1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:02,840 Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. 2 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:07,560 Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff you should Know? 3 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:16,319 Speaker 1: From House Stuff Works dot Com. Hey, and welcome to 4 00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:19,920 Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W Chuck Bryant, 5 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 1: and that makes this stuff you should know? Right, that's right. 6 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:26,759 Speaker 1: How are you doing? I am well, sir, How are you? 7 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:29,960 Speaker 1: I'm pretty good. It's lovely here in Atlanta. It is. 8 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:32,960 Speaker 1: It's like seventy five degrees beautiful. It's like San Diego 9 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:37,560 Speaker 1: moved here. Hey. You hear that music? Josh? Yeah, Yeah, 10 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 1: that's Ben Sully, who will meet later. Right, that's right. 11 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:42,600 Speaker 1: I could listen to that stuff all day. Man, that 12 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:49,200 Speaker 1: chilling music. Macleagen awesome. Yeah, let's get into this one, 13 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:51,560 Speaker 1: all right, let's do it. This is the shortest intro 14 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 1: how ever. Okay, okay, but it's it's it's telling. It's 15 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:56,560 Speaker 1: a good one. And you would think that I would 16 00:00:56,600 --> 00:00:58,600 Speaker 1: have had it ready since it's the intro, you know. 17 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:01,680 Speaker 1: But I like to play things fast and loose, kind 18 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:03,800 Speaker 1: of by the seat of my pants. And I also 19 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:05,840 Speaker 1: like to see how much time I can fill up 20 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:08,880 Speaker 1: all I look for things, right, like I've done you, 21 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 1: But Chuck, I'm gonna give you a shocking statistic. There's 22 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:15,319 Speaker 1: gonna be a lot of those in this one. In 23 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:19,640 Speaker 1: the great state of West Virginia, which is next to 24 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:25,319 Speaker 1: Virginia just west of it, though, UM since nineteen seventy nine, 25 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:29,560 Speaker 1: the number of employed miners in that state, and mining 26 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:32,120 Speaker 1: is the number one industry in West Virginia. It's coal 27 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:36,319 Speaker 1: mine country. The number of miners um in since nineteen 28 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:39,360 Speaker 1: seventy nine in that state has declined from sixty thousand 29 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 1: to twenty two thousand, according to the state's Senator Robert Bird, 30 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 1: but coal mining itself has dramatically increased over that time. 31 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:53,960 Speaker 1: So how do you explain that Well, as a matter 32 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 1: of fact, the whole podcast that we're about to do 33 00:01:56,320 --> 00:02:01,559 Speaker 1: explains it very clearly. A tie of mining process called 34 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:06,520 Speaker 1: mountaintop removal mining or strip mining. What's a type of 35 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 1: strip mining? Yeah, apparently one person called it strip mining 36 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:14,560 Speaker 1: on steroids. UM is very much responsible for the UM 37 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 1: the ability for coal mining to just go through the 38 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:21,920 Speaker 1: roof in Appalachia while requiring fear and fear people. So 39 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:26,320 Speaker 1: while coal has has increased, unemployment has increased as well. 40 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 1: And I guess let's just get right into it, because 41 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 1: this one is chock full of stats and stories and 42 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:35,639 Speaker 1: this is an unusual podcast for us. And by the way, 43 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:39,080 Speaker 1: this one is officially yours, given this one to me. 44 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:42,119 Speaker 1: This you did the you did the legwork for this one. Yeah, 45 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:44,280 Speaker 1: and we should add at the end of this podcast, 46 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:47,399 Speaker 1: we're gonna have a interview with uh in our first 47 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:53,400 Speaker 1: musical guest ever, with singer, songwriter and cello player Ben Soley, 48 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:58,079 Speaker 1: who was an activist for against mountaintop removal coal mining 49 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:01,720 Speaker 1: and uh it's on you know, the subpop label with 50 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:04,600 Speaker 1: his music, and he's gonna interview with us and play 51 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:07,119 Speaker 1: a song and it's gonna be pretty cool to stick around. Yes, 52 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:09,840 Speaker 1: don't go anywhere in the middle of the podcast, all right, 53 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 1: So let's get into it. So, um, chuck. Traditionally, when 54 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:15,200 Speaker 1: you think of mining, you think of basically a hole 55 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 1: in the side of the mountain held up with timbers 56 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 1: that UM men covered in coal dust are going into 57 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 1: with pick axes and headlamps. Extremely dangerous, um job, but 58 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 1: a job that's traditionally um been able to support families. Yes, 59 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 1: long has its roots in Appalachia, right, Um, this is 60 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 1: a totally different kind of mining. Mountaintop removal mining is 61 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:45,440 Speaker 1: where traditional mining you bore into the mountain. With mountain 62 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:47,760 Speaker 1: top removal mining, you blow the top off of the 63 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 1: mountain to expose the coal steam rather than digging in 64 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:54,840 Speaker 1: to get it. Yeah, coal steams run horizontally through a mountain. 65 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:58,400 Speaker 1: So what happens is and this is the how it 66 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 1: works portion. Yeah, and it's pretty amazing how they do this. 67 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:05,720 Speaker 1: And even Ben has told me it's pretty amazing, even 68 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 1: though he thinks it's an awful practice, it's pretty amazing. 69 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:10,840 Speaker 1: On the last they clear cut the forest. They scrape 70 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:17,600 Speaker 1: away the top, soil, lumber, herbs, all that stuff, herbs, herbs, wildlife, 71 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:22,400 Speaker 1: and habitat. The wildlife habitat is destroyed. Vegetation is destroyed. 72 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:27,359 Speaker 1: And in their defense they usually customarily they send a 73 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 1: guy in with a machine gun who just fires into 74 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 1: the air like a full day and then he comes 75 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:34,600 Speaker 1: down the mountain. Then they start clear cutting, so they 76 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 1: do all this. Once they've done all that, they blow 77 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:40,880 Speaker 1: up the top of the mountain as much as eight 78 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:44,000 Speaker 1: hundred to a thousand feet I've seen. The mountain is 79 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:47,120 Speaker 1: just gone. That's why they call it removal. Yeah, and 80 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:51,680 Speaker 1: it's flattened out and it looks like a barren moonscape 81 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:54,599 Speaker 1: instead of a forest in a mountain. Yeah, that's the 82 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:57,920 Speaker 1: that's the term that's used by just about anybody who 83 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:02,640 Speaker 1: has anything to do with either um uh it's supporting 84 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:08,359 Speaker 1: or opposing coal mining mountaintop coal mining. Moonscape is the 85 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:10,920 Speaker 1: word that everyone always uses. That's what I was trying 86 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:13,039 Speaker 1: to get out from that point. Um, they have these 87 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:15,480 Speaker 1: big shovels that come and dig into the soil. U 88 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 1: haul that stuff away into the valleys nearby. Yeah, because 89 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:22,120 Speaker 1: it's not like the stuff that s integrates this this um, 90 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 1: this thing that's called overburdened by the mining industry, which 91 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:31,160 Speaker 1: is you know, rock, soil, dirt, trees. Yeah. Um, Like 92 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 1: it doesn't just evaporate. You have to get rid of it. Yeah, 93 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 1: you gotta put it somewhere. And then something called a 94 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:38,599 Speaker 1: drag line, which is one of the more impressive machines 95 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:41,640 Speaker 1: I've ever seen. Huge. How big are these things? They 96 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:45,040 Speaker 1: said somewhere stories Yeah, um, and they way up to 97 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:49,040 Speaker 1: eight million pounds and apparently they're they're um. Yeah, so 98 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 1: you saw that picture. It looks like an oil rig 99 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:55,480 Speaker 1: on like tracks. Yeah, pretty much. Yeah, So the drag 100 00:05:55,520 --> 00:06:00,520 Speaker 1: line comes in to expose the coil, digs into the rock. Um, 101 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:04,239 Speaker 1: these machines scoop out the coal. The machines that scoop 102 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:07,400 Speaker 1: are the coal. Their buckets can hold up to twenty 103 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:10,919 Speaker 1: compact sized cars. Wow, that's large. Is there are massive 104 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 1: operations and the result of this is, uh, the narrow 105 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 1: valleys have been filled. It's called valley fill. And one. 106 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:23,120 Speaker 1: We got a bunch of stats. Here's one. Coal companies 107 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:28,359 Speaker 1: have buried more than twelve miles of headwaters and streams, 108 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:33,080 Speaker 1: rivers and streams buried underneath the stuff gone forever. Yeah, 109 00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 1: with the overburn, remember the stuff that they blew the 110 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 1: top of the mountain off of may have to get 111 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 1: rid of it. There's two ways to do it. When 112 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:40,800 Speaker 1: you truck it off of the mountain and dump trucks, 113 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:43,760 Speaker 1: which is done, but it's also extremely expensive and time consuming. 114 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:47,719 Speaker 1: Or you move bulldozers up there and you push the 115 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:51,760 Speaker 1: overburden into the valley below in the in typically in 116 00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:54,719 Speaker 1: a valley there's going to be some sort of stream 117 00:06:54,960 --> 00:07:00,200 Speaker 1: water supply. Yeah. And um, if you have a per mint, 118 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 1: if you apply for a valley filled permit, um, you 119 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:06,960 Speaker 1: you can you're usually granted one and you just push 120 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 1: that stuff into the valley and then start getting to 121 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:13,480 Speaker 1: the coal. Right, And so that's um. There's a lot 122 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:14,880 Speaker 1: of problems with this and we're going to try and 123 00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 1: hit on all of them, the myriad issues. It's not 124 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 1: what you think you can just stop right here's probably could. 125 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 1: Another one of the issues is something when they wash 126 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:27,760 Speaker 1: the coal. It's called the result of of the wash 127 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 1: is what they end up was called coal slurry. Right, 128 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 1: And you wash coal because UM coal comes with a 129 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:38,560 Speaker 1: lot of other organic and inorganic toxins metals compounds UM 130 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:42,800 Speaker 1: like nickel, cadmium, mercury that keep it from burning as well. Right, Yeah, 131 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 1: and there's chemicals added to the wash as well which 132 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 1: end up in the coal slurry ponds. Right. So you're 133 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:52,600 Speaker 1: you're you're washing it for market, but this water has 134 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 1: got to go somewhere, and it's extremely toxic. UM mercury 135 00:07:56,640 --> 00:07:59,119 Speaker 1: alone would make it extremely toxic. All those other heavy 136 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:02,880 Speaker 1: metals just make it been worse. So you either inject 137 00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:06,120 Speaker 1: them into old minds all abandoned minds is one one 138 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:09,800 Speaker 1: thing that we do with cole slurry, or you wash 139 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 1: them into holding ponds, which are basically earthen damns built 140 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:17,480 Speaker 1: into the side of the mountain, which can be precarious, 141 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:19,440 Speaker 1: as we'll find out. Yeah, and if you've seen cole slurry, 142 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:21,680 Speaker 1: I mean, just type it into Google images, it looks like, 143 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:29,040 Speaker 1: uh like soupy um black sludge is about the best 144 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 1: comparison I can make. So these ponds um. One of 145 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:36,559 Speaker 1: these actually busted. The dam broken in nineteen seventy two 146 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:40,560 Speaker 1: in West Virginia a Buffalo Creek and a hundred and 147 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:44,480 Speaker 1: thirty two million gallons of this stuff rushed through the valley, 148 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 1: killed a hundred and twenty five people injured, eleven hundred 149 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:51,080 Speaker 1: and four thousand people were left homeless. And these by 150 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:54,200 Speaker 1: and large are very poor people, which is one of 151 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:57,200 Speaker 1: the keys here that we're gonna keep hitting on. Yeah, 152 00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:01,319 Speaker 1: I think Wise County, West Virginia. The um the average 153 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:04,800 Speaker 1: income is like eighteen thousand for a family something like that. Yeah, 154 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 1: graduation rate is about six and the poverty level is 155 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:13,840 Speaker 1: exactly what it was during the was it Eisenhower I 156 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 1: think so Eisenhower administration when he went there and said 157 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:19,040 Speaker 1: we have to end poverty in West Virginia. It's the 158 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:24,360 Speaker 1: same lb J. Yeah, Johnson, Sorry, UM. So once this 159 00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:27,200 Speaker 1: whole operation is done, there may be more than one seam, 160 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 1: and there's different ways to get into it. UM, Like 161 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 1: you can dig in from the side high wall mining, 162 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:35,600 Speaker 1: or you can blow the top off the mountain where 163 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:38,680 Speaker 1: you can do both. But once the mountains exhausted, and 164 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:42,240 Speaker 1: these are massive sites. There's one in Virginia, I believe 165 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:46,560 Speaker 1: that's like thirty five thousand acres, which that's one site 166 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 1: that Yeah, that's just one mining operation, or you could 167 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:54,760 Speaker 1: also call it one former mountain. UM. When when the 168 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 1: time was when you left, that was that you got 169 00:09:58,000 --> 00:09:59,360 Speaker 1: your coal and you got out of there in the 170 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 1: mining oper oration was abandoned. UM. Nowadays you were supposed 171 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:09,079 Speaker 1: to most most mountaintop removal permits UH come with UH 172 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 1: an addendum that you have to do some sort of reclamation. 173 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:16,560 Speaker 1: And the reclamation process typically is supposed to involve basically 174 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:22,320 Speaker 1: piling rock and stuff back up, UM, regrowing this area 175 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:28,040 Speaker 1: and UM trying to basically simulate a mountain again. Yeah, 176 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:31,319 Speaker 1: and then was when that was first introduced, the Surface 177 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:36,440 Speaker 1: Mining Control and Reclamation Act established standards. UH. They said 178 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:38,440 Speaker 1: back then that the goal was just to get grass 179 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:42,960 Speaker 1: to grow, anything to grow, and reclamation is a good 180 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:47,520 Speaker 1: thing in theory, but one of the knocks that activists 181 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:50,079 Speaker 1: like to point out is that what happens on paper 182 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 1: isn't always what happens in reality. And there's been studies 183 00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:56,520 Speaker 1: that show that the soil is still not the same 184 00:10:56,679 --> 00:10:59,839 Speaker 1: decades later. It's just not the same. You can't make 185 00:10:59,840 --> 00:11:04,520 Speaker 1: it what it was right. Um. There is one sterling 186 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 1: example of what can be done. It's called the Powell 187 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:13,400 Speaker 1: River Project. So the Powell River Project is um in Virginia, 188 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:18,040 Speaker 1: I believe, and it's acres. It's a former um mining site. 189 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:23,360 Speaker 1: UM that was. It's just a leveled mountaintop and some 190 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:27,959 Speaker 1: care was given to it and now it is basically 191 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:33,480 Speaker 1: a wildlife preserve. UM. It has strawberries and blueberries growing 192 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:36,959 Speaker 1: on it and sugar maples and cattle is grazing on 193 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:40,960 Speaker 1: the turf. UM. The wildlife that's come back are screech 194 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:45,360 Speaker 1: and bard owl's, coyote, bear, turkey. UM. They're basically this 195 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:49,559 Speaker 1: this mountain is getting back to nature, right. Yeah. Primarily 196 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:53,600 Speaker 1: financed by the coal industry. Must say to say that, UM, 197 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:56,560 Speaker 1: And I think the deal is if everything went down 198 00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:59,520 Speaker 1: like it's going down at Powell River, there would be 199 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:03,400 Speaker 1: fewer is shoes. But that's not the case. Unfortunately, that's 200 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 1: just a sterling example of what could be done. Well, 201 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:10,000 Speaker 1: this is what happens when you spend like decades and 202 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 1: lots of money on this one particular site for the 203 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 1: most case. I think you told me that they just 204 00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 1: like throw some grass seed down over the old site. 205 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:23,199 Speaker 1: And that's that, right, And UM, I guess well we 206 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:26,280 Speaker 1: should probably start now talking about the environmental impact. There's 207 00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:31,360 Speaker 1: basically two ways, um, you can you can classify the 208 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:36,520 Speaker 1: impacts that this has three ways. One economic which looks 209 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 1: like it should be good, right, but if you look 210 00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:45,040 Speaker 1: at the rates of unemployment in the continuous poverty in Appalachia, UM, 211 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:49,520 Speaker 1: you'll actually see that it's not so great. The economic impact, Um, 212 00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:53,440 Speaker 1: the environmental impact, and then the human impact. So let's 213 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:57,640 Speaker 1: talk about environment We're talking about cold slurry, right, you 214 00:12:57,679 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 1: have to put that cold slurry somewhere the earthen damn 215 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:04,880 Speaker 1: like you said, UM, at Buffalo Creek in nine collapsed, 216 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:08,000 Speaker 1: spilled a hundred and thirty two million gallons and killed 217 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:11,520 Speaker 1: a hundred people, right, that's right, and two thousand in 218 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:15,120 Speaker 1: Kentucky there was another damn break two hundred and fifty 219 00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:20,160 Speaker 1: million gallons of sludge flowed into the Tug Fork of 220 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:23,880 Speaker 1: the Big Sandy River and affected streams and rivers up 221 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:26,679 Speaker 1: to a hundred miles away. More than a million fish 222 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:30,959 Speaker 1: and other wildlife died. One of the biggest environmental disasters 223 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:33,240 Speaker 1: in this country's history, and a lot of people probably 224 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:36,880 Speaker 1: never heard of it. Yeah, it's apparently the areas of 225 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:43,480 Speaker 1: exposure was twenty times that of the ex m Valdi's disaster. Yeah, 226 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:45,400 Speaker 1: and I believe it was either this one or the 227 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 1: other one. Um. One of the coal company heads called 228 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 1: it because heavy rains is what eventually calls the damn 229 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:54,000 Speaker 1: to break on top of the slurry. Called it an 230 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:57,720 Speaker 1: act of God. Yeah, and I believe that's how it 231 00:13:57,800 --> 00:13:59,959 Speaker 1: was left so sort of washing our hands of it. 232 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:03,360 Speaker 1: It was because the heavy rains, and you know, that's 233 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:06,800 Speaker 1: what happened. So you also mentioned Valley phil Um where 234 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:09,680 Speaker 1: streams have been affected just by being buried, which means 235 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 1: no more stream stat for you. There sixty seven hundred 236 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:19,520 Speaker 1: Valley Phill permits in the United States, six thousand, seven 237 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:21,960 Speaker 1: hundred times this has happened. Actually, I think it's more 238 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:24,400 Speaker 1: than I think it's um. Like in the seventy two 239 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:27,480 Speaker 1: hundreds because it was between eighty five and two thousand one. 240 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:31,000 Speaker 1: And we found another one. Chuck, that's um, there's been 241 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:33,440 Speaker 1: about five hundred or so from two thousand one to 242 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 1: two thousand and eight. Yeah, things have really ramped up 243 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 1: here in the last decade. Stars so UM the back 244 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:43,480 Speaker 1: to the streams as well. Apparently there was this um 245 00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:48,040 Speaker 1: this uh study in Science where UM twelve environmental science 246 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:52,520 Speaker 1: sciencests got in Science magazine. Yes, you know, in Science 247 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:58,120 Speaker 1: in January last this past you know, January twelve environmental 248 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:00,840 Speaker 1: sciences got together and did a survey of the literature 249 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:07,560 Speaker 1: of on the environmental impact of mountaintop removal mining and UM, 250 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:10,000 Speaker 1: the valleys you said, I think something like twelve hundred 251 00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 1: miles of valley valley streams and headwaters have been affected. Um. 252 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 1: These these guys sampled water and seventy three of seventy 253 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 1: eight streams. Um or, they did a study on this 254 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:26,400 Speaker 1: and found that UM, seventy three of the seventy eight 255 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:32,320 Speaker 1: streams they sampled had deformed fish carrying toxic levels of selenium, 256 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:35,120 Speaker 1: which is a heavy metal, which is not good. UM. 257 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 1: And if your fish is deformed, that's not good. In general. Yeah, 258 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:44,080 Speaker 1: the Simpsons, uh episode of Flanky how Many Eyes was three? 259 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 1: Almost sit four, we would have heard it about that. Um. 260 00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:51,560 Speaker 1: Drinking water is another problem because the cold slurry. These 261 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:56,360 Speaker 1: earthen dams are temporary solution to begin with, um, but 262 00:15:56,640 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 1: they can leak and that cold slurry can enter drinking water. Yeah. 263 00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:04,320 Speaker 1: And you know, just to recap real quick though on 264 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:08,760 Speaker 1: the reclamation that I did find that study from earlier. 265 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:11,800 Speaker 1: The study said that fifteen years after a mountaintop was 266 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 1: leveled at this one site, trees had still not regrown 267 00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:17,320 Speaker 1: because they just can't make the soil like it used 268 00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:20,239 Speaker 1: to be. And the U. S. Army Corps of Engineers 269 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:22,680 Speaker 1: and that's for the land. When it comes to the streams, 270 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:25,040 Speaker 1: the Army Corps of Engineers said under oath in their 271 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:28,840 Speaker 1: testimony um that there is not a successful stream creation 272 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:31,680 Speaker 1: project in junction with this. Yeah, or they don't know 273 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:33,720 Speaker 1: of one. Yeah. Like basically, all right, we can try 274 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:36,320 Speaker 1: and reform the mountains to a rough assemblance of what 275 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 1: it once was, but you can't just make new streams 276 00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:40,400 Speaker 1: and we haven't found out a way to do that. 277 00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 1: It's kind of like um, taking a sword and severing 278 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 1: someone's head and it just kind of balancing it back 279 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:49,120 Speaker 1: on the neck again. It's there, but it's not really 280 00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:52,280 Speaker 1: working any longer. Right, Yeah, So that's some of the 281 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:54,600 Speaker 1: environment and where you're also talking about, Uh, it's in 282 00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:57,560 Speaker 1: the drinking water. It is um, which kind of is 283 00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 1: it's straddles um the environmental and the human impacts. Um. 284 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 1: There are people in this literature that we've been um 285 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:10,400 Speaker 1: researching for this podcast whose families have lived in these 286 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:13,480 Speaker 1: areas for like two hundred and thirty years or so, right, 287 00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:17,919 Speaker 1: Like these are straight up Appalachian folk, right, hillbilies they 288 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:20,960 Speaker 1: call them, And um, the Hillbillies have been there for 289 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 1: a while and before I guess it was probably a 290 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 1: very quiet place. But as we've mentioned, with mountaintop removal, mining, 291 00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:32,399 Speaker 1: explosives are a major part of it. So when you 292 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:34,239 Speaker 1: blow the top off of a mountain, first of all, 293 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:38,560 Speaker 1: it takes a lot of explosives, but it's very loud. Um. Apparently, 294 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:42,080 Speaker 1: in two thousand three, sixty seven percent of all explosives 295 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:44,680 Speaker 1: produced in the US were consumed by the coal industry, 296 00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:47,479 Speaker 1: and in West Virginia alone, that figure led to an 297 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:51,720 Speaker 1: estimated three million pounds of explosives being used a day. 298 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:55,120 Speaker 1: A day to blow up mountains. People live on these 299 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:58,719 Speaker 1: mountains still, the same mountains that they're blowing up, so 300 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:02,119 Speaker 1: you've got the noise. Have a very dangerous condition called 301 00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:05,320 Speaker 1: fly rock, yeah, which is exactly what it sounds like. 302 00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:08,800 Speaker 1: When you blow a mountain top up. Rock flies everywhere, 303 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:12,480 Speaker 1: and if somebody's living there, it um can go into 304 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:14,399 Speaker 1: their house and kill them. Yeah, And that was the 305 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:17,119 Speaker 1: case in uh two thousand four at two thirty in 306 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:21,000 Speaker 1: the morning, bulldoz are operating without a permit. At two 307 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:24,320 Speaker 1: again to thirty in the morning, because bulldozer was working 308 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:27,240 Speaker 1: on mine site without a permit, it dislodged a thousand 309 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:30,959 Speaker 1: pound boulder, rolled two hundred feet down and crushed three 310 00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:33,639 Speaker 1: year old Jeremy Davidson in his bed, who was sleeping 311 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:36,080 Speaker 1: at the time. Yet and the company was fined fifteen 312 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:39,920 Speaker 1: tho dollars for that, yeah, for gross negligence. Yeah. So 313 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:42,280 Speaker 1: I don't even have a comment on that. We'll just 314 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:46,840 Speaker 1: leave that to the listeners. Um. The have some more 315 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:49,000 Speaker 1: deaths here if you want to be dark for another moment. 316 00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 1: In West Virginia, fourteen people drowned in the last three 317 00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:55,840 Speaker 1: years because of floods and mud slides, in Kentucky, fifty 318 00:18:55,840 --> 00:18:58,200 Speaker 1: people have been killed and five injured over the last 319 00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:03,760 Speaker 1: five years by cold trucks that were illegally overloaded. And 320 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:07,159 Speaker 1: on the flooding thing, I think they said that in 321 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:10,120 Speaker 1: this one spot in West Virginia that there were three 322 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 1: what they call a thousand year flood or a hundred 323 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:17,479 Speaker 1: year flood in ten days, three year floods in ten 324 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:21,240 Speaker 1: days in this one region. That's not supposed to happen. UM. 325 00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:24,679 Speaker 1: And you know you're talking about death's that's just directly 326 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:28,840 Speaker 1: from drownings, UM injury, that kind of thing. If you 327 00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:32,359 Speaker 1: take all of the public health hazards into account, UM 328 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:37,040 Speaker 1: as a public Health reports UM Journal study did UH 329 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:41,560 Speaker 1: this year I think last year, I'm sorry, UM. Anywhere 330 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:46,040 Speaker 1: between sevent hundred and thirty six and hundred and eighty 331 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:49,399 Speaker 1: nine people die in Appalachia each year as a result 332 00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:51,480 Speaker 1: of the coal mining industry there, right, So there is 333 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:53,359 Speaker 1: a lot of death, but there's also a lot of 334 00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:57,720 Speaker 1: potential death too. We talked about Buffalo Creek where the 335 00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:01,720 Speaker 1: slurry uh damn, a slurry pond damn broke and killed 336 00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 1: a hundred and twenty people. That was a hundred and 337 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:09,960 Speaker 1: thirty million gallons of coal slurry, right killed the people. 338 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:15,600 Speaker 1: There is a place UM called marsh Fork, march Fork 339 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:18,240 Speaker 1: Elementary School. I saw a documentary on the school. So 340 00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:23,520 Speaker 1: march Fork has UM I believe two hundred something students 341 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:27,439 Speaker 1: going there every day. And just above the elementary school 342 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:31,600 Speaker 1: there is a coal slurry pond above it on the 343 00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:36,240 Speaker 1: mountain side that holds three billion gallons of coal sludge. Yeah, 344 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:38,639 Speaker 1: and there's a whole operation. There's a silo three hundred 345 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:42,359 Speaker 1: feet from the school. Right, So rather than the hundred 346 00:20:42,359 --> 00:20:44,639 Speaker 1: and thirty two million gallons, we're talking about three billion 347 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 1: gallons poised behind an earthen dam right above an elementary school. 348 00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:53,000 Speaker 1: So there's a lot of potential for a disaster as well. Right. Yeah, 349 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:55,360 Speaker 1: that's a Massy Energy that's one of the bigger coal 350 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:57,960 Speaker 1: companies in the United States. And you might remember Massey's 351 00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:02,040 Speaker 1: name by UM the up for Big Branch mine explosion 352 00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:05,120 Speaker 1: that happened about a year ago from two days ago. 353 00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 1: It was April five, UM that that explosion killed twenty 354 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:15,520 Speaker 1: nine miners and leaving three others trapped. UM. So Massy is, 355 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:19,280 Speaker 1: like you said, big in a traditional mining uh surface 356 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:24,600 Speaker 1: mining and regulation. Actually one of their former executives was 357 00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:30,200 Speaker 1: named a Deputy Energy Secretary for fossil fuels a couple 358 00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:34,240 Speaker 1: of years back. That's right, President Bush named appointed uh 359 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:37,240 Speaker 1: what was his name? His name was Stanley sue Bileski. 360 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:41,080 Speaker 1: He was appointed in UM two seven December two thousand 361 00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:44,480 Speaker 1: seven to the Department of Energy. Yeah, okay, Uh. Back 362 00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:48,439 Speaker 1: to March Fork Elementary School. That that actually one of 363 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:51,159 Speaker 1: the documentaries I saw yesterday was on that school specifically, 364 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:55,320 Speaker 1: and uh, West Virginia activists Bo Webb, he's one of 365 00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:58,480 Speaker 1: the leading activists on this cause. Found of the parents 366 00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:00,840 Speaker 1: are saying that they're chill. Dren are coming home from 367 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:05,720 Speaker 1: school with a variety of illnesses like nausea, diarrhea, vomiting, 368 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:12,199 Speaker 1: shortness of breath, wheezing, asthma, um long term effects, kidney damage. 369 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:14,399 Speaker 1: There's been a lot of kidney damage in that area, 370 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:18,000 Speaker 1: liver damage, spleen failure, bone damage, and cancer of the 371 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:25,280 Speaker 1: digestive digestive track. And um Bo has uh Actually it 372 00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:27,040 Speaker 1: wasn't Bo, but one of the other activists there. They 373 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:29,399 Speaker 1: were trying to raise money in this documentary to build 374 00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:32,400 Speaker 1: a new school not near you know, not threeet away 375 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:35,080 Speaker 1: from a coal mining corporation. And they were trying to 376 00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:38,280 Speaker 1: raise it by donating pennies, and they in the documentary 377 00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:42,280 Speaker 1: they marched and had a rally at the governor's office 378 00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:45,280 Speaker 1: in West Virginia and it was hardcore. Man, it was 379 00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:48,080 Speaker 1: hard to watch. Like literally, the governor gave him a 380 00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:50,400 Speaker 1: minute and he's glad handing and talking to people, and 381 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:52,720 Speaker 1: you know, they bring out this little girl from the 382 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:54,800 Speaker 1: school and he's like, well, what are you interested in? 383 00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:56,800 Speaker 1: And you sure are cute and what do you want 384 00:22:56,800 --> 00:22:59,679 Speaker 1: to be when you grow up? And basically the kids 385 00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:01,560 Speaker 1: just like, I don't want to live under a coal 386 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:04,400 Speaker 1: mine and I don't want to be sick anymore. And 387 00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:07,040 Speaker 1: they called this guy out, the governor out big time. 388 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:09,919 Speaker 1: And it was really one of those uncomfortable scenes to 389 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:14,280 Speaker 1: watch when politics gets when it's clear that this guy 390 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:18,240 Speaker 1: has no answer and the big coal has their lobbyists 391 00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:20,800 Speaker 1: that are you know, on the on the side of 392 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:23,879 Speaker 1: you know, big coal mining, and it was it was 393 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:28,320 Speaker 1: just very uncomfortable and disturbing to watch, but you should 394 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:31,240 Speaker 1: watch it nonetheless. And that was that was marsh Creek 395 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:35,360 Speaker 1: Elementaries in West Virginia, right, yeah, okay, so um, yeah, 396 00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:38,200 Speaker 1: it's in Rock Creek. I see um chuck. One of 397 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:41,400 Speaker 1: the reasons why the governor would have been embarrassed or 398 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 1: um felt awkward is because there is a ton of 399 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:48,359 Speaker 1: money at stake here. That one UM Public Health Reports 400 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,800 Speaker 1: Journal study. Yeah that that said you know, between um 401 00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:57,800 Speaker 1: people die each year from coal mining. Um. It was 402 00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:01,880 Speaker 1: an economics paper really, and it said that, um, the 403 00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:06,720 Speaker 1: coal industry generates about eight billion dollars in economic contribution 404 00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:11,160 Speaker 1: to Appalachia every year, right, yeah, which is a lot. 405 00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:14,159 Speaker 1: It's like, you know, you can't that's a lot of 406 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:17,639 Speaker 1: money spent on that area. The problem is this same paper, 407 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:21,879 Speaker 1: using the same model, figured out that um, it costs 408 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:27,159 Speaker 1: about forty two billion dollars in healthcare costs and the 409 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:30,359 Speaker 1: cost of life. So that's a big picture. Yeah. Yeah, 410 00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:32,440 Speaker 1: so you're actually losing. And you can just look at 411 00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:34,760 Speaker 1: you know, the poverty in Appalachia and see, oh, well, 412 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:36,760 Speaker 1: these people who are literally next to these mines are 413 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:39,800 Speaker 1: not benefiting from this at all. Right, and the uh 414 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:42,680 Speaker 1: there's another stat. Activists will point out that only about 415 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:45,240 Speaker 1: four or five percent of our of our nation's coal 416 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:50,000 Speaker 1: energy comes from mountaintop removal mining. So it's not like, oh, 417 00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:52,200 Speaker 1: you know, like of the coal that we use comes 418 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:55,320 Speaker 1: from this practice, so we really really need it. Uh. 419 00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 1: They will tell you that conservation alone, we could save 420 00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:02,399 Speaker 1: an average of our energy to man's which far outweighs 421 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:04,680 Speaker 1: you know, by what four or five times the five 422 00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:06,960 Speaker 1: percent that we're using. Right, I've seen up the ten 423 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:11,720 Speaker 1: percent um comes from strip mining or from mountaintop removable mining. 424 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:17,800 Speaker 1: But that's being used pretty grievingly because we um, the 425 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:21,280 Speaker 1: United States gets about fifty of its electricity. I think 426 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:23,239 Speaker 1: in two thousand nine, I got forty percent of it's 427 00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:27,440 Speaker 1: electricity from coal. So usually it's around Yeah, and we're 428 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:29,680 Speaker 1: exporting coal too. It's coal is an important part of 429 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:32,760 Speaker 1: our energy plan. I can't ignore that. So where does 430 00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:37,960 Speaker 1: that leave us, Chuck, Well, there's a couple of things, uh, Josh. 431 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:41,280 Speaker 1: One reason that I wanted to do this show, and 432 00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:43,520 Speaker 1: that you've got on board and we're way behind it too, 433 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:47,919 Speaker 1: is because oh no, I'm I'm just doing this. Is 434 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:52,080 Speaker 1: because this is a problem that affects poor rural people, 435 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:58,160 Speaker 1: for the most part, people in West Virginia, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Kentucky, uh, 436 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:01,600 Speaker 1: Tennessee now, and and that they don't have the same 437 00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:06,320 Speaker 1: voice that other folks do. UM. One of the leading, 438 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:08,000 Speaker 1: but I think it was bow Webb again said if 439 00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:11,080 Speaker 1: this this wouldn't happen in New England. Um that biggest 440 00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:13,800 Speaker 1: environmental disaster west of the or east of the Mississippi 441 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:16,280 Speaker 1: River happened in The New York Times didn't report about 442 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:20,000 Speaker 1: it for like four months. So it's and I guess 443 00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:22,119 Speaker 1: a lot of the listeners out there probably looked at 444 00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:25,200 Speaker 1: the title what is Mountaintop removable coal mining and said, yeah, 445 00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:27,360 Speaker 1: what is that? I've never heard of it. But we've 446 00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:30,359 Speaker 1: all heard of the Valdez, we heard about the you know, 447 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:33,840 Speaker 1: all these disasters obviously need attention. I'm not saying that 448 00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:36,480 Speaker 1: we shouldn't pay attention to things like oil spills, but 449 00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:38,080 Speaker 1: it gets a lot more at tension when it's on 450 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:42,240 Speaker 1: the Gulf of Florida with Destin and seaside right there 451 00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:44,680 Speaker 1: than it does in the rural mountains of West Virginia. 452 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:46,600 Speaker 1: So somebody needs to be talking about this, and a 453 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:51,359 Speaker 1: lot of people are. And another problem is the coal 454 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:56,960 Speaker 1: lobby and the fact that companies can donate money to 455 00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:01,400 Speaker 1: uh political campaigns and getting a pockets of politicians and 456 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:04,720 Speaker 1: favors are paid back. And it's the same old story 457 00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:07,359 Speaker 1: with you know, big industry like this. It's just sad 458 00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:10,119 Speaker 1: to see it happening. Well, it is. It's a big 459 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:13,040 Speaker 1: it's a there's a big debate going on right now 460 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:16,679 Speaker 1: about just how much the e p A should have 461 00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:21,080 Speaker 1: teeth in regards to mountaintop removal mining, right. Yeah, And 462 00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:24,240 Speaker 1: the e p as new chief is pretty progressive and 463 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:28,679 Speaker 1: pretty hardcore and not a friend of big business, and 464 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:34,359 Speaker 1: she is making some waves. Um. Coal miners are against 465 00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:38,560 Speaker 1: these actions. You're talking about Lisa Jackson. Yeah, and she's 466 00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:41,160 Speaker 1: a bulldog. That read that Rolling Stone interview on her, 467 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:45,640 Speaker 1: and she's she said her job is just to look 468 00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:48,000 Speaker 1: out for the environment, that that's the only thing she 469 00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:51,320 Speaker 1: wants to do. And you know, if you're in her way, 470 00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:53,760 Speaker 1: she's gonna try and knock you down. Well, we'll see. 471 00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:56,520 Speaker 1: But that's still not enough um for a lot of people. 472 00:27:56,560 --> 00:28:00,520 Speaker 1: I think they're the general consensus among activists and probably 473 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:02,679 Speaker 1: people who live in school buses on the side of 474 00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:07,760 Speaker 1: a mountain nearby a mountaintop removal UM operation is that 475 00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:11,879 Speaker 1: it should be banned outright, Yeah, That that process is 476 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:16,040 Speaker 1: not mining those particular sites, but that that um type 477 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:19,360 Speaker 1: of mining, that method of mining should just be completely outlawed. Yeah. 478 00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:21,080 Speaker 1: I mean most of these permits were issued during the 479 00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:25,760 Speaker 1: Clinton and Bush administrations UH second Bush obviously, and there 480 00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,760 Speaker 1: were certain key provisions to the Clean Water Act that 481 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:33,439 Speaker 1: were rewritten UH to reclassify waste associated with strip mining 482 00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:38,840 Speaker 1: as benign film material. Federal judge rejected that UM, but 483 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:41,560 Speaker 1: then that change was upheld in two thousand three by 484 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:46,880 Speaker 1: UH fourth Circuit Court judge. And then Obama comes in 485 00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:51,240 Speaker 1: and people said, all right, dude, you're you're the environmental guy. 486 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:53,720 Speaker 1: Get rid of this altogether. In the first one days 487 00:28:54,280 --> 00:29:00,080 Speaker 1: didn't happen. But Obama has introduced UM stricter guidelines now 488 00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:02,520 Speaker 1: and the e p A has onto curtail mountain top 489 00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:05,960 Speaker 1: mining hailed by certain environmentalists. But if you talk to 490 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,680 Speaker 1: bow Webb, they'll say that ain't enough. Brother. He's like, 491 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:12,360 Speaker 1: you gotta outlaw mountaintop removal mining, period, and anything less 492 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:14,800 Speaker 1: than that is just playing into the hands a big 493 00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:17,840 Speaker 1: coal It's it's surprising that it has been allowed to 494 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:19,520 Speaker 1: go on. I mean, the idea of blowing the top 495 00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:21,920 Speaker 1: of a mountain and then pushing it into the valley below, 496 00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:25,600 Speaker 1: covering up the stream, and then introducing coal slurry to 497 00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:29,360 Speaker 1: this local environment. UM in an age where we you know, 498 00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:32,640 Speaker 1: where there's such a thing as Earth Day and people 499 00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:35,520 Speaker 1: are like, I will never use a paper or a 500 00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:38,760 Speaker 1: plastic bag. I used my own that I bought and 501 00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:42,680 Speaker 1: brought from home. That this is going on, is UM. 502 00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:46,760 Speaker 1: It's it's startling. Yeah. Well, UM, last and you know, 503 00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:48,880 Speaker 1: I said that there were some efforts by the Obama 504 00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:53,000 Speaker 1: administration to curtail this UM last Thursday. This is just 505 00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:56,640 Speaker 1: over the wire today, UM. Two senators from Kentucky, Mitch 506 00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:59,800 Speaker 1: McConnell and Ran Paul, introduced the bill trying to restrict 507 00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:02,680 Speaker 1: that p A from clamping down on it, giving the 508 00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:05,000 Speaker 1: e p A a a sixty day deadline to veto Clean 509 00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:08,480 Speaker 1: Water Act permits issued by the Corps of Engineers, and 510 00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:11,880 Speaker 1: UM activists are saying, and this is tricky, so they 511 00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:14,360 Speaker 1: put in that sixty eight thing. Everyone knows nothing in 512 00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:17,000 Speaker 1: the government can happen in sixty days, so it's sort 513 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:22,560 Speaker 1: of a a facade, red herring or red herring. Uh. 514 00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:24,400 Speaker 1: The bill would also prevent the e p A from 515 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:29,800 Speaker 1: retroactively vetoing permits. So UM. That was Mitch mcconollin, Ran 516 00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:33,200 Speaker 1: Paul and Ran Paul from Kentucky. If you're from Kentucky. 517 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:37,400 Speaker 1: You know all about your senators two thousand ten, said like, 518 00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:38,920 Speaker 1: you don't need me to tell you about this guy. 519 00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:41,880 Speaker 1: In two thousand ten, he said in an interview quote, 520 00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:44,800 Speaker 1: I think they should name it something better. The top 521 00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:47,600 Speaker 1: ends up flatter. But we're not talking about Mount Everest. 522 00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:50,560 Speaker 1: We're talking about these knobby little hills that are everywhere 523 00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:52,560 Speaker 1: out here. I don't think anyone's gonna be missing a 524 00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:56,440 Speaker 1: hill or two here and there. And that was ran Paul, 525 00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,160 Speaker 1: straight from the horse's mouth, and Chuck, I think that 526 00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:00,760 Speaker 1: you know as well as eye, people are going to 527 00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:03,440 Speaker 1: be like you guys are getting political. Stop being political. 528 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:06,360 Speaker 1: And I just I'm trying to figure out how to 529 00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:10,080 Speaker 1: frame a response to that, because this is Paul, this 530 00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:17,960 Speaker 1: is UM super political. It's above politics. It's basically incredibly 531 00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:24,440 Speaker 1: well financed UM industrial interests and average people who have 532 00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:28,920 Speaker 1: no money. That kind of UM dying, dying and getting sick. 533 00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:31,600 Speaker 1: That's not political. That's not the right or the left. 534 00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:35,560 Speaker 1: That's right or wrong. Basically, well said sir, we're talking 535 00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:39,120 Speaker 1: about UM an e P. A study estimated four hundred 536 00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:42,600 Speaker 1: thousand acres have been wiped out, and like we said, 537 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:45,720 Speaker 1: between seven hundred and a thousand miles of stream and 538 00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:48,400 Speaker 1: that was that those are the two thousand one number, 539 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:50,440 Speaker 1: so it's a lot higher by then, Well, do you 540 00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:53,640 Speaker 1: want to talk to Ben slowly? I do. I'm looking 541 00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:55,560 Speaker 1: to see if I have anything else. Oh you know what, 542 00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:59,520 Speaker 1: we should plug a couple of things, Um, Jonathan Franzen's 543 00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:02,720 Speaker 1: new novel Freedom. It's a big subplot mountaintop removal mining. Yeah, 544 00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:06,360 Speaker 1: I heard the TV show Justified. Have you ever seen it? 545 00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:10,400 Speaker 1: It's awesome. Timothy Oliphant season two has a big subplot 546 00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:13,800 Speaker 1: on mountaintop removal mining and all these things, you know, 547 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:17,360 Speaker 1: raise awareness on certain levels. The wild wonderful Whites of 548 00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:20,720 Speaker 1: West Virginia. What's that? It's a documentary you know, the 549 00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:23,360 Speaker 1: Dancing Outlaw. Oh yeah, yeah, so it's a follow up 550 00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:27,720 Speaker 1: that it's his family and they are crazy. It's actually 551 00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:31,160 Speaker 1: produced by Johnny Knoxville's production company. Really it's worth seeing. 552 00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:33,400 Speaker 1: So um. Ben will be in here in a second 553 00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:35,960 Speaker 1: to give us some more organizations. But if you want 554 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:39,080 Speaker 1: to just look into this little more, there are three 555 00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:42,040 Speaker 1: places that can recommend you go. One is I Love 556 00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:46,120 Speaker 1: Mountains dot org. Great place to start. There's a group 557 00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:49,720 Speaker 1: called the Mountain Justice Summer. There they are well organized. 558 00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:52,240 Speaker 1: I think they're the oldest one. Yeah, that's Mountain Justice 559 00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:56,480 Speaker 1: Summer dot org. And then um Appalachian Voices app Voices 560 00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:59,280 Speaker 1: dot org. Go to any of those websites, look up 561 00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:02,560 Speaker 1: some pictures, do your own research, see if it matters 562 00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:05,080 Speaker 1: to you or summer's coming up. And if you want 563 00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:08,520 Speaker 1: to go join the protest, they have them all over Appalachia. 564 00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:11,480 Speaker 1: If you've ever wanted to see a person with dreadlocks 565 00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:15,680 Speaker 1: in working in conjunction with the hillbilly, this is the 566 00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:18,600 Speaker 1: place to go. It's a good point. So chuck um, 567 00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:22,360 Speaker 1: let's let's pause a second here while we bring Ben 568 00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:36,640 Speaker 1: sol Okay, so we're back. It seemed like a brief 569 00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:38,840 Speaker 1: second to you, but it was about ten minutes thoughts 570 00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:41,440 Speaker 1: at least something like that. And in the studio for 571 00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:44,920 Speaker 1: our first ever musical guests, we have Mr Ben so Ley. 572 00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:48,640 Speaker 1: Welcome Ben, Hello, fellas. Ben is a singer, a songwriter, 573 00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:52,080 Speaker 1: and a cellist. Check he is a Kentucky native right 574 00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:56,160 Speaker 1: and he is a coal a mountaintop removal coal mining activists. 575 00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:59,719 Speaker 1: And in two thousand ten, Ben, you put out an 576 00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:02,800 Speaker 1: album Them on Subpop label, produced by Mr Jim James 577 00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:05,880 Speaker 1: of My Morning Jacket. It's true with Daniel Martin Moore 578 00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:08,480 Speaker 1: called Deer Companion, and it was a you call a 579 00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:10,960 Speaker 1: concept album or just a theme album. M that's a 580 00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:14,480 Speaker 1: good question. Um. Some folks referred to as a protest album. O. 581 00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:19,160 Speaker 1: Some folks referred to it as a album of of 582 00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:23,520 Speaker 1: umn issues based album. And we just kind of looked 583 00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:26,360 Speaker 1: at it as a tribute album to a really beautiful 584 00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:30,200 Speaker 1: part of the country and bringing that part of the 585 00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:32,880 Speaker 1: country and that sound and kind of our heritages Kentucky 586 00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:37,200 Speaker 1: musicians into like the urban context and mixing all that stuff. Well, 587 00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:38,960 Speaker 1: since that was one of my questions anyway, just tell 588 00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:40,759 Speaker 1: us a little bit more about that project. I now 589 00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:45,440 Speaker 1: did of the proceeds went to I Love Mountains dot org. Yeah, well, 590 00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:47,319 Speaker 1: I mean all of the proceeds that we would have 591 00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:50,680 Speaker 1: gotten as artists. Yeah, and in the record world, you know, 592 00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:52,759 Speaker 1: there's you get a portion of it from record sales 593 00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:57,879 Speaker 1: album went to dot org. No. Actually it was like 594 00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:00,920 Speaker 1: I mean, to be specific, it was thirteen point something 595 00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:03,560 Speaker 1: per cent the portion that we would have gotten his artists. 596 00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:07,480 Speaker 1: So we just donated that to Act Voices, Um. And 597 00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:10,920 Speaker 1: mostly because they run an amazing website and called I 598 00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:13,920 Speaker 1: Love Mountains dot org. And the goal of the record 599 00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:17,680 Speaker 1: was not to like protest anything or you know, necessarily 600 00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:20,160 Speaker 1: pick aside. It was more to like raise awareness being 601 00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:25,960 Speaker 1: catalysts for conversation exactly. So UM, in that way, we 602 00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:27,840 Speaker 1: wanted to support the thing that was we felt like 603 00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:29,960 Speaker 1: was one of the best things for a national conversation, 604 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:32,439 Speaker 1: which was the website where people can go and find 605 00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:35,680 Speaker 1: out how they're involved and what to do. How did 606 00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:39,319 Speaker 1: you get into UM Where did your desire to raise 607 00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:44,960 Speaker 1: awareness about MTR come from? UM? It's a good question. 608 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:48,480 Speaker 1: I think I think it all started with UMH an 609 00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:50,759 Speaker 1: author that read a story. And this guy's name is 610 00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:53,200 Speaker 1: Silas House. It's a well known author there in the 611 00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:58,680 Speaker 1: Kentucky Central part of America region. He's amazing writer. And 612 00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:00,520 Speaker 1: he came and read on a show that I was 613 00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:04,000 Speaker 1: doing this beautiful entry about a lady who had posted 614 00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:06,200 Speaker 1: herself up on this mountain side and she was not 615 00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:09,080 Speaker 1: going to allow the machines to kind of rip up 616 00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:11,000 Speaker 1: the land which had been in her family for years 617 00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:15,000 Speaker 1: and years, and that you know, it was a you know, 618 00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:17,000 Speaker 1: I had a lot of emotion and energy and the 619 00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:19,560 Speaker 1: writing that kind of spawned the thought of it, and 620 00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:21,399 Speaker 1: then more and more research. I was like, Wow, how 621 00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:23,680 Speaker 1: can this actually be going on America? How can people 622 00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:29,000 Speaker 1: actually I have to live without Basically there's a lot 623 00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:32,120 Speaker 1: of their civil rights to have like clean water, to 624 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:34,880 Speaker 1: be protected by their police, you know, all these things, 625 00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:37,719 Speaker 1: and so I wanted to help raise awareness for it. 626 00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:40,359 Speaker 1: But I'm a musician. What do you do? Like how 627 00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:43,759 Speaker 1: much can a song really change anything? Is always one 628 00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:47,120 Speaker 1: of these big dilemmas, especially a song of protest. Have 629 00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:51,359 Speaker 1: you heard Europe's Final Countdown? That changed everything for me? 630 00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:57,520 Speaker 1: You know the song I Do for You? I'm Gonna 631 00:36:57,520 --> 00:36:59,400 Speaker 1: Buy You That MP three is a better thing. Oh 632 00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:02,120 Speaker 1: that's sweet. Uh So tell us a little bit more 633 00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:05,200 Speaker 1: about Deer Companion and your work with Daniel Martin Moore 634 00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:08,240 Speaker 1: and Jim James and Subpop and how that was packaged. 635 00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:10,719 Speaker 1: I know that was very unique. It is unique. And 636 00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:14,400 Speaker 1: Subpop is a really amazing record label for even taking 637 00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:16,680 Speaker 1: the time to like look at putting this thing out. 638 00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:19,040 Speaker 1: And I think a big, big part of that is 639 00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:22,960 Speaker 1: because they started as a label that was based in 640 00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:25,560 Speaker 1: a community, like they started, you know, putting out the 641 00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:29,400 Speaker 1: punk rock music of Seattle, and they grew big and 642 00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:33,239 Speaker 1: they put out music and everything. Now, but this is 643 00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:35,160 Speaker 1: the way of reaching into a different community and being 644 00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:38,560 Speaker 1: part of a conversation. And in a lot of ways, 645 00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:42,359 Speaker 1: folk music kind of has that punk like against the 646 00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:46,319 Speaker 1: you know, against the common thing, the establishment, against the establishment, 647 00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:52,520 Speaker 1: the man, the man, whatever, the industry, and so I 648 00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:55,480 Speaker 1: think this really resonated with them, so they took the 649 00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:57,600 Speaker 1: time and energy put it out. Working with Daniel Martin 650 00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:01,520 Speaker 1: Moore was, um, he's a tall, all handsome crooner sort 651 00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:06,120 Speaker 1: of fella. He is, and he also lives in Kentucky 652 00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:09,360 Speaker 1: And before we even met, he was very active in 653 00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:11,359 Speaker 1: raising when it's been mountintop removal with a song called 654 00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:15,520 Speaker 1: fly Rock Blues, and fly rock kind of describes the 655 00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:20,359 Speaker 1: materials that fly off into the air when they mountain that, Yeah, 656 00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:22,759 Speaker 1: it's amazing stuff. I mean sometimes boulders as big as 657 00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:27,080 Speaker 1: houses go flying hundreds of yards. I mean it's amazing, 658 00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:31,840 Speaker 1: powerful explosive force and land in places way outside the 659 00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:36,880 Speaker 1: digging zone. So um, that and song inspired me to 660 00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:40,160 Speaker 1: work with him on this project. And then Jim James 661 00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:43,920 Speaker 1: came on board, also Kentucky native. Also Kentucky native, I 662 00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:45,600 Speaker 1: mean he had done a lot of work with Kentucky 663 00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:50,440 Speaker 1: for the Commonwealth, an organization there in Kentucky, and he 664 00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:53,239 Speaker 1: just was a great voice for being able to take 665 00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:56,880 Speaker 1: these influences of Appalachia, take our own songwriting, and also 666 00:38:57,239 --> 00:38:59,799 Speaker 1: bring him in with kind of the relevant indie rock, 667 00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:02,759 Speaker 1: this kind of sound that is associated with him and 668 00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:06,359 Speaker 1: My Morning Jacket. And quickly on the packaging to um 669 00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:09,040 Speaker 1: that was was there a map that was included or 670 00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:15,120 Speaker 1: there's a there's a beautiful picture of Appalachia. And what's 671 00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:17,279 Speaker 1: unique about the picture and the reason that we chose 672 00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:20,560 Speaker 1: it is not it's not some you know, long shot 673 00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:25,200 Speaker 1: landscape of the rolling mountains, old Appalachian fog. It's it's 674 00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:30,279 Speaker 1: not this idealized thing. It's simply a valley. It's this beautiful, 675 00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:34,560 Speaker 1: pristine valley. And that's really what the whole contention behind 676 00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:37,320 Speaker 1: this is. It's not really the absence of the mountaintops 677 00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:41,040 Speaker 1: that causes so much destruction. It's the filling in the 678 00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:44,000 Speaker 1: destruction of the valleys. These are the places that collect 679 00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:46,719 Speaker 1: our water, the headwaters that come down not only to 680 00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:49,360 Speaker 1: these Appalachian communities but also some of our major cities 681 00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:51,920 Speaker 1: on the East coast, and those waters are being polluted, 682 00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:54,280 Speaker 1: and the idea that we all live downstream from those 683 00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:58,440 Speaker 1: UM is a really provocative and and an idea that 684 00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:01,600 Speaker 1: we're all in this together. This is one big community, 685 00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:06,239 Speaker 1: from the groundwater being polluted to the electricity that runs 686 00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:08,520 Speaker 1: these light bulbs. Like, we're all kind of participating in 687 00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:11,640 Speaker 1: this thing. And it's very easy when we're participating in it, 688 00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:15,160 Speaker 1: turning on a light switch or charging our phone. Two 689 00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:18,839 Speaker 1: miss the idea, not that a mountain is blowing up. 690 00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:21,880 Speaker 1: That's too abstract. That's two out there. The idea that 691 00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:25,760 Speaker 1: people have to live with UM, that people make this power. 692 00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:28,319 Speaker 1: But people have to deal with the cold trucks, you know, 693 00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:29,840 Speaker 1: tearing up the roads. People have to deal with the 694 00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:32,360 Speaker 1: dust in the air and the shaking ground. People have 695 00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:35,120 Speaker 1: to deal with the loss of land values. Like there 696 00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:39,279 Speaker 1: are people that are living UM very hard lives to 697 00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:42,560 Speaker 1: make sure that we have these things. And I think 698 00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:46,080 Speaker 1: from a positive standpoint, we need to appreciate that more. 699 00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:49,319 Speaker 1: Not just protest them, not point our fingers and look 700 00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:52,520 Speaker 1: at them and say look at those poor people. Let's 701 00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:54,440 Speaker 1: say thank you in a lot of ways. And that's 702 00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:56,000 Speaker 1: what we try to do with your companion, was to 703 00:40:56,480 --> 00:41:01,000 Speaker 1: say thank you celebrate Appalachia as a landscape as part 704 00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:05,760 Speaker 1: of our American heritage. You know, everything from the fiddler chopped, 705 00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:08,400 Speaker 1: you know, the man beside his cabin chopping wood, or 706 00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:11,320 Speaker 1: the fiddler playing, by the guys dancing, like these American 707 00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:14,960 Speaker 1: things that have been turned into musicals and shows. They 708 00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:17,239 Speaker 1: all stem from these those pioneers that settled in these 709 00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:19,879 Speaker 1: mountains and and I just think it's such a huge 710 00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:24,279 Speaker 1: part of our heritage Americans, and it's just disappearing as 711 00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:27,360 Speaker 1: these communities they just they struggled to survive underneath the 712 00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:31,880 Speaker 1: climate of things being exploded and land being devalued and 713 00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:36,399 Speaker 1: water being polluted. It's hard for them to survive. It's 714 00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:40,120 Speaker 1: hard for communities two to even keep their footing when 715 00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:43,080 Speaker 1: all that's happening. So we're losing part of our American heritage. 716 00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:45,040 Speaker 1: And that's how it ties in with me as a musician. 717 00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:46,880 Speaker 1: That's how I found it tied in with me as 718 00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:50,279 Speaker 1: a musician. Awesome. And I want to point out Ben 719 00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:52,520 Speaker 1: as a guy who walks the walk. He did a 720 00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:55,279 Speaker 1: an entire tour, was it last year? On your bicycle? Well, yeah, 721 00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:57,880 Speaker 1: we've done three tours by bicycle. Man. I don't know 722 00:41:57,880 --> 00:41:59,480 Speaker 1: how many people are there ever tried to carry the 723 00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:02,399 Speaker 1: cello and bicycle, But this guy does it from town 724 00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:04,080 Speaker 1: to town. Believe it or not, there's four or five 725 00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:05,840 Speaker 1: cellist out there in the world that are that are 726 00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:09,400 Speaker 1: carrying their cellos on bicycle. It's something about you know, 727 00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:13,040 Speaker 1: people say cellist are extreme people. I don't think that. 728 00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:18,640 Speaker 1: But I just really got into this idea of not 729 00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:23,480 Speaker 1: being sustainable or being green, slowing down right, the idea 730 00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:25,320 Speaker 1: that I wanted to be more involved in these communities. 731 00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:30,000 Speaker 1: I felt this this unsettling feeling that I was coming 732 00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:32,319 Speaker 1: through these places, putting on a show, asking people about 733 00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:34,840 Speaker 1: the music, and then moving on to the next driving 734 00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:37,640 Speaker 1: eight to ten hours the next day sometimes to get 735 00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:39,520 Speaker 1: to some distant community where a promoter is willing to 736 00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:41,600 Speaker 1: put on put out money to put on a show. 737 00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:43,600 Speaker 1: It felt like a little bit of a fleecing thing 738 00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:46,719 Speaker 1: and somewhat dishonest in a lot of ways. It wasn't real, 739 00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:49,840 Speaker 1: and people romanticized it, but it wasn't really real. So 740 00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:53,600 Speaker 1: the idea of getting on a bicycle, slowing down, not 741 00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:55,319 Speaker 1: being able to roll up our windows or just stay 742 00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:58,279 Speaker 1: on the interstate and zoom pass the place. We had 743 00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:01,520 Speaker 1: to really ride through each community and be a part 744 00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:03,439 Speaker 1: of their town for at least a little bit. Yeah, 745 00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:05,719 Speaker 1: you notice, I've been riding my bike lately just for exercise, 746 00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:08,399 Speaker 1: and it's amazing how much more you notice just by 747 00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:11,120 Speaker 1: walking or riding a bike than when you're zipping past 748 00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:13,439 Speaker 1: in the car. The smells, the condition of the road 749 00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:18,360 Speaker 1: is a big one. Um the habits and nature of 750 00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:22,319 Speaker 1: other drivers out there. You notice how amazing it is 751 00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:25,200 Speaker 1: that we have thousands and thousands of pounds of machinery 752 00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:27,359 Speaker 1: that we can just hurtle down the highway. I mean, 753 00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:29,600 Speaker 1: for for better or worse. You just kind of notice 754 00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:32,920 Speaker 1: what what an extreme action that is. It feels we're 755 00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:35,040 Speaker 1: so used to it. But the idea that we can 756 00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:38,760 Speaker 1: hop on a highway and just push this machine, very heavy, 757 00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:41,960 Speaker 1: big machine, float it down the highway. You know, it's 758 00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:44,200 Speaker 1: kind of like you know, Arthur C. Clark or something. 759 00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:47,160 Speaker 1: It's just right out there. You don't take things for granted. 760 00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:51,560 Speaker 1: My friend, all right, Well, before we get involved with 761 00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:54,600 Speaker 1: the music, sticking around and playing as a song, I 762 00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:57,600 Speaker 1: would love to we we plug. I love mountains dot Org. 763 00:43:57,640 --> 00:43:59,399 Speaker 1: Is that a good place for people to start. It's 764 00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:01,560 Speaker 1: a great place for people will start especially because you can. 765 00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:03,160 Speaker 1: They have a tool on there where you can plug 766 00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:07,279 Speaker 1: in your zip code and see what portion of your 767 00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:10,200 Speaker 1: power is coming from coalts and not only that, you 768 00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:13,200 Speaker 1: can see where that coal is coming from. Yeah, it's 769 00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:15,359 Speaker 1: a great website. I love mountains that are it's cool, 770 00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:18,879 Speaker 1: not cold, that's cold. So the song we're gonna hear 771 00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:23,560 Speaker 1: just called electrified, and it is from Mr. Soli's forthcoming album, 772 00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:27,600 Speaker 1: which should be dropping right now, and it's called Inclusions. 773 00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:43,480 Speaker 1: So it's here. The trees far electrified, the streets are electrified, 774 00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:55,080 Speaker 1: your eats are electrified. My voice was electriffive. Your heart 775 00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:58,399 Speaker 1: is unsteady. They can make a feat in time. Your 776 00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:02,880 Speaker 1: mind is confused, it will be clarified, your own fashioned. 777 00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:09,160 Speaker 1: You will be modernized. Every Thing is electrified. If the 778 00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:21,759 Speaker 1: thing is electrified. If you lost in the jungle, used 779 00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:25,400 Speaker 1: the satellite, you're broke in the city, sneak on the 780 00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:30,000 Speaker 1: bus line, you lost your job because it was mechanized. 781 00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:33,440 Speaker 1: They said we have to compete when the markets gooblized. 782 00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:41,799 Speaker 1: Every thing is electrified. Every thing is electrified. Every thing 783 00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:54,400 Speaker 1: is electrified. Lie with my bare hand touched the base 784 00:45:54,440 --> 00:46:00,719 Speaker 1: of your spine. Feel you shuddering glow moved like a 785 00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:09,200 Speaker 1: swallow and I'm hypnotop. Every things electric file. Everything's aled 786 00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:44,200 Speaker 1: to file. Things electrify. Some folks are heroes, others maybe vilified. 787 00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:49,360 Speaker 1: Assess your lawsuit has learned to diversify. Find your higher 788 00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:55,920 Speaker 1: callings than evangelize, build your congregation. Now you're televised. Every 789 00:46:56,120 --> 00:47:02,719 Speaker 1: thing's electrified. Everything is a ACTU five. Yeah, and the 790 00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:38,280 Speaker 1: things electrified, the thing electure five. Man, that was awesome. 791 00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:40,400 Speaker 1: That was very cool, so cool. And those you know 792 00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:42,560 Speaker 1: you heard clapping. We have people all over the office 793 00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:44,719 Speaker 1: here that wanted to come in and here. Yeah, I 794 00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:47,360 Speaker 1: have something else. Uh. So you can see Ben Solely 795 00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:50,799 Speaker 1: on tour. He's on tour right now, and he is 796 00:47:50,840 --> 00:47:55,440 Speaker 1: all over the place. I'm looking Boston, New York, Philly, Chicago, St. Louis, 797 00:47:55,680 --> 00:47:59,160 Speaker 1: I mean, back through Kentucky, down through the South. Go 798 00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:03,000 Speaker 1: see Ben so Lee on tour through the end of June. 799 00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:05,319 Speaker 1: You can find that at his website. Yeah. You can 800 00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:08,879 Speaker 1: also learn all about mining and energy by typing either 801 00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:10,800 Speaker 1: one of those words in the search part. How stuff 802 00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:12,960 Speaker 1: works dot com, which is not sure your listener mail 803 00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:16,040 Speaker 1: this time. Instead, you shoot us an email if you 804 00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:17,960 Speaker 1: want to drop us a line. Yeah, and hey, if 805 00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:20,080 Speaker 1: you go see Benslely onto work, go up to him 806 00:48:20,120 --> 00:48:21,719 Speaker 1: and talk to him. He's a very nice guy and 807 00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:23,520 Speaker 1: tell him that your buddies with us. He's a very 808 00:48:23,560 --> 00:48:25,839 Speaker 1: good guy. Anyway. If you want to get in touch 809 00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:29,520 Speaker 1: with us, send us an email to Stuff Podcast at 810 00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:38,360 Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com for more on this and 811 00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:40,600 Speaker 1: thousands of other topics. VI is it how stuff works 812 00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:43,319 Speaker 1: dot com. To learn more about the podcast, click on 813 00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:46,280 Speaker 1: the podcast icon in the upper right corner of our homepage. 814 00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:49,759 Speaker 1: The how Stuff Works iPhone app has arrived. Download it 815 00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:55,600 Speaker 1: today on iTunes. Brought to you by the reinvented two 816 00:48:55,640 --> 00:48:58,160 Speaker 1: thousand twelve camera. It's ready, are you