1
00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,720
Speaker 1: Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I am Matt,

2
00:00:03,720 --> 00:00:06,200
Speaker 1: and today we're asking the question who wants to be

3
00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:07,160
Speaker 1: a Millionaire?

4
00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:28,960
Speaker 2: So I just tried to do my best game show

5
00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:31,480
Speaker 2: host voice? Did it? Show didn't come through you? The

6
00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:34,159
Speaker 2: next Drew carry Oh? Oh am, I is that the

7
00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:36,080
Speaker 2: price is right? That's right? So I was first thinking

8
00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:39,000
Speaker 2: about He also hosted whose line is it? Anyway? O? Yeah?

9
00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:41,120
Speaker 2: Did you? And before him somebody else? I forgot he

10
00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:43,760
Speaker 2: used to be the old host. Wasn't there somebody else

11
00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:47,680
Speaker 2: barker on prices? No, I'm thinking of the improv. Oh okay,

12
00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:49,760
Speaker 2: did you watch a lot of game shows growing up?

13
00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:52,200
Speaker 2: I know you did the Prices right? You talked about

14
00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:53,400
Speaker 2: how I used to watch it with your grandma.

15
00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:55,560
Speaker 1: A right, I watched some. I definitely. I mean, Who

16
00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:56,480
Speaker 1: Wants to Be a Millionaire?

17
00:00:56,720 --> 00:00:57,360
Speaker 2: Was classic?

18
00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:00,960
Speaker 1: Well, that was a cultural moment, and I'm not sure

19
00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:02,720
Speaker 1: if people a whole lot younger than us to remember

20
00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:04,400
Speaker 1: it because the show came out in what like ninety nine,

21
00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:06,520
Speaker 1: late nineties, early two thousand, but for a few years,

22
00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:09,119
Speaker 1: like millions of people, oh yeah, like tens of millions

23
00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:11,840
Speaker 1: of people probably were tuned into Regis Philbin hosting Who

24
00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:12,679
Speaker 1: Wants to Be a Millionaire?

25
00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:13,520
Speaker 2: Every what?

26
00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:15,120
Speaker 1: I don't know, a couple nights a week. They they

27
00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:16,399
Speaker 1: even made it, and like, was.

28
00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:18,880
Speaker 2: That the last great American game show where everybody was

29
00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:21,040
Speaker 2: watching before the networks? Because after that, I think it

30
00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:24,080
Speaker 2: was all network based and everybody created their own game

31
00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:26,720
Speaker 2: shows and things split off from there. But it kind

32
00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:28,640
Speaker 2: of felt like when folks would sit down and I'll

33
00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:30,800
Speaker 2: watch the same news programs together. This is like a

34
00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:33,680
Speaker 2: last game show where folks did that. But yeah, I

35
00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:36,440
Speaker 2: never never really got into it. I love game shows,

36
00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:38,200
Speaker 2: so I really do. I think they're fine. And so

37
00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:40,480
Speaker 2: Top Chef is that technically a game show? Yeah, I

38
00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:44,560
Speaker 2: think they're competing. It's like that kind Tom Kalikio, Gail Simmons,

39
00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:46,680
Speaker 2: Hugh Ash isn't like all those judges, those are those

40
00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:49,920
Speaker 2: are my people? Okay I used to. I probably watched

41
00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:53,600
Speaker 2: more seasons of Top Chef than any other program other

42
00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:55,400
Speaker 2: than maybe The Office.

43
00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:57,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, scrubs. The whole point of this show, by the way,

44
00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:00,280
Speaker 1: is not to wear monochromatic suits and ties. We just

45
00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:02,440
Speaker 1: feel it needs to do. Uh he rests in peace.

46
00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:04,640
Speaker 1: But it really is to talk about, like if you

47
00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:06,640
Speaker 1: want to become a millionaire, Like how do you get there?

48
00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:08,880
Speaker 1: But also like is that a good goal to have?

49
00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:12,720
Speaker 1: And there are different, uh inputs that we see all

50
00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:15,240
Speaker 1: the time in financial media about how much we're supposed

51
00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:17,000
Speaker 1: to be saving and investing for the future, and I

52
00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:19,840
Speaker 1: think so right, it can be off putting and downright demoralizing.

53
00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:22,400
Speaker 1: So how much do you actually need or of kind

54
00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:24,440
Speaker 1: of give a framework for that in regards to how

55
00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:27,079
Speaker 1: much you should be looking to garner in a nest

56
00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:29,400
Speaker 1: egg for retirement. That's that's kind of what this episode

57
00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:29,840
Speaker 1: is all about.

58
00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:32,639
Speaker 2: Did you ever listen? Okay, one last question, one last reference.

59
00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:35,000
Speaker 2: I need a phone a friend. No, I was gonna

60
00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:37,440
Speaker 2: the Bare Naked Ladies if I had a million dollars.

61
00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:40,160
Speaker 2: Do you remember that song I did back? Yeah, they're

62
00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:44,320
Speaker 2: more known for one week one week.

63
00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:49,120
Speaker 1: The nineties music still still rocks men still pretty good. Yeah,

64
00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:51,239
Speaker 1: But Matt, real quick before we get to the kind

65
00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:53,720
Speaker 1: of millionaire discussion that we want to have the actual

66
00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:56,400
Speaker 1: meat Yeah, episode just I wanted to quickly mention that

67
00:02:56,480 --> 00:03:00,440
Speaker 1: listener Silas actually created a an Excel spreadshee, So we

68
00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:03,440
Speaker 1: had another listener actually create a spreadsheet for the beers

69
00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:06,079
Speaker 1: that we've had on the show that will also put

70
00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:08,160
Speaker 1: in the show notes. But Silas he just made a

71
00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:11,760
Speaker 1: new Excel spreadsheet about literally all the How To Money

72
00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:15,160
Speaker 1: episodes and he's categorized them so that you can easily

73
00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:18,160
Speaker 1: find if you're like looking for an episode on transportation

74
00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:21,360
Speaker 1: or cars or on investing or saving or whatever, you

75
00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:23,360
Speaker 1: can just kind of look through there and filter there

76
00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:26,240
Speaker 1: and see which episodes fall under that category. So big

77
00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:28,919
Speaker 1: thanks to Silas for making that, and hopefully it should

78
00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:30,640
Speaker 1: help listeners who are trying to either find a past

79
00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:33,480
Speaker 1: episode they found maybe helpful, or who are new to

80
00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:36,040
Speaker 1: How the Money and they're kind of trying to figure out, like, well, okay,

81
00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:37,640
Speaker 1: but I need help with this, where do I go

82
00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:40,200
Speaker 1: to get the Because we have like a ridiculous catalog

83
00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:43,520
Speaker 1: at this point of what's six hundred and fifty plus episodes,

84
00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:45,760
Speaker 1: it can be hard to sort through, So big thanks

85
00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:47,320
Speaker 1: to Silas for making that a little bit easier for

86
00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:48,200
Speaker 1: a lot of folks out there.

87
00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:49,800
Speaker 2: That's right, And maybe one of these days we'll have

88
00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:53,720
Speaker 2: an ultimate spreadsheet that combines Beer and the Money topics

89
00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:57,080
Speaker 2: by category and buy ABV waight and.

90
00:03:57,040 --> 00:03:59,760
Speaker 1: Style of beer and by how long your hair was

91
00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:00,800
Speaker 1: time of recording too.

92
00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:04,280
Speaker 2: Let's quickly introduce the beer that you and I are

93
00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:06,680
Speaker 2: going to enjoy during this episode. This was a double clutch.

94
00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:10,000
Speaker 2: This is a nitro oatmeal stout. This one is by

95
00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:14,880
Speaker 2: Gruner Brothers Brewing again sent to us by Katie so Silas,

96
00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:18,000
Speaker 2: thank you and Katie thank you. Yeah, this episode could

97
00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:19,960
Speaker 2: not have happened without the help of both of y'all.

98
00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:21,880
Speaker 1: Yes, thank you so much. All right, but let's get

99
00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:24,160
Speaker 1: into it. Matt, who wants to be a millionaire? And

100
00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:26,520
Speaker 1: when we're contemplating this topic, it made me think for

101
00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:30,320
Speaker 1: some reason, of Sherlock Holmes, who is a literary character

102
00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:32,440
Speaker 1: of high esteem. We've all heard of this guy. Part

103
00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:34,560
Speaker 1: of him, Yeah, most death. He saws mysteries, and I

104
00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:37,640
Speaker 1: feel like the I still remember in the hospital. I

105
00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:40,160
Speaker 1: think we were having our first child. Emily and I

106
00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:44,000
Speaker 1: watched the Benedict Cumberbat Sherlock Holmes series, which was really

107
00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:46,480
Speaker 1: really good. That was like what, yeah, like while Emily

108
00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:49,520
Speaker 1: was in labor. It was like pre labor, like getting ready.

109
00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:52,279
Speaker 2: I don't think she now she hates Benedett, right, I

110
00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:53,799
Speaker 2: can't watch any of his movies exactly.

111
00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:55,440
Speaker 1: Sorry, Minutedict I'm sure you're a nice guy.

112
00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:55,800
Speaker 2: Well.

113
00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:58,240
Speaker 1: The cool thing though about like Sherlock Holmes is that

114
00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:02,560
Speaker 1: he uses inductive reasons to solve his cases. He begins

115
00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:06,480
Speaker 1: with observations which propel him in the search for the truth,

116
00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:08,960
Speaker 1: and so deductive reasoning, on the other hand, begins with

117
00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:12,640
Speaker 1: a hypothesis and then uses facts that you accumulate along

118
00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:14,440
Speaker 1: the way in order to confirm a theory. But when

119
00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:16,720
Speaker 1: we're talking about how much we need in retirement and

120
00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:18,680
Speaker 1: if a million dollars is actually going to be enough,

121
00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:21,440
Speaker 1: you and I would say that the Holmes the end

122
00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:24,280
Speaker 1: approach is most helpful. Taking that Sherlock Holmes approach and

123
00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:28,360
Speaker 1: do some observing and then start asking some questions based

124
00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:30,880
Speaker 1: on what you can observe, and hopefully this endeavor helps

125
00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:33,159
Speaker 1: you gain a better understanding of what your goal should

126
00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:36,080
Speaker 1: be and how they're going to influence your actions. Now

127
00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:41,040
Speaker 1: I think it's starting from that randomly concocted end goal. Actually,

128
00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:43,120
Speaker 1: it does this a disservice really, when we're trying to

129
00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:45,320
Speaker 1: figure out what we should be saving for retirement.

130
00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:47,120
Speaker 2: That's true. Yeah, And by the way, were you a

131
00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:50,400
Speaker 2: fan of the Robert Downing junior version of Oh yeah,

132
00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:51,880
Speaker 2: you put out that she Shirlock. Now, that was a great

133
00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:53,279
Speaker 2: one like that one, because I feel like it was

134
00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:56,400
Speaker 2: way more action based, as you know, he's like jumping

135
00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:58,680
Speaker 2: out of buildings into the rivers and canals or whatever.

136
00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:01,160
Speaker 1: Guy Ritchie, that was like probably the last great thing

137
00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:02,400
Speaker 1: he did, right, I forgot.

138
00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:04,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's why I like that one man. He made

139
00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:06,400
Speaker 2: so many good films earlier on the string of hits. Yeah.

140
00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:08,800
Speaker 2: But so basically, when it comes to investing, if you

141
00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:12,159
Speaker 2: haven't started investing yet, you might be seeing some headlines

142
00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:13,680
Speaker 2: out there right that say that you need to have

143
00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:16,160
Speaker 2: a ton of money set aside in order to quit

144
00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:19,080
Speaker 2: your job in order to actually retire someday. A recent

145
00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:22,400
Speaker 2: article from Fortune magazine, they basically said that the quote

146
00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:25,320
Speaker 2: unquote experts that they don't believe that a million dollars

147
00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:28,279
Speaker 2: is enough that you actually need to have closer to

148
00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:31,880
Speaker 2: two million. Technically one point nine million dollars set aside,

149
00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:34,920
Speaker 2: which is that's a ton. And like when you are

150
00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:37,840
Speaker 2: faced with that much like that sort of headline number,

151
00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:40,360
Speaker 2: I think it can feel defeating, right, Like, sometimes these

152
00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:43,760
Speaker 2: stories they can do more harm than good. Instead of

153
00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:46,360
Speaker 2: encouraging someone to get their act together, they actually might

154
00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:48,840
Speaker 2: think that they're just a total lost cause, that it's

155
00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:50,919
Speaker 2: hopeless and they're gonna maybe just end up throwing in

156
00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:51,240
Speaker 2: the towel.

157
00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:53,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like, if you've barely started and you see that

158
00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:54,360
Speaker 1: headline number, you just.

159
00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:57,400
Speaker 2: Say screw it by end up winning the lottery.

160
00:06:57,160 --> 00:06:58,920
Speaker 1: What's the point, Yes, exactly. I think it does kind

161
00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:01,000
Speaker 1: of encourage that lottery mental to a certain extent.

162
00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:03,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you know, we're going to dispel some myths

163
00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:06,520
Speaker 2: today and we're going to explain how retiring with enough

164
00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:09,119
Speaker 2: money on hand is actually more attainable than you think.

165
00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:11,600
Speaker 2: And we're going to talk about how, you know, hitting

166
00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:13,600
Speaker 2: that one million dollar mark, which, by the way, it

167
00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:17,160
Speaker 2: actually might be more than enough, but even still, how

168
00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:20,680
Speaker 2: it isn't impossible when you have decades of time to

169
00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:23,120
Speaker 2: get there, When you've got time on your side, in particular,

170
00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:24,960
Speaker 2: it is very achievable.

171
00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:27,120
Speaker 1: I like how you mentioned the lottery thing, because it

172
00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:29,720
Speaker 1: is true. I think a lot of people in you

173
00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:32,680
Speaker 1: think of people who buy lottery tickets as making a

174
00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:37,880
Speaker 1: horrendous mistake. And it is true that you're very, very very.

175
00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:39,160
Speaker 2: Unlikely to win the lottery. Right.

176
00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:41,400
Speaker 1: The odds are heavily stacked against you, and a lot

177
00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:43,720
Speaker 1: of people spend way too much money on lottery tickets,

178
00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:46,600
Speaker 1: inhibiting their ability to grow wealth. But some people in

179
00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:48,760
Speaker 1: some of the most impoverished communities, it feels like that's

180
00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:51,680
Speaker 1: their only way out is to win the lottery and

181
00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:53,920
Speaker 1: not buy investing readily because they see headlines like this,

182
00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:56,040
Speaker 1: I think, and it leads them to believe, well, there's

183
00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:58,960
Speaker 1: no way that my you know, fifty bucks a month

184
00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:00,880
Speaker 1: is actually that which which is all I can stomach

185
00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:03,000
Speaker 1: to invest, is actually going to get me here. Sure,

186
00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:05,680
Speaker 1: And it's completely demoralizing, and I think it does actually

187
00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:08,680
Speaker 1: lead to some of those more risky approaches to wealth

188
00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:11,920
Speaker 1: building because they just don't think this is for them,

189
00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:14,160
Speaker 1: which I get, like, yeah, it makes sense, yea.

190
00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:16,640
Speaker 2: They're quite literally going for broke because to them that

191
00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:19,600
Speaker 2: seems like the most logical path forward as opposed to

192
00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:23,560
Speaker 2: amassing this impossibly gigantic number. Yeah.

193
00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:26,440
Speaker 1: And there might be another subset of folks, though, maybe

194
00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:29,040
Speaker 1: on the opposite end of the spectrum, who are further

195
00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:32,160
Speaker 1: along in their financial journey. You know, maybe you're listening

196
00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:34,240
Speaker 1: and you do have close to seven figures in the bank,

197
00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:38,080
Speaker 1: and maybe you're still only in your mid thirties, which

198
00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:40,959
Speaker 1: is amazing. Yeah, you've done the case. You've done a

199
00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:41,480
Speaker 1: lot of hard work.

200
00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:41,880
Speaker 2: Good for you.

201
00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:45,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so you're crushing it. But even some of

202
00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:47,400
Speaker 1: those folks, they might be under the impression, Matt, that

203
00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:50,160
Speaker 1: they need a whole lot more invested in order to

204
00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:52,280
Speaker 1: comfortably retire. They might have done a whole lot of

205
00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:55,079
Speaker 1: heavy lifting already, but they might say, I've still got

206
00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:57,280
Speaker 1: decades of hard work ahead of me. They might fall

207
00:08:57,360 --> 00:08:59,880
Speaker 1: victim to that one more year syndrome, which kind of

208
00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:02,559
Speaker 1: seems to never end. You keep kicking, you keep kicking

209
00:09:02,559 --> 00:09:04,640
Speaker 1: the can down the road. And so building wealth and

210
00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:07,400
Speaker 1: then feeling comfortable enough to slow down and enjoy some

211
00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:09,559
Speaker 1: of what you've been able to amass. That requires two

212
00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:12,120
Speaker 1: different skill sets. And so for those folks, we want

213
00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:14,240
Speaker 1: to hopefully ease your mind a little too, you know,

214
00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:16,440
Speaker 1: helping you to see that it's possible to overdo it,

215
00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:21,319
Speaker 1: and that it is possible to overplan, to oversave, to overinvest,

216
00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:24,800
Speaker 1: and to overwork, creating a different kind of financial imbalance.

217
00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:26,920
Speaker 2: That's it. It's hard to overcome, that's true. Yeah, And

218
00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:29,400
Speaker 2: so there's a recent survey as well found that more

219
00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:32,640
Speaker 2: than seven and ten investors. They say that they need

220
00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:35,360
Speaker 2: between three and five million dollars on hand in order

221
00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:37,880
Speaker 2: to be able to retire with ease, And you know,

222
00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:40,760
Speaker 2: that's an even more daunting task than just saving up

223
00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:44,040
Speaker 2: a cool mill. But so much of these responses are

224
00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:47,560
Speaker 2: based on feelings, they're not actually based on facts, and

225
00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:50,960
Speaker 2: personal finances are so individual, they're so complex that it

226
00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:52,959
Speaker 2: is hard to come up with us just a simple

227
00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:56,040
Speaker 2: formula to help everyone out there to know exactly, you know,

228
00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:58,480
Speaker 2: what they need to save in order to retire comfortably.

229
00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:00,960
Speaker 2: But we want to do our best to give you

230
00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:04,160
Speaker 2: some guide posts so that you better understand what it

231
00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:06,520
Speaker 2: is that you should be shooting for. Is it a million?

232
00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:08,800
Speaker 2: Maybe that's the right amount for some folks out there,

233
00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:12,120
Speaker 2: but others might really want to sock away multiple millions

234
00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:14,880
Speaker 2: of dollars. And I think others can easily do retirement

235
00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:17,880
Speaker 2: well on a six figure nest egg. It all depends

236
00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:20,160
Speaker 2: on a number of factors, and we'll be diving into

237
00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:21,080
Speaker 2: that during this episode.

238
00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:22,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, I wish there was a calculator that kind of

239
00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:24,920
Speaker 1: knew some of that future for you, Like, hey, you're

240
00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:26,959
Speaker 1: probably gonna encounter these health issues and guess what, you know,

241
00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:29,040
Speaker 1: you're probably going to live to the rifled age of

242
00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:31,559
Speaker 1: ninety one or so. If you knew some of those

243
00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:33,520
Speaker 1: things and you could plug those into a calculator, you

244
00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:36,080
Speaker 1: can more easily understand exactly how much you need to save.

245
00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:39,480
Speaker 1: But we don't have a horoscope, right or is that

246
00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:41,559
Speaker 1: a horoscope? Is that what that yeah, okay tells you

247
00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:44,160
Speaker 1: the future? Or yeah, what's going to happen based on yeah,

248
00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:46,040
Speaker 1: not that you're born in. I haven't had my tarot

249
00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:48,560
Speaker 1: cards read recently, and so I don't know what's going

250
00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:50,680
Speaker 1: to happen in the future. And because of that, we

251
00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:52,960
Speaker 1: have to make kind of some educated guesses, and we

252
00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:56,120
Speaker 1: have to make sure that we're sacrificing enough for our

253
00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:58,720
Speaker 1: future selves. But we're also trying to strike that balance

254
00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:01,720
Speaker 1: constantly while we're doing it right. And let's talk about

255
00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:03,920
Speaker 1: let's dig into a little bit of data here, Matt.

256
00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:06,200
Speaker 1: We've talked about a couple of headline numbers that some

257
00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:08,360
Speaker 1: people assume they need to have or the experts say

258
00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:10,960
Speaker 1: they need to have, and so that can actually, I think,

259
00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:13,959
Speaker 1: inhibit people's ability or desire to start saving. And he

260
00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:16,040
Speaker 1: talked about some headlines were talked about some surveys but

261
00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:17,800
Speaker 1: what are the facts, Joel, All right, let's talk about

262
00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:19,880
Speaker 1: the facts. So it might be helpful and reassuring to

263
00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:24,440
Speaker 1: look at the data about how much Americans actually have saved,

264
00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:26,640
Speaker 1: like what they have in their four to one k's

265
00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:30,280
Speaker 1: right now, and so the average overall balance inside of

266
00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:32,760
Speaker 1: four O one K accounts is just a hair over

267
00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:36,280
Speaker 1: one hundred thousand dollars. But then when we're talking about retirement,

268
00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:38,320
Speaker 1: those people should have more money, right than just the

269
00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:40,360
Speaker 1: average four O one K account balance. And so the

270
00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:44,160
Speaker 1: average person who is sixty five years or over has

271
00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:48,360
Speaker 1: two hundred and eighty thousand dollars in their retirement accounts.

272
00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:51,319
Speaker 1: This is according to Vanguard. The facts on the ground

273
00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:54,040
Speaker 1: really fly in the face of some of these numbers

274
00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:56,640
Speaker 1: that we've cited already. Like to say that you need

275
00:11:56,920 --> 00:11:59,959
Speaker 1: a million dollars to retire, or one point nine million

276
00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:02,600
Speaker 1: dollars like the experts say, or like the feeling that

277
00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:05,120
Speaker 1: those people have, say I need three to five million

278
00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:09,160
Speaker 1: in order to retire comfortably, Well, it almost feels ridiculous

279
00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:12,360
Speaker 1: because so many people are able to get by in retirement.

280
00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:14,160
Speaker 1: Maybe they're not taking like.

281
00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:16,920
Speaker 2: That goes contrary to what millions of people are actually

282
00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:17,600
Speaker 2: doing right now.

283
00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:20,320
Speaker 1: So these people have not even high six figures, right, Like,

284
00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:22,760
Speaker 1: we're talking two hundred and eighty thousand dollars on average.

285
00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:25,160
Speaker 1: That's what a lot of folks are retiring with, and

286
00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:27,240
Speaker 1: they are able to make ends meet. Maybe they're not

287
00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:30,360
Speaker 1: taking like cruises on the Danube three times a year. Maybe,

288
00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:33,600
Speaker 1: you know, maybe they're not taking private jets to Tahiti.

289
00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:33,880
Speaker 2: I don't.

290
00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:36,040
Speaker 1: I mean, these are the kind of sacrifices that people

291
00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:38,480
Speaker 1: make when they don't have millions and millions of dollars

292
00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:41,480
Speaker 1: in their retirement accounts when they retire, but they're still

293
00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:44,720
Speaker 1: able to live. Many of these folks a lovely existence

294
00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:47,920
Speaker 1: on a whole lot less than a nest egg of

295
00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:51,520
Speaker 1: multimillions that a lot of people just assume they have

296
00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:52,200
Speaker 1: to have saved up.

297
00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:54,240
Speaker 2: So, you know, it seems that there's like something of

298
00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:57,680
Speaker 2: a disconnect between the amounts that Americans have invested versus

299
00:12:57,679 --> 00:12:59,920
Speaker 2: the amounts that they think that they that they need.

300
00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:01,920
Speaker 2: And you know, we're not gonna spend much time on

301
00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:05,360
Speaker 2: happiness here, but I wonder how much of a factor

302
00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:09,520
Speaker 2: this dissonance plays in happiness and life satisfaction. You just

303
00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:13,559
Speaker 2: mentioned like the euro river boat cruises. It makes nice.

304
00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:15,240
Speaker 2: I've never been on one. When you look at the

305
00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:17,800
Speaker 2: list of the world's happiest countries, dude, there are about

306
00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:21,760
Speaker 2: a dozen European countries that rank higher than the US.

307
00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:24,800
Speaker 2: And I'm not sure if it's a coincidence or not,

308
00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:27,839
Speaker 2: but a much higher percentage of Americans believe that they

309
00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:30,880
Speaker 2: need to have a lot more like a ton, more

310
00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:34,600
Speaker 2: than just a million dollars set aside than Europeans think.

311
00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:37,160
Speaker 2: It's almost as if we've set our standards too high.

312
00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:40,240
Speaker 2: It almost as if we've doomed ourselves to failure. So

313
00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:41,960
Speaker 2: of course you're gonna have a country full of folks

314
00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:45,800
Speaker 2: who are significantly less happy than their European counterparts, if

315
00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:48,880
Speaker 2: they feel like they are constantly missing the mark, if

316
00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:51,720
Speaker 2: they feel like that they are regularly coming up short

317
00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:54,560
Speaker 2: in a certain way. I wonder if the different expectations

318
00:13:54,559 --> 00:13:56,840
Speaker 2: that we've set for ourselves as a country, how that

319
00:13:56,960 --> 00:13:59,840
Speaker 2: might that right there, might be actually leading us to

320
00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:02,480
Speaker 2: have just lower levels of satisfaction and happiness.

321
00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:05,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think when you have this visceral feeling that

322
00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:07,400
Speaker 1: you're behind the eight ball all the time, and I

323
00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:09,720
Speaker 1: think that's the way a lot of Americans feel and

324
00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:11,520
Speaker 1: I think it means for a lot of people that

325
00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:15,319
Speaker 1: their expectations are too high. And I don't know what

326
00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:17,920
Speaker 1: makes people feel like they need four or five million

327
00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:20,680
Speaker 1: dollars in order to be able to retire with ease

328
00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:23,600
Speaker 1: when a whole lot of people are doing it well

329
00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:26,920
Speaker 1: with a whole lot less. Maybe it's the comparison game

330
00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:28,160
Speaker 1: that we are apt to play.

331
00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:32,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe they don't. Yeah, cribs, you know, that's what

332
00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:33,720
Speaker 2: gets the whole thing off, right, Yeah.

333
00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:35,600
Speaker 1: Was that exhibit hosting that back of the day or

334
00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:37,000
Speaker 1: is he doing the pit my ride?

335
00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:38,720
Speaker 2: I don't know he did. I think it did.

336
00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:41,400
Speaker 1: Okay, if you want all the fancy stuff in retirement,

337
00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:42,680
Speaker 1: then this is how much you're going to need to

338
00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:46,000
Speaker 1: save up. But the truth is it's not that extreme.

339
00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:49,080
Speaker 1: And I do think you're right that having lower expectations

340
00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:52,840
Speaker 1: is going to lead to less consternation around how much

341
00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:54,800
Speaker 1: we need to actually save for retirement. And I think

342
00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:58,240
Speaker 1: we can be happier saving less, enjoying more of the

343
00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:01,640
Speaker 1: day to day and not feeling as overwhel about creating

344
00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:05,880
Speaker 1: some massive, multimillion dollar nest egg. But it's also hard

345
00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:08,280
Speaker 1: to figure out exactly how much you need to save

346
00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:11,280
Speaker 1: and so next we're going to talk about wide variety

347
00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:13,480
Speaker 1: of factors that will influence how you think about how

348
00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:16,400
Speaker 1: much you need to have saved up, including debt and inflation,

349
00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:19,960
Speaker 1: which has changed the dynamic for a lot of retirees.

350
00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:22,800
Speaker 1: We'll get to our thoughts on those fronts right after this.

351
00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:34,040
Speaker 2: All right, we are back from the break, and we're

352
00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:36,479
Speaker 2: going to get to I guess, more of the practical

353
00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:39,680
Speaker 2: application side of our episode here in a little bit.

354
00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:42,520
Speaker 2: But first we wanted to spend a minute talking about

355
00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:44,320
Speaker 2: just mindset and how it is that we should be

356
00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:47,200
Speaker 2: thinking about wealth and having enough. And so a question

357
00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:49,600
Speaker 2: you might be asking yourself is whether or not you

358
00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:53,240
Speaker 2: even need to hit millionaire status, because that's going to

359
00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:55,160
Speaker 2: depend on a number of different factors out there that

360
00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:57,440
Speaker 2: we're going to get into now. Because if you are

361
00:15:57,480 --> 00:15:59,600
Speaker 2: in your early twenties, I think it might be easy

362
00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:02,040
Speaker 2: to think that you won't need that much, or that

363
00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:05,680
Speaker 2: the fairly inexpensive lifestyle that you're able to happily live now,

364
00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:08,680
Speaker 2: that it's going to suit you well, you know, thirty, forty,

365
00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:11,040
Speaker 2: even fifty years down the road. But the truth is

366
00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:14,480
Speaker 2: that might not be the case. Things might cost more

367
00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:17,040
Speaker 2: money or I guess not things, but just what your

368
00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:19,640
Speaker 2: life looks like might evolve over time.

369
00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:22,000
Speaker 1: Because you're less into the hostile and you might want

370
00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:24,280
Speaker 1: a hotel room instead, and you know what that is,

371
00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:26,080
Speaker 1: what my own room. I think that is one of

372
00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:29,520
Speaker 1: those changes in expectations that is normal and okay, and

373
00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:31,440
Speaker 1: I think it's yeah, I don't have any problem. I

374
00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:33,200
Speaker 1: think it's kind of cool when people in their fifties

375
00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:35,240
Speaker 1: or sixties still want to do the hostile lifestyle. More

376
00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:36,960
Speaker 1: power to you, But there's a lot of people who

377
00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:39,280
Speaker 1: their expectations do change a little bit over time, and

378
00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:42,240
Speaker 1: I think there's a difference between those expectation changes and

379
00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:42,840
Speaker 1: lifestyle creed.

380
00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:45,760
Speaker 2: I think that's the biggest argument against that. Economists that

381
00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:49,040
Speaker 2: put out the consumption smoothing model where he was talking about, oh, no,

382
00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:51,160
Speaker 2: you're going to consume a lot, like, go ahead and

383
00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:53,760
Speaker 2: consume more relative to how much you are able to

384
00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:56,360
Speaker 2: make and invest early on, and then you're just going

385
00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:58,760
Speaker 2: to maintain that over time, because I think it's really

386
00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:00,880
Speaker 2: tough to maintain that as you get older. There are

387
00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:03,280
Speaker 2: certain things that you're not willing to partake in, that

388
00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:05,560
Speaker 2: you're not willing to participate in in order to just

389
00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:06,720
Speaker 2: simply save a buck.

390
00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:08,280
Speaker 1: Can I look back to those ways in which I

391
00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:10,280
Speaker 1: was hyper frugal back in the day, And I'm glad

392
00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:12,480
Speaker 1: I didn't inflate, not only because it helped me to

393
00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:13,920
Speaker 1: save more, but because it felt.

394
00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:15,280
Speaker 2: Like it would have gotten too out of hand. Right. Yeah,

395
00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:17,680
Speaker 2: I like that I had like a runaway trained.

396
00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:18,639
Speaker 1: I like that I had to do it on a

397
00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:21,840
Speaker 1: shoestring budget when I was you know, nineteen twenty twenty one. Yep,

398
00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:25,199
Speaker 1: that I was finding free places to stay. That I was,

399
00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:27,520
Speaker 1: you know, trying to do it as inexpensively as possible.

400
00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:29,480
Speaker 1: I saw it as a game. And now it's kind

401
00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:32,720
Speaker 1: of nice that I can afford to ramp up my

402
00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:34,119
Speaker 1: lifestyle at least a little bit. You know, I'm not

403
00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:36,440
Speaker 1: going out of hand, but yeah, I'm glad I didn't

404
00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:36,920
Speaker 1: do it back then.

405
00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:38,879
Speaker 2: And so I mean that's like lifestyle from like a

406
00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:42,119
Speaker 2: just how you're spending maybe additional money. But even like

407
00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:44,280
Speaker 2: you and I man, like we're frugal dads, and even

408
00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:46,199
Speaker 2: still we found that life gets more expensive as you

409
00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:49,399
Speaker 2: have kids. Sure, and you know we're not doing private

410
00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:52,080
Speaker 2: island vacations with our family or anything like that, not yet.

411
00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:55,760
Speaker 2: But we're also not finding the absolute cheapest option on

412
00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:58,840
Speaker 2: everything when it comes to our family and our kids.

413
00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:01,359
Speaker 1: Not CouchSurfing anymore, Matt, even though I did back in

414
00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:03,520
Speaker 1: the day, Well, definitely, it'd be hard to do that

415
00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:07,000
Speaker 1: with your kids, and so I'm not sure how well

416
00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:09,000
Speaker 1: that would fly with the folks that you would visit.

417
00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:11,920
Speaker 1: But bottom line, I think just giving yourself a certain

418
00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:14,280
Speaker 1: amount of wiggle room, just a certain amount of margin

419
00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:16,560
Speaker 1: for air as you plan and save for the future,

420
00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:18,640
Speaker 1: that that's really important. And that's sometimes in the fire

421
00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:21,440
Speaker 1: movement it's just blame and we'll talk about specific numbers

422
00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:23,560
Speaker 1: in a little bit, but it's twenty five extra expensives

423
00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:26,200
Speaker 1: and it's like your expensive today or your expensive further

424
00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:27,800
Speaker 1: down the road, because they might not be the same,

425
00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:29,760
Speaker 1: and so you have to take that into consideration. I

426
00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:32,199
Speaker 1: think something else it's important to mention here is a

427
00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:35,480
Speaker 1: higher saving rate has multiple benefits. It's not only that

428
00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:38,399
Speaker 1: you're able to stock away more money, specifically hopefully into

429
00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:41,720
Speaker 1: those retirement accounts, letting that money compound for you for

430
00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:44,680
Speaker 1: years and decades, but it also means that you have

431
00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:50,680
Speaker 1: a lower amount of monthly outgoing funds. You basically have

432
00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:54,560
Speaker 1: less to fund for retirement if you're keeping your budget

433
00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:57,760
Speaker 1: more in check. And call me conservative Matt, but there's

434
00:18:57,760 --> 00:19:00,840
Speaker 1: something comforting I would say about save a bit more

435
00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:03,680
Speaker 1: than you think you're going to need, leaving yourself more

436
00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:06,520
Speaker 1: margin and the ability to change your mind on things.

437
00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:09,840
Speaker 1: And so you know this likely means exceeding the savings

438
00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:12,439
Speaker 1: rate that you might think you need in order to

439
00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:16,359
Speaker 1: garner yourself more cushion. Because maybe yeah, just mentioned fire.

440
00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:18,600
Speaker 1: Maybe you discovered the fire movement five years ago and

441
00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:21,000
Speaker 1: you quickly calculated some back of the napkin math and

442
00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:23,680
Speaker 1: you determined, Hey, I only need three hundred thousand dollars

443
00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:26,160
Speaker 1: set aside to quit my day job because my expenses

444
00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:28,840
Speaker 1: are so infinitesimally small. I want to go for that

445
00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:31,800
Speaker 1: lean fire because I live in my mom's basement and

446
00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:32,560
Speaker 1: that's all I need.

447
00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:35,520
Speaker 2: Fire. By the way, financial independence retire early, yeah, is

448
00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:36,119
Speaker 2: what that stands for.

449
00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:37,440
Speaker 1: Well, let's say your mom says I don't want you

450
00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:39,280
Speaker 1: in this basement any longer. I'm kicking you out. Well,

451
00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:41,199
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, your expenses go up, and so

452
00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:44,919
Speaker 1: yeah has and even if you discovered a five years ago,

453
00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:48,440
Speaker 1: your life is already probably a change since that inflection point.

454
00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:50,960
Speaker 1: And my guess is in the last five years, with

455
00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:53,760
Speaker 1: the reality of inflation, but maybe even just the reality

456
00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:56,119
Speaker 1: of the fact that you want different things out of life,

457
00:19:56,359 --> 00:19:59,240
Speaker 1: the amount that you need to save has changed. Maybe

458
00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:01,400
Speaker 1: you've gotten married to maybe you bought a house, maybe

459
00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:02,879
Speaker 1: you had a couple of kids, and if so, I

460
00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:05,640
Speaker 1: can pretty much guarantee that will look like a lot

461
00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:07,760
Speaker 1: to you five or ten years ago just isn't going

462
00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:09,479
Speaker 1: to cut it today. And so you know, I think

463
00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:11,159
Speaker 1: we want to set up those both ends of the

464
00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:13,680
Speaker 1: spectrum maat that some people tell you you need five

465
00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:16,280
Speaker 1: million dollars to retire, or a lot of people think

466
00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:18,640
Speaker 1: that that's not true. But then other people think, I'm

467
00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:20,800
Speaker 1: going to be able to retire with four hundred k

468
00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:23,080
Speaker 1: in the bank at the ripe old age of forty two.

469
00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:25,480
Speaker 1: And that might be a bit naive as well.

470
00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:27,360
Speaker 2: It might be pulled the trigger a little too soon

471
00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:29,840
Speaker 2: for you to do that, But that's totally dude. When

472
00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:33,040
Speaker 2: Kate and I first discovered fire, that's essentially our story.

473
00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:35,920
Speaker 2: We did some math while we were in the car

474
00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:38,640
Speaker 2: and we were like, oh, man, based on these projections,

475
00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:40,720
Speaker 2: we're going to be able to retire in five years.

476
00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:42,400
Speaker 2: I loved that it was car math that you did.

477
00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:44,760
Speaker 2: Oh okay, we're just sitting in the car talking having

478
00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:47,400
Speaker 2: it numbers a discussion. We were all the way job.

479
00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:49,480
Speaker 2: We were on the way to a photography job. And

480
00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:52,320
Speaker 2: I still remember that conversation that we had as we

481
00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:55,600
Speaker 2: talked about Downton Abbey, because because they were that's how

482
00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:57,680
Speaker 2: they were able to They're living off the estate, living

483
00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:00,280
Speaker 2: off the fat of the land. But yeah, as you

484
00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:03,080
Speaker 2: get older, your responsibility like you basically you just gain

485
00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:06,160
Speaker 2: more responsibilities and oftentimes you are You've got other folks

486
00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:08,760
Speaker 2: in particular that are counting on you to be able

487
00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:11,280
Speaker 2: to not be selfish and to be able to work

488
00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:13,240
Speaker 2: hard and to earn money. Yeah, and you know, I

489
00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:15,240
Speaker 2: think it's also worth thinking ahead a little as well,

490
00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:18,280
Speaker 2: and just thinking through maybe how much debt you might

491
00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:20,920
Speaker 2: still have hanging around once you are ready to quit work,

492
00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:24,120
Speaker 2: because if you still have a mortgage, well, if you've

493
00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:26,720
Speaker 2: got a crazy low rate and maybe you are still

494
00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:30,240
Speaker 2: able to earn more just a plain ole savings account,

495
00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:32,000
Speaker 2: well that's not necessarily going to be a bad thing

496
00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:34,479
Speaker 2: to still have a low rate mortgage. But if you've

497
00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:37,879
Speaker 2: got high interest rate credit card debts. Well, that's gonna

498
00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:40,919
Speaker 2: certainly change the dynamics. And you know, you've still got

499
00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:43,360
Speaker 2: student loans hanging around. That's another thing that a lot

500
00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:45,399
Speaker 2: of people are finding that. Yeah, especially people, and there

501
00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:47,399
Speaker 2: are more people in retirement now with student loans than

502
00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:49,760
Speaker 2: ever before. Yeah. Yeah, and you mentioned inflation as well.

503
00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:52,000
Speaker 2: Don't forget the fact that just the costs of basic

504
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:54,720
Speaker 2: goods and services are constantly changing. You know, we've seen

505
00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:58,520
Speaker 2: costs skyrocket over the past couple of years. Nobody would

506
00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:00,360
Speaker 2: have ever guessed that we were going to to see

507
00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:03,600
Speaker 2: inflation numbers nearing double digits, and so planning for the

508
00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:07,199
Speaker 2: future it involves projecting, even though it's impossible to be

509
00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:10,720
Speaker 2: one hundred percent accurate about what our future is actually

510
00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:14,119
Speaker 2: going to hold. Again, this is when having some additional paddings,

511
00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:17,359
Speaker 2: some of that additional margin that's gonna really come in handy.

512
00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:20,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm all about some extra cushion, extra margin, oftentimes

513
00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:22,320
Speaker 1: even just for kind of what it does for you

514
00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:23,679
Speaker 1: from a mental perspective, like.

515
00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:25,280
Speaker 2: Take some of that stress off me.

516
00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:27,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like what if the market does, you know,

517
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:30,000
Speaker 1: underperform for a little while, or what if my you know,

518
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:32,879
Speaker 1: costs do exceed when I thought they were going to exceed.

519
00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:35,480
Speaker 1: Having that extra cushion means you don't have to freak out.

520
00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:38,040
Speaker 2: What if I graduate from craft beer to fancy wine

521
00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:40,920
Speaker 2: and I am taking private jets to Island's jowel, right,

522
00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:42,240
Speaker 2: I know, I mean I need a little bit of

523
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:44,080
Speaker 2: money in the bank. It's going to masterly change how

524
00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:45,879
Speaker 2: much you need to say, that's for sure. And so

525
00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:48,240
Speaker 2: there's part of us Matt that wants to air on

526
00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:51,159
Speaker 2: the side of having more just in case. But I

527
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:53,359
Speaker 2: will say this too, We also think that a majority

528
00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:56,680
Speaker 2: of Americans probably don't need to have as much socked

529
00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:59,239
Speaker 2: away as they think, especially when we're talk about those

530
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:00,760
Speaker 2: people who think they need to read a five million

531
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:03,040
Speaker 2: And I would say a lot of people are more

532
00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:04,520
Speaker 2: in touch with the lifestyles of the rich and the

533
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:08,359
Speaker 2: famous than we are our own actual desires, right, And

534
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:11,760
Speaker 2: so we kind of see the I'm just reading a

535
00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:15,200
Speaker 2: story the other day about influencers not just renting time

536
00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:17,240
Speaker 2: on a private jet to take a picture, but literally

537
00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:19,000
Speaker 2: rooms that make it look like you're on a private

538
00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:21,120
Speaker 2: jet in order to take a picture. Oh, I've seen

539
00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:24,960
Speaker 2: that there's like a first class cockpit. Yes, somewhere that

540
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:26,480
Speaker 2: you can go and rent side of that where you

541
00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:29,399
Speaker 2: can take selfies, and it only fuels so dumb. I

542
00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:32,159
Speaker 2: think the desire for everyday ordinary people to say I

543
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:34,359
Speaker 2: need that, even though what that is it's fake. It

544
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:37,120
Speaker 2: feels that unhappiness. Yeah, going back to what we're talking

545
00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:37,840
Speaker 2: about before.

546
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:39,160
Speaker 1: And then it feels that like I think I need

547
00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:42,399
Speaker 1: more than I actually do, and the increases perpetual, just

548
00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:46,520
Speaker 1: devastating cycle for people. Yes, but like what lifestyle do

549
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:48,000
Speaker 1: you expect to live in retirement? I think that's a

550
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:50,400
Speaker 1: good question for us to be to be asking ourselves,

551
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:52,639
Speaker 1: Like and you and I were, neither of us are

552
00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:56,400
Speaker 1: about trying to be filthy rich, and that private jet

553
00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,200
Speaker 1: lifestyle just has no appeal to either one of us.

554
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:02,359
Speaker 1: But really stickly thinking through what expenses you're likely to

555
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:04,560
Speaker 1: have when you do stop working, I think is important.

556
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:06,280
Speaker 1: If you're the kind of person who's more inclined to

557
00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:08,879
Speaker 1: go on hikes, to volunteer, to hang out with maybe

558
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:11,800
Speaker 1: grandkids or something like that, you probably don't need as

559
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:13,840
Speaker 1: large of a nest egg as someone else who wants

560
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:17,960
Speaker 1: to travel extravagantly like hit every continence and you know

561
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:20,800
Speaker 1: or wants to move to a beachfront of state. Those

562
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:23,080
Speaker 1: are different calculations that we have to make. So if

563
00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:25,480
Speaker 1: you can need less, if you can be content with

564
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:29,520
Speaker 1: having fewer things and not making those big, opulent purchases,

565
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:32,160
Speaker 1: it of course extends directly to how much you're going

566
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:34,200
Speaker 1: to actually need to have saved up for your future.

567
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:36,119
Speaker 2: Yeah. Actually, so on that note, I think it's important

568
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:40,439
Speaker 2: to mention that being a millionaire, it often really doesn't

569
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:42,760
Speaker 2: look that impressive. In fact, I think you'd be hard

570
00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:46,080
Speaker 2: pressed to recognize an actual millionaire most of the time

571
00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:48,560
Speaker 2: because they don't advertise it with the things that they

572
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:50,520
Speaker 2: buy or the things that they wear, you know, the

573
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:52,879
Speaker 2: things that they're consuming. They often just look like your

574
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:55,880
Speaker 2: average middle class individual, but they are living that stealth

575
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:58,239
Speaker 2: wealth lifestyle that we actually talked about this back in

576
00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:01,679
Speaker 2: episode six point fifty. But there's just a massive difference

577
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:06,040
Speaker 2: between lifestyle creep and intentionally choosing to spend more money

578
00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:07,520
Speaker 2: as you get older. It makes me think back to

579
00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:11,040
Speaker 2: our conversation with Jesse. He's the founder of Why Nab

580
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:14,040
Speaker 2: You Need a Budget, and he talked about as I

581
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:17,240
Speaker 2: think his splurge was going to be some nice leather boots,

582
00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:21,560
Speaker 2: and he also talked about working in his woodshop, not

583
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:24,160
Speaker 2: necessarily because it is making him money, not because it's

584
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 2: a side hustle, but because it's just something that he

585
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:29,640
Speaker 2: simply enjoys. It's something that he is willing to pour

586
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:33,879
Speaker 2: more resources into, even though from a financial standpoint doesn't

587
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:34,960
Speaker 2: really make a whole lot of sense.

588
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:37,200
Speaker 1: Well, he also said it wasn't lifestyle creep to move

589
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:38,840
Speaker 1: out of that crummy apartment that they were in that

590
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:40,400
Speaker 1: had mole growing in the corners or whatever.

591
00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:40,879
Speaker 2: That's right.

592
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 1: That was literally just a choice that they made, and

593
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:46,040
Speaker 1: as their income grew, they had the ability to choose

594
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:50,040
Speaker 1: something different, and it wasn't a bad idea to get

595
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:51,880
Speaker 1: the heck out of there, especially with how many kids

596
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:53,000
Speaker 1: they had. I'm sure they handed out there.

597
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:55,520
Speaker 2: But you can still retain that frugal nature. You can

598
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:58,479
Speaker 2: still continue to save and invest your money, even if

599
00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:01,320
Speaker 2: you spend more in a particular area that's going to

600
00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:02,359
Speaker 2: be more important to you.

601
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:04,640
Speaker 1: And I think as you get older, as your nest

602
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:07,440
Speaker 1: egg grows, the calculation that you have to make when

603
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:10,800
Speaker 1: you're making bigger purchases change. It changes, and it actually

604
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:13,680
Speaker 1: it gets easier to spend in certain ways. I think

605
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:15,520
Speaker 1: I was talking. I had a conversation with a friend recently.

606
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:18,000
Speaker 1: He went to a concert, Matt, they had twenty dollars

607
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:21,040
Speaker 1: peers twenty dollars for a local craft beer. And this

608
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 1: is in California, where everything's more expensive. But it just

609
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:25,800
Speaker 1: made me think, Like, when I was in my twenties,

610
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:27,800
Speaker 1: there's no way I would have allowed myself to spend

611
00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:29,760
Speaker 1: that much. I knew that I needed to be investing

612
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 1: more and more. I am now thirty nine, and I

613
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:33,760
Speaker 1: enjoy a craft beer, and so if I'm out of

614
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:37,639
Speaker 1: a show, I might allow myself one get one maybe,

615
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:39,720
Speaker 1: but even at twenty bucks, Like it hurts my heart

616
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:42,120
Speaker 1: to kind of pour that much into a one time

617
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:43,000
Speaker 1: beverage while we're out.

618
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 2: That's true. Yeah. So I think another problem, too, is

619
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:48,080
Speaker 2: just the way that our country views retirement, because oftentimes

620
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 2: I think it's presented as like either this black or

621
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 2: white thing, like you are either working as hard as

622
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:56,960
Speaker 2: you possibly can or you're retired and you're doing nothing.

623
00:26:57,200 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 2: But we just think that that's a false dichotomy and

624
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:03,000
Speaker 2: that there are other good options out there. So, like,

625
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:05,600
Speaker 2: consider how happy you might be just by dialing back

626
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:07,639
Speaker 2: at work A little bit but still earning a paycheck

627
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:10,199
Speaker 2: where you're still like you still haven't earned income. It

628
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:12,919
Speaker 2: comes down to how it is that folks view what

629
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:14,600
Speaker 2: a lot of folks call retirement.

630
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:17,720
Speaker 1: Which is still, as we've talked about, a relatively new phenomenon. Like,

631
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:21,280
Speaker 1: it's not like retirement has been around forever, so we've.

632
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 2: Certainly gotten used to it. Yeah, but over the past

633
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:24,680
Speaker 2: fifty years, when we've.

634
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:27,119
Speaker 1: Created a really dialed in definition of it, that doesn't

635
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:29,399
Speaker 1: necessarily have to be the case. In all likelihood, it

636
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,080
Speaker 1: shouldn't be the case. It's actually probably a bad definition, I.

637
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:34,040
Speaker 2: Think, so. Yeah, And so essentially what we're talking about

638
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:37,119
Speaker 2: here is transitioning from working a whole lot to just

639
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:40,199
Speaker 2: working a little bit less, as opposed to going like

640
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:42,800
Speaker 2: quitting work cold turkey. And I think this makes sense

641
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 2: from a financial standpoint, right, because you're able to like

642
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 2: gradually come down from that income. But this also makes

643
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:52,159
Speaker 2: sense from like what your days are going to look

644
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:54,840
Speaker 2: like perspective as well, because I think it's just so

645
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:58,439
Speaker 2: hard to imagine going from working fifty plus hours a

646
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:00,919
Speaker 2: week like a lot of Americans are, to sitting around

647
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,280
Speaker 2: doing like who knows what. And that's because we're a

648
00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:06,520
Speaker 2: society of specialists. I mean not just in the US,

649
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 2: but I think a lot of countries are taking this path.

650
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:11,280
Speaker 2: A lot of us are really good at our jobs,

651
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:14,160
Speaker 2: and because of that, it's the main focus. And unfortunately

652
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 2: we just haven't put much effort into developing our other

653
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:21,840
Speaker 2: interests that make life rewarding and then make retirement rewarding too. Yeah,

654
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:24,399
Speaker 2: and I think we need to intentionally cultivate and to

655
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:27,680
Speaker 2: essentially design, like in our minds that like this can

656
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:29,880
Speaker 2: either be a mental exercise or like just I guess

657
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:33,000
Speaker 2: literally writing it out or living it out on the weekend,

658
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:35,200
Speaker 2: like what could this look like? Because it's I think

659
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:36,960
Speaker 2: that maybe that's the difference. Maybe that's the problem is

660
00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 2: that folks they go Monday through Friday and they're working hard, hard, hard,

661
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:42,680
Speaker 2: and it's crazy, and then on Saturdays and Sundays they

662
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 2: go crazy watching sports and they're thinking, well, I don't

663
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:47,920
Speaker 2: want to do that like seven days of the week,

664
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:50,200
Speaker 2: and so instead, like because it is sort of a

665
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:52,800
Speaker 2: black and white thing, maybe it would be helpful to

666
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:56,280
Speaker 2: actually map out, to design what your life would actually

667
00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:58,240
Speaker 2: look like. And I think that as a society that's

668
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 2: something we could do more of as well, is to

669
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:02,760
Speaker 2: find ways to cultivate and foster some of those other

670
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:04,120
Speaker 2: interests outside of our work.

671
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, having other things than work that make you tick

672
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:08,480
Speaker 1: is important the whole way through life. But when you

673
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 1: get through retirement, if you don't have those things, boy,

674
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:12,600
Speaker 1: it makes retirement a whole lot more difficult.

675
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 2: I think. Yeah.

676
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 1: I think that's why a lot of people do go

677
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 1: back to work because they're like, retirement was boring. I

678
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:19,640
Speaker 1: don't think it has to be. Like I really think

679
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 1: if we're a little more intentional about cultivating some of

680
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 1: those hobbies, some of those interests along the way, we

681
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 1: don't have to be scared by retirement. I think it

682
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:28,480
Speaker 1: can be a good thing. We can lean into it

683
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:31,920
Speaker 1: really really nicely. But yeah, that all to nothing, that

684
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:35,600
Speaker 1: cold turkey, like you said, I think is understandably scary

685
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:38,480
Speaker 1: for a lot of people who aren't quite prepared. And

686
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:41,760
Speaker 1: let's talk about autonomy as well, Matt, because I think

687
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 1: it's important to mention that retirement can be It's not

688
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:47,720
Speaker 1: this all or nothing thing, and it can be kind

689
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:49,960
Speaker 1: of more of a choose your own adventure and choose

690
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 1: how you approach it. And our listeners and everyone out

691
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 1: there is more in control of their future than they

692
00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 1: might feel like they are in the moment. And so

693
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 1: when it comes to DIALO in how much you need

694
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:04,520
Speaker 1: to save and invest for retirement, well, you have the

695
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:07,480
Speaker 1: ability to change a lot of factors in what retirement

696
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 1: is going to cost you. So, for instance, just because

697
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:12,200
Speaker 1: you live in a high cost of living state at

698
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:14,520
Speaker 1: the moment, it doesn't mean that you'll need to stay

699
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:16,360
Speaker 1: there when you reach retirement age. If you live in

700
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:19,200
Speaker 1: California right now, that doesn't mean you have to stay

701
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 1: there when you reach retirement age. Some states don't tax

702
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 1: your retirement income at all, and that may make an

703
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:28,160
Speaker 1: influence I might influence you about where you decide to live.

704
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 1: You might opt to stay close and not move anywhere

705
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:33,160
Speaker 1: because family and community are important to you and those

706
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:35,880
Speaker 1: you don't want to move away, even though it's not

707
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 1: necessarily the cheapest place to live. But the more flexible

708
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:40,520
Speaker 1: you can be, the more likely it is that you

709
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:42,640
Speaker 1: won't even need a million dollars in that four to

710
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 1: one K when you retire. And so if you're willing

711
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:47,800
Speaker 1: to make significant changes like moving to another state or

712
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:50,560
Speaker 1: maybe moving to another country altogether, you're going to find

713
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 1: that your nest egg is going to be able to

714
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 1: stretch much further than your current expenses might lead you

715
00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:58,520
Speaker 1: to believe. It's vastly different thing to retire in Hawaii

716
00:30:58,520 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 1: than it is in Mississippi, Matt when you look at

717
00:30:59,920 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 1: the numbers, like I think some recent status just came

718
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:02,200
Speaker 1: out about that, and.

719
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 2: It might even feel like a different country moving from

720
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 2: Hawaii to Alabama.

721
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:08,720
Speaker 1: They're very different places, very different places. But on top

722
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:12,080
Speaker 1: of that, you might move to choose to move to Thailand, Panama, Columbia,

723
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:16,479
Speaker 1: some of these really inexpensive places for expats where your

724
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 1: dollar goes even further. Maybe you're wanting to live that

725
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:22,400
Speaker 1: Caribbean lifestyle, but do it at a fraction of the cost,

726
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:24,240
Speaker 1: and that means you won't have to save or invest

727
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 1: nearly as much either. There are other decisions you can

728
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 1: make in that kind of choose your own adventure, dial

729
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 1: in how much you need for retirement scenario. But I

730
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 1: think about like the cost of living and where you

731
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:36,479
Speaker 1: choose to live in retirement makes a massive difference. If

732
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 1: you're able to even like sell a home that's worth

733
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:42,240
Speaker 1: eight hundred thousand dollars and then you rent a little

734
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:45,520
Speaker 1: beat shack in Panama for twelve hundred a month. Just

735
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 1: think about how long you can last even without having

736
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:49,760
Speaker 1: saved and invested much at all.

737
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:51,760
Speaker 2: That's true, and you're just touching on location, right. I

738
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 2: think there are so many other things we also have

739
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:56,320
Speaker 2: control over, just like the going back to designing your

740
00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:58,320
Speaker 2: life and the different hobbies that you might want to pursue.

741
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:00,239
Speaker 2: Heads up, if you're going to get into goalf, it's

742
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:01,600
Speaker 2: probably gonna cost you a lot of money, and so

743
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 2: you have control over whether or not that that's something

744
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 2: you pursue. I was joking about getting into fancy wines

745
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 2: a second ago, but this is a part of the

746
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 2: reason why I actually have intentionally avoided. I feel like

747
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 2: I've put blinders on when it comes to nicer wines

748
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 2: because when I do have a nicer wine, I really

749
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 2: like it, and I don't want to learn more about

750
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:21,480
Speaker 2: it because if I get really into it, it's going

751
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 2: to be something that I'm afraid I'm going to find

752
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 2: myself pursuing even more.

753
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:27,240
Speaker 1: And you can choose to pretend they don't exist. Literally,

754
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 1: I absolutely do.

755
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:30,640
Speaker 2: I'm still willing to buy a decent bottle that's on

756
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 2: sale there at Costco. But there are a lot of

757
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 2: different things that we have control over, and I think

758
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:37,440
Speaker 2: it's important to remind ourselves of that as we are

759
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 2: thinking ahead to our future. But we've discussed basically how

760
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:44,160
Speaker 2: it is we should be thinking about retirement and how

761
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 2: much money we should be setting aside for the future.

762
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 2: But we're gonna dive into some of the practical steps.

763
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 2: We're gonna get into some of the nuts and bolts.

764
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:54,520
Speaker 2: That way you can legitimately determine how much it is

765
00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 2: that you're going to need to set aside for retirement.

766
00:32:56,600 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 1: We'll get to that right after this. All right, now,

767
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:10,440
Speaker 1: let's keep going. Let's talk about becoming a millionaire, whether

768
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:12,160
Speaker 1: or not that's a good goal. It is for some,

769
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:14,320
Speaker 1: it's not for others. So people do need to save

770
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:16,720
Speaker 1: up three to five million if you're going to live

771
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 1: that lavish retirement lifestyle that you've been dreaming of. But

772
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:22,400
Speaker 1: other people need a whole lot less. But we've talked

773
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:24,800
Speaker 1: about the need for flexibility. Makes me think of my

774
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:26,480
Speaker 1: mother in law who said, you know what we want

775
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:28,600
Speaker 1: to do. We want to retire and get in an RB.

776
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:30,760
Speaker 1: They bought the RB, they lived in it for six months,

777
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 1: and they said, we hate this thing. And they had

778
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:35,640
Speaker 1: to ditch it. And so you don't know really what

779
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:38,120
Speaker 1: your retirement lifestyle is going to look like until you

780
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:40,280
Speaker 1: get there. So you have to plan kind I think

781
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, yeah, may not. And you've got a

782
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:45,920
Speaker 1: plan for kind of a multitude of potential circumstances. But

783
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 1: let's now talk about kind of some of the practical steps.

784
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:50,480
Speaker 1: Even though there's a lot of unknown when it comes

785
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:53,600
Speaker 1: to planning for our retirement future, some of the practical

786
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 1: steps to get to the end goal that makes the

787
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:59,200
Speaker 1: most sense for you. And so we would say, first,

788
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:03,400
Speaker 1: calculate how much you might need, and I stress might

789
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:06,160
Speaker 1: because there are still so many unknowns, like we've talked

790
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 1: about already, instead of throwing in the towel because three

791
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:11,799
Speaker 1: point nine million feels like an impossible goal, or just

792
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 1: saving as much as humanly possible, even though you wish

793
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:16,640
Speaker 1: you could be spending a bit more. In the here

794
00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:20,160
Speaker 1: and now, use some math to your advantage. So use

795
00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:24,000
Speaker 1: data to help you understand what your actual needs are

796
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:26,920
Speaker 1: likely to be. And I mentioned this briefly earlier, and

797
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:29,800
Speaker 1: I talked about how it's an imperfect calculation, but twenty

798
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:33,920
Speaker 1: five x your likely annual expenses gets you a decent

799
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:37,760
Speaker 1: understanding of what you should likely be shooting for. And again,

800
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:40,800
Speaker 1: because of inflation, because of time, a variety of factors,

801
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:43,600
Speaker 1: the fact that it's hard to predict what our outgoing

802
00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:46,040
Speaker 1: expenses are going to be every single month with accuracy,

803
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:48,239
Speaker 1: especially when we're talking about thirty years down the road.

804
00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:52,040
Speaker 1: It is imperfect, but it is helpful. So, for example,

805
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:55,120
Speaker 1: let's say you're spending thirty five thousand dollars a year

806
00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:58,560
Speaker 1: as a family annually right now, because you're hyper frugal, Well,

807
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:01,400
Speaker 1: you might want to say, what if it was sixty

808
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 1: thousand dollars by the time we get to retirement. Sixty

809
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:07,040
Speaker 1: thousand dollars times twenty five gives you one point five

810
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:09,359
Speaker 1: million dollars. Maybe that's the number you need to be

811
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:12,080
Speaker 1: shooting for. I think it's at least a good rule

812
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:14,279
Speaker 1: of thumb. Then it's a good starting point, that's right.

813
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:16,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so the twenty five times rule, it's based

814
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:19,319
Speaker 2: on the safe withdrawal rate of four percent. And we're

815
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,239
Speaker 2: not going to dive into like the research and all

816
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:24,520
Speaker 2: the studies that this is based, but just know that

817
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:26,840
Speaker 2: the twenty five x rule that is based on the

818
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:30,200
Speaker 2: safe withdrawal rates of four percent. And a practice that

819
00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:32,920
Speaker 2: we would recommend is for you to track your net worth.

820
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:34,800
Speaker 2: If this is not something that you're already doing. We

821
00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:38,640
Speaker 2: talked about this back in episode to fifty seven. And also,

822
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 2: your net worth is not going to go up like

823
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:44,680
Speaker 2: clockwork every single year, but the general trend should be

824
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:46,880
Speaker 2: up into the right. By the way, don't start to

825
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:49,839
Speaker 2: think that your personal worth is tied up in your

826
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:52,799
Speaker 2: actual net worth and how much money you have. That's

827
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:55,360
Speaker 2: that's a bit ridiculous. But do add up your assets,

828
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:57,840
Speaker 2: add up your liabilities, and do the math to figure

829
00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:00,800
Speaker 2: out your net worth on an annual or a semi

830
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:04,319
Speaker 2: annual basis. You can do this either manually or you

831
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:07,080
Speaker 2: can check out in power that was it used to

832
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:09,520
Speaker 2: be called personal capital, but that's another great way to

833
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:12,919
Speaker 2: automatically track that. But it is just a great way

834
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:14,879
Speaker 2: to follow your progress and to see how you're doing

835
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:18,960
Speaker 2: over time, because it's amazing. How maybe it's not amazing. Actually,

836
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:21,600
Speaker 2: maybe it's discouraging. How it can feel like you're moving

837
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:24,320
Speaker 2: just at a snail's pace, How you're just moving inches

838
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:27,120
Speaker 2: in those first few years, but then it feels like

839
00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:29,880
Speaker 2: you're moving feet at a time. Maybe after a decade

840
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:33,120
Speaker 2: too much bigger strides. I can't imagine what it'll look like,

841
00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:34,480
Speaker 2: you know, for us, like when we get to be

842
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:37,240
Speaker 2: warm Buffet's age and by the way, the vast majority

843
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:40,840
Speaker 2: of his wealth it's come after retirement age thanks to

844
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:44,000
Speaker 2: the power of compounding returns. And so hopefully when you

845
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:45,840
Speaker 2: calculate how much you need to have set aside in

846
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:48,480
Speaker 2: your portfolio to retire, right you multiplied your annual expenses

847
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 2: by twenty five in order to figure out that dollar amount,

848
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:54,920
Speaker 2: hopefully you are encouraged. But even still, I think there

849
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:57,799
Speaker 2: might be some individuals who might be slightly discouraged because

850
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:01,440
Speaker 2: it still feels like this massive sum of money. But

851
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 2: I just touched on compounding returns, and what I want

852
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:06,400
Speaker 2: to highlight here is that because you might be saying yourself,

853
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:08,440
Speaker 2: there's no way I'm going to be able to close

854
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:10,440
Speaker 2: that gap. This is how much I have currently I

855
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:12,760
Speaker 2: did the net worth thing, this is how much I need.

856
00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:15,080
Speaker 2: How it's like I'm not going to be able to

857
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 2: bridge that gap. And what I'm here to say is

858
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:21,719
Speaker 2: that it's not completely up to you in order to

859
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:24,160
Speaker 2: set us. It's not savings right, like we're talking about

860
00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:26,919
Speaker 2: investing here. So it's not how much and how hard

861
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 2: it is that you can work in order to bridge

862
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:31,480
Speaker 2: that gap. It also comes down to how hard your

863
00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:34,360
Speaker 2: money is going to work. When it comes to bridging

864
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:36,080
Speaker 2: that gap and making up the difference.

865
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:37,640
Speaker 1: The amount of money you're going to have in retirement

866
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:39,840
Speaker 1: is going to be far in excess of what you

867
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:42,879
Speaker 1: contributed because of compounding returns, right, and so let's talk

868
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:46,560
Speaker 1: about that. One of the most practical ways to get

869
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:50,160
Speaker 1: to the point where you have enough in retirement is

870
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:54,200
Speaker 1: to stick money into those tax advantage retirement accounts. And

871
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:59,240
Speaker 1: most millionaires, Matt, they actually achieve that millionaire status purely

872
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:02,760
Speaker 1: directly by investing in retirement accounts through work. It's crazy,

873
00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:05,879
Speaker 1: but it's true. A lot of people assume that it's

874
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:10,200
Speaker 1: through an inheritance or through having some big time job,

875
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:12,400
Speaker 1: but no, that's not the case. There are so many

876
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 1: retirement account millionaires that make up a big bulk of

877
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:19,520
Speaker 1: the millionaire class. They got there over the decades. And

878
00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:22,320
Speaker 1: so if you're contributing something like two three four percent

879
00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:26,200
Speaker 1: of your income into a retirement account, it's probably not

880
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:28,840
Speaker 1: going to be enough to propel you towards millionaire status

881
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:32,000
Speaker 1: unless your salary is ridiculously high, in which case, true,

882
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:34,160
Speaker 1: you probably are going to need more money because you're

883
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:36,160
Speaker 1: spending most of that. But if you can sock away

884
00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:39,640
Speaker 1: fifteen plus percent of your pay, plus snagging a company

885
00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:41,920
Speaker 1: match at the same time, that will make it quite

886
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:44,319
Speaker 1: likely that over the years, in the decades, you're going

887
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:46,359
Speaker 1: to easily achieve that mantle. You're going to be able

888
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:50,880
Speaker 1: to have that status of retirement account millionaire. And so

889
00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:54,200
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty three, workers can contribute a maximum of

890
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:57,160
Speaker 1: twenty two five hundred dollars per year to tax deferred

891
00:38:57,160 --> 00:38:58,560
Speaker 1: plans like a four H one K or a four

892
00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:01,799
Speaker 1: H three B, which would two if you did this

893
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:05,319
Speaker 1: over thirty years of your working career, six hundred and

894
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:08,480
Speaker 1: seventy five thousand dollars of total contributions. But if you

895
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:11,680
Speaker 1: do quick math, assuming a seven percent annual return, which

896
00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:14,799
Speaker 1: is pretty online, historically, the contributions would grow to be

897
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:17,839
Speaker 1: worth over two million dollars over those decades. So we're

898
00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 1: talking about saving up basically less than a third of

899
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:22,879
Speaker 1: what you would have over time, which is pretty cool.

900
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:25,919
Speaker 1: So granted, twenty two to five is a lot to

901
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:28,959
Speaker 1: be able to set aside to invest in a single year,

902
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:31,440
Speaker 1: and especially trying to do that every single year over

903
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 1: thirty years not necessarily easy, but it just goes to

904
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:35,480
Speaker 1: show you even if you did, if you did half

905
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:38,000
Speaker 1: of that, you would be over a million dollars in

906
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:40,960
Speaker 1: those decades. So just important to note that this is

907
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:43,440
Speaker 1: one of the easiest best ways to get there slowly

908
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:46,800
Speaker 1: but surely by making those contributions with every paycheck.

909
00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 2: When it comes to like a way to illustrate compounding

910
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:52,640
Speaker 2: growth is imagine a pond and it's got a lily

911
00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:54,560
Speaker 2: pad there on the pond, and at the end of

912
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:56,440
Speaker 2: the month, right, so say you're starting out in day one,

913
00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:59,160
Speaker 2: say by day thirty one, the pond is going to

914
00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:02,439
Speaker 2: be completely covered in lily pads. This is a lily

915
00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:04,880
Speaker 2: pad that likes to multiply by one hundred percent. It

916
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:08,560
Speaker 2: doubles every single day. And if you were to ask somebody, okay, hey,

917
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:11,759
Speaker 2: when is that pond going to be halfway covered in

918
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:12,759
Speaker 2: lily pads, a lot.

919
00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:14,680
Speaker 1: Of people would say day sixteen or seventeen.

920
00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:17,719
Speaker 2: The way our minds work, we think linearly and we think,

921
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:20,000
Speaker 2: oh yeah, about halfway through the month, when in fact,

922
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:21,640
Speaker 2: if you think about it for maybe a second, longer

923
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:24,279
Speaker 2: you realize, oh no, it's literally day thirty, it's the

924
00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:26,759
Speaker 2: day before the last day of the month that the

925
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:29,560
Speaker 2: lily pads only cover half of the pond. And so

926
00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:32,799
Speaker 2: that is the power of compounding. Granted, you're not like

927
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:35,879
Speaker 2: you're not going to see one hundred percent returns within

928
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:38,400
Speaker 2: your portfolio. But the idea here is just to illustrate

929
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:41,640
Speaker 2: the power of compounding. Angel you were just talking about

930
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 2: how you would sock away six hundred and seventy five

931
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:47,880
Speaker 2: thousand dollars in total contributions if you have a workplace

932
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:51,040
Speaker 2: retirement account, and how that's much less than the two

933
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:53,839
Speaker 2: million total that you would have at the end of

934
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:56,239
Speaker 2: your working career. But if you don't have access to

935
00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:59,120
Speaker 2: a natural workplace retirement account, you can still become a

936
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:03,600
Speaker 2: millionaire only simply maxing out a roth IRA. And so

937
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:06,120
Speaker 2: instead of socking away just over twenty two thousand dollars

938
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 2: a year, you've only got to invest sixty five hundred

939
00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:12,759
Speaker 2: and you do that for roughly thirty seven years, and

940
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 2: it's very very likely that you're gonna have seven figures

941
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:18,120
Speaker 2: on hand, and so keep that in mind as well.

942
00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:19,960
Speaker 2: You don't have to have a four to one k

943
00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:23,520
Speaker 2: with a sweet match in order to hit that millionaire status.

944
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:27,480
Speaker 2: And another recommendation for folks, turn on automatic increases for

945
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:31,040
Speaker 2: your contributions the amount that you are putting towards retirement

946
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:34,040
Speaker 2: if you do have a workplace retirement account. And this

947
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:36,040
Speaker 2: is just a simple way that you are going to

948
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:37,799
Speaker 2: be able to set it and forget it. You just

949
00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:41,560
Speaker 2: make that quote unquote hard decision just once, and your

950
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:45,399
Speaker 2: contributions are gonna increase maybe one or two percent each year. Man,

951
00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:48,640
Speaker 2: Like when Warren Buffett he was asked about why more

952
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:51,320
Speaker 2: people don't copy his approach when it comes to investing,

953
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 2: he said that it's because nobody wants to get rich slowly.

954
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:58,280
Speaker 2: And man, he is totally right, because like the sexy,

955
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:02,080
Speaker 2: the unproven route, it holds appeal to so many folks,

956
00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:04,359
Speaker 2: but nobody wants to map out a game plan for

957
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:07,120
Speaker 2: the next thirty years. But it is going to be

958
00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:10,200
Speaker 2: the most surefire away to actually become a millionaire.

959
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:14,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of people say they envy Warren Buffett

960
00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 1: or they look at him with admiration, but most people

961
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:18,799
Speaker 1: don't want to follow that path. That's why that's the

962
00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:21,800
Speaker 1: allure of crypto, right, That's the allure of NFTs or

963
00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:23,600
Speaker 1: single stocks it is to be able to go to

964
00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:27,160
Speaker 1: the moon really quickly, but most people end up getting

965
00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:29,800
Speaker 1: burned and it only prolongs their ability to reach financial

966
00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:33,200
Speaker 1: independence to meaningfully build wealth through their future, and getting

967
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:36,400
Speaker 1: rich slowly is the surefire way to do it, but

968
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:38,279
Speaker 1: you're right, it takes more time than most people want

969
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:40,239
Speaker 1: to give. And this is an instance, Matt, when it

970
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:42,759
Speaker 1: really pays to keep things incredibly boring by investing in

971
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:46,640
Speaker 1: low cost index funds, which, yeah, investing doesn't need to

972
00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:48,799
Speaker 1: be sexy and shouldn't be sexy if you want to

973
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:51,880
Speaker 1: become a millionaire, if you want that super fun, investing

974
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:55,480
Speaker 1: the lights, the bells and the whistles, you're less likely

975
00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:57,960
Speaker 1: to get there. And instead, we want you to focus

976
00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:02,080
Speaker 1: on ways that you can afford to increase those contributions

977
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:04,279
Speaker 1: over time. How can you dial those up little by

978
00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:08,719
Speaker 1: little over time. You talked about automatically increasing contributions every year.

979
00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:10,479
Speaker 1: I think that's one good way to do it. Also,

980
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:13,319
Speaker 1: I want to make an argument for being frugal and

981
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:16,400
Speaker 1: being able to invest more of your income over the

982
00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:18,319
Speaker 1: years and decades, because it really adds up. And I

983
00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:20,080
Speaker 1: think one thing that can help us to do that.

984
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:21,800
Speaker 1: We just talked about it in a recent how to

985
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:24,839
Speaker 1: Money newsletter, was using the rule of one seventy three

986
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:27,360
Speaker 1: to your advantage so you can see how much current

987
00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:30,960
Speaker 1: recurring expenses are actually costing you. The truth is, we

988
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:34,640
Speaker 1: all have small leaks in our financial lives, and a

989
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:36,640
Speaker 1: lot of them are happening on a recurring basis, like

990
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:40,600
Speaker 1: subscriptions that we sometimes even forget about. But plugging a

991
00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:43,160
Speaker 1: bunch of small leaks, it doesn't feel like it's going

992
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:44,759
Speaker 1: to have a massive impact over just the course of

993
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:46,960
Speaker 1: a single month. But the rule of one seventy three

994
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:50,239
Speaker 1: helps us understand just how much those recurring trips are

995
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:54,120
Speaker 1: costing us over the course of a decade. So because

996
00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:57,200
Speaker 1: that helps us see not just how much is leaving

997
00:43:57,239 --> 00:44:00,279
Speaker 1: our account, but that amount plus the market return were

998
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:02,680
Speaker 1: missing out on. So how do you use this rule?

999
00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:05,840
Speaker 1: Will just multiply that monthly expense by one hundred and

1000
00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:08,040
Speaker 1: seventy three, and you'll see the amount of money you

1001
00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:10,200
Speaker 1: would have had over the course of a decade had

1002
00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:12,840
Speaker 1: you rained in that expense and invested it instead. So

1003
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:15,520
Speaker 1: let's say you are spending too much eating out, which

1004
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:18,080
Speaker 1: is a problem for most Americans, let's say you spend

1005
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:20,120
Speaker 1: one hundred dollars less on eating out. You're able to

1006
00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:23,399
Speaker 1: cut that budget back. That's seventeen three hundred dollars more

1007
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:26,640
Speaker 1: in your retirement account after just ten years, which just

1008
00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:29,719
Speaker 1: helps put a small leak in perspective as to how

1009
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:31,960
Speaker 1: much you could actually grow that money over time if

1010
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:34,000
Speaker 1: you were to do something better with it instead of

1011
00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:36,480
Speaker 1: using it on uber eats and all that stuff.

1012
00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:38,200
Speaker 2: That's true. And by the way, you said cut back

1013
00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:40,920
Speaker 2: one hundred dollars, you didn't say just to eliminate it completely.

1014
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:43,480
Speaker 2: You could still go out to a restaurant here and there.

1015
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:46,320
Speaker 2: But the ability just to rain in some of your expenses.

1016
00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:49,240
Speaker 2: The rule of when seventy three helps put that in perspective.

1017
00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:51,359
Speaker 1: Well, like we talked recently on a Friday flight about

1018
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:53,520
Speaker 1: how Americans are spending more eating out than they are

1019
00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:55,800
Speaker 1: on groceries, and if you would just flip that equation

1020
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:58,040
Speaker 1: a little bit, you can easily find one hundred bucks.

1021
00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:00,279
Speaker 2: That's right. Yeah, And so these different calculations like these

1022
00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:02,600
Speaker 2: are just simple rules of thumb that it shouldn't be

1023
00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:05,080
Speaker 2: the final say as to how much you're going to

1024
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:07,160
Speaker 2: have after ten years or how much you need to

1025
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:10,239
Speaker 2: have set aside for retirement, but they should help you

1026
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:13,080
Speaker 2: to have a decent understanding of how much you'll need

1027
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:15,080
Speaker 2: to set aside. But the bottom line is that there

1028
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:17,840
Speaker 2: are so many other considerations, like whether you're going to

1029
00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:21,160
Speaker 2: have other sources of income beyond what you've invested in

1030
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:24,360
Speaker 2: retirement accounts. You need to consider how much you're going

1031
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:27,200
Speaker 2: to be receiving in Social Security payments that are coming in.

1032
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:29,839
Speaker 2: Do you have some rental property, do you have some

1033
00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:32,359
Speaker 2: pension income. Maybe you're going to continue to work part time,

1034
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:34,880
Speaker 2: like we talked about earlier, as you might be considering

1035
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:38,080
Speaker 2: some different ways to transition from that full time, high

1036
00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:41,319
Speaker 2: paying job to something that maybe doesn't pay quite as much.

1037
00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:43,440
Speaker 2: So the more flexible you can be, the more options

1038
00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:45,160
Speaker 2: you'll have. And you certainly want to make sure that

1039
00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:47,440
Speaker 2: you take into account some of the additional sources of

1040
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:49,719
Speaker 2: income that you're going to have in addition to how

1041
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:51,400
Speaker 2: much you've stalked away for retirement.

1042
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:53,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned social Security. That's one of

1043
00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:55,560
Speaker 1: those things too that you have. If you're more flexible,

1044
00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:57,680
Speaker 1: if you can delay, you know, if it makes sense

1045
00:45:57,680 --> 00:45:59,640
Speaker 1: for you to delay, and then if you can delay

1046
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 1: taking social Security until later sixties or you hit seventy,

1047
00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:05,719
Speaker 1: which almost nobody does. But if you do that, you

1048
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:09,000
Speaker 1: can get a guaranteed eight percent return every single year

1049
00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:10,759
Speaker 1: you wait to take it, and that can make a

1050
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:13,480
Speaker 1: massive difference in the amounts you're able to collect in

1051
00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:15,920
Speaker 1: that check, meaning you have to invest last for your

1052
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:18,719
Speaker 1: future too, because social Security is carrying more of the burden.

1053
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:21,239
Speaker 1: It's meaning more of your monthly expense. And a lot

1054
00:46:21,239 --> 00:46:24,279
Speaker 1: of people, I think, especially younger folks, they're down on

1055
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:26,840
Speaker 1: the role that social Security is going to play in

1056
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:30,200
Speaker 1: their retirement. And we certainly don't want that to be

1057
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:32,080
Speaker 1: your main source of income when you stop working. We

1058
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:36,320
Speaker 1: want you to be proactively taking care of your retirement

1059
00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:40,160
Speaker 1: future now as you invest for the long haul. But

1060
00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:42,239
Speaker 1: for a lot of retirees, Matt, it is it is

1061
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:44,319
Speaker 1: the main source of income. And so even with the

1062
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:48,080
Speaker 1: awkward spot that social security is in from a political perspective,

1063
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:50,600
Speaker 1: you and I we've talked about this, we still expect

1064
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:52,839
Speaker 1: that at minimum, you're going to get paid seventy five

1065
00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:56,160
Speaker 1: percent of the amount that the Social Security Administration says

1066
00:46:56,200 --> 00:46:58,359
Speaker 1: you're due. We need to make changes to shore social

1067
00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:01,200
Speaker 1: Security up for years and decades to come, and there

1068
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:03,200
Speaker 1: doesn't seem to be the political will to actually make

1069
00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:07,000
Speaker 1: that happen. But for those even for gen z ers

1070
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:09,880
Speaker 1: out there thinking well, I'm not counting on social security,

1071
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:12,160
Speaker 1: I mean, I think you need to invest and save

1072
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:13,719
Speaker 1: for your own future, and you don't want to count

1073
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:17,040
Speaker 1: on it exclusively, of course, but to assume that there's

1074
00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:19,880
Speaker 1: not going to be any social security would be highly unlikely.

1075
00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:23,600
Speaker 1: There would be some Yeah, some heads will roll before

1076
00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:26,000
Speaker 1: entitlements are. There are gonna be a lot of politicians

1077
00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:27,080
Speaker 1: that office if that's the case.

1078
00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:29,399
Speaker 2: Yeah. So let's close this with the great words of

1079
00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:31,640
Speaker 2: Thomas soul And he's got a quote where he says

1080
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:34,759
Speaker 2: that there are no solutions, there are only trade offs.

1081
00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:37,839
Speaker 2: And I think that it's no surprise that we're drawn

1082
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:41,280
Speaker 2: to different headlines that taut specific numbers that we should

1083
00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:44,239
Speaker 2: be shooting for. I think we're oftentimes looking for a

1084
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:47,120
Speaker 2: way to simplify things. Right, Like, we live in a

1085
00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:50,520
Speaker 2: very chaotic world, and when there is chaos like this,

1086
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:52,680
Speaker 2: I think we are as individuals, we try to create

1087
00:47:52,719 --> 00:47:57,200
Speaker 2: some clarity, and we try to attach our goals and

1088
00:47:57,200 --> 00:47:59,520
Speaker 2: our sites to something that feels very tangible. Yeah, saving

1089
00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:03,120
Speaker 2: for retirement. That is not an easy endeavor when it

1090
00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:06,560
Speaker 2: comes to cobbling together multiple sources, whether that's through your

1091
00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:08,319
Speaker 2: roth IRA, maybe a little bit, a little bit of

1092
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:10,200
Speaker 2: four O and K, maybe a little bit of rental income,

1093
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:13,759
Speaker 2: a little bit of social security. It is complex and

1094
00:48:13,840 --> 00:48:16,799
Speaker 2: it is difficult, and because of that, oftentimes we are

1095
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:20,000
Speaker 2: looking for just a very simple, easy answer. There are

1096
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:22,759
Speaker 2: no simple easy answers. But hopefully we have been able

1097
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:26,160
Speaker 2: to reframe how it is that you think about retirements

1098
00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:29,480
Speaker 2: and that that will give you some actionable steps to

1099
00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:32,320
Speaker 2: help inform how it is that you think about retirement,

1100
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:34,440
Speaker 2: but also actual steps that you can actually take that

1101
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:36,960
Speaker 2: will allow you to get there, to not just feel

1102
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:38,759
Speaker 2: like you're going to be prepared for the future, but

1103
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:41,160
Speaker 2: to actually get prepared and to be prepared by the

1104
00:48:41,160 --> 00:48:43,200
Speaker 2: time you reach those later years.

1105
00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:45,200
Speaker 1: Or to realize that you already are preparing well because

1106
00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:48,400
Speaker 1: you've already you're already investing in nineteen twenty percent of

1107
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:50,239
Speaker 1: your income and you're like, I'm well on my way.

1108
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:51,919
Speaker 1: It feels like I need to do more, but maybe

1109
00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:52,200
Speaker 1: I don't.

1110
00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:54,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, you happen to strike it just right. You're not

1111
00:48:54,120 --> 00:48:58,279
Speaker 2: oversaving somehow, you are living life in the here and now,

1112
00:48:58,440 --> 00:49:01,520
Speaker 2: you are finding balance while also saving four in the future.

1113
00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:03,960
Speaker 1: You've reseat Goldilocks level, which is great. But I think, yeah,

1114
00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:05,480
Speaker 1: going back to kind of what I talked about at

1115
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:08,440
Speaker 1: the very very beginning, that Sherlock Holmes approach, like, do

1116
00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:11,160
Speaker 1: some observing, ask some questions, and keep doing that over

1117
00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:13,440
Speaker 1: the years. It's not Oh, I don't think it's a

1118
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:15,880
Speaker 1: one time conversation or a one time thing. You have

1119
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:17,239
Speaker 1: to kind of keep going back to that. How are

1120
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:20,520
Speaker 1: we doing on our progress? And that's why you mentioned

1121
00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:22,640
Speaker 1: tracking your net worth? That comes into play too. But

1122
00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:25,279
Speaker 1: the more we're kind of following along and seeing how

1123
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:28,239
Speaker 1: we're doing in our progress and are we continuing to

1124
00:49:28,520 --> 00:49:30,640
Speaker 1: save and invest at the rates we hoped at the

1125
00:49:30,719 --> 00:49:33,239
Speaker 1: rates we need to in order to achieve the goal

1126
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:34,880
Speaker 1: that we have that's going to be different than everyone

1127
00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:37,640
Speaker 1: else's goal because we all have hyper unique situations. I

1128
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:40,759
Speaker 1: think that that's an important ongoing conversation. But Matt, let's

1129
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:42,840
Speaker 1: get back to the beer we had on this episode.

1130
00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:46,279
Speaker 1: This was called Double Clutch Nitro oatmeal stouts. This was

1131
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:49,400
Speaker 1: from a brewery in Wyoming called Gruner Brothers. What was

1132
00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:50,200
Speaker 1: your take on this one?

1133
00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:52,360
Speaker 2: Well, I would say it was incredibly smooth with the

1134
00:49:52,480 --> 00:49:54,840
Speaker 2: nitro that they had in this can so any beers

1135
00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:57,520
Speaker 2: out there that are they're not fermented, they're just I guess,

1136
00:49:57,600 --> 00:50:01,080
Speaker 2: pumped with nitro. They're gonna come out really silky. If

1137
00:50:01,080 --> 00:50:03,640
Speaker 2: you're a fan of Guinness, you would be a fan

1138
00:50:03,719 --> 00:50:06,839
Speaker 2: of this beer because it's not carbonated with CO two

1139
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:11,040
Speaker 2: actual carbonation, but it's with nitro. Yeah, yeah, it does.

1140
00:50:11,560 --> 00:50:13,960
Speaker 2: I guess is it nitrogen xoxide? Is that?

1141
00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:16,239
Speaker 1: I guess? Well, the two things I wrote down were

1142
00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:19,400
Speaker 1: guinness and silky like what you mentioned both words because

1143
00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:21,839
Speaker 1: it does have bingo massive Guinness vibes with a little

1144
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:24,400
Speaker 1: more of an oatmeal vibe going through because it is

1145
00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:27,160
Speaker 1: an oatmeal stout. So but yeah, if you like Guinness,

1146
00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:28,600
Speaker 1: this is kind of one of those beers would be

1147
00:50:28,640 --> 00:50:31,799
Speaker 1: totally up your alley you would love. I personally do

1148
00:50:31,960 --> 00:50:34,279
Speaker 1: like Guinness. I typically I don't trick it very often.

1149
00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:37,080
Speaker 1: It's been a long time. Same but as and by

1150
00:50:37,080 --> 00:50:38,719
Speaker 1: the way, did you realize Guinness is actually one of

1151
00:50:38,719 --> 00:50:40,000
Speaker 1: the lower calorie beers out there.

1152
00:50:40,040 --> 00:50:41,720
Speaker 2: Surprisingly people don't think.

1153
00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:43,880
Speaker 1: So interesting because it's so it feels so heavy and bready,

1154
00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:45,680
Speaker 1: and people I think that it's heavy, Yeah, but it's not.

1155
00:50:45,719 --> 00:50:47,960
Speaker 1: It's actually locale. But yeah, I think Guinness is a

1156
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:49,440
Speaker 1: great beer, and I think this one was kind of

1157
00:50:49,440 --> 00:50:51,799
Speaker 1: in that vein just as good, probably a little bit better.

1158
00:50:51,840 --> 00:50:54,400
Speaker 2: Actually nice. Well it's called double clutch. Do you know

1159
00:50:54,520 --> 00:50:55,400
Speaker 2: what that's referring to.

1160
00:50:56,080 --> 00:50:57,480
Speaker 1: Is it like an old van or it looks like

1161
00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:00,720
Speaker 1: some sort of old truck that had two two clutches?

1162
00:51:00,760 --> 00:51:02,920
Speaker 2: So well, yeah, yeah, so I think with like I

1163
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:04,759
Speaker 2: think tractor trailers still have to do this, but you

1164
00:51:04,760 --> 00:51:07,120
Speaker 2: have to double clutch, which means you have to push

1165
00:51:07,239 --> 00:51:09,239
Speaker 2: the the clutch down in order to pull out of

1166
00:51:09,239 --> 00:51:10,919
Speaker 2: the gear, but then you have to repress it again

1167
00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:12,799
Speaker 2: in order to get it into the next year. So

1168
00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:13,800
Speaker 2: it's double clutch.

1169
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:16,799
Speaker 1: I will say, I'm miss driving a manual transmission car.

1170
00:51:17,120 --> 00:51:19,080
Speaker 1: I will do it again someday. And I hear that

1171
00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:20,040
Speaker 1: coming back into vogue.

1172
00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:22,760
Speaker 2: A little bit. Did I tell you about driving my buddies.

1173
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:25,480
Speaker 2: He's got like a it's like a seventies or maybe

1174
00:51:25,480 --> 00:51:27,759
Speaker 2: an early eighties FJ to get an f J. Oh No,

1175
00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:31,320
Speaker 2: obviously it was a manual four speed, but definitely drives

1176
00:51:31,360 --> 00:51:34,280
Speaker 2: like an old truck or like an old tractor basically,

1177
00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:36,839
Speaker 2: And I will say, I'm patting myself on the back.

1178
00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:38,440
Speaker 2: I didn't stall out once. Look at you.

1179
00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:40,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, I probably would. Saw like it's been so long,

1180
00:51:40,680 --> 00:51:41,239
Speaker 1: it's been so.

1181
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:42,960
Speaker 2: Long, so long for me as well as I was, Yeah,

1182
00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:47,160
Speaker 2: so nervous trying to parallel park an old FJ on

1183
00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:49,360
Speaker 2: a city street. Yeah, I was all sweating bullets.

1184
00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:51,279
Speaker 1: I get it. I would be too, I would be too.

1185
00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:53,600
Speaker 1: I still remember those first days driving a manual. It

1186
00:51:53,640 --> 00:51:55,840
Speaker 1: was not pretty. I stalling out on main roads and

1187
00:51:55,880 --> 00:51:57,680
Speaker 1: stuff like that, but stalling out on a hill, Yes,

1188
00:51:57,719 --> 00:51:59,680
Speaker 1: what's more terrifying than that. That's the worst. Especially when

1189
00:51:59,680 --> 00:52:01,279
Speaker 1: someone's like right up on your bumper. You're like, I'm

1190
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:04,880
Speaker 1: going to kill them. Yeah, yeah, please back up. All right,

1191
00:52:04,960 --> 00:52:07,000
Speaker 1: that's gonna do it. For this episode. You can find

1192
00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:09,960
Speaker 1: show notes links to some of the resources we mentioned

1193
00:52:10,200 --> 00:52:12,080
Speaker 1: up on our site at how toomoney dot com. Don't

1194
00:52:12,080 --> 00:52:13,920
Speaker 1: forget about the how to Money newsletter. Just go to

1195
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:15,520
Speaker 1: how to money dot com slash newsletter.

1196
00:52:15,560 --> 00:52:16,080
Speaker 2: Sign up for that.

1197
00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:18,799
Speaker 1: It's free, it's fun, it's informative, and you'll get it

1198
00:52:18,840 --> 00:52:21,719
Speaker 1: in your inbox every Tuesday morning. But Matt, that's gonna

1199
00:52:21,719 --> 00:52:23,760
Speaker 1: do it. For this episode until next time, best Friends

1200
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:25,080
Speaker 1: Out and best friends Out