunting groups are 764 00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:14,160 Speaker 1: just concerned about keeping this in court for eternity. They 765 00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:16,560 Speaker 1: would keep it in court for the next seven years. Good, 766 00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:20,680 Speaker 1: it's good business for them to make money off. I mean, like, 767 00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:26,239 Speaker 1: but but to get back to our Arkansas analogy, Um, 768 00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:28,440 Speaker 1: I mean, that's essentially what would happen. We would so 769 00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:30,520 Speaker 1: we would deal with those same kind of bear issues. 770 00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:33,360 Speaker 1: For example, if I'm vacation out in Colorado, you know, 771 00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:37,040 Speaker 1: when you roll into town, they're they're trying to educate 772 00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:41,200 Speaker 1: every tourist do not feed the bears. We do not 773 00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:43,759 Speaker 1: want the bears coming into town. And everybody's like, oh, 774 00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:47,160 Speaker 1: I want to see a bear, Well that's we don't. 775 00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:49,480 Speaker 1: We don't want to see bears in town. And we 776 00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:52,520 Speaker 1: would deal with that same kind of thing in Arkansas, right, Yeah, 777 00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:56,000 Speaker 1: And and you know a hundred pot here's here is 778 00:46:56,040 --> 00:46:59,240 Speaker 1: something that a lot of hunters wouldn't know and actually 779 00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:04,440 Speaker 1: kind of owes against in some ways. Our Our message 780 00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:10,680 Speaker 1: is that a hunted population of bears grows and expands 781 00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:15,719 Speaker 1: faster than an unhunted population. Why isn't about that? What 782 00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:20,920 Speaker 1: it's just a proven it's just a bare fact, because 783 00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:24,080 Speaker 1: that is it. Because they tend to stay in the areas, 784 00:47:24,719 --> 00:47:28,040 Speaker 1: they'll get more relis. It's even more mysterious than that. 785 00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:30,960 Speaker 1: And I don't I've never heard anybody give a real 786 00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:34,440 Speaker 1: good explanation of it. But basically it's an increase in 787 00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:38,680 Speaker 1: litter size. I mean, it's like, think about it, like 788 00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:43,240 Speaker 1: a sow bear out in the mountains here in Arkansas. 789 00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:49,359 Speaker 1: Somehow her body perceives that animals are being extracted from 790 00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:54,080 Speaker 1: the population, and so she rears three cubs rather than two. 791 00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:56,920 Speaker 1: I mean, that is essentially the way it works. That's 792 00:47:56,960 --> 00:48:00,000 Speaker 1: what's happening in Oklahoma. Like there there. We opened up 793 00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:03,359 Speaker 1: season in Oklahoma ten years ago, I think, um. And 794 00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:06,839 Speaker 1: so they they're currently inside of a research project where 795 00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:10,400 Speaker 1: they're trying to understand the impact of harvesting forty or 796 00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:12,680 Speaker 1: fifty bears out of a population, because that's all they 797 00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:15,799 Speaker 1: kill in Oklahoma between forty and seventy bears a year, 798 00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:20,360 Speaker 1: and uh, and what they're seeing is increasing litter sized already. 799 00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:24,920 Speaker 1: And so but so again, like as a as a 800 00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:28,200 Speaker 1: as a hunter that's wanting to hunt, you know, we say, well, 801 00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:31,360 Speaker 1: we're going to control the population through hunting. It's true, 802 00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:36,040 Speaker 1: but you actually have to begin. It creates a beautiful, 803 00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:41,840 Speaker 1: wonderful cycle because it creates more bears. But but it 804 00:48:42,040 --> 00:48:45,240 Speaker 1: also like if you were just a staunch anti hunter 805 00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:49,080 Speaker 1: and you said, we want bears on the landscape, I 806 00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:53,080 Speaker 1: want bears crawling in my windows at night, then we'd say, good, 807 00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:56,480 Speaker 1: let us hunt them. I mean yeah, because we'll have 808 00:48:56,520 --> 00:48:59,920 Speaker 1: more of them. Okay, you think think about it. This 809 00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:02,960 Speaker 1: way to Arkansas has had a we've been able basically 810 00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:05,560 Speaker 1: the floodgates of Arkansas bear hunting opened in two thousand 811 00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:07,759 Speaker 1: one when we were allowed to hunt bear over bait. 812 00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:11,719 Speaker 1: For twenty one years from nineteen eight to two thousand one, 813 00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:14,760 Speaker 1: all it was was just spotting stock bear hunting in Arkansas, 814 00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:18,239 Speaker 1: and we killed between five and I can't remember, yeah, 815 00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:19,920 Speaker 1: I mean and honestly I don't even know if we 816 00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:22,760 Speaker 1: ever killed fifty two thousand one, we started killing bears. 817 00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:25,360 Speaker 1: We started killing between two hundred and five hundred bears 818 00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:28,480 Speaker 1: a year. Let's just say twenty years, we killed three 819 00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:32,080 Speaker 1: hundred bears a year. Math for me, how many bears? 820 00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:35,560 Speaker 1: Is that? Six thousand bears? We've killed six thousand bears 821 00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:40,279 Speaker 1: in the last twenty years in Arkansas, and we have 822 00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:44,520 Speaker 1: more bears today than we've ever had, and more people, 823 00:49:45,600 --> 00:49:49,560 Speaker 1: I mean, honestly more people than we've ever had. You 824 00:49:49,600 --> 00:49:52,120 Speaker 1: talked to Myron Means, the bear biologist for Arkansas Game 825 00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:54,720 Speaker 1: and Fish Commission, to verify that statement. I just said, 826 00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:57,239 Speaker 1: I promise you I could text him right now, do 827 00:49:57,320 --> 00:49:59,480 Speaker 1: we have more bears in Arkansas than we've had in 828 00:49:59,560 --> 00:50:05,840 Speaker 1: the last hundred years? And he would say yes. Someday. 829 00:50:06,120 --> 00:50:08,239 Speaker 1: I would love to see in Arkansas bear in the wild. 830 00:50:08,320 --> 00:50:12,279 Speaker 1: Never seen one? Yeah, you know a lot of people haven't. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 831 00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:16,120 Speaker 1: you know experience what swimming across Beaver Lake the other day? 832 00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:19,000 Speaker 1: Do you see that? I did? Yeah? But there was 833 00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:21,160 Speaker 1: a bear and there was a bear in this town, 834 00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:24,799 Speaker 1: uh a few weeks ago, like right over here, which 835 00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:27,080 Speaker 1: is pretty I mean, there's a bear habitat here close. 836 00:50:27,120 --> 00:50:30,080 Speaker 1: There's been I've seen bearside in this hollow across the 837 00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:32,319 Speaker 1: road from me, because I mean, I've never seen a 838 00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:35,160 Speaker 1: bear on my property, but this is my dream to 839 00:50:35,239 --> 00:50:37,600 Speaker 1: one day see a bear on the properties walking right 840 00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:39,719 Speaker 1: through the backyard and should start putting some food out 841 00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:44,960 Speaker 1: for him. He's the one who doesn't like he's converted. 842 00:50:45,719 --> 00:50:50,480 Speaker 1: It didn't take much. Yeah, man, I I'm weak. No, 843 00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:52,719 Speaker 1: that's a lot of people. A lot of people don't 844 00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:56,000 Speaker 1: understand baiting like they have this. It's a it's a 845 00:50:56,640 --> 00:50:59,800 Speaker 1: it's kind of a you know, it's like is it fair? 846 00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:02,880 Speaker 1: And that's really not the right question because if the 847 00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:08,600 Speaker 1: macro concern is the health of wildlife and they're how 848 00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:11,520 Speaker 1: they live inside of habitat, then we have to go 849 00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:14,759 Speaker 1: back to what's the best management tool for this reasons? 850 00:51:15,239 --> 00:51:18,120 Speaker 1: And then once you actually start baiting bears, you realize 851 00:51:18,120 --> 00:51:20,520 Speaker 1: how hard it is. Yeah, which is true, and I've 852 00:51:20,560 --> 00:51:24,000 Speaker 1: heard you mentioned that before. I mean success right in 853 00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:26,920 Speaker 1: Arkansas for bears, they don't really have a statistic, but 854 00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:29,960 Speaker 1: I bet it would be like it's hard to get 855 00:51:29,960 --> 00:51:32,919 Speaker 1: a statistic because we all get a bear tag right 856 00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:37,840 Speaker 1: exactly right, so um, And then they also leave the 857 00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:40,439 Speaker 1: bait to go to natural foods really quick, and that's 858 00:51:40,520 --> 00:51:42,080 Speaker 1: That's the thing that makes it tough here is that 859 00:51:42,080 --> 00:51:45,080 Speaker 1: they leave bait to go to natural foods. Um so 860 00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:47,280 Speaker 1: you can. A bear would rather eat a white oakacre 861 00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:49,680 Speaker 1: and as he would a donut or anything you can 862 00:51:49,719 --> 00:51:51,520 Speaker 1: put out for him. The most animals are like that. 863 00:51:51,560 --> 00:51:53,480 Speaker 1: It's kind of odd how they figure that out. It's 864 00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:55,640 Speaker 1: better to eat the natural stuff than whatever it is 865 00:51:55,680 --> 00:51:58,160 Speaker 1: we put out for him. Yeah, we're the only species 866 00:51:58,200 --> 00:52:02,200 Speaker 1: that hadn't figured that out. We'd rather eat cheetos, I'd 867 00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:12,680 Speaker 1: rather eat venison. Yes, yes, let's talk about that. Well, okay, 868 00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:15,560 Speaker 1: there there's another point that I think is a massive 869 00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:18,440 Speaker 1: stumbling block for people is that they say, are you 870 00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:21,000 Speaker 1: gonna eat it? Do you eat bear? Well? I want to. 871 00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:22,160 Speaker 1: I want to. I want to come at it from 872 00:52:22,160 --> 00:52:24,520 Speaker 1: a little bit different angle if if that's okay with you. 873 00:52:25,640 --> 00:52:27,720 Speaker 1: So one of the things that I think has always 874 00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:32,160 Speaker 1: been a roadblock, well, I use always loosely a roadblock 875 00:52:32,239 --> 00:52:36,319 Speaker 1: for me. I heard somebody say once that when you 876 00:52:36,360 --> 00:52:38,200 Speaker 1: get down and you start skinning out a bear, man, 877 00:52:38,239 --> 00:52:40,000 Speaker 1: it really looks like a person when you get all 878 00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:45,760 Speaker 1: the fur off. Is that true? I mean, it looks 879 00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:47,799 Speaker 1: more like a person than a skin deer. Looks like. 880 00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:53,040 Speaker 1: I mean, so I can see somebody saying, yeah, okay, well, 881 00:52:53,080 --> 00:52:55,040 Speaker 1: I mean that's just something you have to get over then, 882 00:52:55,719 --> 00:52:59,480 Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, I guess i'd like in that too. 883 00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:02,320 Speaker 1: The first few times I killed a deer, I had, 884 00:53:02,560 --> 00:53:05,920 Speaker 1: but I struggled with gutting it and doing all that. 885 00:53:06,040 --> 00:53:08,960 Speaker 1: And now it's just like, you know, last year was 886 00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:10,959 Speaker 1: the first year because because at my inn lost place, 887 00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:12,520 Speaker 1: it was like, up, bring the four wheeler. We got 888 00:53:12,560 --> 00:53:14,120 Speaker 1: one down, and we take it back up to the house, 889 00:53:14,160 --> 00:53:16,600 Speaker 1: string it up, do all the stuff. Last year was 890 00:53:16,640 --> 00:53:20,239 Speaker 1: the first year that I was like, I'm gonna do 891 00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:23,800 Speaker 1: this right there. I killed it right there. I'm gonna 892 00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:26,719 Speaker 1: just do it right here in the field. It was 893 00:53:26,840 --> 00:53:29,520 Speaker 1: way easier to do it that way than stringing it 894 00:53:29,640 --> 00:53:32,680 Speaker 1: up and having it, you know, guts flopping out of 895 00:53:32,680 --> 00:53:35,320 Speaker 1: it and blood running down on my shoes and everything. 896 00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:37,799 Speaker 1: I mean, yes, okay, you get into it a little 897 00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:41,600 Speaker 1: bit more in your elbows and stuff, but uh, you 898 00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:47,719 Speaker 1: get over it. And if you being desensitized to a 899 00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:51,319 Speaker 1: really natural and normal process, taking it, taking all the 900 00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:54,640 Speaker 1: way from from the field to your table helps a 901 00:53:54,680 --> 00:53:57,839 Speaker 1: lot with that. Definitely. I just realized what I should 902 00:53:57,880 --> 00:54:00,759 Speaker 1: have said when you said, does a bear look like 903 00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:03,560 Speaker 1: a human when it's skinned? What I should have said, 904 00:54:03,600 --> 00:54:08,320 Speaker 1: I never skinned the human. Okay, that's what I should 905 00:54:08,320 --> 00:54:10,640 Speaker 1: have said. I get to stay for a little while longer. 906 00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:16,560 Speaker 1: Oh man, we're just pounding away here, um on time. No, 907 00:54:17,040 --> 00:54:20,719 Speaker 1: so well, let's stay on this just a minute. Like 908 00:54:21,120 --> 00:54:25,080 Speaker 1: a lot of people don't understand that a bear's diet. 909 00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:27,520 Speaker 1: A lot of people would say, well, eating a bear's 910 00:54:27,560 --> 00:54:30,040 Speaker 1: like eating a coyote. You know. They would think, like, 911 00:54:30,520 --> 00:54:33,920 Speaker 1: you know, the kind of the old mosaic law of 912 00:54:34,080 --> 00:54:36,680 Speaker 1: like don't eat anything without a what is it a 913 00:54:36,680 --> 00:54:43,600 Speaker 1: cloven hoof? I mean like cow, sheep, deer? Yeah, yeah, yeah, 914 00:54:43,640 --> 00:54:46,520 Speaker 1: I mean like and so you know, certainly something that 915 00:54:46,560 --> 00:54:50,160 Speaker 1: doesn't have hoofs you wouldn't eat, you know, but a 916 00:54:50,160 --> 00:54:54,759 Speaker 1: bear pretty much has a diet not much different than 917 00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:59,399 Speaker 1: a wild turkey when you actually realize it's a lot more. Well, 918 00:54:59,560 --> 00:55:02,560 Speaker 1: this is this is that analogy only works in this 919 00:55:02,760 --> 00:55:08,600 Speaker 1: scenario of the bears diet is is plant matter is 920 00:55:08,920 --> 00:55:16,600 Speaker 1: protein from animal protein of that like cent of that 921 00:55:16,760 --> 00:55:21,160 Speaker 1: typically for Arkansas bears anyway, is insects. No, kid, Yeah, 922 00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:24,759 Speaker 1: I mean they're they're grubbing fools cants. I mean they 923 00:55:25,320 --> 00:55:28,640 Speaker 1: roll logs and need ants. I mean that's basic essentially, 924 00:55:29,440 --> 00:55:32,239 Speaker 1: like what turkey eats. I mean, but will they catch 925 00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:35,479 Speaker 1: a fawn if they see one? Heck yeah, but that's 926 00:55:35,520 --> 00:55:38,480 Speaker 1: only going to be for a few weeks. And now 927 00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:41,360 Speaker 1: you get into you get into bears that are influenced 928 00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:43,400 Speaker 1: by salmon streams and stuff, and you're in a totally 929 00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:46,439 Speaker 1: different category. There's gonna be periods of time that they're 930 00:55:46,440 --> 00:55:49,160 Speaker 1: gonna be eating a lot of fish based proteins, and 931 00:55:49,239 --> 00:55:52,200 Speaker 1: you don't want to eat those bears. Right Well, there, 932 00:55:53,120 --> 00:55:55,799 Speaker 1: I just can't say that I have ever eaten a 933 00:55:55,840 --> 00:55:59,560 Speaker 1: black bear that was like just pounding salmon. I've heard 934 00:55:59,560 --> 00:56:02,080 Speaker 1: people say it's not bad. I've heard people say it's terrible. 935 00:56:02,520 --> 00:56:04,839 Speaker 1: It's just all over the board. Well, end of the day, 936 00:56:04,880 --> 00:56:06,920 Speaker 1: you're not gonna kill it and not try to do 937 00:56:07,000 --> 00:56:09,719 Speaker 1: something productive with it. You know, you're gonna try it 938 00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:12,640 Speaker 1: one way or the other. It may not be you know, 939 00:56:13,480 --> 00:56:15,520 Speaker 1: just like you go to the store and buy beef. 940 00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:18,520 Speaker 1: I mean, sometimes you get a steak that's really good 941 00:56:18,520 --> 00:56:22,040 Speaker 1: and sometimes it's not really good. So I guess you 942 00:56:22,120 --> 00:56:24,480 Speaker 1: just kind of have to take what you get. But 943 00:56:24,560 --> 00:56:27,719 Speaker 1: it's good. So so what you're you're working on just 944 00:56:28,080 --> 00:56:30,520 Speaker 1: it's it's good. I mean, like I could feed you 945 00:56:31,080 --> 00:56:34,000 Speaker 1: bear in my house and you would think it was beef. 946 00:56:34,040 --> 00:56:36,080 Speaker 1: I mean, I just really believe that. Like if you 947 00:56:36,160 --> 00:56:38,200 Speaker 1: had no idea who I was, and you were just 948 00:56:38,239 --> 00:56:40,520 Speaker 1: sent to my house to eat dinner and you walked 949 00:56:40,520 --> 00:56:42,200 Speaker 1: to my house, I could feed you something and you'd 950 00:56:42,200 --> 00:56:44,120 Speaker 1: just be like, that's good. It's good meat. I mean, 951 00:56:44,200 --> 00:56:47,200 Speaker 1: it's good, had an interesting rub on it, little sweetness 952 00:56:47,239 --> 00:56:51,879 Speaker 1: to it. Yeah yeah, maybe so maybe um so cold. 953 00:56:51,960 --> 00:56:56,840 Speaker 1: He's got a product, he's working on it, and it's 954 00:56:56,640 --> 00:56:58,640 Speaker 1: in historically, you know, I think a lot of it. 955 00:56:59,160 --> 00:57:00,719 Speaker 1: I don't know if there's really a place for this, 956 00:57:00,760 --> 00:57:03,239 Speaker 1: but you know, in in today's society, everybody is so 957 00:57:03,840 --> 00:57:10,239 Speaker 1: interested in preserving traditions and traditions of their people. Men, 958 00:57:10,640 --> 00:57:15,359 Speaker 1: our people eight bear on this continent for a long time. 959 00:57:16,120 --> 00:57:19,360 Speaker 1: I mean, and I guess when I say are people, 960 00:57:19,400 --> 00:57:23,560 Speaker 1: I mean people who moved here. Even a lot of 961 00:57:23,640 --> 00:57:26,840 Speaker 1: us have some Native American probably somewhere way back there. 962 00:57:26,880 --> 00:57:29,520 Speaker 1: But but that's what I'm talking about. And I mean, 963 00:57:29,760 --> 00:57:33,440 Speaker 1: you know, the there's there's historical literature here in Arkansas 964 00:57:33,480 --> 00:57:36,480 Speaker 1: that said, if you you know, in the early eighteen hundreds, 965 00:57:36,600 --> 00:57:38,920 Speaker 1: set down at the dinner table in the Ozark Mountains 966 00:57:38,920 --> 00:57:41,760 Speaker 1: of Arkansas and had red meat, it's about an eighty 967 00:57:41,840 --> 00:57:44,120 Speaker 1: percent chance it was black bear, you know. I mean, 968 00:57:44,160 --> 00:57:47,200 Speaker 1: there's just there's a lot of historical usage. And here's 969 00:57:47,200 --> 00:57:52,080 Speaker 1: what happened in Arkansas is that for seventy five years 970 00:57:52,160 --> 00:57:55,880 Speaker 1: we didn't hardly have bears because they were extra pated 971 00:57:56,040 --> 00:57:59,560 Speaker 1: by habitat loss and market hunting, which is very different 972 00:57:59,560 --> 00:58:02,200 Speaker 1: from what we do today. There's a big misunderstanding there 973 00:58:02,240 --> 00:58:04,400 Speaker 1: with just the general public as they think, well, hunters 974 00:58:04,400 --> 00:58:06,160 Speaker 1: are the ones that killed all the wildlife at the 975 00:58:06,160 --> 00:58:09,560 Speaker 1: turn of century. Man, they were they were basically like farmers, 976 00:58:10,280 --> 00:58:12,560 Speaker 1: I mean they were they were going out to reap 977 00:58:12,640 --> 00:58:15,880 Speaker 1: a harvest for to market it. You know. It's that's 978 00:58:15,920 --> 00:58:18,320 Speaker 1: nothing like what we do. You know, we kill one 979 00:58:18,360 --> 00:58:21,680 Speaker 1: barrier year and they're happy. Market hunter might kill you know, 980 00:58:21,760 --> 00:58:24,240 Speaker 1: Daniel Boone kill the hundred and fifty bears in one winter, 981 00:58:24,920 --> 00:58:26,440 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. So it's like very different. 982 00:58:26,480 --> 00:58:30,440 Speaker 1: But so it's it's it's historical usage. Um, it's a 983 00:58:30,480 --> 00:58:33,720 Speaker 1: good meat and uh, you know you do have to 984 00:58:33,720 --> 00:58:36,160 Speaker 1: cook it. Thoroughly. It can't carry trickadilla. That that's just 985 00:58:36,200 --> 00:58:40,280 Speaker 1: a non issue. Trickadilla dies. I believe that just over 986 00:58:40,280 --> 00:58:43,360 Speaker 1: a hundred forty five degrees or something, which is we 987 00:58:43,400 --> 00:58:47,480 Speaker 1: don't cook hardly anything that other than like a rare steak. 988 00:58:48,160 --> 00:58:50,720 Speaker 1: You just want to cook it and they'll be totally fine. 989 00:58:50,960 --> 00:58:53,640 Speaker 1: They say, does it die if you freeze it for 990 00:58:53,680 --> 00:58:56,840 Speaker 1: a certain moment? Heard, there's different strains of it, and 991 00:58:56,960 --> 00:59:00,280 Speaker 1: some strains die and when it's frozen, some strains. So 992 00:59:00,280 --> 00:59:02,680 Speaker 1: it's better just cook it, Just cook it, just cook it, 993 00:59:03,800 --> 00:59:06,640 Speaker 1: and then you have the fat. Yeah, So tell me, 994 00:59:06,880 --> 00:59:08,760 Speaker 1: like what what all do you do with the fat. 995 00:59:09,400 --> 00:59:12,120 Speaker 1: But this is intriguing to me because obviously white tail 996 00:59:12,160 --> 00:59:14,240 Speaker 1: it's like get rid of the fat, you know, And 997 00:59:14,280 --> 00:59:16,520 Speaker 1: I know there's some people that are kind of kind 998 00:59:16,520 --> 00:59:19,000 Speaker 1: of trying to break that stigma now. But tell me 999 00:59:19,040 --> 00:59:22,360 Speaker 1: about bear fat. Well, we've actually I've actually got about 1000 00:59:22,720 --> 00:59:25,360 Speaker 1: thirty pounds of bear fat thawing out in my freezer 1001 00:59:25,480 --> 00:59:28,960 Speaker 1: and my refrigerator as we speak, because we're gonna render 1002 00:59:29,000 --> 00:59:32,320 Speaker 1: some bear fat this week. And uh, I've got three 1003 00:59:32,400 --> 00:59:34,760 Speaker 1: different types of bear fat. I've got some bear fat 1004 00:59:34,800 --> 00:59:39,960 Speaker 1: from Manitoba. Canada, from Montana and from Oklahoma, and all 1005 00:59:40,000 --> 00:59:42,760 Speaker 1: these bears were eating different things in different parts of 1006 00:59:42,760 --> 00:59:45,240 Speaker 1: the country. We're gonna render them down, and we're gonna 1007 00:59:45,280 --> 00:59:47,400 Speaker 1: try a couple of different methods for rendering them. But 1008 00:59:47,640 --> 00:59:51,560 Speaker 1: basically bear fat is uh you know, it's just like 1009 00:59:51,640 --> 00:59:55,360 Speaker 1: pig lard of white lard, and you cook it down 1010 00:59:55,400 --> 00:59:58,240 Speaker 1: and it turns into oil. And there's all kinds of 1011 00:59:58,320 --> 01:00:01,520 Speaker 1: traditional uses and not even I say traditional and just 1012 01:00:01,640 --> 01:00:04,040 Speaker 1: in that that used to be the only thing that 1013 01:00:04,080 --> 01:00:09,320 Speaker 1: people had. But uh kolbe Or ordered a oil burning 1014 01:00:09,440 --> 01:00:13,040 Speaker 1: lamp for the office here that we're gonna we're gonna 1015 01:00:13,160 --> 01:00:17,440 Speaker 1: use uh bar oil in that lamp. It burns a 1016 01:00:17,560 --> 01:00:22,400 Speaker 1: smokeless flame. So we'll have this glass. And that's why 1017 01:00:22,400 --> 01:00:24,400 Speaker 1: people use it for I mean, think about being a 1018 01:00:24,800 --> 01:00:27,800 Speaker 1: pioneer here in the Ozarks in the early eight hundreds. 1019 01:00:27,840 --> 01:00:31,520 Speaker 1: Nobody ever dreamed of electricity. And man, it gets dark 1020 01:00:31,560 --> 01:00:36,080 Speaker 1: at six o'clock in the wintertime, and you know, candles 1021 01:00:36,120 --> 01:00:38,480 Speaker 1: only burned for so long. But you killed the bear 1022 01:00:39,040 --> 01:00:42,960 Speaker 1: last fall that in you rendered, you know, three gallons 1023 01:00:42,960 --> 01:00:45,960 Speaker 1: of bar oil. Man, that stuff burns, I mean, so 1024 01:00:46,000 --> 01:00:48,760 Speaker 1: you can use it for burning oil lamps, burning oil lamps, 1025 01:00:48,800 --> 01:00:53,080 Speaker 1: but you use it for cooking. I mean, um, well 1026 01:00:53,120 --> 01:00:55,880 Speaker 1: that squirrel video we did that was at the BH Deal. 1027 01:00:56,760 --> 01:01:00,600 Speaker 1: We cooked that that squirrel meat and just straight bear fat, 1028 01:01:01,280 --> 01:01:03,640 Speaker 1: and uh it does not have a wild taste. I 1029 01:01:03,640 --> 01:01:05,400 Speaker 1: mean you would just think like bear fat would just 1030 01:01:05,440 --> 01:01:08,600 Speaker 1: be like this, like it's just it's just oil. It 1031 01:01:08,640 --> 01:01:12,560 Speaker 1: didn't even have a flavor. It's just it's just large. Um, 1032 01:01:13,000 --> 01:01:16,040 Speaker 1: So you cook with it. That what bear fat is 1033 01:01:16,080 --> 01:01:20,560 Speaker 1: renowned for is for baking any any any baking product 1034 01:01:20,640 --> 01:01:24,960 Speaker 1: that you would use oil, like for pie crusts primarily. Uh. 1035 01:01:25,120 --> 01:01:28,880 Speaker 1: I was just thinking about that. I made that turkey 1036 01:01:28,920 --> 01:01:31,960 Speaker 1: that I shot this spring. I made turkey schnitzel last night. 1037 01:01:32,000 --> 01:01:36,160 Speaker 1: And then I have a family recipe that goes way back. 1038 01:01:36,200 --> 01:01:39,120 Speaker 1: My family is originally from Germany. There's some recipe that 1039 01:01:39,200 --> 01:01:42,120 Speaker 1: was handed down. We call it miro Shan. It's basically 1040 01:01:42,200 --> 01:01:45,680 Speaker 1: just like an apple pastry. So I made homemade dough 1041 01:01:45,800 --> 01:01:48,040 Speaker 1: and made my ro shan, you know, with just some 1042 01:01:48,440 --> 01:01:49,960 Speaker 1: you know, I had to cut some crist go into 1043 01:01:50,040 --> 01:01:52,240 Speaker 1: it and give you some barroil when we get it 1044 01:01:52,280 --> 01:01:55,120 Speaker 1: rendered down. Oh that's like a parting gift for being 1045 01:01:55,160 --> 01:01:58,520 Speaker 1: on the show. That's that's great. We gotta we gotta 1046 01:01:58,560 --> 01:02:01,360 Speaker 1: render it down first. But for l I'll give you something, 1047 01:02:01,440 --> 01:02:05,400 Speaker 1: even if it's just a as a keepsake. Um. The 1048 01:02:05,440 --> 01:02:09,320 Speaker 1: other it's it's people used it for oil and knobs 1049 01:02:09,320 --> 01:02:13,080 Speaker 1: and guns and stuff, for leather conditioner, I mean pretty 1050 01:02:13,160 --> 01:02:15,720 Speaker 1: much anything. There's only so many things you can do 1051 01:02:15,800 --> 01:02:20,960 Speaker 1: with oil bait, you know, animal fat and and uh, 1052 01:02:21,120 --> 01:02:22,720 Speaker 1: you can anything you can do with anything else, you 1053 01:02:22,760 --> 01:02:25,920 Speaker 1: can do with bear fatum. Except there's one thing you 1054 01:02:25,920 --> 01:02:27,240 Speaker 1: can do with bear fat that you can't do with 1055 01:02:27,240 --> 01:02:30,920 Speaker 1: anything else, and that is forecast of weather. No kidding, 1056 01:02:31,920 --> 01:02:36,040 Speaker 1: I was actually just reading an article. Now there's there's 1057 01:02:36,080 --> 01:02:42,000 Speaker 1: like legitimate There was a guy named George wimsat Okay, Okay, 1058 01:02:42,720 --> 01:02:46,680 Speaker 1: back in New Mexico. He died in like ninety five 1059 01:02:46,840 --> 01:02:51,880 Speaker 1: or something, and he you are agreed about him. Phenomenal 1060 01:02:51,920 --> 01:02:55,720 Speaker 1: guy that was covered on all these different news stations 1061 01:02:56,000 --> 01:03:00,520 Speaker 1: and he spent sixty years. Um. Native there was a 1062 01:03:00,600 --> 01:03:03,920 Speaker 1: Native American like folklore that you could forecast the weather 1063 01:03:04,640 --> 01:03:07,240 Speaker 1: looking at barre oil. They used to put bar oil 1064 01:03:07,400 --> 01:03:11,840 Speaker 1: in deer gall bladder or bladders. They would preserve the 1065 01:03:11,880 --> 01:03:15,000 Speaker 1: oil by putting it in a bladder and when it 1066 01:03:15,120 --> 01:03:18,400 Speaker 1: dried it was clear and you could see through the oil. 1067 01:03:19,120 --> 01:03:21,600 Speaker 1: And so they would store this barrel oil and these 1068 01:03:21,600 --> 01:03:25,320 Speaker 1: bladders and the oil would change and it would bubble 1069 01:03:25,400 --> 01:03:28,120 Speaker 1: and it would change colors, which it does barrel oil 1070 01:03:28,160 --> 01:03:34,920 Speaker 1: does that changes atmospheric pressure and temperature, atmospheric pressure um. 1071 01:03:35,280 --> 01:03:37,760 Speaker 1: And so this guy began to study it and kept 1072 01:03:37,800 --> 01:03:42,320 Speaker 1: detailed records for sixty years and was like predicting weather 1073 01:03:42,400 --> 01:03:46,680 Speaker 1: with like great certainty. Well, we got some folks you 1074 01:03:46,760 --> 01:03:49,960 Speaker 1: probably you know, learn a thing or two from that. Then, yeah, 1075 01:03:50,080 --> 01:03:51,600 Speaker 1: we need to get him out in the woods and 1076 01:03:51,600 --> 01:03:54,560 Speaker 1: and get a bear for some of these meteorologists and 1077 01:03:54,600 --> 01:03:58,960 Speaker 1: then maybe they could correlate. And uh. Actually the story 1078 01:03:58,960 --> 01:04:03,280 Speaker 1: where in his in his hometown that the local meteorologists 1079 01:04:03,280 --> 01:04:06,080 Speaker 1: and him kind of for like a publicity stunt, did 1080 01:04:06,160 --> 01:04:09,800 Speaker 1: a deal where they both forecasted and saw who was right. 1081 01:04:11,120 --> 01:04:13,760 Speaker 1: And then George was right that week, like he won. 1082 01:04:13,880 --> 01:04:16,440 Speaker 1: It was like a contest. I read this today from 1083 01:04:16,480 --> 01:04:19,240 Speaker 1: back back in what was his cat's name? I believe 1084 01:04:19,240 --> 01:04:24,160 Speaker 1: it's George whim sat sad W I M s A T. 1085 01:04:24,320 --> 01:04:27,040 Speaker 1: We can put it in the show notes. There we go. Yeah, 1086 01:04:28,040 --> 01:04:31,440 Speaker 1: so so I've had bear fat on the south facing 1087 01:04:31,440 --> 01:04:36,360 Speaker 1: wind still for many years, Um, and I planned to, uh, 1088 01:04:36,600 --> 01:04:39,600 Speaker 1: we actually talked about it today. We're gonna, we're gonna, 1089 01:04:39,760 --> 01:04:44,800 Speaker 1: we're gonna, we're gonna do some experiments. I've got bear 1090 01:04:44,840 --> 01:04:47,960 Speaker 1: fat right there. Actually, you see that jar right there, 1091 01:04:48,400 --> 01:04:54,720 Speaker 1: that is about six year olds duh, that is about 1092 01:04:55,320 --> 01:04:59,040 Speaker 1: six year old bear fat. So that is not good 1093 01:04:59,280 --> 01:05:01,959 Speaker 1: bear fat. Bear fat will stay good in a window 1094 01:05:01,960 --> 01:05:04,560 Speaker 1: still like that for about two years at room temperature. 1095 01:05:05,560 --> 01:05:08,480 Speaker 1: But that's just been there for years. I've rendered it. 1096 01:05:08,520 --> 01:05:12,880 Speaker 1: But hey, let's talk about one more thing. Um, we've 1097 01:05:12,960 --> 01:05:15,880 Speaker 1: we've we've pretty much run our gamut here, But did 1098 01:05:15,880 --> 01:05:20,200 Speaker 1: you want to talk about hounds? Yeah? Sorry, how to 1099 01:05:20,200 --> 01:05:25,680 Speaker 1: wet my whistle there? Yeah, So obviously that's another as 1100 01:05:25,720 --> 01:05:28,040 Speaker 1: I get all kinds of love here from from a 1101 01:05:28,160 --> 01:05:31,440 Speaker 1: fair dog. Yeah, I'm serious. This dog right here, and 1102 01:05:31,480 --> 01:05:35,360 Speaker 1: he himself is not a bear dog, but his entire 1103 01:05:35,600 --> 01:05:39,360 Speaker 1: genealogy on both sides goes back to bear and mountain 1104 01:05:39,360 --> 01:05:43,520 Speaker 1: lion hounds. That's that's ironic that Jed just like totally 1105 01:05:43,560 --> 01:05:45,920 Speaker 1: cuddled up right to James, is just like leaning on 1106 01:05:46,000 --> 01:05:48,480 Speaker 1: him and swabber and like he's trying to convert me. 1107 01:05:49,200 --> 01:05:53,440 Speaker 1: So so that's the other thing I think that you know, 1108 01:05:53,520 --> 01:05:57,080 Speaker 1: again going back to my to my it's crawled in 1109 01:05:57,200 --> 01:06:00,920 Speaker 1: his lap. Now to my background is okay, you know, 1110 01:06:00,960 --> 01:06:03,800 Speaker 1: if you see dogs running deer, you shoot those dogs, 1111 01:06:04,440 --> 01:06:06,560 Speaker 1: right that, I mean, that's what I was told. Now, 1112 01:06:06,600 --> 01:06:08,520 Speaker 1: we didn't have a big problem with that, but the 1113 01:06:08,640 --> 01:06:12,040 Speaker 1: mindset that it placed in me was Okay, dogs chasing 1114 01:06:12,080 --> 01:06:18,720 Speaker 1: game equals bad. So I understood. Now there's other perspectives 1115 01:06:18,760 --> 01:06:24,280 Speaker 1: on that, but um just I'm briefly why would you 1116 01:06:24,320 --> 01:06:26,880 Speaker 1: need to use dogs for that, Like, what's the what's 1117 01:06:26,920 --> 01:06:29,040 Speaker 1: the benefit of that? Is it just the same kind 1118 01:06:29,080 --> 01:06:33,440 Speaker 1: of thing as it is with bait. But to go 1119 01:06:33,520 --> 01:06:36,560 Speaker 1: back to the very foundational place, it's a management tool. 1120 01:06:37,160 --> 01:06:40,840 Speaker 1: I mean, like we could have in Arkansas, they could 1121 01:06:40,880 --> 01:06:43,760 Speaker 1: have said we're gonna let hound hunters manage the better 1122 01:06:43,840 --> 01:06:46,200 Speaker 1: population and we could have killed as many bears as 1123 01:06:46,240 --> 01:06:49,120 Speaker 1: we wanted. I mean, like, you know, you could have 1124 01:06:49,280 --> 01:06:53,200 Speaker 1: you could have taken out a better the percentage you needed. 1125 01:06:53,400 --> 01:06:56,440 Speaker 1: Let me say that. Um so, the places that have 1126 01:06:56,840 --> 01:07:00,120 Speaker 1: hound hunts in North in in the States, and in 1127 01:07:00,280 --> 01:07:03,520 Speaker 1: Canada they hunt hounds, and lots of the Canadian provinces 1128 01:07:04,120 --> 01:07:06,880 Speaker 1: is it is a management tool just like baiting. So 1129 01:07:06,920 --> 01:07:10,200 Speaker 1: I just I'll say that to say it's a scientific 1130 01:07:10,240 --> 01:07:14,560 Speaker 1: based management tool to help game agencies gain their objectives 1131 01:07:14,600 --> 01:07:18,320 Speaker 1: for harvesting bears. Number one. Number two, what a lot 1132 01:07:18,360 --> 01:07:21,760 Speaker 1: of people would say is that, you know, well, isn't 1133 01:07:21,760 --> 01:07:23,560 Speaker 1: this kind of you know, I've heard people say it's 1134 01:07:23,600 --> 01:07:27,080 Speaker 1: barbaric or it's it's old so old fashioned, like aren't 1135 01:07:27,080 --> 01:07:33,640 Speaker 1: we beyond using dogs to like harass game? I mean, 1136 01:07:34,160 --> 01:07:36,920 Speaker 1: all the worst of what you could ever imagine have 1137 01:07:36,960 --> 01:07:43,600 Speaker 1: been said about this, and the this goes back some 1138 01:07:43,800 --> 01:07:49,960 Speaker 1: to tradition, but also too, it's those are the worst 1139 01:07:49,960 --> 01:07:53,360 Speaker 1: possible stories they've been We've been running hounds, especially in 1140 01:07:53,400 --> 01:07:58,680 Speaker 1: the Eastern United States since Europeans got here and then 1141 01:07:58,920 --> 01:08:02,000 Speaker 1: Native Americans started running hounds. To one of my favorite 1142 01:08:02,000 --> 01:08:04,840 Speaker 1: books that we're gonna talk about another podcast right here 1143 01:08:04,840 --> 01:08:08,040 Speaker 1: in the Ozarks, there's a whole story about Native Americans 1144 01:08:08,040 --> 01:08:10,160 Speaker 1: having bear hounds and they ran bears out here at 1145 01:08:10,160 --> 01:08:13,600 Speaker 1: White Rock. Yeah. So I mean it's like it's not 1146 01:08:13,680 --> 01:08:18,000 Speaker 1: just the white Europeans that were the ones running hounds, 1147 01:08:18,040 --> 01:08:22,719 Speaker 1: but I mean they say George Washington brought over hounds 1148 01:08:22,840 --> 01:08:26,799 Speaker 1: from Europe. Um, So it's an effective tool to manage 1149 01:08:26,800 --> 01:08:28,240 Speaker 1: gaming and catch a lot of game. But I go 1150 01:08:28,320 --> 01:08:33,920 Speaker 1: back to that effectiveness for selecting certain species. How honey 1151 01:08:34,000 --> 01:08:37,280 Speaker 1: is the only catch and release type of hunting. That's 1152 01:08:37,280 --> 01:08:40,160 Speaker 1: a fair point. That's that's what that's That's what we 1153 01:08:40,240 --> 01:08:43,360 Speaker 1: say is that you tree an animal and then you decide. 1154 01:08:43,439 --> 01:08:45,800 Speaker 1: You got all the time in the world to decide 1155 01:08:45,920 --> 01:08:48,360 Speaker 1: if that's an animal that you want to take, and 1156 01:08:48,400 --> 01:08:51,240 Speaker 1: so if you decide if it's a mature male or 1157 01:08:52,520 --> 01:08:54,680 Speaker 1: or whatever exactly. Let me go ahead and say this 1158 01:08:54,720 --> 01:08:56,920 Speaker 1: while I'm thinking about it there, there's a lot of 1159 01:08:56,960 --> 01:08:59,559 Speaker 1: a lot of people would think that, uh, spotting stock 1160 01:08:59,600 --> 01:09:03,080 Speaker 1: would be like the purest, most most ethical form of hunting, 1161 01:09:03,360 --> 01:09:05,760 Speaker 1: which I love spotting star hunting like out West. We 1162 01:09:05,880 --> 01:09:10,920 Speaker 1: just got back from Montana, probably the least selective way 1163 01:09:11,280 --> 01:09:13,439 Speaker 1: because you see it from so far away, you have 1164 01:09:14,360 --> 01:09:16,120 Speaker 1: very difficult to tell what it is, and you might 1165 01:09:16,200 --> 01:09:18,800 Speaker 1: hunt for a week and see one animal. I mean, 1166 01:09:19,800 --> 01:09:22,040 Speaker 1: Clay nucom is a perfect case in point. I was 1167 01:09:22,080 --> 01:09:24,840 Speaker 1: going to shoot that blonde bear. You saw the video. 1168 01:09:24,920 --> 01:09:28,160 Speaker 1: Did you see some of the Montana video? May? I 1169 01:09:28,160 --> 01:09:29,840 Speaker 1: can't remember if you I thought you can't remember? If 1170 01:09:29,880 --> 01:09:32,640 Speaker 1: I saw that maybe you just saw the teaser. I 1171 01:09:32,640 --> 01:09:34,880 Speaker 1: think I saw the teaser. There was a blonde bear 1172 01:09:34,880 --> 01:09:36,040 Speaker 1: in the tea. I didn't mean to put you on 1173 01:09:36,040 --> 01:09:41,519 Speaker 1: the spot. You better start watching our stuff. I saw 1174 01:09:41,600 --> 01:09:44,920 Speaker 1: that a couple of times. He just said he saw 1175 01:09:44,960 --> 01:09:47,720 Speaker 1: something about money. That video just came out. Don't feel bad. Now. 1176 01:09:48,360 --> 01:09:52,400 Speaker 1: There was a blonde bear that I didn't really have 1177 01:09:52,600 --> 01:09:56,040 Speaker 1: time to judge, and I was going to shoot the bear, 1178 01:09:56,120 --> 01:10:02,479 Speaker 1: and and uh boy, after I shot, I was like, man, 1179 01:10:02,560 --> 01:10:06,000 Speaker 1: that was a small sow. You were thankful that you 1180 01:10:06,080 --> 01:10:08,000 Speaker 1: missed at that I was, I mean, and now if 1181 01:10:08,040 --> 01:10:09,840 Speaker 1: I had killed it, I would have just been like, 1182 01:10:11,040 --> 01:10:13,000 Speaker 1: you know, I would have been happy. I mean, like, 1183 01:10:13,040 --> 01:10:15,200 Speaker 1: this is spotting stock hunting. You know, you just take 1184 01:10:15,240 --> 01:10:18,720 Speaker 1: what you can get. And that's true. Um, but so 1185 01:10:19,040 --> 01:10:22,679 Speaker 1: like that narrative that spotting stock hunting is the that's 1186 01:10:22,680 --> 01:10:25,360 Speaker 1: the pure way, that's the ethical way, that's the sportsman's way. 1187 01:10:26,160 --> 01:10:28,799 Speaker 1: And I'm not saying you can't be selective in spotstock hunting. 1188 01:10:28,840 --> 01:10:31,439 Speaker 1: I mean, somebody could easily combat that and say, well 1189 01:10:31,479 --> 01:10:34,880 Speaker 1: you got but it's more than point. You see my point. 1190 01:10:34,920 --> 01:10:37,840 Speaker 1: You you go on a hound hunt, you could look 1191 01:10:37,880 --> 01:10:41,519 Speaker 1: at I don't know three or four bears in a week. 1192 01:10:42,080 --> 01:10:43,880 Speaker 1: I mean, they're hard to treat. That's the other thing. 1193 01:10:43,920 --> 01:10:48,120 Speaker 1: It's extremely difficult. Takes an extremely dedicated person and houndsman 1194 01:10:48,479 --> 01:10:52,639 Speaker 1: to be good. Um one and twenty bare hounds ends 1195 01:10:52,720 --> 01:10:56,480 Speaker 1: up being a real barehound. I mean, like these dogs 1196 01:10:56,479 --> 01:10:58,240 Speaker 1: like you know, I mean, like there's a these guys 1197 01:10:58,280 --> 01:11:03,160 Speaker 1: to vote their lifetimes to breeding these dogs. And uh, 1198 01:11:03,200 --> 01:11:06,920 Speaker 1: and it's very difficult to to tree animals and uh 1199 01:11:08,200 --> 01:11:10,599 Speaker 1: but you see my you see, my point is that 1200 01:11:10,680 --> 01:11:14,479 Speaker 1: it's another way to be selective. And uh. And here's 1201 01:11:14,560 --> 01:11:16,439 Speaker 1: here's the thing, and I'll put this on the table, 1202 01:11:16,680 --> 01:11:20,320 Speaker 1: is that people say that it's inhumane, like because absolutely 1203 01:11:20,360 --> 01:11:23,400 Speaker 1: there are bears that get caught on the ground. I 1204 01:11:23,400 --> 01:11:25,519 Speaker 1: mean we got to say that there there are bay 1205 01:11:25,640 --> 01:11:28,160 Speaker 1: ups on the ground. When a dog is looking at 1206 01:11:28,200 --> 01:11:29,840 Speaker 1: the face of a bear, and I mean it's like, 1207 01:11:30,360 --> 01:11:34,960 Speaker 1: you know, they're being bade up from a I I 1208 01:11:35,000 --> 01:11:40,479 Speaker 1: think that in general, most people don't understand the ferociousness 1209 01:11:40,520 --> 01:11:44,040 Speaker 1: of the natural world. That bear has been in so 1210 01:11:44,120 --> 01:11:48,400 Speaker 1: many bear fights. That bear, I mean, for him to 1211 01:11:49,200 --> 01:11:51,799 Speaker 1: swat at those dogs for and I'm just being honest, 1212 01:11:51,880 --> 01:11:54,880 Speaker 1: this is just the truth. For that bear to swat 1213 01:11:54,920 --> 01:11:58,599 Speaker 1: at those dogs and be running around for however long 1214 01:11:59,360 --> 01:12:03,400 Speaker 1: is a small is an easy thing for him to overcome. 1215 01:12:04,080 --> 01:12:10,519 Speaker 1: I mean it's like he's his life has spent, he's 1216 01:12:10,520 --> 01:12:15,280 Speaker 1: got claws and teeth. And and here's another thing. We 1217 01:12:15,360 --> 01:12:19,840 Speaker 1: have hyper emotionalized death so much as a culture. Yeah, 1218 01:12:20,160 --> 01:12:24,440 Speaker 1: if if a bear or a squirrel or a turkey 1219 01:12:24,680 --> 01:12:28,439 Speaker 1: is not killed by God, fear and ethical hunter, then 1220 01:12:28,479 --> 01:12:32,240 Speaker 1: he will die of very terrible death guaranteed. Yeah. I mean, 1221 01:12:32,280 --> 01:12:34,120 Speaker 1: you see a bear walk through my yard out here, 1222 01:12:34,160 --> 01:12:36,160 Speaker 1: and you go, what a beautiful animal. How would you 1223 01:12:36,160 --> 01:12:40,000 Speaker 1: ever want how would you ever want to kill that thing? Okay, well, 1224 01:12:40,000 --> 01:12:43,400 Speaker 1: what's the counterfactual? I don't send my kids out that 1225 01:12:43,439 --> 01:12:45,280 Speaker 1: have a tag to go kill it. And let's say 1226 01:12:45,280 --> 01:12:47,800 Speaker 1: it's in season they kill that bear. Well, let's say 1227 01:12:47,800 --> 01:12:49,720 Speaker 1: they don't kill it. I say, boys, don't do. It's 1228 01:12:49,720 --> 01:12:52,920 Speaker 1: a beautiful animal. Let's let it live. What are the 1229 01:12:52,920 --> 01:12:57,280 Speaker 1: possibilities for that animal's death? If we're talking about being humane, like, 1230 01:12:57,320 --> 01:12:59,240 Speaker 1: if the whole point of a human is just to 1231 01:12:59,280 --> 01:13:03,760 Speaker 1: be this pristine, spiritual creature that causes nothing harm and 1232 01:13:03,840 --> 01:13:09,400 Speaker 1: just dictates humanenus on every single creature, really, tell me 1233 01:13:09,479 --> 01:13:12,680 Speaker 1: what could happen that bear hit by car, hit by 1234 01:13:12,680 --> 01:13:15,960 Speaker 1: a car, mauld by another bear, mal mald aer killed 1235 01:13:15,960 --> 01:13:21,799 Speaker 1: by another bear, dive dive disease, dive old age change, 1236 01:13:22,080 --> 01:13:27,920 Speaker 1: dive starvation. Uh. I mean like, contrast that with being 1237 01:13:27,920 --> 01:13:31,679 Speaker 1: shot with an arrow and living for eight seconds. Contrast 1238 01:13:31,800 --> 01:13:34,439 Speaker 1: that with being chased by dogs for an hour and 1239 01:13:34,439 --> 01:13:37,760 Speaker 1: a half, being treated, setting in a tree and then 1240 01:13:37,800 --> 01:13:42,479 Speaker 1: getting killed. Your your your your, the resource of the 1241 01:13:42,520 --> 01:13:45,600 Speaker 1: animal to meet hide for fat being utilized in a 1242 01:13:45,680 --> 01:13:49,760 Speaker 1: productive way, built towards the scientific goal that's gonna help 1243 01:13:49,800 --> 01:13:53,120 Speaker 1: all the other animals thrive because of that bears absence 1244 01:13:53,640 --> 01:13:57,120 Speaker 1: with me. I mean so it's like people of hyper 1245 01:13:57,160 --> 01:14:00,000 Speaker 1: emotionalized death. That pretty animal that you see out there, 1246 01:14:00,120 --> 01:14:05,000 Speaker 1: and Yellowstone is gonna die. Yeah, someday, someday. I mean 1247 01:14:05,560 --> 01:14:10,000 Speaker 1: so that and and you know, going back to the 1248 01:14:10,040 --> 01:14:15,519 Speaker 1: dog thing, Um, it's it's animal conflict is very natural 1249 01:14:16,520 --> 01:14:19,320 Speaker 1: and so and in most cases bears run up trees 1250 01:14:19,479 --> 01:14:22,360 Speaker 1: and the bears and dogs never fight, and uh, and 1251 01:14:22,400 --> 01:14:26,200 Speaker 1: it's it's a highly selective tool. And what most people 1252 01:14:26,240 --> 01:14:28,679 Speaker 1: don't understand if they say it's not fair, Chase, I 1253 01:14:28,720 --> 01:14:32,000 Speaker 1: promise you anybody that says that bear anyone hounds is 1254 01:14:32,040 --> 01:14:35,800 Speaker 1: not fair. Chase has never done it. I mean maybe 1255 01:14:35,960 --> 01:14:38,360 Speaker 1: there's a lot of Chase involved in it, right. Yes, 1256 01:14:42,479 --> 01:14:44,599 Speaker 1: some of the toughest people that I know are hound hunters, 1257 01:14:44,640 --> 01:14:47,639 Speaker 1: just in terms of like woodsman. It's like woodsman tough, 1258 01:14:48,280 --> 01:14:51,200 Speaker 1: and you would you would think that, I mean people 1259 01:14:51,479 --> 01:14:53,840 Speaker 1: people think that hunting over bait and hounds is just 1260 01:14:53,880 --> 01:14:57,719 Speaker 1: like the lazy fat man sport, you know. And uh, 1261 01:14:57,800 --> 01:15:00,960 Speaker 1: but some of the toughest guys in most and they're 1262 01:15:00,960 --> 01:15:05,519 Speaker 1: not mountain fit like Instagram boys there there, but they're 1263 01:15:05,560 --> 01:15:10,120 Speaker 1: they're tough, they're in their hunters and there they holy care. 1264 01:15:10,200 --> 01:15:11,880 Speaker 1: I could tell you some stories of being in West 1265 01:15:12,000 --> 01:15:14,879 Speaker 1: Virginia and the first time I hunted in West Virginia, 1266 01:15:15,040 --> 01:15:18,920 Speaker 1: the dogs tree to bear way off this mountain and 1267 01:15:18,960 --> 01:15:20,840 Speaker 1: I was with these guys that were older than me, 1268 01:15:20,960 --> 01:15:24,360 Speaker 1: one of I mean like way older than me. Um, 1269 01:15:24,439 --> 01:15:28,160 Speaker 1: they weren't didn't exactly look like CrossFit athletes, and they 1270 01:15:28,160 --> 01:15:30,880 Speaker 1: were like, all right, let's go to that bear. And 1271 01:15:30,920 --> 01:15:33,160 Speaker 1: I looked at him and I said, you mean, we're 1272 01:15:33,200 --> 01:15:36,800 Speaker 1: just like going straight to those dogs, and they looked 1273 01:15:36,800 --> 01:15:40,320 Speaker 1: at me like I was crazy, Like yeah, that was 1274 01:15:40,320 --> 01:15:42,240 Speaker 1: a pretty much the only way to get there, And 1275 01:15:42,280 --> 01:15:44,400 Speaker 1: I was like, all right, and I mean we went 1276 01:15:44,439 --> 01:15:47,720 Speaker 1: through a holla that. I mean just it blew my 1277 01:15:47,920 --> 01:15:50,439 Speaker 1: for real. I was like wow. I mean because the 1278 01:15:50,520 --> 01:15:53,120 Speaker 1: hunting we do here in Arkansas, I mean that I 1279 01:15:53,200 --> 01:15:55,160 Speaker 1: even do in the back country, I wouldn't have done 1280 01:15:55,200 --> 01:15:58,360 Speaker 1: anything like that. I mean, it was just like crazy, 1281 01:15:58,439 --> 01:16:00,360 Speaker 1: They just they just do it took him a long time, 1282 01:16:01,000 --> 01:16:05,400 Speaker 1: they were fast. But so there's a little bit of that. 1283 01:16:06,800 --> 01:16:09,439 Speaker 1: You have any other I mean, like honest questions about 1284 01:16:09,479 --> 01:16:12,639 Speaker 1: that or thoughts on that. No, I mean, I think 1285 01:16:13,080 --> 01:16:17,080 Speaker 1: I think from the standpoint of understanding the various methods 1286 01:16:17,080 --> 01:16:21,120 Speaker 1: of take as a as a as a method of 1287 01:16:21,439 --> 01:16:25,519 Speaker 1: management or means of management, and how do we deal 1288 01:16:25,560 --> 01:16:31,680 Speaker 1: with the population in a way that balances many competing demands, 1289 01:16:32,880 --> 01:16:36,720 Speaker 1: I think that's very helpful. And I think even from 1290 01:16:36,760 --> 01:16:39,720 Speaker 1: a standpoint you know, we have our different camps within 1291 01:16:39,760 --> 01:16:43,040 Speaker 1: the hunting community, but then obviously we have there's many 1292 01:16:43,080 --> 01:16:45,919 Speaker 1: more people in the camp that's outside the hunting community, 1293 01:16:46,840 --> 01:16:50,599 Speaker 1: and and I feel like one of the best ways 1294 01:16:50,640 --> 01:16:55,799 Speaker 1: that we as hunters can um move the conversation forward 1295 01:16:55,840 --> 01:16:58,360 Speaker 1: is to know these things. Even if you don't you know, 1296 01:16:58,400 --> 01:17:01,520 Speaker 1: if I never hunt a beer to hunt over hounds, 1297 01:17:01,640 --> 01:17:06,960 Speaker 1: you know, yeah, But I need to understand why that is. 1298 01:17:07,080 --> 01:17:09,639 Speaker 1: Why why do other people do it that way and 1299 01:17:09,720 --> 01:17:14,519 Speaker 1: not take shots at other people because they choose to 1300 01:17:14,560 --> 01:17:18,000 Speaker 1: do something that way, assuming that the reason that they 1301 01:17:18,080 --> 01:17:21,600 Speaker 1: do that is because there's a there's a benefit to 1302 01:17:21,680 --> 01:17:25,040 Speaker 1: it to the population of the animal. Like like we, 1303 01:17:25,240 --> 01:17:26,880 Speaker 1: like you said, we don't just get out there and 1304 01:17:26,960 --> 01:17:29,719 Speaker 1: run them with hounds so we can you know, laugh 1305 01:17:29,840 --> 01:17:35,800 Speaker 1: and and have fun. We we do it to be selective, right, 1306 01:17:36,400 --> 01:17:40,840 Speaker 1: So I think understanding those things, I think unfortunately and 1307 01:17:41,040 --> 01:17:43,679 Speaker 1: a lot of hunters don't don't want to hear this message. 1308 01:17:43,720 --> 01:17:47,320 Speaker 1: But we we have to do better. We have to 1309 01:17:47,479 --> 01:17:50,200 Speaker 1: understand more about what it is we're trying to do. 1310 01:17:51,000 --> 01:17:53,960 Speaker 1: We have to be able to be advocates for what 1311 01:17:54,000 --> 01:17:57,200 Speaker 1: we want to do, because our ability to do it 1312 01:17:57,240 --> 01:18:02,360 Speaker 1: depends on the majority of people who don't and they'll 1313 01:18:02,400 --> 01:18:04,920 Speaker 1: take it away from us. You've said that, and and 1314 01:18:04,920 --> 01:18:06,760 Speaker 1: and you just have to look in the in the 1315 01:18:06,800 --> 01:18:10,200 Speaker 1: parts of the country where it is happening and whatever 1316 01:18:10,520 --> 01:18:15,240 Speaker 1: whatever the small ways that it happens. People who don't 1317 01:18:15,320 --> 01:18:20,559 Speaker 1: understand it, you know, they're they're inconvenienced by X, Y 1318 01:18:20,680 --> 01:18:24,559 Speaker 1: or Z you know, or or they don't. They don't 1319 01:18:24,600 --> 01:18:28,679 Speaker 1: agree with you know, they think it's lazy hunting over bait. 1320 01:18:28,800 --> 01:18:34,200 Speaker 1: Whatever it is, it's our job to come together as 1321 01:18:34,240 --> 01:18:41,880 Speaker 1: sportsmen and sportswomen and speak facts, to remove that emotional 1322 01:18:41,920 --> 01:18:49,040 Speaker 1: component from it um and and just try to first 1323 01:18:49,080 --> 01:18:52,920 Speaker 1: do no harm, you know, number one thing. First do 1324 01:18:53,080 --> 01:18:55,400 Speaker 1: no harm. Let's don't ruin it for the rest of us. 1325 01:18:55,439 --> 01:18:58,000 Speaker 1: But then if you can advocate and even just move 1326 01:18:58,080 --> 01:19:01,519 Speaker 1: the needle a little bit on somebody who's neutral, that's 1327 01:19:01,520 --> 01:19:04,120 Speaker 1: a right for us. I think a lot of the 1328 01:19:04,200 --> 01:19:06,639 Speaker 1: hunting community would like to say, hey, let's just give 1329 01:19:06,720 --> 01:19:11,280 Speaker 1: him hounds and bait. Yeah, just give it away and 1330 01:19:11,320 --> 01:19:12,880 Speaker 1: then we'll still get to hunt, because it's kind of 1331 01:19:12,920 --> 01:19:17,679 Speaker 1: like that's like the redheaded stepchild of hunting in some ways, 1332 01:19:18,840 --> 01:19:22,040 Speaker 1: at least that's my perception in some ways is that 1333 01:19:22,320 --> 01:19:26,400 Speaker 1: Colby smirking a band retract the redhead to step child, 1334 01:19:29,040 --> 01:19:32,639 Speaker 1: and so people might just be like, or that's probably 1335 01:19:32,640 --> 01:19:35,720 Speaker 1: why people that don't hunt over bater they don't want 1336 01:19:35,760 --> 01:19:37,960 Speaker 1: it because they don't want to fight that battle. Right 1337 01:19:38,160 --> 01:19:40,280 Speaker 1: well here, and here's the thing, all right, we've got 1338 01:19:40,280 --> 01:19:43,320 Speaker 1: to be quicker sweaking in. But if they don't fight 1339 01:19:43,400 --> 01:19:49,320 Speaker 1: that battle with us, we're gonna lose. And then the 1340 01:19:49,479 --> 01:19:51,639 Speaker 1: next thing they will get will be something that you're 1341 01:19:51,680 --> 01:19:54,439 Speaker 1: interested in. And like, you know, that's kind of like 1342 01:19:54,479 --> 01:19:56,600 Speaker 1: a threat, you know, and I don't want it to 1343 01:19:56,600 --> 01:20:00,280 Speaker 1: come across as like a threat. Uh. But the truth 1344 01:20:00,400 --> 01:20:03,679 Speaker 1: is that in nineteen we have given the anti hunting 1345 01:20:03,680 --> 01:20:07,400 Speaker 1: community as much as we can give them and maintain 1346 01:20:07,520 --> 01:20:12,719 Speaker 1: this beautiful way of life that is creating great stuff 1347 01:20:12,760 --> 01:20:16,080 Speaker 1: for wildlife and habitat all across this continent unlike man 1348 01:20:16,160 --> 01:20:19,440 Speaker 1: has ever seen in modern times for amount of civilization 1349 01:20:19,520 --> 01:20:22,080 Speaker 1: we have for you know. So it's like if we 1350 01:20:22,080 --> 01:20:24,160 Speaker 1: want to maintain our way of life, we don't have 1351 01:20:24,200 --> 01:20:27,960 Speaker 1: anything left to give them. And so any legal means 1352 01:20:28,000 --> 01:20:32,480 Speaker 1: of hunting in nineteen ought to be supported by every 1353 01:20:32,760 --> 01:20:35,880 Speaker 1: person on this continent that owns a hunting license if 1354 01:20:35,920 --> 01:20:38,839 Speaker 1: they want to keep even what they have for future 1355 01:20:38,840 --> 01:20:42,160 Speaker 1: generations to come. So that that's that's part of our messages, 1356 01:20:42,280 --> 01:20:45,439 Speaker 1: like hey, don't fight against us, go ahead and go 1357 01:20:45,479 --> 01:20:47,679 Speaker 1: ahead and join with us, even if you're never gonna 1358 01:20:47,760 --> 01:20:49,880 Speaker 1: hunt over house, hunt with hounds, or hunt with bait. 1359 01:20:50,240 --> 01:20:53,560 Speaker 1: It's like at least understand it, you know, just understand 1360 01:20:53,600 --> 01:20:56,680 Speaker 1: it and and know that that is connected to what 1361 01:20:56,760 --> 01:21:01,479 Speaker 1: you do and uh that So that's my appeal to 1362 01:21:01,800 --> 01:21:05,280 Speaker 1: two people is that, uh, we've got to you know, 1363 01:21:05,479 --> 01:21:07,760 Speaker 1: we we we really do have to stand together. And 1364 01:21:07,800 --> 01:21:11,840 Speaker 1: I would hope that giving people, uh you know, kind 1365 01:21:11,840 --> 01:21:14,920 Speaker 1: of scripting the narrative for why we do these things 1366 01:21:14,960 --> 01:21:18,320 Speaker 1: makes sense. You know. Yeah, that's that's what That's what 1367 01:21:18,360 --> 01:21:20,400 Speaker 1: my goal was. I was hoping to to provide some 1368 01:21:20,479 --> 01:21:24,240 Speaker 1: dialogue for people like me who maybe I don't want 1369 01:21:24,240 --> 01:21:27,120 Speaker 1: to be, uh, don't want to be the reason something 1370 01:21:27,120 --> 01:21:28,920 Speaker 1: gets taken away because we didn't understand it and we 1371 01:21:28,920 --> 01:21:32,639 Speaker 1: didn't fight for it. Yeah. Well, I think we're sit 1372 01:21:32,680 --> 01:21:35,280 Speaker 1: in a really unique position as bear hunters, and in 1373 01:21:35,360 --> 01:21:37,800 Speaker 1: the modern times. I really do, like, I mean, I 1374 01:21:38,000 --> 01:21:40,959 Speaker 1: feel like it's like a call. I believe that bears 1375 01:21:41,240 --> 01:21:45,559 Speaker 1: are going to be the gateway to the hunting community, 1376 01:21:45,640 --> 01:21:48,759 Speaker 1: and so if we guard that gate, they're never gonna 1377 01:21:48,800 --> 01:21:52,000 Speaker 1: get anything else. It's a good it's a good way 1378 01:21:52,040 --> 01:21:55,400 Speaker 1: to look at it, like guard the gate, because we 1379 01:21:55,479 --> 01:21:58,639 Speaker 1: are at we're at the we are the I mean, 1380 01:21:58,680 --> 01:22:01,439 Speaker 1: we're right there and and and we probably see that 1381 01:22:01,600 --> 01:22:04,599 Speaker 1: here more than just the average bear hunter right there. 1382 01:22:04,640 --> 01:22:07,360 Speaker 1: That's bait and baron Arkansas. He doesn't know that there 1383 01:22:07,479 --> 01:22:10,519 Speaker 1: is a massive war going on and it's true, and 1384 01:22:10,560 --> 01:22:14,080 Speaker 1: we see it here and we um. I mean there's legislation. 1385 01:22:14,120 --> 01:22:16,720 Speaker 1: We've had Sportsman's Alliance on here and I mean there's 1386 01:22:16,800 --> 01:22:21,599 Speaker 1: legislation all over the place about bear hunting. Um. And so, man, 1387 01:22:21,680 --> 01:22:24,160 Speaker 1: we just have to keep we have to keep creating 1388 01:22:24,160 --> 01:22:27,240 Speaker 1: that narrative, educating people, giving people the words to say, 1389 01:22:27,320 --> 01:22:30,280 Speaker 1: giving them, given them the information, the knowledge, but also 1390 01:22:30,400 --> 01:22:33,360 Speaker 1: the heart posture, Like we're not just saying that we 1391 01:22:33,800 --> 01:22:36,559 Speaker 1: have all the answers and that this way is the 1392 01:22:36,560 --> 01:22:39,160 Speaker 1: best way, but there's like a human appeal to it 1393 01:22:39,200 --> 01:22:41,640 Speaker 1: as well. To me, it's just like, man, this is 1394 01:22:41,840 --> 01:22:45,000 Speaker 1: this is a fantastic way of life. You know. It's 1395 01:22:45,080 --> 01:22:47,479 Speaker 1: it's it's a lot easier to throw rocks at somebody 1396 01:22:47,479 --> 01:22:48,800 Speaker 1: who's on the other side of the wall and you 1397 01:22:48,840 --> 01:22:52,120 Speaker 1: can't see him, but you make those personal connections with people. 1398 01:22:52,160 --> 01:22:55,400 Speaker 1: It's like, look, I like to hunt bears, I like 1399 01:22:55,520 --> 01:22:57,680 Speaker 1: to feed my family. I like, you know, we have 1400 01:22:57,720 --> 01:23:00,519 Speaker 1: a lot more in common than we do not in common, 1401 01:23:01,120 --> 01:23:05,120 Speaker 1: and so we we have to be that that friendly 1402 01:23:05,240 --> 01:23:07,800 Speaker 1: face so to speak. I think you guys are doing 1403 01:23:07,800 --> 01:23:11,880 Speaker 1: a great job of it. Well, passionate authenticity, you know, 1404 01:23:12,240 --> 01:23:15,960 Speaker 1: the authenticity means I think that we well, I mean, 1405 01:23:16,000 --> 01:23:18,120 Speaker 1: we've got to have the knowledge, we've gotta have the science, 1406 01:23:18,120 --> 01:23:20,439 Speaker 1: we've gotta have the foundational stuff like we've talked about. 1407 01:23:20,520 --> 01:23:22,040 Speaker 1: But we've also got to be doing it for the 1408 01:23:22,120 --> 01:23:24,680 Speaker 1: right reasons. You know, I'm not trying to poke a 1409 01:23:24,720 --> 01:23:27,680 Speaker 1: stick and some anti hunter's eye or somebody else's eye 1410 01:23:27,680 --> 01:23:30,840 Speaker 1: that don't like bear hunting. I mean, it's just like, man, 1411 01:23:30,880 --> 01:23:33,400 Speaker 1: this is something that I love. Don't take it away 1412 01:23:33,400 --> 01:23:38,400 Speaker 1: from me. I mean, like literally, like I mean to 1413 01:23:38,520 --> 01:23:41,360 Speaker 1: think that my sons would not be able to roll 1414 01:23:41,400 --> 01:23:43,559 Speaker 1: out here on public land in Arkansas and hunt in 1415 01:23:43,720 --> 01:23:49,160 Speaker 1: twenty five years, I mean, that's like, it's like tragedy, 1416 01:23:49,840 --> 01:23:52,920 Speaker 1: and so we want to we don't want that to happen. 1417 01:23:53,240 --> 01:23:55,960 Speaker 1: But man, we've gone over our hour. Hadn't we, Colvin 1418 01:23:59,320 --> 01:24:02,599 Speaker 1: just war, we wouldn't do it. Well, thanks so much 1419 01:24:02,720 --> 01:24:05,640 Speaker 1: Jens for coming on. Awesome. Yeah, no, I appreciate it 1420 01:24:05,760 --> 01:24:09,960 Speaker 1: very much, and and hopefully we made a few points 1421 01:24:10,000 --> 01:24:13,439 Speaker 1: that people hadn't thought about. Yeah, well, everybody check out 1422 01:24:13,479 --> 01:24:18,200 Speaker 1: the back country Hunters and Anglers, and also check out Well, 1423 01:24:18,560 --> 01:24:21,160 Speaker 1: if you're in Arkansas, check out the Arkansas Chapter. It's 1424 01:24:21,160 --> 01:24:24,960 Speaker 1: not it's not SUNS Chapter yet, but you know Southeast Chapter, 1425 01:24:25,240 --> 01:24:29,080 Speaker 1: Southeast Chapter. I need to switch over from Texas. Yeah, yeah, 1426 01:24:29,160 --> 01:24:31,439 Speaker 1: you need to update your mailing address on the website 1427 01:24:31,720 --> 01:24:35,120 Speaker 1: and you'll be part of us just like that. Well, 1428 01:24:35,320 --> 01:24:37,880 Speaker 1: keep the wild places wild, because that's where the bears live.